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[01:58:45] <Grievre> Why do AVR chips have flash /and/ EEPROM?
[01:58:48] <Grievre> why not just flash?
[02:00:15] <Sefid_par> I should write an avr program by assembly which should get the number from deepswitch and write it to 7segment. How should I write it? and how should I learn to do?
[02:06:28] <Richard_Cavell> Grievre:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=126311
[02:10:18] <Grievre> wow the ATTinys really have 128 BYTES of RAM? D:
[02:10:27] <Grievre> that's like, comparable in size to the register file isn't it?
[02:10:56] <hackvana> Some of them have only 32 bytes, and that really is the register file
[02:11:32] <Grievre> are there processor/controller archs where there is no distinction between "register" and "ram"?
[02:11:37] <hackvana> No C for you.
[02:11:37] <hackvana> Grievre: Some AVRs have a lot more
[02:11:43] <hackvana> Yes, the AVR is one
[02:11:46] <Grievre> I know it was a common thing back in the days when processors were slower than memory
[02:11:59] <Grievre> oh really?
[02:12:12] <hackvana> CPU registers are memory mapped.
[02:12:41] <hackvana> Which is useful when you're writing code to dump state post-crash
[02:13:21] <Grievre> oh neat
[02:13:30] <Grievre> are they at fixed memory addresses or can the register locations slide around
[02:19:07] <hackvana> Fixed
[02:19:11] <Grievre> hmm
[02:20:33] <hackvana> Memory in the AVR is dual-ported, which is why most instructions take only one cycle
[02:21:16] <Richard_Cavell> You can always add external RAM if you really want more
[03:34:12] <OndraSter_> for adding external RAM I suggest using chips that can do it off the shelf
[03:34:19] <OndraSter_> aka built in external SRAM/DRAM controllers
[04:08:17] <elektrinis> hi
[04:08:30] <elektrinis> I'm using atmel studio & avrisp mkII
[04:08:43] <elektrinis> how do I burn the hex to MCU?
[04:10:09] <Tom_itx> i think it's under 'tools'
[04:10:14] <Tom_itx> programming or programmer
[04:10:22] <Tom_itx> don't have it in front of me atm
[04:10:45] <elektrinis> oh, ok
[04:10:48] <elektrinis> thanks
[04:11:06] <elektrinis> I thought there will be a dedicated button it toolbar
[04:16:22] <elektrinis> is there a way to burn hex on build?
[04:34:17] <elektrinis> also, how do I let the compiler know the clock speed of my MCU?
[04:34:26] <elektrinis> _delay functions do not work properly
[05:06:32] <karlp> elektrinis: define F_CPU, as it says in the manual:
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__delay.html
[05:33:48] <elektrinis> :) thanks
[06:08:34] <dekroning> hi
[06:08:35] <tobbor> hi dekroning.
[06:09:18] <dekroning> I just started to get back into AVR development, and I can remember that somewhile ago, there was a project, to help you bootstrap avr projects, by giving you like a "generator" command, which would create the project skeleton, I thought it was a ruby gem
[06:12:22] <elektrinis> codevision?
[06:19:31] <dekroning> it was a commandline tool afaik
[06:20:04] <dekroning> ahh I thin it was part of the crosspack
[06:20:48] <dekroning> FYI commandline name was "avr-project"
[06:24:08] <elektrinis> is this correct?
[06:24:08] <elektrinis> #define HighPort PORTC
[06:24:08] <elektrinis> #define HighPortDir (HighPort-1)
[06:24:45] <elektrinis> PORTC is 0x28
[06:25:01] <elektrinis> so I try to get a DDRC, which is 0x27
[06:26:08] <Horologium> that should work
[06:26:22] <Horologium> but why not just use DDRC instead of (HighPort - 1)??
[06:26:32] <elektrinis> I use it like this:
[06:26:33] <elektrinis> LowPortDir |= LowPortMask;
[06:26:41] <elektrinis> but I get an error:
[06:26:50] <elektrinis> Error 1 lvalue required as left operand of assignment
[06:27:22] <elektrinis> Horologium, because I'd like to reduce the configuration to minimum
[06:30:08] <dekroning> elektrinis: offtopic, which development environment do you use?
[06:30:24] <elektrinis> atmel studio
[06:44:28] <ulbed> hi, i have a question regarding
http://www.freertos.org/implementation/a00016.html
[06:45:04] <ulbed> why is cli not on line (1) there?
[07:00:23] <r00t|home> some optimization related to instruction execution/pipelining iirc... the cli even protects the command before itself
[07:04:32] <r00t|home> can't find where i read the explanation
[07:53:12] <OndraSter> huh, how do people run ethernet on mega328
[07:53:16] <OndraSter> when the packets are upto 1.5kB?
[07:53:21] <OndraSter> and mega328 has 2kB of RAM ?!
[07:53:45] <OndraSter> if you need to read two packets you are out of RAM!
[07:59:03] <tkoskine> EthernetShield has something like 8k RAM on its own.
[08:02:14] <OndraSter> sure it has got plenty of RAM
[08:02:42] <OndraSter> 24kB on the enc424 I will be using
[08:02:51] <OndraSter> but you can not simply work with the data :(
[08:03:19] <hackvana> "One does not simply work with the data"
[08:03:50] <OndraSter> :D
[08:04:12] <OndraSter> I wanted to be smart and bring it to the chip via DMA
[08:04:23] <OndraSter> but then I realized that even the smallest chips with only 4kB RAM will have to be able to work with it
[08:04:48] <OndraSter> well it is not like on netduino plus where ethernet IwIP stack takes like.. 30? kB of RAM
[08:05:58] <hackvana> Lt_Lemming has experience in this area.
[08:08:06] <Lt_Lemming> err, doesn't the ENC not have a TCP/Ip stack onboard though?
[08:08:14] <OndraSter> no
[08:08:18] <OndraSter> that is wiznet
[08:08:32] <Lt_Lemming> wiznet has onboard TCP/IP stack
[08:08:40] <Lt_Lemming> hence why it works so well with atmega328
[08:08:56] <OndraSter> well people use mega328 with enc28j60
[08:09:00] <OndraSter> similar to 424 but only 10Mbit
[08:09:40] <Lt_Lemming> yeah, the library is hooge though iirc
[08:10:08] <Richard_Cavell> Well what you want to do is to do as much as possible in hardware
[08:10:27] <OndraSter> Lt_Lemming, yeah
[08:10:29] <Lt_Lemming> Richard_Cavell, yes, that is the point of the conversation
[08:10:32] <Lt_Lemming> welcome to 10 minutes ago
[08:10:42] <OndraSter> haha
[08:10:49] <Richard_Cavell> well I'm just stating the bleeding obvious
[08:10:50] <OndraSter> that's why I will be (want to) use DMA for all the bigger transfers :P
[08:11:09] <Lt_Lemming> yes, you are stating, what really didn't need to be stated
[08:11:38] <OndraSter> Richard_Cavell, I was driving 3072 LEDs with 16 shades of grey using single mega128a
[08:11:42] <OndraSter> and few dumb chips :P
[08:11:48] <OndraSter> (shift registers)
[08:12:29] <Lt_Lemming> from what I have read OndraSter, using the enc chips will add 10KB+ to your code
[08:12:58] <Lt_Lemming> which considering our ethernet code is 20KB already with a Wiznet w5200
[08:13:16] <OndraSter> eh
[08:13:22] <OndraSter> IwIP stack is huge, I know
[08:13:25] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSter: cool!
[08:13:25] <OndraSter> or uIP
[08:13:29] <OndraSter> or w/e is used on megas
[08:13:36] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSter: How were you multiplexing the LEDs?
[08:13:47] <Lt_Lemming> seriously...
[08:13:56] <Lt_Lemming> wtf do you think the shift register is doing?
[08:14:02] <OndraSter> :P
[08:14:05] <OndraSter> 24+1 shift registers
[08:14:14] <OndraSter> 24 with current regulators, 1 dumb
[08:14:14] <Richard_Cavell> Oh I didn't see the (shift registers)
[08:14:28] <OndraSter> 24 so I could drive 2 lines at once
[08:14:33] <Richard_Cavell> Well I'm driving 3 LEDs from a mega328p in my project
[08:14:35] <OndraSter> and the 1 dumb which fed decoders which fed MOSFETs
[08:15:08] <Richard_Cavell> In fact, one of those LEDs is in parallel with a buzzer
[08:15:18] <Richard_Cavell> So you get the LED lighting up *and* a piercing shriek
[08:16:26] <hackvana> I'm impressed.
[08:16:49] <OndraSter> I should build my reflow oven already damnit
[08:16:55] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, same
[08:17:01] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2uLau
[08:17:05] <OndraSter> I have been working on the board for ages :D
[08:17:05] <Lt_Lemming> considering the stencil I just got from hackvana
[08:17:09] <OndraSter> heh
[08:17:53] <OndraSter> this will be powering either some SSR or triac
[08:17:59] <OndraSter> I already built the triac board like.. half a year ago
[08:18:07] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter
http://i.imgur.com/WuUO4.jpg
[08:18:21] <OndraSter> ah isn't that the LED thing?
[08:18:25] * Lt_Lemming nods
[08:18:34] <Richard_Cavell> What the hell is that?
[08:18:34] <OndraSter> with Lemming on the silkscreen?
[08:18:45] <OndraSter> I played Lemmings in dosbox or something like... 3 months ago :D
[08:18:45] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/IAKe6.jpg <--- box of LED's
[08:18:52] <OndraSter> heh
[08:18:53] <OndraSter> e
[08:19:05] <Lt_Lemming> Richard_Cavell, solder paste stencil
[08:19:12] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[08:19:17] <Lt_Lemming> used for making easily reflowable boards
[08:20:35] <OndraSter> Richard_Cavell,
http://sdrv.ms/OWI5Wj
[08:20:41] <OndraSter> this be my LED!
[08:20:43] <hackvana> Hey I recognise that!
[08:21:03] <Richard_Cavell> cool man
[08:21:27] <Richard_Cavell> is there enough power in the m128 to do complex patterns?
[08:21:34] <hackvana> Lt_Lemming: How's the edges of that stencil?
[08:21:39] <Lt_Lemming> good
[08:21:40] <OndraSter> this is all loaded from a computer
[08:21:51] <Lt_Lemming> couple of little nicks, but nothing major
[08:21:53] <OndraSter> shoved via FT232RL to the mega
[08:22:07] <OndraSter> I think that the refreshing does something around 38% CPU load or thereabouts
[08:22:08] <OndraSter> IIR
[08:22:09] <OndraSter> C
[08:22:19] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSter: oh okay, so the computer does the rendering and just pushes it through the m128
[08:22:23] <Lt_Lemming> yeah, mines using a 328p, driving 3 24 channel LED drivers OndraSter
[08:22:41] <OndraSter> Lt_Lemming, well I needed a lot of RAM to store all the images for the shades of grey :)
[08:22:48] <OndraSter> so I used external memory interface
[08:23:02] <OndraSter> I should have used xmega - with DMA it would be pretty much 0% CPU load :( :D
[08:23:18] <OndraSter> it also supports multiple framebuffers so you can be uploading one and showing the other one
[08:23:25] <OndraSter> I even started writing pong for it!
[08:23:41] <OndraSter> but never finished
[08:23:48] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, these chips I am using are basically MASSIVE shift registers
[08:23:54] <OndraSter> :)
[08:23:56] <Lt_Lemming> but each value is a PWM level
[08:23:58] <OndraSter> do they have PWM capability?
[08:24:00] <OndraSter> oh
[08:24:02] <OndraSter> mine did not
[08:24:08] <OndraSter> I have to do it all by hand
[08:24:21] <Lt_Lemming> 24 channels, 12 bit per channel, upto 30MHz refresh rate!
[08:24:28] <OndraSter> the source just for refreshing is over 1k lines or so
[08:24:30] <OndraSter> in asm written
[08:24:45] <Lt_Lemming> also that skydrive link is not working
[08:25:12] <Lt_Lemming> sifn't use something decent like, i dunno, imgur?
[08:26:07] <OndraSter> the skydrive link is working :P
[08:26:33] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2uLj6
[08:26:36] <Lt_Lemming> yeah, cept it takes for fucking EVER to load
[08:26:42] <OndraSter> it works fine for me :P
[08:55:28] <hackvana> Powered by Windows.
[08:55:40] <hackvana> Lt_Lemming: I cut that stencil out of a larger sheet, in a hurry.
[08:55:46] <Lt_Lemming> lol
[08:55:51] <hackvana> Next time I know I can make the breakout tabs a lot thinner
[08:55:52] <Lt_Lemming> its all good
[08:55:59] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[09:00:19] <OndraSter> so it seems that I will have to rob the bank
[09:00:26] <Lt_Lemming> ...?
[09:00:35] <OndraSter> my next order from mouser is about 230 eur
[09:00:37] <OndraSter> + 20% VAT
[09:01:28] <OndraSter> my money!! :(
[09:02:11] * Lt_Lemming hugs Australia's $1000 "personal" import limit
[09:02:19] <OndraSter> haha
[09:02:31] <OndraSter> wait, it is more than 20%
[09:02:35] <OndraSter> it is 20% VAT + 5% tax
[09:02:38] <OndraSter> fuckers
[09:02:43] <Lt_Lemming> sucker :-P
[09:02:47] <OndraSter> at least I will get free shipping!
[09:04:15] <OndraSter> wow, UK has got 20 % VAT too
[09:04:32] <OndraSter> you know what is sad?
[09:04:38] <OndraSter> that since next year the VAT will be 21%
[09:04:44] <OndraSter> and the lower one for food etc 15%
[09:04:49] <OndraSter> people will stop buying even more!
[09:05:01] <Lt_Lemming> 10% GST here
[09:05:05] <xjd> wehey! my new fluke arrived
[09:05:09] <Lt_Lemming> and most basic foods are GST free
[09:05:09] <OndraSter> yay xjd
[09:05:15] <Lt_Lemming> wootles
[09:05:24] <OndraSter> the only thing free here is being in prison
[09:05:26] <OndraSter> YOU don't pay anyhting
[09:05:31] <OndraSter> I should rob the bank
[09:05:42] <OndraSter> a) if I do not get caught, I will have a lot of monies!
[09:05:47] <OndraSter> b) if I get caught, I will be in prison for free
[09:05:55] <OndraSter> I will get access to the internet, warm food, everything
[09:05:56] <Lt_Lemming> rob the bank, hide it well, own up to the crime
[09:05:59] <Lt_Lemming> get out and be rich
[09:06:02] <OndraSter> lol
[09:06:06] <xjd> this thing is a lot heavier than I thought
[09:06:26] <xjd> its almost like a bench meter :p
[09:06:33] <Lt_Lemming> what model?
[09:06:35] <Lt_Lemming> 87?
[09:06:46] <xjd> yep.. 87V
[09:07:38] * Lt_Lemming wants a 187
[09:07:45] <Lt_Lemming> fast min/max FTW!
[09:09:09] <xjd> heard about oscilloscopes Lt_Lemming ? :p
[09:09:39] <Lt_Lemming> fast min/max is a logging function, not instantaneous
[09:09:52] <Lt_Lemming> great for monitoring voltages on a supply etc for long periods
[09:10:06] <xjd> what do you mean by fast then?
[09:10:33] <Lt_Lemming> it measures the voltage at 1Ksps, then keeps a track of the min/max and average
[09:10:39] <Lt_Lemming> and beeps if one of them changes
[09:10:49] <xjd> ah
[09:10:59] <xjd> now I understand you
[09:11:56] <xjd> I'm used to using cheap chinese crap.. the "Getting Started Manual" to this one is almost bigger than last chinese meter I broke
[09:12:02] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[09:15:23] <Lt_Lemming> Fast min/max is just an awesome function, basically means you can use it as a datalogger
[09:15:40] <Lt_Lemming> and then you add the optically isolated USB data cable, and you can! :-P
[09:37:20] <megal0maniac> That's strange. What does tracking say?
[09:37:50] <RikusW> released to postal net in destination country
[09:38:15] <r00t|home> confiscated by customs, will never arrive
[09:38:42] <RikusW> hope not
[09:38:49] <RikusW> megal0maniac: how long did yours take ?
[09:38:59] <megal0maniac> 13 days total...
[09:39:53] <megal0maniac> Assuming the nano is lost forever :P
[09:45:27] <megal0maniac> Thought the 87-V looked cool, but then I saw the price...
[09:45:46] <Lt_Lemming> eep
[09:45:56] <Lt_Lemming> plasying with butane at my desk is not always a wise idea
[09:46:02] <Lt_Lemming> nearly set a few things on fire
[09:46:16] * Lt_Lemming puts his pyromaniacal urges back in the locked box
[09:48:29] <xjd> megal0maniac: quality isnt free ;)
[09:48:47] <megal0maniac> I know this :)
[09:49:02] <megal0maniac> Lt_Lemming: I disagree
[09:49:24] <OndraSter> the word "quality" is free
[09:49:54] <OndraSter> damn damn damn, next mouser order = 228 eur + 20% VAT + 5% tax since it is electronics
[09:49:59] <OndraSter> BLOODY TAXES
[09:50:08] <Lt_Lemming> megal0maniac, I'd rather not burn my house down just now
[09:50:12] <Lt_Lemming> kinda ttached to it
[09:50:27] <OndraSter> some people burn their houses after they find some spider inside.
[09:50:34] <Lt_Lemming> attached even
[09:50:39] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, done that before
[09:50:53] <Lt_Lemming> there is a mark on the carpet in one of the other rooms from me toasting a spider
[09:51:00] <OndraSter> LOL
[09:51:10] <OndraSter> the bigger the spider is the longer shovel I need
[09:53:09] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, huntsman spiders here are known to grow upto 20cm across
[09:53:17] <OndraSter> holy shit
[09:53:22] <OndraSter> I AM NOT GOING TO THE AUSSIELAND
[09:53:24] <OndraSter> never.
[09:53:29] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[09:53:33] <OndraSter> 10 parts for 24.1 eur or 25 parts for 49 eur...
[09:53:35] <OndraSter> + VAT
[09:53:51] <Lt_Lemming> even Koala's have been known to fatally injure people :-P
[09:53:55] <Lt_Lemming> they have NASTY claws
[09:54:01] <OndraSter> :D
[09:54:48] <Lt_Lemming> "It is generally a silent, nocturnal[20][21] animal, but males have a very loud advertising call that can be heard from almost a kilometre away during the breeding season."
[09:56:02] <megal0maniac> I can handle Fluke 115
[09:56:59] <megal0maniac> And I quite like Australia :)
[09:57:14] <Lt_Lemming> yeah, I'm pretty fond of it atm
[09:57:20] <megal0maniac> 2 weeks and not a single unfortunate encounter
[09:57:28] <Lt_Lemming> we're kicking the rest of the worlds ass economically atm :-P
[09:57:30] <megal0maniac> Lt_Lemming: Evident by your attachment to house :)
[09:57:31] <OndraSter> I would like Australia if only there was not so much insects
[09:57:45] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: I don't think it's as bad as you think
[09:57:55] <megal0maniac> What is your opinion on South Africa
[09:57:55] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, africa has more insects than Australia afaik
[09:58:15] <Lt_Lemming> pretty sure asia/europe does too
[09:58:24] <OndraSter> I havenť checked out south africa
[09:58:26] <OndraSter> haven't*
[09:58:31] <Lt_Lemming> we have all the crazy shit though
[09:58:38] <Lt_Lemming> like the lord howe island stick insect
[09:58:39] <OndraSter> yes, the ausieland has got all the nasty shit
[09:58:44] <OndraSter> maybe new zealand
[09:58:48] <OndraSter> would be the answer.
[09:59:05] <Lt_Lemming> new zealand has parrots that eat windscreen wipers for a laugh :-P
[09:59:16] <OndraSter> :D
[09:59:20] <OndraSter> a good one!
[09:59:32] <megal0maniac> We have nothing scary
[09:59:52] <megal0maniac> That I'm aware of after 20 years
[10:00:02] <Lt_Lemming> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea
[10:00:44] <OndraSter> hmm I am at 180+11 eur without VAT...
[10:00:50] <OndraSter> but only 10 pieces of xmega!
[10:00:53] <OndraSter> and less caps
[10:01:12] <Lt_Lemming> sifn't use digikey?
[10:02:01] <OndraSter> well, unless I do >150eur I would pay ridiculous prices :P
[10:02:04] <OndraSter> for shipping
[10:02:12] <OndraSter> so it is either everything on mouser or everything on digikey
[10:07:12] <OndraSter_> I was saying, before Mr. Peer disconnected me:
[10:07:16] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter> well, unless I do >150eur I would pay ridiculous prices :P
[10:07:16] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter> for shipping
[10:07:16] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter> so it is either everything on mouser or everything on digikey
[10:07:16] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter> aand the first issue - digikey has no price break for xmegas @ 10 pcs
[10:07:16] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter> that rules out digikey :P
[10:11:00] <OndraSter_> hmm
[10:11:04] <OndraSter_> passives are much cheaper on digikey though
[10:12:13] <megal0maniac> How about China?
[10:13:12] <OndraSter_> for 10 or 100 pieces? barely
[10:14:05] <OndraSter_> hmm digikey *might* be cheaper in the end
[10:14:13] <OndraSter_> for what is the xmega more expensive the cheaper is the enc424
[10:14:18] <OndraSter_> + cheaper passives
[10:14:32] <OndraSter_> they don't have the same rj45, but they are compatible
[10:14:57] <Lt_Lemming> ow...
[10:15:14] <OndraSter_> same pin spacing
[10:15:16] <OndraSter_> same hole sizes
[10:15:24] <Lt_Lemming> playing with butane again... just made a plastic lid on something... well... explode
[10:15:33] <Lt_Lemming> and a chunk of it hit me on the nose
[10:15:37] <Lt_Lemming> that stung
[10:15:37] <OndraSter_> omg
[10:15:51] <OndraSter_> dude, do not ever play with MOTs :P
[10:15:52] <Lt_Lemming> that gave me a hell of a fright
[10:16:07] <OndraSter_> I have got here one MOT with cap and diode :P
[10:16:13] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter_
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-fxEZ3xgP8
[10:16:21] <OndraSter_> the microwave was working, but the plate motor burnt out
[10:16:24] <OndraSter_> and it smelled awful inside
[10:16:27] <OndraSter_> so I used it for parts :D
[10:17:22] <OndraSter_> nice
[10:17:22] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2uN7x
[10:17:25] <OndraSter_> they look the same!
[10:17:33] <OndraSter_> (left and right, I have got two monitors as everybody else)
[10:17:50] <OndraSter_> I think that the one on the left -
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A-2004-2-4-LP-N-R/AE10384-ND/2183635
[10:17:53] <OndraSter_> is used on netduino+
[10:18:02] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter_, have you watched the video yet?
[10:18:09] <OndraSter_> no
[10:18:16] <Lt_Lemming> watch it ffs!
[10:18:26] <OndraSter_> it is trying to load
[10:18:32] <Lt_Lemming> ow my nose :-(
[10:18:34] <Lt_Lemming> that hurt
[10:18:40] <OndraSter_> omg
[10:18:48] <Lt_Lemming> still got massive adrenaline spike coursing through me
[10:20:50] <Lt_Lemming> like the video? :-P
[10:20:58] <OndraSter_> hehe
[10:20:59] <OndraSter_> yep
[10:21:08] <Lt_Lemming> there are more of them on there if you look
[10:21:18] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: Heh. You finally find your ethernet jack?
[10:23:29] <OndraSter_> I did long time ago :P
[10:23:37] <OndraSter_> they have got the same pin sizes
[10:23:39] <OndraSter_> all of them
[10:23:54] <OndraSter_> but there is not the same magnetics for it on digikey!
[10:24:07] <OndraSter_> only one with different pinout
[10:24:09] <OndraSter_> damnit damnit
[10:26:15] <OndraSter_> they don't usually have center taps
[10:26:58] <OndraSter_> nvm I just did
[10:31:10] <megal0maniac> Mac hates adobe flash
[10:31:45] <Steffanx> not really
[10:31:56] <megal0maniac> Lt_Lemming: Is there a high demand for sparkler lighting?
[10:32:02] <Lt_Lemming> rofl
[10:32:05] <Steffanx> It just has a hard tune when it has to run some flahs crap
[10:32:10] <Lt_Lemming> it was just a joke video megal0maniac
[10:32:11] <Steffanx> it hates java more megal0maniac
[10:32:29] <Malinuss> so, playing around with asm-avr. Does relative jumps/calls use less time/resources then normal ones? If not - why do all examples use those to jump to labels/call subroutines? They obviously yeild the same effect as normal jumps, when use that way...
[10:32:30] <Lt_Lemming> the transformer array has been used for a lot more than that
[10:32:35] <megal0maniac> Steffanx: Every time I watch a youtube video, it takes about 20s to settle down and stop laggindg
[10:32:38] <Lt_Lemming> including making dents in the roof
[10:32:40] <megal0maniac> lagging
[10:33:10] <Lt_Lemming> bonus points for whoever figures out how I made a dent in the roof with a 10Kv 1A PSU :-P
[10:33:23] <megal0maniac> You threw it?
[10:33:26] <Lt_Lemming> nope
[10:33:30] <Steffanx> Hmm, never have that issue megal0maniac
[10:33:31] <megal0maniac> You should've
[10:33:36] <Steffanx> you neeed more ram? :P
[10:33:41] <Lt_Lemming> the roog is 8m high, the psu weighs about 5Kg
[10:33:46] <Lt_Lemming> roof even
[10:33:50] <megal0maniac> THE INCREDIBLE HULK
[10:33:52] <megal0maniac> is Lt_Lemming
[10:33:57] <Lt_Lemming> lol
[10:34:51] <Lt_Lemming> exploded a large cap, the casing of the cap hit the roof hard enough to leave a dent
[10:34:54] <Lt_Lemming> that was... scary
[10:36:35] * megal0maniac approves
[10:38:56] <Malinuss> guess noone here played around with asm-avr?
[10:38:57] <xjd> insert cap wrong direction: Check!
[10:39:04] <OndraSter_> crap, digikey has no Alps microSD connectors
[10:39:12] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, we did
[10:39:48] <Malinuss> so yeah, I had a pretty simple question, OndraSter_
[10:40:15] <OndraSter_> ask
[10:40:32] <Malinuss> already did, guess it got lost in between text. hehe
[10:40:43] <Malinuss> Does relative jumps/calls use less time/resources then normal ones? If not - why do all examples use those to jump to labels/call subroutines? They obviously yeild the same effect as normal jumps, when use that way...
[10:40:56] <OndraSter_> yes, relatives use 1 less cycle and 2 less bytes
[10:41:26] <Malinuss> okay, when will a normal jump be used then? since the relative one can be used that way anyhow?
[10:41:48] * megal0maniac looks at avr 8bit instruction set
[10:41:55] <OndraSter_> when the jump is > +- 127 instructions
[10:42:01] <OndraSter_> err, +-127 words
[10:42:56] <Malinuss> eh, still very new to asm - how much does a intruction take up? (cycles are easy to look up in the data sheet)
[10:43:03] <Malinuss> 1 word?
[10:43:07] <OndraSter_> check datasheet
[10:43:11] <OndraSter_> avr instruction set
[10:43:24] <megal0maniac> http://www.atmel.com/images/doc0856.pdf
[10:43:37] <Malinuss> Mnemonics, Operands, Description, Operation, Flags, #Clocks .
[10:43:50] <Malinuss> nowhere it says how much place it takes up
[10:44:11] <Malinuss> or maybe somewhere, but at least not in the instruction tabel
[10:45:19] <megal0maniac> Page 83
[10:45:39] <megal0maniac> Page 117
[10:46:05] <Malinuss> thanks
[10:46:50] <megal0maniac> For AVR microcontrollers with Program memory not exceeding 4K words (8K bytes) this instruction can address the entire memory from every address location. See also JMP.
[10:47:01] <Malinuss> until now I only used the instruction tabel from the chip I was using. Wasn't awere there were something handy like this!
[10:47:19] <Malinuss> with examples and everything!
[10:47:38] <megal0maniac> I don't even fully understand what I'm talking about :P I just know enough to point others in the right direction
[10:50:30] <Malinuss> well, thanks anyhow
[10:54:14] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: I'm making my 3rd xboard bootloader-er.
[10:55:10] <megal0maniac> It's a paperclip, bent in such a way that it hooks onto E7 and GND
[10:55:38] <megal0maniac> For use at work when I have access to pliers and stationery, but not a breadboard
[10:56:01] <OndraSter_> :D
[10:58:59] <megal0maniac> Is the parralax stuff worth playing with? What makes it special?
[10:59:54] <OndraSter_> what parallax?
[11:02:23] <megal0maniac> Propeller, I think
[11:02:30] <OndraSter_> oh
[11:02:31] <OndraSter_> that
[11:02:32] <OndraSter_> no idea
[11:07:02] <OndraSter_> holy crap
[11:07:09] <OndraSter_> you can get full reel of 5k resistors for $8.5 ?!
[11:09:54] <megal0maniac> Whaaat?
[11:09:58] <megal0maniac> From where?
[11:11:26] <OndraSter_> digikey
[11:11:33] <OndraSter_> get ready for big shipping prices though :P
[11:11:40] <OndraSter_> I will see if splitting it between mouser and digikey will save something
[11:11:41] <OndraSter_> it might
[11:11:52] <OndraSter_> 150€ on digikey and then like 10€ on mouser :D
[11:12:05] <OndraSter_> because digikey doesn't have compatible microSD card slots
[11:15:04] <OndraSter_> damnit, if I were to buy only the cheaper stuff from digikey, I won't reach the 150€ for free shipping again :P
[11:18:00] <OndraSter_> first world problems... :D
[11:18:23] <OndraSter_> why does the UK have got the limit only at $100?
[11:18:26] <OndraSter_> and shipping $30?
[11:34:49] <OndraSter_> damn, I am at $117.04
[11:34:52] <OndraSter_> and I need $200 :D
[11:35:05] <OndraSter_> and I am already taking 25 xmegas rather 10
[11:35:44] <OndraSter_> woot, xmega128a1u already available!
[11:35:52] <OndraSter_> and cheaper than 256a3u :D
[11:37:19] <r00t|home> order $83 of stuff for me and forward it...
[11:37:42] <OndraSter_> ;)
[11:42:18] <OndraSter_> well, 25 atxmega128a1u for $77.29
[11:42:23] <OndraSter_> not bad
[11:42:37] <OndraSter_> let alone when 25x 32a4u is $53.87 :D
[11:49:12] <megal0maniac> It's all just silicone at the end of the day
[12:49:05] <OndraSter> RikusW, what is the VAT in your country?
[12:49:13] <RikusW> 14%
[12:49:18] <OndraSter> not bad
[12:49:25] <OndraSter> that is the upper limit I would hope for in the country
[12:49:26] <RikusW> yours ?
[12:49:41] <RikusW> 0% would be super :-P
[12:49:41] <OndraSter> 20%, 21% will be on 1.1.2013
[12:49:43] <OndraSter> :P
[12:50:06] <RikusW> income tax ?
[12:50:15] <RikusW> there is a sliding scale here
[12:50:18] <OndraSter> you tax everything
[12:50:20] <OndraSter> you tax even taxes
[12:50:29] <RikusW> < ZAR35000 is tax free
[12:50:38] <RikusW> > R400k is 40%
[12:51:07] <OndraSter> nice
[12:51:15] <OndraSter> we have got 21% above 1000€ or so
[12:51:41] <RikusW> its about 20% above 35k
[12:52:01] * RikusW vote for a tax free world :)
[12:52:08] <OndraSter> Canada is not bad
[12:52:38] <RikusW> so megal0maniac_afk didn't have to pay any customs for his coco ?
[12:53:28] <OndraSter> he did not
[12:53:35] <OndraSter> you will not either since it was released through customs
[12:53:39] <OndraSter> or at least that is how it works here
[12:54:42] <RikusW> its been a few days since the last visit to town, so it might already be there
[12:54:46] <RikusW> (hopefully)
[12:55:16] * hackvana pays no tax whatsoever.
[12:55:36] <RikusW> hackvana: how do you manage that ?
[12:56:01] <OndraSter> running away
[12:56:02] <OndraSter> :P
[12:56:02] <hackvana> For tax purposes I'm no longer a resident of Australia, so my income is not taxable in Australia.
[12:56:10] <hackvana> I have a company in Hong Kong
[12:56:13] <inkjetunito> RikusW: which country has 14% VAT?
[12:56:17] <hackvana> I act on behalf of that company
[12:56:29] <hackvana> And business outside of Hong Kong is not taxed by HK
[12:56:38] <hackvana> Only if business is done in HK
[12:56:38] <RikusW> South Africa
[12:56:54] <RikusW> hackvana: clever :)
[12:57:10] <hackvana> And in China, I'm not actually doing business, because that would be in breach of my visa. Nothing in China has my name on it
[12:57:20] <hackvana> No bank accounts, no company accounts
[12:57:41] <RikusW> you're only having other people export for you ?
[12:58:03] <hackvana> My friend pays the PCB companies I use, and the wonderful people at goodluckbuy.com do my shipping for me.
[12:58:32] <r00t|home> hackvana: but that also means that officially you have no income at all, no?
[12:59:48] <hackvana> My HK company pays me dividends which just happen to match the money the company earns, minus operating costs.
[13:00:06] <hackvana> That money goes to Australia for my family
[13:04:00] <RikusW> seems SA got a population of 50million about 3.2m people pays 99% of all income taxes....
[13:04:28] <RikusW> about 15.5m get welfare...
[13:25:46] <RikusW> gtop binary time format is f.up...
[13:26:10] <RikusW> 0x3DF12D8 == 06:49:51
[13:26:33] <RikusW> 64951000
[13:26:46] <RikusW> hpmf..
[13:27:29] <specing> lol
[13:27:29] <RikusW> one byte for hours, minutes and 2 for ms would have been way better...
[13:27:40] <OndraSter> what about seconds since epoch :P
[13:28:02] <RikusW> 20101008 = 13c72
[13:28:26] <RikusW> it was supposed to be easier to parse than text...
[13:28:41] <RikusW> less mcu power required..
[13:28:55] <OndraSter> right
[13:28:56] <RikusW> now it seems like more mcu power...
[13:29:55] <RikusW> wtf were they thinking ?!
[13:30:50] <RikusW> were they thinking ? :-/
[13:34:37] <RikusW> The document is the exclusive property of GlobalTop Tech Inc. and should not be distributed, reproduced, or any other format without prior
[13:34:39] <RikusW> permission of GlobalTop Tech Inc. 本資料為宇誠科技專有之財產，非經許可，不得複製或轉換成其他形式使用。
[13:34:39] <RikusW> Specifications subject to change without prior notice. 規格如有變更不另行通知。
[13:34:50] <RikusW> seems they like their stuff confidential too...
[14:04:41] <OndraSter> I didn't believe this day could ever come
[14:04:47] <OndraSter> even farnell is cheaper than mouser
[14:04:50] <OndraSter> on many parts :P
[14:04:52] <OndraSter> mostly passives
[14:05:08] <karlp> farnell has gotten better in the last year
[14:05:12] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:05:16] <OndraSter> I remember ordering for crazy prices
[14:05:18] <OndraSter> like 7 months ago
[14:05:31] <Tom_itx> i got boxes from them once when they had a sale
[14:05:40] <Tom_itx> the only time i've ever seen em cheaper
[14:05:44] <OndraSter> heh
[14:05:53] <OndraSter> even the xmega32a4u is cheaper on farnell :P
[14:05:56] <OndraSter> noticably
[14:06:14] <OndraSter> almost half an euro!
[14:07:06] <OndraSter> hmm if I switch to germany the prices are higher?
[14:07:07] <OndraSter> wtf
[14:07:08] <OndraSter> lol
[14:07:42] * Tom_itx snickers
[14:07:50] <OndraSter> no wait I take it back
[14:08:02] <OndraSter> I wrote down the price for 25+ pcs
[14:08:59] <Tom_L> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/New_Mastercard_features_LCD_screen_includes_keyboard-article-fajb_credit_card_keyboard_nov2012-html.aspx
[14:09:16] <OndraSter> everybody will see how much money I have!
[14:09:32] <Tom_itx> may as well make em more hacker friendly
[14:17:37] <OndraSter> yay I can save like $60 if I order partially from mouser and partially from farnell!
[14:18:01] <OndraSter> too bad I won't reach for free shipping on mouser by 25€
[14:18:09] <OndraSter> meh, $6 shipping
[14:19:22] <OndraSter> unless the free shipping is WITHOUT VAT
[14:19:25] <OndraSter> that would be epic pwn
[14:20:16] <Malinuss> eh I got cheated on ebay today
[14:20:26] <Malinuss> never gonna see that 1.52$ again :(
[14:20:33] <OndraSter> eh
[14:20:34] <OndraSter> how so?
[14:22:18] <Malinuss> ordered a RF transmitter/receiver kit for 1.52$ with shipping. a couple of hours later "items has been deleted from ebay"
[14:22:36] <Malinuss> the user is deleted
[14:22:38] <Malinuss> etc.
[14:28:00] <OndraSter> paypal
[14:28:05] <OndraSter> ask 'em for refund
[14:29:49] <Malinuss> gonna do that. hopefully I get it
[15:31:57] <dekroning> when I want to deal with parsing JSON data structures, what kinda of MCU should I be looking at in order to even deal with libraries for JSON parsing? already 32bit MCU's?
[15:33:41] <Malinuss> yeah the storage could be an issue, I think
[15:34:02] <Roklobsta> yeah, avr would choke go with arm or something
[15:34:18] <Roklobsta> something with more ram
[15:34:45] <dekroning> Malinuss: memory storage you mean? because I my cause I want to connect to some JSON webservices, parse the data, and display some results via LED's or LCD
[16:03:19] <dekroning> is there like a community around C libraries that are specific for the avr-gcc platform?
[16:03:41] <OndraSter> avr-libc?
[16:04:16] <specing> look around, what do you see?
[16:05:18] <dekroning> I was hoping for something like "rubygems" but then for AVR systems :-)
[16:05:37] * karlp grins
[16:05:47] * specing grins
[16:05:56] * OndraSter evilishly laughs
[16:06:04] * dekroning cries
[16:06:13] * specing chews dekroning alive
[16:06:16] -OndraSter:#avr- who is going to ragequit the world?
[16:06:29] * dekroning runs in horror
[16:06:39] <chupas> incomming kb
[16:06:53] -specing:#avr- # killall dekroning
[16:21:42] <dekroning> for example I want to connect to some website, do I need to start writing writing the TCP/IP layer and HTTP layers my self basically?
[16:22:41] <yunta> dekroning: raspi maybe?
[16:23:36] <dekroning> yunta: so that basically means, AVR is more or less not really suited for this?
[16:24:08] <yunta> arm avr or some (x)mega series?
[16:24:49] <yunta> anyways, what you do seems quite high-level, I'd say go for raspi and use ruby
[16:25:16] <yunta> s/you do/you want to do/
[16:25:17] <dekroning> yunta: right
[16:26:24] <dekroning> I was hoping to use some cheap MCU though, but I hear what your saying
[16:26:35] <karlp> cheap is relative.
[16:26:48] <yunta> you could totally do it with megas, but it's probably not worth the effort
[16:26:49] <dekroning> true
[16:26:56] <karlp> but avrs + ethernet can start to add up.
[16:27:05] <karlp> you've got to really want it
[16:27:36] <dekroning> why is that, because you have to implement TCP/IP layers as well as HTTP layers right?
[16:28:31] <karlp> pretty much.
[16:29:00] <karlp> there's tcpip on a chip, and tcpip lirbaries you can use, but you're doing it for the lols
[16:29:17] <dekroning> so when going for something like raspi, your basically using the tcp/ip stack fromt he OS?
[16:29:55] <yunta> tcp/ip and *lots* of other convenient things
[16:30:01] <dekroning> karlp: tcpip on a chip like the enc28j60, you mean? or something more complex even?
[16:31:14] <dekroning> yunta: having a full OS running sounds so heavy though
[16:31:37] <yunta> it does, but you can run ruby on it :)
[16:32:21] <yunta> if you don't need real-time, raspi is like heaven I guess
[16:32:33] <dekroning> yunta: I really love Ruby (daytime job) actually, for some reason for embedded things i'm wondering if it's perhaps too much. Waiting for Mruby, perhaps that's going to be awesome? :)
[16:32:54] <yunta> wasn't it already released?
[16:32:57] <dekroning> yunta: real-time would require again something different?
[16:33:15] <yunta> well, linux is not real-time by nature
[16:33:22] <dekroning> yunta: nah not yet :-( well... it's opensource afaik, so it's out there, but nothing for something serious i guess
[16:34:23] <Tom_itx> just go buy an arduino with ethernet
[16:34:39] <yunta> which may be more expensive than raspi :D
[16:34:42] <dekroning> Tom_itx: but that's only for incoming ethernet traffic, I want to connect outwards
[16:34:59] <Tom_itx> ur on ur on then
[16:35:02] <dekroning> or am I missing something?
[16:35:04] <karlp> dekroning: the wiznet chips have a tcpip stack onboard, enc28h60chips don't
[16:35:05] <Tom_itx> own
[16:35:24] <Tom_itx> wiznet are better than pic anyway
[16:35:41] <Tom_itx> they even sound cooler
[16:35:47] <karlp> dekroning: why would an arduino with ethernet only be for inbound?
[16:35:52] <dekroning> karlp: so would I be able to talk to these wiznet from my AVR and initiate tcp/ip connections outwards?
[16:36:06] <karlp> in/out is just whatever code you right man.
[16:36:31] <Tom_itx> he's got alot of research ahead
[16:36:35] <karlp> :)
[16:36:37] <dekroning> hahaha yeah indeed Tom_itx ;-)
[16:36:51] <Tom_itx> nullmoogle has done it
[16:37:16] <Tom_itx> but he used the arduino thing
[16:38:03] <dekroning> I thought you could only receive incoming tcp/ip connection with ethernet shield, didn't know you could also say from your AVR chip "open up tcpip connection to port 80 www.google.com"
[16:38:20] <karlp> you should read more then :)
[16:39:01] <dekroning> I definitly should :-) where to start actually? wiznet chip documentation?
[16:39:12] <karlp> depends how low you want to write yourself
[16:39:21] <karlp> wiznets are the ones in the arduino code, you can just use that
[16:39:46] <Tom_itx> shhh, let him write it all then tell him
[16:39:54] <dekroning> ideally I would like to use perhaps the enc28j60
[16:39:59] <karlp> why?
[16:39:59] <dekroning> Tom_itx: haha ;-)
[16:40:11] <Tom_itx> wiznet is better
[16:40:28] <karlp> (but it's all shit compared to linux networking stack)
[16:40:41] <dekroning> right
[16:41:19] <dekroning> and to run linux, which is the cheapest AVR chip I could use?
[16:41:35] <karlp> unless you're really after adventure, you don't bother.
[16:41:41] <Tom_itx> now you're just talking silly
[16:41:41] <karlp> you buy a board that runs linux already.
[16:41:47] <dekroning> ok
[16:41:54] <dekroning> good knowledge to know :-)
[16:42:26] <dekroning> so basically when running linux, I would not bee doing any avr-gcc, but just writing standard C (compiled with gcc or so) code right?
[16:42:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7200
[16:42:40] <karlp> dekroning: yup, user space ftw
[16:43:10] <karlp> $120?!
[16:43:21] <dekroning> damn $120 :)
[16:43:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7400
[16:43:51] <karlp> http://shop.8devices.com/carambola-bundle
[16:44:01] <yunta> dekroning: <advertisement> mer distro has some nice vm for cross-compilation for arm </advertisement>
[16:44:08] <karlp> or the afore mentioned rpi, your existing openwrt router, whatever
[16:45:23] <dekroning> karlp: rpi is indeed pretty cheap
[16:46:31] <dekroning> yunta: link?
[16:48:24] <dekroning> using those rpi's and something like linux (instead of .hex file for example) It woudl make it more easier to people to download the firmware right? thing is, I want to connect ot a webservice with some specific authentication toke embedded
[16:48:57] <yunta> dekroning:
http://merproject.org/
[16:49:12] <dekroning> so the code i'm writing for those boards would be more easily decompiled then say .hex uploaded to a AVR MCU's
[16:49:20] <dekroning> yunta: thanks
[16:49:29] <yunta> you mean "secret" token that will be unreadable for customers buying your product?
[16:49:34] <karlp> it would be equally easy.
[16:49:35] <dekroning> yes
[16:49:40] <karlp> so give up on that right now
[16:50:13] <dekroning> in a way that's good news maybe :)
[16:50:23] <yunta> I think some of us here would decompile hex faster than your ruby tool, but..
[16:50:31] <dekroning> hehe :)
[16:50:44] <yunta> latest xmegas could allow you to encrypt your firmware
[16:51:02] <yunta> which makes code slightly more difficult to get
[16:51:02] <Tom_itx> only in some countries
[16:51:07] <karlp> a few grand to chipcon and it's all over anyway.
[16:51:16] <dekroning> but there are also ways to make sure the MCU firmware can't be downloaded right?
[16:51:23] <karlp> spend your time and money on features
[16:51:37] <Tom_itx> no
[16:51:44] <karlp> you can pay a lot to make it more difficult, but you can't even truly prevent it.
[16:51:44] <Tom_itx> it's all a matter of time
[16:51:53] <karlp> so really, don't waste the time doing so
[16:52:17] <Tom_itx> i know of products that pics are put into just to fool the competetion
[16:52:20] <dekroning> karlp: but how to make sure that connection to my webservice is protected? no other way but having the end user, "configure" some username/password authentication probably then right?
[16:52:27] <OndraSter> yay, the czech reseller rocks
[16:52:30] <OndraSter> they just replied to my email
[16:52:38] <OndraSter> I sent them the email 2130 or so
[16:52:42] <OndraSter> reply received at 2319
[16:52:44] <OndraSter> IN THE NIGHT
[16:52:49] <Tom_itx> they're desparate
[16:52:52] <OndraSter> haha
[16:52:59] <karlp> dekroning: you make sure that your protocol only secures the single device, not all of them.
[16:53:25] <Tom_itx> prolly a 1 room 10 x 10 office with 20 phones in it
[16:53:29] <dekroning> karlp: right indeed, and then have the end user, fill in their credentials so I can use that to do the authentication
[16:56:50] <dekroning> karlp: you use embedded linux a lot in your projects?
[16:58:20] <OndraSter> where's the fun in using embedded linux
[16:59:48] <dekroning> OndraSter: no can do much TCP/IP on avr
[17:01:12] <OndraSter> pff
[17:02:28] <dekroning> OndraSter: that's the spirit, elaborate :_)
[17:03:28] <OndraSter> I wanted to say "you had like 2+2kB on NES and it could play awesome games" or something even worse
[17:03:32] <OndraSter> but "pff" is all I said
[17:03:38] <dekroning> hehe :-)
[17:04:51] <OndraSter> also is it just one of those "hold my beer, I will do it" moments or is ethernet MUCH simpler than USB?
[17:06:24] <yunta> usb is just *so* bad
[17:07:17] * yunta lost weekend on usb debugging, because of fcked up xmega docs
[17:07:44] <OndraSter> lol
[17:08:14] <OndraSter> I had to stop the development on my USB stack because I was in rage and took the USB connector and traces into silicon heaven :D
[17:08:23] <OndraSter> or hell?
[17:08:31] <yunta> lol
[17:08:36] <OndraSter> it was enumerating
[17:08:46] <OndraSter> then I rewrote all the descriptors to match official CDC
[17:08:50] <OndraSter> and it stopped enumerating
[17:08:55] <yunta> actually, I think I found some of your irc logs online, while debugging my crap
[17:09:04] <OndraSter> haha
[17:09:07] <OndraSter> there is a lot of stuff hidden in it
[17:09:07] <dekroning> thanks a lot guys for all the information
[17:09:12] <dekroning> good night
[17:09:14] <OndraSter> g
[17:09:14] <OndraSter> n
[17:09:39] <OndraSter> yunta, you are writing it from the bottom or using Atmel USB stack or LUFA?
[17:09:53] <OndraSter> I would use atmel's but the CDC is 9kB compiled..
[17:09:55] <OndraSter> with -Os :D
[17:10:07] <OndraSter> I need to fit 4kB preferably... 8kB in the worst case scenario
[17:10:24] <yunta> bottom :) commercial product
[17:10:45] <yunta> hm
[17:10:56] <yunta> lufa didn't compile for me right away
[17:10:57] <OndraSter> did you implement your own or using usb cdc?
[17:11:04] <OndraSter> well lufa is not officialy for xmega yet
[17:11:04] <yunta> so I kinda 'hold my beer...'
[17:11:08] <OndraSter> :P
[17:11:15] <yunta> and atmel is hairy
[17:11:26] <OndraSter> I read the datasheet few times
[17:11:30] <yunta> I hate code that is written for all possible chips, it's unreadable for me
[17:11:30] <OndraSter> the USB part of it
[17:11:33] <OndraSter> yes
[17:11:40] <OndraSter> let alone if you mix up xmega and uc3 :D
[17:11:51] <OndraSter> sure it is split into udc, udd and device parts
[17:11:56] <OndraSter> but calling it across... geez
[17:12:02] <yunta> uh
[17:13:15] <OndraSter> it is too "universal" for me
[17:13:19] <OndraSter> just as LUFA
[17:13:25] <OndraSter> plus.. I don't feel like paying license :P
[17:13:54] <yunta> isn't lufa bsd-licensed?
[17:14:09] <yunta> and atmel?
[17:14:42] <OndraSter> no idea
[17:14:49] <OndraSter> ask abcminiuser when he comes around
[17:14:55] <OndraSter> but I think you have to pay for commercial use of it
[17:14:58] <OndraSter> (no idea what bsd license is)
[17:15:03] <OndraSter> I hate licenses!
[17:15:08] <OndraSter> I just rather do my stuff.
[17:15:15] <OndraSter> than figure out what I can and can not
[17:15:17] <OndraSter> and have to do
[17:18:13] <yunta> same here
[17:18:35] <yunta> but honestly, usb on xmega is too much to write alone if you're hurry
[17:18:49] <yunta> and if you don't already know usb protocol
[17:20:28] <OndraSter> I already know enough to know that it is piece of awfulness
[17:20:34] <OndraSter> and I am not that much in a hurry
[17:20:37] <yunta> I was both :)
[17:20:40] <yunta> hurry, and clueless
[17:20:48] <OndraSter> I don't have spare $2k to get VID anyway
[17:20:58] <OndraSter> I need for now 5 PIDs...
[17:22:42] <OndraSter> anyway
[17:22:47] <OndraSter> enough raging for today
[17:22:47] <OndraSter> gn
[17:23:15] <yunta> gn
[20:08:53] <Brittany> Hey guys. I'm just curious here, if I were to send an 8 bit ASCII character through SPI or UART to my atmega 644p, what do each of the bits represent?
[20:09:07] <Horologium> data.
[20:09:13] <Horologium> 8bits of data.
[20:09:22] <Horologium> ones and zeros.
[20:09:24] <Brittany> only data?
[20:09:46] <Brittany> nothing to parity/stop bits or anything?
[20:09:53] <Horologium> now, there will be more line toggling than just the 8 bits of data.
[20:10:23] <Horologium> look at the datasheet...it describes in detail the communications protocols on those ports.
[20:10:40] <Horologium> including timing charts that tell what every line toggle is for.
[20:10:57] <Brittany> Alrighty.
[20:11:07] <Brittany> I suppose I was searching for the wrong thing in the datasheet, thanks.
[20:11:27] <Horologium> let me fire my copy up here..
[20:11:47] <Brittany> nope.
[20:11:51] <Brittany> I was searching for info on UART
[20:11:56] <Brittany> clever Brittany should've looked for USART.
[20:12:03] <Horologium> page 167
[20:12:04] <Horologium> for spi
[20:13:03] <Horologium> page 175 and 176 for USART(rs232ish)
[20:14:02] <Horologium> those datasheets are VERY detailed.
[20:14:21] <Horologium> and tell you everything you ever need to know about the chip...almost...pretty close anyhow.
[20:16:06] <Brittany> I might be reading a different datasheet to you.
[20:16:09] <Brittany> Do you have an online link?
[20:17:05] <Horologium> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8011.pdf
[20:17:48] <Brittany> so if you're sending data, you're always sending something down each of to each bit?
[20:18:09] <Horologium> ??
[20:18:30] <Brittany> hm.
[20:18:53] <Horologium> I think you are missing a noun in that sentence.
[20:19:17] <Brittany> Sorry, *shakes head* I'm just trying to figure out questions I've not got much understanding with.
[20:19:23] <Brittany> University does that to you eventually, haha. :)
[20:19:57] <Horologium> I suggest you learn to read timing charts for starters.
[20:20:32] <Brittany> The question asked of us basically relates to what is being transmitted over UART and SPI in each case, essentially, how many bits are we updating.
[20:20:37] <Horologium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_timing_diagram
[20:21:03] <Horologium> that entirely depends on how the UART is configured, in the case of the UART.
[20:21:25] <Horologium> as in, 9600-8n1, you have 8 bits of data, no parity, 1 stop bit.
[20:21:50] <Horologium> but it can be configured with or without parity, with one or multiple stop bits, 8 or 9 bits of data.
[20:21:58] <Horologium> entirely depends on your configuration.
[20:23:00] <Horologium> in SPI it is much simpler, 8 bits..no stop bits, no parity..
[20:23:00] <Brittany> hm.
[20:23:44] <Brittany> fair enough
[20:24:07] <Brittany> in the case of an ASCII character, I'd take it 1 stop bit would be necessary. no parity or anything.
[20:24:17] <Brittany> Actually, I think I know what to write here.
[20:24:17] <Tom_itx> avr is set to transmit 8 bits on spi
[20:24:35] <Tom_itx> other C's are capable of other lengths
[20:24:47] <Horologium> in the case of an ASCII character, the parity is optional and is used for error detection..
[20:24:58] <Tom_itx> if you need more, you must transmit 2 and discard what you don't use
[20:25:06] <Horologium> again, depends on if you have it on or not.
[20:25:27] <Brittany> hm
[20:25:30] <Brittany> interesting. thanks
[20:25:32] <Horologium> now, in the standard rs232 frame, I do believe the parity bit is always allowed for.
[20:25:35] <Horologium> whether it is used or not.
[20:25:57] <Brittany> hm.
[20:25:58] <Tom_itx> SPI is bidirectional as well
[20:26:09] <Tom_itx> always sending and receiving at the same time
[20:26:16] <Brittany> I'd have thought that because it's a serial interface, one would need to send something to each bit.
[20:26:16] <Tom_itx> whether it's valid data or not
[20:26:58] <Horologium> Brittany, you send either high or low signal for each bit...
[20:27:09] <Brittany> aye.
[20:27:27] <Horologium> on spi, the bit separation is determined by the SCK,,serial clock.
[20:27:45] <Horologium> in async rs232 the bit separation/length is determined by the baud rate.
[20:27:48] <Tom_itx> so Brittany, you got your clock source working finally?
[20:27:51] <Horologium> as there is no clock.
[20:27:56] <Brittany> I did, Tom. :D
[20:28:02] <Tom_itx> what was it?
[20:28:14] <Brittany> I don't. know.
[20:28:18] <Brittany> I turned it on after leaving it to rest
[20:28:21] <Brittany> tahdah. working.
[20:28:23] <Horologium> ok..off to bed.
[20:28:33] <Brittany> Good night Horologium, thank you for your help. :)
[23:13:18] <landonf> Cisco bought Jungo? Cisco is like The Blob.
[23:29:31] <Richard_Cavell> I just broke the USB adapter on my STK600 and it looks too tiny and fiddly to fix.
[23:29:32] <Richard_Cavell> :(
[23:39:28] <Essobi> booot
[23:39:30] <Essobi> booooo
[23:39:35] <Essobi> that sucks man
[23:39:47] <Essobi> No pads to tie into?
[23:39:53] <Essobi> Hmm.
