#avr | Logs for 2012-11-03

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[00:00:03] <rue_house> nov 6?
[00:00:13] <jadew> wait... are they holding elections?
[00:00:32] <hackvana> jadew: Do try to keep up.
[00:00:42] <jadew> wth... 4 years already
[00:01:14] <hackvana> Four years of the right-wing blocking anything good Obama ever wanted to do. Case in point: Health care reform.
[00:01:55] <hackvana> And then after stone-walling everything, as a matter of policy, they then have the nerve to ask what has been achieved in the past four years (sigh)
[00:02:45] <jadew> that's how it works and why I think totalitarism would work better, with the right guy
[00:02:59] <jadew> no more bullshit
[00:04:18] <jadew> the way it is right now, there's always going to be the other party which simply wants for shit to go bad for the current guy
[00:04:57] <jadew> it's probably not that bad in the US, but in here it's a freaking war
[00:06:36] <jadew> politics is the game the the scum of the society gets to play
[00:07:41] <jadew> *that the
[00:08:04] <jadew> sorry, I'm tired
[00:08:55] <jadew> I hope you guys get a good president
[01:10:09] <rue_house> as obama sits in bed shaking his head saying "no we cant"
[06:04:26] <jadew> just tried out my $11 usb ax clone
[06:04:35] <jadew> it fails to decode 1-wire properly
[06:04:55] <jadew> altho the sample rate and all that seems to be ok, since the timings look right
[06:08:37] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/usbee_ax_1wire.png
[06:12:52] <jadew> w|zzy, have you got a chance to seriously use the OLSfront? I haven't worked on it in a while since it looks like nobody else is interrested in a windows client, however I might resume work if I decide to add usbee support to it
[06:57:14] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2sNQ0
[06:57:15] <OndraSter> wtf
[06:57:18] <OndraSter> is it blind or what?
[07:09:16] <specing> OndraSter: git://git.linaro.org/people/arnd/flashbench.git
[07:09:23] <specing> Might be of interest ;)
[07:09:34] <OndraSter> what is that?
[07:13:21] <specing> I have yet to determine
[07:15:08] <jadew> OndraSter, I bet everything seems red after you use that console for a while
[07:18:23] <OndraSter> eh?
[07:18:43] <jadew> that green and blue
[07:18:45] <OndraSter> oh
[07:18:47] <OndraSter> I like that
[07:18:48] <OndraSter> :D
[07:18:52] <jadew> I figured :)
[07:19:19] <jadew> reminds me of notrton commander
[07:19:25] <OndraSter> :D
[07:19:25] <jadew> *norton
[07:25:19] * RikusW wonders if anyone created an anti norton virus yet :-P
[07:25:51] <jadew> I'm sure there are viruses that disable the av
[07:27:58] * RikusW got AppCAD -> http://www.hp.woodshot.com/
[07:28:16] <RikusW> nice for toying around with RF
[07:29:24] <specing> RikusW: just google for antivirus360
[07:29:43] <OndraSter> lol
[07:29:47] <OndraSter> or antivirus xp 2012!
[07:30:37] <jadew> RikusW, thanks for the url
[07:31:38] <RikusW> at least some people appreciates Mr Stumbleupon :-P ;)
[07:31:56] <RikusW> Steffanx: got that link ? ;)
[07:32:27] <jadew> I think most of that app is HTML inside :)
[07:32:32] <jadew> but pretty cool
[07:32:49] <RikusW> yep
[07:32:52] <Steffanx> Uh RikusW ?
[07:33:00] <RikusW> see the link above...
[07:33:09] <RikusW> nice to have tool for RF
[07:33:52] <Steffanx> Do i have to retweet it?
[07:34:14] <RikusW> YES :-D
[07:36:45] <OndraSter> I am probably C(++) n00n
[07:36:46] <OndraSter> n00b
[07:36:51] <OndraSter> but I am including somethig.h
[07:37:05] <OndraSter> which has got something like y(int x);
[07:37:12] <OndraSter> then I have got somethig.c
[07:37:24] <OndraSter> which has got int y(int x) return x+2;
[07:37:34] <OndraSter> when I include the .h
[07:37:46] <OndraSter> it says "undefined reference to y(int)" in the main .c file
[07:38:10] <RikusW> is the .h include in both .cpp files ?
[07:38:17] <OndraSter> .c, yes
[07:38:50] <RikusW> int y(int x);
[07:38:52] <OndraSter> yes
[07:38:55] <OndraSter> that way
[07:39:03] <RikusW> int y(int x) { return x+2; };
[07:39:06] <OndraSter> yes
[07:39:08] <OndraSter> that way
[07:39:29] <OndraSter> I am now trying it with C++ and classes even
[07:39:59] <RikusW> remember to compile cpp files with g++ not gcc....
[07:40:03] <OndraSter> yes
[07:40:52] <OndraSter> d:\XIDE\workdir\Tools\avr>avr-gcc test.c -o XLib.o -mmcu=atxmega32a4u -mshort-ca
[07:40:52] <OndraSter> lls -g0 -Wall -std=gnu99 -Wl,-lm -Wl,--gc-sections -Os -I "../../Libs/"
[07:40:52] <OndraSter> C:\Users\Ondra.ONDRANET\AppData\Local\Temp\ccu7H0da.o: In function `main':
[07:40:52] <OndraSter> test.c:(.text.startup+0x6): undefined reference to `y'
[07:40:52] <OndraSter> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[07:40:55] <OndraSter> but it gets included
[07:40:59] <RikusW> if its so small why not only have a single .c file ?
[07:41:08] <OndraSter> because this is this small just for the test
[07:41:12] <jadew> OndraSter, it doesn't get linked
[07:41:23] <OndraSter> why should it get linked, when it is not compiled?
[07:41:31] <OndraSter> or am I thinking that it is too easy?
[07:41:43] <jadew> it's not enough to include the header, you have to link the object generated from the source file as well
[07:41:46] <CapnKernel> RikusW: Why use g++ not gcc?
[07:41:52] <OndraSter> because c++
[07:42:00] <OndraSter> jadew, hmm
[07:42:04] <RikusW> CapnKernel: when compiling C++ stuff you need g++
[07:42:32] <RikusW> avr-gcc test.c somethig.c -o XLib.o..........
[07:42:35] <OndraSter> so you are saying that I should precompile the c(pp) files?
[07:42:44] <jadew> OndraSter, so you need to compile the source file for that thing as well
[07:42:47] <RikusW> or that
[07:43:20] <RikusW> xlib.a or xlib.so ?
[07:43:23] <jadew> what RikusW said
[07:43:39] <jadew> ah, btw, it's not practical to have libraries when dealing with AVR
[07:44:07] <RikusW> err xlib on AVR ?!... or is that something else...
[07:44:18] <jadew> I think when you compile for a different AVR you will have to re-compile the library as well
[07:44:23] * RikusW thinks of xlib on Linux...
[07:44:29] <OndraSter> jadew, that why I don't want to have it precompiled
[07:44:52] <jadew> then just add it to your project
[07:45:02] <OndraSter> I am doing this from command line manually :/
[07:45:06] <jadew> and do what RikusW said
[07:45:14] <jadew> make a makefile
[07:45:20] <RikusW> even better
[07:45:41] <RikusW> and do .c -> .o then .o -> .elf -> .hex
[07:45:55] <OndraSter> you can get hex directly from o
[07:46:08] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/avr/Makefile
[07:46:15] <jadew> avr-objcopy -j .text -j .data -O ihex main.bin main.hex
[07:46:25] <OndraSter> I have tried that already
[07:46:27] <OndraSter> and it works
[07:48:40] <OndraSter> haa
[07:48:41] <OndraSter> it works
[07:48:42] <OndraSter> thanks
[07:48:50] <jadew> nice
[07:48:54] <jadew> what did you use for avr programming so far? asm?
[07:49:03] <OndraSter> atmel studio
[07:49:06] <jadew> ah
[07:49:07] * RikusW yes mostly
[07:49:09] <OndraSter> but I am writing arduino-clone for xmega
[07:49:19] <OndraSter> and I am making app for it (duh)
[07:49:31] <OndraSter> because I would need arduino team to update avr-gcc and all the libraries with it
[07:49:36] <OndraSter> and I don't like java
[07:49:37] <OndraSter> at all.
[07:49:58] <jadew> why arduino clone?
[07:50:05] <OndraSter> because arduino has fairly large userbase
[07:50:14] <OndraSter> so I am making pinout-compatible
[07:50:18] <OndraSter> making it*
[07:50:24] <jadew> I see
[07:50:27] <OndraSter> and code as portable as possible
[07:50:36] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2sJOk
[07:50:39] <OndraSter> after 1 or 2 hours of work
[07:50:49] <OndraSter> it works both on Windows and on Linux :P
[07:50:58] <OndraSter> (it can't do anything other than load)
[07:52:22] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> and I don't like java
[07:52:24] <OndraSter> but I love .NET
[07:52:26] <Steffanx> linux .. with mono Ondra?
[07:52:28] <Steffanx> Ster
[07:52:29] <OndraSter> ye
[07:52:36] <Steffanx> Ugly :P
[07:52:43] <OndraSter> on Linux yes :D
[07:52:49] <OndraSter> still better than arduino though
[07:52:57] <jadew> ah, neat, but isn't it simpler to use an already existing IDE?
[07:53:00] <Steffanx> You should write a VS plugin :P
[07:53:04] <Steffanx> Not a custom IDE
[07:53:06] <jadew> and just add a plugin or something?
[07:53:07] <OndraSter> Steffanx, VS won't work on linux
[07:53:21] <Steffanx> Write a monodevelop plugin as well
[07:53:22] <OndraSter> jadew, a) I don't like arduino's style of look 'n feel, b) I am using C++ rather Processing
[07:53:33] <OndraSter> and I don't like working with java
[07:53:42] <jadew> I get that, I didn't mean eclipse :)
[07:53:48] * RikusW agrees
[07:53:53] <jadew> I think eclipse is garbage
[07:53:55] <OndraSter> nobody likes eclipse
[07:53:57] <OndraSter> nor netbeans
[07:54:01] <OndraSter> (nor vim!)
[07:54:07] <jadew> but there are other c++ IDEs out there
[07:54:09] <Steffanx> /nick nobody
[07:54:13] * RikusW likes vim ;)
[07:54:25] <OndraSter> jadew, look how arduino is simple :P
[07:54:32] <jadew> I never used it
[07:54:43] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2sOqC
[07:54:47] <RikusW> kdevelop ?
[07:55:01] <OndraSter> well, my app will run on mac, windows and linux without recompiling
[07:55:06] <jadew> OndraSter, yeah, seems pretty simple
[07:56:51] <jadew> OndraSter, in that case you might want to look into scintilla, it might have a wrapper for .net
[07:56:59] <CapnKernel> RikusW: g++ doesn't do what you think it does. You can compile C++ with gcc.
[07:57:08] <RikusW> CapnKernel: how ?
[07:57:13] <jadew> it will give you syntax highlighting and other cool features so you don't have to start from scratch
[07:57:22] * RikusW got linker errors using gcc that way
[07:57:25] <jadew> CapnKernel, you can't
[07:57:27] <OndraSter> I don't really need syntax highliting
[07:57:34] <CapnKernel> jadew: Care for a small wager?
[07:57:38] <CapnKernel> Make a bet?
[07:57:43] <jadew> I will
[07:57:43] <OndraSter> if I were to use syntax highlight I would be running vs2012
[07:57:52] <CapnKernel> RikusW: For example: http://dpaste.org/ZKmRt/
[07:58:20] <OndraSter> In file included from ..\..\Libs\SetPort.c:1:0:
[07:58:20] <OndraSter> ..\..\Libs\/SetPort.h:3:1: error: unknown type name 'class'
[07:58:21] <jadew> CapnKernel, I'm sure it will compile a basic program fine, however it can't deal with other stuff
[07:58:23] <CapnKernel> The GCC front-end looks at the extension, and works out what compiler to call based on the extension of the file.
[07:58:32] <OndraSter> oh
[07:58:34] <OndraSter> :P
[07:58:42] <RikusW> CapnKernel: -lstdc++ g++ probably does that
[07:58:47] <CapnKernel> YES
[07:58:50] <jadew> CapnKernel, I'm 100% sure I couldn't compile stuff with gcc, that g++ compiled fine
[07:59:00] <CapnKernel> g++ is semantic sugar for including two libraries that you would otherwise have to -l yourself.
[07:59:17] <jadew> ok, give me a second, I can't believe that just yet
[07:59:18] <CapnKernel> The compiler that gets invoked is the same, because GCC uses the file extension.
[07:59:49] <RikusW> CapnKernel: stdc++ and ??
[07:59:58] <OndraSter> btw, about Java: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/11/02/microsofts-security-team-is-killing-it-not-one-product-on-kasperskys-top-10-vulnerabilities-list/?utm_campaign=Feed:+hacker-news-feed-50+(Hacker+News+50)&utm_medium=feed&awesm=tnw.to_lLo7&utm_source=feedburner
[08:00:10] <CapnKernel> If you have a situation where GCC doesn't use the right compiler (maybe your C++ file doesn't end in .cpp, or .C), then you can do gcc -x language, for example: gcc -x c++ c++-program.xyz
[08:04:26] <OndraSter> hmm I am tempted to buy an optical switch (1U rackmount) just for the sake of taking it apart - right now it is 2 CZK ($0.1) and it ends in 46 hours... I hope it won't go too far :D
[08:04:36] <OndraSter> and I need some camcorder so I can record teardowns!
[08:08:49] <jadew> CapnKernel, I think you're right
[08:09:15] <jadew> the reason why my stuff was not compiling properly must have been because they didn't have the right extension
[08:10:28] <jadew> yeah, that's it
[08:11:22] <jadew> http://pastebin.com/gqZitPUA
[08:17:29] <CapnKernel> Two careers ago, I was a C++ software engineer
[08:17:37] <CapnKernel> Specialising in gcc and cross-platform
[08:17:46] <CapnKernel> 2m lines of code :-)
[08:19:10] <CapnKernel> So I am very familiar with using gcc, and with GNU make
[08:19:58] <CapnKernel> jadew: gcc -x c++ test.c would also have worked.
[08:20:17] <CapnKernel> jadew: (and anyone else) REALLY REALLY REALLY good idea not to call your program test.c
[08:20:29] <CapnKernel> The reason is that you're likely to end up with an exe called "test".
[08:20:50] <CapnKernel> And you'll wonder why your program just doesn't work right. It produces no output?
[08:21:21] <CapnKernel> Eventually you'll discover there's a shell built-in (and system binary) called "test"
[08:21:37] <jadew> CapnKernel, I never inteded to run that :)
[08:21:42] <CapnKernel> That happened to me :-)
[08:22:31] <jadew> I just found another cool project to work on till my parts arrive for the function generator
[08:22:49] <jadew> I'm gonna build an electronic load / resistor
[08:25:08] <RikusW> CapnKernel: ./test ;)
[08:25:41] <RikusW> test1.c test2.c .......... :-P
[08:28:59] <CapnKernel> RikusW: Yes :-)
[08:29:02] <CapnKernel> Or testme.c :-)
[08:32:37] * RikusW always use ./file to run newly compiled files
[08:52:59] <jadew> you know how everyone uses those compressed air cans to clean stuff?
[08:53:14] <jadew> I wash my stuff
[08:53:45] <jadew> just gave a shower to a power source, it's now hanging on the balcony to dry
[08:54:31] <jadew> way easier to clean things up if you want to take them appart
[08:54:52] <jadew> I heard some people wahs their motherboards and they work fine afterwards
[09:01:41] <RikusW> what we don't want to have... -> http://dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/HTML/MorphologyTables.htm
[09:41:41] <Lionhearted> g day
[10:01:03] <RikusW> hi
[10:01:03] <tobbor> Hello RikusW
[10:01:15] <jadew> hi
[10:01:21] <jadew> damn robot hates me
[10:01:43] <OndraSter> eh
[10:01:49] <OndraSter> hi
[10:01:50] <tobbor> hi OndraSter.
[10:01:50] <OndraSter> hi
[10:01:51] <OndraSter> hi
[10:01:52] <OndraSter> hi
[10:01:54] <jadew> come on..
[10:01:57] <OndraSter> LIKE TOTALLY
[10:01:59] <OndraSter> tell us about your project!
[10:02:05] <jadew> hehe
[10:03:04] <jadew> hi
[10:03:20] <RikusW> hi
[10:03:39] <jadew> hi
[10:03:43] <RikusW> tobbor is half deaf...
[10:03:49] <jadew> HI!
[10:03:50] <RikusW> CANUCK
[10:03:50] <tobbor> YANKIE!!!!
[10:04:05] <OndraSter> YANKIE
[10:04:07] <OndraSter> YANKIE!
[10:04:08] <OndraSter> YANKIES
[10:04:11] <OndraSter> canada
[10:04:13] <OndraSter> america
[10:04:15] <OndraSter> ..
[10:04:17] <OndraSter> I give up
[10:04:20] <jadew> hey tobbor
[10:12:28] <Tom_itx> canuck
[10:12:39] <jadew> hi
[10:12:39] <tobbor> Hello jadew
[10:12:41] <jadew> ha!
[10:13:02] <Tom_itx> like totally tell us wtf
[10:13:07] <RikusW> Tom_itx: must be CAPITALS
[10:13:12] <Tom_itx> no
[10:13:14] <Tom_itx> it's random
[10:13:56] <RikusW> canuck
[10:13:59] <RikusW> CANUCK
[10:13:59] <tobbor> yankie, yankie, yankie.
[10:14:04] <RikusW> see
[10:14:18] <Tom_itx> no
[10:14:21] <Tom_itx> it's random
[10:14:23] <Tom_itx> CANUCK
[10:14:24] <tobbor> yankie, yankie, yankie.
[10:14:27] <Tom_itx> canuck
[10:14:29] <Tom_itx> hmm
[10:26:20] <yashi> hi, why is it not allowed to use "brne icall function_name"? how do i get around it? after finishing the called function i want to return to the place where it was called
[10:28:56] <RikusW> brne next
[10:28:57] <RikusW> icall xxxx
[10:28:57] <RikusW> next:
[10:29:09] <RikusW> or breq next if you prefer
[10:34:30] <yashi> RikusW: if i jump via brne next the "ret" in the label "next" will throw me back to the beginning "main" of my program. i dont quite get your example the brne next kicks me to the next: but whats with the icall xxxx?
[10:35:10] <RikusW> icall function_name
[10:39:33] <yashi> RikusW: hm i dont quite get why you create this "next" label to which you jump via brne next :/. i my little world the program wouldnt even see the icall xxxx because i jumps to "next:" before it reaches it :/
[10:39:52] <yashi> in* it*
[10:40:15] <RikusW> depending on the condition
[10:40:27] <yashi> ah fk
[10:40:28] <yashi> ioi
[10:40:32] <yashi> ok ive got it now
[10:40:34] <RikusW> you usually do:
[10:40:35] <RikusW> cmp r16,r17
[10:40:35] <RikusW> breq next
[10:41:10] <RikusW> breq also means branch if zero
[10:41:19] <RikusW> like sub r16,r17
[10:41:20] <RikusW> breq next6
[10:41:38] <RikusW> check the flags affected by various instructions
[10:42:11] <yashi> yy i got it now... i was trying to jump with the branch instruction. but its much easier to dodge the jump with it like you did :P
[10:42:38] <RikusW> use rjmp for that ! ;)
[10:43:30] <yashi> *so much to learn*
[10:43:52] <yashi> thanks a lot!
[11:22:50] * kennyd .
[12:58:43] <e2580> Anyone interested in a sneak peek at a hardware based security device we are about ready to release?
[13:08:10] <Lionhearted> yup
[13:09:09] <specing> e2580: are you releasing it already or are you going to keep asking for sneak peeks until 2014?
[13:09:26] <Lionhearted> specing, yup
[13:09:37] <e2580> kickstarter this week
[13:09:50] <e2580> we are getting final feedbck on the video
[15:11:41] <Xata> Hello people.
[15:12:20] <e2580> hi
[15:12:21] <tobbor> Hello e2580
[15:13:11] <Xata> Question - I make a bitbang on ft232rl, is it a good idea to add an 47pf caps on each of bit wires for noise-cancellation? (one side of cap to wire, other side to gnd)
[15:13:53] <Xata> e2580: hello
[15:14:00] <Xata> tobbor: hello, bot
[15:34:15] <jadew> Xata, 47pF shouldn't be enough to kill your signal
[15:34:23] <jadew> however, you shouldn't have noise either
[15:52:57] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2sU6I
[15:54:00] <ferdna> OndraSter_, you need to define portq
[15:54:27] <OndraSter_> I know
[15:54:31] <OndraSter_> I made that mistake on purpose
[15:54:58] <Xata> jadew: so it actually does not mater? nice, i'll set only 2 on usb signal wires. as i get it you have some practice with ft232 - what is the common way to sync avr and ft? bit-bang mode. i need to send a char to avr and get a response from avr, but it could take some time (adc conversion). i mean - how do isay to avr to set pins to read mode and read them and then how do i make avr send a signal to ft that i got info for it.
[15:55:52] <ferdna> OndraSter_, what is the point of that?
[15:56:06] <ferdna> OndraSter_i just got here... couldnt see history
[15:57:48] <OndraSter_> ferdna, XIDE = XBoard IDE = arduino "clone" for XBoard = advanced arduino
[15:58:35] <OndraSter_> it is in .NET but so far it works on linux too (if I replace the avr-gcc with linux one)
[16:07:15] <jadew> Xata, well, the FT is just a USB to serial conevertor
[16:07:25] <jadew> so you basically send and receive data over USART on the AVR
[16:07:45] <jadew> you shouldn't care about the ft232 from that point of view
[16:21:35] <Xata> jadew: but usart is too slow i think. and application is time-critical. so i have to use a bitbang
[16:22:36] <OndraSter_> 2MBaud is not enough?
[16:31:05] <skorket> I'm trying to do capacitive measurement. I'm using this as a guide: http://tutorial.cytron.com.my/2011/09/19/capacitance-meter/ , except using a 10M ohm resistor to charge and keeping the 220 ohm to discharge (ADC to time it takes to reach the 64% mark). I'm trying to do capacitive sensing in the picofarad range and the femtofarad range if possible. Does anything go bad if I change the 10M ohm resistor to something like a 20M ohm or h
[16:31:05] <skorket> igher? What if I put a gigaohm resistor there?
[17:06:49] <jadew> Xata, I don't think bitbanging usart will be faster than hardware usart
[17:07:12] <jadew> actually, I guess it could be
[17:07:26] <jadew> but it's only half duplex
[17:08:54] <Xata> jadew: not bitbanging usart. idea is that ft232r can convert usb usart to 8-bit data on 8 pins
[17:11:00] <Xata> jadew: and reading-writing on 8 pins is faster than usart, isn't it? for ft this will be the same, but uC this will be faster - the time between ft and avr will be much shorter, and also i can set mad speeds of transfer, because this will not depend on atmega max
[17:11:04] <jadew> ah, that I did not know
[17:11:50] <jadew> yeah, it should deffinitely be faster
[17:12:13] <jadew> I never used a ft232, I found it to be too expensive
[17:15:59] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2sUVW
[17:16:02] <OndraSter_> I have just beaten arduino
[17:16:04] <OndraSter_> I HAVE LINE NUMBERS!
[17:16:16] <jadew> haha, looks nice OndraSter_
[17:16:24] <jadew> have you looked into scintilla?
[17:16:26] <OndraSter_> thank
[17:16:27] <OndraSter_> sno
[17:16:36] <Horologium> the usart has the advantage of being independent hardware for read/write to the external world where reading or writing 8bit parallel will require you to handle all the communication in software.
[17:17:07] <jadew> Horologium, still, you can get uber fast speeds with paralel in software
[17:17:44] <Horologium> jadew, of course you can, but you have to take up more processing time doing so.
[17:17:51] <Horologium> you can get some pretty fast speeds in serial too.
[17:18:08] <jadew> yeah, I suppose it depends on what he's trying to achieve
[17:18:18] <OndraSter_> 2MBaud on serial
[17:18:20] <OndraSter_> with ft232rl
[17:18:21] <OndraSter_> reliable
[17:18:22] <OndraSter_> and mega128
[17:18:30] <Horologium> hence SATA, serial SCSI, HDMI, PCI-e, etc..
[17:18:42] <jadew> the fastest usart speed I got on an avr was 750k
[17:18:53] <jadew> with 0 error that is
[17:18:58] <OndraSter_> I had 0 errors too
[17:19:07] <jadew> neat
[17:19:08] <OndraSter_> 2MBaud is nicely dividable on 16MHz clock
[17:19:13] <jadew> yeah
[17:19:23] <OndraSter_> UBRR = 0 :D
[17:19:26] <OndraSter_> and clk2x = 1
[17:19:29] <jadew> I never tried it tbh
[17:19:31] <Horologium> with parallel data comms you need either a nice stable clock on both sides, like RS232 does for serial, or an extra clock line, like they use for parallel port printer connection.
[17:20:02] <jadew> Horologium, I'd deffinitely go with the extra clock line
[17:20:20] <Horologium> same here.
[17:20:26] <jadew> otherwise you'd still have to have start bits and end bits
[17:20:30] <jadew> so 2 cycles wasted
[17:20:35] <Xata_> jadew: so what is the usual way to make comunications between two 8-bit ports. also i have two pins too one is high and set to low when ft232 wrights and second is set high for a cycle when ft232 requests for a data
[17:21:24] <jadew> Xata, you probably got disconnected, but I said: [00:00.32] <jadew> I never used a ft232, I found it to be too expensive
[17:21:25] <jadew> :)
[17:21:25] <Horologium> if you want parallel interface from usb from an "ft" chip, why not use ft245 which is made for parallel interface?
[17:22:06] <Xata_> application is midi controller. the faster it works - the better speed of midi info can be achived.
[17:22:23] <Horologium> doesn't midi have a max data rate?
[17:22:27] <jadew> tbh, if I wanted usb to paralel I'd use a mcp2200 (which is made for usb to serial) but it's actually a pic18f14k50
[17:22:34] <jadew> which can be written with whatever you want
[17:22:51] <Xata> jadew: me too, but i found out that usb is the only port people will accept
[17:22:51] <jadew> it's the cheappest usb mcu I could find
[17:22:52] <Horologium> jadew, yeah, or just buy an 18f14k50 which is cheaper,
[17:23:06] <Horologium> or sample a few!
[17:23:10] <jadew> Horologium, nope, the mcp2200 is way cheaper
[17:23:14] <jadew> like 30%
[17:23:22] <jadew> at least at the shop I buy them from
[17:23:23] <Horologium> but doesn't come in dip package does it?
[17:23:31] <jadew> yeah... no dip package
[17:24:16] <Horologium> so I'll go with the free samples 18f14k50 chips.
[17:24:27] <Horologium> unless I'm building something production.
[17:24:28] <jadew> I was never able to get free samples
[17:24:34] <Horologium> what country you in?
[17:24:38] <jadew> romania
[17:24:47] <Horologium> aahh. not sure if microchip will send them there.
[17:24:51] <Horologium> they send them to me all the time
[17:24:56] <Horologium> in fact, got a bunch on order right now.
[17:25:00] <jadew> nice
[17:25:10] <jadew> they complained abut my address
[17:25:13] <jadew> my e-mail address
[17:25:17] <Horologium> oh?
[17:25:21] <jadew> @dumb.ro
[17:25:27] <Horologium> get a gmail account.
[17:25:52] <Xata> Horologium: no, midi has max rate only if you are using old hardware port. doing this from usb is mostly made on pc and has no limitations (at least on linux)
[17:25:56] <jadew> if you're getting them with a gmail account it means it's the country
[17:26:37] <Horologium> I've gotten them with gmail account and with my personal account both.
[17:27:11] <Xata> also i have ft232, and only thing i can get here is ft232r. thanks god i found one offline mag to buy any ft
[17:27:45] <jadew> Xata, where are you from?
[17:27:53] <Xata> about that PIC - will it cost less than 3$?
[17:27:59] <Xata> *4$
[17:28:16] <jadew> Xata, yeah, the mcp2200 is like $1.5
[17:28:40] <Xata> jadew: ukraine. so yeah, kinda neighbours
[17:28:48] <jadew> high 5
[17:29:04] <Xata> ||||_
[17:29:08] <Horologium> you might contact microchip directly and see what their policy is about shipping samples to your location.
[17:29:18] <Horologium> they come out of taiwan to me and I get them in a few days here.
[17:29:34] <jadew> Horologium, I don't care that much about this
[17:29:46] <jadew> the problem is that sometimes I can't find the chips I want
[17:30:53] <Horologium> yeah. one good thing about living in the USA. just about everything is available.
[17:31:06] <jadew> and with no additional taxes :)
[17:31:24] <jadew> Xata: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/mcp2200-i_so/usb-integrated-circuits/microchip-technology/
[17:32:07] <jadew> Xata, but be warned, writting new firmware that works as well as the one it comes with it's a challange
[17:32:39] <Horologium> jadew, yeah, it would be nice if they released the firmware for it..even just a hex file.
[17:32:50] <jadew> Horologium, yeah
[17:33:48] <Horologium> I've used the 18f14k50 chips as usb CDC devices in the past.
[17:34:22] <jadew> I had managed to get proper 750k with it and my own firmware
[17:35:02] <jadew> well, not really my own, I modified an already made usb stack
[17:35:22] <jadew> had to do that because the original firmware doesn't allow you to lock a baud rate in
[17:35:23] <Horologium> same here.
[17:36:14] <jadew> like... if your mcu expects 115200 and you connect over serial at 9600, the original firmware will change the baud rate to the one received by the PC
[17:36:16] <jadew> which is stupid
[17:37:00] <Horologium> I also setup a virtual serial controlled i/o system..
[17:37:06] <Horologium> so send simple commands to turn lines on and off.
[17:37:13] <Horologium> and to read ports.
[17:37:24] <Horologium> did much the same with vUSB on avr too.
[17:37:38] <Horologium> but the pic hardware usb makes using CDC on linux much nicer.
[17:37:54] <jadew> I didn't care about that, only wanted to have it working at the custom baud rate, no matter what
[17:38:28] <Xata> jadew: ft232r can work on custom baudrate
[17:38:44] <jadew> Xata, I know
[17:38:47] <jadew> can it lock it in?
[17:39:03] <Xata> what is to lock in?
[17:39:28] <Xata> so free samples... are they that free?
[17:39:29] <jadew> like if you connect (from the pc) to the virtual com port but by specifying a different baud rate
[17:39:44] <jadew> can you make it so it ignores the new baud rate?
[17:39:49] <jadew> the one it receives from the pc
[17:40:09] <Essobi> sup
[17:40:12] <Horologium> Xata, from microchip and several other manufacturers, yes, I get samples free, with no cost on shipping either.
[17:41:12] <Xata> jadew: i donno, but my software sets baudrate after port was connect, so technically overrides, but i do this on linux, and with libftdi1
[17:42:06] <Xata> Horologium: i think we even have official representatives here, so there is a chance, that it will send it
[17:42:41] <Xata> i have to try. what slav will ever reject something for free?
[17:43:07] <Horologium> hey, my family is czech.
[17:43:31] <Xata> and i am ukrainian, so this is not pwnage
[17:43:44] <Xata> or at least self-own
[17:45:25] <jadew> any idea if I can find some power transistors inside a PC power source?
[17:45:40] <Horologium> possibly.
[17:45:43] <Horologium> depends on the power source.
[17:45:58] <Horologium> you are more likely to find powerFETs than powerBJTs
[17:46:05] <jadew> I notice some 3 legged monsters on the heatsinks, but didn't check the part numbers
[17:46:13] <jadew> *noticed
[17:46:16] <Horologium> probably FETs of some kind.
[17:46:23] <jadew> going to see if it's dry
[17:47:34] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2sV8I
[17:47:35] <OndraSter_> yay yay
[17:48:50] <jadew> nice
[17:49:08] <jadew> it's almost ready, eh?
[17:49:13] <OndraSter_> yep
[17:49:13] <Horologium> jadew, have you looked at the mcp2210 yet?
[17:49:17] <Horologium> step up from the 2200
[17:49:21] <OndraSter_> I am rewriting the core libs though
[17:49:25] <OndraSter_> because xmega differs a lot
[17:49:25] <jadew> no, let me check
[17:49:36] <Horologium> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en556614
[17:49:45] <jadew> ah
[17:49:48] <jadew> it's probably the same thing
[17:50:25] <Horologium> same hardware.
[17:50:30] <Horologium> but doesn't do CDC.
[17:50:35] <jadew> yeah
[17:51:00] <jadew> I bet you could make it do both
[17:51:03] <jadew> spi and serial
[17:51:03] <Horologium> looks like a HID only version.
[17:53:23] <Xata> meh. microchip samples no more for my country
[18:03:46] <Xata> what domain do i have to have to get samples from atmel? oh, precious xmegas
[18:04:03] <Horologium> dunno.
[18:04:08] <Horologium> they are harder to get samples from.
[18:04:15] <Horologium> when I lived in florida I had no problem.
[18:04:22] <Horologium> but now living in iowa they won't send them to me.
[18:04:29] <Horologium> it's all about the local atmel rep.
[18:06:26] <Xata> Horologium: any other companies that can give free candy?
[18:07:10] <Horologium> pac-tec for plastic enclosures.
[18:07:13] <Horologium> freescale.
[18:07:18] <Horologium> maxim
[18:07:28] <Horologium> maxim = maxim/dallas semiconductors
[18:07:34] <Horologium> free NVSRAM!
[18:07:41] <Horologium> and free max233 chips!
[18:07:55] <Horologium> also allegro-micro for motor controllers and such.
[18:08:06] <Horologium> just about every major manufacturer will do samples of some kind.
[18:08:11] <Horologium> lots of stuff from TI too.
[18:08:21] <Horologium> got msp430 chips sampled free.
[18:09:10] <Xata> Horologium: TI? Totaly would like this
[18:09:34] <Horologium> yuppers.
[18:12:29] <Xata> Horologium: does it matter what i'll write in "Company" field?
[18:12:48] <Horologium> I usually make something up.
[18:13:03] <Horologium> or use my work company info.
[18:14:40] <Xata> Horologium: second is not the option for me. Glueing advertisements on wall is kinda far from uC's, you know
[18:15:13] <Horologium> so make something up...electronics consulting of some kind.
[18:18:05] <Xata> Horologium: i selected the actual university i am student in
[18:18:31] <Xata> Horologium: what means that "We cannot ship to a P.O. Box." stuff?
[18:19:48] <Horologium> it means they will not ship to a postoffice box.
[18:19:53] <Horologium> needs a regular street address.
[18:20:03] <Horologium> because they probably ship via fedex or ups.
[18:21:18] <Xata> Horologium: i set there my actual street adress, but we don't have postal codes here except for post offices
[18:21:39] <Xata> will this work?
[18:21:45] <Horologium> that should work I suppose.
[18:21:58] <Xata> Horologium: also, how much you paid for delivery? from TI
[18:22:59] <Horologium> none
[18:23:01] <Horologium> zero
[18:23:01] <Horologium> zip
[18:23:03] <Horologium> nothing
[18:23:46] <Xata> Horologium: hm. so i have to try this. at least i loose nothing. thanks for advices
[18:23:58] <Horologium> welcome
[18:29:33] <jadew> ok... the stuff I found in this power source is great
[18:30:18] <jadew> found a few 100W transistors
[18:30:55] <jadew> and a nice heatsink
[18:31:06] <jadew> two heatsinks actually
[18:31:57] <Lionhearted> 100W
[18:32:06] <Horologium> probably some nice transformers and caps too.
[18:32:10] <jadew> yep
[18:32:22] <Lionhearted> can you give approx size?
[18:32:24] <Lionhearted> in cm?
[18:32:31] <jadew> of the transistor?
[18:32:37] <Lionhearted> y
[18:32:37] <jadew> let me measure it
[18:32:43] <jadew> it's pretty big
[18:33:57] <jadew> 1.5 cm width and 2 cm height with out pins
[18:34:13] <jadew> 5mm thick
[18:34:35] <Lionhearted> small
[18:34:45] <Lionhearted> i thought it would be a brick :)
[18:35:09] <jadew> it kinda is :)
[18:35:21] <jadew> let me take a photo
[18:35:31] <Lionhearted> no need
[18:35:48] <Lionhearted> i can immagine the size
[18:36:13] <jadew> it's really big compared to the other power transistors
[18:36:22] <jadew> at least the ones I'm used to
[18:36:39] <Lionhearted> still
[18:37:04] <Lionhearted> you can only drive it with 60% of 100W
[18:37:19] <jadew> I don't even plan to go that far
[18:37:45] <Lionhearted> otherwhise
[18:37:55] <Lionhearted> in my school, there are holes in the ceeling
[18:38:10] <jadew> haha, from blown up transistors?
[18:38:20] <Lionhearted> my proffessors were experimenting with metal diodes
[18:38:28] <Lionhearted> reverse polarization :)
[18:38:35] <jadew> heh
[18:38:37] <Lionhearted> and with electrolytic capacitors
[18:38:46] <Lionhearted> also reverse polarity :;)
[18:39:03] <Lionhearted> capacitors are still in concrete ceeling :)
[18:39:15] <jadew> nice
[18:39:36] <OndraSter_> guys, are you getting samples for your own 1off projects?!
[18:39:38] <jadew> I was hoping for some high power transistor, but this is absolutely perfect
[18:41:02] <Horologium> OndraSter_, yes.
[18:41:05] <OndraSter_> OMG
[18:41:07] <OndraSter_> I WILL
[18:41:08] <OndraSter_> KILL YOU!
[18:41:13] <OndraSter_> I wanted samples for legit projects
[18:41:15] <OndraSter_> and they said "no"
[18:41:21] <Horologium> for my own oneoff projects and for teaching kids to use the products.
[18:41:23] <OndraSter_> legit = possibly hundreds devices sold
[18:41:24] <Horologium> but I lie a lot on the forms.
[18:41:42] <Horologium> and some of the designs have gone on to become commercial products through other people too.
[18:41:50] <Horologium> don't say hundreds.
[18:41:52] <Horologium> say thousands!
[18:41:58] <Horologium> hundreds means nothing to them
[18:42:00] <OndraSter_> I think I said 100 - 1000 in the first year
[18:42:06] <Horologium> 5k to 10k a year production means something to them.
[18:42:24] <OndraSter_> atmel sent me samples when I said 200 devices in 4 months
[18:43:07] <Horologium> I've gotten dozens of devices from both maxim and microchip.
[18:43:15] <OndraSter_> this was from STM
[18:43:24] <Horologium> never ordered from stm
[18:43:31] <OndraSter_> 3band digitally controller squalizer
[18:43:32] <Horologium> have gotten a lot of stuff from TI though.
[18:43:34] <OndraSter_> equalizer*
[18:43:39] <Horologium> and fairchild.
[18:43:40] <OndraSter_> I have gotten one sample from TI
[18:43:46] <OndraSter_> and twice from Dallas
[18:44:08] <Lionhearted> OndraSter_, how do samples work?
[18:44:08] <Horologium> hell, maxim/dallas has sent me 50 dollar a piece 8052 based modules.
[18:44:16] <OndraSter_> Lionhearted, just as retail chips
[18:44:18] <Horologium> and 50 to 80 dollar each memory modules.
[18:44:25] <Lionhearted> OndraSter_, i mean, i like TI
[18:44:33] <Horologium> you order them, they ship them, you use them...
[18:44:38] <Lionhearted> OndraSter_, but how easy it is to order it
[18:44:41] <Horologium> sometimes they don't ship them.
[18:44:56] <Horologium> I could have TI samples on the way in 10 or 15 minutes from now.
[18:44:58] <Lionhearted> Horologium, sometimes?
[18:45:08] <Horologium> atmel is a bit iffy on samples.
[18:45:18] <Horologium> I've never had a problem from TI or microchip.
[18:45:22] <OndraSter_> Lionhearted, that depends, how are you good at lying?
[18:45:22] <Lionhearted> TI is the greatest
[18:45:31] <Horologium> maxim/dallas, it kinda depends on the devices I request.
[18:45:46] <OndraSter_> I have gotten about 8 pieces in total of ds18b20
[18:45:55] <OndraSter_> and two (three?) pieces of max3something
[18:46:00] <OndraSter_> K-type thermocouple
[18:46:02] <Horologium> but lately maxim and TI have both started sending me stuff I never asked for....for my consideration..
[18:46:03] <OndraSter_> AD
[18:46:09] <OndraSter_> lol
[18:46:27] <Lionhearted> because my bud found it difficult to order samples from TI
[18:46:42] <Lionhearted> so im asking how do you do it
[18:46:56] <Rami_> Hello... please any URL for downloading AVRgcc learning ebooks... and thank you all. :)
[18:46:59] <OndraSter_> I use it for legit projects
[18:47:02] <Horologium> some years back TI sent me a sampler package of their PCF8574 chips.
[18:47:11] <Horologium> Rami_, www.google.com
[18:47:12] <OndraSter_> I used only Maxim's stuff for 1offs :D
[18:47:51] <Rami_> Horologium: I've googled but nothing important to download
[18:47:53] <Horologium> Rami_, do a google search for avr-gcc tutorial
[18:47:56] <Lionhearted> Rami_, well avr gcc is simple
[18:48:05] <Lionhearted> Rami_, i am learning it atm
[18:48:26] <Horologium> you probably won't find any ebooks...but plenty of tutorial sites.
[18:48:36] <Rami_> thank you
[18:48:44] <Rami_> i will
[18:48:46] <Rami_> :
[18:48:56] <Horologium> that's how I taught myself something like 8 years ago.
[18:49:03] <Horologium> and there is much more out there now than when I started.
[18:49:08] <Lionhearted> i have an e book
[18:49:12] <Lionhearted> if you want
[18:49:43] <Rami_> so i will be like you after 8 years Horologium ???
[18:49:50] <Horologium> hopefully not.
[18:49:51] <Lionhearted> no
[18:49:53] <Horologium> I'm a total asshole!
[18:49:54] <Lionhearted> waste of time
[18:50:01] <Rami_> if i leaned avrgcc by myself?
[18:50:14] <Horologium> Lionhearted, how good is the ebook? I might like to peruse it for my students.
[18:50:25] <Lionhearted> Horologium, well its 125$
[18:50:28] <Rami_> Horologium: no.... you don't say.:)
[18:50:34] <Lionhearted> i mean i got it for ....
[18:50:38] <Lionhearted> downloaded...
[18:50:42] <Lionhearted> but still
[18:50:56] <Lionhearted> tell me what you want to know about the book
[18:51:14] <Rami_> Lionhearted: i need for free ebook..
[18:51:18] <specing> Horologium: ah so you are a teacher
[18:51:28] <Lionhearted> Rami_, well
[18:51:32] <Lionhearted> if you download it
[18:51:38] <Horologium> not really a teacher...I work with kids on and off teaching them electronics and microcontrollers and programming.
[18:51:58] <Horologium> professionally I'm a computer tech/sysadmin but currently I work fixing copiers and printers.
[18:52:21] <Horologium> I work with local groups like boyscouts and 4H, teaching kids when they ask for it.
[18:53:07] <Lionhearted> well the b00k is fantastic
[18:53:26] <Lionhearted> it explains C
[18:53:40] <Lionhearted> and adds avr stuff....
[18:54:11] <Lionhearted> i can give you a L1nk if you want?
[18:55:06] <Rami_> Lionhearted: really?
[18:55:53] <Lionhearted> well for you too but originally it was for Horologium
[18:56:38] <Horologium> thanks Lionhearted..that would be great.
[18:58:12] <Rami_> yes it will be great.
[19:00:56] <Lionhearted> Horologium, u skimmed through the book ?
[19:05:15] <OndraSter_> I am tempted at least partially port .NET micro framework to AVR
[19:05:25] <OndraSter_> or write custom IL interpreter
[19:05:33] <Horologium> IL ??
[19:05:46] <OndraSter_> yes
[19:05:54] <Horologium> I found a C interpreter that I'm trying to port to AVR.
[19:05:58] <Horologium> what is IL?
[19:06:03] <OndraSter_> intermidiate language
[19:06:08] <OndraSter_> MSIL in this case
[19:06:28] <OndraSter_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Intermediate_Language
[19:06:30] <OndraSter_> CIL *
[19:06:32] <Horologium> so, microsoft's version of java bytecode interpreter?
[19:06:46] <jadew> Horologium, yeah
[19:07:00] <jadew> OndraSter_, I don't think that's gonna be a quick project
[19:07:13] <Horologium> port mono to avr maybe?
[19:07:22] <Horologium> but that's a massive project to shrink down and fit on an avr.
[19:07:22] <OndraSter_> Horologium, microsoft's bytecode
[19:07:25] <OndraSter_> yes
[19:07:40] <OndraSter_> .net micro framework with full TCPIP stack costs about 400kB on ARM
[19:07:47] <OndraSter_> and about 100kB of RAM
[19:08:00] <Lionhearted> .net is crap
[19:08:01] <OndraSter_> full TCPIP = with v6 I think even
[19:08:03] <OndraSter_> bla bla
[19:08:08] <Horologium> xmega might do it but not regular mega.
[19:08:10] <jadew> and that doesn't sound like an issue at all when it comes to avrs :P
[19:08:18] <OndraSter_> :P
[19:08:44] <OndraSter_> well there is 384kB xmega
[19:08:59] <OndraSter_> although it would be much easier to write the most basic IL interpreter and fit it into 128kB
[19:09:02] <Horologium> or setup an xmega with external program space.
[19:09:09] <OndraSter_> yes
[19:09:12] <OndraSter_> that is the other option
[19:09:18] <OndraSter_> fit into 128kB the core IL interpreter
[19:09:21] <OndraSter_> (that WOULD fit just fine)
[19:09:30] <OndraSter_> and use external 16MB RAM :)
[19:09:43] <jadew> come on...
[19:09:45] <OndraSter_> if somebody can run bloody ARMv5 emu with linux in it on mega1280...
[19:10:05] <jadew> you're better off with c, or c++
[19:10:08] <OndraSter_> :D
[19:10:15] <OndraSter_> but... you could use Visual Studio
[19:10:41] <Horologium> Lionhearted, looks like they took a lot of info straight from K&R Teach Yourself C
[19:10:46] <OndraSter_> and get rid of that awful languages called C and C++
[19:10:50] <OndraSter_> those*
[19:11:00] <jadew> c++ is awesome
[19:11:02] <Lionhearted> Horologium, u like it or not?
[19:11:09] <Horologium> I might run it through one or more OCR apps I have and get a searchable version..
[19:11:15] <OndraSter_> c++ is awful.
[19:11:18] <jadew> OndraSter_, you're not taking into account the speed ;)
[19:11:18] <Horologium> yeah, it looks like a decent book.
[19:11:28] <OndraSter_> jadew, when you are using arduino you do not care about the speed.
[19:11:41] <Lionhearted> Horologium, because i started reading it, and i decided to quit :P
[19:11:43] <OndraSter_> pinMode vs PORTx.OUTSET is quite a difference
[19:11:52] <OndraSter_> calling pinMode vs setting PORTx.OUTSET register*
[19:12:17] <jadew> I only use PORTx
[19:12:26] <Horologium> jadew, same here.
[19:12:27] <OndraSter_> but you do not use arduino
[19:12:31] <Horologium> PORTx, PINx
[19:12:36] <Horologium> etc.
[19:12:41] <OndraSter_> there are MANY people who use arduino
[19:12:52] <Horologium> OndraSter_, unfortunately... :{
[19:12:58] <OndraSter_> I don't mind them
[19:13:02] <Lionhearted> i use arduino
[19:13:03] <OndraSter_> hell, I am writing arduino clone.
[19:13:05] <jadew> OndraSter_, don't think that means you have to cater for them :P
[19:13:16] <OndraSter_> and I love C# :D
[19:13:28] <OndraSter_> C# is as good as programming can get
[19:13:31] <OndraSter_> C# and all of its goodies
[19:13:55] <OndraSter_> just as PowerShell >>> bash
[19:14:31] <Horologium> never seen anything C# can do that C can't.
[19:14:49] <OndraSter_> *without 30 times more lines of code
[19:14:51] <OndraSter_> .
[19:15:03] <Horologium> and 30 times the overhead.
[19:15:15] <OndraSter_> I can make a design of a window in XML and bind it to objects
[19:15:31] <OndraSter_> MVVM ftw
[19:15:52] <Horologium> that's great for windows programming.
[19:16:12] <OndraSter_> obviously
[19:16:16] <Horologium> for embedded devices I would think it would be very much overkill.
[19:16:32] <OndraSter_> :P
[19:16:39] <jadew> OndraSter_, you know.. the first thing I learned when I started playing with AVRs was that I have to give up on some stuff that make code elegant and go with what works / uses less resources
[19:16:42] <OndraSter_> unless you connect 480x800 screen
[19:16:49] <OndraSter_> heh
[19:17:00] <OndraSter_> time to get your xboard ultra with 16MB RAM!
[19:17:12] <jadew> heh
[19:17:16] <Horologium> bah. learn to program on a C-64.
[19:17:21] <OndraSter_> I'd rather not
[19:17:26] <Horologium> do a full GUI in 64K of ram.
[19:17:31] <OndraSter_> I live in the current times
[19:17:33] <OndraSter_> time
[19:17:37] <Horologium> that's program and data space.
[19:18:04] <jadew> Horologium, there used to be a contest, when I was a kid, it was called 4k
[19:18:13] <Horologium> yes, where a full gui takes longer to boot up now than it did 10 years ago to do the same web browsing.
[19:18:17] <OndraSter_> when I was a kid I was playing TTD already
[19:18:20] <jadew> it was about who could make the coolest program in 4 kbytes
[19:18:27] <jadew> I saw 3d graphics done in 4k :)
[19:18:38] <Horologium> jadew, I remember that but never participated.
[19:18:53] <jadew> neither have I
[19:19:30] <jadew> I still have some of the submitted programs, they were mind blowing for 4 k
[19:20:08] <jadew> I guess working with AVR's takes me back to those times, when resources were limited and you had to get creative
[19:20:10] <Horologium> yes.
[19:20:15] <Horologium> same here.
[19:20:16] <jadew> there was some sort of... struggle
[19:20:35] <Horologium> that's why I have kids actually work on my c-64 boxes for early programming.
[19:20:46] <jadew> you're teaching?
[19:20:57] <Horologium> I teach 4H and scouts sometimes.
[19:21:06] <jadew> nice
[19:21:07] <Horologium> when they want to learn electronics and get their badges and whatnot.
[19:21:42] <Horologium> teach them assembly on the 6502 on the c-64
[19:24:44] <jadew> (trying to find those programs)
[19:24:57] <jadew> maybe they'll still work
[19:25:47] <Horologium> next weekend I hope to have some new 1Mb serial srams to play with!
[19:26:00] <Horologium> will simplify my bitbanged vga system considerably
[19:26:25] <Horologium> can run them in 1bit, 2bit, or 4bit mode.
[19:30:43] <OndraSter_> them?
[19:31:12] <Horologium> serial sram chips.
[19:33:46] <Horologium> 23LC1024
[19:34:31] <Horologium> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en559066
[19:36:53] <jadew> lmfao
[19:37:02] <Horologium> ?
[19:37:03] <jadew> I found autodesk animator
[19:37:05] <jadew> v 1
[19:37:09] <Horologium> hehe.
[19:37:14] <Horologium> that should run on an AVR!
[19:37:16] <Horologium> almost.
[19:37:20] <jadew> it's in the back up from my old PC
[19:40:47] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/aa.png
[19:41:53] <Horologium> think dosbox will be fast enough to run it?
[19:41:54] <Horologium> hehe
[19:42:01] <jadew> heh
[19:43:04] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/aa2.png
[19:45:03] <jadew> ah, that's not the window with the version...
[19:45:17] <OndraSter_> that's not the droid you were looking for
[19:45:51] <Tom_itx> evening peeps
[19:45:55] <jadew> it's hard to navigate trough it
[19:47:54] <Tom_itx> what is 'atomic' used for?
[19:48:11] <Horologium> nuking the picture!
[19:49:54] <OndraSter_> OMG
[19:50:00] <OndraSter_> I have got my laptop rotated right to the window
[19:50:07] <OndraSter_> and somebody has launched a flare
[19:50:09] <OndraSter_> green one
[19:50:11] <OndraSter_> I thought WTF ALIENS
[19:51:08] <OndraSter_> w|zzy, already seen Fringe?
[19:51:27] <w|zzy> yes
[19:51:32] <OndraSter_> okay
[19:51:37] <OndraSter_> anybody else watches Fringe?
[19:51:41] <w|zzy> Spoilers?
[19:51:43] <OndraSter_> yes
[19:51:47] <w|zzy> :)
[19:51:54] <OndraSter_> just making sure.
[19:52:01] <w|zzy> Appreciated
[19:52:35] <OndraSter_> what has Peter done... :P
[19:52:41] <OndraSter_> he is now... SPOILER!
[19:56:24] <w|zzy> I know!
[19:56:34] <w|zzy> He has never liked listening to other people..
[19:59:36] <OndraSter_> :))
[19:59:41] <OndraSter_> I am a bit like him
[19:59:47] <OndraSter_> I don't listen to other people very often either
[19:59:49] <OndraSter_> anyway
[19:59:51] <OndraSter_> it is late
[19:59:51] <OndraSter_> gn
[19:59:59] <w|zzy> Enjoy :D
[20:00:14] <jadew> night
[20:47:10] <Brittania> Hey everyone. I'm relatively new to microcontrollers. I've been working on a custom board function around the m644p microcontroller, everything running, tried to configure the low fuse, success!... Now I'm getting an initialization error.
[20:48:02] <Brittania> In short words: I think I've fucked it up by setting a wrong value when trying to select an external oscillator.. Ultimately though, I have absolutely no clue where to turn first to get this thing even accepting input.
[20:49:40] <Tom_itx> make an external clock and tie it to the crystal pin
[20:49:47] <Tom_itx> it's a very common mistake
[20:50:04] <Tom_itx> it's so common, i added a clock source to my programmers
[20:50:34] <Brittania> Sorry Tom, I'm pretty damn new to most of this. Maybe I should explain a little more, actually.
[20:50:38] <Tom_itx> otherwise you won't be able to use it
[20:50:56] <Brittania> This is a development board for a university project. One where one of our exercises was to specify the use of an external high precision oscillator.
[20:51:08] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:51:14] <Tom_itx> it's a ttl input
[20:51:19] <Tom_itx> not a crystal
[20:51:50] <Brittania> So I took a look through the data sheet, found that to set up an 'external oscillator' that the value '0000' should be sent in hex to the low fuse.
[20:51:59] <Brittania> So I just modified that.
[20:52:06] <Brittania> it succeeded, then the intialization error.
[20:52:16] <Brittania> And frankly, I have absolutely no idea how to make an 'external clock' or even what you mean by tieing it to something.
[20:52:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[20:54:12] <Brittania> ah.
[20:54:17] <Brittania> Actually, this is useful. Thank you.
[20:54:30] <Brittania> But it appears maybe a little too late now that I can't get input/output from the damn thing.
[20:54:39] <Brittania> Isn't there a way I can flash the chip?
[20:54:40] <Tom_itx> :D
[20:54:41] <Tom_itx> i know
[20:54:45] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:54:52] <Brittania> I just want to set it back to default.
[20:54:55] <Tom_itx> you need to make an external ttl clock source
[20:55:00] <Tom_itx> 555 timer or something
[20:55:12] <Brittania> oh.
[20:55:14] <Tom_itx> or another avr
[20:55:26] <Brittania> So.. this can't be fixed with just throwing commands at a terminal.
[20:55:27] <Tom_itx> set a pin output with a square wave on it
[20:55:31] <Tom_itx> nope
[20:55:36] <Brittania> Well fuck.
[20:55:40] <Tom_itx> not if you did what i think you did
[20:55:53] <Tom_itx> it's a very common noob mistake
[20:56:50] <Tom_itx> the frequency should be 4x the ISP SPI clock rate
[20:56:51] <Brittania> sigh.
[20:57:14] <Brittania> This is a fucking nightmare.
[20:57:27] <Brittania> I've barely understood one word thrown at me today, 14 hours into this job and now this, Jesus Christ.
[20:58:00] <Brittania> but I'm afraid when I hear this kinda talk, I'm lost entirely.
[20:58:09] <Tom_itx> it's not so difficult just gotta get the right clock source selected
[20:58:12] <Brittania> I've barely got myself through basic circuit theory. This is my fifth week in electronics at all.
[20:58:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[20:58:55] <Brittania> So this is overwhelming beyond control. I'm going to go see if my husband has a 555 timer stuck in his old box of magical electronic goodness.
[20:58:56] <Tom_itx> a simple place to start
[20:59:37] <Brittania> heh, I'm taking a look.
[20:59:44] <Tom_itx> the data sheet will tell you where to hook the clock
[20:59:54] <Tom_itx> it's probably xtal1
[21:03:56] <Brittania> So on the fuse, the default is for the clock source to be set to: 0010 and the upper bits to be 0110
[21:04:05] <Brittania> for some reason I missed a whole bunch of stuff because I'm losing my mind.
[21:04:22] <Brittania> went to try and specify an external oscillator, might have done it wrong though.. by setting the lower 4 bits to 0000
[21:04:33] <Brittania> and the upper 4 bits to 1000 becaus the notation confused me.
[21:04:40] <Brittania> I knew I wanted to NOT divide the clock by 8.
[21:04:56] <Brittania> but. I didn't know how, because the notation is odd to me. I tend to think on or off.
[21:06:41] <Tom_itx> yeah the fuses seem backwards
[21:07:03] <Brittania> so I'm afraid I'm not really sure what I'm up to.
[21:07:11] <Brittania> I have a breadboard. a 555 timer and some random electronic components.
[21:07:23] <Tom_itx> use that site to figure out the fuse settings you want
[21:07:39] <Tom_itx> are you using studio or avrdude?
[21:07:47] <Brittania> well I'm not sure if I want clock output on PB1
[21:07:48] <Brittania> avrdude
[21:07:59] <Tom_itx> it gives you the avrdude line at the bottom for the fuse settings
[21:08:44] <Brittania> only poblem I have is deducing some of the values that I want.
[21:08:51] <Brittania> problem*
[21:08:56] <Tom_itx> generally you would select external full swing crystal
[21:09:11] <Tom_itx> for a crystal or oscillator
[21:09:13] <Brittania> my problem is that I need to do so many things I don't understand.
[21:09:26] <Brittania> I'd love to, right now, understand everythnig that's in front of me. But I don't. I'm just expected to set it up and use it.
[21:09:41] <Brittania> so right now I'm staring at datasheets and calculators and having to make a guess.
[21:10:02] <Tom_itx> follow my tutorial to get a feel for the chip once you get the clock right
[21:10:20] <Brittania> I have so much goddamn work to do that I can barely spare a moment. I've been dealing with this board for 14 hours.
[21:10:23] <Tom_itx> you haven't destroyed it, just told it something you didn't really want
[21:10:33] <Brittania> I just want to type someting in a command line
[21:10:45] <Brittania> I don't wanna make another pcb I don't understand the use of
[21:10:49] <Brittania> with components I've not used
[21:10:57] <Brittania> and an output and input I have no idea how to control.
[21:10:59] <Tom_itx> find a clock source and get that ironed out first
[21:11:10] <Tom_itx> we will help you here
[21:11:16] <Tom_itx> just take it one step at a time
[21:11:18] <Brittania> I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by hat.
[21:11:21] <Brittania> that*
[21:11:30] <Tom_itx> the 555 timer thing
[21:11:35] <Brittania> I have a 555 timer chip.
[21:11:36] <Tom_itx> to get your chip talking again
[21:11:55] <Tom_itx> the frequency needs to be at least 4x the SPI rate
[21:12:13] <Tom_itx> i think avrdude has a switch for that, i'm not sure
[21:12:17] <Tom_itx> i know studio does
[21:12:28] <Brittania> I have an LED I use to show activity from the chip
[21:12:35] <Brittania> when I send a signal at it, the LED blinks.
[21:12:48] <Brittania> and I have studio as well, actually
[21:13:03] <Tom_itx> so are you able to program the chip or do you get errors?
[21:13:27] <Brittania> I'm not sure.
[21:13:31] <Tom_itx> if the fuses are set wrong you won't be able to until you hook up the 555 to the xtal1 pin
[21:13:31] <Brittania> I just installed the software, I haven't used it.
[21:13:51] <Brittania> Sorry I'm a bit like a brick wall. I hope you understand why I'm asking so much with so little experience.
[21:14:02] <Brittania> alright so
[21:14:04] <Brittania> hook it up.
[21:14:12] <Brittania> Where can I find a circuit diagram to describe what it is I want to do here?
[21:14:33] <Tom_itx> it's a mega644p?
[21:16:12] <Tom_itx> P. 32 shows the crystal oscillator
[21:16:19] <Tom_itx> but you need to get the fuses fixed first
[21:16:44] <Brittania> xtal1.
[21:16:54] <Brittania> that iiiis pin 13.
[21:17:16] <Tom_itx> so pin 13 and GND
[21:18:04] <Brittania> right.
[21:18:12] <Brittania> So I need to hook up a 555 timer to pin 13 and gnd
[21:20:02] <Brittania> well.. this is an 8 pin chip '555CN'
[21:22:11] <Brittania> found a schematic for it.
[21:23:51] <Brittania> so I'm sat here with a 555 timer, a small prototyping board and a schematic for the chip I'm meant to restore.
[21:24:18] <Brittania> I'm not all so certain here as to where I should start.
[21:29:07] <Tom_itx> first of all, confirm you can't read the fuses or device signature as it currently is
[21:31:18] <Brittania> sorry, I'll do that right away. Just getting a friend watching over webcam to make sure I plug some cables in right. I'm colour blind.
[21:32:41] <Brittania> Yeah. I can't get anything running at all. Any command I use to try and get anything from thechip:
[21:32:47] <Brittania> Initialization failed, rc=-1
[21:32:59] <Tom_itx> so then you need to hook up the 555
[21:33:11] <Tom_itx> and power up the chip again and see if you can read the fuses again
[21:33:38] <Brittania> So how does one hook up the 555 timer?
[21:33:49] <Brittania> The chip is an 8 pin device
[21:33:51] <jadew> you connect the red terminal to green terminal
[21:34:02] <Tom_itx> is it wired up as an oscillator?
[21:34:02] <Brittania> fuck. :(
[21:34:07] <Brittania> I'm not sure.
[21:34:08] <jadew> I'm kidding haha
[21:34:21] <Brittania> Tom, again, I would have to specify this is my fifth week in electronics D=
[21:34:30] <Brittania> I literally just have a chip sitting on a breadboard
[21:34:35] <Brittania> and I'm 95% sure it's a 555 timer.
[21:34:50] <jadew> Brittania, check the datasheet of the 555
[21:34:52] <Tom_itx> so you need to wire up an oscillator
[21:34:54] <jadew> it should have some example in there
[21:34:56] <Brittania> I don't know what it is. It's a chip. It's meant to perform a function that will apparently un-fuck-up my board if connected to pin 13 somehow
[21:35:05] <jadew> like... something really simple to generate a clock
[21:35:28] <Brittania> so wiring up an oscillator.
[21:35:32] <Brittania> What does that mean?
[21:35:36] <Brittania> what value oscillator?
[21:35:55] <jadew> I didn't even read the conversation, but I think I know what this is about
[21:35:58] <jadew> you screwed up an avr
[21:36:10] <jadew> and now you need an external clock to have it running again
[21:36:15] <jadew> correct?
[21:36:15] <Brittania> yes ma'am.
[21:36:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_555.htm
[21:36:40] <jadew> do you know how to read a schematic?
[21:37:14] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC
[21:37:16] <Brittania> if that would be based on if I have any idea what I'm looking at in the link sent above
[21:37:19] <Brittania> no. Not even close
[21:38:06] <jadew> it's time to get a new chip then :D
[21:38:13] <Tom_itx> naw
[21:38:27] <Tom_itx> don't toss it, you can fix it once you learn
[21:38:38] <jadew> yeah, it's not broken
[21:39:32] <jadew> Brittania, you basically need to generate a clock signal (square wave) to drive the avr
[21:39:39] <Brittania> understood.
[21:39:44] <jadew> https://www.google.com/search?q=555+clock&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[21:39:46] <Brittania> I have no idea how to even begin understanding how to do that.
[21:40:04] <jadew> well, the 555 chip is an oscillator chip
[21:40:15] <jadew> in some configurations it will do just that
[21:40:21] <Brittania> Is there a circuit diagram I can follow for this
[21:40:23] <jadew> I'm sure there's an example in the datasheet of the 555
[21:40:50] <Brittania> I'm not even sure I have a power source.
[21:40:56] <jadew> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/classes/AY2011/cs3651_spring/docs/LM555.pdf
[21:41:12] <jadew> you can power it from the same thing you power your avr
[21:41:31] <jadew> in that PDF you can take a look at the application notes
[21:41:36] <Brittania> so I can use the c232hm cable
[21:41:56] <jadew> I don't know what that is
[21:42:13] <jadew> must be serial something
[21:42:16] <Brittania> It's a serial cable.
[21:42:25] <jadew> so use it for what?
[21:42:37] <Brittania> I use it to supply power and i/o to the board.
[21:42:50] <Tom_itx> serial doesn't have 5v out
[21:43:00] <jadew> if it does, it's ok
[21:43:01] <Brittania> well, I wouldn't know.
[21:43:08] <jadew> it might be a usb to serial
[21:43:14] <jadew> if it's not, you probably fried the avr
[21:43:22] <Brittania> but
[21:43:24] <Tom_itx> apparently something has 5v or you wouldn't have been able to change the fuses
[21:43:24] <Brittania> I had it working just fine
[21:43:30] <Brittania> I just tried to change the fuse and then blam
[21:43:36] <jadew> ah, got it
[21:43:37] <Brittania> it was done.
[21:43:40] <Brittania> It did it just fine, then gone.
[21:43:47] <jadew> do you remember what you changed them to?
[21:43:55] <Tom_itx> it might be easier for you right now to get another chip
[21:43:58] <Tom_itx> but save that one
[21:44:13] <Brittania> but.. oh god really
[21:44:17] <Tom_itx> then before you decide to change the fuses, verify them with someone here
[21:44:21] <Brittania> Yeah
[21:44:27] <Brittania> the default for low was 0x32
[21:44:30] <Brittania> I changed to 0x80
[21:44:36] <jadew> Brittania, what chip?
[21:44:40] <Tom_itx> 644
[21:44:41] <Brittania> m644p
[21:45:05] <Brittania> fuck fuck FUCK why did I not do this in the first place.
[21:45:10] <jadew> yeah, you selected an external clock
[21:45:19] <Tom_itx> yeah we know :D
[21:45:21] <Brittania> I just assumed by the complacency of the goddamn work document that you have room for error.
[21:45:26] <Tom_itx> that's why i'm after the 555
[21:45:37] <jadew> you know.. he might have a crystal around
[21:45:49] <Tom_itx> crystal won't get it
[21:45:53] <jadew> Brittania, do you have any broken electronics?
[21:45:55] <Tom_itx> not with external clock selected
[21:45:55] <jadew> ah
[21:45:57] <jadew> it's clock
[21:45:59] <jadew> right
[21:46:01] <Tom_itx> ttl
[21:46:06] <jadew> yeah, get another chip
[21:46:09] <Brittania> Why would they let BRAND NEW students HAVE to guess values that could break the system?! That's not fair! Those are the ones that should be provided. :
[21:46:15] <jadew> or do the 555 thing
[21:46:15] <Brittania> (And I'm a woman, btw.)
[21:46:22] <Brittania> but I don't want to get another chip
[21:46:25] <Brittania> this is due in Thursday
[21:46:28] <Brittania> I can't get another chip by then
[21:46:40] <Tom_itx> you are learning a valuable lesson here
[21:46:49] <jadew> yeah, we all did that :)
[21:46:58] <Tom_itx> i don't think i ever did
[21:47:01] <jadew> first avr, bam
[21:47:08] <jadew> I did, that's how I met you guys lol
[21:47:41] <jadew> no... I was here long before that, but that's when the party started for me
[21:47:46] <jadew> anyway
[21:47:53] <jadew> so you have a 555 or not?
[21:48:20] <Tom_itx> apparently it's not wired up
[21:48:25] <jadew> oh...
[21:49:03] <rue_house> hello
[21:49:07] <jadew> Brittania, you're | | this close to getting it back together
[21:49:14] <rue_house> Brittania, were you playing with fuses?
[21:49:22] <jadew> rue_house, obviously
[21:49:25] <Tom_itx> rue_house how did you guess?
[21:49:53] <rue_house> Brittania, what do you have for electronic parts?
[21:50:00] <Brittania> I do have an LM555
[21:50:07] <Brittania> and a whole bunch of other random assorted shite
[21:50:11] <Brittania> and an arduino uno!
[21:50:11] <Brittania> lol
[21:50:14] <Tom_itx> rue will get you wired up
[21:50:14] <jadew> Brittania, that's good
[21:50:25] <Brittania> and a raspberry pi!
[21:50:26] <jadew> Brittania: http://www.coolcircuit.com/tools/ne555_calculator/index.php
[21:50:27] <rue_house> ok, anything with a 4Mhz oscillator module on it?
[21:50:49] <Tom_itx> the rasberry pi may be able to output a clock for you
[21:51:00] <jadew> actually give me a sec, I might have an app that calculates that
[21:51:01] <Brittania> well I have a 12MHz oscillator on the board itself.
[21:51:08] <rue_house> osc module?
[21:51:12] <rue_house> board?
[21:51:19] <rue_house> not a crystral
[21:51:25] <Brittania> ah, I just have a crystla.
[21:51:28] <Brittania> crystal*
[21:51:28] <jadew> wait, you have an oscillator?
[21:51:29] <rue_house> a metal oscillator module
[21:51:30] <jadew> ah
[21:51:38] <Brittania> just a little silver thingy.
[21:51:39] <Brittania> lol..
[21:51:45] <jadew> how many legs?
[21:51:47] <Tom_itx> rue_house she's a total noob
[21:52:02] <Brittania> Damn. Put down. :(
[21:52:13] <rue_house> do you know what a osc module looks like?
[21:52:13] <Tom_itx> no, just letting him know where to start
[21:52:20] <Brittania> Last time I was called a 'total noob', I was a 12 year old playing Runecape damnit! lol.
[21:52:54] <rue_house> Brittania, do you know what a osc module looks like?
[21:53:12] <Brittania> I'm not too sure..
[21:53:21] <Brittania> Really sorry about this.
[21:53:22] <rue_house> ok,
[21:53:25] <rue_house> np
[21:53:30] <rue_house> lets see
[21:53:31] <Brittania> from what I found on google search
[21:53:39] <Brittania> it's like a little metal rectangle.
[21:53:49] <rue_house> or squre yes
[21:54:06] <Brittania> let's see if the hubby has anything in his magical electronics box.
[21:54:08] <Brittania> I doubt it, but eh.
[21:54:32] <rue_house> if you have circuit boards from taking things apart, tell me about that too
[21:54:58] <jadew> Brittania, if you fail, keep in mind you only need 2 resistors and a capacitor to get that ne555 into a clock
[21:55:37] <rue_house> sometimes getting enough freq out of a 555 to do this is a trick
[21:55:41] <jadew> with 2 resistors of 50ohm + 1 cap of 10nF, you get a clock of close to 1Mhz
[21:56:09] <Tom_itx> then the SPI freq needs to be 250khz
[21:56:26] <Brittania> tis an LM555 jadew
[21:56:32] <Brittania> I've got caps and res's
[21:56:45] <rue_house> its an option
[21:56:55] <jadew> http://www.coolcircuit.com/tools/ne555_calculator/index.php that's the schematic
[21:57:01] <rue_house> the osc module is a faster option
[21:57:14] <jadew> yeah
[21:57:36] <jadew> R1 = R2 = 50 - 100ohm (they have to be equal). and c1 = 10nf
[21:57:47] <Brittania> bollocks.
[21:57:50] <Brittania> I've got a 10nf in the board itself.
[21:57:58] <Brittania> wait
[21:58:15] <Brittania> the leg I'm meant to connect to has the 10nf directly conncted to it
[21:58:25] <Brittania> oh no
[21:58:27] <Brittania> it's 22.
[21:58:53] <jadew> ok... 22
[21:58:57] <jadew> what resistences do you have?
[21:59:11] <Brittania> let me grab a couple.
[22:01:06] <Brittania> oh let's see through the rest of these caps..
[22:01:36] <Brittania> these are marked weird..
[22:01:38] <Brittania> like
[22:01:48] <Brittania> 0.120k
[22:02:00] <Brittania> and 100 mkt
[22:02:03] <Brittania> mxt, sorry
[22:02:10] <Tom_itx> got an ohm meter?
[22:02:24] <jadew> I think she's talking about the caps :P
[22:02:34] <jadew> I don't know how to read those
[22:03:01] <Brittania> and are you sure an LM555 is good
[22:03:01] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Capacitor_Codes
[22:03:10] <Brittania> I got a DMM
[22:03:24] <Brittania> nothing for capacitance.
[22:03:58] <jadew> 22nF is ok, if you have low value resistors
[22:04:11] <Brittania> it's solderd onto the board.
[22:04:21] <jadew> ah
[22:04:42] <jadew> don't you have a friend who's into this stuff?
[22:05:43] <skorket> anyone around?
[22:05:45] <Brittania> I don't.
[22:06:04] <jadew> Brittania, how the hell is that possible?
[22:06:19] <Brittania> well
[22:06:24] <Brittania> it's about 3:00am here.
[22:06:28] <jadew> you get to do something with an AVR but you don't have friends who actually enjoy doing this stuff?
[22:06:36] <Brittania> and I've been going since abouuut 10:00am
[22:06:38] <rue_house> Brittania, what board is your avr on?
[22:06:44] <Tom_itx> you say your hubby has electronic parts... can't he assist?
[22:06:53] <Brittania> he's asleep
[22:06:58] <rue_house> she killed him in chapter 2
[22:07:01] <Brittania> and *not that good*
[22:07:06] <skorket> are there any problems doing ADC conversions behind a gig ohm resistor?
[22:07:07] <Brittania> like
[22:07:12] <Brittania> borderline useless when there's an actual problem.
[22:07:17] <rue_house> skorket, yes
[22:07:35] <rue_house> Brittania, what kinda board is your avr on?
[22:07:41] <jadew> lol
[22:07:55] <skorket> rue_house, there needs to be a minimal amount of current before the ADC will successfully convert?
[22:07:57] <Brittania> That's a damn good question rue.
[22:08:03] <Brittania> One that my university built and I implemented.
[22:08:07] <Brittania> sorry
[22:08:09] <rue_house> ok
[22:08:09] <Brittania> they deisgned it
[22:08:12] <Brittania> I built and implemented it.
[22:08:22] <rue_house> so there are a number of circuits on it?
[22:08:33] <Brittania> there's really not so much on here.
[22:08:35] <Brittania> It's very very basic.
[22:08:45] <rue_house> ok
[22:08:57] <rue_house> do you have any circuit baords pulled out of things?
[22:09:03] <rue_house> for parts?
[22:09:15] <Brittania> 5 caps, 5 res, 1 crystal osc, 2 switches, 1 voltag reg, and a whole bunch of output pins.
[22:09:23] <Brittania> hm
[22:09:26] <Brittania> lol.
[22:09:31] <Brittania> Would a useless PC motherboard count
[22:09:39] <rue_house> by crystal osc you just mean crystal right?
[22:09:45] <Brittania> sure
[22:09:50] <rue_house> yes! a motherboard would count!
[22:09:56] <jadew> I had an idea
[22:10:08] <rue_house> any other boards, there might be something better
[22:10:09] <Brittania> I'my data sheet for what I've been given says it's a
[22:10:10] <jadew> how slow can you burn an avr with avrdude over bitbang serial?
[22:10:14] <Brittania> '12MHz crystal oscillator.
[22:10:16] <jadew> (which is what I think she's using)
[22:10:29] <rue_house> 12Mhz on the motherboard or the avr board?
[22:10:52] <Brittania> on the avr board
[22:11:01] <rue_house> motherboards use pll's sometimes they have a 'slow' crystal osc onboard
[22:11:03] <Brittania> it's just a metal, rounded thing.
[22:11:11] <rue_house> 2 pins?
[22:11:13] <rue_house> or 4?
[22:11:14] <Brittania> yes
[22:11:14] <Brittania> 2
[22:11:18] <rue_house> we want 4
[22:11:21] <Brittania> bollocks.
[22:11:24] <Brittania> I want 2. :(
[22:11:33] <rue_house> any other circuit boards, old stuff?
[22:11:39] <rue_house> just want to get a pallette here
[22:11:57] <Brittania> .. I have a coin mechanism
[22:12:08] <rue_house> with a controller?
[22:12:14] <Brittania> let's see.
[22:12:16] <Brittania> It's in my arcade machine
[22:12:22] <Brittania> and I don't put money in my own machine.
[22:12:38] <rue_house> what year is the arcade machine?
[22:12:41] <rue_house> 82 ish?
[22:13:24] <rue_house> approx
[22:13:43] <Brittania> 98
[22:13:51] <Brittania> holy fucking shit, never mind that
[22:13:51] <rue_house> is the back off?
[22:13:55] <Brittania> that thing has a giant ground pin on it
[22:14:01] <Brittania> it appears to be hooked to the CRT monitor
[22:14:09] <Brittania> I best not remove that. Dead Brittany != Productive Brittany
[22:14:22] <Brittania> and yeah, but the only stuff inside is powering the machine.
[22:14:50] <rue_house> it *might* have a 1Mhz to 16Mhz osc module, in a socket you can 'borrow' to jumpstart your avr
[22:15:23] <rue_house> odds are there but medium-low, often, they didn't socket them
[22:16:15] <rue_house> hello?
[22:16:40] <Brittania> sorry
[22:16:42] <Brittania> went to the bathroom.
[22:16:47] <rue_house> tell me about the motherboard
[22:17:18] <Brittania> sorry, will do so asap, you're in the kitchen with me right now, I'm hungry after 8 hours of this with no break
[22:17:27] <Tom_itx> rue maybe you could blink the parport for a clock
[22:17:32] <rue_house> I have other things to do too
[22:17:45] <Tom_itx> rue_house did you make your isp cable?
[22:17:48] <rue_house> I dont think there is the attention here to get this resolved
[22:18:02] <rue_house> no, I want to do that after I buy a usb hub
[22:18:13] <rue_house> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-MINI-USB-2-0-4-PORT-HUB-CABLE-FOR-LAPTOP-PC-C-/370368975453?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item563bb6125d
[22:18:21] <rue_house> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/7-Port-Mini-Real-USB-2-0-High-Speed-HUB-With-AC-Adaptor-/320628610128?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item4aa6f45450
[22:18:29] <Tom_itx> why wait?
[22:18:39] <Brittania> you may be right rue
[22:18:47] <Brittania> maybe I'm just too tired.
[22:18:54] <Brittania> Maybe I should come back at this tomorrow with someone else.
[22:19:04] <Brittania> before I give myself an aneurism
[22:19:08] <rue_house> polling for answers is annoying
[22:19:13] <Tom_itx> where are you btw?
[22:19:30] <rue_house> Brittania, if you can wait 22 days I can give you a listing for a $1 osc module that will fix you up
[22:19:50] <Brittania> 'fraid it's gotta be by this thursday, rue.
[22:19:54] <Brittania> I think I know what I'll do, actualy.
[22:20:14] <Brittania> I'll schedule with my university that I use their laboratory out of my normal hours, so I spend time in the laboratory when other students are in with postgraduate assistance.
[22:20:31] <Brittania> then I'll raid their cupboards for bits.
[22:20:33] <Tom_itx> tell em you bricked it
[22:20:37] <Brittania> And cry if all else fails til someone fixes it for me.
[22:21:15] <Tom_itx> Brittania, what country are you from?
[22:21:21] <Brittania> Britain
[22:21:33] <Brittania> Brittany was alreay registered with this server :(
[22:21:49] <rue_house> Brittania, I cant get out of you what you have for parts, new or used, so I cant try to help
[22:22:10] <Brittania> I was trying to get my motherboard out of the case rue
[22:22:14] <Brittania> but I think it's best I just leave it for now.
[22:22:20] <Brittania> Thanks guys for giving me a direction of what I should be doing though :)
[22:22:38] <rue_house> the motherboard might have what you need right on it, ready to go
[22:22:47] <rue_house> just attach 2 wires, but I dont know
[22:22:53] <rue_house> anything about the board
[22:23:24] <Brittania> I think I will leave it for now
[22:23:44] <rue_house> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/9-8304MHz-Crystal-Oscillator-by-Dale-/350616553517?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a260082d
[22:23:53] <Brittania> with what I've got, if I go into university now, I'll be alright as long as they give me stuff.
[22:24:03] <Brittania> and I can organize this for tuesday. heh.
[22:25:08] <rue_house> Tom_itx, you can see why I'm losing my gumption to help anyone anymore
[22:25:28] <Tom_itx> i know
[22:25:29] <Brittania> I'm sorry, rue_house
[22:25:41] <Brittania> I've honestly been doing my best to keep up.
[22:26:12] <Brittania> I think I just burnt out about 20 minutes ago and now I'm trying to say thank you for the help, with what I've got, I can see the solution, but I can't fix this tonight with what I've got.
[22:26:24] <rue_house> before you to make food, wanna tell me the model of the motherboard?
[22:26:40] <Brittania> Okay, I'll go dig it out of the closet.
[22:26:54] <Brittania> (I've already made food, will eat after I figure this out :) )
[22:27:27] <Tom_itx> rue_house wire up your isp cable while you wait
[22:27:55] <rue_house> I'm drolling over another type of hum
[22:27:57] <rue_house> hub
[22:28:00] <rue_house> sorry tom
[22:28:08] <rue_house> I can shop on ebay later
[22:28:16] <rue_house> I'll go make that cable up now, biab
[22:28:25] <rue_house> er
[22:28:36] <rue_house> miso <-> mosi on the cable pinout, right?
[22:28:43] <Brittania> Epox 8RDA3I
[22:29:16] <Tom_itx> i don't think so
[22:29:37] <Tom_itx> master in doesn't go to master out
[22:29:51] <rue_house> no I mean, programmer to avr
[22:29:59] <rue_house> I assume sck->sck
[22:30:00] <Tom_itx> that's what i said
[22:30:02] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:30:12] <rue_house> miso->mosi
[22:30:17] <rue_house> mosi->miso
[22:30:20] <Tom_itx> miso miso
[22:30:22] <rue_house> > -> rst
[22:30:22] <Tom_itx> mosi mosi
[22:30:25] <rue_house> ok
[22:30:32] <Tom_itx> i'm nearly positive
[22:30:32] <rue_house> ? -> rst?
[22:30:57] <jadew> I can confirm the miso miso thing
[22:32:03] <Tom_itx> huh, i guess my tutorial doesn't have a schematic of that. it has a picture showing the connections to a 168
[22:32:09] <jadew> rue_house, is it a standard programming header?
[22:32:18] <rue_house> no
[22:32:23] <Tom_itx> he's using a u2 to make a programmer
[22:32:27] <rue_house> I dont use 6 pin cause it sucks, I alwasy use 10 pin
[22:32:29] <jadew> I see
[22:32:54] <jadew> well, the reset should go to whatever the u2 uses as the chip select
[22:33:32] <jadew> normally it should be the /CS pin, but that's not mandatory since SPI doesn't take CS low for you
[22:33:33] <Tom_itx> rue_house, wire it up to the spi pins mosi-mosi miso-miso sck-sck rst to the reset pin
[22:33:36] <jadew> so you can use any pin you want
[22:33:42] <jadew> no
[22:33:49] <jadew> reset can't go to reset
[22:33:56] <jadew> it wouldn't do anything
[22:34:00] <jadew> they would both stay high
[22:34:15] <Tom_itx> on an isp cable
[22:34:20] <rue_house> reset must be reset on the U2 board, cause the button is attached to it
[22:34:20] <jadew> ah
[22:34:34] <Tom_itx> rue_house, i think it's pb4
[22:34:36] <Tom_itx> on the board
[22:34:39] <Tom_itx> i can look again
[22:34:43] <rue_house> (m32) (m32U2)
[22:34:47] <Tom_itx> or you can look at the logs
[22:34:48] <rue_house> er
[22:34:51] <rue_house> (m32) m32U2
[22:35:02] <rue_house> (miso) miso
[22:35:10] <rue_house> (mosi) miso
[22:35:13] <rue_house> lksjflkjsadflkjasf
[22:35:21] <rue_house> (mosi) mosi
[22:35:27] <rue_house> (sck) sck
[22:35:36] <rue_house> rst ?
[22:35:40] <Tom_itx> pb4
[22:35:42] <Tom_itx> i tink
[22:35:45] <rue_house> ok
[22:35:58] <jadew> what software is on the u2?
[22:36:00] <rue_house> :) I'm putting you thru a lot of work on this one
[22:36:48] <Tom_itx> yeah reset goes to PB4
[22:36:58] <rue_house> Brittania, for the record, I cant get a good enough image up of that bord to help me here
[22:37:02] <rue_house> ok
[22:37:13] <Tom_itx> the others are obvious
[22:37:27] <jadew> vcc and gnd? :D
[22:37:33] <Tom_itx> pb1..pb3
[22:37:38] <Tom_itx> for the other signals
[22:37:50] <rue_house> vcc is 12kV right?
[22:37:55] <Tom_itx> pb1 sck
[22:37:59] <Tom_itx> pb2 mosi
[22:38:03] <Tom_itx> pb3 miso
[22:38:27] <rue_house> pb4 rst
[22:38:29] <Tom_itx> and be sure the first thing you do, set the fuses to external clock source
[22:38:41] <rue_house> heh
[22:39:13] <rue_house> oh wait, I dont know what the fuses are at on this
[22:39:19] <rue_house> I'v never tweeked them
[22:39:23] <jadew> and disable serial programming
[22:39:42] * rue_house writes the instructions on a popsicle stick for lack of paper
[22:39:51] <jadew> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[22:40:39] <rue_house> 7 clock sources on that motherboard and I cant tell what chips they running off
[22:41:56] <Brittania> I've looked at my motherboard..
[22:42:11] <Brittania> I can't find any crystal oscillator modules.
[22:43:46] <rue_shop3> ok
[22:44:15] <rue_shop3> 10 pin ribbon cable
[22:44:31] <rue_shop3> Tom_itx, for the record, do we have a pin for controlling a programming led?
[22:44:38] <Tom_itx> no
[22:45:17] <rue_shop3> silly 6 pin
[22:45:17] <Tom_itx> those were abandoned at the turn of the century
[22:45:54] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/using_avrdude_index.php
[22:46:00] <Tom_itx> the isp pinouts are at the bottom there
[22:47:38] <rue_shop3> just trying to figure out the 10 pin pinout
[22:47:47] <Tom_itx> i just showed you
[22:52:27] <rue_shop3> no, which pin is which of the 10 pin connector, got it
[22:52:33] <rue_shop3> mapping interconnections
[22:52:36] <rue_shop3> ...
[22:52:57] <rue_shop3> |/-\|/-\|
[22:56:58] <rue_shop3> soldering....
[23:13:22] <rue_house> Brittania, if I knew what the chips were that have the 6 crystals on them, and the speeds, I could tell you what pins to tap
[23:13:33] <rue_house> it would help if you had an older motherboard or an old vga card
[23:14:20] <rue_house> ok tom, programmer plugged into a tiny26
[23:14:34] <rue_house> sweeet
[23:14:44] <rue_house> zippo:/files/programming/src# avrdude -c avrisp2 -p t26 -P usb -e
[23:14:44] <rue_house> avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions
[23:14:44] <rue_house> Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.01s
[23:14:44] <rue_house> avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9109
[23:14:44] <rue_house> avrdude: erasing chip
[23:14:45] <rue_house> avrdude: safemode: Fuses OK
[23:14:47] <rue_house> avrdude done. Thank you.
[23:14:49] <rue_house> You have new mail in /var/mail/root
[23:14:53] <rue_house> zippo:/files/programming/src#
[23:15:06] <rue_house> :) I used the U2 for something
[23:15:17] <rue_house> I still need to makea usb soundcard from the U4
[23:19:03] <rue_house> now to flash an led
[23:24:06] <rue_house> huh, compiler barfed
[23:30:11] <rue_house> library paths are borked
[23:42:42] <rue_house> yaya!
[23:43:02] <rue_house> ok, 2 things, my gcc -I include /usr/include which IS a problem
[23:43:13] <rue_house> second the -P usb IS REQUIRED
[23:45:44] <Tom_itx> works ehh?
[23:46:42] <Tom_itx> i wasn't sure about the -P USB but it _was_ in my command line
[23:56:03] <rue_house> its required
[23:56:06] <rue_house> I have a flashing led
[23:56:14] <rue_house> uh ho,
[23:56:21] <rue_house> if I pull out the programmer is stops
[23:56:33] <rue_house> ah, but powering the circuit up it starts again
[23:56:38] <rue_house> :)
[23:57:12] <Tom_itx> cool
[23:58:02] * Tom_itx heads to sleep
[23:58:04] <jadew> wow... one of my cases came with 4 screwable legs, 1 screw and no holes for the screws
[23:58:12] <jadew> *enclosures
[23:58:26] <rue_house> all my old makefiles had stuff in them to get around 'features' in the old compilers and installs, I'll have to start propigating the corrections
[23:58:43] <rue_house> heh
[23:59:16] <rue_house> ok, well, now I can write the software to sequence the steppers for the reprap
[23:59:28] <rue_house> thanks tom
[23:59:47] <rue_house> for getting me the U2 and helping me make a programmer of it