Back
[03:44:29] <Timelord83> http://www.timelord83.com/Parallel_Programer.png
[03:44:50] <Timelord83> how does that look for aparallel port AVR programer?
[03:51:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/ispdongle.pdf
[03:51:16] <Tom_itx> that one works
[03:53:52] <Timelord83> mines for programing like the ATtiny2313 chips
[05:53:47] <jadew> so I have a little issue with my hakko iron, well with the holder, the yellow paint from the holder is rubbing off of the iron, in the form of yellow dust
[05:53:51] <Horologium> Tom_itx, while yours works if you follow pin numbers, it is a bit confusing to people who like to just poke things into holes as the pin numbers don't properly correspond to the physical pin locations on the parallel port in that picture.
[05:54:05] <jadew> contacted hakko and they said they haven't heard of it before and that they'll replace my holder
[05:54:18] <Horologium> jadew, maybe it is uranium dust?
[05:54:34] <jadew> heh, I think the paint wasn't dried properly or something
[05:54:35] <Horologium> or is it a fake?
[05:55:02] <jadew> not a fake, they had me open it and take pictures of everything
[05:55:09] <jadew> serial number and stuff and they said it's an original
[05:55:29] <Horologium> then poor quality QA.
[05:55:53] <jadew> yeah, I'm glad they'll replace it tho, because that yellow dust is really annoying
[06:03:40] <jadew> how do you amplify a signal to 0 and 1? I figured DC coupling it and using an opamp as a comparator it would work, but I think that when there's no oscillation on the input signal it will start amplifying noise
[06:03:46] <jadew> how do you get around that?
[06:04:06] <Horologium> depends on the input signal.
[06:04:28] <jadew> why?
[06:04:59] <Horologium> what signal are you wanting to turn into a logic level signal?
[06:05:29] <Horologium> a sine wave, a low voltage digital signal, or what?
[06:05:35] <jadew> that's the thing, I don't really know, it's for my function generator, I want to add FM modulation capability
[06:05:54] <jadew> so it should be able to take in anything
[06:05:56] <Horologium> how you filter and amplify depends on what your input is and required output is.
[06:06:34] <jadew> well, wouldn't DC coupling pretty much ignore the kind of signal it is?
[06:07:26] <jadew> if I feed it trough an opamp with - connected to ground, I should get 0 and 1 no matter how small the oscillation
[06:07:51] <jadew> the amplitude won't really matter
[06:07:59] <Horologium> an opamp is just an amplifier...an analog comparator...
[06:08:03] <RLa> opamp needs to have rail-to-rail input
[06:08:22] <Horologium> your output depends on your input...
[06:08:44] <Horologium> you don't just get the same voltage levels output no matter what the level of the input....
[06:09:10] <jadew> of course you do, it has huge gain when you're not doing negative feedback
[06:09:22] <jadew> so you get max + or max -
[06:10:34] <RLa> btw, for better signal levels, a schmitt trigger could be used
[06:10:50] <RLa> hm, maybe avr inputs already are those?
[06:11:20] <RLa> opamp without feedback isn't too slow?
[06:11:21] <jadew> I think for a schmitt trigger you need to know how your input looks like
[06:11:24] <Horologium> jadew, use a comparator rather than an opamp for that.
[06:11:38] <RLa> jadew, only voltage levels
[06:11:45] <RLa> if it's sine or sine-like
[06:12:01] <RLa> without peaky oscillations between transitions
[06:12:01] <Horologium> like the LM339
[06:12:54] <RLa> won't comparator need a voltage level to "compare" against?
[06:13:04] <jadew> RLa, yeah, ground
[06:13:08] <Horologium> so does an opamp.
[06:13:37] <RLa> you also use negative voltage, like -5V?
[06:13:38] <Horologium> but a comparator is designed for just what it seems jadew is looking to do.
[06:14:10] <Horologium> many AVRs have built in comparators.
[06:14:12] <RLa> maybe in perfect world, without noises
[06:14:40] <RLa> noise near ground level would cause lot of false triggering
[06:14:53] <RLa> you need a window comparator :)
[06:15:05] <RLa> which is a scmitt trigger is :)
[06:17:02] <RLa> isn't lm339 a quad circuit, so you would get 2 window comparators
[06:17:34] <Horologium> that was just one suggestion...there are multiple possibilities out there.
[06:17:45] <RLa> you could add feedback from avr with i2c resistors to tune the window width
[06:18:07] <jadew> those resistors have crappy bandwidth
[06:18:48] <RLa> someone here post article how to modifiy them for 10x bandwidth
[06:19:00] <RLa> a week ago
[06:19:05] <jadew> that was me
[06:19:10] <RLa> hehe :)
[06:19:20] <RLa> anyway, how much bw you need?
[06:19:56] <jadew> well, on this part of the device about 3Mhz
[06:30:41] <RLa> can you capture data in avr at that rate anyway?
[06:31:02] <jadew> I'm not planning to capture it
[06:31:24] <jadew> I'll feed it to the DDS, it has an input that allows you to switch between frequencies with 0 and 1
[06:32:17] <jadew> it's able to do this switch at about 9Mhz, but I don't aim that high
[08:37:54] <eni23> hello. mabye someone can help me here: i have a chip, 8pin smd, labeled "Sc46D 026L12". think must be some eeprom. mabye someone could help me, dont find any datasheets with this label
[10:10:37] <OndraSter__> http://researchinprogress.tumblr.com
[11:23:19] <eni23> its an AT93C46D, problem solved :)
[11:23:50] <kline> anyone know what needs to be done to expose parallel ports in debian 6.0.6? it appears in /proc/ioports, but i dont see anything with a likely name in /dev/
[11:26:36] <eni23> kline: usually kernel maps it to /dev/lpX
[11:27:04] <kline> no lp0, no parport0
[11:27:34] <karlp> missing kernel modules for pport support?
[11:28:02] <kline> nope, parport_pc is there
[11:32:32] <eni23> kline: dumb question but is it activated in bios?
[11:33:10] <kline> eni23: thats a good question, and id need to check, but i dont see any reason why it would be disabled. certainly when i was setting up this box nothing was disabled
[11:33:39] <kline> i cant get downtime on this right now, but ill check later on if nothing else is working. likewise ill strip everything out and reseat
[11:34:06] <eni23> then try: mknod -m 660 /dev/lp0 c 6 0
[11:34:40] <kline> ok, it shows, ill go test it
[17:25:53] <ferdna> do arduino inputs have to be 5v or can they also be 3.3 volts?
[17:30:26] <Tom_itx> probably so
[17:30:32] <ferdna> in other words can i read sensors that are 3.3 volts?
[17:30:41] <Tom_itx> probably so
[17:30:46] <prpplague> ferdna: they are based on what voltage level you are operating the device on
[17:31:01] <prpplague> ferdna: if VCC to the avr is 3.3V then the i/o is 3.3V
[17:31:03] <ferdna> http://www.scoutuav.com/2011/12/13/low-cost-arduino-based-auto-stabilizing-system/
[17:31:11] <Tom_itx> even so a 3.3v logic high should be read as a 5v high
[17:31:13] <ferdna> i am planning to skip the logic level converter.
[17:31:30] <OndraSter__> 3.3v = logic 1
[17:31:44] <OndraSter__> note that if you are sending data TO the sensor, it has to be able to take 5v
[17:32:52] <ferdna> OndraSter__why? i will be only reading the sensors
[17:33:26] <Tom_itx> ferdna, are you sending an enable etc to the sensor?
[17:33:38] <Tom_itx> that's what he's talking about
[17:33:57] <Tom_itx> any signal TO the sensor must be tolerated by the sensor
[17:34:04] <ferdna> ohhh
[17:34:24] <ferdna> yeah an initialize thing
[17:34:56] <ferdna> so there is no way on skipping the logic level converter
[17:35:04] <ferdna> it is required
[17:35:18] <OndraSter__> what interface is it using?
[17:35:19] <OndraSter__> SPI?
[17:35:59] <ferdna> i think so
[17:36:08] <OndraSter__> you need just two resistors then
[17:36:09] <OndraSter__> well, four
[17:36:30] <Tom_itx> well make up your mind
[17:36:53] <ferdna> http://www.scoutuav.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LowCost-Auto-Stabilizer-Schematics.png
[17:37:09] <OndraSter__> wjoch one?
[17:37:10] <OndraSter__> which one
[17:37:23] <OndraSter__> 6dof imu?
[17:37:25] <OndraSter__> that is i2c
[17:37:31] <ferdna> no is not
[17:37:33] <OndraSter__> that one will be simple since i2s ic "open sollector"
[17:37:34] <OndraSter__> oh
[17:37:39] <OndraSter__> which one then?
[17:37:53] <ferdna> i want to connect 6dof directly to arduino
[17:37:59] <ferdna> you know the 3.3v one
[17:38:01] <OndraSter__> so it is the 6dpf
[17:38:02] <OndraSter__> dof
[17:38:05] <Tom_itx> ferdna, look at the voltage dividers on the SD in this schematic:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/logger/Datalogger32_mmc_sch.png
[17:38:07] <ferdna> yes
[17:38:08] <OndraSter__> damnit keys, stop messing around.
[17:38:13] <OndraSter__> you need just some 3v3 source
[17:38:22] <OndraSter__> and put the pullup resistors to the 3v3 rather 5v
[17:38:40] <ferdna> 4.7 resistors?
[17:38:45] <OndraSter__> 4k7 or 10k
[17:38:50] <OndraSter__> either of those
[17:38:53] <ferdna> okay
[17:39:47] <ferdna> so this way we just eliminate the line converter and thus leaving us with 6dof and the nano
[17:39:55] <ferdna> lets say that the nano is a 3.3v one
[17:40:28] <OndraSter__> then you still need those 10k or 4k7 pullups
[17:41:13] <ferdna> sounds good
[17:42:24] <ferdna> thank you guys =)
[17:42:34] <OndraSter__> np
[17:43:13] <ferdna> Tom_itx, what type of datalogger is that?
[17:44:58] <ferdna> i was looking at this:
http://radiocensura.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tumblr_m26lt4cdjx1r2hxmpo1_400.gif
[17:45:10] <ferdna> wait not that one...
[17:45:45] <ferdna> this one:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11114
[17:54:54] <grimes99> which low cost ISP programmer on ebay supports win7?
[17:55:32] <specing> grimes99: none
[17:55:36] <specing> grimes99: use Linux
[17:56:42] <ferdna> grimes99: linux all the way =)
[17:59:55] <grimes99> never used it for programming.. don't even know how to make GUI app in it
[18:00:47] <OndraSter__> grimes99, all of them
[18:01:06] <OndraSter__> the better question is "which low cost programmer supports my chip"
[18:01:07] <OndraSter__> chips
[18:07:23] <specing> grimes99: TUI all the way
[19:18:55] <home> so avr eh
[19:19:07] <Horologium> yuppsies.
[19:19:09] <home> I like PIC better
[19:19:14] <Horologium> why?
[19:19:22] <home> because I have experience using it?
[19:19:27] <home> I don't like pickits though
[19:19:30] <home> those are crap
[19:20:02] <Horologium> I think each microcontroller line has it's ups and downs.
[19:20:13] <Horologium> each has uses the other doesn't fit properly.
[19:20:43] <Horologium> avr I find easier to work with for young newbies to microcontrollers as the documentation is much nicer all around.
[19:21:12] <Horologium> pic I like for the usb interface in dip package chips along with the PSP and some of the other options they have.
[19:21:23] <home> wow
[19:21:25] <Horologium> 8052 I like for the ability to execute code from sram
[19:21:32] <Horologium> from external sram even.
[19:21:33] <home> you sure used a lot
[19:21:35] <home> thats awesome
[19:21:41] <Horologium> arm for higher end systems.
[19:21:43] <home> I wish I had time :P
[19:21:52] <Horologium> each has plusses and minuses.
[19:22:00] <home> whats that new ti thingy
[19:22:22] <Horologium> I find dollar for dollar and clock for clock AVR 8bit vs PIC 8bit, the AVR is faster
[19:22:37] <Horologium> msp420 and stellaris for TI.
[19:22:42] <Horologium> msp430 rather
[19:23:03] <Horologium> the msp430 is fast but I'm not finding it user friendly so far, at least not for linux users.
[19:23:30] <home> is it good though?
[19:23:33] <Horologium> avr has full support in the open source development tools using GCC
[19:23:48] <Horologium> pic is getting there but they haven't made it up to snuff yet.
[19:23:57] <home> I have an Arduino, and pic makes me rage >.>
[19:23:58] <Horologium> stellaris I hear is pretty fast and good.
[19:24:20] <home> I wish I had more time to do cool projects
[19:24:37] <Horologium> I hate arduino for the reason that they abstract the hell out of the hardware for you and many people I've dealt with seem to have picked up bad habits from the arduino thing.
[19:25:30] <Horologium> arduino is an attempt to dumb down microcontrollers for the masses.
[19:25:49] <kline> home: we just had this discussion in #arduino, why are you trying to upset people on purpose?
[19:25:53] <Horologium> my opinion anyhow.
[19:26:11] <Horologium> it has its place
[19:26:16] <Horologium> but not on my workbench.
[19:27:04] <home> yeah
[19:27:08] <home> kline: what?
[19:28:00] <home> kline: I am not upsetting anyone tbh, and I was not part of any discussion in #arduino
[19:28:29] <home> I just found an AVR channel, and I thought it would be awesome to get some new perspectives
[21:30:27] <theBear> coming into an avr channel and saying you like pic better isn't really a conversation started
[21:30:29] <theBear> starter
[21:35:53] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[21:36:05] * Lt_Lemming points @ #pic
[22:08:53] <skorket> I'm trying to make a capacitive measurer. Why does this guy insist of having separate "charge" and "discharge" pins? Why not just use the "charge" pin for charging and discharging?
[22:15:29] <timemage> skorket, this guy?
[22:16:09] <skorket> oh! sorry! link:
http://tutorial.cytron.com.my/2011/09/19/capacitance-meter/
[22:19:39] <timemage> skorket, any idea what BBB stands for?
[22:20:45] <skorket> don't know
[22:22:12] <Blecha> better business bureau
[22:22:24] <Blecha> timemage?
[22:22:33] <timemage> Blecha, yeah?
[22:22:39] <Blecha> ^^^
[22:22:50] <timemage> Blecha, yes, you're very clever.
[22:23:03] <Blecha> Is that what you were talking about?
[22:23:20] <timemage> Blecha, i don't think so. not unless they have an interest in measuring capacitors.
[22:23:42] <Blecha> they take that very seriously
[22:27:26] <timemage> Blecha, heh
[22:32:20] <timemage> skorket, might just be to have different charge and discharge rates.
[22:34:04] <skorket> maybe discharging through the resistor would slow it down?
[22:34:18] <skorket> discharging right next to the cap speeds it up?
[22:35:57] <timemage> skorket, not sure i understand the question. there's a 220 ohm resistor there, calculated so as not to damage on the avr i would assume.
[22:37:02] <timemage> skorket, the capacitor it's charging through is the 10k one, which i would guess was made larger to draw out the charge time to get more accurate readings.
[22:37:18] <skorket> but the idea is that the discharge rate through the 220 ohm resistor would be faster than through the 10k ohm one?
[22:37:23] <skorket> http://www.cytron.com.my/usr_attachment/Capacitance_Meter_Schematic.pdf
[22:37:37] <timemage> skorket, that's what i have in my head at the moment.
[22:38:01] <timemage> skorket, yeah, i've looked at it.
[22:38:13] <skorket> interesting. well, it is roughly 100 times the size, so maybe 100x faster...
[22:38:32] <timemage> skorket, hmm?
[22:39:11] <skorket> charge through the 10k ohm to get a reading, then discharge through the 220 ohm. Discharging through the 220 ohm resistor is roughly 100x faster since 220 is roughly 100x smaller than 10k?
[22:39:36] <timemage> skorket, my math works differently than yours apparently. but yeah.
[22:40:17] <skorket> the time constant is RC, divide R by roughly a 100, get a time constant that's roughly 100 times smaller?
[22:40:37] <skorket> >:(
[22:41:37] <timemage> skorket, again. it could just be that my mind is too fried, but near as i remember the time constant is directly proportional to the resistance. the ratio here is 10000/220, which is something like 45, rather than 100.
[22:42:04] <skorket> yes, yes, 45. I said "roughly" 100
[22:42:16] <timemage> skorket, very rough =)
[22:42:23] <skorket> waiving hands kind of rough
[22:42:29] <skorket> looking at exponents kind of rough.
[22:42:37] <skorket> ok, anyway, that's probably it, thank you
[22:43:08] <timemage> skorket, right. that's why i concluded with " but yeah." =)
