#avr | Logs for 2012-10-31

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[05:51:36] <Horologium> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/10/30/0614242/codeweavers-announces-flock-the-vote-software-giveaway?utm_source=feedburnerGoogle+Reader&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
[05:51:56] <Horologium> free codeweavers crossover wine implementation today.
[08:30:12] <jadew> WOOT! my hakko fx 888 just arrived
[08:30:40] <OndraSter_> congrats
[08:30:59] <jadew> thanks
[08:35:32] <jadew> looks and feels awesome
[08:35:38] <jadew> very heavy unit and stand
[08:37:36] <OndraSter_> why did I think it was a hotair gun...
[08:41:48] <jadew> it came with a crappy tip tho
[08:41:50] <jadew> the round one
[08:42:12] <OndraSter_> I use round tip..
[08:42:17] <OndraSter_> for everything
[08:42:26] <jadew> I don't really like them
[09:06:47] <rue_house> i think the blue and yellow is halarious
[09:07:05] <rue_house> siler one looks a little more serious
[09:20:59] <jadew> rue_house, yeah, it doesn't look too serious :) but it seems really high quality
[09:21:33] <jadew> I thought the stand is plastic, but I think it's metal and the yellow thing ceramic
[09:21:42] <rue_house> cool
[09:23:57] <jadew> wish I didn't repair my power source last night
[09:24:20] <jadew> now I don't have anything to solder
[09:24:52] <rue_house> get a kit that needs assembly
[09:26:15] <jadew> gonna finish my new function generator soon, there'll be plenty of soldering there
[09:30:49] <megal0maniac> So I kinda accidentally got another job :)
[09:30:58] <megal0maniac> Now I must quit
[09:31:02] <megal0maniac> (The other one)
[09:31:23] <rue_house> I hope it works out for you
[09:31:44] <megal0maniac> Thanks. I'm feeling the need to express my excitement :)
[09:32:05] <rue_house> blow something up
[09:32:07] <rue_house> no wait
[09:32:07] <jadew> nice, congrats
[09:32:13] <rue_house> maybe thats not a good idea
[09:35:09] <megal0maniac> I'm pretty sure I'll get my chance
[09:35:29] <megal0maniac> Want to make something useful (and relevant) with an AVR soon
[09:37:50] <OndraSter_> :)
[09:37:53] <OndraSter_> congrats :D
[09:38:20] <OndraSter_> remote detonation from two nrf24 and two AVRs :)
[09:39:30] <OndraSter_> oh, who was the guy that wanted to know if there is any way how to "force output" the pin to something?
[09:39:41] <rue_house> some passer-by
[09:39:43] <OndraSter_> ah
[09:40:13] <OndraSter_> I realized I misread the manual anyway
[09:40:22] <megal0maniac> ty
[09:40:27] <OndraSter_> xmega has advanced GPIO with wired-or and I thought it was for features
[09:40:33] <OndraSter_> it is for output-input :)
[09:41:54] <OndraSter_> duh, what is the reason for having USART0 option remap, when you can actually use USART1 on the port instead?
[09:42:06] <OndraSter_> (it remaps USART from bottom 4 pins to the upper ones)
[09:46:01] <OndraSter_> yay, xmega has builtin quadrature decoder, frequency capturing and pulse width capturing
[09:47:39] <OndraSter_> or what about 8 PWM channels on each port?
[09:47:54] <inkjetunito> :O AVRs are the Qt of microcontrollers (in a positive way)
[09:48:03] <OndraSter_> either 2x4 16bit or 1x8 16bit and you can use the other timer for anything else internally!
[09:49:09] <OndraSter_> xmega a3U: PortA: ADC, PortB: ADC + DAC + JTAG, PortC: 2x16bit timer (4+2 PWM channels), two USARTs, one SPI, one TWI
[09:49:24] <OndraSter_> PortD: 2x16bit (4+2 PWM channels), two USARTs, one SPI, one TWI, USB
[09:49:31] <OndraSter_> PE: same as PC
[09:49:54] <OndraSter_> PF: one 16bit counter with 4PWMs (can be split into 8 8bit), one USART (can be remapped to the upper nibble)
[09:49:58] <OndraSter_> PQ: optional crystal
[09:50:03] <OndraSter_> DAT XMEGA!
[10:24:57] <day> add r16 r17 means i add the register 16 and the register 17. but r16/r17 are just place holder for the real adress of these registers. means im actually writing something like add 0x01 0x02.
[10:25:09] <day> my question can i use an adress for the command itself too?
[10:26:09] <day> but add probably needs at least two adresses, doesnt it? or do values get put in one at a time?
[10:31:50] <day_> dem disconnects ><
[10:33:07] <OndraSter_> day_, I don't understand your question
[10:33:28] <OndraSter_> R16, R17, ... are "synonyms" for I/O / memory locations
[10:33:30] <day_> i can use adresses for register instead of names
[10:33:32] <day_> yes
[10:33:34] <OndraSter_> R16 is actually address 0x10
[10:33:42] <day_> but can i use adresses for commands too?
[10:33:50] <OndraSter_> commands?
[10:33:58] <day_> OndraSter_: add for example
[10:34:01] <OndraSter_> instructions.
[10:34:07] <day_> OndraSter_: sorry
[10:34:16] <OndraSter_> instructions that work with this have got usually 5 bits for the register
[10:34:18] <OndraSter_> so no, you can not
[10:34:21] <jadew> day_, yes, look into the Z Y and X register pairs
[10:34:47] <OndraSter_> jadew, ?
[10:35:36] <jadew> you can use some instructions on those pairs
[10:35:41] <jadew> which are pointers
[10:36:06] <jadew> I'm not sure if add is one of them, but it could be, I guess it's mcu dependent
[10:36:25] <eric_j> r16 is r16, a register
[10:36:53] <jadew> however, you could load the data from the pointed address into some registers and do whatever with it, then put it back
[10:37:01] <eric_j> accessing the data space is different from accessing a register
[10:37:39] <day_> eric_j: im beginning to notice that :P
[10:37:41] <jadew> eric_j, IIRC you can actually access registers the same way you do with normal memory
[10:38:15] <OndraSter_> with ld/st
[10:38:18] <jadew> yeah
[10:38:42] <OndraSter_> but regular instructions work with only 0 - 0x20
[10:38:42] <OndraSter_> err
[10:38:42] <OndraSter_> 0 - 0x19
[10:38:42] <OndraSter_> err
[10:38:47] <OndraSter_> 0 - 0x1f
[10:39:10] <jadew> some not even that
[10:39:26] <day_> jadew: till now i thought those two register would just get connected to the add unit.
[10:39:54] <day_> jadew: thats why i thought i could access everything just via their adresses
[10:40:12] <eric_j> jadew: not necessarily; the reduced core AVR's do not support that
[10:40:13] <jadew> OndraSter_, r1-r16 (or r15 - not sure) can not be used for binary operations or something strange like that
[10:40:58] <eric_j> most immediate addressing mode instructions are restricted to r16-r31
[10:41:09] <jadew> eric_j, where's that core used?
[10:41:48] <jadew> must be on some of the tiny AVR's?
[10:43:19] <eric_j> yeah, attiny4/5/9/10/20/40 i believe
[10:44:07] <eric_j> incidentally, that also means you can't assume the I/O space starts at 0x20 in data space either (on those tiny's it will actually start at 0x00)
[10:44:15] <day_> so in short: the only way to use the "instruction units?" is to use the appropriate instruction (add, adc, sub, subi, ...)?
[10:44:21] <OndraSter_> jadew, I know
[10:44:31] <OndraSter_> only "immediate" instructions work with R16-R31
[10:44:52] <day_> what have i started ioi
[10:45:14] <jadew> eric_j, good to know
[10:45:29] <OndraSter_> 4/5/9/10 do have really simplified core
[10:45:33] <OndraSter_> and have only r16-31
[10:45:42] <OndraSter_> and flash can be accessed via memory space actually
[10:45:45] <OndraSter_> that's all I remember :D
[10:45:46] <jadew> never worked with those
[10:45:50] <OndraSter_> neither did I
[10:45:55] <day> OndraSter_: ive also read somewhere that the 4 and 10 are the same chips
[10:46:12] <jadew> day, I've read that as well, but it's not confirmed
[10:46:13] <OndraSter_> 4, 9 = 512B/1kB flash, no ADC
[10:46:16] <day> OndraSter_: just another label (maybe a quality downgrading thing)
[10:46:19] <OndraSter_> 5, 10 = 512B/1kB flash, with ADC
[10:46:47] <jadew> OndraSter_, that's the thing, it's tought the 4 has 1k of flash as well
[10:46:53] <day> jadew: y ur right, its not confirmed
[10:56:36] <jadew> the hakko gets from room temp to 350 celsius in 25 seconds
[10:57:33] <jadew> that's really good compared to my direct-into-the-wall iron
[11:22:49] <OndraSter_> my soldering station needs about 15 - 20 seconds to get to 300
[11:23:09] <megal0maniac> Mine is instanly over 9000
[11:23:19] <megal0maniac> I wait for NOTHING
[11:24:59] <jadew> I was lying earlier, I just power mine on, I go have a coffe WHILE my iron is doing the soldering by itself!
[11:25:14] <OndraSter_> I was lying too
[11:25:17] <OndraSter_> I just look at it
[11:25:19] <OndraSter_> and it powers on
[11:25:26] <OndraSter_> and solders everything in the house that has to be soldered
[11:25:57] <megal0maniac> I was also lying
[11:26:02] <megal0maniac> I don't have a soldering iron
[11:26:05] <jadew> mine gets so hot that I can turn it on and reflow solder everything in the room
[11:26:22] <megal0maniac> Actually I do have one
[11:26:25] <OndraSter_> megal0maniac, only regular iron?
[11:26:39] <megal0maniac> And it gets so hot that it can reflow solder everything in YOUR rooms
[11:26:42] <jadew> lol "regular iron"
[11:26:53] <jadew> compared to our super irons, all the irons are "regular" :P
[11:27:04] <jadew> haha megal0maniac
[11:27:23] <OndraSter_> heh
[11:29:02] <megal0maniac> Is it supposed to be difficult to root an Android phone?
[11:29:16] <karlp> depends on the phone.
[11:29:41] <megal0maniac> karlp: Is it supposed to be easy once, and then be very difficult later on for no reason?
[11:29:59] <jadew> megal0maniac, if you updated the firmware, yeah
[11:30:09] <jadew> rooting is actually exploiting the OS
[11:30:18] <megal0maniac> jadew: Same bloody firmware :/
[11:30:21] <jadew> so they fix the bugs in the next versions
[11:34:10] <megal0maniac> I'm finding this to be very confusing and inconsistent...
[11:50:32] <megal0maniac> Finally! Fixed.
[11:50:47] <jadew> why don't you make your own? :P
[11:52:57] <jadew> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mellis/7106929309/
[11:53:57] <megal0maniac> Ooh I like that
[11:54:20] <megal0maniac> Might find a chinese Android phone and repurpose it, though
[11:54:23] <jadew> flamable, but stylish
[11:54:37] <megal0maniac> Looks quite dumb
[11:56:37] <OndraSter_> I am dumb
[11:56:40] <jadew> not if you dress like a douche, with a cap during the summer and a purse
[11:56:43] <OndraSter_> why am I moving capacitors from the bottom to the top on the smallest boards
[11:56:50] <OndraSter_> when I am not going to move the LDO?
[11:57:01] <megal0maniac> jadew: It's all relative? :P
[11:58:19] <jadew> I have a girlish phone
[11:58:23] <jadew> http://www.prepaymania.co.uk/capsta/photo2/samsung-galaxy-europa-gt-i5500-mobile-phone-vodafone-pay-as-you-go-d.jpg
[11:58:39] <jadew> got it for android development, for work and ended up using it full time
[12:01:52] <karlp> jadew: what version of android does that run, I was looking at that one myself
[12:02:18] <jadew> karlp, 2.2
[12:02:49] <jadew> the battery lasts a lot
[12:02:56] <karlp> oh, I must have been looking at a newer version in a similar shape.
[12:03:15] <jadew> possible, I got this one last year
[12:03:44] <karlp> I'm only looking at 4.0+
[12:05:33] <jadew> I don't really use the internet on my phone
[12:05:46] <jadew> I use it enough at home, so pretty much any phone is fine for me
[12:06:30] <megal0maniac> I actually prefer 2.3.4 in some areas
[12:06:43] <karlp> such as?
[12:07:07] <jadew> I would preffer this over any android phone anytime: http://www.iridium.com/products/IridiumExtremesatellitephone.aspx
[12:07:32] <megal0maniac> Well the features aren't that much different, and battery life seems to be better on 2.3.4
[12:07:56] <megal0maniac> This being on stock, of course
[12:09:44] <megal0maniac> Basically, I don't seem to have gained much having upgraded to 4
[12:11:07] <karlp> I kinda want a 4.x phone to make sure that it still works down the road.
[12:11:17] <karlp> well, that plus usb host.
[12:11:40] <megal0maniac> Had USB host on 2.3.4 :)
[12:11:47] <karlp> yeah, on certain phones
[12:11:54] <karlp> via a backported api that wasn't going to stay
[12:11:58] <karlp> screw that
[12:12:04] <OndraSter_> I want my (smart)phone to be:
[12:12:06] <OndraSter_> a) fast
[12:12:07] <OndraSter_> b) stable
[12:12:10] <OndraSter_> c) do not need any hackerys
[12:12:15] <OndraSter_> hackery/hackeries*
[12:12:22] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: So Android?
[12:12:40] <OndraSter_> so WP8
[12:12:42] <megal0maniac> (The hackeries are a feature, not a requirement :P)
[12:12:46] <OndraSter_> now WP7
[12:12:49] <OndraSter_> they are a requirement.
[12:13:15] <megal0maniac> Not for me
[12:13:21] <megal0maniac> But I took advantage anyway
[12:15:01] <jadew> OndraSter_, yeah, I want a WP as well, my previous one had w6 on it, I didn't need any root crap
[12:15:10] <OndraSter_> wm6?
[12:15:11] <OndraSter_> that is like
[12:15:13] <OndraSter_> 6 years old
[12:15:16] <OndraSter_> and nothing like WP
[12:15:19] <jadew> old phone
[12:15:26] <jadew> xperia x1
[12:15:32] <OndraSter_> ah
[12:15:35] <OndraSter_> well, WM != WP
[12:15:38] <OndraSter_> people forget about that
[12:15:57] <jadew> I haven't looked into it
[12:16:34] <OndraSter_> WP = more closer to iOS in terms of applications/stability. But it goes way beyond in user experience and such
[12:16:52] <OndraSter_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQZEkXCE_fY&feature=share
[12:16:53] <OndraSter_> this
[12:17:00] <OndraSter_> 2 days old video with upcoming WP8
[12:17:03] <jadew> might get one next month, I'm looking for a present for myself, for chirstmas
[12:17:08] <jadew> it's gonna be either a phone or a radio
[12:17:37] <karlp> radio?
[12:17:44] <OndraSter_> FM radio?
[12:17:44] <karlp> don't those come built into cars and phones these days?
[12:17:48] <OndraSter_> 1990 here I come
[12:17:52] <OndraSter_> karlp, not anymore :D
[12:17:59] <jadew> http://www.aorusa.com/receivers/ar8600mk2.html
[12:18:01] <OndraSter_> new chipsets don't have FM radios anymore
[12:18:15] <OndraSter_> nobody really uses FM radio in the phone anyway
[12:18:19] <OndraSter_> I used it once to see if it works :D
[12:18:21] <jadew> this one receives from 100kHz to 3Ghz
[12:18:25] <OndraSter_> yay
[12:18:27] <OndraSter_> you can listen to WiFi!
[12:18:37] <jadew> yep and satelittes
[12:18:43] <OndraSter_> AND ALIENS!
[12:19:10] <jadew> figured it could be useful if I ever plan to build a gps radio from scratch
[12:19:56] <jadew> or any kind of radio for that matter, cuz I could rely on this other one to receive everything
[12:20:43] <Kevin`> what bandwidth range does it do?
[12:21:41] <jadew> 100Khz to 3Ghz
[12:21:51] <Kevin`> no, that's not what I mean
[12:22:04] <jadew> for demodulation
[12:22:05] <Kevin`> what channel widths does it support
[12:22:05] <jadew> ?
[12:22:49] <jadew> from the description there: narrow FM, wide and narrow AM + standard modes
[12:23:06] <impulse> jadew: how much is that?
[12:23:25] <jadew> about 1.2k USD
[12:23:28] <OndraSter_> guh :)
[12:23:32] <OndraSter_> ugh
[12:24:41] <Kevin`> I would expect to only be using that for voice and for data traffic designed to work over voice channels
[12:25:23] <jadew> Kevin`, it also has an IF output so you can use SDR with a fixed center frequency on top of that and do whatever you like on the PC
[12:26:46] <Kevin`> just be aware it won't work for wifi for example, which has 20mhz-wide channels
[12:27:07] <Kevin`> (even if you could use the if output to software-decode the modulation)
[12:27:35] <jadew> yeah, I don't think the IF output is 20Mhz wide
[12:28:19] <jadew> that's a bit dissapointing, but thanks for the info
[12:28:51] <jadew> do you have other suggestions for a comparable radio that can do more?
[12:29:25] <jadew> I'm basically looking for a unit that can help me test stuff while I'm learning and I don't want to be like "oh, I need another super expensive radio for this thing"
[12:38:27] <jadew> lol OndraSter_, they are bashing iOS and android in that video
[12:39:15] <Kevin`> well of course they are, that's the whole reason for windows phone / windows 8's existance
[12:40:49] <jadew> it really is awesome tho
[12:41:24] <Kevin`> it's never going to do what I want, since it's just trying to compete with ios and stock android
[12:43:03] <Kevin`> I don't get how flippy pictures are supposed to convey useful information though
[12:43:20] <OndraSter_> jadew, making fun of it, yes
[12:46:44] <jadew> it somehow reminds me of that balmer video I linked a while ago
[12:46:48] <jadew> it's just the 2012 version
[12:47:29] <jadew> I'm sure it's gonna seem equaly as ridiculous 20 years from now
[12:47:51] <jadew> "and I can speak to my phone!"
[12:50:55] <OndraSter_> :D
[12:51:18] <OndraSter_> I like the motto "we didn't build phone for all of you. We built the phone for every one of you."
[12:51:32] <OndraSter_> because yes, live tiles ftw
[12:51:32] <Kevin`> do you? sounds pretty meaningless for me =p
[12:51:34] <OndraSter_> :D
[12:51:38] <jadew> lmfao, "here's the people I've been communicating with recently" and there was a picture of steve balmer in there haha
[12:51:51] <OndraSter_> jadew, it is all made with a lot of fun :P
[12:52:03] <OndraSter_> on the calendar tile he has "WEAR A GOOD SHIRT"
[12:52:16] <jadew> heh
[12:52:31] <OndraSter_> then in ... I forgot where it was, SMS? mail? he had something about ballmer asking him if he is doing the video today
[12:53:08] <Kevin`> that xbox music thing sounds kind of silly.. if you can stream songs, why would you buy them and have them available for.. drm'd streaming
[13:02:46] <OndraSter_> Kevin`, because xbox music pass = $10 per month
[13:02:52] <OndraSter_> for regular stream you need to upload them
[13:02:57] <OndraSter_> and find them on the internet first
[13:03:04] <megal0maniac> Totall just resigned
[13:03:05] <OndraSter_> no idea how in the US, but in the CZE downloading music is legal
[13:03:10] <megal0maniac> *Totally
[13:03:48] <Kevin`> OndraSter_: why would I buy music if I can't download it, that would be dumb
[13:04:30] <OndraSter_> well streaming has one issue for me
[13:04:34] <OndraSter_> I have got only 600MB FUP :)
[13:06:22] <Kevin`> so what you are paying for is the privilage to cache an encrypted copy of the song on your phone?
[13:07:10] <OndraSter_> wat
[13:07:23] <OndraSter_> you can either:
[13:07:29] <Kevin`> btw, it seems the netflix app needs hdcp
[13:07:34] <OndraSter_> legally buy it somewhere/download from wmewhere
[13:07:35] <Kevin`> that's kind of annoying
[13:07:41] <OndraSter_> and put it on your phone/on your skydrive
[13:07:46] <Kevin`> since it will never work in a vm
[13:07:51] <OndraSter_> OR
[13:07:56] <OndraSter_> get an xbox pass
[13:07:59] <OndraSter_> and stream anything you want
[13:08:02] <OndraSter_> without downloading anything
[13:08:16] <Kevin`> the video mentioned buying songs
[13:08:21] <OndraSter_> yes
[13:08:25] <OndraSter_> if you want to keep something
[13:08:38] <OndraSter_> and don't want to use bing/google.. :D
[13:08:51] <Kevin`> you are being contradictory
[13:09:02] <Kevin`> I suppose it doesn't matter, since I won't be getting a windows phone
[13:12:39] <jadew> I can't comment yet on windows, but android has some screwed up stuff
[13:12:52] <jadew> 1) most devices are root locked
[13:13:12] <Tom_itx> uproot them
[13:13:17] <jadew> 2) the documentation is generally incomplete
[13:13:29] <Kevin`> some android devices are unlockable. that's not the case for any other os, nor will it ever be
[13:13:39] <Kevin`> it's not ideal, but it's the only choice for now
[13:15:03] <jadew> I suppose every device is appealing for different reasons to different people
[13:15:33] <Kevin`> some people want to play with the cloud, and some want to get things done =p
[13:15:34] <jadew> I personally would have gone with windows mobile in the past because I was familiar with the API
[13:15:39] <jadew> now I don't know
[13:16:25] <jadew> Kevin`, well, generally speaking, when you want to get things done, you have to boot up windows :P
[13:18:35] <jadew> I remember watching an apple presentation, they were bashing microsoft, while in the background they were running a power point presentation
[13:20:06] <Kevin`> jadew: I have windows vms to run vertical apps, and they get used, yes, but it definitely can't do everything I want. and windows phone isn't as capable as real windows, let alone linux
[13:21:00] <Kevin`> (well, it's as capable as windows rt, but that's just kinda sad)
[13:21:50] <jadew> I can't speak for the new windows phone, however my windows mobile phone is still better than my android one, altho it's half a decade older
[13:22:26] <Kevin`> you must have some pretty basic/common requirements for a phone then
[13:23:03] <jadew> what could you ask from a phone that's not common?
[13:24:02] <Kevin`> phones have wifi and [a]gps, right? have it do a passive site survey
[13:24:17] <jadew> I don't know what's a passive site survey
[13:24:48] <Kevin`> does windows phone have a full keyboard option usable for ssh?
[13:25:11] <OndraSter_> the SSH app I have has extra popup keys for common stuff
[13:25:16] <OndraSter_> I couldn't find only `
[13:25:16] <jadew> Kevin`, my phone has a full keyboard by design, it slides out, it also has USB
[13:25:18] <Kevin`> most keyboards, even the default android one, are designed for testing
[13:25:25] <jadew> and can connect over SSH
[13:25:47] <Kevin`> even the hard keyboard on most phones is missing important keys some of the time like tab, ctrl, alt
[13:26:02] <jadew> they have soft switches for them tho
[13:26:03] <Kevin`> or escape for that matter
[13:26:39] <OndraSter_> the best keyboarded phone for SSH would be HTC TOuch Pro
[13:26:44] <OndraSter_> since it had EVERYTHING
[13:26:48] <jadew> about the wireless site survey, I'm sure it can be done from a windows mobile phone
[13:26:49] <OndraSter_> HTC TP2 lacks Tab
[13:26:50] <Kevin`> i'm suprised your phone even has a keyboard, apple's influence has almost eliminated even the texting keyboards
[13:27:00] <OndraSter_> Kevin`, that phone is before iP
[13:27:25] <jadew> yeah, it's a really old phone
[13:27:38] <Kevin`> jadew: it requires raw frame access + metadata to do properly, until recently you couldn't even do it from windows. some people still can't
[13:27:59] <jadew> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Black_X1i_in_landscape.JPG/300px-Black_X1i_in_landscape.JPG
[13:28:59] <Kevin`> so how do you send 'f6' with that keyboard, or ctrl+alt+p
[13:29:31] <jadew> you get soft switches from the onscreen keyboard, I don't think it has (f6) tho
[13:30:26] <jadew> so you're pretty much looking for a pc?
[13:30:58] <Kevin`> nah, just a mobile device that's not unnecessarily crippled to doing cloud stuff =p
[13:31:00] <jadew> I suppose apple is out of the picture, since it only has one mouse button :P
[13:31:16] <Kevin`> that, is, actually a problem
[13:31:21] <Kevin`> they make like it's supposed to work
[13:31:38] <Kevin`> but doing wierd finger incantations isn't exactly the same or as fast as a mouse button
[13:31:44] <Kevin`> why would I pay more to slow myself down
[13:32:14] <jadew> yeah, I don't really like the direction phones are taking, but who knows, maybe they'll turn out to be nice in the end
[13:32:21] <Kevin`> hah.
[13:32:43] <Kevin`> a major shift would be required for that
[13:33:00] <Kevin`> don't bet on it
[13:33:28] <Kevin`> however, pcs ending up like phones
[13:33:31] <Kevin`> I give about a 50% chance
[13:34:24] <jadew> I think in the near future people won't own PC's anymore, unless they actually did office work or things like that
[13:35:05] <jadew> most people will be satisfied with a tablet that they can use to read the paper, send e-mails, comment on facebook, control their home entertainment center and create their shopping list
[13:35:50] <jadew> however, thanks to the gamers, I think real PCs and parts for them will still be available for a long while at decent prices
[13:35:51] <Kevin`> well it's not like most people actually ever USED computers
[13:36:30] <jadew> yeah
[13:36:47] <jadew> for most people the PC is actually a barrier between them and what they actually want to do
[13:36:49] <Kevin`> a tablet isn't as good as a pc even for those basic tasks, and it's more expensive. I think that one might not happen either
[13:36:55] <jadew> while a tablet kinda removes that barrier
[13:37:14] <jadew> they have tablets that dock and get a keyboard
[13:37:26] <r00t|home> apple PR department?
[13:37:36] <jadew> so you can sit at the desk to write an e-mail, then take it to the toilet to read the paper while having a dump
[13:37:42] <Kevin`> jadew: sure, that cost like $1500 to do properly, and you end up with a really crappy pc
[13:37:59] <Kevin`> do people actually read while taking a dump? try it sometime, it's silly
[13:38:41] <jadew> Kevin`, I do, got used to it since I moved in with my g/f, she lets her iPad in the bathroom
[13:38:57] <jadew> so I started using it to read docs
[13:39:05] <jadew> then I wanted a tablet of my own :P
[13:40:06] <jadew> she got me the thinkpad one (which can do the docking thing as well), has a pen, 2 USB ports and HDMI (pretty bad ass)
[13:40:11] <OndraSter_> <Kevin`> jadew: sure, that cost like $1500 to do properly, and you end up with a really crappy pc
[13:40:13] <OndraSter_> surface rt?
[13:40:21] <OndraSter_> $599 for 32GB one with touch keyboard :)
[13:40:32] <OndraSter_> touch = real keyboard with some capacitive sensing
[13:40:37] <OndraSter_> check videos
[13:40:44] <OndraSter_> it works good
[13:41:00] <OndraSter_> extra $10 for type cover
[13:41:02] <OndraSter_> with hardware keys
[13:41:06] <Kevin`> OndraSter_: I meant for a dockable device. surface is a bit unique, but ultimately the rt variant is still a crappy pc that can't do anything
[13:41:12] <jadew> Kevin`: http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/62/72/003926/thinkpad-tablet-keyboard-case.jpg
[13:41:18] <jadew> this one has F keys as well :P
[13:41:27] <OndraSter_> :D
[13:43:07] <Kevin`> jadew: I probably would have gotten one of the x2#0 tablets, i've used arm and atom before, and wouldn't like it if I can avoid it
[13:43:24] <Kevin`> although there's some outlier arm devices with really awesome screens :/
[13:54:09] <xata> sup. not that avr-specific question, but i don't know other place to ask - what are standart baud rates for usb 1.0?
[13:54:31] <OndraSter_> baud rates?
[13:54:35] <xata> yep
[13:54:45] <xata> hi, OndraSter_
[13:54:51] <OndraSter_> only usb 2.0 supports usb cdc btw
[13:54:55] <OndraSter_> officially that is
[13:54:55] <OndraSter_> hi
[13:55:26] <OndraSter_> that's why V-USB won't run CDC on linux
[13:55:26] <xata> OndraSter_: i have ft232. what to set an adequate bitbang baudrate to talk with my uC
[13:55:34] <OndraSter_> ft232 is usb 2.0
[13:55:38] <xata> *want
[13:56:03] <jadew> xata, it's using a 12mhz clock?
[13:56:08] <xata> i am on linux, using libftdi
[13:56:56] <xata> jadew: i donno, but in datasheet it says internal 48mhz. it is on factoru defaults for ft232rl
[13:57:18] <xata> not in datasheet, in application note for setting baudrate
[13:58:06] <xata> A Baud rate for the FT232R, FT2232 (UART mode) or FT232B is generated using the chips
[13:58:09] <xata> internal 48MHz clock. This is input to Baud rate generator circuitry where it is then divided by 16
[13:58:13] <xata> and fed into a prescaler as a 3MHz reference clock. This 3MHz reference clock is then divided
[13:58:15] <xata> down to provide the required Baud rate for the device's on chip UART.
[13:58:23] <OndraSter_> I was running 2MBaud with ft232rl
[13:58:31] <OndraSter_> and I often do
[13:59:27] <xata> OndraSter_: ok. than i have to say 2MBaud to ftdi_set_baudrate?
[13:59:43] <OndraSter_> no idea
[13:59:52] <OndraSter_> I use hyper terminal or putty
[13:59:59] <xata> i mean - i need an integer. alsa maybe somebody tried to use bitbang?
[14:03:55] <jadew> xata: http://pastebin.com/BXttDS1s
[14:04:09] <jadew> this should be the baudrates that will give you 0 error at 48Mhz
[14:05:33] <xata> jadew: big thank to you, good sir
[14:05:37] <jadew> np
[14:06:08] <jadew> you'll have to make sure whatever you're communicating with has 0 error as well at that baud rate
[14:06:41] <jadew> if you'd run your target microcontroller from a 12Mhz clock, you should be fine with most of those
[14:07:09] <jadew> I usually go for the 125000 one
[14:07:37] <jadew> I found it's used in my voip phone as well
[15:18:07] <OndraSter_> running USB data lines below LDO - good or bad idea?
[16:15:09] <OndraSter_> megal0maniac_afk,
[16:15:10] <OndraSter_> I have just
[16:15:13] <OndraSter_> done
[16:15:15] <OndraSter_> xboard coco
[16:15:19] <OndraSter_> as
[16:15:21] <OndraSter_> SINGLE LOADED BOARD
[16:24:39] <dofidum> my isp mkii's led keeps going from green to blinking orange and back again, resetting the board as it goes green... what does that mean?
[16:30:34] <OndraSter_> the only issue is..
[16:30:34] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2sh6z
[16:30:41] <OndraSter_> I can not fit all the labels! :(
[17:02:52] <NTQ> Hi guys. Is there a C function like micros() for arduino which gives me absolute timer value from the beginnig of execution?
[17:03:33] <NTQ> I should mention that I use an ATXMega128A1
[17:04:40] <OndraSter_> well
[17:04:47] <OndraSter_> not that I know of :)
[17:04:50] <OndraSter_> check arduino's source
[17:04:51] <OndraSter_> how it works
[17:05:52] <OndraSter_> also, ATXMEGA ROCKS!
[17:05:52] <NTQ> hm... well... I don't want to read that source ^^
[17:05:56] <OndraSter_> heh
[17:06:01] <OndraSter_> what is the resolution of that timer?
[17:06:15] <OndraSter_> btw I will be porting/making compatible arduino for xmega
[17:06:16] <NTQ> micro seconds
[17:14:03] <specing> OndraSter_: WHAT
[17:14:08] <OndraSter_> xboard yo
[17:14:08] <specing> OndraSter_: you can't be serious
[17:14:12] <specing> you're drunk
[17:14:13] <OndraSter_> if I rewrite it:
[17:14:14] <specing> go home
[17:14:16] <OndraSter_> a) it will not be java
[17:14:21] <OndraSter_> b) it will not be Processing
[17:14:37] <OndraSter_> c) it will be just set of libraries and gcc with some custom .NET/Mono application
[17:15:30] <specing> .NET
[17:15:38] <specing> How is that better?
[17:15:45] <OndraSter_> because it is not Sun
[17:15:51] <specing> Oh you mean the ide will be in .NET?
[17:15:51] <OndraSter_> and it does not run as shit
[17:15:54] <OndraSter_> yes
[17:16:01] <OndraSter_> you will still be able to use regular gcc
[17:16:02] <specing> How about C++ with QT4?
[17:16:03] <OndraSter_> if you want
[17:16:08] <OndraSter_> I am sorry, but:
[17:16:12] <OndraSter_> a) C(++) is awful to work with
[17:16:16] <OndraSter_> b) QT too
[17:18:09] <inkjetunito> i found Qt quite nice to work with. it's quite heavy though
[17:18:18] <OndraSter_> also how is QT better than .NET
[17:18:20] <OndraSter_> when you need Qt libs
[17:18:35] <OndraSter_> C# is 1000 times easier to work with and manage the code
[17:18:49] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: .NET isn't portable
[17:18:53] <OndraSter_> Mono
[17:21:52] <inkjetunito> heh. Qt was quite comfortable, but the "hello world"ish app i quickly made is the second largest process on the system now :D
[17:21:59] <OndraSter_> lol
[17:22:12] <OndraSter_> I don't like C++
[17:22:47] <OndraSter_> I prefer managed code - much easier to maintain, much easier to work with
[17:22:54] <OndraSter_> C++ is too "low"
[17:23:29] <OndraSter_> also there is no proper IDE for C++ for linux
[17:23:34] <OndraSter_> even for windows VS2012 is not as good as for C#
[17:24:04] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: you're going to write an ide for microcontroller development?
[17:24:12] <OndraSter_> something as small as arduino
[17:24:14] <inkjetunito> -development
[17:24:24] <OndraSter_> I would directly use AS6
[17:24:26] <OndraSter_> but no AS6 on linux
[17:24:29] <OndraSter_> or mac
[17:25:10] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: well, what ever works. it can't be too heavy even if it was python
[17:25:17] <OndraSter_> OMG PYTHON
[17:25:25] <OndraSter_> python is for lazy people who can not press shift
[17:25:27] <OndraSter_> and do { }
[17:25:35] <jnd> python + gtk
[17:25:58] <jnd> I have to press alt for those :p
[17:26:00] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: i don't get the python reference
[17:26:08] <OndraSter_> inkjetunito, python uses tabs instead of { }
[17:26:16] <OndraSter_> jnd, I have to press altgr for those :D
[17:26:25] <inkjetunito> aahh, shift for the braces
[17:26:31] <jnd> I know, czech kbd
[17:26:46] <OndraSter_> (don't tell me that you are using czech kbd too)
[17:26:52] <jnd> ofc
[17:27:08] <OndraSter_> I am actually sometimes using English layout, usually when I am doing something in english
[17:27:11] <OndraSter_> writing a letter or something
[17:27:14] <OndraSter_> (not IRC)
[17:27:18] <inkjetunito> german and swedish/finnish layouts suck aswell
[17:27:20] <OndraSter_> because it switches dictionary to english :D
[17:27:41] <OndraSter_> inkjetunito, my tablet pc has german keyboard description and I am using czech kbd in windows :D
[17:27:41] <jnd> I don't like switching layouts so I use the national one
[17:28:04] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: german mac keyboard is even worse than the pc one
[17:28:11] <OndraSter_> impossibru!
[17:29:06] <jnd> well for asm programming it's OK and you have ; right under esc which I like
[17:29:16] <OndraSter_> wait
[17:29:18] <OndraSter_> you are czech?
[17:29:30] <jnd> indeed
[17:29:34] <OndraSter_> ...
[17:29:39] <OndraSter_> I thought you were just joking :D
[17:30:04] <jnd> I'm serious
[17:32:23] <jnd> I'm building Intel 4004 system, right now there is AVR for generating the two phase clock but it will be soon replaces by CMOS monostable chips as it's too modern :p
[17:32:34] <OndraSter_> heh
[17:32:38] <OndraSter_> get the oldest AVR you will find
[17:32:40] <OndraSter_> at89 :)
[17:33:00] <jnd> at89 is '51 stuff
[17:33:05] <OndraSter_> oh
[17:33:33] <jnd> Actually I have 89s52 there as serial programmable flash program memory
[17:33:45] <OndraSter_> I have got here bunch of 8051s, 8031 and Z80
[17:34:31] <jnd> AVR don't have the simple parallel verify mode anymore
[17:35:40] <jnd> some time ago I played with 8048s, icluding Tesla ones
[17:35:46] <OndraSter_> yay
[17:36:01] <OndraSter_> yay for NMOS!
[17:36:12] <OndraSter_> on monday I had to figure out how does CMOS work
[17:36:16] <OndraSter_> and make circuit from it
[17:36:21] <OndraSter_> it was simple.
[17:36:25] <OndraSter_> I needed two examples :D
[17:36:31] <jnd> that's actually reasonable chip but the 4004 seems like PIC with all the single accumulator work
[17:36:48] <OndraSter_> (nobody likes PIC after they try AVR)
[17:37:11] <jnd> well it's fun challenge to program these historic beasts
[17:37:17] <OndraSter_> hehe
[17:37:31] <OndraSter_> I would rather do something with 7400 series logic
[17:37:36] <OndraSter_> just like DFPGA :)
[17:37:44] <OndraSter_> http://blog.notdot.net/2012/10/Build-your-own-FPGA
[17:39:26] <OndraSter_> ugh
[17:39:26] <OndraSter_> http://www.miss-it.cz/miss/347/
[17:39:31] <OndraSter_> this girl wants to be Miss IT
[17:39:36] <OndraSter_> she has got weird face.
[17:40:23] <jnd> The first one is actually great http://www.miss-it.cz/miss/170/ look at that VHDL!
[17:40:50] <Steffanx> lies!
[17:58:02] <OndraSter_> jnd, I much prefer this one http://www.miss-it.cz/miss/263/
[17:58:05] <OndraSter_> because redhead.
[17:58:33] <Steffanx> but Java … :P
[17:58:43] <OndraSter_> where
[17:58:58] <OndraSter_> oh
[17:58:59] <OndraSter_> there
[17:59:05] <OndraSter_> I haven't browsed from her photos
[17:59:22] <OndraSter_> damn she is 20
[17:59:29] <OndraSter_> I should go visit her when I am in Brno again
[17:59:40] <Steffanx> Have fun
[18:00:09] <jnd> Java and Apple? meh
[18:02:35] <Steffanx> Who made that website? Apple nebo Android is like Google vs iOS :P
[18:08:52] <jnd> ye, questions are lame
[18:18:39] <OndraSter_> hmm
[18:18:43] <OndraSter_> I don't think I will transform this
[18:18:43] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/2shR4
[18:18:47] <OndraSter_> into single loaded board :P
[18:20:04] <OndraSter_> it is tiny board
[18:20:13] <OndraSter_> 46x22mm
[18:23:28] <OndraSter_> also I will probably remove the dog/puppy and cat from the boards
[18:23:37] <OndraSter_> I don't want to be sued for using somebody's pictures.
[18:23:40] <OndraSter_> and I can not draw.
[18:32:32] <specing> \o/ Bus error
[19:04:40] <Rami> Hello.. How to send digital data over an analog wave ?? or in other expression how to communicate between tow microcontrollers using analog waves? Please help me :(
[19:05:22] <forrestv> Rami, read through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_modulation
[19:06:20] <forrestv> Rami, ASK is probably simplest... a sine wave means 1, lack of it means 0
[19:08:54] <Rami> forrestv, thanks for help me. I've some theory information but I 'd like to know how it can done practically..
[19:10:43] <forrestv> Rami, are you sending the "analog wave" over radio..? or just a wire? or what? why?
[19:11:37] <Rami> the problem is: I want to send data from AVR to an other wirelessely but the distance between them is very long
[19:12:39] <Rami> I've tried rf modules but the signal was bad depending of the distance
[19:16:52] <Rami> and the environment of the experiment is very complex it has a very thick walls and a very long distances
[19:19:08] <Splats> most RF mofuled are HF which tend to have short distance
[19:19:19] <Splats> try finding/.building something in the shortwave band?
[19:19:26] <Splats> slow comms, but longer
[19:21:54] <Rami> I've tried but I don't know how to modulate the digital into analog
[20:17:02] <rue_house> heh
[23:03:31] <CrownWheel> Anybody here ever build the FreeRTOS demo for Atmega323 or 328?
[23:05:11] <CrownWheel> Atmel Studio 6 is (rightly) throwing "undeclared" errors for some registers (maybe all registers). Is the IDE expected to be aware of chip-specific symbols?
[23:22:58] <Casper> any smps expert here? I need help to debug this smps, the more I investigate, the more painfull is my headache... Anyone willing to step by step help me to debug it before I end up getting insane?
[23:35:29] <skorket> If I've set a pin change interrupt but the pin changes state in a region where interrupts are disabled, will the interrupt fire after exiting the disabled region?
[23:54:28] <Casper> skorket: depend which interrupt... global interrupt do not turn off individual interrupt, they get "queued" until the global get enabled again
[23:55:00] <skorket> like I said, it's the pin change interrupt
[23:55:14] <skorket> but what happens if there are multiple pin change interrupts, do they all get queued?
[23:55:59] <Casper> only 1 of each interrupt
[23:56:12] <Casper> really, it set a flag when one interrupt happend
[23:56:17] <Casper> so it's not a real queue
[23:56:34] <Casper> there is no counter
[23:56:49] <skorket> Casper, can you direct me to where it says this in the datasheet?
[23:56:55] <Casper> as for the order of interrupt, it depend on the vector table, it get executed from first to last...
[23:57:05] <Casper> probably in the interrupt section