#avr | Logs for 2012-10-27

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[00:20:16] * megal0maniac forgot to go afk :/
[00:28:50] <jadew> do you guys know of any free software that can be used to quickly find the pinout of components?
[00:29:08] <jadew> like... you have a transistor in your hand, you type the part number, boom
[00:29:15] <jadew> you get the pinout and a few specs
[00:31:47] <Xark> jadew: I assume, not a web browser? :)
[00:31:58] <jadew> yeah :P
[00:33:32] <Xark> jadew: This may be worth $3, but only some common parts. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/circuit-playground/id492487671?mt=8
[00:34:14] <jadew> yeah, but I'd have to use it on my ipad or iphone, which I don't have
[00:34:26] <Xark> jadew: You want for Windows?
[00:34:36] <jadew> yeah, easier to type as well
[00:34:52] <jadew> there must be a project out there
[00:34:53] <Xark> jadew: I recommend a good bookmark in a browser in that case. :)
[00:35:02] <jadew> hehe
[00:35:16] <Xark> jadew: You are familiar with http://octopart.com/
[00:35:17] <jadew> might set out to build one if I can't find an already made one
[00:35:33] <jadew> yeah, but it's not the same
[00:35:40] <jadew> you have to open the pdf
[00:36:28] <Xark> jadew: This link is handy for 74XX TTL parts -> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_iKMAYU3t1LNlRZblFBdjZlams/edit?pli=1
[00:37:11] <jadew> nice
[01:52:40] <jadew> heh, what do you know.. bit potentiometers and aligator clips can start resonating with the ambiental noise
[01:52:50] <jadew> I couldn't figure where a wave was showing up from
[01:53:08] <jadew> all the important points in the circuit were perfectly clear, both with the function generator on and off
[01:53:22] <jadew> *big potentiometers
[01:53:42] <jadew> the wave I was getting was huge, changed to a smaller pot and everything is fine
[02:52:01] <jadew> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3081
[02:52:11] <jadew> not very useful for my project, but note worthy
[02:53:44] <RLa> good idea
[02:57:17] <OndraSter> bsdfox_, this IS USB chip
[02:57:21] <OndraSter> HW USB
[02:57:29] <OndraSter> but all the structures and management etc is big
[03:14:28] <jadew> neat, I farnell won't accept another delivery address than the one associated with the credit card
[03:14:37] <jadew> that's freaking stupid
[03:15:08] <RikusW> they probably do that for security reasons
[03:15:10] <jadew> I'd have to drive 200Km to to receive the package
[03:15:40] <jadew> now I'm back at square 1. no main chip, no crystal
[03:15:41] <jadew> damn it
[03:16:48] <RLa> can't you negotiate with UPS or whoever delivers it
[03:17:28] <jadew> how? "Hey UPS, you're gonna receive a package that's supposed to go to some dude in some city, I'm that dude, bring it to me in this other city"
[03:17:42] <RLa> yeah, why not
[03:17:59] <jadew> don't think they'll do it
[03:18:05] <RLa> so far UPS has always called me before delivery
[03:18:25] <RLa> just say you can't receive there
[03:19:36] <jadew> don't know, sounds troublesome
[03:20:03] <jadew> it's so hard to get a hold of this chip :/
[03:20:11] <RLa> what chip it is
[03:20:20] <jadew> ad9834cruz
[03:20:38] <RLa> hm, can't you make another farnell account
[03:21:10] <jadew> I'm sure it won't work, when they'll charge your credit card, they will check the info against your bank records
[03:21:34] <jadew> that's another thing that ticks me off, they never heard of paypal?
[03:21:36] <OndraSter> I sampled ad9834 :)
[03:21:36] <OndraSter> cruz
[03:21:47] <OndraSter> and don!t you need 25MHz xtal? Or do I remember it wrong?
[03:21:49] <jadew> I'm not entirely confident in giving them my credit card number
[03:22:00] <RLa> why is this chip so popular?
[03:22:04] <OndraSter> actually oscillator, not xtal
[03:22:10] <jadew> OndraSter, you need 25 for the 9833
[03:22:11] <OndraSter> RLa, it is not expensive and does 75MHz
[03:22:17] <OndraSter> I thought it had internal PLL
[03:22:25] <RLa> can't you obtain temp credit/debit card?
[03:22:25] <OndraSter> meh, probably different chip
[03:22:41] <RLa> i usually use that when ordering for myself
[03:22:48] <jadew> no mention of pll in the datasheet
[03:23:00] <OndraSter> ok then I remember it wrong :)
[03:23:03] <RLa> it expiries in 2 months
[03:23:12] <jadew> RLa, I have a card just for that, but still, I avoid giving it away to any site
[03:23:17] <OndraSter> oh no, WE ARE BEING FOLLOWED!
[03:23:32] <jadew> OndraSter, remember when steam got hacked a few months ago? :)
[03:23:36] <OndraSter> yes
[03:23:41] <RLa> "does 75MHz" <- what functionality?
[03:23:48] <OndraSter> I did not opt for saving the card stuff
[03:23:49] <jadew> RLa, function generator
[03:23:51] <OndraSter> yep
[03:23:52] <RLa> oh
[03:24:00] <OndraSter> sine/square/triangle (or was it saw?)
[03:24:06] <jadew> no saw
[03:24:10] <jadew> it can't do ramps
[03:24:12] <OndraSter> triangle it was!
[03:24:32] <RLa> hm
[03:24:37] <OndraSter> also my card expired in may
[03:24:44] <OndraSter> so I was clear of any leaks :P
[03:24:48] <RLa> i remember generating triangle with opamps last time i needed it
[03:24:49] <jadew> oh, I just realized something...
[03:24:54] <jadew> I was planning to use analog pots
[03:25:07] <OndraSter> you would need stereo ones
[03:25:14] <OndraSter> one for signal, one for reading it back
[03:25:16] <jadew> but then, when I'll switch to square I won't be able to fix the gain and attenuation automatically
[03:25:19] <jadew> to make it match the same levels
[03:25:24] <OndraSter> nope
[03:25:44] <jadew> since it does sine and triangle at 0.6V while square is full voltage
[03:25:58] <OndraSter> I had there two quad opamps and analog mux
[03:26:07] <OndraSter> that helped me to get around all these issues
[03:26:10] <RLa> btw, is there hw to generate pwm with 8-bit control without analog parts?
[03:26:18] <OndraSter> atmega?
[03:26:26] <jadew> OndraSter, I know, I was planning to use stereo ones
[03:26:33] <RLa> i thought about some shift register and counter
[03:26:47] <jadew> was actually quite happy today when I realized I bought a bunch of them a while ago, even if I didn't needed them
[03:26:55] <OndraSter> two shift registers, comparer and counter
[03:27:02] <RLa> i need more pwm channels than atmega chips have
[03:27:12] <OndraSter> one shift
[03:27:24] <RLa> yes, one should be enough
[03:27:30] <jadew> OndraSter, so how did you get around them?
[03:27:32] <OndraSter> RLa, my atxmega has... hmm
[03:27:32] <OndraSter> let me count it :)
[03:27:42] <OndraSter> 24 channels
[03:27:44] <OndraSter> 16bit
[03:27:58] <RLa> or maybe one can come up with clever way to multiplex pwm
[03:28:14] <RLa> oh wait, i just have an idea
[03:28:24] <RLa> OndraSter, you mean io pins? :)
[03:28:31] <OndraSter> no, 24 PWM channels
[03:28:38] <jadew> what does an analog multiplexer do?
[03:28:45] <RLa> what chips is that? :0
[03:28:48] <jadew> (I never used multiplexers, don't really know what they do)
[03:28:52] <OndraSter> the higher xmega has 32 I think
[03:29:05] <OndraSter> RLa, atxmega a3u series
[03:29:10] <OndraSter> actually 22, two are taken by USB :P
[03:29:26] <RLa> jadew, it's array of switches, singe switch is activated at time and connects an input to an ouput
[03:29:35] <RLa> the ouput
[03:29:37] <Lt_Lemming> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bit6dEtPW0 <---- new premises for HSBNE
[03:29:46] <OndraSter> jadew, do you know digital mux?
[03:29:50] <jadew> no
[03:29:52] <OndraSter> this is the same thing, but for analog
[03:29:53] <OndraSter> oh
[03:30:02] <RLa> jadew, good if you want lots of adc inputs
[03:30:13] <OndraSter> ... xmega has 16!
[03:30:17] <OndraSter> where two can run at the same time :P
[03:30:33] <OndraSter> also hardware DAC!
[03:31:06] <OndraSter> beautiful chips those are
[03:31:21] <OndraSter> http://myxboard.net/
[03:31:52] <RLa> aww, all smd
[03:32:20] <OndraSter> that's why xboard exists :P
[03:32:26] <jadew> OndraSter, ok, I know what multiplexers are now :P
[03:32:37] <RLa> you also offer soldered boards?
[03:32:46] <jadew> so you attenuated your square before feeding it to the op amp?
[03:32:47] <OndraSter> only soldered ones
[03:33:14] <OndraSter> jadew, I don't remember much really... but I had a way
[03:33:24] <OndraSter> and I never finished updated schematics
[03:33:33] <jadew> yeah, I think that's the best way to do it
[03:33:45] <RLa> how much they cost?
[03:33:52] <jadew> I have a couple of digital switches
[03:33:58] <jadew> I need to test their bandwidth
[03:34:13] <OndraSter> RLa, 20eur + 5 eur shipping for the xboard coco - with atxmega256a3u
[03:34:37] <OndraSter> aka 256kB flash, 16kB RAM, bazilion features
[03:35:18] <RLa> how one programs them?
[03:35:24] <OndraSter> either USB bootloader
[03:35:31] <OndraSter> or via AVRISP mkII/JTAG
[03:35:35] <OndraSter> PDI/ISP
[03:35:38] <OndraSter> er
[03:35:40] <OndraSter> PDI/JTAG
[03:35:56] <RLa> hm
[03:36:06] <OndraSter> avrisp mkII, avr dragon, jtagice mkii, jtagice 3
[03:36:09] <OndraSter> avr one
[03:36:33] <jadew> OndraSter, any chance you can sample another one of those? I'll buy it off of you
[03:36:42] <jadew> they don't send samples to romania
[03:37:07] <OndraSter> hmm I don't like sampling for my own needs, I sample only for real commercial projects :/
[03:37:13] <OndraSter> and I have wasted all my possible addresses :D
[03:37:23] <jadew> heh, np
[03:37:34] <jadew> I really don't know where to get this damn chip from
[03:37:34] <OndraSter> farnell does not have them?
[03:37:46] <jadew> they do, but as I was saying earlier, they are retarded
[03:37:48] <OndraSter> I know that mouser does not have any ADI parts
[03:37:54] <OndraSter> they are
[03:38:01] <jadew> they want to ship only to the address associated with my credit card
[03:38:04] <jadew> which is in a different city
[03:38:11] <OndraSter> oh
[03:38:20] <OndraSter> I didn't know that credit card gives them address ?!
[03:38:38] <jadew> it doesn't, but the address gets verified by the bank
[03:38:41] <jadew> they send the address in
[03:38:42] <OndraSter> oh
[03:38:46] <jadew> the bank says if it's ok or not
[03:38:49] <OndraSter> ugh
[03:38:54] <RLa> btw, i think farnell explicitly asked me for delivery address
[03:39:05] <RikusW> jadew, change your address at the bank ?
[03:39:20] <jadew> RLa, they are asking me as well, but it has to be the address of the card
[03:39:29] <jadew> RikusW, I'm living in rent currently
[03:39:50] <jadew> can't change my address to this
[03:39:59] <RikusW> can't the bank add that as an optional address ?
[03:40:18] <jadew> don't know
[03:40:28] <jadew> I'm gonna have my mom order it for me, from digikey usa
[03:40:41] <OndraSter> your mum is in the US?
[03:40:44] <jadew> and have her send it to me in a letter
[03:40:47] <jadew> yeah
[03:40:52] <OndraSter> oh
[03:40:53] <OndraSter> nice
[03:40:55] <OndraSter> I want that too
[03:41:17] <OndraSter> because Mouser are greedy bastards who don''t have any ADI or Altera parts :(
[03:42:39] <jadew> it's still late in there, but I'm gonna call her later
[03:43:05] <jadew> this is damn stupid, not being able to buy a chip in europe, at least not with out paying $60 for shipping, as digikey is asking
[03:43:11] <jadew> altho they are shipping them from europe
[03:43:53] <OndraSter> digikey ships from them Europe?!
[03:44:02] <jadew> it would appear so
[03:44:04] <OndraSter> them from
[03:44:05] <OndraSter> huh
[03:44:11] <OndraSter> I thought they shipped everything from the US
[03:44:16] <jadew> Amadiro, said he's getting his digikey orders quite fast
[03:44:23] <jadew> http://digikey.no/
[03:44:31] <jadew> that can only mean they have an european stock somewhere
[03:44:35] <OndraSter> hmm interesting
[03:44:39] <OndraSter> mouser ships from the US
[03:44:43] <OndraSter> and it takes like 3 days
[03:44:49] <OndraSter> I had fedex ring the bell in less than 36 hours
[03:44:50] <jadew> oh really?
[03:44:52] <OndraSter> shipped from texas
[03:44:57] <OndraSter> came to the edge of Prague
[03:44:58] <jadew> then maybe they don't have an european stock
[03:45:18] <jadew> I have an ashtray with prague :P
[03:45:19] <OndraSter> digikey does only fedex/ups
[03:45:21] <OndraSter> heh
[03:45:26] <OndraSter> I hate cigarettes :P
[03:45:34] <jadew> me too, trying to quit
[03:46:18] <jadew> ok.. so the bottom line is that I have to halt this project for about two weeks +, till I get the chip and the crystal
[03:46:29] <jadew> I guess I can do all the other stuff tho
[03:47:18] <OndraSter> :)
[03:47:20] <OndraSter> board for example
[03:47:27] <OndraSter> one off project I presume?
[03:47:31] <OndraSter> mornin megal0maniac
[03:47:31] <megal0maniac> nrf24l01+ works :)
[03:47:34] <OndraSter> heh
[03:47:38] <megal0maniac> 'lo OndraSter
[03:47:39] <OndraSter> congrats
[03:47:42] <OndraSter> used some lib?
[03:47:51] <megal0maniac> Yeah, Mirf lib for Arduino
[03:47:57] <jadew> OndraSter, yeah, I'm gonna test the other components and start doing the board and the case
[03:48:05] <megal0maniac> I just wanted something quick and dirty. Range is bloody impressive
[03:48:14] <megal0maniac> Better than wifi
[03:48:36] <OndraSter> https://twitter.com/peeweeherman/status/261984107377074176/photo/1
[03:48:36] <OndraSter> lol
[03:48:38] <OndraSter> nice
[03:49:24] <RikusW> megal0maniac: which board did you connect the nrf to ?
[03:49:46] <RikusW> and what kind of range are you talking about ? 100m ?
[03:50:22] * RikusW got 4 still unused nrf24l01+ boards here
[03:50:32] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'm testing it indoors, where wifi won't reach the next room reliably. Using Arduino Uno and Teensy
[03:50:38] <OndraSter> RikusW, so do I
[03:50:47] <megal0maniac> Will set up my laptop quickly and check LoS outside
[03:51:15] <OndraSter> does it measure the signal quality automatically or do you just check if it receives the data?
[03:51:29] <RikusW> zlog
[03:55:18] <megal0maniac> Meh. About 15m LoS. But non-ideal conditions
[03:55:31] <megal0maniac> It cares surprisingly little about walls, though
[03:55:53] <megal0maniac> No error checking of any kind. Don't even know what data rate I'm transmitting at :P
[03:57:02] <megal0maniac> Transmitting random numbers and printing them on an LCD as they're received
[03:57:22] <OndraSter> eh
[03:57:39] <megal0maniac> specing: I got mail
[03:57:43] <megal0maniac> TI eStore: Your Order Items have been Shipped.
[03:57:48] <OndraSter> yay
[03:57:54] <specing> WTF
[03:58:08] <specing> megal0maniac: when was the estimated ship date?
[03:58:22] <OndraSter> I have got estimated ship date somewhere in december:D
[03:58:24] <megal0maniac> Um... Early november?
[03:58:25] <OndraSter> (had)
[03:58:33] <megal0maniac> Probably about a week early
[03:58:40] <megal0maniac> They're using FedEx even :)
[03:58:48] <megal0maniac> Not hong kong post or similar...
[03:58:59] <specing> 0.o
[03:59:03] <OndraSter> ye fedex
[03:59:09] <OndraSter> TI uses only fedex
[03:59:18] <specing> so they probably have like $100 of expenses per one of us
[03:59:24] <OndraSter> expect on monday morning a call from fedex :)
[03:59:28] <OndraSter> yep
[04:02:32] <OndraSter> damnit, where is "order history" on my.TI?
[04:03:32] <specing> hahaha
[04:03:38] <specing> estore.ti.com
[04:03:40] <OndraSter> http://www.ti.com/product/adc08d502
[04:03:46] <OndraSter> DAT ADC!
[04:04:14] <OndraSter> why isn't the stellaris launchpad shown in order status?!
[04:05:11] <specing> no idea
[04:09:00] <megal0maniac> Est. ship date is 09/11
[04:09:25] <megal0maniac> Actual ship date is yesterday :)
[04:09:26] <specing> that means 11.09.2012
[04:09:38] <megal0maniac> Well, 11/09
[04:09:44] <megal0maniac> But I fixed it
[04:09:47] <specing> So I hope I get it on like 20.11?
[04:10:11] <specing> 11 is the month, 09 is the day
[04:10:19] <megal0maniac> I know :)
[04:10:25] <megal0maniac> dd/mm/yyyy
[04:10:36] <megal0maniac> That's the format which makes sense...
[04:11:38] * RikusW agrees with megal0maniac
[04:11:56] * megal0maniac is always right ;)
[04:11:59] <RikusW> mm/dd ? wtf ?! who invented that
[04:12:17] <megal0maniac> Americans, I think
[04:12:20] * RikusW feels confused...
[04:13:04] <tld> RikusW: It's insane, we all know it, but the US won't move on from it. :/
[04:13:07] <RikusW> hmm so the twin towers actually fell on 9 November :-P...
[04:13:22] <tld> much in the same way that they're worried about getting confused over metric I think.
[04:13:26] <RikusW> just like they still cling to inches
[04:13:44] <RikusW> metric is the _only_ way ;)
[04:13:57] <megal0maniac> Because base 10 :)
[04:14:03] <RikusW> though mils are quite convenient for pcb design
[04:14:19] <tld> seems to me like the rest of the world is trying to invite the US to come play, and the US just going "NO! I've got *my own* ball! So there!"
[04:14:34] <RikusW> antique ball...
[04:14:34] <megal0maniac> Imerial doesn't have a base
[04:14:48] <RikusW> +p
[04:15:12] <RikusW> megal0maniac: it does, multiple bases :-P
[04:15:14] * tld needs coffee though, so off for a bit.
[04:15:26] <tld> "All your base are belong to us!"
[04:15:26] <megal0maniac> You can't change the base :P
[04:15:28] <tld> anyways, coffee.
[04:15:43] <megal0maniac> "All your bases are belong to US" :P
[04:15:43] <RikusW> megal0maniac: a different base for each unit :-P
[04:16:03] * RikusW prefers base 10 or 16
[04:18:03] * Xark is old enough he remembers being taught metric in US school and the law was all new road signs needed to have both units (and most signs were already replaced with both). Then Ronald Reagan happened...
[04:18:42] <RikusW> and ?
[04:18:50] <RikusW> replaced it with imperial again ?
[04:19:31] <Xark> He repealed that law, got rid of teaching metric and replaced the signs again with all "domestic" units (idiot).
[04:19:46] <RikusW> ugh
[04:20:07] <specing> ...
[04:20:08] <Xark> (Or was the impetus behind it, of course congress helped... )
[04:21:10] <specing> We should have a base2 numeral system
[04:21:17] <specing> expressed as base16
[04:21:33] <Xark> Works for me. :)
[04:22:30] <Xark> Given .1 isn't representable in binary, that is a good reason to avoid base 10.
[04:25:00] <Xark> ...However if the banks are somehow profiting from all those round off errors (likely), it'll never get fixed. :)
[04:34:12] <megal0maniac> Anyone here play with an Android-AVR set up?
[04:36:30] * OndraSter does not like android
[04:36:40] <specing> neither do I
[04:36:47] <specing> but I have 3 android devices here
[04:36:53] <OndraSter> heh
[04:36:56] <OndraSter> I don't have any
[04:39:28] * megal0maniac wonders if CDC serial would work out of the box on Android with OTG cable...
[04:45:43] <OndraSter> does the android phone work as host or does the board have to be the host?
[04:46:02] <specing> OndraSter: OTG is device/host switchable
[04:46:25] <OndraSter> how does that relate to my question?
[04:46:34] <specing> eg. I can attach a portable usb keyboard to the same mini-USB port on my tablet that I use to transfer files (and adb) from my laptop
[04:47:04] <specing> OndraSter: depends if your phone is OTG capable
[04:47:09] <specing> most newer ones are
[04:47:33] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Well in this instance, phone would be host
[04:47:42] <OndraSter> finally some answer :)
[04:48:10] <megal0maniac> Have a terminal emulator and busybox, so if it enumerates, then I could talk to it using screen
[04:48:54] * megal0maniac isn't sure whether to hack together my own OTG cable or pay $2 for a chinese ebay one
[04:49:03] <megal0maniac> *his. 3rd person is silly
[04:54:54] <megal0maniac> Our security guard has started mopping the stairs. I think he's bored...
[04:55:16] <megal0maniac> I am too
[05:00:22] <w|zzy> what do you do megal0maniac?
[05:02:01] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: remember those circuits I was building? 1 has a bug meaning I have to rebuild the whole damn thing
[05:02:07] <Richard_Cavell> Trying to build those circuits on veroboard is punishment
[05:02:26] <megal0maniac> Work at a multimedia college, after hours. Sit at reception, supervise studios, tech support for studios and IT, sign out gear, anything really since I'm the only staff member here
[05:02:35] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Breadboards :)
[05:02:42] <w|zzy> damn..
[05:02:45] <Richard_Cavell> That's even less permanent
[05:02:54] <w|zzy> proto on bread.. work out bugs.. then veroboard
[05:03:08] <Richard_Cavell> w|zzy: the bug was in my building of it, not the design
[05:03:23] <w|zzy> oh.. Worst kind!
[05:03:37] <Richard_Cavell> Do you think this is too complex for breadboard? https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/ebrb94/avr-master/
[05:03:37] <megal0maniac> w|zzy: Since it's so quiet at the moment, I get paid to sit here, chat on IRC, mess around with electronics stuff and whatever the hell I please most of the time :)
[05:03:51] <w|zzy> which is cool :D
[05:03:59] <megal0maniac> Boring at times
[05:04:05] <megal0maniac> But at least I'm learning
[05:07:58] <OndraSter> DEM OBSERVERS!
[05:08:30] <megal0maniac> As in teh people who are always online but never say anything?
[05:08:38] <OndraSter> no
[05:08:47] <OndraSter> as in observers from The Fringe
[05:09:05] <OndraSter> *-The
[05:10:51] <w|zzy> its hard to keep your motivation up.. particularly if you have keep getting distracted for long periods of time
[05:11:02] <w|zzy> OndraSter: How did you know?
[05:11:42] <w|zzy> Richard_Cavell: depends if it is all on the breadboard
[05:11:50] <OndraSter> w|zzy, know what?
[05:11:59] <w|zzy> That i am watching fringe
[05:12:08] <OndraSter> because I am watching it too :D
[05:12:13] <OndraSter> 3 mins left
[05:12:13] <Richard_Cavell> w|zzy: I meant to ask whether it's too complex for veroboard. I built it but it's really complex
[05:12:16] <Richard_Cavell> wires everywhere
[05:13:50] <w|zzy> its not too complex :p
[05:14:03] <w|zzy> i have 23mins left
[05:14:06] <w|zzy> ont ruin it
[05:14:08] <w|zzy> dont ruin it
[05:15:00] <OndraSter> how could you even think about me trying to ruin it to you by saying that they all die at the end?!
[05:16:14] <RLa> routing the crossing data lines sucks
[05:16:29] <OndraSter> then route them so they do not cross :P
[05:16:37] <RLa> that's why i gave up on using 7400 etc series logic
[05:19:42] <OndraSter> w|zzy, you know what's scary? That I am afraid that the world might come to the same thing in 20 - 30 years. (Ofc observers will be from this word, but the base idea will be the same)
[05:19:54] <w|zzy> yeah.
[05:23:28] <megal0maniac> This accelerometer is odd
[05:23:58] <w|zzy> which one?
[05:23:59] <w|zzy> what interface?
[05:24:39] <megal0maniac> I can get to max and min values if I shake it, but without any shaking, values range between 145 and 470 (min & max are 0 and 669 because aref is at 5V)
[05:24:46] <megal0maniac> Analog interface
[05:25:07] <megal0maniac> Freescale 7361
[05:25:20] <w|zzy> that makes sense.
[05:25:22] <OndraSter> huh
[05:25:28] <OndraSter> really?
[05:25:31] <megal0maniac> The thing that's bugging me is that the ranges and resting points are different for each axis
[05:25:37] <OndraSter> wait
[05:25:39] <OndraSter> when it is resting
[05:25:40] <w|zzy> Youll also find that it will stabalise a short while after voltage is applied to it
[05:25:42] <OndraSter> do the values move?
[05:26:16] <megal0maniac> By about 2 or 3 points
[05:26:22] <OndraSter> that is normal
[05:26:28] <w|zzy> Yeah..
[05:26:30] <w|zzy> need a filter.
[05:26:36] <w|zzy> let me find a really good article
[05:26:39] <megal0maniac> Why are the reading different for different axes though? :/
[05:26:51] <w|zzy> For my gyro i simply took 10 readings and averaged them
[05:26:53] <OndraSter> because one is x, one is y and one is z?
[05:26:57] <w|zzy> just the way it is.
[05:26:57] <megal0maniac> I assume I'll need software calibration
[05:27:10] <w|zzy> yes.
[05:27:44] <megal0maniac> I guess it's all understandable, just... well, annoying :)
[05:27:50] <w|zzy> To use them well and accurately can be quite complex.
[05:28:15] <w|zzy> http://blog.tkjelectronics.dk/2012/09/a-practical-approach-to-kalman-filter-and-how-to-implement-it/
[05:28:18] <megal0maniac> Is there a general formula that one would use to calculate degrees?
[05:28:36] <megal0maniac> w|zzy: Kalman filter is simply averaging readings, no?
[05:28:39] <w|zzy> Look in the datasheet
[05:28:57] <w|zzy> Put stupidly simply yes.
[05:29:06] <w|zzy> that is one of the best posts you will see about it.
[05:29:47] <w|zzy> they are weighted averages.. more or less.
[05:29:59] <w|zzy> read that page. I dont know much about it
[05:30:06] <w|zzy> nor am I up to the maths
[05:31:00] <megal0maniac> I shall read. Thanks :)
[05:31:05] <w|zzy> Just remember that mems sensors have to stabalise before usage and that the "home" value can skew.
[05:31:54] <megal0maniac> I know about the stabilisation, usually 1s is enough, yes?
[05:37:04] <w|zzy> Usually..
[05:37:09] <w|zzy> might be in the datasheet
[05:38:48] <w|zzy> THEY DONT ALL DIE!
[05:38:54] <megal0maniac> Nope, nothing
[05:39:01] <w|zzy> Damn.
[05:39:06] <w|zzy> Do some testing...
[05:39:11] <megal0maniac> Not too fussed. I can always test :)
[05:39:14] <w|zzy> my gyro takes about 1s to stabalise.
[05:39:46] <w|zzy> Also if you dont need fantastic resolution take the 8 MSBs
[05:41:47] <megal0maniac> Think I might need the precision
[05:42:02] <megal0maniac> Put 3v3 into aref, now the values look nicer :P
[05:42:08] <OndraSter> darn, I will need to implement multipacket transfers!
[05:43:12] <megal0maniac> For what?
[05:43:21] <OndraSter> USB
[05:44:12] <OndraSter> wait
[05:48:37] <w|zzy> Had you set the register to use the aref?
[05:49:07] <megal0maniac> I did when I put 3v3 into it
[05:55:17] <w|zzy> :)
[05:59:05] <megal0maniac> I love buying stuff like this from China... A set of nrf boards and this accelerometer breakout were $8 including shipping
[05:59:25] <megal0maniac> And I can't fault either product
[06:06:23] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: I'm going to rebuild that circuit tomorrow but I'm going to spread it over two veroboards
[06:06:30] <Richard_Cavell> give myself more space
[06:06:36] <w|zzy> wow. i shoudl do that more.
[06:08:12] <megal0maniac> I like cramming loads of stuff onto as small a space as possible :)
[06:08:22] <Richard_Cavell> that's what led to this situation
[06:08:30] <megal0maniac> Brb, router needs a restart...
[06:08:55] <e2580> Anyone interested in a sneak peek at a hardware based security device we are about ready to release?
[06:09:05] <Richard_Cavell> already seen it
[06:09:43] <e2580> anyone else ?
[06:10:04] <Steffann> Just spam the link LO
[06:10:06] <Steffann> :P
[06:10:15] <RLa> want us to crack it? :)
[06:11:31] <e2580> www.cryptx2.com
[06:12:03] <e2580> and, yes RLa, we will welcome your attacks to the device.
[06:14:00] <RLa> e2580, you send data to it and it encrypts with the internal key?
[06:14:16] <RLa> or signs an hash?
[06:14:28] <w|zzy> it has microsd slots
[06:15:00] <w|zzy> what chip is it based on?
[06:15:01] <e2580> you enter a password on the buttons on the device, it salts it, hashes it and then checks some encrypted data for validity of the key. the key is never stored
[06:15:11] <e2580> at32uc3a3256s
[06:16:05] <RLa> key never stored is a good idea
[06:16:21] <e2580> same method truecrypt uses
[06:16:46] <e2580> and the salt is stored in secure memory on the device, so not accessable to anyone
[06:17:06] <e2580> after 10 bad attempts, it wipes the salt, so the data becomes useless
[06:17:41] <RLa> you make all design available?
[06:17:47] <RLa> is that a good idea
[06:18:32] <RLa> i guess source code available is a must for crypto devices nowadays, but pcb's and that?
[06:18:50] <RLa> chinese will just copy it
[06:19:30] <e2580> pcb, printed circuit board
[06:19:35] <w|zzy> RLa: does this use the crypto functions on the at32?
[06:19:56] <e2580> yes, the crypto accelerator in the atmel is used
[06:20:02] <w|zzy> Cool.
[06:20:04] <Richard_Cavell> So what's the best software for laying out PCBs? I want something free or cheap, that will last me a while
[06:20:19] <e2580> best is matter of preference and $ available
[06:20:27] <RLa> Richard_Cavell, using eagle here, 10x8cm pcb is free
[06:20:29] <e2580> we used altium for this project
[06:20:49] <e2580> eagle is ok for some projects. 2 layer, under 4in x 3in is free, else its paid
[06:20:51] <Richard_Cavell> what do you mean it's free? You mean they let you design that for free?
[06:20:57] <RLa> eagle has also lots of user-created libs, for avrs too
[06:21:13] <Richard_Cavell> I don't mind paying as long as it's a good investment
[06:21:22] <RLa> go check out prices
[06:21:59] <RLa> if you are going to buy of course check different programs before
[06:22:06] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Eagle is pretty much a standard. Try the free version to see if you like it. If it works for you, keep it. If you need something bigger, then you'll know exactly what you're getting when you upgrade
[06:24:20] <Richard_Cavell> I might just do that
[06:24:34] <megal0maniac> You should, it's free :)
[06:24:41] <megal0maniac> And worth the time
[06:24:59] <Richard_Cavell> See I don't have time
[06:25:01] <Richard_Cavell> Money, I have
[06:25:03] <Richard_Cavell> Time, I don't have
[06:25:11] <megal0maniac> Then you can't design PCBs :)
[06:25:18] <megal0maniac> Period.
[06:26:45] <e2580> pcb layout is not too difficult if you have schematic, as long as you dont have very specific requirements on the pcb,
[06:27:47] <Richard_Cavell> Well here's what I did with veroboard http://i.imgur.com/4bOS3.jpg https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/ebrb94/avr-master/
[06:27:58] <Richard_Cavell> And I did something incorrectly so I have to build the whole thing over again
[06:28:05] <e2580> you can place components then use auto route on a well spaced out pcb most of the time. difficult is when you have a pcb that is so dense with components and you have to mind the signal lines, then auto route istnt mush of a help and you have to lay the traces by hand... very long effort is needed then
[06:28:14] <megal0maniac> GLUE!!!!
[06:29:20] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_ knows all about that :P
[06:30:41] <Richard_Cavell> I mean, look at those frigging wires everywhere
[06:31:02] <RLa> great work using wires with same color everywhere
[06:31:08] <Richard_Cavell> LOL
[06:31:18] <RLa> i prefer green wire color tho :)
[06:31:37] <Steffann> Ha e2580 "Due to export regulations we cant ship the micro-controller that is used in the CryptX2 outside the USA." :P
[06:32:01] <RLa> crypto export madness law still in effect?
[06:32:28] <w|zzy> yep
[06:32:30] <Steffann> Yeah, the US has export regulations for all fancy devices :(
[06:32:32] <w|zzy> it will be forever
[06:33:14] <Steffann> Also for gyro/accelerometers in one package etc. You have to fill in a shitload of papers "I'm not going to build a nuke [and whatever]" :)
[06:33:15] <OndraSter_> e2580, autorouters suck
[06:33:17] <OndraSter_> no exceptions
[06:33:44] <RLa> i build switching stuff sometimes and autorouters are completely useless
[06:33:54] <Richard_Cavell> Steffann: I'm sure that's stopped the development of nuclear weapons
[06:33:55] <OndraSter_> Steffann, when I was ordering xmegas from mouser I had to fill in "I am not a terrorist and I am not on the list of terrorist countries" paper too
[06:34:11] <Steffann> Yeah, because of the crypto crap it has
[06:34:33] <OndraSter_> yep
[06:34:35] <OndraSter_> AES + DES
[06:35:09] <RLa> usa has chance to build backdoor into all devices they sell, instead they make other countries come up with their own uncrackable crypto
[06:35:22] <RLa> that's stupid
[06:35:40] <megal0maniac> I didn't have to fill out anything to get an xboard
[06:35:44] <OndraSter_> hehe
[06:35:45] <OndraSter_> I am not in the US
[06:35:59] <megal0maniac> You might have a market for yourself
[06:36:02] <megal0maniac> Terrorists :P
[06:36:10] <OndraSter_> mmmmmmm!
[06:36:18] <OndraSter_> I actually had to fill out "target product countries"
[06:36:21] <OndraSter_> :D
[06:36:24] <OndraSter_> only CZE is there!
[06:36:34] <megal0maniac> :O
[06:36:46] <megal0maniac> We all
[06:36:47] <megal0maniac> lie
[06:36:50] <OndraSter_> yep
[06:36:53] <OndraSter_> now I lied to the US
[06:36:54] <megal0maniac> How else would we get samples?
[06:36:57] <OndraSter_> and I don't feel bad about it
[06:37:01] <OndraSter_> samples were sent from.. hmm
[06:37:06] <OndraSter_> but I didn't have to fill out anything for those
[06:37:24] <megal0maniac> Dean told me to lie :)
[06:37:37] <megal0maniac> I'm not making a product, I'm just curious
[06:37:51] <megal0maniac> And like free things
[06:39:45] <OndraSter_> :D
[06:39:50] <OndraSter_> I don't lie when sampling anymore
[06:39:53] <OndraSter_> I have a real use for them
[06:39:58] <OndraSter_> but I don't like ST now
[06:40:07] <OndraSter_> I know many people who sample their chips for 1off home projects
[06:40:09] <OndraSter_> and they get them
[06:40:14] <OndraSter_> when I have a legit project they say NO
[06:41:33] <specing> hehe
[06:42:11] <specing> OndraSter_: Have you shipped any xboard to iran yet?
[06:42:53] <OndraSter_> nope
[06:42:55] <OndraSter_> only to ZAR :D
[06:43:19] <megal0maniac> We're taking over
[06:43:28] <megal0maniac> Has Rikus received his?
[06:43:41] <OndraSter_> no idea
[06:43:49] <megal0maniac> Molavy is from Iran, I think. Maybe he'll want one
[06:44:11] <OndraSter_> 23rd it went through customs
[06:44:11] <specing> He is?
[06:44:12] <megal0maniac> Probably simpler than that 32bit board he got his hands on...
[06:44:16] <specing> 0.o
[06:44:30] <OndraSter_> 7 days on customs
[06:44:31] <OndraSter_> nice
[06:44:45] <megal0maniac> Nick isn't registered, so I can't check now
[06:45:15] <megal0maniac> 7 days?? Ouch. Must be getting suspicious since they've seen it before :P
[06:45:31] <molavy> Yes, I'm from Iran
[06:45:39] <megal0maniac> There you go
[06:46:27] <OndraSter_> heh
[06:46:41] <OndraSter_> well it has got sticker with value of 499 CZK = 20 EUR approximately
[06:46:47] <OndraSter_> I don't know how much is your taxing minimum
[06:47:28] <specing> 20EUR?!?!
[06:47:38] <specing> you get a cortex-a8 devkit from china for 40EUR
[06:47:44] <specing> free shipping.
[06:47:46] <OndraSter_> .
[06:47:48] <OndraSter_> well I am not china
[06:47:58] <OndraSter_> I am not paid $1/hour
[06:47:59] <specing> with HARDWARE SATA
[06:48:04] <OndraSter_> heh
[06:48:08] <OndraSter_> and LOONIKS!
[06:48:24] <OndraSter_> and how easy it is to incorporate that chip itself in your project after that?
[06:48:25] <specing> yep
[06:48:30] <OndraSter_> because with xmega you just put in the chip and boom, you are done
[06:48:38] <specing> uhm...
[06:48:48] <specing> you just put the whole board in your product
[06:48:51] <specing> cheaper.
[06:49:02] <OndraSter_> duh
[06:49:11] <OndraSter_> how can it be cheaper?
[06:49:13] <specing> :)
[06:49:22] <OndraSter_> I know that chinese have knockoff chips...
[06:49:28] <OndraSter_> but knockoffs with SATA? :P
[06:49:34] <OndraSter_> you better hope it is not using nForce2!
[06:49:37] <OndraSter_> (or was it nF4?)
[06:49:44] <OndraSter_> that had broken SATA and was corrupting data :P
[06:50:07] <specing> It is their own CPU design based on cortex-a8
[06:50:18] <specing> the chip is 5$ in mass volume
[06:50:31] <OndraSter_> what chip that is?
[06:50:32] <megal0maniac> Holy shit
[06:50:37] <specing> Allwinner A10
[06:50:46] <megal0maniac> A student here has a Chev Cobra
[06:50:55] <megal0maniac> wth?
[06:51:01] <specing> ??
[06:52:24] <megal0maniac> Apparently reading analogue voltage with external aref set and nothing connected is bad.
[06:52:45] <OndraSter_> huh?
[06:53:04] <megal0maniac> Oh wait nevermind
[06:53:16] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: Should I try to build my circuit using a handdrawn circuit using a pen?
[06:53:19] <OndraSter_> did you know that you can use DAC as the ADC reference on xmega? :P
[06:53:29] <OndraSter_> Richard_Cavell, no
[06:53:36] <OndraSter_> make the circuit in eagle or something
[06:53:39] <OndraSter_> as A SCHEMATIC
[06:53:43] <OndraSter_> and then press SWITCH TO BOARD
[06:53:54] <RLa> i sometimes use pencil and pen before doing the real layout
[06:53:56] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Why are you asking me?
[06:53:59] <OndraSter_> it will place all the parts on the edge with not connected nets
[06:54:00] <megal0maniac> I can't design anything
[06:54:01] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: just 'cos
[06:54:06] <OndraSter_> you place it on the board and connect it all up
[06:54:13] <OndraSter_> based on the nets
[06:54:30] <OndraSter_> RLa, you use pen to write on the pencil? :)
[06:54:41] <RLa> oh, paper too
[06:54:43] <OndraSter_> :P
[06:54:47] <OndraSter_> I use my tablet pc
[06:54:55] <OndraSter_> if I have to do something by hand
[07:02:06] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: What is the precision of the DAC? Or does it depend purely on the Vin?
[07:02:52] <OndraSter_> no
[07:02:55] <OndraSter_> well
[07:02:59] <OndraSter_> it depends on the AVCC
[07:03:05] <OndraSter_> but you can also use internal 1V reference
[07:03:09] <OndraSter_> or use external ref :)
[07:03:17] <megal0maniac> Lets assume AVCC is tied to Vusb
[07:03:24] <OndraSter_> (it is not, it is connected to vcc)
[07:03:32] <OndraSter_> also the DAC is calibrated in factory
[07:03:38] <OndraSter_> you can load the calibration data from NVM
[07:03:46] <OndraSter_> I don't think it is loaded automatically
[07:04:26] <OndraSter_> ADC is calibrated to better specs, so you can also connect the DAC to ADC internally, measure how off it is and precisely calibrate it :P
[12:16:32] <tsmz> Hi everyone, I'm having problems getting my programmer (usbtiny) to communicate with an attiny84a. Is there anything that could keep the programmer from communicating to the processor? Current draw is about 1.7 mA.
[12:17:43] <Richard_Cavell> tsmz: Do you have power going to the attiny84a?
[12:18:28] <tsmz> I'm letting the programmer supply power to the attiny; when measuring the power draw through the programmer's vcc line to the attiny, I measure 1.7 mA.
[12:19:10] <Tom_itx> any of the isp lines used for peripherals?
[12:19:16] <tsmz> not so sure whether that power draw is to be expected of a new attiny
[12:19:18] <Tom_itx> too much loading will cause problems
[12:19:27] <Tom_itx> 1ma isn't much
[12:20:06] <tsmz> hm, I'm using them for I2C, but currently don't have any sensors or wiring connected--just the 4.7k pullup resistors.
[12:20:34] <Amadiro> tsmz, these kind of problems are usually just the lines being connected wrongly
[12:20:42] <Amadiro> is this a first-time wire-up, or did it work before?
[12:20:47] <tsmz> first-time.
[12:21:00] <Amadiro> Then make sure you didn't get any of the pin assignments the wrong way around et cetera
[12:21:29] <Amadiro> tsmz, also use a multimeter to measure which pins of the programmer output the current, to make sure you have the pinout of the programmer-cable correctly
[12:21:55] <tsmz> amadiro: the programmer has a jumper to supply power to the target, I'm measuring the current at this jumper.
[12:22:05] <Amadiro> first time I wired up my usbtiny I looked at the cable-adapter from the bottom rather than the top, so it ended up being mirrored
[12:23:56] <tsmz> the programmer is a small usbtiny clone, built from a kit (and built correctly), so no problems there. I'll check the connection to the MCU, however.
[12:24:54] <tsmz> by the way, it's an attiny84a
[12:34:22] <tsmz> pinout of the 6-pin header seems to be correct
[12:38:37] <tsmz> I have no clue why this doesn't work. Reset is pulled low via a 10k resistor. SCK and MOSI are pulled to Vcc via 4.7k resistors.
[12:40:43] <tsmz> any ideas what I can try now?
[12:41:14] <tsmz> I'd rather not remove the resistors right away, as they are tiny SMT devices and a hassle to re-solder.
[12:44:05] <Amadiro> tsmz, are you flashing it via TPI?
[12:44:48] <tsmz> I'm trying to flash it via ISP
[12:45:03] <Amadiro> tsmz, hm, I've never pulled reset low while flashing via ISP
[12:45:24] <Amadiro> But I haven't programmed that exact chip
[12:46:01] <tsmz> will the 4.7k pullups be a problem while programming?
[12:46:35] <tsmz> desoldering the 10k resistor on the reset line will be less of a hassle.
[12:48:24] <OndraSter> 4k7 or 10k is nothing
[12:48:27] <Tom_itx> tsmz
[12:48:44] <OndraSter> also TPI is only on 6pin devices!
[12:48:44] <Tom_itx> why would you have a pulldown on reset?
[12:48:53] <Tom_itx> you are holding the device in reset!!
[12:49:22] <Blecha> for the secret uber fast reset mode obviously
[12:49:42] * Tom_itx gives tsmz a clue
[12:49:42] <Amadiro> Yeah, I suspect the low reset pin is why it doesn't work...
[12:50:05] * Tom_itx clue: Reset is pulled low via a 10k resistor.
[12:50:25] * OndraSter 's clue: Reset is pulled LOW via a 10k resistor.
[12:50:27] <Tom_itx> it should go to VCC
[12:50:35] <tsmz> ouch.
[12:50:52] <tsmz> yes, that was quite stupid.
[12:50:57] <OndraSter> yes
[12:51:01] <Tom_itx> get out the sawzall and cut it off the board
[12:52:09] <Tom_itx> i'd leave the resistor, cut the trace and route it to vcc
[12:52:41] <Amadiro> spec seems to say you're supposed to pull RESET low
[12:52:55] <Tom_itx> reset IS active LOW
[12:53:02] <Tom_itx> if you want to spend life in reset
[12:54:05] <Tom_itx> i didn't look at the 84 data sheet but there's no reason it would be different than any other avr8
[12:54:27] <Blecha> It has the secret uber fast reset mode, I told you already
[12:54:42] <Amadiro> "Both the Flash and EEPROM memory arrays can be programmed using the serial SPI bus while RESET is pulled to GND. " is what the datasheet says
[12:55:17] <Tom_itx> the job of the programmer
[12:55:17] <Blecha> If you are programming then you pull reset low, for normal operation its pulled high
[12:55:26] <Tom_itx> the job of the programmer
[12:55:32] <Tom_itx> not the design of the board
[12:55:33] <Blecha> if you are programming the chip in question*
[13:35:27] <bsdfox_> blecha: I'm pretty sure reset is toggled a couple times during programming
[13:39:06] <tsmz> well, now I did everything I can think of (remove the I2C resistors, use a 10k pullUP for reset), but the programmer still doesn't want to communicate. I am getting a feeling that the programmer might be at fault. Any way to test it?
[13:40:26] <Amadiro> tsmz, just put an attiny on a breadboard and connect it up as direct as possible
[13:40:56] <tsmz> the device I'm using isn't breadboardable. I do, however, have an arduino here.
[13:41:28] <Amadiro> well, you can solder on jumper wires deadbug-style
[14:27:08] <inkjetunito> i noticed that interrupt.h has a (nice?) macro for defining ISRs, but i've no idea on how to use a preprocessor macro
[14:29:16] <OndraSter> huh?
[14:29:30] <OndraSter> ISR(some_vector) { your_code_goes_here(); }
[14:29:36] <OndraSter> in your .c file(s)
[14:30:57] <inkjetunito> somehow i've survived without macros before this. thanks :)
[14:32:07] <OndraSter> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__interrupts.html
[14:32:10] <OndraSter> afk
[14:32:28] <inkjetunito> thanks
[14:32:32] <OndraSter> np
[14:57:00] <tsmz> if anyone is still interested, programming is working now. I messed it up in two ways--in addition to having a pulldown on reset, I also assembled the programmer incorrectly (rotated a pair of resistors by 90°). Thanks for all the help!
[15:03:30] <OndraSter> eh
[15:05:47] <rue_house> is the US election over?
[15:08:37] <Steffann> Something bad happened?
[15:16:49] <rue_house> the canadian dollar is back in the hole, either our govt is doing a good job of deflating it as the same rate as the us dollar or the election is over
[17:08:02] <CrownWheel> Hey. Forgive me for cross-posting from #eclipse, but I've got an issue with binary generation in the AVR Eclipse plugin. One project stops short, with an .elf file, and won't even attempt to generate a .hex file.
[17:08:12] <CrownWheel> The option to "Generate HEX file for Flash memory" under "Additional Tools" is checked. And the "Create Flash Image" step is present in the "Tool Chain Editor" listing.
[17:08:23] <CrownWheel> But, after the .elf file is built, there's no more output. Eclipse just stops like it's satisfied with a job well done.
[17:08:41] <CrownWheel> Any clue what's stopping the build process?
[17:10:18] <OndraSter> does it have the required tools?
[17:10:22] <OndraSter> avr-objcopy
[17:10:23] <OndraSter> and such
[17:10:53] <CrownWheel> yeah. In fact, it successfully builds a .hex file for another project.
[17:11:17] <OndraSter> hmm
[17:12:03] <CrownWheel> I"m in the process of using log otuput from the successful build to generate the .hex file by hand.
[17:13:07] <CrownWheel> Now, I'm new to Eclipse. But I"m guessing there's SOMETHING different between the two project configurations. Hell if I know what it is, though. And I couldn't figure out the "import preferences" feature. It didn't seem to work (Eclipse v4.2. new download as of...two days ago, under Win7).
[17:28:09] <OndraSter> why are you using eclipse on win7?!
[17:31:09] <CrownWheel> you have a better recommendation for a C/C++ for AVR development environment? I'm far from committed here.
[17:31:21] <OndraSter> Atmel Studio 6
[17:31:22] <OndraSter> ...
[17:31:23] <OndraSter> obviously
[17:31:33] <OndraSter> directly from Atmel
[17:31:49] <OndraSter> works better than any Microchip/ARM/.. MPLAB/Eclipse/Netbeans/... stuff
[17:31:57] <CrownWheel> So, update. YES, I can build legitimate .hex files by hand. AND Eclipse is sufficiently aware of where stuff is supposed to be that hitting the "upload" button successfully programs my chip.
[17:32:10] <CrownWheel> it just won't generate the .hex file on its own. W, I ask you, W.T.F.?
[17:32:42] <CrownWheel> cost for the Atmel dev suite?
[17:32:46] <OndraSter> 0
[17:32:48] <CrownWheel> That's really good to hear, actually. I"ve used MPLab and it did NOT come wiht a (free) C compiler.
[17:32:49] <OndraSter> $0.00
[17:32:49] <CrownWheel> nice.
[17:32:49] <Xark> I believe it is (basically) the same GCC compiler, but the Amtel IDE is pretty nice (basically a licensed version of MS Visual Studio 2010 with Whole Tomato Visual Assist included). Free.
[17:33:00] <OndraSter> yep
[17:33:06] <OndraSter> it is MSVS 2010 Shell
[17:33:13] <OndraSter> with gcc on top of it
[17:33:33] <Xark> Works with AVR32 and (I believe) ARM too. :)
[17:33:38] <OndraSter> yep
[17:33:42] <OndraSter> atmel cortex chips
[17:34:25] <OndraSter> I am pretty sure you could bend it (without debugging of course) for any ARM :P
[17:34:26] <Xark> OndraSter: I have to agree, it is by far the best free (or even not so free) IDE from a chip vendor.
[17:35:51] <CrownWheel> wow. rave reviews. the last IDE I was that impressed by was...PSoc Designer from Cypress. I never did use their C compiler. But they were courteous enough to supply a very nice and well documented ASM API.
[17:36:55] <CrownWheel> It had a really nice graphical interface for setting up the PSoC's configurable hardware blocks.
[17:36:59] <Xark> CrownWheel: Cool. A Kickstarter project I backed using PSoC just got funded, so I'm glad to hear their IDE is decent. Sounds like an interesting chip (ARM+CPLD).
[17:37:39] <OndraSter> CrownWheel, what chip and programmer do you use btw?
[17:39:19] <CrownWheel> Yeah. You look through their App Notes? When PSoC debuted, they gave away dev boards and solicited App Notes on interesting projects. Awesome stuff in there. Graphical equalizer, with white noise output for flattening stereo EQs, using an on-the-fly reconfigured analog filter block that swept the frequency of its notch. 10 voice polyphonic MIDI piano in a single chip. Neat stuff.
[17:40:21] <CrownWheel> OndraSter, when I was messing with Cypress and PIC, I was using bare chips. My present AVR hardware is an Arduino Uno board.
[17:40:35] <OndraSter> ah
[17:41:25] <CrownWheel> PIC I programmed with a 3rd party Epic tool. And Cypress....I seem to remember rolling my own and using the serial port. I don't think I ever had a PSoC programmer.
[17:42:40] <Tom_itx> my epic was a parport one iirc
[17:42:43] <OndraSter> I am switching to these connectors from now one
[17:42:44] <OndraSter> http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/FCI/10118194-0001LF/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuhucAexPYLenOYR6pj7lkm
[17:42:53] <OndraSter> the SMD-only ones are not ... good.
[17:43:00] <OndraSter> well they are good
[17:43:06] <OndraSter> but if you are somebody like me
[17:43:09] <OndraSter> they are NOT good.
[17:43:40] <megal0maniac> For those who are interested :)
[17:43:42] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/YquMgtJ0
[17:44:05] <megal0maniac> Last 10 or so lines are me testing home made OTG. USB CDC does not work out of the box
[17:44:14] <OndraSter> eh
[17:44:24] <Tom_itx> could care less
[17:44:26] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:44:41] <Tom_itx> seriously though...
[17:45:11] <Tom_itx> i didn't need to see all your dmesg
[17:45:20] <Tom_itx> just the last dozen lines would make me happy
[17:45:24] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Nor did you need to click :P
[17:45:32] <Tom_itx> i know, i'm just messin
[17:45:38] <megal0maniac> And my TL;DR warning was here :)
[17:45:47] <Tom_itx> one of the few here that probably do care
[17:46:20] <OndraSter> :D
[17:46:31] <Tom_itx> i b lucky to stay awake now
[17:46:32] <megal0maniac> That's pretty encouraging :P
[17:46:52] <Tom_itx> went skating then returned and raked the yard. now i'm pooped
[17:47:23] <Tom_itx> did you write the usb stack?
[17:47:36] <OndraSter> http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598812_458233754220094_1484637589_n.jpg
[17:47:36] <OndraSter> dat ass
[17:47:42] <megal0maniac> That's stock, untouched firmware right there
[17:48:05] <megal0maniac> Wait
[17:48:09] <Tom_itx> it's arduino
[17:48:11] <megal0maniac> USB stack is device side
[17:48:18] <OndraSter> usb stacks are everywhere
[17:48:28] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Except on your xboard :P
[17:48:31] <OndraSter> :P
[17:48:31] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:48:35] <OndraSter> there is one
[17:48:38] <OndraSter> but not finished one!
[17:48:52] <specing> OndraSter: ever wondered how large the Linux USB stack is?
[17:48:57] <OndraSter> a lot
[17:49:08] <specing> I've always been wondering why my kernels are over 3MB in size
[17:49:08] <megal0maniac> So much
[17:49:13] <OndraSter> hehe
[17:49:15] <megal0maniac> (not really)
[17:49:29] <Tom_itx> why does talk about stacks make me think of boobies?
[17:49:43] <OndraSter> because I sent an ass photo
[17:49:49] <megal0maniac> Was just going to say that
[17:49:59] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, where's the rest of it?
[17:50:07] <OndraSter> I don't have the rest of her
[17:50:24] <OndraSter> also, THAT COPPER!
[17:50:24] <OndraSter> http://9gag.com/gag/5697095?ref=popular
[17:51:18] <Tom_itx> beware of the aligator
[17:52:14] <OndraSter> .. if you have noticed that sign I have some bad news for you!
[17:52:22] <ferdna> so i bought a HP 3325A.
[17:52:28] <OndraSter> that number sounds familiar
[17:52:40] <OndraSter> yep
[17:52:53] <OndraSter> how much did you pay for it?
[17:53:23] <ferdna> 120
[17:53:33] <ferdna> usd
[17:53:56] <ferdna> is that too much?
[17:54:22] <OndraSter> sounds fairly cheap to me
[17:54:29] <OndraSter> for HP/Agilent brand
[17:54:38] <ferdna> coool =)
[17:54:48] <OndraSter> but I don't know, check ebay
[17:55:04] <OndraSter> shipping anything from the US to here would cost like $40 - $100
[17:55:08] <OndraSter> so I do not bother with any such stuff :(
[17:55:14] <specing> function generator... pimped up ARM9 for $30?
[17:55:22] <OndraSter> .....
[17:55:25] <OndraSter> SHUT UP, MEG!
[17:55:32] <specing> ARM!!!
[17:55:33] <OndraSter> (I need new episodes of Family Guy)
[17:55:44] <OndraSter> how does your ARM9 go to 21MHz sine?
[17:55:58] <OndraSter> at least my xboard has DAC!
[17:56:24] <OndraSter> without any external circuitry
[17:56:31] <OndraSter> (* not counting 100nF caps)
[17:57:31] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, you're using micro instead of mini b usb?
[17:57:50] <OndraSter> yes
[17:57:58] <OndraSter> because micro is now on every phone*
[17:58:02] <OndraSter> (* except apple)
[17:58:12] <Tom_itx> i suppose mini will be phased out
[17:58:21] <OndraSter> yep
[17:58:21] <specing> yup
[17:58:22] <Tom_itx> is it the same pinout?
[17:58:27] <OndraSter> is there even USB3.0 mini at all?
[17:58:28] <Tom_itx> 5 wire?
[17:58:29] <OndraSter> yes
[17:58:29] <megal0maniac> Micro is 5 pin
[17:58:47] <megal0maniac> For OTG :)
[17:58:50] <Tom_itx> mini has 5 but uses 4 iirc
[17:59:00] <OndraSter> the fifth one is "ID" pin
[17:59:08] <OndraSter> on phones it often means "go to bootloader yo" :P
[17:59:20] <OndraSter> when pulled low via 300k resistor
[17:59:23] <OndraSter> (or was it pulled high?)
[17:59:43] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: If you pull to ground with 100k, you can feed power and charge it while using otg :)
[18:00:08] <megal0maniac> Which is good, because otg is power hungry for obvious reasons
[18:00:21] <OndraSter> :P
[18:00:24] <OndraSter> MUM!! MUM!!!
[18:00:26] <OndraSter> Yes?
[18:00:34] <megal0maniac> Hi.
[18:00:34] <OndraSter> - Am I a beautiful princess?
[18:00:38] <OndraSter> - no, you are gay.
[18:01:04] * Tom_itx thinks OndraSter fell off his rocker
[18:01:11] <OndraSter> or
[18:01:30] <OndraSter> - Dad! Today at school told me some kids that I am a homo.
[18:01:34] <OndraSter> - Did you beat them?
[18:01:39] <OndraSter> - No. They were soooo cuuutteee!
[18:02:05] <megal0maniac> So yeah, no ACM on Android :(
[18:02:17] <OndraSter> isn't ACM the .... most used one?
[18:02:23] <megal0maniac> Yip
[18:02:32] <OndraSter> failtastic
[18:02:47] <megal0maniac> Last few lines of that dmesg
[18:02:52] <megal0maniac> Starting at 2057
[18:03:43] <OndraSter> I got this wonderful idea of buying some 19U or 24U or something like that big rack
[18:03:54] <megal0maniac> HOLY CRAP
[18:03:54] <OndraSter> getting 4U or 6U or whatever chassis in which I would fit my computer
[18:04:00] <megal0maniac> external sound card works :/
[18:04:02] <OndraSter> then getting 1 or 2U chassis to fit my server
[18:04:10] <OndraSter> then fitting in there switch and router
[18:04:13] <OndraSter> boom
[18:04:16] <OndraSter> and UPS
[18:12:59] <specing> OndraSter: That is a great idea
[18:13:08] <specing> Nuke the annoying boxes
[18:13:16] <specing> that you can't fit like anywhere
[18:13:33] <OndraSter> you mean regular ATX chassis?
[18:13:33] <OndraSter> towers
[18:13:39] <specing> yeah
[18:13:43] <OndraSter> hehe
[18:14:28] <specing> Why are there no cheap 2U computers?
[18:14:44] <specing> I don't need 4 15K RPM SAS disks and quad xeons
[18:15:06] <OndraSter> actually I have got this awesome "computer" drawer - on the left there is place for a computer, where is my server
[18:15:07] <specing> just a simple box in 2U or 3U format
[18:15:13] <OndraSter> and on the top one could usually put printer or something
[18:15:18] <OndraSter> I have got there my computer
[18:15:24] <OndraSter> and all that is in the absolute edge of the room
[18:15:30] <OndraSter> no space wasted
[18:15:33] <OndraSter> specing, you can!
[18:15:38] <OndraSter> but they are like 100EUR
[18:15:39] <OndraSter> at least
[18:15:42] <specing> D:
[18:15:48] <OndraSter> JUST the chassis
[18:15:55] <OndraSter> maybe with fans
[18:16:32] <OndraSter> I have got a deal on 1U ATX chassis though, around 34 eur delivered
[18:16:44] <OndraSter> or 22 eur if I come to pick it up
[18:16:47] <OndraSter> (in Prague)
[18:16:47] <specing> 1U means those annoying 4cm fans
[18:16:49] <OndraSter> yep
[18:16:54] <ferdna> OndraSter: refurbished $645 http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/hewlettpackard/signalgenerators/3325a.htm
[18:16:57] <specing> don't get them
[18:17:01] <specing> seriously don't
[18:17:07] <OndraSter> but my server will be cheap 2.6GHz dualcore sandy
[18:17:15] <specing> I've worked with Cisco 1U equipment before
[18:17:17] <OndraSter> right now it has got 1x8cm intake
[18:17:21] <OndraSter> and 1x8cm outtake
[18:17:21] <specing> its a frickin tornado
[18:17:26] <OndraSter> slowed to the lowest possible speeds
[18:17:29] <OndraSter> I nkow
[18:17:29] <OndraSter> I had a server
[18:17:31] <OndraSter> 1U
[18:17:36] <OndraSter> from IBM
[18:18:02] <OndraSter> my home server = download PC (torrents, ..), AD, WSUS, DHCP, DNS
[18:18:08] <OndraSter> exchange (once I upgrade it)
[21:35:33] <X-warrior> How can I update USBAsp on avrdude?
[21:37:41] <Tom_itx> the chicken egg thing?
[21:38:52] <Casper> X-warrior: you need another programmer
[21:39:12] <Tom_itx> maybe not if it doesn't have a buffer chip
[21:39:22] <Tom_itx> the old ones didn't
[21:40:01] <X-warrior> Casper, another USB Asp?
[21:40:20] <Tom_itx> possibly
[21:41:07] <X-warrior> any other solution? :(
[21:42:42] <Tom_itx> you're gonna need another programmer of some type
[21:42:48] <Tom_itx> why do you need to update it?
[21:43:44] <X-warrior> "avrdude: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update."
[21:44:51] <Tom_itx> what's another usbasp cost?
[21:45:20] <X-warrior> I don't know 5 dollars from china I guess... Can I use my Arduino Board to reprogram it?
[21:45:40] <Tom_itx> maybe but don't ask me how to do it
[21:46:29] <Tom_itx> or you could get a _good_ programmer :)
[21:47:01] * hackvana knows where to get good programmers
[21:47:05] <X-warrior> like what? stk500?
[21:47:13] <Tom_itx> like mine
[21:47:24] <hackvana> X-warrior: hint: ask Tom_itx
[21:47:31] <hackvana> His programmers are very nice. I love mine.
[21:47:46] <X-warrior> Tom_itx, where can I found it?
[21:48:01] <Tom_itx> and if need be you can update it with FLIP without any extra hardware
[21:48:03] <Casper> his programmer is so good that the chinese stole his design
[21:48:14] <Tom_itx> indonesia
[21:48:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[21:48:26] <Casper> same
[21:49:29] <X-warrior> How much it costs from indonesia guy? x)
[21:49:30] <X-warrior> lol
[21:49:41] <Tom_itx> it does quite a bit more than your usbasp
[21:49:50] <Tom_itx> go ask him
[21:49:58] <Tom_itx> but don't ask me to help you
[21:50:12] <X-warrior> it was a joke men take it easy
[21:50:13] <X-warrior> :/
[21:50:16] <Tom_itx> i know
[21:50:23] <X-warrior> Do you ship internationally?
[21:50:36] <Tom_itx> i'd ship to the moon if they had a post office
[21:50:51] <Tom_itx> there's only a couple places i frown on shipping to
[21:51:15] <Tom_itx> some guy in dubai wanted one and we decided it best not to
[21:51:19] <X-warrior> is brazil one of then?
[21:51:22] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:51:30] <Tom_itx> i'll gladly send you one
[21:55:04] <X-warrior> have u ever shipped to brazil?
[21:55:14] <Tom_itx> pretty sure i have
[21:56:17] <Tom_itx> Rio was one
[21:56:35] <Tom_itx> Agrestina
[21:56:50] <Tom_itx> Curitiba
[21:59:57] <X-warrior> nice
[22:01:58] <Tom_itx> it does no good to save a file if you don't know where you saved it.
[22:03:14] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:03:16] <Tom_itx> there it is
[23:13:52] <iR0b0t1> Where are UBBR0L/H defined? I am unable to find the header. I have most of the standard AVR headers included.
[23:15:43] <Casper> avr/stdio.h iirc
[23:16:00] <Casper> wait... maybe in one of those avr#.whatever?
[23:16:17] <Casper> anyway, including avr/stdio.h and compiling for the right avr shall work
[23:16:41] <iR0b0t1> it didn't :(
[23:22:47] <iR0b0t1> avr/stdio.h doesn't exist, supposedly
[23:23:26] <Tom_itx> check your device io.h
[23:23:41] <Tom_itx> it's a register
[23:23:51] <Tom_itx> baudrate?
[23:24:11] <ferdna> whats the name of the other guy that does the same thing as "Collin Cunningham" he works for jameco... and the other one works for i dont remember who..
[23:25:12] <ferdna> he looks nerdy with glasses
[23:25:37] <iR0b0t1> spelled it wrong
[23:25:40] <iR0b0t1> trololololololo
[23:25:46] <iR0b0t1> :\
[23:26:07] <iR0b0t1> Casper / Tom_itx: thanks
[23:44:34] <ferdna> found him he is bre from makemagazine
[23:47:54] <iR0b0t1> Can I write UDR0 to trigger a USART tx while in USART_RX_vect?
[23:48:07] <jadew> yes
[23:56:23] <jadew> hey guys, any idea if you can have an op amp as a comparator, but have the low (0) at an arbitrary value above it's negative power supply
[23:56:48] <jadew> like, the op amp could be powered from 0 and +12 and it would output +12 for 1 and +6 for 0