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[03:38:05] <e2580> hi
[03:39:37] <OndraSterver> hihi
[03:40:37] <e2580> any experienced avr devs looking for work here ?
[03:41:01] <e2580> on at32uc3a3256s
[03:42:57] <Richard_Cavell> e2580: If you're serious about offering work, try avrfreaks.net
[03:43:50] <e2580> thanks, i will check it out
[03:44:02] <e2580> and yes, i am serious
[03:44:32] <e2580> Im also showing a sneak peek at the project we are workingon, and ready to release very very soon
[03:44:47] <Richard_Cavell> out of interest, what's the project?
[03:45:09] <OndraSterver> e2580, do you have a kickstarter/indiegogo/.. page for it?
[03:45:27] <e2580> kickstarter is going up in 1-2 weeks
[03:45:32] <e2580> we are finalizing everything now
[03:45:43] <e2580> www.cryptx2.com
[03:45:48] <OndraSterver> I am thinking indiegogo
[03:45:51] <OndraSterver> for xboard
[03:46:12] <e2580> indiegogo is a backup plan if kickstarter declines the project
[03:46:35] <e2580> y did you choose indiegogo over kickstarter ?
[03:46:43] <OndraSterver> because kickstarter = not outside the US :)
[03:48:24] <e2580> ahh
[03:48:41] <edmont> do u know if avrdude can be used to write a portion of the MCU flash?
[03:48:43] <e2580> whats your project? got links ?
[03:49:08] <OndraSterver> http://myxboard.net
[03:53:10] <Richard_Cavell> e2580: Mate I was just thinking of something like that!
[03:53:12] <Richard_Cavell> What a good idea
[03:53:25] <Richard_Cavell> Good luck with it
[03:53:43] <e2580> thanks, any feedback is welcome
[03:53:59] <e2580> we will have several versions of firmware so let u know ideas for features etc..
[03:54:07] <e2580> *us
[04:16:29] <megal0maniac> Does anyone know what the attainable range is with these el cheapo nrf24l01+ modules is? The ones with the PCB antenna
[04:16:58] <megal0maniac> I'd check, but I don't have anything to program right now :) Looking for user experience...
[04:19:15] <OndraSterver> I have got here four nrf24l01+ with PCB antennas
[04:19:27] <OndraSterver> but haven't even plugged them :D
[04:19:35] <OndraSterver> because they have got TWO rows of pins
[04:19:41] <OndraSterver> how the hell am I supposed to put that onto a breadboard? :(
[04:23:32] <megal0maniac> I was going to put a 2x4 crimp connector on ribbon cable to break it out
[04:23:41] <megal0maniac> But you're right, it's a mission...
[04:24:40] <megal0maniac> Will use M-F jumpers when I get to it, eventually. Or the 2x5 breakout cables I have for the U2S :)
[04:24:55] <megal0maniac> I still can't get over how cheap chinese stuff is...
[04:25:26] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:25:31] <OndraSterver> it used to be much cheaper though :P
[04:26:19] <megal0maniac> $0.99 for two modules, with free shipping?
[04:26:29] <OndraSterver> wait
[04:26:30] <OndraSterver> where
[04:26:30] <OndraSterver> ?
[04:26:35] <OndraSterver> I bought one for $2.5
[04:26:57] <megal0maniac> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-2-4GHz-NRF24L01-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-NEW-/370672729010
[04:27:06] <megal0maniac> I bought two for $3.85
[04:27:12] <OndraSterver> oh
[04:27:14] <OndraSterver> yeah
[04:27:17] <OndraSterver> it is not buy now :)
[04:27:23] <megal0maniac> My bad :P
[04:28:11] <megal0maniac> I got
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-NRF24L01-2-4GHz-Antenna-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-For-Microcontr-/251044600998
[04:28:40] <megal0maniac> Shipping was cheap, and pretty fast, and the modules look good. No idea whether they work or not, but I don't doubt it
[04:29:11] <megal0maniac> Less than 3 weeks, and thing always seem to take longer here. Itead took 40 days, and I paid for that shipping
[04:32:19] <OndraSterver> huh
[04:32:27] <OndraSterver> I get itead in a 7 or 14 days usually
[04:32:32] <OndraSterver> sometimes china takes 6 days
[04:32:34] <OndraSterver> sometimes a month
[04:33:29] <megal0maniac> My word
[04:33:31] <megal0maniac> 11 days
[04:33:37] <megal0maniac> Just checked
[04:37:36] <OndraSterver> I have dropped my bard.
[04:37:37] <OndraSterver> beard
[04:37:59] <megal0maniac> I like bard more
[04:40:14] <megal0maniac> Nap time. Cheers all
[04:40:19] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:40:21] <megal0maniac> Hello and goodbye Rikus :)
[04:40:24] <OndraSterver> nap time?
[04:40:34] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Yes. Woke up early to write exam
[04:40:38] <megal0maniac> Time to catch up
[04:40:44] <OndraSterver> I woke up early today too
[04:40:56] <OndraSterver> so I could drive 1 hour to the centre, have 1 hour of PE and 1 hour to get back
[04:41:12] <RikusW> hi megal0maniac
[08:08:11] <heymaster> Hello, using Arduino monitor serial working properly, but using my C program don't. Even this
http://todbot.com/arduino/host/arduino-serial/arduino-serial.c << don't work .. I tried to disable DTR, but haven't helped
[08:08:42] <heymaster> just don't know that to do :/
[08:09:20] <heymaster> ahh.. though it's arduino channel
[08:10:14] <vectory_> nope :) maybe if you post the disassembly ;)
[08:11:19] <heymaster> what ?
[08:12:14] <heymaster> I'm just sending data with my app and don't recieve. it's simple echo app. If sending with arduino. I recieving
[08:12:58] <theBear> aww c'mon ffox, you won't do png OR .c ? c'mon !
[08:30:47] <edmont> i'm making consumption tests in an atmega128rfa1 and found that for active mode, without radio or peripherals, it drains 12 mA, when the theoretical is 4 mA
[08:31:50] <Kevin`> edmont: at the same voltage?
[08:31:59] <edmont> then i found that short-circuiting the ports pins consumption decreases until the theoretical, with all pins short-circuited between themselves
[08:32:04] <edmont> Kevin`: 3.3 V
[08:32:40] <Kevin`> edmont: enable the pullup (or buffer disable, although not all have that) on all pins that aren't connected to anything
[08:32:52] <Kevin`> on any chip of this sort, not just that one
[08:33:06] <edmont> Kevin`: i tried but not success
[08:33:29] <edmont> DDRB = 0x00000000;
[08:33:29] <edmont> PORTB = 0x11111111;
[08:33:38] <edmont> should be enough right?
[08:33:39] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: If it won't display a .c file, file a bug report
[08:34:13] <edmont> (for all ports)
[08:34:26] <Kevin`> edmont: 0xFF
[08:34:30] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, i'm not sure it's considered a bug or a feature
[08:34:33] <edmont> pffff
[08:34:35] <edmont> right!
[08:34:37] <Kevin`> 0x1111111 is a rather large number
[08:34:40] <Richard_Cavell> edmont: You mean 0b not 0x
[08:34:43] <edmont> XD
[08:34:47] <Richard_Cavell> And then 0b is not standard C
[08:34:48] <theBear> same with png, it hasn't displayed a link ending in png for a LONG time now
[08:34:50] <edmont> yes, my fault
[09:02:56] <edmont> Kevin`, Richard_Cavell: doesn't work neither
[09:05:16] <edmont> #include <avr/sleep.h>
[09:05:16] <edmont> int main(void) {
[09:05:16] <edmont> TRXPR = 1 << SLPTR;
[09:05:16] <edmont> DDRB = 0x00;DDRD = 0x00;DDRE = 0x00;DDRF = 0x00;DDRG = 0x00;
[09:05:16] <edmont> PORTB = 0xFF;PORTD = 0xFF;PORTE = 0xFF;PORTF = 0xFF;PORTG = 0xFF;
[09:05:16] <edmont> while(1){};
[09:05:16] <edmont> }
[09:05:23] <edmont> that's my program
[09:06:20] <Richard_Cavell> edmont: It's not standard C
[09:06:52] <Richard_Cavell> Go to ##c if you want some better method of using binary numbers in your code
[09:08:01] <edmont> well, i have more lines, but put several lines together here not to flood
[09:08:27] <edmont> PORTB = 0xFF; is not standard?
[09:14:31] <Richard_Cavell> No that is standard but it is hexadecimal
[09:14:45] <edmont> yes, but it's ok for my purpose
[09:15:19] <edmont> with that program all pins are supposed to be configured as inputs with pull-ups
[09:15:35] <edmont> but still get 12 mA consumption
[09:16:15] <grimes99> what do I need to read the position of an actuator? It is 36V Jaegar, motor says sensor -/+. Any pointers? thanks
[09:40:50] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac_afk,
http://pastebin.com/xqL4Zyb2
[09:40:57] <OndraSterver> generating triangle + inverse value of it
[09:40:58] <OndraSterver> on xmega
[09:40:59] <OndraSterver> HOW HARD!
[09:41:23] <karlp> so you have a dac, so what?
[09:41:37] <OndraSterver> "wanna fight about it?"
[09:41:48] <OndraSterver> just showing him how hard it is to work with DAC :P
[10:11:29] <theBear> hehe
[10:36:13] <Richard_Cavell> How much current does an atmega168 in DIP take at 5 volts when it has nothing in flash and is powered on using Vcc and AVcc? I'm getting 2 milliamps. Is that about right?
[10:37:07] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, not sure off the top of my head, but it's small enough that it will be HARD to measure accurately
[10:37:32] <Kevin`> the entire chip will be "active" like that, right? in a reset loop?
[10:37:39] <theBear> also with nothing in flash, it's operation is undefined, you'd be better with maybe a sleep or a infinite loop for a benchmark
[10:37:54] <theBear> or maybe reset loop like Kevin` says, either way, it's not a good indicator
[10:38:04] <Richard_Cavell> I'm not real sure about how my multimeter measures things. It puts up a decimal place but I'm not entirely sure what the actual magnitude of the reading is
[10:38:56] <Kevin`> also all the pins are digital inputs by default, which can cause unpredictable power usage
[10:39:08] <Richard_Cavell> well I know that they're all floating
[10:40:28] <Kevin`> right, and any noise input to the buffer can use it to rapidly change state and use power
[10:41:32] <Richard_Cavell> Also what do you guys think of using epoxy to stick everything down?
[10:41:42] <Richard_Cavell> I have all these wires that get in the way and they tend to rip out
[10:41:54] <Richard_Cavell> What I want is, once I know for certain they're connected correctly, stick 'em down
[10:42:16] <Kevin`> hot glue works fine and is reworkable (with some effort)
[10:42:24] <Kevin`> epoxy is forever
[10:42:26] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, epoxy is rather permanent... TINY amount of hotglue or even silicone, or even nailpolish, are MUCH better
[10:43:01] <Richard_Cavell> Is hotglue flexible?
[10:43:03] <theBear> and if there is ANY chance you EVER wanna change things, use a tiny dob, remember you don't gotta hold the entire wire/whatever end to end, just secure it strain-relief style
[10:43:16] <Kevin`> Richard_Cavell: yes
[10:43:21] <eric_j> Richard_Cavell, it's in the datasheet, section 30.1.
[10:43:24] <theBear> hotglue is SLIGHTLY bendy at room temp, but it tends to make a brittle join to other/harder things
[10:43:34] <Richard_Cavell> eric_j: ha! I didn't know that
[10:43:47] <theBear> so it's easy to 'break off' and still somewhat durable for small things like wires
[10:43:49] <Richard_Cavell> I'm not gonna change this circuit
[10:44:00] <Richard_Cavell> It's only a prototype for my own amusement
[10:44:05] <theBear> plus it's cheap and easy to apply
[10:44:11] <theBear> trust me, you'll change things :)
[10:44:24] <Richard_Cavell> really? You've seen a bug in my design and haven't told me?
[10:45:17] <theBear> no, but you'll see one sooner or later, or an upgrade/modification, or a miswired something... trust us :)
[10:45:34] <theBear> not to mention i work in repairs all day everyday, and well, things break, not always the ones you expect
[10:45:35] <Kevin`> hotglue is much easier to use than epoxy too
[10:45:38] <Kevin`> what's the downside
[10:45:49] <Richard_Cavell> downside is it's still flexible
[10:45:53] <eric_j> sometimes it takes a while for a wire to completely fail
[10:45:55] <Kevin`> why is that a problem in your design?
[10:46:08] <Richard_Cavell> because I've got all these wires all over the place and they tend to break
[10:46:32] <Richard_Cavell> Ive been using tinned copper to kind of squash them down
[10:46:42] <Richard_Cavell> solder the tinned copper directly to the veroboard
[10:47:30] <theBear> if they are breaking you are moving them too much or stripping them wrong
[10:47:55] <Kevin`> hot glue is fine for breaking wires. you want some flexibility for strain relief
[10:48:47] <theBear> at the connection end (when 'gooping' wires down) you want a little gap from solderjoint - goop , so the joint itself is strain relieved, then the wire on the other side of the goop can go any which way until it breaks all the internal strands
[10:49:01] <theBear> but EVEN THEN, the wire near the solder joint is intact
[10:49:19] <theBear> also what kinda wires you using ? maybe they're not durable (in the right way)
[10:50:52] <Richard_Cavell> well when I build my circuits I use 22 gauge
[10:51:07] <Richard_Cavell> But I have some 9v battery terminals that have brittle 24 gauge wires coming out and they break all the time
[10:54:00] <theBear> 22 gauge what ? single strand ? stranded ? what ?
[10:54:57] <eric_j> Richard_Cavell, if the wires will flex, they must be stranded. the gauge doesn't matter (i use 30 gauge all the time.)
[10:55:39] <Richard_Cavell> well they're not supposed to flex in the sense that my circuit doesn't physically flex once it's built
[10:56:18] <theBear> but obviously it's flexing a lot before it's built, maybe even during, which has to be considered
[11:20:43] <Parre> Hey! Is it possible to make a serial programmer with only resistors? I found a parallel port programmer with only resistors but can't find a serial port programmer. I need to whip something up quick :)
[11:21:17] <theBear> Parre, not unless you already got a chip programmed with a serial bootloader
[11:22:42] <Parre> okey. i have a AVR Pocket Programmer but it doesn't support the 256k bootloader i wanna program. i was hoping i could just solder e few resistors on a cable just like the parallel port version :/
[11:23:22] <OndraSterver> I think that there was some serial "bootstrap"
[11:23:24] <OndraSterver> option
[11:23:28] <OndraSterver> it was awfuly
[11:23:29] <OndraSterver> AWFULY
[11:23:31] <OndraSterver> AWWWFULY
[11:23:31] <OndraSterver> slow.
[11:23:49] <theBear> what is a pocket programmer ? why should programming a bootloader be any different to normal programming ?
[11:25:12] <Parre> It's a usbTiny compatible programmer. They can only program up to 64k if i'm not mistaken.
[11:25:30] <Parre> It does not support the Atmega2560 anyway.
[11:26:32] <Parre> http://www.myplace.nu/avr/yaap/if_jesper.gif <- That but with a serial port would be awesome :p
[11:28:32] <theBear> err, avr pocket programmer is a standard isp programmer compatible with avrdude, it should do ALL avrs
[11:29:07] <theBear> and apparently it's got a 2313 onbaord with usbtiny fw
[11:29:24] <Parre> From what i understadn the stk500 doesn't support atmega2560. it needs to be stk500v2.
[11:29:34] <eric_j> afaik all ISP AVR's are programmable the same with the same hardware
[11:29:45] * theBear is with eric on this one
[11:29:56] <Parre> It doesn't work. Tried to program it at least 50 times.
[11:30:02] <theBear> and you don't have a stk500, you got a usbtiny
[11:30:11] <Parre> avrdude uses stk500..
[11:31:10] <Parre> http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26091
[11:31:26] <theBear> i ain't taking reference material from ada site
[11:32:15] <theBear> according to the sparkfun site, it should be avrdude -c usbtiny
[11:34:32] <Parre> perhaps. it still doesn't work because it can't handle all that memory :p
[11:34:35] <theBear> if i WAS going to use ada for reference, i'd look at post feb 11, 2012, 11:35am and upgrade
[11:35:00] <theBear> also, it sounds like an exceedingly stupid design for a programmer
[11:35:17] <theBear> and that last post sounds promising too
[11:35:19] <Parre> That's why i asked for a design using the serial port :p
[11:35:45] <eric_j> Parre: you would need 5V zeners
[11:35:54] <theBear> and we told you, it ain't gonna happen
[11:36:00] <theBear> get a parallel port like a real man
[11:36:36] <Parre> yea, hitting some scrap heap tomorrow looking for an old computer. thx guys.
[11:36:57] <theBear> i still feel with the right cmdline, avrdude will do it with your programmer
[11:37:05] <theBear> but that may take MUCH longer than finding a parpot
[11:37:07] <theBear> port
[11:37:41] <Parre> spent the last week trying to program it. bought another programmer from china but it looks like it will take a few months to get it :p
[11:38:10] <theBear> heh, ask tom next time he here, he can get a programmer to just about anywhere MUCH quicker than taht, and probly cheaper AND with full support
[11:39:56] <Parre> $3.5 incl shipping is hard to beat but with the shipping time it might be worth paying a few more dollars. Kinda sucks though that i will be using this programmer once and i'm done.
[11:42:33] <theBear> mmm, that IS cheap... but yeah, what you said
[11:46:38] <karlp> hmm, I've used a fabisp, which is another usbtiny compat firmware to program mega2560s,
[11:46:48] <karlp> are you sure it wasn't your avrdude that was not supporting it?
[11:46:59] <karlp> at least, I remember doing it, may not have happened
[11:50:56] <Parre> pretty sure. tried a few different version on a few different computers.
[11:51:45] <theBear> how old is it ? perhaps it has ancient 'broken' firmware ? also if you are telling avrdude it's a stk instead of a usbtiny, that could be a hiccup point
[12:03:02] <Parre> no idea how old. not telling avrdude its a stk. doing: avrdude -c usbtiny -B 1 -patmega2560 -U flash:w:main.hex
[12:04:42] <karlp> try -B 1000000 if you're not sure you're setup works.
[12:04:59] <karlp> -B1 for a device that isn't ready for it just appears to fail.
[12:05:35] <theBear> then why did you say stk500 earlier ?
[12:05:49] <theBear> red herring ? pfft
[12:06:50] <Parre> works for everything under 64k. nothing above.
[12:17:15] <theBear> what is the error/what goes wrong ?
[12:19:09] <karlp> isn't that a firmware upgrade for the usbtiny device?
[12:20:40] <Parre> it says it can't verify but in reality it doesn't burn the whole bootloader.
[12:24:35] <theBear> karlp, no idea, and in answer to the other question on your mind, no idea :)
[12:25:09] <theBear> does it mention an address where it fails ? maybe with some verbose/debug flags ? btw, feel free to giveup, i'm just interested
[12:26:08] <karlp> usbtiny explicitly says only 64k/less,
[12:26:16] <karlp> so I guess that firmward upgrade hasn't been written yet .)
[12:32:58] <Parre> karlp: sees like it.
[12:34:48] <theBear> karlp, unless you use the blah blah block mode like that silly ada thread said
[12:51:17] <megal0maniac> Accelerometer will not suffice for an inclinometer...
[12:51:40] <megal0maniac> Detects Gs, but nothing that I can use for orientation
[12:53:34] <specing> get a giroooscope!
[12:53:59] <Kevin`> megal0maniac: you want to detect inclination in something that will be accellerating randomly?
[12:54:15] <megal0maniac> No, it won't be moving much at all. I just want an angle :)
[12:54:26] <Kevin`> megal0maniac: use a multi-axis accellerometer why not?
[12:54:33] <megal0maniac> Looks as though I'll need a gyro/accel combo board
[12:54:56] <Kevin`> a gyro can't provide absolute angle information, what would you use it for?
[12:55:01] <megal0maniac> Kevin`: Because the values hover around 50% unless there's movement
[12:55:14] <megal0maniac> Regardless of orientation
[12:55:28] <Kevin`> megal0maniac: do you have a high pass filter on it somehow? they SHOULD register gravity
[12:55:32] <Kevin`> or rather they can
[12:55:42] <megal0maniac> Stock standard, from the breakout
[12:55:44] <megal0maniac> Brb
[12:55:58] <Kevin`> megal0maniac: sparkfun doesn't always do sane things on their breakout boards
[12:56:00] <Kevin`> check,.
[13:04:49] <megal0maniac> Kevin`: Not do the chinese :P
[13:04:53] <megal0maniac> *Nor
[13:05:41] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, issues with the gyro/accel?
[13:08:16] <megal0maniac> Yeah
[13:08:25] <megal0maniac> Values only seem to change when there's motion
[13:08:39] <megal0maniac> It's a 7361 based board
[13:08:48] <megal0maniac> http://www.pololu.com/file/download/MMA7361LC.pdf?file_id=0J472
[13:09:50] <megal0maniac> Rather,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261007352323
[13:10:33] <megal0maniac> Didn't work at all to begin with, but then I discovered that sleep has to be driven high :P
[13:11:15] <Kevin`> looks like an analog device to me, and I don't see anything that immediately stands out as unusuable for gravity detection (espcially since it's designed to be usable for detecting the absense of gravity)
[13:11:23] <Kevin`> so check the board layout very carefully
[13:12:33] <megal0maniac> There doesn't seem to be much I can do differently, I'm connecting X Y and Z to ADC pins.
[13:12:41] <megal0maniac> I'll try again
[13:12:47] <Kevin`> well you could change or remove filter components from the board
[13:13:59] <Kevin`> the datasheet specifically mentions static accelleration conditions
[13:14:08] <Kevin`> the chip itself should work for this.
[13:15:30] <OndraSterver> Oh my, our linux teacher has used
[13:15:32] <OndraSterver> wait for it
[13:15:34] <OndraSterver> COMIC SANS MS
[13:15:39] <OndraSterver> *solaris
[13:15:43] <megal0maniac> I think I'm just not getting the values I'm expecting
[13:16:01] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: I saw a datasheet with comic sans yesterday
[13:16:29] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, I will try putting the xboard on indiegogo probably
[13:18:18] <megal0maniac> I can't get a value lower than 200
[13:18:38] <megal0maniac> And since Aref is 5V and this thing is 3v3, that's 200 out of 700
[13:19:37] <megal0maniac> And I can't test anymore because my 1117 is insistant on cooking itself :)
[13:19:55] <OndraSterver> huh?
[13:20:01] <OndraSterver> 1117 has 0.8A out :P
[13:20:10] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Don't ask
[13:20:14] <OndraSterver> lol
[13:20:40] <megal0maniac> It's one of those 5V / 3V3 breadboard power supplies
[13:20:59] <megal0maniac> And every now and then, one of the 1117s (not sure which) gets angry and hot
[13:22:14] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, so he actually went out of his way to install comic sans on his solaris/windows system?
[13:22:27] <Amadiro> or was his laptop/workstation windows
[13:22:39] <Amadiro> *solaris/linux
[13:26:29] <OndraSterver> well
[13:26:35] <OndraSterver> the stations he use are all thin clients
[13:26:40] <OndraSterver> connected to the solaris 7 years old crap
[13:26:44] <Amadiro> heh
[13:26:51] <megal0maniac> orly?
[13:26:54] <Amadiro> I think solaris is completely internal to oracle nowadays, isn't it
[13:27:13] <Amadiro> they don't support solaris for users or opensolaris anymore
[13:27:22] <Amadiro> (although I guess opensolaris might live on? I have no clue)
[13:27:54] <OndraSterver> no idea
[13:28:05] <specing> I tried openindiana
[13:28:15] <specing> left the virtual machine on for 1h
[13:28:28] <specing> came back and found out the keymap was fudged
[13:28:48] <specing> solaris is a joke.
[13:28:50] <OndraSterver> lol
[13:28:52] <OndraSterver> yes it is
[13:28:58] <OndraSterver> and it is not even remotely compatible with linux
[13:29:16] <specing> Linux doesen't have any competition in the UNIX world
[13:29:29] <OndraSterver> nope
[13:29:32] <OndraSterver> but some people think so
[13:29:40] <Amadiro> OpenSolaris is continued as "Illumos" now, apparently...
[13:30:00] <specing> Sun can recode solaris in java if the want so, but it still wont beat Linux
[13:30:18] <Amadiro> specing, *oracle
[13:30:39] <Amadiro> no clue if they really care about it, though
[13:30:53] <Amadiro> SPARC is not horribly widespread either
[13:31:05] <Amadiro> we have like 50 SPARC servers or so, but we run linux on all of them
[13:36:50] <specing> :)
[13:43:05] * megal0maniac falls asleep
[13:48:59] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac_afk, again? :D
[14:19:35] * RikusW is back on GPRS....
[14:19:50] <creep> h
[14:23:13] <Steffanx> I'm back on my chair
[14:23:31] * RikusW too :-P
[14:24:36] * specing sets up dialup for RikusW
[14:24:44] * specing limits it to 1400 baud
[14:24:45] <RikusW> already done :-P
[14:24:49] <RikusW> grrr
[14:24:55] <specing> 1200*
[14:25:07] <RikusW> 1200Mbps :-D
[14:25:37] <Steffanx> I bet you don't even know what to do with a speed like that :P
[14:25:49] * RikusW give specing dialup over VoIP :-P
[14:26:30] <Kevin`> dialup over voip can actually work, btw
[14:26:34] <RikusW> Steffanx: download every available torrent whether I need it or not ;)
[14:26:46] <Steffanx> Directly to /dev/null ? :)
[14:26:46] <Kevin`> not that there is a pressing reason for most people to use it
[14:26:47] <RikusW> Kevin`: have you tested it ?
[14:26:50] <Kevin`> RikusW: yes
[14:27:04] <RikusW> why would you do that ?
[14:27:42] <Kevin`> RikusW: to use a software bank of modems to provide access to people who have phone lines
[14:28:44] <RikusW> isn't dialup fairly uncommon these days ?
[14:28:54] <RikusW> even GPRS is faster
[14:28:57] <Kevin`> software doesn't exist in a usable form to do that, btw. the modulation is patented so winmodem software never really became useful
[14:30:21] <specing> Duh what?
[14:30:25] <specing> Voice Over IP
[14:30:42] <specing> Why on earth would someone tunnel dialup through that?
[14:30:58] <RikusW> security by obscurity ?
[14:31:25] <specing> no obscurity in VoIP
[14:31:45] <Kevin`> specing: again, to replace a modem bank. run a little server attached to the phone core network instead
[14:32:14] <RikusW> with softmodems....
[14:33:34] <Kevin`> almost everyone who ever used dialup used softmodems for it, because they are cheaper and are what comes with computers ;p
[14:33:53] <Kevin`> came with computers*
[14:34:03] <creep> who likes xilinx?
[14:34:10] <Kevin`> have we reached the point where cell towers are more common than copper wires in third-world countries, btw?
[14:34:47] <creep> cellphones are way cheaper than any wires
[14:35:24] <creep> and it would be possible to hack cellphones to talk with other cellphones without the network locally free.
[14:35:44] <Kevin`> it's possible, but it won't happen :)
[14:35:58] <creep> until somebody takes the time to hack one
[14:36:09] <creep> or, make one using some atmel uq, xilinx
[14:36:15] <creep> *up
[14:36:27] <Kevin`> it's illegal to use those frequency bands that way
[14:36:47] <Kevin`> and you can't use many others at high enough power to make it useful
[14:36:49] <creep> 2.5G is free
[14:38:12] <Kevin`> plus the network is useful for monitoring phone calls
[14:38:30] <Kevin`> what would you do if people stopped using it for most communication?
[14:38:55] <creep> it would only work for like... in the city, or a few kms
[14:39:05] <creep> doubt it would cause a large problem
[14:43:26] <OSterver> meh 2.4 gigs, use 5 lads!
[14:43:38] <OSterver> much less wifi networks there!
[14:44:06] <creep> mobile phone could use some wifi with high bandwidth
[14:44:49] <creep> and one could setup wifi access points for them everywhere
[14:45:02] <OSterver> http://choualbox.com/Img/20121021022917Q.gif
[14:48:41] <Steffanx> Why they make gifs from everything?
[14:48:49] <Steffanx> *every video
[14:51:02] <Blecha> Going to tinker with ASM tonight how different is AVR and x86?\
[14:51:45] <ColdKeyboard> Hi there, I want to set bits CLKPS1 and CLKPS0 to 1 in same line. Can I use something like CLKPR = (1<<CLKPS1) | (1<<CLKPS1); ?
[14:52:43] <Blecha> CLKPR = (1<<CLKPS1) | (1<<CLKPS0);
[14:52:45] <Blecha> yes
[14:52:53] <Blecha> but it should be
[14:53:00] <Blecha> CLKPR |= (1<<CLKPS1) | (1<<CLKPS0);
[14:53:04] <creep> Blecha<< in C, no difference i assume... in asm, it has risc instructions
[14:53:08] <Blecha> so you dont set everything all crazy
[14:53:17] <creep> Blecha<< no, this is not pic
[14:53:21] <Blecha> creep thanks, what should I start with
[14:53:29] <Blecha> x86?
[14:53:36] <OndraSterver> blecha, x86 and AVR are completely different
[14:53:44] <Blecha> kk then fuck it
[14:53:44] <OndraSterver> asm
[14:53:45] <creep> Blecha<< blinking leds? everybody starts with that
[14:53:53] <OndraSterver> x86 asm is awful btw
[14:54:05] <Blecha> Im mostly doing it to understand my C better
[14:54:09] <Blecha> not going to make anything in it
[14:54:10] <OndraSterver> just as ARMv9 ASM with all the crap
[14:54:25] <creep> Blecha<< linux is mainly written in C, so you can do that too
[14:54:37] <Blecha> yeah I have been learning C for awhile
[14:54:44] <Blecha> and I took a minecraft binge break
[14:54:49] <OndraSterver> heh minecraft.
[14:54:58] <OndraSterver> also,
http://myxboard.net/doc/clocks.html
[14:55:01] <Amadiro> Blecha, x86 is gonna hang around for a while, so learning that would probably not be a bad investion of time
[14:55:04] <Amadiro> other than that, ARM
[14:55:06] <Blecha> My interest is peaked again so I want to do something tonight
[14:55:32] <Blecha> yeah 64 mostly backwards compatible
[14:55:52] <Blecha> was curious about AVR before Ondra reminded me its RISC
[14:55:53] <OndraSterver> long mode can run protected mode stuff
[14:55:55] <RikusW> Blecha if you understand x86 asm AVR asm will be quite easy
[14:56:00] <OndraSterver> AVR asm is eassyyyy
[14:56:05] <ColdKeyboard> thank you Blecha, I just saw your answer
[14:56:12] <OndraSterver> I have done big project in it
[14:56:14] <Blecha> np
[14:56:18] <OndraSterver> just 'cos the speed gain
[14:56:23] <OndraSterver> couldn't waste single instruction!
[14:56:28] <OndraSterver> I couldn't*
[14:56:45] <OndraSterver> a big project*
[14:56:54] <OndraSterver> a fucking an english.
[14:56:56] <creep> the old 2051 series atmel asm reminded me to x86
[14:56:58] <RikusW> Blecha as OndraSterver said AVR is is really easy
[14:57:03] <OndraSterver> with all the a/an/the/..
[14:57:03] <Blecha> I just can't think of any fun projects that dont involve planning/building stuff
[14:57:03] <creep> i liked it
[14:57:15] <Blecha> or crazy math problems
[14:57:19] <OndraSterver> ZOMG MATH
[14:57:19] <OndraSterver> NOOO
[14:57:22] <creep> but C is definitely shorter/simpler to handle
[14:57:24] <Blecha> I love math
[14:57:25] <OndraSterver> math analysis, limits, all this crap, NO
[14:57:28] <OndraSterver> just NO.
[14:57:30] <RikusW> Blecha do you know x86 asm ?
[14:57:41] <Blecha> Nope, going to "learn" it tonight
[14:57:59] <RikusW> AVR asm is much simpler
[14:58:04] <Blecha> never going to actually learn it well enough to code solely in ASM but its good to understand
[14:58:21] <RikusW> I actually wrote an AVR assembler :)
[14:58:32] <RikusW> just need to add symbolic support...
[14:58:44] <OndraSterver> does it work as good as atmel's avr-asm? :P
[14:58:51] <Blecha> Thats the other reason, im curious about compiling and processor architecture
[14:59:02] <RikusW> OndraSterver: only single instructions
[14:59:07] <Blecha> purely a curiousity thing that will get me going
[14:59:10] <RikusW> and jmp label doesn't work yet...
[14:59:53] <Amadiro> Blecha, here's a fun math problem: Prove that the cofinite topology is not hausdorff
[15:00:08] <OndraSterver> haha
[15:00:12] <OndraSterver> enjoy ya'll
[15:00:46] <Amadiro> It's not a hard problem, but it's interesting because it highlights the extremely weird properties of cofinite-topological spaces.
[15:01:12] <OndraSterver> yeah
[15:01:13] <OndraSterver> enjoy.
[15:01:23] <Blecha> I dont want to do that right now, already getting my brain back up to speed on calc and moving forward in linear algebra
[15:01:45] <RikusW> Amadiro: model the platinum atoms in vapor deposition :-P
[15:01:47] <Blecha> I mostly just want to code some code with a code because that minecraft binge made me feel super lazy
[15:01:55] <Amadiro> oh well, you'll get to this problem in like two years of time anyway, then.
[15:01:58] <RikusW> thats what my brother is doing...
[15:02:16] <RikusW> a 1ns similation takes hours of CPU time
[15:02:17] <Amadiro> Assuming you'll take top
[15:02:19] <RikusW> or was that weeks...
[15:02:24] <creep> Blecha<< you could rip out some 5-6 wire spepper motors from some old printer and connect to the microcontroller using 4 transistors in addition to the led ad make it step
[15:02:33] <OndraSterver> blecha, talking about Minecraft - I built huge underwater railway that has got glass blocks so you can see the water and all the crap floating in the water :P
[15:02:39] <Amadiro> RikusW, yeh, I've written physical simulations that were in similar orders of magnitude of slowness
[15:03:04] * OndraSterver suggests CDROM motors too, they are fun!
[15:03:09] <Blecha> www.reddit.com/r/hardcoresmp My little tower built on a hardcore server is labeled "Sandy Bay"
[15:03:10] <creep> hehehe
[15:03:24] <Blecha> OOO
[15:03:27] <Blecha> I know what i wanna make
[15:03:32] <Blecha> that ive been putting off
[15:03:36] <creep> OndraSterver<< did you do that?
[15:03:39] <Amadiro> I wrote one for simulation of static frictions through modelling of micro-rifts in surface physics, which I ran on a 64-core machine for a few weeks to simulate 2 seconds
[15:03:45] <creep> OndraSterver<< the cdrom main drive motor?
[15:03:58] <OndraSterver> ye
[15:04:03] <OndraSterver> it should be stepper, no?
[15:04:04] <Blecha> I want to make a physics sim that supports rolling and wheels!!!
[15:04:06] <RikusW> Amadiro: nice
[15:04:11] <creep> OndraSterver<< well, you can step it
[15:04:17] <creep> but no
[15:04:20] <OndraSterver> hmm
[15:04:24] <OndraSterver> I thought those were steppers :(
[15:04:28] <creep> ;>
[15:04:34] <Blecha> I saw a picture somewhere that discussed the physics of rolling
[15:04:49] <Blecha> and that was the wall I hit in my physics code from before
[15:04:51] <Amadiro> Blecha, it's pretty much the hardest part
[15:04:53] <creep> OndraSterver<< actually they are ment to be driven pwm-in correct phase
[15:05:03] <Amadiro> for like a normal game-purpose physics engine
[15:05:06] <OndraSterver> oh
[15:05:07] <Blecha> i could do gravity and bouncing and drag
[15:05:18] <Amadiro> ignoring that you can spend a lot of time fine-tuning things like detangling/depenetration
[15:05:19] <creep> OndraSterver<< you have 3 position sensing hall sensors in it
[15:05:22] <Blecha> 2d rolling friction btw
[15:06:00] <creep> OndraSterver<< you need 3 comparators to get digital position signal out of them, then apply the correct polarity to the 3 phases
[15:06:27] <Blecha> Amadiro is it really that hard?
[15:06:45] <Amadiro> Blecha, well, I think the rotational kinematics are the hardest.
[15:06:59] <Amadiro> like concept-wise
[15:07:09] <Amadiro> as I said, there are a lot of other things that you can spend tons of time finetuning on
[15:07:19] <Amadiro> like hit-detection-pre-pruning, depenetration and whatnot
[15:07:36] <Blecha> I could also give AI another go, last time I ended up just making a really cool fish sim that didn't actually use AI but pseudo random numbers and trig to convert between polar and cartesian coordinates
[15:08:00] <Blecha> still had a decent algorithm to determine if it should run or eat food
[15:08:00] <creep> OndraSterver<< or you can even run them "sensorless" like R/C guys do i aeroplanes, yeah, the hacked cd motor can lift up a plane in the air using lithium batteries...
[15:08:10] <creep> *in
[15:08:11] <OndraSterver> wow nice
[15:08:36] <Blecha> brb
[15:10:14] <Kevin`> sensorless control is more complicated than using hall effect sensors though
[15:10:28] <Kevin`> sure it's possible, but, if you don't know what you are getting into, beware :)
[15:13:45] <creep> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140454
[15:17:46] <Blecha> Project ideas: asm tinkering, automatic pastebin identity theft notifier, physics sim, or some kind of AI
[15:18:16] <Roklobsta> do the last one first so it can do the rest
[15:18:26] <Blecha> brilliant
[15:25:38] <creep> Kevin`<< for some reason, guys usually use sensorless controllers for aeroplanes
[15:28:28] <Kevin`> creep: the motors are sensorless
[15:29:03] <Kevin`> although I suppose that doesn't entirely answer thigns. but they work and you have a lot less wires running to the motor
[15:29:06] <creep> and i assume because they like to run them hot, and sensors would burn
[15:29:25] <Kevin`> aeroplanes get plenty of cooling
[15:30:00] <creep> but if they push it hard they get 100C+
[15:30:13] <Kevin`> sensors can work in that
[15:30:22] <Kevin`> I suspect you'd burn the wire insulation first
[15:30:22] <creep> you can see many motors with 150-200C rated magnets
[15:30:32] <creep> insulations can take 180C
[15:33:12] <creep> also, every g counts on an aeroplane
[15:33:43] <creep> and runnig a motor hot means more power on the same motor ;/
[15:56:23] <creep> any hackers here?
[15:56:53] <prpplague> hehe
[15:58:04] <creep> i like to hack things out of thrown out computer stuff
[15:58:27] <OndraSterver> define hack
[15:58:36] <OndraSterver> breadboarding P III CPU?
[15:59:28] <creep> hacking something is the ability to use it for other things it is capable of with usually the knowledge of how it works, what is it made of
[15:59:37] <Kevin`> computers DO have lots of useful electronics stuff in them
[15:59:52] <OndraSterver> creep, I know what hacking is. But define it what do you grab from computers :P
[15:59:56] <Kevin`> not usually the computer parts, since those aren't documented or easily usable directly
[15:59:58] <OndraSterver> and reusing
[16:00:00] <Kevin`> but all the support circuitry
[16:00:05] <creep> so, a hacker usually knows everything about the specific hardware/software and can use to whatever
[16:00:57] <Blecha> ram from video cards can be fun
[16:01:10] <OndraSterver> BGA?
[16:01:13] <Blecha> just ram chips in general
[16:01:14] <creep> OndraSterver<< stepper motors, shafts, bearings, fets, ics, resistors, capacitors
[16:01:37] <OndraSterver> well, I usually cope with the fact that they are either without any numbers or the numbers do not return any datasheet results
[16:01:38] <Blecha> fans
[16:01:40] <Kevin`> the motherboard fets are particularly interesting. logic level and very high current
[16:01:40] <Blecha> heat sinks
[16:02:00] <Kevin`> power supply has optocouplers and a precision voltage reference, at minimum
[16:02:02] <Blecha> OndraSterver you are missing out on the fun of detective work then
[16:02:12] <creep> Kevin`<< yeah i started recycling dead motherboards to get some
[16:02:14] <Kevin`> (and it's own set of fets and capacitors and amplifiers and ..)
[16:02:49] * Blecha adds breadboard a P III to his list of crazy things to do when he is all alone and old
[16:02:50] <creep> power supply? they usually have a TL494
[16:03:07] <OndraSterver> power supplies quite often blow up
[16:03:09] <creep> that has some internal votlage reference around 5V...
[16:03:15] <OndraSterver> and I don't want to bother trying to test what works and what does not
[16:03:19] <OndraSterver> I just cut the wires, fan, ..
[16:03:31] <OndraSterver> desolder caps that are good, inductors
[16:03:33] <OndraSterver> heatsinks
[16:04:00] <creep> so what do you make from them?
[16:04:18] <creep> a robot arm? :)
[16:04:20] <OndraSterver> :D
[16:04:43] <creep> i think i could assemble a robot arm from dead computer parts
[16:04:54] <OndraSterver> and one or two printers
[16:04:58] <creep> yes
[16:05:06] <creep> but even without
[16:05:16] <creep> strength-speed matter
[16:05:42] <creep> you can write a program in brainfuck too if you really want
[16:05:47] <OndraSterver> no thanks
[16:08:35] <Blecha> lolcode
[16:09:02] <OndraSterver> I wanted to make a brainfuck powered 7400-based computer
[16:09:04] <OndraSterver> well, "computer"
[16:09:19] <creep> i think the hardest part is actually calibrating/using a robot arm ;/
[16:09:34] <OndraSterver> just ask specing, he has ordered TI's new ARM
[16:09:38] <OndraSterver> Cortex M4F :P
[16:09:39] <OndraSterver> Stellaris
[16:09:48] <creep> how about an ATMEL ATmega ?
[16:10:05] <OndraSterver> why not
[16:10:11] <timemage> OndraSterver, wonder if sun .rrr oracle is complaining about that name.
[16:10:30] <OndraSterver> maybe xmega even, higher clock, hardware encoders 'n such stuff, creep
[16:10:37] <OndraSterver> and cheaper for the same amount of flash :P
[16:10:42] <creep> use a xilinx
[16:10:58] <OndraSterver> NO
[16:11:02] <creep> :)
[16:11:02] <OndraSterver> I hate those "IDEs"
[16:11:06] <OndraSterver> 2GB download
[16:11:07] <creep> mee too
[16:11:08] <OndraSterver> 1TB installed
[16:11:11] <creep> and they cost a fortune
[16:11:15] <OndraSterver> Quartus is free
[16:11:15] <creep> hahaha
[16:11:17] <creep> no
[16:11:21] <OndraSterver> unless you are doing 1500 pins package
[16:11:23] <creep> it is 6GB currently
[16:11:24] <creep> !
[16:11:28] <Blecha> stop all this talk of FPGAs
[16:11:32] <creep> ~10GB installed
[16:11:35] <Blecha> you are going to make me feel even more broke
[16:11:35] <OndraSterver> hehe
[16:11:40] <OndraSterver> I remember downloading it
[16:11:46] <OndraSterver> but don't remember how much it was
[16:11:52] <creep> oh and they are broken mostly on linux
[16:11:59] <OndraSterver> they work fine on windows :P
[16:12:05] <OndraSterver> even with chinese $5 programmer!
[16:12:07] <OndraSterver> usb altera blaster
[16:12:08] <creep> possible
[16:12:17] <Blecha> windows shouldn't be at hing
[16:12:21] <Blecha> a thing*
[16:12:36] <creep> win should have died after they sold it first :(
[16:12:38] <OndraSterver> why?
[16:12:54] <Blecha> because we have better options now
[16:13:05] <OndraSterver> yeah.... surrrrrrre
[16:13:11] <Blecha> originally it had a place for regular users
[16:13:24] <creep> i remember in 2002 there stil lweren't any good linux, but since internet is everywhere linux gets better
[16:13:24] <Blecha> now my own mother uses ubuntu and gets by just fine
[16:14:06] <creep> uh the first suse linux i got and tried was a useless junk ;<
[16:14:35] <creep> and it was sold in shops for $40
[16:14:55] <Blecha> mexican dollars?
[16:15:08] <creep> us
[16:15:37] <creep> or 29 euros
[16:16:09] <Blecha> with inflation thats like $600000
[16:16:16] <creep> haha
[16:16:47] <Blecha> i think really fast inflation would be fun at first
[16:17:05] <Blecha> people good at math could make a quick buck
[16:17:07] <creep> yeah and you can't buy yourself food
[16:17:41] <Blecha> invest in food first then
[16:17:53] <Kevin`> Blecha: being good at math wouldn't help when the solution is a reset
[16:17:54] <Blecha> sell your food for millions!
[16:17:55] <creep> food will go bad in some time ;/
[16:18:11] <creep> 2 years?
[16:18:26] <Kevin`> the money you get from selling food won't be useful for anything. the most useful thing you'd have is the food
[16:18:30] <creep> only honey will last for 2000 years and still good
[16:18:46] <creep> oh, and macdonald's hamburger, but that's not food
[16:18:47] <creep> ;>>
[16:19:37] <Blecha> McDonalds: now in the same room as beef!
[16:20:34] <creep> do you really think its beef you are eating? ( or even meat )
[16:20:58] <Blecha> Its kinda like beef
[16:21:06] <Blecha> it tastes like a dead animal
[16:21:09] <creep> yeah, that is what matters
[16:21:28] <creep> but it also has some addictive drug in it
[16:21:37] <Blecha> lol wut?
[16:21:44] <Blecha> inb4 tinfoil hat
[16:21:47] <creep> haha you didn't know?
[16:23:06] <vectory_> like there are non addictive drugs?
[16:23:16] <OndraSterver> tea?
[16:23:22] <Blecha> Hallucinagens
[16:23:27] <Blecha> sp?
[16:23:50] <Blecha> You will forget how to do drugs before you can really get addicted
[16:24:27] <vectory_> yeah well, hamburgers taste a lot of paper anyways, dont wanna know how they do the buns
[16:25:31] <vectory_> i worked in for a printing company before and the recycled paper smells a lot like hamburgers
[16:26:13] <creep> http://www.hungryforchange.tv/top-10-food-additives-to-avoid
[16:26:31] <creep> http://www.weightlossforall.com/junk-food-obesity-x.htm
[16:26:48] <vectory_> why fetch that far, what about sugar?
[16:26:51] <creep> MSG is a legal drug eaten and drunk by you for example in hamburgers and coke and many junk
[16:27:23] <Blecha> vectory_ is right
[16:27:30] <Blecha> regular sodium and sugar are addictive
[16:27:53] <creep> you mean salt? salt is needed.
[16:28:13] <Blecha> Just because its needed doesn't mean it can't be addictive or bad
[16:28:25] <creep> though the cyanides they put in most salts are not
[16:28:41] <Blecha> glad i said inb4 tinfoil hat :P
[16:29:00] <creep> wasnt a joke anyway
[16:29:06] <OndraSterver> I thought that walking around the city with a tinfoil hat on your head is normal?
[16:29:09] <Blecha> The world is a scary place full of things to kill you or harm you.
[16:29:23] <creep> Blecha<< yeah, snakes everywhere
[16:29:29] <OndraSterver> SNAKES
[16:29:31] <OndraSterver> and SPIDERS!
[16:29:36] <vectory_> you know, you werent in before, you saw it coming a long way and only then said it
[16:29:38] * OndraSterver is NOT going to the 'STRALYA
[16:29:39] <Blecha> and chuck norris
[16:29:41] <creep> Grissom would love that
[16:30:06] <creep> bugs and stuff
[16:31:08] <creep> soo, everyone c0ding ?
[16:32:36] <Blecha> I am going to be soon
[16:32:39] <Blecha> off work :D
[17:31:57] <JViz> what is the prescribed way to debug a project using LUFA?
[17:32:42] <JViz> uart?
[17:33:15] <Kevin`> JViz: uart works, jtag/equivalent works (although disrupting usb to use it), uart OVER usb works..
[17:34:12] <Kevin`> on my most recent project I just used a combination of a cdc uart and my actual config
[17:34:31] <Kevin`> works automatically on linux, may be problematic on windows though
[17:58:00] <jadew> has anyone bought stuff off of alibaba.com?
[17:58:15] <jadew> their prices are so freaking low
[17:58:51] <jadew> sometimes you're better off buying 100 pieces of a chip than 1 from your regular store
[18:01:07] <Horologium> never heard of them myself.
[18:03:23] <vectory_> alibaba is like ebay of sorts
[18:03:32] <Horologium> that's what it is looking like.
[18:03:38] <Horologium> ebay for commercial distributors.
[18:04:13] <jadew> yeah, but I think you can get 100 of something and should be ok
[18:04:21] <jadew> take this for example:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=AD8056ANZ
[18:04:37] <jadew> you'd pay $1 for 100
[18:04:52] <jadew> if I were to buy it from my normal supply store, I'd pay $4, for 1!
[18:05:30] <jadew> wth... I can buy 400 of those for that price
[18:06:03] <Horologium> what is that part anyhow?
[18:06:12] <jadew> it's a high speed op amp
[18:06:21] <Horologium> aahh.
[18:06:31] <Horologium> I have a couple hundred 50MHz opamps here somewhere.
[18:06:32] <vectory_> gotta hope its not counterfeit
[18:06:34] <jadew> 300Mhz, 1400V/uS slew rate and 20ns settling time at 0.1%
[18:07:13] <jadew> vectory_, I guess that could be a concern, but I think if it is, it's probably made at the same factory :)
[18:07:26] <vectory_> thats not what counterfeit implies
[18:07:45] <vectory_> i mean poor quality
[18:08:16] <jadew> I know, but I don't think that's really possible with chips
[18:08:36] <jadew> I don't think they could build the chip if they didn't know everything about it
[18:08:42] <jadew> and had everything in place
[18:08:57] <jadew> so it's probably done with the same technology and at the same factory that does the original ones
[18:09:17] <jadew> so... for all intents and purposes, even if it's built behind the back of whoever makes them
[18:09:18] <Horologium> or they get cheap lower speed opamps and put the wrong markings on them.
[18:09:24] <jadew> they should still be "original"
[18:09:39] <jadew> hehe, I hope not, I'm gonna test it I receive them
[18:09:43] <jadew> I think I'm gonna get 100 of those
[18:12:07] <vectory_> i see you getting bare dies xD
[18:14:22] <vectory_> there is even one offering 0.1c per 10/pc
[18:14:45] <jadew> heh
[18:14:51] <jadew> some are scams
[18:14:54] <jadew> I just googled it
[18:15:03] <jadew> so you have to look for the gold suppliers
[18:16:18] <vectory_> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/599481789/AD8056ANZ.html just look at the avatar
[18:17:05] <jadew> I think that price means 1c per piece
[18:17:09] <jadew> when you're buying 10
[18:17:22] <jadew> wait
[18:17:24] <jadew> 10 cents
[18:17:28] <jadew> that's expensive :P
[18:17:46] <jadew> wonder what other goodies I can find there
[18:18:22] <vectory_> jadew: and i really think 0.01$ is for maximum quantity
[18:18:44] <jadew> US $ 0.01 - 100 / Piece
[18:18:49] <jadew> why would it say 100 then?
[18:19:44] <vectory_> it means (0.01..100)$/piece
[18:20:02] <jadew> can't be $100
[18:20:28] <vectory_> why not, another has US $10-100 / Piece
[18:20:43] <jadew> yeah, but 1 cent to $100... :)
[18:21:22] <jadew> so what... you get a 1000000% discount if you buy more? :P
[18:21:38] <vectory_> maybe thats to let it look like just what we thought it ment
[18:21:59] <jadew> I'll figure it out when I get to the checkout, I'm looking for other cool stuff now
[18:22:03] <jadew> wish this is for real
[18:22:18] <jadew> I heard about the site before, so it could be
[18:23:16] <vectory_> i just heard it was bought, dont remember whom it was
[18:26:03] <jadew> well, equipment is as expensive as anywhere else
[18:28:55] <jadew> I think I'll still buy the stuff I need from my local supplier cuz I want to get on this project this week and then order some stuff from alibaba to have them whenever i need them
[18:29:48] <vectory_> im sure youll let us know
[18:29:55] <jadew> I will
[18:35:10] <vectory_> gn8
[18:36:57] <Horologium> order what you need now locally and what you need next year from alibaba, eh?
[18:38:38] <jadew> vectory_, night
[18:38:43] <jadew> Horologium, hehe something like that
[18:43:20] <JViz> what i think that means is 0.01 for 100 pieces
[18:43:34] <JViz> er, per 100
[18:43:52] <JViz> so if you bought 100, it would be 0.01 per piece, in increments of 100
[18:44:18] <jadew> yeah
[18:44:31] <JViz> $1 for 100, $100 for 10,000
[18:45:30] <JViz> they don't speak very good english on alibaba, and they're all on chinese time
[18:46:00] <jadew> I noticed they're all from china
[18:46:14] <JViz> you can find most of them online at like 2am-3am EST
[18:47:29] <JViz> they're always going to try to sell you like 10K units
[18:47:54] <JViz> from what i hear, they don't do much QA either
[18:48:01] <JViz> you're on your own with that
[18:48:26] <jadew> so you can't buy directly from the site?
[18:48:39] <jadew> like.. with out having any contact with them?
[18:52:07] <vectory_> nope, thats what inquiry stands for
[18:52:26] <vectory_> though i thought it would mean a lot of bargain.
[18:52:35] <vectory_> and yes, not asleep yet ;(
[18:53:14] <jadew> well, I could do 1000 pieces at 1 cent
[18:53:25] <jadew> wonder what the postage would be tho
[18:53:40] <jadew> wth am I to do with 1000 op amps?
[18:53:48] <JViz> they are coming from china, so a lot, and it's slow
[18:55:44] <Horologium> jadew, make 1000 little speaker amps and put them all over your house!
[18:55:57] <jadew> haha
[18:56:07] <Horologium> you will need microcontrollers too, however.
[18:56:11] <Horologium> with motion sensors.
[18:56:25] <Horologium> so it will track your movement and do sound only where you are.
[18:56:36] <jadew> and a few free months to solder them
[18:56:40] <Horologium> with full sound damping too so only you can hear it and nobody else around does.
[18:56:47] <jadew> I should place the order for 1000 pcb's as well
[18:57:12] <Horologium> or just an active noise cancellation system so your wife's voice gets canceled out.
[18:57:37] <Horologium> like the active noise cancellation system I saw demoed on a D-9 Cat bulldozer some years back.
[18:57:41] <jadew> haha, sounds like a productive project
[18:57:54] <jadew> it really worked?
[18:57:57] <Horologium> they started the thing up and it was LOUD.
[18:58:01] <Horologium> then turned on the noise cancellation
[18:58:16] <jadew> big speakers tho, right?
[18:58:16] <Horologium> and only the rumble you could feel and the smoke from the exhaust told you it was running.
[18:58:27] <jadew> damn
[18:58:28] <Horologium> bunch of small ones mounted all over it I think.
[19:00:37] <Horologium> I heard a rumor that some stealth aircraft makers experimented with similar systems to cancel out engine noise in flight
[19:01:53] <jadew> kinda hard to do that
[19:02:47] <Horologium> kinda hard to make a multiple tonne aircraft have a radar cross section of a grapefruit too but they did it.
[19:02:55] <jadew> I suppose they weren't trying it on supersonic planes :)
[19:03:06] <Horologium> dunno.
[19:03:48] <Horologium> I also remember something about active surface work on supersonic systems which is just a variation of the same theme, only making the plane fit the supersonic envelope rather than just force through it.
[19:06:01] <jadew> don't think it can be done, because either way you put it, air will get displaced at a supersonic speed, which means it will get compressed and it will decompress again
[19:39:32] <JViz> Kevin`: uart over usb with LUFA? that's what the VirtualSerial class is for, right?
[19:40:38] <JViz> I'm already using other LUFA USB classes. I'd have to figure out how to integrate them, it doesn't seem like an easy task
[19:41:50] <Horologium> JViz, yes, that is correct.
[19:42:04] <Horologium> what OS are you using to connect to?
[19:44:27] <Horologium> so long as you get full speed USB then CDC should work fine on linux, windows, or mac.
[19:44:30] <JViz> windows 7 at the moment
[19:45:38] <Horologium> as LUFA uses the hardware USB on certain AVR microcontrollers it should be fine.
[19:47:12] <JViz> how do i know if i've used too many clock cycles for lufa to work?
[19:47:59] <Horologium> umm...it doesn't work?
[19:48:24] <JViz> i don't know where my problem is, actually
[19:48:29] <JViz> heh
[19:48:52] <Horologium> start with something real simple...CDC echo...and work up from there maybe.
[19:49:01] <Horologium> I've never used LUFA myself.
[19:49:03] <JViz> CDC echo?
[19:49:14] <Horologium> send a byte to it and have it echo the byte back.
[19:49:29] <hackvana> Change the case for good measure :-)
[19:49:35] <Horologium> yeah.
[19:49:42] <hackvana> Then you really know the bytes have gone all the way
[19:49:43] <Horologium> that works too.
[19:50:12] <JViz> i think LUFA works differently now
[19:50:13] <Horologium> doing that you get to know that your hardware works and the basics of the software is working.
[19:50:23] <Horologium> then you build from there.
[19:58:33] <hackvana> Start from "known good"
[20:03:49] <JViz> that's the problem, i had to move my project to the LUFA build environment
[20:04:02] <JViz> now it's kind of like i'm searching for "known good"
[20:04:15] <Horologium> start with something very very basic
[20:04:27] <JViz> hmmm
[20:04:28] <JViz> ok
[20:04:30] <JViz> yeah
[20:04:33] <JViz> i have an idea!
[20:04:34] <Horologium> you might have a big project to work on.
[20:04:35] <JViz> heh
[20:04:47] <Horologium> but start with very basic and use that as a framework to build on.
[20:05:12] <Horologium> look at and/or play with some of the examples if there are any.
[20:05:27] <Horologium> never having used LUFA I don't know what is available for it.
[20:05:42] <Horologium> for AVR I usually just use vUSB which is a whole other world.
[20:10:32] <JViz> vUSB seems a lot more limited than LUFA
[20:14:30] <hackvana> V-USB: It is what it is.
[20:14:51] <hackvana> I use V-USB
[20:15:06] <hackvana> If you can accept its limitations, it works well.
