#avr | Logs for 2012-10-20

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[00:02:58] <Richard_Cavell> okay folks, does the AVR have an internal pull-down for input pins?
[00:03:16] <Richard_Cavell> As in, if I have an input pin that's just floating, can I rely on it to read 0?
[00:17:10] <eric_j> Richard_Cavell, nope
[01:29:01] <RikusW> Tom_itx: if I've registered a channel and deop, I'll be able to op again ?
[01:29:11] * RikusW is toying a bit with chanserv
[01:35:11] <jadew> I'm about to give the link for the olsfront on the ols forums, any toughts on the project page? http://dumb.ro/lafront/
[01:40:52] <RikusW> looks good
[01:44:30] <jadew> thanks
[01:44:30] <jadew> the file is broken
[01:44:30] <RikusW> have you provided a way to dump serial data to a file ?
[01:44:30] <jadew> like... the decoded data?
[01:44:30] <RikusW> yes
[01:44:30] <jadew> not yet, I was planning to make an export dialog
[01:44:30] <RikusW> that would be nice to have
[01:44:30] <jadew> that allows you to select which Buses and what to export
[01:44:30] <jadew> btw, if anyone downloaded the file, it was missing a file, now it's complete
[01:44:30] <RikusW> I don't have the hw....
[01:44:30] <RikusW> might get it sometime though
[01:44:30] <jadew> oh, btw, you can copy the decoded data, but it comes with all the other info as well
[01:44:30] <jadew> like channel name, time, bus name
[01:44:30] <jadew> well, I still stand by my initial impression, it could use some more memory
[01:44:30] <jadew> it's fine when debugging most stuff
[01:44:30] <RikusW> so why the decision to keep it closed source ?
[01:44:38] <jadew> personal libraries that I don't want to opensource
[01:44:47] <RikusW> ah
[01:44:56] <jadew> not a big fan of the whole opensource thing anyway
[01:45:13] <jadew> I like sharing code for the purpose of learning, but I don't enjoy sharing work :)
[01:45:17] <RikusW> and then there would be the version control nightmare...
[01:45:58] <jadew> yeah, it doesn't have many advantages
[01:46:17] <jadew> especially since most people don't give a rat's ass on the code
[01:46:38] <RikusW> as for Rtk I'll probably have to document it sometime and specify exactly how to add controls and skins
[01:47:08] <RikusW> err the skinning code doesn't even exist atm ;)
[01:47:24] <jadew> I think you'll enjoy working on that
[01:47:29] <RikusW> yeah
[01:47:37] <jadew> the crappy part will be making all the controls use it :)
[01:47:47] <RikusW> already done, sort of
[01:47:55] <jadew> ah nice
[01:48:05] <RikusW> there is a drawer function pointer in all controls
[01:48:15] <RikusW> err actually a class pointer now
[01:48:42] <RikusW> managing those to change skins on the fly still needs to be done
[01:48:55] <RikusW> I could for example only change a single button's skin
[01:48:58] <jadew> you could have the skin as a global object
[01:49:06] <jadew> so no :P
[01:49:24] <jadew> yeah, I suppose having that option helps at times
[01:49:55] <RikusW> the tabcontrol bar is actually a lot of radio buttons, reskinned as toggle buttons ;)
[01:51:29] <RikusW> I might even add changing between xlib and opengl drawing on the fly...
[01:51:41] <RikusW> will see how feasible that is later
[01:52:21] <RikusW> probably will need a change of all drawer pointers, aka a reskin
[01:52:56] <jadew> not necesarily
[01:53:09] <jadew> depends on how you issue the drawing events
[01:53:34] <jadew> but if you provide the device context from the main thing, you're golden
[01:54:11] <jadew> you just have to change the thing that does the actual drawing, inside the device context
[01:55:46] <RikusW> device context is windows, xlib got a GC graphics context
[01:56:19] <RikusW> anyways I'll cross that bridge when I get there
[01:56:38] <RikusW> for now it works on gdi and xlib
[01:56:50] <jadew> nice
[01:57:12] <RikusW> I'll get hold of macos sometime too, and port it to that
[01:57:26] <RikusW> maybe xlib will be fine, saving me a lot of work
[01:57:38] <jadew> yeah, it's possible it will work out of the box
[01:57:52] <RikusW> that would be very nice indeed
[01:58:29] <RikusW> it would reinforce the lazy programmer syndrome :-P
[02:04:36] <RikusW> Tom_itx: seems the op/deop stuff works just fine
[02:05:02] <RikusW> I did lock myself out of a channel previously, but it wasn't registered...
[02:34:14] <Richard_Cavell> eric_j: so does that mean I have to provide my own pull-down?
[02:34:14] <Richard_Cavell> What value should I use?
[02:34:14] <Richard_Cavell> something ridiculous like a million ohms?
[02:50:49] <w|zzy> jadew: Should contact dangerous prototypes and let them know about it.
[02:51:06] <jadew> I've left a message on the forum
[02:51:09] <w|zzy> :)
[02:51:29] <jadew> you should get the latest version as well
[02:51:45] <jadew> it's got some bug fixes and some improvements
[02:51:46] <w|zzy> i have.. well provided its the one on the mainpage
[02:51:58] <jadew> yeah, that's the one
[02:55:54] <w|zzy> :) time for me to head. Good stuff jades
[02:56:01] <jadew> see ya
[02:56:01] <w|zzy> Jadew
[02:56:04] <w|zzy> Cya
[02:56:07] <jadew> I'm gonna hit the bed as well
[02:56:08] <jadew> night
[03:22:52] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Took the xboard and U2S to uni. Showed them around a little, and the guy I told about it last week took a look, smiled, and said "1117 mistake" :P
[03:23:29] <OndraSterver> :D
[03:23:37] <megal0maniac> He has a family business and they do small scale PCB etching. Apparently he's seen it a few times before
[03:23:43] <megal0maniac> But other than that, he was impressed
[03:23:58] <megal0maniac> Shortly after that I saw him on the xboard site :P
[03:24:05] <OndraSterver> :D
[03:24:09] <OndraSterver> nice
[03:24:23] <OndraSterver> I should probably add some "how to buy" info :D
[03:24:33] <megal0maniac> Heh... Yes
[03:25:31] <jadew> what's the 1117 mistake?
[03:26:40] <megal0maniac> Sorry, "1117 footprint mistake"
[03:26:50] <RikusW> meaning ?
[03:26:52] <jadew> what's 1117?
[03:27:03] <megal0maniac> 1117 is a linear LDO vreg
[03:27:14] <megal0maniac> Different pinout to 7805 and similar
[03:27:38] <RikusW> its connected right on coco right ?
[03:27:39] <jadew> ah, so the footprints got switched?
[03:28:03] <OndraSterver> I switched it with LM2936 accidentaly
[03:28:05] <megal0maniac> Well not sure what happened in OndraSterver's case, but yeah. Pretty much
[03:28:07] <OndraSterver> they have different footprints
[03:28:13] <RikusW> I know 7805 and 1117 pinouts differ...
[03:28:47] <RikusW> OndraSterver: and how does that affect the coco's functionality ?
[03:28:49] <OndraSterver> LM2936 costs like... 10 times more and goes only upto 50mA
[03:28:52] <OndraSterver> in no way
[03:29:06] <OndraSterver> just looks funny :D
[03:29:16] <jadew> tht or smd?
[03:29:24] <OndraSterver> smd of course
[03:29:27] <RikusW> megal0maniac: so busy marketing again ? thanks :)
[03:29:30] <OndraSterver> the board is 23x70mm :D
[03:29:39] <jadew> nice
[03:29:44] <OndraSterver> aye, any marketing is welcome, thanks :D
[03:29:53] <RikusW> OndraSterver: guess I'll see when I get my coco
[03:29:54] <megal0maniac> No prob
[03:29:54] <OndraSterver> sorry, I am still half asleep, got home 6 hours ago :D
[03:30:28] <RikusW> megal0maniac: did he have any comments on U2S ?
[03:30:30] <megal0maniac> I won't promote it if its a shit product, and I'll promote it for free if its great. :P
[03:30:47] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Not really. It's difficult to explain the module system without demonstration
[03:30:56] <RikusW> megal0maniac: if you manage to sell some you might get one for free :)
[03:31:46] <OndraSterver> "buy 10 get 1 free!" lol
[03:32:01] <RikusW> something like that yes :)
[03:32:26] <OndraSterver> I want to target the arduino fields probably... but there is no 64pin chip based arduino so I had to invent my own form :(
[03:32:27] <megal0maniac> Haha
[03:32:45] <OndraSterver> but I suppose that the Mini is fairly enough too
[03:32:51] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'm trying, but it's a small community ;)
[03:32:56] <jadew> is anyone you know earning decently from selling his own projects?
[03:33:07] <OndraSterver> so far I am still in a great losses :D
[03:33:08] <RikusW> yep and not everyone are able to use a U2S...
[03:33:25] <OndraSterver> ask Tom_itx, last time Isaw some photos he had two trays with 250 of atmegas each...
[03:34:10] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Yes, but you're only making money when the trays are empty ;)
[03:34:12] <OndraSterver> brb, time to get up
[03:34:13] <OndraSterver> :D
[03:34:18] <OndraSterver> he had one half empty :P
[03:34:44] <megal0maniac> Tray of xmega256a3u
[03:34:47] <megal0maniac> Mmmmm :)
[03:35:06] <jadew> I guess it's important to optimise the manufacturing process like Tom_itx has done
[03:35:43] <megal0maniac> jadew: You need to have a market (and thus be selling stuff) in order to figure out what the optimal process is
[03:35:59] <megal0maniac> And it's effing hard to get the first part right :)
[03:36:00] <jadew> good point
[03:36:18] <megal0maniac> Does anyone else here sell things?
[03:36:22] <RikusW> megal0maniac: tell me about that
[03:36:33] <RikusW> I still have 100+ U2S in stock :-/
[03:36:59] <RikusW> took quite a few days to assemble
[03:37:06] <megal0maniac> I'm trying to find a hackerspace.
[03:37:08] <RikusW> and the fw still have to be uploaded...
[03:37:28] <jadew> RikusW, maybe if you had a better presentation page
[03:37:35] <jadew> like.. with videos and shit
[03:37:52] <RikusW> err GPRS is a bit slow for uploading videos :(
[03:37:57] <jadew> boom! the U2S to the resque! (that's how the video starts)
[03:38:24] <megal0maniac> RikusW: When you're in Bloem
[03:38:31] <RikusW> I'm currently on ADSL but only for a few days more...
[03:38:46] <jadew> then you start advertising it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4hyATkQ74
[03:39:22] <jadew> A CLOCK!
[03:39:53] <megal0maniac> ALL THESE FEATURES AND REVERSI!!!
[03:41:44] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I think you just need to get the docs sorted 100% (and idiot proofed), polish the PC apps and not mention WIP modules (like dW)
[03:42:00] <megal0maniac> Then show it to the hobbyist electronics shops
[03:42:35] <RikusW> WIP ?
[03:42:40] <megal0maniac> work in progress
[03:42:42] <RikusW> ah
[03:43:13] <RikusW> jadew: that add is a bit hyped :-P
[03:43:32] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, lol @ "reversi"
[03:43:36] <jadew> it's memorable tho :P
[03:43:53] <OndraSterver> aye
[03:44:02] <OndraSterver> Ballmer's commercials always were
[03:44:05] <OndraSterver> the older ones :D
[03:44:56] <jadew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
[03:46:01] <OndraSterver> aaaaaaaaaaahhhahaaaaa
[03:46:16] <OndraSterver> I keep saying that ballmer is a monkey
[03:48:00] <RikusW> understandable after watching that vid :-D
[03:48:50] <jadew> wish I had the guts to do that in front of that many people
[04:02:03] <OndraSterver> Mike has uploaded new vid
[04:02:06] <OndraSterver> part 2 of his xray :P
[04:02:10] <megal0maniac> Who dat?
[04:02:16] <OndraSterver> mikeselectricstuff?
[04:02:24] * megal0maniac googles
[04:05:40] <OndraSterver> dude
[04:05:43] <OndraSterver> you don't know mike? :P
[04:05:49] <OndraSterver> he has one of the best teardown
[04:05:49] <OndraSterver> s
[04:24:42] <RikusW> http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c0.0.319.319/p403x403/320485_190822277719351_522857552_n.jpg
[04:25:16] <RikusW> Not so sure I'd be comfortable if it was me :-P
[04:26:06] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:28:21] * RikusW mails OndraSterver a lion :-P
[04:28:29] <RikusW> * a pet lion
[04:29:23] <Richard_Cavell> RikusW: How's it going mate?
[04:30:02] <Richard_Cavell> I'm happy because I asked a girl out on a date. She took a week to think about it and then gave me a firm no. So last night I chatted with her and talked her into going out with me. We're seeing each other on Tuesday night.
[04:30:23] <theBear> lol, that's the best story i heard all week !
[04:31:18] <Richard_Cavell> I work with her. One day she sat next to me and pushed her knee into my thigh. I thought she was indicating interest. So I was a bit surprised when she turned me down.
[04:31:49] <theBear> hehe, i wouldn't know about that, social cues are not my strong suite
[04:32:08] <Richard_Cavell> women are insane
[04:32:21] <theBear> my area is more potentially offensive humor and general tomfoolery
[04:32:33] <theBear> all the pretty ones are crazy
[04:32:37] <theBear> and the ugly ones too :)
[04:33:05] <Richard_Cavell> this one, her boobs are so big she walks stooped
[04:33:09] <Richard_Cavell> E cup
[04:33:35] <theBear> lol, you shouldn't be thinking about her like that at this stage
[04:34:08] <Richard_Cavell> It was only once I started talking to her like that, that she agreed to go out with me
[04:34:30] <theBear> wow, sounds like quite a woman
[04:34:56] <Richard_Cavell> I'm 35 and she's 22
[04:35:17] <theBear> hehe, you're on fire
[04:35:45] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[04:35:54] <Richard_Cavell> very happy with myself
[04:36:10] * megal0maniac vomits
[04:36:23] <megal0maniac> (but is happy for Richard_Cavell)
[04:37:02] <OndraSterver> <theBear> hehe, i wouldn't know about that, social cues are not my strong suite
[04:37:05] <OndraSterver> alcohol
[04:37:06] <megal0maniac> I wouldn't date a 7 year old, but that's just me :P
[04:37:06] <OndraSterver> helps.
[04:37:07] <OndraSterver> believe me :D
[04:37:11] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:37:21] <Richard_Cavell> No I did it without a drop of alcohol
[04:37:36] <Richard_Cavell> I found out years ago - if you have confidence, you can achieve anything
[04:37:44] <theBear> well alcahol of course, this is the first time i been sober in over 15 years, more or less
[04:38:09] <theBear> and yet i'm still considering going to a party with some of the prettiest girls i know...
[04:38:22] <theBear> just not sure what i do at a party if i don't drink, don't think it's ever come up before
[04:38:59] <OndraSterver> <theBear> hehe, i wouldn't know about that, social cues are not my strong suite
[04:39:43] <theBear> is it good if a girl invites you to two parties in a week ? i don't think she wants to do err, anything, overly friendly with me again... that was over a year ago
[04:39:52] <OndraSterver> whoops
[04:39:54] <OndraSterver> wrong copypasta
[04:39:58] <OndraSterver> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juqyzgnbspY
[04:39:59] <OndraSterver> this
[04:40:03] <theBear> oh
[04:40:17] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: If you've already been intimate with a girl, there's no gamesmanship
[04:40:33] <Richard_Cavell> once you've conquered her, then psychologically you have the upper hand forever
[04:41:13] <theBear> awesome ! a song about birdy noises !
[04:41:17] <theBear> lol
[04:41:27] <megal0maniac> Baubau!
[04:41:42] <theBear> i don't want the psychological upper hand, i'm not young anymore, i know what intimacy is, now i'm lonely and i wanna fix it forever :)
[04:41:45] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: I'm ok thanks, how about getting this hairstyle :-D -> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/485747_362435160507943_625318919_n.jpg
[04:42:05] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:42:11] <OndraSterver> bloody serial xmodem!
[04:42:14] <OndraSterver> 4kB/s :D
[04:42:25] <theBear> glugluglu
[04:42:27] <OndraSterver> takes 6 mins to upload new openwrt image
[04:42:41] <Richard_Cavell> RikusW: that's ridiculous
[04:42:52] <theBear> RikusW, that's pretty much what i got, but i usually wear ear moustaches instead of legs :)
[04:42:55] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: It's good fun to play with girl's boobs while you're searching for a wife
[04:43:30] <theBear> heh, that's always true
[04:43:51] <RikusW> megal0maniac: that age difference would equate to a 7year old for you :-P :-D
[04:44:45] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: By the way if you watch the video further it goes through cat, cow, dog, etc
[04:44:50] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Exactly. I don't like that :P
[04:44:56] <theBear> i watched the whole thing AND saved it for future reference :)
[04:44:57] * RikusW is reading scrollback...
[04:45:03] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: And then tractor
[04:45:09] <megal0maniac> Which kills the birdie
[04:45:09] <theBear> i can practice my spanish more, like watching santo movies
[04:45:54] <Richard_Cavell> Italian!
[04:46:06] <theBear> really ? galo ?
[04:46:14] <theBear> err, gallo
[04:47:51] <OndraSterver> it's... so... fast!
[04:47:51] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2pLGS
[04:48:20] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Why no tftp?
[04:48:30] <OndraSterver> because this bootloader has no tftp
[04:48:58] <megal0maniac> Baw!
[04:49:00] <megal0maniac> Unluck
[04:49:05] <OndraSterver> heh
[04:58:15] <RikusW> the hulk -> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=467317093302755&set=a.409171719117293.98707.400320023335796&type=1&relevant_count=1
[04:58:28] <OndraSterver> damn, why is not the source code of the bootloader anywhere?
[04:58:33] <OndraSterver> I want to solder bigger RAM on it :P
[04:59:32] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: TP-Link :)
[04:59:51] <OndraSterver> but where is fun in that
[05:02:33] <megal0maniac> Well it works
[05:02:43] <megal0maniac> Not by itself, but at least its possible
[05:02:49] <megal0maniac> And cheap :)
[05:10:04] <OndraSterver> Look what I found in the bootloader! "inflate 1.1.4 Copyright 1995-2002 Mark Adler ",0
[05:26:47] <Sefid_par> To where should I put the (vcc) wire in this simple programmer circuit:?
[05:26:49] <Sefid_par> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Avr-Microcontrollers-in-Linux-Howto/avr_html_m7e400112-2.jpg
[05:33:18] <OndraSterver> see pin7?
[05:33:25] <OndraSterver> and 20
[05:33:32] <OndraSterver> then 8 + 22
[05:33:53] <OndraSterver> also wth
[05:33:58] <OndraSterver> 4MHz xtal? what for?
[05:34:01] <OndraSterver> what chip do you have?
[05:34:21] <OndraSterver> and I dare you to connect the serial right into the rs232...
[05:39:46] <Sefid_par> OndraSterver: My proble is about the vcc flash at the top after 10K resistor;
[05:39:52] <Sefid_par> I have at88
[05:46:35] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: OndraSterver don't be silly, there are 1K resistors. He'll be fine
[05:47:27] <Sefid_par> megal0maniac: at the top.
[05:47:40] <Sefid_par> I told in the last sentence
[05:48:21] <megal0maniac> Sefid_par: I know. I was replying to OndraSterver
[05:49:17] <Sefid_par> megal0maniac: Should I use external power source?
[05:51:22] <Sefid_par> Ok; I think yes. serial port does not have vcc
[05:54:02] <megal0maniac> There will be burning
[05:59:52] <OndraSterver> at88?
[05:59:57] <OndraSterver> 1k resistors are not THAT big
[06:02:46] <megal0maniac> I wasn't being serious
[06:21:43] <OndraSterver> :P
[06:21:58] <OndraSterver> oh right, that inflate code is for decompressing the kernel
[06:32:31] <OndraSterver> ROM:1FC007C4 li $t0, 0x14804500
[06:32:31] <OndraSterver> ROM:1FC007CC li $t1, 0xFFF7FFFF
[06:32:31] <OndraSterver> ROM:1FC007D4 and $t0, $t1
[06:32:32] <OndraSterver> heh
[06:32:41] <OndraSterver> not only AVR has sometimes weird gcc :P
[06:39:26] <OndraSterver> well
[06:39:30] <OndraSterver> this was easier than I thought!
[06:39:31] <OndraSterver> lol
[06:39:33] <Horologium> deep hole.
[06:42:07] <OndraSterver> appearantly the memories are in parallel
[06:42:17] <OndraSterver> since they are 16bit but it configs 32bit address bus
[06:42:20] <OndraSterver> I expected that tbh :)
[06:42:29] <OndraSterver> (could have simply checked as well)
[07:16:41] <tld> anyone know if there's reasonably fast (supporting 10Mhz or faster clock) RAM-chips, that support two connections (write with one, read with the other, making it a buffer) of some size (at least 1MB)?
[07:17:47] <OndraSterver> search for dual port RAM
[07:18:37] <tld> thank you. :)
[07:20:46] <OndraSterver> np
[07:20:50] <OndraSterver> but afaik they are not cheap :P
[07:21:25] <OndraSterver> also wtf? SDRAMs have (128Mbit chips) 12 rows and 9 columns
[07:21:34] <OndraSterver> but the CPU's datasheet says 13 rows/8columns?!
[07:21:55] <OndraSterver> I can manually set it to 12/9 but then there is one more field in which it is set again
[07:25:55] <OndraSterver> probably a typo
[07:26:26] <OndraSterver> I see it that I will need a programmer for the NOR flash :D
[07:28:30] <OndraSterver> too bad I can't reconfigure the RAM "on the go"
[07:28:31] <OndraSterver> although..
[07:45:26] <tld> Got my $2 multimeter the other day.
[07:45:33] <tld> Wonder how the accuracy might be.
[07:48:08] <inflex> like crap
[07:49:33] <tld> actually, more like spot-on
[07:49:47] <OndraSterver> try ohms range and sticking it to wall outlet
[07:50:06] <tld> OndraSterver: good example of things *not* to do. ;)
[07:50:45] <OndraSterver> why?
[07:50:52] <OndraSterver> tests have to be done
[07:51:02] <OndraSterver> usual even cheapies work just fine
[08:03:15] <inflex> trouble with the cheapies is that 3 months later quite a number of them are drifting way off
[08:09:57] <tld> simply put, it won't be my primary or "go-to" multimeter. ;)
[08:45:50] <OndraSterver> hmm
[08:46:05] <OndraSterver> soldered new one, does not boot anymore :P
[08:46:12] <OndraSterver> (same speed rating chip, just bigger)
[08:46:17] <OndraSterver> I would expect it to work with less RAM
[08:46:56] <OndraSterver> but it is BLOODY FR2 or whatever
[08:47:02] <OndraSterver> so I might have done somewhere small short..
[08:47:08] <OndraSterver> can't see any though
[08:48:18] <jadew> check power usage
[08:50:01] <OndraSterver> aye
[08:50:02] <OndraSterver> later
[08:50:11] <OndraSterver> now I am pissed on them for using such cheap material
[08:51:16] <jadew> they used copper instead of gold?
[08:51:57] <OndraSterver> they probably used wood instead of gold.
[08:52:05] <jadew> heh
[08:53:22] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2pNUW
[08:53:24] <OndraSterver> DAT MEMORY USAGE!
[08:53:44] <jadew> mysql or some db engine?
[09:04:21] <OndraSterver> jadew, neither
[09:04:28] <OndraSterver> Opera is taking a lot
[09:04:31] <OndraSterver> like 1.5GB
[09:04:38] <OndraSterver> but meh, can't be angry at it!
[09:04:42] <OndraSterver> using latest beta 64bit :)
[09:06:11] <Tom_itx> what for?
[09:06:59] <Casper> OndraSterver: to go with your memory usage....
[09:07:05] * Tom_itx compiles blinky.c on his 128bit pc
[09:07:12] <Casper> http://imageshack.us/a/img19/6021/sepy.png ← symantec endpoint protection
[09:10:15] <Steffanx> heh CapnKernel
[09:10:18] <Steffanx> *Casper
[09:11:14] <Tom_itx> Steffanx
[09:11:23] <Tom_itx> did you happen to look into the osx thing?
[09:17:33] <Richard_Cavell> avr output pins are rated at 40 mAmps, right?
[09:17:43] <Richard_Cavell> I've just realized I'm putting 44 mA through several of my pins
[09:20:03] <Tom_itx> bad bad bad
[09:21:27] <Richard_Cavell> I'll have to solder some more resistors in then, hey Tom?
[09:21:55] <Tom_itx> unless you like replacing avrs
[09:22:36] <Richard_Cavell> I ran out of sockets actually, so one of them is soldered directly in
[09:22:41] <Richard_Cavell> I hope that one still works
[09:33:57] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: also, it's 100mA per port
[09:34:05] <Richard_Cavell> oh ok
[09:34:07] <Richard_Cavell> that's much better
[09:34:16] <jadew> it's not
[09:34:16] <Richard_Cavell> oh wait you mean 100 mA in total for the whole port?
[09:34:17] <Casper> and 200mA per power pin (thru-hole usually have only 1 power pin)
[09:34:24] <Richard_Cavell> WHAT
[09:34:30] <Richard_Cavell> 200 mA for my whole circuit?
[09:34:32] <Casper> yes, for "PORTB"
[09:34:38] <Casper> and 200mA per chip
[09:34:53] <Casper> unless you use SMD
[09:37:10] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: you missed the 100 and 200mA limit in the datasheet?
[09:37:29] <Richard_Cavell> mate I haven't read the datasheet :(
[09:39:52] <Richard_Cavell> 200 mA per chip... that's draconian
[09:41:08] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[09:42:33] <Richard_Cavell> At the moment I'm using 160 mA on port B and about 450 mA for the whole chip
[09:43:10] <Richard_Cavell> damn it
[09:43:14] <Richard_Cavell> I can still save this though
[09:43:27] <Tom_itx> that's from your side of the chip
[09:45:15] <OndraSterver> Casper, Gobytes?
[09:45:41] <Richard_Cavell> What I'm doing is I'm using GPIO pins on one AVR to communicate with another. So the output of 1 pin becomes the input to another pin on a different chip. At the moment I have 2 x 220 ohm resistors between the pins. The connection is supposed to be hot swappable, so it's just to protect against spikes/static etc.
[09:45:56] <Richard_Cavell> How high can I go with those resistors and still rely on the line registering as "high" when it's supposed to be high
[09:46:21] <OndraSterver> a lot
[09:46:28] <OndraSterver> input impedance is 1M or higher
[09:46:41] <OndraSterver> also
[09:46:48] <OndraSterver> the capacitance of the pin is how much? 6pF?
[09:46:52] <OndraSterver> so do the math :)
[09:47:00] <Richard_Cavell> let's assume for a second that I'm a newb
[09:47:25] <Richard_Cavell> I've already soldered on one side of the connections, so I have the 220s all soldered in right now but when I solder in the other 220s I can bump it up to something higher
[09:47:31] <DarkSector> Ollo
[09:48:48] <OndraSterver> if I would have to use serial resistors I would probably use 4k7
[09:48:55] <OndraSterver> because I have got over 4k5 of them.
[09:49:27] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSterver: well I'm going to the shop tomorrow and can buy whatever. If you say 4k7, I'll put 'em in
[09:49:27] <OndraSterver> that is on low speed stuff of course
[09:49:33] <Richard_Cavell> Yeah very low speed
[09:49:42] <OndraSterver> you can use pretty much anything at low speeds
[09:49:52] <Richard_Cavell> God thanks for finding that error
[09:51:11] <OndraSterver> also read the bloody datasheet
[09:51:55] <Tom_itx> that'd be too unlazy
[09:51:59] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSterver: So both AVRs have +5v coming out of an independent power circuit and a common ground. One AVR has a pin set as output and it's high. The other is receiving that signal as input. There's now 4900 ohms of resistor between the two pins. It'll still register as high on the other side, right?
[09:52:43] <OndraSterver> of course
[09:53:15] <Richard_Cavell> I'm not used to such small currents working
[09:53:28] <Richard_Cavell> I'm used to needing the kind of current that can light an LED or trigger a relay
[09:53:44] <OndraSterver> 5/(1M+4k9) * 1M
[09:53:49] <OndraSterver> still way above Vih
[09:54:18] <Richard_Cavell> right
[09:54:31] <Richard_Cavell> so does that mean that inside the AVR there's a 1 million ohm resistor connected to the pin?
[09:54:42] <OndraSterver> no
[09:54:59] <OndraSterver> it means that there is J/P/whatever FET that has input impedance of 1M or higher
[09:55:50] <OndraSterver> IIN Input Leakage Current T = 25°C <0.001 0.1 μA
[09:56:02] <OndraSterver> symbol, parameter, condigion, min, typ, max, units
[09:56:10] <OndraSterver> that is from xmega (don't have any mega datasheet opened)
[09:56:16] <OndraSterver> 0.001uA
[09:56:18] <OndraSterver> @ 3.3V
[09:57:07] <OndraSterver> I lied, it is not 1M
[09:57:14] <OndraSterver> it is muuuuuuuch more :)
[09:57:40] <Richard_Cavell> I don't really understand it
[09:57:42] <OndraSterver> 3.3/0.001u = 3.3GF
[09:57:45] <OndraSterver> err
[09:57:45] <OndraSterver> GOhm
[09:57:49] <Richard_Cavell> But I'm gonna buy 4k7s tomorrow instead of some more 220s
[09:58:31] <OndraSterver> >3.3GOhm typical, 3.3MOhm min
[10:10:18] <OndraSterver> nice, I found one short
[10:10:20] <OndraSterver> and one possible short
[10:10:29] <OndraSterver> also it is probably FR4 but 0.8mm thick
[10:10:37] <OndraSterver> it is REALLY thin
[10:10:39] <OndraSterver> and feels REALLY cheap
[10:10:51] <OndraSterver> completely vscored, no routing out
[10:10:59] <OndraSterver> although it is router! :P
[10:15:48] <OndraSterver> still nothing :(
[10:25:00] <CapnKernel> Steffanx: hi :-)
[10:25:13] <CapnKernel> I arrived back in Shenzhen for another tour of duty yesterday :-)
[10:25:25] <Tom_itx> horay!
[10:29:20] <OndraSterver> CapnKernel, nice!
[10:29:43] <OndraSterver> CapnKernel, you said you also can get reels of parts?
[10:29:53] <OndraSterver> passives
[10:34:38] <CapnKernel> OndraSterver: I'll PM you
[11:30:56] <OndraSterver> I BROKE IT! even with the original memories it does not start
[11:31:08] <OndraSterver> but I don't think there is dead short, the CPU is getting juice
[11:33:26] <OndraSterver> http://meuk.spritesserver.nl/foto/foto/ledbl/hpim3805.jpg
[11:33:28] <OndraSterver> impressive
[11:33:31] <OndraSterver> (LED PWM controller)
[11:33:35] <OndraSterver> 48V
[11:33:40] <OndraSterver> 40V*
[11:41:33] <creep> OndraSterver<< i just use a switched mode power supply ic for that
[11:42:31] <creep> how about a tl494?
[11:43:42] <OndraSterver> why are you asking me?
[11:43:45] <OndraSterver> it is not mine
[11:43:49] <OndraSterver> I just linked it because of the way it is built
[11:44:07] <creep> oh the air board
[11:45:00] <creep> i did some things that way and it takes more time than to draw by hand haha
[12:10:52] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: I used 270 Ohm with my leds
[12:11:03] <RikusW> 4k7 for driving a transistor
[12:13:08] <creep> adblocking detection on website :/ pastebin.com/UKJLKj3H
[12:19:14] <tld> for a second there, I thought you'd said "adhesive detection on website".
[12:25:25] <OndraSterver> try opening pctuning.cz without adblock
[12:25:26] <OndraSterver> ..
[12:25:50] <creep> they'll soon force you to have ads
[12:26:22] <OndraSterver> most of the population does not use adblock
[12:26:24] <creep> or at least, you must load all ads, then remove from page for it to work
[12:26:59] <creep> sure, this is why an adloaded website takes all your cores from the latest cpu at 100%
[12:27:43] <creep> and therefore they recommend you a gaming computer for internetz at pc shop
[12:28:04] <OndraSterver> :P
[12:28:16] <OndraSterver> BUT it is just a matter of time before adblocks will be illegal in the EU
[12:28:23] <OndraSterver> (I am pretty positive about that)
[12:28:36] <specing> WHat?
[12:28:41] <OndraSterver> :P
[12:28:53] <OndraSterver> EU likes to talk into stuff that it should not talk into
[12:29:18] <specing> You do realize there are a number of members of piratenpartei that are occupying high positions withing the EU structure?
[12:29:24] <creep> i remember my 300MHz cyrix MII/IBM was fine for things using 32MB sd-ram, and the 600MHz celeron tuned to 933MHz played every divx video fine at highest quality in 2002
[12:29:28] <OndraSterver> anyway, I have got a horrible story. There was discussion online about somebody making an advert "massages, $20/30 minutes. Teens have 75% discount."
[12:29:36] <OndraSterver> then there were people arguing whether it is legal or not
[12:30:03] <OndraSterver> so I compared it to at which point should be person stopped during assasination of a president - whether the second he shoots or when he is planning it etc
[12:30:09] <specing> if the teen in question wants to be touched... why not?
[12:30:16] <OndraSterver> 3 months later I read in the news "blabla tried to kill president"
[12:30:20] <JViz> !seen abcminiuser
[12:30:21] <tobbor> abcminiuser was last seen in #avr on Oct 17 13:24 2012
[12:30:33] <specing> OndraSterver: preferrably never
[12:30:42] <OndraSterver> eh
[12:30:47] <OndraSterver> well this guy had an airsoft gun
[12:30:52] <OndraSterver> so he didn't ofc kill him
[12:30:54] <OndraSterver> but he managed to shoot.
[12:30:58] <OndraSterver> right at his head
[12:31:08] <creep> is that illegal?
[12:31:23] <OndraSterver> you tell me
[12:31:49] <creep> probably not if you can do it
[12:32:16] <creep> you'll be charged with pranking
[12:32:28] <OndraSterver> well the security guys were ... kicked out
[12:32:29] <OndraSterver> fired.
[12:32:32] <OndraSterver> with a cannon ball.
[12:33:10] <creep> airsoft cannon?
[12:33:14] <OndraSterver> :P
[12:33:19] <creep> filled with some paint?
[12:38:03] <creep> don't you just love these in your html source? var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
[12:43:04] <Tom_itx> OndraSterver it depends on which president it is
[12:45:36] <creep> the indian president?
[12:46:16] <creep> you shoot the royal elephant that hes riding, then it will throw him off
[14:26:55] <OndraSterver> damnit, WHERE IS THE SHORT!
[14:26:57] <OndraSterver> Y U NO WORK!
[14:27:10] <specing> AAAARMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmm
[14:27:26] <Corwin> you are both crazy
[14:27:35] <OndraSterver> heh
[14:27:50] <OndraSterver> specing, this is MIPS II
[14:27:51] <OndraSterver> :P
[14:27:58] <OndraSterver> Corwin, http://clip2net.com/s/2pQYW
[14:28:54] <Corwin> whats your point?
[14:29:07] <OndraSterver> look at where does the arrow point
[14:29:57] <specing> CECKI JAAAAAZIIIIIIIIK!!!!
[14:30:01] <OndraSterver> ...
[14:30:02] <Corwin> i hate sideways scrolling......
[14:30:13] <specing> I LIKE CECKI JAZIK SO MUCH
[14:30:17] <Corwin> :D
[14:30:19] <OndraSterver> Corwin, 1920 and it is not even on fullscreen
[14:30:25] <OndraSterver> specing, everybody does!
[14:30:51] <specing> btw, what am I looking at?
[14:31:10] <OndraSterver> you would have to know cecki jazyk
[14:32:21] <specing> How on earth can a language have a caron on 'r'?
[14:32:42] <OndraSterver> ř on you!
[14:32:42] <Corwin> :D
[14:32:58] <specing> OndraSterver: ASCII here :)
[14:33:02] <specing> only see '?'
[14:33:07] * tld just ordered 1 lb kester 44… hope it's as good as they say.
[14:33:09] <OndraSterver> use UTF yo
[14:33:13] <specing> why?
[14:33:22] <OndraSterver> because 'tis the next best thing since sliced bread
[14:33:46] <Corwin> 'tis the next best thing since sliced bread.... you mean pizza?
[14:34:09] <specing> pizza is overvalued
[14:34:17] <Corwin> so is utf
[14:34:19] <OndraSterver> I don't like pizza
[14:34:31] <Corwin> you like cecki, right?
[14:34:35] <OndraSterver> :D
[14:34:37] <specing> Also I like the performance of my Gentoo box without that NLS crap.
[14:34:49] <specing> omg its so fast
[14:34:56] <specing> >_>_>_>_>
[14:35:05] <OndraSterver> Linux: The system where speed depends on localization support!
[14:35:07] <specing> <_<_<_<_>
[14:35:24] <specing> well
[14:35:28] <OndraSterver> does the >_>_>_ mean "work load work load work load work load"
[14:35:31] <OndraSterver> :P
[14:35:35] <OndraSterver> or "work reset work reset"
[14:35:49] <specing> utf has some wiggly processing behind
[14:36:31] <Corwin> thats why i like iso-8859-2
[14:37:25] <OndraSterver> does windows use utf8 or 16?
[14:37:26] <OndraSterver> I think 16
[14:37:48] <specing> ???
[14:37:56] <specing> Did it get through?
[14:38:04] <OndraSterver> ??? did.
[14:38:18] <specing> you mean question marks did?
[14:38:22] <Corwin> yes
[14:38:25] <OndraSterver> ye
[14:38:43] <specing> because I inputted csz with carons with my modified keyboard layout
[14:39:13] <specing> american english keyboard + csz with carons on some finger-kung-fu keys
[14:39:18] <OndraSterver> lol
[14:39:28] <specing> works great in gui
[14:39:35] <Corwin> kung fu panda?
[14:39:37] <specing> mails and stuff
[14:39:53] <specing> which are graphical
[15:25:15] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Was just thinking, why don't you just supplied the compiled binaries for ravrprog?
[15:25:37] <megal0maniac> Compile with QT and be done with it. That's what most people would download anyway...
[15:26:02] <megal0maniac> Source can always be a seperate download
[15:26:10] <megal0maniac> zlog
[15:54:14] <RikusW> megal0maniac: the Qt4 dll's are BIG
[15:54:25] <RikusW> it might work on Linux though
[15:55:01] <RikusW> but I could try that for win
[15:56:01] <RikusW> megal0maniac: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Jonathan+Manthorpe+Nelson+Mandela+African+National+Congress+becomes+disease+cure/7399167/story.html
[15:56:48] <OndraSterver> RikusW, that's some slow customs you have there :D
[15:56:52] <OndraSterver> already 4 days on customs
[15:57:28] <OndraSterver> well, here, unless you are unfortunate so it gets lost/you are supposed to pay, it passes in 1 or 2 days tops
[16:02:38] <megal0maniac> Took 3 days for me
[16:02:46] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Oh yeah... Forgot about the DLLs
[16:02:50] <megal0maniac> However...
[16:03:09] <megal0maniac> I got the idea because I installed the Last.FM client app, and it's built on QT
[16:03:15] * megal0maniac moves to pm
[16:04:09] <RikusW> OndraSterver: hopefully I'll get it by next week
[16:04:21] <RikusW> megal0maniac: and maybe your nano will be there too
[16:04:45] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I somehow doubt that :P
[16:04:58] <RikusW> I'm still hoping
[16:05:08] <RikusW> unless it was in that photo you posted :-P
[16:05:15] <RikusW> or the one I posted now
[16:25:28] <RikusW> eww https://dl.dropbox.com/static/images/psychobox.png
[16:25:51] * RikusW short circuits :-P
[16:26:40] <specing> is that some failed version of a hypercube?
[16:27:32] <RikusW> yeah
[16:27:36] <RikusW> on a 404 page
[16:35:30] <OndraSterver> RikusW, some call that "mindfuck"
[16:37:02] <Horologium> engineering 101 final exam...build that..
[16:42:07] <RikusW> heh
[16:42:14] <nevdull> it looks like what happens when you only retrieve half the transport buffer of a rubiks cube transport to surface thru heavy, ionizing storms ;)
[16:42:16] <RikusW> build it and show me
[16:42:52] <RikusW> nevdull: no, the stargate buffer got corrupted ;)
[16:43:04] <nevdull> lol
[16:43:17] <megal0maniac> I'm off, 'night all
[16:43:21] <nevdull> 'night
[16:50:12] <RikusW> 23:39
[16:50:21] <RikusW> gn
[16:51:18] <OndraSterver> gn
[16:51:18] <OndraSterver> but it is saturday!
[17:02:34] <OndraSterver> hah
[17:02:38] <OndraSterver> I KNOW HOW TO MAKE MY XBOARDS ROHS COMPLIANT!
[17:02:39] <OndraSterver> http://dx.com/p/18mm-round-lead-free-packing-rohs-label-stickers-15-x-50-pack-121803
[17:02:40] <OndraSterver> this way.
[17:04:42] <specing> 1) fuck RoHS 2) ??? 3) ??? 4) Profit!
[17:06:09] <Xark> OndraSterver: Maybe you can get a discount if you also order CE and FCC certification stickers too. :)
[17:09:08] <OndraSterver> aye
[17:09:13] <OndraSterver> :D
[17:13:40] <OndraSterver> fuck rohs
[17:13:41] <OndraSterver> http://www.identco.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_86_A_subCatID_E_83_A_productID_E_160_A_RoHS_Labels__E_RoHS_Labels_
[17:14:11] <OndraSterver> xboards are and will be proudly leaded!
[17:15:56] <specing> :)
[17:16:10] <specing> you put the fun back into soldering
[17:16:30] <OndraSterver> :D
[17:48:49] <OndraSterver> http://www.fotoalbum.cz/osciloskop-bez-oznaceni/a15723f0o2048296/#
[17:48:49] <OndraSterver> yay
[17:48:51] <OndraSterver> somebody is selling this
[17:48:53] <OndraSterver> $20
[17:48:55] <OndraSterver> and ends in 2 days
[17:48:57] <OndraSterver> I should pick it up
[17:49:25] * Tom_itx bids $21
[17:49:39] <OndraSterver> NO
[17:49:45] <OndraSterver> it looks SO OLD!
[17:49:47] <OndraSterver> I might grab it
[17:49:55] <OndraSterver> just as the german RFT he has there
[17:50:00] <OndraSterver> same price, same time left
[17:50:02] <Tom_itx> what freq?
[17:50:09] <OndraSterver> the RFT? should be 10MHz I think
[17:50:11] <OndraSterver> this one? No idea
[17:50:14] <Tom_itx> the scope
[17:50:16] <OndraSterver> no idea what brand it is, nothing
[17:50:29] <OndraSterver> "osciloskop bez oznaceni" = "oscilloscope without any markings"
[17:51:11] <Tom_itx> i don't need it anyway
[17:51:18] <Tom_itx> i have a 100Mhz scope
[17:51:21] <Tom_itx> old but it works
[17:51:22] <OndraSterver> hehe
[17:51:28] <OndraSterver> I have got 40MHz Kikusui analog
[17:51:33] <OndraSterver> I was looking for some cheap DSO
[17:51:36] <Tom_itx> mine is analog as well
[17:51:37] <OndraSterver> not happening here
[17:51:55] <OndraSterver> I could make one from the atxmega and send the data to the PC :D
[17:51:59] <OndraSterver> much faster than a soundcard :P
[17:52:14] <OndraSterver> 2MSPS ADC is not ba
[17:52:14] <OndraSterver> d
[17:52:28] <OndraSterver> and one could actually sample at 4MSPS
[17:52:31] <OndraSterver> with a bit of logic :P
[17:52:36] <OndraSterver> run first ADC
[17:52:38] <OndraSterver> wait half the time
[17:52:43] <OndraSterver> run the second ADC on the same source
[17:52:50] <OndraSterver> first result, run again
[17:52:55] <OndraSterver> second result half the time later, run again
[17:52:56] <OndraSterver> mmmm
[17:53:01] * OndraSterver adds that to his notes
[17:54:08] <OndraSterver> I want to make some comparison of PWM DAC and real DAC :P
[17:54:32] <OndraSterver> and screenshot it both
[20:15:48] <Tom_itx> the first computer bug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H96566k.jpg
[22:30:22] <Richard_Cavell> We were talking about max current through AVR pins yesterday. Is there anything like the minimum current that an AVR can detect?
[22:30:45] <Richard_Cavell> Like I said, I'm used to dealing with LEDs and relays and so on where anything less than 10 mA won't power your components to get anything done
[22:32:15] <Tom_itx> minimum voltages are indicated in the electrical section of the pdf
[22:32:32] <Tom_itx> input currents are low
[22:36:57] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: the inputs are so high impedance that it basically do not matter how much current your source can provide
[22:36:59] <Casper> however
[22:37:18] <Casper> the pin have some parasitic capacitance, which limit the rise/fall speed
[22:37:34] <Casper> so extremelly small current could cause a slow responce
[22:44:40] <Richard_Cavell> minimum voltages, yes. I'm talking about current
[22:44:51] <Richard_Cavell> I just covered my circuit in epoxy. Works really well
[22:45:51] <theBear> v = r . i
[22:47:33] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: it's a fet input
[22:47:42] <Casper> it basically have no leakage
[22:47:53] <Richard_Cavell> But it has to carry current, right?
[22:47:59] <Casper> so no current requirement... however as I said, there is a parasitic capacitor there
[22:48:06] <Casper> that you have to charge, which need current
[22:48:17] <Casper> the higher the current, the faster it charge/discharge
[22:48:26] <Casper> and the faster it will reach the target voltage
[22:49:20] <Richard_Cavell> I'm not 100% sure that I understand
[22:50:50] <Casper> ok
[22:51:06] <Casper> the current will flow only until that parasitic capacitor is charged
[22:51:11] <Casper> then no more current flow
[22:51:44] <Casper> a capacitor will charge at a certain rate depending on the current
[22:51:51] <Casper> as you charge the voltage rise
[22:51:54] <Richard_Cavell> well at least I bought some 4k7 resistors today
[22:52:01] <Richard_Cavell> I was thinking about putting them in series with my 220s
[22:52:12] <Richard_Cavell> But as long as I have the 4k7s on the slave side it will still be okay
[22:52:43] <Casper> the lower the current, the slower the capacitor charge, the slower the voltage will raise
[22:53:15] <Casper> in other words, the higher the resistor, the slower it will react
[22:53:24] <Casper> also, the more noise prone it get
[22:53:58] <Richard_Cavell> I don't care about speed
[22:54:09] <Richard_Cavell> this is bitbanging at any old speed
[22:54:28] <Casper> but in general, you want as little resistance as possible
[22:54:55] <Richard_Cavell> but then I'm using current
[22:55:01] <Richard_Cavell> it just comes out of my battery and gets turned into heat
[22:55:05] <Richard_Cavell> and I only get 100 mA per port
[22:55:15] <Richard_Cavell> and 200 per chip
[22:55:31] <Casper> what are you powering?
[22:58:31] <Richard_Cavell> not powering anything. I'm sending signals to another AVr
[22:58:58] <Richard_Cavell> I don't even send Vcc through the connector, just common ground
[22:59:11] <Casper> then no current will flow if you connect an input to an output
[22:59:21] <Richard_Cavell> why not?
[22:59:34] <Casper> it is suggested to use a 220 ohms resistor as safety mesure, in case you set both as output
[22:59:44] <Casper> an avr input is over 1M resistance
[23:00:05] <Casper> the internal pullup is 20-60k
[23:00:26] <Casper> so very little current will flow if proprelly configured
[23:00:38] <Casper> so little that you do not calculate it
[23:00:44] <Richard_Cavell> ok well at the moment I have output of one AVR -> 220 ohm resistor -> 4700 ohm resistor -> input of another AVR
[23:01:07] <Richard_Cavell> there's no route to ground between the two chips
[23:01:24] <Casper> remove the 4k7, keep the 220R as coding error protection
[23:01:48] <Casper> and do connect both ground
[23:01:58] <Casper> else unpredictable result can happend
[23:02:25] <Richard_Cavell> what good does the 220 do because it's only between two chips, it doesn't sink to ground
[23:02:41] <Richard_Cavell> and I bought the 4k7s as a result of our discussion yesterday
[23:06:36] <Richard_Cavell> http://i.imgur.com/v2ufK.png http://i.imgur.com/ddtdi.png Look in the lower right corner
[23:06:40] <Richard_Cavell> of each diagram
[23:06:51] <Richard_Cavell> The master has 2 connections, one for each slave. Each slave connects to one master
[23:07:12] <Richard_Cavell> What do I do with those resistors? I've already soldered all the 220s on the master circuit
[23:09:47] <Casper> just put 220ohms, they are low enought to be basically transparent to the circuit
[23:10:02] <Casper> but high enought that if you do a coding error it can't kill the chips
[23:10:05] <eric_j> Richard_Cavell, you will do just fine with or without the resistors
[23:10:21] <Casper> but the 220 is optional
[23:12:05] <eric_j> CMOS outputs are difficult to kill by overloading
[23:12:23] <Casper> eric_j: but doable
[23:14:06] <eric_j> it's doable, but it would take some effort. certainly more than just using a D-sub to connect two boards together or whatnot
[23:14:44] <Casper> eric_j: prolonged short to vcc/gnd can do it
[23:14:52] <Richard_Cavell> well tell me what I do with these resistors. I've already soldered the 220s to the master board. Do I just leave the resistors out of the slaves?
[23:15:40] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: the 220R is optional, it's a programmer's error safety
[23:15:50] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[23:15:54] <Casper> the pin can be damaged if more than 40mA pass throught it
[23:16:04] <Richard_Cavell> well I guess I only need it on one side of the connection
[23:16:15] <Casper> the 220 limit it to about 23mA
[23:16:48] <Richard_Cavell> So I won't bother putting any resistors on the slave side
[23:16:57] <Casper> nope
[23:19:16] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[23:23:03] <eric_j> Richard_Cavell, as a data point on a project i'm currently working on: ~18k of resistance was too high (it was too slow). ~1.2k of resistance works well (up to a few MHz, which is all i need)
[23:31:41] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[23:31:45] <Richard_Cavell> Well I'll leave it at 220
[23:39:21] <eric_j> what's your transfer data rate?
[23:40:03] <Richard_Cavell> I haven't figured it but very slow
[23:40:25] <Richard_Cavell> I don't at all need speed
[23:40:34] <eric_j> you'll be fine then
[23:47:13] <shodan45> does an AVR need to have an external oscillator to program it?
[23:48:32] <Richard_Cavell> nope
[23:48:35] <Richard_Cavell> it has an internal one
[23:48:56] <Richard_Cavell> and if you're referring to just programming, I don't think it needs one at all for programming
[23:49:28] <shodan45> Richard_Cavell: hm, that's what I thought... I'm out of ideas on wtf is wrong with what I'm doing then :/
[23:50:04] <shodan45> I'm trying to read/write/anything an atmega 328p with an "AVR Pocket Programmer" from sparkfun
[23:51:00] <shodan45> the 328p is plugged into a ZIF socket that's soldered onto a http://evilmadscience.com/productsmenu/tinykitlist/74-atmegaxx8 board
[23:51:59] <shodan45> the programmer works fine with both an arduino Uno board and a cheapy clone board