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[00:02:47] <Kevin`> aren't they for isp, pdi, and tpi?
[00:03:01] <Kevin`> that's what I remember from looking at his design in the past at least
[00:10:00] <Richard_Cavell> so what does pdi offer that isp doesn't?
[00:10:59] <Richard_Cavell> Why do we need all these different programming methods?
[00:13:28] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Because Atmel keeps switching the programming method for various chips (Xmega uses PDI I believe). Not aware of any advantages (but maybe debugging or something).
[00:16:14] <Casper> I beleive it's less wires
[00:17:43] <Richard_Cavell> What they should do is create the superultramega AVR that just has everything.
[00:35:17] <OndraSterver> xmega is mega+more
[00:35:28] <OndraSterver> so once xmega with ethernet appears we will have everything.
[00:36:22] <OndraSterver> PDI contains also debug and uses only two pins compared to JTAG
[00:36:33] <OndraSterver> where one is reset
[00:36:39] <OndraSterver> so they put the special pins for it
[00:36:45] <OndraSterver> unlike for JTAG which takes half of PortB
[00:36:50] <OndraSterver> (may vary on some devices)
[00:37:05] <OndraSterver> TPI = ISP but for smaller amount of pins
[00:37:10] <OndraSterver> and no debug
[00:44:07] <Essobi> OndraSterver: I'll shite myself if they drop an xmega with ethernet.
[00:44:28] <Essobi> And it's relatively cheap.
[00:45:42] <Richard_Cavell> I'm trying to use Tom's programmer and it's not working. Ideas?
http://ideone.com/eR6oy
[00:46:29] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: maybe you lack the permission? maybe try as root and see if it work...
[00:46:39] <Casper> linux can be a pita sometime
[00:47:05] <Richard_Cavell> sudo doesn't change anything
[00:52:09] <dunz0r> Richard_Cavell; Maybe you need to specify the port directly? Like /dev/ttyACM0 or /dev/ttyUSB0.
[00:52:40] <dunz0r> Not sure how macs name their usb-serial-ports though.
[00:55:36] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: ping
[00:56:08] <Richard_Cavell> http://pastebin.com/2vhgDbpw
[01:26:52] <OSterver> damn, why do we have to write a test during today's English class.
[01:26:59] <OSterver> I wouldn't go to the school today :P
[01:34:03] <megal0maniac> specing: fwiw, the Pololu USB AVR programmer can do serial & ISP simultaneously
[01:37:11] <Richard_Cavell> I'll wait for Tom's reply. It's 1am where he lives
[01:37:45] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: People haven't noticed that you're on a Mac, it seems
[01:37:58] <megal0maniac> udev rules thing does not apply
[01:38:26] <Richard_Cavell> Should I post it to avrfreaks?
[01:40:29] <megal0maniac> If you want
[01:41:49] <megal0maniac> You sure the ISP cable has the correct orientation?
[01:41:58] <Richard_Cavell> yeah, it's marked on both sides
[01:42:11] <Richard_Cavell> and the error message is the same whether or not the cable is actually plugged in
[01:42:58] <megal0maniac> Have you installed libusb?
[01:43:05] <Richard_Cavell> on OS X?
[01:43:06] <Richard_Cavell> no
[01:43:19] <megal0maniac> Ah wait
[01:43:22] <megal0maniac> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/OSXISPMKII
[01:43:24] <megal0maniac> Try that
[01:43:46] <megal0maniac> There's a note at the bottom of the page, where he basically says "ignore this article, I fixed it another way"
[01:44:36] <Richard_Cavell> for one thing that's an arduino
[01:44:45] <megal0maniac> Basically...avrdude -c avrisp2 -p m328p -v -P serial
[01:44:50] <megal0maniac> No, Richard
[01:44:53] <megal0maniac> It's avrdude
[01:44:58] <megal0maniac> Read between the lines
[01:45:28] <Richard_Cavell> ser_open(): can't open device "serial": No such file or directory
[01:48:10] <megal0maniac> I'd check, but my 250gb mac harddrive recently decided to become 1296gb and won't work
[01:50:28] <megal0maniac> You can try install
http://www.dm9.se/?p=659
[01:50:58] <megal0maniac> And then use -P usb again
[01:52:16] <Richard_Cavell> that won't even stay open on my machine (OS X 10.8)
[01:52:33] <Richard_Cavell> Why is it always so bloody difficult?
[01:52:53] <megal0maniac> Heh :)
[01:52:57] <megal0maniac> Only for you
[01:53:12] <megal0maniac> You're just lucky that way
[01:53:39] <Richard_Cavell> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=125914
[01:54:32] <megal0maniac> Might be good just to specify that it's a LUFA based AVRISP MKII programmer
[01:55:04] <megal0maniac> They'll find it if they follow the link, but people don't like looking for your problem
[01:55:15] <Richard_Cavell> what does LUFA mean?
[01:56:00] * megal0maniac googles LUFA
[01:56:08] * megal0maniac clicks on first link in results...
[01:56:40] <megal0maniac> http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/AVRISP.php
[01:57:03] <Richard_Cavell> ok, amendment made
[02:14:30] <megal0maniac> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=112326
[02:14:35] <megal0maniac> Heh :)
[02:18:30] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Applying that patch might still be worth your while
[02:18:45] <Richard_Cavell> Maybe so, but it doesn't address my problem
[02:19:10] <megal0maniac> I was under the impression that your programmer isn't working in osx
[02:19:25] <Richard_Cavell> correct
[02:19:32] <Richard_Cavell> in that case his problem is a 12 second delay
[02:19:34] <megal0maniac> Well it can't work less
[02:23:11] <megal0maniac> Meh. Tried to check on 10.7.4 but it won't boot
[02:51:37] <megal0maniac> Well, it works nicely on linux, and in atmel studio
[03:00:18] <megal0maniac> 12648430 time
[03:36:12] <megal0maniac> Anyone have experience using AS in Wine?...
[04:12:05] <Tom_itx> i keep meaning to add mac instructions to my page. i know you can do it but i don't own a mac
[04:12:17] <Richard_Cavell> oh ok
[04:12:19] <Tom_itx> i'll ask steffanx when he comes on, he uses mac
[04:12:23] <Richard_Cavell> are you saying that your device is PC only?
[04:12:27] <Tom_itx> no
[04:12:32] <Tom_itx> it will work on mac
[04:12:35] <Richard_Cavell> it really shouldn't matter I wouldn't think
[04:15:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=50383
[04:15:03] <Tom_itx> see if that may help
[04:16:18] <Richard_Cavell> I doubt it
[04:16:21] <Richard_Cavell> That's 5 years old
[04:16:31] <Richard_Cavell> There's a package called CrossPack that everyone uses now on OS X
[04:17:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/setup-mac.html
[04:18:38] <Richard_Cavell> look I'm just going to wait for avrfreaks to talk to me
[04:18:53] <Richard_Cavell> The problem I'm having with Windows is almost certainly a hardware/driver issue that's nothing to do with AVR
[04:19:10] <Tom_itx> steffanx can help when he wakes up i'm rather sure
[04:19:20] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[04:19:46] <Tom_itx> with avrdude under windows you need a different driver than with studio
[04:19:54] <Richard_Cavell> yeah
[04:20:01] <Tom_itx> studio uses jungo and avrdude uses libusb
[04:20:05] <Richard_Cavell> I've successfully used avrdude with my STK600 under both OS X and Windows
[04:20:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J36/5.b
[04:21:03] <Tom_itx> that talks about crosspak
[04:21:19] <Richard_Cavell> Yeah
[04:21:35] <Richard_Cavell> I know you're trying to help but I need to narrow down the problem here
[04:37:55] <tld> Going from 12V to 3.3V, for a *low* powered device, running off of a battery. Not sure what's the most sensible way for that. A linear regulator would give me low quiescent power, but also low efficiency. A step-down would give me higher efficiency, but also higher quiescent power, and quite possibly requiring a minimum load (I could run that regulator only part of the time though, using a cap for buffer). I could also use a tiny transformer,
[04:37:55] <tld> that could be harder to find. Any thoughts or advice?
[04:38:40] <specing> black regulator
[04:40:30] <tld> hmm
[04:40:32] <tld> interesting
[04:40:34] <tld> thank you. :)
[04:40:36] <tld> I'll read up. :)
[04:41:41] <tld> this is actually looking good
[04:47:50] <tld> looks impressive, especially for anything above 10mA
[04:47:59] <tld> I'm hoping to be less, but I'm not sure I can meet that yet.
[04:48:38] <tld> (core of the thing is something along the lines of an amp (possibly just transistor or small fet), a comparator and a reference, and not very much else.
[04:48:55] <tld> (mostly just amping and counting some pulses, would need an mcu, but that should be mostly sleeping)
[04:49:41] <tld> thanks. :)
[04:53:14] <specing> Tell me if it works ;)
[04:56:29] <tld> I think I need to poke some numbers at seeing what I need first… Mostly seems like efficiency goes towards 10% at 0.3mA. Pretty sharp rise though, so if I end up drawing 10mA or more, this is definitively getting built. :)
[05:09:17] <tld> I'm thinking combo… burning off 12V -> 3.3V in a linear shouldn't matter too much if I end up drawing like 12uA, then switchmode when I draw more?
[05:42:55] <r00t|home> tld: just add a 3v button cell? ;)
[05:43:05] <r00t|home> for your 12uA
[05:43:34] <tld> oh, that… was just meant as an example… I'll probably end up somewhere like 2-3mA. :(
[05:43:44] <tld> hmm
[05:43:49] <tld> rechargeable button cell?
[05:44:24] <r00t|home> also, you can buy switching regulator modules at ~$0.5 a piece on ebay... i jut got a ten-pack in the mail today
[05:44:31] <r00t|home> i'd use one of those and be done
[05:46:19] <r00t|home> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=KIS-3R33S&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15
[05:47:27] <r00t|home> ten for just under $5
[05:48:01] <r00t|home> (those modules work fine, but i heard you might need an extra capacitor at the output)
[05:49:09] <tld> yeah, I have something similar. this is a better price though, thanks. :)
[05:49:55] <tld> what's probably the issue with these things though, is that they often either have a high quiescent current, or a high minimum load.
[05:49:58] <r00t|home> probably cheaper than buying a linear regulator at a local store ;)
[05:50:00] <tld> which kills for low-power battery use.
[05:50:13] <tld> *anything* is cheaper than buying things at a local store. ;)
[05:50:34] <tld> thing is, if I were to run an attiny13a on a battery for example, that might need like 200uA
[05:51:08] <tld> if I use a regulator with 5mA quiescent current, or minimum load, that'd mean I'd spend 25 times as much power just keeping the regulator working, as I'd spend on my project.
[05:51:25] <r00t|home> as i said, just add an extra battery ;)
[05:51:30] <tld> sure, doing 12V -> 3.3V I could spend some of what I'd save, but…
[05:51:35] <tld> I'm actually considering it.
[05:52:01] <tld> some of these regulators have an enable/disable-thingy, so I can switch them on just when i need more current.
[05:52:09] <tld> looks like the one you linked has it.
[05:53:08] <r00t|home> "more" - than the battery can give you?
[05:53:31] <r00t|home> you could still run your loads off 12V, no?
[05:53:44] <tld> yeah, that's what I meant, sorry, badly put on my part.
[05:54:00] <tld> I mean I could draw from a cr2032 or some such, for the standby bits, and 12V lead acid through step-down regulator for on-times.
[05:55:21] <r00t|home> just that at that voltage you can't really effort diodes to isolate the power sources from eachother...
[05:55:55] <tld> cr2032s are about 3.3V, aren't they?
[05:56:03] <tld> or 3.1V or some such?
[05:56:20] <OSterver> 3v nominal
[05:56:25] <r00t|home> depends on charge state too
[05:56:43] <tld> 3.0V nominal… hmm.
[05:56:58] <tld> 0.3V schottky-drop, leaving 2.7, mcu runs down to about 1.64V…
[05:57:00] <tld> should work.
[05:57:49] <tld> alternatively I could skip the diode, and just hardwire power for the mcu to always go to the battery directly
[05:57:56] <r00t|home> or maybe just a resistor between battery and regulator output, to load the battery when the regulator is on
[05:58:12] <tld> yeah
[05:58:30] <tld> ton of ways to do this…
[05:58:49] <tld> I could also just skip the battery, skip low-power regulator, and just charge a cap when main-power reg is on.
[05:58:50] <tld> hmm.
[05:59:23] <tld> some to think of it, I might want to have main regulator on for about half a sec twice a minute… could be enough actually.
[05:59:31] <tld> s/some/come
[06:00:56] <r00t|home> what would you want it for that often?
[06:01:16] <r00t|home> plus, at that cycle, i would expect startup/shutdown losses that are higher than the savings anyway
[06:01:18] <tld> keep an xbee-association open, and do some reporting
[06:01:24] <tld> yeah, wondering about that.
[06:01:43] <tld> I suppose I really need to get a spreadsheet out, punch numbers, then build and measure.
[06:02:03] <r00t|home> maybe build a charge regulator for a cap, that reloads a capacitor from the regulator whenever it's voltage drops too low ;)
[06:02:24] <tld> that, and figure out optimal cap size
[06:02:29] <tld> 10F should do. :-P
[06:02:53] <tld> got to head off for a bit though, picking up kid at school.
[06:02:54] <tld> *poof*
[06:10:52] <karlp> any particular reason you want to use 12v source for 3v3 parts?
[06:11:02] <karlp> are you usng the 12v for something else I presume?
[06:11:21] <karlp> you cna get quite efficient buck converters, but you start having to pay for it.
[06:30:12] <t4nk293> hey is there any diff between: if ( (PINA & 0b10000000) == 0 ) and if( (PINA &= 0b10000000) == 0 ) i know there is a = extra...
[06:30:35] <OSterver> yes
[06:30:52] <OSterver> the second one will gottle PA7
[06:30:53] <OSterver> toggle
[06:30:54] <Richard_Cavell> yes
[06:30:58] <tld> karlp: lead acid.
[06:31:08] <t4nk293> ?
[06:31:11] <Richard_Cavell> t4nk293: The second one modifies PINA
[06:31:25] <t4nk293> and the first one ?
[06:31:34] <t4nk293> just compares?
[06:31:35] <OSterver> just does logic AND on PINA value
[06:31:37] <OSterver> and compares to 0
[06:31:49] <karlp> tld, unless you're planning on using hte lead acid for some other rather heavy uses, you might as well just treat the lead acid as "mains"
[06:31:53] <t4nk293> and the second gives pin a a new value ?
[06:31:58] <tld> t4nk293: "a+b" gets "replaced" by the value of "a+b", while "a+=b" adds b to a, then "replaces" the statement with that.
[06:32:12] <karlp> you've got so much power there compared to 1 single AA or antyhing normally talked about for "battery powered uC"
[06:32:46] <t4nk293> okay i think i got it.. thanks :d
[06:34:25] <tld> karlp: that's generally the idea… mains-replacement (I have no mains where this stuff will go)
[06:35:42] <t4nk293> one more question... to make a sound in my stk my teacher told me to use this code..... PORTB =~ PINB; but couldnt i just use PORTB = (PINB & 0x00) ? or PORTB = 0x00;
[06:35:56] <karlp> even acheap buck reg like MCP16301 is only ~2mA quiescant
[06:36:09] <karlp> gonna take a long time for that to add up on on lead acid.
[06:36:24] <r00t|home> tld: btw, if it's a car battery, you will need some heavy filtering on the input, to avoid your circuit suffering on ignition
[06:36:56] <karlp> r00t|home: I think the car is not involved.
[06:36:58] <karlp> just the battery
[06:37:10] <r00t|home> how do you know? ;)
[06:37:36] <t4nk293> one more question... to make a sound in my stk my teacher told me to use this code..... PORTB =~ PINB; but couldnt i just use PORTB = (PINB & 0x00) ? or PORTB = 0x00;
[06:37:41] <karlp> I don't, but "mains replacement" doesnt' normally mean, "i'm putting this thing in my car and I care about battery lifetime"
[06:37:54] <Horologium> t4nk293, no
[06:37:55] <karlp> if it's car mounted, you don't consider it to be battery powered, but to be DC powered
[06:37:57] <Horologium> simple answer
[06:38:22] <Horologium> because what you want to use just turns the pins off...the other one toggles them.
[06:38:52] <t4nk293> why ? . .. as i see it.. PORTB = ~PINB; just give portB the opposite value right
[06:39:04] <Horologium> yes.
[06:39:04] <tld> karlp is right, and his assumptions were good. :)
[06:39:07] <Horologium> toggles it
[06:39:09] <t4nk293> and since the value of pinB is 0xff t ostart with
[06:39:11] <r00t|home> Horologium: sure you mean "toggle" and not just "set to 0"?
[06:39:12] <Horologium> on and off and on and off
[06:39:34] <t4nk293> i can just give it the new value ox00
[06:39:41] <Horologium> t4nk293, you need to turn it on first...then toggle it.
[06:39:43] <t4nk293> cause thats the opposite of oxff
[06:39:45] <tld> it's just going on a smaller (7Ah or so, not car-sized) lead acid in a basement.
[06:39:47] <r00t|home> er... actually it sets all but pin 0?
[06:40:23] <Horologium> not sure if =~ is the right thing to use either really.
[06:40:26] <t4nk293> this is the code i have ....
[06:40:28] <t4nk293> if((PINA &= 0b10000000) == 0) { PORTB =~ PINB; _delay_us(956); }
[06:40:32] <tld> 2mA is probably enough that I shouldn't worry about it.
[06:40:38] <karlp> tld: so, what do you expect the application load current to be?
[06:40:44] <t4nk293> this makes a sound when i press button
[06:40:47] <karlp> and, does it have to be an SLA?
[06:40:54] <tld> just "feels" a lot, because the attiny13a goes down to 0.2mA.
[06:41:03] <tld> karlp: Doesn't have to be an SLA, but that's what I have laying around.
[06:41:13] <t4nk293> but i dont get why i need that ~
[06:41:17] <karlp> I mena, 7Ah is cool, but if it's easier and cheaper to use, say 2 D cells that last for two years or more?
[06:41:22] <tld> right now, I think it's mostly a matter of me not having done enough of this stuff to have properly calibrated gut-feeling.
[06:41:36] <karlp> depending on what your app needs to do, 1 or 2 AA's can last two years too
[06:41:38] <tld> 2D-cells is worthwhile considering.
[06:41:50] <Horologium> t4nk293, ~ means not.
[06:41:56] <karlp> tossing a 7Ah SLA in means you can basically ignore any lower power programming tricks :)
[06:42:04] <Horologium> ~ PINB means to invert PINB
[06:42:05] <tld> it also depends on how I regulate. If I burn off the extra voltage using a linear regulator, I might as well use 2xD-cell
[06:42:08] <OSterver> I have got here old D cell
[06:42:12] <Horologium> in other words, toggle.
[06:42:12] <OSterver> like 17 years or so
[06:42:17] <tld> if I use step-down, so I get something for that extra voltage, SLA is tempting
[06:42:17] <OSterver> and still has 1.5V without load :P
[06:42:26] <Horologium> turn on if off or turn off if on.
[06:42:44] <t4nk293> yes but if PINB is oxff cant i juts give it the value 0x00 .. .isnt that the same as ~
[06:42:51] <karlp> that MCP 16301 I linked is 95% efficiency or so, no min load, 2mA queiescant
[06:42:57] <Horologium> t4nk293, yes.
[06:43:09] <Horologium> but then you need to add lots of extra code.
[06:43:14] <t4nk293> then why cant i write PORTB = 0x00;
[06:43:26] <Horologium> well, not lots, but some.
[06:43:33] <Horologium> that turns the pins off.
[06:43:44] <Horologium> how about turning them back on again?
[06:44:01] <Horologium> to get sound out you need to turn the pin on and off and on and off over and over.
[06:44:20] <t4nk293> so PORTB = 0x00; is not the same as PORTB =~ PINB
[06:44:23] <OSterver> study PWM :)
[06:44:30] <Horologium> that's what I have been saying!
[06:44:31] <t4nk293> if pinB = 0xff
[06:44:32] <Horologium> sheesh.
[06:44:34] <OSterver> PINB != PORTB
[06:44:59] <Horologium> have you even looked at C operators?
[06:45:02] <OSterver> PINB = reading for the pin if it is input
[06:45:03] <t4nk293> yes
[06:45:08] <OSterver> PORTB = "pullups"
[06:45:08] <Horologium> obviously not.
[06:45:12] <Horologium> or you would understand.
[06:45:37] <t4nk293> i did
[06:46:10] <Horologium> sorry, but headache makes me not deal with ignorance well this morning. I suggest learning what bitwise operators actually do.
[06:46:16] <t4nk293> but i dont get why PORTB = 0x00; is not the same as PORTB =~ PINB
[06:46:35] <Horologium> ok...step by step..
[06:46:46] <Horologium> PORTB = 0x00; sets port B to 0...period...
[06:46:51] <Horologium> does NOTHING ELSE
[06:46:52] <t4nk293> yes
[06:47:28] <Horologium> PORTB =~ PINB; first reads PINB...reads the pin states...second, INVERTS THEM....third writes them out to the PORTB
[06:47:53] <Horologium> so if it starts out as 0x00 then it ends up 0xFF
[06:47:56] <t4nk293> okay but if pin B is 0xff then it will send 0x00 to pornB right ?
[06:48:05] <Horologium> if it starts off 0xFF then it ends up 0x00
[06:48:06] <t4nk293> port*
[06:48:09] <OSterver> how can you be sure what 0xFF is on PINB?
[06:48:13] <OSterver> that*
[06:48:17] <Horologium> if it starts off 0xF0 then it ends up 0x0F
[06:48:27] <t4nk293> yes so both codes send 0x00 to portB
[06:48:28] <t4nk293> ?
[06:48:33] <Horologium> right...that's what I just said.
[06:48:38] <t4nk293> then its the same code?
[06:48:49] <Horologium> it does not matter what the port is set to the first time around...it always just TOGGLES IT!
[06:48:50] <t4nk293> same function
[06:48:54] <t4nk293> and both should work
[06:48:56] <Horologium> NO
[06:49:11] <Horologium> because if it starts out 0x00 then it ends up 0x00 if you just write 0x00 to it.
[06:49:15] <Horologium> so you get no toggle.
[06:49:17] <t4nk293> if we assume that pinB is oxff
[06:49:30] <Horologium> why are you assuming that? are you setting it at that?
[06:49:31] <t4nk293> then its the same ?
[06:50:04] <t4nk293> hmm when does it make a sound when its 0xff or ox00
[06:50:08] <Horologium> if it starts out at 0xFF then both do the same thing....but if it starts out anything else then they do not do the same thing.
[06:50:22] <t4nk293> okay yeah
[06:50:24] <Horologium> it makes sound when it toggles back and forth between the two.
[06:50:33] <Horologium> over and over and over...generating a square wave..
[06:50:52] <Horologium> if you change your delay value it will change the tone generated.
[06:50:58] <t4nk293> thats the thing i dont get
[06:51:09] <Horologium> how do you make sound on a speaker?
[06:51:10] <t4nk293> how the delay change the tone, and about the waves
[06:51:12] <Horologium> just give it power?
[06:51:15] <Horologium> no,,
[06:51:34] <Horologium> you turn it on and off...or give it an alternating wave of some kind.
[06:51:38] <Horologium> not just steady voltage.
[06:51:49] <t4nk293> yes to change the frequency right ?
[06:52:29] <Horologium> the frequency of the pulses is what is the sound...
[06:52:46] <Horologium> if you lower your delay you increase the frequency of the pulses and the frequency of the sound.
[06:53:27] <t4nk293> i see
[06:53:41] <Horologium> so you need to TOGGLE the output...not just set it to 0
[06:53:57] <t4nk293> so so if i wrote portB = 0xff: portB = 0x00; that would work too ?
[06:54:09] <Horologium> somewhat..
[06:54:17] <Horologium> you should put a pause between them.
[06:54:23] <t4nk293> okay
[06:54:27] <t4nk293> so the speaker actually turn on and of f
[06:54:31] <t4nk293> thats what make the sound
[06:54:37] <Horologium> but using the invert... ~ ... simplifies things.
[06:54:42] <t4nk293> yes.
[06:54:44] <Horologium> THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!
[06:54:46] <Horologium> sheesh.
[06:54:54] <Horologium> is what I said 2 pages ago.
[06:55:05] <t4nk293> i just thought that because stk500 works on reverse logic
[06:55:12] <t4nk293> that sending 0x00 to it would make it give osund
[06:55:15] <t4nk293> sound
[06:55:20] <t4nk293> like it does with the diodes
[06:55:22] <Horologium> it has a speaker on it.
[06:55:25] <Horologium> not a buzzer
[06:55:36] <Horologium> if it was a buzzer, then, yes.
[06:55:46] <t4nk293> yeah thats just what i need to understand
[06:55:51] <t4nk293> need
[06:55:52] <t4nk293> ed
[06:55:54] <Horologium> again, someone hasn't bothered to study things, like the schematic of the hardware he is working with.
[06:56:16] <t4nk293> whatever
[06:57:07] <Horologium> this is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with programmers of any system....they forget to learn the hardware they are working with so don't know how to properly work with it...from microcontrollers to mainframes to PCs.
[06:57:08] <karlp> tld: TPS62120 is pretty much perfect for your 12V system. 2$ in singles though...
[06:57:23] <OSterver> $2 is still cheap :P
[06:57:31] <karlp> ish,
[06:57:47] <t4nk293> i just started studying this... im not a programmer. just started university
[06:57:54] <OSterver> so did I
[06:57:55] <OSterver> .
[06:58:11] <OSterver> but I am "hardware guy" from middle school
[06:58:16] <OSterver> who stupidly went for IT uni :(
[06:58:23] <megal0maniac> I haven't started yet :D
[06:58:47] <t4nk293> so this is one of many subjects
[06:59:04] <t4nk293> and its not like i love reading schematics in my free time
[06:59:23] <OSterver> then you are gonna have a bad time
[06:59:35] <megal0maniac> t4nk293: Why not? :)
[07:00:02] <t4nk293> because we spend so much time on school and homework.. that i need time for other stuff in my free time :D
[07:00:09] <Horologium> I never went to university.
[07:00:17] <Horologium> just started learning electronics when I was 12
[07:00:28] <Horologium> self taught electronics and programming.
[07:00:43] <megal0maniac> Horologium: How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking?
[07:00:52] <Horologium> if you don't know the hardware, how are you going to know how to work with it?
[07:00:56] <Horologium> megal0maniac, 45
[07:01:04] <Horologium> it is a hobby.
[07:01:08] <Horologium> I fix copiers for a living.
[07:01:11] <megal0maniac> Likewise :)
[07:01:18] <megal0maniac> About the hobby - not the copiers
[07:01:22] <t4nk293> ha.d
[07:01:34] <OSterver> well
[07:01:41] <OSterver> so far all I have ever needed I have learned at home
[07:01:51] <OSterver> usually from the internet
[07:01:55] <OSterver> all the electronics, micros, ..
[07:02:02] <megal0maniac> Except when you don't have internet :P
[07:02:12] <OSterver> hehe
[07:02:23] <Horologium> Forrest M. Mims III was my electronics teacher....bought every book of his I could from radio shack.
[07:02:28] <OSterver> that reminds me.. WHY THE F do we do electronic stuff IN BLOODY MATHEMATICA
[07:02:35] <OSterver> by manually doing all the stuff
[07:02:38] <OSterver> when one can just install LTSpice.
[07:02:54] * megal0maniac googles LTSpice
[07:03:05] <Tom_itx> so you remember it
[07:03:08] <Tom_itx> silly
[07:03:29] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Rather to find out what it is
[07:03:39] <Tom_itx> simulator
[07:03:44] <Tom_itx> for circuits
[07:03:45] <megal0maniac> Do people do that?
[07:03:47] <OSterver> made by Linear
[07:03:51] <megal0maniac> (Google stuff to remember it)
[07:04:05] <Tom_itx> google will own your ass then
[07:04:05] <t4nk293> is it like multisim ?
[07:04:10] <OSterver> yes
[07:04:15] <OSterver> but free
[07:04:16] <Tom_itx> i like to be a free thinker
[07:04:58] <t4nk293> if anyone cant recommend a good book for electronics then tell me, or a good video site anything .d .
[07:05:07] <megal0maniac> Google is going to run a government or something one day.
[07:05:09] <Tom_itx> use your own brain then you won't have to rely on someone else's
[07:05:10] <Horologium> Getting Started In Electronics
[07:05:15] <Horologium> by Forrest M. Mims III
[07:05:32] <t4nk293> ty
[07:05:37] <karlp> mims as your teacher would hve been cool
[07:06:00] <karlp> where wsa he youre teacher?
[07:06:01] <Horologium> I would love to meet the man.
[07:06:11] <Tom_itx> http://openbookproject.net/electricCircuits/
[07:06:13] <karlp> you mean the books?
[07:06:21] <Horologium> he was my teacher in that I bought his books.
[07:06:21] <karlp> oh, I thought you had him as a teacher somewhere, and also bought his books
[07:06:30] <t4nk293> ty
[07:06:38] <karlp> in that case Horowitz and Hill were my teachers.
[07:06:43] <karlp> twice as many == better right?
[07:06:59] <Horologium> and K&R were my C teachers.
[07:11:16] <tld> karlp: sorry for afk there for a bit… thanks for the tip. :)
[07:12:26] <tld> karlp: and you're right, the TPS62120 seems pretty darn close to perfect. :)
[07:12:52] <tld> karlp: available in sot23, so I can actually use it, and 10uA quiescent is way better than the usual 2-7mA for this kind of thing.
[07:15:39] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: you there?
[07:15:52] <Richard_Cavell> Can you show me the command line used for your programmer? The one that I bought.
[07:17:12] <tld> karlp: You wouldn't happen to know about anything similar, supporting higher powers when not in low-power mode? (max I expect to ever draw is about 350mA, which is a bit above the big-brother TPS62125).
[07:22:40] <karlp> wasn't 62301 600mA?
[07:23:51] * karlp shrugs, I normally work the other way sorry, 1 or 2 x AA up to 3v3. and max system power < 50mA.
[07:24:34] <OSterver> why are we using that bloody Wolfram Mathematica and manually writing all the equations
[07:24:44] <OSterver> and then wondering why half of the people get wrong results
[07:24:46] <OSterver> instead this?!
http://clip2net.com/s/2oHAQ
[07:29:53] <tld> karlp: not to worry. at least, now I've learned that there are actually switchmodes with low enough quiescent that it's possible to use them, without loosing too much. the rest is just dipping my head in a huge pile of datasheets. thanks for your help and input. :)
[07:31:06] <tld> karlp: actually, the thing you tipped me about (TPS62120) is perfect for most things I do off of 12V, this specific case is just an expention, needing stronger radio for more range.
[07:31:08] <tld> thanks again. :)
[07:31:12] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: Your programmer works from AVR studio perfectly, it's avrdude that I can't get it working with.
[07:34:12] <Tom_itx> under windows?
[07:34:49] <Richard_Cavell> I can get it working under Atmel Studio on Windows 7 just fine. I cannot get it to work on OS X under avrdude, and I cannot get avrdude on Windows to work.
[07:35:12] <Tom_itx> if you're trying to get it to work under windows with avrdude you will need to reflash the firmware with the avrdude version
[07:35:23] <Tom_itx> i see no reason to do that if studio works for you
[07:35:41] <Richard_Cavell> oh
[07:35:50] <Tom_itx> it has to do with the different drivers ( jungo and libusb )
[07:35:56] <Richard_Cavell> the programmer actually has different firmware for avrdude vs Atmel Studio?
[07:36:06] <Tom_itx> for windows only
[07:36:36] <Tom_itx> the loaded firmware will work on studio, linux avrdude or osx avrdude
[07:36:37] <Richard_Cavell> Okay. Well I'll leave it working with Atmel Studio, since Atmel Studio can sort of do everything.
[07:37:08] <Richard_Cavell> alright. Well I'd still like to get it working with OS X.
[07:37:13] <Richard_Cavell> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=1002129#1002129 that's the latest
[07:37:22] <Tom_itx> maybe Steffanx will wake up in a bit
[07:37:28] <Tom_itx> i think he's in skool now
[07:37:59] <Tom_itx> i'm quite sure it will work
[07:41:01] <Tom_itx> Richard_Cavell, you could try adding a -B32 to the cmd line but i doubt that would be it
[07:41:41] <Richard_Cavell> yeah I did that already
[08:32:15] <Kre10s> not a direct avr quextion
[08:32:34] * OSterver is STILL searching for the bloody ruler
[08:34:12] <Kre10s> ... I want to use one ultrasonic transducer to produce a 'ping' as well as receive the reflection. I can produce the desired frequency with the avr's timer. but how would i switch between sending and receiving mode?
[08:55:49] <jacekowski> Kre10s: depends on transducers
[08:56:24] <jacekowski> have you checked in the datasheet
[08:58:21] <Kre10s> I have some examples for transmitting circuits and receiving circuits. but using them means using two transducers. I want to do it with one. so im wondering what the general method for switching between the circuits was... if there is one.
[08:59:19] <OSterver> CapnKernel, mornin :)
[08:59:21] <OSterver> (not for you)
[08:59:49] <OSterver> CapnKernel, evenin :)
[09:00:57] <CapnKernel> OSterver: hi!
[09:02:31] <OSterver> CapnKernel, see, I have got 5 boards I need to manufacture. But they are either very small and thus I'd be overpaying anybody fixed (itead, seeed) or a bit too big (54mm wide instead 50mm limit). I do wonder if you had any special "prices"? The boards are: 9x5.5cm, 7x5.5, 7x5.5, 7x2.5 and 5x2.5 :)
[09:03:14] <OSterver> you can get it into 20cm x 10cm size including some space between the boards
[09:07:18] <CapnKernel> Let's talk PM
[09:07:30] <OSterver> mkay
[09:25:07] <OSterver> back to my xboard - how am I supposed to make the pins 5V compatible? I can't use series resistors in order to clamp it, because then I would not be able to drive high currents :P
[09:38:35] <megal0maniac> Buffer chip?
[09:38:46] <megal0maniac> 3v3 output, but 5v tolerant
[09:38:51] <OSterver> but
[09:38:52] <OSterver> how?
[09:38:55] <megal0maniac> Magic
[09:38:57] <megal0maniac> And ICs
[09:38:57] <OSterver> in order for it to output 5V :)
[09:39:01] <megal0maniac> Ah.
[09:39:05] <OSterver> or 3.3v
[09:39:08] <OSterver> that could be selectable
[09:39:10] <OSterver> no prob in that
[09:39:22] <OSterver> but make it 5v compatible when 3v3 source is used?
[09:39:33] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... Level translator. But you'd need 2 transistors per io...
[09:39:41] <megal0maniac> And it doesn't always work for everything
[09:39:44] <megal0maniac> i.e. PDI
[09:39:50] <megal0maniac> Pullups cause havok
[09:39:54] <megal0maniac> havoc
[09:39:56] <OSterver> note that I don't want just simple level translator, I also need the option to source or sink the regular 20mA per pin
[09:40:28] <megal0maniac> Meh
[09:40:33] <megal0maniac> Impossibru!
[09:40:58] <OSterver> :P
[09:41:02] <megal0maniac> Or at least I don't know
[09:41:09] <megal0maniac> I'm just trying to sound like I know stuff
[09:41:21] <megal0maniac> Off to work with me
[09:41:33] <creep> 74LVC series can to that.
[09:41:41] <OSterver> but
[09:41:41] <creep> tolerant upto 5V
[09:41:43] <OSterver> will I fit them?
[09:41:51] <OSterver> 74lvc244?
[09:42:28] <OSterver> or some bidirectional variant of those
[09:42:33] <creep> for input, for output voltage translation you need open collector out
[09:42:39] <OSterver> :P
[09:42:52] <OSterver> yeah I think I will not bother with 5V IO
[09:42:59] <creep> or use fets/transistors...
[09:43:00] <OSterver> since the 5V out is giving out only 3v3
[09:43:41] <creep> you probably do not need 5V if you use 3V3 system
[09:43:53] <OSterver> it is arduino compatible board though
[09:44:05] <creep> for usb you have 5V and you use an LDO regulator to make your 3.3V or less
[09:44:06] <OSterver> meh
[09:44:14] <OSterver> LDO or SMPS, yes
[09:44:40] <creep> i disassembled a bunch of LDO regulators from dead motherboards
[09:45:05] <OSterver> I mean, my "arduino size compatible boards" have SMPS
[09:45:09] <OSterver> but the breadboard ones have LDOs
[09:45:42] <creep> you do not need smps if you only have a microcontroller that is not eating 100mA from 30V in
[09:45:59] <OSterver> but you can source almost 50% more current from USB :P
[09:46:09] <OSterver> I want it to be as complete as possible
[09:46:25] <creep> usb standard states 500mA-800mA
[09:46:29] <OSterver> yes
[09:46:36] <OSterver> with ldo you still have 0.5A
[09:46:37] <creep> you can always use an adapter
[09:46:40] <OSterver> with SMPS you have about 0.7A
[09:46:54] <creep> hm ok, why do you need that much power?:
[09:47:00] <OSterver> you *still* don't understand that it is clone of arduion
[09:47:03] <OSterver> which will be sold
[09:47:14] <OSterver> so I do not know what they will plug in
[09:47:16] <OSterver> and try to drive
[09:47:23] <creep> oh
[09:48:00] <creep> so playing around
[09:48:13] <creep> an 1W led can take 350mA ...
[09:49:56] <creep> i like the 1.8V system too
[09:50:08] <creep> lower power and faster
[09:50:40] <creep> and still possible to level translate using transistors
[09:53:15] <creep> OSterver<< for example a stepper motor driver will probably not work well without external power
[10:21:01] <karlp> OSterver: you simply do not make your xboards 5v compat :)
[10:21:40] <OSterver> karlp, that is my final offer, yes :P
[10:43:15] <tld> looking over the xboard, it's actually fairly well laid out I think.
[10:46:02] <OndraSterver> which one?
[10:46:34] <tld> coco
[10:46:47] <OndraSterver> you have got brd for it? :P
[10:47:20] <tld> brd?
[10:47:31] <tld> I haven't gotten an xboard coco yet.
[10:47:41] <tld> I'm planning to order one on the 23rd, if you remind me.
[10:47:47] <tld> just looking over the picture on the intertubes.
[10:48:34] <OndraSterver> ah
[10:48:43] <tld> Two things I'm curious about… what's IC2, and what's the square left of the 5V-intolerant-warning?
[10:48:44] <OndraSterver> I need to order parts for another ones though :D
[10:49:08] <OndraSterver> IC2 = 3v3 LDO
[10:49:15] <OndraSterver> and the left thing would be reset button
[10:50:16] <tld> will the board be happy if I just feed it 3.3V directly on the top-left 3V3-pin?
[10:50:25] <OndraSterver> I suppose so
[10:50:32] <OndraSterver> I haven't tried it
[10:51:42] <OndraSterver> I know I have accidentaly burned one SMPS controller once. But this is LDO
[10:54:35] <tld> my guess is that it'll probably be fine…
[10:56:05] <OndraSterver> do you remember my rant about those crappy and POS Suns we use at school?
[10:56:06] <OndraSterver> well
[10:56:09] <OndraSterver> I have now done this..
[10:56:10] <OndraSterver> moravon5@fray3:/home/stud/moravon5>gcc -v
[10:56:10] <OndraSterver> Reading specs from /usr/sfw/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.10/3.4.3/specs
[10:56:10] <OndraSterver> Configured with: /sfw10/builds/build/sfw10-patch/usr/src/cmd/gcc/gcc-3.4.3/configure --prefix=/usr/sfw --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/as --without-gnu-as --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --without-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared
[10:56:10] <OndraSterver> Thread model: posix
[10:56:10] <OndraSterver> gcc version 3.4.3 (csl-sol210-3_4-branch+sol_rpath)
[10:56:13] <OndraSterver> ............
[10:56:28] <OndraSterver> GCC 3.4.3
[10:56:29] <OndraSterver> November 4, 2004 (changes)
[10:56:30] <OndraSterver> :( :(
[10:56:59] <tld> … :(
[10:57:11] <tld> that's just no fun.
[10:57:23] <OndraSterver> no
[10:57:24] <OndraSterver> that is just AWFUL
[10:57:40] <tld> I usually try to use such things as terminal-only, and ssh to another machine.
[10:57:51] <tld> do you want thoughts/inputs on the xboards btw?
[10:58:02] <OndraSterver> sure, but not now
[10:58:09] <OndraSterver> except that on this all our homeworks are compiled and tested
[10:58:21] <tld> *sigh*
[10:58:27] <tld> sounds like school-stuff.
[10:58:30] <OndraSterver> aye
[10:58:42] <tld> "Here's this broken thing, you'd never actually see in real life."
[10:58:53] <tld> ends up spending as much time working around school-quirks, as doing the homework.
[10:59:02] <OndraSterver> yep
[10:59:11] <OndraSterver> and we are using Sun's Thin Clients.
[10:59:13] <OndraSterver> Sun Ray v2
[10:59:16] <OndraSterver> with
[10:59:18] <OndraSterver> wait for it
[10:59:18] <OndraSterver> CDE!
[10:59:27] <OndraSterver> no nano, only pico and vim and netbeans
[10:59:30] <OndraSterver> pico and vim: no syntax highliting
[10:59:35] <OndraSterver> netbeans: awfuly slow, takes about 3 mins to start
[10:59:39] <OndraSterver> :(
[11:01:45] <tld> vim is nice, and has syntax-highlighting.
[11:01:49] <OndraSterver> not this one
[11:01:53] <tld> wtf!?
[11:01:55] <tld> *sigh*
[11:01:58] <OndraSterver> ;)
[11:02:07] <OndraSterver> I just resume my laptop
[11:02:11] <OndraSterver> and start debian in vmware on it
[11:02:24] <OndraSterver> poor lappy... 2GB RAM, no swap and yet it runs Opera + VS2010 + virtual debian at once just fine :P
[11:02:37] <tld> on a surprisingly related note, my kids english teachers thinks the english word for grapes is "grapefruit"… I'm willing to argue that the latter is quite a different thing from a grape. ;)
[11:02:38] <OndraSterver> no X in the virt debian
[11:02:45] <OndraSterver> hehe
[11:02:47] <OndraSterver> yep
[11:02:59] <tld> 2GB is… oh, well.
[11:03:10] <tld> sell more xboards, buy better laptop. :-P
[11:03:43] <OndraSterver> :D
[11:03:44] <OndraSterver> but
[11:03:47] <OndraSterver> it is tablet pc actually
[11:03:51] <OndraSterver> and none like those are made nowadays
[11:04:01] <OndraSterver> the only thing that comes close is surface pro :P
[11:04:07] <OndraSterver> I have got 1400x1050 on 12.1"
[11:05:50] <tld> cute!
[11:05:55] <tld> sounds about like what I'd like
[11:06:38] <OndraSterver> hehe
[11:06:38] <megal0maniac_afk> 1400x1050??
[11:06:40] <OndraSterver> ye
[11:06:44] <megal0maniac> Nice
[11:06:50] <megal0maniac> 99999ppi
[11:06:56] <OndraSterver> it was regular stuff back in the day to have high resolutions on small displays
[11:07:04] <OndraSterver> then cheap 15.6" with 1366x768 came...
[11:07:13] <OndraSterver> and nobody ever looked back
[11:07:14] <OndraSterver> except me!
[11:07:24] <OndraSterver> I got that beast in "not working state"
[11:07:31] <OndraSterver> ... the cursor was blinking instead booting the OS LOL
[11:07:36] <OndraSterver> I paid like 100€ for it
[11:07:41] <OndraSterver> it had 1.5GB RAM or so
[11:07:46] <OndraSterver> 60GB HDD?
[11:07:57] <OndraSterver> so I upgraded to 2GB RAM and 64GB SSD :P
[11:09:20] <megal0maniac> Ah. SSD is friend
[11:09:23] <OndraSterver> yep
[11:09:30] <megal0maniac> THAT'S why it's happy with life
[11:09:36] <OndraSterver> :D
[11:09:48] <OndraSterver> I just have got two scratches on the digitizer and I can feel them when going around with the pen
[11:09:56] <OndraSterver> (it isn't any capacitive crap or resistive crap)
[11:10:02] <OndraSterver> it is only wacom induction :P
[11:10:17] <megal0maniac> Nice
[11:25:12] <megal0maniac> Come to think of it, I've got a Dell D600 somewhere with 1400x1050 @ 14.1"
[11:25:25] <OndraSterver> I had that on toshiba tecra m4
[11:25:27] <OndraSterver> but it had dead GPU
[11:25:34] <OndraSterver> so I sent it back to where I bought it from :(
[11:25:35] <megal0maniac> That doesn't really help...
[11:25:47] <OndraSterver> but on 14" it is nothing special :)
[11:26:12] <megal0maniac> Well, it's better than the current standard of 1366x768
[11:26:17] <megal0maniac> On 15.6"
[11:26:19] <OndraSterver> I like the surface pro - wacom + capacitive touch, cool keyboard design ("screen cover"), 10.1" fullHD
[11:26:21] <OndraSterver> hehe
[11:26:49] <megal0maniac> Retina display looks better because of the drop in res, though. Most people didn't notice that it dropped.
[11:27:26] <megal0maniac> I ordered the wrong bloody LVDS cable for that laptop :(
[11:27:48] <megal0maniac> Arrived from the US, installed it, and the backlight worked but no picture
[11:53:58] <tld> anyone - off the top of your head - recall if attiny13a is one of the chips I can program more or less like it was an atmega328p, or if it's one of the tinies requiring special programming of sorts?
[11:58:57] * theBear looks better in low res :)
[11:59:40] <theBear> tld, fairly sure tiny13a is a tiny one with not enough ram etc for 'normal' programming, but erm, the ones i can't find on my desk, are 'normal' just 8 pin
[12:00:00] <theBear> ram/stack/whatever
[12:00:01] <tld> bad phrasing on my part.
[12:00:11] <tld> I don't worry about flash and ram size, only if I have a programmer for it
[12:00:15] <theBear> ALL of them do isp afaik
[12:00:58] <tld> Yeah, I think all of them do ISP, I just vaguely remember reading something about some of the tiny's using a different protocol or interface.
[12:01:02] <tld> I might be wrong though.
[12:01:04] <theBear> this guy would know, he's named after the first board i ever saw, got me addicted literally overnight
[12:01:05] <megal0maniac> No
[12:01:20] <megal0maniac> There are some which only support TPI
[12:01:28] <megal0maniac> "Tiny Programming Interface"
[12:01:30] <tld> megal0maniac: do you recall if attiny13a is one of them?
[12:01:40] <tld> or if I can do "normal" AVR isP?
[12:01:46] <theBear> i really gotta catch up one day
[12:01:58] <theBear> tiny's didn't exist the last time i really thought about anything
[12:02:20] <megal0maniac> ISP
[12:02:26] <abcminiuser> TPI is for the ATTINY4, 5 9 and 10
[12:02:34] <tld> Right now, I'm not looking for "cheap arduino", just looking for a chip that can count and shift-out what it counted, using as little power as possible, and preferably carrying an analog comparator… attiny13a seems to fit the bill perfectly (pun intended)
[12:02:37] <abcminiuser> Rest are ISP
[12:02:39] <tld> megal0maniac and abcminiuser, thanks both. :)
[12:02:42] <megal0maniac> Oh, hello :)
[12:02:43] <abcminiuser> (Plus other interfaces)
[12:02:55] <theBear> struck me tonight, i'm not just outta practice at a lot of things, i REALLY am a ghost of the person i used to be... i sometimes wonder if i'll ever fit back into society and properly support myself
[12:03:09] <theBear> doesn't help that 'repairs' is a dying industry
[12:03:10] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: TPI is stripped down PDI, minus debug, right?
[12:03:27] <theBear> life can be cruel... always remember that and avoid it
[12:03:37] <theBear> not life, just the cruel
[12:03:52] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, pretty much, it's slightly different but the basis is the same
[12:03:57] <theBear> and don't ever have a near death experience, i feel that's what ruined everything
[12:05:34] <tld> theBear: I can relate.
[12:05:39] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: One more thing (until I remember the others), do you know if there's anything special that needs to happen to get LUFA AVRISP MKII working on osx?
[12:05:52] <megal0maniac> 10.8 in particular. Richard_Cavell was having issues with it
[12:05:53] <tld> on the upside, it's probably easier to be rusty, than starting from scratch (which I am with mcus)
[12:06:17] <theBear> rusty is fine, having motivation to live or even excel, pfft, that's different
[12:06:30] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/2vhgDbpw
[12:06:42] <tld> theBear: I can relate… but that's a long story.
[12:06:49] <theBear> heh, i can imagine
[12:07:08] * tld trails of a bit, to read attiny13a datasheet, while kid reads homework.
[12:07:11] <megal0maniac> Also, it's the version which plays nicely with AS
[12:07:14] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, hrm, latest firmware?
[12:07:18] <abcminiuser> With AVRDude?
[12:07:40] <megal0maniac> He got it from Tom in the last day or two
[12:07:47] <megal0maniac> So I'd imagine it's up to date...
[12:08:30] <megal0maniac> And yeah, avrdude. Console output is in the pastebin link
[12:08:31] <theBear> i stopped/eased my drinking for the first time in over 3 and a half years the last 5 days or so... really shows how far gone i am.... just like the medical literature, hallucinations, twitching, i honestly think if i hadn't had a few drinks thisevening i'd be in er or seizuring dead on my floor right now
[12:08:57] <theBear> heh, but this channel isn't for that talk :) have fun y'all, don't worry, i'll be back tomorrow
[12:09:14] <megal0maniac> theBear: Be good ;)
[12:09:52] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, might need to use the AVRDude compatibility firmware I build for Windows
[12:09:54] <theBear> heh, i'm being gooder this week than i have 'forever' ... i don't really have a reason, but honestly, being not good is getting repetitive :)
[12:09:56] <theBear> gnight ;)
[12:11:37] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Oh, look. You've already replied on avrfreaks. I was looking for more verbose console output :)
[12:11:42] <megal0maniac> Don't worry then
[12:11:55] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, just found the thread a few mins ago :P
[12:13:31] <megal0maniac> What is this magical firmware you speak of? Is it no longer necessary to reflash? :/
[12:14:24] <abcminiuser> Latest version has a RESET_TOGGLES_LIBUSB_COMPAT
[12:14:47] <abcminiuser> Which means pulsing the /RESET line switches compatibility modes
[12:14:58] <abcminiuser> (Power on retains the last compatibility mode)
[12:15:08] <abcminiuser> The downside is that Tom's latest programmers have no buttons on them
[12:15:13] <OndraSterver> oo abc
[12:15:15] <OndraSterver> hello
[12:16:01] <megal0maniac> That's very useful though. I likey. And it'll work on Rikus' board
[12:16:29] <abcminiuser> Ja
[12:16:32] <abcminiuser> Hey OndraSterver
[12:20:55] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: I'm assuming it's in 120730, and that it's enabled by default?
[12:21:27] <abcminiuser> Hrm, I can't remember when I added it...
[12:21:37] <abcminiuser> Check Config/AppConfig.h
[12:27:29] <megal0maniac> Well it's the latest release version on your site, and the date rings a bell. PC is far away so I can't check
[12:27:52] <megal0maniac> I only heard bad things about the libusb filter driver, so this is good
[12:31:04] <abcminiuser> That's the latest release, but I may have added it after that
[12:31:13] <abcminiuser> In which case, www.lufa-lib.org/latest-archive
[12:34:35] <megal0maniac> Cool, will check it out. Thanks
[12:39:41] <megal0maniac> fwiw, it is included in latest release. Commented out, though, so I'll need to recompile
[12:58:14] <megal0maniac> Does anyone know if there's a more up-to-date (than dfu-programmer) FLIP alternative?
[12:58:46] <OndraSterver> abcminiuser, so how is work at Atmel? :)
[12:59:04] <OndraSterver> FYI, I got as far as device enumeration on xmega in custom USB stack :P
[12:59:10] <OndraSterver> and USB is real PITA
[13:03:11] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, what's this new RESET_TOGGLES_LIBUSB_COMPAT switch about?
[13:03:36] <megal0maniac> Reset toggles libusb compatibility :)
[13:04:32] <megal0maniac> Implemented as of 120730
[13:09:29] <Tom_itx> yeah i think i remember some talk of that
[13:10:07] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Is the default mode stored in eeprom?
[13:11:02] <Tom_itx> he must need HWB high for that to work
[13:12:44] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, indeed it is
[13:13:02] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, ja, unless we start making crazy schemes
[13:13:17] <abcminiuser> Perhaps there could be a SW utility to switch it, that could work
[13:14:42] <megal0maniac> You'd still need a button of some sort, be it for bootloader mode or the actual switching. I don't see how it could work unless significant changes are made to the firmware itself...
[13:15:01] <megal0maniac> From bootloader, you can write to eeprom. But you need to get into bootloader
[13:16:29] <megal0maniac> Maybe some unused STK500 command, called from custom PC app?
[13:19:16] <megal0maniac> (This comes from me vaguely remembering that AVRISP MKII still uses STK500 command set)
[14:17:38] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx, confirm, deny?
[14:18:19] <Tom_itx> it's becoming too confusing
[14:19:01] <Tom_itx> i originally had 2 buttons and changed it to one to simplify programming
[14:21:37] <OndraSterver> lovely, I can not use bloody DELETE key in PICO
[14:21:40] <OndraSterver> on the bloody SUN crap
[14:22:09] <specing> lol
[14:22:15] <specing> Enjoying yourself @uni?
[14:24:55] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Well it would just be some kind of mode switching app. Some tweaks in LUFA and corresponding app with two buttons in a dialog
[14:25:37] <Tom_itx> it's not something i plan to change
[14:26:10] <megal0maniac> Well it's the only way to do it with software only, just a suggestion
[14:26:26] <Tom_itx> not that many people need to switch modes
[14:26:26] <megal0maniac> Adding a reset button is first prize, but I know that isn't going to happen
[14:26:30] <megal0maniac> Exactly
[14:26:37] <Tom_itx> they're either gonna use windows or linux
[14:26:48] <Tom_itx> and if they use windows they're generally gonna use studio
[14:26:53] <megal0maniac> At the moment, you check first, right?
[14:27:01] <megal0maniac> And load the relevant firmware?
[14:27:01] <Tom_itx> the loaded version will work on windows, linux or osx
[14:27:24] <Tom_itx> no need to check
[14:27:28] <Tom_itx> it works
[14:27:40] <megal0maniac> EXCEPT for avrdude in windows
[14:27:44] <Tom_itx> he originally thought there would be a speed difference but there is not
[14:27:46] <megal0maniac> And possibly osx 10.8 as well...
[14:28:10] <Tom_itx> but like i said, few will use that combination and it's hardly worth my effort to support those few
[14:28:26] <Tom_itx> i dunno about osx
[14:28:36] <megal0maniac> I'd help out if I wasn't so shit at coding :P
[14:28:54] <Tom_itx> i know Steffanx got it working in osx
[14:29:05] <Tom_itx> i don't know about newer versions
[14:29:43] <Steffanx> Yes, but it was slow during the connection phase iirc
[14:29:57] <Tom_itx> did you ever figure out why?
[14:30:01] <Steffanx> avrdude had a hard time to connect to it in a reasonably time
[14:30:01] <Steffanx> No
[14:30:53] <Tom_itx> that's the problem with proprietary software
[14:30:59] <Tom_itx> you have no real control of it
[14:31:07] <Steffanx> avrdude isn't propritary :P
[14:31:11] <Steffanx> +e
[14:31:13] <Tom_itx> osx is
[14:31:27] <megal0maniac> You'd think the unix base would make things easier :/
[14:31:33] <Steffanx> I blame libusb :P
[14:31:40] <Steffanx> Never used it on osx 10.8, so i have no idea how well it runs on that version
[14:31:41] <Tom_itx> i won't deny that
[14:31:48] <megal0maniac> Everyone does, and usually they're right :P
[14:32:00] <megal0maniac> I'd try at work, but everything is still 10.6...
[14:32:20] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac, do you have one of mine?
[14:32:21] <Steffanx> Maybe i can find some time to try for you tomorrow Tom_itx
[14:32:24] <Tom_itx> i can't keep track
[14:32:31] <Tom_itx> ok
[14:32:33] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: No, but same firmware on Rikus' board
[14:33:05] <Tom_itx> i personally think dean is trying to cater to too many variations
[14:33:23] <Steffanx> I actually shouldn't be here.. I have two deadlines and only 2 and a half ours remaining :)
[14:33:50] <Tom_itx> yeah but we're more fun
[15:24:36] <megal0maniac> What's the point of being cloaked if your hostname is shown anyway?
[15:25:11] <specing> its not if you know how to configure your client properly
[15:25:35] <megal0maniac> specing: And how would one do that?
[15:25:52] <megal0maniac> SSL?
[15:26:43] <specing> for freenode?
[15:26:47] <specing> server password.
[15:27:06] * megal0maniac is still confused
[15:35:00] <specing> Yup, I use the nickserv method
[15:35:04] <specing> heh
[15:38:26] <megal0maniac> specing: Teach me your ways :)
[15:39:11] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I just compiled RavrProgRtk on XP, it connects to U2S :)
[15:39:21] <RikusW> though the GUI is still incomplete...
[15:39:22] <megal0maniac> Heh. Success :)
[15:39:31] <RikusW> yeah :)
[15:40:03] * RikusW is on 4Mbit again :)
[15:40:14] <megal0maniac> Nice. In Bloem
[15:40:20] <RikusW> not sure how long
[15:40:26] <megal0maniac> (In Bloom is a Nirvana album)
[15:40:40] <RikusW> probably a few days
[15:40:53] <asteve> 4Mbit?
[15:41:00] <RikusW> ADSL
[15:41:04] <megal0maniac> asteve: As opposed to GPRS
[15:41:24] <specing> should get 50/50
[15:41:30] <specing> but Im lazy
[15:41:42] * megal0maniac should get 50/50
[15:41:43] <asteve> I just urpgraded to the fioses 75/35
[15:41:45] <asteve> it's awesome
[15:41:48] <megal0maniac> But impossibru!
[15:41:51] <RikusW> megal0maniac: to draw the arrow on a combobox I simply used V
[15:41:56] * RikusW is being lazy :-P
[15:42:09] <specing> asteve: I'd rather have more upload than download
[15:42:23] <asteve> you don't like watching netflix and itunes rentals?
[15:42:23] <RikusW> specing: why ?
[15:42:28] <asteve> and playing the games
[15:42:33] <asteve> simultaneously
[15:42:51] <asteve> so 75/35 is really misleading, you can't get 75 AND 35 simultaneously
[15:42:55] <asteve> which is sucks
[15:43:11] <RikusW> so actually 40/35 ?
[15:43:15] <RikusW> 40 + 35...
[15:43:35] <specing> RikusW: servers
[15:43:45] <RikusW> ah ofcourse
[15:43:47] <asteve> no, you'll get some mixture between upload and download, not necessarily 40 and 35
[15:44:23] <specing> My current line is think-provisioned
[15:44:31] <RikusW> asteve: more accurately 40 to 70 and 35 to 0
[15:44:38] <RikusW> *75
[15:45:01] <specing> thick*
[15:45:58] <asteve> you'd think it was a full duplex and ish
[15:50:18] <specing> it is
[15:50:19] <specing> for me
[15:50:39] <specing> Im 10m away from my ISP's hub
[15:51:23] <RikusW> hows that possible ?!
[15:51:38] <megal0maniac> He's homeless :D
[15:51:48] <megal0maniac> Tapped into the fibre on the sidewalk
[15:51:50] <RikusW> his father's hub ?
[15:52:18] <megal0maniac> RikusW: 0.9s ping today. Not bad :)
[15:52:38] <RikusW> not at all
[15:52:54] <RikusW> much better than 6s....
[15:53:05] <asteve> 900ms ping is good?
[15:53:17] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Did you PM me before I sent that?
[15:53:20] <specing> 8ms ping to the main router
[15:53:26] <asteve> 9ms ping is reasonable but not fantastic .9ms ping would be fantastic
[15:53:27] <RikusW> asteve: considering its 6s on GPRS
[15:53:50] <RikusW> megal0maniac: just after your ping..
[15:53:56] <specing> 0.5 ms ping to _my_ border router
[15:55:00] <RikusW> IRC on a 4Mbit line, what awaste :-P
[15:55:13] <megal0maniac> 0.248ms to my router
[15:55:27] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Simultaneous downloading :D
[15:55:35] <asteve> that's pretty good, I can't get less than .8-1ms to my router wired and wireless is shit
[15:55:38] <asteve> probably 1-40ms
[15:55:57] <RikusW> how many IRC channels would be required to saturate a 4Mbit line ? ! :-P
[15:56:21] <asteve> fios provides you with a router and it has the worst possible wifi chipset/antenna
[15:56:49] <asteve> if you don't use their router you lose some functionality with the guides on the set top boxes
[15:56:53] <creep> RikusW<< like 10000 users
[15:58:49] <RikusW> creep: more like 10000 chans * 10000 users....
[15:59:30] <RikusW> well that might be a DOS instead...
[15:59:50] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I exceeded 30 hops doing a traceroute to you :/
[16:00:03] <RikusW> that many ? !
[16:00:32] <megal0maniac> Well it eventually gives me * * *
[16:00:37] * RikusW have dexter 703 :)
[16:01:39] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/EJnQ1vEL
[16:02:42] <RikusW> whats the * * * for ?...
[16:03:05] <megal0maniac> No clue
[16:04:49] <RikusW> megal0maniac: only 9 hops
[16:06:51] <RikusW> megal0maniac:
http://pastebin.com/Z6D01RLf
[16:07:51] <megal0maniac> Odd. Changed max hops to 100 and it just keeps giving * * * until 100
[16:10:09] <RikusW> ignore the * * *
[16:10:25] <RikusW> it probably cant get in :-P
[16:10:57] <RikusW> afk dexter ;)
[16:11:04] <megal0maniac> Lol enjoy
[16:11:09] <megal0maniac> 'Night all
[16:11:13] <RikusW> thanks
[16:11:16] <RikusW> gn
[16:29:08] <Tom_itx> what's a good router nowdays?
[16:29:38] <Tom_itx> i don't care about wifi, i have an antenna
[16:29:59] <tld> depends on what you'd like.
[16:30:20] <tld> anything labeled Cisco and costing over $2k should be decent for home-use, if you mod it for the fan noise.
[16:30:35] <tld> on a more serious note… what do you need?
[16:31:27] <specing> tld: lol
[16:31:41] <specing> Tom_itx: ALIX!
[16:31:47] <tld> I have two.
[16:31:51] <tld> ALIXes that is.
[16:32:06] <tld> they've taken a surprising amount of abuse, and have yet to fail me.
[16:32:19] <Tom_itx> link
[16:32:24] <tld> not the fastest things, but should do fine as a router, up to 10-20mbps
[16:32:30] <tld> pcengines.ch
[16:32:58] <tld> I usually make a custom FreeBSD-on-a-CF for them.
[16:33:13] <tld> (though you can use linux, if you're into that kind of thing)
[16:33:54] <tld> http://pcengines.ch/alix2d3.htm <-- the one I have
[16:34:07] <tld> another similar provider -->
http://soekris.com/
[16:35:46] <tld> wtf!? have soekris gone nuts? $149 for an ElanSC 133Mhz?
[16:37:30] <tld> http://soekris.com/products/net6501-50-board.html <-- I think I want that.
[16:37:59] <specing> tld: yep, soekris are nuts
[16:38:26] <specing> tld: you get a dual-gigabit ethernet + dual 3.0 sata ARM kirkwood 1.2GHz for 150$
[16:38:32] <specing> DEVKIT!
[16:38:37] <tld> cute
[16:38:39] <tld> but pricey
[16:39:13] <tld> I'm tempted to make an avr-based router.
[16:39:31] <specing> dialup server on an AVR? :D
[16:40:02] <specing> then you can send the board to RikusW's ISP so they can upgrade his connection
[16:40:13] <Tom_itx> :)
[16:40:56] <OndraSterver> :D
[16:40:56] <tld> no dialup
[16:40:59] <tld> just wireless
[16:41:00] <Kevin`> tld: just get some consumer device with reasonable specs that's supported by openwrt. way cheaper
[16:41:04] <OndraSterver> tld, wifi?
[16:41:11] <tld> ZigBee
[16:41:15] <OndraSterver> Kevin`, yeah :)
[16:41:23] <OndraSterver> cheap and powerful
[16:41:28] <tld> Kevin`: Tom_itx that asked about router advice, not me
[16:41:32] <Tom_itx> does openwrt help quite a bit?
[16:41:36] <OndraSterver> by a lot
[16:41:47] <specing> yeah it does
[16:41:56] <specing> unless you are an iptables guru (which I am)
[16:42:02] <tld> OpenWRT is linux, which I try to avoid when I can.
[16:42:07] <OndraSterver> iptables
[16:42:08] <Kevin`> Tom_itx: yes, if you have a use for more features than the average home user who doesn't understand networking
[16:42:10] <specing> :)
[16:42:10] <OndraSterver> what about kernel routing?
[16:42:21] <tld> OndraSterver: where else would you route?
[16:42:26] <OndraSterver> in software!
[16:42:31] <specing> routes are managed by routing daemons
[16:42:32] <OndraSterver> in user space
[16:42:35] <tld> OndraSterver: the kernel is hardware?
[16:42:37] <tld> news to me.
[16:42:42] <OndraSterver> the kernel runs in kernel mode
[16:42:51] <tld> routing daemons don't do routing.
[16:43:03] <OndraSterver> tld, I heard that windows server does not like routing much
[16:43:05] <specing> I never said they do
[16:43:17] <OndraSterver> otherwise I would route everything through my server
[16:43:29] <OndraSterver> (with upgrading it of course, it is poor old CPU)
[16:43:38] <OndraSterver> with linux without domain, torrents, ... it could probably run faster
[16:43:48] <OndraSterver> but that is just router then!
[16:43:50] <OndraSterver> not server :P
[16:44:05] <tld> specing: I know, just wasn't sure if it was clear to non-TCP/IP-enabled people. (I didn't mean to correct you, just comment on what you said)
[16:44:05] <Kevin`> why couldn't you do torrents?
[16:44:08] <OndraSterver> also, GUI > CLI
[16:44:13] <OndraSterver> you could do torrents...
[16:44:20] <OndraSterver> but active directory... :P
[16:44:32] <Kevin`> poor OndraSterver stuck in the past, even windows is abandoning their gui now ;p
[16:44:45] <OndraSterver> they have got new GUI
[16:44:49] <OndraSterver> originally called Metro
[16:44:59] <OndraSterver> before some germans said "ZAT IZ OUR NAME!"
[17:49:55] <Kulitorum> I installed FLip 3.4.7, but it seems I need to update my Jungo driver. But there's no Jungo section in my Device manager. Any ideas?
[17:50:17] <Kulitorum> Windows XP x64, btw
[17:54:26] <specing> Kulitorum: use Linux.
[17:54:48] <Kulitorum> Yeah, I couldent get my hostsoftware to connect to the device in linux either
[17:54:53] <Kulitorum> ...tried that first...
[17:55:25] <Kulitorum> Does Flip exist for linux ? (My first ever experience with flip)
[17:55:54] <specing> probably
[17:56:02] <specing> I remember using DFU once, though
[17:57:37] <Kulitorum> It all seems quite beta
[17:59:33] <specing> well once I get my stellaris I won't care anymore so meh
[17:59:44] <Kulitorum> :P
[18:00:48] <specing> I think Im going to use MSP430 for my low-power needs
[18:00:58] <specing> s/low-power/cheapo/
[18:01:13] <specing> msp seems to be cheaper than AVR, by quite a margin
[18:01:20] <Kulitorum> I'm using mine with my 3d printer, so there's a lot of fromware to rewrite if changing platform :)
[18:05:39] <Tom_itx> Kulitorum the driver comes with the flip download
[18:05:58] <Tom_itx> you just gotta go select it from the directory
[18:06:22] <Tom_itx> it takes a different driver than the regular studio jungo driver
[18:08:39] <Tom_itx> if you need help i can walk you thru it
[20:07:46] <Kulitorum> Tom_itx, you still here?
[20:08:24] <Kulitorum> Problem is I don't have the Jungo device in the device manager, so I can't ask the system to update
[20:08:44] <Kulitorum> I suspect it's because of WinXP x64, but I'm not sure
[20:09:26] <Tom_itx> yup
[20:09:31] <Kulitorum> cool
[20:10:02] <Tom_itx> you can change the driver
[20:10:04] <Tom_itx> i think
[20:10:14] <Kulitorum> Even if the device is not in the device manager?
[20:10:30] <Tom_itx> what happens when you plug it in?
[20:10:37] <Kulitorum> It installs some driver..
[20:10:47] <Tom_itx> tell it you want to
[20:11:10] <Kulitorum> USB serial (Communication class, Abstract Control Model) COM3
[20:11:41] <Tom_itx> what happens when you start flip?
[20:11:51] <Kulitorum> I select the chip, then USB
[20:11:56] <Kulitorum> It gives error.....
[20:11:57] <Kulitorum> sec
[20:12:18] <Kulitorum> AtLibUsbDfu.dll not found
[20:12:32] <Tom_L> so you're using dfu now?
[20:12:51] <Kulitorum> I honestly don't know
[20:12:59] <Tom_L> let's go back to flip
[20:13:02] <Kulitorum> Just connected it first time a few hours ago
[20:13:41] <Tom_L> i'm using 3.4.5 but yours is close enough
[20:13:56] <Tom_L> what happens when you start flip?
[20:14:14] <Kulitorum> Starts up, most everythibng is grey
[20:14:22] <Kulitorum> So I go Device/select
[20:14:26] <Tom_L> select the chip
[20:14:42] <Kulitorum> picks AT90USB1286 as per my "manual"
[20:14:47] <Tom_L> then click on the USB icon
[20:14:48] <Kulitorum> Looks OK
[20:14:57] <Tom_L> and "open'
[20:15:01] <Tom_L> what happens?
[20:15:02] <Kulitorum> Only thing I can select is USB
[20:15:14] <Kulitorum> And I get the DLL not found error
[20:15:24] <Kulitorum> Everything is still grey
[20:15:32] <Tom_L> that's normal
[20:15:42] <Tom_L> not the dll thing but the grey
[20:15:49] <Kulitorum> k
[20:16:07] <Kulitorum> Have you tried this on a x64 machien?
[20:16:14] <Kulitorum> machine even
[20:16:26] <Tom_L> no
[20:16:39] <Tom_L> i'm looking for the dll
[20:17:12] <Kulitorum> well, when I pick the COM3 port and go update driver and point it to the driver in the atmel dir, it says something in the line of "make sure this is compatible with x64" or something like that
[20:18:44] <Tom_L> C:\Program Files\Atmel\Flip 3.4.5\usb\UpdateDriver
[20:18:47] <Tom_L> go read the html
[20:18:51] <Kulitorum> I did
[20:18:55] <Kulitorum> hours ago
[20:18:55] <Tom_L> ok
[20:18:58] <Tom_L> heh
[20:19:09] <Kulitorum> it says "pick the Jungo device catagory" and I don't have that
[20:19:39] <Tom_L> what happens when you click on the atmel_usb_dfu.inf file?
[20:19:44] <Tom_L> in the usb directory
[20:20:12] <Kulitorum> I right click, pick "install" aparrently nothing happens
[20:20:14] <Tom_L> that dll is in the bin directory btw
[20:20:20] <Kulitorum> No errors, no confirm
[20:21:20] <Kulitorum> Hmm, Ur right, the DLL is there
[20:22:15] <Kulitorum> Copied it to windows/system32, it still complaints not to find it.
[20:22:24] * Kulitorum picks out a x32 CD
[20:22:44] <Kulitorum> I guess I'll try x32 tomorrow (it's 03:10 am here)
[20:22:50] <Tom_L> oh
[20:22:53] <Tom_L> well ok
[20:23:05] <Kulitorum> Am I right, I only need it to update the firmware?
[20:23:08] <Tom_L> what happens when you try update driver in the device manager?
[20:23:13] <Tom_L> yes
[20:23:20] <Kulitorum> The device is not in the device manager
[20:23:38] <Kulitorum> I can communicate with the firmware on the board OK, just not update it
[20:23:50] <Tom_L> plug it into a different usb port if you can
[20:23:53] <Kulitorum> ...Maybe a virtual win32 :)
[20:23:55] <Tom_L> see if it shows up then
[20:23:55] <Kulitorum> sure
[20:24:12] <Tom_L> if so, select to install the driver manually
[20:24:46] <Kulitorum> Still not there.
[20:25:43] * Kulitorum installs VMvare
[20:26:14] <Tom_L> whatever you do, select the driver manually
[20:26:14] <Kulitorum> Tried it on win8?
[20:26:24] <Tom_L> best i have is xp pro
[20:26:28] <Kulitorum> ok
[20:26:36] <Kulitorum> I'll try xp x32
[20:26:40] <Kulitorum> Thanks for trying ;)
[20:26:51] <Kulitorum> virtual xp x32 that is
[20:26:51] <Tom_L> i've got 7 or something on a lappy but not installed
[20:26:54] <Kulitorum> worth a shot
[20:27:02] <Tom_L> do you have a linux box?
[20:27:06] <Tom_L> dfu would work
[20:27:06] <Kulitorum> sure
[20:27:16] <Tom_L> i've not used it but it should work
[20:27:24] <Kulitorum> Flip linux?
[20:27:32] <Tom_L> DFU programmer
[20:27:44] * Kulitorum don't know the difference :)
[20:28:16] <Kulitorum> DFU is liek DFU on iPhone? :)
[20:28:24] <Tom_L> http://dfu-programmer.sourceforge.net/
[20:28:34] <Kulitorum> like a hardware level access?
[20:28:52] <Tom_L> does the same thing as FLIP
[20:28:59] <Tom_L> FLIP is atmel's toy
[20:29:00] <Kulitorum> Ah, ok
[20:29:07] <Kulitorum> bad bad toy
[20:29:14] <Tom_L> it works
[20:29:19] <Kulitorum> sometimes
[20:29:21] <Tom_L> i've had driver issues before though
[20:29:32] <Tom_L> it's driver and jungo get mixed up sometimes
[20:29:38] <Kulitorum> Researching this, I have come across a lot of complaints about bluescreens and stuff
[20:30:35] <Kulitorum> So the DFU uploads the bootloader?
[20:30:43] <Tom_L> no
[20:30:44] <Kulitorum> So how do you upload software?
[20:30:46] <Kulitorum> oh
[20:30:49] <Tom_L> the bootloader should be resident already
[20:31:04] <Kulitorum> so DFU is used to upload software
[20:31:11] <Tom_L> you hold the HWB pin low and pulse reset to enter program mode
[20:31:23] <Kulitorum> Liek what arduino software does for ...arduinos.. ?
[20:31:25] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_User_manual_index.php
[20:31:32] <Tom_L> follow the firmware directions there
[20:31:35] <Tom_L> for FLIP
[20:31:38] <Kulitorum> ok
[20:32:36] <Kulitorum> Mine is a
http://reprap.me/epages/reprap_nu_4149051.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/reprap_nu_4149051/Products/PrintrBoard
[20:33:59] <Kulitorum> Anyway, thanks for trying, I'll give it a x32 go tomorrow. Night :)
[20:35:28] <Tom_L> k
[20:36:28] <Tom_L> do they say to use FLIP to update it?
[22:24:01] <skorket> I'm thinking of doing capacitive sensing in conjunction with V-USB. Could I potentially run into some timing issues with V-USB stomping on my timing? Does anyone have suggestions on how to mitigate against this?
[22:45:48] <Richard_Cavell> How's everyone doing?
[22:45:52] <Xark> skorket: I believe VUSB does cause interrupts which can mess up tight timing. If you don't service the USB interrupts, the connection is closed. You may be able to mask the interrupts for a small period of time (delaying them), or maybe it would be possible to detect if an interrupt occurred and re-do or discard the affected result.
[22:46:15] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Good, thanks.
[22:46:32] <skorket> Xark, I would be happy with the latter
[22:46:32] <Richard_Cavell> I'm about to complete my latest AVR project
[22:46:37] <skorket> any suggestions on how to do that?
[22:46:41] <Richard_Cavell> (programming over a DAPA cable)
[22:47:25] <Xark> skorket: Well, one way would be to modify VUSB to e.g., increment a variable each interrupt (then if you see it has changed since starting a sense, you know it was distrubed).
[22:48:03] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Did you get your LibUSB issues worked out, and now are on to DAPA cable again?
[22:48:15] <Richard_Cavell> yes, got the libusb worked out
[22:48:18] <Richard_Cavell> 2 projects remain
[22:48:37] <Richard_Cavell> I have Tom's programmer. It works perfectly from Atmel Studio on Windows, and from Ubuntu on the same machine, and from Ubuntu on my Mac
[22:48:38] <skorket> Xark, hmm, not too into modifying V-USB, but I guess it's a possibility. Thanks
[22:48:46] <Richard_Cavell> It doesn't work from OS X on the Mac
[22:48:50] <Richard_Cavell> Tom doesn't know why
[22:49:00] <Richard_Cavell> It also doesn't work from avrdude on Windows but that's a known issue
[22:49:17] <Richard_Cavell> Second project is dapa cable, I'm taking it to a hackerspace tonight to use someone's parallel port
[22:49:22] <Xark> skorket: There is a good chance it already has a variable that you can just read/
[22:49:38] <skorket> cool, I'll look into it
[22:50:30] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Ahh, cool. Giving up on that parallel port PCI card (probably a good call). :)
[22:51:08] <Richard_Cavell> Xark: Yeah, well Windows 7 won't run give_io.bat which is essential for avrdude to work, and Ubuntu doesn't have drivers for the parallel port PCI card
[22:51:25] <Richard_Cavell> I might be able to get it to work if I ran an older version of Windows on my machine but it's not worth it
[22:51:46] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Yep. Parallel port ship has largely sailed away. :)
[22:51:51] <Richard_Cavell> It's a damn shame
[22:52:10] <Richard_Cavell> It's also a shame that you can't just download and use older versions of Windows like you can with Linux
[22:52:25] <Richard_Cavell> I mean, you can't even buy them
[22:53:38] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Tis true.
[22:54:41] * Xark has several (obsolete) peripherals for parallel port (gathering dust)...
[23:05:20] <skorket> USB_RX_USER_HOOK mayhaps?
[23:17:33] <Xark> skorket: Sounds promising (I am not familiar with VUSB internals).
[23:18:16] <Xark> skorket: However, I worry it would only be for RX data (not every interrupt). I would look at ISR and see if they increment a "packet count" or something.
[23:18:28] <skorket> hmm, could point
[23:24:01] <skorket> *good