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[00:03:06] <Sur3> hm the two burned IGBTs are pretty good conductors now.. xD
[00:11:47] <Sur3> always read about electrostatic discharges, did anyone ever burn some device by that, i thik they are overstated..?!
[00:19:06] <creep> i'd like to see you grab onto an electric fence line ;)
[00:19:15] <creep> or bite on it
[00:19:22] <CapnKernel> I used to do that on the farm, wearing rubber boots
[00:19:31] <CapnKernel> I used to test fences doing that
[00:19:41] <creep> try without boots :(
[00:19:43] <CapnKernel> If you grab on with both hands, you can barely feel it
[00:20:13] <CapnKernel> No thanks. Our fencer was designed for a high rainfall area. Grass along the fence was all brown. It would kill livestock (heart attack) in 30 seconds.
[00:20:28] <Sur3> huh öhm i meant normal discharge from the body to kill a transistor or so and not artificial created discharges by electric fences! xD
[00:20:35] <CapnKernel> Firmly with one hand, it would give you a slight pull.
[00:20:43] <CapnKernel> Three fingers, your fingers should twitch a bit.
[00:20:51] <CapnKernel> One finger and no twitch, time to check the fence for problems.
[00:20:57] <CapnKernel> I discovered this all by accident. Very useful!
[00:21:32] <CapnKernel> I once had a hit to the head, when well grounded. Knocked me out for half an hour, and I had headaches for two weeks.
[00:21:48] <CapnKernel> Re ESD
[00:21:52] <CapnKernel> I've seen it happen once.
[00:22:00] <CapnKernel> Back in 2000 I was working for HP.
[00:22:12] <CapnKernel> We had 4Mb Intel strataflash, TSSOP package
[00:22:28] <CapnKernel> We had special flash sockets
[00:22:46] <CapnKernel> We'd program the flashes in the programmer, then move them to the sockets of our prototypes
[00:22:56] <CapnKernel> We could never get more than about 4-5 programs out of each chip
[00:23:07] <CapnKernel> Which we had to put down to ESD
[00:23:11] <Sur3> ok weired
[00:23:35] <CapnKernel> Very very hard to kill a transistor, as they're not high impedance
[00:23:45] <CapnKernel> Relatively easy to kill CMOS and FETs
[00:24:03] <creep> very simple to kill a transistor
[00:24:34] <Sur3> ah okay because for the IGBT is also stated to connect all pins together before activating it to prevent ESD
[00:24:56] <creep> IG-fets even simpler
[00:25:41] <CapnKernel> That's because an IGBT has the front end of a FET. IG is Insulated Gate == high impedance
[00:26:03] <Sur3> ah ok
[00:27:04] <Sur3> but i always wonder that ESD has such hight voltages, strange they are :D
[00:27:23] <creep> voltage is a potential difference
[00:27:29] <creep> between 2 points
[00:28:25] <creep> U=Q/C
[00:29:04] <creep> I=Q/T
[00:29:07] <Sur3> ah ok so when there was 230V on the igbt before it could rest there and when i touh i it could burn
[00:29:40] <Sur3> I=Q/t
[00:29:48] <creep> ESD = >1kV spike from a capacitive source with high peak currents
[00:30:08] <Richard_Cavell> Guys, I'm trying to teach myself electronics. Here's a list of all the electronics stuff I've studied so far. What's next on the list for me?
[00:30:29] <Sur3> yep thats what i mean 1kV so easy produceable, we should use ESD as energy source :D
[00:31:36] <Sur3> i should invent an ESD driven watch xD
[00:33:30] <Sur3> btw when i program an ATmega as Clock with internal frequency, how many seconds per day would it differ probably more than 1?
[00:34:13] <Sur3> ok forget the question was stuppid xD
[00:35:25] <creep> it is not the voltage thath kills
[00:35:43] <creep> the energy level
[00:36:25] <Sur3> hm with two IGBTs the LED is bright and with one it is not very bright, could this be the tolerance of the IGBTs?
[00:39:04] <creep> LEDs are current controlled devices that has a threshold voltage
[00:39:53] <Casper> Sur3: do you have a proper current limiting device for your leds?
[00:40:00] <Casper> one per string
[00:40:34] <creep> Casper<< he has IGBT in series with the led
[00:40:53] <creep> that will limit the SC current to 80A ;)
[00:40:54] <Casper> creep: so?
[00:40:58] <Sur3> the led is just for testing, so i didnt care for current-limiting
[00:43:03] <Sur3> @creep: it will limit it to 40A because thats the limit of the IGBT ^^
[00:43:31] <creep> Sur3<< i think we are not talking about the same thing
[00:43:56] <Sur3> anyway by 5V it could never each high currents with igbt and led in row
[00:44:24] <creep> sure, your 7805 or whatever will probably limit the current below 3A
[00:45:15] <Sur3> usb powered by polulu programmer, so even less i think ^^
[00:46:46] <Sur3> usb 2.0 has 500mA
[00:47:25] <creep> and a capacitor can provide 200A peak currents
[00:50:16] <Sur3> well thats a bit to theoretical for just a testing led, i dont care if the led burns, just want it to show me the switching of the igbt, i dont think that there will be a capacitor big enaugh to burn the igbt in this circuit
[00:51:40] <creep> would be hard to kill IGBT at 5V VCE, but you can always overheat parts
[00:53:37] <Sur3> well the igbt feels still pretty cool
[00:54:15] <creep> ofcourse 100W IGBTs can take a led
[00:54:27] <Sur3> i thinking if i should give the 230Vdc an other try
[00:55:24] <Sur3> i burned a smd transistor last year that looked awesome, pretty nice glow ^^
[00:56:17] <Sur3> didnt know it was a led-transistor before xD
[00:56:45] <Xark> Sur3: That would be a LET. :)
[00:57:09] <Sur3> :D
[00:57:37] <creep> once i tested a smoke emitting IC from cd drive, it emitted nice magenta smoke, and white
[00:57:57] <creep> tried it with random pins 5V/12V
[00:57:59] <Sur3> lol how did it smell?
[00:58:06] <creep> i didn't try to smell it ;>>
[00:58:11] <Sur3> ^^
[00:58:11] <creep> its poisonous
[00:58:35] <Sur3> i still hace some old cd-drives proably i should give that a try xD
[00:59:03] <creep> they work with smoke, after they let out the magic smoke they stop working
[00:59:35] <Sur3> smelled muradic acid the days, really smells a bit like salt
[01:00:54] <Sur3> lol LETs do really exist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_light-emitting_transistor
[01:03:21] <Xark> Sur3: Wow, bet you didn't know how on the cutting edge you are. :)
[01:05:10] <Sur3> well i call it bleeding edge :D
[01:05:33] <Xark> Hehe, now you just need to pack 1920x1080 of them on a 15" rectangle. :D
[01:06:13] <Sur3> omg, was difficould enaugh to resolder this one o.O
[01:07:13] <Sur3> i would need them bga if really making 1024x768 or so
[01:09:48] <Sur3> but i wonder if i could get these two already burned IGBTs also glowing... :D
[01:10:52] <Sur3> probably i need a powerplant for this xD
[01:11:53] <Sur3> u think my flybaktransformer would work therefore?
[01:14:15] <Sur3> "Although the LET produces light in essentially the same way that light emitting diodes (LEDs) operate, the transistor can modulate light at much higher speeds."
[01:14:28] <Sur3> source:
http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/667-1.html
[01:28:39] <Sur3> well for today i'm off, cy
[01:42:36] <CapnKernel> There he goes folks, in a cloud of smoke
[01:43:33] <theBear> my god
[02:16:46] <OndraSter> how's the new red dwarf? (dfletcher or who here just couldn't wait, but he is not here right now)
[03:28:46] <tld> Any thoughts about at which speeds I need to worry about using a simple resistor-divider for down-scaling IO-lines?
[03:38:07] <OndraSter> T=RC
[03:38:48] <tld> Hmm, point.
[03:59:12] <megal0maniac> Time for PDI
[03:59:20] <megal0maniac> Oh, hi RikusW
[04:02:40] <megal0maniac> Seems as though the UART pins aren't pullling low properly...
[04:04:11] <megal0maniac> Doesn't work on the level translator...
[04:08:32] <megal0maniac> When the UART pins are N/C (except for the scope) then there's signal. Swinging nicely between high and low. On the level translator, it "wobbles" (hardly any change) and pulls low maybe once or twice in a 5 second period.
[04:09:25] <megal0maniac> If I remove Vcc from the HV side of the level translator, then there's signal, but it's about 1V difference between high and low, resting at around 1.8V
[04:09:42] <megal0maniac> Any suggestions?
[04:12:50] <megal0maniac> Although the clock line is working as it should. It's just the data lines. Perhaps the fact that they're tied together is the problem?
[04:13:08] <RikusW> hi megal0maniac
[04:13:49] <megal0maniac> Actually yes. They can't be tied together if they're pulled up. That must be it...
[04:14:10] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: hiya
[04:14:10] <RikusW> I messed around with PDI too yesterday, but I suspect the xmega128A1 PDI_DATA line might be fried....
[04:14:31] <megal0maniac> You tied TX and RX together?
[04:14:45] <RikusW> megal0maniac: using 300 Ohm resistors yes
[04:15:03] <RikusW> then I tried moving it to le LV side
[04:15:26] <RikusW> I connected RX and TX on the LV side using 1 300 Ohm resistor
[04:15:39] <RikusW> and connected PDI_data to the RX side
[04:15:53] <RikusW> also I connected a 1k pullup to the LV clock side
[04:16:09] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I was thinking that since the two are never active at the same time, one of them is constantly pulled high. And being tied together, I think that might be the issue. Was also considering using the LV side...
[04:16:11] <RikusW> it seems to give a nice square wave on the scope
[04:16:14] <megal0maniac> RikusW: High
[04:16:21] <megal0maniac> I mean Richard_Cavell :P
[04:16:25] <megal0maniac> And hi
[04:16:30] <megal0maniac> electronics on the brain
[04:16:36] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[04:16:57] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you do know there is a diode in the mosfets ?
[04:17:03] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: Well mate I've finished the AVR tutorial I was on, finished the STK600 manual, and finished doing that series of electronic circuits I was doing
[04:17:10] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: looking for more stuff to learn now
[04:17:20] <RikusW> if you connect S to the HV side and D to LV it will conduct.... ooops....
[04:17:42] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I want to try running the U2S at 3V3 and seeing if it works... Worst thing that can happen is it won't do anything
[04:17:56] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: So what can you do with an AVR now? :)
[04:18:08] <RikusW> you could.... but the mkii wants 16MHz...
[04:18:24] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Well I'll try. It might just work
[04:18:28] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: blink lights, read input switches
[04:18:45] <RikusW> or set the mkii to use 8MHz prescaler instead
[04:18:51] <megal0maniac> It's out of spec, but so are many things which work :)
[04:18:54] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: I also know how to program via ISP, JTAG and high voltage
[04:18:58] <RikusW> the only difference will be the PDI clock will slow down
[04:19:23] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Will it still work and just program slower, or won't it work at all?
[04:19:29] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you'll have to edit the LUFA source to set the prescaler to 8MHz instead
[04:19:38] <RikusW> probably just program slower
[04:20:10] <RikusW> so find the place where the prescaler is changed to /1 and change to /2
[04:20:44] <RikusW> you'll still need the 300 Ohm resistor between RX and TX, with RX -> PDI data
[04:21:57] <megal0maniac> HA!
[04:22:03] <megal0maniac> It worked, connected directly
[04:22:23] <megal0maniac> U2S at 3v3 and no resistors.
[04:22:40] <megal0maniac> TX/RX to PDI and PD5 to CLK
[04:22:43] <OndraSter> do I hear success?
[04:22:44] <RikusW> rather add the tX resistor
[04:22:46] <megal0maniac> And GND to GND
[04:22:49] <megal0maniac> I will
[04:22:54] <megal0maniac> I have 220 ohm
[04:22:56] <RikusW> you short TX and PDI...
[04:22:59] <OndraSter> resistors ftw
[04:23:01] <RikusW> good enough
[04:23:04] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: You hear dangerous success :P
[04:23:07] <OndraSter> :D
[04:23:14] <megal0maniac> Running LUFA at 16mhz on 3v3
[04:23:20] <OndraSter> oh, I thought you already tested PDI :P
[04:23:30] <megal0maniac> First time it's ever worked
[04:23:55] <RikusW> 3v3 / 220 = 15mA which is acceptable
[04:24:21] <OndraSter> I like AVR for its driving strength
[04:24:26] <OndraSter> ARMs can do like 4 - 5mA usually tops
[04:24:35] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I'm amazed your U2S still works... :-P
[04:24:46] <OndraSter> :D
[04:24:48] <RikusW> thank atmel for IO pin protection....
[04:25:09] <OndraSter> AVRs are tough to break
[04:25:17] <OndraSter> but my friend killed one sume unknown way
[04:25:18] <OndraSter> some*
[04:25:27] <OndraSter> first the flash was corrupted after flash
[04:25:30] <OndraSter> and then it did not work anymore at all
[04:25:31] <RikusW> unless you spike Vcc with 25V.... even for a few ms...
[04:25:37] <OndraSter> you tried that? :D
[04:25:46] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Is TX on B2 or B3?
[04:25:51] <RikusW> yes, had a faulty psu...
[04:25:56] <OndraSter> fail
[04:25:57] <RikusW> iirc B3
[04:26:13] <megal0maniac> mkay I'll check datasheet :)
[04:26:29] <RikusW> OndraSter: when switched off the psu put out the full voltage on the regulated output, only a spike of a few ms
[04:26:56] <RikusW> D3
[04:27:10] <RikusW> so PDI_data -> D2 -> 220E -> D3
[04:27:33] <RikusW> XCLK on D5
[04:27:40] <OndraSter> anyway, I am off to the school
[04:27:42] <OndraSter> in a 5 minutes
[04:27:53] <megal0maniac> Level translator doesn't work for PDI, it seems
[04:28:01] <megal0maniac> I blame the pull-ups
[04:28:12] <RikusW> could be
[04:28:12] <OndraSter> I still am not convinced they will teach me anything new
[04:28:51] <RikusW> megal0maniac: maybe I should overclock one of my U2S boards too, maybe the xm128A1 will finally work ;)
[04:29:01] <RikusW> the dragon only works with its JTAG port
[04:29:21] <megal0maniac> Heh. You're right. I'm overclocking :P
[04:29:24] <OndraSter> :D
[04:29:31] <OndraSter> I ran xmega at 80MHz
[04:29:35] <OndraSter> and the LEDs were still blinking :P
[04:29:53] <OndraSter> and still at 3.3V
[04:30:04] <OndraSter> no overvolting and LN2 :P
[04:30:15] <OndraSter> at 80MHz it is... REALLY powerful
[04:30:21] <RikusW> almost triple speed leds :-P
[04:30:21] <OndraSter> it would be*
[04:30:23] <OndraSter> haha
[04:30:34] <OndraSter> I am off
[04:30:36] <OndraSter> back in many hours
[04:30:37] <RikusW> bb
[04:30:39] <OndraSter> bloody uni
[04:30:39] <OndraSter> bb
[04:30:44] <OndraSter> useless classes
[04:30:49] <OndraSter> but I have to be there
[04:30:54] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/9MLbH.png
[04:33:59] <RikusW> megal0maniac: happy now ;)
[04:34:35] <RikusW> I got U2S and mkii to work with t10 easily, I used 300E on both RX and TX
[04:34:41] <megal0maniac> Hasn't failed yet :)
[04:34:47] <megal0maniac> Using TPI?
[04:34:51] <RikusW> yes
[04:34:59] <megal0maniac> Is it similar to PDI?
[04:35:05] <RikusW> though maybe I should get another xmega, maybe xboard
[04:35:05] <megal0maniac> Haven't looked at it at all
[04:35:06] <RikusW> very
[04:35:14] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Get an xboard :P
[04:35:22] <RikusW> maybe I should
[04:35:23] <megal0maniac> I *think* you'll be the second one
[04:35:30] <RikusW> how much did you pay for it ?
[04:35:33] <megal0maniac> In which case, ALL the xboards will be in ZA :P
[04:36:18] <megal0maniac> Worked out to R278 incl. shipping
[04:36:19] <RikusW> and which xmega is on there again ?
[04:36:24] <megal0maniac> No tax
[04:36:33] <megal0maniac> atxmega256A3U
[04:37:15] <RikusW> maybe my dragon will work with its PDI
[04:37:52] <RikusW> I still have some money in my Moneybookers account, but a little less than that....
[04:38:43] <megal0maniac> Just read the full 256kb flash (+8kb boot) to a file. Took 16s
[04:38:46] <megal0maniac> No errors
[04:39:01] <megal0maniac> If it's easier, you can EFT me and I can pay with PayPaL?
[04:39:05] <RikusW> is there a bootloader on the xboard ?
[04:39:18] <megal0maniac> Yeah, standard DFU
[04:39:31] <megal0maniac> 16s is actually bloody quick
[04:39:47] <megal0maniac> You can read/write/erase flash and eeprom
[04:40:45] <RikusW> just don't draw too much current, the U2S regulator can only give out 80mA or so MAX
[04:41:08] <RikusW> maybe have the xboard connected to only U2S while programming
[04:41:33] <megal0maniac> They're seperately powered
[04:41:42] <RikusW> 3v3 on both ?
[04:41:46] <megal0maniac> Yep
[04:41:56] <megal0maniac> 1117 on the xboard
[04:42:14] <RikusW> as long as the difference isn't more than 500mV or so it should be fine
[04:42:37] <RikusW> more than that and the protection diodes will start conducting...
[04:42:41] <megal0maniac> It's almost exactly the same, I did check first :)
[04:42:54] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/Bk7ZXl.jpg
[04:42:54] <RikusW> good
[04:42:58] <megal0maniac> RikusW: That's for you
[04:43:12] <megal0maniac> Even made it smaller :P
[04:43:30] <RikusW> thanks :)
[04:43:38] <RikusW> loaded quite fast
[04:43:46] <RikusW> only 44kb
[04:43:49] <megal0maniac> Not sure if you know this, but if you append an "l" to the end of a image filename on imgur, it gives you a smaller version
[04:43:59] <megal0maniac> Original was 970kb or something
[04:44:15] <megal0maniac> Add the 'l' and bam! Tiny image
[04:44:43] <RikusW> ah
[04:44:53] <megal0maniac> Useful for GPRS
[04:45:05] <RikusW> very :)
[04:45:57] <RikusW> is it a JTAG header I see next to the PDI one ?
[04:46:05] <megal0maniac> Yip
[04:46:22] <RikusW> nice :)
[04:46:26] <megal0maniac> The text is still a bit shadowed
[04:46:38] <RikusW> the dragon probably won't work with the PDI connector....
[04:46:56] <RikusW> afaik if both JTAG and PDI is available only JTAG works...
[04:47:12] <RikusW> I sent quite a few emails to Atmel about this issue...
[04:47:24] <RikusW> lets ask OndraSter if the dragon works on PDI
[04:47:39] <megal0maniac> It comes in a box, with all pins soldered.
[04:47:47] <megal0maniac> I've heard about that issue as well
[04:47:48] <RikusW> I do have a few homemade JTAG cables around
[04:47:57] <megal0maniac> Think it might have changed in later firmware
[04:49:28] <RikusW> I got some YRF10 and YRF6 from MT
[04:49:35] <RikusW> and some ribbon cable too
[04:49:55] <RikusW> its very easy to make using two YRF10's and a piece of ribbon cable
[04:50:10] <RikusW> I used a bench vise to press the connectors into the ribbon cables
[04:50:23] <megal0maniac> I used a drawer :P
[04:50:28] <RikusW> YRF aka IDC socket
[04:50:31] <megal0maniac> Actually worked well
[04:50:44] <RikusW> a hammer works too ;)
[04:50:59] <megal0maniac> Well... It works for many things :P
[04:51:16] <RikusW> I just tapped lightly...
[04:51:33] <RikusW> and that was for moving a 40 pin IDE connector....
[04:51:43] <RikusW> didn't know the vice trick back then...
[04:52:03] * RikusW have like 50 34pin floppy cables lying around
[04:52:11] <RikusW> will have to find a use for them
[04:52:38] <RikusW> like connecting the dragon HVPP pins to a breakout board
[04:52:45] <megal0maniac> Lots of IDC connectors :)
[04:52:56] <RikusW> or connecting modules
[04:53:06] <RikusW> 34 pin yeah, its a bit big for JTAG...
[04:53:28] <RikusW> the ribbon cable itself can be split apart and reused
[04:53:56] * RikusW thinks the most secure location for data is on a stiffy among a stack of others... :-P
[04:55:02] <megal0maniac> I tend to disagree :P
[04:55:18] <megal0maniac> I've got 10way ribbon cable which I've used for various things
[04:55:27] <megal0maniac> ISP cables are one thing
[04:55:28] <RikusW> who will be looking for data in such a stack ?
[04:55:45] <megal0maniac> Oh, secure like that :)
[04:56:06] <megal0maniac> "Data read error: Cyclic redundancy check"
[04:56:15] <RikusW> retrievable, well thats another matter... read error !! :S
[04:56:17] <megal0maniac> Remember that? That wasn't fun
[04:56:28] <RikusW> grr no
[04:56:57] <RikusW> especially moving between different PC's, probably because the heads weren't aligned exactly the same
[04:57:10] <RikusW> usually it will read on the drive it was written
[04:57:45] <megal0maniac> It seemed random to me
[04:58:53] <RikusW> that too
[04:59:02] <RikusW> its annoying to use those
[04:59:09] <RikusW> USB stick is much much better
[04:59:47] <RikusW> megal0maniac: did you know its possible to put an old 5 1/4" 360k drive into a P4 ? :-P
[04:59:59] <RikusW> I actually have working 360k drives....
[05:00:08] <RikusW> from an old 8088
[05:00:09] <megal0maniac> I did. I even tried, but couldn't get it to work
[05:00:26] <RikusW> I got it to work in a P3
[05:00:33] <RikusW> did you setup the bios right ?
[05:00:55] <RikusW> and it could be a 1.2MB drive too
[05:01:28] <megal0maniac> I tried every possible combination of settings. No luck. This was quite long ago, though... I've got over 100 0.5mb disks
[05:02:31] <megal0maniac> F19 stealth fighter, among others :P
[05:02:42] <RikusW> remember Monty's ?
[05:02:57] <RikusW> I hacked it and made it slower, it runs on Win XP as is
[05:03:38] <megal0maniac> My dad still had his 486 running when I was younger. I vaguely remember some of the games, but not most of them
[05:08:26] <creep> ;>
[05:09:21] <tld> megal0maniac: If you remember some of them, there's a good chance you *do* remember all of them. ;)
[05:09:38] <creep> my hall potmeter lever unbalanced acts as an accelerometer if i incline it with 40mV/G sensitivity, 2.500V horizontal
[05:09:59] <megal0maniac> tld: I'm now looking through all of them :P
[05:10:35] <tld> https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_no/elfa/init.do?item=42-708-64&toc=18816 <-- they want $35 for 10 of them! $35!!
[05:11:27] <creep> Horologium :)
[05:14:33] <creep> haha i can make a gyro
[05:38:23] <Horologium> someone used my name in vain?
[05:40:46] <Horologium> megal0maniac, make an avr/vUSB based interface for the floppy!
[05:40:59] * megal0maniac tilts head in confusion
[05:41:19] <Horologium> you said you couldn't get floppy to work on newer pc.
[05:41:35] <megal0maniac> Well, yes
[05:41:59] <megal0maniac> But I have no idea how to do what you just said :)
[05:42:05] <Horologium> I have a usb-floppy here somewhere. maybe a couple of them. should tear one apart and see if I can fit a 5.25 drive to it.
[05:43:02] <RikusW> for an external floppy drive ? :-P
[05:43:05] <Horologium> neither do I. Well, some ideas, but couldn't just throw one together and write the software from scratch in an hour.
[05:43:18] <Horologium> would have to research.
[05:43:19] * RikusW would rather use and external TB hdd
[05:43:32] <Horologium> but a TB hdd won't read old disks.
[05:43:40] <megal0maniac> RikusW: But then how would you go about playing F19? :P
[05:44:29] <RikusW> I already dumped most of my 5 1/4" disks
[05:44:31] <Horologium> in the end, however, it would be simpler to throw linux on a 486 and use it to image all the disks then run them on vmware on the i5...
[05:44:36] <RikusW> a few don't work anymore
[05:44:38] <creep> Horologium<< my hall potmeter lever unbalanced acts as an accelerometer if i incline it with 40mV/G sensitivity, 2.500V horizontal :(
[05:44:40] <creep> :)
[05:44:47] <Horologium> kewl.
[05:44:49] <creep> i can make a gyro
[05:45:47] <Horologium> or a seismometer.
[05:46:14] <creep> yeah
[05:46:39] <RikusW> google geophone
[05:51:40] <RikusW> http://dbaseserver.mistermail.nl/t/1209702/5051326/230738/0/
[05:51:51] <RikusW> Elektor newsletter
[06:13:15] <OndraSter> RikusW, PDI works on 256a3u just fine
[06:13:18] <OndraSter> just as JTAG
[06:13:29] <OndraSter> it requires 20 - 25paf cap on the clock line
[06:13:31] <megal0maniac> With dragon?
[06:13:33] <OndraSter> yes
[06:13:43] <megal0maniac> Also with U2S XD
[06:13:46] <megal0maniac> But not JTAG
[06:13:56] <megal0maniac> Thus no debugging
[06:14:15] <OndraSter> so you got PDI working on U2S ?
[06:14:45] <RikusW> megal0maniac: There might be a way to make U2S work with xmega JTAG
[06:15:08] <OndraSter> how?
[06:15:09] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I included raw undocumented bitbang commands with the U2S jtag....
[06:15:10] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Yip. The LUFA based one
[06:15:15] <OndraSter> nice :)
[06:15:31] <OndraSter> RikusW, mega and xmega JTAG are quite different
[06:15:32] <megal0maniac> Read 256kb+8kb in 16 seconds
[06:15:38] <OndraSter> sounds about right
[06:15:42] <RikusW> all the xmega PDI JTAG logic will have to be on the PC
[06:15:54] <RikusW> OndraSter: xm JTAG is PDI wrapped in JTAG
[06:16:07] <OndraSter> I thought it was the other way :P
[06:16:15] <OndraSter> so
[06:16:19] <OndraSter> do you have it working yet?
[06:16:32] <OndraSter> I like my Dragon, $50 is not that much for debugger
[06:16:51] <OndraSter> some ARM debuggers or FPGA stuff are like $300+
[06:16:53] <RikusW> indeed
[06:17:05] <RikusW> JTAGICE mkii is expensive too
[06:17:13] <OndraSter> indeed
[06:17:17] <OndraSter> jtagice3 is cheaper even :D
[06:17:21] <OndraSter> which I don't understand
[06:17:24] <megal0maniac> Was just about to say that
[06:17:26] <OndraSter> and it does not even support ISP on chips!
[06:17:29] <RikusW> its AT32UC3A3 base
[06:17:33] <RikusW> *basde
[06:17:35] <OndraSter> so?
[06:17:37] <RikusW> *based...
[06:17:48] * RikusW have a 3A3 xplain board...
[06:17:53] <OndraSter> has*
[06:17:55] <OndraSter> :D
[06:18:02] <RikusW> maybe it could be converted into a ICE :-P
[06:18:05] <OndraSter> training before grammar nazi comes
[06:18:06] <OndraSter> heh
[06:18:15] <RikusW> lol
[06:18:18] <megal0maniac> https://twitter.com/abcminiuser/status/253750064915296256
[06:18:39] <megal0maniac> Which makes me think it's a recent change
[06:19:16] <OndraSter> wow
[06:19:16] <megal0maniac> Still costs the same as two dragons though :P
[06:19:18] <OndraSter> :D
[06:19:24] <OndraSter> but jtagice3 is much faster
[06:19:26] <OndraSter> and more reliable
[06:19:35] <OndraSter> Dragon is not ideal for everything, like that PDI issue
[06:19:39] <OndraSter> output is not thebest one either
[06:19:43] <OndraSter> just transistors
[06:20:18] <OndraSter> and I am PISSED at school because on the bloody Sun thin clients backspace works but delete does nothing
[06:20:28] <OndraSter> and on SSH delete works the same way as backspace
[06:20:31] <OndraSter> (or the other way around?)
[06:21:38] <RikusW> I messed around with a level translator and xmega128A1 and the LUFA mkii
[06:21:43] <megal0maniac> Nobody cares about Sun thin clients I'm afraid :)
[06:21:57] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, this uni does
[06:22:04] <RikusW> got it to enter programming mode eventually but it read the sig as 0 0 0 0 and fails to exit
[06:22:04] <OndraSter> ..
[06:22:08] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Yeah, but they shouldn't :P
[06:22:09] <OndraSter> heh
[06:22:14] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, I think that too
[06:22:23] <megal0maniac> orly?
[06:22:29] <megal0maniac> Didn't pick up on that :P
[06:22:37] <RikusW> megal0maniac: then you don't want to use Sunnix terminals :-P
[06:22:44] <megal0maniac> I do not
[06:22:44] <RikusW> or Uniterm either
[06:22:49] <megal0maniac> Mainstream, please
[06:23:07] <RikusW> its a VT-100 type terminal, using an 8088 inside
[06:23:14] <OndraSter> mm
[06:23:17] <OndraSter> I always wanted such device
[06:23:32] <megal0maniac> Our school was completely windows. And still is I think. Except for the server, which runs linux
[06:23:38] <RikusW> some have monochrome screens some vga
[06:23:43] <OndraSter> we have got on all computers looniks
[06:23:45] <OndraSter> gentoo
[06:23:48] <OndraSter> (except these suns)
[06:23:51] <OndraSter> and some run W7 too
[06:23:52] <megal0maniac> AD would've made EVERYthing easier, but nooooo
[06:23:54] <RikusW> OndraSter: what do you want to do with it ?
[06:24:02] <OndraSter> RikusW, with the suns or with what?
[06:24:19] <megal0maniac> He wants nothing to do with it :P
[06:24:34] <RikusW> with a serial terminal ?
[06:24:36] <OndraSter> oh
[06:24:46] <OndraSter> just hook it up to (x)mega for debugging :P
[06:24:53] <OndraSter> instead searching for serial converter every single time
[06:24:54] <OndraSter> and USB cable for it
[06:24:57] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: what are you up to with AVRs these days?
[06:25:02] <RikusW> I could send it to you, not sure about shipping fees...
[06:25:10] <OndraSter> they would be really high IMHO
[06:25:10] <megal0maniac> Ooh!
[06:25:14] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: right now I'm learning the C89 standard
[06:25:40] <RikusW> surface mail might be cheaper, though it will take a while
[06:25:47] <RikusW> s/might/will/
[06:25:59] <RikusW> I could find out if you want ?
[06:26:03] <OndraSter> surface from africa to europe? :P
[06:26:08] <OndraSter> how big is it?
[06:26:15] <megal0maniac> RikusW: A small package (envelope) to CZ cost R60
[06:26:27] <megal0maniac> But it weighed almost nothing
[06:26:28] <OndraSter> I don't know how much R60 is
[06:26:34] <megal0maniac> EUR6
[06:26:36] <OndraSter> oh
[06:26:39] <OndraSter> that is quite a lot
[06:26:54] <OndraSter> I paid for xboard something around 4€
[06:26:57] <OndraSter> to ZAR
[06:27:16] <RikusW> OndraSter: I have like 7 of those terminal boxes here
[06:27:17] <megal0maniac> Postage is expensive, and often unreliable here
[06:27:19] <OndraSter> it is actually cheaper than locally lol
[06:27:41] <RikusW> And I paid about 3 Euro to ship an U2S to vectory in Germany
[06:28:04] <megal0maniac> I got ripped off :P
[06:28:18] <OndraSter> packaging!
[06:28:21] <OndraSter> box + labels :P
[06:28:46] <OndraSter> and ducktape
[06:28:55] <OndraSter> and antistatic bag! And bubblewrap!
[06:29:06] <OndraSter> now I have got even new antistatic bags which are sealed :P
[06:29:15] <OndraSter> came the day after I shipped yours...
[06:29:33] <megal0maniac> You sealed this one with sticky tape. Good enough :)
[06:29:37] <RikusW> OndraSter: I'll weigh the terminals and enquire about shipping fees...
[06:29:43] <OndraSter> thanks
[06:30:00] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'll put myself next in line :P
[06:30:03] <RikusW> I wonder what such a terminal is worth...
[06:30:10] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you want one too ?
[06:30:14] <megal0maniac> Heh
[06:30:17] <megal0maniac> Perhaps
[06:30:22] <OndraSter> are those good old VT-100 ones or some clones?
[06:30:27] <OndraSter> I want to check what is the maximum speed :P
[06:30:34] <RikusW> Uniterm
[06:30:37] <OndraSter> 2MBaud probably won't work
[06:30:43] <OndraSter> let alone 4MBaud
[06:30:46] <RikusW> there is one Sunnix
[06:30:50] <RikusW> yep
[06:31:05] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: You could pick up a cheap TV and load Tellyduino onto a m328p
[06:31:12] <OndraSter> meh, I think I will skip this offer anyway, just another old stuff to keep here
[06:31:13] <OndraSter> aye
[06:31:27] <megal0maniac> Works quite well
[06:31:33] <OndraSter> I have got here some 15" LCDs I could convert to serial stuff
[06:31:38] <OndraSter> with bluetooth for keyboard :P
[06:32:21] <megal0maniac> I keep calling it "tellyduino"
[06:32:41] <megal0maniac> The only result for that word on google, is a log entry with me saying it :P
[06:32:49] <OndraSter> :D
[06:33:05] <megal0maniac> TellyMate
[06:33:53] <OndraSter> if I were doing only single colour mode on the VGA I suppose I could do 15" just fine
[06:34:02] <OndraSter> it just requires a lot of memory
[06:34:08] <megal0maniac> http://www.batsocks.co.uk/products/Other/TellyMate.htm
[06:34:13] <OndraSter> if you want to keep it as graphic rather as text
[06:34:20] <OndraSter> 1024x768 pixels
[06:34:23] <RikusW> it does...
[06:34:27] <OndraSter> although with 1bit colours...
[06:34:41] <OndraSter> 98kB
[06:35:34] <megal0maniac> RX & GND, and you connect to RCA plug on a TV. Autobauding as well. Done.
[06:36:42] <RikusW> OndraSter: it seems Atmel officially writes ATxmega
[06:36:45] <RikusW> small x
[06:36:54] <OndraSter> hmm
[06:37:03] <RikusW> You have just stambled upon --- u ---
[06:37:03] <OndraSter> I like it with big x
[06:37:07] <OndraSter> :D
[06:37:12] <OndraSter> zork?
[06:37:18] <RikusW> on you homepage
[06:37:24] <OndraSter> oh
[06:37:27] <RikusW> typo police :-P
[06:37:38] <OndraSter> on myxboard or which my homepage
[06:37:40] <megal0maniac> Stambled!!!!
[06:37:45] <OndraSter> :D
[06:37:47] <OndraSter> happens
[06:38:11] <megal0maniac> "Did you mean: define:stumble"
[06:38:25] <OndraSter> I ment stumbled, yes
[06:38:37] <megal0maniac> Google, not me. I know what you meant
[06:38:55] <OndraSter> :P
[06:44:13] <OndraSter> SunOS fray3 5.10 Generic_147440-12 sun4v sparc SUNW,T5440
[06:44:17] <OndraSter> this is our server
[06:45:47] <RikusW> Ahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_field_microscopy
[06:45:56] <OndraSter> RF is black magic
[06:46:04] <RikusW> it is
[06:46:05] <OndraSter> resistor 66M too :P
[06:46:10] <OndraSter> although it should be 61M
[06:46:11] <RikusW> unless you have the proper tools
[06:47:00] <RikusW> my DMM can measure 2G == 2000M Ohm
[06:47:20] <OndraSter> (SMD resistors)
[06:47:42] <RikusW> ah interpreting the marking..
[06:55:04] * RikusW have a microscope with 4x 10x and 40x + a 10x and 16x eyepiece :)
[06:55:48] * RikusW should add dark field capability
[06:56:15] <megal0maniac> RikusW is a magician :/
[06:56:50] <RikusW> why ?
[06:57:48] <RikusW> http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~bioslabs/methods/microscopy/dfield.html
[07:00:10] <megal0maniac> It sounded way more complicated :)
[07:00:26] <RikusW> its not
[07:02:29] <megal0maniac> I know that now
[07:02:37] <OndraSter> aand to another lesson
[07:02:58] <megal0maniac> YAAAAY
[07:03:19] <megal0maniac> I can't wait to start studying again, honestly
[07:03:37] <OndraSter> lol
[07:03:56] <OndraSter> I am doing all programming in nano in virtual debian
[07:04:04] <OndraSter> poor 1.7GHz CPU without virtualization and with 2GB RAM :P
[07:04:13] <OndraSter> has to take all this stuff just because we have this shit
[07:04:17] <OndraSter> where is not even defined M_PI
[07:04:25] <OndraSter> GOOD WORK ORACLE FOR BEING COPMATIBLE
[07:04:29] <OndraSter> COMPATIBLE even
[07:06:45] <megal0maniac> Room cleaning time. Bye bye. Enjoy class.
[07:07:03] * megal0maniac tries to get rid of distractions
[07:10:55] <RikusW> the microscope messes up my focus, even afterwards like now...
[07:12:55] <RikusW> it seems the eye not looking is affected worse...
[07:13:17] <RikusW> maybe a camera connected to a PC would be a better idea
[07:13:53] <RikusW> looking through a microscope 10 hours a day is a sure way to mess up your eyes...
[08:18:18] <Sur3> damn, seems i burned my first ATmega and the programmer by in a haste connecting the IGBT wrong around -.-
[08:20:10] <Sur3> i cant believe this, why did i swap base and emitter agian o.O
[08:21:38] <RikusW> Sur3: what kind of voltages were involved ?
[08:22:28] <RikusW> you could test protection diodes with a DMM
[08:22:53] <RikusW> and Vcc - Gnd measurement differs if the AVR is burnt
[08:24:47] <Sur3> well thanks but it was warm and didnt does it work anymore, so its pretty obvious its burned ^^
[08:26:00] <Sur3> for sure it coulnt stand 230V, but i wonder why the LED is still working after this, hope the sensor also still workes
[08:26:26] <Sur3> about 30 Euro less then i have now
[08:27:00] <Sur3> but the base resistor had a nice glowing ^^
[08:28:05] <RikusW> ooooh thats bad
[08:28:22] * RikusW don't like connecting AVR's to 230V....
[08:28:33] <RikusW> opto isolation is best fot that
[08:28:38] <Sur3> and 3 IGBT left now..
[08:29:24] <Sur3> yeah think i will use the opto isolation next time, didnt think i would be so stupid to confuse base and emitter again -.-
[08:29:43] <OndraSter> fail
[08:29:51] <OndraSter> RikusW, through 1M resistor it is fine :)
[08:29:58] <OndraSter> to detect zero voltage crossing
[08:30:08] <Sur3> anyway the burned ATmega is not that prob because i still have 4 left but i dont have another programmer
[08:30:51] <Sur3> luckily the programmer still works as 5V power supply xD
[08:31:10] <RikusW> what type of programmer ?
[08:31:17] <Sur3> polulu
[08:32:06] <Sur3> but i wonder why the LED still workes but the programmer and the ATmega are burned
[08:34:22] <Sur3> why do burned resistors get conductive? i think that is a missdesign x-/
[08:35:28] <RikusW> sometimes they open up
[08:36:03] <Konsgn> sometimes they burn and cause a short across themselves, but it's more common for them to open
[08:36:44] <Sur3> i wish mine would have opened -.-
[08:39:27] <theBear> it probably did neither, at least not before the damage occurred
[08:41:13] <Sur3> hm nor gate also still working, i would have though this to burn first, because it also reacts when my hand is just near and not touching it
[08:42:26] <Sur3> well then i have time now for other projects till i got a new programmer.. xD
[08:44:14] <Sur3> the circuit seems shortcuted now when i connect the burned ATmega
[08:44:34] <Sur3> probably that saved the other components
[08:45:03] <OndraSter> damn I am sleepy
[08:45:08] <OndraSter> I shouldn't have grabbed the beer!
[08:46:28] <Sur3> lol seems im sleepy too, read the beer but theBear xD
[08:46:31] <theBear> Sur3, probably you shouldn't assume things you don't know
[08:46:41] <OndraSter> lol
[08:48:16] <Sur3> huh? i know the othercomponents are still working because i testet them and the ATmega is shortening the circuit, so this is just deduction i think, because when the circuit is shortened thn the other components dont get voltage
[08:50:44] <RikusW> it could've before shorting..
[08:52:39] <Sur3> sure but if the ATmega shortened fast enaugh then the other components got the high voltage just for a peak time, but if it wouldnt have shortened then the other components would have goten the voltage other longer time, and probably also burn
[08:53:09] <RikusW> HV can do funny things....
[08:53:18] <Sur3> last other -> over
[08:53:28] <theBear> it may be shorting across some pins, it isn't shortening anything, and there's no reason to believe that one 'dead' component saved any others unless tehre's a reason, which there isn't here
[08:54:08] <theBear> also the nor gate may have a very high impedance input, but it may also be specced for 3 times the vcc of the avr, and/or have MUCH higher surge tolerances on the pins
[08:55:05] <theBear> RikusW, no shit... yesterday i was halfway thru a horror giant poweramp repair and at switchon half the switching supply flashed and instantly turned black and destroyed all its silicon components...
[08:58:45] <Sur3> coild i use a ftdi for programming?
[08:58:56] <Sur3> -i+u
[09:02:13] <Sur3> ahh found something called ftdi bit bang, but lookes kinda weired
[09:03:16] <Sur3> think i see you next month when i have a nwe programmer ;)
[09:03:58] <r00t|home> why a month?
[09:04:05] <r00t|home> and yes, there are ftdi based programmers
[09:05:00] <Sur3> the ftdi based programmer i saw in circuits seem to need many other components i dont have
[09:05:43] <r00t|home> and why a month to get a new programmer?
[09:07:08] <Sur3> because i would order some other compenents with it and need to make a list, so i could not order till next week, after an exam, but then the next semester starts an i need two weeks to get into my new lectures
[09:08:45] <Sur3> but meanwhile i'll order 1000 rgb leds, they will be fun i think ^^
[09:08:57] <OndraSter> wow
[09:08:59] <OndraSter> for how much?
[09:09:07] <Sur3> 90 Euro
[09:09:13] <OndraSter> that is a lot
[09:09:19] <OndraSter> what 1k LEDs for?
[09:09:33] <Sur3> yeah, also thought about just ordering 200 for 20 euro
[09:09:50] <Sur3> but i would like to solger a 8x8x8 cube
[09:09:55] <Sur3> *solder
[09:10:12] <Sur3> first starting wiht a 3x3x3 one and then extending it
[09:10:22] <OndraSter> nice
[09:12:00] <Sur3> the 3x3x3 is already 108 solderings and with the resistors even a factor of that so it a longtime project ^^
[09:13:22] <OndraSter> don't be lazy :P
[09:13:32] <OndraSter> I have done 3072 LEDs in a matrix
[09:13:36] <OndraSter> 24x 8x8 matrices
[09:13:48] <OndraSter> something like 24x24 pins to solder
[09:13:54] <OndraSter> + then wires to each one of them :P
[09:14:00] <Sur3> uhh thats pretty cool too, how log did u need?
[09:14:10] <OndraSter> about an hour?
[09:14:26] <Sur3> whu? really? youre a monster xD
[09:14:33] <OndraSter> it goes fast once you figure out the best way :P
[09:14:41] <Sur3> hope so ^^
[09:14:42] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: Hi
[09:14:46] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, hi
[09:14:50] <CapnKernel> http://imgur.com/gallery/Wq4kC
[09:14:58] <OndraSter> is that for me? :-*
[09:15:13] <OndraSter> yeah seen that
[09:15:22] <Sur3> but the matrices where already 8x8 and you didnt have to solder them right?
[09:15:30] <OndraSter> I soldered the matrices themselves
[09:15:33] <OndraSter> 24 pins each
[09:16:06] <Sur3> but 8x8 would be 64 solderings??
[09:16:15] <OndraSter> yes, they are already connected inside
[09:16:16] <CapnKernel> x2 no?
[09:16:21] <Sur3> jep x2
[09:16:53] <OndraSter> they had 24 pins out on each matrice
[09:17:04] <OndraSter> 8 rows and twice 8 columns
[09:17:05] <Sur3> k so the 8x8 were soldered and you just connected them ok, an what color does the matrice have?
[09:17:06] <OndraSter> aka red and green
[09:17:21] <Sur3> ok
[09:17:52] <Sur3> how do u control them? shift-gatters?
[09:18:16] <OndraSter> 24 current drivers
[09:18:17] <OndraSter> shift registers
[09:18:33] <OndraSter> and then one shift register which contains the current column
[09:18:39] <OndraSter> which drives high power mosfets
[09:18:46] <OndraSter> "high poewr" = 3A constant, 14A pulsed
[09:18:48] <OndraSter> which was enough
[09:18:56] <Sur3> whu 24 current drivers? didnt you find a big one?
[09:19:06] <OndraSter> because they were 8bit ones. I got them for free
[09:19:15] <Sur3> ah ok
[09:21:09] <Sur3> why did u use high power mosfet, are the led really using that much current ore dont they drive a single led but a row?
[09:23:01] <OndraSter> well, the MOSFETs are driving 96 LEDs at once :P
[09:23:57] <OndraSter> and I am pumping about 60 - 70mA through the LEDs
[09:24:10] <OndraSter> because their duty cycle is really small
[09:24:38] <Sur3> 512 x4 (led) + 512 x3 (resistor) + 512 x3 (transistor) + 512 x3 (shift-gatters) think thats what i would have soldered in final configuration, any idea if i could reduce this setup somehow?
[09:25:06] <Sur3> wait my calc was wrong
[09:25:32] <Sur3> because a transistor has 3 pins so its 512 x3 x3 for this
[09:31:20] <Sur3> can i drop the resistors if i use a current driver?
[09:31:32] <creep> what do you recommend for adding friction to a throttle quadrant or stay-in-place-throttle-pedal?
[09:31:34] <OndraSter> aka shift reg with current driver?
[09:31:54] <Sur3> @OndraSter jep
[09:32:00] <OndraSter> you don't need resistors then
[09:32:05] <OndraSter> well, the drivers will need
[09:32:07] <Sur3> ah great ^^
[09:35:51] <Sur35> damn did anyone write anything, was disconnected
[09:35:57] <OndraSter> no
[09:36:04] <Sur35> k
[09:36:31] <Sur35> no i need the transistors or no noone wrote anything?
[09:36:42] <OndraSter> nobody wrote anything
[09:36:45] <Sur35> k
[09:36:47] <OndraSter> creep, what are you building?
[09:38:42] <creep> OndraSter<< Joystick, throttle quadrant, rudder pedals with toebrakes, Yoke
[09:38:54] <OndraSter> oh, for a wihle I thought you were building an electric go kart :P
[09:39:15] <creep> hmm, no, i want larger wheels so i only have plans for electric bike
[09:39:26] <OndraSter> I need to find an engine I could use for that
[09:39:37] <creep> you have money for it?
[09:39:58] <OndraSter> I don't need to build it immediatily
[09:40:04] <OndraSter> if it takes me a year - no problem
[09:40:15] <OndraSter> but the hardest part for me is to find suitable motor
[09:40:16] <creep> motors are readily available for it.
[09:40:22] <OndraSter> yeah but for how much.
[09:40:23] <creep> haha
[09:40:27] <OndraSter> something like 2kW DC?
[09:40:30] <creep> why? you have a motor controller?
[09:40:30] <OndraSter> or 1kW
[09:40:38] <OndraSter> I like to learn stuff :P
[09:40:43] <OndraSter> depends on the motor
[09:40:45] <creep> i strongly sugggest a 3 phase BLDC
[09:40:47] <OndraSter> (DC/AC, ..)
[09:40:53] <creep> 300W or above
[09:41:01] <OndraSter> doing 3 phase from battery..
[09:41:03] <OndraSter> so much losses!
[09:41:11] <OndraSter> brb
[09:41:20] <creep> actually, 300W+ motors do 95%+ efficiency
[09:41:29] <creep> DC brushed will take you 50-70%
[09:42:09] <creep> i have 3 phase controller in progress currently
[09:42:29] <CapnKernel> creep: I have some questions.
[09:43:04] <CapnKernel> If you have a three-phase generator, I'd imagine you get three sinusoidal outputs, 120 degrees apart in phase. Is that right?
[09:43:17] <CapnKernel> (Assuming it's not something wacky)
[09:43:23] <creep> +
[09:43:53] <creep> but if you have a CD-rom motor, that is a BLDC motor, it can function as a generator, and a motor too
[09:44:06] <CapnKernel> My question, if you're driving a three-phase motor, and you had ideal voltage sources, would it be more efficient to drive the motor with three sinusoidal signals?
[09:44:23] <creep> yes, a little more efficient, not too much.
[09:44:32] <CapnKernel> Do you lose anything from driving the motor using three on-off switched phases?
[09:44:53] <creep> resistive heating...
[09:44:56] <CapnKernel> Or to be ideal, should the phases use PWM to approximate the power of a sinusoidal signal?
[09:45:06] <creep> but the motor inductance acts as a filter
[09:45:36] <CapnKernel> So apart from resistive heating, there's no benefit from being fancy?
[09:46:16] <creep> there is benefit, if you take the additional complexity and cost, you can have a smoother rotation, less vibration and like 2-5% more efficiency
[09:46:37] <CapnKernel> Because the torque will be constant?
[09:46:46] <creep> +
[09:47:04] <CapnKernel> Interesting, thanks!
[09:47:28] <creep> but BLDC motors are usually designed for faster commutation, more trapezodial shaped voltages...
[09:47:59] <creep> but giving it a little more sine shaped control reduces vibrations...
[09:48:18] <Sur35> im off cya
[09:48:36] <creep> anybody made quadcopter yet?
[09:48:41] <CapnKernel> How does one do trapezoidal signals without doing switching in the linear region?
[09:49:02] <creep> in resonant mode
[09:49:56] <creep> for power supplies and inductive heating devices its common above 1kW
[10:28:20] <AR__> which is better: pic or avr?
[10:30:17] <vectory> what is taller, a house or a hill?
[10:30:30] <AR__> my house is on a hill
[10:30:35] <AR__> so my house
[10:36:54] <OndraSter> pic sucks ofc
[10:36:58] <OndraSter> :P
[10:37:44] <tmpvar> i couldn't imagine going back to pic
[10:58:59] <vectory> let me rephrase that. whats better, a porsch or a ferrari?
[10:59:01] <tld> Any advice on decent wire for veroboarding?
[10:59:36] <vectory> adafruit/ladyada has an article about pic vs avr vs ...
[11:00:05] <vectory> tld: s/device/advice/ ?
[11:00:25] <vectory> oh, nvm, misread
[11:00:39] <tld> started to worry about my eyesight there for a sec. ;)
[13:25:14] <OndraSter> hmm I am searching for some finished digitally controller "at least 3band" audio "DSP"
[13:25:24] <OndraSter> that I could simply plug in between my phone (or A2DP receiver) and headphones
[13:25:28] <OndraSter> I can't find anything finished
[13:25:35] <OndraSter> http://www.st.com/internet/imag_video/product/75615.jsp + some small attiny would be nice :)
[13:52:46] <OndraSter> what would be a good source for small (128x32/128x64) OLEDs? Mouser has no such things (or if they do, they are ridiculously expensive) and the other source is ebay
[13:52:52] <OndraSter> $5.65 for 128x64
[13:52:56] <OndraSter> I would prefer 128x32
[13:53:11] <OndraSter> but they are more expensive :P
[13:58:53] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-96-inch-Screen-128x64-OLED-LED-LCD-Display-Module-Blue-Yellow-/160879914739?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257530aef3
[13:58:54] <OndraSter> hmm
[13:58:55] <OndraSter> with i2c
[13:59:07] <OndraSter> if they had even touchscreen it would be perfect :P
[13:59:10] <OndraSter> two buttons would fit on that
[14:39:53] <OndraSter> hmm our "mathematical logic" teacher gave us a homework about what will be result of this:
http://clip2net.com/s/2mRIQ (^ = NAND, v = NOR). He also wants HOW did we reach that result. Will he take when I made an app to do the math for me? It took me like 3 minutes to get the app running :D
[14:42:34] <RikusW> give the source code as part of the assignment ;)
[14:44:40] <OndraSter> aye
[14:45:00] <OndraSter> he hasn't written there "you are not allowed to make an app for it" :D
[14:46:08] <RikusW> heck, thats one nasty lot of brackets...
[14:46:12] <OndraSter> ye
[14:46:25] <OndraSter> I tried it doing quickly by hand, but there was no apparent pattern
[14:46:32] <OndraSter> so it was just faster to make an app rather think about it :)
[14:49:16] <Steffanx> Most teacher don't like it when you don't do it their way OndraSter ..
[14:49:20] <Steffanx> *teachers
[14:50:10] <Steffanx> He want to know if YOU can solve it, not if your can write a program that solves it for you :)
[14:50:22] <Steffanx> Argh, my english sucks today
[14:51:18] <RikusW> OndraSter: you know that !A & !B = !C ====> A | B = C ?
[14:51:42] <RikusW> and !A | !B = !C ====> A & B = C
[14:52:37] <Landon> yes, this is about increasing your visual comprehension
[14:52:44] <Landon> not your ability to brute force
[14:56:16] <RikusW> OndraSter: !A | !B | C | !D | E | !F | G | !H
[14:58:06] <Steffanx> Don't do his homework for him mr RikusW :P
[14:58:13] <RikusW> heh
[15:00:39] <RikusW> /(AB/CD/EF/GH)
[15:05:09] <OndraSter> RikusW, I know that
[15:05:18] <OndraSter> but writing the app was still faster :)
[15:05:27] <OndraSter> and that does not help you
[15:05:53] <OndraSter> although
[15:06:00] <OndraSter> if you manage to get it all into |
[15:06:08] <OndraSter> there will be always exactly one half 1 and one half 0
[15:06:17] <OndraSter> ahem
[15:06:19] <OndraSter> no
[15:06:57] <RikusW> it can be written in any form you like
[15:07:07] <RikusW> / == !
[15:07:19] <RikusW> or the line above a letter
[15:07:24] <OndraSter> yes, but how would that help me?
[15:07:27] <OndraSter> I wasn't on his lecture
[15:07:29] <OndraSter> it is too late in the day :P
[15:09:16] <Amadiro> OndraSter, are you supposed to evaluate this for given values for the variables?
[15:09:28] <Amadiro> or are you supposed to only simplify it algebraically
[15:10:49] <OndraSter> no
[15:10:50] <OndraSter> neither
[15:11:01] <OndraSter> just figure out for how many combinations it is true
[15:11:07] <OndraSter> the result
[15:11:55] <Amadiro> mhk, fairly straightforward
[15:12:19] <RikusW> so you just put it in a loop ?
[15:12:25] <OndraSter> basically
[15:12:35] <OndraSter> I am not putting the code publicly, since it is logged :P
[15:15:13] <RikusW> OndraSter: your NAND is actually XOR.....
[15:15:33] <RikusW> and use && and ||
[15:15:42] <OndraSter> it actually does not matter
[15:15:49] <OndraSter> because | on bools is the same as ||
[15:15:51] <OndraSter> :)
[15:16:05] <RikusW> but == instead of & does matter....
[15:16:19] <OndraSter> oh
[15:16:20] <OndraSter> right
[15:16:29] <OndraSter> oops
[15:16:52] <RikusW> so NAND suddenly became XOR :-P
[15:16:56] <OndraSter> :D
[15:18:15] <OndraSter> I even thought that I used && and |
[15:18:19] <OndraSter> happens :D
[15:18:45] <RikusW> I'd rather use && and || to be safe...
[15:19:02] <RikusW> assumptions can cause bad bugs...
[15:19:17] <Essobi> Sup.
[15:20:00] * RikusW just helped OndraSter with his homework :-P
[15:20:48] <RikusW> just showed him a "typo" in his code....
[15:20:53] <OndraSter> :D
[15:34:46] <Essobi> aww, he logged.
[15:46:03] <OndraSter> ST, Y U NO SAMPLES of TDA7439DS
[15:52:45] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: I like that oled screen
[15:52:58] <megal0maniac> It's the same one that you get in the Sansa Clip+
[15:55:14] <megal0maniac> It's worth noting, that the screen resolution is 128x66, except two rows between the blue and yellow are nothing. If you're keen to check it out...
http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/sansaclipplus-sim-w32.zip
[15:56:54] <OndraSter> thanks
[15:57:04] <OndraSter> nothing as in..?
[15:57:10] <OndraSter> there are NO rows? :P
[15:57:25] <OndraSter> I don't mind that
[15:57:39] <OndraSter> yellow would be for preset info and blue for the actual bars
[15:57:44] <OndraSter> (+ yellow for battery status)
[15:58:04] <megal0maniac> tld: If you're still there, solid core CAT5 cable
[15:58:59] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Yeah, just 2 blank rows. It's intended to be used like that, though. The original firmware doesn't really give away the fact that there are dead rows
[15:59:57] <megal0maniac> And what's with that guy coming onto #avr asking whether PIC or AVR is better?
[16:00:25] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Less effort :)
http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=sansaclipplus
[16:01:05] <OndraSter> :)
[16:01:14] <OndraSter> I would be fine with it too :P
[16:02:34] <megal0maniac> What do you want it for?
[16:03:19] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> hmm I am searching for some finished digitally controller "at least 3band" audio "DSP"
[16:03:19] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> that I could simply plug in between my phone (or A2DP receiver) and headphones
[16:03:19] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> I can't find anything finished
[16:03:20] <OndraSter> :P
[16:03:24] <OndraSter> hardware equalizer
[16:03:30] <OndraSter> I could find only some "manual analog ones"
[16:03:36] <megal0maniac> Aha...
[16:03:42] <OndraSter> both finished and schematics
[16:03:48] <megal0maniac> Didn't realise that was related
[16:03:48] <OndraSter> but they are either too simple or suck
[16:03:52] <OndraSter> :)
[16:03:56] <OndraSter> I would make my own one :P
[16:04:01] <OndraSter> small xmega16d4 or 32d4
[16:04:04] <OndraSter> this OLED
[16:04:16] <OndraSter> that TDA7xxxDS as the 3band filter
[16:04:17] <OndraSter> and done
[16:05:38] <OndraSter> 3 buttons*
[16:06:13] <megal0maniac> That would be pretty impressive...
[16:06:19] <OndraSter> aye
[16:06:23] <OndraSter> and small as possible
[16:06:32] <megal0maniac> But you'd need ADC/DAC >16bit
[16:06:34] <OndraSter> battery powered
[16:06:36] <OndraSter> why?
[16:06:42] <OndraSter> the TDA7xxxDS is "DSP"
[16:06:47] <OndraSter> you controll via i2c the levels
[16:06:53] <OndraSter> and you put in analog and analog comes out :)
[16:06:57] <OndraSter> all scaled as you want
[16:07:16] <megal0maniac> You still need ADC/DAC :P But it's in that chip so it's fine :)
[16:07:21] <OndraSter> "Three band digitally controlled audio processor"
[16:07:29] <OndraSter> I don't know how it works inside
[16:07:33] <megal0maniac> Magic
[16:07:35] <OndraSter> TDA7439DS
[16:07:37] <megal0maniac> That's how xmega works
[16:07:40] <OndraSter> no, RF engineering is magic
[16:07:45] <OndraSter> DARK magic
[16:08:10] <OndraSter> the chip looks really great :P
[16:08:31] <OndraSter> 3.something eur/1pcs, 2.3eur/100pcs
[16:08:41] <OndraSter> the OLED would be the most expensive thing there :D
[16:11:58] <megal0maniac> Odd. Doesn't specify how many bits...
[16:12:09] <megal0maniac> Unless there's no ADC, but there has to be
[16:13:39] <megal0maniac> Oh well. Magic :)
[16:13:55] <OndraSter> no, there does not have to be :)
[16:14:21] <megal0maniac> Then it's digitally controlled, analogue circuitry
[16:14:54] <OndraSter> yes
[16:14:59] <megal0maniac> Neat
[16:15:58] <megal0maniac> We have a mixing console like that at work. Every board in that desk has loads of digitally controlled switches
[16:16:43] <megal0maniac> Fully analogue, but controlled digitally. Set-up can be saved onto flash drive, digital routing, etc.
[16:16:58] <megal0maniac> Neve Genesys is its name
[16:21:55] <OndraSter> any cool stuff I should sample from TI?
[16:21:59] <OndraSter> err
[16:22:00] <OndraSter> from ST
[16:22:13] <OndraSter> the four chips I picked randomly from STM32L series was not available for samples
[16:22:23] <OndraSter> were
[16:26:12] <OndraSter> xmega is still better than those stm8
[16:30:31] <megal0maniac> Only things I have from ST are shift registers. They're pretty great.
[16:31:21] <OndraSter> I don't need sample for that
[16:35:25] <megal0maniac> :)
[16:37:46] <OndraSter> ok, anything worthy of sampling from STM?
[16:38:27] <Steffanx> Seriously OndraSter .. get some money and buy them
[16:38:34] <OndraSter> no
[16:38:36] <Steffanx> YES
[16:38:39] <OndraSter> it is not the point
[16:38:44] <OndraSter> I am thinking about some project
[16:38:49] <OndraSter> so I sample parts for it before I start building it
[16:39:02] <OndraSter> it is just that it feels weird to sample just single part :(
[16:39:16] <OndraSter> I don't want it for 1-off project.
[16:42:41] <megal0maniac> Goodnight, all
[17:22:07] <OndraSter> why do oleds require that funky voltage (15V)? :(
[17:22:21] <OndraSter> it adds more parts
[17:25:08] <tld> megal0maniac_afk: I wasn't, but I read backlogs. :)
[17:25:14] <tld> megal0maniac_afk: thanks. :)
[17:25:37] <tld> megal0maniac_afk: I have been thinking about it, but solid cat5 seems to be either as hard to get, or as expensive, as just about anything else here in Europe. :/
[19:11:11] <OndraSter> hmm vu meter
[19:11:14] <OndraSter> should not be that hard
[19:11:16] <OndraSter> with xmega
[19:11:21] <OndraSter> 2MSamples are a good thing :)
[19:12:21] <OndraSter> man, that is a brilliant idea for small pocket device
[19:12:30] <OndraSter> amplifier + equalizer + vu meter
[19:12:32] <OndraSter> small
[19:12:35] <OndraSter> on a 1" OLED :)
[19:16:43] <DanFrederiksen> :)
[19:36:47] <Casper> vu meter do not need high sampling rate
[19:37:03] <Casper> all it need is some hardware
[21:27:27] <Richard_Cavell> 'morning all
[22:17:09] <Richard_Cavell> now just so that I understand this, all fuses on an AVR can be reset, right? So they're not like fuses that blow and are permanently gone, they're just like extra bits of flash?
[22:58:21] <theBear> i'd have to double check, but definately 99% of them are changable, tho depending on how 'broken' a setting makes things, you may need a parallell style programmer (not isp) to change them back
[22:59:00] <theBear> not sure about the 'can't read code' fuse, it's used so you can't 'steal' compiled code from commercial products etc
[23:28:26] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: yes they are flash
[23:28:34] <Casper> still called fuse due to historical reasons
[23:29:25] <Casper> however some fuses might not be settable (like SPI prog disable) under some conditions
[23:31:16] <Richard_Cavell> Casper: but they can all be set and reset over and over right?
[23:31:26] <Casper> yes
[23:31:38] <Richard_Cavell> you can reset all the fuses with high voltage programming
[23:31:42] <Richard_Cavell> And I have a STK600 so I can do that any time
[23:31:54] <Richard_Cavell> you can erase the chip if the can't read code fuse is set
[23:31:59] <Richard_Cavell> so you erase all the code and reset the fuse
[23:32:28] <Casper> I am unsure about the spi prog disable fuse, but the reset disable yes
[23:33:09] <Casper> there is no data released on the fuse endurance
[23:33:25] <Casper> but I doubt they used another type of flash or eeprom
[23:33:34] <Richard_Cavell> yeah it's probably just more of that
[23:33:35] <Casper> so it's another block of one or the other
[23:33:41] <Casper> so a minimum of 10k normally
[23:34:03] <Richard_Cavell> well even if they could only be reprogrammed 100 times it would still be good for use
[23:34:14] <Richard_Cavell> I mean, seriously, I probably won't write 100 programs to an AVR in a year
[23:34:43] <Casper> you will
[23:34:54] <Casper> but not the fuses
[23:35:03] <Richard_Cavell> the chip is like a few dollars
[23:35:15] <theBear> i often used to chew up 100 programming cycles between debugging and perhaps fine-tuning a physical/optical related algorithm
[23:35:55] <Richard_Cavell> so if you have high voltage programming it's impossible to brick a chip, right?
[23:36:21] <Richard_Cavell> except maybe by writing it 10,000 times
[23:36:21] <Casper> it is still possible to brick due to a signature bug
[23:37:04] <Casper> somehow the signature can be corrupted, causing the programmer to not want to flash it since it think you want to program the wrong one
[23:37:10] <Casper> or sometime it get confused
