#avr | Logs for 2012-10-03

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[00:02:05] <Richard_Cavell> so if you have an AVR chip in one of those fancy packages like the 4-sided mega128, how do you stick that in a breadboard?
[00:02:08] <Richard_Cavell> can you convert it to DIP?
[00:02:12] <Richard_Cavell> My brain can only handle DIP
[00:02:43] <Casper> sure you can, with breakout/adapter board
[00:03:54] <Richard_Cavell> I like the idea of having like 5 or 6 ports
[00:03:59] <Richard_Cavell> lots of input/output for me
[00:04:16] <creep> Richard_Cavell<< well it would be hard to glue it using conductive glue shit, they used to solder instead
[00:05:56] <rue_bed> tom makes dip avr carriers
[00:06:03] <rue_bed> even installs the chips on em
[00:06:49] <creep> so tom is a cool dude
[00:07:23] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: you might make another sale here dude
[00:13:04] <CapnKernel> You can get breakout boards on eBay
[00:13:09] <CapnKernel> Or if you design one, I'll make it for you
[00:14:56] <Richard_Cavell> you have enough ports with those larger chips to bitbang other devices
[00:15:01] <Richard_Cavell> ones that need a "proper" 32 bit bus
[00:16:52] <CapnKernel> Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221076472618
[00:18:17] <Richard_Cavell> yeah but I need 2.54mm pitch
[00:27:58] <rue_bed> in 2 rows, not a square
[00:33:12] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[00:33:29] <Richard_Cavell> of course you can't do that with fast CPUs because the signals don't have enough time to travel the length of the wire
[00:33:34] <Richard_Cavell> but that wouldn't matter for AVR, would it?
[00:37:24] <OndraSter> 16MHz is nothing :)
[00:37:31] <OndraSter> and mega128 is ridiculously overpriced
[00:37:39] <Richard_Cavell> I want ports
[00:37:40] <OndraSter> last time i checked it was over 7 EUR
[00:37:42] <Richard_Cavell> more ports, more data
[00:37:48] <Richard_Cavell> 7 Euro
[00:37:49] <OndraSter> check my myxboard.net/boards.html
[00:37:50] <Richard_Cavell> holy moly
[00:37:56] <OndraSter> :P
[00:37:56] <Richard_Cavell> I'm gonna need to take out a mortgage
[00:38:27] <OndraSter> if you want 6 ports then xboard coco is the right one for you. Twice the clock of mega, 10 times the peripherals
[00:38:42] <OndraSter> it has even real DAC!
[00:38:49] <OndraSter> and it fits breadbaords
[00:39:12] <Richard_Cavell> DAC just feels better than PWM to me
[00:39:14] <Richard_Cavell> it just feels right
[00:39:49] <OndraSter> different usage, but yes, DAC is a nice thing
[00:40:15] <Richard_Cavell> is it not the same thing?
[00:40:32] <Richard_Cavell> If I have a 5 volt motor and I drive it at 50% PWM, isn't that the same thing as running the motor at 2.5 volts?
[00:40:47] <OndraSter> PWM is switching 0 and 1
[00:41:02] <OndraSter> DAC is generating voltage between 0V and reference
[00:41:17] <OndraSter> PWM can be made into DAC with external circuitry
[00:41:24] <Richard_Cavell> I know, but doesn't PWM sort of simulate DAC?
[00:41:27] <OndraSter> but the DAC is much faster
[00:41:39] <OndraSter> you can get 1M samples per second with DAC
[00:41:46] <OndraSter> you are glad for 100? 200? kHz PWM
[00:43:40] <OndraSter> anyway, think about the xboard - check atxmega256a3u datasheet
[00:43:49] <OndraSter> it is IMHO much better chip than mega128
[00:43:53] <OndraSter> (which I have also in one project)
[00:44:01] <OndraSter> not just IMHO, it just is :)
[00:44:11] <OndraSter> time to go to school
[00:44:23] <OndraSter> back in 4-5 hours (one lesson) lol
[01:22:39] <Richard_Cavell> So how come the Ports on my m328p start at B and not A?
[01:23:51] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac_afk: mate do you have the link to the Atmel Studio service pack? The email registration mechanism is still not working and I don't have the latest updates for Atmel Studio/STK600 firmware
[02:12:06] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Hi
[02:12:14] <Richard_Cavell> Hi hi
[02:12:59] <megal0maniac> If you're keen, there's also the atmega1284p or 644p. They're both 40pin DIP with 2 uarts and loads of flash space
[02:13:14] <megal0maniac> BUT, I got my xboard yesterday and it's awesome :)
[02:13:35] <megal0maniac> Also, it's nice to have a different platform
[02:19:01] <Richard_Cavell> well so far I haven't outgrown my m328p
[02:19:29] <megal0maniac> Me neither :P
[02:19:54] <Richard_Cavell> I'm going back to work tomorrow after a month off
[02:21:25] * Richard_Cavell doesn't want to go back to work
[02:23:37] <megal0maniac> A month off? Lucky bugger
[02:26:38] <Richard_Cavell> For my next circuit I want to use two relays and lamps
[02:27:46] <Richard_Cavell> hmmm... what kind of input/algorithm should I use?
[02:29:45] <megal0maniac> Well first off, you can't drive relays from IO pins
[02:29:55] <megal0maniac> Best and cheapest way is optocouplers
[02:29:58] <Richard_Cavell> why not?
[02:30:02] <Richard_Cavell> It's only 50 ohms
[02:30:03] <Richard_Cavell> 5 volts
[02:30:14] <megal0maniac> But check the coil current
[02:30:14] <Richard_Cavell> oh I guess I'd need 100 mA
[02:30:18] <megal0maniac> Yes
[02:30:26] <megal0maniac> That's more than 20
[02:30:57] <Richard_Cavell> well damn
[02:31:28] <megal0maniac> Also, optocouplers will isolate the relay coil from your uC, which is good because magnetics
[02:31:38] <megal0maniac> And funny voltages, potentially AC
[02:31:47] <Richard_Cavell> that's a shame
[02:31:54] <megal0maniac> So no interference
[02:32:00] <Richard_Cavell> maybe I should use a transistor instead
[02:32:22] <megal0maniac> Why not pick up a few? They're "cheap as chips"
[02:33:29] <Richard_Cavell> I don't know which ones to select
[02:33:37] <Richard_Cavell> but I'll draw out the circuit and post it online for people to advise me
[02:36:09] <megal0maniac> 4N25GV
[02:36:27] <Richard_Cavell> how necessary is it to check buttons for debouncing? The example application given with the STK600 doesn't check for debouncing
[02:37:39] <megal0maniac> Also, ULN2803. You'll like that one
[02:37:58] <megal0maniac> Depends on the button and the presser (you)
[02:38:18] <megal0maniac> Try without, then try with, compare
[02:38:34] <megal0maniac> I need it for my shitty buttons
[02:38:52] <Richard_Cavell> Yes I do like the ULN2803
[02:42:16] <megal0maniac> You can drive 8 relays from 1 chip. Or anything up to 500mA. If you want to use a voltage other than 5V, then something like the SN754410 is good
[02:43:42] <OndraSter> single transistor ftw!
[02:45:33] <megal0maniac> Single chip ftw :P
[02:46:49] <megal0maniac> "STK600 . breakout, clock generator, programmer but no debugging."
[02:47:02] <megal0maniac> Said Atmel themselves
[02:47:04] <megal0maniac> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8169.pdf
[02:47:52] <megal0maniac> I'm going to have to get a dragon. I know it...
[02:48:01] <megal0maniac> I want debugging and it's the only way
[02:48:16] <megal0maniac> Ontbyt tyd!
[02:56:05] <OndraSter> Dragon is nice
[02:56:11] <OndraSter> for $50 you can't beat it
[02:57:45] <megal0maniac> What do you use for JTAG?
[02:57:53] <OndraSter> 2x5pin cable
[02:57:58] <OndraSter> I got with... something
[02:58:01] <OndraSter> :P
[02:58:44] <megal0maniac> Oh hello. Dragon does JTAG
[02:58:50] <OndraSter> aye
[02:58:57] <OndraSter> it is awesomely cheap debugger
[02:59:08] <Richard_Cavell> STK600 does programming over JTAG
[02:59:09] <OndraSter> it requires some tweaking for the PDI though - namely the 22paf cap
[02:59:17] <OndraSter> o'rly?
[02:59:21] <OndraSter> let me see
[02:59:24] <megal0maniac> Only programming
[02:59:34] <megal0maniac> < megal0maniac> "STK600 . breakout, clock generator, programmer but no debugging."
[02:59:44] <OndraSter> over jtag?
[03:00:51] <megal0maniac> I'll need to start saving again. Girlfriend made me buy tickets for a festival which I could've gotten paid to work at :P
[03:01:08] <megal0maniac> Not sure about jtag. Looking...
[03:01:37] <OndraSter> once you are doing some bigger project you are lost without debug
[03:01:52] <megal0maniac> ISP, PDI, aWire & JTAG
[03:02:00] <OndraSter> dW
[03:02:02] <OndraSter> too
[03:02:15] <OndraSter> not TPI (hopefuly will come later)
[03:02:32] <megal0maniac> I'm talking about stk600
[03:02:35] <OndraSter> oh
[03:02:47] <OndraSter> I am talking about Dragon :)
[03:03:03] <megal0maniac> RikusW needs to get his dW implementation wirking
[03:03:13] <megal0maniac> working, rather
[03:03:46] <OndraSter> or just get that bloody dragon, it is awesome :P
[03:03:48] <OndraSter> cheap but powerful
[03:04:02] <OndraSter> it can do even HVPP/HVSP for when you break the fuses on megas :P/
[03:05:07] <Richard_Cavell> By the way those fuses - I've always thought of a fuse in terms of once it's burned, it's permanently open. But these 'fuses' can be reset, right? So that means that they're not really fuses, they're just flash that have special functions.
[03:05:33] <megal0maniac> Ever heard of a polyfuse?
[03:05:37] <OndraSter> something like that, yes
[03:05:44] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, polyfuse is not this :)
[03:06:03] <megal0maniac> I know that. It's an example :)
[03:06:04] <OndraSter> polyfuse resets /also/ when power is lost
[03:06:05] <OndraSter> k
[03:06:08] <megal0maniac> Of a resettable fuse
[03:07:22] <megal0maniac> The U2S does HVPP/HVSP, but the JTAG is the JTAGICE MKI and dW isn't finished yet. So I don't have any debugging capabilities
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> not anything that would work with xmega either way :P
[03:09:06] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: What is the maximum speed I could clock xboard at, with an external crystal
[03:09:06] <megal0maniac> Still 32mhz?
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> external xtal is allowed upto 16MHz only
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> or something like that
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> check datasheet
[03:09:06] <megal0maniac> But then there's the multiplier
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> I'd say use 2 or 4MHz one and then PLL :)
[03:09:06] <OndraSter> yes
[03:09:09] <OndraSter> on Ultra I am thinking about putting on some 4 or 2MHz one
[03:09:15] <megal0maniac> So what, do you think, is the most you could get it to?
[03:09:25] <OndraSter> 64MHz stable... not sure how much the peripherals
[03:10:04] <OndraSter> core can go very high
[03:10:14] <OndraSter> but not sure how about EEPROM and others
[03:10:42] <megal0maniac> Well apparently you can get up to 128mhz PWM, but core is rated at 32mhz
[03:10:51] <megal0maniac> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8169.pdf
[03:10:58] <OndraSter> the PLL is upto 128MHz
[03:11:20] <OndraSter> wow
[03:11:44] <megal0maniac> And that's without external xtal :)
[03:11:50] <OndraSter> aye
[03:11:57] <megal0maniac> Probably wouldn't go past 64mhz for core, though
[03:11:58] <OndraSter> with internal oscillators you can get to 0.5% precision
[03:12:05] <OndraSter> I had core at 80MHz still blinking LEDs :)
[03:12:41] <megal0maniac> What is mine running at currently? 32mhz?
[03:12:55] <OndraSter> that depends what you programmed it with
[03:13:00] <megal0maniac> Haven't
[03:13:01] <Richard_Cavell> What's the most CPU-intensive application that people give to an AVR? Driving an LCD display?
[03:13:03] <OndraSter> the default code switches to 32MHz
[03:13:22] <OndraSter> Richard_Cavell, I was driving 3072 LEDs
[03:13:33] <OndraSter> about 2kB of code (asm)
[03:13:40] <Richard_Cavell> how did you attach them all to the AVR?
[03:13:41] <CapnKernel> OndraSter's app is pretty intense. And besides, his code can't stop or it will fry LEDs
[03:13:43] <Richard_Cavell> some kind of multiplexing?
[03:13:53] <OndraSter> serial LED drivers
[03:13:58] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Nothing does. AVRs are inherently chilled
[03:14:01] <CapnKernel> Some people have decoded MP3 with AVR
[03:14:09] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, that's why I have there few security stuff
[03:14:16] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, usually using external mp3 decoders :D
[03:14:22] <OndraSter> you just feed it raw mp3 data
[03:15:01] <megal0maniac> sigma delta, yo
[03:15:05] <OndraSter> no
[03:15:08] <CapnKernel> If you are talking bat-shit insane, an AVR has been used to emulate a 32-bit Linux box: http://dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.%20Linux%20on%208bit
[03:15:15] <megal0maniac> That's afterwards
[03:15:35] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: I'm talking software decode. It's been done.
[03:15:41] <OndraSter> :o
[03:15:44] <OndraSter> crazy
[03:18:29] <Richard_Cavell> Okay guys so I'm reading the STK600 manual and I've completed the AVR tutorial I linked. Anything else I need to do?
[03:19:41] <megal0maniac> CapnKernel: This linux emu thing is INSANE
[03:19:55] <CapnKernel> Told ya
[03:20:15] <OndraSter> how did the AVR cope with the mp3?
[03:20:23] <OndraSter> overclocked xmega could be a nice try :P
[03:22:35] <CapnKernel> Here's another thing that has to be seen/heard to be believed: http://www.linusakesson.net/scene/craft/
[03:22:59] <megal0maniac> Ah yes, seen that
[03:23:03] <megal0maniac> Very cool
[03:23:43] <Richard_Cavell> yes, it is
[03:25:10] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: DX order shipped today
[03:25:29] <megal0maniac> Is that the part which takes forever, or the actual getting here?
[03:25:51] <OndraSter> interesting
[03:25:58] <OndraSter> last time I ordered it took them 1 month nefore they shipped it
[03:27:45] <megal0maniac> How long did it take to get to you?
[03:27:55] <OndraSter> sometimes a week, sometimes a month
[03:29:15] <megal0maniac> Think ima save up for that dragon
[03:29:34] <megal0maniac> jtagice3 looks nice, but expensive
[03:29:47] <megal0maniac> cheaper than one or mkII, but expensive still
[03:29:57] <OndraSter> it is
[03:30:01] <OndraSter> and it supports less chips than dragon
[03:30:07] <OndraSter> but it has better output drivers
[03:34:34] <megal0maniac> But I'm cheap, so... :)
[03:34:45] <megal0maniac> I'm off. Time for some things
[03:34:47] <megal0maniac> bb
[03:34:50] <OndraSter> bb
[03:46:42] <OndraSter> I am off home in 10 mins
[03:46:43] <OndraSter> bb
[05:36:34] <Richard_Cavell> Does anyone here understand how the 32-bit AVRs manage to use the same Studio toolchain and STK600 as the 8-bits?
[05:36:42] <OndraSter> they do not
[05:36:43] <OndraSter> :)
[05:36:46] <Richard_Cavell> surely they'd be sufficiently architecturally different to warrant a whole different process
[05:37:12] <OndraSter> if you check program files\atmel\atmel studio 6\extensions\avrgcc then there is both for 32bit and 8bit AVRs
[05:37:14] <OndraSter> there are*
[05:37:16] <OndraSter> toolchains
[05:38:22] <Richard_Cavell> yeah
[05:38:33] <Richard_Cavell> Do 32-bit AVRs have any type of OS on them?
[05:38:37] <Richard_Cavell> Or is it entirely up to the programmer?
[05:38:45] <Richard_Cavell> 32-bit AVRs are powerful enough to run Linux
[05:39:29] <Horologium> some of the higher end 32bit avr chips do run linux.
[05:39:51] <Horologium> as I recall, the stk1000 and later versions actually come with linux and a little LCD display.
[05:43:10] <karlp> http://www.atmel.com/tools/MATURENGW100NETWORKGATEWAYKIT.aspx has an openwrt port
[05:43:32] <karlp> hell, they even provide a BSP for it themselves
[05:56:25] <Horologium> not sure what a BSP is, but, that board looks fun.
[05:59:47] <karlp> only if you really must have an avr32
[06:00:03] <karlp> you can buy a pile of consumer electronics router platforms for that much money
[06:52:34] <Kevin`> not a very large pile, but I suppose a pile. it's really not too bad if you need custom io
[07:16:14] <JyZyXEL> by default IO pins are inputs with no internal pullup?
[07:16:32] <Kevin`> JyZyXEL: most of them, yes
[07:17:20] <vectory> after boot they are in 3 state high impedance iirc
[07:17:28] <JyZyXEL> isn't that the same thing?
[07:18:03] <JyZyXEL> whats the correct configuration for a ADC pin?
[07:18:21] <CapnKernel> What do you mean by "correct"?
[07:18:50] <CapnKernel> I've used ADC on pins that are input with and without pullup
[07:19:08] <JyZyXEL> i guess the correct one is to use it without a pullup
[07:19:45] <JyZyXEL> because your measuring the voltage of a resistive divider and if you have a pullup mixed with that your gonna get wrong values
[07:27:11] <CapnKernel> Being able to switch the pullup in and out is extremely useful when you're reading a resistive touchscreen.
[07:27:24] <CapnKernel> Plus being able to switch a pin between input and output
[07:28:28] <theBear> i'm stilll very fond of the old r-c a-d trick, i suppose internal pullup could do, but i like series style, then maybe a pot or thermal whatsit to a rail
[07:29:36] <CapnKernel> Search for AVR341, it's very interesting.
[07:32:15] <vectory> theBear: whats that?
[07:33:30] <vectory> i dont get why avr341 is named doc8091pdf, that is so senseless
[07:33:44] <vectory> *.pdf ofc
[07:35:04] <theBear> vectory, erm, say you got a series c-r-gnd from a tristate pin... even an array/matrix of them.... charge for x*2 time, be sure they charged, then for x*1 time sample them regularly, alternated with low output for a MOMENT... larger resistance = longer time before the pin reads a low again.... repeat.. you can EASILY matrix 6*6 pots or similar, AND read them all 100's even 1000's of times a second, including multiple 'samples' aka digital lowpassing for a
[07:35:05] <theBear> ccuracy
[07:36:19] <theBear> when i did the 36-pot project ('real job') a few years back, i was AMAZED at the resolution/accuracy i could get with a single avr, a few caps, and a bunch of pots, mighta been some diodes involved too, but i don't think so
[07:52:58] <vectory> theBear: thats interesting, thanx
[08:09:15] <tld> No reason I can't use a normal 16x2 LCD through a SIPO shiftreg?
[08:25:01] <Blecha> tld yeah
[08:25:14] <Blecha> sometimes you read data from the LCD
[08:25:31] <Tom_itx> when?
[08:25:41] <tld> Hmm, good point…
[08:25:45] <Blecha> Idk about character lcds really but with the graphic lcd i wanted to that with needed two way
[08:25:59] <Tom_itx> graphic would be different
[08:26:01] <tld> I don't think I need reading for this though.
[08:26:12] <Blecha> Yeah, so long as you aren't reading data its fine.
[08:26:32] <Tom_itx> that's almost never on a txt lcd
[08:26:34] <Blecha> does it have a busy/wait signal or anything?
[08:27:20] <tld> Don't think so.
[08:28:32] <tld> Note to self; shift reg for write-only, perhaps one of the fatter attiny-things for read/write.
[08:31:23] <tld> thanks. :)
[08:33:37] <Blecha> yep, i made the mistake with a GLCD ended up saving my pins by shifting out to the keypad pins instead :D
[08:34:00] <Blecha> Was a fun exercise in matrixing and shift registers
[08:34:54] <tld> bidirectional i2c port extender could be a thought as well I suppose… hmm.
[09:30:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Blecha: Tom_itx: 16x2 character LCDs have a ready flag which you can read, but it isn't needed usually, iirc. I've driven one with a shift register just fine
[09:32:07] <megal0maniac> Bloody striking workers. Setting trucks alight and throwing rocks at cars. Nearly got hit.
[09:33:10] <vectory> dafuck?
[09:33:15] <tld> dafuck?
[09:33:24] <megal0maniac> Not exactly a common occurrence, but yeah...
[09:33:31] * tld is tempted to officially become anti-union at times.
[09:33:36] <megal0maniac> It's 16:20 here and I just got home for lunch
[09:33:44] <vsync_> sweden?
[09:33:47] <megal0maniac> ZA
[09:33:51] <megal0maniac> Sorry to say it
[09:33:53] <vsync_> wtf is za
[09:34:23] <megal0maniac> South Africa
[09:34:35] <megal0maniac> Acronym came from Dutch
[09:34:35] <vsync_> oh south africa? I thought it was rsa but i guess the tld is za?
[09:35:09] <vsync_> zuid africa or something, apparently =D
[09:35:09] <tld> huh? I'm not za.
[09:35:11] <tld> (kidding)
[09:35:15] <megal0maniac> Correct
[09:35:29] <vsync_> man dutch is f'd up language :) It's like a mix of all the mid-european languages =D
[09:35:33] <vsync_> except for maybe italy lol
[09:35:33] <creep> h
[09:35:39] <tld> A friend of a friend actually moved to .za (from Norway).
[09:35:58] <megal0maniac> I'm just irritated because I was hungry
[09:36:16] <vsync_> riots and south africa just brings district 9 to mind
[09:36:18] <vsync_> kekekek
[09:37:20] <vsync_> megal0maniac: so your native lang is umm afrikaans?
[09:37:37] <tld> watching district 9 made south african riots come to mind.
[09:37:40] <megal0maniac> Nope, English
[09:37:53] <tld> megal0maniac: where are you from? .za originally, or did you move there?
[09:38:24] <tld> brb
[09:38:26] <megal0maniac> English is one of the official languages :) In Cape Town, it's the most common language (amongst whites)
[09:38:31] <megal0maniac> Was born here
[09:38:51] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/LyjI9.jpg
[09:38:53] <vsync_> yeah i was under the impression that english is one of the official languages in rsa
[09:39:07] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/LnzPG.jpg
[09:39:50] <vsync_> there's afrikaans, english, umm dutch? And then some minority languages?
[09:39:52] <megal0maniac> F**king terrorists. They call them striking workers, but they aren't any different
[09:39:57] <megal0maniac> No dutch
[09:40:03] <vsync_> okay :)
[09:40:18] <megal0maniac> Afrikaans, English, and then 9 "native" languages
[09:40:24] <creep> megal0maniac<< you are a white english in africa?
[09:40:31] <megal0maniac> isiXhosa, isiZulu etc
[09:40:37] <megal0maniac> creep: Yes
[09:40:53] <megal0maniac> In my city, most of the white people are english
[09:41:02] <megal0maniac> Not where RikusW is though :)
[09:41:21] <creep> megal0maniac<< i thought there are only black there (apart from those who go there to work or safari)
[09:42:17] <vsync_> man, always wanted to visit cape town. But i've fantasized about it as being this old-timey pirate port. My dreams are all a-shattered
[09:42:27] <creep> i'd rather go to some cold country
[09:42:35] <vsync_> well come around here
[09:43:04] <megal0maniac> vsync_: It is pretty amazing, most of the time. This sort of thing is not an everyday occurence. I'm 20 and I've never witnessed it before
[09:43:27] <megal0maniac> Go to the waterfront, you won't be disappointed
[09:43:51] <vsync_> that'd be really cool =) No way I can afford the flights at the moment, but some day I will go there
[09:44:13] <creep> vsync_<< do you like xxotic diseases, and viruses?
[09:44:18] <creep> *exotic
[09:44:24] <tld> creep: Norway is cold, and we need more geeks. :-P
[09:44:39] <creep> tld<< cool, are there cute girls?
[09:44:44] <tld> creep: Yes.
[09:44:55] <creep> show some in pm <;
[09:45:03] <vsync_> creep I don't think the risk of catching any really harmful stuff apart from the usual diarrhea and sorts by the change in environment is really that much bigger in cape town than for say in the canary islands
[09:45:36] <creep> diseases like warm weather btw
[09:45:45] <vsync_> creep: Finland. Come here and you'll bust your balls during the winter chills. And if the upcoming winter is anything like the past two we've had there'll be way too much snow
[09:45:53] <vectory> whats with moscitoes contracting aids, can that actually happen?
[09:46:04] <megal0maniac> Lol no
[09:46:24] <creep> vectory<< sure, its blood
[09:46:29] <vsync_> creep: I've been doing a fair share of travelling. Just get yourself vaccinated and avoid the street food
[09:46:50] <tld> creep: https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1549&bih=936&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Norwegian+girls&btnG=
[09:46:52] <vsync_> If you want to avoid warm places just because of the diseases well you might aswell live in a plastic bubble
[09:47:09] <creep> no, i like cool places.
[09:47:10] <vsync_> not saying i'm going to the amazon to get myself malaria but hey, you gotta draw the line somewhere
[09:47:21] <creep> 25-27C at most.
[09:47:27] <vsync_> HAH
[09:47:35] <vsync_> man
[09:47:40] <vsync_> that's NOT cold
[09:47:57] <creep> *at most
[09:48:01] <megal0maniac> I really love it here. Which is why I'm disappointed when things like this happen
[09:48:08] <megal0maniac> It's a great tourist destination
[09:48:13] <vsync_> during the last few winters it's been weeks for -20-30 C
[09:48:15] <megal0maniac> But this shit puts it in a bad light
[09:48:28] <vsync_> here in finland that is
[09:48:40] <megal0maniac> Anyway, off to work. Be back in a few.
[09:49:11] <vsync_> and i live in southern finland, nothern up it gets colder. Well not under -30 mostly ever but. Still cold.
[09:49:41] <vsync_> so creep i'd like for you to come here in the winter and spend a few weeks here, and then revise your opinion about "cold"
[09:51:51] <megal0maniac_afk> Never goes below 0 here :)
[09:52:00] <megal0maniac_afk> And seldom above 30
[09:52:23] <vsync_> it's so funny cause summer's approaching there whereas winter's coming up here
[09:52:42] <megal0maniac_afk> Anyone look at those image links?
[09:52:48] <megal0maniac_afk> With the burning truck
[09:52:56] <vsync_> yep
[09:53:12] <vectory> showed em around, quoting you :)
[09:53:22] <megal0maniac_afk> Lol
[09:53:35] <megal0maniac_afk> I shouldn't have posted that. Nobody will ever come here :P
[09:53:48] <megal0maniac_afk> Mkay cheers
[09:54:29] <creep> vsync_<< i have already settled
[09:54:40] <vectory> i suppose the blazing trucks belong to workers refusing to strike
[09:54:52] <creep> vsync_<< so what is the minimum temp there?
[09:55:55] <creep> vsync_<< get ready for warming up anyway...
[09:58:01] <creep> ah i'm done ;<
[10:01:35] <creep> what controls do you recommend for a joystick board? 2 axis, 4 buttons, and 2 trimming digital pots?
[10:03:51] <tld> creep: joystick to control what?
[10:04:01] <creep> [163629] <vsync_> during the last few winters it's been weeks for -20-30 C << i don't care if its 15-20C inside
[10:04:10] <creep> tld<< an aeroplane
[10:04:18] <creep> helicopter
[10:04:40] <tld> what about using a real joystick?
[10:04:42] <creep> not sure if i should put third axis
[10:05:19] <creep> for throttle, and pedals should be separate device i think to reduce lag and increase flexibility
[10:05:43] <creep> tld<< you think if i make one it will be imaginary?
[10:06:36] <tld> erhm, bad phrasing on my part, sorry. ;)
[10:06:50] <tld> I meant instead of making one, what about using a good old gameport-type joystick?
[10:07:05] <vsync_> well creep for that matter, you can achieve that with air conditioning even in a warmer country :)
[10:07:09] <tld> was just a stray thought on my part.
[10:07:19] <vsync_> and you really do care if you can't order takeout every day :)
[10:07:32] <creep> hmm, well i bought an usb joystick and its unusable with that huge hardware and even larger software deadzone
[10:08:14] <tld> that's why I'm thinking of the gameport-type, which are just pots and buttons, but gives you a nice form-factor to it, yet it's easy to use.
[10:08:42] <creep> problem is, i still need to attach it to usb ;)
[10:08:52] <creep> if i want to use it for computer
[10:09:26] <tld> well, all the software deadzone would be alive for one thing.
[10:09:38] <tld> you could feed it to the PC any way you'd like.
[10:09:42] <creep> since gameport is unsupported and outdated
[10:10:01] <tld> you get both USB-adapters, and you could roll your own, if you'd like something more specific.
[10:10:07] <creep> gameport would still live if it were a few real adcs
[10:10:55] <tld> I've got something similar to this, which I'm planning on using for a project: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-INNOVATIONS-TERMINATOR-DB25-GAMEPORT-IBM-JOYSTICK-FOR-COMPUTER-/110857305758?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item19cf9c3e9e
[10:13:34] <creep> tld<< actually i can make a metal gimbal construction for a joystick with ultra-precision bearings, and hall potmeters with 0-5V range
[10:14:00] <creep> so i have the joystick part, but i would like to use the thing for simulator on pc too
[10:26:52] <molavy> hi
[10:27:41] <molavy> i have 5 ov2640 image sensor and i want connect it to pc using usb
[10:27:48] <molavy> how can i do this?
[10:27:51] <JyZyXEL> if (fet) FET_PORT |= (1<<FET_BIT); else FET_PORT &= ~(1<<FET_BIT);
[10:27:58] <JyZyXEL> can anyone figure out anytihng more clever than that?
[10:29:53] <molavy> any idea?
[10:30:44] <creep> sure, add tmp = 1<<FET_BIT;
[10:31:19] <JyZyXEL> wait how would that help?
[10:31:20] <creep> and you can use it as tmp multipme times
[10:32:20] <creep> or use ASM and find instructions best suited for your problem
[10:32:31] <creep> C is universal...
[10:35:36] <Essobi> So I've got SPI working but it's doing something odd...
[10:35:43] <JyZyXEL> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=rf0zTG9e
[10:35:59] <JyZyXEL> thats the code i was wondering if i can "optimize" it
[10:36:01] <JyZyXEL> row count wise
[10:37:42] <Essobi> The last byte of the previous message seems to show up as the first byte of the next transmission.
[10:37:54] <megal0maniac> Trailing string!
[10:38:08] <megal0maniac> tobbor has (had) one of those
[10:38:14] <megal0maniac> hi tobbor
[10:38:22] <megal0maniac> hi
[10:38:22] <molavy> there is no idea?
[10:39:20] <megal0maniac> molavy: Put a microcontroller in between. Program it with a USB stack (maybe CDC serial) and the information necessary to transfer sensor data to a pc in a useable format
[10:39:22] <creep> JyZyXEL<< use the bitmasks as constant...
[10:40:15] <JyZyXEL> oh yeah
[10:40:16] <creep> you can name your ... LED=1<<LED_BIT;
[10:40:31] <JyZyXEL> that also works for the ^= ?
[10:40:34] <molavy> megal0maniac, is there any tutorial how can i do this?
[10:40:42] <creep> yes
[10:40:53] <molavy> i have at91sam7x256 and LPC1768
[10:41:30] <creep> 1 xor 1 = 0, 0 xor 0 = 0
[10:41:39] <megal0maniac> molavy: What have you managed to do with your at91sam7x256 so far?
[10:42:32] <molavy> lightup a led
[10:42:54] <creep> burn it?
[10:43:02] <JyZyXEL> i would need to create constants for each led
[10:43:04] <molavy> but with atmega32 connect it to some sensor and character LCD
[10:43:09] <JyZyXEL> like #define BLINK_RED
[10:43:17] <megal0maniac> If you don't know the basics, then you can't expect to quickly write some complex code. You may as well talk to the microcontroller and expect the same result
[10:45:41] <Essobi> Do 328ps have a required size for a SPI frame?
[10:46:04] <megal0maniac> Not that I'm aware of
[10:47:36] <OndraSter> my at91sam7x512 was running multi-client TCP/IP server :P
[10:47:50] <OndraSter> .NET Micro Framework :P
[10:48:52] <molavy> megal0maniac, i am using this header board for lpc1768
[10:48:53] <molavy> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Feshop.eca.ir%2Fproduct_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D876
[10:49:10] <megal0maniac> Essobi: Looking at the datasheet, I see there are two valid frame formats. 8bit with MSB first and 8bit with LSB first
[10:49:33] <OndraSter> aye
[10:50:17] <molavy> megal0maniac, i want connect ov1768 to PC via USB
[10:50:41] <molavy> can i do this using LPC1768
[10:50:53] <molavy> if i can ,how?
[10:51:14] <molavy> any guide or links that help in this subject
[10:54:34] <megal0maniac> molavy: Not here. Have you searched?
[10:54:47] <megal0maniac> Essobi: 16-bit data transfer can be achieved by writing two data bytes to UDRn. A UART transmit com- plete interrupt will then signal that the 16-bit value has been shifted out.
[10:55:39] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Took xboard to work, but no way to pull E5 low :)
[10:56:40] <Essobi> megal0maniac: Ah, it's not the size I'm worried about. I'm trying to figure out why my BYTES are all off by one.
[10:56:47] <Essobi> megal0maniac: Wonder if it's a kernel bug.
[10:57:53] <Essobi> Right now, I'm just doing a loop back with send/receive.. AVR as a slave, RPI as a master. It's working, but the last byte of the transmission, doesn't show up on the reply, but shows up as the first byte on the next transmission.
[10:58:21] <molavy> a lot, i search and reading book and document about 2 month , at first i want connect TCM8240MD because of low price with no success after 1.5 month, so i search and find OV2640 that is more standard and have available and easier connector's
[10:58:59] <creep> JyZyXEL<< i'd just make a function that sets or resets the bit for parameter...
[10:58:59] <molavy> but i don't now how and where to start
[10:59:29] <JyZyXEL> creep: what about toggle?
[10:59:43] <creep> set(LED1); toggle(fet); reset(LED2);
[11:00:34] <JyZyXEL> but now i can do: output_set(ON, ON, BLINK);
[11:00:54] <creep> blink is another problem
[11:02:58] <molavy> megal0maniac,i bought Acid and raw board with a special pen for drawing circuit, can connect OV2640 to breadboard
[11:03:13] <molavy> but what must i do after that
[11:03:36] <JyZyXEL> creep: well heres my whole code: http://pastebin.com/9GCL13Zp
[11:04:57] <JyZyXEL> covnerted tabs to spaces: http://pastebin.com/TARsYTgi
[11:05:22] <megal0maniac> molavy: Just look for as many beginner examples as you can for that board / architecture. You need to figure out the simple stuff first. It isn't a great board for someone who hasn't worked with microcontrollers before, as it's complicated
[11:06:44] <creep> JyZyXEL<< what will this be ? ESC with LVC ?
[11:07:33] <molavy> megal0maniac, yes , i know that is very hard, can you give me just some keyword that help me about finding resource in this subject
[11:07:40] <molavy> ?
[11:08:29] <creep> JyZyXEL<< well if you don't do anything else while blinking then its simple, just delay and toggle portmask in loop
[11:11:22] <molavy> megal0maniac, i can using any mobile image sensor with higher than 1.3MP resolution , if you know about mobile image sensor that can setup and launch fast using ARM or AVR tell me about it
[11:18:16] <megal0maniac> molavy: I have no idea how to interface a camera sensor to an ARM
[11:19:05] <molavy> megal0maniac, thanks for your patient and answers
[11:19:35] <megal0maniac> Again, you need to learn the basics. You can't just start plugging cameras into 32bit processors and expecting it to work. Even with a tutorial or guide, this is complicated, so such a guide will assume a fairly advanced knowledge of programming and electronics
[11:20:49] <megal0maniac> molavy: Learn to blink an LED, learn to read pin states and transmit over serial. Read the sensor's datasheet. That kind of thing
[11:22:16] <Kevin`> from what i've observed, the interface and camera are designed for each other and neither is well documented, or easily available
[11:22:31] <Kevin`> if I were you i'd pick something besides consumer hardware to fiddle with
[11:23:56] <JyZyXEL> creep: yes thats what im doing, but it was just trying to figure out the neatest way of implementing it
[11:24:29] <JyZyXEL> with least amount of repetition
[11:24:31] <megal0maniac> In fact, the block diagram for the camera has "microcontroller" inside the box. And it uses an SCCP protocol, which doesn't sound at all familiar
[11:25:39] <creep> image sensors need some bandwidth for data transfer
[11:25:55] <creep> and you might want some ram storing images
[11:38:50] <molavy> megal0maniac, thanks again
[11:47:46] <megal0maniac> molavy: sure. just start with the simple stuff. what you're trying to do is probably unachievable by most of the people on this channel. you're just going to get frustrated
[11:48:12] <megal0maniac> Can anyone explain this idiocy? http://i.imgur.com/UC2BB.png
[11:48:41] <megal0maniac> "Okay, you've told me not to get drivers online, but just hang on while I finish looking for drivers online"
[11:48:58] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Paper clip :)
[11:49:01] <megal0maniac> We have DFU
[11:53:35] <Blecha> megal0maniac lookes like you have an operating system issue
[11:53:57] <Blecha> What kernel are you running?
[11:54:52] <megal0maniac> Blecha: 7? :P
[11:55:04] <megal0maniac> Na, it's normal behaviour. It's just dumb
[11:56:03] <Blecha> theres your problem, you have been scammed by that bill gates guy
[11:56:12] <Blecha> dont feel bad, he tricked lots of people
[11:56:46] <megal0maniac> It gives you a hyperlink style thing to click on, saying "Skip obtaining drivers from Windows Update" while it searches for drivers online. But when you click it, it doesn't abort. Which I've seen many times, I just thought I'd share my feelings
[12:06:31] <Kevin`> it's windows, it's always been like that. although later versions are getting worse.. google the magic number to find out what the problem is is my favorite hate
[12:07:27] <Blecha> Kevin' as in illegal numbers?
[12:07:43] <megal0maniac> 256? :)
[12:08:06] <megal0maniac> Is that still a limitation in 7?
[12:08:42] <Kevin`> Blecha: error codes used in place of messages. microsoft even includes a helpful link in the UI to google their own discussion forums for random suggestions to fix the error, instead of actually saying what it means
[12:09:00] <Blecha> oh yeah, i hate that crap
[12:09:31] <Blecha> If there are any words its usually cryptic and not helpful. "Failed to load multiple DLLs"
[12:09:35] <Blecha> cool... which ones?
[12:10:47] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Hey
[12:17:48] <RikusW> hi megal0maniac
[12:18:09] * RikusW built a levelconverter today, and its much smaller than yours :-P
[12:18:45] <vectory> pics or didnt happen
[12:18:52] <megal0maniac> pics or didnt happen
[12:18:59] <RikusW> uploading
[12:19:02] <megal0maniac> What for? :)
[12:19:18] <megal0maniac> RikusW: http://i.imgur.com/LyjI9l.jpg
[12:19:23] <RikusW> smallest 4 channel level converter competition ? :-P
[12:19:47] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I would lose, but willing to participate
[12:20:05] <RikusW> mine is 6x4 holes
[12:20:16] <megal0maniac> I'd solder components to one another :)
[12:20:27] <RikusW> it will become messy ;)
[12:20:29] <megal0maniac> Blimey, that's tiny
[12:21:15] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Some people were surprised earlier that I was a white, english guy in South Africa. :P
[12:22:02] <vectory> megal0maniac: you prolly have a european name, too, right?
[12:22:06] <RikusW> I'm a white Afrikaans guy
[12:22:23] <megal0maniac> Michael
[12:22:26] <RikusW> http://imgur.com/X3etn
[12:22:32] <vectory> although, rikus isnt that european at all, i ment the last name
[12:22:42] <RikusW> I'll cry if I have to replace on of those mosfets....
[12:22:52] <megal0maniac> Heh. Impressive :)
[12:22:55] <RikusW> I'm of German decent
[12:22:58] <vectory> megal0maniac: as german as it can probbably get :)
[12:23:23] <megal0maniac> And I'm of British descent. Surname is Scottish
[12:23:26] <RikusW> at the left is 2 100nf 0603 caps too
[12:23:39] <megal0maniac> RikusW: You see that truck pic? The strikes are getting bad
[12:23:45] <RikusW> the 09C resistors is 12k like on the U2S
[12:24:21] <RikusW> was that in CT ?
[12:24:43] <RikusW> those guys are going crazy intimidating others :S
[12:24:47] <megal0maniac> Yeah, N2 today. And they were throwing rocks at a van. Nearly hit us
[12:25:01] <RikusW> ugh
[12:25:15] * RikusW is far far away from all that :)
[12:25:31] <megal0maniac> Think I should come and visit :/
[12:27:49] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I hope your nano isn't stuck somewhere because of the strikes....
[12:32:00] <RikusW> vectory: I'm called Rikus but my actual names are Mattheus Hendrikus Wessels
[12:32:28] <RikusW> and my mothers maiden name is Lexow
[12:32:47] <RikusW> so I'm German on both sides
[12:33:33] <RikusW> however after quite a few generations I'm sure there is other Europeans involved too
[12:33:41] <vectory> whichever part of germany that would be :P
[12:34:16] <vectory> my grandparents were born in whats now poland and czech. prussian back then anyway
[12:34:51] <vectory> or so i would think, "dont know much about history" *sing*
[12:38:14] <RikusW> vectory: our farm is called Mecklenburg afaik there is a town in Germany called that too ;)
[12:38:29] <RikusW> the neigboring farm is called Amsterdam....
[12:38:36] <Amadiro> woop! samples from atmel arrived
[12:40:31] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I used a prototyping board from mantech thats got squares instead of strips like veroboard
[12:40:48] <megal0maniac> I saw that. Some places call it "protoboard"
[12:40:55] <megal0maniac> I guess it has its uses
[12:40:58] <RikusW> then cut a few in half to make the sot23's fit
[12:41:19] <RikusW> cutting it in half makes an exact fit for SOIC
[12:41:51] <Amadiro> RikusW, mecklenburg is more like a state in germany
[12:42:00] <Amadiro> well, it's called "mecklenburg-vorpommern"
[12:42:11] <Amadiro> I think
[12:42:45] <RikusW> I cut it with a stanley knife, using multiple cuts/scratching on both sides and then bending to break
[12:43:01] <RikusW> its FR4 (fibreglass) so quite hard to break....
[12:43:22] <RikusW> Amadiro: theres a town in Germany called Lexow too...
[12:44:30] <RikusW> Amadiro: it seems that SA is full of European names
[12:44:42] <Amadiro> RikusW, SA?
[12:44:50] <RikusW> South Africa
[12:45:00] <Amadiro> Ah. Especially dutch, I imagine
[12:45:04] <RikusW> and I live about 80km from Bethlehem too....
[12:45:24] <vectory> ^^
[12:45:43] <vectory> and you have a barn
[12:45:46] <megal0maniac> xboard time!
[12:46:32] <Essobi> RikusW: what's crackin
[12:46:46] <megal0maniac> protoboard blocks :P
[12:47:13] <RikusW> Essobi: built a level converter this morning :) the pic link is above ^^^
[12:47:31] <RikusW> the detail on google earth is amazing these days you can even see cattle and fences :)
[12:47:44] <RikusW> though I don't use it with GPRS.... :S
[12:48:13] <RikusW> Essobi: http://imgur.com/X3etn
[12:48:54] <RikusW> megal0maniac: and the LV side is at the top
[12:49:45] <Essobi> RikusW: nice. :D
[12:50:13] <Essobi> RikusW: I got my AVR to the RPI on a board all proper now. Need more headers to finish it thou.
[12:50:14] <RikusW> I used 2n7002
[12:50:39] <RikusW> I'll need to make a pcb for my GTL2000DL chips sometime
[12:50:56] <Blecha> Anyone see the news about the ARM arduino?
[12:50:57] <Essobi> RikusW: It's doing some weird shit thou... the trailing byte in the SPI stream I'm sending, doesn't get returned until the next transmission as the leading byte. It's strange.
[12:50:58] <RikusW> its a 20 channel level converter with 0.65mm pitch...
[12:51:10] <Essobi> Blecha: It's an arm. woopie.
[12:51:26] <RikusW> Essobi: thats the way SPI works
[12:51:43] <RikusW> send a last null char to get the last byte
[12:52:09] <RikusW> SPI tx and rx is done at the same time, its a 8 bit shift register
[12:52:22] <Blecha> Essobi yeah, i dont know why you would even want the ide for that
[12:52:36] <megal0maniac> Paul (who made Teensy 1 and 2) has now made Teensy3, which is also ARM based, and fully Arduino supported
[12:52:41] <RikusW> imagine two shift registers, one in each IC, the contents are swapped when transmitting
[12:53:36] <Essobi> RikusW: Wait... what? That's how it works? It always offsets the frame by 1 byte? O_o
[12:53:44] <RikusW> yes
[12:53:50] <Essobi> RikusW: I'm running that loopback code on the AVR I showed you.
[12:54:03] <RikusW> the slave cannot transmit, it waits for the master
[12:55:01] <Essobi> RikusW: Right... I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying.
[12:55:10] <RikusW> but if you put the byte to be transmitted in the slave tx buffer before the master transmits it should solve your problem
[12:55:31] <Essobi> Fuck.. pi is locked up at home and I'm at work. I guess I knocked the SD card loose again. :(
[12:55:53] <Essobi> RikusW: So rpi is master, avr is slave.
[12:56:09] <Essobi> crap.. hang on.. food just showed up.
[13:00:04] <Essobi> Mmmm.
[13:03:33] <Essobi> Okay... I send 0xDE 0xAD 0xBE 0xEF... the AVR is set to take the ingress buffer and send the exact same thing back out.
[13:04:17] <Essobi> Instead of getting the same thing back, I get 0x00 0xDE 0xAD 0xBE
[13:05:03] <RikusW> so you take the received byte and immediately transmits it ?
[13:05:11] <RikusW> that explains the offset
[13:05:33] <RikusW> transmit some other value on the AVR before going into the loop
[13:05:45] <RikusW> then 0x00 will be replaced by that value
[13:06:14] <Kevin`> Essobi: spi transmits in both directions at the same time. while the host is transmitting DE the avr is transmitting 00
[13:06:30] <Kevin`> (or whatever was set to be transmitted)
[13:06:43] <Essobi> Oh... I get it. :D
[13:06:51] <Kevin`> some devices do nothing with the first byte, others put status info there
[13:06:59] <RikusW> in short its a shift register loop, split between two chips
[13:10:55] <Essobi> So send a nell at the end to get the whole message?
[13:18:02] <Essobi> Sorry... Derpy moment. that makes complete sense.
[13:22:57] <RikusW> if both sides must be able to transmit at any time UART is the better choice
[13:23:07] <RikusW> though you can add an irq line
[13:30:37] * megal0maniac looks at xboard
[13:30:42] <megal0maniac> What now?...
[13:30:52] <megal0maniac> So many peripherals
[13:31:38] * megal0maniac wonders if he can make a "blinky" program which works while the CPU core sleeps...
[13:32:30] <RikusW> use a timer ?
[13:32:38] <RikusW> that will even work in mega ;)
[13:32:44] <Kevin`> yeah, that should be pretty easy
[13:33:07] <megal0maniac> I've been avoiding actually learning C :P
[13:33:23] <RikusW> learn asm instead :-P
[13:34:49] <megal0maniac> Not a bad idea :P
[13:37:51] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'm probably going to end up getting an avr dragon
[13:38:28] <Kevin`> good idea, it's a nice thing to have
[13:38:39] <RikusW> because of PDI ?
[13:38:50] <RikusW> then you can debug too :)
[13:38:59] <megal0maniac> PDI, debugwire, jtag...
[13:39:04] <megal0maniac> But all debugging
[13:39:43] <megal0maniac> I'll be able to debug everything AVR that I own.
[13:40:16] <megal0maniac> At the moment, my only source of debugging is serial and LEDs. And I have to write that into the firmware, which is a mission
[13:40:24] <megal0maniac> No breakpoints, etc...
[13:42:49] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Speaking of debugwire... :P
[13:43:50] <RikusW> megal0maniac: If you install AS4 en get an old mega you have debugging ability using U2s
[13:44:19] <megal0maniac> Through jtag?
[13:44:24] <RikusW> yes
[13:44:42] <megal0maniac> But what about debugwire? :)
[13:44:50] <RikusW> look at the jtagice mki supported megas -> 16 162 32 64 128
[13:45:03] <RikusW> no idea when that will be finished
[13:45:21] <megal0maniac> What is there still to do?
[13:45:26] <RikusW> apart from the uart I'll have to write some PC debugging sw too...
[13:45:38] <RikusW> the PC sw is the hard part...
[13:45:38] <megal0maniac> Not compatible with AS?
[13:46:32] <RikusW> unfortunately not
[13:46:52] <RikusW> unless I write some stuff to interface to AS but thats entirely undocumented :(
[13:47:14] <megal0maniac> Ah... Lame, Atmel
[13:47:28] <RikusW> well almost, the COM interface IDL info does come with AS4 :)
[13:47:43] <RikusW> but that will require a lot of work to decipher
[13:47:58] <RikusW> I did actually ask Atmel for the AS4 SDK.... :S
[13:49:22] <RikusW> or I could create a virtual dragon...
[13:51:34] <megal0maniac> How does the dragon enumerate itself?
[13:51:51] <RikusW> USB ?
[13:52:13] <RikusW> err I meant virtual JtagICE mkii rather it does have a serial port too
[13:52:26] <RikusW> but then I need some serial loopback sw too
[13:54:39] <megal0maniac> They don't make it easy. But then, I suppose they want to sell their hardware - not yours
[13:56:42] <RikusW> hmm yes
[13:57:52] <RikusW> megal0maniac: the mega jtag en dW is entirely closed up....
[13:57:59] <RikusW> so is the debug part of PDI
[13:58:06] <megal0maniac> So I've seen
[13:59:13] <megal0maniac> Which is why I'm considering the dragon
[14:00:13] <megal0maniac> I think I'm off for the night. Sleep time when I get home. It's long overdue :)
[14:00:17] <megal0maniac> G'night
[14:00:26] <RikusW> the dragon does have issues with PDI, if both jtag and pdi is available on the xmega only jtag works....
[14:00:30] <RikusW> gn
[14:01:00] <megal0maniac> But apparently a 22pf cap fixes that up
[14:01:10] <megal0maniac> Between CLK and GND
[14:01:21] <RikusW> maybe I should try that
[14:01:38] <megal0maniac> On PDI obviously, JTAG is fine
[14:01:50] <megal0maniac> From what I understand, it's a design flaw
[14:02:04] <Kevin`> it's intentional
[14:02:15] <megal0maniac> Oh yeah?
[14:02:17] <Kevin`> the pdi not working for devices that have jtag, that is
[14:02:22] <Kevin`> it's like the earlier size limit
[14:02:33] <Kevin`> eventually it might be removed by an avrstudio update
[14:04:41] <megal0maniac> Lame Atmel!
[14:05:00] <megal0maniac> The cap was needed for something, though...
[14:05:10] <Blecha> Whats the cheapest PDI programmer?
[14:05:15] <Kevin`> yeah, I had the same problem requiring a capacitor
[14:05:17] <Kevin`> that's different
[14:05:28] <RikusW> the LUFA AVRISP mkii clone ?
[14:16:11] <Blecha> RikusW fuck it then, im just going to do it on my arduino
[14:17:00] <Roklobsta> jesus i think i discovered a compiler problem
[14:17:07] <Roklobsta> either that or it's PEBKAC
[14:17:51] <RikusW> Blecha you could have a look at the LUFA source, it should be quite helpfull
[14:18:59] <Blecha> I hope so, really dont see why one isn't out there yt
[14:19:17] <Blecha> and I really wanna try those myxmega boards
[14:20:37] <RikusW> though I don't know what programming sw will work with a custom programmer...
[14:21:04] <Roklobsta> ok, i have to test the suspect compilre problem later. if there is a bug what is the best way to submit the problem? to atmel? to gcc?
[14:21:44] <RikusW> arv-gcc bugs again....
[14:21:54] <RikusW> just use avr-asm instead :-P
[14:21:58] <Roklobsta> hahah
[14:22:00] <Roklobsta> yes
[14:22:11] <Roklobsta> i hope it's PEBKAC but i can't see how....
[14:22:25] <Roklobsta> -O0 makes some shit code BTW
[14:22:48] <Blecha> RikusW the arduino works in avrdude as an avrisp
[14:23:06] <vectory> they say to use -Os or sth in the manual
[14:23:48] <vectory> Roklobsta: just pastebin the code
[14:24:00] <Roklobsta> later
[14:24:07] <Roklobsta> i need to confirm it's not just me
[14:24:14] <Roklobsta> not thinking like a compiler...
[14:25:07] <Roklobsta> -O1 code is much more sensible and easier to follow
[14:27:13] <RikusW> Blecha avrisp mki ?
[14:27:25] <RikusW> its not the same as mkii
[14:33:17] <Blecha> yeah not sure really
[14:33:37] <Blecha> either way i would have it pretend to be something else
[14:33:41] <Blecha> or just get a real programmer...
[14:33:48] <Blecha> When im less broke that is
[14:34:29] <RikusW> can't avrdude bitbang pdi ?
[14:34:36] <RikusW> it can for tpi which is similar
[14:34:48] <Blecha> over parallel?
[14:35:45] <RikusW> probably for tpi
[14:35:51] <RikusW> pdi is 3v3
[14:36:43] <RikusW> it should be possible to add some code to avrdude and use another avr to bitbang via a serial connection
[14:37:54] <Blecha> RikusW thats the plan, it will take me a looong time, but I need to start working on real projects
[14:38:03] <Blecha> in addition to my fun stuff
[17:31:11] <megal0maniac_afk> detach
[17:31:34] <megal0maniac_afk> Meh. Misdirected screen command :)
[17:33:18] <OndraSter> megal0maniac_afk, use a piece of wire maybe? :D
[17:36:10] <Tom_itx> evening
[17:42:00] <OndraSter> evein'
[17:44:40] <Steffanx> Good night
[17:45:09] <Tom_itx> Good day
[17:45:33] <Steffanx> No, this timezone is the only one that counts
[17:45:39] <OndraSter> haha
[22:00:22] <Richard_sleeping> Good afternoon everyone!
[22:07:29] <Casper> hi Richard_sleeping
[22:08:13] <Richard_Cavell> Hmmm.... looking for another AVR project
[22:08:29] <Casper> you completed the lcd?
[22:08:34] <Richard_Cavell> nope
[22:08:39] <Richard_Cavell> What about getting two AVRs to coordinate with each other?
[22:08:44] <Richard_Cavell> some sort of handshaking/bus thing
[22:08:56] <w|zzy> Why not complete the lcd?
[22:08:59] <Casper> like 1 wire? :D
[22:09:17] <w|zzy> It will be stupidly helpful for debugging :D
[22:09:17] <Richard_Cavell> w|zzy: it might be a bit beyond me right now
[22:10:04] <w|zzy> It is effectively turning outputs on/off with prescribed delays between them.
[22:18:22] <CapnKernel1> Richard_Cavell: http://hotchk155.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/making-pov-globe.html
[22:19:07] <Richard_Cavell> oh now that's cool
[22:19:26] <Richard_Cavell> there's a similar project where you kind of have LEDs on a rotor and it spins round, and it's like a sign
[22:19:37] <Richard_Cavell> so you have to keep track of the angle you're at
[22:19:49] <CapnKernel1> hall effect sensor
[22:24:26] <Richard_Cavell> I like the idea of having more than one processor
[22:24:31] <Richard_Cavell> having them coordinate, you know
[22:48:42] <vicatcu> hi all - having some stack troubles on the mega328, can anyone help me out?
[22:51:00] <vicatcu> i'm guessing static allocations are taking up a lot of sram, how can i figure out how much free sram I have
[22:51:16] <Richard_Cavell> are you putting your stack on SRAM?
[22:51:20] <Richard_Cavell> don't do that
[22:52:13] <vicatcu> Richard_Cavell what do you mean by that?
[22:52:28] <vicatcu> the stack is always in internal sram
[22:52:38] <Richard_Cavell> yes that's what I mean
[22:53:11] <vicatcu> so how can you "not do that"?
[22:53:35] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:53:45] <Richard_Cavell> Well, I'm just saying
[22:53:56] <Tom_itx> do you have too many vars declared?
[22:54:07] <vicatcu> is there an avr simulator that i can run my binary through to take a look at the stack pointer at the entry point to main?
[22:55:24] <vicatcu> Tom_itx: it's an Arduino program, so there's a few libraries in play - not sure how many total globals are declared in all
[22:55:42] <CapnKernel1> vicatu: There is code around that marks the stack with a particular value, and at certain points, you can call a function that tells you the most that has been used until that time
[22:56:15] <CapnKernel1> vicatcu: People tend to laugh if you say Arduino in this channel. If you want the non-laughing channel it's over in #arduino.
[22:57:28] <Casper> vicatcu: if you use arduino library, nobody here will help you with that junk
[22:58:13] <vicatcu> yea yea - i've been programming avrs long before arduino
[22:58:50] <vicatcu> i'm really asking how to use the toolchain binUtils stuff to help figure things out
[23:00:01] <vectory> vicatcu: on which os do you need the sim? avr studio has a built-in
[23:00:41] <vicatcu> vectory: ubuntu and win7 available
[23:00:50] <vectory> very well then
[23:01:05] <vicatcu> ok i'll take a look at what avr studio can tell me
[23:01:09] <vectory> alternatively use onchip debugging, single stepping and such
[23:01:31] <vectory> with gdb frontend possibly
[23:01:45] <vectory> not that i ever used it -_-
[23:03:22] <vicatcu> vectory: i don't think the mega328 supports in-system debug does it? i have an avrispmkII and an avrdragon....
[23:11:24] <CapnKernel1> It does, it's called debugwire, or dW for short.
[23:11:34] <CapnKernel1> But it's not well supported
[23:11:39] <CapnKernel1> And it's complicated
[23:20:21] <vicatcu> CapnKernell: got any practical references for debugWire?
[23:21:24] <CapnKernel1> google
[23:22:14] <CapnKernel1> RikusW and someone else in here (possibly rue_*) got it working
[23:22:43] <vicatcu> i'm looking into simavr looks pretty interesting
[23:26:57] <CapnKernel1> vicatu: Rather than the simulator, this is a far easier method: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=52249
[23:37:06] <vicatcu> CapnKernel1: Thanks! looks like just the thing
[23:37:30] <CapnKernel1> I've used it before, it works well.
[23:53:49] <creep> h