#avr | Logs for 2012-10-01

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[00:00:10] <Richard_Cavell> C
[00:12:20] <creep> i did this in asm
[00:12:57] <creep> C is more comfortable
[00:13:48] <CapnKernel> Richard_Cavell: Did you get your STK600 problems sorted?
[00:13:54] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[00:14:09] <CapnKernel> What was the problem?
[00:14:13] <Richard_Cavell> the main problem was that I had to sort of squash the socket/router boards down
[00:14:24] <Richard_Cavell> I simply placed them in position but you have to squash them firmly donw
[00:14:27] <Richard_Cavell> down
[00:24:50] <w|zzy> looks good jadew
[01:14:11] <Richard_Cavell> Guys I'm doing an online tutorial and the present task is to make a binary counter using LEDs on PORTD. I've modified this code to this: http://ideone.com/P7gUP But all the LEDs start off turned *on* and the counter acts as though off = 1. Why is it inverting?
[01:16:40] <Kevin`> Richard_Cavell: perhaps the leds are connected to vcc?
[01:16:53] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Do you have your LEDs off the GPIO pins going into GND or VCC? If you hook negative lead of LED to GPIO and positive to resistor and GND, then it should not be reversed.
[01:17:17] <Richard_Cavell> +ve is going to the pin, negative goes to a resistor and then gnd
[01:17:20] <creep> because N-channel fets are more powerful ad all microcontrollers like to pull current to ground more
[01:17:28] <creep> *and
[01:21:06] <Richard_Cavell> bugger it I'll just calculate the value and invert it myself in software
[01:21:41] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Did you try a test where you don't enable the interrupt and just put 0xFF in the port (and verify the LEDs are off)?
[01:22:55] <Richard_Cavell> I just put 0xff in portd and all the LEDs are off
[01:23:00] <Richard_Cavell> is that what's supposed to happen/
[01:23:49] <Richard_Cavell> only an electronic engineer could come up with the convention that 1 = off and 0 = on
[01:23:54] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Sounded backwards from your description...
[01:24:19] <Richard_Cavell> http://ideone.com/zMio1 << There's my code
[01:24:23] <Richard_Cavell> I do the inversion myself in software
[01:25:00] <creep> xor byte,0xff
[01:25:19] <Richard_Cavell> PORTD is only 8 bits, right?
[01:25:20] <Richard_Cavell> so just not it
[02:36:31] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Yay!!
[02:36:37] <megal0maniac> Why mac? :P
[02:36:50] <Richard_Cavell> Well for one thing you don't have to install drivers etc
[02:36:55] <Richard_Cavell> you just plug the stk600 in and it just works
[02:37:12] <Richard_Cavell> also, my mac is portable so it's more convenient for me
[02:37:42] <megal0maniac> Fine by me. I'm hearing the sweet sound of reason :)
[02:38:00] <megal0maniac> What are you using to write code & compile & upload?
[02:38:19] <Richard_Cavell> writing code in nano, compiling using avr-gcc and uploading using avrdude
[02:38:44] <specing> nano? LOL
[02:38:59] <Richard_Cavell> nano > vim || emacs
[02:39:09] <specing> I thought that thing was supposed as an emergency editor until you install vim/emacs
[02:39:32] <specing> distros ship nano instead of those full-blown editors due to flamewars
[02:39:40] <specing> anyway
[02:39:45] <specing> vim is the best ;D
[02:40:13] <megal0maniac> specing: I got vi instead of nano
[02:40:32] <specing> everyone has vi
[02:40:36] <specing> $ busybox vi
[02:40:39] <specing> voila
[02:41:14] <megal0maniac> Which, once I figured out the whole "insert mode" and "quit!" thing, I quite liked
[02:41:21] <megal0maniac> specing: Not on their routers :P
[02:41:31] <megal0maniac> But then again, they don't have busybox either
[02:41:36] <specing> what routers?
[02:41:44] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Did you use crosspack?
[02:41:47] <specing> My openwrt has full-blown vim
[02:41:53] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: yes]
[02:42:00] <megal0maniac> specing: WHERE DID YOU GET THAT??
[02:42:03] <specing> ?
[02:42:09] <megal0maniac> Only vi
[02:42:13] <megal0maniac> No vim in the repos
[02:42:14] <specing> opkg install vim
[02:42:47] <creep> Richard_Cavell<< i like geany
[02:43:02] <specing> root@OpenWrt:~# opkg list | grep vim
[02:43:04] <specing> vim - 7.1-3 - Vim is an almost compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi.
[02:43:04] <specing> vim-full - 7.1-3 - Vim is an almost compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi.
[02:43:04] <specing> vim-help - 7.1-3 - Vim is an almost compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi.
[02:43:04] <specing> vim-runtime - 7.1-3 - Vim is an almost compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi.
[02:43:53] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: I like this more. It makes more sense to me https://raw.github.com/RobotGrrl/avr-blinklight/master/blinklight.c
[02:44:20] <megal0maniac> root@OpenWrt:~# opkg update
[02:44:21] <megal0maniac> Downloading http://downloads.openwrt.org/attitude_adjustment/12.09-beta/ar71xx/generic/packages/Packages.gz.
[02:44:24] <megal0maniac> wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
[02:44:26] <megal0maniac> Collected errors: * opkg_download: Failed to download http://downloads.openwrt.org/attitude_adjustment/12.09-beta/ar71xx/generic/packages/Packages.gz, wget returned 1.
[02:44:27] <Richard_Cavell> that's using a delay function
[02:44:34] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Yip.
[02:45:15] <megal0maniac> And it's invcluded in the code instead of using avr\delay
[02:45:30] <megal0maniac> My bad. util/delay
[02:45:39] <Richard_Cavell> oh I didn't say that
[02:45:49] <Richard_Cavell> oh I didn't see that << Is what I meant to type
[02:46:12] <specing> megal0maniac: heh, I don't think OpenWRT was meant to be updated :D
[02:49:10] <creep> hehe, i see hardware guys write code in another way than software guys
[02:54:35] <megal0maniac> specing: OpenWRT stores the packages list in RAM, so you need to run opkg update on each reboot. I'm running beta of attitude adjustment, so they've probably moved things around.
[02:54:44] <megal0maniac> In fact they've definitely moved things around
[02:55:26] <specing> heh
[02:56:24] <megal0maniac> Oh craps.
[02:56:28] <megal0maniac> specing: http://downloads.openwrt.org/
[02:56:49] <megal0maniac> The URL is correct. I went to the homepage and clicked on the link just to double check
[02:57:47] <megal0maniac> creep: I see you bit-shift messages to users :P
[02:58:15] <creep> bit-shift ?
[02:58:27] <megal0maniac> ,,
[02:58:28] <megal0maniac> <<
[03:00:00] <creep> oh. no that is c++ stream operator
[03:10:05] <megal0maniac> specing: There was a hardware RAID failure
[03:36:46] <Richard_Cavell> So what's everyone doing?
[03:36:52] <Richard_Cavell> I've finished the AVR tutorial
[03:39:34] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Cool. Did it end up making some sense for you?
[03:39:41] <Richard_Cavell> yeah
[03:39:58] <Richard_Cavell> In the end the difficult part was using the STK600, since that was not documented by the author of the tutorial
[03:40:13] <Richard_Cavell> I know enough about electronics to do the breadboarding part etc
[03:40:31] <Steffanx> Richard_Cavell has a stk600?
[03:40:35] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[03:40:42] <Steffanx> I thought you said you were a poor man :P
[03:40:55] <Richard_Cavell> I figured out for myself how to attach the different ports to LEDs/switches
[03:41:09] <Richard_Cavell> I want to learn different methods of programming though
[03:41:26] <Richard_Cavell> so far my method is to pull the chip off the breadboard, put it in the socket and program it, then transplant it back
[03:41:33] <Richard_Cavell> I need to be programming it in-system
[03:41:47] <Richard_Cavell> have to build my own breakout cable I suppose
[03:43:50] <megal0maniac> That crimp connector will be of use to you
[03:44:03] <megal0maniac> Just get a bunch which are the same size as the headers
[03:44:14] <Richard_Cavell> Hmmmm
[03:44:24] <megal0maniac> Alternatively, get one, and connect ISP from the STK600 to the breadboard
[03:44:47] <megal0maniac> You can buy ribbon cable in strips
[03:44:59] <Richard_Cavell> I want to buy the ribbon cable & header made up
[03:45:08] <Richard_Cavell> So I don't have to fiddle with the wires so damn close together
[03:46:24] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: http://www.hobbytronics.co.za/p/217/ribbon-cable-10-wire-15ft
[03:46:37] <megal0maniac> Just so you know what I'm talking about
[03:47:11] <Richard_Cavell> yeah and I see the crimp connectors down below
[03:47:56] <Richard_Cavell> well at least I have a method of programming now
[03:47:58] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: I bought exactly that, from that shop, and very happy.
[03:48:00] <Richard_Cavell> I'll have to explore other optinos
[03:48:05] <Richard_Cavell> hvpp
[03:48:06] <Richard_Cavell> jtag
[03:48:11] <Richard_Cavell> bootloader
[03:48:14] <Richard_Cavell> arduino
[03:48:25] <Richard_Cavell> would be nice to get my dapa cable working just for demonstration
[03:51:17] <megal0maniac> ...?
[04:00:39] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Where did you get the design for the DAPA cable?
[04:00:56] <Richard_Cavell> http://hackaday.com/2010/10/25/avr-programming-02-the-hardware/
[04:01:40] <megal0maniac> Oh, it's just 4 resistors
[04:01:53] <megal0maniac> I shall attempt to make this. Just because
[04:10:47] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: I want to learn different methods of programming. Should I consider buying a STK500?
[04:10:53] <Richard_Cavell> Or a dedicated USB programmer thingy?
[04:13:01] <megal0maniac> Rikus' board does STK500 emulation, HVPP and HVSP, and supports the AVRISP MKII LUFA firmware so you can use that as well. JTAG (MKI) is there, but software support is still in the works.
[04:13:29] <megal0maniac> The actual STK500 is deprecated. It uses a serial port. Newer programmers just emulate the protocol
[04:13:30] <Richard_Cavell> I like the fact that the STK500 has the actual DIP sockets
[04:13:41] <Richard_Cavell> What's wrong with serial port?
[04:13:45] <Richard_Cavell> At least my bloody motherboard has one
[04:13:52] <megal0maniac> Lol
[04:13:56] * megal0maniac shrugs
[04:13:59] <megal0maniac> USB is nicer
[04:14:06] <Richard_Cavell> there's nothing wrong with parallel port either
[04:14:10] <Richard_Cavell> if it does the job, there's nothing wrong with it
[04:14:18] <megal0maniac> No, it's just a pain in the arse at times
[04:14:19] <Richard_Cavell> the only problem I'm having with my parallel port is that I don't bloody have one
[04:14:26] <megal0maniac> That's a problem
[04:15:38] <megal0maniac> I thought of making a socket board, but then you can't program in circuit
[04:15:40] <Richard_Cavell> don't you think the stk600's board-stacking paradigm is a bit awkward?
[04:15:55] <Richard_Cavell> the stk500 doesn't do that
[04:16:22] <megal0maniac> It's very awkward. But I suppose it's for compatibility
[04:16:37] <megal0maniac> My first programmer cost $20 and it's great.
[04:17:21] <megal0maniac> Otherwise check out Rikus' board again. I think you can learn a lot from it. It's a bunch of devices in 1
[04:18:39] <megal0maniac> It has a breakout for PORTB and PORTD, and half of PORTC, and it has an STK500 based bootloader, which means you can program it from Atmel Studio or avrdude without treating it like a bootloaded chip
[04:18:55] <megal0maniac> To the PC, it looks like an STK500 with a mega32u2 connected.
[04:19:47] <megal0maniac> Also acts as a USB to serial adapter, which can help with debugging, and it can program other chips. ISP or HV
[04:19:55] <megal0maniac> (with the adapter board)
[04:20:22] <Richard_Cavell> I might as well just get a STK500 instead of something that looks like a STK500
[04:20:24] <Richard_Cavell> I used to own one
[04:20:33] <megal0maniac> It doesn't
[04:21:05] <megal0maniac> Hundreds of devices use the STK500 protocol. Doesn't mean that they're STK500s
[04:21:15] <megal0maniac> Otherwise AVR Dragon
[04:23:23] <Richard_Cavell> well so far I've used OS X -> STK600 and Atmel Studio (Windows) -> STK600
[04:23:31] <megal0maniac> I'm punting Rikus' board because it's cheap, it's quick, it's easy to use, it's versatile and I bought one and I'm really glad I did.
[04:23:56] <megal0maniac> If you're looking to try something else, then it's a strongly suggested option
[04:24:30] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[04:24:39] <Richard_Cavell> Now how do I get avrdude to see my stk600 from Windows?
[04:25:00] <Richard_Cavell> I'm trying avrdude -c stk600 -p m328p -P usb -v and it says "did not find any USB device "usb" "
[04:25:15] <megal0maniac> Leave out the -P usb part
[04:26:11] <Richard_Cavell> Then it says Using Port : lpt1 and later "can't set buffers for "lpt1""
[04:27:41] <megal0maniac> Meh
[04:27:43] <megal0maniac> I'm not sure
[04:27:53] <megal0maniac> Don't know how stk600 communicates with PC.
[04:28:22] <megal0maniac> I need to run, late for work already. Cheers, & good luck
[04:56:35] <Richard_Cavell> So what is the bloody point of having AVCC and AREF?
[04:56:45] <Richard_Cavell> Is AREF supposed to be super-regulated?
[05:27:50] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: ping
[05:44:12] <tld> Richard_Cavell: You're supposed to at least decouple AREF from AVCC and VCC, but you can also give it something else.
[05:44:22] <tld> Richard_Cavell: That is, you can give AVCC +5V, and AREF +3V.
[05:44:41] <Richard_Cavell> is the idea that AREF should be as stable as possible?
[05:44:48] <tld> Richard_Cavell: Or AVCC +5V, and AREF +4.096V, to have things line up nicely.
[05:44:49] <Richard_Cavell> I don't know enough about electronics to know how to do it
[05:45:13] <Richard_Cavell> But I can understand the idea of "the reference point has to be the most stable of all the voltages in"
[05:46:19] <tld> Richard_Cavell: That's one thing.
[05:46:27] <tld> Richard_Cavell: But also, there's a 10-bit ADC in there.
[05:47:13] <tld> Richard_Cavell: 5V/2^10 steps = 5V/1024 = 0.0048828125mV pr. ADC step, but if you use a 4.096V reference, you get 5V/1024 = 0.004V pr. reference.
[05:47:26] <tld> Richard_Cavell: So a lot more comfortable to work with.
[05:47:58] <tld> Richard_Cavell: You could perhaps feed AVCC from the same reference, but a lot of the accurate voltage-references won't give you a lot of power, and I'm not sure how much AVCC needs to be able to suck.
[05:48:48] <tld> err… typo… "0.004V pr. reference" --> "0.004V pr. ADC step", three lines back, sorry.
[05:48:57] <Richard_Cavell> yes I see
[05:48:57] <tld> (working on getting on the outside of first cup of coffee)
[05:50:01] <tld> If you're just doing a quick breadboard-thing, you can just pass 5V (or 3.3V) directly to VCC, AVCC, with decoupling cap for each, and I *think* you can just leave AREF floating.
[05:50:15] <megal0maniac> You can
[05:50:53] <tld> I like the way it's done actually. Means you *can* take charge or aref if you need or want to, but don't have to when it doesn't matter.
[05:59:58] <megal0maniac> Well, in the simplest set-up, you onlt need to connect VCC and GND. In reality, it'll work fine without AVCC AGND being connected.
[06:02:56] <megal0maniac> Can anyone tell me how to remove 0805 resistors from a strip? :)
[06:03:48] <megal0maniac> Nevermind. The plastic is finally cooperating
[06:13:12] <theBear> i use a sharp snap-off knife blade for that tiny stuff usually, even if it's just to start the edge to grab onto
[06:20:47] <megal0maniac> theBear: I think what I need most right now is a pair of decent tweezers
[06:21:16] <megal0maniac> Got one out to check it out, and it's smaller than I expected. And I expected it to be small :)
[06:21:22] <megal0maniac> Sticking it on veroboard
[06:23:24] <megal0maniac> tld: How would you get a 4.096V source out of 5V?
[06:28:55] <Horologium> seems it would be easier to get 3.192V
[06:29:24] <Horologium> err..
[06:29:31] <Horologium> 3.072V rather
[06:29:32] <Richard_Cavell> you might be able to get 4.096 and 5V out of, say, 9V
[06:30:06] <Horologium> a precision boost/buck converter might could do it.
[06:32:31] <megal0maniac> 5V is easy.
[06:32:44] <megal0maniac> Multiple of 1024 not so much :)
[06:33:17] <tld> megal0maniac: low drop-out precision reference?
[06:33:32] <megal0maniac> Microchip MCP1541 looks like exactly that
[06:33:34] <Richard_Cavell> I have a voltage regulator which according to my DMM is giving me 5.03 volts
[06:34:02] <theBear> sounds likely
[06:34:13] <megal0maniac> 4.3 - 5.5V input
[06:34:35] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: There's a huge difference between a voltage regulator and a precision reference voltage regulator :)
[06:34:45] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[06:35:01] <Richard_Cavell> so are you saying we should use a precision reference voltage regulator for AREF?
[06:35:15] <Richard_Cavell> I know that to get a precise voltage it usually means you produce a small current
[06:35:16] <theBear> he sure isn't saying to use a regular voltage reg for a ref
[06:35:16] <Horologium> if you want accurate ADC, yes.
[06:35:18] <tld> megal0maniac: ADR4540, MAX6033, LT1634, there are many to choose from.
[06:35:18] <Richard_Cavell> that's all I know
[06:36:07] <tld> you'd usually get a small current from a reference regulator, but you shouldn't need a lot for aref.
[06:36:18] <tld> you might not *need* it though.
[06:36:21] <tld> all depends on what you do.
[06:36:53] <tld> if you'd like to get the max out of some 24-bit ADC, requiring high accuracy, that's one thing, but for a lot of projects using the 10bit adc in an arduino, it might not matter.
[06:37:18] <tld> it's nice to know it's there though, how and what you can do with it, in case the need pops up.
[06:37:21] <Richard_Cavell> it might also be the case that you have your own reference
[06:37:25] <theBear> and if drift isn't a problem, heck, use a couple trimpots in 'series'
[06:37:39] <megal0maniac> I was just curious as to where the reference would come from. :)
[06:38:26] <tld> what theBear said is actually a good point… one of the reasons to use a reference regulator is that you wouldn't have to tune/adjust every board if you're doing a large run.
[06:38:27] <Richard_Cavell> Like maybe you just want to compare two voltages precisely
[06:38:39] <tld> if it's a one-off, you can easily spend more time adjusting trimpots and the like, to get what you need.
[06:38:49] <theBear> if you wanna compare two voltages, you use the comparator
[06:39:19] * Tom_itx compares theBear to PooBear
[06:39:36] <theBear> hehe, now i wanna play my poobear record
[06:39:43] <megal0maniac> ADC is comparing the input voltage to the reference voltage. But it's a reference, so... yeah.
[06:40:20] <megal0maniac> Not an arbitrary comparison
[06:42:00] <megal0maniac> Work time!
[06:49:47] <tld> Speaking of voltage references, TNT was just at the door, with ADR4540-reference. :)
[06:51:57] <tld> Not quite as funny; I modified a PIR-alarm-sensor to include a DS18B20 temperature-sensor, and now I'm not 100% sure about the pinout anymore. :/
[07:19:28] <Richard_Cavell> So why does ISP take 6 pins and HVPP takes 20?
[07:21:06] <specing> high voltage parallel programming
[07:26:49] <Richard_Cavell> alright, another question. I'm on the command prompt on Windows 7 and I'm running avr-gcc main.c. It says "warning device type not defined". Where do I do that?
[07:27:09] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, -mmcu=blah, presumably
[07:27:26] <Amadiro> I assume that's what it means with device type
[07:31:01] <Horologium> Amadiro, most likely. Richard_Cavell, the -mmcu= directive tells the compiler which AVR you are compiling for.
[07:31:11] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[07:31:17] <Richard_Cavell> I guess it's pretty necessary with avr-gcc
[07:31:24] <Richard_Cavell> I'm used to gcc but avr-gcc is new to me
[07:31:41] <Horologium> without it the compiler has no idea which one to target...different chips have different devices, different memory configurations, etc..
[07:31:44] <theBear> kinda, otherwise how would it know which of the many many kinds of output it should create ? same applies with gcc
[07:32:05] <theBear> might default to native in gcc tho
[07:32:10] <Horologium> with regular gcc it just knows you are compiling for the current platform...x86 is x86 is x86...
[07:32:26] <theBear> well, x86 is probly i386
[07:32:41] <Horologium> true.
[07:32:48] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[07:33:11] <Horologium> anyhow, time to go break some copiers.
[07:33:12] <Horologium> have fun
[07:33:40] <Richard_Cavell> Okay now here's another question. I'm running Atmel Studio on Windows 7. I have some example source code that uses Delay.h and Timer.h but the compiler can't find them. I also can't find them on my hard disk. Where should they be?
[07:34:32] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, you might also want to pass in an F_CPU parameter btw, I think otherwise delays might not work correctly
[07:40:28] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, also, I've never heard of Delay.h or Timer.h, I don't know where you got those from
[07:40:59] <Amadiro> what you might want is avr/io.h and util/delay.h or so
[07:43:26] <Richard_Cavell> ok
[07:43:33] <Richard_Cavell> Well I've learned plenty for today
[07:43:39] <Richard_Cavell> Programmed my first AVR, after all
[07:44:54] <Richard_Cavell> a long as I get a bit further each day I'm doing okay
[07:56:08] <theBear> hooray
[08:07:01] <Richard_Cavell> Guys I installed libusb on Windows so I could use avrdude. It works perfectly. But now Atmel Studio won't work with my STK600. What do I do?
[08:08:39] <theBear> erm, stop using avr studio is my suggestion :)
[08:09:02] <Richard_Cavell> well, it's the 'correct' thing to use
[08:09:16] <theBear> according to who ? the people that made it ? <grin>
[08:14:48] <Richard_Cavell> see I borked my system by trying to be clever
[08:14:57] <Richard_Cavell> I'll use OS X for avrdude and Windows for Atmel Studio
[08:15:21] <theBear> i mean, i try not to influence people in my old age, but why use studio at all ?
[08:16:00] <Richard_Cavell> I hardly know anything about it yet
[09:27:41] <megal0maniac_afk> OSterver: You there
[09:27:50] <megal0maniac> ?
[10:06:22] <OSterver> megal0maniac, no
[10:07:07] <tld> megal0maniac: did you have a question?
[10:07:16] <OSterver> I presume that his xboard arrived
[10:07:30] <megal0maniac> OSterver: I wish :P
[10:08:19] <OSterver> lol
[10:08:50] <tld> What are these xboards anyway? I think I saw a link for them yesterday, but they didn't seem to be available (yet)?
[10:09:00] <OSterver> xboard coco is
[10:09:06] <OSterver> it is pretty much (for now) breakout board for atxmega chip(s)
[10:09:10] <OSterver> later there will be arduino form too
[10:09:38] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Have you seen this? http://www.gabotronics.com/development-boards/xmega-xprotolab.htm
[10:09:47] <OSterver> no
[10:09:51] <OSterver> it is breakout + all the essentials (regulator, decoupling caps, ..
[10:09:58] <OSterver> oh this
[10:10:00] <OSterver> I think I did
[10:10:29] <OSterver> I might do my own one with better specs
[10:10:32] <OSterver> (not ADC) :)
[10:10:35] <tld> http://myxboard.net/boards.html <-- This XBoard coco?
[10:10:42] <OSterver> aye
[10:10:48] <OSterver> just in black, rather green :D
[10:10:59] <tld> black is nice. :)
[10:11:06] <OSterver> aye
[10:11:13] <OSterver> as long as it costs ~the same as the green one, yes
[10:11:34] <tld> This can be programmed using avrdude, and dropped in a breadboard or a project?
[10:12:05] * megal0maniac nods
[10:13:11] <tld> just breakout, or does it come finished with chip, USB-connector (I assume it's a USB connector on the left side?)?
[10:13:17] <tld> just bare PCB I mean, or… ?
[10:13:28] <megal0maniac> USB connector, resistors, vreg etc
[10:13:41] <tld> it does seem very nice.
[10:13:52] <tld> there doesn't seem to be an ordering-page though?
[10:14:10] <megal0maniac> Just speak to OSterver. Where have you gone?
[10:14:22] <megal0maniac> tld: Where are you based?
[10:15:34] <tld> megal0maniac: Norway
[10:15:49] <tld> will have to fly for a bit (family), but I'll be back a bit later (sorry).
[10:15:54] <megal0maniac> Then it's EUR25, shipping incl. Unless things have changed
[10:23:14] <OSterver> sorry, xchat, when has a lot of balooon popups, tends to take ages before it does anything
[10:23:20] <OSterver> <tld> This can be programmed using avrdude, and dropped in a breadboard or a project?
[10:23:21] <OSterver> yes
[10:24:00] <OSterver> it is with chip, USB, ESD suppresors, everything
[10:24:09] <OSterver> 3v3 regulator
[10:24:11] <OSterver> headesr
[10:24:13] <OSterver> headers*
[10:24:23] <OSterver> it leaves two pins on each side
[10:24:26] <OSterver> (at least with my breadboard)
[10:28:36] <OSterver> lol @ Dexter
[10:33:00] <megal0maniac> OSterver: That xprotolab thing is pretty cool
[10:33:04] <megal0maniac> And the source is open
[10:33:22] <megal0maniac> Maybe I can port it to the 256a3u :P
[10:33:30] <OSterver> just set the target to 256a3u
[10:33:32] <OSterver> click compile
[10:33:33] <OSterver> done :)
[10:33:35] <OSterver> beautfy of xmega
[10:33:45] <megal0maniac> That's what I was thinking
[10:33:52] <OSterver> I used a1u demos on a3u just fine (of course they did not use EBI, those were USB demos)
[10:34:20] <megal0maniac> My only concern is the OLED display
[10:35:12] <OSterver> what's with that?
[10:35:26] <OSterver> I would prefer higher resolution though
[10:35:31] <OSterver> some 240x320 TFT
[10:35:53] <OSterver> maybe second xmega to drive just that and keep the smaller a4u just for sampling
[10:35:57] <OSterver> or you know, dedicated ADC :D
[10:36:14] <OSterver> 10MSPS ADCs are cheap
[10:36:18] <megal0maniac> Well they use the same chip as on the xboard mini
[10:36:22] <megal0maniac> iirc
[10:36:28] <OSterver> I have got USB version :)
[10:37:17] <megal0maniac> Of..?
[10:37:24] <OSterver> xmega32a4(u)
[10:37:52] <OSterver> or does he have a4u too?
[10:37:58] <OSterver> I am watching dexter atm :D
[10:37:58] <megal0maniac> Yeah, they do
[10:38:14] <OSterver> oh
[10:38:19] <megal0maniac> D- and D+ are on PD6 and 7
[10:38:22] <OSterver> ye
[10:38:54] <megal0maniac> Interestingly, the LA inputs are connected directly to port C
[10:39:10] <megal0maniac> I expected resistors or some kind of protection or buffer
[10:39:11] <OSterver> I would add at least a buffer
[10:39:13] <OSterver> ay
[10:39:17] <megal0maniac> Which means 3v3 tolerant
[10:39:18] <megal0maniac> ONLY
[10:39:24] <OSterver> yea
[10:39:49] <megal0maniac> Which is the difference between me buying it and not buying it. But perhaps I'll make a board which fits onto the coco
[10:40:00] <megal0maniac> That's the most expensive part after all
[10:40:02] <OSterver> just get the OLED screen :)
[10:40:20] <OSterver> you could also add arbitrary wavegen :P
[10:40:23] <OSterver> since it has 12bit DAC
[10:40:24] <OSterver> 1MSPS
[10:41:21] <megal0maniac> The original has that already, though..?
[10:41:38] <megal0maniac> It's a transistor, two resistors and a cap. That's all
[10:41:45] <megal0maniac> Connected to DAC
[10:41:56] <megal0maniac> Again, though, I want 5V :(
[10:41:58] <OSterver> that is PWM
[10:42:11] <OSterver> well, a4u has DAC too
[10:42:21] <megal0maniac> PB2 on atxmega32a4u is DAC
[10:42:23] <OSterver> yes
[10:42:30] <OSterver> it does arbitrary wavegen too? nice
[10:42:54] <megal0maniac> And protocol sniffing on UART, SPI and I2C
[10:43:01] <Blecha> Any atmel chips in the hobby range that have audio DACs?
[10:43:09] <OSterver> just by analyzing or hardware data acquisition?
[10:43:21] <OSterver> well, they usually use sigma delta 24bit ADC
[10:43:21] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Not sure. Check out the page
[10:43:22] <OSterver> so no
[10:43:41] <OSterver> or i2S interface to audio codec :P
[10:43:48] <OSterver> again, not on any (x)mega
[10:44:58] <OSterver> ZOMG, Dexter did print scan by touching the victim on the iphone :(
[10:45:07] <tld> OSterver: I really like that it's 3.3V. "Everything" seems to be 3.3V or below these days.
[10:45:21] <OSterver> except bloody hd47780 displays :P
[10:45:24] <OSterver> 44780
[10:45:35] <OSterver> they need 5V
[10:45:39] <OSterver> work with 3v3 logic though
[10:46:05] <tld> means an extra regulator, but no real change for IO.
[10:46:22] <OSterver> well you can't read from it :)
[10:46:23] <tld> and you get compatible displays for 3.3V.
[10:46:36] <OSterver> aye
[10:46:59] <tld> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Character-LCD-Display-LCM-1602-16X2-162-blue-3-3v-/330547348061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf628425d <-- like this.
[10:47:28] <megal0maniac> OSterver: buck-boost?
[10:47:30] <tld> and besides, could be a resistor-divider is enough to read?
[10:47:35] <OSterver> tld, oh nice
[10:47:37] <OSterver> yes
[10:47:43] <OSterver> but writing would not be usable anymore :)
[10:47:46] <OSterver> megal0maniac, ?
[10:47:47] <OSterver> where
[10:48:00] <tld> I just ordered about 10 pieces of 16x2, mix between 5V and 3.3V.
[10:48:04] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Well you can get 5V from 3v3
[10:48:06] <tld> (os nice to keep around, and so cheap)
[10:48:07] <OSterver> yes
[10:49:02] <tld> The xboard coco… So I know they're available, I have an aproximate price, but where would one go about ordering them?
[10:49:26] <OSterver> send money to paypal ondraster@gmail.com :)
[10:49:38] <tld> ahh
[10:49:46] <OSterver> and expect tracking link the day or two after
[10:49:53] <OSterver> (working days that is)
[10:49:58] <megal0maniac> OSterver: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/799
[10:50:03] <tld> are they expected to be available for a while?
[10:50:13] <OSterver> aye
[10:50:18] <OSterver> there will be arduino forms too
[10:50:29] <OSterver> I have got boards for the breadboardable coco here, but not all parts :)
[10:50:42] <OSterver> megal0maniac, yes
[10:50:48] <OSterver> or you know, just tie it to USB directly :P
[10:51:27] <megal0maniac> I like that it's adjustable, and you can get 20V out of 3V :)
[10:51:33] <OSterver> :)
[10:51:38] <OSterver> I have got one that goes upto 32V
[10:51:41] <OSterver> or 35V
[10:52:29] <NovceGuru> OSterver: I got an email back from atmel, they said it's a bug and will be fixed in their next release
[10:52:54] <OSterver> NovceGuru, you are the VPORT guy?
[10:54:56] <megal0maniac> What bug? Where?
[10:55:10] <OSterver> missing VPORT definitions on iox*.h
[10:55:14] <OSterver> in*
[10:56:12] * megal0maniac doesn't think he needs vport
[10:56:31] <megal0maniac> This in AS6 sp1?
[10:56:35] <OSterver> ye
[10:56:47] <OSterver> would be nice if you could put together one whole port made of different pins of different pins
[10:57:21] <megal0maniac> Surely that's possible in software?
[10:57:26] <OSterver> aye
[10:57:30] <OSterver> but in hardware it would be nice
[10:57:43] <OSterver> imagine writing full ports made of random bits instead randomly splitting the data etc
[10:58:27] <OSterver> one STS instruction rather 20 instructions :/
[10:58:53] <OSterver> btw, there was sample board AVR Parrot or something
[10:58:58] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... fair enough, but would there really be much of a practical advantage?
[10:58:59] <OSterver> it had xmega with microphone and speaker
[10:59:02] <OSterver> yes
[10:59:03] <OSterver> speed
[10:59:29] <OSterver> it could record and playback stuff while the CPU core was sleeping
[10:59:32] <OSterver> only with peripherals :)
[10:59:47] <OSterver> timer signaled event timer "time for new ADC" (DAC)
[10:59:51] <OSterver> ADC sampled
[10:59:55] <OSterver> DMA transferred to memory
[10:59:59] <OSterver> launched timer again
[11:00:00] <OSterver> :)
[11:07:02] <OSterver> I was talking about many things
[11:07:18] <Blecha> remapping pins/ports
[11:07:22] <OSterver> ah
[11:07:22] <Blecha> in hardware
[11:07:45] <Blecha> yeah, an arduino-ized graphic lcd library did it in software and made me cry
[11:07:47] <OSterver> that's why one usually uses full port for such things
[11:14:08] -lindbohm.freenode.net:#avr- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[11:14:43] <tld> stuff here is more like $250+
[11:14:58] <tld> oh, well, it's a while off, so I suppose I'll just have to keep my eyes open.
[11:14:59] <megal0maniac> Likewise. If not more
[11:15:06] <OSterver> you can get full reflow oven for $200 from china
[11:15:08] <OSterver> or $250 or so
[11:15:12] <OSterver> I am building one myself
[11:15:17] <tld> OSterver: what'll you use for temp-monitoring?
[11:15:21] <OSterver> $15 for oven, about $30 for the controller I am doing
[11:15:26] <OSterver> K thermocouple
[11:16:12] <tld> with them being $50 in Denmark, I could freakin' go there and buy one, rather than buy here. ;)
[11:16:21] <OSterver> thermocouples?
[11:16:27] <tld> no, the oven itself
[11:16:32] <OSterver> oh
[11:16:34] <tld> thermocouples are easy enough (bay, etc)
[11:16:44] <tld> planning on using anything to get temperature *down*?
[11:16:47] <OSterver> wait, $50 for reflow oven?
[11:16:52] <OSterver> doors :D
[11:16:52] <tld> (opening door, fan… ?)
[11:17:01] <tld> $50 for an oven that can be re-made.
[11:17:08] <tld> http://www.harald-nyborg.dk/p6101/wasco-miniovn-18l <-- that one.
[11:17:10] <OSterver> ah
[11:17:12] <OSterver> toaster oven?
[11:17:34] <tld> yeah
[11:18:01] <OSterver> mkay
[11:18:07] <OSterver> I got one for $15 incl. shipping
[11:18:10] <tld> actually, I'd like to find one at a flea-market… there's just something nice about picking up scrap, and giving it new life.
[11:18:24] <OSterver> it fits about A4 paper sized PCBs
[11:18:31] <OSterver> hehe
[11:18:38] <tld> not bad. :)
[11:19:51] <megal0maniac> :D
[11:20:00] <megal0maniac> Might be working with Pendulum next year
[11:20:21] <megal0maniac> Not AVR related at all but I'm excite
[11:20:50] <megal0maniac> And Rise Against
[11:21:00] <OSterver> pendulum?
[11:21:03] <OSterver> and the pit?
[11:21:37] <tld> http://www.jula.no/miniovn-1380-w-864012 <-- hmm, that doesn't look too horrible.
[11:22:01] <OSterver> how much is it in "regular" mopney?
[11:22:03] <OSterver> eur/usd
[11:22:06] <OSterver> /czk
[11:22:21] <theBear> looks delicious
[11:22:22] <tld> $85-ish
[11:22:33] <tld> dual heating-elements on top, dual at bottom.
[11:22:36] <tld> brb
[11:22:43] <OSterver> fap time? :D
[11:24:32] <karlp> megal0maniac: doing what?
[11:24:43] <megal0maniac> Stage managing.
[11:25:11] <megal0maniac> Looks like it's just the DJ set for pendulum, but Rise Against is the full band
[11:26:12] <megal0maniac> Was In Flames and Infected Mushroom this year
[11:26:21] <megal0maniac> And Awolnation
[11:27:13] <tld> this seems to be rated at 1380W, and possibly max 250C, which I can probably push a bit if I run the heater (though perhaps not a good idea to push too much)… Is there a minimum for Watt-rating and max-temperature I should keep in mind for reflow-work?
[11:27:34] <tld> would suck to do a project, and land 10-20C below what I end up needing at some point.
[11:31:07] <OSterver> megal0maniac, Infected Msurhoom
[11:31:09] <OSterver> Pendulum
[11:31:10] <OSterver> doode
[11:31:13] <OSterver> GIMME YOUR JOB
[11:31:36] <megal0maniac> Lol
[11:32:08] <theBear> pendulum kinda suck, infected mushroom is getting there, crazy astronaut better
[11:32:41] <megal0maniac> We take what we can get here :) Not that many big names come here, but things are getting better
[11:33:15] <theBear> my new boss has done some awesome stuff the fucker... had carl cox for live and in his studio, done qbert, etc etc
[11:33:39] <OSterver> I know only Brian cox
[11:33:40] <OSterver> Cox
[11:34:32] <megal0maniac> I free-lance stage manage. It happens 1 or 2 times a year. Pays terribly, but it's a weekend of heavy, fun work, I can meet the bands, I'm away from the drunkards and I don't pay for the festival :) So it's not bad, but it's not my "job" I'm afriad
[11:35:15] <theBear> YOU KNOW BRIAN COX !?!?!?! YOU FUCKER !!!!
[11:35:23] <OSterver> :D
[11:35:27] <OSterver> not in person :(
[11:35:42] <theBear> megal0maniac, hehe, similar to the only thigns taht will ever get me at a festival in my old age :)
[11:35:52] <theBear> i got their cassingle from the 90s
[11:51:47] <Amadiro> Aw man, I fell asleep at the lab... *yawn* almost got a few IC footprints imprinted on my face
[11:56:38] <Essobi> Hah.
[11:58:02] <OSterver> happens
[11:58:05] * megal0maniac needs tweezers...
[11:58:26] <megal0maniac> Got 0804 resistors today. Underestimated their tiny-ness
[11:58:33] <Essobi> It's not THAT small no matter what she says.
[11:58:39] <Essobi> *snap* You type faster.
[11:58:41] <karlp> 0805, or 0603? or some other units all together?
[11:58:47] <megal0maniac> Whoops
[11:58:51] <megal0maniac> 0805 :)
[11:58:55] <OSterver> that is huge :)
[11:59:20] <karlp> yeah, when I started laying out on 0.5mm lqfp I started wishing I'd chosen 0603 instead of 0805 :)
[11:59:32] <OSterver> I am tempted to go for 0402
[11:59:33] <karlp> when I got to solder it though I was glad it was 0805 instead of 0603
[11:59:34] <OSterver> but that IS tiny
[11:59:40] <megal0maniac> You European people have riduculously tiny fingers
[11:59:43] <OSterver> plus I have got reels of 0603
[11:59:51] <OSterver> tiny fingers, big other stuff :)
[12:00:05] <megal0maniac> Feet?
[12:00:09] <megal0maniac> Pity
[12:00:13] <OSterver> :D
[12:00:15] <megal0maniac> That's awkward :P
[12:00:26] <OSterver> well
[12:00:29] <OSterver> almost feet
[12:00:37] <OSterver> some can even call it third leg.. :D
[12:00:43] <megal0maniac> ANYWAY
[12:00:54] <megal0maniac> So I think I'll make that scope
[12:01:10] <OSterver> :)
[12:01:14] <karlp> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/333932
[12:01:46] <megal0maniac> Unfortunately, the source isn't open. Some features are only in the .hex file. Which means only the smaller xmega
[12:01:58] <OSterver> no
[12:01:59] <OSterver> it does not
[12:02:02] <OSterver> just flash the hex :)
[12:02:04] <OSterver> it is compatible
[12:02:08] <OSterver> the register addresses are the same
[12:02:13] <megal0maniac> Seriously?
[12:02:16] <OSterver> aye
[12:02:19] <OSterver> welcome to xmega :)
[12:02:46] <megal0maniac> Heck. I knew it was easy to port, but I didn't realise that there was no porting involved in porting :P
[12:02:52] <OSterver> :P
[12:03:00] <OSterver> porting to higher chips = no changes involved
[12:04:06] <megal0maniac> What changes when you move to smaller chip?
[12:04:14] <OSterver> lack of second ADC, DAC
[12:04:42] <OSterver> , ...
[12:05:58] <megal0maniac> " You cannot go above Gingerbread on many Android phones because of Linux upstream's decision to break internal interfaces every
[12:06:01] <megal0maniac> release. The blobs won't work anymore past a few kernel revisions, if that."
[12:06:40] <megal0maniac> This is unexpected
[12:06:45] <OSterver> :P
[12:06:50] <OSterver> I keep telling it all the time
[12:07:00] <OSterver> linux is NOT backwards compatible as everybody thinks
[12:08:55] <megal0maniac> It's misleading due to the lack of a commercial "release cycle"
[12:09:10] <Blecha> I learned that a few times with various video/wifi driver issues
[12:09:29] <Blecha> My personal sweet spot is ubuntu 9.04
[12:09:31] <megal0maniac> When I checked my kernel version yesterday, I was confused when it wasn't 2.6
[12:09:58] <megal0maniac> Blecha: That was shortly before they started dumbing it down, no?
[12:10:05] <Blecha> Yep
[12:10:18] <Blecha> I will set up to the first 10 but nothing past that
[12:10:26] <Blecha> step up*
[12:10:42] <megal0maniac> I _really_ like Crunchbang
[12:12:44] <megal0maniac> OSterver: "Africans coming out on top, Asians at the bottom, and Europeans somewhere in between"
[12:13:58] <OSterver> :D
[12:14:02] <OSterver> and emericans?
[12:15:20] <megal0maniac> Didn't qualify
[12:15:25] <Blecha> for what?
[12:15:38] <megal0maniac> < karlp> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/333932
[12:15:59] <Blecha> nsfw warning
[12:16:45] <OSterver> wait, the average of porn stars is 7.1 inches only?
[12:16:51] <OSterver> (note that I do not watch porn with guys in it)
[12:17:05] <karlp> megal0maniac: that gingerbread quote on #openwrt is a bit of a stretch
[12:17:38] <Blecha> asian porn 0Sterver
[12:18:07] <OSterver> lol
[12:26:14] <amu> ANY BODY PL HELP ME HOW TO STORE SOME VARIABLES IN ATMEGA16 WHEN POWER FAIL
[12:27:11] <megal0maniac> amu: Use eeprom and don't shout
[12:28:06] <OSterver> HALP HALP HALP
[12:28:10] <ben1066> amu: please dont pm people randomly
[12:31:05] <megal0maniac> this is madness
[12:36:05] <megal0maniac> lol
[12:36:10] <megal0maniac> Who did he pm?
[12:36:26] <ben1066> me
[12:36:53] <ben1066> no reason at all, havent said a word in here for weeks
[12:36:58] <ben1066> and I get a random message :P#
[12:38:28] <megal0maniac> Lucky you
[12:39:16] <ben1066> <amu> HELLO SIR
[12:39:16] <ben1066> <amu> CAN U PL HELP ME
[12:39:59] <Blecha> at least he said SIR
[12:40:03] <profil> lol
[12:40:07] <Blecha> maybe his capslock is broken
[12:40:37] <megal0maniac> Down here, people call you sir before they try and mug you :P
[12:41:12] <ben1066> lol
[12:41:15] <ben1066> internet muggings
[12:41:16] <ben1066> D;
[12:44:15] <megal0maniac> I wish. Then at least you can run away :P
[12:44:45] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Bring me the horizon and As I lay dying will also be at this festival
[12:45:09] <OSterver> never heard about those
[12:45:11] <megal0maniac> Not a huge fan anymore, but I know who I can tell just to make them jealous :P
[12:57:43] <drobban> :)
[13:13:48] <creep> hey
[13:15:37] <OSterver> hey creepy guy
[13:19:45] <creep> a girl told me this ;<
[13:20:03] <creep> so i'm a creep
[13:21:05] <OSterver> haha
[13:27:02] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Hopefully there's an xboard waiting at home. I'll let you know
[13:27:09] <megal0maniac> G'night all
[13:29:25] <gidna> Hi
[13:32:10] <gidna> I need a programmer..
[13:33:18] <r00t|home> we don't sell programmers here
[13:33:48] <drobban> =)
[13:34:09] <drobban> gidna there is alot of programmers available at ebay =D
[13:35:01] <gidna> drobban, Did you buy one from there?
[13:37:02] <drobban> gidna: yupp
[13:37:43] <gidna> from where? I need also atmegas..
[13:38:13] <r00t|home> wait, damn... i DO sell isp programming devices...
[13:38:25] <r00t|home> 2eur + shipping or whatever it was
[13:40:06] <gidna> ? where are your programmers? I have to buy also the microcontrollers
[13:40:14] <r00t|home> i always keep some stock of those... i can send you one if you don't like to wait for shipping from china (also most chinese sellers don't shit to italy):
[13:40:15] <r00t|home> http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_nkw=usb+isp&LH_PrefLoc=2&LH_BIN=1
[13:41:25] <creep> yo r00t|home , you have some tqfp atmega48 in stock?
[13:41:36] <drobban> r00t|home: hahaha =D
[13:42:02] <r00t|home> drobban: ?
[13:42:09] <drobban> 20:21 < r00t|home> we don't sell programmers here
[13:42:21] <r00t|home> drobban: i was assuming he meant a programmer (person)
[13:42:41] <drobban> =) okey, I understand
[13:43:00] <gidna> r00t|home, How do I connect them to a breadboard??
[13:43:05] <drobban> It was still kind of funny
[13:43:14] <Tom_itx> i've got programmers
[13:43:27] <Tom_itx> with breadboard adapters if needed
[13:44:06] <r00t|home> gidna: i made myself a breadboard adapter from breadboard jumper cables and an idc connector
[13:44:59] <gidna> Do these work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Male-to-Male-Solderless-Flexible-Breadboard-Jumper-Cable-Wires-65Pcs-for-Arduino-/261102557136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccaecd7d0?
[13:45:44] <Tom_itx> gidna, i made a breadboard adapter for mine you can see in this pic: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_full_kit_desc.jpg
[13:47:21] <gidna> Tom_itx, Can you sell that to me? with an atmega168?
[13:47:33] <Tom_itx> i don't sell chips but i do have programmers
[13:47:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[13:50:02] <gidna> Is it compatible with AVR gcc ?
[13:50:14] <Tom_itx> doesn't matter but yes
[13:50:23] <Tom_itx> it works with avrdude or studio
[13:50:48] <Tom_itx> and will program all the 8 bit avrs far as i know
[13:51:07] <creep> do you call your AVR program an OS ?
[13:51:43] <r00t|home> gidna: yes, those cables are what i use(d)
[13:52:22] <Tom_itx> creep why would i?
[13:52:45] <creep> well, its the only thing that runs on it, and its a microcomputer
[13:53:34] <Tom_itx> OS indicates an underlying kernel
[13:53:52] <Tom_itx> and it is not a microcomputer, rather microcontroller
[13:54:22] <creep> it has built in ram, storage, it executes instructions
[13:54:36] <creep> has io ports
[13:54:39] <creep> interrupts
[13:54:46] <Tom_itx> yes, there are alot of similarities
[13:54:54] <megal0maniac_afk> That makes it a computer, of sorts.
[13:55:06] <Tom_itx> or a processor
[13:55:10] <megal0maniac_afk> An OS is designed for other software to run on top of it
[13:55:29] <megal0maniac_afk> This is purpose-dedicated firmware. Different thing altogether
[13:55:43] <creep> so, kernel?
[13:55:48] <megal0maniac_afk> Nope
[13:56:32] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Suggestions (or advice) for tweezers for pick 'n place?
[13:56:37] <megal0maniac> 0805 resistors...
[13:56:52] <megal0maniac> Don't want to buy crap tweezers, or good ones which aren't suitable
[13:56:52] <creep> in GPU programming and scheme you have kernels that process datasets, return results
[13:57:20] <megal0maniac> Also SOT23 transistors
[13:57:24] <creep> megal0maniac<< haha you can make one
[13:57:59] <creep> but its best to be non magnetic ;/
[13:58:10] <megal0maniac> Makes sense
[13:58:15] <megal0maniac> I've seen ceramic ones...
[13:58:17] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac, i use a modified fishtank pump with a hypodermic needle
[13:58:28] <creep> ceramic will chip and break
[13:58:32] <Tom_itx> and tweezers i got from dealextreme
[13:58:35] <creep> but sounds cool
[13:58:56] <creep> Tom_itx<< haha what is that?
[13:59:21] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: That's sounds quite... out there. But okay :P
[13:59:31] <megal0maniac> Time to lock up. 'night
[13:59:33] <Tom_itx> it works really well
[13:59:43] <Tom_itx> i'm getting you a link to the tweezers
[13:59:49] <Tom_itx> unless you can't wait
[13:59:55] <megal0maniac> Oh, cool. Will hang on a sec :)
[14:00:08] <megal0maniac> I've got minute
[14:00:09] <Tom_itx> http://dx.com/p/weitu-stainless-steel-straight-and-angled-tweezerses-2-piece-set-19914?item=9
[14:00:13] <Tom_itx> is one i have
[14:00:20] <Tom_itx> and a couple others from there
[14:00:27] <megal0maniac> mkay. so angled is good?
[14:00:36] <Tom_itx> i use both
[14:00:40] <Tom_itx> and
[14:01:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
[14:01:06] <Tom_itx> one of those
[14:01:42] <megal0maniac> Wow..
[14:02:07] <megal0maniac> I have a loupe :P Works well enough to check your work, but you can't use it while soldering
[14:02:21] <Tom_itx> i have one of those too
[14:02:22] <megal0maniac> At that price, I might give DX a try
[14:02:27] <megal0maniac> I see it
[14:02:32] <megal0maniac> The Kester box?
[14:02:37] <Tom_itx> you can't go wrong with the tweezers
[14:02:40] <megal0maniac> Oh
[14:02:43] <megal0maniac> That's solder
[14:02:47] <Tom_itx> yes
[14:02:51] <Tom_itx> .015"
[14:03:02] <Tom_itx> i've got a toaster oven too
[14:03:34] <megal0maniac> I just need the bare essentials :)
[14:03:40] <megal0maniac> I've seen your toaster
[14:03:57] <megal0maniac> And most of the stuff in your projects section
[14:04:37] <megal0maniac> Ah! RikusW. Hi. Any parcels for you today?
[14:05:26] <Tom_itx> http://dx.com/p/metal-anti-static-tweezers-4985?item=25
[14:05:31] <Tom_itx> i think i have those too
[14:05:38] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Rage. keep getting HTTP500
[14:06:00] <Tom_itx> http://dx.com/p/weitus-stainless-steel-tweezers-for-electronics-diy-2-pack-19856?item=27
[14:06:02] <RikusW> hi megal0maniac
[14:06:02] <Tom_itx> or those
[14:06:07] <RikusW> no parcel yet...
[14:06:17] <creep> Tom_itx<< cook, so yo meant simple syringe needle, and you made industrial blunt needle from it
[14:06:21] <creep> *cool
[14:06:26] <megal0maniac> "This service is unavailable"
[14:06:31] <megal0maniac> I'll check when I get home
[14:06:31] <RikusW> when is does arrive you'll know asap
[14:06:40] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Okay, cool :) Thanks
[14:06:58] <Tom_itx> i think that last link are the ones i have over the first one
[14:07:14] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they're both similar
[14:07:19] <megal0maniac> I can't see anything, but I will when I get home :)
[14:07:26] <megal0maniac> Hopefully
[14:07:36] <megal0maniac> If I get 200 instead of 500
[14:07:44] <RikusW> stainless works well, solder don't stick to it
[14:07:58] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:08:34] <OSterver> http://www.ebay.com/itm/blunt-dispensing-needles-syringe-needle-tips-1-4-20-pcs-14G-27G-/251104642066?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7700c412
[14:08:38] <OSterver> for solder paste maybe?
[14:08:54] <Tom_itx> i should take a pic of my hand held pick n place
[14:08:55] <Tom_itx> wand
[14:09:00] <Tom_itx> it was easy to make
[14:09:16] <Tom_itx> just tap into the suction side of a fishtank bubbler pump
[14:09:24] <megal0maniac> Gotta run, will pick up when I get home. Need to make a shopping list :)
[14:09:26] <Tom_itx> put a tee in the line
[14:09:27] <megal0maniac> Cheers
[14:09:36] <megal0maniac> Keen to see it
[14:09:36] <Tom_itx> with a blunt end hypo needle
[14:09:42] <Tom_itx> nothing fancy
[14:09:47] <Blecha> Tom_itx does it rotate?
[14:09:48] <Tom_itx> but it saves time
[14:09:57] <OSterver> Blecha, sure
[14:09:59] <Tom_itx> no it's just a needle
[14:10:00] <OSterver> just rotate your hand :)
[14:10:01] <Blecha> oh it just picks stuff up
[14:10:11] <Blecha> nvm I thought this was a REAL pick and place
[14:10:16] <Tom_itx> Blecha, i saw one of those at the local store used though
[14:10:22] <Tom_itx> almost picked it up
[14:10:22] <OSterver> Tom_itx, how would you go about doing dualsided boards with reflow ovens?
[14:10:34] <Tom_itx> it was a 'real' manual one
[14:10:39] <Blecha> inverse the gravitons
[14:10:53] <Tom_itx> OSterver you should visit with inflex about that, he's done alot of them
[14:11:21] <Tom_itx> the capilary effect of the solder will keep the parts on unless you bump em crazy
[14:11:29] <Tom_itx> let them cool before removing em
[14:11:37] <OSterver> sure
[14:11:47] <RikusW> or use resin
[14:11:53] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:12:01] <Tom_itx> he did use home made resin
[14:12:09] <Tom_itx> from rosin he got in a brick
[14:12:12] <RikusW> factory made bords have a dot of heat curing resin under the components
[14:12:22] <Tom_itx> i told him that the other day
[14:12:25] <Tom_itx> he didn't believe me
[14:12:50] <Tom_itx> it's what the glue layer in the cad is for
[14:13:50] <Blecha> I use that sticky tack stuff when I hand solder
[14:13:56] <Blecha> so that kinda makes sense
[14:14:57] <Blecha> I also imagine a robot can make smaller blobs of sticky stuff than me
[14:15:03] <Tom_itx> the fish bubbler pump works good for a ghetto manual pick n place
[14:15:14] <Tom_itx> it _does_ speed things up alot
[14:15:17] <OSterver> hehe
[14:15:21] <OSterver> aye
[14:15:23] <Tom_itx> and it's cheap
[14:15:23] <OSterver> by far
[14:15:31] <OSterver> also I keep losing my tweezers somehow
[14:15:35] <OSterver> I always have to search my whole table for them
[14:15:39] <OSterver> and I have two!
[14:15:52] <Tom_itx> i prolly have half dozen pair or more
[14:16:20] <Tom_itx> and i put the parts in those little plastic smt boxes with labels so it goes quicker
[14:16:36] <Tom_itx> instead of trying to dig em out of the tape one by one
[14:18:04] <RikusW> OSterver: seems you're not alone in that ;)
[14:18:07] <OSterver> I need some ghetto pick'n'place too, I keep always sneezing and I am losing 0603 capacitors :(
[14:18:24] <JyZyXEL> with 1:12 divider and 1v1 internal reference what voltage would value 787 be?
[14:19:06] <Tom_itx> OSterver, i'll take a couple of pics later on
[14:19:10] <OSterver> thanks
[14:19:39] <creep> Tom_itx<< how does the fish tank with needle work out ?
[14:19:47] <Tom_itx> i got a fish check valve and split it so i'd have an adapter for the hose then i drilled into the suction side of the pump and glued it on there
[14:19:54] <Tom_itx> creep really good
[14:19:57] <creep> can you pick place ics too?
[14:20:02] <Tom_itx> small ones
[14:20:12] <Tom_itx> i take the needle off for those and just use the tube
[14:21:05] <Tom_itx> i put a tee in the vinal line but really don't use it much
[14:21:07] <creep> because the vacuum is not strong enough?
[14:21:13] <Tom_itx> it's like a 'release' button
[14:21:36] <Tom_itx> creep, the needle is a pretty tiny surface area to pick up a chip
[14:21:47] <Tom_itx> i wish i had a suction cup for the end of it
[14:21:52] <Tom_itx> like the real ones
[14:21:53] <creep> hm, yes
[14:22:37] <creep> well i tried this too, used a rubber plug from an insulin syringe for cup
[14:22:53] <Tom_itx> ok gimme a sec, i'll shoot a pic
[14:23:00] <creep> glued it on to a syringe needle using FBS
[14:23:47] <creep> my problem with it is its not really high temperature, so a few soldering pit pickups melts it
[14:24:06] <creep> -pit
[14:24:20] <creep> *desoldering
[14:32:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/pic_n_place/picnplace1.jpg
[14:33:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/pic_n_place/picnplace2.jpg
[14:33:27] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/pic_n_place/picnplace3.jpg
[14:33:47] <Tom_itx> i used the end off one of the check valves you see and drilled into the suction side
[14:33:58] <Tom_itx> then blocked the regular suction side on the bottom
[14:34:07] <Tom_itx> then sealed the halves with hot glue
[14:34:41] <creep> i don't get it, everybody overcomplicates this
[14:34:45] <Tom_itx> i got a double pump for my etch tank
[14:34:53] <Tom_itx> how's that complicated?
[14:35:03] <creep> overcomplicated
[14:35:22] <creep> well i think no modification is needed
[14:35:33] <OSterver> you need just some hole you can cover up
[14:35:35] <Tom_itx> you need suction
[14:35:51] <Tom_itx> and i wanted the inlet to be on top
[14:35:56] <creep> it sucks air in naturally somewhere, you just need to attach a tube
[14:36:02] <Tom_itx> yes
[14:36:04] <Tom_itx> on the bottom
[14:36:14] <Tom_itx> the halves also leak alot
[14:36:20] <Tom_itx> so i had to seal them
[14:36:26] <Tom_itx> for better suction
[14:37:10] <Tom_itx> the tee is just a release i keep my finger on in case some parts won't let go by themselves
[14:37:21] <Tom_itx> most of the time i don't have to move my finger off it
[14:41:39] <Tom_itx> bbl
[14:41:55] <creep> small soic and resistors, capacitors can be placed using tweezers, but tqfp and large chips especially need vacuum
[14:47:58] <RikusW> I placed m32u2 using tweezers, but is small, only 32pins
[14:48:21] <creep> it is easy to bend the legs, and drop it...
[14:48:34] <RikusW> I grabbed the corners
[14:49:13] <RikusW> later I made a jig using plastic for exact placement
[14:49:46] <RikusW> used wires pressed through the plastic into via's to keep it in place
[14:50:08] <RikusW> and cut a rectangular hole with one side open
[14:50:21] <creep> almost pick and place ...
[14:50:31] <RikusW> getting it just right was tricky....
[14:50:38] <creep> you might consider an aquarium pump and 3 axis
[14:50:40] <RikusW> had to make v2...
[14:50:56] <RikusW> I already soldered 100....
[14:51:04] <RikusW> won't need it again too soon...
[14:51:25] <creep> you made reflow oven too?
[14:51:40] <RikusW> no soldered with a regular iron
[14:51:46] <RikusW> using a Plato EW-103 tip
[14:51:59] <creep> ( tip doesn't matter )
[14:52:00] <RikusW> its a 5mm wide flat tip
[14:52:10] <RikusW> the tip DOES matter...
[14:52:32] <RikusW> the EW-103 works much better than anything else I tried
[14:52:41] <RikusW> it does 4 or 5 pins at a time
[14:52:43] <creep> as long as you have flux, and a wick it does not
[14:52:57] <RikusW> no need for wick when using that tip
[14:53:13] <RikusW> it can remove solder bridges easily
[14:53:22] <creep> i see
[14:53:43] <RikusW> the 90 degree corner just sucks it up like magic
[14:53:58] <RikusW> a little flux required of course
[14:54:19] <creep> hello mr uv
[14:54:30] <OSterver> I am almost IR
[14:55:38] <RikusW> creep: google -> plato ew-103 tip
[14:55:54] <RikusW> I suspect EW-105 will work even faster
[14:56:16] <RikusW> !seen railgun
[14:56:19] <uv> hello Sirs
[14:56:33] <RikusW> CANUCK
[14:56:34] <tobbor> yankie, yankie, yankie.
[14:56:38] <RikusW> !seen railgun
[14:56:38] <tobbor> Railgun was last seen in #avr on Feb 14 18:02 2012
[14:57:00] <RikusW> hi uv
[14:57:18] <RikusW> seems all tobbor needed was a wakeup call :-P
[14:58:01] <RikusW> creep: the LTD tip is almost the same, Railgun used that
[14:58:36] <creep> i do reflowing anyway
[14:59:04] <RikusW> creep: the 90 degree cornet is important, if its > 90 it doesn't work as well or at all
[14:59:12] <RikusW> *corner
[15:01:08] <creep> i believe the half egg shaped hole is the best for sucking in solder, best would be iron plated ofcourse
[15:08:25] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: I like that pick 'n place a lot :P
[15:10:02] * RikusW is wondering how to split a 220MB pdf into smaller parts....
[15:10:21] <RikusW> its like a 5733 page document....
[15:10:34] <creep> i made an 0.1 version using a syringe, put a spring inside, and glued an insuline syringe rubber plug with FBS, for a clean tqfp it worked fairly
[15:11:25] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Preview in OSX can do it if it isn't protected
[15:11:54] <JyZyXEL> how do i do comparison on a 10 bit value in ADCH and ADCL?
[15:12:07] <megal0maniac> I'd say you can send it here, but... :P
[15:12:52] <JyZyXEL> this tutorial im reading tells to shift the value so it becomes 8bit
[15:14:30] <JyZyXEL> do i just use ADC instead?
[15:14:40] <JyZyXEL> like: if (ADC < 1000)
[15:15:03] <RikusW> megal0maniac: yeah right, I'll just email it, then it will be 293MB big instead...
[15:15:23] <megal0maniac> :)
[15:15:24] <creep> JyZyXEL<< advantage of comparator may only be it is faster
[15:15:47] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you know that attachments become bigger right ? /3 * 4
[15:15:52] <JyZyXEL> what does that mean?
[15:16:23] <megal0maniac> No, I didn't actually. Why?
[15:16:24] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: tyr ADC instead its easier
[15:16:38] <megal0maniac> Inefficient checksum data? :P
[15:16:44] <RikusW> megal0maniac: because of the encoding used, emails may only use 7 bits....
[15:17:06] <RikusW> check some email source that contains an attachment....
[15:18:13] <megal0maniac> Learn something new every day :)
[15:18:46] <RikusW> sending attachments bigger than 1MB is a bad idea, especially for me on GPRS
[15:19:04] <RikusW> and to make matters worse POP doesn't support resuming :S :S
[15:19:22] <RikusW> !@$ archaic protocols....
[15:19:26] <megal0maniac> I was amazed that 7zip can only create .tar files
[15:19:40] <megal0maniac> No .tar.bz
[15:19:53] <RikusW> why ?
[15:20:06] <RikusW> use .7z instead
[15:20:33] <megal0maniac> I do. I just find it odd that there's no .bz. As far as I understand it, .tar is the container and .bz is the compression, right?
[15:20:48] <RikusW> yes
[15:20:58] <RikusW> Tape ARchive
[15:21:18] <RikusW> bz can compress only a single file
[15:21:42] <RikusW> so if compressing a single file like my big pdf, no tar required
[15:21:48] <RikusW> .pdf.bz :)
[15:21:56] <megal0maniac> lol
[15:21:59] <megal0maniac> Cool :)
[15:22:10] <megal0maniac> K, time to buy tweezers!
[15:22:13] <RikusW> vim can actually read .txt.gz files
[15:22:19] <RikusW> iirc
[15:22:51] <tld> Hmm.
[15:23:01] <tld> The city I live in just got a new compact firetruck.
[15:23:07] <RikusW> megal0maniac: in linux you say --> tar cjf file.tbz somedir
[15:23:07] <tld> With an insane water-power.
[15:23:17] <tld> Goes through 10mm think steel in 20 seconds apparently.
[15:23:20] <tld> that's… damn.
[15:23:28] <RikusW> OOOH !!
[15:23:37] <megal0maniac> tld: My dad just got Siri (IOS6)
[15:23:47] <megal0maniac> I think he's made a new friend
[15:23:57] <tld> I still don't get why people want Siri. Doesn't it send everything back to Apple?
[15:23:57] <RikusW> tld: what does it doe to flesh ?!!
[15:24:02] <creep> http://academy.cba.mit.edu/2012/students/delgado.roberto/pagina16.html
[15:24:11] <tld> RikusW: Well, this is one water-canon I hope they don't use for crowd control.
[15:24:30] <RikusW> tld: crowd slicing rather....
[15:24:55] <megal0maniac> tld: Yeah, it warns you when you turn it on.
[15:25:06] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Crowd BLASTING!
[15:25:14] <tld> megal0maniac: they why would people *use* it?
[15:25:19] <tld> must be something I'm not getting.
[15:26:39] <megal0maniac> tld: I suppose some people don't mind
[15:27:15] <tld> hmm.
[15:29:02] <megal0maniac> tld: Same reason people use Google. The convenience is worth ignoring (or justifying) the implications, if any
[15:30:06] <tld> yes, but Google fills a function you need "something" to fill, I'm not sure if Siri does?
[15:30:46] <megal0maniac> You'd be surprised at some people :P
[15:30:59] <megal0maniac> It's just "way too cool" to leave alone
[15:32:43] <tld> but it's optional, so you don't *need* to use it?
[15:33:21] <megal0maniac> Bing, Yahoo, Altavista, Duck Duck Go, etc...
[15:33:36] <JyZyXEL> is there a way i could define actual voltage levels and those would be translated to correct ADC values during compiling?
[15:36:45] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: you'll have to calculate that
[15:37:49] <JyZyXEL> im guessing 1023 means 1.1V?
[15:38:02] <RikusW> yes
[15:38:28] <RikusW> how did you do 1:12 ? 1k + 12k ?
[15:38:37] <JyZyXEL> yes
[15:38:39] <RikusW> or 1k + 11k ?
[15:38:42] <RikusW> ah
[15:38:50] <JyZyXEL> i did 1k and then 2k and 10k in series
[15:38:53] <JyZyXEL> to get the 12k
[15:39:33] <RikusW> you can actually get 12k resistors..
[15:39:48] <JyZyXEL> i only have basic values :(
[15:40:19] <RikusW> you have to divide the input voltage by 13 to get the ADC input voltage
[15:40:38] <RikusW> so when you measure 1v1 its a 14.3 input
[15:40:48] <RikusW> 1v1 == 1023
[15:41:20] <RikusW> 1k + 10k = /11
[15:41:40] <JyZyXEL> so for 12V its 12/13 = ~0.9231V
[15:41:48] <RikusW> yes
[15:42:35] <RikusW> would be 858
[15:43:16] <JyZyXEL> thats like 1024*0.9231/1.1
[15:44:41] <JyZyXEL> hmm but that would be 859?
[15:44:48] <JyZyXEL> am i off by one?
[15:45:11] <creep> calibrate.
[15:45:29] <RikusW> input V * 71.53846153846153846 == ADC
[15:45:43] <RikusW> 1023 / 13 / 1.1 = 71.53....
[15:45:58] <creep> is your adc reference a 0.5% precision voltage reference?
[15:46:24] <JyZyXEL> its the internal 1V1
[15:46:51] <creep> then its definitely worse
[15:47:43] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: how accurate does it need to be ?
[15:48:08] <JyZyXEL> well its for battery low voltage cutoff so not very accurate
[15:48:14] <creep> 1 digits i guess
[15:48:30] <creep> 0.1V
[15:48:35] <JyZyXEL> that would be enough
[15:48:59] <RikusW> then you can calculate the right value and use the AVR to compare with that instead of converting the ADC to V
[15:49:23] <creep> for 12V sealed lead acid you have a 10.5V lvc minimum
[15:49:46] <JyZyXEL> i was thinking "anything under 11V"
[15:49:47] <RikusW> 11V would be ~~ 781 for example
[15:50:16] <RikusW> 10.5 == 751
[15:50:41] <JyZyXEL> yeah so once ADC < 781 we turn off the fet thats powering the load and go to sleep mode
[15:50:52] <creep> so off by 1 means nothing ...
[15:50:58] <JyZyXEL> and don't wake up until voltage is much more higher again
[15:51:14] <RikusW> creep: it means a few mV ;)
[15:51:15] <JyZyXEL> because lead acid voltage raises after a while
[15:51:39] <JyZyXEL> and thats no reason to switch on the load again!
[15:51:56] <RikusW> say higher than 12v ?
[15:52:04] <RikusW> or 11.5 ?
[15:52:21] <JyZyXEL> i think according to wikipedia it might come back up to 11.7V
[15:52:44] <creep> yeah, like 10.5/11V off/on
[15:52:51] <creep> for a few A load
[15:53:05] <creep> for a few mA you better go higher
[15:57:03] <Tom_itx> creep i used to use tweezers for caps resistors etc but it's actually quicker with the suction
[15:57:21] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Okay. I'm ordering tweezers. Also have are 2mm solder wick. Anything else I should get??
[15:57:26] <megal0maniac> -?
[15:58:06] <megal0maniac> Or @Tom_itx or anyone with a suggestion :)
[15:58:12] <megal0maniac> I'm trying DX, eventually
[15:58:13] <vectory> a magnifying glass
[15:58:25] <megal0maniac> vectory: I have a 10x watchmakers loupe
[15:58:31] <megal0maniac> So that's good
[15:58:36] <Tom_itx> if you can still get em, a flux pen
[15:58:47] <Tom_itx> like a magic marker but with flux
[15:58:52] <JyZyXEL> if (ADC < 781) {
[15:59:00] <megal0maniac> Is it something worth spending a bit more on for better quality?
[15:59:03] <JyZyXEL> if voltage is under 11V?
[15:59:04] <JyZyXEL> right?
[15:59:06] <megal0maniac> Because I can get that here
[15:59:14] <megal0maniac> Tweezers too, but what the heck
[15:59:23] <RikusW> megal0maniac: wick is a good idea
[15:59:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
[15:59:25] <creep> megal0maniac<< for what?
[15:59:32] <Tom_itx> my flux pen is by the mouse there
[16:00:05] <creep> megal0maniac<< any anti magnetic for $˘is good
[16:00:07] <RikusW> hi vectory
[16:00:10] <creep> $4
[16:00:14] <vectory> hi RikusW
[16:00:25] <RikusW> vectory: so now both you and megal0maniac have a U2S ;)
[16:00:59] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: seems right
[16:00:59] <megal0maniac> creep: For 0805 and SOT23 :)
[16:01:02] <Tom_itx> oh yeah, solder wick
[16:01:13] <megal0maniac> 2mm? Or 1.5 or 3?
[16:01:17] <Tom_itx> yes
[16:01:23] <megal0maniac> ...
[16:01:25] <Tom_itx> i have several sizes
[16:01:35] <vectory> i see megal0maniac is busier than i am
[16:01:44] <creep> megal0maniac<< you can shape the tip to be perfect using diamond sandpaper/grinder
[16:01:54] <Tom_itx> are you all in SA?
[16:02:10] <RikusW> Tom_itx: me and megal0maniac is
[16:02:23] <OSterver> I just have to ask
[16:02:24] <Tom_itx> i knew you were
[16:02:25] <OSterver> are you fast runners?
[16:02:27] <RikusW> and scuzzy, but haven't seen him in a while....
[16:02:30] <Tom_itx> heh
[16:02:32] <Tom_itx> OSterver
[16:02:36] <megal0maniac> !seen scuzzy
[16:02:36] <tobbor> scuzzy was last seen in #avr on Jun 13 13:35 2012
[16:02:41] <Tom_itx> that's Jamaca
[16:02:47] <megal0maniac> Lol
[16:02:48] <OSterver> and kenya
[16:02:53] <megal0maniac> Or Ethiopia, I think
[16:02:53] <OSterver> and anywhere where are lions or tigers
[16:03:02] <megal0maniac> I know one Ethiopian and he's fat
[16:03:07] <megal0maniac> So maybe not
[16:03:08] <Tom_itx> or being chased by da law
[16:03:14] <OSterver> hehe
[16:03:38] <OSterver> one of my friends in the US who is ... wider... was busted in the US, he had quite a nice "lawn" on his garden
[16:03:41] <OSterver> *if you know what I mean*
[16:03:48] <RikusW> megal0maniac: scuzzy also lives in CT
[16:05:36] <megal0maniac> Ah, cool. In the "big city" :P
[16:05:54] <vectory> OSterver: i hear weed is kinda legal in .cz now, is it true?
[16:06:42] <OSterver> no
[16:06:47] <megal0maniac> FINAL ORDER: Tweezers (angled & straight), 1.5mm wick, 2.5mm wick, flux pen
[16:07:17] <megal0maniac> Yes? No? Should I get a tracking number? :P
[16:07:24] <creep> megal0maniac<< maybe you want a soldering station with hotair, and a reflow oven too
[16:07:30] <OSterver> you don't need tracking
[16:07:34] <megal0maniac> creep: Not on this budget :P
[16:07:35] <OSterver> haha
[16:07:54] <megal0maniac> $11.42
[16:08:22] <creep> megal0maniac<< a few ten thousand +- counts?
[16:08:35] <RikusW> megal0maniac: Mantech does have liquid flux, 250ml for R50
[16:09:06] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Is it worth rather getting it from them?
[16:09:07] <RikusW> and it lasts forever
[16:09:23] <RikusW> if there is no postage....
[16:09:26] <creep> now i know what you all sniff ;>>
[16:09:43] <RikusW> just get a syringe and needle to apply it with
[16:10:12] <creep> how about an insuline syringe with thin needle?
[16:10:13] <RikusW> creep: you can sniff iso-propanol....
[16:10:30] <RikusW> might work
[16:10:44] <RikusW> I used a big 10cc + long thick needle
[16:10:50] <RikusW> its easier to grab
[16:10:55] <creep> waste of flux
[16:11:02] <creep> more to sniff
[16:11:04] <OSterver> mm sniffing
[16:11:08] <OSterver> IPA is awesome for sniffing
[16:11:14] <OSterver> I prefer regular black markers though
[16:11:23] <creep> haha that condensates as acetone in your liver
[16:11:36] <RikusW> creep: depends on how you apply it, but its too easy to apply to much yes...
[16:12:13] <creep> yeah, flux will make you invulnerable
[16:13:11] <RikusW> creep I'd like to get some thio-acetone instead :-D
[16:14:10] <creep> flux is probably good enough, i prefer no-clean
[16:14:29] <RikusW> if I drop some of that in this channel it will be empty real soon :-D
[16:14:32] <JyZyXEL> one thing i would like in my solvent arsenal is ethanol thats not denatured
[16:14:37] <creep> but you can always choose an rma activated stuff
[16:15:10] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Crap. Flux pen from Mantech is like R200
[16:15:29] <RikusW> megal0maniac: thats why i tell you to get the liquid
[16:15:37] <RikusW> much cheaper
[16:15:57] <creep> though that pours all over if you apply too much
[16:16:09] <RikusW> thio-acetone = H3C-SO-CH3 = very very stink
[16:16:19] <vectory> JyZyXEL: destillate from whisky
[16:16:20] <creep> and probably absorbed well through your skin too
[16:16:46] <JyZyXEL> vectory: does it require a lot of chemistry equipment?
[16:16:57] <vectory> heck do i know
[16:17:08] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: you could try getting it from a pharmacy
[16:17:23] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'm thinking I'll get the flux pen from DX. Not even sure if I'll need it and 200ml is a lot for something I don't need. Plus I'll have to drive there
[16:17:35] <OSterver> to dx?
[16:17:44] <creep> hmm air outside is worse than inside when i reflow ;/
[16:17:49] <JyZyXEL> RikusW: i think there are laws forbidding selling it
[16:17:59] <JyZyXEL> such a high risk of "abuse"
[16:18:20] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Heh. No :)
[16:18:28] <megal0maniac> 15km to Mantech, more or less
[16:18:37] <RikusW> JyZyXEL: you could always ask
[16:18:37] <creep> idiot civils burning rubber and thrash
[16:19:13] <RikusW> megal0maniac: my nearest Mantech branch is 220km, stop complaining :-P
[16:19:18] <OSterver> :D
[16:19:24] <OSterver> do you live in some desert or what
[16:19:30] <OSterver> (one would think so since you have GPRS)
[16:19:36] <RikusW> on a farm
[16:19:48] <creep> in texas?
[16:19:56] <RikusW> South Africa
[16:20:02] <megal0maniac> But shipping is freeee :D
[16:20:17] <RikusW> from Mantech ?!
[16:20:18] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: http://dx.com/p/lead-free-soldering-flux-pen-133931
[16:20:25] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Ha! No. I wish
[16:20:29] <megal0maniac> From DX, in China
[16:20:37] * RikusW too :(
[16:20:55] <megal0maniac> How much is it to get stuff to you?
[16:21:10] <RikusW> depends, R85 or so...
[16:21:20] <RikusW> RS is free
[16:21:38] <creep> i think i should move to some cold unpopulated mountain above the snowline
[16:21:46] <megal0maniac> It is indeed. I'll let you know when I go to Mantech again. If you want anything then i can post it
[16:21:51] <RikusW> why ?
[16:22:05] <OSterver> megal0maniac, I'd say get it off ebay - a bit cheaper and you don't have to wait 1 month before they ship it :)
[16:22:10] <RikusW> megal0maniac: thanks
[16:22:28] <megal0maniac> OSterver: How long does it take?
[16:22:32] <megal0maniac> (DX)
[16:22:33] <OSterver> sometimes a month
[16:22:35] <OSterver> sometimes a week
[16:23:37] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I tried telling MT many times to use cheaper postage, but they insist on overnight :S
[16:24:07] <RikusW> maybe I should start complaining again...
[16:25:11] <megal0maniac> OSterver: The stuff with free shipping on ebay is all from China, so might take just as long
[16:25:49] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'll probably go next week some time
[16:26:06] <OSterver> the difference is
[16:26:12] <OSterver> that on dx it is 1 month before they ship it sometimes!
[16:27:03] <megal0maniac> OSterver: I know, but I'm cheap and patient :)
[16:27:37] <OSterver> heh
[16:28:00] <OSterver> btw, if I were to do some small scope, I would go for some 30 - 100MSPS chips from ADI probably
[16:28:16] <OSterver> they are fairly cheap (80 MSPS for $3.4 - 8bit, 1 channel)
[16:28:25] <OSterver> and FPGA to drive them
[16:28:30] <OSterver> and the display too
[16:28:39] <OSterver> mayyyybe some processor
[16:28:53] <OSterver> something small but fast
[16:29:27] <OSterver> http://www.analog.com/ps/psthandler.aspx?pstid=10169&la=en
[16:29:28] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you can just as well get to 200ml flux agent, it will last you a lifetime :-P
[16:29:48] <RikusW> once you start using it, you'll use it on throughhole as well...
[16:30:05] <creep> isn't is best before 2-5 years properly stored?
[16:30:13] <vectory> OSterver: design modular, no need for the processor then
[16:30:41] <RikusW> not sure
[16:30:47] <OSterver> modular... too big
[16:34:56] <OSterver> mm I like tuesdays... only one class at school and there is zero learning :)
[16:35:27] <JyZyXEL> damnit i wish i could actually SEE the values ADC is giving u_u
[16:35:39] <JyZyXEL> because its not acting at all like i assume it should be
[16:36:36] <RikusW> send it via serial port ?
[16:36:39] <OSterver> set up a serial link
[16:36:40] <OSterver> :)
[16:36:52] <OSterver> serial port for debugging FTW
[16:37:09] <JyZyXEL> i have none of that stuff in place
[16:37:21] <JyZyXEL> just attiny85 and ISP
[16:37:31] <megal0maniac> Ooh. No uart
[16:37:32] <OSterver> not a single USB-UART adaptor? :(
[16:37:33] <JyZyXEL> and a LED
[16:37:41] <OSterver> make the LED blink the number :P
[16:37:45] <megal0maniac> But the t85 only has USI
[16:38:16] <JyZyXEL> i wonder if i need sample buffers and averaging
[16:38:49] <JyZyXEL> and can i just do: ADCSRA |= (1 << ADSC); if (ADC < 781) { LED_PORT = 0; }
[16:39:21] <JyZyXEL> it actually makes the led blink at some voltage levels....
[16:39:32] <OSterver> you need to wait for the result to come
[16:39:41] <RikusW> t85 does have debugWire, but you probably don't have a dragon ?
[16:39:42] <JyZyXEL> i thought it does wait automatically?
[16:40:50] <OSterver> no
[16:40:59] <OSterver> it is peripheral
[16:41:01] <OSterver> it is not in the core
[16:42:48] <JyZyXEL> ADSC will read as one as long as a conversion is in progress. When the conversion is complete, it returns to zero. Writing zero to this bit has no effect.
[16:42:52] <JyZyXEL> do i use that fact for detection?
[16:43:03] <OSterver> yes
[16:44:23] <JyZyXEL> while (ADSC != 0) ;
[16:45:27] <OSterver> no
[16:45:35] <OSterver> while(ADCSRA & ADSC);
[16:48:48] <JyZyXEL> i can't get it to work :\
[16:50:02] <JyZyXEL> i think its stuck on that because led doesn't change state at all
[16:50:07] <JyZyXEL> no matter what i do to voltage
[16:51:29] <JyZyXEL> do you first have to wait that ADSC becomes 1 and THEN wait for it to become 0?
[16:53:38] <JyZyXEL> {
[16:54:24] <JyZyXEL> int adc_wait(void) { /* FIXME: add a timeout failure case */ while (ADCSRA & _BV(ADSC)) delay_ms(1); return 0; }
[16:55:03] <JyZyXEL> whats the point of waiting 1ms
[16:55:33] <megal0maniac> Give the ADC a chance to "settle"
[16:56:25] <JyZyXEL> sounds like i want sampling if there is some "settling"
[16:56:37] <JyZyXEL> and averaging
[16:57:13] <JyZyXEL> /* read 10-bit value from ADCH:ADCL. MUST read low-byte first */ adc_val = ADCL; adc_val |= (ADCH << 8);
[16:57:23] <JyZyXEL> ??? why not use ADC?
[17:08:36] <OSterver> I am too tired and tomorrow I am getting up... in 6 hours
[17:08:37] <OSterver> gn
[17:08:48] <megal0maniac> 'Night :)
[17:10:05] <JyZyXEL> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pH54e9dy
[17:10:07] <JyZyXEL> theres my code
[17:10:16] <JyZyXEL> im gonna need help because i can't figure out what im doing wrong
[17:10:54] <JyZyXEL> hell the led turns off when voltage is under 10V
[17:11:06] <JyZyXEL> at 10V it flashes
[17:11:17] <JyZyXEL> with not voltage input the led is turned off...
[17:11:47] <JyZyXEL> the led is supposed to be turned ON when the voltage is under 11V
[17:11:52] <Amadiro> 10V...? I don't know what chip you are using, but do your ADCs even tolerate that...?
[17:12:53] <JyZyXEL> theres a 1:12 voltage divider
[17:13:40] <Amadiro> ok
[17:17:47] <megal0maniac> YAY!
[17:18:07] <megal0maniac> I have successfully made a single channel bi-directional level translator
[17:18:17] <megal0maniac> With SMT components
[17:18:20] <JyZyXEL> i don't understand how such a trivial thing can be this hard
[17:18:21] <megal0maniac> On veroboard
[17:19:03] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/4MTgAl.jpg
[17:37:22] <jadew> JyZyXEL, the ADC is not very exact
[17:37:27] <jadew> it actually has a lot of noise
[17:37:46] <jadew> so you need to do sampling and decimation if you want something reliable
[17:38:47] <jadew> also, why are you writting code like that?
[17:39:13] <JyZyXEL> like what?
[17:39:36] <jadew> with weird identing
[17:39:53] <jadew> it's hard to read, are you using a 10" wide monitor in portrait mode?
[17:40:05] <JyZyXEL> its pastebins fault or something
[17:40:18] <jadew> got it
[17:40:24] <JyZyXEL> or my fault not converting tabs to spaces
[17:40:37] <jadew> you don't need the _delay_ms thing
[17:40:53] <jadew> I don't know why it's there, whoever wrote the example code
[17:41:12] <jadew> once that flag is up, the value is settled
[17:41:18] <jadew> there's nothing more to settle
[17:41:54] <jadew> so you can get rid of that
[17:42:25] <jadew> as for why ADCL first
[17:42:37] <JyZyXEL> i wonder how many samples i should take
[17:42:42] <jadew> it's because ADCH needs to be read last
[17:43:00] <jadew> to trigger something, like clearing a flag
[17:43:10] <jadew> you need to check the data sheet if your chip requires you to do that
[17:44:02] <jadew> take 8 samples, add them together >> 3
[17:44:34] <jadew> you can go for even more if it's not time critical and you can shift it out of even more bits
[17:44:42] <jadew> since you're only interrested in the upper ones
[17:45:16] <jadew> well, unless you want flawless precision
[17:47:20] * inflex wakes
[18:07:33] <iR0b0t1> How accurate would a cheap µC be after timing for about a week on its internal RC clock? Like if I tell it to time for what should be a week, how off would it probably end up being?
[18:09:52] <karlp> iR0b0t1: well, the internal RC is only specced for +-10% on most avrs I've looked at,
[18:10:01] <karlp> and it's not at all specced for use as an RTC.
[18:10:21] <megal0maniac> xmega is much better though
[18:10:22] <karlp> I can't remember the specs on drift or tempco,
[18:10:36] <megal0maniac> But the mega and tiny are +-10%
[18:10:42] <karlp> sure, but even 1% is useless as a RTC for instance
[18:10:51] <karlp> perfectly awesome for reliable uarts and so on,
[18:14:56] <megal0maniac> iR0b0t1: Crystals are cheap anyways :)
[18:14:59] <megal0maniac> 'Night
[18:18:23] <karlp> cheap, but take up space, more parts, more moneh
[18:25:03] <iR0b0t1> hmm alright thanks
[18:30:38] <karlp> what are yo uhoping to use it for?
[18:40:20] <creep> use the 32768Hz quartz crystal from any scrap motherboard :P
[18:41:15] <karlp> tinys and megas only hav eone clock at a time, so unless you want to run like that all the time, you're a bit screwed
[18:41:28] <karlp> (also, not everyone has scrap motherboards lying around)
[18:41:48] <creep> maybe a watch ?
[18:41:55] <creep> ( it is a watch crystal )
[18:46:19] <jadew> these days, someone is more likely to have scrap motherboards than wrist watches
[18:46:33] <karlp> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/9B-8.000MEEJ-B/887-1233-ND/2207653 is 56c and 10ppm stability and tolerance...
[18:46:42] <Amadiro> either way, crystals are not expensive...
[18:46:43] <karlp> jumbotron case of course,
[18:46:48] <creep> or junkyard
[18:47:10] <r00t|home> karlp: like, wrong? some avrs support a secondary clock crystal to run an rtc on a timer...
[18:47:40] <karlp> yeah, emphasis on some.
[18:47:41] <creep> btw about every clock has a watch ccrystal that takes a battery
[18:47:47] <Amadiro> r00t|home, the xmegas certainly do, but do the tinys/megas?
[18:48:11] <r00t|home> i'm pretty sure i read about it... no idea which one
[18:48:36] <creep> or... they could just use the watch crystal and pl up a higher clock if needed
[18:48:42] <creep> *pll
[18:48:50] <karlp> very few of them have the pll to go up either creep :)
[18:49:06] <karlp> they can divide down, but that's it.
[18:49:16] <creep> well it'd be superior
[18:50:04] <creep> stable RTC all the time, micropower by default, and pll clock
[18:50:13] <Amadiro> You can also get something like a DS1307 which you can query over SPI.
[18:50:40] <karlp> creep: yeah, like a whole pile of modern 32bit micros?
[18:50:42] <r00t|home> "AVR134: Real Time Clock (RTC) using the Asynchronous Timer" "written for the ATmega103" -- http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc1259.pdf
[18:51:09] <creep> what is your opinion about DSPs?
[18:51:22] <creep> i see very few of them used
[18:52:12] <Amadiro> creep, I do not use them myself, but I see them being used a lot
[18:52:14] <r00t|home> mega328 has it: "The ATMega provides a higly accurate (moreso than the normal 16 MHz crystal) super low power clock using a special feature of TIMER2. TIMER2 can generate its own clock, separate from the normal system clock. It uses external watch crystal crystal connected to the TOSC1 and TOSC2 pins." -- http://kineticsandelectronics.com/sleep
[18:52:34] <creep> Amadiro<< where do they use them?
[18:52:44] <r00t|home> karlp: so, there...
[18:53:45] <Amadiro> creep, everywhere signal processing is of value, I assume. Most conferences I've attended so far that were about programmable logic or embedded designs featured talks about DSPs.
[18:54:14] <Amadiro> creep, as I said, I don't use them myself, so I don't have comprehensive knowledge about the applications or anything, but one example are oscilloscopes
[18:54:33] <Tom_itx> ds1307 http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/RTC3.jpg
[18:56:34] <karlp> yes, it let's you clock one of it's input with an extra clock, ok. (also, it's not moreso or highly anything, it's only as good as the crystal you connect. timer2 can be clocked from an extra source, you're right.
[18:57:00] <Amadiro> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/99 if you wanna shell out 14 bucks
[18:57:53] <r00t|home> karlp: any 32768Hz clock crystal is as good as any 32768Hz clock crystal... ;)
[18:59:16] <karlp> that wasn't aimed at yuou, more at the datasheet writer
[18:59:44] <karlp> you're right though, I'd never ntoiced that clockign option on the timer.
[19:00:04] <karlp> I wonder why they don't mention it in the clocks section of the datasheet?
[19:00:46] <r00t|home> the megas support exactly what waw suggested above, to solve the rtc problem, without scarificing the main system clock...
[19:00:49] <r00t|home> don't ask me ;)
[19:01:24] <r00t|home> you should have quoted the part of the datasheet you are criticizing
[19:01:41] <r00t|home> that quote was not from the datasheet, just from that webpage
[19:01:55] <r00t|home> (unless they copied from the datasheet)
[19:02:00] <karlp> oh, fair enough
[19:02:12] <karlp> let's just reiterate, incase anyone missed it.
[19:02:14] <karlp> I was wrong.
[19:02:21] <r00t|home> bwahahaha
[19:02:31] <karlp> even tiny and mega avrs have another clock source
[19:03:15] <karlp> it is sitll different to letting the system run off that clock source at some times., but that's a fine distinction that doesn't really matter at this point
[20:35:40] <Richard_Cavell> Good morning everyone
[20:35:44] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac_afk: how you doing?
[20:37:29] <Richard_Cavell> I am moving into my second 24 hours of being able to program an AVR chip
[20:41:47] <Richard_Cavell> Is ISP/PDI the "usual" method of programming an AVR?
[20:43:08] <Horologium> ISP is.
[20:43:48] <Horologium> connect the programmer to the MISO, MOSI, SCK, RESET, and GND pins and away you go. Long as they aren't in use by some other part of the circuit.
[20:44:05] <Horologium> ISP being In System Programming after all.
[20:49:44] <Richard_Cavell> what does PDI stand for?
[20:58:16] <Richard_Cavell> And how come there's no PC7 pin?
[20:59:18] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: are you there?
[20:59:23] <Kevin`> pdi is xmega's interface (aside from jtag). works over one pin, kind of neat
[20:59:50] <Kevin`> well, two pins
[21:00:24] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: some devices have incomplete pins
[21:00:31] <Richard_Cavell> it stands for program and debug interface
[21:00:39] <Richard_Cavell> Casper: Well that's no bloody good
[21:00:41] <Casper> basically they took a bigger device and stripped it down
[21:00:49] <Casper> and sell it cheaper
[21:01:17] <Kevin`> Richard_Cavell: it's because there's more port space than pins on the device in question
[21:01:24] <Casper> it just puzzle the programmers a bit, but it's all fine
[21:01:26] <Kevin`> not a multiple of 8 or so
[21:25:55] <SoCo_cpp__> dang Win AVR trashed my Path variable and made several things mysteriously stop working like Qt Creator using mingw couldn't compile, gave a weird error, and my existing Cygwin install was rendered helpless
[21:26:22] <SoCo_cpp__> took a few days to figure out what was wrong from the obscure symptoms
[21:26:35] <theBear> hehe, like veneral disease
[21:26:46] <theBear> venereal that is
[21:27:05] <CapnKernel> I wouldn't know
[21:28:35] <SoCo_cpp__> I was getting weird errors from mingw make like 90613 [main] sh 7052 sync_with_child: *** child state waiting for longjmp ....was scratchin my head for awhile.
[21:29:35] <SoCo_cpp__> Finally figured it out digging through Windows Event logs.
[21:33:33] <NovceGur1> Anybody have some experience with the chinese jtagice mkII clones? Worth it?
[21:35:07] <Tom_itx> no
[21:36:07] <Tom_itx> the one i have won't do PDI
[21:36:17] <Tom_itx> or the newer chips
[21:36:22] <NovceGur1> lame
[21:36:26] <Tom_itx> be aware of that going into it
[21:36:37] <Tom_itx> make sure you know what it says it will do
[21:36:42] <NovceGur1> so they arent an exact clone of the actual hardware that I thought they might be
[21:37:06] <Tom_itx> appearances they look the same
[21:37:25] <NovceGur1> well, I was thinking arduino clones kinda thing, where it's literally the exact same hardware
[21:37:39] <NovceGur1> google is saying no though
[21:37:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/avricemkii.jpg
[21:37:44] <Tom_itx> there's mine
[21:38:18] <Tom_itx> device support is the issue
[21:38:32] <NovceGur1> yeah, I'm using the atxmega128d4, which is pretty new
[21:38:37] <Tom_itx> i can update it in studio but it still won't support the PDI protocol during isp programming
[21:38:47] <NovceGur1> I guess I'll just bend over for Atmel, haha
[21:38:58] <Tom_itx> get an avrone :D
[21:39:33] <Tom_itx> the dragon is the cheap alternative
[21:39:51] <NovceGur1> hmm, I didnt see that one
[21:39:54] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked at it's latest device support
[21:39:57] <Tom_itx> they're $50
[21:40:08] <NovceGur1> supports all it seems
[21:40:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon3a.jpg
[21:40:16] <Tom_itx> there's mine
[21:40:35] <NovceGur1> nice case :D
[21:40:37] <Tom_itx> do you need jtag or just what?
[21:40:45] <Tom_itx> it's the box it ships in
[21:40:53] <NovceGur1> PDI
[21:41:01] <Tom_itx> my programmer does pdi
[21:41:07] <Tom_itx> isp pdi and tpi
[21:41:12] <Tom_itx> no jtag or hvpp
[21:41:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[21:41:35] <NovceGur1> *PDI support only on selected devices. See device support list
[21:42:11] <Tom_itx> it shows up as an avrisp mkii
[21:42:19] <Tom_itx> works in studio and avrdude
[21:42:35] <NovceGur1> supports the atxmega128d4?
[21:42:44] <Tom_itx> far as i know it does
[21:43:05] <Tom_itx> it does pdi
[21:43:18] <Tom_itx> and works under studio 4 5 and 6
[21:43:20] <Tom_itx> and avrdude
[21:43:29] <NovceGur1> hmm
[21:44:26] <NovceGur1> where does it ship from? I'm in a hurry haha
[21:44:33] <Tom_itx> us
[21:44:44] <Tom_itx> where are you?
[21:44:44] <NovceGur1> well, whcih state
[21:44:47] <NovceGur1> ohio
[21:44:47] <Tom_itx> ks
[21:44:52] <Tom_itx> 2 days i bet
[21:44:58] <Tom_itx> i can send it tomorrow
[21:45:11] <NovceGur1> I'll give it a shot
[21:45:12] <NovceGur1> :D
[21:45:33] <NovceGur1> does it come with a PDI cable?
[21:45:36] <NovceGur1> yes
[21:45:44] <Tom_itx> it comes with the 6pin flat cable
[21:45:45] * NovceGur1 reads better
[21:46:04] <Tom_itx> you'll need the usb side
[21:46:06] <NovceGur1> so it accepts atmels avrisp mkii firmware?
[21:46:12] <Tom_itx> no
[21:46:18] <Tom_itx> it's based on lufa
[21:46:27] <Tom_itx> but studio recognizes it
[21:46:31] <NovceGur1> otcha
[21:46:44] <Tom_itx> the software is open source
[21:46:56] <Tom_itx> dean wrote it
[21:47:26] <NovceGur1> https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP-MK2/
[21:47:32] <NovceGur1> uses lufa and says it supports the atxmega128d4
[21:47:35] <NovceGur1> w00t
[21:48:06] <Tom_itx> slow shipping too
[21:48:18] <NovceGur1> well I assume yours takes the same firmware
[21:48:24] <Richard_Cavell> I just performed my very first in-system programming of an AVR chip
[21:48:26] * Richard_Cavell takes a bow
[21:48:27] <Tom_itx> yep
[21:48:45] <NovceGur1> just a mini-usb cable right?
[21:48:46] <NovceGur1> Richard_Cavell: nice
[21:48:51] <Tom_itx> Richard_Cavell let's hope the next step doesn't take so long
[21:48:57] <Tom_itx> NovceGur1, yes
[21:48:57] <Richard_Cavell> lol
[21:49:03] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: took me about a week but I got there
[21:49:11] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: Do you have any nicely made breakout cables?
[21:49:19] <Richard_Cavell> I'm sort of handbuilding with jumper wires here
[21:49:37] <Tom_itx> it's best that way
[21:49:40] <NovceGur1> Tom_itx: weird, did that order have an address?
[21:49:48] <Tom_itx> you gain much appreciation for things that way
[21:49:53] <Tom_itx> ?
[21:50:01] <Tom_itx> did you order already?
[21:50:05] <NovceGur1> yes
[21:50:19] <NovceGur1> stupid paypal
[21:50:28] <Tom_itx> no street
[21:50:32] <Tom_itx> just the city
[21:50:36] <Tom_itx> hang on
[21:50:43] <NovceGur1> thats the fourth paypal order I've done this evening, haha ughhh
[21:51:13] <Tom_L> NovceGur1, pm me the info
[21:52:30] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: I'll show you a photo of what I'm doing
[21:56:35] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: http://imagebin.org/230586
[21:56:58] <Richard_Cavell> See that little tent of jumper cables above my breadboard? That's my handmade breakout wire collection
[21:59:01] <Richard_Cavell> I got flashing LEDs baby
[22:00:59] <Tom_itx> cool
[22:01:27] <Richard_Cavell> I just showed my Mum, and she was impresse
[22:01:27] <Richard_Cavell> d
[22:01:56] <Richard_Cavell> I'm impressed at how quickly the AVR starts up after reset
[22:04:46] <theBear> lol, got a big enough programmer there ?
[22:04:52] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[22:04:55] <Richard_Cavell> it's a stk600
[22:05:02] <theBear> damn, it's big
[22:05:04] <theBear> :)
[22:05:08] <Richard_Cavell> Do your programmers work off avrdude?
[22:05:38] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:05:49] <theBear> of course, i got a rifraf, a resistors only 'stk200' style, and umm, that's probly all assembled currently
[22:05:51] <Richard_Cavell> what option do you give to -c ?
[22:05:54] <Tom_itx> i told you that before you got the stk
[22:07:00] <Tom_itx> avrdude -c avrisp2 -p m128 -P usb -C "C:\WinAVR\bin\avrdude.conf" -U flash:w:C:\avrtest\atmega128\blink_led.hex:a
[22:07:52] <Richard_Cavell> does your programmer work with mega328p, mega168 and tiny85?
[22:08:00] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:08:06] <Tom_itx> all are isp right?
[22:08:12] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[22:08:20] <Tom_itx> it'll work
[22:08:40] <Richard_Cavell> your programmer doesn't do anything other than ISP/PDI?
[22:08:49] <Tom_itx> ISP PDI and TPI
[22:08:53] <Tom_itx> no jtag or hvpp
[22:09:08] <Richard_Cavell> stk600 does the lot
[22:09:17] <Richard_Cavell> but as you point out it's a little unwieldy for everyday portable use
[22:09:40] <Tom_itx> not your average pocket programmer, no
[22:12:36] <Richard_Cavell> what kind of breakout do you have?
[22:12:37] <Tom_itx> NovceGur1, it'll go out in the AM
[22:13:00] <Tom_itx> 6 pin 2x3 ribbon cable
[22:13:06] <Richard_Cavell> what's on the other end of it?
[22:13:10] <Tom_itx> i have a breadboard adapter if you need one
[22:13:11] <Richard_Cavell> like can I shove it in a breadboard?
[22:13:20] <Tom_itx> i'll show you what it looks like
[22:13:22] <Richard_Cavell> can you show me pics
[22:13:28] <Tom_itx> although it's pictured with other stuff
[22:13:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/breadboard/ISP_to_Breadboard.jpg
[22:14:05] <Tom_itx> mmm i forgot i had that pic :D
[22:14:32] <Richard_Cavell> right, and I presume there are 6 pins 2.54mm apart shoved onto that breadboard
[22:14:51] <Tom_itx> as the pic indicates
[22:15:20] <Richard_Cavell> why does it look like the white plastic has little blobs of solder where the holes should be?
[22:15:41] <Tom_itx> it's the end of the ribbon
[22:16:40] <Tom_itx> i should have given you a chinese version of the pic
[22:16:46] <Tom_itx> it wouldn't show up then
[22:16:57] <Richard_Cavell> No I just want reassurance that if I remove that thing from the white breadboard it's shoved into, there will be 6 jumper pins soldered in a row
[22:17:30] <Richard_Cavell> I was expecting the wires to be loose but I guess this way I just plug it into a spare 6 rows of my breadboard and run additional wires
[22:17:38] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:17:46] <Richard_Cavell> okay can you sell me one of those
[22:17:55] <Tom_itx> one of what?
[22:18:03] <Tom_itx> a programmer and adapter?
[22:18:04] <Richard_Cavell> I want the cable and a programmer
[22:18:11] <Tom_itx> i'll send you the adapter
[22:18:23] <Tom_itx> with a programmer if you need it
[22:18:43] <Richard_Cavell> I'd like to have some simpler method of programming than using my stk600
[22:19:09] <theBear> it probably won't be much simpler, just smaller and with no extraneous features
[22:19:29] <Tom_itx> theBear nothing seems simple with Mr Cavell
[22:19:32] <Richard_Cavell> that adapter alone is simpler than me running jumper wires myself
[22:19:43] <theBear> hehe, at least he got some leds flashing and impressed mum
[22:19:49] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:20:06] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, surely out of the 50 headers on that thing you got, one of them can be ribbon-cabled/connectored to a target board ?
[22:20:18] <Tom_itx> you're an aussie right?
[22:20:26] <theBear> too right cobber, struuuth !
[22:20:26] <Tom_itx> it'll take a week or more to arrive
[22:20:57] <theBear> qld eh ? go see lem at the hackerspace and use theirs :)
[22:22:52] <Richard_Cavell> I'm going tonight Bear
[22:23:11] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: Yeah but it's not neat
[22:23:18] <Tom_itx> i'm headin to sleep soon though so if you want it to go tomorrow....
[22:23:29] <Richard_Cavell> nah it's not super urgent
[22:23:44] <Tom_itx> i didn't figure it was
[22:23:50] <Tom_itx> since you have something already
[22:24:01] <Richard_Cavell> yeah I just want a solution with some finesse
[22:24:04] <Richard_Cavell> okay sell it to me Tom
[22:24:20] <Tom_itx> i've been trying for like 3 weeks
[22:24:22] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:25:53] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, no shit ? cool... say hi for me, if i'm around, grab the webcam address and paste it somewhere i can see it :)
[22:26:09] <theBear> Tom_itx, hehe, hard sell eh ? you'll never be a salesman at this rate :)
[22:26:24] <Tom_itx> it's all good
[22:26:26] <Richard_Cavell> theBear: Yeah there's a meeting tonight 6.30pm and I'll be there. I'll take my present project
[22:26:36] <Tom_itx> theBear, this started as an effort to help noobs
[22:27:07] <theBear> very good, be warned tho, meetings at places like that can be very cool, or very very boring if there's a few 'politician' types that just like to discuss silly bullshit at length :)
[22:27:24] <theBear> meetings at the uni computer club 20 years ago used to drive me mental
[22:27:46] * Richard_Cavell thinks Tom is calling him a noob
[22:27:50] <theBear> then they started making social nights compulsory, and some of them were fine, but i didn't wanna watch whatever the nerd-porn at the time was, probly stargate or something :)
[22:28:16] <theBear> Richard_Cavell, hehe nah, tho you do technically fall into the category he just described <grin>
[22:28:57] <Tom_itx> theBear, ever hear from becca anymore?
[22:29:25] <theBear> i bump into her round these parts maybe once every few months, sounds like real life caught up with her
[22:29:45] <Tom_itx> or your other little buddy
[22:29:47] <Tom_itx> ?
[22:29:49] <Tom_itx> rif
[22:30:26] <theBear> saw him a couple months ago in robotics for a half day or so, he seemed not too bad
[22:30:26] <Tom_itx> although he's up around gold coast i think
[22:30:33] <theBear> he is ? hmm...
[22:30:39] <Tom_itx> i thought he was
[22:30:52] <Tom_itx> unless he moved again
[22:31:32] <theBear> i can't keep up... i still feel terrible about the unpleasantness... it was part of the straws that broke his back and now we all miss him :(
[22:31:49] <theBear> found his mobile number the other day, dunno what i'd say tho...
[22:46:27] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: So what should I buy from your website?
[22:46:34] <Richard_Cavell> USBTiny mark 2 programmer?
[22:47:01] <Tom_itx> that's the one
[22:47:10] <Richard_Cavell> do you have the boxed ones?
[22:47:27] <Tom_itx> not currently. i need to make some more
[22:49:17] <Richard_Cavell> ok and if I buy the unboxed one you'll send me the adapater cable thing
[22:49:18] <Richard_Cavell> ?
[22:49:23] <Tom_itx> yup
[22:49:57] <Richard_Cavell> hey I see you have AVR parallel port programmers too
[22:49:59] <Richard_Cavell> I built one of those
[22:51:11] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: Okay I just bought one transaction ID 47A10372655001109
[22:51:15] <Richard_Cavell> using paypal
[23:08:52] <X-warrior> Hey guys, I want to create a wireless 433mhz talking network. So I think I need to create my own protocol, I was thinking to have a master asking every slave if they want to talk, if they want they talk, but if I need a system where anybody can talk any time. How can I do this? because I need to guarantee that just one peer is talking, otherwise my data will be wrong. right?
[23:11:13] <Mr_Sheesh> Could go with polling (master asks node 1 "Anything?", then 2 etc. in a round-robin fashion, or do what ethernet does - transmit, if not acknowledged wait a random time and try again
[23:12:17] <X-warrior> Is it possible, if I have a receiver and transmitter for example, the peer 0, says 0011 and listen to itself
[23:12:34] <X-warrior> if the data is received correctly, he can talk... otherwise there is someone talking
[23:13:38] <Mr_Sheesh> Not understanding - but I think you have the general idea. It's a good idea to checksum your packets so you know if it's a good or bad packet, also
[23:14:38] <X-warrior> the problem of ethernet ack is if I'm talking, and you start talking too, the host will receive the wrong data
[23:15:05] <Mr_Sheesh> and see that it got a bad packet, then resend
[23:15:14] <Mr_Sheesh> that's why you checksum
[23:17:39] <Mr_Sheesh> also, if a node doesn't send if anyone else is talking, it simplifies things - then a node could send a short packet (just it's node number and a request to talk maybe?) and maybe catch the master's attention
[23:20:17] <X-warrior> So I could do something where the node right before he talks he listen the enviroment for 500ms for example, if it is not checksun data, is just noise, then he ask to talk and the master say "go ahead" and then he starts talking. if anybody else wants to talk, it will see the checksun data in enviroment and wait until it gets noise..
[23:20:46] <Mr_Sheesh> Makes sense :) Should be able to wait for shorter times even I'd think
[23:21:27] <Mr_Sheesh> I'm about to work with some nrf24L01+ modules, 2.4 GHza, I've been seeing some code people use for those - Might be similar things you can use on 433MHz :)
[23:22:07] <X-warrior> Nice, I just got some nrf24L01 from china. I'm still thinking each one I will use, nrf or 433mhz
[23:22:37] <X-warrior> which* sorry
[23:27:12] <X-warrior> Have you seen anybody communicating on a similar situation with NRF24L01?
[23:29:55] <edboogie2011> has anybody here gotten CE certification for a design?
[23:30:07] <edboogie2011> How much does this typically cost?
[23:34:04] <Mr_Sheesh> X-warrior - There are libraries out there for them; http://maniacbug.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/getting-started-rf24/ for example
[23:34:23] <creep> what is the range of a good 2.4G tx rx ?
[23:34:30] <Mr_Sheesh> edboogie2011 - Sorry I'm in the US, here I know it's $20,000 or so last I saw to get UL listing.
[23:35:09] <Mr_Sheesh> creep - I've seen varying numbers, from 20 feet LOS to further. I think if you need a LONG distance, use a node with a better antenna.
[23:35:41] <X-warrior> Mr_Sheesh, I will take a look, thanks. I'm reading here, it seems that nrf has a built in auto-ack and auto-retransmit stuff
[23:35:43] <Mr_Sheesh> I was going to ask - what do people bypass Aref to ground with on ATMega168P's? I'm thinking 0.1uF or so?
[23:35:53] <creep> Mr_Sheesh<< 20 feet would be a little tight for R/C controlling aircraft
[23:36:12] <edboogie2011> Mr_Sheesh: is that estimate for a microcontroller design? Is it true that for designs with low voltage 5VDC, it is cheaper to get certified?
[23:36:12] <Mr_Sheesh> It has a LOT built in, yes - I'll be learning for a few months still, still waiting for hardware to come in
[23:36:30] <Mr_Sheesh> creep - I know.
[23:36:40] <edboogie2011> Since we use UL/CE listed 5VDC power supplies
[23:37:15] <edboogie2011> BTW i am in USA too
[23:37:42] <X-warrior> Mr_Sheesh, the shipping time here to Brazil makes me sad : (
[23:37:43] <edboogie2011> but i have an interested distributor in germany covering north europe, and I am figuring out how I can finance to get UL/CE
[23:37:43] <Mr_Sheesh> edboogie2011 - It was about that years ago, for a project I worked on the edges of. In the US if you use a UL listed power supply, you don't need UL certification of the main unit, as only things UL careas about really, are "don't start a house / business fire"
[23:38:32] <edboogie2011> Mr_Sheesh: right thats what i heard to so i made sure I used a UL listed power supply.. but I guess europe is much more strict on regulation
[23:38:43] <Mr_Sheesh> EU people are likely asleep now I'd think? As it is comething like 5:26 am there?
[23:39:05] <creep> 06 30
[23:39:12] <edboogie2011> I mean I heard you can't even bring in a single piece of electronic that is not ROHS... ROHS is soo redic. stupid
[23:39:20] <edboogie2011> yeah maybe I will ask later lol
[23:39:21] <edboogie2011> thanks.
[23:39:23] <Mr_Sheesh> Give them 2-3 hours and they should be awake :) I'm hoping someone knows on ARef :)
[23:39:51] <creep> Mr_Sheesh<< what do you want from EU ?
[23:39:55] <X-warrior> I'm going to sleep
[23:40:01] <X-warrior> thanks for your help Mr_Sheesh :D
[23:40:05] <Mr_Sheesh> I don't do anything ROHS atm, I do prototypes usually so just need 2-3 working units (so people can get venture capital.)
[23:40:12] <Mr_Sheesh> GL and YVW, X-warrior
[23:40:49] <Mr_Sheesh> creep - Was just saying that I'm not there, I'm in the US. Tho if they have a nice gal, ... uhm NVM :P
[23:40:53] <edboogie2011> european electronics regulation is a great example of the evils of regulation in our free market, and how we should vote for deregulation here in the US :)
[23:41:14] <edboogie2011> romney 2012
[23:41:29] <creep> Mr_Sheesh<< yeah good lookin' girls are here
[23:42:03] <creep> when it's enough
[23:42:21] <Mr_Sheesh> I've found that the heard counts for a LOT too - Both together, IDK if my karma'll support that :P
[23:42:58] <edboogie2011> this nRF24L01 is so dope.. does it come with a communications protocol that gaurantees a packet arrives .. i.e. a transport protocol like TCP?
[23:43:06] <edboogie2011> or do you have to write your own?.
[23:43:36] <creep> oh they have heart, but you can't make sure they are not stupid bitch
[23:43:43] <Mr_Sheesh> There are libraries out there for Arduino that handle most of it already - I'm doing the hardware now, my bookmarks are a MESS or I'd find you some more URLs.
[23:43:54] <edboogie2011> creep: what country's girls are you talking about?
[23:44:00] <creep> HU
[23:44:55] <edboogie2011> Mr_Sheesh: what is the proper communication protocols one would use for energy constrained wireless communication?
[23:45:01] <edboogie2011> say just one node to one..
[23:45:53] <edboogie2011> danm nordic made such a small chip.. looks like QFN40 or something.. thats tiny
[23:46:00] <Mr_Sheesh> They support IRQ so use the IRQ to wake your receiving node, then most anything that powers itself off after a packet's handled? (Back in a bit, have to handle something, dang RL interfering in my IRC time...)
[23:46:55] <edboogie2011> Mr_Sheesh: I assume there is a good set of sleeping features to keep power use down to right?
[23:46:56] <edboogie2011> for this chip
[23:47:51] <edboogie2011> thats the smallest wireless 2.4ghz chip i've seen in a long time, and that PCB has all the passives and support parts included?
[23:48:00] <edboogie2011> you don't need anything else? what do you need to power it?
[23:48:45] <edboogie2011> ahh you need the PA support chip too for long range
[23:51:40] <creep> Mr_Sheesh<< http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/393623_438741732834690_1749877355_n.jpg http://hu-hu.facebook.com/legszebbek/posts/230863630376225 http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/74572_448368949146_88213_n.jpg
[23:51:47] <creep> there are also black widows
[23:58:27] <edboogie2011> does anybody know if the PCB layout and schematic has been released for rasberry pi?
[23:58:28] <Mr_Sheesh> edboogie2011 - I think so, yes.
[23:58:42] <Mr_Sheesh> It's an SPI interface on the modules I bought