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[00:35:32] <creep> su VUSB doesn't like resonators ?
[00:35:56] <creep> i have 12MHz quartz, and 16MHz resonator
[00:44:26] <creep> yea, i got this for 1 euro Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05e3:0608 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB-2.0 4-Port HUB
[00:46:03] <CapnKernel> creep: It's not so much that V-USB doesn't like resonators
[00:46:14] <CapnKernel> As your PC won't like a USB bitstream that's not exact
[00:46:26] <CapnKernel> That's why you use a crystal
[00:46:38] <creep> what generates the PC's timebase?
[00:46:48] <creep> i saw 14.318MHz quartz in pc
[00:46:54] <CapnKernel> A crystal on the PCs motherboard
[00:47:04] <creep> its probably PLL-ed
[00:47:08] <CapnKernel> Yes
[00:47:19] <creep> PLL is more stable than my 16.00MHz resonator?
[00:47:31] <CapnKernel> Speaking of PLLs, some AVR chips (eg, ATtinyX5) have a PLL
[00:47:49] <CapnKernel> So you can make a design using V-USB that does not have a crystal or resonator.
[00:48:05] <creep> i remember VUSB can handle 12MHz quartz, so i guess i have to use that then
[00:48:08] <CapnKernel> The software relies on sniffing the USB stream from the PC, and tweaking the PLL to match
[00:48:17] <CapnKernel> VUSB can use several values of crystal
[00:48:25] <creep> heh interesting
[00:48:57] <CapnKernel> Yes, very very interesting idea
[00:49:16] <CapnKernel> That's what I do in one of my projects
[00:49:22] <creep> it'd be nice if i could use 14.318MHz quartz crystals, but atmega8 does not have pll
[00:50:17] <creep> and looks simpler to find a 12/16MHz quartz than making a pll
[00:50:50] <creep> i just found one 13.000MHz xtal in a dead pendrive
[00:50:57] <creep> *12.000MHz
[00:54:37] <creep> do you always use 2x22pf for xtals?
[00:55:45] <Xark> creep: It depends on the specs of the crystal (e.g., some specify 18pf etc.). However, in practice it tends to not be too critical.
[01:01:10] <creep> this genius maxfighter f17 sux ;< totally useless, so large deadzones, and <8 bit precision
[01:01:43] <creep> also i read that logitech attack 3 for 30 euros is the same quality
[01:02:40] <creep> though the stick looks more comfortable, still useless without a good electronics
[01:21:14] <Richard_Cavell> Hi ho everyone
[01:53:13] <Kevin`> creep: what it does is tweak the oscillator frequency, the pll is only necessary to generate a frequency usable for the usb software (eg, not 8mhz)
[02:34:03] <OSterver> Casper, I just look at its param, look at its cost and efficiency etc and check "usual circuit diagram"
[02:34:14] <OSterver> and then try building it to see, how big it is :P
[02:34:24] <OSterver> Tom_itx, what like me? I got disconnected
[02:36:44] <megal0maniac_afk> Richard_Cavell: Did you get that PM I sent you?
[02:38:24] <Richard_Cavell> yes
[02:38:27] <Richard_Cavell> Installing right now
[02:38:37] <Richard_Cavell> Mate I've spent another day on this garbage
[02:38:39] <Richard_Cavell> driving me nuts
[02:38:50] <Richard_Cavell> But I found Lt_Lemming is at the hackerspace near me
[02:38:53] <Richard_Cavell> So I'm gonna meet him on Tuesday
[02:39:35] <Richard_Cavell> I built the AVR circuit, built the DAPA cable, installed the parallel port, installed my STK600. Just can't get the damn program into the AVR chip
[02:41:01] <megal0maniac> Atmel studio contains the drivers for the STK600. It might even be a prerequisite
[02:41:10] <megal0maniac> They're designed to work together
[02:42:30] <Richard_Cavell> yep
[02:43:08] <megal0maniac> And fwiw, Tom's programmer does ISP, PDI and TPI, including high voltage if you get the adapter board. No drivers needed and compatible with avrdude and Atmel Studio without any setup necessary
[02:44:11] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: _If_ you want something simpler
[02:44:26] <creep> Kevin`<< i thought a pll is a vco with a divisor and phase comparator
[02:44:59] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: Another thing - most of these ISP programmers have a 2x3 row of pins. I need to have individual wires that I can shove into my breadboard
[02:46:05] <Richard_Cavell> What I did with my Dapa cable was I soldered insulated wire directly to a DB-25 connector, and then on the other end of the wires, I cut off individual jumper pins with sidecutters and soldered them to the wires
[02:46:12] <Richard_Cavell> Then I can shove the jumper pins into the breadboard
[02:46:14] <Kevin`> creep: the vco is seperate from it
[02:46:41] <Kevin`> creep: and of particular interest, most avr chips have a vco (or equivalent)
[02:46:53] <creep> ;/
[02:47:00] <Kevin`> creep: err, I suppose the pll itself need an oscillator
[02:47:06] <Kevin`> I mean the input to it
[02:48:00] <Kevin`> wasn't thinking completely clearly :D
[02:48:01] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell:
http://itp.nyu.edu/physcomp/images/tutorials/programmingc/image/isp/avrisppinout.jpg
[02:48:42] <Richard_Cavell> yes, I see. But I still need to have some method of connecting that to my breadboard
[02:48:54] <Richard_Cavell> The STK600 came with a 6-pin header-to 6-pin header cable
[02:49:10] <Richard_Cavell> I want to get another one and cut it in half, then terminate the individual wires from the ribbon cable
[02:49:29] <Richard_Cavell> Or I could manufacture my own ISP-header-to-individual wires thingy
[02:49:30] <creep> Kevin`<< no problem, i know what is a pll
[02:50:17] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: You can just put wires into the 6-pin header and into the breadboard (perhaps use a twist tie to keep them tight). You can also bend two 1x3 "long .1 header" pins so you can put it in a breadboard.
[02:50:48] <Richard_Cavell> The pins are 2.54mm apart
[02:50:56] <Richard_Cavell> My fingers are about 1cm wide
[02:50:59] <Richard_Cavell> each
[02:54:44] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: You can easily make something like this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8508
[02:54:58] <megal0maniac> I made one on veroboard, works great
[02:55:15] <megal0maniac> Basically just converts 2x3 header into 6x1
[02:56:52] <Richard_Cavell> that's very good
[02:57:00] <Richard_Cavell> so do you buy jumper pins and solder them in?
[02:57:02] <Richard_Cavell> I can do that
[02:57:09] <Richard_Cavell> I've soldered jumper pins into veroboard before
[02:58:36] <megal0maniac> The 6x1 row is straightforward. The 3x2 header, I bent the bottom of the pins and did it surface mount. You get more space to cut the tracks like that and it means the ISP header will be on the other side of the board, which is what you want
[02:58:42] <Richard_Cavell> but for the 1x6 column I woudn't solder in pins, I would solder in insulated wires. Then on the other end of the wires, I would solder the jumper pins and label each one
[02:58:49] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: did you see the darpa cable I made?
[02:59:40] <Richard_Cavell> http://imagebin.org/230215 each of those orange wires is terminated by a jumper pin and has a label. All of them are currently shoved into the breadboard
[03:01:36] <megal0maniac> Well then you may as well get another ISP cable (you can also buy the crimp connectors and attach it yourself) and connect that to the board
[03:01:42] <megal0maniac> As in solder
[03:04:18] <Richard_Cavell> Let's start with this. Is it possible to buy a 2x3 header that fits snugly onto the 2x3 pins?
[03:04:55] <creep> you can use some connectors from motherboards and things like that
[03:05:00] <Richard_Cavell> Why am I the only one having this issue? How do other people do this?
[03:05:08] <Richard_Cavell> Surely other people program their AVRs on breadboards
[03:05:25] <megal0maniac> You can get crimp connectors
[03:05:28] <creep> i prefer icsp for smd parts...
[03:05:35] <megal0maniac> And female jumper wires
[03:05:45] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: I gave you two solutions already. I have programed a lot of breadboards. :)
[03:06:08] <megal0maniac> With ends that you solder onto your cables, and then put a plastic housing over it.
[03:06:21] <megal0maniac> They fit on the 2.54mm spaced pins nicely
[03:06:46] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Actually yes, look into getting yourself female-male jumpers
[03:06:51] <megal0maniac> That'll sort you out
[03:07:07] <megal0maniac> I'm off. Be back later
[03:07:10] <OndraSter> where is our master?
[03:07:14] <OndraSter> What is atxmega32x1? :)
[03:07:15] <OndraSter> +memory space and less than 64K data space (MCU types: atxmega16a4, atxmega16a4u,
[03:07:15] <OndraSter> +atxmega16d4, atxmega16x1, atxmega32a4, atxmega32a4u, atxmega32d4, atxmega32x1).
[03:18:03] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac_afk:
http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1106769&MER=MER-BN-PR-1106769 This is what I want.
[03:19:20] <Richard_Cavell> Bugger it I'll go to Brisbane hackerspace and they'll help me (I hope)
[03:22:12] <megal0maniac_afk> Richard_Cavell: That's the crimp connector I was talking about
[03:22:27] <Richard_Cavell> I hope it's not too fiddly adding wires to it
[03:22:44] <megal0maniac_afk> Na, it's not bad
[03:23:20] <Richard_Cavell> I can't get that delivered any sooner than I visit the hackerspace
[03:27:21] <creep> my genius optical mouse's buttons started to die, i hacked hall switches in it, now it will last forever
[03:28:20] <megal0maniac_afk> creep: My crappy chinese mouse has omron switches. 3 years and still perfect
[03:30:09] <OSterver> I don't know how long will last my MS mouse :D
[03:33:08] <Hotroot> I don't get this. I'm looking at the spec sheet for the attiny 45 and it tells me the current needed in low power mode, but not regular? 0.o
[03:33:36] <Hotroot> I am very new to EE, but is min/max current not a vital piece of info?
[03:36:30] <OSterver> no
[03:36:38] <OSterver> there is some current for active mode
[03:36:44] <OSterver> and then you have to manually add all the peripherals
[03:43:34] <Hotroot> OSterver: The only active mode I see is under "Low Power Consumption"
[03:44:16] <Hotroot> From my understanding there is a minimum needed level of current, and a level where the chip will break if the current exceeds it. These are what I'm looking for.
[03:45:21] <Hotroot> Is that saying 1.8V and 300 uA for every 1MHz the CPU is using?
[03:45:52] <Hotroot> "– Active Mode:
[03:45:52] <Hotroot> • 1 MHz, 1.8V: 300 μA"
[03:46:41] <Hotroot> I know I'm at least getting the voltage requirements wrong there
[03:57:36] <jacekowski> don't worry about the current
[03:57:46] <jacekowski> as long as you can supply more than specified you are ok
[03:58:09] <jacekowski> and current in regular mode depends on so many factors that you can't really specify it
[03:59:18] <Hotroot> What is the max though?
[03:59:48] <jacekowski> depends on avr
[03:59:57] <jacekowski> but it's in 1-2A region
[04:00:03] <Hotroot> attiny45
[04:01:34] <Hotroot> I just find this weird that I'm reading the 200 page manual about the chip, and I can't find such a basic piece of info
[04:01:36] <jacekowski> 21.1
[04:01:43] <jacekowski> DC Current VCC and GND Pins................................ 200.0 mA
[04:02:16] <Hotroot> Ahh, thar we go
[04:02:24] <jacekowski> but that's with loaded outputs
[04:02:55] <jacekowski> avr itself without any external load will pull maybe 15mA
[04:03:03] <jacekowski> at 16MHz
[04:03:12] <Hotroot> Ah
[04:03:49] <Hotroot> I'm not sure how much of this stuff I just need to not be a circuitry noob, or if it's a legit question
[04:05:31] <Hotroot> DC Current per I/O Pin is saying don't hit a pin with anything above 40 mA?
[04:07:18] <Hotroot> I just need to read more, later all
[05:01:15] <Richard_Cavell> Why is AVR stuff so damn hard?
[05:01:34] <Richard_Cavell> I've installed the AVR Studio installer and I still don't have drivers for the STK600
[05:14:03] <OSterver> ..
[05:21:33] <tld> Where do you guys usually get enclosures?
[05:21:40] <OSterver> shops
[05:23:43] <specing> nowhere
[05:23:47] <specing> :)
[05:24:16] <specing> I should build a reprap...
[05:24:33] <repoman> mmmm reprap
[05:24:45] <repoman> o f i got one
[05:38:20] * tld thinks about starting cutting plexi
[05:42:30] <Amadiro> tld, makerbot/replicator
[05:42:57] <tld> it's *very* tempting.
[05:42:57] <Amadiro> I still have the older, shittier one, apparently the newer ones are a big improvement, but it works okay for me
[05:43:16] <tld> how far off are these things, from being able to use them to cut a PCB?
[05:43:25] <Amadiro> you have to treat the surfaces if you want them to look good, however
[05:43:28] <tld> start with a copper-filled one, and mill out traces I mena?
[05:43:49] <Amadiro> tld, uh, makerbots are 3D printers, they do nothing of the sort. What you want is a PCB mill
[05:44:04] <tld> was just wondering if the two could be combined.
[05:44:11] <Amadiro> of course
[05:44:39] <Amadiro> We have the LPKF ProtoMat S62 PCB mill
[05:45:01] <Amadiro> They're a step up from veroboards, but obviously can't compare to factory-made PCBs in any way
[05:45:54] <tld> that think seems *very* nice, at least on first glance.
[05:46:22] <Amadiro> tld, they have very strict limit (compared to PCB factories) on trace width, clearance width and things such as these
[05:46:40] <tld> yeah, I can imagine.
[05:46:55] <Amadiro> In fact, I mostly prefer veroboards myself, usually the PCB milling is not worth the hassle for prototyping, IMO
[05:46:56] <tld> do you run into issues with finer pitched chips?
[05:47:19] <Amadiro> tld, I think we've done SOIC, not sure if we've done anything finer, I haven't really used it a lot
[05:47:52] <Amadiro> but then, you can do SOIC on a veroboard easily
[05:48:48] <tld> seems like photoresist will be a cheaper way to get almost as far?
[05:49:31] <Amadiro> dunno, presumably photoresist could do much finer traces & pads
[05:50:15] <Amadiro> tld, also, boards from the PCB milling machine don't have any soldermask & silkscreen of course (although I believe we have lacks that you can put on it), so soldering smaller chips would be very hard/impossible either way
[05:50:40] <tld> I see.
[05:51:05] <tld> I suppose I'm just dreaming of being able to do "everything" at home at some point, but it doesn't seem very likely. ;)
[05:51:26] <Amadiro> no soldermask = harder to solder because the soldermask prevents the solder from flowing inbetween pads, and no silkscreen = you'll probably do something wrong while soldering if your board is more complex
[05:52:09] <Amadiro> tld, well, I have a friend who etches his boards himself by printing them out through a laserprinter or something (very home-made solution) and that seems to work fine for him
[05:53:11] <Amadiro> But if you were planning to make a motherboard for your new i7 or kintex, you should probably just shell out the few bucks for a professionally-made PCB :P
[05:53:19] <tld> I'm thinking I'll land on something like that, set that as the "upper limit" on home-made, and order in the rest (whatever that might be)
[05:53:25] <tld> haha, yeah
[05:55:07] <Amadiro> tld, you can probably still solder QFP on the self-etched/self-milled boards (QFN I'm not so sure about), so you can probably still use the whole range of microcontrollers, smaller microprocessors, smaller FPGAs and RAM blocks
[05:55:32] <OSterver> you can do soldermask at home :)
[05:55:41] <Amadiro> And you can always buy breakout boards for QFN or so as well, if you have just that one component that you can't get without
[05:55:44] <tld> worst-case I can probably do some of that through breakouts
[05:56:36] <Amadiro> OSterver, yeah, we have a solution for that too, I believe, but... applying soldermask to something like a QFN64 or so without messing up is probably hardly easier than just soldering it correctly without soldermask (can't say I've tried, though)
[05:56:50] <OSterver> depends on your printer :)
[05:57:01] <Amadiro> Oh, you can print it? Well, that's different
[05:57:06] <OSterver> no, you print the mask
[05:57:10] <Amadiro> yeah
[05:57:10] <OSterver> put UV ink on the board
[05:57:14] <OSterver> put the mask on the board
[05:57:15] <OSterver> and UV it
[05:57:21] <OSterver> and then just wash the remainings
[05:57:26] <OSterver> with denatured alcohol
[05:57:32] <Amadiro> yeah, that doesn't sound like too much hassle
[05:57:33] <OSterver> denatured petrol*
[05:57:36] <OSterver> or whatever it is
[05:57:42] <OSterver> already did it once
[05:57:53] <OSterver> then I donated the green soldermask to my old middle school, now I am waiting for new, red one :)
[05:58:09] <Amadiro> OSterver, have you tried the black one, it's very sexy
[05:58:19] <OSterver> I don't think there was black one
[05:58:25] <Amadiro> too bad
[05:58:40] <OSterver> red, green, blue
[05:58:43] <OSterver> not sure about the rest
[05:58:48] <Amadiro> I have a videocard with matte black soldermask, it looks amazing.
[05:58:58] <OSterver> buy an XBoard coco then
[05:59:00] <OSterver> it is black too :P
[05:59:23] <Amadiro> OSterver, are your xboards open-hardware?
[05:59:35] <OSterver> if you want, I can send you schematics
[06:00:04] <Amadiro> OSterver, that'd be nice, they're not of too much value to me if I can't learn from your circuits
[06:00:14] <OSterver> there is pretty much none
[06:00:17] <OSterver> just voltage regulator
[06:00:18] <Amadiro> OSterver, although I'd prefer if you'd just put them on the homepage for everyone :P
[06:00:21] <OSterver> and headers
[06:00:37] <Amadiro> (schematics & board files)
[06:02:41] <tld> Hmm. I think I want an XBoard coco.
[06:02:55] <OSterver> <sudden interest appears>
[06:03:33] <Amadiro> I guess I'll wait for the ultra, that one looks most interesting
[06:03:38] <OSterver> hehe
[06:03:46] <OSterver> Ultra won't be breadboardable btw
[06:03:48] <OSterver> only arduino form
[06:03:50] <OSterver> with SMPS even :P
[06:03:53] <OSterver> and SD card reader
[06:03:55] <OSterver> microSD*
[06:03:58] <OSterver> slot*
[06:04:14] <tld> I need something that does "many serials to USB, with MCU in the middle", and XBoard coco seems like a very nice solution for that?
[06:04:34] <Amadiro> OSterver, most people at my hackerspace are probably most comfortable with it having an arduino form factor anyway, although I would myself prefer the breadboardable one
[06:04:38] <OSterver> well USB CDC spec allows three UARTs there
[06:04:48] <OSterver> Amadiro, breadboardable ultra does not exist because of the size of the chip
[06:04:53] <OSterver> the chip is bigger (wider) than breadboard :P
[06:04:58] <tld> I don't need to follow the CDC-profile.
[06:05:03] <OSterver> mkay then
[06:05:06] <Amadiro> OSterver, what if I have very very large breadboards?
[06:05:13] <OSterver> then you are one of few
[06:05:14] <specing> tld: the stellatis launchpad has 8 10M serial ports :D
[06:05:19] <Amadiro> OSterver, also, you need to add price (or at least an estimate) for the external SDRAM
[06:05:22] <specing> stellaris*
[06:05:27] <OSterver> Amadiro, sure will
[06:05:46] <specing> OSterver: what about angle connectors
[06:05:50] <tld> wt.'s this?!? I've completely missed the stellaris launchpad. :(
[06:05:52] <OSterver> angle connectors?
[06:06:00] <Amadiro> OSterver, also, in which form will it be -- can I buy and solder it on myself, or do I need to buy an extension board from you, etc etc
[06:06:04] <specing> so that the board fits into the protoboard vertically
[06:06:10] <tld> specing: thanks. :)
[06:06:33] <specing> OSterver: there are 200 mils of space in the center of the protoboard
[06:06:35] <OSterver> too many questions! ONE BY ONE and STAND IN THE LINE! :D
[06:06:40] <OSterver> pic?
[06:06:52] <specing> you can offset the angle connectors in two rows
[06:07:07] <specing> one on the front and one on the back of the board
[06:07:25] <Amadiro> OSterver, breadboardable isn't just for breadboards, somebody might want to put it on a veroboard as well, and you can always connect together an arbitrary number of them to make huge mainboards and things like that... or somebody might want to incoorporate it on their own PCB, then the standard footprint will make it easier for them -- so I'd offer it in a "breadboardable" variant anyway
[06:07:35] <specing> OSterver: I think some PIC32 boards are made to fit that way
[06:07:55] <OSterver> specing, I remember some enc424j600 proto board with angle connectors
[06:08:01] <OSterver> Amadiro, later, now I want to make the arduino form to make it catch
[06:08:08] <OSterver> and actually pay for itself first.
[06:08:13] <Amadiro> yeh
[06:08:32] <Amadiro> Good luck with that, by the way :P
[06:08:36] <OSterver> thanks :D
[06:08:47] <OSterver> also, what is that bloody atxmega32e4 that is in the binutils patches :P
[06:08:53] <OSterver> and atxmega32x1 :P
[06:09:14] <OSterver> Dean! DEAAAANNN
[06:09:14] <Amadiro> MCU dev boards exist like sand on the beach, so it'll be somewhat hard to distinguish yourself -- although having the xmegas helps, I suppose, I have yet to see other xmega dev boards
[06:09:33] <OSterver> Amadiro, there is xduino or something too, but not sure on which chips is that based
[06:09:36] <OSterver> (xmega, but not sure which one)
[06:09:40] <OSterver> probably older ones without USB
[06:09:44] <OSterver> the USB ones are quite new
[06:10:02] <OSterver> also, xboard ultra won't be out till december - atmel starts shipping (selling) the a1u chips in the middle of november :P
[06:10:05] <Amadiro> USB is always nice to have on-chip
[06:10:17] <OSterver> I received samples already though
[06:10:25] <OSterver> not sure if it is final revision of chips or not
[06:10:49] <Amadiro> OSterver, since you're using the -AU, that means they can run atmel audio IP blocks (whatever that means)?
[06:11:03] <OSterver> -AU is packaging
[06:11:05] <OSterver> (TQFP)
[06:11:16] <OSterver> for ultra (since there is no QFN) and Mini (since it is small enough)
[06:11:22] <OSterver> -MU is QFN version (coco)
[06:11:29] <Amadiro> Ah, okay. On some of the AVR32 the -AU stood for "audio capable".
[06:12:25] <Amadiro> Which is somewhat interesting, but I'm having a hard time finding out what exactly that means -- the datasheet didn't help a lot to distinguish what you can do with and without the AU
[06:13:26] <tld> -AU is just package type, isn't it?
[06:14:37] <Amadiro> tld, normally yes, but
http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/32-bitavruc3.aspx (all the way at the bottom)
[06:15:48] <tld> "can be recognized by the AU letters before the dash"
[06:15:55] <tld> *before* the dash.
[06:16:18] <tld> so I suppose -AU still only is packaging, but I can see how this gets confusing fast. ;)
[06:19:26] <Amadiro> yeh
[06:20:48] <CapnKernel> Amadiro: I make boards at home:
http://capnstech.blogspot.com/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html
[06:21:02] <CapnKernel> But as you know, I also sell pro-quality boards :-)
[06:21:29] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, doesn't count as "as home" if you live in a factory :P
[06:21:57] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, more seriously, those look pretty good, though.
[06:23:02] <CapnKernel> The DIY boards are what I do at home if I can't even wait a week :-)
[06:23:27] <CapnKernel> The pro boards are from a top-class factory in the centre of the electronics universe :-)
[06:23:41] <CapnKernel> So they're two different things for two different needs.
[06:23:49] <Amadiro> Yeah.
[06:43:12] <JyZyXEL> how did you include .h files in the compile?
[06:48:35] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, #include "myheader.h"?
[06:48:46] <JyZyXEL> thats not the compile command
[06:48:56] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, depending on where they are and what IDE/compiler/build system you use, you might or might not need to tweak some compiler options
[06:49:15] <JyZyXEL> yeah i need to add it to my makefile
[06:49:35] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, are the .h files in a different directory than the rest of your source files?
[06:49:40] <JyZyXEL> no
[06:49:56] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: If I understood your question, I'd be able to help you.
[06:50:06] <CapnKernel> Are you having trouble with something?
[06:50:08] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, hm, you might lack a "-I."
[06:50:21] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, although I believe if the .h files are in the same directory, the compiler should normally find them
[06:50:29] * Richard_Cavell wants to scream
[06:50:33] <CapnKernel> #include "file.h" auto-searches the current dir, it's like having "-I."
[06:50:38] <Horologium-afk> header files are usually just included in the .c source with a #include<>
[06:50:55] <JyZyXEL> weird that it doesn't work then
[06:51:24] <Horologium> what error does it give?
[06:51:28] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: "It doesn't work" doesn't help us help you. If you post your compiler error message to a service such as pastebin.com, we can have a look.
[06:51:41] <Amadiro> Indeed, if they really are in the same directory, the compiler should just find them. Try to add "-I." anyway, I guess, see if it changes anything
[06:52:02] <JyZyXEL> undefined reference to `adc_setref'
[06:52:04] <JyZyXEL> undefined reference to `adc_setprescaler'
[06:52:10] <JyZyXEL> these are all defined in avr_adc.h
[06:52:29] <CapnKernel> Amd avr_adc.h is in the same dir?
[06:52:32] <JyZyXEL> yeah
[06:52:33] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, that's not a compiler-error, that's a linker-error
[06:52:33] <Horologium> not seeing an error from the #include directive itself?
[06:52:45] <JyZyXEL> nope
[06:52:47] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, so the problem is not the .h file, but linking to the .so .o or .a file
[06:52:56] <Horologium> then it is being included.
[06:52:57] <CapnKernel> Amadiro: You could be right.
[06:53:03] <Horologium> you have a different issue I think.
[06:53:04] <Amadiro> or .dll file if you're on windows, I guess
[06:53:23] <JyZyXEL> extern void adc_setref(unsigned char ref);
[06:53:30] <CapnKernel> If JyZyXEL pasted his compile session to pastebin.com, we'd be able to know for sure. JyZyXEL! Get with the program!
[06:53:35] <JyZyXEL> i don't know what the extern means
[06:53:49] <Horologium> means it is an external variable.
[06:53:56] <Horologium> like, from a .o or .a library.
[06:54:08] <CapnKernel> "extern" on a function means "don't be surprised when you see this used somewhere, it'll be supplied later" (from a library or something)
[06:54:09] <Horologium> you are missing linking in a library most likely.
[06:54:12] <JyZyXEL> ohh so i gotta compile the library first
[06:54:24] <CapnKernel> Not necessarily. It just has to be there when you LINK.
[06:54:26] <Horologium> or link the library.
[06:54:29] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, no, it already is compiled on your system. Your linker is just unable to find it
[06:54:36] <JyZyXEL> no its not compiled
[06:54:38] <CapnKernel> Paste your session to pastebin.com and stop wasting our time!
[06:55:26] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: So avr_adc.h has extern void adc_setref(unsigned char ref);
[06:55:30] <JyZyXEL> https://github.com/unixbigot/Flat-Mate thats the project im trying to build
[06:55:38] <CapnKernel> Where's the actual code for adc_setref()?
[06:55:47] <JyZyXEL> the included Makefile does not make any sense
[06:55:54] <Horologium> don't want your project...do a compile, capture the output, and post it to pastebin.
[06:56:06] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, the makefile of that project doesn't do anything
[06:56:19] <JyZyXEL> i know, and the F_CPU is wrong too
[06:56:38] <Horologium> makefiles seldom make sense...they are black magic and require you sacrifice your first born male child to understand them.... [: <humor, attempt at, one each>
[06:56:39] <CapnKernel> Now we're getting somewhere
[06:57:01] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, you need to invoke gcc with something like "gcc $(YOUR_OPTIONS) -DF_CPU=$(F_CPU)UL flatmate.c avr_adc.c
[06:57:06] <JyZyXEL> so im trying to figure out how the heck this is supposed to be compiled because he didn't document that at all
[06:57:09] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: Are you listening to anything I say?
[06:57:31] <specing> Amadiro: I wonder what shell you are using
[06:57:39] <Amadiro> specing, zsh
[06:57:54] <specing> zsh has $() for variable enclosing?
[06:58:00] <CapnKernel> Oh god, that makefile is using built-in rules. Suddenly I feel dirty just looking at it!
[06:58:03] <Amadiro> specing, no, that's make
[06:58:06] <specing> lol
[06:58:24] <JyZyXEL> Amadiro: i think that did it
[06:58:25] <CapnKernel> Apparently JyZyXEL *is* ignoring me!
[06:58:53] <specing> you know it is going to be unproductive if you see people talking about Makefiles!
[06:59:24] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, For instance "gcc -std=c99 -Wall -W -Wextra -pedantic -pedantic-errors -Wfloat-equal -Wundef -Wshadow -Winit-self -Winline -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -Wcast-qual -Wvla -Wswitch-enum -Wconversion -Wformat=2 -Wold-style-definition -Wswitch-default -Wstrict-overflow -DF_CPU=$(CPU_SPEED)UL -mmcu=attiny45 -I. flatmate.c avr_adc.c" would be my preferred way to compile a program like this.
[06:59:50] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, you might need to modify the cpu speed and mmcu architecture to the one you're using
[06:59:50] <JyZyXEL> i think you also want to do -O?
[07:00:04] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, yeah, I usually do -O2.
[07:00:20] <JyZyXEL> i think the author goofed up dpcumenting the correct CPU speed too
[07:00:21] <Amadiro> or -Os. I usually don't notice a huge difference
[07:00:32] <JyZyXEL> he says this in the flatmate.c:
[07:00:33] <JyZyXEL> * DEVICE: attiny45
[07:00:35] <JyZyXEL> * FUSES: LHX: 0x062 0xDF 0xFF -- 1MHz RC oscillator
[07:00:46] <JyZyXEL> now those fuses set the internal oscillator to 8 MHz
[07:01:17] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, he might have been experimenting around with it, the makefile contains a definition for 8MHz as well
[07:01:28] <JyZyXEL> no its missing a 0 :D
[07:01:34] <Amadiro> oh, heh
[07:01:36] <JyZyXEL> #F_CPU = 8000000
[07:01:48] <JyZyXEL> F_CPU = 1000000
[07:02:18] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac_afk: How long does it take before AVR becomes fun?
[07:02:31] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: Worrying that the makefile says "include ../avr-libs/avr-tmpl.mk" but there's no avr-libs dir....
[07:02:45] <Horologium> Richard_Cavell, became fun the first time I successfully programmed one.
[07:02:53] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, well, the ".." means it's outside the given git repository
[07:02:55] <Richard_Cavell> how long did it take you?
[07:02:57] <Horologium> took me a couple of tries but within an hour or so.
[07:03:02] <JyZyXEL> well it compiled with Amadiros command
[07:03:07] <CapnKernel> Yes, and if it's outside, how is one supposed to have it?
[07:03:16] <Horologium> and I didn't have IRC to help me at the time.
[07:03:17] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, just get a teensy or digispark or whatever, dude
[07:03:27] <CapnKernel> Given that I cloned this from github?
[07:03:28] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, it's assumed the user already has it
[07:03:36] <CapnKernel> Assumed my ass.
[07:03:40] <CapnKernel> It's broken.
[07:03:57] <Richard_Cavell> Amadiro: Everyone tells me to just switch programming methods
[07:04:03] <Richard_Cavell> just do this, just do that
[07:04:06] <JyZyXEL> i just gotta figure out how to convert this to hex
[07:04:09] <JyZyXEL> i get the a.out thingy
[07:04:15] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, this looks like it's just somebodys hobby project anyway, he probably doesn't expect anyone to compile it
[07:04:38] <CapnKernel> Slack.
[07:04:45] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, if you get a teensy, it comes with a usb bootloader, so all you need is a USB cable to program it.
[07:04:59] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, it's basically impossible to get wrong
[07:05:10] <Amadiro> There is no wiring involved at all
[07:05:39] <Horologium> in my day all we had were parallel ports and resistors for programmers! Bah, kids..sheesh.
[07:05:40] <JyZyXEL> Amadiro: by -O i meant the output file
[07:05:53] <JyZyXEL> default filename i think is the a.out
[07:06:04] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, that'd be "-o", but yeah, if you don't give it anything, it'll just use a default name
[07:06:11] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: -O is not -o
[07:06:32] <Horologium> oops....someone used gcc and not avr-gcc or gcc-avr(depending on the setup)
[07:06:50] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, once you got the hang of programming the 32u4 on the teensy (beautiful chip, by the way) and you feel comfortable with that, you can look at different methods of programming
[07:07:00] <JyZyXEL> whats the code for converting .o to .hex?
[07:07:16] <Richard_Cavell> I think tomorrow I'm going to post step by step what I'm doing and invite someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong
[07:07:44] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, typically you go via elf first: gcc (flags and linker-flags) -o blah.elf blah.o
[07:07:55] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: If you can wait 5 mins, and you stop ignoring me, I'll have the makefile done for you.
[07:08:10] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, then avr-objcopy -j .text -j .data -O ihex blah.elf blah.hex or so
[07:08:26] <CapnKernel> Just testing now
[07:08:55] <JyZyXEL> i probably should be using some IDE that automatically does all this stuff
[07:09:09] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, then how would you learn how a compiler works
[07:09:13] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: How long have you been into Jello nuns?
[07:09:21] <JyZyXEL> whats that
[07:09:30] <CapnKernel> It's a test to see if you really are ignoring me :-)
[07:11:19] <Amadiro> Mmmh, jello nuns
[07:11:26] <CapnKernel> On Harleys
[07:11:34] <Richard_Cavell> to hell with it I'm going to bed
[07:11:43] <JyZyXEL> avr-gcc -o flatmate.elf flatmate.o
[07:11:46] <JyZyXEL> flatmate.o: In function `__bad_interrupt':
[07:11:48] <JyZyXEL> ../../../../crt1/gcrt1.S:193: multiple definition of `__bad_interrupt'
[07:11:50] <JyZyXEL> /usr/lib/gcc/avr/4.3.5/../../../avr/lib/crts8515.o:../../../../crt1/gcrt1.S:193: first defined here
[07:12:29] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: You never heard of pastebin???
[07:12:40] <Amadiro> Sounds like you've linked in something twice, but w/e, just wait for the makefile from CapnKernel
[07:12:58] <JyZyXEL> i used this: avr-gcc -g -std=gnu99 -Wall -O2 -mmcu=attiny45 -DF_CPU=10000000 flatmate.c avr_adc.c -o flatmate.o
[07:14:13] <JyZyXEL> so it compiles a corrupted output without any errors?
[07:14:29] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, it's not a compiler error, its a linker error
[07:14:33] <Amadiro> the compiler does not see the issue
[07:15:31] <JyZyXEL> no clue what the linker even is
[07:15:44] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, you need to know these things if you're programming C.
[07:16:00] <JyZyXEL> im just trying to compile the code
[07:16:08] <CapnKernel> We can tell.
[07:16:20] <JyZyXEL> this is why people should make sane Makefiles to go with their code
[07:16:33] <CapnKernel> Agreed. I'm testing your sane makefile now
[07:17:20] <Amadiro> also,
http://pastie.org/4883522
[07:17:43] <Amadiro> so the __bad_interrupt thing might be some problem with your compiler setup? I'm not entirely sure
[07:17:55] <JyZyXEL> O.O
[07:18:38] <JyZyXEL> what command did you use to compile?
[07:18:44] <Amadiro> your exact command
[07:19:08] <JyZyXEL> great so we get different results with the exact same commands
[07:19:25] <Amadiro> I have avr-gcc 4.7.1
[07:19:58] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, maybe try deleting all .o .so .a .elf files in the current directory, maybe there is some weird left-over garbage hanging about.
[07:20:02] <Amadiro> And then redo.
[07:20:49] <JyZyXEL> didn't help
[07:21:16] <JyZyXEL> gcc version 4.3.5 (GCC)
[07:21:31] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: Here's a makefile
[07:21:33] <CapnKernel> http://fpaste.org/sLCd/raw/
[07:21:45] <Amadiro> well, that's a pretty old gcc
[07:21:45] <CapnKernel> wget -O Makefile
http://fpaste.org/sLCd/raw/
[07:22:12] <CapnKernel> (I don't have the AVR toolchain installed at the moment, but it should work)
[07:23:22] <JyZyXEL> well that worked
[07:23:31] <Horologium> 4.3.5 is what is default in debian.
[07:23:32] <CapnKernel> What is a "that"?
[07:23:33] <JyZyXEL> beautifully
[07:23:39] <JyZyXEL> CapnKernel: your makefile
[07:23:54] <JyZyXEL> it guess all it needed was the avr_adc.o
[07:23:54] <CapnKernel> Well that's good news
[07:24:24] <JyZyXEL> i hope i can reuse this makefile when the next time i need to make a project compile
[07:24:36] <CapnKernel> I hope it's readable enough that you can reuse it :-)
[07:24:48] <CapnKernel> If there's something you don't understand, now's a good time to ask.
[07:25:05] <CapnKernel> If you type "make prog", it will send it to the board for you. But it'll probably need some tweaking to work for you./
[07:25:06] <JyZyXEL> it seems bare bones enough to be helpful
[07:25:15] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, my debian (stable) has gcc 4.4.5
[07:25:31] <JyZyXEL> hmm i think im running stable too
[07:25:48] <CapnKernel> "debian" is an anagram of "ancient"
[07:25:50] <Amadiro> You might want to run a dist-upgrade then, perhaps -- sounds like you haven't done it in a few months
[07:26:12] <JyZyXEL> i just do upgrade
[07:26:24] <JyZyXEL> i never do dist-upgrade
[07:26:42] <Horologium> I just installed debian on wednesday and 4.3.5 is what I got on new install.
[07:26:44] <CapnKernel> Which is why you have gcc 4.3.5
[07:26:59] <CapnKernel> "debian" really is an anagram of "ancient"
[07:27:15] <JyZyXEL> i thought dist-upgrade is when you go from say lenny->squeeze
[07:27:32] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, in general, dist-upgrade is allowed to install new packages
[07:27:42] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, so if a package is replaced with another one, upgrade is not allowed to upgrade it
[07:27:47] <JyZyXEL> but now i guess its also when you go from 6.0.0 to say 6.0.5?
[07:28:05] <Amadiro> I don't know whether debian commonly replaces packages with other packages and things like that, on archlinux it happens frequently
[07:28:24] <JyZyXEL> i thought they don't even do that on stable
[07:28:45] <Horologium> oh great....there's an update since I installed! debian 6.0.6 was released,,yesterday.
[07:28:56] <CapnKernel> JyZyXEL: What version of kernel are you running?
[07:28:59] * CapnKernel needs a good laugh
[07:29:06] <JyZyXEL> 2.6.32-5-amd64
[07:29:17] <JyZyXEL> i've never dist-upgraded any of my debian machines :D
[07:29:18] <Amadiro> well, that's the same kernel my debian system runs
[07:29:39] <CapnKernel> Laughed? I internally hemorrhaged!
[07:29:47] <JyZyXEL> i would imagine there are like 600MB of updates if i do dist-upgrade :p
[07:29:49] <Amadiro> 3.5.4 on my arch, though
[07:30:28] <JyZyXEL> cat /etc/debian_version
[07:30:30] <JyZyXEL> 6.0.5
[07:30:59] <Amadiro> 6.0.6 here
[07:31:01] <Horologium> JyZyXEL, doing it now...getting 79.1MB of archives.
[07:31:12] <JyZyXEL> im doing just plain upgrade
[07:31:18] <Horologium> 42 upgraded.
[07:32:13] <JyZyXEL> i have like 4 debian stable boxes and very rarely upgrade anyting on em :p
[07:32:18] <Horologium> mostly minor changes and bugfixes it looks.
[07:32:31] <Amadiro> Either way, the newer gcc versions are massively improved, so even if you're on an older distro, building your own latest-release gcc version probably pays off
[07:35:21] <Horologium> bah..reboot wanted...not right now..
[07:40:40] <JyZyXEL> CapnKernel: by the way whats with the := ?
[07:42:29] <CapnKernel> The difference between = and := relates to how a variable is evaluated. (In other words, how its value is worked out)
[07:42:32] <Amadiro> JyZyXEL, := evaluates right away, = evaluates when the variable is used
[07:42:38] <CapnKernel> What 'e said
[07:42:51] <CapnKernel> = means the RHS will be evaluated every time you use it.
[07:42:54] <CapnKernel> Sometimes it's useful
[07:43:02] <CapnKernel> Mostly it's a waste of CPU
[07:43:11] <CapnKernel> Not that it makes a big difference
[07:43:42] <CapnKernel> However if you had a line like ARCH=$(shell uname -m)
[07:43:56] <CapnKernel> Then every time you had $(ARCH) in your code, make would re-run uname -m
[07:44:05] <CapnKernel> uname -m is rather unlikely to change :-)
[07:44:29] <CapnKernel> If you have ARCH:=$(shell uname -m), then uname -m will only be run once, when ARCH is defined
[07:44:54] <Horologium> any reason not to use 4.7.2 gcc for building toolchain?
[07:44:54] <JyZyXEL> thats a better thing
[07:45:18] <CapnKernel> It gets worse when you're doing things like =$(wildcard *.java)
[07:55:08] <karlp> Amadiro: newer gcc versions don't always contain any improvements of any note for platforms not being actively worked on.
[07:57:12] <Horologium> which binutils to use then?
[07:57:25] <Horologium> looks like the patch from freebsd doesn't support 2.22
[08:01:10] <Amadiro> karlp, most of the improvements I like about 4.7 (and the upcoming 4.8) happened in the C frontend, though. I assume those will be reflected on all architectures.
[08:01:34] <karlp> improvements like what?
[08:01:45] <Amadiro> karlp, improved warnings and error messages
[08:01:51] <karlp> yeah, that's fair.
[08:02:08] <karlp> still, it's unawesome when code that was building fine with -Wall and -Werror all of a sudden fails :)
[08:02:23] <karlp> I do like the new messages that say what flag is triggering the warning
[08:02:35] <Amadiro> karlp, well, -Werror is asking for strict treatment, so that's what you get
[08:02:41] <Amadiro> but you can always selectively disable one warning
[08:14:50] <CapnKernel> -Werror is no different to -Wall in the things it will complain about, just that it will complain-and-stop, not complain-and-keep-going :-)
[08:15:07] <CapnKernel> A bit like my kids really.
[08:15:42] <Amadiro> CapnKernel, yeah, that's what I meant by "strict treatment" -- it doesn't just warn, it entirely aborts your build.
[08:16:32] <Amadiro> Which is great or not so great, depending on your point of view on things like these -- if you love to be notified about new problems that may arise in your code, and you don't mind doing a little tweaking here and there sometimes just to make the compiler happy, its great.
[08:20:45] <karlp> CapnKernel: it's more when you take a "workign, stable" package, and build it on a new computer, and it fails, because extra warnings have been turned on in new compilers.
[08:21:02] <karlp> it's not an insurmountable problem, just rather tedious at times when you're not expecting it.
[08:22:21] <CapnKernel> First thing I do with a new system is sit down and analyse the code and modify until it's warning-free.
[08:22:45] <CapnKernel> 9/10 it's something I (or someone else) did wrong.
[08:23:00] <CapnKernel> 1/10 there's usually an easy way to reword it so the compiler's happy
[08:23:02] <CapnKernel> Either way, it's a win
[08:23:16] <Amadiro> karlp, well, you can always turn it off. In fact, for "release build" (i.e. makefiles/make-targets that are intended for users or maintainers to compile the code rather than people who are actually developing the code) I would not use -Werror. (or many of the other warning flags I like to have, no reason the user should see any warnings unless an actual problem arises)
[08:23:18] <karlp> that's all well and good, I was more bringing this up in response to amadiro's claim that, "of course you should build a new gcc even if the one your distro packages works, the new one will be better!"
[08:24:01] <Amadiro> karlp, by that I meant for your own personal use, not necessarily for the use of compiling system components or other peoples code.
[08:28:30] <Amadiro> I wouldn't replace the systems compiler with my own, but rather keep my own in a separate directory, replacing the systems compiler can sometimes mean a lot of hassle (if you suddenly need to compile a driver, for instance, and the kernel was compiled with a different compiler than you use for your driver -- not pretty)
[08:28:52] <karlp> I was only talking about installing a newer avr-gcc than the one in debian stable.
[08:29:07] <Amadiro> right
[08:29:18] <karlp> for most people, there's really nothing to be gained from a new one, unless you're into gentoo style compile alllll the thigns loving.
[08:30:43] <Roklobsta> what's the jtag speed limit of a dragon? 250KHz?
[08:44:59] <Richard_Cavell> Anyone here use avrdude on Mac?
[08:55:42] <Blecha> try #mac ?
[08:55:46] <tld> Richard_Cavell: I do, why?
[08:56:00] <Richard_Cavell> Mate I am trying everything possible to get this damn thing working
[08:56:11] <Richard_Cavell> I have plugged in my stk600 into my MacBook Pro
[08:56:18] <tld> Richard_Cavell: Actually, I used to use it through Arduino-IDE on OS X, now I'm mostly using it directly under FreeBSD (which is similar to OS X in a lot of ways)
[08:56:22] <Richard_Cavell> and I go avrdude -c stk600 -P usb -p atmega2560 -v
[08:56:51] <tld> Richard_Cavell: It could be that there's some other driver that's taken ownership of the programmer.
[08:57:03] <Richard_Cavell> http://ideone.com/iYvm2
[08:57:19] <Richard_Cavell> I can't get AVR studio on Windows to talk to this chip either
[08:57:52] <Tom_itx> you don't have the jungo driver installed properly in windows most likely
[08:58:15] <tld> hmm, interesting.
[08:58:18] <Richard_Cavell> I have a jungo device and a WinDrive device installed
[08:58:21] <JyZyXEL> this guy didn't consider that when the low voltage threshold cuts out the battery from the load the voltage in the battery will raise...
[08:58:32] <tld> looks like it's reaching the stk… it's polling firmware-versions, etc…
[08:58:54] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, looks to me like you haven't set the chip into the stk board correctly
[08:59:06] <Richard_Cavell> how can you tell that?
[08:59:27] <Amadiro> From the message at the end that basically says "looks to me like you haven't set the chip into the stk board correctly"
[09:00:07] <Richard_Cavell> What I did was plonk the atmega2560 board directly onto the STK600 with no routing board
[09:00:08] <Tom_itx> initialization failed, rc=-1
[09:00:18] <Tom_itx> indicates communication with the board but not the chip
[09:00:24] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, show pics
[09:00:27] <Richard_Cavell> and it just sort of sits there, I don't have any way to secure it
[09:01:44] <darsie> http://www.avrfreaks.net/wiki/index.php/Special:Search?search=avr&fulltext=Search produces no results. Is this broken?
[09:03:20] <Tom_itx> darsie what exactly are you looking for?
[09:03:41] <darsie> I need an LCD for a geiger counter. 2 lines of text. anyone know an overview of devices?
[09:03:58] <Tom_itx> what chip are you using?
[09:04:11] <Tom_itx> and yes
[09:04:15] <darsie> some 8-bit avr.
[09:04:25] <Tom_itx> which 8 bit avr?
[09:04:26] <darsie> not sure yet which exactly.
[09:04:32] <Blecha> There are tons of cheapo character LCDs
[09:04:58] <darsie> Blecha: Is there an overview somewhere?
[09:05:11] <Amadiro> darsie, just search digikey or mouser or so
[09:05:15] <Blecha> Maybe but they are fairly simple
[09:05:19] <darsie> ok
[09:05:32] <Blecha> When in doubt google the thing you want to use + arduino for a simple explanation
[09:05:38] <Tom_itx> you could use peter fleury's lcd library
[09:05:55] <Blecha> Look for something with existing libraries for the chip in the range you need.
[09:06:14] <Blecha> atmega128 would be a good start
[09:06:20] <Tom_itx> nearly any 2 line char display is gonna be fairly common
[09:07:03] <Blecha> plus a cheap character LCD from ebay(if you are willing to wait a couple weeks) or from sparkfun, adafruit, mouser(maybe?), digikey...etc
[09:07:21] <Blecha> Ive found mouser and digikey to be lacking in good display options, that might be my searching though
[09:07:22] <Richard_Cavell> Amadiro:
http://imagebin.org/230391 http://imagebin.org/230392 http://imagebin.org/230393
[09:08:49] <karlp> Blecha: displays tend to just get bought from the manufacturer directly as everyone likes to customize the colour, voltage, backlighting, bezel shape and so on.
[09:08:55] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, okay. I have no clue whether this is the correct way to set it up, as I have no stk600, but check the documentation.
[09:09:06] <Richard_Cavell> Of course I've read it
[09:09:10] <Richard_Cavell> But it skips over the important things
[09:09:35] <Richard_Cavell> I can't find a youtube video of it
[09:09:55] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, is that cable in the correct position? Are the buttons in the correct position?
[09:10:05] <Amadiro> by buttons I mean switches
[09:10:09] <Blecha> karlp yeah, ive yet to figure out a cost effective graphic display option
[09:10:17] <Tom_itx> Richard_Cavell did you ensure the target board had power to it?
[09:10:18] <Blecha> Most use the flat flex connectors
[09:10:29] <Blecha> some kind of randomly pinned flat flex at that
[09:10:36] <Richard_Cavell> Tom_itx: no, the stk600 is powered by USB which is fine as long as you don't have peripherals
[09:10:45] <Richard_Cavell> I can't see what I've done wrong
[09:10:49] <Tom_itx> what about the target board?
[09:10:56] <Tom_itx> not the stk600
[09:11:13] <Richard_Cavell> In this case I'm trying to do ISP on the target board which is in the photos
[09:11:18] <Richard_Cavell> you mount the board on the stk600
[09:11:29] <Richard_Cavell> And I presume power comes through the connectors
[09:11:45] <Tom_itx> don't assume anything. check it
[09:11:58] <Richard_Cavell> well there's no where else for me to supply power
[09:12:14] <Richard_Cavell> And the voltage-target LED is lit
[09:12:17] <Amadiro> It's one hell of a weird-looking board... does it allow you to do anything with it except for programming it...?
[09:12:19] <Richard_Cavell> indicating that it's getting at least 4.8 volts
[09:12:29] <Richard_Cavell> Amadiro: yeah it has LEDs and switches
[09:12:37] <Richard_Cavell> and you have pinouts for every conceivable thing
[09:12:41] <Amadiro> Richard_Cavell, I mean the target board
[09:12:49] <Richard_Cavell> oh right
[09:12:55] <Roklobsta> i have an spi question, anyone care to help?
[09:12:57] <Amadiro> I guess it's just meant for programming
[09:13:01] <Richard_Cavell> I can't see any means whatsoever of modifying it
[09:13:27] <CapnKernel> Someone somewhere thought that board was a good idea.
[09:13:45] <Amadiro> It's probably expensive, too
[09:14:20] <Tom_itx> someone else thought it wasn't
[09:14:27] <Horologium> Roklobsta, ask away...might can someone help you yes.
[09:14:42] * Horologium turns off Yoda mode.
[09:14:48] <Amadiro> yep, costs like 50$
[09:16:14] <Roklobsta> ok, i am using spi to read and write data off a chip in spi mode. if i step through it it works, if i let it rip it get stuck on: loop_until_bit_is_clear(SPSR,SPIF); which is between a SPDR write and read
[09:16:43] <Tom_itx> not all spi slaves use that
[09:16:54] <Tom_itx> you should clear it manually
[09:17:30] <Tom_itx> it's the spi interrupt flag
[09:17:43] <Roklobsta> the spi is a master
[09:18:16] <Tom_itx> iirc, reading the flag will clear it
[09:18:25] <Horologium> if it works when stepping through,,,going nice and slow,,,and not when you go full speed,,,,possibly you are running too fast for the chip it is reading/writing?\
[09:19:00] <Roklobsta> chip works at 1MHz I am clocking at 250KHz
[09:19:31] <Roklobsta> and i have a _delay_ms(2) after the read of the data register to give the SS time to go high
[09:20:02] <Richard_Cavell> There it is people
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=997573#997573
[09:22:36] <Richard_Cavell> I'll go to bed now
[09:22:45] <Richard_Cavell> When I wake up tomorrow I reckon there'll be one reply saying "you should be using Windows"
[09:22:52] <Richard_Cavell> another saying "why don't you use Atmel Studio"
[09:23:10] <Richard_Cavell> another saying "you should be using a usbtinyisp
[09:23:23] <Richard_Cavell> and another telling me to read the STK600 instruction manual
[09:23:31] <Tom_itx> very likely so
[09:23:39] <Richard_Cavell> we'll see
[09:23:41] <Richard_Cavell> good night all
[09:23:44] <Tom_itx> or no replies at all
[09:23:44] <Horologium> have you checked with the avrdude people?
[09:24:03] <Tom_itx> i told him the error indicated the target chip wasn't found
[09:24:18] <Blecha> Im having a really hard time not hating the customers today, normally they are all nice with one random mean woman.
[09:24:38] <Blecha> Today, everyone seems pissed off as I'm scrambling around to get all this stuff done.
[09:24:52] <Blecha> I knew I should have brought my deathray to work.
[09:26:03] <Horologium> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=88386&start=0
[09:26:05] <Horologium> anyhow..
[09:26:25] <Horologium> Blecha, high explosives are always the answer.
[09:26:33] <Horologium> not always the correct answer, but always the answer.
[09:26:45] <CapnKernel> Depends on the question
[09:26:50] <Horologium> nope.
[09:26:57] <Horologium> any question can be answered with high explosives.
[09:28:50] <JyZyXEL> gotta just roll up my own
[09:30:30] <Horologium> Richard_Cavell, looks like you might not have libusb installed, or possibly avrdude not compiled with libusb support properly, or both.
[09:31:01] <Roklobsta> whups, PEBKAC
[09:31:04] <Horologium> check the apple system profiler to see if it is recognized.
[09:31:13] <Horologium> Roklobsta, nope....PICNIC error.
[09:32:03] <Roklobsta> This was my problem:
http://tcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/rtfm.jpg
[09:32:19] <Horologium> read the fine manual.
[09:32:27] <Horologium> PICNIC=problem in chair not in computer
[09:32:45] <Blecha> Manuals are scary sometimes
[09:32:57] <Roklobsta> loop_until_bit_is_clear(SPSR,SPIF); NONONONO loop_until_bit_is_clear(SPSR,SPIF); YESYESYESYES
[09:32:58] <Horologium> specially the original unix manuals.
[09:33:24] <Blecha> "Load the top assembly until the bottom is upside down, inserted correctly to the left bay loading area.
[09:33:48] <Horologium> ok...not seeing a diff between the two there.
[09:33:54] <Horologium> might be too early in the morning too.
[09:34:40] <Horologium> but diff proggy doesn't see diff either.
[09:35:30] * Roklobsta is a ^%#%@&%^!
[09:35:36] <Roklobsta> loop_until_bit_is_clear(SPSR,SPIF); NONONONO loop_until_bit_is_set(SPSR,SPIF); YESYESYESYES
[09:35:56] <Horologium> aahh
[09:35:59] <Horologium> clear as an unset bit!
[09:39:08] <Roklobsta> i was waiting for the wrong thing to happen between write and read of the SPI data reg.
[09:39:17] <Roklobsta> apart from that the code worked 1st time out...
[09:39:20] <Roklobsta> which is nice
[09:45:15] <Roklobsta> sweet mofo works at 1MHz
[09:48:52] <Roklobsta> do i go to bed or keep hahahacking
[10:30:03] <Amadiro> I was going to do a project with FTDIs vinculum just for the lulz, but ftdi has no sample service and wants over 50$ for shipping 3 chips to me -- lame-o
[10:42:05] <OSterver> lol
[11:10:34] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to switch mega168 to external clk at runtime?
[11:17:20] <tld> Amadiro: eBay is full of FTDI, isn't it?
[11:18:15] <Tom_itx> Laurenceb_ you might be able to but it's risky
[11:18:39] <tld> Laurenceb_: can I ask why?
[11:19:16] <Laurenceb_> to run off a configurable clk source
[11:19:57] <Tom_itx> like a ttl clock?
[11:20:03] <Tom_itx> you want external clock for that
[11:20:10] <Tom_itx> otherwise you want crystal
[11:20:14] <Tom_itx> there is a difference
[11:20:28] <Laurenceb_> i know
[11:20:32] <tld> Laurenceb_: if it's configurable, couldn't you just use that all the time, and configure for the frequency you need, without switching between internal and external?
[11:20:43] <Laurenceb_> its configured over spi by the avr
[11:20:44] <Tom_itx> Laurenceb_, check how to write fuses at runtime
[11:20:55] <Laurenceb_> but thats eeprom?
[11:21:24] <Tom_itx> and so are the progmem functions
[11:21:39] <Horologium> there are some clock things you can do at runtime but not sure if you can switch clock sources...I could be totally wrong.
[11:22:07] <darsie> Laurenceb_: Have you tried?
[11:22:11] <Tom_itx> i've never looked into it
[11:22:19] <Tom_itx> but i think it's possible
[11:28:27] <Kevin`> the xmega clock is configured at runtime, but i've always seen it as a fuse setting on the smaller/older parts. would love to be proved wrong on that
[11:28:56] <Horologium> clock source on the tiny and mega series is done by fuse.
[11:29:05] <Horologium> there are some prescalers you can do at runtime though.
[11:29:19] <Horologium> some hoops to jump through for those, however....
[11:29:33] <Horologium> and I think the ones with the PLL configure that at runtime...
[11:49:15] <Amadiro> tld, I'm sure it is, but if they won't even send me some samples for free, why would I bother. Their chips are kinda expensive anyway.
[11:49:43] <tld> Amadiro: point.
[11:49:57] <tld> I'm actually looking at cp2102 and similar, for mostly the same reasons.
[11:50:34] <Amadiro> tld, actually, looks like pretty much nobody on ebay sells vinculum chips. They're pretty obscure anyway, I've never seen anyone use them
[11:51:20] <Horologium> I got ftdi to send me samples once, years back.
[11:51:30] <Amadiro> Horologium, how?
[11:51:41] <Horologium> luck and perseverence.
[11:52:09] <Horologium> I do better with atmel but still have troubles there.
[11:52:26] <Horologium> maxim, microchip, and TI are awesome for samples though.
[11:52:33] <Amadiro> TI, LT and microchip send me more stuff than I have a use for
[11:52:41] <Horologium> LT?
[11:52:45] <Amadiro> linear technology
[11:52:49] <Horologium> aahh yes.
[11:52:52] <Horologium> motor control chips.
[11:52:53] <tld> LT is very friendly.
[11:53:01] <Horologium> have some of those as well.
[11:53:15] <tld> I've mostly gotten power-related things from them.
[11:53:20] <Amadiro> Horologium, they do a whole bunch of stuff, they sent me a bunch of high-speed ADCs with 210MHz samplerate
[11:53:42] <Horologium> oh,,,also allegro-micro...that's the ones I'm thinking of for motor control.
[11:54:24] <tld> I was looking at… something… from allegro…
[11:54:28] <tld> could it have been a switching reg?
[11:56:29] <tld> hmm
[11:56:31] <tld> I need more xbees.
[12:52:11] <NovceGuru> Hello, does anybody have any idea who this might be fixed?
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=982126 I'm in a pretty similar situation where I'm moving from an atxmega32d4 to a atxmega128d4 but I haven't changed any of atmel's .h files as the original poster had done, and I"ve tried on multiple fresh installs
[12:55:23] <Horologium> wish I had NovceGuru
[12:55:32] <Horologium> but never actually worked with any xmega chips.
[12:56:13] <Blecha> Ask Ondra maybe?
[12:56:38] <Blecha> Osterver, you afk?
[12:57:08] <NovceGuru> Horologium: yeah, thats about the only result on google :\
[13:00:13] <Chillance> so, Im doing the all sleep_enable(); sleep_cpu(); stuff, but the while (1) loop still seems to go round and round, as the print I do there is printed all the time.. isn't sleep_cpu(); supposed to rest until an interrupt happens?
[13:03:53] <NovceGuru> hmm maybe avr studio 6 sp1 will fix it
[13:04:13] <NovceGuru> (my issue)
[13:06:03] <tld> I've got a plastic enclosure, I think ABS (a standard Hammond thing). Any ideas on how to get a not-horrible-looking bit cut out, to make room for an LCD to peek through?
[13:15:35] <drobban> j #cia
[13:15:36] <NovceGuru> cutting squares in ABS is never fun, try one of those vibratory cutters?
[13:15:40] <drobban> oops
[13:15:41] <drobban> =)
[13:16:27] <tld> NovceGuru: like engraving-pens, with different bit?
[13:16:58] <tld> NovceGuru: been wondering if I could do it with a dremel-clone… perhaps even freehand with a routing-bit, but I doubt it'd be goodlooking.
[13:17:01] <NovceGuru> http://www.amazon.com/Rockwell-RK5102K-SoniCrafter-Deluxe-72-Piece/dp/B001EYUGMS
[13:17:11] <NovceGuru> yeah spinning things get hot
[13:17:22] <NovceGuru> I think harbor freight has a knock off
[13:18:29] <Horologium> tld, I would do a rough cut with a dremel, then smooth it closer with an exacto knife then 150grit sandpaper....or a hotknife works too depending on the material.
[13:19:28] <tld> NovceGuru: Hmm, didn't know those were quite so versatile… That's a local knockoff, I'll have to check it out. :)
[13:19:40] <tld> Horologium: exacto+sandpaper might be as close as I get… hmm.
[13:19:50] <Horologium> have a soldering iron?
[13:19:57] <tld> tried a hotknife-thing, but it turned gooey and hard to work with.
[13:19:59] <tld> Horologium: yes
[13:20:08] <tld> I also have a gas-solderingiron/hotair/hotknife.
[13:20:12] <Horologium> cut it close then smooth it with the edge of the soldering iron....
[13:20:21] <Horologium> if it's adjustable, turn it way down.
[13:21:30] <tld> seems like "test different things and learn" is the way to go… if I intentionally cut too small, I can figure out what works best perhaps, do the final finish with that.
[13:21:35] <tld> thanks, both. :)
[13:22:35] <Horologium> someone asked earlier where to get enclosures.
[13:22:37] <Horologium> pac-tec
[13:22:40] <NovceGuru> http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-multifunction-power-tool-67537.html
[13:22:43] <Horologium> they even do some free samples.
[13:22:56] <NovceGuru> polycase is good too
[13:24:10] <tld> hmm, very nice. :)
[13:25:14] <tld> thanks. :)
[13:29:48] <OSterver> NovceGuru,
[13:29:55] <NovceGuru> Hi
[13:30:00] <OSterver> still not solved?
[13:30:03] <NovceGuru> no :(
[13:30:11] <OSterver> what is the issue?
[13:30:32] <NovceGuru> not really sure where to go, I'm learning C by taking over a project so im swimming in a sea of fail
[13:30:49] <OSterver> i have got only one hand, the other one is holding board from phone with battery, being jtagged for the 5th time now
[13:30:51] <OSterver> hmm?
[13:31:03] <NovceGuru> when I switch from one chip to another, I can't compile, with the exact error here:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=982126
[13:31:20] <NovceGuru> switching from the atxmega32d4 to atxmega128d4
[13:31:38] <NovceGuru> Error1unknown type name 'PORTCFG_VP0MAP_t'
[13:32:19] <OSterver> is it defined in the original iox*.h file?
[13:33:54] <NovceGuru> hmm looking closer it's not, I wonder if that's an atmel bug?
[13:34:37] <NovceGuru> after typedef enum PORTCFG_VP0MAP_enum {} there's PORTCFG_VP0MAP_t; in the io32d4.h file, but not in the io128d4.h file
[13:35:04] <OSterver> it should be iox32d4
[13:35:32] <NovceGuru> yeah iox, sorry
[13:35:39] <OSterver> hmm
[13:35:40] <OSterver> strange
[13:35:40] <NovceGuru> let me try adding whats missing on the 128 file
[13:40:12] <NovceGuru> actually it seems none of the stuff is in the iox128d4.h file
[13:40:19] <NovceGuru> that refernces those virtual ports
[13:40:19] <NovceGuru> hm
[13:42:29] <OSterver> interesting
[13:49:02] <megal0maniac> 'lo folks
[13:49:57] <RikusW> hi
[13:49:58] <tobbor> Hello RikusW
[13:50:11] <megal0maniac> hi tobbor
[13:50:20] <megal0maniac> :P
[13:50:40] <OSterver> tell us abooot your project
[13:50:41] <RikusW> he did confuse quite a few people :-P
[13:51:06] <megal0maniac> Is that a new feature rue added?
[13:52:22] <RikusW> megal0maniac: check out LM837 is a higher speed opamp I got from mantech
[13:52:38] <RikusW> old feature actually
[13:57:57] <NovceGuru> woooh! copy and pasted it into submission
[14:02:00] <NovceGuru> OSterver: it seems the iox128d4.h file was missing this info:
http://pastebin.com/Gak6gE84
[14:06:31] <OSterver> tell it to atmel :)
[14:06:39] <OSterver> are you using latest as6?
[14:07:36] <OSterver> hmm as6 sp1 is out
[14:09:51] <Xark> OSterver: Thanks for the tip. :)
[14:10:04] <OSterver> which one?
[14:10:24] <Xark> as6 sp1 is out. :)
[14:10:27] <NovceGuru> OSterver: yeah sp1 also
[14:10:56] <OSterver> oh
[14:10:59] <OSterver> hmm
[14:11:04] <OSterver> tell it to atmel :)
[14:11:31] <OSterver> wow, they have even fixed w8 compatibility issues
[14:11:32] <OSterver> nice
[14:12:08] <NovceGuru> registering to tell them
[14:13:43] <Blecha> OSterver are you going to make an FPGA + xmega board any time soon?
[14:14:10] <OSterver> no
[14:14:25] <OSterver> too much FPGAs to choose from
[14:14:31] <OSterver> too much variables
[14:18:09] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Hadn't seen it happen until recently. That opamp looks good, but it's quad :)
[14:18:27] * Xark finds if kind of odd that the Atmel Studio "mascot" is a bug (a cute one, but still). :)
[14:18:53] <Horologium> you don't remember the microsoft butterfly? which was also a bug.
[14:18:57] <Horologium> just a bigger one!
[14:19:10] <megal0maniac> What would you do with an xmega and FPGA?
[14:19:32] <Horologium> avr/fpga on a single chip died out it seems.
[14:20:00] <specing> It was never FPGA
[14:20:08] <specing> what they had was not even close to a FPGA
[14:20:18] <Horologium> is what they called it.
[14:20:21] <specing> It was a CPLD at most
[14:21:12] <megal0maniac> I've only ever seen microcontrollers (PIC) and FPGA on the same board, when the uC was only supervisory. Just for programming the FPGA
[14:21:46] <specing> xilinx makes FPGA + dual/quad cortex-a9 on the same chip AFAIK
[14:24:51] <Blecha> megal0maniac what wouldn't you do with an FPGA/AVR?
[14:25:25] <Blecha> I small usb series AVR would be awesome
[14:25:29] <Blecha> A small*
[14:26:08] <megal0maniac> Blecha: 8/16/32u2/4?
[14:26:36] <OSterver> tiny85 with vusb? :D
[14:26:38] <Blecha> I dont know much about requirements for FPGA programming but I assume its very light
[14:27:03] <Blecha> pin count is a bit low isn't it?
[14:27:08] <OSterver> i was joking
[14:27:12] <megal0maniac> Well people seem to use the PIC18F14K50 for just about everything
[14:27:17] <Blecha> I hoped :P
[14:27:19] <megal0maniac> And that's 20 pin
[14:27:29] <specing> Blecha: FPGA toolchain == 12 GB of HDD space
[14:27:41] <specing> Blecha: FPGA compile time for led blinker == 3 minutes
[14:27:57] <megal0maniac> You have to compile the firmware AND the circuit it runs on :P
[14:28:09] <megal0maniac> Or "synthesise"
[14:28:18] <megal0maniac> That spelling has to be wrong
[14:28:27] <Blecha> yeah, but I know what you meant
[14:29:00] <Blecha> It would be cool in a magic fairy land to have an analog version of the FPGA
[14:29:19] <OSterver> huh
[14:29:54] <Blecha> Magic variable inductors, capacitors, and filter goodies
[14:30:06] <specing> Blecha: yup, and its called SPICE
[14:30:08] <Blecha> that could all be controlled by code, again... in magic fairy land
[14:30:37] <specing> Best I've done on a FPGA was a serial port receiver :D
[14:30:37] <OSterver> well you could sample analog inputs
[14:30:42] <OSterver> do the "analog" stuff in digital form
[14:30:48] <OSterver> and then use DAC to generate analog output again :P
[14:30:59] <specing> took me 40h of work
[14:31:08] <specing> working* with FPGAs to do it
[14:31:10] <Blecha> specing, I was sad with my spice though. It failed to properly run a simple monostable based on a couple transistors
[14:31:19] <Blecha> ltspice I think it was
[14:31:33] <specing> Blecha: yeah, simulation sucks
[14:31:46] <Blecha> and really I mean for finished products
[14:31:48] <specing> unless you spend $$$$$ for "professional" software
[14:32:02] <Blecha> I suck hardcore at RF stuff and anything else analog
[14:32:13] <specing> but then it sucks nevertheless, you just don't want to admit it since you paid so much
[14:32:18] <Blecha> It would be cool to just flash firmware onto a chip like everything else
[14:32:37] <Blecha> This is a now a bandpass filter
[14:32:42] * Blecha poof
[14:33:26] <OSterver> was that a capacitor explosion
[14:33:28] <OSterver> that poofed?
[14:33:29] <OSterver> :P
[14:33:34] <OSterver> hole in the chip :P
[14:34:15] <Blecha> Maybe I can make analog chips, i just have to release the perfect ammount of magic smoke
[14:34:41] <Amadiro> huh, I wasn't aware atmel made FPGAs.
[14:35:02] <OSterver> atmel makes GALs
[14:35:04] <OSterver> and CPLDs
[14:35:07] <OSterver> not sure about FPGAs
[14:35:15] <Amadiro> GALs? ew
[14:35:24] <Amadiro> OSterver, they do
http://www.atmel.com/products/other/field_programmable_gate_array/default.aspx
[14:35:24] <Blecha> Really I just need a good teacher that will force me to do stuff the "old school" way, but when I see stuff like an accidental multivibrator on a breadboard with no capacitors it scares me
[14:35:41] <specing> Amadiro: GArbage Logic :)
[14:35:46] <OSterver> :D
[14:35:49] <Amadiro> you bet
[14:36:03] <OSterver> Amadiro, it depends, do they still sell them? :P
[14:36:31] <specing> Blecha: I see your vibrator and I raise you a multivibrator!
[14:37:07] <Amadiro> OSterver, looks like it
[14:37:15] <Blecha> sabian specing
[14:37:24] <Blecha> or sabyan
[14:37:34] <OSterver> sabian?
[14:37:49] <Blecha> It is the ultimate in the vibrator world
[14:37:55] <OSterver> there is only one remotely relevant vibrating tool
[14:38:01] <OSterver> with similar name
[14:38:02] <OSterver> sybian
[14:38:07] <Blecha> Yes!
[14:38:07] <OSterver> or sibian
[14:38:09] <Blecha> that thing
[14:38:09] <OSterver> ...
[14:38:16] <specing> ...
[14:38:28] <Blecha> yeah... pretty impressive isn't it
[14:38:33] <specing> And on 30.9.2012 Blecha vibrated away...
[14:38:41] <OSterver> (coming from europe makes me want to kill somebody for inventing both Y and I and having them the "same" meaning (not always!) in CZE)
[14:39:20] <specing> in english?
[14:39:24] <Blecha> I still fail at english and its my first language
[14:39:43] <Blecha> Its not even a language really, its a mutt mix of words the other languages didn't want anymore
[14:40:14] <OSterver> Blecha, that would be hungarian
[15:43:41] <enbloc> ATmega328P - Fig 27-162 - I/O Pin output voltage vs source current
[15:43:42] <enbloc> Is this graph showing the stiffness of the output drive, or is it saying that if I run Vcc at 5V a pin's ability to source current goes to zero?
[15:44:46] <Tom_itx> they should source 20-40ma
[15:44:57] <Tom_itx> with port limitations
[15:47:03] <enbloc> port limitations?
[15:47:18] <Tom_itx> around 200ma iirc
[15:48:57] <RikusW> 40mA max per pin
[15:49:06] <RikusW> 200mA max for Vcc pin
[15:49:42] <enbloc> ok - I know about the total limit, the port limitation threw me - I thought there was some other limitation beyond that
[15:50:11] <enbloc> (ie 200ma total, but no more than 80 per port or something like that)
[15:51:30] <RikusW> 20mA per port abs max = 40mA
[15:58:07] <OSterver> <RikusW> 200mA max for Vcc pin
[15:58:10] <OSterver> per Vcc-GND pair :)
[15:58:14] <OSterver> better to say
[15:58:31] <megal0maniac> Which means per-port on xmega?
[15:58:35] <OSterver> per port
[15:58:38] <megal0maniac> (more or less)
[15:58:41] <OSterver> on mega it is not necessarily per port
[15:58:48] <OSterver> (usually it is per 2 or 3 ports those 200mA)
[15:58:59] <megal0maniac> Well mega328 only has one VCC GND pair
[15:59:00] <OSterver> I think that 20mA is recommended max, 40mA is absolute maximum for sinking/driving on (x)mega
[15:59:07] <OSterver> aye
[15:59:09] <OSterver> that's why I said it :)
[15:59:20] <OSterver> afk again
[15:59:26] <OSterver> hopefuly the phone will flashing today
[15:59:29] <OSterver> (I doubt it)
[15:59:34] <OSterver> bloody JTAG being slow :(
[15:59:41] <OSterver> and hopefuly the phone will work again!
[15:59:46] <megal0maniac> How long has it been going?
[15:59:54] <megal0maniac> And what are you using to jtag it?
[16:17:24] <OSterver> megal0maniac, about an hour including the time it was stuck
[16:17:26] <OSterver> I am using riff box
[16:20:16] <RikusW> an hour ?! ouch
[16:20:25] <RikusW> how large is that fw ?
[16:20:58] <megal0maniac> Eeek! $150 box
[16:21:05] <megal0maniac> I'll pass :)
[16:22:43] <OSterver> RikusW, half gig
[16:22:52] <OSterver> it goes about 60kB/s when it can not properly compress the data
[16:23:27] <OSterver> $150 is not bad :)
[16:23:36] <OSterver> I wish it had other (nonphone) ARM targets as well though
[16:24:00] <OSterver> the only "nonphone" ARM target is atmel's arm9 CPU with 400 BGA pins
[16:24:15] <OSterver> it is neat little device
[16:24:21] <OSterver> you can even connect gdb to it
[16:24:26] <OSterver> and it can do trace32 stuff too
[16:24:49] <RikusW> 500MB is a lot....
[16:24:56] <OSterver> it is full nand image
[16:25:26] <OSterver> not sure why but reflashing SBL + MIBIB + whatever it flashes automatically within ressurrection mode + manually flashing also radio software didn't help
[16:25:30] <OSterver> so I managed to find full nand image
[16:25:36] <OSterver> 50kB/s :(
[16:25:39] <OSterver> 2 hours left
[16:26:02] <OSterver> I want to get to the data partition which will be at least partially filled with FFs hopefuly
[16:26:24] <megal0maniac> Can you read from the filesystem, or only flash to it?
[16:26:35] <OSterver> you can do whatever you want
[16:26:37] <OSterver> it is JTAG :)
[16:27:18] <OSterver> you don't read filesystem
[16:27:22] <OSterver> you can dump whole filesystem :D
[16:28:13] <OSterver> there is partition table - either (on some phones) classic MBR/.. stuff or on HTCs sometimes their proprietary partition table
[16:28:26] <OSterver> few bootloaders, radio software
[16:28:26] <OSterver> etc
[16:29:42] <OSterver> http://tempah.myxboard.net/hd2.zip
[16:29:50] <OSterver> some photos from the disassembly :)
[16:29:55] <OSterver> and during flashing
[16:30:18] * megal0maniac starts downloading
[16:30:24] <megal0maniac> 8mins left
[16:30:36] <OSterver> heh
[16:30:39] <OSterver> it is only 15MB :D
[16:30:46] <megal0maniac> 384kbps line
[16:30:50] <OSterver> ..
[16:30:55] <OSterver> LIVING ON THE EDGE!
[16:31:03] <OSterver> (where EDGE is phone connection)
[16:31:15] <megal0maniac> :P
[16:31:37] <megal0maniac> My phone *is* actually before the time of 3G
[16:31:45] <megal0maniac> I do have a newer phone, but I like this one
[16:32:00] <megal0maniac> In other news, "boot0: error_"
[16:32:43] <OSterver> what are you trying to boot? :D
[16:32:57] <megal0maniac> GRUB
[16:33:02] <OSterver> ah
[16:33:04] <OSterver> on the phone? :D
[16:33:11] <megal0maniac> Heh.
[16:34:28] <megal0maniac> I changed SATA mode back to AHCI (was in IDE when I installed) and GRUB loads. But Crunchbang does not. Just heard hrd drive spin down. Lots of ATA bus errors and COMRESET failed.
[16:35:00] <megal0maniac> Back it IDE :)
[16:35:53] <megal0maniac> NOOOOOOOOOOOO
[16:36:29] <megal0maniac> Wait what?
[16:37:01] <megal0maniac> Loads of failures and errors, making me think hard drive is about to explode, and then it boots fine
[16:37:33] <OSterver> looniks.
[16:37:58] <megal0maniac> For a change, I agree
[16:38:07] <megal0maniac> FINISHED downloading
[16:41:15] <OSterver> about 5 hours till new episode is uploaded
[16:41:15] <OSterver> OF
[16:41:17] <OSterver> DEXTER!!!
[16:42:07] <megal0maniac> Zakázaný prístup
[16:42:13] <megal0maniac> :(
[16:42:34] <megal0maniac> Heck, what character encoding is this using?
[16:42:51] <karlp> utf8
[16:42:56] <megal0maniac> OSterver: That was supposed to be the text that goes along with a 404 error
[16:43:33] <megal0maniac> karlp: ISO8859
[16:43:38] <megal0maniac> Zakázaný pÅ™Ãstup
[16:43:51] <megal0maniac> That's a little better (UTF-8 now)
[16:44:32] <megal0maniac> OSterver: !!!
[16:44:52] <megal0maniac> In WP_000007.jpg
[16:45:09] <megal0maniac> to the right of the hynix chip
[16:45:17] <megal0maniac> I see "TMEL"
[16:45:23] <OSterver> sec
[16:45:27] <megal0maniac> Could it be ATMEL? :)
[16:46:03] <OSterver> yes
[16:46:05] <OSterver> it most likely is
[16:46:33] <OSterver> I don't think it is atmega88v though :D
[16:47:25] <OSterver> notice how on the last photos I have changed those pogo pins for not broken ones :P
[16:48:33] <megal0maniac> It has to be a mega88v. Nothing else fits
[16:48:46] <OSterver> (alldatasheets.com? :D)
[16:49:43] <megal0maniac> Just google. But then yes :)
[16:50:01] <megal0maniac> It comes in the right packages and it's 32pin
[16:54:03] <OSterver> hmm
[16:54:04] <OSterver> interesting
[16:54:09] <OSterver> once it is out of the jig I will take a deep look at it
[16:55:42] <megal0maniac> RikusW: You still there?
[16:56:46] <OSterver> also
[16:56:46] <OSterver> https://twitter.com/Majkler/status/252514888856002560/photo/1/large
[16:58:50] <RikusW> yep
[16:59:17] <megal0maniac> What do I do with libusb? :)
[16:59:26] <megal0maniac> There's already a version installed
[16:59:53] <megal0maniac> But it can't find usb.h so it's obviously not sufficient
[17:00:20] <RikusW> the dev files for it....
[17:00:37] <RikusW> or you can comment the usb code since you won't be using it
[17:00:39] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... Time for synaptic
[17:01:13] <RikusW> just return failed for all usb functions
[17:01:27] <RikusW> there is like 5 or 6
[17:01:28] <megal0maniac> RikusW: It'll be easier to install it :)
[17:01:31] <OSterver> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2
[17:01:34] <OSterver> I want this to my basement
[17:03:17] <OSterver> I also want half gigabyte of memory in SRAM
[17:03:37] <OSterver> why haven't I lived in those times :(
[17:04:27] <OSterver> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray_Y-MP_EL
[17:04:46] <RikusW> would the cray SRAM be faster then modern DDR3 I wonder ?
[17:05:15] <OSterver> no
[17:05:18] <OSterver> it was 167MHz
[17:05:31] <RikusW> the latency might be better
[17:05:49] <OSterver> transfer rates too
[17:05:54] <OSterver> by far
[17:07:26] <megal0maniac> RikusW: ./RavrProgQt: error while loading shared libraries: libRavrProg.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[17:08:50] <RikusW> ah
[17:09:04] <megal0maniac> I'm sorry
[17:09:04] <RikusW> make a link from /usr/lib to it
[17:09:13] <RikusW> I found that to be the easiest solution
[17:09:18] <megal0maniac> I didn't read the readme
[17:09:40] <RikusW> ln -s ....
[17:10:31] <megal0maniac> Whoohoo!
[17:10:33] <RikusW> I still need to add flash verification........
[17:10:37] * megal0maniac called upon SUDO
[17:10:40] <RikusW> working ? :)
[17:10:52] <megal0maniac> RikusW: yes, it's shiny
[17:11:13] <RikusW> and it does automatic mode switching for U2S too
[17:11:37] <OSterver> megal0maniac, hmm can't read the beginning of the chip, but it looks like atmega88v really :D
[17:11:42] <OSterver> but what would that be doing in such device!
[17:11:59] <megal0maniac> OSterver: Just chilling :)
[17:12:08] <OSterver> of course
[17:12:09] <OSterver> :D
[17:12:14] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Lol at dmesg
[17:12:15] <OSterver> aren't V chips only 8MHz? :P
[17:12:26] <megal0maniac> Product: U2S
[17:12:26] <RikusW> why ?
[17:12:32] <RikusW> ah
[17:12:33] <megal0maniac> Manufacturer: U2S
[17:12:35] <OSterver> :D
[17:12:40] <megal0maniac> SerialNumber: U2S
[17:13:11] * RikusW saved a few bytes and pointed all to the same string :-P
[17:13:29] <OSterver> :D
[17:13:33] <RikusW> there is no more space left in the bootloader....
[17:13:48] <RikusW> really, not even one instruction....
[17:13:59] <OSterver> haha
[17:14:13] <megal0maniac> How big did you make the bootloader?
[17:14:19] <RikusW> 2k
[17:14:34] <megal0maniac> RikusW: We've found an atmega88V in a phone :)
[17:14:45] <RikusW> seen so
[17:15:03] * megal0maniac must know what it's for
[17:15:29] <RikusW> have you seen the RavrProgQt fuse calculator ? you don't even need to connect to an AVR to use it
[17:15:37] <RikusW> just select the AVR and go to the fuses tab
[17:18:15] <megal0maniac> Nothing happens there...
[17:18:30] <megal0maniac> I can change contents of text box. Nothing more
[17:19:51] <megal0maniac> Terminal says "ReadFuse unknown widget"
[17:20:55] <RikusW> but you do see fuse settings above it ?
[17:21:18] <RikusW> you must first select some AVR in the first tab
[17:22:11] <megal0maniac> Ah, now I do
[17:22:13] <Horologium> the cubes are everywhere!
[17:22:15] <Horologium> eerr...
[17:22:27] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Also, if you select ISP and click connect, nothing happens. If you do it as root, then it freezes and says "Read 0 bytes" a lot. I have connected something and the signature is correct
[17:23:06] <RikusW> hmm serial buggyness :S
[17:23:22] <RikusW> but it does read the signature ? is it slow or not ?
[17:23:48] <megal0maniac> Quick to read sig, but then frozen. Seems to need root access, but I haven't changed my udev rules
[17:24:16] <RikusW> it needs access to /dev/ttyACM0
[17:24:23] <megal0maniac> I know :)
[17:24:29] <megal0maniac> Just haven't done it yet
[17:24:37] <RikusW> serial api's is buggy :S
[17:25:27] <RikusW> whats your kernel version ?
[17:25:38] <RikusW> uname -a
[17:25:48] <megal0maniac> 3.2.03amd64
[17:25:52] <megal0maniac> Oh, used uname -r
[17:26:02] <megal0maniac> Same thing :)
[17:26:05] <RikusW> fine
[17:26:11] <RikusW> 2.6.18-4-686
[17:26:18] <RikusW> quite old....
[17:26:30] <megal0maniac> This is based on Debian testing
[17:26:41] <RikusW> too lazy for a manual upgrade....
[17:26:54] <RikusW> I did actually on previous installations
[17:27:57] <RikusW> the serial stuff did give me a fair amount of trouble by hanging....
[17:34:04] <megal0maniac> udev isn't playing nicely. I shall tackle it tomorrow when I'm awake :)
[17:34:13] <megal0maniac> Night all.
[17:34:24] <RikusW> heh, it is 00:30 already ;)
[17:34:26] <RikusW> gn
[17:34:47] <Horologium> bah...just about 17:30 here.
[17:39:36] * OSterver thinks that Horologium is living in the past
[17:39:46] <Horologium> of course.
[18:43:58] <Horologium> sooo quiet.
[18:44:35] <Richard_Cavell> what would you like me to say?
[18:44:41] <Horologium> dunno.
[18:44:41] * vectory makes some noise
[18:45:03] <Horologium> so, Richard_Cavell, figure out your problem? Somehow it seems like a libusb issue there.
[18:45:40] <Richard_Cavell> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=125423
[18:45:50] <Richard_Cavell> I told you, I have one response and it's simply "learn to use the equipment, dumbass"
[18:45:58] <Richard_Cavell> And I'm like, "that's why I'm ****ing posting here"
[18:46:05] <Casper> why is poutine so tasty, yet so unhealthy? :(
[18:46:31] <Horologium> so, did that post help any?
[18:46:57] <Horologium> was the board not secured properly?
[18:47:00] <Richard_Cavell> well, a little
[18:47:06] <Richard_Cavell> it doesn't feel like it's secured properly
[18:47:16] <Richard_Cavell> You know what I need is a youtube video or someone familiar with it to personally show me
[18:47:55] <Horologium> aaahh, what did people do before youtube, twitter, facebook, and irc?
[18:49:01] <Horologium> we programmed our microcontrollers with toggle switches!
[18:49:02] <Horologium> [:
[18:52:12] <Richard_Cavell> at least I could get that to work!
[18:55:16] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Here ya go ->
http://hackaday.com/2012/09/24/programming-a-microcontroller-one-bit-at-a-time/
[18:55:30] <Xark> :)
[18:59:55] <Richard_Cavell> woohoo!
[19:00:43] <Horologium> working, eh?
[19:01:28] <Horologium> Xark, one might laugh, but I remember loading the bootstrap program on a TI-980B minicomputer one byte at a time with toggle switches when I was in the military.
[19:01:58] <Xark> Horologium: Oh yeah. I have an Altair in my garage. :)
[19:02:58] <Horologium> when I was in the military we had them all over the world.
[19:03:14] <Horologium> load the bootstrap program, run the check, boot machine, load OS from tape.
[19:04:07] <Xark> Horologium: Fun times. :)
[19:04:54] <Horologium> thems was the days.
[19:05:07] <Horologium> bootstrap was like 45 commands as I recall.
[19:05:21] <Horologium> if you screwed up one you had to do it all over again.
[19:39:57] <creep> Horologium<< :) i got this for 1 euro Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05e3:0608 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB-2.0 4-Port HUB
[19:41:00] <Horologium> how is the actual speed on it?
[19:41:16] <creep> it can handle the usb joystick
[19:42:02] <creep> i'll plug my control sticks and pedals in it
[19:43:54] <creep> my hall potmeter prototype works nicely, there will probably a minimal drift with temperature, but the zero should stay about zero
[19:44:01] <Horologium> sweet
[19:44:37] <creep> i'm currently hacking together the x-y gimbal system ;)
[19:45:16] <creep> dead hdds contain ultraprecision bearings
[19:45:24] <Horologium> ayup.
[19:45:38] <Horologium> I get a lot of parts from old copiers and printers.
[19:45:48] <Horologium> being as I fix them for a living, I have lots of pieces available to me.
[19:45:55] <creep> hdd rules :)
[19:46:44] <creep> btw i'd recommend a notebook cd main drive motor for your rotary encoder things
[19:47:34] <creep> you need at least an lm393 to get digital direction and step sensing
[19:48:02] <creep> (3 comparators is better though for 3 phase sensing)
[19:48:43] <Horologium> have considered using steppers/3-phase motors for input but never messed with it.
[19:49:04] <creep> stepper would fail if you turn it too slow ;<
[19:49:10] <Horologium> ayup.
[19:49:13] <creep> you'd get desyn
[19:49:16] <creep> c
[19:50:03] <creep> this needs real slow moving, but there is always a possibility
[19:51:51] <Horologium> other thing I've considered is using optical mouse sensors.
[19:52:10] <creep> works until it gets dirty ;<
[19:53:22] <creep> for example i'd like to use these for remote controlling real thing too, and i wouldn't like it to fail
[19:54:04] <Horologium> can't say as I've had optical mouse sensors fail very often due to being dirty.
[19:54:04] <creep> usb connectivity is just extra
[19:55:22] <creep> my mouse buttons died for example
[19:55:36] <Horologium> not talking about buttons.
[19:55:38] <creep> replaced them with hall buttons, now they'll last forever
[19:55:44] <Horologium> talking about the non-contact optical sensor.
[19:56:19] <creep> yeah well a hair is enough to create false signals
[19:56:29] <creep> or no signals
[19:56:45] <Horologium> in the end, nothing is foolproof.
[19:56:48] <Horologium> just fool resistant.
[19:57:18] <creep> magnetic sensing can take a fair amount of hair and dirt
[19:57:55] <creep> when the thing becomes hard to move you will consider cleaning it
[19:58:36] <Horologium> ayup.
[19:58:52] <Horologium> still...take an optical trackball,,,drill a hole in the ball and stick in a stick.
[19:59:45] <creep> so stepper position sensing works by induction, U_i = B * L * v, where v is the relative speed of magnetic field and solenoid
[20:01:10] <creep> another way would be to use hall rotary encoder ;/
[20:02:19] <creep> there is a 3 phase position sensing techniq used in military but not simple, it probes the 3 phase windings and calculates position of the rotor
[20:02:54] <Horologium> isn't something similar used for position and speed sensing on 3-phase motors?
[20:03:22] <Horologium> watch voltage and current draw on each phase.
[20:03:31] <creep> you mean bldc ? not really, that just needs commutation
[20:03:51] <creep> induction motor ? yessomething similar
[20:04:16] <creep> AC - where the magic happens
[20:04:34] <Horologium> black magic!
[20:04:44] <Horologium> much like makefiles
[20:04:49] <creep> sqrt(-1) at work :)
[20:05:27] <Horologium> sqrt(-1)/0
[20:06:30] <creep> ( sqrt(-1)/0*0 ) ^ 2 = ?
[20:11:24] <creep> (0/0)*0 ?= 0/(0*0) this is not that easy with zero anymore
[20:25:54] <jadew> I just decoded something for the first time with the logic analyzer :D
[20:25:57] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/first_decode_spi.png
[20:26:00] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/first_decode_measure.png
[20:27:10] <jadew> and this is the spi protocol parser script (not finished):
http://dumb.ro/files/spi.js.txt
[20:31:13] * jadew pokes w|zzy, check that out when you get a chance, it's gonna be ready soon :)
[22:42:01] <Richard_Cavell> Holy mother of God!!!!!!
[22:42:03] <Richard_Cavell> It works!
[22:42:17] * Richard_Cavell just successfully programmed an AVR and is now running it in circuit and it bloody works
[22:44:18] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac_afk: share in my joy
[22:56:09] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Yay! :D
[22:57:58] <Richard_Cavell> crikey
[23:06:50] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: This is using your parallel port cable?
[23:06:56] <Richard_Cavell> no
[23:07:02] <Richard_Cavell> I used my stk600 with a Mac
[23:07:11] <Xark> Richard_Cavell: Ahh, cool.
[23:27:18] <Roklobsta> hey AVRers, any AVR expert in melbourne australia looking for paid AVR ASAP!?
[23:27:36] <Roklobsta> paid avr firmware work i should add
[23:30:12] <creep> Richard_Cavell<< at last! my greatest work is compleeted! ;>>
[23:30:24] <creep> Richard_Cavell<< its aliiivee!
[23:30:31] <Richard_Cavell> yes indeedy
[23:30:39] <Richard_Cavell> it is my greatest ever electronics project
[23:34:40] <Roklobsta> no takers for paid avr work?
[23:34:44] <Roklobsta> really?
[23:35:09] <creep> Roklobsta<< how much ? what project?
[23:35:27] <Roklobsta> creep are you able to go to Brunswick?
[23:36:02] <creep> i don't take travelling work
[23:36:39] <creep> unless...
[23:37:06] <creep> 100000$+
[23:37:48] <Roklobsta> bzzzt sorry
[23:38:45] <creep> why is it needed to travel for a microcontroller project ?;/
[23:39:19] <creep> board prototype can be mailed too
[23:46:50] <Roklobsta> because it's an urgent job
[23:47:07] <Roklobsta> it's not a sit-in-the-lab-at-home job
[23:51:24] <creep> i work 12-27 hours a day in the lab, so?
[23:53:03] <creep> or you have avr board assembly machinery to be fixed ?
[23:55:22] <creep> Richard_Cavell<< what microcomputer did you program? something interesting project?
[23:55:41] <Richard_Cavell> I programmed an atmega328p to flash an LED
[23:56:17] <creep> ;< well, tine to advance then, i use a cmos not gate with schmitt trigger for that
[23:56:20] <creep> *time
[23:56:49] <creep> how about a night rider running light ?
[23:58:02] <creep> it was my first project with 2 buttons multiplexed onto 2 of the pulldown leds, speed setting, button debounce
[23:58:09] <creep> on/off
[23:58:28] <Richard_Cavell> well this tutorial has us modifying the source code to do stuff like that
[23:58:35] <Richard_Cavell> so I'll proceed and we'll see
[23:58:43] <creep> asm or c?
