#avr | Logs for 2012-09-24

Back
[03:36:56] <megal0maniac_afk> !time
[03:36:57] <tobbor> My watch says its 01:26AM Mon Sep 24 2012
[03:42:14] <megal0maniac_afk> Hello everyone
[04:38:48] <megal0maniac> Could someone please quickly check if they can access this page? http://megal0maniac.mine.nu/
[04:39:07] <Steffanx> yes
[04:39:31] <Roklobsta> yes. it's boring
[04:39:33] <megal0maniac> Good, thanks
[04:39:36] <megal0maniac> I know :)
[04:43:54] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: How's it all going mate?
[04:44:02] <Richard_Cavell> I finished playing Braid and I'm still playing Batman
[04:45:19] <megal0maniac> How can you ever finish braide? :|
[04:46:59] <Richard_Cavell> Ha!
[04:47:04] <megal0maniac> Been trying to port RikusW's U2S board to Arduino. Then I stopped trying and set up IRC logging and a web server on my router. Although it logs to RAM at the moment. Persistent storage will come later.
[04:47:05] <Richard_Cavell> Took me about 4 days
[04:48:40] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, don't you get like a special ending or something once you've collected all the pieces? I never even made the effort...
[04:49:02] <Richard_Cavell> Yeah once you've solved all the jigsaw puzzles you get another level called 1.
[04:49:04] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Nor have I. But I do own the game
[04:49:14] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/first_samples.png
[04:49:16] <Richard_Cavell> And it's like a time trial, then it plays back in reverse
[04:49:24] * megal0maniac collects humble bundles
[04:49:50] <megal0maniac> jadew: Hey! Looking good :)
[04:49:54] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, yeh, I have all of those as well. I think I bought amnesia 3 times, now... first when it came out, then with two of the HIBs...
[04:49:59] <jadew> I know, right? :D
[04:50:41] <megal0maniac> Roklobsta: I could make it prettier if I used PHP to do it instead, but I don't know PHP, and it isn't installed, and meh. Effort :)
[04:51:15] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, that'd be the first time I've seen something get prettier from using PHP ;)
[04:51:58] <megal0maniac> Lol
[04:52:38] <megal0maniac> Well, I had something like Tom_itx 's logging in mind. But it's really just for me. Don't need _another_ log of this channel.
[04:52:41] <jadew> you can quickly get into php
[04:52:52] <jadew> php is like the retarded sister of all the other languages
[04:53:34] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, most irc clients can do logging & there are bots (like eggdrop) available that can do it as well, if that's what you're talking about
[04:53:49] <megal0maniac> This is my web server & IRC client. And the reason I'll need to add storage if I even want to run PHP http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-WR1043ND
[04:54:01] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: http://megal0maniac.mine.nu
[04:54:26] <jadew> openwrt?
[04:54:28] <megal0maniac> irssi already does it :) There's a port of eggdrop for openwrt, but it's unnecessary
[04:54:33] <megal0maniac> jadew: Yep
[04:54:41] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, .nu? weird
[04:54:53] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: dyndns free domain
[04:54:57] <Amadiro> I see
[04:55:01] <jadew> megal0maniac, you can add a sd card to it
[04:55:17] <jadew> if it doesn't have it, you can probably hook it up to the gipo pins
[04:55:29] <jadew> and I'm fairly sure openwrt has a driver especially for that
[04:56:05] <jadew> (you might have to give up some of the LEDs tho)
[04:56:16] <karlp> meh, the whole point of using a router is so you don't have to go soldering all over the shop
[04:56:20] <karlp> stick it in the usb port.
[04:56:35] <jadew> oh, it has USB
[04:56:36] <jadew> neat
[04:56:47] <megal0maniac> jadew: I've done it with flash drive, but it's horribly slow. And the flash drive I use is in another box at the moment. I just don't feel like it if PHP is the only reason for doing it :)
[04:56:48] <karlp> if you're buying a router these days without usb, you're doing it wrong
[04:57:03] <karlp> stop buying cheap shit slow usb sticks then megal0maniac :)
[04:59:14] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: better? http://www.michaelrodger.co.za
[04:59:43] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I guess, I wasn't complaining :)
[05:00:53] <megal0maniac> (Relevant) It works nicely with CDC serial AVRs
[05:01:06] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: May as well use the domain, it isn't free :/
[05:30:33] <megal0maniac> Stellaris boards start shipping tomorrow
[05:32:22] <megal0maniac> :detach
[05:32:29] <megal0maniac> Whoops
[05:35:17] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, cool. I've already pre-ordered a few a while ago, as well as some msp launchpads, and I've been really enjoying those
[05:35:40] <Amadiro> in particular single-stepping the cpu with `mspdebug`, dumping the registers etc
[05:35:57] <Amadiro> No clue yet if I'll use them in anything serious though
[05:36:52] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: I was considering the MSP one, but having 4 unused m328p chips, I can't justify it
[05:37:07] <megal0maniac> How similar is the instruction set to megaAVR?
[05:37:39] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, only programmed them in C so far, haven't really looked at the instruction set more closely than seeing them fly by in the debugger
[05:38:30] <Amadiro> I guess they're not entirely unlike
[05:40:49] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, of course the instructions are 16 bit, though, so for instance the AND instruction would have an extra destination field, I think
[05:41:37] <Amadiro> similarly for others
[05:42:53] <Amadiro> hm, actually looks like its AND doesn't have an extra destination field, so nevermind
[05:43:16] <Amadiro> but yeh, compare yourself
[05:45:44] <megal0maniac> Well, with the Stellaris one, it was more a case of "SO MUCH FOR SO LITTLE! Must buy."
[05:46:19] <megal0maniac> It's something else altogether
[05:46:32] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, thats true, but the msp one is still a really good deal, IMO
[05:46:45] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, you get two MCUs, one USB cable and a programmer for 4.60$
[05:46:50] <karlp> onboard debug is the future
[05:47:12] <megal0maniac> AVR debug is a mission :/
[05:47:13] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, compare to an arduino which basically does less cool stuff for like 25$ or so
[05:47:31] <Amadiro> (no clue how much the newer arduinos actually cost, I think they've gotten a lot cheaper)
[05:47:48] <megal0maniac> I think the Leonardo is about $20, IIRC
[05:47:57] <megal0maniac> But it's basically a m32u4 breakout
[05:47:59] <jadew> I never used an arduino, it sounds like overpriced avr + target board
[05:48:23] <Amadiro> jadew, you mostly pay for the "easy-to-use, easy-to-get-started" environment/ide with libraries
[05:48:34] * megal0maniac backspaces
[05:48:44] <megal0maniac> Was typing almost the exact same thing :)
[05:48:55] <Amadiro> its nice for just getting started & learning a bit, but not really something you'd want to build more serious stuff on, or you'd use to learn more advanced topics
[05:48:58] <megal0maniac> I started with an Arduino Uno R3 earlier this year.
[05:49:16] <Amadiro> although there isn't really anything in particular stopping you from programming your arduino in assembly, I guess, except for the lack of debug-ness
[05:49:21] <jadew> Amadiro, I found it easy to get started with out even a programmer
[05:49:47] <jadew> there's plenty of info online, taking you from building the programmer to doing the actual coding
[05:50:01] <megal0maniac> I bought the Uno and a programmer. When I got comfortable with Arduino, I jumped to ICSP and Atmel Studio
[05:50:16] <Amadiro> jadew, yes, it depends on where you come from. At my universities laboratory we use arduinos to teach basic MCU programming to people who are doing bachelors in design/user-interaction and only have taken one class in, say, java or web-development so far.
[05:50:46] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, now switch to emacs & makefiles, and you'll have reached enlightenment.
[05:50:58] <megal0maniac> I did 3 years of Java, Arduino was the first time I'd ever worked with anything which needed programming and wasn't a computer :)
[05:51:05] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Does vi count?
[05:51:13] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, if by vi you mean vim, then yes.
[05:51:25] <megal0maniac> I type "vi" and it starts :)
[05:51:28] <Amadiro> nobody uses vi anymore
[05:51:44] <megal0maniac> Are we talking about the CLI version?
[05:52:08] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I don't think the original vi version has a non-CLI of any description
[05:52:16] <Amadiro> vim has gvim
[05:52:38] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... Wasn't aware of the difference between vim and vi
[05:52:43] <megal0maniac> Now I am
[05:52:51] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, most distros just ln -s vi to vim, I guess.
[05:53:07] <megal0maniac> I use vi on my router, mostly
[05:53:18] <Amadiro> that might actually be the original vi, then, dunno
[05:53:19] <megal0maniac> It's my most active linux environment :P
[05:53:26] <Amadiro> I think it's still sometimes used when space is tight
[05:54:08] <megal0maniac> 8mb flash, so yeah.. I use VIM and WinAVR on my PC
[05:54:23] <megal0maniac> When Atmel Studio is too clunky
[05:54:25] <Amadiro> what's WinAVR
[05:54:35] <megal0maniac> Toolchain for windows
[05:54:43] <megal0maniac> avrdude, avrgcc, gdb etc
[05:54:45] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, so avr-gcc, I assume?
[05:54:47] <Amadiro> right
[05:55:34] <megal0maniac> Amusingly, I'm still not comfortable with C :P
[05:55:47] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, that's what I use as well. I have a dislike for IDEs (although I haven't tried AVRStudio yet), as I feel they usually deprive me of control and understanding of the build process and all intermediate steps (which I frequently need to pause at to inspect intermediate results et cetera)
[05:56:12] <Amadiro> although I do run emacs in graphical mode (for better font smoothing, layout, kerning et cetera) & use a bunch of (mostly self-written) helper scripts/integration for C
[05:56:53] <megal0maniac> I'm sort of learning AVRASM in parallel with C.
[05:57:01] <megal0maniac> What is your primary OS?
[05:57:18] <Amadiro> debian & archlinux
[05:58:00] <megal0maniac> Wheezy is the next linux distro I'm planning on trying out
[05:58:10] <megal0maniac> I've got gvim, but I don't really like it
[05:58:28] <megal0maniac> Set up notepad++ to sort-of work with avr-gcc
[05:58:44] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I've used vim before switching to emacs, but I eventually switched because it's workflow (using modes) as well as its lack of a proper extension/scripting language annoyed me
[05:59:52] <megal0maniac> I'm talking about gvim in particular, though. It looks like a glorified terminal emulator, running vim
[06:00:15] <megal0maniac> Haven't tried emacs. Yet.
[06:00:38] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I assume that's the point, vim natively runs in the terminal
[06:00:57] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, emacs GUI integration is a lot better, as it's considered a core-feature.
[06:05:29] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: http://i.imgur.com/NPEIg.png
[06:05:40] <megal0maniac> That's my current situation
[06:06:02] <megal0maniac> Set up macros to run make clean; make
[06:06:08] <megal0maniac> Simple, but it works nicely
[06:06:16] <megal0maniac> And I /really/ like the editor
[06:06:58] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, that's roughly how I do it. The important part about the editor is really just that it gives you all the flexibility and tools you need, and that you don't have to switch to a different editor to do something else (like using AVRStudio to program an atmel board, and code composer studio to program an MSP430 device)
[06:07:21] <Amadiro> That way, you can build up a library of shortcuts, tools, commands et cetera that you can re-use whatever you program
[06:08:16] <megal0maniac> It's also set up to work with avrdude. But the target is statically defined... Alternative is to have it as a "make program" target in the makefile, I suppose
[06:09:13] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I just have a makefile in each project that does the right thing to upload the code (whether through avrdude or some other tool like mspdebug), then I can just type M-x make and/or M-x make-run in my editor to compile & upload
[06:09:27] <Amadiro> So I basically re-write/modify my makefile for each project
[06:09:57] <megal0maniac> Learning makefiles is another thing on my todo list :)
[06:10:03] <megal0maniac> But that's the idea I had
[06:10:08] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, if you know shellscripting, it's really not hard
[06:10:14] * megal0maniac doesn't
[06:10:31] <Amadiro> well, it's basically like writing a bunch of commands into a file and then have them executed sequentially :P
[06:10:41] <megal0maniac> .bat? :P
[06:10:45] <Amadiro> except makefiles also allow you to structure those commands into "targets", and then have a dependency tree
[06:10:48] <Amadiro> pretty much
[06:11:28] <Amadiro> no clue what you'd use on windows, though, I think alternative make-implementations such as CMake can run on windows
[06:11:33] <Amadiro> but it's probably a lot of hassle and not pretty
[06:13:28] <megal0maniac> If I just type "make" in a CLI, it runs the one bundled with avr-gcc
[06:13:59] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I guess that's a port of gnu make then
[06:14:07] * megal0maniac knods
[06:14:22] <Amadiro> still, most of my makefiles probably wouldn't work on windows (and most you'll find on the net probably won't either), so you might have to put some extra effort into it
[06:15:26] <megal0maniac> The only things I've ever had an issue with is when there's make program defined, and the port is /dev/ttyWhatever
[06:15:36] <megal0maniac> Other than that, it seems pretty compatible
[06:15:36] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, if you care to try it, here's a makefile I pasted a while ago for somebody who wanted to program his/her arduino in pure C: http://pastie.org/4781980
[06:15:57] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, well, you can always do "make DEVICE=COM1" or whatever
[06:22:35] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Exactly. Although yours isn't working here...
[06:22:43] <megal0maniac> Oh good. emacs has arrived
[06:23:34] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I haven't actually tested it, so it might be broken anyhow (I don't have an arduino at home)
[06:24:02] <theBear> lol, a standard avr makefile in other words :)
[06:24:33] <Amadiro> theBear, I wrote it specifically for a person who wanted to program an arduino with it, but there probably isn't a whole lot of difference to what you'd use to program any other AVR, no
[06:25:35] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/N5Zk4FRp
[06:26:02] <theBear> it was just another of my half-ass digs at arduino and the whole absurdity of the whole thing
[06:26:20] <megal0maniac> theBear: I don't think it's absurd
[06:26:41] <megal0maniac> The way I see it, you pay for the software, not the board
[06:26:50] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, right, on window it's not called .o but .dll or so
[06:26:54] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, so you'd have to change that
[06:27:18] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Are you sure? There is a main.o file in the folder...
[06:27:43] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, actually, looks like it looks for a file just called ".o"
[06:28:05] <megal0maniac> Oh :)
[06:28:31] <theBear> megal0maniac, the way i see it, the software is a 'dumbed down' version of common and/or generic and/or unnecesarry libs/functions for avr/c, which then lead people to annoy the hell out of people like me asking questions with 'silly' function names instead of real code, wasting everyones time, but that's just how i feel, and some others
[06:29:11] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, for some reason the variable $BINNAME must be empty
[06:31:50] <megal0maniac> theBear: That may be true, but it's still a great way to start. It makes the learning curve less steep, especially for those with little or no C experience.
[06:32:28] <Amadiro> it sure is better than PICAXE or BASIC stamp
[06:33:49] <Amadiro> Also the influence it has on the uC manufacturers/designers is great, until a while ago, microcontroller boards where totally unaffordable to the hobbyists (especially if you count in the cost for getting a programmer)
[06:34:22] <Amadiro> now everybody is striving for producing the cheapest eval boards for their chips, like the launchpad, the chipkit uno32, and tons of other alternatives are available to the arduino like the teensy, digispark, ...
[06:35:09] <megal0maniac> It's also convenient. One board, one .zip (or tar gz) file and you're ready. You don't need an IDE and a toolchain and a uC and a programmer and supporting circuitry, and the need to config everything to work with everything else. It just works. It's dumbed down, but with good reason
[06:35:21] <theBear> megal0maniac, maybe, but personally i feel those with little or no C experience probably shouldn't be trying to code above their level... we all gotta learn somewhere
[06:35:55] <Amadiro> theBear, but programming MCUs is actually easier and teaches you more than to create programs for complex operating systems.
[06:36:01] <theBear> megal0maniac, ahh, now the bootloader i CAN appreciate, it's mainly the function/libs that get me down
[06:36:41] <megal0maniac> I'm that person. I started with Arduino (let alone any other embedded platform) around April this year. And my transition to C mainly had me looking at the source of those functions and libs to see what they did
[06:36:42] <theBear> Amadiro, i'm not saying don't learn on a micro, just don't learn some abstract set of libs just for the sake of avoiding learning a little syntax or basic programming techniques
[06:36:52] <megal0maniac> Now I'm out of n00bville, a mere few months later :)
[06:37:40] <Amadiro> theBear, yeh, it's just something to get you started.
[06:37:44] * megal0maniac quite likes emacs
[06:37:56] <theBear> megal0maniac, heh, you're also no fool, and well, back when i learned programming micros weren't 'accessible' to most of us, and computers didn't multi-task, but it was basically the same as learning to program a micro, and you were still outta noobville in a mere few months
[06:38:03] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, it takes quite a while to learn all its features and learn how to script it, but it's well-worth the time investment
[06:38:15] <theBear> i don't wanna push the point, it's just how i feel
[06:38:19] <megal0maniac> Can see the gnome influence :)
[06:38:29] <Amadiro> gnome influence?
[06:38:53] <megal0maniac> theBear: That's the only thing I must say. That fools shouldn't have access to many things. :)
[06:39:14] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Yeah, the icons look very gnome-like
[06:39:39] <theBear> megal0maniac, that'd be gtk-libs at a guess.. hang on, isn't emacs text ?
[06:39:44] <megal0maniac> Or GTK
[06:39:46] <megal0maniac> Yes, that
[06:39:56] <megal0maniac> (Just thought of GIMP)
[06:40:08] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, ah, it probably takes those from your gtk theme config or so. You can disable the icons/bar by putting (tool-bar-mode -1) in your emacs config file
[06:40:22] <theBear> you know gnome uses gtk libs right ? just for reference
[06:40:27] <Amadiro> you might also want to use (setq inhibit-splash-screen t) and (setq inhibit-startup-message t)
[06:40:31] <megal0maniac> I do, yes
[06:41:43] <megal0maniac> theBear: I also find that not being a fool helps when you need people to answer your questions (and thus take you seriously) ;)
[06:42:17] <megal0maniac> And I'm using the gui version. It's definitely gtk
[06:42:24] <theBear> megal0maniac, heh, some days (depending on mood/motivation) it makes a lot more difference than others, but i'll ALWAYS help an intelligent question asker if i possibly can
[06:42:31] <theBear> gui emacs ? wow, times have changed
[06:42:56] <megal0maniac> theBear: And it's quite nice. Unlike GVIM
[06:43:06] <megal0maniac> (Not to bash GVIM or anything...)
[06:43:36] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, http://paste.lisp.org/display/132021 here's my whole config, you might find useful bits.
[06:43:50] <theBear> vim is gui now too ?!!?!? wow, i been using nano exclusively for a LONG time now... and occasionally mousepad/leafpad (new name) for casual click+reading
[06:44:31] <Amadiro> theBear, for vim, the gui is not a core feature and ships as "gvim". It basically only provides a graphical terminal that vim runs in, with some added goodies. Emacs GUI is more of a core-feature (it has had it since a loooong time)
[06:44:46] * megal0maniac backspaces again
[06:44:54] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Thanks :)
[06:45:50] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, you might want to find an emacs tutorial (I think emacs might ship with something like vimtutor?) and work through those, it uses very different shortcuts from what windows applications normally use for things (like for instance C-s is "search" instead of "save", etc)
[06:46:05] <theBear> mmm.... i never 'got' the emacs craze, i've always been a big fan of very simple non-macro linear text editing softwares
[06:46:55] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Where is the config file? Or what is its name, anyway
[06:47:10] <megal0maniac> theBear: Can nano syntax highlight?
[06:47:31] * megal0maniac is a fan of VI too, fwiw
[06:47:33] <Amadiro> theBear, macros & scripting make a lot of things easier. For instance if I'm in "foobar.h", and I type M-x header-guard, I automatically get "#ifndef _FOOBAR_H_ #define ...blah blah blah #endif" wrapped around my file
[06:47:41] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, on linux, ~/.emacs
[06:49:00] <theBear> megal0maniac, not that i know of, i haven't seriously programmed for a while, but umm, what did i use ? hmmmmm.... nedit maybe ? maybe even kdevelop, i didn't mind that, handy stuff down the bottom, tabs, highlighting etc etc
[06:49:56] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Config file name? Everything is contained in the folder
[06:50:00] <theBear> Amadiro, it's true, but with what i did when i formed my opinions on text editing, learning/making macros seemed to take a lot more time than just 'doing' stuff... course back then linux didn't exist and neither did windows
[06:50:13] <theBear> heh, or colour screens for that matter <grin>
[06:50:32] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, dunno, it's just called .emacs on linux
[06:51:05] <Amadiro> theBear, it depends on whether you work a lot with text and do a lot of programming. I do both (LaTeX & a lot of programming), so having a lot of macros really pays off.
[06:51:49] <jadew> Amadiro, a decent IDE can kick any emacs based editor's ass
[06:51:55] <theBear> Amadiro, i imagine if i had never formed these feelings/comfortabalities long LONG ago, that i'd be a big believer, heck, i'm not too old to change my mind yet, but well, old habits die hard
[06:52:09] <theBear> oh :( i started a editor war
[06:52:13] <Amadiro> jadew, I'll believe that when I see it ;)
[06:52:17] <jadew> theBear, and you know me of course :P
[06:52:24] <jadew> Amadiro, install visual studio
[06:52:37] <Amadiro> jadew, I've tried it, and deemed it shit.
[06:52:42] <jadew> what?
[06:52:52] <jadew> it's the most powerful IDE out there
[06:53:02] <Amadiro> most other IDEs I've tried are better, like code::blocks
[06:53:04] <jadew> let me rephrase that, it's the best IDE out there
[06:53:15] <theBear> jadew, hehe :) and seriously ? visual studio ? i mean, i gave up on it last century, you know, 10 times burned etc etc, but seriosuly ?
[06:53:23] <Amadiro> as disclaimer, that was at least 5 years ago, however. I have not tried it since.
[06:53:26] <jadew> are we even having this conversation? that bugged piece of shit only dreams to be like VS
[06:53:36] <jadew> I tried it too, it sucked
[06:53:44] <jadew> lots of bugs, incomplete features
[06:54:06] <Amadiro> jadew, read however some of the requirements I mentioned earlier in the conversation; both visual studio, code::blocks as well as pretty much all other IDEs fail my basic requirements right away.
[06:54:12] <jadew> VS has been awesome since VS 2003
[06:54:20] <jadew> so that's longer than 5 years ago
[06:54:35] <jadew> which requirement is that?
[06:54:46] <theBear> hehe, but you can't say visual basic etc was awesome before win95 can yer ? that's right, it sucked balls !
[06:55:03] <jadew> it was ok for that time
[06:55:16] <jadew> I'd probably use something else now, if I had the choice tho
[06:55:43] <megal0maniac> Visual Studio is the best IDE, for jadew and his particular taste and requirements, out there
[06:56:12] <jadew> Amadiro, as a side note, a good editor doesn't need macros (altho VS has them), it should already do all the crap that you need
[06:56:14] <jadew> out of the box
[06:56:14] <Amadiro> jadew, that I -- first and foremost -- need a good, extensible, scriptable text-editor which can be adapted to any sort of textwork whatsoever, and is not bound to any particular language or framework, so that I can re-use my shortcuts, macros, snippets et cetera regardless of whether I'm writing code in one language or other; for one architecture or other; for one platform or the other; or whether I'm just writing a letter or LaTeX. Whether it has fanc
[06:56:15] <Amadiro> y features like code completion is almost completely irrelevant to me, as it takes me like 10 minutes to hack that up in emacs either way, if I really want it (and the language is so obscure that it doesn't already exist as extension)
[06:56:59] <theBear> it may have been ok as an editor, i found it's shortcomings in compilation and just flat out crashing kinda overshadowed everything else :)
[06:57:07] <Amadiro> jadew, entirely backwards, a good editor should not presuppose to know what you want to do, but instead give you solid, intuitive, bug-free building blocks that combine easily to do any task however complex you may desire
[06:57:16] <theBear> hehe, at least we all know what we want in an editor <grin>
[06:57:32] <jadew> Amadiro, how does that contradict me?
[06:57:40] <jadew> theBear, hehe, yeah
[06:57:57] <jadew> as a side editor (non IDE) I prefer notepad++ and geany on linux
[06:58:17] <Amadiro> jadew, seems obvious to me that we want the exact opposite things.
[06:58:49] <jadew> Amadiro, yeah, I guess you really like the way of doing things the emacs way
[06:58:51] <jadew> but why?
[06:59:41] <megal0maniac> Because reasons
[06:59:49] <theBear> heh, well played mega
[06:59:50] <Amadiro> jadew, as I said, it fulfills my basic criteria about being able to use one editor for whatever text-work I want to do (and it runs on all platforms I commonly use), and provides me with said building blocks that allow me to create complex re-usable macros that do repetitive tasks for me
[07:00:21] <jadew> Amadiro, I don't question the features
[07:00:32] <jadew> I just don't understand why someone would like that UI
[07:00:37] <jadew> you know :q
[07:00:42] <jadew> oh wait... :w :q
[07:00:53] <Amadiro> jadew, uh, that would be vim.
[07:00:58] <megal0maniac> :wq ?
[07:01:23] <jadew> so emacs doesn't follow the same... UI?
[07:01:33] <Amadiro> jadew, as vim? No? they're completely different editors.
[07:01:46] <jadew> ah, then I was talking rubbish
[07:01:54] <theBear> yeah, i don't use either, but even i know the basic differences <grin>
[07:01:55] <jadew> ignore the last 15 minutes, I don't know what I'm talking about
[07:02:03] <megal0maniac> jadew: http://i.imgur.com/POtSi.png
[07:02:17] <megal0maniac> It's GTK and relatively shiny
[07:02:20] <theBear> heh, not only do we know what we want, we're mature enough to admit when we were misled or confused... damn we're good
[07:02:28] <Amadiro> jadew, vim is also not a bad editor (I've used it before I switched over to emacs), but (as you've hinted at) the way to interact with it didn't fit my personal workflow, and its lack of a good scripting language annoyed me as well.
[07:03:16] <theBear> holy crap ! that is relatively shiny
[07:03:25] <jadew> yeah, I guess never used emacs tho, gonna give it a try next time I boot into linux
[07:03:54] <megal0maniac> Image support
[07:04:01] <megal0maniac> jadew: That's in Win7
[07:04:18] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/akyHP.png
[07:04:19] <theBear> wtf ? text editor with images ? that ain't right, that's a word-processor :)
[07:04:28] <jadew> megal0maniac, yeah, but I have everything my heart desires on windows
[07:04:38] <Amadiro> http://nsaunders.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/emacs23_rails.png you can pretty much style it however you want
[07:05:09] <megal0maniac> jadew: Well it's just a 40mb .zip file if you want to check it out
[07:05:15] <megal0maniac> No dependancies
[07:05:33] <jadew> too busy right now
[07:05:53] <jadew> between my job and the analyzer project, there's no much time left for anything else
[07:06:05] <megal0maniac> Heh :)
[07:06:08] <theBear> hehe, on friday my boss got all grumpy about some comment i made about the hassle of booting my 'racing car game' os at home in order to test/diagnose his little usb/serial dongle thingy.... this morning he didn't seem grumpy at all when i said i diagnosed it 'instantly' in 'my os' and then worked out why 'his os' didn't like it <grin>
[07:06:25] <theBear> oh no ! did i just start another err, debate ? please no
[07:06:30] <Amadiro> theBear, the GUI version of emacs can display rich-text documents, pdf files, images et cetera. It's not particularly useful most of the time, but if you want to write LaTeX in a slightly more WYSIWYG (i.e. formulas appear rendered as you type them) it comes in handy
[07:06:36] <megal0maniac> WINDOWS IS THE BEST
[07:06:50] <megal0maniac> theBear: It's not you, it's me
[07:07:13] <theBear> which reminds me, i gotta find PROOF that xp INSISTS on a 2mb minimum auto-created swapfile before tomorrow
[07:07:34] <megal0maniac> I've got 2mb to space, XP can have it
[07:07:44] <megal0maniac> Except, Windows 7
[07:07:57] <theBear> megal0maniac, heh, i've really learned to accept that over the last 5 years... i no longer advocate any os to ANYONE, i just say what i like, and that noone else should use it :)
[07:08:30] <theBear> megal0maniac, it's just you know, we're both techs, we're both kinda crazy and weird, and i'm pretty sure it's bugging him just as much as it's bugging me right now
[07:08:50] <theBear> i would not even be a little bit surprised if we've both got the 'real' answer by morning
[07:08:52] <megal0maniac> theBear: I try to use all of them. But I prefer not to argue about it because it never goes anywhere or achieve anything
[07:09:07] <jadew> theBear, what USB dongle is that?
[07:09:10] <jadew> and what OS?
[07:09:30] <theBear> megal0maniac, that has always been true, but i still get 'drawn' into arguments when uninformed and/or 'stupid' people make blatantly wrong claims of any kind
[07:09:31] * megal0maniac is not going to look :)
[07:09:51] <R0b0t1`> Oh man theBear I love to do that.
[07:10:05] <R0b0t1`> And then when I say something smart everyone is like "wtf?"
[07:10:20] <theBear> jadew, a err, enttec err, usbdmxPRO or something like that, basically ft23?? and a err, 74176? or so buffer, and linux and xp
[07:10:40] <jadew> theBear, so where is it working?
[07:10:46] <jadew> on xp or on linux?
[07:10:57] <theBear> R0b0t1, what ? you love to troll 'dyed blonde hair' style ?
[07:11:06] <jadew> also, what's the baudrate?
[07:11:32] <jadew> if it's nonstandard, I would guess it's not working on linux
[07:11:48] <R0b0t1`> theBear indeed! Also sometimes I am actually stupid.
[07:11:55] <jadew> because linux has issues setting the a CDC device's speed if it's not standard
[07:12:16] <theBear> jadew, oh, both now, always (as much as possible) in linux, but he had flashed the firmware for a SLIGHTLY different pcb/version of the device, which made some things 'not good' ... can't blame him, slightly autistic and tbh the list of firmware downloads is misleading, and the firmwares for the VERY similarly named other version are all 2.?? while the ones he SHOULD have used were 1.??
[07:12:21] <theBear> and 250kbps
[07:12:51] <jadew> interresting that it's working at 250
[07:13:00] <jadew> does ftdi have custom drivers for linux?
[07:13:08] <theBear> and by 'working' i meant i could reliable detect/talk to the ft23?? chip, and scope it (or more accurately connect some random earphones i found on this very desk within arms reach) to confirm operation
[07:14:08] <jadew> theBear, you could connect another serial device on the ftdi tx
[07:14:11] <R0b0t1`> lol.
[07:14:15] <jadew> and send data on the port yourself
[07:14:15] <theBear> i believe since about 2.6.23 ftdi drivers are open/community made and part of the standard kernel, i was just using standard 'mode' like that, there is a libdmx or similar which some software uses, tho i suspect with a ftdi device you can just setserial to all kinds of rates, but like i said, that wasn't the issue
[07:15:14] <jadew> when I hear serial and linux I remember the issues I had with my dongle
[07:15:22] <theBear> jadew, if i had another device, or a 5pin cannon -> db9 or parallel cable, WITHIN REACH, then yeah probably, but i had none of that, and i succesfully diagnosed, re-firmwared and confirmed windows driver detection/operation inside about 10 minutes without even leaving my chair
[07:16:08] <theBear> and as a bonus i was then able to take it to work thismorning to test both the small led lights and medium sized lighting desk that i had to fix thismorning :)
[07:17:13] <theBear> have i mentioned that just a few weeks back in fulltime repair-land, i've gotten REALLY good at repairs again, even ones where all you have is a couple os's, a usb cable, and a pair of earphones you musta picked up on a flight sometime
[07:18:06] <theBear> oh god ! i needs a drink !
[07:18:14] <theBear> </outburst>
[07:18:20] <jadew> you're the real macgyver
[07:18:40] <jadew> you can get out of any situation with a paperclip and some spit
[07:19:40] <theBear> heh, i have my moments :) you shoulda seen the look on my buddy and his missus face when i went to stay for a few days (other side of country these days) and hotwired the broken lid-switch on their washer in about 30 seconds with no tools <grin> that was a glorious day
[07:19:46] <jadew> have I bragged to you yet about my logic analyzer client?
[07:20:16] <theBear> i think not, but brag now, and when i get back from making a snack, i'll soak it all in :)
[07:20:17] <jadew> check this out: http://dumb.ro/files/first_samples.png
[07:20:24] <theBear> ooh you quick :)
[07:20:38] <theBear> oooh, very nice, what's the hardware involved ?
[07:20:45] <jadew> an open bench logic sniffer
[07:21:30] <jadew> the client is not ready yet, but it's close, been working on this for the past week
[07:24:29] <RikusW> megal0maniac: http://robotics.org.za/index.php?route=product/product&path=138_179&product_id=453
[07:38:35] <megal0maniac> RikusW: http://www.hobbytronics.co.za/p/365/logic-level-converter
[07:38:49] <megal0maniac> And R19 for postage, instead of R69 :)
[07:39:42] <megal0maniac> Will probably use the schematic as a reference, though. RS should deliver by the end of this week
[07:41:45] <RikusW> what did you order from RS ?
[07:42:13] <RikusW> hobbytronics seems to be PIC based....
[07:43:03] <megal0maniac> They've got lots of stuff. But more PIC stuff than any of the other places.
[07:43:12] <megal0maniac> I got 20x 2N7002
[08:02:03] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/spi_samples.png
[08:06:19] <OndraSterver> nice
[08:06:37] <jadew> thanks
[08:07:02] <OndraSterver> "Crushed by a Steamroller on My 53th Birthday"
[08:07:10] <OndraSterver> you have to love Robot Chicken episode names :D
[08:07:50] <jadew> I don't know that show
[08:07:57] <OndraSterver> ...
[08:08:17] <OndraSterver> whoops, 53rd
[08:08:22] <OndraSterver> for a while I thought they had a typo there
[08:08:25] <OndraSterver> it was just me
[08:09:50] <jadew> looks funny
[08:26:40] <OndraSterver> damnit
[08:26:43] <OndraSterver> atxmega128a1u
[08:26:49] <OndraSterver> Y U NO ANYWHERE IN STOCK
[08:28:47] <hetii> OndraSterver: http://www.seguro.pl/sklep/?zobacz=4997
[08:29:00] <hetii> 1063 in stock:)
[08:29:19] <OndraSterver> hmm pl
[08:29:20] <OndraSterver> not bad
[08:29:39] <OndraSterver> hetii, noo
[08:29:41] <OndraSterver> it is not A1U
[08:29:43] <OndraSterver> it is A1
[08:29:45] <OndraSterver> :P
[08:30:02] <hetii> whats different ?
[08:31:38] <OndraSterver> the -U
[08:32:37] <hetii> but i mean whats else...
[08:32:44] <OndraSterver> USB
[08:32:45] <OndraSterver> ..
[08:32:49] <hetii> aaa :)
[08:32:51] <OndraSterver> A1 = no USB controller
[08:32:57] <hetii> ok
[08:33:09] <OndraSterver> and all xboards have chips with integrated USB
[08:33:13] <OndraSterver> and I would like to keep it that way
[08:51:29] <OndraSterver> hmm they don't screw around at arduino - they run USB D+ and D- lines through two vias without thinking about anything
[08:56:22] <OndraSterver> hmm let's see, arduino version of xboard mini
[08:58:59] <Amadiro> Hrm, I'm preeeeetty sure USB dongles shouldn't heat up to 80°C just from plugging them in...
[08:59:17] <OndraSterver> lol
[08:59:37] <Landon> you mean you don't have a USB teapot?
[09:30:02] <Holism> C/C++ to Assembly visualizer. http://assembly.ynh.io/
[09:31:18] <Amadiro> Holism, wrong architecture
[09:31:34] <Amadiro> also, gcc/objdump does that for you out-of-the-box...
[09:31:48] <karlp> oh look, you built yet another objdump web wrapper
[09:33:12] <Holism> oh ok
[09:33:18] <Holism> nm, then
[09:54:32] <Amadiro> megal0maniac_afk, http://emacsrocks.com/e13.html, if you want to see something cool, btw.
[10:34:13] <Essobi> jadew: Added another wire.. can program/reset and read SPI from the avr natively now.
[10:50:48] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Ha! Nice. A website dedicated to emacs being awesome :P
[10:51:06] <megal0maniac> I want multiple mouse cursors :)
[11:24:56] <OndraSterver> Essobi, that was awesome :D
[11:25:00] <OndraSterver> whoops
[11:25:03] <OndraSterver> Amadiro, that was awesome
[11:25:04] <OndraSterver> :D
[11:27:07] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, emacs has a lot of awesome features, but yeah, that one is pretty nice
[11:47:59] <Essobi> I <3 emacs.
[11:57:02] <sabesto> bah, anyone messed with eclipse + beagleboard + windows?
[11:57:18] <sabesto> got it running barely in ubuntu
[11:59:13] <Essobi> nos ir
[11:59:22] <Essobi> I want a bboard..
[11:59:28] <Essobi> havn't found the cash for one.
[12:02:01] <Essobi> RikusW: What's up man?
[12:02:11] <Essobi> RikusW: Finally figured out WTF I was doing wrong with that SPI.
[12:03:01] <RikusW> hi Essobi
[12:03:08] <RikusW> so where did you mess it up ?
[12:03:15] <Essobi> RikusW: jadew pointed out I had to move the chip select from reboot to SS after programming...
[12:03:40] <RikusW> ah
[12:03:44] <Essobi> Ran another wire, and changed the avrdude output to use a different GPIO for the reboot. Works like a charm now.
[12:03:49] <RikusW> reset to ss ?
[12:04:13] <OndraSterver> I had once small issue on one of my projects
[12:04:13] <OndraSterver> I was using SPI
[12:04:18] <OndraSterver> but I tried using SPI before I changed the SS pin to OUTPUT
[12:04:22] <OndraSterver> and it was floating
[12:04:26] <Essobi> Eww.
[12:04:35] <OndraSterver> and when JTAG wasn't connected it was floating too close to 0
[12:04:38] <OndraSterver> so it set SPI to slave
[12:04:41] <OndraSterver> and the app got stuck :)
[12:04:46] <OndraSterver> took me 2 hours to figure it out
[12:04:55] <OndraSterver> since when I connected JTAG it suddenly worked :P
[12:04:55] <Essobi> Yea.. well that too... appearently when I program since I'm using gpio, it's leaving the lines in an unknown state to the linux SPI driver.
[12:05:09] <RikusW> another interesting thing occurs in master mode if SS is input and pulled low, the AVR changes to slave mode.....
[12:05:10] <Essobi> Reload the drivers after programming, and I'm using the same lines now. :D
[12:05:28] <RikusW> took me a while to figure out...
[12:05:34] <Essobi> RikusW: Oh, I'm using the AVR as a slave. RPI as master.
[12:05:39] <Essobi> :D
[12:06:07] <Essobi> Gives me a load more pins on the raspberry pi now... and they're cheap.
[12:06:56] <Essobi> And I have like 8 of them laying around.
[12:07:18] <RikusW> I found another bug, fungus under a wood floor, laid directly on cement without moisture proofing.... :S
[12:07:44] <Essobi> O_o
[12:07:56] <Essobi> That's bad.
[12:08:03] <RikusW> it caused me to pass out, especially after eating meat....
[12:08:19] <RikusW> moved into a different room, seems to be going much better
[12:08:28] <Essobi> Allergies? O_O
[12:08:43] <RikusW> probably, my IgE was like 433
[12:08:46] <RikusW> max is 100
[12:09:17] <Essobi> Jeez.
[12:09:30] <RikusW> and waking up was a pain, literally sometimes
[12:09:41] <RikusW> muscles all stiff all over :-/
[12:09:58] <Essobi> Get a demolition grade filter mask.
[12:10:14] <RikusW> where would I get that ?
[12:10:14] <Essobi> An outdoor sprayer, a bottle of bleach and some hot water.
[12:10:24] <Essobi> Good point. :|
[12:10:38] <RikusW> I think the floor will have to go
[12:10:44] <RikusW> its 2cm thick directly on concrete
[12:10:58] <RikusW> its little blocks in a pattern
[12:11:02] <RikusW> so easy to remove
[12:11:05] <Essobi> I just tored down a house in the back of my property.. was built directly wood on dirt.
[12:11:20] <RikusW> bad idea...
[12:11:21] <Essobi> *tore
[12:11:26] <Essobi> Yea. Stupid idea.
[12:11:41] <RikusW> did is smell like there was fungal growth ?
[12:12:07] <Essobi> Of course.
[12:12:13] <Essobi> Lots of dead black wood.
[12:12:19] <Essobi> bad shit
[12:12:28] <RikusW> uninhabitable then...
[12:12:32] <Essobi> I want a CEB machine.
[12:12:40] <RikusW> CEB ?
[12:12:48] <Essobi> I think the ceiling missing did that before the growth did. :D
[12:13:04] <Essobi> RikusW: Compressed Earth Block
[12:13:19] <Essobi> RikusW: This adobe meets rammed earth, meets brick machine.
[12:13:19] <RikusW> for making bricks ?
[12:13:22] <Essobi> :D
[12:13:33] <RikusW> or directly building into the wall ?
[12:13:44] <Essobi> google "CEB machine" if you for the bandwidth.
[12:13:49] <Essobi> *got
[12:14:04] <RikusW> there is something called a FinnBuilder marketed over here
[12:14:28] <Essobi> Well... you still lay a footer. Generally a trench drain with a block footer on it.
[12:14:28] <RikusW> its used to build solid concrete walls
[12:14:51] <Essobi> This is 10% cement and 90% dirt from building site.
[12:15:01] <Essobi> And a bit of water.
[12:16:25] <RikusW> so its like big bricks ?
[12:17:42] <RikusW> Essobi: have you googled FinnBuilder ?
[12:17:50] <RikusW> www.finnbuilder.co.za
[12:19:25] <Essobi> RikusW: Ah, a mold system. Yea, those are nice if you can get the concrete there.
[12:19:31] <Essobi> Or DIY.
[12:20:06] <Essobi> RikusW: You can also get a really low cost hand system going with 6-7 guys if labor is cheap there.
[12:20:15] <RikusW> the mold is moved immediately after packing the conrecte
[12:20:18] <RikusW> *concrete
[12:20:43] <Essobi> Oh neat.
[12:21:02] <RikusW> its mixed to be fairly dry
[12:21:21] <RikusW> so it can go much faster then bricks using only one machine
[12:21:25] <Essobi> Ah.
[12:21:31] <RikusW> its about 30cm high and 50cm long
[12:21:41] <Essobi> Interesting.
[12:21:42] <RikusW> with adjustable width
[12:21:46] <Essobi> I'll have to look that up.
[12:22:02] <RikusW> there is some demo vids too, don't know if its on the net
[12:22:26] <RikusW> google or youtube, you might get lucky
[12:22:55] <Essobi> yea, that sounds neat. I'll take a look at that.
[12:23:16] <RikusW> we have one, but haven't used it yet
[12:46:06] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac_afk, what is the "regular" place on arduino for SPI?
[12:46:14] <OndraSterver> because Leonardo doesn't use the SPI on pin10-13 :P
[12:46:16] <OndraSterver> http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/PinMapping32u4
[12:54:11] <Kre10s> whats sizeof(void *) on an 8bit avr?
[12:54:59] <RikusW> probably 16 bits
[12:55:17] <RikusW> or 24....
[12:55:29] <OndraSterver> dilemma... use UART in SPI mode as SPI on arduino-clone or use regular SPI?
[12:55:33] <OndraSterver> why UART in SPI mode: DMA
[12:55:37] <OndraSterver> why SPI: /SS
[12:56:43] <Kre10s> I need to load a void * out of pgm space, and am wondering what to use. readbyte()<<24|readbyte()<<16|readbyte()<<8|readbyte() etc..
[12:56:49] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, I think it has extra pin headers for SPI
[12:56:50] <karlp> meh, you end up doing /SS in software half the time anyway
[12:57:19] <OndraSterver> Amadiro, it does, but older ones had SPI on pins 10-13
[12:57:22] <OndraSterver> not mega2560
[12:57:28] <OndraSterver> but I want to keep it as compatible as possible
[12:57:31] <OndraSterver> err, not leonardo*
[12:58:36] <Amadiro> Disregard that, those are ICSP
[12:59:05] <OndraSterver> aye
[12:59:14] <OndraSterver> BUT
[12:59:29] <OndraSterver> on Arduino Leonardo's page:
[12:59:30] <OndraSterver> SPI: on the ICSP header. These pins support SPI communication using the SPI library. Note that the SPI pins are not connected to any of the digital I/O pins as they are on the Uno, They are only available on the ICSP connector. This means that if you have a shield that uses SPI, but does NOT have a 6-pin ICSP connector that connects to the Leonardo's 6-pin ICSP header, the shield will not work.
[12:59:40] <Amadiro> ah
[13:00:04] <Amadiro> so basically: "it's complicated"
[13:00:08] <OndraSterver> aye
[13:00:43] <OndraSterver> I am sure about two digital IOs - one UART from PE and one TWI from PE - those have otherwise only PWM on them, no other feature
[13:00:48] <OndraSterver> now what about the rest..
[13:01:01] <OndraSterver> plus the analog ones
[13:01:21] <OndraSterver> I have got only one real SPI available since the other one is taken over by USB
[13:02:11] <OndraSterver> any pin can be PWM
[13:02:17] <OndraSterver> any nibble can be any UART
[13:02:18] <OndraSterver> so.. yeah
[13:02:43] <OndraSterver> (that is for digital pins, analog pins don't have any PWM/UART/.. stuff)
[13:03:08] <OndraSterver> meh, regular SPI goes on the 10-13
[13:04:10] <OndraSterver> actually
[13:04:15] <OndraSterver> I can software-switch MOSI with SCK
[13:04:18] <RikusW> as always, design tradeoffs take time to figure out....
[13:04:18] <OndraSterver> and make it pin-compatible with UART
[13:04:24] <OndraSterver> NO NEED FOR TRADEOFF!
[13:04:30] <OndraSterver> just single bit swap in some IO register :)
[13:04:32] <RikusW> even better f:)
[13:04:35] <OndraSterver> beauty of xmega
[13:04:59] <OndraSterver> it took me a while to realize that when you do switch of SCK/MOSI it virtually means that PC5 becomes PC7 and vice-versa
[13:05:04] <OndraSterver> so you can switch UART that way too
[13:05:48] * OndraSterver <3s xmega
[13:06:22] <OndraSterver> I just use different pins for the remaining 4 analog pins though (arduino leonardo only)
[13:06:27] <OndraSterver> since they can not do PWM otherwise
[14:32:26] <OndraSterver> hmm
[14:32:32] <OndraSterver> where should I hook up the RESET
[14:32:35] <OndraSterver> from the ICSP header
[14:32:37] <OndraSterver> (ISP header)
[14:32:39] <OndraSterver> to the real RESET?
[14:32:40] <OndraSterver> or to /SS
[14:32:50] <OndraSterver> since xmega has now register for resetting the MCU
[15:06:21] <Duality> hi
[15:06:50] <Duality> what program do i use to compile a .asm file? avr-gcc ? avr-as ?
[15:10:01] <Duality> i tried with: (using atmega328p pu) avr-as -mmcu=atmega328 -o first.o first.asm
[15:10:30] <Duality> gives error: can't open m328Pdef.inc for reading: No such file or directory
[15:24:51] <Duality> ok got it compiles by adding #include <avr/io>
[15:25:21] <Duality> don't i need to specifie a device with .DEVICE ? if i do .DEVICE ATmega328P
[15:31:45] <Tom_itx> Duality, no that's part of io.h and what you put in your makefile
[15:31:47] <Tom_itx> mcu =
[15:32:25] <Duality> ah
[15:32:38] <Tom_itx> may be slightly different for asm
[15:32:41] <Tom_itx> just saw that
[15:34:05] <Duality> the asm file compiles with #include <avr/io.h> and without .DEVICE
[15:34:07] <Tom_itx> not your chip but a sample asm file: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/at90usb162/asm/at90usb162test.asm
[15:38:46] <Duality> thanks that helps a lot :)
[15:51:49] <megal0maniac_afk> Hi hi
[15:53:56] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Parcel tracking actually continued. Arrived in ZA yesterday :)
[15:55:08] <OndraSterver> nice
[15:55:09] <OndraSterver> that was fast
[15:55:52] <megal0maniac> Also, just checked the ethernet shield schematic
[15:55:57] <megal0maniac> It uses the ICSP header
[15:56:01] <megal0maniac> (my bad)
[15:57:07] <megal0maniac> Used to use digital pins, but they changed it in the newer design
[15:57:23] <megal0maniac> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-ethernet-shield-05-schematic.pdf
[15:58:45] <OndraSterver> yay for wiznet
[15:59:35] <OndraSterver> why haven't they still learned how to draw the schematics
[15:59:56] <megal0maniac> Because reasons
[16:00:19] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kEpq
[16:00:20] <OndraSterver> srsly
[16:00:24] <megal0maniac> I like saying that. It's strangely satisfying. Like I've solved the problem :)
[16:00:30] <OndraSterver> just ground the vss right at the SD card
[16:00:52] <OndraSterver> and use NAMES
[16:00:54] <OndraSterver> rather 100 wires
[16:00:57] <OndraSterver> that go to names :(
[16:01:07] <megal0maniac> Lol
[16:01:16] <OndraSterver> also all xboards in arduino size will feature microSD slot :P
[16:01:29] <megal0maniac> How's the layout going?
[16:01:38] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kEqf
[16:01:39] <OndraSterver> look to the left
[16:01:41] <OndraSterver> look to the right
[16:01:52] <OndraSterver> tomorrow I will finish silk screening
[16:02:08] <OndraSterver> left = xboard mini in *duino size
[16:02:15] <OndraSterver> notice the one extra analog pins
[16:02:19] <OndraSterver> one set of*
[16:02:34] <OndraSterver> with another 6 ADCs
[16:02:40] <OndraSterver> where two of them are DAC as well!
[16:03:06] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, are you actually following the arduino pin layout?
[16:03:11] <OndraSterver> aye
[16:03:14] <OndraSterver> compatibility
[16:03:27] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, boo.
[16:03:41] <OndraSterver> y
[16:03:46] <OndraSterver> there is already shitload of stuff for it
[16:03:54] <OndraSterver> much easier than to create your own standard
[16:04:02] <Amadiro> there already is a standard
[16:04:04] <OndraSterver> if only they didn't have the board 54mm high but rather 50mm high
[16:04:05] <OndraSterver> idiots
[16:04:05] <Amadiro> arduino just doesn't follow it
[16:04:08] <OndraSterver> yes?
[16:04:09] <OndraSterver> which one
[16:04:14] <OndraSterver> and does it have so many peripherals?
[16:04:17] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, standard pitch for breadboards and pin headers
[16:04:25] <OndraSterver> I have those already as well
[16:04:27] <megal0maniac> Yes but shield
[16:04:27] <OndraSterver> for mini and coco
[16:04:29] <Amadiro> but arduino had to throw in that extra half-pitch spacing on one side
[16:04:35] <Amadiro> but only on one side
[16:04:39] <OndraSterver> yes
[16:04:39] <Amadiro> which is totally retarded
[16:04:41] <OndraSterver> it is fucked up :)
[16:04:47] <megal0maniac> But shields
[16:04:48] <Amadiro> I've raged so hard over that
[16:04:51] <OndraSterver> haha
[16:04:57] <OndraSterver> also space wasting
[16:05:00] <OndraSterver> it could have been much smaller
[16:05:13] <megal0maniac> The mini, yes. Not the ultra :)
[16:05:14] <Amadiro> yeh, although, well, the arduino is pretty big and bulky anyway
[16:05:28] <OndraSterver> ultra - no
[16:05:30] <OndraSterver> mini - absolutely
[16:05:31] <OndraSterver> or leonardo
[16:05:34] <Amadiro> I think the arduino fio or mini or micro or whatever their smaller models are called don't follow their own spacing either for space reasons
[16:05:35] <OndraSterver> and all of the original arduinos
[16:05:41] <OndraSterver> lol
[16:05:44] <OndraSterver> I think they do
[16:06:18] <Amadiro> nah http://www.arduino.cc/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/arduino-nano.jpg
[16:06:58] <megal0maniac> I have that one
[16:07:03] <megal0maniac> I killed it
[16:07:20] <megal0maniac> And now it's on its way to RikusW to be unkilled :)
[16:08:23] <megal0maniac> Chinese knock-off, but damn near perfect. Only thing that isn't as good as the Uno is that the 3v3 comes from the FTDI chip instead of a dedicated vreg. And of course it uses the ftdi chip. But it's great otherwise
[16:08:29] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, killed? unkilled?
[16:08:35] * megal0maniac shrugs
[16:08:56] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, just get a teensy or teensy++ instead, looks the same, does the same (more, actually) and its cheaper
[16:08:58] <OndraSterver> oh
[16:09:01] <OndraSterver> yes, uno is breadboard
[16:09:11] <OndraSterver> Amadiro, he already has xboard coco :)
[16:09:13] <OndraSterver> on the way
[16:09:16] <megal0maniac> Broke fuses. Tried to rescue with HVPP, but couldn't take it out of circuit. So it wouldn't listen
[16:09:19] <OndraSterver> looks the same, does much more
[16:09:27] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, isn't that like much bigger than the teensy
[16:09:35] <OndraSterver> how big is teensy?
[16:09:42] <OndraSterver> I have got 26 pins on each side
[16:09:50] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, eh... check the website... it's smaller than the arduino nano, I believe
[16:09:56] <OndraSterver> oh
[16:09:57] <megal0maniac> I have Arduino Uno R3, Arduino Nano clone, Teensy 2, U2S and soon an xboard
[16:09:57] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, teensy got 10 or 12 pins on each side
[16:10:03] <megal0maniac> It is smaller than nano
[16:10:05] <OndraSterver> :o
[16:10:12] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, but your board might be smaller/as large as the teensy++
[16:10:16] <OndraSterver> so few GPIOs!
[16:10:32] <megal0maniac> But there's the Teensy,, :)
[16:10:34] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, it has GPIOs on the inside and rim as well, 26 or so in total, lemme check
[16:10:35] <OndraSterver> nah, teensy++ is still smaller
[16:10:36] <megal0maniac> ++
[16:10:46] <OndraSterver> http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/features.gif
[16:10:57] <megal0maniac> Teensy3 looks good, except few GPIOs again
[16:11:06] <megal0maniac> Features are great.
[16:11:11] <Amadiro> yeah, teensy has 25 GPIOs, teensy++ has 46
[16:12:10] <OndraSterver> I have got 6 ports, each 8 bits
[16:12:15] <megal0maniac> Realistically, you have 22 in a breadboard
[16:12:18] <OndraSterver> well, 4 ports *8 bits, one 6bits one and one 2bits one
[16:12:23] <megal0maniac> On the Teensy2
[16:12:48] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, thing is, even with something like the teensy I've hardly ever run out of GPIOs for most of my projects
[16:12:54] <OndraSterver> hmm
[16:12:57] <OndraSterver> parallel busses?
[16:13:07] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, I'd probably be perfectly fine for most of my projects with an xmega where all but 12 pins or so are NC... :P
[16:13:11] <OndraSterver> on Mini I have 6+8+2+2+8+2+4
[16:13:18] <OndraSterver> which is...
[16:13:33] <OndraSterver> 32
[16:14:47] <megal0maniac> The teensy is awesome because of software support. Other than that, it's just a simple breakout
[16:15:25] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, the ultra might be nice for OS development class
[16:15:31] <Amadiro> but the price is too high
[16:15:43] <OndraSterver> :)
[16:15:44] <megal0maniac> OS dev?
[16:15:44] <OndraSterver> it has been lowered
[16:15:44] <OndraSterver> by far
[16:15:45] <megal0maniac> 8-bit?
[16:15:49] <OndraSterver> 25€ for the base
[16:16:19] <OndraSterver> the issue is - Atmel doesn't seem to be supplying suppliers with a1u chips yet
[16:16:27] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, "the base"?
[16:16:42] <OndraSterver> yes, external memory has been moved to another board
[16:16:46] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, the xmegas are 16 bit, are they not
[16:16:50] <OndraSterver> originally I wanted 16MB SDRAM on the board
[16:16:57] <OndraSterver> 8bit core, 16bit peripherals
[16:16:59] <OndraSterver> well
[16:17:10] <OndraSterver> timers, ... are 16bit
[16:17:16] <OndraSterver> some 16bit instructions
[16:17:35] <Amadiro> oh well. I think the requirements for the OS classes here are that your chip needs to have an MMU or MPU, anyway
[16:17:59] <Amadiro> Not quite sure (I've never taken the class myself)
[16:20:48] <megal0maniac> Also, what is netsplit?
[16:21:10] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac_afk, when two servers on IRC disconnect from each other
[16:21:11] <OndraSterver> .
[16:21:12] <OndraSterver> afk
[16:22:05] <Amadiro> oh, I just noticed ARM now has 64 bit cores
[16:38:14] <OndraSterver> Amadiro, already finished silicons?
[16:38:17] <OndraSterver> cortex a16?
[16:42:22] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, uh, arm doesn't sell any silicone
[16:42:30] <OndraSterver> license.
[16:42:32] <OndraSterver> but still
[16:42:33] <Amadiro> yeah
[16:42:37] <OndraSterver> has anyone produced any sillicone?
[16:42:39] <OndraSterver> RTM
[16:42:42] <OndraSterver> not ES
[16:42:48] <Amadiro> dunno
[16:42:59] <Amadiro> wikipedia doesn't mention any, so probably not, but who knows
[16:50:10] <megal0maniac> Well that's not good...
[16:52:03] <megal0maniac> http://atinyhedgehog.za.net/Robert_Drive.mp3
[16:53:56] <Steffanx> Yes it is megal0maniac
[16:54:14] <megal0maniac> Oh?
[16:54:20] <Steffanx> Good for the trash bin :P
[16:54:25] <megal0maniac> Lol
[16:54:35] <megal0maniac> It isn't mine at least
[16:55:02] <megal0maniac> I didn't even turn it off. It spun down by itself :/
[16:55:43] <megal0maniac> Was asked if I could fix it. I'm not going to try. There's no more space in my freezer
[16:55:55] <Steffanx> There's a nice website with shoulds you can compare the sounds
[16:55:59] <Steffanx> *sounds
[16:56:28] <Steffanx> man, note to self: read what you wrote before you send it
[16:56:51] <OndraSterver> CLICK OF DEATH!
[16:57:18] <megal0maniac> 11 of them, interestingly
[16:57:27] <Steffanx> 11 ?!
[16:57:54] <megal0maniac> 11 clicks, not 11 drives :)
[16:58:12] <Steffanx> http://datacent.com/hard_drive_sounds.php listen and compare :P
[16:58:14] * megal0maniac thinks of RAID NAS box in lightning storm
[16:59:31] <Steffanx> "Maxtor desktop drive with stuck spindle playing futuristic cell phone melody." that one is nice :D
[17:00:33] <megal0maniac> The hell?
[17:00:43] <megal0maniac> They put piezos in hard drives??
[17:00:53] <Roklobsta> steve: is osmo trying to use the rt8xx in place of the e4k?
[17:01:05] <OndraSterver> !seen abcminiuser
[17:01:06] <tobbor> abcminiuser was last seen in #avr on Sep 22 08:00 2012
[17:01:09] <OndraSterver> hmmhmm
[17:01:12] <Roklobsta> shit wrong channel
[17:03:20] <megal0maniac> Steffanx: There's some horrible stuff on that page...
[17:07:49] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: "Made in Czech Republic"
[17:07:50] <megal0maniac> Nice :)
[17:08:18] <OndraSterver> hehe
[17:08:20] <OndraSterver> on Ultra
[17:08:23] <OndraSterver> and on future boards too
[17:08:28] <OndraSterver> all the other*
[17:08:35] <OndraSterver> also Made in the Czech Republic
[17:08:56] <OndraSterver> I am off
[17:09:01] <OndraSterver> tomorrow = shaking my butt!
[17:09:02] <OndraSterver> gn
[17:09:17] <Steffanx> :S
[17:09:35] <megal0maniac> Maybe I'll write it on mine with pen :)
[17:09:47] <megal0maniac> I'm off too. Goodnight
[17:29:33] <megal0maniac_afk> OSterver: If you successfully make the xboard mini in arduino form factor, and make a patch so that it works with Arduino, then I'd have to consider getting one, if even just to show people :)
[17:32:44] <Amadiro> megal0maniac_afk, do the arduino guys even accept contributions for 3rd party boards, or would you have to maintain your own fork...?
[17:36:19] <megal0maniac_afk> Amadiro: Depends. If you get your board to become part of the Arduino range, then support will be part of the official releases, like Gravitech, who made the Nano, and you get permission to use the Arduino name.
[17:36:38] <megal0maniac_afk> Otherwise, you maintain your own fork and keep your own name
[17:38:06] <megal0maniac_afk> If your board uses the same chip as one of the original boards, then it's easy. You might just have to change pin definitions, but that's one file. If it's a different chip, then it gets more complicated
[17:38:55] <megal0maniac_afk> Teensy is a brilliant example. Paul probably wrote a large portion of the Leonardo supporting code
[17:39:42] <Amadiro> megal0maniac_afk, I've only ever programmed the teensy in plain C
[17:39:59] <Amadiro> although I have programmed the chipkit uno32 (pic32mx chip) using their forked version of the arduino IDE
[17:41:01] <Amadiro> they probably had to modify a shitton of stuff there... but they don't seem to really keep up
[17:41:15] <megal0maniac> Ah. I'm talking about the patches for the main Arduino release.
[17:41:15] <Amadiro> their mpide version is still based on an arduino version of half a year ago or a year ago or so
[17:41:21] <Amadiro> yeah
[17:41:46] <Amadiro> well, it'd be nice if the arduino IDE abomination (for lack of a better word) would become more modular/flexible so that people could just give you some sort of plugin for their board
[17:42:15] <megal0maniac> Which I reckon is the best way to go about it, because you can provide everything down to core support with a folder in "My Documents"
[17:42:21] <megal0maniac> And it will usually survive Arduino version upgrades
[17:42:41] <megal0maniac> Without having to repeat the work of... well, extracting a .zip file
[17:43:16] <Amadiro> yeah, and less work for the authors who write the support for their boards
[17:43:34] <Amadiro> they also really need to clean up their libraries, the current state is somewhat shit and badly encapsulated/standarized... but oh well
[17:46:28] <megal0maniac> Teensyduino does it a bit differently, but the changes are quite significant
[17:47:30] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: Check out Teensyduino. I think you'll be impressed
[17:48:05] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, meh
[17:48:26] <Amadiro> I can just throw plain C code for the 32u4 on it perfectly fine, so why would I bother
[17:48:50] <megal0maniac> Because it's done really well :)
[17:49:18] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I'd still have to download the arduino IDE for that etc etc
[17:49:34] <megal0maniac> http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/teensyduino_sc1_mini.png
[17:49:52] <megal0maniac> That being my main reason for saying that it's great.
[17:50:18] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, yeah, I've used his keyboard/mouse libraries before (they're also just plain C at the core)
[17:54:58] <megal0maniac> I know. So have I, but it's clevery implemented in Arduino
[17:56:50] <Amadiro> megal0ma1iac, well, fine, I'll have a look at it
[17:58:00] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: The picture and example code are good enough, really. I just thought it was interesting
[18:00:00] <megal0maniac> In response to previous comment, Arduino is actually pretty flexible. The thing I said about extracting the .zip file is actually how it is, not how I wish it was :)
[18:00:30] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, well, still sounds somewhat inflexible to me
[18:00:36] <megal0maniac> How so?
[18:01:05] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I think you should be able to just drop plugins/architecture files/bootloaders/all that other crap you might need for a new board somewhere in your home directory in some form of "plugin dir" and then the IDE would read it on startup
[18:01:21] <megal0maniac> That's what it does...
[18:01:26] <Amadiro> oh, okay, nevermind then
[18:01:31] <megal0maniac> :)
[18:01:39] <Amadiro> so where does it look
[18:02:08] <megal0maniac> Well, on Windows, My Docs\Arduino\hardware
[18:03:41] <megal0maniac> Any folder within hardware can contain any combination of board, pin and programmer definitions, bootloaders and core support
[18:04:21] <megal0maniac> And in the IDE, it puts a seperator between Arduino hardware and the contributed stuff
[18:08:30] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, not bad.
[18:15:32] <megal0maniac> It works pretty well. Anyway, I'm off. G'night all