#avr | Logs for 2012-09-22

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[02:50:54] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: You started tackling those AVRs yet? :)
[02:51:01] <Richard_Cavell> lol
[02:51:05] <Richard_Cavell> no mate
[02:51:12] <Richard_Cavell> they're sitting right next to me
[02:51:20] <Richard_Cavell> At the moment I've been programming the Tendra C compiler
[02:51:28] <Richard_Cavell> and learning to use After Effects
[02:51:37] <Richard_Cavell> and I went on holiday to the Gold Coast
[02:51:40] <Richard_Cavell> Still sunburnt
[02:52:46] <megal0maniac> I suppose I'd put it on hold too, for a trip to the Gold Coast. Nicest beaches I've ever been to
[03:07:32] <Richard_Cavell> I want to tour every capital city in Australia this year
[03:16:09] <megal0maniac> I'd just like to go back to AU. Not too fussed about where. Queensland is nice
[03:27:35] <theos> hello
[03:27:36] <tobbor> theos! like, totally tell us about the project!
[03:32:12] <megal0maniac> ...?
[03:59:28] <Roklobsta> soooo. uh what's a good rtos for an avr?
[04:11:04] <GuShH> Roklobsta: http://www.ti.com/mcu/docs/mcusplash.tsp?contentId=128826&DCMP=53xx663x&HQS=msp430rtos-pr-lp
[04:11:27] <GuShH> list of rtos you might find for avr already.
[04:11:36] <GuShH> no I'm not going to search for you!
[04:12:00] <GuShH> I'm sure at least FreeRTOS is available.
[04:12:08] <GuShH> what are your requirements anyway
[04:12:15] <GuShH> your question is analogous to asking what's a good screwdriver
[04:29:27] <megal0maniac> Screwdrivers are great. Just not for everything
[04:30:31] <megal0maniac> Aw, no atmega support
[04:30:46] <GuShH> megal0maniac: well, there are many types for different uses.
[04:30:55] <GuShH> porting isn't too hard in most cases
[05:17:40] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... Where to start with rtos?
[05:17:46] <megal0maniac> Not keen to build from source
[05:39:15] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, which rtos?
[05:53:29] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: None in particular. I'm just keen to try it out, get my head around the principle of rtos on an uC. Was looking for something pre-compiled...
[05:54:35] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, I don't think you'll find something pre-compiled, most all RTOS I've heard of have some or other mechanism of modular compilation to reduce size
[05:54:50] <Amadiro> compilation and/or linking
[05:54:55] <Amadiro> but I haven't tried out that many, so
[05:55:32] <megal0maniac> I've discovered as much.. I might have to bite the bullet and compile something :P
[05:56:07] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, why is that "biting the bullet", you certainly have a compiler installed anyway, and it probably takes like 2 minutes...
[06:03:25] <megal0maniac> Well, I suppose mostly because I don't fully understand the principle of rtos. And there are no makefiles and I'm just getting confused
[06:03:43] <megal0maniac> I'm RingTFM but still :)
[06:12:39] <megal0maniac> Looks like I need to edit "port.h" and "portmacro.h" in order to get freertos working on something other than an atmega323
[06:12:48] <megal0maniac> (pretty obscure chip...)
[07:03:56] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: At work (It's 13h51), sort of learning avr asm
[07:05:09] <Richard_Cavell> cool
[07:05:10] <Richard_Cavell> 8-bit I take it?
[07:07:40] <megal0maniac> Yeah. Sort of going between "8-bit AVR instruction set" and "Beginners introduction to the assembly language of ATMEL-AVR-Microprocessors"
[07:08:14] <megal0maniac> They're working with ASM at university (albeit on freescale chip) so I'm trying to make sense of it
[07:08:39] <megal0maniac> I'm not actually a student, though, which is why I'm not really learning it there. I just go there on Fridays :)
[07:09:27] <RikusW> megal0maniac: each mcu's asm is unique, and instruction names will mostly differ, although there is many shared features
[07:10:05] <RikusW> once you've learnt asm for one mcu the next one should be much easier
[07:10:12] <Richard_Cavell> RikusW: That's right
[07:10:24] <Richard_Cavell> I learned 68k assembly language but AVR 8 is easy to pick up once I've learned that
[07:10:52] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: how much health problems can a moldy wooden floor cause ?
[07:11:05] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I noticed that when they started talking about LDA, but I'm picking up the general thought process behind writing asm
[07:11:08] <Richard_Cavell> there's a thing called aspergillus you should look up
[07:11:11] <RikusW> or should I ask that in ##medicine ?
[07:11:18] <Richard_Cavell> ##medicine is pretty dead
[07:11:27] <RikusW> seems so...
[07:11:29] <Richard_Cavell> wet wood can also attract termites
[07:11:39] <RikusW> no termites here
[07:11:46] <RikusW> at least not in the house
[07:12:03] <megal0maniac> Anyone here ever work with the freescale GT16?
[07:12:04] <RikusW> its little wooden blocks directly on the cement floor
[07:13:01] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: I have a rast of 16.7 for alternaria tenius
[07:13:07] <RikusW> it might be that too ?
[07:13:37] <Richard_Cavell> gee I never heard of that one
[07:13:45] <Richard_Cavell> where abouts are you in the world?
[07:14:06] <RikusW> guess we'll just remove the wood and pour in cement
[07:14:12] <RikusW> South Africa
[07:14:24] <megal0maniac> In the middle of nowhere :)
[07:14:31] <megal0maniac> (sort of)
[07:15:00] <Richard_Cavell> gee I dunno anything about that fungus
[07:15:24] <Richard_Cavell> RikusW: Can I ask you about South Africa?
[07:15:30] <RikusW> yes
[07:15:39] * megal0maniac listens
[07:15:39] <Richard_Cavell> Most of the white people I've met from South Africa are incredibly racist. Is that fair to say?
[07:16:12] <RikusW> there is many who is liberal too
[07:16:23] <specing> are*
[07:16:37] * specing grammarslaps RikusW
[07:16:47] <RikusW> *are :-P
[07:17:17] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: but you haven't experience working with some of the black people here
[07:17:27] <megal0maniac> Our government is racist, under the guise of "recifying the injustices of our past" in my opinion\
[07:17:32] <RikusW> if you live here for a year you might become racist too :-P
[07:17:39] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: where are you in the world?
[07:17:47] <megal0maniac> South Africa :)
[07:18:09] <Richard_Cavell> So what's wrong with the black population?
[07:18:18] <RikusW> their attitude
[07:18:27] <megal0maniac> Sense of entitlement
[07:18:27] <RikusW> they think we owe them everything
[07:18:33] <megal0maniac> (Often, but not always)
[07:18:54] <megal0maniac> And lazy. Again, not always, but often. Due to the sense of entitlement
[07:19:03] <Richard_Cavell> you mean they insist on welfare after apartheid?
[07:19:17] <RikusW> and we have a big problem with stock theft, which is usually done by blacks...
[07:19:33] <megal0maniac> That's what they say, I suppose, but in reality it isn't about that anymore
[07:19:56] <RikusW> megal0maniac: lazy, of course, but some is much worse than others, and that goes for white people too....
[07:20:08] <megal0maniac> Problem is as soon as they admit that, then things have to change, and people don't like change
[07:20:34] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'm talking specifically about those who, for example, don't bother working because the government will subsidise
[07:20:35] <Richard_Cavell> Would you be willing to regard black people as equal if they worked as hard as a white person?
[07:20:43] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: Of course
[07:20:45] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: they want very high salaries for very little work
[07:20:47] <megal0maniac> Many of them do
[07:21:24] <Steffanx> Who doesn't? i'm lazy too!
[07:21:28] <OndraSterver> bloody SDRAM
[07:21:28] <Richard_Cavell> I find the same attitude towards Aborigines here. There's a general feeling that Aborigines are lazy drunks, and indeed many of them are. But if you find an Aborigine who wants to work, get an education, etc, you'll find white people more than happy to employ them etc
[07:21:32] <OndraSterver> drafting the connections.. http://clip2net.com/s/2kb5e
[07:22:04] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: the major of Bloemfontein gets like ZAR 3 500 000 per year, (about 350 000 Euro)
[07:22:35] <RikusW> and there is like ZAR 3 000 000 000 missing that was supposed to be for repairing roads....
[07:22:45] <RikusW> there is extreme corruption around here
[07:22:58] <RikusW> and the roads is in a very bad state in some places
[07:23:05] <OndraSterver> <RikusW> there is extreme corruption around here
[07:23:05] <OndraSterver> <RikusW> and the roads is in a very bad state in some places
[07:23:06] <OndraSterver> same here
[07:23:15] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: I think it's a very similar thing. Except your government isn't made up of 95% Aborigines :)
[07:23:34] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: I thought white people were still effectively in control. Has that changed?
[07:24:06] <RikusW> what do you mean by control ?
[07:24:21] <RikusW> the government is mostly black I'd say
[07:25:30] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: some people might consider me racist for some of my views, but I do treat people of other races with respect
[07:25:56] <RikusW> if they behave themselves I have no problem with them
[07:25:57] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Ethnic_groups_of_South_Africa%2C_2000-10_stats.png
[07:26:27] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I was just outside chatting to the security guard about the Tsotsis in the townships that he has to chase off with dogs :)
[07:26:55] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: I think people should be employed on merits not skin colour
[07:27:10] <megal0maniac> RikusW: But that doesn't happen here
[07:27:15] <megal0maniac> Even in education
[07:27:22] <megal0maniac> Which I think is ridiculous
[07:27:40] <RikusW> its reversed apartheid now :S
[07:27:44] <megal0maniac> Entry requirements vary with race. It's FAR more difficult for a white person to get into university
[07:28:04] <Richard_Cavell> What's South African's attitudes towards Jewish people?
[07:28:31] <megal0maniac> And I have black friends who are equally pissed off about it, because it's as if it's assumed that they're less intelligent
[07:28:43] <RikusW> the major churches consider them the "chosen" race...
[07:28:47] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: No problem there, that I know of
[07:29:26] <RikusW> afaik there isn't discrimination agains't Jews here
[07:29:57] <Richard_Cavell> interesting
[07:30:06] <Richard_Cavell> I'm not Jewish but I've been having issues with them lately
[07:30:28] <RikusW> although the right wing guys don't always feel so positive about Jews...
[07:30:39] <RikusW> (putting it mildly...)
[07:30:50] <RikusW> why >?
[07:31:15] <Richard_Cavell> long story
[07:31:23] <Richard_Cavell> I'm a qualified doctor but I can't practice medicine and I blame Jews for it
[07:31:58] <RikusW> because of big business ?
[07:34:40] <Richard_Cavell> nope
[07:35:16] <Richard_Cavell> There was a conspiracy to kill jewish medical students and I helped defend the medical students. Now those in the conspiracy have ruined my medical career. I've asked those same Jews for help and they won't help me.
[07:35:41] <impulse> wtf
[07:35:48] <impulse> why kill med students?
[07:36:47] <impulse> Richard_Cavell: which fucked up country is this in?
[07:37:40] <RikusW> sounds bad...
[07:38:14] <Richard_Cavell> Australia
[07:38:26] <Richard_Cavell> The dean of the medical school was female, and she was once raped by a Jewish medical student
[07:38:34] <Richard_Cavell> She put together a plan to kill the whole lot of them
[07:38:37] <Richard_Cavell> I'm quite serious
[07:39:05] <RikusW> thats a bit extreme for revenge....
[07:39:12] <impulse> why not just kill the one that raped her?
[07:39:30] <RikusW> that dean should come live in SA.....
[07:39:50] <megal0maniac> impulse: Emotional beings (humans) don't work that way.
[07:40:33] <megal0maniac> Richard_Cavell: What is your current day-job?
[07:40:35] * specing checks the channel name
[07:40:45] <Richard_Cavell> megal0maniac: I have post traumatic stress disorder and I'm on a disability pension
[07:40:45] <RikusW> Richard_Cavell: another thing, here in SA the police are pretty much ineffective...
[07:41:00] <specing> Is there anyone here who actually makes money with AVRs IRL?
[07:41:01] <specing> :O
[07:41:15] <impulse> i don't make money
[07:41:43] <RikusW> Once I've sold all my U2S boards I will have made some money
[07:42:48] <specing> Im tempted about buying one of those TI stellaris launchpads
[07:44:22] <OndraSterver> specing, I do
[07:44:24] <OndraSterver> XBoards!
[07:44:35] <OndraSterver> but I have so far paid more for parts than sold :( :D
[07:45:21] <impulse> xboards?
[07:46:03] <OndraSterver> aye
[07:46:07] <OndraSterver> http://myxboard.net
[07:46:46] <specing> should I get a stellaris launchpad?
[07:46:52] <OndraSterver> no
[07:46:55] <specing> Why not?
[07:46:58] <OndraSterver> you should get xboard coco
[07:47:04] <specing> 100DMIPS, 8 UARTS
[07:47:07] <specing> :D
[07:47:17] <OndraSterver> because mine plugs into breadboard
[07:47:20] <OndraSterver> and has atmel studio
[07:47:27] <OndraSterver> ARM other than atmel's has still yet to have usable IDE really
[07:47:33] <specing> hell I could make a PCI card with an ARM
[07:47:42] <specing> OndraSterver: Im not an IDE person
[07:47:45] <impulse> seems legit
[07:47:45] <OndraSterver> oh
[07:47:54] <OndraSterver> enjoy not having an IDE
[07:47:56] <OndraSterver> I will enjoy using one
[07:47:59] <specing> especially if said IDE is closedsource
[07:48:06] <OndraSterver> I don't care about open or closed source
[07:48:10] <OndraSterver> it brings me no extra joy
[07:48:11] <specing> vim + gcc FTW!
[07:48:18] <OndraSterver> (lol)
[07:48:22] <impulse> yea what's wrong with using vim?
[07:48:29] <OndraSterver> :wq
[07:48:39] <specing> :!nuke OndraSterver
[07:48:56] <OndraSterver> use your vim + gcc
[07:49:03] <OndraSterver> I will be using my atmel studio + gcc
[07:49:18] <impulse> atmel studio = souped up notepad
[07:49:23] * RikusW use both IDE and VIM
[07:49:46] <OndraSterver> impulse, AS4
[07:49:49] <OndraSterver> but we are now at AS6
[07:50:17] <impulse> j/k i've never even tried it
[07:51:11] <megal0maniac> :/
[07:51:44] <OndraSterver> let's see if I can fit xboard ultra into arduino's size
[07:51:53] <megal0maniac> Lol
[07:51:58] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: 4 layer pcb?
[07:52:33] <OndraSterver> 2
[07:52:50] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kblf
[07:52:53] <OndraSterver> drafting the SDRAM
[07:53:21] <megal0maniac> SO MANy LINES!
[07:53:42] <OndraSterver> yep
[07:53:46] <OndraSterver> 12 address lines, 8 data lines
[07:53:48] <OndraSterver> and some control lines
[07:55:06] <OndraSterver> with 4 layered boards the price goes really high for the board :/
[07:56:19] <rue_house> start moving parts...
[07:56:24] <megal0maniac> Yeah, it does... Teensy 3 is 4 layer, but look at how small it is
[07:57:23] <OndraSterver> 4 layers won't help me much really :)
[07:57:29] <OndraSterver> all the SDRAM routing goes below the chip itself mostly
[07:58:27] <megal0maniac> I'm off. Have a good weekend :) And long-weekend to you, Rikus1
[07:58:58] <OndraSterver> bb
[08:02:25] <Rikus1> Abb
[08:02:29] <Rikus1> bb
[08:57:17] <abcminiuser> 'lo all
[09:10:38] <OndraSterver> lo
[09:10:58] <OndraSterver> abcminiuser, may I say that the documentation about EBI lacks some parts? :)
[09:10:59] <OndraSterver> on xmegas
[09:11:13] <abcminiuser> OndraSterver, indeedy
[09:11:21] <abcminiuser> Only the bigass chips have it tho anyway
[09:11:25] <OndraSterver> yes
[09:11:27] <OndraSterver> a1 series
[09:11:31] <OndraSterver> a1(u)*
[09:11:45] <OndraSterver> but! there is no SDRAM 4PORT description
[09:12:35] <OndraSterver> also, no info whether I can NOT use chip selects whatsoever and use the rest 4pins for something else (SPI/UART) on the PortE/F
[09:12:41] <OndraSterver> I already wrote on support about that :)
[09:13:23] <abcminiuser> IIRC there's no 4-port suppored on shipping chips
[09:13:31] <OndraSterver> huh?
[09:13:39] <abcminiuser> Lemme check
[09:13:43] <OndraSterver> that would rather suck
[09:13:52] <abcminiuser> IIRC only 3 port is available, but perhaps I'm mis-remembering
[09:13:54] <OndraSterver> because nobody really does 4bit chips
[09:14:30] <OndraSterver> I would have to piss away half of the RAM already... and I am already "paying extra" for the 128Mbit 8bit over 256Mbit 16bit which is even cheaper
[09:14:50] <OndraSterver> (It is not possible to use it after thinking about it - I am not going to explain it here again, but no, it is not possible)
[09:15:00] <abcminiuser> Hrm A1 datasheet says it has 4 port, my mistake
[09:15:12] <OndraSterver> the PINOUT description doesn't talk about it though
[09:15:31] <OndraSterver> and I would much rather not use any chip selects and use the extra 4 pins for something else (namely SD card)
[09:17:06] <abcminiuser> Actually, the new AU manual says both
[09:17:12] <OndraSterver> new?
[09:17:20] <abcminiuser> It mentions 3-port only in the overview but gives 4-port info in the description
[09:17:21] <OndraSterver> well it does
[09:17:24] <OndraSterver> yes
[09:17:43] <abcminiuser> IIRC the 4-port was specced for the master design, but never put into silicon
[09:17:53] <abcminiuser> So I'm not sure that any shipping parts can do 4-port
[09:18:12] <OndraSterver> but there is no PORT0/1/2/3 info in the xmega a1u datasheet itself so I am only guessing right now what is the pinout really
[09:18:41] <OndraSterver> also I am 100% sure that there is new line of chips waiting - because it talks about PortL
[09:18:44] <OndraSterver> which is not on any xmega parts
[09:18:49] <OndraSterver> :P
[09:19:18] <OndraSterver> I wanted to use big ass SDRAM because it is much cheaper than regular sized SRAM
[09:19:36] <abcminiuser> "Yable 33-7.
[09:19:36] <abcminiuser> Port H - alternate functions."
[09:19:41] <abcminiuser> * "Table 33-7.
[09:19:41] <abcminiuser> Port H - alternate functions."
[09:19:47] <OndraSterver> yes
[09:19:52] <OndraSterver> I found it later on
[09:19:58] <OndraSterver> that it is in register EBIOUT
[09:20:04] <OndraSterver> in IO section rather in EBI section
[09:20:06] <abcminiuser> 100% sure, really?
[09:20:13] <OndraSterver> wait
[09:20:42] <OndraSterver> yes
[09:20:47] <OndraSterver> I see there only SDRAM 3P
[09:20:49] <OndraSterver> not SDRAM 4P
[09:21:07] <OndraSterver> then there are those two notes
[09:21:51] <abcminiuser> The A/AU/etc master manuals are specced on the master design capabilities on each family
[09:22:05] <abcminiuser> But that doesn't mean all features are ever put into silicon
[09:22:25] <OndraSterver> yes
[09:22:27] <abcminiuser> The subfamily manuals show what features are in what chips
[09:22:39] <OndraSterver> but xmega128a1u's manual:
[09:22:40] <OndraSterver> – 4- or 8-bit SDRAM with 4-port EBI configuration
[09:22:46] <OndraSterver> aka 4port EBI exists there
[09:22:50] <abcminiuser> That's probably a typo
[09:22:54] <OndraSterver> DAMN
[09:22:56] <OndraSterver> :( :(
[09:22:58] <OndraSterver> I am sad panda now
[09:23:10] <abcminiuser> Submit a support request and we can ask the designers
[09:23:22] <abcminiuser> But I'm *semi* positive there's no 4-port silicon
[09:23:29] <abcminiuser> Not 100% sure, but fairly sure
[09:24:14] <OndraSterver> abcminiuser, BUT when the note at portH says
[09:24:15] <OndraSterver> A17-A23 can optionally be moved to Port E or F when EBI configured in 4PORT mode.
[09:24:22] <OndraSterver> it means that on this chip 4port should be available
[09:24:35] <abcminiuser> Well, submit a support request and we can find out for sure
[09:24:38] <OndraSterver> k
[09:24:41] <OndraSterver> thanks .)
[09:24:57] <OndraSterver> it would be real bummer
[09:25:34] <OndraSterver> I would have to either piss away half of the 128Mbit expensive SDRAM and have 8MB or try finding 4bit SDRAM... which is impossible nowadays, it is all 16bit
[09:28:39] <specing> lol, stellaris EEPROM has built-in wear leveling!
[09:32:48] <OndraSterver> hmmm if I were to switch to SRAM, I would probably go for two 4Mbit, each about 2.9€
[09:32:59] <OndraSterver> and now... 2 ALEs or 1 ALE?
[09:33:21] <OndraSterver> more pins and a bit slower? :P
[09:38:02] <specing> OndraSterver: stellaris has 32K SRAM :D
[09:38:18] <OndraSterver> :)
[10:21:46] <OndraSterver> lovely, one has to use 2 ALEs for >64kB SRAM :(
[10:23:47] <OndraSterver> abcminiuser_, I do wonder, if you have ALEs at EBI for SRAM, do they update their value even when the value is the same? As in, when you do not cross the 8 address bits boundary, does it reload the values to each ALE? I can't find it anywhere in the datasheet :)
[10:24:03] <abcminiuser_> Haven't a clue :(
[10:24:13] <OndraSterver> mkay
[10:24:16] <OndraSterver> thanks anyway
[10:24:20] <OndraSterver> would be nice addition really
[10:24:23] <OndraSterver> since it runs at clkper2
[10:24:53] <OndraSterver> hmm 2x512kB SRAM or 16MB SDRAM + piss away half of it... That's the question!
[10:25:11] <OndraSterver> the SDRAM would be cheaper actually
[10:25:24] <OndraSterver> but eats power
[10:31:40] <OndraSterver> what a dilemma!
[10:31:55] <Corwin> go get some cookies
[10:34:29] <OndraSterver> hmm the SRAM is MUCH faster in reading
[10:35:17] <OndraSterver> 7 cycles for read, 8 for write (SRAM with 2 ALEs) vs 9 cycles for write and 13 cycles for read (SDRAM)
[10:38:12] <MrTrick> ... is it just me, or is ASF very confusing to figure out
[10:38:28] <OndraSterver> it's just you :D
[10:38:34] <MrTrick> :-P
[10:38:44] <OndraSterver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9UFzNEC62E
[10:38:45] <OndraSterver> there
[10:38:50] <OndraSterver> OO Mike has new vid!
[10:39:02] * MrTrick can't figure out how to tell AVRStudio No, this is a 'user board', not an STK600 or any of their example boards.
[10:43:34] <abcminiuser_> MrTrick, errr... "User Board Template"?
[10:44:18] <abcminiuser_> MrTrick, I'm a dev for it, so if you have questions now's the time to ask them...
[10:47:23] <MrTrick> ah, so the reason I wasn't seeing it was because I went 'New Project' - 'GCC C executable project'.
[10:47:42] <abcminiuser_> That's what you can use if you don't want ASF at all
[10:48:11] <MrTrick> So, for an atmega project, which board do I use?
[10:48:24] <abcminiuser_> ATMEGA isn't supported by ASF
[10:48:29] <abcminiuser_> So, new GCC project
[10:48:59] <MrTrick> eh?
[10:49:11] <MrTrick> I'm pretty sure it is...
[10:49:22] <abcminiuser_> MrTrick, I write it, it's not supported
[10:49:30] <abcminiuser_> Other than a few cursory modules
[10:49:36] <MrTrick> Not questioning your credentials... ^_^
[10:49:59] <abcminiuser_> IIRC only ADC and perhaps one other module is supported at the moment
[10:50:02] <MrTrick> http://asf.atmel.com/docs/3.1.3/index.html <-- for instance, has 'megaAVR' as the first in the list.
[10:50:17] <abcminiuser_> ASF is targeted at XMEGA, UC3 and SAM3/SAM4
[10:50:31] <abcminiuser_> Yep, it's supported at the base level but take a look at the available modules for it
[10:50:41] <MrTrick> It did seem a bit sparse. ^_^
[10:50:43] <abcminiuser_> Infrastructure is there, the rest isn't
[10:50:55] <MrTrick> So would you recommend that I use the bits of ASF that I can? Or just abandon for <____________>?
[10:51:01] <abcminiuser_> Abandon
[10:51:10] <abcminiuser_> There isn't enough support for it to be useful
[10:52:23] <MrTrick> Last time I did any AVR development was 2009, and there didn't seem to be much of an AVR standard library. (just lots of half-complete or buggy ones) Are things any better now?
[10:52:29] <abcminiuser_> Most people just roll their own for MEGA/TINY
[10:52:30] <abcminiuser_> There's too many per-device differences to make a nice framework
[10:52:33] <MrTrick> yeah, fair enough. Wheee, spec sheet reading time.
[10:52:51] <abcminiuser_> Have you tried the XMEGAs?
[10:52:59] <abcminiuser_> They're all uniform and much more powerful
[10:53:17] <OndraSterver> people don't know enough about xmegas in my opinion. They are much more powerful and cheaper even
[10:53:39] <MrTrick> it doesn't really make sense for my use case. I don't even need a MEGA for this, it's only that I need a 32khz async clock.
[10:54:04] <abcminiuser_> From a watch crystal?
[10:54:44] <MrTrick> yep. IIRC there was only *one* avr tiny that had the capability... and I'm probably better off using a dirt-common atmega.
[11:10:34] <MrTrick> thanks for the headsup, abcminiuser__. I think I'll sleep on it. (it being 2am, after all)
[11:39:28] <Kevin`> yeah, xmega is NICE to work with
[11:46:50] <OndraSterver> old ISA bus was 5V signals, right?
[11:46:55] <OndraSterver> would it work with 3V signals as well? :P
[11:49:00] <specing> NICE, stellaris pins are 5V tolerant!
[11:49:20] <specing> and I could do full PCI with it :)
[11:49:41] <specing> wait
[11:49:47] <specing> PCMCIA/CARDBUS!
[11:51:45] <OndraSterver> ..
[11:52:11] <OndraSterver> I see what are you trying to do
[12:05:18] <OndraSterver> specing, tell me how would you connect directly the card and directly work with it pls!
[12:05:28] <specing> I have no idea
[12:05:31] <OndraSterver> heh
[12:05:32] <specing> but its CHEAP
[12:05:45] <OndraSterver> how much is the chip alone?
[12:05:46] <specing> HAS ONBOARD OPENOCD-SUPPORTED JTAG
[12:05:51] <specing> OndraSterver: 4.5E :D
[12:05:54] <OndraSterver> ;)
[12:06:03] <OndraSterver> how many DACs does it have?
[12:06:03] <specing> has an onboard FTDI2something
[12:06:09] <specing> OndraSterver: none afaik
[12:06:12] <OndraSterver> ..
[12:06:18] <specing> but iTS 100DMIPS!
[12:06:28] <OndraSterver> what is 100 DMPIS good for when you have 32kB of RAM
[12:06:31] <specing> who knows how much I could overclock it!
[12:06:34] <OndraSterver> DMIPS*
[12:06:48] <specing> Why would anyone need more than 32K of ram?
[12:06:59] <OndraSterver> because data caching when reading from external storages
[12:07:03] <Tom_itx> OndraSterver is greedy
[12:07:06] <OndraSterver> yep
[12:07:31] <specing> no need for caching if I can process the data in time!
[12:07:33] <OndraSterver> Doctor, I need a cure for greediness. But I need of the pills A LOT A LOT A LOT.
[12:07:36] <specing> 100 DMIPS DUDE
[12:07:44] <OndraSterver> you need to read - use - read - use - read - use
[12:07:49] <OndraSterver> I just read - use - use - use - use
[12:08:05] <OndraSterver> :P
[12:08:09] <specing> Also 16 byte FIFOs on 8 UARTS!
[12:08:18] <OndraSterver> I can read it from SD CARD via DMA to the RAM
[12:08:33] <specing> so can this one
[12:08:41] <specing> and it has FIFO buffers!
[12:09:02] <OndraSterver> but once you read it you have no place to store the next data nymore :P
[12:09:14] <specing> and you have?
[12:09:30] <specing> oh right, 256Mbit ram
[12:09:40] <OndraSterver> 1MB actually
[12:09:50] <specing> still, I don't plan on using them as data storage devices
[12:10:05] <specing> they might be used for a logic analyzer
[12:10:12] <OndraSterver> but what about the children!
[12:10:16] <specing> in which case the data will just be relayed
[12:10:39] <specing> or high-speed UART packet network switches
[12:11:20] <specing> in both cases Im going to need LOADS of DMIPS
[12:11:30] <OndraSterver> ;)
[12:11:33] <OndraSterver> then go with ARM
[12:12:19] <specing> I wilL!
[12:12:33] <OndraSterver> THEN DO IT!
[12:12:35] <OndraSterver> and stop moaning about it
[12:12:55] <Steffanx> "Yes dad!"
[12:13:01] <specing> JAWOHL!
[12:13:13] <specing> but still 100DMIPS!
[12:13:26] <specing> and openocd JTAG!
[12:13:44] <OndraSterver> what is openocd good for when you can not use atmel studio
[12:15:04] <Corwin> sorry for interrupting your really meaninful discussion.... but may i ask what chip/board are you talking about?
[12:15:23] <OndraSterver> new launchpad from TI
[12:15:26] <OndraSterver> with ARM
[12:20:02] <specing> lol what do I need atmel studio for?
[12:20:07] <specing> its an IDE ffs
[12:20:12] <OndraSterver> exactly
[12:20:21] <specing> here, let me hold the thrash can for you
[12:21:01] <OndraSterver> I am sorry but whenever somebody says "I don't need an IDE" I just laugh
[12:21:23] <specing> Corwin: http://www.ti.com/product/lm4f120h5qr this device
[12:24:44] <Corwin> nice
[12:25:21] <specing> the devkit is $5 and the actual device is 4.5E in small amounts
[12:26:53] <Corwin> hmm... i can imagine $5 for devkit and $40 for shipping
[12:27:01] <OndraSterver> TI has free shipping
[12:27:02] <specing> free international shipping
[12:32:51] * Corwin wonders how hard it would be to emulate CompactFlash card using arm chip
[12:33:38] <OndraSterver> not sure how about CF but SD cards do have ARM chip inside
[12:34:09] <Corwin> but afaik SDIO is not publicly documented
[12:34:33] <Tom_itx> if you pay it is
[12:34:41] <Tom_itx> no pay no play
[12:34:52] <Corwin> me dont wanna pay
[13:06:00] <jadew> hey w|zzy, are you there?
[13:11:03] <specing> btw, OndraSterver
[13:11:06] <specing> and Corwin
[13:11:14] <specing> that stellaris has a FPU!
[13:11:17] <OndraSterver> <some ARM stellaris>
[13:11:17] <OndraSterver> yes
[13:11:19] <OndraSterver> we know
[13:11:20] <OndraSterver> it is arm4f
[13:11:22] <OndraSterver> err
[13:11:23] <specing> :D
[13:11:24] <OndraSterver> cortex m4f
[13:11:34] <specing> and a memory protection unit
[13:11:43] <OndraSterver> for those 32kB? :P
[13:12:41] <jadew> "<Corwin> but afaik SDIO is not publicly documented"
[13:12:54] <jadew> does that refer to the ARM chip documentation?
[13:13:39] <jadew> like.. they are capable, but you have to pay for the docs?
[14:40:48] <Essobi> Hmm... So what's a good protocol to run a 8mhz 328p 3.3v to communicate with linux/gpio?
[14:41:09] <Essobi> Not having much luck getting SPI to work other then programming.
[14:41:22] <specing> UART?
[14:41:25] <AR_> pwm
[14:41:33] <jadew> why is spi not working?
[14:42:04] <Essobi> Not sure... need to scope it but I don't have one and I'm being lazy hauling all this gear to the nearest hacker space.
[14:42:19] <AR_> buy a scope
[14:42:22] <Essobi> specing: was trying to avoid the uart, but may just do that.
[14:42:28] <specing> well
[14:42:33] <specing> there is I2C too
[14:42:46] <AR_> decode serial yourself
[14:42:48] <specing> you can snatch I2C from the VGA/DVI/HDMI connector
[14:42:50] <AR_> from gpio
[14:43:07] <AR_> multiplex serial io
[14:43:08] <jadew> spi should work fine and serial is harder to decode than spi or i2c
[14:43:14] <AR_> single pin
[14:43:21] <Essobi> AR_: Hmm...A softserial gpio for linux? Perhaps.
[14:49:02] <OndraSterver> ugh, I am not sure if I will manage to break out all the 24 address and 8 data bits...
[14:49:12] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kfHD
[14:49:23] <OndraSterver> (draft)
[14:49:58] <AR_> need another layer
[14:53:57] <OndraSterver> yep
[14:54:00] <OndraSterver> but... like I said
[14:54:04] <OndraSterver> 4 layers gets awfuly expensive
[14:59:19] <specing> OndraSterver: there is one solution
[14:59:35] <OndraSterver> yes?
[14:59:40] <OndraSterver> can you directly interface SRAM into Stellaris?
[14:59:41] <Essobi> jadew: I'm programming my 328p with a raspberry pi. It works fine to program.. can't seem to get the soft linux spi driver and the bare 328p to work thou.
[14:59:43] <OndraSterver> the one
[14:59:49] <OndraSterver> on the launchpad.
[15:00:19] <jadew> Essobi, programming probably works by bitbanging the spi protocol
[15:00:32] <specing> OndraSterver: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
[15:00:42] <jadew> you need to make sure the driver is properly configured
[15:00:52] <OndraSterver> specing, ?
[15:03:29] <specing> OndraSterver: spaghetty wiring ;P
[15:03:40] <specing> as in ... flying wires!
[15:04:11] <OndraSterver> oh
[15:04:18] <OndraSterver> I thought you tried implying that I am spaghetti monster :D
[15:05:48] <specing> that too
[15:06:02] <specing> though not the original one
[15:08:04] <Essobi> jadew: it is... i looked it up. which made sense I should be able to communicate over the same lines.
[15:08:38] <jadew> Essobi, in which direction?
[15:08:58] <jadew> I mean, which device is the master?
[15:09:53] <jadew> if it's the linux, you can use the same pins, but you need to remove the slave select line from reset on the mcu and move it to CS
[15:10:21] <jadew> on the slave (the MCU) CS should be set as input
[15:13:34] <jadew> *SS not CS
[15:13:52] <Tom_itx> same diff really
[15:14:07] <jadew> does CS stand for something?
[15:14:16] <jadew> chip select!
[15:14:21] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[15:14:31] <Tom_itx> so SS is pretty much the same thing
[15:14:31] <jadew> I knew it sounds right
[15:14:32] <Essobi> jadew: rpi was the master
[15:14:52] <Essobi> jadew: oh.. so..
[15:15:08] <Essobi> jadew: If I used linux at the slave... that'd work with the same wiring?
[15:15:11] <Essobi> *as
[15:15:28] <jadew> when programming the programmer, instead of pulling the slave select pin low, it pulls the reset
[15:15:45] <jadew> so if you're trying to communicate with your device, in the same configuration, you'll basically reset it
[15:16:12] <jadew> *when programming , the programmer, etc
[15:16:48] <jadew> what I'm saying is that one wire should be moved
[15:16:58] <Essobi> jadew: Mmm.. Oh.. Haha. I get it.
[15:16:58] <jadew> from the reset pin to on the mcu, to the CS pin
[15:17:54] <jadew> and I think it's better to use the linux as the master
[15:17:59] <Essobi> I wondered WTF is appeared dead. I was trying to debug the slave on the avr side buy toggling a pin on the rec interrupt firing and saw ... nothing.
[15:18:07] <jadew> the avr has hardware spi, while the linux uses software spi
[15:18:17] <jadew> it's easier to transmit than to receive
[15:18:30] <Essobi> jadew: basically I want to use the AVR as a gpio expander and maybe do some analog.
[15:18:37] <jadew> I see
[15:18:43] <jadew> so slave :)
[15:18:48] <Essobi> Roger that.
[15:18:53] <Essobi> thank you
[15:18:57] <jadew> np
[15:19:17] * Essobi looks up the 328p datasheet
[15:29:34] <Essobi> jadew: haha, hoyl fuck it's working. Thank you.
[15:29:42] <jadew> np :)
[15:30:40] <Tom_itx> he's not around right now
[15:30:45] <Tom_itx> !seen capnkernel
[15:30:46] <tobbor> CapnKernel was last seen in #avr on Sep 22 05:56 2012
[15:31:01] <Tom_itx> anybody know if he's back in china yet?
[15:41:42] <OndraSterver> don't think so
[15:42:53] <OndraSterver> anybody has a 4layer cam/drc for eagle?
[15:43:10] <OndraSterver> 2 layers won't do it if I want to be able to break out the address + data bus :(
[15:43:30] <OndraSterver> and keep it reasonable sized
[15:43:53] <jadew> what are you trying to do?
[15:44:05] <jadew> like.. the end project
[15:44:10] <OndraSterver> xboard coco
[15:44:29] <OndraSterver> = xmega128a1u + 512kB SRAM + break out the rest of the pins for possible extension of memory space
[15:44:32] <OndraSterver> + breakout all the pins
[15:44:44] <jadew> I see
[15:44:48] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kgib
[15:44:55] <OndraSterver> I am pretty sure I won't be able to break out all the pins from this :(
[15:44:59] <jadew> yeah, I saw that
[15:45:08] <jadew> is that a buffer there?
[15:45:10] <jadew> the big chip?
[15:45:15] <OndraSterver> define big chip
[15:45:22] <OndraSterver> the one on the left = xmega, on the right = 512kB SRAM
[15:45:23] <jadew> the one on the right
[15:45:24] <OndraSterver> in the middle = two buffers
[15:45:37] <jadew> ah, I see
[15:45:51] <jadew> didn't scroll the image all the way back
[15:46:34] <jadew> are going to etch it yourself? :P
[15:46:44] <OndraSterver> no
[15:48:03] <OndraSterver> I can't do 0.5mm :P
[15:48:08] <OndraSterver> maybe if I would REALLY try a lot
[15:48:11] <OndraSterver> I could do 0.5mm
[15:48:14] <jadew> you have to route all those pins?
[15:48:19] <OndraSterver> aye
[15:48:23] <jadew> damn
[15:48:28] <OndraSterver> 24 address bits (the SRAM uses 20 only) + 8 data bits
[15:48:36] <OndraSterver> I want to break them out obviously
[15:48:40] <OndraSterver> because one could hook up ISA card
[15:48:55] <OndraSterver> + I would add 5v -> 3v3 translator on the input since ISA is 5V signals
[15:50:01] <jadew> where can you find ISA cards nowdays?
[15:50:08] <OndraSterver> ebay mostly
[15:50:11] <jadew> go for PCI Express :P
[15:50:11] <OndraSterver> but I have a big box of them
[15:50:15] <OndraSterver> heh
[15:50:15] <OndraSterver> e
[15:50:15] <jadew> fewer pins
[15:50:17] <OndraSterver> it is serial alright
[15:50:20] <OndraSterver> but it is damn fast
[15:50:30] <OndraSterver> one could do differential lines in hardware on xmega actually
[15:50:37] <OndraSterver> (tx)
[15:50:48] <OndraSterver> just tie two pins together and invert the other one
[15:51:14] <jadew> what's a differential line?
[15:51:20] <OndraSterver> same as on USB
[15:51:23] <OndraSterver> one line is high
[15:51:25] <OndraSterver> the other is low
[15:51:26] <OndraSterver> and vice-versa
[15:51:27] <jadew> ah
[15:51:42] <OndraSterver> not sure which transmission is PCIe using, but USB is using JK states
[15:51:55] <OndraSterver> where one is "the lines have changed" and the other one is "the lines have not changed"
[15:51:58] <OndraSterver> (aka 1 vs 0)
[15:52:47] <jadew> haven't looked into how usb works
[16:00:06] <OndraSterver> why are vias so big? :(
[16:07:25] <Tom_itx> use smaller ones
[16:08:19] <OndraSterver> I am not sure if CapnKernel can do those
[16:08:20] <OndraSterver> or iTead
[16:08:23] <OndraSterver> I am already doing the smallest ones
[16:08:46] <Tom_itx> oh
[16:08:47] <OndraSterver> and it would be probably cheaper to have 4layer @ itead than to get it somewhere where they can do smaller vias
[16:09:17] <OndraSterver> I am afraid that 4 layer will have to be done :(
[16:11:43] <OndraSterver> wtf, with iTead's DRC even the 0.5mm TQFP is already saying error about clearance between pins :P
[16:11:56] <OndraSterver> by picom
[16:12:02] <Tom_itx> yeah that happens
[16:12:26] <OndraSterver> 6mil ain't enough? :o
[16:12:33] <OndraSterver> but 0.5mm pitch QFN works just fine
[16:14:32] <OndraSterver> ah TQFP has 0.35mm width, QFN has 0.3mm
[16:15:22] <OndraSterver> datasheet says 0.17-0.27mm for the TQFP
[16:15:29] <OndraSterver> *change all the pads!*
[16:19:45] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2kgBP
[16:19:54] <OndraSterver> the yellow marked ones is not possible to break out :(
[16:20:08] <OndraSterver> Tom_itx, btw, CapnKernel can do still boards even from ozieland
[16:20:26] <Tom_itx> i'm not looking for boards, rather parts
[16:20:29] <OndraSterver> ah
[16:20:31] <OndraSterver> he does only reels :)
[16:20:35] <OndraSterver> which I am interested in as well
[16:20:39] <Tom_itx> that's fine
[16:20:46] <OndraSterver> also... I remember that you or somebody asked about burried vias... can he do those?
[16:20:54] <Tom_itx> he must like to fish alot
[16:20:57] <OndraSterver> burried or/and blind
[16:21:18] <Tom_itx> those are expensive
[16:21:21] <Tom_itx> avoid them
[16:21:25] <OndraSterver> mkay
[16:21:28] <OndraSterver> I know that iTead doesn't do them
[16:21:29] <Tom_itx> special process
[16:21:38] <OndraSterver> also iTead doesn't do coloured 4layered boards :(
[16:22:04] <Tom_itx> did you price GP?
[16:22:09] <OndraSterver> GP?
[16:22:18] <Tom_itx> gold phoenix
[16:22:24] <OndraSterver> nope
[16:22:48] <OndraSterver> do they have some calculator online?
[16:22:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.goldphoenixpcb.com/singlepage.php?tg=specialprice
[16:23:14] <Tom_itx> shane will send you a quote
[16:24:00] <OndraSterver> hmm international (other than USA) orders are through fedex
[16:24:44] <OndraSterver> huh $280
[16:25:00] <OndraSterver> 480cm squared
[16:25:16] <OndraSterver> that is like.. 20*24cm
[16:25:40] <OndraSterver> I think that iTead would still be much cheaper... no funky colours, but meh
[16:25:48] <OndraSterver> and I think they could do those if you mail them
[16:29:12] <OndraSterver> it starts at $9.9/board at itead, at over $25/board at goldphoenixpcb
[16:29:17] <OndraSterver> (same params)
[16:29:46] <OndraSterver> but $9.9 is ridiculously a lot, since green 2layers are only $2.5/board :(
[16:30:11] <OndraSterver> two boards - master + EBI extension board would be nice idea thoguh
[16:30:13] <OndraSterver> though*
[16:30:34] <OndraSterver> if people wouldn't want EBI and would prefer much more pins - they could use the pins
[16:39:33] <OndraSterver> so, have you guys done 4layered boards?
[16:39:38] <OndraSterver> or still 2 layers was enough?
[16:47:50] <Tom_itx> 2z enuf fer me
[16:51:04] <OndraSterver> hmm
[16:51:07] <OndraSterver> bloody parallel busses
[16:51:08] <OndraSterver> abc!
[16:51:15] <OndraSterver> why can't they implement SERIAL SRAMs? :P
[16:51:16] <OndraSterver> for EBI
[16:51:37] <Casper> probably too slow
[16:51:42] <OndraSterver> yeah
[16:51:45] <OndraSterver> much slower
[16:51:48] <OndraSterver> but much less pins
[16:52:07] <Casper> you would need 10x the rated speed
[16:52:15] <Casper> plus you would need to add a protocol
[16:52:30] <OndraSterver> the SRAMs have already defined "protocol" really
[16:52:33] <OndraSterver> just as SPI EEPROMs
[16:52:35] <OndraSterver> and flashes
[16:52:37] <Casper> so really, you would need like 30-50 times the speed
[16:53:06] <Casper> parallel is simple, set the address and read...
[16:53:18] <Casper> a serial one would be painfully slow
[16:53:30] <OndraSterver> for long term data storage it is okay enough
[16:53:35] <Casper> or the data bus way too fast
[16:53:42] <Casper> yeah
[17:19:09] <megal0maniac> Corwin: You know you can still connect to the SD card in SPI mode, right? It's slower, but you don't _have_ to have SDIO
[17:21:57] <OndraSterver> but SDIO is something "more than SD"
[17:22:13] <OndraSterver> and even regular "4 parallel lines access" to SD card is open documented
[17:22:17] <OndraSterver> SDIO is not I think
[17:22:26] <OndraSterver> usually wifi cards in phones are hooked on SDIO interface
[17:22:29] <OndraSterver> don't ask me why - no idea
[17:24:38] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... I just knew that SDIO is the bees knees but you can't have it.
[17:24:53] <megal0maniac> But you can still use SPI
[17:25:59] <megal0maniac> "there are two ways to interface with SD cards - SPI mode and SDIO mode. SDIO mode is faster, but is more complex and as far as we can tell, requires signing non-disclosure documents. For that reason, you will likely never encounter SDIO mode interface code. Instead, every SD card has a 'lower speed' SPI mode that is easy for any microcontroller to use"
[17:26:23] <megal0maniac> From http://www.ladyada.net/products/microsd/
[17:26:36] <megal0maniac> That is the source of my knowledge :)
[17:28:30] <Roklobsta> surely avr will be busy enough trying to drive spi mode
[17:28:34] <Roklobsta> let alone sdio
[17:28:35] <megal0maniac> From the spec, it looks as though there's SPI, 1bit and 4bit modes. SPI and 1bit are mandatory
[17:28:47] <megal0maniac> Roklobsta: Not xmega :P
[17:28:51] <Roklobsta> oh ok
[17:28:55] <Roklobsta> dma yada yada
[17:29:10] <Roklobsta> atmel should just drop atmega and push xmega
[17:30:34] <OndraSterver> yep
[17:30:45] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, hmm I thought that those 1bit and 4bit modes are called SD modes, not SDIO..
[17:30:52] <OndraSterver> anyway, I have SDIO tied with networking mostly
[17:31:25] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, if you want to use SD card with DMA, you will have to use UART in SPI mode
[17:31:32] <OndraSterver> SPI does not support DMA in master mode :P
[17:31:50] <megal0maniac> "The 4-bit SD mode provides the highest data transfer possible, up to 100 Mb/sec."
[17:32:00] <OndraSterver> yep
[17:32:08] <megal0maniac> However, that text is under a subsection of "SDIO card modes"
[17:32:08] <OndraSterver> interesting that I can do over that just fine with SD cards
[17:32:24] <OndraSterver> aka 25MB/s sequential reads zero problems
[17:34:53] <megal0maniac> I reckon atmega still has a place in the market. atxmega would often be overkill.
[17:36:03] <specing> How bout 4-bit MCUs?
[17:37:00] <OndraSterver> well if xmega would exist in "tiny" version
[17:37:09] <OndraSterver> and some 32pin version/24pin versions
[17:37:13] <OndraSterver> there is no reason to have mega :)
[17:37:34] <OndraSterver> xmega starts at 44 pins
[17:37:40] <OndraSterver> continues to 64 and ends at 100 pins
[17:41:11] <megal0maniac> Only 100pins? Thought there were more...
[17:41:15] <OndraSterver> nope
[17:41:21] <OndraSterver> all AVRs end at 100
[17:41:25] <OndraSterver> either in TQFP or in BGA
[17:41:31] <OndraSterver> no QFN 100 pins btw
[17:41:34] * megal0maniac likes 8pin uCs :)
[17:41:34] <OndraSterver> for simple reason
[17:41:37] <OndraSterver> hehe
[17:41:47] <OndraSterver> there is almost every single time some routing below the chip
[17:41:55] <OndraSterver> so QFN would have no sense since the middle is solderable
[17:42:42] <megal0maniac> That makes much sense
[17:44:59] <megal0maniac> I'm not actually sure what I'll do with my xboard... Peripherals will probably be the nicest part.
[17:46:08] <megal0maniac> Does the "8-bit AVR Instruction Set" apply to the atxmega256a3u?
[18:03:48] <Vutral> eh
[18:03:53] <Vutral> logical high is vcc/2 ?
[18:03:55] <Vutral> or whut
[18:04:03] <Vutral> atmega328p
[18:04:04] <Vutral> i cant find it
[18:04:31] <Tom_itx> electrical specs
[18:04:33] <Tom_itx> section
[18:04:56] <Vutral> doc8271 which page ?
[18:05:22] <specing> megal0maniac: yes
[18:05:30] <Vutral> eh 4.2 volt
[18:05:32] <Vutral> too much
[18:05:53] <Tom_itx> should be closer to 3v
[18:05:57] <Tom_itx> at 5
[18:07:47] <Vutral> well
[18:07:52] <Vutral> the datasheet says its 4.2 volt
[18:08:06] <Vutral> minimum
[18:08:10] <Vutral> at 5 volt vcc
[18:08:23] <Vutral> i would need a level translator then
[18:08:45] <Vutral> or i could try current limiting mhm but no idea what the programmer can take
[18:10:22] <Vutral> 3 volt would be nice ^^
[18:10:29] <Vutral> for my cmosses high starts somewhere at 2 volt at 5 volt
[18:10:30] <Vutral> lol
[18:26:30] <Richard_Cavell> Good morning everyone!
[18:26:59] <Casper> hello ya
[18:27:16] <Richard_Cavell> I wonder what I shall study today
[18:27:42] <Casper> SMPS!
[18:28:01] <Casper> synchronous rectification buck-boost and also synchronous rectification sepic
[18:32:22] <Casper> Richard_Cavell: isn't that a great suggestion? :D
[18:32:30] <Richard_Cavell> No
[18:32:39] <Richard_Cavell> It doesn't follow on from what I've been studying so far
[18:32:52] <Vutral> lalalal
[18:33:11] <Vutral> smps sado maso power supply
[18:33:14] <Vutral> *g*
[18:35:03] <Casper> Vutral: with current limiting
[18:35:10] <Casper> and variable voltage
[18:35:54] <Vutral> yeah
[18:36:08] <Vutral> you think i can build one ?
[18:36:39] <Vutral> mhm
[18:36:45] <Vutral> might look cute
[18:37:01] <Vutral> avr controlled TENS with a high c lithium battery
[18:37:03] <Vutral> lol
[18:38:25] <Casper> I need to do some smps, but sadly, I didn't got time :(
[18:38:36] <Vutral> mhm year
[18:38:38] <Casper> I need to make a buck one, and buck-boost or sepic one
[18:38:39] <Vutral> 86% efficiency
[18:38:45] <Vutral> but it sucks if you got first a linear regulator
[18:38:46] <Vutral> and then the smps
[18:38:58] <Vutral> i want less than 1mV ripple
[18:39:00] <Vutral> ^^
[18:39:26] <Casper> 19V laptop psu, down to 12V SLA... so need input current limiting
[18:39:38] <Vutral> mhm ?
[18:39:39] <Casper> then a 10-16V to 12V
[18:39:44] <Vutral> current limiting is just voltage control
[18:39:48] <Casper> at 5A or more
[18:39:54] <Vutral> ^^
[18:40:03] <Vutral> you do currentsensing
[18:40:06] <Vutral> it isnt so difficult
[18:40:06] <Casper> the 10-16 to 12V is the issue
[18:40:13] <Vutral> well you can do a feedback loop
[18:40:30] <Vutral> drive a mosfet or transistor with a opamp which does the current sense
[18:40:44] <Vutral> well these mixed convertes
[18:40:46] <Vutral> are only switiching between dfiferent modes
[18:41:07] <Vutral> for 10 volt you boost to 20 volt or so then
[18:41:27] <Vutral> no idea havrent calculated the efficiency
[18:41:54] <Vutral> i had a look at buck-boost regulators which can turn the limit/boost stuff off while voltage matches
[18:42:11] <Vutral> but even these converters can fail so dont forget the diodes :P
[18:42:32] <Vutral> i suggest you adding a 12 protection tvs diode
[18:45:08] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, yes
[18:45:16] <OndraSterver> xmega has *all* the instructions there
[18:45:22] <OndraSterver> tinies don't have some long jumps etc
[18:45:32] <OndraSterver> megas don't have LAC/LAS/LAX/.. instructions
[18:45:34] <OndraSterver> and others
[18:45:39] <OndraSterver> but xmegas have all of them I think
[18:45:47] <Vutral> mhm
[18:45:47] <OndraSterver> and yes, peripherals are awesome
[18:45:51] <OndraSterver> DMA, DAC, fast dual ADC
[18:45:56] <Vutral> well id prefer an arm
[18:45:57] <Vutral> over an xmega
[18:45:58] <OndraSterver> "too much" PWMs
[18:46:02] <OndraSterver> Vutral, so get an ARM
[18:46:16] <Vutral> are there xmegas in dip format ?
[18:46:24] <OndraSterver> mines are
[18:46:27] <Vutral> cool
[18:46:30] <OndraSterver> also with already USB connector and two debug LEDs!
[18:46:31] <Vutral> didnt know that
[18:46:36] <OndraSterver> and PDI/JTAG connectors :p
[18:46:38] <OndraSterver> http://myxboard.net
[18:46:40] <Vutral> lol
[18:47:57] <OndraSterver> I have got a "chicken and egg" problem. I want to take down some stuff from the shelves so I can put stuff there but in order to take stuff down from it I need to put somewhere else the stuff that is before them
[18:48:40] <OndraSterver> mm my home made breadboard scope probes!
[18:51:52] <Vutral> mhm
[18:52:04] <Vutral> OndraSterver: ?
[18:52:16] <OndraSterver> hmmm
[18:52:18] <OndraSterver> what?
[18:53:06] <Vutral> chicken egg problem ?
[18:53:23] <Vutral> you mean gullivers travels ?
[18:53:24] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:53:24] <Vutral> *g*
[18:53:26] <OndraSterver> no
[18:53:35] <Vutral> where do you open your egg *g*
[18:53:36] <Vutral> lol
[18:53:40] <OndraSterver> in order to move thing A to place B you need to move thing A to place B
[18:53:43] <Vutral> i dont get a chicken egg problem
[18:53:47] <OndraSterver> nvm then
[18:53:52] <Vutral> nono
[18:53:54] <Vutral> you go over place c
[18:53:54] <OndraSterver> you want ARM on #avr channel anyway
[18:53:55] <Vutral> ^^
[18:54:01] <Vutral> its like in sorting algorithms
[18:54:08] <Vutral> you got a temporary variable
[18:54:12] <Vutral> in a register or so
[18:54:17] <Vutral> you know quicksort/mergesort etc. ?
[18:54:21] <Vutral> thats how you do it
[18:54:22] <OndraSterver> you don't need second variable to switch two numbers :P
[18:54:42] <Vutral> you need a register
[18:54:43] <Vutral> ^^
[18:54:48] <Vutral> ok a = 3
[18:54:50] <Vutral> b = 4
[18:54:57] <OndraSterver> a*=b
[18:54:59] <Vutral> so a = b and b = a
[18:55:01] <OndraSterver> b=a/b
[18:55:09] <Vutral> ok do that with a pointer ?
[18:55:14] <OndraSterver> there
[18:55:16] <Vutral> ^^
[18:55:17] <OndraSterver> I just did it
[18:55:38] <Vutral> lol
[18:55:59] <Vutral> char x = 255; char y = 254;
[18:56:01] <Vutral> do it ?
[18:56:09] <Vutral> lol
[18:56:11] <OndraSterver> still works just same
[18:56:18] <OndraSterver> but on AVR it will eat up R0 and R1 :P
[18:56:20] <OndraSterver> to MUL
[18:56:22] <OndraSterver> and no hardware dividwe
[18:56:23] <OndraSterver> divide
[18:56:29] <Vutral> yeah you see
[18:56:33] <Vutral> it uses a register
[18:56:34] <Vutral> always
[18:56:35] <Vutral> ^^
[18:56:46] <Vutral> like on your shelve
[18:56:52] <OndraSterver> on x86 no
[18:56:59] <Vutral> lol ?
[18:57:05] <Vutral> where does it cache the result ?
[18:57:06] <OndraSterver> mov ax, 254
[18:57:11] <OndraSterver> mov bx, 255
[18:57:15] <OndraSterver> mul ax, bx
[18:57:18] <OndraSterver> div bx, ax
[18:57:30] <Vutral> still you need a storage
[18:57:31] <OndraSterver> hmm
[18:57:33] <Vutral> even if you do it that way
[18:57:34] <OndraSterver> on ARM then
[18:57:38] <Vutral> you need storage for the additional bits
[18:57:39] <Vutral> ^^
[18:57:39] <OndraSterver> mov r3, 254
[18:57:43] <OndraSterver> mov r4 255
[18:57:50] <OndraSterver> mul r3, r3, r4
[18:57:57] <OndraSterver> div r4, r3, r4
[18:58:06] <OndraSterver> (or the other way around, not in the mood to thing)
[18:58:07] <OndraSterver> think
[18:58:12] <OndraSterver> I AM CLEANING MY ROOM
[18:58:19] <Vutral> good luck ^^
[18:58:31] <Vutral> you should make a xboard with a microchip 2 buck 24bit sigma delta adc
[18:58:33] <Vutral> :P
[18:58:36] <Vutral> i would buy one lol
[18:58:57] <OndraSterver> eh
[19:00:23] <Vutral> well i prefer the analog devices ones but they are way more expensive
[19:00:27] <Vutral> no idea ^^
[19:01:22] <OndraSterver> also mouser does not offer any ADI parts
[19:01:26] <OndraSterver> nor Altera
[19:01:41] <Vutral> yeah i buy the adi at farnell
[19:02:00] <OndraSterver> but at what prices
[19:02:03] <Vutral> if you got enough money for a hundred you can buy at adi directly lol
[19:02:07] <Vutral> that smuch cheaper i guess
[19:02:19] <Vutral> 8 euro a 24bit ad7714
[19:02:24] <Vutral> as smd i think
[19:02:36] <Vutral> the microchip only costs 2 euro
[19:02:47] <Vutral> but the specs of the ad7714 or ad7718 etc. read better
[19:03:16] <Vutral> 2 euro a single piece
[19:03:21] <Vutral> i guess you get discount if you buy 100 or so
[19:03:26] <Vutral> should be much cheaper ^^
[19:03:53] <Vutral> and even then you need some good chokes for the microchip i think
[19:04:00] <Vutral> taiko yuden or so
[19:04:19] <Vutral> not very expensive but you can get some clean power even thought you use usb
[19:18:31] <OndraSterver> meh, moved two old computer chassis to "going to scrap yard" basement
[19:18:34] <OndraSterver> enough for today!
[19:28:28] <Vutral> scrap ?
[19:29:26] <OndraSterver> aye
[19:29:27] <OndraSterver> old stuff
[19:29:35] <OndraSterver> put it to sell if somebody wants it but meh
[19:29:50] <OndraSterver> I have got one here already
[19:31:00] <Vutral> what stuff
[19:31:03] <Vutral> looo
[19:31:11] <OndraSterver> <OndraSterver> meh, moved two old computer chassis to "going to scrap yard" basement
[19:31:13] <OndraSterver> ..
[19:31:18] <Vutral> sucks
[19:31:24] <Vutral> if the cases arent made out of platinum
[19:31:26] <Vutral> or so
[19:31:29] <Vutral> i am not intrested
[19:31:31] <OndraSterver> ..
[19:31:33] <OndraSterver> obviously they are not
[19:31:42] <OndraSterver> classic consumer cheap stuff
[19:31:45] <Vutral> i am searching for stainless steels
[19:31:46] <Vutral> lol
[19:31:50] <Vutral> for my project
[19:31:56] <Vutral> yeah sucks
[19:32:01] <OndraSterver> I am searching for platinum so I can sell it
[19:32:04] <Vutral> 20 years ago they were a bit better sometimes
[19:32:15] <OndraSterver> also I am searching for money
[19:32:17] <Vutral> yeah i need plates of platinum
[19:32:17] <OndraSterver> so I don't have to sell anything
[19:32:22] <Vutral> :/
[19:32:26] <Vutral> you have your xboards
[19:32:28] <Vutral> to sell
[19:32:35] <OndraSterver> this is all 7 - 12 years old
[19:32:36] <Vutral> they are just too generic lol
[19:39:25] <OndraSterver> I blame arduino
[19:39:30] <OndraSterver> for creating crappy and huge board :P
[19:39:37] <OndraSterver> uselessly huge board!
[19:39:40] <Vutral> mhm ?
[19:39:49] <Vutral> loooooool
[19:39:55] <Vutral> hey its cool if you want to mount it
[19:39:56] <Vutral> with screws
[19:40:03] <Vutral> but its really a bit big
[19:40:10] <Vutral> but i saw others you had useless mount holes
[19:40:16] <Vutral> because there were smds very near to them
[19:40:16] <Vutral> lol
[19:40:32] <OndraSterver> heh
[19:40:59] <OndraSterver> oh well, at least I will have enough space for switchmode PSU
[19:41:05] <Vutral> lol
[19:41:12] <Vutral> my switchmode psu is so big :P
[19:41:21] <Vutral> lol ^^
[19:41:28] <Vutral> and i still got a linear regulator behinde it
[19:41:34] <Vutral> because the ripple is scary
[19:42:00] <Vutral> i mean usually you could try synchronizing on it
[19:42:08] <Vutral> but that got other downsides
[19:42:18] <OndraSterver> at 1.6MHz with few mA draw I am not scared about ripple
[19:42:34] <Vutral> eh well
[19:42:45] <Vutral> i wonder if i can find some circuit
[19:42:49] <Vutral> to synch on the ripple
[19:43:03] <Vutral> need a zero crossing detection to trigger my adc :P
[19:43:11] <Vutral> or something like that *g*
[19:44:04] <Vutral> well or abuse a second adc port with a high pass and subtract it from the other :P
[19:47:07] <OndraSterver> does any arduino shield actually use the "ISP" connector for regular SPI?
[19:47:20] <OndraSterver> I don't know if I should hook on that SPI or UART in SPI mode - SPI does not support DMA in master mode, UART in SPI mode does
[19:47:24] <OndraSterver> but it requires a bit more init
[19:49:06] <OndraSterver> meh, UART it is
[19:58:41] <Tom_itx> CapnKernel, still huntin parts for ppl?
[20:00:21] <RoyOnWheels> hi
[20:05:37] <OndraSterver> huhm, xmega a1 series has in total 10 gnd pins and 10 power pins
[20:05:40] <OndraSterver> while old mega had only 7+6
[20:05:51] <OndraSterver> er, +5
[20:05:52] <OndraSterver> 6+5
[20:06:01] <OndraSterver> it has two more whole ports!
[20:06:23] <Tom_itx> more ports to drive, more power pins required
[20:06:35] <OndraSterver> mega has less power pins but more ports
[20:06:44] <OndraSterver> but you are limited to much less output power
[20:07:23] <RoyOnWheels> CapnKernel: I'm look for theses http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/cartridge-heater-with-thermocouple.html
[20:07:57] * Tom_itx thumps CapnKernel in the head to wake him up
[20:09:26] <Tom_itx> RoyOnWheels, how long are those?
[20:09:48] <RoyOnWheels> too long
[20:10:06] <RoyOnWheels> 20mm i think
[20:10:19] <RoyOnWheels> heres application http://www.flickr.com/photos/prusajr/8008899356/in/photostream
[20:11:03] <RoyOnWheels> i mean it seems to work
[20:11:28] <RoyOnWheels> i believe flickr 1 is http://www.2engineers.com/shop/catridge-heater-30w12v/
[20:12:05] <Tom_itx> he's using stainless for the tip?
[20:12:11] <Tom_itx> i wonder how that's working out
[20:12:33] <Tom_itx> it doesn't transfer heat that well
[20:14:27] <RoyOnWheels> not sure
[20:15:30] <Tom_itx> hmm
[20:19:34] <OndraSterver> http://clip2net.com/s/2khwG
[20:19:37] <OndraSterver> let the fun begin
[20:19:40] <OndraSterver> tomorrow though.
[20:19:55] <OndraSterver> (I am using baseline of arduino mega to fit the exact size pin holes etc)
[20:20:17] <OndraSterver> BUT! I will have 4 LEDs instead one!
[20:20:19] <OndraSterver> :P
[20:20:26] <OndraSterver> and much better chip
[20:20:37] <OndraSterver> well, half the flash though, since atmel hasn't started selling 256a1u yet.
[20:21:14] <OndraSterver> but 32MHz!
[20:21:46] <OndraSterver> DAC
[20:21:47] <OndraSterver> DMA
[20:21:51] <OndraSterver> fast ADC..
[20:21:51] <OndraSterver> yeah
[20:22:02] <OndraSterver> with arduino factor it will be much easier to penetrate the market
[20:22:06] <OndraSterver> (mmm sexy talk!)
[21:17:22] <rue_house> oh yea, I'm supposed to make a data logger
[21:21:32] <Casper> it's not done yet??
[21:21:36] <Casper> bad rue_house :D
[21:21:44] <rue_house> :)
[21:21:49] <rue_house> many many projects
[21:22:56] <Casper> rue_house: here, too many work hours and work days
[22:50:35] <Casper> For sepic converter... is it any IC that support boost that work with sepic?