#avr | Logs for 2012-09-19

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[02:06:48] <doobz> Can you integrate laptop memory with an AVR?
[02:06:55] <doobz> like SODIMM memory modules
[02:07:47] <specing> doobz: mega barely, xmega somewhat better
[02:07:57] <specing> doobz: use those old 16MB sticks
[02:08:13] <doobz> Like the DELL ones?
[02:08:26] <doobz> that were proprietary ?
[02:09:20] <doobz> And would I need an xmega still?
[02:11:05] <specing> you need xmega if you don't want to be doing refreshs yourself
[02:11:49] <doobz> I am trying to find tutorials or reference material on interfacing and am having some troubles. Any pointers?
[02:12:33] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver was saying yesterday that you can interface external RAM to an atmega128
[02:13:34] <megal0maniac> Don't think he was talking about anything as big as 16mb
[02:13:42] <megal0maniac> doobz: Why do you need so much?
[02:14:02] <doobz> I don't need that much. I was just interested to see if I could get ECC ram working on a mcu
[02:14:19] <doobz> I am for lulz researching ECC ram and how it is used in space
[02:14:44] <doobz> was thinking maybe I could come up with a ECC solution for a microcontroller
[02:18:32] <megal0maniac> Closest think I've found: http://www.scienceprog.com/adding-external-memory-to-atmega128/
[02:18:55] <doobz> Yea I found that link via hackaday
[03:07:20] <nickoe> At what voltage is the atmega2560 reading a high level? I can't seem to find it in the datasheet.
[03:08:54] <megal0maniac> Typically 0.6*Vcc
[03:09:14] <megal0maniac> So at Vcc=5V, 3V is threshold
[03:14:34] * megal0maniac starts considering raspberry pi again...
[03:16:08] <specing> megal0maniac: cubieboard?
[03:16:57] <megal0maniac> Well it doesn't exist yet
[03:17:10] <specing> I thought it was shipping already
[03:17:20] <specing> not that I have enaugh time to devote to such a project
[03:18:52] <megal0maniac> Wow... http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/kindleberry-pi-using-a-kindle-as-a-raspberry-pi-display-20120911/
[03:20:47] <nickoe> megal0maniac, okay, thank you, I got a 3V3 SPI device, do you think it would be sufficient to enable pullups on the pin? (if that is possible while the SPI is on.)
[03:22:32] <megal0maniac> nickoe: I'm not sure. I've only used SPI once (Unless you count ICSP) and have never needed pull-ups. Only for I2C.
[03:22:49] <megal0maniac> Also, is this 3V3 device 5V tolerant?
[04:12:24] <Vutral> mhm
[04:12:40] <Vutral> these usart
[04:12:48] <Vutral> i just wondered when i run with hw flow contro
[04:39:42] <Kevin`> Vutral: not much meaning in that since there's no buffer, just use some io pins
[04:40:10] <Kevin`> (that is, the uart doesn't have any hardware flow control i'm aware of)
[04:40:19] <Kevin`> not that that prevents you from using it
[04:40:32] <Vutral> you mean a fifo ?
[04:40:57] <Vutral> well i just wondered which mode is intresting for me
[04:41:08] <Vutral> i guess i got plenty of io pins free to use
[04:41:21] <Vutral> i just wondered for the rs485 how i wire my transceiver
[04:41:50] <Vutral> need 2 wires for using shutdown feature of transceiver
[04:41:58] <Vutral> since i run full duplex
[04:42:21] <Vutral> i could run with 3 wires including rx/tx if it was half duplex
[04:42:52] <Vutral> and welll maybe i implement some protocol which allows auto detection of the baud rate
[04:42:53] <Vutral> would be nice
[04:43:35] <Kevin`> that's possible. tricky and completely different from normal operation of course
[04:43:42] <Kevin`> I would personally just pick a rate
[04:43:51] <Vutral> mhm
[04:43:57] <Vutral> which rate
[04:44:16] <Vutral> well the rate is less important
[04:44:22] <Kevin`> work out what it would mean for your data
[04:44:24] <Vutral> more difficult is choosing a frame format
[04:44:24] <Kevin`> or 9600
[04:44:37] <Vutral> 9600N ?
[04:44:39] <Kevin`> (although rs485 can go as fast as you want)
[04:44:41] <Vutral> 8 bit ?
[04:44:44] <Vutral> yeah sure
[04:44:53] <Vutral> i use 38400N8 or so
[04:44:56] <Vutral> usually
[04:45:26] <Vutral> or 115200N4 *g*
[04:45:42] <Vutral> or something with parity but parity is pretty useless i need crc16 in the packets anyway
[04:45:44] <Vutral> when framing
[04:45:59] <Kevin`> there's not too much of a reason not to go fast, the error rate doesn't have much dependence on speed. provided your software can handle processing the data as required.
[04:46:49] <Kevin`> although slower rates are somewhat easier to divide from randomly selected core frequencies
[04:47:06] <Vutral> mhm
[04:47:44] <Vutral> well i would usually design it for 2 or 3 speeds then
[04:47:55] <Vutral> if slew rate is limited i cant go high speed
[04:48:14] <Vutral> maximum speed would be like 2,5 MBaud i read
[04:48:20] <Vutral> 1 fourth of rs485
[04:50:07] <karlp> vutral, how are you doing full duplex rs485 again?
[04:50:22] <Vutral> mhm ?
[04:50:42] <Vutral> well in theory i dont need any collision prevention for point to point
[04:50:51] <Vutral> its 2 pairs
[04:50:59] <karlp> oh right, you're using that wiring.
[04:51:05] <Kevin`> you are doing point to point?
[04:51:12] <Vutral> well at the moment yes
[04:51:14] <karlp> I don't see that very often.
[04:51:16] <Kevin`> i'd personally have gone with the half duplex bux. no need for the hub
[04:51:26] <Kevin`> bus*
[04:51:37] <Vutral> well i got full duplex transceivers
[04:51:55] <Vutral> master sensor actor network usually mhm
[04:52:05] <Vutral> so flow control i sonly required between masters ^^
[05:59:05] <Vutral> mhm
[05:59:13] <Vutral> i wonder
[05:59:18] <Vutral> this internal rc oscillator
[05:59:22] <Vutral> which frequency got it
[05:59:23] <Vutral> lol
[05:59:34] <Vutral> i supply 3.3 volt
[06:42:22] <Kevin`> Vutral: check the datasheet, on most chips though it's 8mhz with an /8 prescaler set for 1mhz
[06:43:39] <megal0maniac> zlog
[07:03:43] <megal0maniac_> Was just thinking about this... Could one turn an atmega328p into a "port expander" type of thing, controlled by uart?
[07:04:08] <megal0maniac_> Basically using simple serial commands to modify registers
[07:05:03] <megal0maniac_> Or even I2C, but uart makes more sense for my application
[07:10:56] <Kevin`> sure, why not?
[07:11:13] <Kevin`> you can, of course, get asic i2c port expanders though
[07:11:22] <megal0maniac_> Because I don't know how :)
[07:11:38] <megal0maniac_> I2C is already standard, uart would be more useful
[07:11:46] <megal0maniac_> i.e. Serial
[07:12:47] <Kevin`> to make this WORK is a pretty simple task, however you decide to do it, so I suggest you just try it
[07:14:11] <Kevin`> the most elegant (but would let the user mess up the uc operation if they wanted) way to do it would be to read the register/memory location along with the data from the uart. no table of things to do, only a few lines of code
[07:14:44] <Kevin`> at least, IMO
[07:15:27] <Kevin`> i'd probably use ascii control codes and printf and everything, which would use many times as much code space as the actual application
[07:15:29] <megal0maniac_> Well, it wouldn't be designed to be interacted with directly by a human. Rather through scripts / commands on another device which also has serial
[07:15:34] <Kevin`> but there's plenty of space on an atmega328p
[07:15:50] <Kevin`> you need probably <100 bytes and have ~32000 :)
[07:21:26] <OndraSterver> doob
[07:21:27] <OndraSterver> hmm
[07:21:28] <OndraSterver> gone
[07:21:38] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac_, you can add 64kB SRAM to atmega
[07:21:47] <OndraSterver> or upto 16MB SDRAM to atxmega a1 series
[07:22:27] <megal0maniac_> Which is the basis of your xboard ultra :)
[07:22:43] <OndraSterver> if it ever exists, yes :)
[07:23:09] <megal0maniac_> What are the advantages of the ultra over the coco, apart from extra IO and RAM?
[07:23:38] <OndraSterver> none
[07:23:43] <OndraSterver> extra IO? There will be less IO :)
[07:23:49] <OndraSterver> the EBI takes two and a half ports
[07:24:08] <megal0maniac_> EBI == SRAM interface?
[07:24:18] <OndraSterver> external bus interface
[07:24:29] <OndraSterver> S(D)RAM on xmega
[07:24:36] <OndraSterver> but SRAM is ridiculously expensive
[07:27:16] <megal0maniac_> I think...
[07:27:31] <megal0maniac_> I'm going to get some kind of UART interface going
[07:28:07] <OndraSterver> I might pop ethernet on the board
[07:28:12] <megal0maniac_> The I'll install an IRC bot (eggdrop) on my router and make it talk to an atmega :D
[07:28:13] <OndraSterver> on ultra
[07:28:21] <megal0maniac_> EN28J60?
[07:28:26] <OndraSterver> maybe
[07:28:33] <megal0maniac_> I like the Wiznet one more
[07:28:41] <OndraSterver> price?
[07:28:46] <megal0maniac_> Fair point
[07:28:51] <OndraSterver> ;)
[07:30:23] <OndraSterver> stop multiplying
[07:35:28] <megal0maniac___> I'm bouncing between computers
[07:35:54] <OndraSterver> I see
[07:36:02] <OndraSterver> that's why my home server runs IRC
[07:36:08] <OndraSterver> and I am connecting to home server :P
[07:36:18] <CapnKernel> megal0maniac: man screen
[07:36:28] <OndraSterver> OMG LINUX
[07:36:28] <OndraSterver> NO
[07:36:29] <OndraSterver> NOT AGAIN
[07:36:39] <OndraSterver> we have had today at school lesson "Intro to operating systems"
[07:36:41] <CapnKernel> Oh no, it's Jan- pretending to be OndraSter
[07:36:43] <OndraSterver> = linux, linux and only linu
[07:36:43] <OndraSterver> x
[07:36:45] <OndraSterver> lol
[07:36:54] <OndraSterver> when they say operating systems they mean linux
[07:36:55] <CapnKernel> Or VNC
[07:37:03] <OndraSterver> and they said that windows sucks a lot
[07:37:04] <OndraSterver> fags
[07:37:04] <CapnKernel> Sounds fair enough to me.
[07:37:21] <OndraSterver> ..
[07:37:25] <OndraSterver> instead we are working on thin clients
[07:37:34] <OndraSterver> that connect to some 7 years old Sun crap
[07:37:41] <OndraSterver> Sun Ray V2 thin clients
[07:37:54] <OndraSterver> SunOS 10.5 I think runs on the servers?
[07:38:17] <OndraSterver> yep
[07:38:52] <jadew> your teacher said windows sucks?
[07:39:01] <OndraSterver> both
[07:39:14] <OndraSterver> I wanted to argue but meh
[07:39:14] <jadew> both teachers?
[07:39:19] <OndraSterver> yes, there are two on each lesson
[07:39:28] <jadew> tell them they are both morons
[07:39:45] <megal0maniac> Do you listen to these lectures?
[07:39:56] <OndraSterver> well they are "practical" lessons, megal0maniac
[07:40:06] <OndraSterver> I wanted to simply ask them "how many corporations run computer domains on linux?"
[07:40:07] <megal0maniac> Oh.
[07:40:11] <OndraSterver> I know only one
[07:40:14] <OndraSterver> and they want to switch to WServer
[07:40:23] <megal0maniac> I know one :)
[07:40:32] <OndraSterver> I know many who run windows domains
[07:40:45] <OndraSterver> and all clients are windows of course
[07:40:48] <megal0maniac> And all the times that we've said that AD would make life easier...
[07:40:55] <OndraSterver> I have yet to see company (not any programming company of course) which runs linux
[07:41:07] <megal0maniac> All Mac here
[07:41:15] <OndraSterver> also, it is using CDE window manager
[07:41:24] <OndraSterver> it took me about 1 hour to figure out what it reminds me of
[07:41:26] <OndraSterver> then i struck me
[07:41:30] <OndraSterver> WINDOWS 3.11 FOR WORKGROUPS!
[07:41:36] <jadew> lol
[07:41:49] <OndraSterver> http://xwinman.org/screenshots/cde-donner.jpg
[07:42:05] <jadew> yeah, it really looks like windows 3.1
[07:42:11] <megal0maniac> http://marutan.net/guis/otheros/win311.png
[07:42:17] <OndraSterver> mostly the running apps on the left
[07:42:17] <CapnKernel> OndraSterver: Asking "how many corporations run computer domains on linux?" is like asking "how many of you actually believe in some mystical sky being? Or the ineffable truth of the three-in-one mist"?
[07:42:19] <OndraSterver> reminded me of it
[07:42:31] <OndraSterver> CapnKernel, heh
[07:42:36] <megal0maniac> That's a screenshot from recently?
[07:42:46] <OndraSterver> that's what it looks like
[07:42:53] <megal0maniac> Oh good grief...
[07:42:53] <OndraSterver> I don't know if there was ever a newer version
[07:43:00] <OndraSterver> since we are using SunOS 10.5
[07:43:04] <OndraSterver> from january 2005
[07:43:05] <OndraSterver> lol
[07:43:14] <OndraSterver> he even said "I am not sure whether are thin clients used nowadays"
[07:43:27] <megal0maniac> It's so ugly :(
[07:43:29] <OndraSterver> yes!
[07:43:42] <jadew> it's got netscape
[07:43:43] <OndraSterver> he also said "awesome is that when you log in, you can have your files etc"
[07:43:44] <CapnKernel> CDE. I remember that shit. Gouge my eyes out. Now. Please.
[07:43:49] <CapnKernel> Thanks for the warning.
[07:43:57] <OndraSterver> never heard about network drives probably
[07:44:04] <OndraSterver> let alone roaming profiles for domains
[07:44:51] <jadew> it sucks that there are teachers so narrow minded
[07:45:26] <OndraSterver> one of them looks like a cool guy and doesn't fit there
[07:45:27] <jadew> some of their students get to be programmers, some of those programmers might end up working with me
[07:45:29] <OndraSterver> the other one is classic linux guy
[07:45:44] <OndraSterver> I know guy who looks similarily to the other guy
[07:45:44] <CapnKernel> Hey, some of us RESEMBLE that remark!
[07:45:52] <jadew> and it will make me feel uncofortable, because I'll have to tell them their beliefs are wrong and they are idiots
[07:46:22] <OndraSterver> also he said something that command line is thosuand times better than any GUI
[07:46:35] <OndraSterver> I don't think he ever used anything beyond that CDE :D
[07:46:40] <jadew> lol
[07:46:48] <jadew> you should have said that!
[07:46:53] <OndraSterver> even KDE that runs on all linux stations in the school is better
[07:46:59] <OndraSterver> I didn't want to argue on the first lesson :( :D
[07:47:18] <jadew> it's how I quit colledge on several occasions ;)
[07:47:22] <OndraSterver> :D
[07:49:14] <jadew> I think, as a CS teacher, you have to be open to new ideas and discussion
[07:49:34] <OndraSterver> also I do wonder if he ever heard about Power Shell
[07:49:42] <OndraSterver> he said how linux's shell is awesome
[07:49:45] <OndraSterver> doubt he ever tried power shell
[07:49:50] <jadew> yeah
[07:49:54] <OndraSterver> which is actually object oriented
[07:49:58] <jadew> I know
[07:50:01] <OndraSterver> :)
[07:50:54] <megal0maniac> Mr Admin decided that router needed a quick, unannounced restart
[07:51:58] <megal0maniac> CapnKernel: I know screen, but what IRC client do you run then?
[07:52:07] <OndraSterver> irssi is my bet
[07:52:08] <jadew> irssi
[07:52:35] <CapnKernel> You could run finch, which is the text mode version of pidgin.
[07:52:38] <megal0maniac> My router can run irssi and screen, but there's no guarantee that internet will be on at home
[07:52:40] <CapnKernel> (Both use the purple lib)
[07:53:00] <CapnKernel> Or VNC to share a graphical version to somewhere else
[07:53:08] <megal0maniac> Nah, too clunky
[07:53:18] <OndraSterver> MS guys simply use remote desktop :P
[07:53:33] <megal0maniac> I'm content (for now) using Quassel and zlog every now and then :)
[07:53:34] <CapnKernel> Is VNC any harder than remote desktop?
[07:53:42] <megal0maniac> Slower
[07:53:46] <megal0maniac> On a LAN, at least
[07:53:47] <jadew> yeah, it's way slower
[07:53:49] <OndraSterver> RDP also allows you to share printers, smartcards
[07:53:52] <jadew> even on LAN
[07:53:54] <OndraSterver> drives
[07:54:12] <CapnKernel> You can run "rdesktop" to talk to Windows boxes.
[07:54:14] <megal0maniac> Apple's screen share actually uses VNC, but it's faster
[07:54:34] <CapnKernel> Until a few days ago, my wife was rebooting into Windows to check her college email.
[07:54:47] <jadew> megal0maniac, that's because they're using it differently than sending images
[07:55:11] <CapnKernel> Then I showed her rdesktop and vinagre, and now she loves me <blush>
[07:55:32] <jadew> CapnKernel, why did she have to do it from windows?
[07:55:57] <CapnKernel> Because her college (she's a teacher) told her she needed Windows to connect to the college Windows boxes
[07:56:06] <jadew> oh
[07:56:08] <CapnKernel> So that's what she was doing.
[07:56:09] <jadew> hehe
[07:56:40] <jadew> I haven't checked, but how is rdp from linux working compared to windows to windows?
[07:56:45] <jadew> is it the same or slower?
[07:56:48] <CapnKernel> Seems just fine
[07:57:07] <CapnKernel> I was surprised it works as well as it does. I can't tell a speed difference between the two
[07:57:22] <jadew> nice
[07:57:30] <CapnKernel> (And yes, VNC is bloody slow on a LAN, and I have no idea why. rdesktop to her college is faster than VNC on a LAN)
[07:58:35] <jadew> I might be mistaken here but I think it's because rdesktop is having the applications paint themselves in a device context that's streamed directly over the internet
[07:58:46] <jadew> as opposed to painting, taking a screenshoot and sending it over
[07:58:56] <jadew> which is what happens with VNC
[07:59:13] <jadew> however Apple to Apple works faster, most likely because they're doing something similar
[08:00:18] <OndraSterver> could be, because xchat is broken over RDP sometimes
[08:00:24] <OndraSterver> fails to redraw unless it is in foreground
[08:05:43] <OndraSterver> arrgh, why is all the cool ebay stuff US located?
[08:05:50] <OndraSterver> and why is shipping 100 US bucks from there to here? :(
[08:06:06] <OndraSterver> Tom_itx, Logic16 is about 300€ delivered here
[08:06:10] <OndraSterver> that is NOT friendly price
[08:06:19] <OndraSterver> 249€ + 19% VAT + 15€ delivery
[08:07:21] <jadew> it's because they don't have to pay VAT, you do
[08:07:27] <jadew> where are you from?
[08:07:27] <OndraSterver> heh
[08:07:28] <OndraSterver> CZE
[08:07:47] <OndraSterver> I'd rather get something like this
[08:07:47] <OndraSterver> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-HEWLETT-PACKARD-AGILENT-1663A-LOGIC-ANALYZER-SYSTEM-/150860127119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231ff6db8f
[08:07:54] <jadew> yeah, it's annoying to see how many cheap and cool stuff they have
[08:07:56] <OndraSterver> 34 channels, 100MHz
[08:08:10] <OndraSterver> one of many :(
[08:08:39] <jadew> nice, how much ram?
[08:08:47] <OndraSterver> no idea
[08:09:10] <OndraSterver> or this
[08:09:13] <OndraSterver> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-1240-LOGIC-ANALYZER-Powers-Up-/120969523491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2a587123
[08:09:17] <OndraSterver> probably some stupid error
[08:09:20] <OndraSterver> front panel error
[08:09:30] <OndraSterver> 72 channels even ther
[08:09:30] <OndraSterver> e
[08:10:06] <jadew> why don't you get a cheap PCB analyzer like the normal people?
[08:10:13] <OndraSterver> hmm?
[08:10:32] <jadew> like the salae or the open bench one
[08:10:42] <OndraSterver> well the saleae is the one I was quoting
[08:11:21] <jadew> why are you looking at the big ones then? :)
[08:11:24] <OndraSterver> but 16 channels only at 12.5MHz
[08:11:35] <OndraSterver> because they are cheaper and offer much better specs
[08:11:39] <OndraSterver> I also looked at this
[08:11:40] <OndraSterver> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100MHz-16CH-250MHz-8CH-PC-USB-Logic-Analyzer-with-support-I2C-SPI-UART-and-PWM-/251149527917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a79adab6d
[08:11:44] <OndraSterver> but china
[08:11:46] <OndraSterver> :/
[08:11:49] <jadew> open bench logic sniffer does 16 channels at 100Mhz
[08:12:09] <jadew> 12 kSamples memory tho
[08:12:17] <jadew> for 16 channels
[08:12:22] <jadew> you get 24 for 8
[08:12:30] <OndraSterver> $50 hmm
[08:12:37] <megal0maniac> But stuff-all buffer, no?
[08:12:43] <jadew> yeah
[08:12:57] <megal0maniac> Is that something which is easy to add?
[08:13:12] <jadew> wait, what?
[08:13:20] <megal0maniac> A buffer
[08:13:27] <jadew> additional memory you mean?
[08:14:00] <CapnKernel> You got a URL for the open bench stuff?
[08:14:04] <OndraSterver> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/open-workbench-logic-sniffer-p-612.html
[08:14:45] <jadew> the 24k memory it has for storing the samples is the memory from the fpga
[08:14:57] <jadew> so I don't think it would be that easy to increase it
[08:15:37] <jadew> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Open_Bench_Logic_Sniffer
[08:15:44] <jadew> that's the project's page
[08:18:13] <megal0maniac> Ah... Mkay
[08:19:16] <jadew> it has a compression option tho, which gives a bit more sampling time. I didn't have time to really play with all that so I can't tell how efficient it is
[08:19:53] <megal0maniac> That's the only bad thing I've heard about it. That you can't sample for very long
[08:20:23] <jadew> and that the software sucks, you heard that from me :P
[08:20:40] <megal0maniac> Well you would say that :P
[08:21:14] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Sparkfun also makes it, if you don't want it coming from China :P
[08:21:30] <jadew> I think it's more expensive there
[08:21:31] <OndraSterver> heh
[08:21:35] <OndraSterver> also US -> EI
[08:21:36] <OndraSterver> EU
[08:21:39] <jadew> and you have to pay for shipping as well
[08:21:39] <OndraSterver> paying taxes
[08:21:41] <OndraSterver> yep
[08:21:55] <jadew> mine came quite fast from seedstudio
[08:22:01] <jadew> they're not as slow as dx
[08:22:09] <megal0maniac> jadew: What about this?
[08:22:09] <megal0maniac> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/logic-sniffer-16bit-input-buffer-wing-p-721.html?cPath=61_68
[08:22:22] <megal0maniac> itead took 40 days, but cost $3
[08:22:32] <megal0maniac> And Sparkfun is ALWAYS more expensive
[08:22:39] <jadew> megal0maniac, that's the bus buffer for the other 16 channels
[08:22:44] <jadew> it has 32 channels
[08:22:56] <jadew> 16 of them are buffered as in they allow you to put 5v on them
[08:23:17] <jadew> the other 16, they don't come with the pins soldered and they only support 3.3v
[08:23:21] <megal0maniac> Ah, so not extra memory. I misunderstood :)
[08:23:25] <jadew> (you can add the pins yourself)
[08:23:34] <jadew> the wing is just to make them 5v tolerant
[08:25:24] <megal0maniac> I see. The existing 16 are buffered, though, right?
[08:25:33] <jadew> yes
[08:26:21] <megal0maniac> Nice. http://www.rs-components.com/south-africa/ZAoffline.htm
[08:26:30] <megal0maniac> 1st of June is a long way away
[08:27:17] <OndraSterver> lol
[08:27:21] <OndraSterver> quite an error
[08:27:48] <jadew> "Live stock availability and pricing"
[08:28:01] <jadew> they have cattles and stuff?
[08:28:18] <megal0maniac> http://www.rs-components.com/offline/europe.html
[08:28:31] <megal0maniac> It's global, which is irritatiting
[08:28:41] <jadew> use farnel
[08:28:56] <megal0maniac> I want to check the status of an order
[08:29:01] <jadew> ah
[08:29:06] <jadew> it's gonna come in june
[08:29:26] <megal0maniac> :)
[08:30:06] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Half the stuff I ordered will only be in stock next week. So they're couriering half of it to me tomorrow, and the rest next week. For free :/
[08:30:28] <OndraSterver> heh
[08:30:30] <OndraSterver> cool
[08:30:50] <megal0maniac> Fail
[08:31:13] <megal0maniac> Only bought the eeprom because I felt bad about a EUR0.60 order being shipped for free
[08:31:26] <megal0maniac> Now they're making 2 seperate deliveries XD
[08:31:57] <megal0maniac> GOING OFFLINE! Going to put irssi on my router.
[08:36:43] <megal0maniac> Network point is too weak. Link isn't detected by the router :/
[08:37:29] <OndraSterver> eh?
[08:38:00] <megal0maniac> Cable link
[08:38:09] <megal0maniac> Router doesn't detect that it's connected to anything
[08:38:23] <megal0maniac> Laptop takes unusually long and iMac doesn't detect it either
[08:39:45] <OndraSterver> hu?
[08:39:47] <OndraSterver> huh
[08:39:50] <megal0maniac> Cable too long or something like that
[08:39:55] <OndraSterver> is your cable longer than 100 metres?
[08:40:02] * megal0maniac shrugs
[08:40:06] <megal0maniac> It's a wall box
[08:40:14] <OndraSterver> that doesn't answer my question
[08:40:16] <megal0maniac> All the other ones in the room work
[08:40:22] <megal0maniac> Well I don't know
[08:40:26] <megal0maniac> But I doubt it
[08:40:30] <OndraSterver> could be just borked cable
[08:40:38] <megal0maniac> Likely
[08:40:41] <megal0maniac> Irritating
[08:44:49] <OndraSterver> hmm I have got here board from TV
[08:44:52] <OndraSterver> and it is... oily
[08:44:58] <OndraSterver> the bottom side
[08:46:21] <megal0maniac> Why oil in TV?
[08:46:22] <OndraSterver> I have recapped it but it still doesn't power on
[08:46:23] <OndraSterver> no idea
[08:46:27] <OndraSterver> the PCB's bottom side is like.. oily
[08:46:40] <OndraSterver> maybe once it was reflow soldered they tried removing some crap
[08:46:43] <OndraSterver> and it oiled after 5 years
[08:47:01] <OndraSterver> maybe it is just the silkscreen giving me that weird feel on my hands
[08:48:09] <OndraSterver> I still haven't fixed the TV
[08:48:14] <OndraSterver> it had blown caps, so I changed them
[08:48:18] <OndraSterver> (it is LG, so it is common)
[08:48:23] <OndraSterver> but.. nothing
[08:48:28] <CapnKernel> Leaked caps?
[08:48:31] <OndraSterver> I probed the LV side and the voltage was going up & down
[08:48:32] <OndraSterver> yes
[08:48:33] <megal0maniac> That's the worst
[08:48:47] <CapnKernel> You sure it's oil and not electrolyte?
[08:48:52] <megal0maniac> When you spend ages "fixing" something, but you haven't
[08:49:05] <OndraSterver> CapnKernel, I said on the BOTTOM side :)
[08:49:09] <OndraSterver> and it doesn't smell
[08:49:16] <CapnKernel> gravity, my question still stands
[08:49:17] <OndraSterver> maybe it is just the silkscreening technology
[08:49:25] <OndraSterver> gravity would force it down, not on the bottom side
[08:49:47] <CapnKernel> nfi
[08:51:38] <megal0maniac> http://xkcd.com/1110/
[09:03:25] <megal0maniac> Anyone done scrolling yet?
[09:04:36] <megal0maniac> CapnKernel: Can you please explain to me (briefly) how to use screen?
[09:04:52] <megal0maniac> I can SSH into the device, then how do I open the existing tty?
[09:05:20] <CapnKernel> If you just run "screen", you can start a new session. (A session can consist of multiple terminal/shells)
[09:05:31] <CapnKernel> Look in the man page for -R, -d and -x
[09:05:46] <CapnKernel> Also "screen -ls" will show you existing sessions
[09:05:53] <megal0maniac> Mkay :)
[09:06:02] <CapnKernel> And if there are multiple sesssions (not a good idea, but possible), screen -r
[09:06:08] <CapnKernel> man screen is your friend
[09:08:35] <megal0maniac> Basically, if I open a terminal over serial, and open another one over SSH, I want them to show the same thing. Screen is what I'm looking for, correct?
[09:09:22] <CapnKernel> If you want to see the same thing in two different places, use -x
[09:10:48] <megal0maniac> Gool :)
[09:11:18] <OndraSterver> hmm
[09:11:25] <OndraSterver> the TV logic seems to be working
[09:11:45] <OndraSterver> pulling about 1 Amp at 15V + 5V rails together
[09:12:06] <megal0maniac> But you can't watch logic :)
[09:12:20] <OndraSterver> not sure how much at the 5V rail, but the TO3 7805 got pretty hot. 10V drop and it was few watts at least on this
[09:12:29] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, but I need to know if the logic is okay :)
[09:12:33] <OndraSterver> and the PSU is the culprit
[09:12:44] <OndraSterver> there is some ON signal
[09:12:57] <OndraSterver> and the PSU's output was (dis)
[09:13:03] <OndraSterver> charging every 5 seconds or so
[09:13:15] <OndraSterver> so I do wonder if the ON signal changes it from low power mode to regular power mode
[09:13:16] <OndraSterver> or what
[09:14:09] <OndraSterver> hmm nope only to the LCD inverter side of the PSU
[10:11:00] <megal0maniac> <OndraSterver> ask me tomorrow when there is more light
[10:11:01] <megal0maniac> <OndraSterver> it is too dark for my phone already
[10:11:07] <OndraSterver> yes
[10:11:11] <OndraSterver> it is dark here today though :D
[10:11:15] <megal0maniac> :0
[10:23:31] <megal0maniac> Cool. Back online solidly for the next 4 hours
[10:55:09] <megal0maniac> I like this: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=26573
[11:01:46] <OndraSterver> .. linux users
[11:03:37] <OndraSterver> you will get used to it :P
[11:07:39] <karlp> s/linux //g
[11:15:34] <megal0maniac_> OndraSterver: I'm a Linux user :)
[11:16:44] <megal0maniac_> Any luck with that TV?
[11:18:48] <OndraSterver> I need a new fuse for it first :)
[11:19:35] <OndraSterver> I accidentaly blew it
[11:19:42] <OndraSterver> when I was moving probe from scope around
[11:21:46] <megal0maniac_> Did it make exciting noises?
[11:21:56] <OndraSterver> just blew up
[11:57:58] <root_____> Hmmm... irssi seems difficult
[11:58:48] <r00t|home> don't irc as root!!111
[11:59:01] <OndraSterver> LOL
[11:59:11] <megal0maniac> I can't figure out how to change my nick :P
[11:59:18] <megal0maniac> I am trying
[12:02:27] <OndraSterver> huh, 1024x768 @ 60Hz is 47MHz throughouput
[12:09:11] <megal0maniac> SUCCESS!
[12:14:24] <OndraSterver> congrats
[12:24:50] <megal0ma1iac> I still prefer quassel, but I'll warm up to this I suppose
[12:25:36] <OndraSterver> I still prefer XChat on windows :P
[12:26:09] <megal0ma1iac> I use Quassel on Windows :)
[12:26:15] <jadew> I'm using mIRC, because I like the UI
[12:26:26] <megal0ma1iac> I'm primarily a Windows user
[12:26:27] <jadew> however the scripting is kinda rudimentary
[12:26:37] <jadew> there's a nice client called Klient
[12:26:42] <megal0ma1iac> You get scripting? :P
[12:26:51] <jadew> but it's not free
[12:27:40] <megal0ma1iac> I spent quite a while looking for a Windows client which I liked. Quassel is the best I've found so far
[12:27:54] <jadew> I'm gonna look into it
[12:28:04] <jadew> I've searched for a good one as well
[12:29:05] <megal0ma1iac> At the moment, my opinion of irssi is "not bad"
[12:29:09] <jadew> lol: On September 8th, the IRC was in turmoil because someone discovered and actively exploited a bug in Quassel's CTCP handling that would cause the core to crash when processing a specially crafted CTCP message. What followed was masses of users quitting from Freenode, because their cores crashed.
[12:29:42] <jadew> I remember a while ago, the biggest ISP in the country had a filter for a specific string
[12:29:49] <megal0ma1iac> It's an odd setup, with the core and client
[12:29:52] <jadew> OpenSSH x.x.x
[12:30:06] <megal0ma1iac> But I didn't even know about it until I tried to install it on Mac
[12:30:15] <jadew> when someone would write that string on IRC, all the users from that ISP would get disconnected
[12:30:30] <Landon> you sure it wasn't STARTKEYLOGGER ?
[12:32:15] <jadew> megal0ma1iac, it doesn't look bad
[12:32:33] <jadew> Landon, I don't really remember what the string was, it was quite funny tho
[13:04:48] <Jan-> My really tiny AVRs arrived
[13:04:52] <Jan-> they're small
[13:09:55] <nalT> anyone know what the -M option for avr-gcc does?
[13:10:24] <nalT> it would appear my code will only compile with that enabled, a structure typedef is not playing nice
[13:31:14] <megal0maniac> zlog
[13:33:10] <megal0maniac> nalT: Generate make dependencies
[13:33:16] * Jan- sings
[13:33:20] <megal0maniac> (avr-gcc -v --help)
[13:33:28] <megal0maniac> Jan-: Which ones did you get?
[13:44:43] <nalT> http://pastebin.com/aLwNnJ9F http://pastebin.com/BQSxeuCp any idea why these sources throw this error:
[13:45:12] <nalT> In file included from ledcube.c:1:0:
[13:45:12] <nalT> ledcubedriver.h:7:35: error: array type has incomplete element type
[13:47:11] <megal0maniac> CapnKernel: Thank you. I am finally happy with IRC :P
[13:47:34] <megal0maniac> Next thing to do is set it up at home so I can access remotely
[14:06:05] <megal0maniac> !seen RikusW
[14:06:06] <tobbor> RikusW was last seen in #avr on Sep 18 12:56 2012
[14:36:20] <Jan-> so actually it IS pin compatible
[14:36:23] <Jan-> d'oh
[14:37:11] <OndraSterver> nalT,
[14:37:15] <OndraSterver> which one of them is the .c?
[14:39:15] <OndraSterver> wait
[14:39:16] <OndraSterver> extern volatile struct layertype layers[5];
[14:39:20] <OndraSterver> why do you have "struct" there?
[14:39:27] <OndraSterver> when layertype is already struct something
[14:42:03] <Jan-> erm okay
[14:42:05] <Jan-> it sort of works now
[14:42:16] <Jan-> except it's producing an extremely high frequency sine wave with a period of about 2 microseconds
[14:42:29] <Jan-> amplifier has decided to be an oscillator
[14:42:43] <timemage> OndraSterver, probably a holdover from before the typedef was introduced.
[14:43:59] <Jan-> oscillation goes away if Phil puts his finger on the feedback resistor :/
[14:44:03] <Jan-> perhaps feedback resistor is too high?
[14:45:38] <specing> Or Phil is a very stable guy!
[14:47:35] <Jan-> it doesn't oscillate with a 10k feedback resistor.
[14:47:48] * Jan- ponders 50k pot
[14:50:54] <OndraSterver> specing, nice one :D
[14:51:06] <OndraSterver> darn, I hate when I desolder some part and I can not find datasheet for it
[14:51:28] <specing> OndraSterver: :)
[14:57:07] <Jan-> ok, this seems to be working
[14:57:18] <Jan-> but I don't get how it manages to get the output to go positive and negative, from a single rail supply.
[14:57:21] * Jan- scratches her head
[15:00:33] <Jan-> I assume I have to rectify this before I can connect it to an AVR's comparator
[15:03:38] <solexious> I'm currently quite lost finding the cheapest avrs what will do usb communication and 2-3 pwm pins. Any advice?
[15:04:20] <OndraSterver> hardware usb?
[15:04:43] <solexious> preferably
[15:05:04] <solexious> ive used the at90usb in the past, but its a bit overkill
[15:17:53] <Tom_itx> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Apple_granted_patent_for_technology_that_disables_phones_based_on_location-article-fajb_apple_restrictions_sep2012-html.aspx
[15:18:40] <Tom_itx> i will carry a disable device with me in my car :)
[15:25:07] <Corwin> Tom_itx, sir.... you are evil :)
[15:25:40] <Jan-> I have a favorite character in an obscure piece of fanfic that's called Corwin
[15:26:16] <Corwin> Jan-, does that fanfic involves Chronicles of Amber?
[15:27:15] <Jan-> No.
[15:27:22] <Jan-> Well possibly, it's a massive crossover
[15:27:28] <Jan-> But I wasn't aware of the connection.
[15:27:34] <Jan-> Is Corwin some sort of god of technology
[15:29:45] <Corwin> can you share link ?
[15:30:01] <Jan-> http://www.eyrie-productions.com/UF/
[15:30:04] <Jan-> it's huge
[15:30:14] <Jan-> corwin only turns up in the last seventeen novels' worth :)
[15:32:14] <Corwin> wow.... great mix
[15:35:06] <Jan-> what's a great mix
[15:35:37] <Corwin> your link... great mix of stories
[15:36:14] <Corwin> looks i have stuff to read for next few weeks :)
[15:36:14] <Jan-> it involves more or less everything that's been big in the US since the 50s :)
[15:36:27] <Jan-> The quality is a bit variable
[15:36:37] <Jan-> they've been writing it since 1991, yes seriously
[15:36:51] <Jan-> it starts out as a rather silly college life spoof stroke revenge fantasy
[15:36:57] <Jan-> but it grows up over the intervening twenty-one years.
[15:44:04] <specing> lol @ UF
[15:44:17] <specing> holoDECstation -.-
[15:47:28] <Jan-> keep reading, there will be more lol @ UF
[15:47:36] <Jan-> you wait 'til the bit where...
[15:47:51] * Jan- vanishes under an ACME 1-ton weight provided by the spoiler avoidance institute
[15:47:52] <Jan-> ...oof
[15:48:09] <Corwin> :D
[15:58:40] * Jan- breaks out the attinies for her latest project!
[15:58:44] <Jan-> arrived while I was at work
[15:58:50] <Jan-> don't you love it whebn that happens
[16:02:09] <TechIsCool> hey everyone I have a question. If I am pooling my digital and analog pins and then outputting them via Ethernet shield will it be faster if I pool them in a async loop and then read the data out of memory or just output it from the read.
[16:03:03] <Jan-> when someone starts asking about shields it makes me think about arduinos
[16:04:32] * specing read that as "a tities"
[16:04:53] <Jan-> specing would
[16:05:04] <Jan-> 10K pullup on !RESET, isn't it?
[16:05:10] <TechIsCool> Jan yes it is arduino but I thought I would get a btter answer her
[16:05:19] <TechIsCool> better
[16:05:23] <Jan-> TechIsCool: hey, don't mind me, I don't know much about this stuff.
[16:05:32] <TechIsCool> alright
[16:06:22] <RikusW> Hi Jan
[16:06:48] * RikusW gives Jan a glass of H2O2 :-P
[16:07:04] <TechIsCool> see with a comment like ^ I don't think you are nobody
[16:07:05] <Laurenceb_> hi
[16:07:14] <Laurenceb_> where can i download the app note code?
[16:07:29] <Laurenceb_> from atmel?
[16:08:09] <specing> RikusW: I would like some H2O too!
[16:08:12] <Jan-> hi RikusW
[16:08:13] <specing> ;P
[16:08:17] * Jan- offers RikusW a beer
[16:08:24] * specing steals the beer
[16:08:42] * Jan- doesn't tell specing about the strychnine
[16:08:52] <RikusW> specing: you've not read it properly, I said H2O2 !!!
[16:09:36] <specing> And what did I say?
[16:09:44] <RikusW> H2O
[16:09:49] <specing> no
[16:09:49] <RikusW> NOT the same thing
[16:09:53] <specing> I've said 'H2O too'
[16:09:57] <megal0maniac> Ammonia vs water :)
[16:10:04] <specing> which sounds ~= H2O2
[16:10:06] <specing> :)
[16:10:12] <RikusW> hydrogen peroxide == H2O2
[16:10:25] <RikusW> ammonia == NH3
[16:10:26] <specing> RikusW: read what I said loudly
[16:10:26] <megal0maniac> Dammit
[16:10:30] <megal0maniac> So close :P
[16:10:58] <RikusW> specing: too clever of you :-P
[16:11:02] <specing> :D
[16:11:33] * RikusW spilled some 35% H2O2 on himself......
[16:11:52] <OndraSterver> lovely
[16:11:59] <OndraSterver> hope you don't have a cat or a dog
[16:12:17] <megal0maniac> You are blonde!
[16:12:19] <OndraSterver> so, if I were to generate some 1024x768 VGA
[16:12:22] * megal0maniac is a great magician
[16:12:26] <OndraSterver> I would go for FPGA + serial/R2R DAC
[16:12:35] <OndraSterver> since 1024x768 @ 60Hz is about 50MHz bandwidth
[16:12:42] <RikusW> its about the best antibiotic there is.... but 35% is a bit strong for cleaning wounds :-P
[16:12:49] <OndraSterver> either fpga or cpld*
[16:12:56] <OndraSterver> no
[16:12:59] <OndraSterver> vodka is the best
[16:13:08] <OndraSterver> kills bacteria and every unwanted living thing in your body
[16:13:13] <OndraSterver> BUT WE HAVE PROHIBITION NOW HERE SO YOU CAN NOT BE CURED!
[16:13:44] <specing> unwanted and *wanted*
[16:14:02] <OndraSterver> hmm is it odd or even week?
[16:14:03] <specing> prohibition? lol
[16:14:05] <OndraSterver> I think it is even
[16:14:07] <OndraSterver> week
[16:14:10] <OndraSterver> yes, prohibition
[16:14:18] <RikusW> like illegal ?
[16:14:19] <specing> no alcohol?
[16:14:23] <OndraSterver> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/czech-alcohol-ban-poisonings-controversy.html
[16:14:27] <OndraSterver> <20% allowed
[16:14:44] <RikusW> was there methanol involved ?
[16:14:50] <OndraSterver> obviously
[16:15:03] <OndraSterver> this has been happening in poland as well
[16:15:08] <OndraSterver> and in russia of course too
[16:15:19] <Jan-> will these brand new attiny13As expect a crystal
[16:15:25] <OndraSterver> no
[16:15:28] <Jan-> or are they supplied set up to use their internal oscillator?
[16:15:34] <RikusW> ethanol is the best antidote for methanol poisoning.... really
[16:15:40] <OndraSterver> yes it is
[16:15:53] <OndraSterver> and those dumbfucks instead buy some antidote that costs $10k
[16:15:56] <OndraSterver> EACH
[16:16:09] <OndraSterver> instead just having them drink original alcohol
[16:16:22] <OndraSterver> Jan-, they ship with internal oscillator as clk source
[16:16:26] <Jan-> okay
[16:16:31] <RikusW> way cheaper
[16:16:37] <Jan-> only one query
[16:16:52] <Jan-> which ones are the crystal pins?!
[16:17:34] <Jan-> can these ones even HAVE crystals
[16:17:42] <OndraSterver> hmm not sure about 13a
[16:17:45] <OndraSterver> but the others can
[16:17:53] <OndraSterver> if not xtal it can have external clock source
[16:17:57] <OndraSterver> aka you feed it square wave
[16:18:02] <Jan-> oh crapola.
[16:18:11] <specing> Jan-: they'll only run when phil is not around, obviously!
[16:18:13] <Jan-> I didn't think of that :/
[16:18:36] <Jan-> oh well maybe it'll still be OK
[16:18:42] <Jan-> what frequency does the internal oscillator run at
[16:18:48] <OndraSterver> oscillators cost few cents too I think
[16:18:49] <RikusW> 8MHz maybe ?
[16:18:52] <OndraSterver> check datasheet
[16:18:55] <OndraSterver> either 8 or 9.6
[16:19:06] <Jan-> I need a 40khz square wave to drive an infrared sender
[16:19:20] <OndraSterver> hmm I'd go for a timer :P
[16:19:26] <megal0maniac> RikusW: They come running at 8mhz with ckdiv8 set
[16:19:27] <Jan-> I was thinking PWM
[16:19:30] <megal0maniac> So 1mhz
[16:19:30] <OndraSterver> yes
[16:19:40] <Jan-> 4.8 or 9.6
[16:19:43] <Jan-> ffs
[16:19:54] <Jan-> I got the 40khz IR demodulator device because it fit into 16mhz.
[16:20:04] <OndraSterver> you can get away with anything
[16:20:19] <OndraSterver> just set the TOP value to something
[16:20:19] <Jan-> actually it's 240 clocks per pulse at 9.6mhz
[16:20:20] <Jan-> :D
[16:20:25] <OndraSterver> there you go
[16:20:26] <OndraSterver> set top as 240
[16:20:30] <OndraSterver> and compare match to 120
[16:20:39] <Jan-> I guess the tinies don't have PWM
[16:21:05] <megal0maniac> Jan-: Why did you get the tin13a in particular?
[16:21:12] <Jan-> megal0maniac: availability. price.
[16:21:13] <OndraSterver> tinies have PWM
[16:21:18] <Jan-> It's in the datasheet
[16:21:21] <Jan-> I'm just not sure which pin it is
[16:21:31] <OndraSterver> ther are two PWM outputs I think
[16:21:35] <Jan-> ALso I do need the analog comparator and that definitely clashes with the programmer, which is a PITA
[16:21:44] <OndraSterver> why?
[16:21:52] <Jan-> have to keep disconnecting the programmer
[16:21:59] <OndraSterver> first world problems..
[16:22:06] <Jan-> hah
[16:22:10] <Jan-> yes I'm spoiled
[16:22:16] <Jan-> is it the OCRx pins that are PWM
[16:22:33] <Jan-> or is it OC0A an OC0B
[16:22:41] <OndraSterver> oc0a and b
[16:22:48] <Jan-> ...which clash with the analog comparator
[16:22:48] <OndraSterver> "output compare 0 A/B"
[16:22:52] <OndraSterver> both?
[16:22:54] <Jan-> looks like I'm pin poking this one
[16:22:56] <Jan-> yes
[16:23:10] <Jan-> pin 6 is PB1/MISO/AIN1/OC0B/INT0/PCINT1
[16:23:18] <OndraSterver> check tiny85, it is cheaper than tiny13a :)
[16:23:27] <Jan-> pin 5 is PB0/MOSI/AIN0/OC0A/PCINT0
[16:23:31] * megal0maniac was thinking that
[16:23:37] <Jan-> well I have the tinies now
[16:23:48] <OndraSterver> what do you need analog comparator for?
[16:23:57] <Jan-> I need to send this IR message when an audio event happens
[16:24:03] <Jan-> I have a mic and a preamp all set up
[16:24:16] <OndraSterver> isn't raw ADC enough?
[16:24:27] <Jan-> possibly but I'd have to poll like crap for audio
[16:24:43] <OndraSterver> well you could simply use external comparator
[16:24:53] <Jan-> yes but it's easy enough to bit bash the 40khz isn't it?
[16:25:07] <OndraSterver> just disconnect the OC0 pins
[16:25:16] <OndraSterver> and on compare match grab an interrupt and change the pin in software
[16:25:29] <Jan-> I have two spare pins with a compare on them
[16:25:46] <Jan-> but I'm really space constrained and if it's just a case of having to do the 40k pin toggle in software on a spare pin, isn't that easier
[16:26:37] <Jan-> I'd rather not add a whole new chip just for that
[16:27:14] <RikusW> megal0maniac: http://www.rocketnumbernine.com/2009/04/10/5v-33v-bidirectional-level-converter
[16:27:56] <RikusW> Jan-: get a bigger AVR for development purposes eg ATmega48 or 88
[16:28:18] <RikusW> should help with the connect/disconnect problem...
[16:28:37] <Jan-> feh it's OK
[16:28:39] <Jan-> I can just about manage that
[16:28:43] <Jan-> it's a 2x3 dil header
[16:28:53] <RikusW> megal0maniac: Do make sure the SOURCE is connected to the low V side...
[16:28:53] <Jan-> I have an atmega168 actually.
[16:29:08] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Ah, I was reading that last night on my phone :)
[16:29:16] <megal0maniac> I will
[16:29:36] <RikusW> megal0maniac: that exact page ?
[16:30:10] <megal0maniac> Yes
[16:30:41] <OndraSterver> <RikusW> megal0maniac: Do make sure the SOURCE is connected to the low V side...
[16:30:46] <OndraSterver> is that a white smoke I smell... mmm
[16:31:01] <RikusW> hopefully not :-P
[16:31:17] <RikusW> unless the HV side is 250Vac :-D
[16:31:33] <Jan-> er, what programmer should I choose for Tom_itx's avrisp thing
[16:32:05] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I have some GTL2000DL chips here too, though I'll have to make a pcb to use them (RS 510-617)
[16:33:12] <RikusW> GTL2003 is only 8 lines iirc
[16:36:50] <Jan-> Yay, computer talking to tiny microchip
[16:37:03] <Jan-> tiny microchip says hello.
[16:37:31] <RikusW> Jan-: did you connect that without help ?
[16:38:04] <RikusW> or did phil connect it for you ?
[16:39:47] <Jan-> Phil made the breadboard, I plugged in the programming header
[16:40:04] <Jan-> what do you think I am, the bloody daredevil
[16:40:31] * RikusW tries to imagine connecting stuff with his eyes closed.....
[16:40:43] <Jan-> <3 polarizing lugs
[16:41:08] <RikusW> and how about breadboarding itself ? !...
[16:41:22] <Jan-> I have done it, at some point doing things just to make a point becomes a waste of time
[16:41:43] <Jan-> so usually I use my Phil, it's quite effective
[16:41:49] <Jan-> *snkrnskrnskr*
[16:41:51] <specing> Why not replace your eyes?
[16:42:04] <Jan-> technology shortfall much
[16:42:08] <RikusW> if it were that easy....
[16:42:14] <specing> Oh right, I forgot what century Im in again...
[16:42:16] <Jan-> OK now I have to write some actual code.
[16:42:29] <Jan-> I need to include avr.h as a minimum, right
[16:42:46] <specing> FALSCH
[16:43:14] <Jan-> oh
[16:43:16] <Jan-> avr/io.h
[16:43:28] <Jan-> and possibly avr/interrupt.h
[16:43:34] <OndraSterver> ye
[16:44:30] <Amadiro> Jan-, you don't have to include anything, but to do something useful, you'd usually want to
[16:44:42] <Jan-> well sure
[16:44:54] <OndraSterver> :D
[16:44:56] <Jan-> otherwise I'd have to do everything by raw addresses or something
[16:45:18] <Amadiro> yeh, that's not so recommendable
[16:45:23] <Jan-> this is immediately a pain because there's only one port and I want various pins to do various things
[16:45:32] <Jan-> if I set a pin to be an input can I then not set it high at all
[16:45:33] <OndraSterver> why is that a pain?
[16:45:37] <OndraSterver> yes
[16:45:42] <Jan-> fine.
[16:45:46] <Jan-> saves mistakes.
[16:45:47] <OndraSterver> PORT register's bit works as pullup when the pin is input
[16:46:14] <Jan-> I need B0 and B1 to be inputs (since I want to use the analog comparator)
[16:46:17] <Jan-> but 3 and 4 to be outputs
[16:46:45] * Jan- thinks there should be binary literals in C
[16:46:45] <OndraSterver> there are
[16:46:45] <Jan-> like how
[16:47:30] <Jan-> once again I am confused by endianness.
[16:48:09] <OndraSterver> endiannes makes on difference on single byte operations
[16:49:45] <RikusW> s/on/no
[16:49:46] <Jan-> so if I want PB0 and PB1 to be ins, and everything else to be outs, I'd set DDRB=0x3F?
[16:50:03] <RikusW> 0xFC
[16:50:37] <Jan-> s...sorry
[16:50:39] <Jan-> wha?
[16:50:49] <RikusW> DDRB=0xFC;
[16:50:50] <OndraSterver> <OndraSterver> endiannes makes no difference on single byte operations
[16:50:57] <OndraSterver> this was the s/on/no
[16:51:00] <Jan-> Bah that's still backwards.
[16:51:08] <OndraSterver> PB0 = bit zero, PB1 = bit one
[16:51:10] <Jan-> And I thought 0 was out and 1 was in
[16:51:15] <OndraSterver> 1 is out
[16:51:22] <Jan-> muttergrumble
[16:52:46] <Jan-> so if I wanted, say, only 3 and 4 to be outs, I'd set DDRB = 0xC
[16:53:06] <OndraSterver> 1 << 3 | 1 << 4
[16:53:08] <OndraSterver> best way to write it
[16:53:23] * megal0maniac agrees
[16:53:29] <Jan-> so what's 1 << 3 | 1 << 4
[16:53:38] <OndraSterver> 1 shifted to the left by 3 times
[16:53:42] <OndraSterver> OR
[16:53:46] <OndraSterver> 1 shifted to the left by 4 times
[16:53:50] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I hope the 2n7002 works. I've bought 20 of them now :P
[16:53:50] <Jan-> I know but what does it calculate to be
[16:53:54] <OndraSterver> thus it becomes 00001100
[16:54:07] <Jan-> which is 0xC
[16:54:11] <Jan-> or er
[16:54:11] <Jan-> twelve
[16:54:19] <OndraSterver> except that the 1 << 3 | 1 << 4 is much more readable
[16:54:25] <Jan-> yers.
[16:54:37] <Jan-> does it zero the ports fo ryou at power up or shoudl I explicitly zero them
[16:54:52] <OndraSterver> check datasheet, it is all there. Both PORT and DDR registers are 0
[16:55:05] <Jan-> no harm in setting it though
[16:55:17] <OndraSterver> waste of precious space
[16:55:27] <OndraSterver> 1kB on tiny13a = 512 instructions
[16:55:28] <OndraSterver> MAX
[16:55:40] <Jan-> yikes. That's small.
[16:55:49] <megal0maniac> Hence my asking
[16:56:01] <Jan-> I guess that's why they were cheap. :/
[16:56:15] <megal0maniac> t85 is cheap too
[16:56:27] <Jan-> Oh well, I have these now
[16:56:31] <Jan-> Let's see if we can make it work
[16:56:33] <Jan-> sounds reasonable
[16:56:41] <RikusW> megal0maniac: only 20 ? thats only a FEW...
[16:56:45] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, I still feel like the 85's price is an error
[16:56:55] <OndraSterver> just as the xmega256a3u's was
[16:57:04] * RikusW have 100 of them
[16:57:10] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I only need like 4 :)
[16:57:12] <OndraSterver> has*
[16:57:27] <Jan-> I get the impression these 13As are intended for smart battery packs and the like
[16:57:34] <RikusW> its cheap, who cares
[16:57:39] <OndraSterver> there are even smaller ones, Jan-
[16:57:45] <Amadiro> Jan-, tiny chips like that typically only have a few simple functions, yes
[16:57:51] <OndraSterver> I thought about adding "universal voltage shifter" for xboard as "shield" below it - but I would not be able to be sure that the 3v3 is the "low" side :
[16:57:52] <OndraSterver> :)
[16:57:57] <RikusW> build another translator ;)
[16:57:59] <Amadiro> Jan-, but you can always network more of them together if you want to
[16:58:20] <Jan-> via SPI maybe
[16:58:24] <Jan-> that would be hilarious
[16:58:27] <Jan-> multicore attiny13a
[16:58:44] <Jan-> although this is actually a very simple project: detect an audio level, fire off a burst of 40khz IR.
[16:58:44] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I'll build a few :)
[16:58:50] <Jan-> Sounds doable on a tiny mcu
[16:59:16] <megal0maniac> Jan-: Should be just fine. But nothing is stopping you from getting more in future :P
[16:59:27] <RikusW> 1 << 3 | 1 << 4 == 0x18 NOT 0x0C
[16:59:28] <Jan-> I have an atmega168 spare
[16:59:32] <Jan-> but that's sort of the other end of the world :)
[16:59:37] <megal0maniac> Jan-: I tend to recommend mega328p and tiny85 to EVERYONE
[16:59:58] <Amadiro> Jan-, audio level?
[17:00:00] <Jan-> I was looking at 85s for something else.
[17:00:00] <megal0maniac> Jan-: And then get a U2S board from RikusW :P
[17:00:06] <Jan-> But these seemed cheeap
[17:00:08] <OndraSterver> or xboard from me
[17:00:11] <Amadiro> Jan-, like the voltage of an audio-line?
[17:00:16] <megal0maniac> That too :)
[17:00:16] <OndraSterver> I have got last one stocked atm!
[17:00:22] <Jan-> we have a mic and preamp all set up and ready to go
[17:00:23] <OndraSterver> I have three completed ones only :D
[17:00:27] <Jan-> I'm going to use the analog comparator
[17:00:28] <OndraSterver> and one is for my development
[17:00:30] <megal0maniac> Where'd no 2 go?
[17:00:33] <megal0maniac> AH
[17:00:45] <megal0maniac> Thought you'd sold another one
[17:00:50] <OndraSterver> nope :(
[17:00:54] <megal0maniac> I'm getting impatient :)
[17:00:55] <OndraSterver> I will probably order from mouser another batch of stuff, but without xmegas.. yet!
[17:01:03] <OndraSterver> I have three 256a3us already prepared and soldered
[17:01:04] <Amadiro> Jan-, how is it going to work with a comparator? Wouldn't you want to measure the voltage and smooth it out over time, to determine the average volume?
[17:01:14] <OndraSterver> but I don't have ESD protectors, v-regs, usb connectors and polyfuses
[17:01:48] <Jan-> No, I need to hear an event
[17:01:52] <Jan-> a loud bang
[17:01:59] <OndraSterver> that is simple
[17:02:01] <OndraSterver> use 32V power supply
[17:02:04] <OndraSterver> and hook capacitor to it
[17:02:06] <OndraSterver> THE OPPOSITE WAY!
[17:02:07] <OndraSterver> bang!
[17:02:11] <OndraSterver> Lol
[17:02:14] <megal0maniac> YAY!
[17:02:17] <Jan-> OK, um, I'm trying to modify Tom_itx's tutorials for counters to work on this tiny13A
[17:02:18] <OndraSterver> it is one-time bang only though
[17:02:26] <megal0maniac> (Electrolytic)
[17:02:39] <OndraSterver> of course
[17:02:39] <Jan-> it seems pretty different
[17:02:47] <OndraSterver> but even foil caps make nice sound when overvoltaged :)
[17:02:51] <Amadiro> Jan-, ah, okay. I guess a comparator should do the trick, then
[17:02:53] <OndraSterver> but the PSU has to be current limited
[17:03:01] <OndraSterver> to make it sing longer
[17:03:01] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, I love connecting foil caps to mains
[17:03:04] <OndraSterver> lol
[17:03:12] <OndraSterver> I had them in SMPS supply for nixies
[17:03:16] <OndraSterver> and I didn't realize I had 63V ones
[17:03:22] <OndraSterver> but it was current limited to 1A or so
[17:03:31] <Jan-> tom talks about TCCR1B on the mega168
[17:03:40] <Jan-> whereas I think I'd need TCCR0A on the tiny13a
[17:03:41] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: YOU HAVE NIXIES??
[17:03:42] <OndraSterver> so once I removed the limiter it sang for like 2 secs and then made black spot on my breadboard
[17:03:42] <Jan-> does that sound right?
[17:03:46] <OndraSterver> megal0maniac, yes
[17:03:54] <OndraSterver> sold 8 bigger ones, still have 7 or 6 smaller ones
[17:03:56] <megal0maniac> Lucky bugger
[17:03:58] <OndraSterver> lol
[17:04:10] <Amadiro> I have a bunch of nixies too
[17:04:11] <OndraSterver> I don't have any use for them
[17:04:14] <Amadiro> not sure what to do with them yet
[17:04:15] <OndraSterver> I wanted to build a clock
[17:04:16] <OndraSterver> but meh
[17:04:18] <OndraSterver> can't be bothered
[17:04:23] <megal0maniac> Can your nixies be my nixies?
[17:04:26] <OndraSterver> hmm
[17:04:32] <OndraSterver> you should have asked that before I sent xboard :D
[17:04:33] <Amadiro> megal0maniac, you can just buy them online
[17:04:51] <megal0maniac> Amadiro: I never said anything about paying for it :P
[17:04:51] <OndraSterver> no idea for how much they sell on ebay
[17:04:54] <OndraSterver> haha
[17:04:56] <OndraSterver> no
[17:04:59] <RikusW> megal0maniac: what do you want to do with nixie tubes ?
[17:05:05] <Amadiro> they are not that expensive, really
[17:05:08] <OndraSterver> I set too low price for the bigger ones :(
[17:05:11] <OndraSterver> about $8
[17:05:19] <Amadiro> the biggest ones are like 12$ for a tube, but those are pretty big
[17:05:24] <OndraSterver> those were huge 4cm numbers, about 6cm nixies
[17:05:27] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I just like the way they look. But I hear they're a mission to drive
[17:05:28] <OndraSterver> maybe bigger
[17:05:38] <OndraSterver> I still have +-~ symbol from them :P
[17:05:43] <OndraSterver> it was from some old instrument
[17:05:45] <OndraSterver> brb
[17:05:51] <RikusW> quite high volts involved...
[17:05:59] <Jan-> are the timers on this tiny AVR likely t owork in anythiung like the same way as the big one
[17:06:09] * megal0maniac doesn't like high volts :)
[17:06:26] <megal0maniac> I'm off. Gn all
[17:06:35] <megal0maniac> Good luck Jan-
[17:06:47] <RikusW> good night
[17:06:51] * RikusW is feeling sleepy
[17:07:46] <Jan-> can I actually use the timers *without* toggling the pins they're usually connected to?
[17:07:49] <Jan-> or is that mandatory
[17:07:53] * megal0maniac is leaving too [can't log off IRSSI]
[17:08:24] <OndraSterver> daddy's back
[17:08:44] <OndraSterver> Jan-, you can
[17:08:54] <OndraSterver> just do not enable OC* outputs
[17:08:59] <Jan-> I have to set something in the timer/counter control register to turn it off
[17:09:21] <OndraSterver> I wanted to build programmable SMPS controller from at(x)mega, but once I figured what is the maximum switching speed I said "meh" :(
[17:09:24] <Jan-> setting the two msb to 00 seems to turn it off.
[17:09:34] <OndraSterver> actually, you have to SET something to turn it ON
[17:09:38] <OndraSterver> so just don't set it :P
[17:11:14] <Jan-> I may also have to set a WGM register
[17:11:18] <Jan-> which has to do with PWM
[17:11:20] <Jan-> which I don't want
[17:14:36] <Jan-> hm
[17:17:46] <Jan-> it seems that on the tiny13A, the LSB of TCCR0B selects the un-divided system clock as the timer's clock source
[17:17:49] <Jan-> does that sound reasonable
[17:18:16] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:18:53] <Jan-> so if I wanted a 40khz square wave, I might set TCCR0B to 0x1 then set the timer register itself to, er, 15
[17:18:59] <Jan-> then it'll go once every 240 clocks
[17:19:04] <Jan-> which at 9.6mhz would give me 40khz
[17:19:06] <Jan-> ...right?
[17:19:36] <Jan-> or I could set OCR0A to 240.
[17:19:40] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:19:44] <OndraSterver> and CTC mode or whichever it is
[17:19:54] <OndraSterver> that resets at OC0A compare match
[17:20:48] <Jan-> and i'd need to set OCIE0A which is timer compare match interrupt enable
[17:21:03] <Jan-> which is part of TIMSK0
[17:21:07] <OndraSterver> and overflow
[17:21:10] <OndraSterver> so you can reset the pin
[17:21:24] <Jan-> well I want a 50% duty cycle wave
[17:21:31] <Jan-> so maybe I need to do this at half the frequency actually
[17:21:43] <Jan-> but let's just get the pin toggling for now eh :)
[17:22:45] <Jan-> bit 2 enables compare match A interrupts
[17:22:54] <Jan-> so I'd state TIMSK0 = 1 << 2?
[17:24:18] <OndraSterver> 1 << OC0AIE or something
[17:24:22] <OndraSterver> I don't know what is the name of the bit
[17:24:28] <Jan-> oh.
[17:24:30] <OndraSterver> avoid using numbers when you can use definitions from headers
[17:24:43] <Jan-> sure of course I just didn't know they'd put all that in the headers
[17:24:48] <Jan-> that must be a huge header
[17:25:21] <Jan-> OCIE0A is what you were looking for :)
[17:25:33] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:25:47] <OndraSterver> header file for tiny13 is small
[17:25:53] <OndraSterver> header file for mega1280 is big
[17:26:00] <OndraSterver> header file for xmega a1u is huge
[17:26:05] <OndraSterver> that is not hand written anymore for sure
[17:26:07] <Jan-> but I'd just set OCR0A = 240 in decimal
[17:26:07] <OndraSterver> maybe once
[17:26:10] <Jan-> since that's task specific?
[17:26:14] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:26:19] <OndraSterver> and ocr0b to 120
[17:26:23] <OndraSterver> to get 50% duty cycle
[17:26:49] <Jan-> right
[17:27:23] <Jan-> well I could just set it to 120 and toggle the pin
[17:27:28] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:27:40] <OndraSterver> both 120 and 240 pointing to the same ISR
[17:27:50] <OndraSterver> which just writes 1 to the PIN register to the correct bit
[17:27:59] <OndraSterver> writing to PIN on output toggles the PORT status
[17:28:02] <Jan-> yeah I saw that
[17:29:11] <Jan-> I want CTC mode, then.
[17:29:29] <Jan-> So I need to set things in both TCCR0A and B
[17:29:37] <OndraSterver> I am afk
[17:29:41] <OndraSterver> yes
[17:29:43] <Jan-> I bet you're not.
[17:29:50] * Jan- superglues OndraSterver to the chair
[17:35:59] <Jan-> anyone who's out there: if the docs refer to an interrupt handler address as being "TIM0_COMPA", I'd use "TIM0_COMPA_vect" in C, right?
[17:42:04] <Jan-> okay, it's outputting approximately 40khz
[17:42:06] <Jan-> but it's sort of
[17:42:07] <Jan-> pulsing
[17:46:28] <OndraSterver> huh?
[17:47:40] <Jan-> I've done something stupid
[17:47:42] <Jan-> hold the phone
[17:47:52] * OndraSterver is holding the phone
[17:48:12] <Jan-> avr studio is crashing on launch
[17:50:06] <Jan-> ok well this sucks
[17:51:31] <OndraSterver> you broke it!
[17:55:40] <Jan-> right let's see if a reboot cleared the problem
[17:55:52] <Jan-> ...yes it did
[17:58:17] <OndraSterver> damnit, why did I throw away the motor from the vacuum cleaner
[17:59:15] <Tom_itx> cause you saw no useful purpose for it
[17:59:47] <OndraSterver> back in the day... no
[17:59:54] <OndraSterver> it was also fairly worn out
[17:59:58] <OndraSterver> it had good 10 years of use I think
[18:00:35] <Jan-> ok so er
[18:01:01] <Jan-> this ideally-40khz square wave is, according to our possibly grotesquely out of calibration frequency counter, at 37.5khz.
[18:01:09] <Jan-> is it likely that the avr's internal clock is that far out
[18:01:23] <Jan-> I mean this counter is 15 years out of cal
[18:01:25] <Jan-> it could be that
[18:01:45] <OndraSterver> the internal RC is 1% or so calibrated
[18:01:48] <OndraSterver> check datasheet
[18:02:00] <Jan-> OK this is way more than 1% out
[18:02:10] <OndraSterver> could be the counter
[18:02:16] <Jan-> could be.
[18:02:16] <OndraSterver> I have got even older counter
[18:02:21] <OndraSterver> not sure how much off the drift it is
[18:02:25] <Jan-> this is a marconi 2432A
[18:02:34] <OndraSterver> I have got Philips something, similar to one that Mike took apart
[18:02:37] <OndraSterver> anyway
[18:02:37] <OndraSterver> too late
[18:02:40] <OndraSterver> gotta get up to school tomorrow
[18:02:41] <OndraSterver> bb
[18:02:45] <Jan-> ok have fun
[18:02:48] <Jan-> thanks for your help
[18:02:51] <OndraSterver> np
[18:02:59] <Jan-> I have achieved something anyway