#avr | Logs for 2012-09-10

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[00:30:46] <learningc> what chip do you guys use to convert usb->serial?
[00:31:57] <nickoe> Kevin`, did you get an answer to your rots question?
[00:33:38] <Casper> learningc: FT232 seems to be one of the most common
[00:34:01] <learningc> Casper: even the ft232, there are many versions
[00:34:13] <learningc> Casper: do you know the difference?
[00:34:24] <Casper> there is some table on their site
[00:35:34] <nickoe> *rtos
[00:46:02] <nickoe> Kevin`, sorry, I have to go.
[01:06:13] <skorket> If I were to make a continuity tester, the basic idea is to do an adc conversion off of a voltage divider and report 0-100 ohm resistance as 'continuous' and anything higher as discontinuous?
[01:06:46] <learningc> you don't even need that
[01:07:04] <skorket> yeah? What's the simpler solution?
[01:07:14] <learningc> a small battery and led?
[01:07:48] <Richard_Cavell> and resistor
[01:07:54] <learningc> yeah
[01:08:12] <learningc> but aren't there continuity tester on dmm?
[01:09:08] <RikusW> the diode test usually
[01:09:28] <skorket> I want to programmability do it. I would like to use the result in logic somewhere
[01:10:16] <Richard_Cavell> Use the LED method, attach a small CCD camera to assess whether the LED is on or off
[01:11:11] <skorket> that seems like overkill
[01:11:33] <skorket> If you went that route, then either an LED and a photoresistor or an optocoupler seems the better way to go
[01:12:00] <learningc> why not just use you dmm ohmmeter? there are better things to program
[01:12:04] <Richard_Cavell> I'm just being silly
[01:12:07] <learningc> your*
[01:12:35] <skorket> ah, sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate when you don't have intonation of voice
[01:13:15] <skorket> learningc, I just told you, I want to use the result programmatically
[01:13:28] <learningc> ah ok
[01:13:50] <Richard_Cavell> So yeah voltage divider and measure the voltage of the part being tested
[01:14:10] <learningc> you can also use the comparator
[01:14:15] <Richard_Cavell> Analogue to digital converter or would you be happier with a digital result?
[01:16:46] <skorket> hmm, not sure. How would you get a digital result?
[01:16:57] <skorket> and what's the comparator?
[01:17:40] <Richard_Cavell> I don't know what the comparator is. You'd have to work out what your reference voltage drop is
[01:18:12] <Richard_Cavell> For example, if it's over 0.7 volts it will activate a silicon transistor
[01:21:12] <RikusW> a
[01:21:33] <skorket> I see
[01:23:09] <RikusW> a/me couldn't understand why Line Out didn't work, seems the audio header needs 2 jumpers..... problem solved
[01:24:13] <OndraSterver> wow, quiet today
[01:24:18] <OndraSterver> and I am up today ... SO EARLY!
[01:33:04] <OndraSterver> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/11/03/calxeda-launches-a-4-core-arm-server-chip/
[01:33:07] <OndraSterver> they stole my idea:(
[01:33:55] <Roklobsta> your idea was a 4 core avr chip
[01:34:48] <OndraSterver> lol
[01:35:23] <OndraSterver> AVR would have one advantage: one could put itn 2880 cores instead 288
[01:35:30] <OndraSterver> and it still would cost 1/10th :P
[01:35:50] <OndraSterver> for static pages lovely
[01:36:32] <Roklobsta> so how good is an arm doing bloody interpreted code or bytecode like bloaty slow python/php/ruby/java/whatever?
[01:36:56] <Roklobsta> watt for watt is an x86 still better?
[01:38:49] <vsync_> probably
[01:40:27] <OndraSterver> I thought it is not anymore?
[01:40:34] <OndraSterver> because these ARMs have 5W
[01:40:36] <OndraSterver> each
[01:40:43] <OndraSterver> and can put out a lot of perfomance
[01:41:20] <Roklobsta> yeah but small cache vs large mega cache on x86 i dunno.
[01:42:56] <OndraSterver> hmm
[01:43:39] <OndraSterver> the problem is the price
[01:43:46] <OndraSterver> these servers won't be cheap
[01:43:48] <OndraSterver> far from that
[01:46:08] <vsync_> well, to me it still sounds like a bit of a niche thing
[01:46:20] <vsync_> an arm server that is
[01:47:44] <OndraSterver> sorry my n00biness, but niche = ? :)
[01:49:08] <vsync_> well in this context, a fancy trick
[01:49:16] <OndraSterver> oh
[01:52:02] <OndraSterver> but it costs you ARM and... a leg :)
[01:52:38] <OndraSterver> (I had to :D)
[01:53:10] <vsync_> lame!
[01:53:24] <vsync_> Could probably get some boards with a kidney...
[01:53:41] <vsync_> no-one needs two, afterall
[01:55:14] <Casper> isn't the kidney the one that can regenerate itself?
[01:55:37] <vsync_> no that's the liver
[01:55:58] <Casper> that's was answer B :D
[01:56:14] <vsync_> kidneys are those small things that look like beans. You've got two of them. Unless somebody got to you first before I'm going to.
[01:56:50] <Casper> ... look at my nick...
[01:56:55] <OndraSterver> I have always messed kidneys and livers
[01:56:59] <OndraSterver> for me they are the same
[01:57:02] <OndraSterver> ... just some parts
[01:57:26] <vsync_> Casper yeah, remember that show :)
[01:57:48] <Casper> ow well, I shall go to bed... I'll probably get woke up early...
[01:58:34] <Casper> like saturday... 6am... pee time... 6:30am, just as I fell asleep.... BADANG! someone threw something in the container beside my window...
[01:58:51] <OndraSterver> eh
[01:59:03] <OndraSterver> was it some computer or anything that one can take apart?:P
[01:59:12] <OndraSterver> I today woke up so soon!
[01:59:14] <OndraSterver> 0800
[01:59:19] <OndraSterver> I said woke up, I still haven't got up
[01:59:25] <vsync_> closing in on 10 am here
[01:59:35] <vsync_> i'm drinking a beer
[01:59:39] <OndraSterver> heh
[01:59:40] <vsync_> a good start for the day
[02:00:04] <RikusW> OndraSterver: niche == specialized
[02:00:04] <OndraSterver> (nobody likes AM/PM really, real people use 24 hour mode since a day has 24 hours)
[02:00:09] <OndraSterver> RikusW, I see
[02:00:28] <vsync_> OndraSterver yeah, i'm not american either. It's just out of a habit
[02:00:39] <Casper> btw, does anyone know how I can figure out if the return dock for central heating is mandatory or not?
[02:01:07] <Casper> my cousin get her house built, they just made holes in the walls and floors/ceiling to let the air move
[02:01:11] <Casper> for the return
[02:01:21] <Casper> I'm pretty sure it's not conform
[02:01:28] <Casper> as it can't be cleaned up
[02:02:51] * RikusW goes to install some jumpers on the front panel audio header....
[02:03:32] <OndraSterver> why is he turning off computer to install some jumpers?
[02:03:33] <OndraSterver> :D
[02:03:53] <Roklobsta> maybe the jumpers shorted out something
[02:04:04] <OndraSterver> no
[02:04:08] <OndraSterver> that would be ping timeout
[02:04:24] <Roklobsta> pedantic nerd
[02:04:25] <Casper> maybe he just don't want to take any chance
[02:04:29] <OndraSterver> he
[02:04:30] <OndraSterver> heh
[02:04:40] <Casper> or that he need to remove some cards
[02:04:58] <OndraSterver> hmmm
[02:05:08] <OndraSterver> why would anyone need jumpers for front audio anyway
[02:05:41] <Casper> because some board do not do any detection to see if you actually connected the front panel audio connector
[02:05:45] <OndraSterver> I shall stop speculating NOW
[02:05:48] <Roklobsta> i only wear jumpers in winter
[02:05:53] <Casper> in this case, you have no audio on the rear
[02:10:38] <OndraSterver> time to get up
[02:10:39] <OndraSterver> maybe
[02:10:42] <OndraSterver> or fall asleep again
[02:10:48] <OndraSterver> 0900 is still quite early for me
[03:13:55] <OndraSterver> damnit, do I look like I have two working USB B cables? :(
[05:44:10] <Richard_Cavell> RikusW: Hi
[05:44:13] <RikusW> hi
[05:44:26] <RikusW> so if it actually is 68k I could send it over ?
[05:44:34] <Richard_Cavell> Ha ha
[05:44:44] <Richard_Cavell> Sure. But don't worry, they're available on ebay etc
[05:44:44] <RikusW> it would take me a massive amount of effort to use those....
[05:45:05] <Richard_Cavell> They're great chips. I love them.
[05:45:13] <Richard_Cavell> I learned how to program 68k assembly 20 years ago
[05:45:29] <RikusW> on those tiny single box apples ?
[05:46:00] <Richard_Cavell> Nope
[05:46:01] <Richard_Cavell> Amiga
[05:46:22] <Richard_Cavell> I've been looking for some sort of video display chip analogous to the 6845
[05:46:34] <Richard_Cavell> But they aren't manufactured any more and in any case video display technology has moved on
[05:46:44] * RikusW wonders how close the 6502 instruction set is to 68k ?
[05:46:54] <Richard_Cavell> not much
[05:47:16] <RikusW> but its from around the same time ?
[05:47:42] * RikusW played on a 8088 in 1988
[05:48:46] <RikusW> 6845 sounds familiar, isn't those used in the CGA cards ?
[05:48:56] <RikusW> *aren't
[05:50:29] <RikusW> I still have a few working small CGA cards and a screen around, maybe I should interface that to AVR sometime :)
[05:50:40] <karlp> cyan for the win
[05:52:09] <Vutral> fucking shit
[05:52:20] <Vutral> i need a sample avr-gcc project
[05:52:31] <Vutral> i still dont know howto link the stuff properly ^^
[05:52:38] <Vutral> my hex file looks too small
[05:53:26] <RikusW> how small ?
[05:53:55] <Vutral> 189 byte
[05:54:33] <Vutral> the elf file was 3.6kb
[05:56:49] <RikusW> might be right
[05:56:57] <RikusW> the elf file contains a lot of headers
[05:57:57] <Vutral> something must be missing anyway
[05:58:00] <Vutral> it should generate a sinusoidal modulated pwm
[05:59:39] <RikusW> could be a bug in your code
[05:59:46] <Vutral> na i dont think so
[05:59:49] <RikusW> try a blinking led one first
[05:59:58] <Vutral> its for a attiny85
[06:01:59] <Vutral> maybe i expect it to trigger the wrong port
[06:07:45] <Vutral> RikusW, main program contains an array with 256 values
[06:07:59] <Vutral> but hexfile is 189 byte ^^
[06:08:46] <Vutral> 256 values uint8_t
[06:09:32] <RikusW> hmm thats sounds wrong then
[06:09:45] <Vutral> yes
[06:10:01] <RikusW> hex should be > 320 at least
[06:10:19] <Vutral> mhm
[06:10:25] <Vutral> i need another objcopy syntax
[06:10:26] <Vutral> i guess
[06:10:30] <Vutral> you got an example maybe ?
[06:10:38] <RikusW> * > 600
[06:10:51] <Vutral> mhm ?
[06:10:54] <RikusW> man obj-copy
[06:11:09] <RikusW> or maybe avr-objcopy --help
[06:11:19] <karlp> objcopy -O ihex blah.elf..
[06:11:22] <karlp> there's not much too it,
[06:11:33] <Vutral> i did that
[06:11:44] <Vutral> so maybe something is wrong with the elf file already
[06:11:55] <karlp> right, but really, if you're having problems linking and using objecopy, are you really sure that you don't have _anytthing_ wrong with your code?
[06:13:50] <Vutral> the code is right
[06:13:55] <Vutral> the makefile was wrong
[06:13:57] <Vutral> :P
[06:14:11] <Vutral> thanks anyway
[06:18:05] <Vutral> so now still it doesnt include iotn5x.h
[06:21:11] <karlp> -mcpu=blah....?
[06:33:29] <Vutral> karlp, i use -mmcu
[06:34:34] <Vutral> -mcpu is not known
[07:09:08] <RikusW> -mmcu sounds right
[07:30:37] <MrTrick> Is the AVR ASF for 32-bit processors only? Or does it support the 8-bit megas and tinys?
[07:31:42] <MrTrick> oh wait, I should read the website. ^_^ http://www.atmel.com/microsite/atmel_studio6/software.aspx
[07:37:05] <OndraSterver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuTnaB5Q7DQ&feature=related
[07:37:05] <OndraSterver> LOL
[07:42:32] <Vutral> mhm
[07:42:37] <Vutral> i measure ohne 2khz on the pwm
[07:42:39] <Vutral> what could be wrong
[07:49:18] <nickoe> Does a optiboot_atmega1280.hex work on a atmega2580?
[08:17:56] <Vutral> karlp, maybe
[10:57:29] <OndraSterver> omg gcc
[10:57:31] <OndraSterver> a) it produces awful code
[10:57:42] <OndraSterver> b) the one line I want it to see how it compiled it does not show in the .lss file
[10:57:45] <OndraSterver> omg omg
[10:58:14] <OndraSterver> http://pastebin.com/7TAThhMY
[10:58:15] <OndraSterver> :(
[10:59:28] <OndraSterver> also
[10:59:29] <OndraSterver> if (i % 2 == 1) // IN
[10:59:31] <OndraSterver> could be written as
[11:00:01] <OndraSterver> sbrs rx, 1
[11:00:08] <OndraSterver> rjmp something
[11:00:10] <OndraSterver> :(
[11:00:47] <LoRez> patch gcc, submit patch, stop bitching
[11:01:01] <OndraSterver> heh
[11:01:17] <LoRez> or figure out the idiom in gcc c that works out better
[11:01:26] <LoRez> what -O level are you using?
[11:01:44] <OndraSterver> -O1, -O2 and -O3 make zero difference
[11:02:15] <LoRez> -Os?
[11:02:21] <OndraSterver> I lied, it was another project I tested it on
[11:02:35] <LoRez> on avrs 's' is probably useful
[11:02:35] <OndraSterver> -O3 fixes it
[11:02:44] <LoRez> to what?
[11:02:53] <OndraSterver> sts 0x2002, 0
[11:02:58] <OndraSterver> all those 10 instructions
[11:04:09] <LoRez> I'm guessing all of those instructions are in case usb_ram moves? or is that just to find the structure member?
[11:04:16] <OndraSterver> usb_ram does not move
[11:04:23] <OndraSterver> no idea why it did what it did
[11:05:27] <OndraSterver> still there are some stuff that it won't optimalize on -O3
[11:16:35] <RikusW> OndraSterver: so you finally realize avr-gcc isn't perfect :-P
[11:16:41] <OndraSterver> I know it for a long time
[11:16:46] * RikusW too
[11:16:57] <RikusW> I'd rather use AVR asm
[11:17:04] <OndraSterver> but writing USB stuff is not really fun in asm :/
[11:17:07] <OndraSterver> for me that is
[11:17:18] <RikusW> its not that bad
[11:17:22] <Steffanx> Some like to repeat their opinion every day/hour, RikusW :P
[11:18:18] <RikusW> :-P
[11:19:41] <OndraSterver> hmm editing the stuck atmel's USB Flip DFU will not be fun either, it is mixed C with assembly, no bitmasks but raw numbers
[11:19:47] <OndraSterver> LDI R16,0x18
[11:19:50] <OndraSterver> STS ISP_PORT_PINCTRL, R16
[11:19:53] <OndraSterver> yeah, what is 0x18? <searching in the manual>
[11:19:58] <OndraSterver> bloody thing
[11:20:10] <OndraSterver> why not use PIN_IS_AWESOME_bm instead...
[11:56:27] <megal0maniac> OndraSterver: Because Atmel doesn't care about you
[11:58:12] <RikusW> Steffanx: :-D http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262857_131834196909125_8246658_n.jpg
[11:58:30] <Steffanx> P:
[11:59:30] <RikusW> unfortunately the English only guys won't quite understand...
[11:59:38] <megal0maniac> Is Steffanx ook Afrikaans? Of is "Nederlander" goed genoeg? :P
[11:59:47] <Steffanx> Dutch it is
[11:59:48] <RikusW> good enough it seems ;)
[12:00:44] <megal0maniac> My knowledge of Afrikaans is full of giant holes. I had loads of fun in Afrikaans class, but I wasn't learning anything...
[12:00:55] <RikusW> too bad
[12:01:52] <RikusW> megal0maniac: at least you get the pun in the photo ?
[12:03:01] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Only when I looked up "wyser" :P
[12:03:03] <specing> Afrikaaaans sounds nice
[12:03:19] <megal0maniac> specing: Can you roll your r's?
[12:03:47] <specing> what?
[12:04:01] <RikusW> for the rest, let google translate sonder wyser --> without pointer....
[12:04:11] <RikusW> onderwyser = teacher
[12:05:07] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I stayed in Bredasdorp for 7 years, so my R's isn't quite what is should be
[12:05:34] <specing> RikusW: lol
[12:05:41] <specing> LOL
[12:05:55] <megal0maniac> BRRRRRedasdorp :)
[12:06:01] <RikusW> megal0maniac: Thats quite close to CT
[12:06:04] * megal0maniac rolls R
[12:06:28] <megal0maniac> Closer than Warden :P
[12:06:51] <RikusW> the town was named after a guy named Breda (dorp = town)
[12:06:54] <specing> Bredasderp?
[12:07:25] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I'm about 1500km away from you
[12:07:35] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Congratulations. I officially prefer using the U2S over the dedicated programmer I bought when I started with AVR.
[12:07:38] <RikusW> well a bit closer now
[12:07:47] <RikusW> good :)
[12:08:12] <megal0maniac> I was born in Kimberley. Some family still lives there, going in December
[12:08:20] <megal0maniac> That's a LOT closer
[12:08:23] <RikusW> so how much flashing did you do to date ? ;)
[12:08:34] <megal0maniac> With AVRs?
[12:08:39] <RikusW> yes
[12:08:48] <RikusW> quite close to Bloemfontein actually :)
[12:08:56] <specing> I haven't flashed an AVR in over a month
[12:08:58] * specing hides
[12:09:05] <RikusW> bad boy :-P
[12:09:11] <megal0maniac> Heh. Not that much actually. But about to tackle that picoboard protocol in a few mins
[12:10:00] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I spoke to my friend from Stellenbosch, but he doesn't know anyone who'd be interested (that he knows of)
[12:10:11] <megal0maniac> Will take it to UCT on Friday though.
[12:11:01] <RikusW> nice :)
[12:26:07] <RikusW> stroh rum ----> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/c0.0.290.290/p403x403/561758_152415798229481_2089897822_n.jpg
[12:29:44] <CoolBear> Wet pussy ----> http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/YZA73.png
[12:33:37] <theBear> mmmm, stroh eh ? i gotta find me some
[12:33:56] <theBear> and that is a VERY small man
[12:36:46] <spillere> i have an atmega8 with an external clock of 16mhz. anywhere i can find an example of a blink led in C with this confuration? or where do i setup the clock speed?
[12:39:01] <CoolBear> spillere: If you #include <util/delay.h> you can #define F_CPU 16000000 (do this before the include), then you can use _delay_ms(500); //for half a second delay.
[12:39:15] <specing> spillere: #include <util/delay.h> int main() { DDRB = 0xFF; while (1) { PORTB ^= 0xFF; _delay_us (500); } }
[12:39:44] <spillere> specing: do i need to set the F_CPI before?
[12:40:11] <CoolBear> You also need to set the fuses for external clock source.
[12:41:22] <spillere> the fuses is when programming right?
[12:41:38] <spillere> its my first program in c, trying to learn :)
[12:41:48] <spillere> wanna make a blink in the pin PC0
[12:41:51] <CoolBear> Are you using Atmel Studio 6?
[12:42:31] <spillere> no, im on a linux machine using tiny isp
[12:42:59] <theBear> good boy :)
[12:45:32] <CoolBear> spillere: Something like this: http://ideone.com/zgzuk
[12:46:12] <CoolBear> (Not tested though)
[12:47:45] <spillere> DDRC |= (1 << DDC0); sets it as outpput?
[12:47:51] <CoolBear> Aye
[12:48:19] <CoolBear> It's the same as saying DDRC = DDRC | (1 << DDC0)
[12:49:02] <CoolBear> DDRC is the Data Direction Register C
[12:49:27] <spillere> CoolBear: this is mine http://ideone.com/5ARvZ
[12:49:41] <CoolBear> If a bit in there is 0 the pin is input, if it's 1 the port is output.
[12:49:53] <spillere> i need to study more working with binary/hex/shifts
[12:50:35] <spillere> but the code is right, right? :)
[12:50:38] <CoolBear> Sure, that'll work.
[12:51:41] <spillere> now lets compile and try to burn
[12:51:49] <CoolBear> Is this a new chip?
[12:52:25] <spillere> yes
[12:52:37] <spillere> i need to set fuse before or when i program it?
[12:52:40] <xaxes> hello together :) yesterday I told about my mkI clone that only runs on 19200 baud .. RikusW, you told me that Im able to set the baudrate on the jtag programmer with an specific sequence.. I wrote a little tool which did it. I was able to verify it, so it was really set.. but I've recognized that this sequence is also used in avrdude if I use -b 115200 and there it freezes .. any ideas? http://paste.frubar.net/15118
[12:54:06] <CoolBear> spillere: Separate step, make sure your fuses are correct before changing them(the new ones), it's a tad harder to fix without a HVP programmer.
[12:54:35] <spillere> CoolBear: how do i check that?
[12:56:33] <spillere> avr-gcc -Wall -Os -DF_CPU=16000000 -mmcu=atmega8 -c blink.c -o blink.o
[12:56:41] <spillere> created the .o from the code
[12:57:37] <jacekowski> spillere: bear in mind that a lot of things you set in C is not changing hardware configuration but telling the compiler how is the hardware configured
[12:57:45] <CoolBear> avr-objcopy -j .text -j .data -O binary blink.o blink.bin
[12:58:02] <jacekowski> spillere: like that F_CPU for example - it's not changing frequency it's just letting compiler know that your crystal is a 16MHz one
[12:58:49] <spillere> jacekowski: so I need to set the fuse on the µC to set to 16mhz before programming it?
[12:59:07] <jacekowski> yes, kinda
[12:59:18] <jacekowski> in your case you will have to set fuse to make it run from external crystal
[12:59:51] <spillere> yeah, i shouldnt have soldered it hehe
[13:00:11] <CoolBear> You don't need to use the external crystal even if you have soldered it in place.
[13:00:26] <spillere> ahh, thats good
[13:00:42] <spillere> its soldered in place, with the two 22pF capacitors and all
[13:00:52] <spillere> so i dont need to bother? and take that part from the code?
[13:01:06] <jacekowski> well, depends on what are you trying to do
[13:01:11] <jacekowski> you can run AVR from internal oscillator
[13:01:19] <CoolBear> The atmega8 defaults to 1Mhz, so you can change the F_CPU to reflect that.
[13:01:21] <spillere> im just trying to make a blink led :)
[13:01:21] <jacekowski> which isn't as stable as crystal and has max speed of 8MHz
[13:01:30] <jacekowski> CoolBear: i though it's 4
[13:01:37] <spillere> it's 8
[13:01:44] <spillere> atmega8
[13:01:44] <OndraSterver> RikusW, how much are you familiar with the USB stack on AVR? I attach the device, set all registers. Windows says "unknown device" (since it doesn't send any data back), but nor the device receives any data. I tried both with and without FIFO
[13:01:45] <CoolBear> jacekowski: According to engbedded it's 1
[13:01:59] <CoolBear> jacekowski: Probably 8 divided by 8
[13:02:00] <OndraSterver> the sample CDC works
[13:02:21] <CoolBear> jacekowski: It's an older chip so it doesn't have the div8 fuse bit.
[13:02:21] <spillere> so I can simple comment '#define F_CPU 16000000' from my code, and i dont have to set any fuses?
[13:02:35] <OndraSterver> on trncompl event I shut down one LED, on busevent the other one. Neither of them appears :/
[13:02:39] <CoolBear> spillere: Make it #define F_CPU 1000000
[13:02:58] <spillere> ok!
[13:03:05] <spillere> ill recompile
[13:03:34] <CoolBear> If it blinks like crazy then I'm wrong about the default value ;P
[13:03:42] <spillere> hehehe, ok
[13:04:45] <spillere> ok .bin created
[13:04:55] <spillere> can i program it then?
[13:05:10] <CoolBear> Sure.
[13:06:07] <spillere> avrdude -c avrdude -c usbtiny -p atmega8 -U flash:w:blink.bin:i ?
[13:06:11] <spillere> ops
[13:06:15] <spillere> avrdude -c usbtiny -p atmega8 -U flash:w:blink.bin:i
[13:06:26] <spillere> like this?
[13:06:40] <spillere> so much new information
[13:08:56] <CoolBear> drop the :i on the end, it should be able to auto it.
[13:09:25] <CoolBear> (And the i says it's an intel hex, you have a binary file.
[13:09:54] <CoolBear> (If it fails you can use a :b instead)
[13:10:18] <spillere> ok
[13:10:42] <CoolBear> But it looks good.
[13:11:48] <spillere> CoolBear: well, the led lighted up, but its not blinking
[13:11:56] <spillere> PORTC = 0b00000000; shouldnt turn all off?
[13:13:04] <CoolBear> Yep. What did you set your F_CPU to?
[13:13:12] <karlp> what's DDRC default to?
[13:13:17] <CoolBear> 0
[13:14:44] <theBear> sidenote: remember fast flashing looks a lot like not flashing
[13:15:14] <spillere> yeah, maybe its fast flashing
[13:15:20] <spillere> #define F_CPU 1000000
[13:16:18] <CoolBear> And you did your delays with _delay_ms(500); not with _delay_us(500); ?
[13:16:43] <spillere> _delay_ms(500);
[13:18:01] <RikusW> OndraSterver: welcome to USB programming :-P
[13:18:10] <OndraSterver> USB scope anyone? :P
[13:18:13] <OndraSterver> or USB analyzer
[13:18:24] <spillere> http://ideone.com/WZ6iM
[13:18:30] <RikusW> if only one thing is slightly wrong it fails to enumerate, you probably removed too much stuff
[13:18:39] <OndraSterver> I have not removed anything
[13:18:39] <RikusW> OndraSterver: there is USB analyzers
[13:18:41] <OndraSterver> I wrote it all myslef
[13:18:44] <OndraSterver> I know
[13:18:46] <OndraSterver> but they are not cheap
[13:18:53] <RikusW> try a SW one like snoopy
[13:19:01] <RikusW> or was that snoopypro
[13:19:12] <OndraSterver> http://sourceforge.net/projects/usbsnoop/
[13:19:14] <OndraSterver> snoop :)
[13:19:30] <CoolBear> spillere: Hmm, I'd try setting the F_CPU to 8000000.
[13:19:33] <RikusW> HID is even harder to make work... there is _another_ descriptor for HID too
[13:19:39] <spillere> CoolBear will do that!
[13:19:50] <OndraSterver> thanks RikusW
[13:19:52] <OndraSterver> I will go for CDC
[13:20:00] <RikusW> uless just right XP says device not working properly...
[13:20:02] <CoolBear> spillere: That'd slow down your delays by 8.
[13:20:34] <RikusW> OndraSterver: I suggest you look at the working CDC packets and then at your own version's
[13:20:35] <OndraSterver> SUPPORTED OPERATING SYSTEMS:
[13:20:36] <OndraSterver> ==========================================================================
[13:20:36] <OndraSterver> Tested by the authors on Windows 98, Windows 2000.
[13:20:42] <OndraSterver> if only I had those!
[13:20:43] <OndraSterver> lol
[13:20:45] <RikusW> worked on XP for me
[13:20:47] <OndraSterver> I have got only w7 x64
[13:20:56] <RikusW> might be a problem...
[13:21:51] <specing> use usbmon on Linux
[13:22:08] <OndraSterver> <OndraSterver> I have got only w7 x64
[13:22:18] <OndraSterver> meh I will figure it out... hopefuly :D
[13:24:28] <RikusW> xaxes: maybe a bug in avrdude ?
[13:26:37] <xaxes> RikusW: maybe.. but I think it's more possible that I've made something wrong with my clone ;) Imagine the crystal wouldn't work correct, would there be a chance to use 19200 but not 115200? I mean I have NO problems with 19200 :)
[13:28:21] <CoolBear> spillere: How are we doing?
[13:28:38] <spillere> not blinking, i will try to change it for portB
[13:29:10] <spillere> http://ideone.com/z46w1
[13:30:15] <CoolBear> Blink on PB7?
[13:30:31] <spillere> want to blink on PB7
[13:31:12] <CoolBear> You could also set it to 0xFF, to blink all the PORTBs
[13:31:17] <xaxes> I think Im wrong, but I append a UL on the 8000 value for F_CPU
[13:31:36] <spillere> lets see if it changes anything
[13:31:41] <xaxes> maybe some compilers will react differently
[13:31:48] <spillere> 0x00 to turn off rught?
[13:31:53] <CoolBear> Sure.
[13:35:11] <CoolBear> Also try xaxes suggestion, it could be the compiler trying to be clever.
[13:35:36] <xaxes> somehow called "optimiziations" ^^
[13:35:42] <spillere> CoolBear: no luck, http://ideone.com/9QElT this is when i burn the code
[13:36:22] <spillere> wonder if isnt the 16mhz crystal that is troubling it
[13:37:16] <RikusW> xaxes: the error rate might be too high on 115200... did you use a 7.3 MHz crystal ?
[13:37:41] <xaxes> RikusW: Im using 8MHz crystal, but with a image that suggest to be compatible with 8MHz
[13:37:57] <RikusW> try a 7.3 one
[13:37:59] <xaxes> http://www.avrportal.com/?page=jtag (IsoJtagISP_1.5_8MHz)
[13:38:03] <CoolBear> spillere: It looks alright, and with 8Mhz in F_CPU you would see blinking even if the chip were running at 20Mhz.
[13:38:09] <RikusW> the atmel clone is supposed to run on 7.3
[13:38:11] <xaxes> RikusW: okay, Ill do it tomorrow
[13:38:18] <xaxes> aaah.. of course ..
[13:38:26] <xaxes> damnit :D Ill check it
[13:38:29] <RikusW> btw 19200 is quite enough for debugging
[13:38:46] <RikusW> 115200 is used for programming
[13:39:03] <RikusW> I think avrdude might automatically make the switch, not sure
[13:39:15] <xaxes> mhh, here it seems to be very very slow.. sometimes it gets into some libfunc.S files on a "while" and such things, which takes very very long to "finish"
[13:40:16] <RikusW> xaxes: you probably don't have mega32u2 around ?
[13:40:25] <xaxes> now, only mega16
[13:40:33] <xaxes> s/now/no/
[13:51:01] <xaxes> okay.. I've to go.. have a nice evening ;)
[13:51:20] <OndraSterver> nn
[14:08:27] <megal0maniac> Good to know that you can't kill an avr by connecting ISP the wrong way, even if the programmer supplies vtg :D
[14:08:31] <megal0maniac> Whoops
[14:09:17] <specing> You can't really kill it
[14:09:17] <CoolBear> I have fed 7v VCC to an AVR and it was chugging along as if nothing was wrong.
[14:11:26] <jacekowski> IIRC absolute maximum rating for AVR is somewhere around 10Vish
[14:14:11] <RikusW> megal0maniac: just DON"T interchange Vcc and Gnd, it will get how....
[14:14:30] <RikusW> if disconnected quickly enough it might survive
[14:14:52] <megal0maniac> That's difficult to do with a 6 pin connector :P
[14:17:46] <OndraSterver> it has clamping diodes :)
[14:20:09] <OndraSterver> THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! The RAM content, the register content, everything is set to the same as in the sample project
[14:20:14] <OndraSterver> but the transaction won't come through :(
[14:20:27] <OndraSterver> description request
[14:23:14] <megal0maniac> I see a pattern...
[14:24:31] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/YWXDmR4i
[14:25:06] <megal0maniac> Will post code tomorrow, if I don't figure it out before then. :)
[14:27:41] <megal0maniac> Connected a DS1307 with the wrong polarity once. Disconnected it when I started smelling burning plastic from a meter away. It lost the time, but it's still working 100%
[14:29:56] <OndraSterver> I found my pattern too
[14:29:58] <OndraSterver> I missed this bit
[14:29:59] <OndraSterver>  Bit 0 – USBSEN: USB Clock Source Enable
[14:29:59] <OndraSterver> Setting this bit enables the selected clock source for the USB device module.
[14:30:01] <OndraSterver> :(
[14:30:03] <OndraSterver> lol
[14:30:55] <megal0maniac> I found a pattern, but I don't know what it means yet :)
[14:31:03] <OndraSterver> still nothing for me though
[14:45:37] <OndraSterver> IT'S JUST IN!
[14:45:40] <OndraSterver> finally
[14:45:41] <OndraSterver> I have received
[14:45:43] <OndraSterver> packet!
[14:45:55] <OndraSterver> I forgot to load new calibration values for DFLL :D
[14:46:16] <megal0maniac> I receive packets every time. They're just wrong :P
[14:46:33] <OndraSterver> :D
[17:40:55] <bakers> On the ATTiny85 it can run at either 1mhz or 8mhz? How do you change which one it uses?
[17:43:15] <Amadiro> bakers, they can run on 20MHz and about any frequency below that
[17:43:44] <Amadiro> bakers, but the internal one is 12MHz or so (I'd guess)
[17:44:15] <Amadiro> There is a fuse you can set to change between using an internal clock source or an external
[17:44:45] <izua> which will brick your chip if you set it to a bad value
[17:44:57] <bakers> I've seen some arduino people talking about running different "cores" on different chips. Trying out different "cores"... what's a core in reference to an avr?
[17:46:48] <Amadiro> bakers, haven't heard the term yet (and I hang out with the arduino crown frequently) -- presumably they either mean the chip or the chips core architecture (8-bit AVR, 32-bit AVR, ARM, ...) although the latter seems somewhat unlikely, because arduinos only exist with one architecture
[17:46:57] <Amadiro> s/crown/crowd/
[17:47:58] <bakers> Amadiro: Something like this: http://code.google.com/p/arduino-tiny/
[17:49:10] <Amadiro> bakers, ah, yeah, I think what they are referring to is porting the arduino libraries to a given chipset
[17:49:18] <bakers> Ahhh ok
[17:49:40] <bakers> meaning function digitalRead() maps to this internal thing in the XYZ chip
[17:49:51] <bakers> sorta?
[17:49:56] <Amadiro> So it would appear that with "attiny core" they mean "the arduino core libraries, bootloader & IDE configuration files for the attiny"
[17:49:59] <Amadiro> yes.
[17:50:04] <bakers> ok
[17:51:11] <bakers> Is the bootloader burned everytime I upload a sketch to an arduino board via the IDE?
[17:51:25] <bakers> Or does it just upload the sketch binary
[17:52:11] <Amadiro> bakers, I think that depends on the arduino board. On the Leonardo, for instance, you will never overwrite the bootloader.
[17:52:28] <bakers> Amadiro: oh really?
[17:52:35] * bakers has a Leonardo sitting on his desk right now
[17:52:41] <Amadiro> It's simply an atmega32u4 chip which has a bootloader that interacts with avrdude via USB
[17:53:03] <Amadiro> OTOH the arduino tiny (or whatever it was called) has an external programmer, so I reckon it doesn't even have a bootloader on the chip itself
[17:53:14] <bakers> I could "upgrade" the bootloader on an Uno... or remove it entirely
[17:53:19] <bakers> but not on the Leonardo?
[17:54:13] <Amadiro> I don't really know how it works on the uno, the uno is a bit of a weird hybrid, it has two AVR chips on the board, one 8u2 which programs the main chip, and a atmega328 which is the mainchip, but I reckon the atmega328 has some sort of bootloader as well which is not overwritten... the firmware in the 8u2 is never touched, either way, and you can't reprogram it using the arduino IDE
[17:54:55] <Amadiro> bakers, you could upgrade it on all boards, though on the uno it'd probably be harder.. but if it goes wrong, you effectively brick your device, because you won't be able to reprogram it anymore without having an actual AVR programmer
[17:56:54] <Amadiro> yeah, looks like the atmega328 still has a bootloader, even though it's programmed through the 8u2... I guess the 8u2 only handles the USB, nothing else
[17:57:08] <Amadiro> so the 8u2 is probably effectively just a usb-to-rs232 converter
[17:57:57] <bakers> On the Uno
[17:58:09] <bakers> Ya that's true... the 8u2 just emulates the FTDI board
[17:58:17] <bakers> errr chip
[17:58:41] <bakers> Amadiro: Stop me if these are stupid questions... just trying to wrap my brain around a couple of things
[17:58:59] <Amadiro> bakers, sure thing.
[17:59:11] <bakers> ATTiny85 vs the Atmega328
[17:59:22] <bakers> both are 8bit
[17:59:31] <bakers> both have the same potential MHZ
[17:59:41] <bakers> Assuming they're running at the same MHZ are they the same "speed"
[17:59:46] <bakers> i.e. raw CPU power
[18:00:00] <bakers> vs the Atmega1280 etc
[18:00:10] <Amadiro> bakers, pretty much, but the atmega has way more ram, flash et cetera
[18:00:20] <bakers> Amadiro: But that's the primary different
[18:00:24] <bakers> not speed
[18:00:41] <bakers> i.e. it's not like intel which has an i3, i5, and i7
[18:00:42] <Amadiro> I haven't looked at any benchmarks though, the architecture used in the atmega could be somehow more efficient than the one in the attinys, I guess
[18:00:46] <bakers> all with different speeds
[18:01:07] <bakers> Functionally they're pretty close
[18:01:20] <bakers> no like the Mega2560 is 10x faster than an ATTiny
[18:02:20] <Amadiro> bakers, well, it's a microcontroller... speed is pretty much one of the least important things you consider.. The important bits are usually "does it have enough GPIO pins for my purpose?" "does it have enough SPI/I2C/I2S/UART/USART/USB/CAN/ETC devices for my purpose", "is the package small enough for my purposes", "is it easy enough to implement and program for my purposes", "is it energy-efficient enough for my purposes"
[18:03:06] <bakers> Got it
[18:03:11] <bakers> let me ask my question another way
[18:03:22] <Amadiro> bakers, for instance PICs are commonly acknowledged to have a way more inefficient architecture compared to AVRs, which gives them a big speed disadvantage at the same clocking frequencies, but they are still heavily used, because it's not really that important
[18:04:04] <bakers> If I had an application that was running on my mega2560 just fine... but I didn't need all the extra pins/flash/eeprom... can I assume that putting that on an ATTiny I'd get roughly the same performance?
[18:04:30] <bakers> Say something that was cpu intensive like voice processing or something
[18:04:41] <Amadiro> bakers, the main thing you'd want to watch out for are things like flash usage and ram usage.
[18:04:50] <bakers> Ok
[18:05:09] <Amadiro> bakers, you can't really do voice processing on either an atmega or attiny... you'd probably want an AVR32, ARM or at least xmega for that, I reckon...
[18:05:16] <bakers> Sure...
[18:06:13] <OndraSterver> xmega can do voice recording and playback without single CPU instruction after you set up few registers, btw :)
[18:06:42] <OndraSterver> MEGA and TINY have most (if not all) the instructions timing the same
[18:06:58] <OndraSterver> xmegas have somewhere extra clock delay or one clock less required for some heavier instructions
[18:07:48] <bakers> The leonardo runs an Atmega32U4... I think the U stands for USB
[18:07:51] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:07:54] <bakers> so the chip itself has built in USB stuff?
[18:07:57] <OndraSterver> and 4 in the end for 44pin package I think
[18:07:57] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:07:57] <bakers> low level stuff?
[18:08:00] <Amadiro> bakers, yes. It's quite a nice chip.
[18:08:03] <OndraSterver> physical layer
[18:08:11] <OndraSterver> and some stuff of logic level
[18:08:18] <OndraSterver> (not sure how much, I have never done USB on mega)
[18:08:23] <OndraSterver> I am now doing USB on xmega
[18:08:24] <bakers> OndraSterver: Can you elaborate
[18:08:28] <OndraSterver> on what?
[18:08:32] <Amadiro> bakers, well, it takes care of a lot of things for you, you basically just get a bunch of registers that you push into whatever you want to send, and interrupts
[18:08:49] <bakers> Sort of like a UART, but for USB
[18:08:49] <OndraSterver> Amadiro, if you use ASF or LUFA :)
[18:09:05] <OndraSterver> otherwise it gets more complex
[18:09:06] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, yes, that makes it very convenient of course
[18:09:13] <bakers> separates out the USB stuff from running on the raw CPU like you'd have to do on a 328?
[18:09:23] <OndraSterver> on 328 you can either:
[18:09:31] <OndraSterver> run V-USB aka virtual (software) USB implementation
[18:09:36] <OndraSterver> or
[18:09:40] <OndraSterver> use external chip aka FT232
[18:09:41] <OndraSterver> or similar
[18:09:48] <OndraSterver> which convert the USB into serial port
[18:09:52] <OndraSterver> regular UART
[18:09:57] <Amadiro> bakers, USB is very high-speed, so bitbanging it manually in software is very taxing, you can't typically get usb full-speed that way
[18:10:13] <OndraSterver> nope, only USB1.1 at 1.5Mbit
[18:10:13] <bakers> Amadiro: even at low speed
[18:10:15] <OndraSterver> check V-USB
[18:10:20] <Amadiro> bakers, as OndraSterver mentioned there are libraries like V-USB that do it, but they only do low-speed
[18:10:22] <OndraSterver> but you have to clock the MCU at 12MHz
[18:10:27] <bakers> Can you do 1.5Mbit in software?
[18:10:29] <OndraSterver> which draws the CPU perfomance down
[18:10:30] <OndraSterver> no
[18:10:40] <bakers> Oh I see
[18:10:56] <bakers> Like for example being a USB keyboard
[18:11:00] <bakers> has to be super low bandwidth
[18:11:12] <OndraSterver> check V-USB website
[18:11:13] <Amadiro> bakers, It's much preferrable to do it in hardware, really... but if you really want to, even the small attiny ones can do USB low-speed with V-USB
[18:11:22] <OndraSterver> I can't tell you more about it, I have never used it
[18:11:30] <bakers> low speed = 1.5Mb?
[18:11:36] <bakers> what is the low end of USB?
[18:11:37] <OndraSterver> I think that V-USB requires just over 2kB of flash?
[18:11:43] <OndraSterver> 1.5Mbit in theory
[18:11:51] <Amadiro> bakers, yeah, usb keyboards are definitely possible, IIRC I've seen somebody do a usb keyboard with an attiny45
[18:11:59] <OndraSterver> in reality 1.5Mbit = 1Mbit or so, and that is not possible on V-USB IMHO
[18:12:01] <bakers> wow
[18:12:04] <OndraSterver> you are down to few kB/s
[18:12:06] <Amadiro> (or it might've been an attiny84/85, not 100%)
[18:12:16] <OndraSterver> 1.5Mbit is theoretical throughput
[18:12:21] <bakers> The digispark is running an ATTiny85 and it runs V-USB
[18:12:35] <bakers> that thing is pretty small... 8k flash and 2k ram
[18:12:47] <OndraSterver> just as 12Mbit is full-speed theoretical throughput, but you can not push above 8.3Mbit of real data through it... or something
[18:12:54] <Amadiro> bakers, yeah, and it's pretty expensive considering how low-specced it is, IMHO :)
[18:13:17] <bakers> Amadiro: which is? ATtiny85/
[18:13:30] <OndraSterver> attiny85 is like 0.8€ if you are fine with 5V version
[18:13:35] <OndraSterver> which works on 3.3V as well
[18:13:36] <Amadiro> bakers, yeah. It's 14$ or so, isn't it?
[18:13:41] <OndraSterver> (unless it was mistake in pricing)
[18:13:57] <bakers> I just bought 5 from ebay for $9
[18:14:06] <OndraSterver> ebay... not sure if I would trust those
[18:14:25] <bakers> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-ORIGINAL-ATMEL-ATTINY85-20PU-ATTINY85-20PU-Microcontrolle-r-DIP-8-RH6-/261086942828?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc9fe966c
[18:14:34] <bakers> OndraSterver: Oh ya? How come?
[18:14:42] <OndraSterver> they could be chinese fakes
[18:14:47] <bakers> If they don't work I'm not out anything
[18:14:49] <bakers> just a toy
[18:14:58] <OndraSterver> :)
[18:15:07] <OndraSterver> 1.12 eur for DIP version on mouser/1pcs
[18:15:17] <OndraSterver> 0.722 eur for smd version on mouser/1pcs
[18:15:28] <OndraSterver> down to 0.579 eur for smd for 100pcs
[18:15:47] <bakers> Tiny85 is pretty impressive for the cost
[18:15:54] <bakers> as a toy/hobby thing
[18:16:11] <bakers> Is DIP the link I posted
[18:16:16] <bakers> i.e. something you put in a breadboard?
[18:16:30] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:16:33] * bakers is still learning terminology
[18:16:41] <OndraSterver> DIP = Dual In Package
[18:16:43] <Amadiro> bakers, sure, or on a veroboard or whatever you want
[18:16:48] <bakers> OndraSterver: Is there something specific I should look out for on ebay?
[18:16:49] <OndraSterver> I *think*
[18:16:55] <OndraSterver> bakers, well
[18:16:58] <OndraSterver> look out as for fakes?
[18:17:09] <bakers> Got it ... ok
[18:17:21] <OndraSterver> it is hard to distinguish really
[18:17:31] <OndraSterver> it could be chips pulled from working systems
[18:17:33] <OndraSterver> who knows
[18:17:43] <bakers> OndraSterver: Ok fair enough...
[18:17:50] <OndraSterver> if it works - great :)
[18:18:02] <bakers> So the 8u4 or whatever
[18:18:08] <bakers> that's doing USB at the chip level
[18:18:11] <bakers> i.e. NOT software
[18:18:12] <OndraSterver> ye
[18:18:16] <bakers> that will do full speed USB?
[18:18:19] <bakers> 10Mb/s or whatever?
[18:18:22] <OndraSterver> 12Mbit is the theoretical
[18:18:28] <OndraSterver> in reality it is between 6 - 8Mbit
[18:18:31] <OndraSterver> but if you want this throughput
[18:18:34] <OndraSterver> you have to look at different chips
[18:18:36] <OndraSterver> something with DMA
[18:18:43] <OndraSterver> and I can offer you http://myxboard.net :)
[18:18:45] <bakers> Is the CPU even fast enough to push that much?
[18:18:55] <OndraSterver> if it is supposed to be doing more stuff at once - no
[18:18:55] <bakers> Can you even generate all 0s that fast?
[18:19:01] <Amadiro> bakers, with DMA, you can basically circumvent the CPU
[18:19:08] <OndraSterver> but mega doesn't have DMA
[18:19:10] <OndraSterver> only xmega does :)
[18:19:14] <OndraSterver> and xmega <3
[18:19:31] <bakers> I was reading about DMA the other day
[18:19:39] <bakers> It's just a way to write directly to RAM?
[18:19:41] <OndraSterver> DMA is a cool thing that began in the 80s? 70s?
[18:19:46] <OndraSterver> peripheral <> RAM
[18:19:51] <OndraSterver> instead peripheral <> CPU <> RAM
[18:19:54] <bakers> Aha!
[18:19:55] <bakers> ok
[18:20:00] <bakers> that makes total sense
[18:20:13] <OndraSterver> that was used in old Z80, 8086, .. as well
[18:20:24] <OndraSterver> well, there it was through DMA controller..
[18:20:46] <OndraSterver> also the RAM has dual access
[18:20:54] <OndraSterver> aka the core can access it even while DMA is reading or writing to it
[18:21:10] <OndraSterver> like I said, you can record or playback sound on xmega without any CPU instructions being done :)
[18:21:11] <bakers> Where do you think the 328 falls in comparison to old intel stuff... 8088, 186, 286, 386
[18:21:16] <OndraSterver> nowhere
[18:21:19] <OndraSterver> different class of chip
[18:21:26] <OndraSterver> it is like comparing car with a zebra
[18:21:39] <bakers> Because it's a different architecutre
[18:21:44] <bakers> i.e. not x86
[18:21:50] <OndraSterver> it is mostly microCONTROLLER rather microPROCESSOR
[18:21:51] <bakers> diff instruction set?
[18:21:56] <bakers> Oh ok
[18:22:02] <OndraSterver> MCU = processor + peripherals
[18:22:04] <bakers> what's the diff between a controller and processor then
[18:22:06] <OndraSterver> MPU = only processor
[18:22:07] <bakers> OH
[18:22:53] <OndraSterver> also MPUs are built around external flash + RAM
[18:23:02] <OndraSterver> MCUs are usually only with external ones (exceptions apply)
[18:23:12] <bakers> So this leonardo I have on my desk, could it crunch X digits of pi faster than my 386 I had back in 1987
[18:23:19] <OndraSterver> no
[18:23:23] <OndraSterver> no FPU on mega :)
[18:23:26] <bakers> Ah true
[18:23:36] <Amadiro> well, who says you need an FPU to crunch digits of pi
[18:23:36] <OndraSterver> if you had 387 though
[18:23:42] <OndraSterver> nobody
[18:23:59] <OndraSterver> but FPU was made for such tasks
[18:24:01] <bakers> The 386 didn't have a FPU did it
[18:24:02] <OndraSterver> for math
[18:24:04] <OndraSterver> 387
[18:24:07] <OndraSterver> coprocessor
[18:24:33] <bakers> Co meaning separate from the main CPU
[18:24:37] <Amadiro> bakers, but generally MCUs have more of a place in controlling things, translating protocols, pushing data back and forth and such, and then for high-throughput or high-processing applications you use CPUs, FPGAs/ASICs/CPLDs, GPUs et cetera
[18:24:40] <OndraSterver> that it was assisting, yes
[18:24:56] <OndraSterver> coprocessor can not work on its own
[18:25:02] <bakers> On a modern CPU it's all part of the core processor though
[18:25:06] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:25:10] <bakers> there isn't a separare FPU in there right?
[18:25:14] <OndraSterver> even 486DX had already builtin FPU
[18:25:18] <OndraSterver> for mega - no
[18:25:33] <OndraSterver> but you can use old FPUs and with a bit of coding use them for heavier math :)
[18:25:40] <OndraSterver> 8087 could be a good thing
[18:25:44] <OndraSterver> let me see if I could get one someday
[18:25:48] <OndraSterver> or 80287
[18:26:02] <OndraSterver> hmm 8bit bus preferably
[18:26:03] <bakers> it was a separate physical chip?
[18:26:06] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:26:09] <bakers> Oh wow
[18:26:14] <OndraSterver> usually you could see two sockets on old motherboards
[18:26:18] <OndraSterver> one for CPU, one for FPU
[18:26:22] <bakers> Man that's been a long time
[18:26:26] <OndraSterver> yep
[18:26:32] <OndraSterver> older than me :)
[18:26:43] <OndraSterver> just as neighbours cat
[18:27:12] <bakers> Is there a central USB licenser/registrar?
[18:27:17] <bakers> don't you have to register for a USB ID
[18:27:18] <OndraSterver> USB org
[18:27:22] <bakers> if you're gonna sell a USB product
[18:27:24] <OndraSterver> for USB VID
[18:27:29] <OndraSterver> there are two parts to this
[18:27:39] <OndraSterver> a) USB VID - for $2k you get one whole VID block
[18:27:43] <OndraSterver> aka 65536 PIDs
[18:27:47] <OndraSterver> with custom VID
[18:27:53] <OndraSterver> b) USB peripheral certification
[18:27:57] <OndraSterver> (I don't know pricing there)
[18:27:58] <bakers> Sort of like mac addresses for a NIC?
[18:28:03] <OndraSterver> that is the A, yes
[18:28:15] <OndraSterver> B is checking out the waveform of the USB, that it complies to the specs
[18:28:18] <OndraSterver> etc
[18:29:03] <bakers> When I plug a USB device in
[18:29:10] <bakers> lsub says "XYZ arduino whatever"
[18:29:13] <bakers> i.e. it has a name
[18:29:14] <OndraSterver> yes
[18:29:20] <bakers> Is that sent from the client
[18:29:22] <bakers> or device
[18:29:22] <OndraSterver> that is taken FROM the device actually
[18:29:24] <bakers> Ya ok
[18:29:28] <OndraSterver> but drivers can override that
[18:29:31] <bakers> My leonardo is blank
[18:29:32] <OndraSterver> (on Windows, no idea how on linux)
[18:29:32] <bakers> JUST an ID
[18:29:44] <OndraSterver> no, there is bootloader on your device
[18:29:49] <OndraSterver> which manages the USB
[18:29:58] <bakers> But it reports itself without a name
[18:30:04] <OndraSterver> huh?
[18:30:04] <bakers> that's not an OS thing
[18:30:15] <OndraSterver> there are two parts to reporting:
[18:30:21] <OndraSterver> VID & PID combo = must be in the firmware
[18:30:26] <OndraSterver> it is part of some descriptor
[18:30:30] <bakers> OndraSterver: http://www.fpaste.org/iojb/
[18:30:30] <OndraSterver> then there is OPTIONAL name of the device
[18:30:39] <bakers> 2341:8036 is my leonardo
[18:30:40] <Amadiro> bakers, AFAIR if you use `usb-devices` it will tell you the name and vendor the usb device sent itself (so you can make it show there whatever you want) but lsusb shows the name based on the usb VID (or maybe it was the other way around), so you can't so easily change that unless you get your own VIDs
[18:30:45] <OndraSterver> another descriptor, but the device can report that there is none
[18:31:08] <Amadiro> I think the windows device manager thingie will only ever show names based on the VID from its VID database
[18:31:17] <bakers> Amadiro: I didn't know about usb-devices... that's awesome
[18:31:29] <OndraSterver> I don't think there is internal VID database
[18:31:32] <OndraSterver> for a simple reason...
[18:31:37] <OndraSterver> some vendors do not have public name :)
[18:31:47] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, the linux kernel has one for sure, I remember looking at it.
[18:31:51] <OndraSterver> hmm
[18:31:53] <OndraSterver> linux
[18:31:58] <OndraSterver> I am Windows user :)
[18:32:09] <Amadiro> I'm not, so I don't know what windows is doing exactly
[18:32:13] <OndraSterver> but like I said, the kernel can ask the device to report some name
[18:32:17] <OndraSterver> and the name usually contains vendor
[18:32:41] <OndraSterver> so even though I am going to use stock MS's USB CDC driver, I will report my own name
[18:32:50] <OndraSterver> which will hopefuly the system show
[18:33:11] <OndraSterver> not sure how it works on these stock drivers
[18:33:14] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, try it out, I think I tried it once and couldn't get windows to show my vendor name/product name string
[18:33:23] <Amadiro> but that was a while ago and on windows xp
[18:33:36] <OndraSterver> from .inf driver or from the USB descriptor in the device?
[18:33:43] <OndraSterver> usually once the inf driver is installed it overrides the name
[18:34:00] <Amadiro> I think in some places it would show my product name string, but I couldn't get it to tell me the vendor name, not even in the device manager in the detailed device view
[18:34:29] <OndraSterver> hmm
[18:34:32] <Amadiro> OndraSterver, sorry, no clue, I don't know how these things generally work on windows
[18:34:35] <OndraSterver> when I develop my USB stack - will test it :)
[18:38:43] <OndraSterver> hmm I don't think I am getting up today at 0800 :D
[18:40:37] <OndraSterver> bakers, once you will be looking out for bigger chips, remember to check out http://myxboard.net - I am making an "advanced arduino" with xmegas :)
[18:40:51] <OndraSterver> breadboardable
[18:41:31] <OndraSterver> XBoard coco with 256kB flash/16kB RAM/... costs the same as arduino leonardo or thereabouts. But it hasn't got arduino-like libraries. yet.
[18:44:01] <OndraSterver> if you have any Qs or so, you can drop me a PM here. I am off. GN!
[18:47:56] <bakers> If I develop something with V-USB do I have to make up a VID for it to work?
[20:33:14] <Kevin`> OndraSterver: i'm suspecting that a board with a lot of sram would save me some coding time. you said you are selling those, right?
[21:04:22] <GuShH> amee2woof: http://gushh.net/furryfox.jpg
[21:51:26] <theBear> GuShH, heh, always wondered what you looked like :)
[21:51:36] <GuShH> theBear: that's not me...
[21:51:48] <theBear> that's what they all say <grin>
[21:51:53] <GuShH> theBear: since amee2woof seems to be a furry now, I like to annoy him.
[21:52:11] <GuShH> that's a screen grab from the conan o brien show
[21:52:22] <theBear> wow, i thought you were born furry, not a choice like sexual orientation <biggrin>
[21:52:34] * GuShH blinks
[21:52:56] <theBear> not YOU, one
[21:53:10] * GuShH blinks some more
[22:15:55] <Lt_Lemming> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-duemilanove-schematic.pdf <--- R2 on the RTS line... "100_NM"?
[22:45:31] <Casper> Lt_Lemming: arduino, don't question their greatness!
[22:46:03] <Lt_Lemming> Casper, Arduino is great for getting noobs into electronics, but their schematic is a bit borked.
[22:46:50] <Casper> so is their lib
[22:47:07] <Lt_Lemming> for noobs who just want to flash some LED's etc, it's fine
[22:47:20] <Casper> actually, the boards are ok, their bootloader is said to be way too big, but work... but the rest...
[22:48:26] <Lt_Lemming> yes if you want to calculate 5000 digits of Pi it's crap, if you want to be able to program it easily, and have easily readable code
[22:48:53] <Lt_Lemming> and I mean easily programmable and readable to someone who has never programmed before
[22:49:05] <Casper> what the... look at the reset_en solder pad
[22:49:09] <Lt_Lemming> yeah
[22:49:48] <Casper> rts to reset?
[22:49:48] <Lt_Lemming> yeah
[22:49:57] <Casper> dtr to cap to reset o.O
[22:50:57] <Richard_Cavell> Lt_Lemming: Are you having a go at noobs who want to flash LEDs? I'm proud of being one of those
[22:52:05] <Lt_Lemming> I'm not having a go Richard_Cavell
[22:52:05] <Lt_Lemming> I am saying the arduino is ideal for that
[22:52:05] <Casper> I'm saying arduino libs ain'T even good for that
[22:52:06] <Lt_Lemming> does it or does it not allow you to flash an LED?
[22:53:11] <Lt_Lemming> don't care about efficiency or proper adressing or any of that crap
[22:53:11] <Lt_Lemming> it
[22:53:11] <Lt_Lemming> is basic functionality
[22:57:45] <iR0b0t1> the Arduino libs suck
[22:57:54] <iR0b0t1> they have so much ... extraneous code.
[23:05:01] <Casper> and encourage the worse coding ever
[23:06:06] <Landon> boo hoo, they encourage coding
[23:06:11] <Landon> period.
[23:06:43] <Casper> now, going get some milk, and a spoon...
[23:06:47] <Casper> that cake is MIIIIINE
[23:06:56] <Landon> wait, a spoon for cake?
[23:07:25] <Casper> hmm yeah?
[23:27:52] <Lt_Lemming> if the cake is soft enough, a spoon is called for
[23:33:25] <iR0b0t1> you people.
[23:33:33] <iR0b0t1> You ALWAYS eat cake with a fork.
[23:35:19] <Casper> iR0b0t1: find me where that rule is written :D
[23:43:02] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/sGORa.jpg