#avr | Logs for 2012-08-12

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[00:02:37] <buhman> so I'm trying to find ways to de-uglify my code, http://sprunge.us/AhfT?c is the result of my lets-remember-how-to-make-the-lcd-work exercise, but I really hate the code I wrote. One thing I was considering was wasting another output-compare channel to generate a second interrupt (which I could have easily done in the if statement there, just by putting some value higher than my target frequency, and then doing
[00:02:39] <buhman> the falling-edge of the clock there.
[00:03:19] <buhman> the real question is: how do I make the second output compare channel work? that is, one of the two channels should be the one resetting TCNT1, but not both.
[00:03:27] <buhman> I'm not sure if I saw magic to do that in the datasheet
[00:03:39] <buhman> or: is there a better way to do that entirely?
[00:09:22] <R0b0t1> buhman: Defining an array like that will waste ram. It is better to list each instruction by itself
[00:09:58] <R0b0t1> unless you put it in flash
[00:11:18] <buhman> the PROGMEM nonsense?
[00:11:23] <buhman> makes sense
[00:11:49] <buhman> I was eventually going to make each instruction a single byte and then split them up using arithmetic
[00:11:53] <buhman> not sure if that's better or worse
[00:16:05] <buhman> R0b0t1: what do you mean "by itself" by the way
[00:16:59] <R0b0t1> well the init array seems like a sequence of commands to be send to the LCD
[00:17:04] <buhman> it is
[00:17:04] <R0b0t1> if you store it in an array like that
[00:17:20] <R0b0t1> it is compiled as a series of load-literal-to-RAM instructions
[00:17:28] <R0b0t1> and then you read the value from ram and set the port to it
[00:17:34] <buhman> right
[00:17:47] <R0b0t1> you should just expand out the init array to be a bunch of assignment statements
[00:17:54] <R0b0t1> it would take roughly the same amount of program memory
[00:17:58] <R0b0t1> or smaller
[00:18:10] <buhman> instead of iterating through the loop, actually write the whole thing out?
[00:18:15] <buhman> that sounds uglier
[00:20:10] <R0b0t1> well you could make the init array to be flash-resident and read from flash in a loo
[00:20:11] <R0b0t1> loop
[00:20:23] <R0b0t1> which would probably be shorter than writing all the assignments out
[00:22:51] <buhman> right, that sounds acceptable
[01:42:04] <rue_shop3> hey, anyone having problems with debians avr-libc?
[01:42:28] <rue_shop3> it looks like there is an error in delay.h that causes a malformed call to round()
[01:43:13] <rue_shop3> Tom_itx, where do you get avr libc from?
[01:43:22] <rue_shop3> did you compiel or install as package
[01:44:37] <rue_shop3> last time I had to compile it, there was a long lists of tweeks a person had to make before running a list of commands that was only reasable to make a script file of
[01:58:54] <rue_shop3> ok who has tried to compiel avr-libc latley?
[02:41:40] <buhman> rue_shop3: archlinux doesn't patch upstream at the moment
[02:41:56] <buhman> so I'm using upstream 1.8.0 just fine right now
[02:43:18] <buhman> arch just does:
[02:43:20] <buhman> ./configure --build=$(./config.guess) --host=avr --prefix=/usr
[02:43:22] <buhman> make
[02:43:24] <buhman> and that's it
[05:29:29] <specing> rue_shop3: compiles without problems
[05:29:57] <specing> vanilla one, unpatched; along with unpatched gcc and binutils
[07:31:08] <ben1066> anyone here used the ENC424J600?
[07:36:09] <specing> ben1066: ##pic might have
[07:36:31] <ben1066> Figures :) But they already have a TCP/IP stack
[07:36:54] <specing> heh
[07:37:58] <ben1066> http://code.google.com/p/avr-butterfly-encx24j600-uip/ is all ive really found
[11:02:17] <OndraSter> damnit, why my printer sucks on line separation
[11:02:27] <OndraSter> I failed at 0.8mm pitch, will have to knife them apart once it etches :(
[11:02:35] <OndraSter> but regular SOIC is fine
[11:02:35] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2cqxK
[11:03:37] <CapnKernel1> What technique are you using?
[11:03:48] <OndraSter> UV
[11:03:55] <OndraSter> but my printer even on the masks has got issues
[11:04:03] <OndraSter> and there is pretty much zero space between the lines
[11:04:19] <OndraSter> I tried fixing it with a knife but I scratched the transparent foil probably and the light didn't got on the PCB either :(
[11:04:46] <OndraSter> I can only dream of 0.5mm pitch for QFN
[11:04:49] <OndraSter> which I'd love to use
[11:04:57] <OndraSter> because they are often more available than TQFP
[11:05:06] <OndraSter> and DIP is much more expensive and much much bigger footprint
[11:05:18] <timemage> you might be able to offset the image, print a second time and overlay the transparencies.
[11:05:23] <OndraSter> timemage, I did that
[11:05:38] <timemage> OndraSter, with a half-line offset?
[11:05:42] <OndraSter> my printer rocks, it is fast, stable, cheap to print
[11:05:46] <OndraSter> huh?
[11:05:54] <CapnKernel1> I used translucent drafting paper, 0.2mm was fine
[11:06:01] <OndraSter> but it has problems with line separation when they are REALLY close to themselves
[11:06:09] <OndraSter> CapnKernel1, it is about the printer here :(
[11:06:32] <OndraSter> it is not made for this, it is made for printing 10k pages per month
[11:06:34] <CapnKernel1> Laser printer or inkjet printer?
[11:06:35] <OndraSter> of text
[11:06:38] <OndraSter> laser of course
[11:06:43] <OndraSter> it is business printer
[11:07:20] <OndraSter> it is made in 2003 or 4
[11:07:31] <OndraSter> it was sold over $500 back in the day I think
[11:07:36] <OndraSter> maybe even twice as much I would dare to guess
[11:07:42] <OndraSter> HP LaserJet 2300dn
[11:07:47] <OndraSter> aka with duplex + network modules
[11:18:11] <OndraSter> CapnKernel1, btw, what was your UV source?
[11:18:17] <OndraSter> I am using 125W mercury vapour lamp
[11:18:28] <OndraSter> built into ATX fulltower :D
[11:18:38] <OndraSter> 17 minutes approx
[11:18:45] <OndraSter> (I haven't broken the outer bulb)
[11:20:17] <CapnKernel1> OndraSter: http://capnstech.blogspot.com/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html
[11:20:46] <OndraSter> ahh right, that UV box :)
[11:21:11] <OndraSter> I have got one as well, but I need to put it into some bigger box where the LEDs are further away so the light is more apart and less "spotty"
[11:23:12] <CapnKernel1> I had two layers of drafting paper to act as a diffuser
[11:23:45] <CapnKernel1> If I was ever mad enough to make PCBs at home again, I'd probably get some fresnel diffuser, that way there's no light loss
[11:26:12] <specing> Easy for you to say, the rest of us don't live near a cheap pcb fab...
[11:28:35] <CapnKernel1> I'm spoiled
[11:29:07] <OndraSter> woah I was scared for a bit that I flipped the design upside down
[11:29:17] <CapnKernel1> When I go back to Australia (< 3 weeks to go, yippee!) I still wouldn't make them at home.
[11:29:21] <OndraSter> luckily I was smart enough to draw it in proper (bottom) layer and put there my name
[11:29:29] <CapnKernel1> Yay
[11:30:21] <Toneloc> CapnKernel1- are you in China now?
[11:30:45] <CapnKernel1> Yes
[11:31:15] <Toneloc> lucky you, how do you like it?
[11:31:42] <CapnKernel1> China is an amazing place, always something interesting to see.
[11:32:23] <CapnKernel1> But "interesting" can mean "excited by", "disgusted by", "turned off by", "turned on by" or anything in between
[11:32:43] <Toneloc> Yes, I can imagine - would be such a shock compared to western culture. I would imagine China is a place to live there for a while, but not a place you would liek to live indefinetly, correct?
[11:32:55] <Toneloc> *like
[11:33:08] <OndraSter> CapnKernel1, you are going back to ozieland for a month?
[11:33:37] <CapnKernel1> Visa permission aside, could I live here indefinitely? Yes
[11:33:58] <CapnKernel1> But I have a wife and kids back home, so for that reason I spend time in Australia too.
[11:34:16] <CapnKernel1> OndraSter: Yes, but PCB supply will go on as normal.
[11:34:23] <OndraSter> k :)
[11:34:25] <OndraSter> got a guy there?
[11:34:31] <Toneloc> Oh, I understand. Interesting that QOL can be good enough in China
[11:34:46] <CapnKernel1> Shenzhen is advanced, compared to the rest of China.
[11:34:50] <Toneloc> I thoughtb with pollution and such-it wouldnt be so nice
[11:35:02] <CapnKernel1> It's not as bad as Beijing.
[11:35:26] <CapnKernel1> I have a bunch of people here who are very good at what they do.
[11:35:35] <Tom_itx> are they taking steps to control it or just ignoring it?
[11:35:44] <CapnKernel1> Food is something I have a lot of trouble with
[11:35:50] <Toneloc> Is Shenzhen really the 'wild west' of China that is sometimes played out to be by people?
[11:35:53] <CapnKernel1> I found the food better in the north
[11:35:53] <OndraSter> also CapnKernel1 do you know what is stealing? I bought 10g of NaOH for like $1. Then I found out that you can use drain cleaner. 500g for $3 :/
[11:36:20] <Tom_itx> you didn't ask
[11:36:26] <CapnKernel1> The value of stuff is what people were willing to pay for it, and at the time, you were willing to pay for it.
[11:36:37] <Toneloc> yeah, I have it- its called caustic soda
[11:36:53] <Toneloc> its nasty stuff
[11:37:05] <OndraSter> well it is called hydroxid sodny here, which means literally NaOH :D
[11:37:08] <OndraSter> or dran cleaner
[11:37:22] <CapnKernel1> Tom_itx: They are making efforts about air pollution, but it's a huge battle, as they have so many coal fired power stations.
[11:37:22] <OndraSter> depends on who made it
[11:37:27] <CapnKernel1> They open another one every two weeks
[11:37:35] <Toneloc> sodium hydroxide
[11:37:49] <Toneloc> but if you go into the hardware store and ask for that
[11:37:53] <Toneloc> they will stare at you
[11:38:10] <Toneloc> 'caustic soda' and they will run and get it for you!
[11:38:29] <OndraSter> :D
[11:38:41] <OndraSter> usually here it is you who picks stuff up and then you pay it at the output of the shop
[11:38:55] <Toneloc> last thing I tried with it was when I was a kid- trying to make hydrogen explosions
[11:39:30] <Toneloc> OndraSter- same here, dependant upon the size and type of the shop
[11:39:34] <OndraSter> lol
[11:39:41] <OndraSter> explosions ftw
[11:39:47] <Toneloc> family run- they will probably go with you to get it.
[11:40:23] <OndraSter> the explosion?
[11:40:36] <Toneloc> hahaha v.funny!
[11:40:44] <Toneloc> the 'caustic soda'
[11:40:46] <Toneloc> :)
[11:41:26] <OndraSter> oh
[11:42:18] <Toneloc> i wa sinto chemistry , but got out of it
[11:42:34] <Toneloc> its worse tahn electronics for local unobtainium
[11:42:38] <Toneloc> *than
[11:42:43] <OndraSter> hehe yep
[11:42:51] <OndraSter> it is potentionally much more dangerous very often
[11:43:04] <Toneloc> we spent so many years blowing each other up here
[11:43:15] <Toneloc> that virtually every chemical is restricted
[11:43:49] <Toneloc> and what you can get, is way overpriced
[11:49:36] <OndraSter> <Toneloc> we spent so many years blowing each other up here
[11:49:40] <OndraSter> I see what you did there
[11:50:08] <OndraSter> also, somebody is selling "wine fridge" or whatever they call it, but it is borked - doesn't react on touchscreen... I do wonder if I should pick it up and try fixing it
[11:50:22] <OndraSter> right now it is 110 CZK + 100 CZK shipping (20 CZK = $1 or 25 CZK = 1€)
[11:50:27] <OndraSter> ends in 2 hours
[11:52:39] <Toneloc> OndraSter- sounds like good value at that
[11:52:48] <Toneloc> but apart from chemistry, what for?
[11:53:04] <Toneloc> Im sure you dont really need the touchscreen
[11:53:32] <Toneloc> OndraSter- btw, what do you mean by ?>> see what you did there
[11:54:35] <OndraSter> whoops, sent to wrong channel
[11:54:35] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> fo when I will want to have fun I have got here prepared 3 TV flybacks and one MOT
[11:54:36] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> one of my friends is building tesla coil.. He has got now 8 or 9 MOTs :D
[11:54:36] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> primaries in parallel, secondaries in serial :P
[11:54:45] <OndraSter> Toneloc, :P
[11:54:57] <OndraSter> yes, the price si cool right now
[11:55:01] <OndraSter> but I hope people won't bid anymore
[11:55:06] <OndraSter> I love to snipe "the last second"
[11:56:22] <Casper> ondraSter: I foresee a catastrophic failure of his tesla coil
[11:56:29] <OndraSter> hmm?
[11:56:32] <Casper> by the mean of wiring insulation failure :D
[11:56:36] <OndraSter> :D
[11:56:44] <OndraSter> well there will be 2kV on each coil
[11:56:47] <OndraSter> I don't see the issue?
[11:56:54] <OndraSter> err
[11:56:55] <OndraSter> on each MOT
[11:57:18] <Casper> the problem isn't in each mot, but throught the first and last one
[11:57:58] <OndraSter> hmm?
[11:58:40] <Casper> first MOT secondary "0V" to primary.... and last MOT primary to secondary "20kV"
[11:58:53] <OndraSter> yes
[11:59:06] <Casper> or if the transfo are grounded... will arc via the core
[11:59:23] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:59:43] <OndraSter> I haven't really studied tesla coils so I don't know where is connected the output of the MOT :)
[11:59:50] <OndraSter> MOTs* even
[12:00:04] <Casper> let's suppose that each MOT have a 5KV isolation between primary and secondary
[12:00:13] <OndraSter> yes
[12:00:13] <Casper> double that and it's only 10kV
[12:00:34] <OndraSter> but it isn't shorted, is it?
[12:01:14] <Casper> so it could arc from one secondary to the primary, via the primary feed, to the "last" MOT primary, arc to the secondary and complete the circuit via all the secondary
[12:01:34] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:01:48] <OndraSter> well, I will leave it to him to think about it, he is going to study "power grid" on uni
[12:01:53] <OndraSter> (same uni, different faculty than me)
[13:08:19] <rue_bed> specing, what version of avr-libc are you using
[13:08:27] <rue_bed> Tom_itx, ditto
[13:08:54] <rue_bed> I'v tried compiling 1.6.8 and 1.8.0 and both have a fault in delay.h
[13:09:23] <rue_bed> last time I compiled libc is was about 2003
[13:16:16] <atmega8> the delay.h is at an other place now?
[13:16:29] <atmega8> what is the error message?
[13:16:49] <rue_bed> delay.h seems to use round() but it does it wrong
[13:26:49] <rue_bed> oh the error message is that round is called without a variable in it, and in two locations variables must be set as const to be stored in program space
[13:27:02] <rue_bed> Tom_itx, ?
[13:27:30] * rue_bed stretches
[13:28:15] <rue_bed> I recall waay back when, avr-libc had to be pathed to work, I think its still true and I'm just getting it from the pre-patched source
[13:33:05] <rue_bed> but i"v never heard anyone say they had problems builing it, so either nobody does or they aren't having problems wit it
[13:33:56] <OndraSter> hmm next time I should really make the pads smaller
[13:33:59] <OndraSter> or get a better printer
[13:34:08] <OndraSter> some el cheapo 1200DPI laserjet
[13:34:12] <OndraSter> laser*
[13:34:19] <OndraSter> preferably small one
[13:34:53] <Casper> * cross-avr/avr-libc
[13:34:53] <Casper> Latest version available: 1.8.0
[13:34:53] <Casper> Latest version installed: 1.8.0
[13:41:21] <rue_house> where did you get it front
[13:41:22] <rue_house> from
[13:41:32] <rue_house> as a package or did you compile it yourself
[13:42:22] <specing> rue_bed: svn
[13:43:20] <rue_house> http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/avr-libc/
[13:43:22] <rue_house> so not from there
[13:43:34] <specing> nope
[13:44:28] <rue_house> have the svn fetch command?
[13:44:34] <Casper> gentoo, so kinda both
[13:44:37] <Casper> bbl
[13:45:52] <specing> rue_bed: git svn clone svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc
[13:46:00] <rue_house> cant even find the svn server for it
[13:46:04] <rue_house> ah
[13:46:46] <specing> err svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc/trunk
[13:47:09] <specing> And yes, everything compiles fine here on Gentoo :)
[13:49:40] <specing> rue_house: Simple, use Gentoo!
[13:50:00] <Tom_itx> rue_bed?
[13:50:37] <specing> Thats the computer he has in his bed
[13:51:08] <specing> covered up with a blanket so it doesen't catch a cold
[14:21:43] <rue_shop3> specing, sorry, I'm thru chasing geese, I'm not installing for a 6th time to try to get this to work
[14:22:28] <specing> Installing what for the 6th time?
[14:22:30] <rue_shop3> specing, svn or git?
[14:22:37] <specing> git svn clone
[14:23:43] <rue_shop3> svn co svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc/ trunk
[14:25:20] <specing> if you want the whole repo
[14:25:27] <specing> else /trunk
[14:25:46] <rue_shop3> svn co svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc/trunk
[14:26:24] <rue_shop3> ./configure --build=`./config.guess` --host=avr
[14:26:40] <specing> --prefix=/where/to --program-prefix=avr-
[14:26:51] <rue_shop3> there is no configure scirpt
[14:26:58] <specing> ./bootstrap
[14:26:59] <rue_shop3> why is there no configure script
[14:28:39] <specing> rue_shop3: welcome to the wonderfull world of autotools
[14:30:37] <rue_shop3> test
[14:30:44] <rue_shop3> keyboard hit the floor
[14:30:49] <Tom_itx> fail
[14:32:01] <rue_shop3> I HAVE TO MAKE THOE KEYBAORD PROPERLY FIT THE chair of doom
[14:32:28] <rue_shop3> TEST
[14:32:30] <rue_shop3> test
[14:33:29] <rue_shop3> model M dont like concrete floor
[14:33:43] <rue_shop3> all the keys and caps go flying off
[14:35:29] <rue_shop3> svn co svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc/trunk
[14:35:35] <rue_shop3> ./bootstrap
[14:35:40] <rue_shop3> ./configure --build=`./config.guess` --host=avr
[14:35:44] <rue_shop3> make
[14:35:58] <OndraSter> wtf, the borked wine cooler is now at 405 CZK (= $20)
[14:36:02] <OndraSter> and 45 mins left to the end
[14:38:03] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2DZksxljU
[14:40:02] <specing> rue_house: --prefix=/where/to --program-prefix=avr-
[14:57:48] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/zDwKw.jpg <--- start of the board I am working on
[15:01:02] <buhman> so before I start going crazy with my wheel-reinventing, I thought I'd ask if anyone thought it sounded like a good idea: the goal presently is to take some arbitrary integer, and recursively do modulus and division by 10 to extract each decimal digit, with the ultimate goal being to display it on my LCD
[15:01:30] <specing> you're going crazy
[15:01:32] <specing> display it in hex
[15:01:49] <buhman> well, that would just be mod/div 16
[15:01:59] <buhman> if I just put all of the characters on the screen in-order as I do the remainder math, they would be backwards too
[15:02:18] <buhman> so I figured I'd push them all to a stack until I end up with zero, and then pop them on the screen
[15:02:38] <buhman> is there a more-sane way to go about doing this?
[15:03:48] <buhman> there's no std::stack or whatever in avr-libc right? so I'd need to implement it myself I'm guessing
[15:03:51] <specing> false
[15:03:57] <specing> < buhman> well, that would just be mod/div 16
[15:04:02] <specing> false.
[15:04:23] <specing> you can have the LCD auto-decrement, ya know?
[15:04:42] <buhman> well, but then I'd need to calculate ahead of time how far to skip forward
[15:04:42] <OndraSter> Lt_Lemming, hmm
[15:04:45] <OndraSter> what does it remind me of :]
[15:04:58] <specing> buhman: stack is very simple to implement, ld Z+ , lcd -Z
[15:05:02] <specing> *ld
[15:05:08] <OndraSter> specing, C is he doing
[15:05:15] <buhman> specing: ok? false? why is it false?
[15:05:35] <specing> OndraSter: GCC *should* generate the above, but j/k....
[15:05:39] <OndraSter> Lt_Lemming, may I suggest those SOIC8 dual MOSFETs instead regular SOT23 transistors?
[15:05:48] <buhman> specing: yeah, I'm not doing assembly yet
[15:05:50] <OndraSter> exactly, *should*
[15:05:57] <specing> buhman: you don't need any division if you are displaying a multiple of 2
[15:06:02] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, all the ones I could find didn't have enough power handling
[15:06:11] <OndraSter> hmm
[15:06:14] <buhman> specing: you mean power?
[15:06:19] <OndraSter> I grabbed the cheapest ones I could find
[15:06:22] <OndraSter> they were being sold out on farnell
[15:06:26] <buhman> specing: 10 is a multiple of 2 :P
[15:06:28] <OndraSter> like $.1 per one
[15:06:37] <OndraSter> they were 4A continuous, 16A peak I think
[15:06:47] <OndraSter> 4V drive even
[15:06:47] <Lt_Lemming> and I am using 3 fets per 4 pin connector, so a chip with a multiple of 2 would be annoying to wire
[15:06:50] <specing> buhman: ...
[15:07:01] <OndraSter> Lt_Lemming, so couple them together
[15:07:06] <OndraSter> also why waste one pin?
[15:07:10] <specing> buhman: 2^n
[15:07:14] <buhman> specing: ^ power
[15:07:16] <buhman> not multiple
[15:07:22] <specing> yeah whatever
[15:07:25] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, that pin is for power
[15:07:26] <OndraSter> I lied, 3.5A continuous, 14A peak
[15:07:27] <specing> you get the point though
[15:07:30] <OndraSter> hmm?
[15:07:32] <Lt_Lemming> 12v output, three n channel gets
[15:07:35] <OndraSter> how is it going to be wired up?
[15:07:35] <Lt_Lemming> fets*
[15:07:38] <buhman> specing: in any case, how would I extract the hex digits then?
[15:07:55] <OndraSter> I used P channels in my project, active low ftw
[15:07:56] <Lt_Lemming> OndraSter, got a part number?
[15:08:05] <specing> (value& 0xF) | 0x30
[15:08:05] <OndraSter> SP8J3 from ROhm
[15:08:06] <buhman> something like bit masks and left-shifts?
[15:08:07] <OndraSter> but they are P
[15:08:30] <OndraSter> buhman, I would simply loop and do bit shift by 4 bits :)
[15:08:30] <specing> oh no, my bad
[15:08:39] <specing> like above but see man ascii
[15:08:50] <specing> OndraSter: swap
[15:08:53] <OndraSter> or that
[15:09:00] <OndraSter> but try doing that in C
[15:09:00] <OndraSter> ;)
[15:09:09] <OndraSter> without asm (..)
[15:09:12] <specing> asm volatile ("swap");
[15:09:14] <specing> done.
[15:09:18] <OndraSter> really?
[15:09:30] <OndraSter> how does it know which reg :P
[15:09:30] <buhman> erm what
[15:09:30] <specing> well you need the register names too
[15:09:38] <OndraSter> let alone if you are working with 32bit values
[15:09:47] <specing> but >> 4 should generate swap ... *should*
[15:09:56] <OndraSter> no it should not :)
[15:09:56] <specing> it should
[15:10:06] <specing> since swap swaps nibbles
[15:10:10] <OndraSter> ANDI Rr, 0xF0
[15:10:10] <OndraSter> SWAP
[15:10:12] <OndraSter> SWAP Rr*
[15:10:14] <OndraSter> maybe this way
[15:10:21] <specing> yes
[15:10:21] <OndraSter> >> 4 actually makes the top four bits zero
[15:10:27] <specing> indeed
[15:10:34] <specing> but it takes 2 more cycles ;)
[15:10:44] <specing> and 4 more bytes
[15:10:44] <Lt_Lemming> oh, p channel
[15:10:44] <Lt_Lemming> ewww
[15:11:54] <buhman> oh, so something like: value >> 0 & 0xf
[15:11:56] <buhman> value >> 4 & 0xf
[15:12:02] <buhman> value >> 8 & 0xf
[15:12:02] <buhman> and so on?
[15:12:10] <OndraSter> how long is the value?
[15:12:11] <buhman> and push all of those on a stack?
[15:12:20] <buhman> OndraSter: int
[15:12:27] <OndraSter> 32?
[15:12:30] <buhman> sure
[15:12:39] <buhman> I have a gigantic LCD screen, why not?
[15:12:44] <OndraSter> :)
[15:13:29] <OndraSter> display_send(cursor_move_left); while(value != 0) display_send((value >> 4 & 0x0F) + '0');
[15:13:58] <buhman> ^ I don't want it to be fixed-width
[15:14:03] <specing> Arent AVR ints 16 bit?
[15:14:10] <buhman> if I move left, I need to know how far to pad to begin with
[15:14:31] <buhman> because I'd need to, ahead of time, shift right to where I want the number to end
[15:14:34] <specing> For fucks sake, include <stdint.h> and use the (u)int(size in bits)_t types
[15:14:46] <buhman> specing: yeah they are
[15:15:05] <specing> It gives me headaches when people use variables of unknown size all over the place
[15:15:19] <buhman> well, char is always 8 right?
[15:15:31] <specing> I just yelled on someone from #gcc because of this
[15:15:43] <buhman> or should I be using int8_t
[15:15:44] <specing> buhman: #include <stdint.h> uint8_t
[15:15:49] <buhman> or that
[15:15:52] <specing> yes
[15:15:53] <buhman> specing: that's preferred?
[15:16:12] <specing> use int8_t if you want signed or uint8_t if you want the other
[15:18:20] <buhman> hrm are there 4-bit types?
[15:21:17] <buhman> OndraSter: erm what about the first digit?
[15:21:25] <OndraSter> hm?
[15:21:32] <OndraSter> you could use simple for() instead
[15:21:42] <specing> buhman: unfortunately no
[15:24:49] <buhman> OndraSter: so is "!= 0" neccessarily better than "> 0"?
[15:24:52] <OndraSter> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2383&p=22759#p22745
[15:24:58] <OndraSter> well
[15:25:01] <OndraSter> it depends on what do you want :)
[15:25:13] <buhman> well both are equivalent in this case
[15:25:25] <buhman> as a result of the left shift we will encounter zero exactly, so...
[15:25:37] <buhman> is the != faster possibly?
[15:26:13] <specing> buhman: yes
[15:27:26] <specing> I guess cpi rx, imm sets carry too, which can be then used by brcs or brcc
[15:31:49] <OndraSter> I found white, red, blue, green solder paints on ebay
[15:32:14] <OndraSter> all $9 for 100g or $2.5/green/10cc $4.6/blue+red/10cc
[15:39:09] <buhman> so if I was doing a uint32_t, that would be 8 digits; if I just wrote a character for every digit (regardless of the minimum number of characters required to represent that uint32_t), worst case that would take 296us to do. In comparison to clearing the entire screen which takes 1.52ms
[15:39:22] <buhman> the only think I don't know how to do is to move the cursor to arbitrary positions in 4-bit mode
[15:40:06] <buhman> I mean clearly I just clock two nibbles...
[15:43:42] <OndraSter> same as in 8bit mode
[15:49:14] <specing> buhman: send 0x80 | position to it
[15:50:56] <buhman> heh, that's too easy :S
[15:52:44] * specing slaps buhman with the 60-page HD44780 datasheet
[15:53:11] * buhman blocks with his 42-page HD44780-cheap-rip-off-datasheet
[15:53:31] <specing> Are you using a library to access the LCD or do you have your own functions for that?
[15:54:36] <buhman> O.O there are libraries to access LCDs?
[15:54:50] <specing> buhman: Wow, didn't you know that?
[15:55:00] * specing wakes up buhman
[15:55:16] <buhman> here's my library: http://sprunge.us/PXcK?c :P
[15:55:31] <specing> So I get it that you have your own functions? How inefficient are they, exactly?
[15:55:53] <buhman> erm minus the part where I don't check the busy flag?
[15:55:55] <buhman> probably pretty good
[15:56:58] <buhman> datasheet says to check BF every >80us after sending an instruction; I just send at what the datasheet says the propagation delay is (commented out there for debugging), and it works fine
[15:58:03] <buhman> my clock is slower than it could be...
[15:58:14] <buhman> because I use a 50% duty cycle
[15:58:59] <buhman> just a bit more state machine nonsense (fiddling with the OCR1A between states) and I could probably go even faster
[16:16:14] <blecha> Hello internets
[16:17:35] <buhman> am I allowed to call functions from inside an ISR?
[16:26:30] <OndraSter> yes
[16:27:12] <blecha> So im working on my basic functions for stuff while i wait for my parts
[16:27:32] <blecha> I also start planning my board, have the psu done and I'm thinking of doing a battery charge checker
[16:28:22] <blecha> I have a 9v battery and 12v wall wort with a couple diodes, caps, and voltage regulator so it all switches over nicely.
[16:28:56] <buhman> heh 9v battery
[16:28:59] <blecha> Im thinking of doing a voltage divider with a tactile button on it that runs to an analog in.
[16:29:07] <blecha> well 8.01 v lol
[16:29:23] <buhman> I wonder what I was thinking when I jumped straight to a ATX PSU
[16:29:30] <buhman> all these people using the 9V batteries...
[16:30:15] <blecha> but I was thinking of doing an interuppt baised on that analog in, if it goes non zero for a certain time display a graph of the charge level.
[16:35:21] <rue_shop3> svn works, the tgz dosnt
[16:56:03] <jadew> hey guys, any idea why avr-gcc would generate bigger code on linux?
[16:57:32] <LoRez> different version of gcc, different options to gcc.
[16:59:12] <specing> pebkac.
[17:01:56] <rue_house> specing, what folder does it rate under where_to
[17:02:13] <specing> unix knows of no folders
[17:02:26] <specing> and prefix offsets /
[17:02:59] <specing> so --prefix=/home/rue would install the compiler into /home/rue/bin/avr-gcc and other stuff in /home/rue/share, etc
[17:09:05] <rue_shop3> I'm installing the library, not the compiler
[17:10:10] <rue_shop3> /usr/lib/avr/include/avr/delay.h
[17:10:15] <rue_shop3> is where the current install is
[17:11:37] <Tom_itx> rue_shop3 what are you trying to do now??
[17:15:19] <specing> I think rue is about to mess up his install ;)
[17:15:44] <rue_house> I'm fixing avr-libc
[17:16:07] <specing> > /home/rue/avr/include/avr/delay.h for --prefix=/home/rue
[17:16:13] <specing> "fixing"?
[17:21:14] <rue_shop3> the debian package library is broken
[17:21:32] <rue_shop3> ah, thanksyou
[17:21:39] <specing> well that is what you get for running debian :P
[17:21:50] <rue_shop3> so /usr/lib
[17:22:23] <rue_shop3> make --prefix=/usr/lib --program-prefix=avr-
[17:22:25] <rue_shop3> yes?
[17:22:28] <specing> I guess
[17:22:39] <rue_shop3> or are those options for confiure
[17:22:52] <specing> I have --prefix=/data/avr-toolchain and it has those files under /data/avr-toolchain/avr/include/avr/delay.h
[17:22:59] <specing> configure
[17:23:37] <rue_shop3> ./configure --build=`./config.guess` --host=avr --prefix=/usr/lib/ --program-prefix=avr-
[17:23:57] <rue_shop3> ?
[17:24:09] <rue_shop3> or will hte options not override the guess?
[17:24:59] <specing> the guess if for --build
[17:25:03] <specing> is*
[17:25:24] <rue_shop3> so your saying I need to run configure twice?
[17:25:47] <rue_shop3> I'm trying to come up witha list of commands to obtain, configure, compile, and install avr-libc
[17:26:20] <specing> no
[17:26:28] <specing> you only run configure once
[17:26:44] <rue_shop3> then what options do I run configure with
[17:27:14] <specing> < rue_shop3> ./configure --build=`./config.guess` --host=avr --prefix=/usr/lib/ --program-prefix=avr-
[17:27:38] <rue_shop3> good thats what I did
[17:27:44] <rue_shop3> so now we have
[17:28:14] <rue_shop3> svn co svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/avr-libc/trunk
[17:28:14] <rue_shop3> ./bootstrap
[17:28:19] <rue_shop3> ./configure --build=`./config.guess` --host=avr --prefix=/usr/lib/ --program-prefix=avr-
[17:28:21] <rue_shop3> make
[17:28:24] <rue_shop3> make install
[17:31:43] <OndraSter_> I think nobody has noticed my link
[17:31:44] <OndraSter_> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2383&p=22759#p22745
[17:34:04] <rue_house> seen now
[17:37:27] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_ you gonna try it?
[17:37:32] <OndraSter_> yeah
[17:37:34] <OndraSter_> already ordered
[17:37:36] <specing> OndraSter_: Easy to solder, huh? The problem is that I can't make boards below 0.8mm of pitch
[17:37:36] <OndraSter_> one from ebay
[17:37:38] <OndraSter_> $2.5
[17:37:47] <OndraSter_> specing, my printer has got issues with 0.8mm as well
[17:37:48] <specing> soldering is a piece of ca3k
[17:37:59] <OndraSter_> but having solder mask is lovely
[17:38:00] <specing> solder flux ftw.
[17:38:07] <blecha> ok finally done with work stuff
[17:38:11] <blecha> woot woot
[17:39:06] <blecha> Is there an easy way to count how many "zeros" there are in an integer?
[17:39:20] <blecha> 1000 = 4
[17:39:48] <specing> 000 are four zeros? Since when?
[17:39:52] <OndraSter_> ;D
[17:39:56] <blecha> Trying to make an int to string function.
[17:40:01] <OndraSter_> i2s?
[17:40:02] <specing> Oh
[17:40:05] <blecha> You know what i mean, places
[17:40:09] <OndraSter_> isn't there already function for that?
[17:40:11] <specing> #include <stdlib.h>
[17:40:33] <specing> itoa(char*, int);
[17:40:54] <OndraSter_> itoa is that function, not i2s :)
[17:41:17] <specing> specing knows.
[17:46:07] <blecha> derp derp
[17:49:01] <specing> slap slap
[17:53:03] <SuperMiguel> How can i read data, from a force sensing resistor ?
[17:54:18] <Tom_itx> resistor divider and adc?
[17:55:43] <specing> Oh the C master is back
[17:56:50] <SuperMiguel> Tom_itx: but how would i get that data? how would i program it?
[17:57:46] <specing> you connect its output to AVRs inputs and perform the necessary voltage/whatever conversion in between
[17:58:13] <specing> you can program it in C++,C,assembly or directly in machine code
[17:58:21] <specing> That is entirely up to you
[18:03:09] <blecha> sorry got busy again
[18:03:51] <blecha> so intoa(*char, int) would take 1000 and put "1000" into char?
[18:04:13] * specing slaps blecha
[18:04:26] <blecha> errr
[18:04:31] <blecha> 1000 is a double isn't it
[18:04:37] * specing slaps blecha again
[18:04:43] <blecha> im all out of whack
[18:04:45] <blecha> brb google
[18:04:45] <kobsu> lol
[18:04:45] <Landon> <double>500
[18:05:00] <blecha> :(
[18:05:06] <blecha> Im trying, its hard to code with no internet
[18:05:15] <blecha> I have a bunch of pdfs but i couldn't find what i needed
[18:05:29] * specing slaps blecha yet again
[18:05:31] <kobsu> no option for copy and paste?:)
[18:05:44] <Landon> quick, someone, paste this man the internet
[18:05:48] <blecha> lol
[18:06:07] <blecha> I have lots of stuff ive been saving but stuff slips through the cracks
[18:06:10] <specing> Did you know you can download the whole wikipedia and access it localy?
[18:06:21] <blecha> How big is it?
[18:06:30] <specing> 30G text-only
[18:06:40] <blecha> damn
[18:06:49] <blecha> I guess i have more modern marvels than that though
[18:08:30] <specing> http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/static_html_dumps/current/en/
[18:09:25] <specing> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps
[18:11:51] <blecha> So I think im going to work on my regular C coding skills and get better with that before all my parts arrive, which should be tomorrow or tuesday :O
[18:13:59] <blecha> Ive been reading man pages a lot more.
[18:14:17] <blecha> I have Learn C the hard way and the C programming languages as pdfs
[18:14:44] <blecha> A pdf on pointers and lots of part specific stuff like the arduino schematic and various data sheets
[18:15:09] <blecha> I really need more general information though, should I already have info somewhere on the standard library if im running linux?
[18:15:30] * specing has a pdf named: a_definitive_guide_to_answering_blecha_on_##avr.pdf
[18:15:34] <blecha> I looked into the man pages for strings.h, but intoa wasn't there
[18:15:49] <blecha> I guess I was just looking in the wrong place :(
[18:15:59] <specing> itoa is AVR only
[18:16:04] <blecha> AH
[18:16:05] <specing> atoi is standard
[18:16:23] <specing> you could have opened stdlib.h
[18:16:46] <blecha> good to know, I've been looking at different headers
[18:16:58] <blecha> like the chip specific ones and such
[18:17:03] <specing> ** \name Non-standard (i.e. non-ISO C) functions.
[18:17:08] <specing> \brief Convert an integer to a string.
[18:17:13] <specing> The function itoa() converts the integer value from \c val into an
[18:17:20] <specing> blablabla...
[18:17:51] <blecha> thanks :)
[18:18:22] <blecha> Im also going to start working on my main task handler tonight
[18:18:40] <blecha> So far the code ive done in C and specifically AVR stuff is pretty crappy...
[18:18:44] <specing> do you have my SConstruct?
[18:18:55] <blecha> no?
[18:19:39] <specing> I should really _really_ *really* publish this stuff one day
[18:19:47] <OndraSter> task handler
[18:19:54] <OndraSter> are you writing an OS?
[18:20:42] <specing> I don't think blecha is going to be writing an OS anytime soon
[18:20:50] <OndraSter> ;D
[18:21:01] <specing> Unless...
[18:21:15] <blecha> I could probably write windows
[18:21:16] <OndraSter> I want to make 80286 emu for AVR :)
[18:21:26] <OndraSter> preferably in ASM so I get really the BEST perfomance ;D
[18:21:30] <specing> You basicaly write an OS every time you code for AVRs
[18:21:37] <blecha> but its a quasi OS, its an alarm clock
[18:21:45] <OndraSter> that is firmware, not OS
[18:21:47] <specing> OndraSter: xmega + EMI?
[18:21:53] <OndraSter> yes
[18:21:54] <OndraSter> :)
[18:22:00] <OndraSter> XBoard Ultra will be my target board :)
[18:22:17] <specing> OndraSter: + SPI to an AVR-VGA bridge
[18:22:50] <OndraSter> no, it will be using either some 320x240 display (or bigger) with some parallel interface
[18:22:51] <OndraSter> serial is TOO slow
[18:22:59] <rue_shop3> damn, didn't work
[18:23:13] <specing> :)
[18:23:17] <specing> rue_shop3: Gentoo :)
[18:24:12] <blecha> I spose there is a string clearing function as well.
[18:24:32] <rue_shop3> i'm NOT reinstalling tis computer for a 6th time to do this
[18:25:05] <specing> rue_shop3: 6th?
[18:25:15] <specing> Why did you install debian in the first place?
[18:25:44] <OndraSter> lol
[18:25:48] <OndraSter> why did you install looniks in the 1st place
[18:25:49] <specing> blecha: memset
[18:25:56] * specing slaps OndraSter
[18:26:07] <blecha> *with a trout
[18:26:14] <blecha> you keep forgetting to include that
[18:26:39] <specing> *with a 15k RPM SCSI disk that weights 3kg with its cooler
[18:26:45] <OndraSter> specing, Atmel has got the best support on windows
[18:27:09] <rue_shop3> specing, your not helping with that
[18:27:21] <specing> OndraSter: That is because the management is retarded
[18:27:31] <OndraSter> lol
[18:27:31] <specing> the management is always retarded
[18:27:41] <blecha> I wondered about that, why are they all for windows?
[18:27:58] <OndraSter> because Windows is majority
[18:28:11] <specing> because business schools teach on windows
[18:28:13] <blecha> random side note: Steam on Linux will soon be a thing!
[18:28:24] <specing> and business schools produce managers
[18:28:38] * specing slaps blecha
[18:28:50] <blecha> What is that for!
[18:29:25] <OndraSter> too bad that majority of IT unis use linux mostly
[18:29:30] <OndraSter> and some linux only even
[18:29:34] <OndraSter> (like the one I a mgoing to)
[18:29:39] <OndraSter> will be fun running vmware or something on 2GB RAM ;D
[18:29:39] <specing> blecha: Unproductivity on Linux will soon be a thing!
[18:29:46] <OndraSter> it already is
[18:29:59] <OndraSter> you spend half a day trying to get the thing working
[18:30:02] <OndraSter> :P
[18:30:09] <blecha> Oh shush, if it gets my girlfriend to convert so I can stop reinstalling windows its a good thing!
[18:30:37] <blecha> OndraSter, but its so important to install aalib and watch movies in ascii!
[18:31:07] <OndraSter> windows vista and 7 don't need reinstalling anymore
[18:31:15] <OndraSter> AND MY BLOODY ROUTER IS DROPPING 90% OF ALL PACKETS ON WIRELESS
[18:31:20] <blecha> Yes they do
[18:31:21] <OndraSter> bloody linux thingy
[18:31:24] <OndraSter> no they do not
[18:31:26] <blecha> user error is still a thing
[18:31:32] <blecha> linux lessens that at least
[18:31:33] <OndraSter> Vista = 1.5 years running fine, then upgraded to 7
[18:31:41] <OndraSter> 7 running for 1.5 years, then changed completely computer
[18:31:54] <OndraSter> now 7 is running for a year and I am getting ready for 8 :)
[18:31:55] <blecha> You are a cautious user, my girlfriend installed a pirated game....
[18:32:16] <OndraSter> *me sings "I have got everything legal!*
[18:32:21] <blecha> I like windows 7 but people aren't safe enough.
[18:32:41] <jadew> linux leasssens user error? how could it do that when you have to go trough tons of docs only to change a line in some random config file
[18:32:46] <OndraSter> lol the second I started complaining about my router it stopped dropping packets
[18:32:56] <OndraSter> jadew, man vim
[18:33:02] <OndraSter> then try closing the man itself :D
[18:33:06] <OndraSter> esc - doesn't work
[18:33:10] <OndraSter> ctrl-c neither
[18:33:13] <OndraSter> it is Q!
[18:33:15] <OndraSter> bloody q
[18:33:26] <OndraSter> (actually ctrl-c might, don't remember anymore)
[18:33:28] <blecha> because most users dont need to change a config file
[18:33:34] <jadew> it's q
[18:33:34] <blecha> they just need a web browser
[18:33:43] <jadew> of course they do
[18:33:54] <OndraSter> regular users won't be using linux
[18:34:00] <OndraSter> they will be using XP or 7
[18:34:01] <blecha> You could make the UI in dutch and most people wouldn't even notice if firefox was installed with english
[18:34:06] <jadew> I haven't had a clean linux install working on me from the start
[18:34:14] <jadew> in at least a decade!
[18:34:25] <OndraSter> lol
[18:34:34] <blecha> OndraSter they should start, besides my girlfriend is a coder. I dont want to lose her to the "visual" side of coding.
[18:34:48] <OndraSter> visual studio?
[18:34:49] <blecha> Yeah
[18:35:16] <OndraSter> visual studio is the best thing for development
[18:35:29] <OndraSter> but none of the linux users can understand that
[18:35:44] <blecha> Its great for developing, its really bad for learning.
[18:35:59] <jadew> it's the best
[18:36:01] <OndraSter> I learned C, C++ and mostly C# in it
[18:36:09] <OndraSter> it is best for everything
[18:36:09] <jadew> same here
[18:36:15] <OndraSter> now also add XAML to it
[18:36:34] <OndraSter> (linux people won't know what it is, because they haven't discovered the beauty of Silverlight/whatever)
[18:36:39] <blecha> She only does VB and C#
[18:36:48] <Landon> the only thing I learned with visual studio is how to make boilerplate code and attach methods to buttons
[18:36:48] <OndraSter> then she has got nowhere to go
[18:36:49] <blecha> silverligh is evil!
[18:36:59] <OndraSter> my phone runs on silverlight
[18:37:21] <blecha> silverlight is the reason netflix is a pain in the ass for linux
[18:37:47] <jadew> I actually tried silverlight when it was in beta and found it to be quite awesome, but I think it will die to html 5, together with flash
[18:37:50] <OndraSter> no netflix for me
[18:38:00] <OndraSter> well, even MS is now pushing HTML5 a lot
[18:38:22] <OndraSter> Silverlight was there to compete with flash - and even though it had a LOT of advantages it didn't get enough attention sadly
[18:38:22] <jadew> because it's great, HTML 5 should have happened 5 years ago
[18:38:24] <blecha> I'm sure adobe is QQing a little.
[18:38:34] <OndraSter> is HTML5 and CSS3 "stable" already or still not?
[18:38:40] <Landon> blecha: I'm tempted to say netflix is the reason netflix is a pain in the ass for linux :( they did some terrible things to their wii interface last year
[18:38:42] <jadew> it's not
[18:38:42] <OndraSter> adobe is pushing HTML5 instead flash as well
[18:39:03] <OndraSter> well, how are browsers supposed to support it when things still change in it :/
[18:39:28] <blecha> yeah I dont use netflix but I was shocked there wasn't a simple option when setting up my brothers desktop
[18:39:31] <OndraSter> Microsoft always sends out one version of IE and doesn't do core feature changes but only bugfixes - just as any other "proper" linux distribution
[18:39:45] <OndraSter> (CentOS for example, you have to upgrade whole centos to get newer set of stuff in applications etc)
[18:39:49] <jadew> it's mostly done, it might be fully ready, but last time I checked they said some aspects were still under discussion
[18:39:50] <specing> < blecha> OndraSter they should start, besides my girlfriend is a coder. I dont want to lose her to the "visual" side of
[18:40:07] <specing> blecha: and you have to reinstall her computer?
[18:40:15] <blecha> yeah :(
[18:40:28] <specing> She is a coder and doesen't know how to install an OS?
[18:40:36] <blecha> She actually went to college, I'm self taught
[18:40:43] <specing> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
[18:40:47] <blecha> I dont know what happened at that school but yeah...
[18:41:08] <blecha> She can kinda code some stuff, she codes with her mouse more than keyboard though.
[18:41:15] <OndraSter> duh
[18:41:23] <OndraSter> I say what
[18:41:28] <specing> blecha: hahahahahahaha
[18:41:37] <OndraSter> code with mouse?
[18:41:40] <OndraSter> copypasting from ascii table?
[18:41:44] <blecha> specing, im not going to have any luck with OndraSter am I?
[18:41:48] <OndraSter> no
[18:41:52] <OndraSter> I am die hard MS fan :D
[18:42:02] <jadew> high 5!
[18:42:04] <jadew> same here
[18:42:24] <blecha> in VB for example, you just add a button, double click to edit its code, then she clicks around to find the names of functions she wants to use
[18:42:31] <specing> You can die hard indeed
[18:42:39] <OndraSter> my phone runs WP7, my tablet PC runs W7, my laptop runs W8 RP, my desktop runs W7, my server runs WS 2008 R2
[18:42:48] <blecha> You can right click, i think, to bring up a menu full of all the applicable functions.
[18:43:07] <OndraSter> ctrl-spacebar is keyboard shortcut, not so sure about mouse way
[18:43:11] <blecha> OndraSter probably knows what im talking
[18:43:36] <blecha> yeah idk, i just know its all kinds of clicking and only types constants or maybe a bit of math
[18:44:02] <blecha> I tried to get her to do python using gedit, but I think she stopped.
[18:44:06] <specing> blecha: ask her to code you a int to string function taking a 32-bit integer and a pointer to a string of sufficient length.
[18:44:12] <OndraSter> :D
[18:44:26] <OndraSter> C# has no pointers (there is one exception though)
[18:44:31] <blecha> :P I'm prety sure I reinvented a lot of wheels the last few days.
[18:44:32] <OndraSter> C# is smart enough to not need them :P
[18:44:38] <blecha> but it was all good learning experience
[18:44:41] <specing> Who cares about C# here?
[18:44:49] <OndraSter> well if she does VB and C#
[18:44:55] <OndraSter> ..
[18:44:56] <blecha> pointers are pretty cool
[18:45:03] <OndraSter> no, not really
[18:45:11] <OndraSter> pointer that points to pointer which might be pointing to something
[18:45:19] <jadew> blecha, that's the kind of thinking that makes your code leak memeory :P
[18:45:19] <OndraSter> bleaurgh
[18:45:24] <specing> void ** ptr;
[18:45:26] <OndraSter> remember early versions of Firefox? :D
[18:45:37] <OndraSter> the ones that took a minute to launch
[18:45:37] <blecha> jadew, like a BP rig baby
[18:45:44] <specing> remember any version of firefox?
[18:45:47] <OndraSter> hehe
[18:45:50] <OndraSter> no not really
[18:45:53] <OndraSter> I use FF only because of webGL
[18:45:57] <OndraSter> to view gerbers.
[18:45:58] <specing> I never used firefox so...
[18:46:02] <jadew> well, FF didn't really have memory leaks (maybe it did, but those were not the problem)
[18:46:19] <OndraSter> IE9 = no webGL, Opera = slow webGL + no drop files support
[18:46:30] <jadew> the problem with FF was that it was "fragmenting" the memory
[18:46:41] <jadew> so eventually it was running out of blocks to allocate
[18:48:53] <blecha> specing what do you use?
[18:49:03] <blecha> You are so 1337 you netcat that shit
[18:49:04] <OndraSter> <he will say chrome surely>
[18:49:11] <jadew> opera
[18:49:11] <OndraSter> telnet ftw
[18:49:30] <blecha> maybe I will telnet some starwars today...
[18:49:30] <jadew> most devs that don't use FF, are using opera for some reason
[18:49:31] <OndraSter> I use Opera.. but the damn thing in latest beta? or something crashes so for ebay and such where I need to win I use IE :D
[18:49:39] <OndraSter> dragonfly
[18:49:43] <OndraSter> awesome thing
[18:51:46] <specing> blecha: uzbl
[18:52:26] <specing> uzbl is the only browser conforming to the UNIX philosophy
[18:52:43] <blecha> UNIX philosophy?
[18:52:48] <specing> most others are becoming self-contained operating systems
[18:52:58] <specing> blecha: do one thing and do it well
[18:53:03] <blecha> pretty much
[18:53:03] <blecha> AH
[18:53:19] <blecha> I assume i can apt-get it?
[18:53:30] <jadew> the unix philosophy = you configure it with vim and you have to read the config file format and what everything means, by reading a 300 pages manual
[18:53:30] <specing> the browser can be controlled by fifos in /tmp
[18:53:52] * specing slaps jadew
[18:54:23] <specing> the unix philosophy does not limit you to using a single editor
[18:54:25] <blecha> I have a special terminal profile for reading man pages :P
[18:54:28] <blecha> I like man pages
[18:56:46] <jadew> I hate man files, I have a really short memory when it comes to things I don't care about
[18:56:59] <jadew> it's basically useless reading that won't help me next time I run into the same problem
[18:58:18] <Kevin`> jadew: windows philosophy: you configure it with a convaluded gui if you are lucky, or a registry editor if you are not. to find something, instead of looking in a manpage, you have to either look through 13 different programs or read message boards until you find someone with the exact same situation
[18:58:46] <jadew> Kevin`: that's if you're a dumb user
[18:58:50] <rue_shop3> maybe if I just compile the whole avr toolchain from scratch
[18:58:52] <jadew> I find windows to be straight forward
[18:59:10] <Kevin`> jadew: I find unix to be straight forward. perhaps you've spent more time in windows
[18:59:30] <jadew> first of all, windows works out of the box with my 3 monitors and when I get updates, my xorg.conf doesn't suddenly stops working
[19:00:03] <jadew> nor my Windows 7 falls back on windows 95, because the new version doesn't handle Xinerama that well
[19:00:24] <jadew> I've spent enough time in both to see what works and what doesn't
[19:00:31] <Kevin`> I don't use three monitors, because I have other stuff on my desk. every time i've tried multiple-monitor stuff it worked though
[19:00:40] <jadew> forced down developer's trought opensource does not
[19:00:46] <Kevin`> however, let me make this perfectly clear, my system is working properly
[19:01:08] <Tom_itx> os wars again?
[19:01:22] <jadew> Kevin`: wanna know what happened last time I installed linux (I see that's fixed now)
[19:01:28] <Kevin`> you not knowing how to set up yours has no bearing on mine or on the os
[19:01:32] <jadew> it mounted ONE of my raid HDDs
[19:02:03] <Kevin`> <3 fakeraid
[19:02:16] <jadew> fakeraid is softraid and it's raid
[19:02:31] <blecha> rue_shop3 I hate days like that
[19:02:33] <Kevin`> fakeraid only exists because of limitations in windows's native software raid
[19:03:04] <jadew> what limitations?
[19:03:07] <jadew> it's because it's cheap
[19:03:18] <blecha> I got into linux when wireless drivers were really behind
[19:03:27] <blecha> Now you dont even have to use ndiswrapper
[19:03:39] <jadew> oh, I remember that
[19:03:40] <Kevin`> jadew: can't boot from non-mirrors. in the past, desktop versions couldn't use redundancy.
[19:03:43] <blecha> most of the time that is, linux is really straight forward in my opinion
[19:04:35] <jadew> Kevin`: so what's your point... that windows has drivers for that because it sucks?
[19:04:46] <specing> < jadew> first of all, windows works out of the box with my 3 monitors and when I get updates, my xorg.conf doesn't suddenly stops working
[19:05:06] <specing> I guess you haven't witnessed windows going into 640x480 mode with 16 colours, have you?
[19:05:07] <Kevin`> jadew: yeah. if windows's software raid was up to the task, fakeraid would have no reason to exist and cause problems :)
[19:05:24] <jadew> specing: I have, when I was uninstalling a video driver
[19:06:24] <specing> heh, I was installing one :P
[19:06:36] <specing> install -> reboot -> 16 colours...
[19:06:39] <Kevin`> it didn't come with the computer out of the box? =p
[19:06:56] <jadew> specing: so a crappy driver
[19:07:07] <specing> ati
[19:07:11] <jadew> I don't think that happens too often now
[19:07:14] <specing> crapdeon
[19:07:24] <specing> happened like 10 days ago
[19:07:28] <specing> with latest drivers
[19:08:15] <jadew> well at least it booted up
[19:08:27] <jadew> ever had a linux box start with a blank screen because of crappy video drivers?
[19:08:36] <jadew> I had
[19:08:49] <Kevin`> jadew: sure. luckily linux can function without graphics drivers. certain other things can't..
[19:09:08] <blecha> Then you can do a usb->serial terminal and debug!
[19:09:19] <jadew> Kevin`: that's the only thing it's good for ;)
[19:09:19] <blecha> that sounds like a fun friday night to me
[19:09:21] <Kevin`> blecha: nah, you just boot it without the graphics on
[19:09:38] <jadew> because most of those cool apps were written with heavy corporate support, since that's what it's made for
[19:09:39] <Kevin`> or with vesa/vga graphics as windows uses, if you are gui-dependent
[19:10:02] <jadew> the GUI part is mostly junk because it's written by noobs who think it would be cool to start an opensource project
[19:10:17] <jadew> or join one
[19:10:17] <Kevin`> jadew: windows 8 vs gnome 2
[19:10:23] <jadew> haven't tried w8 yet
[19:10:34] <jadew> and why not gnome 3?
[19:10:40] <jadew> which is uber shit
[19:11:00] <Kevin`> because that's not what my distro is using
[19:11:03] <Kevin`> ;p
[19:11:07] <jadew> lucky you :)
[19:11:11] <jadew> mine is :P
[19:11:23] <Kevin`> what? you aren't using windows? :o
[19:11:36] <jadew> I'm using both
[19:12:17] <jadew> I like linux for what it can do as a server
[19:12:32] <Kevin`> I dunno, lvm is really great on a desktop too
[19:12:40] <Kevin`> or at least a workstation
[19:12:57] <jadew> haven't tried it
[19:13:42] <jadew> what does it stands for?
[19:13:52] <Kevin`> logical volume manager
[19:14:07] <jadew> ah
[19:15:11] <Kevin`> most people probably first see that with redhat, although they use it really stupidly by default
[19:15:32] <jadew> I don't think I ever used it
[19:15:48] <jadew> it sounds like fake partitions
[19:15:59] <jadew> so basically like easy disaster
[19:17:30] <Kevin`> it's one of those things you need to understand. you wouldn't want a desktop user configuring an iscsi san, for example
[19:17:37] <Kevin`> but it's incredibly useful
[19:18:24] <Kevin`> I haven't had any data loss from it. it's like a filesystem that never (rarely) changes, what's gonna break it
[19:19:11] <jadew> I don't know enough to criticise it, but from what I'm reading it sounds too good to be true
[19:20:21] <jadew> yeah, it sounds really great
[19:39:52] <blecha> server burp
[19:57:10] <rue_shop3> blecha, its been a week tho
[19:57:35] <blecha> What happened?
[19:57:44] <blecha> New computer or did you update software?
[20:01:12] <blecha> specing OndraSter jadew : How much fluctuation should I expect without a RTC? I'm going to have a 16Mhz crystal if that helps.
[20:08:11] <blecha> if I have a battery backup no real need other than accuracy correct?
[20:10:41] <Casper> if you have a crystal, RTC or not, it all depend on your timer
[20:11:14] <Casper> the accuracy of an RTC is only because the RTC have a crystal with the circuit to divice it well
[20:11:28] <Casper> a 16MHz can be a bit problematic
[20:12:16] <Casper> however, 16e6/1024/125/125 = 1 second
[20:12:51] <Casper> so you need a 1024 prescaller, then have the timer count 125, and software count to 125... and you have 1 second exactly
[20:14:23] <Casper> the RTC use 32768, and divide more easilly: 32768/256/128 = 1 second, so just set a prescaller of 256 and the timer need to count only 128 count... no software counting
[20:16:49] <blecha> Any links to tuts or papers?
[20:16:58] <blecha> I have one about timers I believe, which may cover it
[20:17:57] <blecha> Casper http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/abcminiuser/articles/avr_timers_index.php