#avr | Logs for 2012-08-10

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[00:03:31] <buhman> Casper: yes
[00:03:39] <buhman> OndraSter: I'll show you
[00:03:47] <Casper> decoupling caps across the avr?
[00:04:12] <buhman> Casper: target is decoupled;
[00:04:24] <buhman> 2313 is rather hard to decouple; do I need it?
[00:04:32] <buhman> I have the rails decoupled
[00:04:32] <OndraSter> everything has to be
[00:04:33] <OndraSter> should be
[00:04:34] <Casper> try to slow down your programmer
[00:04:43] <OndraSter> -B param
[00:07:30] <buhman> also why is gcc telling me all the sudden that PD7 is undeclared
[00:07:35] <buhman> that constant exists, right?
[00:08:13] <OndraSter> all the sudden?
[00:08:16] <OndraSter> what did you change?
[00:08:32] <OndraSter> well
[00:08:34] <Casper> buhman: does your avr have a pin PD7?
[00:08:37] <OndraSter> there is on PD7 on tiny2313
[00:08:47] <OndraSter> http://hobby-electrons.sourceforge.net/components/ATtiny2313/ATtiny2313.png
[00:08:56] <buhman> oh oops
[00:09:23] <buhman> target is a m1284p; I was using the same script to play with the 2313 and forgot to change it back to 1284p
[00:09:33] <OndraSter> ...
[00:11:15] <buhman> I mean, I only changed avrdude (from the output that should be obvious) but not the gcc stuff
[00:15:41] <OndraSter> so, who was the guy that disliked Arduino so much?
[00:16:21] <Casper> everyone
[00:16:28] <Xark> OndraSter: You mean half the commenters on HackADay? :)
[00:16:29] <OndraSter> I said *so much*
[00:16:38] <OndraSter> there was one person who made "killer shield" for it
[00:16:57] <Xark> FPGA thing?
[00:17:02] <OndraSter> no
[00:17:05] <OndraSter> literally killer shield
[00:17:10] <OndraSter> it had mains plug..
[00:17:27] <OndraSter> and live went to one side, netrual to the other one..
[00:17:28] <OndraSter> ;D
[00:17:31] <Xark> Ahh, yes, I remember that image.
[00:17:38] <buhman> ok, now it does http://sprunge.us/BQDD reliably
[00:17:52] <OndraSter> reliably?
[00:17:53] <buhman> do I need to reduce the resistance on MOSI or something?
[00:17:56] <buhman> OndraSter: yes
[00:17:57] <OndraSter> doesn't seem really reliable
[00:18:11] <Casper> buhman: what is the io clock of your avr?
[00:18:21] <buhman> Casper: 20MHz crystal
[00:18:22] <OndraSter> FUSEs
[00:18:23] <OndraSter> k
[00:18:43] <buhman> OndraSter: want the fuses?
[00:18:46] <OndraSter> no
[00:18:48] <OndraSter> not anymore :)
[00:18:54] <OndraSter> as long as it is properly set to the xtal then no
[00:18:54] <Casper> buhman: with proper fuse (ckopt if avail) and right value caps?
[00:19:10] <buhman> Casper: it talks to other programmers just fine
[00:19:16] <buhman> it's been at 20MHz forever
[00:19:35] <Casper> then your programmer is borked
[00:19:39] <buhman> clearly
[00:19:50] <Casper> me, bed, nite
[00:20:01] <buhman> so I'm asking, if the transmit stuff isn't working, what might be the problem?
[00:20:07] <OndraSter> bb Casper
[00:20:13] <OndraSter> buhman, capacitance on the bus
[00:20:21] <buhman> heh
[00:23:40] <buhman> well, SPI reads appear to work fine
[00:23:44] <buhman> it's the writes that are having trouble
[00:25:32] <OndraSter> happens with multiple chips?
[00:25:41] <OndraSter> do you have connected on the MOSI pin?
[00:25:51] <OndraSter> something connected*
[00:27:27] <buhman> not really
[00:28:16] <buhman> if I modify the code in some way every run, and upload that, none of the uploads have failed so terribly that whatever I told the target to do didn't happen
[00:32:19] <OndraSter> wow
[00:32:22] <OndraSter> TI does free shipping?
[00:32:51] <buhman> there we go; I moved SCK closer to the buffer and things magically start working
[00:33:00] <OndraSter> )
[00:33:01] <OndraSter> ;)
[00:33:02] <OndraSter> long wires?
[00:33:45] <buhman> jumpers yeah
[00:34:26] <buhman> the plan was to line up the mosi/miso/sck/rst in the right order at the end of the breadboard to make wiring to targets require less thinking
[00:34:52] <buhman> so I added extra jumpers from the buffer to where I wanted them to go, and that was causing all of the problems
[00:34:59] <OndraSter> I actually use JTAG whenever I can instead of ISP myself..
[00:35:07] <OndraSter> and I use only mega32 right now in breadboard
[00:35:33] <buhman> well, right, but the point of this was to make a programmer on a breadboard
[00:35:44] <buhman> making a JTAG programmer/debugger on a breadboard would be impossible
[00:35:50] <OndraSter> yes
[00:35:52] <OndraSter> oh
[00:35:56] <OndraSter> you have got WHOLE programmer on a bb
[00:36:01] <buhman> yes
[00:36:03] <OndraSter> :o
[00:36:08] <buhman> I promised you a picture didn't I
[00:36:11] <OndraSter> yes
[00:37:20] <buhman> http://98.23.163.248/isp-breadboard.jpg
[00:37:34] <buhman> the only thing I changed from that is I moved the yellow sck wire closer to the buffer
[00:37:37] <buhman> and it works perfectly now
[00:38:05] <OndraSter> holy cow :o
[00:38:12] <OndraSter> what mega does the USB?
[00:38:22] <buhman> attiny2313
[00:38:39] <OndraSter> it fits V-USB? :o
[00:38:46] <buhman> V-USB?
[00:38:53] <OndraSter> software USB
[00:39:21] <buhman> it's supposedly completely non-standards compliant (5V signaling for one thing), and to go fast enough the firmware is in assembly
[00:39:50] <buhman> even though it can do 20MHz that's only a 12mhz resonator
[00:40:00] <buhman> apparently that makes timings easier
[00:41:06] <OndraSter> yes
[00:41:07] <OndraSter> V-USB :)
[00:41:16] <buhman> http://98.23.163.248/isp-breadboard-old.jpg was the first way I put this together.
[00:41:42] <buhman> putting male headers directly on the usb connector ended up breaking the connector/causing it to short internally
[00:42:09] <buhman> and it was a crap connector to begin with, so I got a much sturdier one pictured, and didn't use male headers (stripped cat5 instead)
[00:44:02] <buhman> there's also more capacitance between the buffer and the 2313 that I could eliminate if I wanted to
[00:44:11] <buhman> but it seems to not cause that huge of a problem
[00:47:29] <OndraSter> Farnell: 4€ (approx) + shipping
[00:47:34] <OndraSter> Mouser: 4.38€ + shipping
[00:47:41] <OndraSter> TI: $4.30 + free shipping
[00:47:46] <OndraSter> the choice was simple!
[00:47:56] <OndraSter> I like when manufacturers actually do this kind of stuff :)
[00:48:01] <OndraSter> sell it themselves
[00:51:03] <buhman> wow
[00:51:12] <buhman> cheaper and free shipping
[00:51:22] <buhman> was that just one component?
[00:51:49] <OndraSter> it was TI MSP Launchpad
[00:51:53] <OndraSter> go look that up :)
[00:52:10] <OndraSter> TI is making losses on that, but they have a good reason for that
[00:52:17] <OndraSter> they are trying to push TI MSP to the broad
[00:52:24] <OndraSter> just as I will be trying to push XMegas into the broad :)
[01:13:32] <Xark> Hopefully you won't have to have too sell at too much of a loss. :)
[01:15:12] <Xark> I think STM has some cheap STM32 ARM dev boards with accelerometers and other doodads for ~$15 when the bare CPU chip costs significantly more I believe. :)
[01:18:58] <OndraSter> me with a loss?
[01:19:03] <OndraSter> http://myxboard.net/compare.html
[01:19:09] <OndraSter> (hugely WIP)
[01:19:43] <OndraSter> parts costs: XBoard coco: 10€/1pcs, 7€/100pcs (IIRC); XBoard Mini: 6€/1pcs, 4€/100pcs
[01:37:24] <Xark> Nice. Wait...16MB RAM? Is that a typo? :)
[01:39:54] <Xark> I see 16MB SDRAM. That is pretty cool.
[01:41:04] <Xark> What is the main difference between A3 and A4 Xmega?
[01:42:55] * Xark wants to get a Xboard coco just for the cute cat logo. :)
[01:48:40] <OndraSter> Xark, check the compare list :)
[01:51:10] <Xark> I see the list, but there is no "apples to apples" Xmega A3U vs Xmega A4U so it is hard to know if the difference is due to smaller pins or newer CPU features.
[01:51:32] <Xark> I am aware of differences between Xmega and ATmega (more or less, I am a newbie on Xmega).
[01:53:12] <OndraSter> if the difference is due to smaller pins or newer CPU features.
[01:53:13] <OndraSter> both :)
[01:54:39] <OndraSter> a4 = 44 pin
[01:54:41] <OndraSter> a3 = 64pin
[01:54:43] <OndraSter> a1 = 100 pin
[01:55:04] <OndraSter> then there are C3, D4/D3 etc
[01:55:13] <OndraSter> but D series has got crappy ADC and doesn't have USB etc
[01:55:15] <Xark> Ahh, thanks, that is the tidbit I was missing. It isn't a family, it is a chip size. :)
[01:55:59] <OndraSter> the core is the same (AVR), but less pins and less peripherals
[01:56:13] <OndraSter> some peripherals are the same (8 channels event system, 4 channels DMA etc)
[01:56:22] <OndraSter> but EBI is only on 100pin devices etc
[01:56:28] <OndraSter> and yes, it is 16MB SDRAM
[01:56:33] <Xark> Gotcha. That makes sense.
[01:56:36] <OndraSter> actually it is 32MB, but half is pissed away
[01:56:47] <OndraSter> because 16bit 32MB is 4 times cheaper than 8bit 16MB
[01:56:55] <Xark> Haha. That is using XRAM interface (new to Xmega)?
[01:57:03] <OndraSter> something like XMEM, yes
[01:57:05] <OndraSter> but with SDRAM support
[01:57:18] <OndraSter> because Alliance makes supercheap chips... but only 16bit. ISSI makes 8bit as well, but expensive :)
[01:57:31] <Xark> I see.
[01:57:54] <Xark> You can implement bank switching. :)
[01:58:03] <OndraSter> not really
[01:58:08] <OndraSter> you'd have to have multiplexer
[01:58:13] <OndraSter> it is possible of course
[01:58:23] <OndraSter> but you'd have to manage yourself the switching etc
[01:58:28] <Xark> Ahh. I see what you mean. PITA.
[01:58:29] <OndraSter> and with 16MB I am sure it is not worth it :D
[01:58:52] <Xark> 16MB is already rounded up to nearly infinite on 8-bit AVR. :)
[01:58:56] <OndraSter> ;)
[01:59:03] <OndraSter> keep believing that :D
[01:59:40] <Xark> Hehe, well I am working with typically way less (2K or 8K/16K on the "luxury" parts). :)
[02:00:56] <OndraSter> I will have a lot of stuff to play with till the holiday end :)
[02:01:00] <OndraSter> (month and a week)
[02:01:02] <OndraSter> http://wiki.steve-m.de/epaper_display
[02:01:04] <OndraSter> I bought today this
[02:01:08] <OndraSter> Motorola F3
[02:01:15] <OndraSter> for $4.4 incl. shipping :D
[02:01:23] <OndraSter> without battery and back cover
[02:01:26] <OndraSter> which I don't mind
[02:02:00] <Xark> Thats pretty neat. Comes with classic Motorola logo too. :)
[02:02:10] <OndraSter> yep
[02:02:40] <Xark> So that is 0 current except when changing kind of e-paper?
[02:02:45] <OndraSter> yes
[02:03:07] <OndraSter> you can cut the power to it and it still holds the picture
[02:03:09] <OndraSter> lovely isn't it
[02:03:48] <OndraSter> I have also ordered the TI Launchpad
[02:10:34] <Xark> I have a launchpad too. As you mentioned I couldn't resist the "bait" from TI. :) Did you get the newer revision (which I guess just recently came out)?
[02:11:19] <OndraSter> no idea
[02:11:24] <OndraSter> I looked up ti launchpad
[02:11:25] <OndraSter> and ordered it
[02:12:08] <Xark> If you just did then good chance you will get the new revision. No biggie, just includes a few minor board features and includes more powerful MSP chips.
[02:12:27] <OndraSter> ah
[02:13:21] <OndraSter> MSP-EXP430G2
[02:13:54] <Xark> http://www.43oh.com/2011/12/confirmed-ti-shipping-launchpads-with-msp430g2553-and-msp430g2452/
[02:14:07] <OndraSter> yeah those are written on that
[02:14:16] <OndraSter> paeg
[02:14:18] <OndraSter> page
[02:23:10] <OndraSter> hmm I have partially cleaned my room
[02:23:20] <OndraSter> my mum doesn't yet know that I will be receiving toaster oven today
[02:23:21] <OndraSter> lol
[02:23:45] <Xark> Mmmm, baking up some PCB goodness, I assume? :)
[02:23:50] <OndraSter> ay
[02:24:27] <OndraSter> XBoards and such :)
[02:24:29] <Xark> That sounds fun. I have a toaster oven in the garage (old one from the office) I was pondering converting....
[02:24:42] <OndraSter> I have got even great display for it :D
[02:24:58] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/32413849
[02:24:58] <Xark> Sweet.
[02:25:02] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/32413845
[02:25:07] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/32413837
[02:25:10] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/32413835
[02:25:13] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/32413801
[02:25:15] <OndraSter> :)
[02:26:08] <Xark> Very nice.
[02:26:30] <Xark> Perfect for an oven.
[02:26:35] <OndraSter> yep :D
[02:26:38] <OndraSter> it is from a microwave
[02:26:41] <OndraSter> funny story about that microwave
[02:26:55] <OndraSter> my dad brought me his microwave that it powers on but doesn't heat up anything with mw, only with grill
[02:27:06] <OndraSter> so I told him "if it is anything in HV, I am not sure I will be able to fix it"
[02:27:09] <OndraSter> okay, so I took it apart
[02:27:12] <OndraSter> I saw some white box..
[02:27:14] <OndraSter> I opened it and..
[02:27:15] <OndraSter> BOOM
[02:27:20] <OndraSter> 5kV 0.7A fuse
[02:27:29] <OndraSter> now where to get one relatively quickly and cheaply..
[02:27:39] <OndraSter> local stores? nope, either 0.6A or different packaging.
[02:27:52] <OndraSter> local ebay-like website? either 0.6A or molded into plastic casing
[02:28:01] <OndraSter> so I randomly bought random microwave that had burnt the rotating motor
[02:28:06] <OndraSter> for 1 CZK + 150 CZK shipping (lol)
[02:28:11] <OndraSter> (25 CZK = 1 EUR)
[02:28:16] <OndraSter> took it apart
[02:28:20] <OndraSter> and voila, the same fuse was in there :D
[02:28:27] <OndraSter> I stripped it to the last screw
[02:28:42] <OndraSter> and kept all the electronics including the transformer and the front panel electronics
[02:29:34] <Xark> Helping to save the planet recycling, saving your dad money and getting some sweet parts too. Win-win-win. :D
[02:29:41] <OndraSter> yeah
[02:29:53] <OndraSter> the previous owner of the burnt microwave appearantly really enjoyed popcorn
[02:30:00] <OndraSter> I had to take the microwave outside
[02:30:03] <OndraSter> it was smelling awful
[02:30:52] <Xark> Haha, I can imagine. Microwaves were banned at my office after one too many people made a "toxic" burnt popcorn plume (that lingers for days...). :)
[02:47:33] <buhman> OndraSter: is there a reason why something like an entire "row" is on at once?
[02:47:49] <buhman> column/whatever
[02:47:50] <OndraSter> buhman, now you are talking about what?
[02:47:59] <buhman> OndraSter: your microwave displace
[02:48:01] <OndraSter> oh
[02:48:02] <OndraSter> yes
[02:48:02] <buhman> display*
[02:48:10] <OndraSter> because I was quickly displaying each "bit"
[02:48:17] <OndraSter> but tied always one common anode to Vcc
[02:48:24] <buhman> O.o oh.
[02:48:29] <OndraSter> I wanted to light it all up
[02:48:38] <OndraSter> but my 1-2-3 code wasn't optimalized for it
[02:48:39] <buhman> so it's got a controller behind it you're saying
[02:48:46] <OndraSter> I used atmega behind it
[02:48:51] <OndraSter> originally there was some 4bit micro
[02:48:58] <OndraSter> to which I can't find full datasheet
[02:49:03] <OndraSter> always only first 4 pages
[02:49:18] <buhman> so your atmega was directly connected to each individual lamp?
[02:49:35] <OndraSter> yes
[02:49:38] <OndraSter> and few ohms resistor on vcc
[02:49:43] <OndraSter> (don't remember how much I used)
[02:49:57] <buhman> O.o wouldn't you want resistors on each lamp individually?
[02:50:07] <OndraSter> originally I wanted to lit up one by one
[02:50:19] <OndraSter> why?
[02:50:25] <OndraSter> each one is lit up individually
[02:50:26] <OndraSter> was
[02:50:32] <OndraSter> the resistor was on anode
[02:50:56] <buhman> well, I mean if you do serial resistance for the entire screen, the brightness of each lamp would change depending on the total number of lamps illuminated
[02:51:08] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> each one is lit up individually
[02:51:14] <OndraSter> like I said
[02:51:15] <OndraSter> 123 code
[02:51:24] <buhman> like one anode and cathode for each?
[02:51:27] <buhman> that sounds strance
[02:51:30] <buhman> strange
[02:51:35] <OndraSter> sorry, I haven't slept for a long time
[02:51:40] <OndraSter> I have got no idea what you are talking about :D
[02:51:50] <buhman> it should be like common-cathode, right?
[02:51:58] <OndraSter> these are common anode
[02:52:12] <buhman> erm, whatever; so you're taking the common anode, and putting a resistor on that?
[02:52:18] <OndraSter> yes
[02:52:29] <buhman> that's non-optimal I would think
[02:52:42] <buhman> (but what do I know, I'm a nooblet)
[02:53:05] <OndraSter> it is whatever it is
[02:53:09] <OndraSter> let me repeat myself
[02:53:10] <buhman> OndraSter: should be a resistor for each cathode.
[02:53:11] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> 123 code
[02:53:15] <OndraSter> doesn't matter
[02:53:24] <OndraSter> if you lit up ONE diode at once
[02:53:30] <buhman> I have no idea what "123 code" is
[02:53:33] <buhman> neither does google
[02:53:37] <OndraSter> 1 2 3 seconds - done
[02:53:38] <buhman> seems to be a term you invented
[02:53:59] <OndraSter> code you write in 3 seconds
[02:54:21] <buhman> Oh
[02:54:28] <buhman> see, "3-second code" would make more sense
[02:54:47] <buhman> barely
[02:54:51] <OndraSter> it was just to see how they all lit up
[02:55:00] <OndraSter> what colours
[02:55:05] <buhman> "code I spent 3 seconds writing to see how they all lit up" would be optimal
[02:55:13] <OndraSter> I see that now as well
[03:06:37] <buhman> OndraSter: O.o it was the resonator too
[03:08:40] <OndraSter> which one?
[03:10:44] <buhman> OndraSter: erm, there were actually a few more tiny problems like "avrdude: error: usbtiny_send: Input/output error (expected 128, got -5)"
[03:11:13] <buhman> I had jumpered the resonator to the opposite side of the breadboard; apparently that caused too much capacitance also
[03:11:56] <buhman> things started working *even better* once I moved it back over and reduced the total number of tie-points between the resonator and the uC
[03:12:19] <buhman> I really hate that resonator; it's much harder to put on a breadboard than a crystal.
[05:17:03] <buhman> I have a new mega162; I try to talk to it over ISP, but it doesn't want to talk with me
[05:17:37] <buhman> I thought I might try hvpp'ing it (I have an avr dragon), but I can't find the appropriate pinout for HVPP
[05:31:02] <buhman> LOL
[05:31:11] <buhman> turns out I grabbed the wrong uC
[05:31:20] <buhman> I was wiring a 644 as if it was a 162
[05:31:27] <buhman> that worked out brilliantly
[05:32:12] <Steffanx> oops
[05:41:58] <buhman> http://98.23.163.248/m162-sram.jpg am I doing it right? :D
[05:42:57] <karlp> no. just no.
[05:47:40] <Steffanx> perfect, clean desk buhman :D
[05:57:28] <buhman> Steffanx: heh
[05:57:36] <buhman> no I have more to build
[05:57:50] <buhman> that's only the edge of the mess actually
[05:57:59] <buhman> it gets worse
[05:58:05] <buhman> much worse
[06:58:40] <specing> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/AVR-Options.html#AVR-Options good reading
[07:56:24] <Blecha> Good morning internets :D
[07:58:25] <specing> Amazing, wrote 0x30 to lcd and got ? on the screen
[07:59:00] <Steffanx> Good job
[07:59:20] <specing> ? is 0x3F
[07:59:30] <specing> dafuq is going on?
[07:59:33] <Blecha> I got my paycheck today :D
[07:59:36] * specing tries 'a'
[07:59:41] <Blecha> I can order my chips and such!
[08:00:17] <Blecha> also, I did my first programming purely in C. All it was was a serial eeprom editor but still!
[08:00:37] <specing> wrote 0x41 'a' and got 0x4f 'O'
[08:00:51] <Blecha> hmmm
[08:01:58] <Blecha> I had a weird bug(?) last night, I made a while loop to go through eeprom but wasn't sure where to stop it so I just let it loop with higher and higher values... eventually it just got back to 0 again without me resetting the value of the integer.
[08:02:16] <Blecha> and specing... I have no idea. I'm sorry for my noob :(
[08:02:21] <specing> wrote '+' and got '/'
[08:02:44] <specing> It seems that whatever I do I only get the bottom character in a column
[08:02:54] <specing> meaning xf
[08:02:58] <specing> whatever I do...
[08:03:56] <Blecha> Did you try talking to it calmly?
[08:04:09] <specing> calmly?
[08:04:20] <Blecha> "Shhh shhh its ok"
[08:06:59] * specing looks at his code
[08:07:43] <specing> HD44780_W8B (input.param[2]);
[08:07:52] <specing> This should have written both nibbles...
[08:09:57] <Steffanx> Try to explain it to your mother, maybe you'll get the eureka-moment while you explain
[08:10:38] <Steffanx> or get a rubber duck
[08:11:16] <Blecha> Yeah my GF is a great rubber duck, sometimes my dog works.
[08:11:27] <Blecha> Would this work for my AVR needs? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATS16B/CTX1085-ND/2640031
[08:11:40] <Blecha> and what all do I need to get it going, caps
[08:11:45] <specing> well the host code seems to send the right stuff
[08:11:54] <specing> Steffanx: :D
[08:12:30] <specing> Blecha: get a 18.432 MHz one, too
[08:12:53] <specing> and some 15pf caps
[08:13:00] <specing> they seem to universaly work here
[08:15:02] <specing> oh and get atleast 5 of each colour of LEDs
[08:15:17] <specing> and 50 1k resistorss
[08:15:36] <specing> and maybe some cheap 8x2 character display module ;P
[08:16:05] <specing> and trimmer pods
[08:16:51] <specing> and get an usb connector so you can power your protoboard from usb
[08:17:14] <specing> I recommend mini or micro as bigger ones have very heavy cables
[08:21:54] <Blecha> specing thanks
[08:23:48] <specing> I have no idea what is wrong here :(
[08:25:02] <Blecha> I have other components to play with
[08:25:13] <Blecha> tons of resistors, some caps, and leds galore
[08:25:37] <Blecha> Mostly just need to get the xtals and caps to make a reliable serial connection
[08:25:42] <Blecha> Do i need caps?
[08:25:50] <Blecha> and what values would i need?
[08:26:00] <Blecha> the load capacitance on the shee?
[08:26:59] <Blecha> also specing, I want to get a cool display module of some kind. First project is going to be an alarm clock that requires me to do progressively harder math problems before I can snooze.
[08:27:30] <specing> hahaha
[08:27:49] <specing> That one is going to take a while to develop
[08:28:05] <Blecha> Maybe
[08:28:28] <Blecha> Biggest thing is figuring out the interface, like how to select my answer.
[08:28:36] <Blecha> dunno if it should be multiple choice
[08:28:49] <Blecha> or be really mean to myself and make me answer in binary!
[08:33:51] <specing> I don't think it will be possible to snooze then
[08:35:33] <OndraSter> morning
[08:35:39] <specing> OndraSter!
[08:35:41] <OndraSter> The toaster oven is so sweet!
[08:35:50] <OndraSter> so small and cute :D
[08:36:07] <specing> Why is the HD44780 ignoring the lower nibble when I try to write data to the screen?
[08:36:41] <OndraSter> erm... didn't you use 4bit mode?
[08:37:45] <specing> I did
[08:38:07] <specing> Display mode seems to be set alright and it is defined by the lower nibble...
[08:38:34] <OndraSter> hmm
[08:40:30] <specing> Do I have to write ASCII codes to DDRAM or CGRAM to make them show on the screen?
[08:41:07] <OndraSter> ddr
[08:41:18] <OndraSter> am
[08:41:29] <OndraSter> cgram if you have your own characters
[08:41:44] <OndraSter> you can put those into those eight(?) free spots
[08:41:47] <OndraSter> and then via DDRAM show them
[08:42:13] <OndraSter> *might not be 8 characters on all modules, some have got 4 or 2 empty only!
[08:44:57] <Blecha> Specing thats the point, i am a chronic snoozer
[08:45:16] <karlp> you're a chronic snoozer because you set your alarm too early
[08:45:23] <Blecha> I will put off getting out of bed till the last possible minute, sometimes it bites me in the ass because i spend an extra few minutes searching for something.
[08:45:23] <karlp> when you have no real pressing obligation to be anywhere
[08:45:25] <karlp> set it later.
[08:45:33] <karlp> less snoozes.
[08:45:40] <specing> Ok wtf just happened
[08:45:44] <Blecha> I have work at 7am, set it for 5:45 and snooze twice
[08:45:46] <specing> argc= 0 LCD 2 Params: 0 128 4c 00 00 ffffff80
[08:45:52] <Blecha> on a normal day, witha 10 minute snooze
[08:46:15] <specing> I think I have gcc somewhere in there doing some black magic.
[08:46:46] <specing> and DDRAM address just went to the right end of the 16x2 module
[08:46:57] <specing> I wrote 0x80 with RS=0
[08:47:09] <specing> ended up with 0x8f with RS=0
[08:49:19] <specing> 4c 00 00 ffffff80 is the packet disasm
[08:51:21] <specing> I think my termios routines are b0rked
[08:51:41] <specing> Since I pass the packet data as char, which is signed
[08:52:39] <specing> dunno why I end up with the lower nibble as 0b1111
[08:52:56] <OndraSter> show us the code! show us the code!
[08:53:24] <Blecha> specing thats kinda like the eeprom thing i was talking about
[08:53:40] <specing> Nah, its ugly
[08:53:54] <specing> :D
[08:54:12] <Blecha> I made some code do dump eprom over serial last night, and I wasn't sure where to stop it so I just let it run. Eventually it looped around and ended up at 0 again without me changing the incrementor at all...
[08:54:29] <OndraSter> :)
[08:54:35] <OndraSter> I dumped few EPROMs in the past week or two
[08:54:53] <OndraSter> for 16Kbit ones I connected them directly, For bigger ones I had to use shift registers...
[08:55:16] <Blecha> this was the 328 so I believe it ended at 1k
[08:55:32] <OndraSter> I simply loop it from 0 to max size
[08:55:35] <OndraSter> and send it to serial
[08:55:42] <Blecha> yeah thats what ive been doing
[08:55:42] <OndraSter> where it is picked up by simple application that dumps it into the file
[08:56:35] <Blecha> so any explanation OndraSter?
[08:59:24] <OndraSter> to what?
[08:59:31] <specing> Fucking signed shit everywhere
[08:59:32] <OndraSter> I went to sleep in the morning
[08:59:40] <OndraSter> and I am still half sleeping
[08:59:59] <CapnKernel> Lately I've been wondering
[09:00:05] <CapnKernel> Does OndraSter ever sleep?
[09:00:18] <CapnKernel> Now I realise he does, but he does it by batching it up and doing it in bulk.
[09:00:24] <CapnKernel> Like now :-)
[09:01:08] <OndraSter> "Don't immerse in liquid
[09:01:13] <OndraSter> is written on the toaster oven
[09:01:17] <OndraSter> I do wonder which american tried it
[09:01:27] <Blecha> OndraSter dumping my eeprom from 0 to infinity, instead of wiggin out and killing stuff, once it hit 1k it just started over again at 0
[09:01:37] <CapnKernel> "Caution: Contents may be hot"
[09:01:58] <Blecha> HEY! I have to live in america, you guys only read about the stupidity!
[09:04:07] <Blecha> http://www.siriusmicro.com/projects/b1.pdf Ok, im looking at this and my xtal data sheet. I know what caps I need, but how do I calculated the resistor value?
[09:05:56] <specing> resistor?
[09:05:59] <specing> what resistor?
[09:09:46] <Blecha> Resistor between one of the xtal leads and an xtal pin
[09:11:49] <specing> one of?
[09:11:58] * specing did not open the link above ^ :D
[09:22:12] <OndraSter> oh bloody hell, the toaster oven is super cheap
[09:22:25] <OndraSter> it took me like 5 minutes to put the two cheap side plates put on
[09:22:30] <OndraSter> but now I know how!
[09:22:54] <OndraSter> and luckily there are two 300W heaters.. one on the top, one on the bottom
[09:22:57] <OndraSter> it is REALLY small
[09:23:04] <OndraSter> like 12x17cm
[09:23:06] <OndraSter> inside
[09:23:59] <Blecha> so after opening that page, what do you think?
[09:24:05] <Blecha> is that resistor there for a reason?
[09:24:22] <OndraSter> no idea
[09:24:25] <OndraSter> but I never used it
[09:25:55] <OndraSter> now to make the controller
[09:26:01] <OndraSter> I have got the triac board actually ready for a long time
[09:26:02] <Blecha> yeah i read further and it said its only for some xtals
[09:26:03] <OndraSter> two even!
[09:26:21] <Blecha> and its value is of no importance
[09:26:32] <OndraSter> check atmel's appnotes
[09:26:34] <OndraSter> there is none
[09:28:22] <Blecha> cool so fuck it, also does cap type make any difference here?
[09:28:35] <OndraSter> well there is only one type of caps with such low values
[09:28:44] <OndraSter> (I hope :D)
[09:28:48] <OndraSter> ceramics
[09:30:25] <Blecha> So this will work for my needs? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/K180J10C0GF5TH5/K180J10C0GF5TH5-ND/2821279
[09:30:46] <Blecha> and didn't someone say to order some other 18 something crystal?
[09:31:01] <OndraSter> well, will you be doing 10 000 boards?
[09:31:02] <Blecha> specing ^ why?
[09:31:11] <Blecha> No just playing around for now
[09:31:14] <OndraSter> well
[09:31:20] <OndraSter> then this part has minimum order of 20k :D
[09:31:29] <OndraSter> or is the page on digikey lying
[09:32:42] <Blecha> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/K180J10C0GF5TH5/K180J10C0GF5TH5-ND/2821279
[09:32:49] <Blecha> there we go :D
[09:32:59] <karlp> if you read the sheets and plug in the forumlas, normally you end up witht he resistor being zero
[09:33:12] <OndraSter> Blecha, it is the same link :D
[09:35:45] <Blecha> ...
[09:35:57] <Blecha> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FK28C0G1H180J/445-4717-ND/2050066
[09:36:01] <Blecha> HA!
[09:36:44] <Blecha> oh nvm
[09:36:45] <Blecha> Thats what you get punk...
[09:36:46] <karlp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qAVqLpSxllI
[09:36:51] <karlp> oh, sorry
[09:36:55] <karlp> that was meant for ##stm32
[09:37:04] <OndraSter> yes, Blecha
[09:37:06] <OndraSter> 18pF
[09:37:36] <Blecha> cool
[09:37:52] <Blecha> Now on to the fun part of my order!
[09:37:59] <Blecha> Display modules :D
[09:38:14] <OndraSter> which ones?
[09:38:36] <Blecha> Any of them
[09:38:41] <Blecha> My order so far is cheap
[09:38:49] <Blecha> ATS16B - crystal FK28C0G1H180J - loading caps atmega168 - big avr attiny45 - small avr
[09:38:56] <OndraSter> as in, 7 segment or 8x8 matrix or whatever?
[09:39:08] <Blecha> either or, not sure how i want to do this yet
[09:39:18] <Blecha> I like the idea of some matrices
[09:39:24] <OndraSter> about matrices..
[09:39:28] <Blecha> or an lcd text display
[09:39:39] <Blecha> Ive worked with multiplexing dont worry :d
[09:39:48] <OndraSter> http://sdrv.ms/OWI5Wj
[09:40:00] <Blecha> I made a persistance of vision display with my arduino.
[09:40:45] <Blecha> I figure a 2x1 8x8 setup would work pretty well for my needs
[09:40:57] <Blecha> maybe 3x1
[09:41:01] <OndraSter> :P
[09:41:06] <OndraSter> I have got 6x4
[09:41:20] <OndraSter> it is all driven by one mega128a and a lot of shift registers :D
[09:41:21] <Blecha> and 2 color
[09:41:27] <OndraSter> ay
[09:41:33] <OndraSter> RGB ones cost too much already
[09:41:33] <Blecha> I'm thinking of nabbing some shift registers while im at it
[09:41:38] <Blecha> yeah fuck that
[09:41:46] <OndraSter> but red&green are cheap
[09:42:02] <Blecha> Don't they sell matrixes with built in shift register\
[09:42:12] <OndraSter> maybe on seeed
[09:42:22] <OndraSter> as in with small board that contains shift register and something
[09:56:12] <OndraSter> hmm.. mega168 with hardware SPI + UART vs tiny85/44 with USI for UART and software SPI... what a dilemma!
[09:56:40] <OndraSter> or I could migrate the display into the mega168 as well and drop the tiny2313
[09:57:19] <specing> I think my LCD library is nagging :|
[09:58:11] <specing> OndraSter: versus XMEGA with DMA and more goodies... what a dilemma!
[09:58:20] <OndraSter> well it is simple
[09:58:23] <OndraSter> I don't need DMA
[10:04:48] <Blecha> sorry was afk, silly work
[10:05:37] <Blecha> OndraSter im going to have to play with the USI when i get these in. If getting the USART going was any indicator it should be a pain in the ass.
[10:05:57] <OndraSter> yes, USI is a pain in the ass IMHO :D
[10:05:58] <specing> :)
[10:06:06] <Blecha> that was mostly because i didn't have any example code that matched what i needed, had to piece it together from a data sheet and online
[10:06:11] <karlp> drop a cortex and have 3 uarts and 2 spis and not have to choose between them
[10:06:18] <specing> I didn't even bother getting USI serial working
[10:06:28] <specing> I went straight to bitbanging it
[10:06:30] <Blecha> yeah im going to at least TRY to get it goin
[10:06:42] <Blecha> specing, might end up doing that
[10:06:54] <OndraSter> guys, bipolar tranzistors drop ~1V on them, right?
[10:07:02] <OndraSter> I always used only unipolar :D
[10:07:06] <OndraSter> transistors*
[10:07:12] <specing> transistors with the bipolar disorder? Oh my.
[10:07:21] <OndraSter> :D
[10:07:23] <OndraSter> PNP and NPN..
[10:12:36] <OndraSter> the drop is actually fine with me, since vcc is 5V and LEDs are for.. less than that
[10:13:04] <Blecha> pfff who needs transistors
[10:13:08] * Blecha trollface.jpg
[10:13:31] <OndraSter> the one who wants to supply half an amp through atmega pin
[10:13:35] <OndraSter> (or whatever)
[10:13:40] <OndraSter> more than those 20 or 40mA
[10:19:18] <specing> Blecha: I have a small mosfet here that can switch about 400W
[10:40:59] <specing> Something is wrong with the LCD routines
[10:41:18] <specing> I tried W8B (0x30); directly in code... '?
[10:51:48] <Blecha> ok done with the morning stuff
[10:51:58] <Blecha> back to hunting for display modules
[11:01:32] <OndraSter> guys, I am looking for the *simplest* constant current transistor circuit that I could switch off and on via microcontroller. I was hoping to get 1-transistor solution but I doubt that :)
[11:01:37] <OndraSter> bloody mixing red & green LEDs!
[11:08:40] <Blecha> wow 36 for an lcd on digikey
[11:08:53] <Blecha> vs 3.30 for a matrix
[11:11:31] <specing> 36?
[11:11:39] <specing> What were you looking at?
[11:11:55] <specing> 8x2 display is $4-5
[11:16:49] <Blecha> oh hey look at you smarty pants
[11:17:13] <Blecha> I was searching for "matrix" and it pulled up certain ones i guess
[11:19:13] <Blecha> ... im still doing something wrong
[11:20:53] <Blecha> specing I can't find any on digikey for that price
[11:21:03] <Blecha> not sure why
[11:21:18] <Blecha> 8.25 is the cheapest 8x2
[11:22:43] <specing> Blecha: I bought a 3.5 Euro 8x2 module from FARNELL FFS
[11:23:37] <Blecha> Do they ship out of the US?
[11:23:40] <OndraSter> I bought for $2.5 or whatever 16x2 :(
[11:24:04] <Blecha> Where at?
[11:24:08] <OndraSter> ebay
[11:24:17] <Blecha> ah china?
[11:24:21] <OndraSter> ay
[11:25:44] <Blecha> man all these places seem so much more expensive
[11:25:49] <Blecha> I might just go with a matrix
[11:26:19] <Blecha> best ive found for any kind of character lcd is $7
[11:29:48] <Blecha> What do you guys think of this http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LCM-S01602DTR%2FM/67-1781-ND/469805
[11:30:10] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-1602-16x2-HD44780-Character-LCD-Display-Module-LCM-blue-blacklight-New-/251049844026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a73bc9d3a
[11:30:15] <OndraSter> that china has it for 2.5 bucks
[11:30:25] <OndraSter> well
[11:30:28] <OndraSter> it is not the same
[11:30:42] <OndraSter> the chinese has backlight
[11:31:27] <Blecha> ... fuckin china man!
[11:31:37] <OndraSter> well yes
[11:31:39] <OndraSter> so?
[11:31:42] <OndraSter> tl431
[11:31:46] <OndraSter> wrong window
[11:32:52] <Blecha> hmm what about this http://adafruit.com/products/181
[11:35:22] <Blecha> oh and i forgot all about sparkfun
[11:39:44] <Blecha> http://adafruit.com/products/198 this actually
[11:39:48] <PlastyGrove> anyone know if the stack pointer is automatically initialised in the atmega328? Maybe good practice to always initialise it?
[11:40:56] <OndraSter> check datasheet
[11:40:59] <OndraSter> and default value of SPL/SPH
[11:41:21] <Blecha> OndraSter I know it doesn't compete with china but what do you think of using this in my clock http://adafruit.com/products/198
[11:41:33] <OndraSter> clock
[11:41:36] <OndraSter> with such huge display?
[11:42:03] <OndraSter> "huge"
[11:42:05] <Blecha> yeah
[11:42:08] <OndraSter> 4 rows, each is barely 1cm high
[11:42:17] <Blecha> remember its not just a clock
[11:42:25] <OndraSter> if clock
[11:42:27] <OndraSter> then this
[11:42:27] <OndraSter> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8530?
[11:42:43] <Blecha> it will require increasingly hard math problems before I can snooze or disable
[11:43:34] <Blecha> also lol
[11:43:39] <Landon> does it have an atomic power source?
[11:45:19] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: Can't find anything mentioned in the datasheet, I guess I'll have to initialise it then
[11:46:04] <OndraSter> it surely is ther
[11:46:05] <OndraSter> e
[11:47:05] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, you lied :)
[11:47:06] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2c9hq
[11:47:07] <OndraSter> page 14
[11:48:33] * specing smacks PlastyGrove around with the datasheet
[11:49:32] * PlastyGrove stares at floor and draws doodles in sand with big toe
[11:50:07] <specing> btw I still have no clue what is wrong with my HD44780 code ;D
[11:50:14] <PlastyGrove> I was searching for words that said something about initialisation, looks like I missed it in the image
[11:50:25] <PlastyGrove> Thanks OndraSter
[11:50:29] <Blecha> specing you are starting to worry me about using an lcd
[11:50:52] <OndraSter> np
[11:50:54] <specing> Dont worry, there are loads of libraries out there
[11:50:58] <OndraSter> Blecha, they are simple
[11:51:02] <OndraSter> just specing is making it too hard
[11:51:03] <specing> I just want to do it the hard way
[11:51:11] <OndraSter> I did it the hard way on the first try
[11:51:13] <Blecha> but do you think that 20x4 is a good option for me?
[11:51:40] <Blecha> http://adafruit.com/products/198
[11:52:32] <OndraSter> it is your choice
[11:55:34] <OndraSter> that's some serious number of opened datasheets on my computer!
[11:55:34] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2c9mJ
[11:55:41] <OndraSter> and I see that some are opened even twice :D
[11:57:13] <Blecha> OndraSter you should rename some of them
[11:59:36] <specing> yay it works
[12:00:07] <specing> I can write stuff to the lcd using a packet based protocol
[12:00:12] <Blecha> pics or it didn't happen
[12:00:33] <specing> PC <-> packets over serial <-> t2313 <-> HD44780
[12:01:32] <OndraSter> :)
[12:05:13] <Blecha> Ok, I have decided on the LCD but i probably need some buttons for this thing.
[12:05:29] <OndraSter> everything needs buttons and LEDs
[12:07:33] <Blecha> any recommendations?
[12:07:45] <Blecha> a strip of buttons on board would be nice
[12:11:29] <Blecha> welp guess ill have to make my own strip
[12:14:06] <specing> Blecha: get some 4-way DIP switches
[12:14:16] <specing> Those are easily interfaced with protoboards
[12:14:19] <Blecha> I actually considered it
[12:14:30] <specing> and tactile pushbuttons for more pushin'
[12:14:32] <Blecha> I may do that for the alarm time settings
[12:14:44] <Blecha> but im going tactile for the input
[12:14:59] <Blecha> hmm... and im going to need some shift registers probably
[12:15:11] <specing> yup
[12:15:18] <Blecha> 10 buttons + LCD
[12:15:28] <Blecha> er 11 buttons probably
[12:15:31] <specing> also get an SPI SRAM for practicing SPI
[12:15:37] <Blecha> 0-9 + enter button
[12:15:50] <specing> and a I2C sram for practicing i2c
[12:15:58] <Blecha> what about just getting an sd card?
[12:16:02] <specing> also you will need something for the serial port
[12:16:08] <Blecha> I have my arduino
[12:16:09] <specing> SD cards are complex
[12:16:37] <Blecha> arduino running software serial will work as a go between
[12:17:00] <specing> ok
[12:17:33] <specing> You could also get an USB avr if you ever decide to do your own keyboard...
[12:17:40] <specing> or similar gadgets
[12:17:44] <Blecha> and I would want a parallel to serial AND a serial to parallel shift register right?
[12:18:03] <Blecha> parallel IN the buttons
[12:18:11] <Blecha> parallel OUT to the screen
[12:19:01] <specing> Oh those SOPI chips can just PISOff
[12:20:38] <Blecha> lol why?
[12:20:45] <Blecha> maybe I will just matrix them
[12:20:54] <Blecha> 12 buttons on a 3x4
[12:21:41] <specing> I've done a 6x7 tactile pushbutton board once
[12:22:49] <OndraSter> :)
[12:23:10] <OndraSter> as long as you don't need multiple buttons at once you are good to go with two shift regs
[12:23:52] <specing> You need to scan for pushes ;)
[12:24:11] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:24:18] <OndraSter> actually
[12:24:22] <OndraSter> if you don't need 2 pushes at once
[12:24:27] <OndraSter> and have 6 spare pins on your micro
[12:24:36] <OndraSter> you are good to go with two 8-to-3 encoders
[12:24:37] <specing> And we lumps of organic matter can't possibly make two buttons to appear to be pushed at exactly the same time
[12:33:41] <OndraSter> I have a black hole in my room
[12:33:54] <OndraSter> I had here small bag with parts I desoldered from the microwave's controller
[12:33:58] <OndraSter> there were few PNP transistors
[12:34:00] <OndraSter> I need one
[12:34:05] <OndraSter> but I can't find the bag!
[12:34:18] <specing> nub.
[12:36:21] <Blecha> so yes or no on the parallel IN shift reg
[12:37:03] <specing> YESH
[12:37:10] <Blecha> also as a side note, i really wish i had my lab organized with an inventory of stuff so I know what to order
[12:37:10] <specing> get the sipo too
[12:37:15] <Blecha> yeah
[12:37:19] <Blecha> im going to get 2 of each
[12:37:25] <specing> and some level shifters
[12:37:37] <specing> zener diodes if nothing else
[12:37:58] <Blecha> This is my list now http://paste.pound-python.org/show/24772/
[12:39:07] <Blecha> also specing level shift isn't a bad idea, i will need to go 5v to 3.3v serial when i get my open wrt router
[12:40:33] <Blecha> but for now i think my list is fairly complete
[12:41:02] <OndraSter> this is how looks my BOM for XBoard coco :)
[12:41:02] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2c9Rd
[12:41:27] <Blecha> OH headers
[12:41:33] <Blecha> doh!
[12:41:44] <OndraSter> I should fix my BOM, I will be getting them locally most likely
[12:41:56] <OndraSter> (because I forgot them in my order on mouser lol)
[12:41:57] <Blecha> hmm
[12:42:06] * CapnKernel spies something interesting
[12:42:08] <Blecha> actually i could be cheap, the lcd somes witha strip of headers
[12:42:19] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, I thought you do only huuuuuuge orders :P
[12:42:30] <CapnKernel> I was looking at board coc
[12:42:33] <CapnKernel> coco
[12:42:40] <OndraSter> oh
[12:42:45] <OndraSter> yeah, it is so far made locally
[12:42:54] <OndraSter> the boards should have been here already
[12:42:57] <OndraSter> but the teacher is on vacation
[12:42:58] <OndraSter> lol
[12:43:22] <Blecha> whats an ftdi setup cost at minimum?
[12:43:32] <CapnKernel> I had some university students order some boards on Wednesday, and I shipped them out by DHL tonight.
[12:43:36] <Blecha> Id like to have something than my arduino I think but idk
[12:43:49] <CapnKernel> They will have the boards on Monday.
[12:44:36] <Blecha> I'm up to 36 if i get 2 of each avr
[12:44:50] <Blecha> might as well round to $40 and get 3 of each
[12:45:02] <Blecha> so $10 left
[12:45:12] <specing> http://imgur.com/gallery/zNiAn
[12:45:21] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, when I ordered from iTead and used DHL it was here after the weekend as well
[12:45:58] <OndraSter> specing, older than me
[12:46:06] <Blecha> What should i get for my $10, preferably a tool and not just a component
[12:46:27] <OndraSter> USB-serial?
[12:46:56] <CapnKernel> DHL is powerful stuff
[12:47:33] <Blecha> OndraSter thats what i was thinking
[12:47:46] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, DHL was here yesterday
[12:47:48] <OndraSter> with Atmel samples :)
[12:49:17] <Blecha> hmmm
[12:49:27] <Blecha> OndraSter I want samples :O
[12:49:42] <Blecha> also im going to need a breakoutboard as all i see sofar is SMT
[12:54:03] <OndraSter> you know what are samples for :)
[12:54:14] <OndraSter> if you have got product you want to do but are deciding on the chips etc
[12:54:21] <OndraSter> I did the same thing pretty much
[12:54:31] <OndraSter> except that I am decided and need kickstart chips on which I can start developing software :)
[12:56:09] <OndraSter> yay, I found here 5.25" MFM drive
[12:56:10] <OndraSter> 20MB
[12:56:11] <OndraSter> should work
[12:57:34] <Blecha> I really should get a dedicated programmer but I dont think I can for $10
[12:58:01] <OndraSter> with what are you programming it?
[12:58:04] <OndraSter> or want to program it
[12:58:33] <OndraSter> GUYS!
[12:58:40] <OndraSter> we all know that we love bubble wraps
[12:58:42] <OndraSter> and blasting them
[12:58:43] <OndraSter> well
[12:58:44] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2ca2m
[12:58:44] <OndraSter> ...
[12:58:48] <OndraSter> MOTHER OF BUBBLEWRAP
[13:00:07] <CapnKernel> 5.25" MFM drive == ST-506 interface :-)
[13:00:12] <CapnKernel> What you going to do with it?
[13:01:10] <OndraSter> no idea
[13:01:13] <OndraSter> it is from Olivetti M28
[13:01:18] <OndraSter> which I had once even starting up
[13:01:25] <OndraSter> but it has got DB9 connector for keyboard
[13:01:29] <OndraSter> which I have never seen before
[13:01:39] <OndraSter> now I tried reviving it after many years
[13:01:54] <OndraSter> I rejumpered it to use different graphics card (the "main" one has got DB25 for graphics output)
[13:01:58] <OndraSter> didn't start
[13:02:06] <OndraSter> so I rejumpered it more
[13:02:12] <OndraSter> and now even the fan in the PSU won't start anymore
[13:02:15] <OndraSter> I think the PSU is busted
[13:02:22] <theBear> you random jumpering an old mobo ? don't do that
[13:02:27] <OndraSter> no
[13:02:29] <OndraSter> it isn't random :)
[13:02:32] <OndraSter> I have got manual for it
[13:02:36] <theBear> good
[13:02:42] <OndraSter> it is on the interwebz
[13:02:46] <theBear> 'cos jumpers on old boards do WAY more serious stuff than on 'modern' boards
[13:02:57] <OndraSter> nowadays there are no jumpers :(
[13:02:58] <OndraSter> no fun :(
[13:03:07] <OndraSter> wait, what damage? There is usually cache and speed settings
[13:03:11] <OndraSter> and then port addresses
[13:03:16] <OndraSter> and that's it
[13:03:23] <Blecha> OndraSter I want to get an ISP probably
[13:03:30] <theBear> old boards they swithc lotsa stuff, and not buffered, they just switch the lines
[13:03:44] <OndraSter> Blecha, Tom_itx :)
[13:03:50] <OndraSter> theBear, hmm..
[13:03:52] <theBear> configs for different cpus if they aint too old, different cache chips/modules, different bios chip stuff
[13:04:02] <OndraSter> not on this one
[13:04:12] <OndraSter> this is specifically made by olivetti for m28
[13:04:14] <OndraSter> and 286
[13:04:20] <OndraSter> I even dumped the BIOS from it
[13:04:27] <theBear> i never knew olivetti, they were horrible proprietry things
[13:04:34] <OndraSter> it is made in Italy
[13:04:38] <OndraSter> I think
[13:04:39] <theBear> 286 not so bad, xt's had the REAL dangerous jumpers
[13:04:42] <OndraSter> or at least they were popular in italy
[13:04:44] <OndraSter> hehe
[13:04:55] <OndraSter> I never had anything older than 286 :(
[13:05:06] <OndraSter> it all sells so expensive nowadays :D
[13:05:11] <OndraSter> so expensively*
[13:05:16] <CapnKernel> I used to do PC support in a government department full of those Olivetti PCs.
[13:05:21] <CapnKernel> Mostly running DOS 2.11
[13:05:31] <theBear> oh i remember dos 2.11, it was a big upgrade
[13:05:38] <OndraSter> I don't :(
[13:05:41] <PlastyGrove> I've been struggling with string manipulation for a couple of days now, I don't understand what I'm doing wrong over here: http://pastebin.com/KApDuxVj
[13:05:42] <theBear> hehe
[13:05:43] <CapnKernel> Mostly amber-screen monitors.
[13:05:49] <CapnKernel> Greyish cases, rounded corners
[13:05:49] <PlastyGrove> any help plz? :(
[13:05:54] <OndraSter> I was running on DOS 6.22 + win3.11 I think, then went to win95
[13:05:56] <theBear> i had a green one, only ever saw amber at banks and the library
[13:06:13] <Steffanx> OndraSter .. help him, you are the asm guy :P
[13:06:19] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, what is the issue?
[13:06:25] <OndraSter> well
[13:06:27] <PlastyGrove> it prints garbage
[13:06:28] <OndraSter> it is simple
[13:06:29] <OndraSter> LPM
[13:06:30] <OndraSter> = flash
[13:06:34] <OndraSter> ;D
[13:06:39] <PlastyGrove> :|
[13:06:55] <OndraSter> you want LD R16, Z+
[13:07:00] <OndraSter> also without those <<1
[13:07:06] <OndraSter> because RAM is addressed by bytes
[13:07:07] <OndraSter> not words
[13:07:37] <PlastyGrove> ah, that makes sense
[13:07:54] <OndraSter> Steffanx, see? :P
[13:07:57] <OndraSter> it wasn't that hrad
[13:07:58] <OndraSter> hard
[13:08:02] <PlastyGrove> let me give that a shot
[13:08:23] <Steffanx> I didn't say it was hard OndraSter
[13:09:03] <OndraSter> Steffanx, I mean asm alltogether
[13:09:21] <Steffanx> I didn't say the either
[13:09:49] <specing> OndraSter: Have you ever made the LCD backlight to work?
[13:12:11] <OndraSter> just plug two wires
[13:12:31] <specing> Ok
[13:12:42] <specing> What do I do with them then?
[13:12:52] <Steffanx> Connect them to 230v ofcourse
[13:12:59] <specing> right.
[13:13:02] <OndraSter> nothing
[13:13:02] <Steffanx> or left
[13:13:03] <OndraSter> it shines :D
[13:13:07] <OndraSter> one is A, the other is C
[13:13:09] <OndraSter> anode and cathode
[13:13:11] <OndraSter> pins 15 16
[13:13:14] <specing> yes?
[13:13:19] <OndraSter> (maybe CA)
[13:13:22] <OndraSter> that is all
[13:13:23] <specing> Do I need to apply voltage on them?
[13:13:26] <OndraSter> yes
[13:13:28] <Steffanx> specing, has no datasheet?
[13:13:29] <OndraSter> 5V usually
[13:13:51] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: looks like something wrong here:
[13:13:53] <PlastyGrove> clr zh
[13:13:54] <PlastyGrove> ldi zl, low(TestString)
[13:14:06] <specing> Steffanx: My module's DS only mentions polarity
[13:14:07] <PlastyGrove> can i do this if TestString is in .dseg?
[13:14:30] <specing> No wait, there are electrical characteristics too, they are just very faded...
[13:14:54] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, yes
[13:15:12] <specing> min 3.3 and max 4.6 V
[13:15:37] <OndraSter> interesting
[13:15:39] <OndraSter> I always used 5V :D
[13:16:07] <specing> :S
[13:16:25] <Blecha> Where can i buy the Tom_itx
[13:16:33] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: Works better now, I'm getting only one garbage value repeatedly. But still looks like soemthing wrong: http://pastebin.com/uqifZbbM
[13:16:39] <Blecha> nvm
[13:17:16] <Blecha> :O its $28
[13:17:24] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, a) are you sure that the TestString is on address <0xFF
[13:17:29] <OndraSter> b) where did you set the value?
[13:18:08] <PlastyGrove> TestString is at 0x100
[13:18:13] <OndraSter> well
[13:18:17] <PlastyGrove> preceded by a .org 0x0100
[13:18:19] <OndraSter> how do you want to fit 0x100 into 8 bits?
[13:18:38] <Kre10s> hello. This is not an avr question, but perhaps someone might know... I've got here an AT88SC0204CA ... it some crypto chip like those used in membership cards... I am logging a transmission of a working chip, but can't make sense of the traffic (obviously i shouldn't be able to read the data, but at least see the protocol/encrypted data). http://imagebin.org/224099 http://imagebin.org/224100 . anyone have experience with theses chips?
[13:18:42] <OndraSter> also, what device do you have?
[13:18:48] <Blecha> OndraSter MAGIC!!!
[13:18:49] <PlastyGrove> good point
[13:18:52] <PlastyGrove> atmega328
[13:19:21] <OndraSter> ok
[13:19:26] <specing> Kre10s: I believe there was some guy here months ago also with a crypto chip
[13:19:27] <OndraSter> internal sram starts at 0x0100
[13:19:41] <OndraSter> you *still* can't fit 0x100 into single byte :)
[13:20:01] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: so I use zh and zl in that case?
[13:20:08] <OndraSter> obviously
[13:20:16] <PlastyGrove> still doesn't work
[13:20:21] <specing> PlastyGrove: ...
[13:20:21] <PlastyGrove> can I show you the entire code?
[13:20:29] <OndraSter> yes
[13:20:56] <Blecha> ... i think im going to stick with my arduino for now
[13:21:05] <OndraSter> with 0x0000 you were reading R1's register value :P
[13:21:07] <Blecha> When i start feeling fancy maybe ill use my dead ones ftdi chip
[13:21:16] <PlastyGrove> Specing: Yes?
[13:21:26] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: http://pastebin.com/M0ZYbYis
[13:21:53] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, you can not pre-initialize DSeg in asm :)
[13:22:39] <OndraSter> also
[13:22:39] <OndraSter> ldi zh, low(TestString)
[13:22:40] <OndraSter> ldi zl, low(TestString)
[13:22:41] <OndraSter> =>
[13:22:41] <specing> PlastyGrove: can you use codepad.org in the future?
[13:22:45] <OndraSter> ldi zh, high(TestString)
[13:22:45] <OndraSter> ldi zl, low(TestString)
[13:22:57] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: Aaargh!
[13:23:17] <Blecha> well any kind of FTDI or Programmer is out
[13:23:26] <Blecha> what would be fun to play with for ~$10
[13:23:41] <OndraSter> I bought motorola f3 without battery and back cover for $4.4
[13:23:44] <OndraSter> it has got good display :)
[13:23:46] <OndraSter> segmented eink
[13:23:50] <OndraSter> with SPI interface
[13:24:49] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: Still no dice by changing it to high(TestString), Regarding the pre-initialization, I thought I could do it for anything in asm :(
[13:24:57] <Blecha> DUH!!!!
[13:25:01] <Blecha> Wireless modues
[13:25:03] <Blecha> modules
[13:25:05] <PlastyGrove> specing: Sure thing, will do that in future, anything better over pastebin?
[13:25:16] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, when you flash the chip
[13:25:21] <OndraSter> how does it know *what* belongs to the RAM?
[13:25:31] <OndraSter> it has to be copied there from flash :)
[13:25:33] <Blecha> So can anyone recommend some cheap wireless serial modules?
[13:25:49] <OndraSter> Blecha, NRF24L01+ ;D
[13:25:55] <OndraSter> china = $2.5 per module
[13:26:20] <OndraSter> no idea if anybody sells prebuilt modules
[13:26:23] <OndraSter> other than china
[13:26:41] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: but when I compile the code, it shows space used in the .dseg :|
[13:26:50] <Blecha> FUCKIN CHINA
[13:26:58] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, it does
[13:27:02] <OndraSter> but it doesn't mean that it is in there
[13:27:11] <OndraSter> after power on the RAM contains *random* content
[13:27:12] <specing> Blecha: ? Do you have a problem?
[13:27:18] <Steffanx> sparkfun does OndraSter
[13:27:23] <Steffanx> but then you pay extra hobby tax :P
[13:27:24] <OndraSter> well
[13:27:29] <OndraSter> sparkfun is china that lives in the US
[13:27:39] <OndraSter> or do they now reside in china?
[13:27:39] <Steffanx> No, not really
[13:27:46] <Steffanx> They made their own
[13:27:55] <OndraSter> hmm
[13:27:57] <Blecha> Im thinking of getting a pair of these https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10533
[13:28:00] <OndraSter> but what is the price difference
[13:28:26] <Steffanx> https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/114 .. :(
[13:28:28] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: So I can't pre-initialize .ESEG either?
[13:28:36] <OndraSter> .eseg I think yes
[13:28:43] <OndraSter> because that is non volatile memory
[13:28:50] <OndraSter> Steffanx, lol @ prices
[13:28:51] <OndraSter> 20 bucks
[13:31:30] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: So the only way I can put data in SRAM is through the code itself and it's valid only for as long as I don't press reset or power off?
[13:31:35] <Blecha> Yeah I saw Steffan :(
[13:31:46] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, reset = data stays
[13:31:52] <OndraSter> but cutting power = data loss
[13:32:00] <Blecha> specing I just don't like buying from china
[13:32:10] <Blecha> for 2 reaons really
[13:32:17] <Blecha> shipping takes for fuckin ever
[13:32:34] <Blecha> and they are wooping ass economically
[13:32:57] <Blecha> Most of the world has been in a recession for awhile but they have actually been growing
[13:33:06] <Steffanx> Not true
[13:33:35] <OndraSter> the difference between czech and china is that in czech you get $10 and complain about the work, it takes years. In china they get $1 per hour and WORK
[13:33:40] <OndraSter> not sure how the other countries
[13:33:59] <Steffanx> in china you have no choice
[13:34:10] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: When I define a global variable in C, doesn't it get pushed into SRAM?
[13:34:18] <OndraSter> it does
[13:34:23] <OndraSter> but that is the code on the beginning that you don't see :)
[13:34:25] <Steffanx> in china they "don't" care about working conditions.. so you cant compare OndraSter
[13:34:59] <specing> Like they care anywhere else
[13:35:26] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: and we've got a whole load of progmem libraries to just access soemthing that was in the codesegment to begin with?!
[13:35:32] <Steffanx> specing, i'm sure
[13:35:39] <OndraSter> PlastyGrove, ?
[13:36:18] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: the problem with RAM is that it's only 2K vs 32K on the flash
[13:36:30] <PlastyGrove> so in C, if we want to store data in the flash, we use progmem
[13:36:39] <OndraSter> yes
[13:37:02] <PlastyGrove> so, that effectively uses data in the flash, puts it in ram, and then brings it to flash again?
[13:37:09] <specing> No
[13:37:13] <OndraSter> no
[13:37:18] <specing> It never loads it into ram
[13:37:18] <OndraSter> progmem = only in flash
[13:37:24] <OndraSter> nothing = flash gets copied into RAM
[13:37:52] <specing> there is also the __flash attr ;)
[13:38:20] <OndraSter> and then there is asm :D
[13:38:44] <PlastyGrove> :(
[13:38:45] <OndraSter> afk
[13:39:09] * PlastyGrove wonders how a $3 component be so complex
[13:39:48] <specing> Something is seriosly broken with my packet engine
[13:39:58] <PlastyGrove> Thanks OndraSter, specing, I'll need to go and meditate on this for a while
[13:40:06] <Blecha> Steffanx whats not true about what I said? not looking to start a flame war or anything just curious
[13:41:37] <Steffanx> Nvm Blecha
[13:42:40] <specing> LET THE FLAME WARS BEGIN
[13:43:26] <Steffanx> linux sucks
[13:43:46] <prpplague> hehe
[13:43:54] * prpplague grabs the gas can
[13:44:22] <Blecha> ...
[13:44:23] * specing unleashes an army of penguins on Steffanx
[13:44:44] <PlastyGrove> OndraSter: My original code works fine, just moved the string to .cseg :(
[13:44:45] <Blecha> Steffanx, say what you want about countries, but thats going too far man!
[13:45:08] <Steffanx> ok ok
[13:45:40] <specing> Hehe, I can play with the LCD without reflashin the avr ;P
[13:45:52] <specing> Now I need a nice graphical abuser interface!
[13:46:48] <specing> Maybe I'll play with custom chars!
[13:50:07] <Blecha> So maybe Ill just get 4 mega168s and 4 atttiny45s because I dont really see much else i NEED right now
[13:50:15] <Blecha> and i have lots of stuff in my lab to interface with
[13:54:37] <specing> Yya I can draw
[13:54:58] <specing> Blecha: do you have an AVR with 40 IOs?
[13:55:10] <Blecha> Why do I need that right now?
[13:55:20] <Blecha> Id rather have some kind of wirless communications
[14:00:45] <Blecha> hmm maybe if I switch to this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/710 and get the transmitter and recievers ill be set
[14:01:11] <Blecha> its $2 more than the 4x20 char lcd
[14:01:54] <Blecha> actually screw the wireless stuff for now, i dont really have a need in mind yet
[14:22:40] <Blecha> Will this work for shifting out to an LCD screen http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SN74HC164N/296-8248-5-ND/376946
[14:22:59] <Blecha> Im putting my actual order in and all i need to get is the shift registers
[14:23:05] <Blecha> probably 2 out and 2 in
[14:25:21] <OndraSter> what LCD screen?
[14:25:25] <specing> HD 44780 lcds only need 7 pins in 4-bit mode
[14:25:44] <OndraSter> and you can use /CS to use the pins for something else
[14:26:07] <Blecha> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/710
[14:26:11] <Blecha> This lcd
[14:27:13] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:27:49] <Blecha> and I think i will just matrix my buttons
[14:28:03] <Blecha> 8 buttons to a 2x4
[14:28:46] <OndraSter> why not 3x3 with one missing? :P
[14:28:55] <OndraSter> saves you two pins
[14:29:03] <Blecha> how do you figure?
[14:29:10] <OndraSter> X and Y coordinates?
[14:29:14] <Blecha> 3+3 = 6 = 2 + 4
[14:29:23] <OndraSter> oh
[14:29:29] <OndraSter> I thought that you ment 4 columns 2 rows
[14:29:33] <Blecha> actually you are right though
[14:29:34] <OndraSter> and you did
[14:29:41] <OndraSter> I can't count anymore :)
[14:29:52] <Blecha> 3*3 because i need
[14:29:57] <Blecha> 8 bits and an enter button
[14:30:06] <Blecha> plus leds
[14:30:10] <Blecha> but i have leds
[14:35:55] <Blecha> Ok, here is my order http://paste.pound-python.org/show/24775/
[14:36:38] <OndraSter> :)
[14:36:45] <OndraSter> you have got leds and resistors I presume
[14:36:53] <Blecha> plus that lcd from sparkfun
[14:37:00] <Blecha> my total will be about $45
[14:37:20] <Blecha> Yeah i have leds and resistors, ive got some smt ones still on a spool I should use up.
[14:37:45] <Blecha> I honestly have no idea if im going to have enough pins or anything but either way this stuff will be fun to play with
[14:37:50] <specing> Blecha: Shipping? :)
[14:37:57] <Blecha> thats with shipping :D
[14:38:01] <Blecha> $45
[14:38:11] <Blecha> over half that is the damned lcd
[14:40:43] <Blecha> $23.76 + $14.99 + ~$5 shipping from digikey
[14:42:45] <Blecha> added another xtal because I got 10 caps(for the price break) and Ill have 3 attinys/2atmegas
[14:42:59] <Blecha> so I should be able to do 5 whole boards
[14:44:40] <Blecha> Ok, too late now
[14:44:45] <Blecha> Its orderd :D
[14:44:49] <OndraSter> lol late
[14:44:52] <OndraSter> oh
[14:44:57] <OndraSter> that way late
[14:46:08] <Blecha> Yep
[14:46:33] <Blecha> Really its hard to get excited about making my own clock considering the screen by itself costs more than most clocks
[14:47:02] <specing> Did you get a 32k watch crystal?
[14:47:25] <OndraSter> ;D
[14:47:26] <OndraSter> pwned
[14:47:28] <specing> :)
[14:47:35] <OndraSter> you are fine with the 20MHz one if you scale it down.. enough
[14:47:48] <specing> That is going to be some serious scaling down
[14:47:49] <OndraSter> unless you need atomic clock
[14:47:52] <OndraSter> yeaah
[14:48:04] <specing> also I don't think those 20MHz ones are made to be accurate
[14:48:49] <Blecha> Now you tell me...
[14:49:10] <specing> your problem :P
[14:49:12] <Blecha> wait nvm
[14:49:23] <Blecha> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATS16B/CTX1085-ND/2640031
[14:49:29] <Blecha> Same as the arduino
[14:49:37] <Blecha> i didn't get a 20Mhz
[14:49:41] <Blecha> 16Mhz
[14:49:47] <OndraSter> really, nobody about my "simplest constant current source" (PNP transistor) "that can be switched off"?
[15:00:27] <OndraSter> NPN*
[15:00:30] <OndraSter> I need low side
[15:00:51] <specing> ##electronics
[15:01:10] <OndraSter> I suppose that base resistor could work
[15:02:32] <OndraSter> hFE at 10 - 20mA is about 155
[15:02:36] <OndraSter> for the one transistor I have
[15:02:56] <OndraSter> I lied
[15:03:13] <OndraSter> I had different one
[15:03:47] <specing> ##ELECTRONICS
[15:03:59] <specing> Go there and blend in with the crowd
[15:04:00] <OndraSter> I KNOOOOW
[15:04:11] <OndraSter> wait
[15:04:14] <OndraSter> blend in
[15:04:15] <OndraSter> as in..?
[15:04:20] <OndraSter> is it a good thing? :D
[15:04:43] <theBear> heh, i don't think that's what he was saying
[15:13:03] <OndraSter> yep, now I hope that the datasheet doesn't lie about its hFE
[15:35:10] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2cbH5
[15:35:13] <OndraSter> looks about right
[15:35:17] <OndraSter> a lot of transistors though
[15:35:29] <OndraSter> I do wonder how they solved that in the microwave, there was just the high side PNP
[15:35:45] <theBear> lol, so many i can barely count them
[15:36:10] <OndraSter> well, two
[15:36:18] <OndraSter> that is a lot
[15:36:19] <OndraSter> 9 segments
[15:36:21] <OndraSter> 5 commons
[15:36:42] <OndraSter> that is 14 transistors :)
[15:36:54] <theBear> we talking about fluro displays ? you go for open collector + pullups
[15:37:50] <OndraSter> huh?
[15:37:52] <OndraSter> no
[15:37:53] <OndraSter> LED
[15:45:29] <Blecha> Im pretty excited, this will be my first project that isn't just whipped up in a day or two
[16:14:40] <buhman> with respect to EMI: I'm wondering how I end up telling the microcontroller how many address lines the attached SRAM has (I couldn't find a 64k DIP, I only have 32k).
[16:14:58] <buhman> the only things interesting I can see in the 162 datasheet is the EMCUCR register
[16:15:50] <buhman> the "SRL2..0" bits specifically; but they're described at one point as "wait states"
[16:15:59] <buhman> and then later as "sector limits"
[16:16:43] <specing> buhman: AFAIK it doesen't care
[16:16:58] <specing> buhman: it will try to access whatever you give to him :)
[16:17:11] <buhman> erm, so what happens when it tries to use A15 that isn't connected to anything?
[16:17:18] <specing> nothing?
[16:17:31] <buhman> well, like I said, it's 32k, so it only has 15 address lines
[16:17:38] <specing> so?
[16:17:54] <buhman> so the 16th address line on the 162 can't be connected to anything
[16:18:02] <specing> and?
[16:18:12] <buhman> so how does the 162 "know" how much memory it can address?
[16:18:19] <specing> It doesen't
[16:18:29] <buhman> erm, so how does it know how much it can allocate?
[16:18:36] <specing> allocate?
[16:18:46] <specing> You are the one allocating, not the EMI
[16:18:52] <buhman> O.o
[16:19:05] <buhman> ok, so how does gcc know how much I can allocate?
[16:19:29] <specing> const uint16_t EMEM_MAX = 0x7fff;
[16:19:49] <specing> Oh, you want to tell malloc how much to allocate?
[16:19:55] <buhman> no, the maximum
[16:20:54] <buhman> erm, I guess what I'm saying is what happens when a C program tries to malloc memory that doesn't exist?
[16:21:21] <OndraSter> edit section's end address in gcc
[16:21:57] <specing> buhman: http://nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/malloc.html
[16:23:44] <Blecha> malloc is a jerk anyways
[16:24:58] <buhman> O.O
[16:25:06] * specing slaps Blecha around with a thick memory management manual
[16:25:13] <Blecha> pffff
[16:25:34] <Blecha> according to my results last night, when you try to access beyond the edge of your eeprom, it just starts over
[16:25:45] <Blecha> therefor all memory is that way
[16:26:08] <Blecha> EVEN YOUR BRAIN!!!!
[16:26:17] <theBear> that's cos you ran out of msb address bits and started referring to the start again
[16:27:18] <buhman> so how about statically allocated memory?
[16:27:32] <buhman> is that allowed to exceed the size of the internal ram?
[16:27:38] <Blecha> thanks theBear
[16:27:47] <Blecha> :D trolling in order to get the answers i need
[16:28:07] <Blecha> That does make sense though
[16:28:11] <buhman> it looks like if I were to move the heap to external ram, I'd need to fiddle with the XMEM register before I end up doing my first malloc, correct?
[16:28:13] <theBear> heh, effective
[16:28:25] <specing> Blecha: Maybe try counting from 0 to 15 with your hands?
[16:28:32] <Blecha> Done
[16:28:47] <Blecha> I got an error...
[16:28:49] <specing> by the time you reach 10 you wont have enaugh fingers and the end result will be 5
[16:28:51] <theBear> that was quick, you must be good
[16:29:10] * theBear looks at fingers
[16:29:14] <theBear> hmm, i don't have a error finger :)
[16:29:18] <Blecha> wats an ID 10 T error?
[16:29:31] <Blecha> My hands just gave me one
[16:30:03] <theBear> i thought an id 10 terror was something from quake
[16:30:57] <Blecha> either way, my replacement is here
[16:31:02] <Blecha> I am officially free from work!
[16:31:27] <Blecha> Thanks for the help today guys, I will be sure to log my efforts in clock making.
[16:32:25] <OndraSter> new video from mike! new video from mike!
[16:32:35] <specing> Who is mike?
[16:35:12] <OndraSter> well that was cool video
[16:35:16] <OndraSter> mike's electric stuff?
[16:35:55] <buhman> O.o if I have the CKDIV8 fuse I can un-set it at runtime by playing with CLKPS?
[16:35:59] <buhman> I did not know this
[16:36:56] <OndraSter> yes
[16:38:06] <buhman> you'd think atmel would have written some sort of comprehensive document talking about all the registers and what all of the bits in each register do
[16:38:09] <buhman> :P
[16:38:23] <theBear> hehe
[16:39:03] * specing slaps buhman around with the heaviest atmel datasheet in existance
[16:39:36] <buhman> which datasheet would that be?
[16:39:54] <specing> probably some AT91SAM9*
[16:40:44] <specing> I have a 800-page one here
[16:41:20] <buhman> I just found a glorious looking 802-page at91sam datasheet
[16:41:22] <buhman> I win
[16:42:10] <buhman> wow those are huge
[16:42:42] <buhman> I likely couldn't fully utilize an attiny; no idea why I'm already playing with megas
[16:43:34] <specing> AT91SAM9* are Linux-ready ARM9 micros
[16:46:01] <buhman> meh, if I wanted to run the Kernel on a "micro"; I'd much rather be doing what azonenberg is doing with his FPGA
[16:47:49] <specing> Except it is a 200MHz 208-pin 3*3 cm chip with 64 megabytes of external DRAM
[17:42:26] <OndraSter> guys, do you do both sided boards at home?
[17:50:08] <jacekowski> yes
[17:51:15] <OndraSter> k
[17:51:16] <OndraSter> :D
[17:51:24] <OndraSter> toner transfer or UV?
[17:58:54] <Tom_itx> i've done toner transfer
[17:58:56] <Tom_itx> both sides
[17:59:16] <Tom_itx> drill a couple guide holes
[18:01:00] <OndraSter> and how did you cross-connect the layers?
[18:01:03] <OndraSter> piece of wire?
[18:01:07] <OndraSter> soldered from both sides
[18:01:16] <OndraSter> I do UV myself
[18:22:23] <OndraSter> screw double sided, 5 wires should be enough
[23:58:57] <learningc> It's not easy to DIY double side boards.