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[00:52:01] <rue_mohr> was the programmer left plugged in
[00:52:15] <rue_mohr> the power leak from them will usually cause the ram to stay in tact
[01:01:21] <cehteh> for the record: registers seem to be cleared, dunny if its the clib or the hardware, but SRAM is preserved over reset
[01:02:15] <cehteh> funny C code, someone will kill kittens for that: char flag[1]; ....main() { if(flag[1]) ...
[01:02:38] <cehteh> you just need to be sure that flag is the last variable you declare statically
[01:42:02] <Kevin`> cehteh: the registers are cleared by hardware, they have an inital state in the datasheet
[01:42:07] <Kevin`> initial*
[01:42:26] <Kevin`> at least io registers, not sure about gp
[01:59:00] <k-man> i have this crazy/stpuid idea to build a DIY tv remote using an AVR and microswitches for each button
[01:59:37] <k-man> any suggestions on how i might only power up the avr when a button is pressed, for battery conservation
[02:03:49] <Kevin`> I forget, can a pin-change interrupt wake from the deepest sleep modes? I know the normal external interrupt can
[02:21:52] <k-man> no idea, but its a good question
[02:25:06] <k-man> wow, avr studio is 700 meg
[02:25:08] <k-man> cripes
[02:50:14] <specing> k-man: just 700 mb?
[02:50:51] <specing> just use vim + avr-gcc
[04:15:16] <k-man> specing, yeah, i just wanted to check it out
[05:25:16] <OndraSter> WOOOT
[05:25:23] <OndraSter> "stepping on sei does not set I flag" has been fixed in trunk
[05:30:10] <specing> ?
[05:30:15] <specing> stepping on sei?
[05:30:26] <specing> what in the name of avr does that mean?
[05:47:45] <OndraSter> stepping on SEI instructzion
[05:47:47] <OndraSter> instruction
[05:48:35] <karlp> yeah, I don't think anyone understands what "stepping on" means wrt to an instruction.
[05:48:40] <karlp> stepping on a register yes.
[05:48:53] <karlp> stepping on an instruction no.
[05:48:59] <Xark> debugger stepping, I assume.
[05:49:00] <OndraSter> what
[05:49:01] <OndraSter> yes
[05:49:03] <OndraSter> of course
[05:49:14] <OndraSter> how can anyone NOT understand stepping on instruction?
[05:49:45] <Xark> OndraSter: Also, other than a debugger typically it would be AMTEL's problem if the I bet wasn't set. :)
[05:49:52] <Xark> bit*
[05:49:52] <specing> anyone not having a debugger ;)
[05:49:54] <specing> <- me
[05:50:06] <OndraSter> yes, it was atmel's bug in simulator
[05:50:09] <OndraSter> real device worked fine
[05:50:25] <OndraSter> wrong button
[05:50:26] <OndraSter> http://asf.atmel.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2275
[09:22:11] * phantoxe is now away: gone
[09:23:04] * phantoxe is back from: gone (been away for 53s)
[10:08:02] <OndraSter> hmm
[10:08:04] <OndraSter> abc
[10:08:05] <OndraSter> not here
[10:08:13] <OndraSter> I do wonder, are there "hidden" instructions in the AVR? :P
[10:09:11] <specing> possibly
[10:09:33] <specing> due to it being a harward architecture it would be fairly easy to check
[10:09:48] <specing> just look for gaps in the machine code ;)
[10:09:50] <OndraSter> :D
[10:09:51] <OndraSter> yep
[10:30:04] <OndraSter> mm I have got here some bulged caps
[10:30:07] <OndraSter> I suppose I could pop them :D
[10:30:23] <OndraSter> outside the hosue of course
[10:30:26] <specing> popcaps
[10:30:33] <specing> you can do it inside too
[10:30:39] <OndraSter> in theory yes
[10:30:41] <OndraSter> in practice no
[10:30:50] <OndraSter> last time I accidentaly blew up 200V cap the room smell for another week
[10:31:00] <specing> in practice we were poping some caps in the classroom
[10:31:06] <OndraSter> heh
[10:31:12] <OndraSter> how did you get rid of the smell?
[10:31:46] <specing> well the ceiling is 6m above ground
[10:31:58] <Casper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lzHSkXstRk :D
[10:32:02] <specing> there is a lot of air in those classrooms
[10:33:06] <OndraSter> Casper, house base build?
[10:33:54] <Casper> yup
[10:34:16] <Casper> and at about 6:30 this morning they came remove the wood for the base
[10:34:29] <Casper> nice timelapse isn'T it?
[10:34:43] <Casper> 30 secs/pic is too long for a timelapse...
[10:34:59] <Casper> which still resulted into 1058 pics from 7:10am to 4:48pm
[10:35:18] <Casper> and... all that on a single charge of 2x AA NiMH !
[10:35:23] <Casper> bbl
[10:35:54] <OndraSter> bb
[10:35:59] <OndraSter> I should get some camera
[10:36:03] <OndraSter> so I can record the popping
[10:36:07] <OndraSter> phone will have to be enough..
[11:15:16] <OndraSter> now that was unexpected
[11:15:18] <OndraSter> I tried three caps
[11:15:22] <OndraSter> one a bit bulged
[11:15:29] <OndraSter> one unsoldered
[11:15:31] <OndraSter> and one brand new
[11:15:38] <OndraSter> 6300uF/500uF/220uF
[11:15:45] <OndraSter> all reversed polarity of course
[11:15:46] <OndraSter> @ 15V
[11:15:49] <OndraSter> the first two did NOTHING
[11:15:54] <specing> lol 15V is too low
[11:15:56] <OndraSter> the third one did really small POOF
[11:15:59] <OndraSter> well, -15V
[11:16:02] <OndraSter> I don't have better source :(
[11:16:15] <specing> lol
[11:16:25] <specing> printer ps usually does 32V
[11:16:25] <OndraSter> my bench PSU ends at 5V
[11:16:26] <OndraSter> err
[11:16:28] <OndraSter> 15V
[11:16:30] <OndraSter> oo printer PSU
[11:16:31] <OndraSter> good idea :D
[11:16:37] <OndraSter> that one is not regulated though
[11:16:39] <specing> atleast mine does
[11:16:39] <OndraSter> err
[11:16:41] <OndraSter> I can'T regulate it
[11:16:44] <OndraSter> I ment that
[11:16:54] <specing> why would you want to regulate it?
[11:17:03] <OndraSter> to start at lower voltage
[11:18:45] <OndraSter> hmm I can't find the one from the old borked printer
[11:18:46] <OndraSter> oh well
[11:18:51] <OndraSter> let's use the one from the newer printer :D
[11:20:35] <specing> try to find POE
[11:20:37] <specing> 48V
[11:20:38] <specing> :)
[11:30:31] <elektrinis> hi
[11:30:49] <elektrinis> is there a good AVR programmer out there?
[11:30:54] <elektrinis> not as crappy as avr dragon
[11:31:06] <elektrinis> I need it small and with enclosure
[11:31:09] <asteve> what's crappy about the dragon?
[11:31:23] <elektrinis> and not dying with no reason
[11:31:27] <elektrinis> and not hanging up
[11:31:48] <elektrinis> everything is crappy about dragon :)
[11:32:03] <asteve> i don't own one so I don't know
[11:33:37] <theBear> buffered stk200 style is good
[11:33:53] <theBear> well, if you got a parport
[11:35:36] <elektrinis> no LPT, please
[11:35:43] <elektrinis> also HV programming is needed
[11:39:16] <elektrinis> my company owns some dragons
[11:39:19] <elektrinis> they are a disaster
[11:39:33] <elektrinis> or pick any other bad word
[11:40:39] <drgreenthumb> just watched the movie Eragon about dragons. it was pretty terrible too ;p
[11:42:12] <asteve> eragon was awful
[11:42:53] <OndraSter> specing, 32V @ 500mA was enoguh for the smallest one (now I am not sure if it was something like 500uF? it wasn't much)
[11:42:56] <OndraSter> but not for the biggest one
[11:43:02] <OndraSter> I shall grab the 32V 1.1A one
[11:43:10] <OndraSter> but DAMN I almost threw the phone that was recording it from my hand LOL
[11:45:20] <elektrinis> has anyone uset AT90PWM3B?
[11:45:22] <elektrinis> used
[11:45:58] <elektrinis> I'd like to get some insight into the power stage controller
[11:46:20] <elektrinis> going to spin some BLDC motors..
[11:54:48] <elektrinis> ok.
[11:55:10] <elektrinis> is there a good solution to program AVRs over TF232?
[11:55:20] <elektrinis> or a BT adapter in SPP mode
[11:57:06] <OndraSter> well you will usually work with BT as virtual UART
[11:57:14] <OndraSter> in the end it is just the same
[11:57:20] <OndraSter> receive data - write them to temp page buffer
[11:57:24] <OndraSter> - flash them
[12:00:01] <elektrinis> ok.
[12:00:21] <elektrinis> I wonder what is the speed of bluetooth link in bitbang mode
[12:00:29] <elektrinis> FT232 is terribly slow
[12:00:42] <elektrinis> but what about direct bluetooth?
[12:01:11] <OndraSter> FT232 slow?
[12:01:17] <OndraSter> you can do 2Mbaud over FT232
[12:01:18] <OndraSter> with mega :)
[12:01:28] <OndraSter> even 2.5 or 3Mbaud can do the FT232 itself
[12:01:32] <OndraSter> or at least FT232R one
[12:01:50] <elektrinis> OndraSter, keyword: bitbang
[12:01:54] <OndraSter> ahh
[12:02:01] <OndraSter> why BT link in bitbang mode?
[12:02:03] <elektrinis> you can get a mbps out of tx/rx lines
[12:02:04] <OndraSter> they use either serial or SPI
[12:02:14] <elektrinis> I need it for probramming
[12:02:15] <elektrinis> ISP
[12:02:18] <OndraSter> so?
[12:02:25] <elektrinis> so tx/rx is not enough
[12:02:30] <OndraSter> duh?
[12:02:32] <elektrinis> you need clock, etc
[12:02:37] <OndraSter> bootloader that sets up the link?
[12:02:44] <elektrinis> no bootloader.
[12:02:47] <OndraSter> well then
[12:03:00] <OndraSter> you will need some micro that will interface the BT link itself anyway
[12:03:06] <elektrinis> no.
[12:03:11] <elektrinis> I do have a module
[12:03:12] <OndraSter> don't they use AT commands usually?
[12:03:16] <elektrinis> only power supply is needed
[12:03:21] <OndraSter> ah
[12:03:26] <elektrinis> it works in SPP mode
[12:03:26] <OndraSter> superdumbed down
[12:03:34] <elektrinis> as usual com port
[12:03:55] <elektrinis> so again.
[12:04:04] <elektrinis> BT in SPP mode.
[12:04:08] <elektrinis> whats the max bitrate?
[12:05:06] <elektrinis> I see
[12:05:10] <elektrinis> ok, other question.
[12:05:11] <elektrinis> http://electronics-diy.com/avr_programmer.php
[12:05:23] <elektrinis> can I do this directly from avr studio?
[12:06:58] <Corwin> using that programmer from studio? no
[13:11:37] <Tom_itx> elektrinis,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[13:35:39] <elektrinis> Tom_itx, thanks
[13:35:54] <elektrinis> but problem with it is that I want to buy a tool, not to build it
[13:36:06] <elektrinis> or is it for sale?
[13:36:14] <drgreenthumb> heh toms are premade and for sale
[13:36:26] <Corwin> elektrinis, then go to
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php
[13:36:27] <Corwin> :)
[13:36:29] <drgreenthumb> didn't you say you need HVPP though?
[13:37:18] * drgreenthumb too lazy to read all that
[13:37:56] <elektrinis> I did.
[13:38:09] <drgreenthumb> don't think tom's does that, far as I know.
[13:38:19] <drgreenthumb> very handy gadget regardless
[13:39:50] <elektrinis> it would be great to get a tool in this kind of form:
[13:39:51] <elektrinis> http://circuit.lt/?page=image§ion=patarimai/pcbuv&img=11&type=2
[13:39:59] <elektrinis> one of mine early projects..
[13:40:24] <drgreenthumb> nice. what is the coating?
[13:40:28] <elektrinis> I mean just stick it to USB port ant take the wire directly to mcu
[13:40:38] <elektrinis> hot glue .. :)
[13:40:41] <drgreenthumb> heh
[13:40:41] <drgreenthumb> nice
[13:41:09] <elektrinis> its a single-sided pcb
[13:41:32] <elektrinis> unfortunately I no longer have it
[13:41:55] <elektrinis> and hoping for like 5 years now that someone will make a similar tool
[13:42:06] <elektrinis> with HVISP/JTAG
[13:42:19] <elektrinis> it is easily doable ...
[13:42:43] <elektrinis> but looks like people with required skill have a more meaningful projects in their life :)
[13:44:51] <drgreenthumb> heh everyone either went all stm32 on us or is too dependant on arduino to build that. our numbers are dwindling. we need reinforcements!
[13:45:08] <elektrinis> ;]
[13:45:17] <elektrinis> well, stm32 tools are great
[13:45:19] * drgreenthumb goes outside with a sign reading "AVR FTW \o/"
[13:45:30] <elektrinis> we have a couple of their JTAG units
[13:45:36] <elektrinis> its like 10 bucks
[13:45:47] <elektrinis> tiny, has a solid enclosure
[13:45:52] <elektrinis> wel designed, etc
[13:46:57] <drgreenthumb> heh yeah I'm into it. going to get an stmdiscovery to play with soon-ish. but I still like AVRs for small stuff.
[13:47:33] <elektrinis> i do have a discovery on my table right now
[13:47:46] <elektrinis> but to me it's software looks too complex
[13:47:57] <elektrinis> its like 50 files to only get the led blinking
[13:48:29] <elektrinis> will take a lot of time to figure out what is what and to throw away all bloatware
[13:49:18] <elektrinis> getting it compile is a completely separate story ..
[14:11:30] <Tom_itx> no mine doesn't do HVPP
[14:21:57] <elektrinis> haha. memory usage 28%. Added delay.h - > 70%
[14:26:53] <Steffanx> That's impossible elektrinis ..
[14:27:09] <elektrinis> 8kB micro
[14:27:23] <Steffanx> unless you use dynamic delays using the standard functions
[14:28:06] <Steffanx> It includes floating point crap when you use 'dynamic' delays iirc
[14:31:42] <elektrinis> I use standart library
[14:32:11] <elektrinis> sorry, *was* using
[14:33:14] <Steffanx> including avr/delay.h still shouldn't use 4k
[14:34:09] <cehteh> floating point takes space
[14:35:01] <elektrinis> huh
[14:35:08] <elektrinis> that was without optimization
[14:35:11] <Steffanx> Aaah
[14:35:14] <Steffanx> "compiler optimizations must be enabled, and the delay time must be an expression that is a known constant at compile-time" :)
[14:35:41] <elektrinis> eclipse avr settings are a bitch
[14:37:15] <elektrinis> ok, so the led does not blink.
[14:39:10] <cehteh> here it does :P
[14:39:38] <Steffanx> Magic
[14:41:17] <elektrinis> haha, its alive
[14:41:40] <elektrinis> i'm happy like ten years ago when AVR blinked for the first time
[14:42:43] * cehteh just made a small circruit on the breadboard to expemiment with different contact-bounce elemination algos
[14:43:22] * drgreenthumb just made a ridiculously dangerous zerocross detector http://i.imgur.com/BbF6S.jpg
[14:44:08] <drgreenthumb> but I messed up my hacked optoisolator. used a modulated IR receiver when I really just need a phototransistor. oops.
[16:01:21] <vectory> hi RikusW
[16:06:42] <RikusW> hi vectory
[16:09:44] <RikusW> vectory: so did you do anything useful using AVRs lately ?
[16:10:10] <vectory> nope
[16:10:22] <RikusW> me neither..
[16:10:35] <vectory> except writing code and getting it to assemble pon ubuntu
[16:10:40] <vectory> yet didnt test on device
[16:11:38] <RikusW> still busy with that clock thing ?
[16:12:40] <vectory> if only, more like blinking leds
[16:13:31] <RikusW> blinking leds is easy enough
[16:13:40] <vectory> should be
[16:14:30] <RikusW> I've been busy converting a ROM based 66-88MHz two way radio to AVR control
[16:15:18] <RikusW> I reverse engineered it and connected one of my U2S boards to it to test, used the debug mode and code in visual studio to check everything
[16:15:32] <RikusW> but eventually I'll put it all on a m8
[16:15:45] <RikusW> with a serial port to a PC
[16:16:32] <RikusW> The radio itself only have a 7segment display an a 3 leds and 2 buttons.....
[16:16:47] <RikusW> making it kind of hard to add extra funtionality
[16:17:00] <RikusW> oh, and a 16 channel selector switch
[16:17:31] <vectory> im not sure i follow :)
[16:17:46] <vectory> you tested what exactly using u2s?
[16:18:17] <RikusW> connected it to the modified radio
[16:18:40] <RikusW> now I can tune any frequency I want instead of reprogramming a UVEPROM
[16:19:34] <vectory> you should write extensive blog posts about such stuff
[16:19:49] <vectory> someone might pick it up and offer you a good job, if you are even interested
[16:19:58] <RikusW> I'd rather not transmit on unknown bands, it'll be illegal :-P
[16:20:18] <RikusW> good idea :)
[16:21:35] <RikusW> (by ROM based I mean it contains no MCU, only a oscillator, counter and a ROM, clocking the data directly to a PLL chip)
[16:22:03] <RikusW> (and another 4099 chip that controls the CTCSS chip
[16:22:04] <vectory> the eprom supplied one of 16 freqs, depending on the switches position?
[16:22:28] <RikusW> yes 4 lines from the switch connects to the address lines on the ROM
[16:23:10] <RikusW> and the counter use 3 address lines
[16:23:33] <RikusW> the PLL used is MC145146
[16:24:18] <RikusW> CTCSS chip is MAX365
[16:24:28] <vectory> dont know these
[16:24:38] <vectory> thats stuff for a blog :)
[16:25:05] <RikusW> look on wikipedia for CTCSS
[16:27:20] <OndraSter> guys, what was the OMAP or whatever was it that we spoke about few days ago? Dualcore (Cortex M4F + M0 at 200 or so MHz) ARM MCU...
[16:29:18] <OndraSter> ah LPC4350
[16:30:45] <vectory> im having an interview for a small job at a security electronics firm tomorrow, they will so not choose me if i tell them how i could blink leds
[16:31:17] <OndraSter> lol
[16:31:21] <OndraSter> is that all they need?
[16:31:52] <vectory> i dont know, job description is vague, assembling modules and testing
[16:32:00] <OndraSter> duh
[16:32:30] <RikusW> no programming required for assembly :)
[16:32:48] <RikusW> apart from flashing it
[16:32:58] <RikusW> (maybe)
[16:32:58] <vectory> well, if it was programming i would be less bothered
[16:33:43] <vectory> its the hardware i dont understand, like what voltage does an io pin supply?
[16:34:21] <RikusW> usually Vcc or Gnd
[16:35:22] <RikusW> assembling ready made stuff should be fairly straighforward
[16:39:27] <vectory> i'm connecting the u2s
[16:40:22] <vectory> for stk500 mode, should ithe avr connect to the board first?
[16:41:04] <RikusW> you could do it that way
[16:41:21] <RikusW> its a bit safer
[16:42:05] <RikusW> have you set stk500 (82) to the default mode ?
[16:42:16] <RikusW> or is it still bootloader (81) mode ?
[16:43:13] <vectory> m81
[16:43:30] <vectory> guess it doesnt make a difference then
[16:43:45] <RikusW> if you mostly use it to program other avr's you can load U2Settings_STK500.eep into the eeprom
[16:43:54] <RikusW> then it will be stk500 by default
[16:44:50] <RikusW> or use u2scli 82
[16:45:13] <vectory> ye, the button pressing is tedious. but it does work
[16:46:01] <RikusW> it is, thats why I added the PC apps and eeprom settings
[16:47:53] * RikusW just came across a weird MCU http://www.datasheetarchive.com/ em78p565
[16:48:31] <RikusW> Its used in the MIC of a new two way radio
[16:51:14] <vectory> i call two-way-radios walky-talkies, if its what i think it is
[16:51:24] <OndraSter> RikusW, it asked me to install chinese
[16:51:28] <OndraSter> withotu it there was no text lol
[16:51:44] <OndraSter> 13bit OTP?!
[16:51:45] <OndraSter> wtf
[16:52:06] <RikusW> vectory: it is, but 30Watt not 100mW or so
[16:52:27] <RikusW> OndraSter: wait till you look at the weird register usage
[16:52:36] <OndraSter> VII.1 Operational registers?
[16:52:42] <RikusW> it makes AVR seem like heaven...
[16:52:48] <OndraSter> R0 = R4?
[16:52:51] <OndraSter> R1 = TCC?
[16:52:55] <OndraSter> R2 = PC (IP)?
[16:52:56] <OndraSter> wtf
[16:53:02] <RikusW> yes
[16:53:05] <OndraSter> that is just
[16:53:12] <OndraSter> I would say wrong, but it is weird
[16:53:30] <RikusW> R0 = *R4
[16:53:32] <OndraSter> I am glad for AVR!
[16:53:46] <OndraSter> 32 *do whatever you want* registers
[16:54:20] <grummund> RikusW:
http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/com_prod_dsc.asp?gid=&tid=000015&tt=com_adm_ds
[16:57:13] <RikusW> grummund: my browser wants to save com_prod_dsc.asp :S whats on that page ?
[16:57:51] <grummund> works for me...
[16:58:06] <grummund> "The EM78P567/ P566 /P565 is an 8-bit RISC type microprocessor with low power , high speed CMOS technology ...."
[16:58:30] <RikusW> ah the official page
[16:58:32] <vectory> RikusW: shame on you, you dont write your code lines with max 80 chars xD
[16:58:54] <grummund> http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/index.asp
[16:58:59] <RikusW> vectory: which code ?
[16:59:12] <vectory> u2scli
[16:59:24] <grummund> put EM78P567 in the search box.
[16:59:57] <RikusW> now my browser wants to save index.asp :S :S
[17:00:10] <grummund> :D
[17:00:23] <RikusW> maybe i should try another one... I already got the datasheet anyways
[17:01:35] <RikusW> vectory: who still uses 80 column displays anymore anyways ? ;)
[17:01:44] <vectory> my terminal window :P
[17:02:13] <RikusW> try reading LUFA code then, there is really really long lines meant to be viewed on widescreen....................
[17:02:27] <vectory> i really should :(
[17:02:51] <RikusW> get a better terminal ?
[17:03:05] <RikusW> konsole in linux can easily resize
[17:03:54] <RikusW> even on 1024x768 I can easily get 120 chars
[17:05:23] <vectory> i was kidding, its just i rather break after 80chars than resite, its silly
[17:05:40] <RikusW> which terminal are you using btw ?
[17:05:57] <vectory> gbome term
[17:06:17] <RikusW> ah, default on ubuntu
[17:06:19] <vectory> gnome
[17:06:24] <vectory> ye
[17:07:01] <RikusW> vectory: I coded the entire radio test app using U2S_Debug.cpp, I didn't even bother flashing the U2S board... :)
[17:08:26] <RikusW> so for simple apps where speed isn't an issue U2S_Debug.cpp is ideal to experiment
[17:08:48] <RikusW> and you do get the PC side debugging features too
[17:10:02] <vectory> if i read your googlesite correctly, it cant alter progmem
[17:10:51] <RikusW> the "firmware" runs on the PC inside visual studio or gdb
[17:11:21] <RikusW> there is some limitations, it cannot do hard realtime....
[17:11:56] <RikusW> and using the UART with it will probably result in dropped bytes
[17:12:28] <RikusW> but simply controlling IO pins with some leds and switches, etc is ideal
[17:12:51] <RikusW> even a stepper motor can be made to work that way
[17:14:55] <vectory> well, i dont want to run on the m32u2, dont want it to break
[17:16:09] <RikusW> so have you fried any avrs so far ?
[17:16:43] <vectory> sadly not
[17:16:48] <OndraSter> *sadly*
[17:16:50] * RikusW have
[17:17:03] <vectory> sure you have, you do actual work
[17:17:18] <OndraSter> my friend burnt one mega16
[17:17:18] <RikusW> a m32l fried due to a faulty psu...
[17:17:22] <OndraSter> and he has got no idea how
[17:17:27] <OndraSter> it worked just fine
[17:17:33] <OndraSter> then it had problems running the code but flashing worked
[17:17:38] <OndraSter> and then even flashing didn't work anymore :)
[17:18:26] <RikusW> and a m328p, though I discovered its DWEN fuse was set.... and it got fixed :)
[17:19:07] <OndraSter> :D
[17:19:21] <OndraSter> just (un)set it back
[17:19:58] <RikusW> vectory: if you do manage to fry the m32u2, get someone with the right tools to replace it, I'll give you the hex file
[17:21:32] <RikusW> OndraSter: my U2S board in ISP mode automagically disables dW, but only if you add a 10k pullup to RST
[17:22:43] <RikusW> (so I forgot both the clock and the resistor, and considered the m328p to be dead....)
[17:25:16] <OndraSter> wait
[17:25:21] <OndraSter> how can you disable dW in ISP mode?
[17:25:25] <OndraSter> wait
[17:25:26] <OndraSter> what?
[17:25:43] <RikusW> my U2S board can do that
[17:25:50] <OndraSter> as in on device itself?
[17:25:54] <RikusW> its a unique feature
[17:25:56] <OndraSter> I thought that AVRs can't change the fuses
[17:26:00] <OndraSter> on themselves
[17:26:02] <OndraSter> when in BL
[17:26:21] <RikusW> it doesn't change the fuses, it just turn off dW temporarily
[17:26:25] <OndraSter> oh
[17:26:31] <OndraSter> there is something like JTAGEN but for dW?
[17:26:42] <RikusW> my board is a STK500 programmer
[17:26:57] <RikusW> among other things
[17:27:10] <RikusW> yes DWEN
[17:27:35] <RikusW> but sending 0x06 to the reset pin at the right baud disables dW
[17:27:39] <OndraSter> oh
[17:27:49] <RikusW> until you power cycle
[17:28:10] <RikusW> the right baud usually is AVR clock / 128
[17:28:12] <OndraSter> are you the same guy that managed to erase (change) device ID on few AVRs? :D
[17:28:26] <RikusW> thats Steffanx and his m16's
[17:28:28] <OndraSter> ah
[17:29:01] <RikusW> with his custom jtag mkii clone
[17:30:10] <RikusW> I once managed to turn on RSTDSBL simply by programming at much to high speed on ISP =-O
[17:31:05] <vectory> Setting mode to 82
[17:31:06] <vectory> spd = 115200 = 4098
[17:31:13] <vectory> bits = 8N1 = 30
[17:31:42] <vectory> so far so good
[17:31:49] <vectory> i guess
[17:31:58] <RikusW> no use avrdud as usualy
[17:32:09] <RikusW> *avrdude
[17:32:18] <vectory> i dont usually use avrdude
[17:32:25] <RikusW> what do you use ?
[17:32:42] <vectory> nothing yet -___-
[17:33:07] <RikusW> you can download RavrProg from my site an compile it...
[17:33:17] <RikusW> then you have a GUI
[17:33:30] <RikusW> and it will do mode switching transparently
[17:33:59] <RikusW> you'll need qt4 and libusb-0.12 dev files installed
[17:34:26] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[17:35:29] <vectory> lets see which version i have
[17:35:45] <OndraSter> zomg qt :P
[17:36:31] <OndraSter> "Postage and other overheads to Europe is about 5 Euro."
[17:36:32] <OndraSter> quite cheap
[17:36:36] <OndraSter> although it is small package
[17:37:55] <OndraSter> that is crazy
[17:38:03] <OndraSter> mega32u2 costs almost 3.9€/1pc
[17:38:06] <OndraSter> err
[17:38:08] <OndraSter> 3.63€
[17:38:40] <RikusW> OndraSter: but you do get a STK500 and JTAG programmer included
[17:38:47] <OndraSter> sure
[17:38:52] <OndraSter> but the chip itself I mean
[17:38:59] <OndraSter> is expensive to buy :o
[17:39:17] <OndraSter> I bet you could do STK500 emulator and JTAG mkI on xmega as well :)
[17:39:26] <OndraSter> fix some pieces but done in a day or so
[17:39:34] <vectory> rikus could do it on a tiny, im sure
[17:39:35] <RikusW> stk500 HVPP mode wants 5V
[17:39:45] <OndraSter> HVPP wants 12V
[17:39:48] <OndraSter> on reset
[17:40:05] <RikusW> vectory: I tried, tiny's got too little ram...
[17:40:10] <RikusW> and no usb either
[17:40:11] <vectory> ;D
[17:40:18] <OndraSter> V-USB :)
[17:40:26] <OndraSter> anyway, what does " This product may require a licence to export from the United States." on Mouser mean?!
[17:40:42] <OndraSter> let alone "licence"
[17:40:53] <RikusW> OndraSter: stupid DES and AES crypto support...
[17:40:54] <vectory> you cant export it nilly willy
[17:41:04] <OndraSter> *may require*
[17:41:11] <OndraSter> also the product is made outside of USA :D
[17:41:42] <RikusW> Crypto laws ban exports to Iraq etc...
[17:42:26] <OndraSter> oh
[17:42:35] <RikusW> I failed to get an xmega via RS due to that same reason :S :S
[17:42:36] <OndraSter> right, it has AES module in it
[17:43:01] <RikusW> I don't even want cryptto support...
[17:43:13] <OndraSter> I don't care if it has it or not
[17:43:23] <RikusW> me neither
[17:43:24] <OndraSter> I do wonder to which countries does that ban export apply?
[17:43:37] <RikusW> not sure
[17:43:47] <RikusW> but it makes exporting it difficult
[17:44:09] <RikusW> unless you just mail it without telling whats inside :-P
[17:44:09] <OndraSter> bollocks :(
[17:44:26] <OndraSter> stupid americans!
[17:44:28] * RikusW got one illegal xmega128a1 :)
[17:44:34] <OndraSter> Basically the reason that it is illegal to export strong crypto software from the US is that the US State Deparment sees fit to classify crypto software as munitions along with chemical and biological weapons, tanks, heavy artillery, and military aircraft.
[17:44:54] <OndraSter> this is really stupid
[17:45:00] <OndraSter> wait, software
[17:45:14] * RikusW got one X mega bomb over here then :)
[17:45:48] <Tom_itx> hide if you see half dozen black SUV's pull up
[17:45:59] <OndraSter> I shall write local "reseller" of mouser whether they can supply those
[17:46:15] <RikusW> Tom_itx: they'll have difficulty finding me :-P
[17:46:33] <OndraSter> in the worst case I can send it to some address in the USA and have it resend to me in a small package :D
[17:46:43] <OndraSter> and marked as "electronic parts @ $10"
[17:46:50] <Tom_itx> who would do such a thing?
[17:46:57] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, shipito.com
[17:47:06] <OndraSter> or any of my friends :D
[17:48:49] <OndraSter> darn GIMME MOAR RAM INSTEAD OF EEPROM
[17:48:55] <OndraSter> 16kB RAM + 4kB EE?
[17:49:06] <OndraSter> how big is EEPROM cell compared to SRAM cell?
[17:49:36] <RikusW> I guess SRAM is bigger
[17:50:04] <OndraSter> well SRAM has 6 transistors
[17:51:01] <OndraSter> 2T
[17:51:02] <OndraSter> :(
[17:51:03] <OndraSter> for EE
[17:51:18] <OndraSter> that's barely 1kB SRAM that would fit into that space
[17:51:20] <OndraSter> oh well
[17:51:24] <OndraSter> we can't have everything
[17:51:32] <OndraSter> but I darn want xmega512a1ue :)
[17:51:38] <RikusW> DRAM only have gotten a cap, or maybe multiple bits per cap by now
[17:51:53] <OndraSter> yep
[17:51:56] <OndraSter> but they require refreshing
[17:52:04] <RikusW> which is a pain
[17:52:11] <OndraSter> yes
[17:52:14] <RikusW> unless you have a builting controller for that
[17:52:23] <OndraSter> I can do refreshing on 8MHz mega with 10% CPU load
[17:52:28] <OndraSter> so not that big pain
[17:52:46] <OndraSter> (every 16ms 1024 cycles it was I think for the module I had)
[17:52:50] <OndraSter> good ol' 1MB SIMM :P
[17:52:52] <RikusW> xmega may have a builtin controller
[17:52:57] <OndraSter> they do
[17:52:59] <OndraSter> but only a1 series
[17:53:07] <OndraSter> and there is no mega256a1u
[17:53:26] <OndraSter> and if it had even ethernet...
[17:53:28] <OndraSter> o nom nom
[17:53:36] <OndraSter> and they would be officially sold as 64MHz parts
[17:53:46] <OndraSter> because MOST of the xmegas can be OCed to that frequency just fine
[17:53:48] <RikusW> how about at32uc ? my at32uc3a3256 xpld board got 8MB of SDRAM :)
[17:54:05] <OndraSter> avr32 has longer errata than the datasheet itself :)
[17:54:09] <OndraSter> and I'd rather use ARM over avr32
[17:54:12] <OndraSter> much more common
[17:54:37] <OndraSter> and the bigger device you have the more common you want it to be (at least I do)
[17:54:48] <RikusW> hmm makes sense
[17:55:09] <OndraSter> even Atmel now does a LOT into ARM
[17:55:46] * RikusW wants ARM support on the Dragon...
[17:56:41] <OndraSter> hehe
[17:56:42] <OndraSter> so do I
[17:56:44] <OndraSter> ARMageddon
[17:59:25] <OndraSter> that Segger jlink is like 200 bucks
[17:59:27] <OndraSter> US bucks
[17:59:48] <OndraSter> too bad that atmel studio doesn't support even non-atmel Cortex and FT2232 chips :P
[17:59:53] <OndraSter> for jtag
[18:00:13] <OndraSter> getting debug working on windows with those requires CYGWIN
[18:01:57] <RikusW> Atmel won't support the competition for free :-P
[18:03:27] <Kevin`> atmel shouldn't be in the business of selling debugging hardware, it just annoys users to make it incompatible
[18:03:59] <Kevin`> (nor should any of the other chip manufacturers)
[18:04:04] <OndraSter> :D
[18:04:52] <vectory> latest ravrprog i have is from '12.11.30, on your site its '12.12.01, was the change important?
[18:05:59] <RikusW> probably not really
[18:06:22] <RikusW> but the download is only a few kb ;)
[18:06:56] <RikusW> or do you have it already compiled ?
[18:07:02] <vectory> '11 not '12 ofc
[18:07:11] <vectory> ye, download anyway
[18:08:08] <RikusW> its only a few days apart..
[18:08:17] <OndraSter> like one :)
[18:09:35] <RikusW> vectory: do you have a time machine ? :-P you're downloading a future version now :-P
[18:10:06] <vectory> i noticed
[18:10:35] <RikusW> typo ?
[18:11:03] <vectory> i did correct the mistake, didnt i?
[18:11:36] <RikusW> ah
[20:56:43] <cehteh> mhm .. a tantal is not really the best idea for driving a multivibrator .. but i dont have anything else at hand here
[20:57:06] <cehteh> ne555 in software on the tiny ftw :P
[21:50:51] * Xark thinks this looks like an interesting XMega breadboard to play with: http://www.batsocks.co.uk/products/BreadMate/XMega%20PDI.htm
[21:52:25] <spjt> does the usbtinyisp work with xmega?
[21:53:25] <spjt> I have an xmega128 sitting here, maybe I can't even use it
[21:53:43] <cehteh> how about just trying?
[21:54:43] <spjt> good point? i need to make a circuit board
[21:54:54] <cehteh> isnt the programming capabilits rather limited by the program you use?
[21:55:17] <cehteh> avrdude or whatever
[21:56:06] <cehteh> as long you do SPI and not HVSP
[21:56:29] <cehteh> is there any reasonable cheap programmer for high voltage programming?
[21:57:16] <cehteh> and by cheap i mean cheaper than just dumping some tinys who failed
[21:58:34] <spjt> I know I messed up the fuses on one of my chips, I could fix it with HVSP but I'd have to buy an xtal which would cost more than the chip
[21:59:30] <cehteh> exactly
[22:00:28] <cehteh> a tinly costs 1.20 Eur here .. if i mess one up its prolly cheaper to get the next one than a hvsp programmer
[22:00:41] <spjt> buy in bulk
[22:00:56] <cehteh> well i dont plan to mess many up :)
[22:01:21] <cehteh> but i need all 6 data lines on a sensor .. which finally will be sealed and not reprogrammable anyways
[22:01:58] <spjt> i only ruined one, when I started, avr-gcc comes with default fuses that ruined mine
[22:01:59] <cehteh> and i can debug it with only 5 lines initially, activate the last when the complex parts work
[22:02:16] <spjt> as long as you have the fuse settings right you can't really lose a chip afaik
[22:02:44] <cehteh> well if you fuse RSTDBL then you cant reprogramm it anymore with low voltage
[22:02:54] <cehteh> and i just need that for the 6th data line
[22:03:11] <spjt> I think mine ended up being set to require an external 1mhz xtal
[22:03:22] <spjt> which I don't have and it would cost more than the chip cost
[22:03:25] <cehteh> ok thats another problem :)
[22:03:30] <cehteh> yep
[22:03:53] <cehteh> well cant you emulate a 1mhz clock/xtal with another avr?
[22:04:12] <Xark> spjt: You need a PDI programmer (however that breadboard has a bootloader).
[22:04:16] <spjt> hmm.. yeah.
[22:04:51] <spjt> I could have before I took a chisel to it to try to look at the chip
[22:06:02] <Xark> spjt: See anything interesting? :)
[22:07:12] <spjt> Xark: I split open a atmega48. the actual chip is pretty small. :)
[22:08:06] <spjt> it was the DIP, so it's 99.9% plastic
[22:08:43] <cehteh> haha how much square mm do AVR's have? i guess the tinys are .. well tiny :) most surface is prolly used for the bonding areas :)
[22:09:16] <Xark> spjt: Cool. Google finds this image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/5988899172/
[22:09:37] <spjt> I didn't even see the chips, I saw the wires leading to it
[22:10:12] <cehteh> Xark: oh thats biggier than i expected :)
[22:10:41] <spjt> is there any AVR libraries for Yamaha OPL?
[22:10:55] <spjt> I haven't found anything
[22:12:48] <Xark> Hmm:ATMEGA32L...manufactured by Atmel in the Rousset 200mm wafer fabrication unit (France). It uses a 0.5µm CMOS process, with 3 layers of Metal (Al). The die size is 11.32 mm².
[22:13:47] <cehteh> thats 3.3mm per side .. not that bad :)
[22:13:50] <spjt> I have a SID I want to use with the AVR.. too afraid to blow it out to actually try
[22:15:24] <Xark> cehteh: Yeah, still pretty small for today chips. That wafer made it look like half the chip was some kind of hardware instruction decode look-up table (makes sense for 1 cycle - no microcode).
[22:52:06] <Casper> cehteh: check that the internal vref is precise enought for your application
[22:52:49] <cehteh> i only need relative comparsions
[22:54:12] <cehteh> but i think with a divider with 2 taps it doesnt depend on the input voltage (7805, but longer cable, few meters) while if one part is the internal reference then comparing to maybe not exact vcc may make it drift
[22:56:39] <cehteh> how fast is input muxing?
[22:56:59] <cehteh> cant find any notice on the datasheet .. and are there intermediate states when muxing?
[23:06:02] <CapnKernel> cehteh: I've found some problems reading straight after switching the mux
[23:06:27] <CapnKernel> I think due to capacitance, may need time to let the signal settle down
[23:07:16] * Casper stills wonder why it is so hard to find an IC that handle buck boost or sepic...
[23:07:45] <Casper> digikey forgot to set a "synchronious" "buck-boost" and "sepic" fields
[23:07:57] <Casper> in their parametric search
[23:08:37] <CapnKernel> I want an IC which will take 5V from USB, do charge management on a 3.4V Li-ion battery , and provide 5V to my circuit when there's no power from USB
[23:09:04] <drgreenthumb> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MCIMX233CAG4B/MCIMX233CAG4B-ND/2253551?cur=USD :P
[23:09:07] <CapnKernel> USB-on-the-go needs this functionality, so why do I find it so hard to find an easy-to-use single-chip solution, that doesn't cost like USD7?
[23:09:09] <Casper> that might be 2 IC, but actually I think your needs are easier to find than mine
[23:10:32] <drgreenthumb> ^^ btw that has onboard li-ion charger, boost circuit for 5v host from battery, charge from USB or ext. it's pretty amazing.
[23:10:48] * drgreenthumb is very tempted to design a board with it
[23:13:03] <cehteh> CapnKernel: uhm .. well i prolly have to try, having a signal in the 100-500khz range here
[23:13:35] <cehteh> prolly needs some deliberate delay before enabling the comparator interrupt again
[23:14:18] <cehteh> (and having a timer at full speed trigger a overflow every 256 cyles doesnt make this simpler :P)
[23:15:30] <Casper> cehteh: afaik, 100kHz is too fast if you switch channels
[23:15:42] <Casper> it's barelly ok for single channel
[23:17:28] <cehteh> is switching between internal reference any better than muxing?
[23:18:01] <cehteh> well i guess i just have to try and experiment on this
[23:18:36] <CapnKernel> Spend a few cents on an SPI or I2C A2D chip
[23:20:27] <w|zzy> +1
[23:21:18] <cehteh> uhm :)
[23:21:58] <cehteh> tiny13 has no hw spi/i2c ...
[23:22:19] <cehteh> and i need little more than that
[23:22:26] <CapnKernel> drgreenthumb: Did I mention the part about the chip not costing USD7? :-)
[23:22:36] <CapnKernel> Why on earth are they so expensive?
[23:23:12] <drgreenthumb> yeah more controllers should start having power schemes like that. makes creating a mobile device a lot simpler.
[23:26:45] <drgreenthumb> CapnKernel, heh well for $7 you also get a 454MHz controller. all in all I'd say not a bad deal. but yes it would be great if there was similar power driver chips with no uC, or smaller/cheaper microcontroller in it. or both. I think I've seen some usb based chargers on digikey that could work. don't remember them being as high as $7 :P
[23:27:29] * Casper hates the fact that all the dcdc buck-boost I can find is for <=5.5V in/out
[23:30:40] <CapnKernel> This is a good chip: BQ24150
[23:36:45] <CapnKernel> Mouser price: $3.50
[23:37:05] <drgreenthumb> I was looking at
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MCP73838-FCI%2FMF/MCP73838-FCI%2FMF-ND/1635778
[23:37:14] * CapnKernel wants a chip for about a dollar something
[23:37:44] <drgreenthumb> that microchip one goes down to just over $1 if you get 10
[23:39:37] <drgreenthumb> btw heh about 2 years ago a guy named AVRPhreaq in here traded me a trackball for some junk. just got around to hooking it up
http://na.suzohapp.com/trackballs/560100xx.htm and played Centipede. awesome :)
[23:41:08] <drgreenthumb> and by "hooking it up" I mean taking a plank of wood and cutting a hole out of the middle very sloppily :P
[23:41:20] <drgreenthumb> and couple arcade buttons
[23:41:43] * drgreenthumb needs Tom_itx's mill.
[23:41:56] <CapnKernel> drgreenthumb: That chip will charge a battery from USB or AC, but won't boost from the battery back to 5V
[23:42:04] <Casper> . . . ti's parametric table is broken
[23:42:12] <drgreenthumb> oh right CapnKernel. yeah separate boost.
[23:42:19] <Casper> select "synchronious" and all the results are non-synchronious
[23:42:21] <drgreenthumb> that's why it's so cheeeeeeeep :P
[23:42:24] <CapnKernel> <grumble grumble>
[23:42:27] <CapnKernel> Yeah
[23:56:44] <zump> hey, i want to use TWI (USI), but also want to program the device using 6pin AVRISPV2 header. what happens when i connect pins when there is some data being transferred??
[23:59:53] <drgreenthumb> it'll explode! aren't you in reset during avrisp programming?
[23:59:59] <specing> lol
