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[00:00:10] <annath> okay so I got that board working, value of _bit is 00000101, so 9. How the heck does a constant referring to 2 turn into 9?
[02:22:56] * RikusW thinks windows versions should get a - prefix :-P
[02:23:36] <RikusW> increased restrictions cause decreased funtionality....
[02:37:44] <Casper> what I find funny is on xp pro vs home
[02:37:48] <Casper> basically zero difference
[02:37:52] <Casper> 'cept the price
[02:38:14] <Xark> Casper: Well, they broke domains (on purpose, of course). :)
[02:38:58] <Casper> and thing I noticed is that unless you carefully read the license, you don't know that you can't use home in commercial application
[02:39:17] <Casper> hence why there is so many home in business
[02:39:34] <RikusW> heh
[02:40:38] * RikusW wonders why windows installs slows down over time.....
[02:40:39] <Xark> Casper: Crazy. I am not positive but I think I recall something about first right of refusal for your offspring in there too... :)
[02:40:51] <RikusW> My Debian install don't have such a problem at all
[02:41:11] <Casper> RikusW: registry base
[02:41:25] <RikusW> Casper: heard something about that
[02:41:29] <RikusW> can it be that bad ?
[02:41:37] <Casper> seems so...
[02:41:38] <Xark> RikusW: Not much time, just install Office and time windows boot before and after. :)
[02:42:11] <Casper> also, the way windows was designed, it is impossible to do a proper system partition defrag
[02:42:22] <Casper> and the most important files can't be defragged
[02:42:34] <RikusW> and then ofcourse there is viruses.... and anti-virus sw.... that will slow win to a crawl...
[02:42:43] <Casper> i.e. all in use files, registry (in use) and pagefile (in use)
[02:42:58] <RikusW> Casper: Norton can defrag the pagefile
[02:43:05] <Casper> RikusW: and idiots that install 4 antivirus, 3 anti-spywares and other stuff
[02:43:08] <RikusW> at least on win9x
[02:43:14] <Casper> RikusW: yes and no
[02:43:24] <Casper> it can not touch the pagefile during normal mode
[02:43:34] <Casper> it have to reboot and do it before windows fully start
[02:43:59] <RikusW> I've seen Norton defrag the pagefile in normal mode in win9x
[02:44:38] <Casper> I don't think it's possible... but who knows what those idiots at norton did to break the system
[02:44:46] <Casper> and yes, norton does break stuff all the time
[02:44:54] <RikusW> it seems to work just fine
[02:45:02] <RikusW> btw I don't think there even is a defrag utility for ext2 filesystems ?
[02:45:18] <Casper> install norton system work, and your windows is half dead...
[02:45:22] <Casper> ext2/3 no
[02:45:27] <Casper> ext4 yes (finally)
[02:45:29] <RikusW> I never defragmented my Linux partitions and it haven't slowed down yet...
[02:45:52] <Casper> linux actually is way more intelligent on how it deal with files
[02:46:00] <RikusW> somehow XP seems to be an expert at fragmenting files.....
[02:46:07] <Casper> if it know the file size, it can try to find a block that is that big
[02:46:13] <RikusW> just as I thought :)
[02:46:26] <Casper> fat12/16/32 is actually really stupid
[02:46:34] <Casper> it use the first block available
[02:46:50] <RikusW> the FAT drivers at least...
[02:46:59] <Casper> ntfs actually use "a block" near the center of the disk
[02:47:30] <Casper> fat driver that is specs compilant
[02:48:52] <Casper> and due how linux deal with files, fragmentation happend less often, and cause less issues
[02:49:00] * RikusW thinks FS drivers should be written to prevent fragmentation in the first place
[02:49:12] <Casper> unless you have big files and a fs that is quite full, then havok happend
[02:50:04] <Casper> another problem is that there is no real mechanism to tell the filesystem "I want to write a file that is X big and will grow in size"
[02:50:20] <RikusW> how about if some part of the disk is reserved for small files ?
[02:51:01] <Casper> not sure it could help
[02:51:09] <RikusW> yes, that is a problem, a new funtion should be added to tell the OS the intended size...
[02:51:21] <Casper> the main issues is that large files will be fragmented due to the big size... and small holes
[02:51:58] <Casper> I wonder if e4defrag will soon implement free space concatenation
[02:54:02] <RikusW> seems that the FS needs to be unmounted to use e4defrag ?
[02:54:19] <Casper> but the funny thing is... soon fragmentation will be a thing of the past
[02:54:20] <Casper> no
[02:54:23] <Casper> it's online
[02:54:46] <Casper> basically it copy, check for change and swap
[02:55:01] <Casper> transparent to the application
[02:55:26] <RikusW> why because of ssd's ?
[02:55:33] <Casper> yes
[02:56:05] <RikusW> There is an offline ext2 defragmenter, e2defrag en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3
[02:56:42] <RikusW> I messed around with ext2 a bit trying to recover files from a damaged ext2 fs....
[02:56:56] <RikusW> So I know a bit about the internals of ext2 :)
[02:57:16] <RikusW> but that was quite a while ago, iirc 2005
[02:57:29] <Casper> the article about shake is innacurate
[02:58:05] <RikusW> basically there is 128MB block each with its allocation bitmap and "fat"
[02:58:08] <Casper> it simply issue "cp" and do not check the status of the newer file
[02:58:39] <Casper> I ended up with a worse filesystem than before shake
[03:01:13] <Casper> before: 159 extents, after: 85.... that's better...
[03:15:11] * specing uses btrfs for non-important data
[03:15:58] <specing> I'll try ZFS once I figure out how to build it
[03:16:32] <mrfrenzy> what os are you using?
[03:22:10] <specing> Gentoo/Linux
[03:23:03] <inflex> is ZFS '
[03:23:09] <inflex> is ZFS 'properly' available on linux?
[03:23:32] <specing> #define properly?
[03:24:08] <mrfrenzy> no, it is not
[03:24:16] <mrfrenzy> just as unstable as btrfs
[03:24:28] <mrfrenzy> if you want zfs get freebsd/nexenta/opensolaris
[03:26:05] <specing> #zfsonlinux is quite active you know
[03:26:49] <inflex> ja, that's what I was thinking,i t's not actually 'official' in linux due to the licence issues
[03:27:04] <inflex> and brtfs is something I'll avoid for probably another decade.
[03:28:01] <inflex> while the ext series of filesystems have their own issues, they are at least mostly dependable
[03:28:44] <specing> inflex: Why avoid btrfs?
[03:28:57] <specing> Im using it for about a month now without problems
[03:44:34] <inflex> It's still listed very much as being in development, so while it's working fine now, they may release an update in the future which might bring about chaos
[03:44:58] <inflex> the other thing is, there's no compelling reason to switch to it from ext4 as yet that offsets the higher risk
[03:45:52] <inflex> when it reaches maturity though, I'm sure it'll be quite good... if ZFS doesn't end up being legally migrated over first
[03:52:24] <specing> I still keep the system + my important data on ext4 though
[03:57:07] <inflex> you could always try ReiserFS :D
[04:27:02] <mrfrenzy> the FS with performance worth murdering for
[04:29:58] <theos> murdering ntfs devs?
[04:30:53] <mrfrenzy> it's only fun if you know the history of hans reiser
[04:31:27] <OndraSter> hehe
[04:31:34] <OndraSter> not sure if it was just rumours or true
[04:31:46] <mrfrenzy> it is true unfortunately
[04:31:47] <OndraSter> he killed or smth his wife, right?
[04:31:51] <mrfrenzy> that's what killed the fs ;)
[04:32:08] <theos> killed his wife! way to go
[04:32:23] <OndraSter> what's wrong on NTFS btw? :D
[04:33:11] <theos> whats wrong with m$?
[04:33:53] <RikusW> everything :-P
[04:34:05] <theos> "Hans Reiser reportedly selected from a mail-order bride catalogue, and subsequently married, Nina Sharanova"
[04:36:50] <theos> mrfrenzy thats a good history right there on wikipedia...
[04:37:02] <mrfrenzy> indeed it is
[04:37:14] <mrfrenzy> and I'm sad for it, would have loved to see reiserFS finished
[04:37:23] <mrfrenzy> I used it for several years
[04:37:41] <RikusW> why can't he continue development in prison ?
[04:38:51] <theos> your mail-order russian wife asks for alimony,,, you keel her! bam! epic.
[04:44:55] <inflex> ReiserFS was interesting, but it was catastrophic when things went wrong
[04:45:21] <inflex> it was like RAID0 of the filesystem world
[04:46:16] <mrfrenzy> RikusW: I don't think you get internet access in prison
[05:43:59] <abcminiuser> Christ humanity perplexes me
[05:44:00] <abcminiuser> "I could donate this $10 to starving kids, but I really think Jesus needs a new pipe organ...."
[05:45:47] <specing> LOL
[05:46:12] <specing> Not that donating 10$ to starving kids would help anyway
[05:46:46] <drgreenthumb> it's true, he does need a new pipe organ. the first one fell off after that whole 3 days of being dead thing.
[05:49:23] <RikusW> oooh :-P
[05:50:07] <theos> who plays a pipe organ thesedays anyway...
[05:50:41] <RikusW> theos: its still in use in traditional churches here in South Africa...
[05:50:56] <theos> oh for other purposes...
[05:51:59] <RikusW> abcminiuser: who did you quote ? your gf ?
[05:53:20] <theos> it is someone's thoughts when they are about to spend the 10$ in their hand
[05:54:06] <specing> Why would anyone donate $10, if one can buy AVRs instead?
[05:54:34] <theos> like a kid thinking of buying an icecream. or a man going to a h**k*r...
[05:54:41] <abcminiuser> RikusW, pseudo-quote based on Reddit comments
[05:54:44] <theos> yup buy moar avrs
[05:55:01] <drgreenthumb> ten bucks is nearly enough for a avrisp clone from tom!
[05:55:07] <RikusW> $10 isn't worth much anymore anyways..
[05:55:36] <specing> How many AVRs can one buy with $10?
[05:55:42] <theos> here is it... some people buy a month's food for 10$
[05:55:43] <RikusW> drgreenthumb: or one of my stk500/jtagice clones
[05:56:20] <drgreenthumb> RikusW, got a link?
[05:56:31] <theos> my usbasp programmer was less than 10$ :D
[05:56:44] <RikusW> drgreenthumb:
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[05:56:56] <RikusW> the jtagice mki clone can work on m32u2 or any other avr
[05:57:06] <RikusW> and its open source and free
[05:57:22] <specing> You can get about 20 ATtiny13As for $10!
[05:57:28] <OndraSter> :)
[05:57:41] <OndraSter> yeah
[05:57:54] <OndraSter> CLOUD SERVICE BASED ON ATTINYS!
[05:57:58] <OndraSter> go go go!
[05:58:12] <drgreenthumb> that's cool RikusW I always wanted some debugging hardware. heh you know what I do now? 2 hacked up 802.15.4 modules, one connected over USB virtual serial and I just do dump debugging :P
[05:58:25] <RikusW> OndraSter you'll need to hook up some SPI ram too ;)
[05:58:41] <OndraSter> 64B shall be enough for everybody
[05:58:55] <RikusW> drgreenthumb: the mki only supports the older avrs unfortunately
[05:59:23] <RikusW> I have modified the programming algorith to support newer AVR's but haven't put that on the site yet...
[05:59:48] <RikusW> it works in AS4 and avarice
[06:00:42] <RikusW> using the new fw avarice could be hacked to support all jtag megas :)
[06:00:55] <RikusW> since the OCD stuff seems to be the same
[06:09:55] <RikusW> hi vectory
[06:15:03] <OndraSter> hi victory :)
[06:16:55] <specing> victory!
[06:17:08] * RikusW is reading www.agner.org/optimize
[06:19:05] <OndraSter> VICTORY SHALL BE MINE!
[06:20:40] <specing> "If you don't know how to read the .pdf files click here."
[06:20:44] <specing> That killed me
[06:22:59] <Steffanx> When is the funeral specing ?
[06:23:33] <RikusW> Steffanx: you just missed
http://www.agner.org/optimize ;)
[06:24:20] * RikusW wishes someone would write similar docs for HTML and webpages too...
[06:24:51] <specing> Steffanx: read between the lines
[06:25:07] <theos> specing a lot of windows users used to have that problem... pdf files, rar etc :)
[06:26:21] <specing> theos: But when one knows the computer architecture down to assembly level, one should be competent enaugh to SEARCH FOR "pdf reader" on the 'net, wouldn't he?
[06:26:52] <RikusW> specing: uOP level ;)
[06:27:26] <theos> specing you wouldnt make a good "customer help center" guy :)
[06:28:54] <specing> theos: indeed
[06:29:10] <Steffanx> Until they ask questions about windows
[06:29:47] <specing> theos: i'd probably be fired in 5 seconds
[06:30:12] <theos> heh i would just mislead them and have fun :P
[06:30:44] <specing> I'd just point them to ubuntu.com ;P
[06:30:54] <specing> And then make fun of them for the next five years
[06:31:01] <theos> :D
[06:31:35] <specing> But no, Im not PR material
[06:33:02] <RikusW> who around here is ? :-P
[06:33:10] <specing> hmmm
[06:33:17] <specing> idk
[06:33:43] <OndraSter> Dean :D
[06:39:54] <abcminiuser> Good lord no
[06:40:07] <abcminiuser> There's a reason they hide me away from the public ;)
[06:41:12] <Steffanx> Hmm, I remember something else ..
[06:41:27] <Steffanx> Or was that another dean?
[06:42:13] <abcminiuser> Hva
[06:42:14] <abcminiuser> ?
[06:43:13] <Steffanx> ..
[06:45:16] <abcminiuser> What?
[06:45:59] <theos> hello
[06:56:03] <abcminiuser> Hi theos
[06:56:12] <theos> hi
[06:56:12] <tobbor> Hello theos
[06:56:38] <abcminiuser> Hva kan vi hjelper du?
[06:57:04] <theos> ...
[06:57:14] <abcminiuser> Just practising my Norwegian :P
[06:57:26] <OndraSter> lol
[06:57:30] <theos> :D
[06:57:41] <theos> i dont want to learn norwegian now
[06:57:54] <theos> not in english :)
[07:01:38] <RikusW> abcminiuser: seems I understands it somewhat, is it related to Dutch ?
[07:02:04] <abcminiuser> Yes, they invaded and modified the language
[07:02:35] <abcminiuser> Wait, no, Danish influence
[07:02:50] <abcminiuser> All the Scandawegian languages are somwhat related
[07:03:01] <OndraSter> retarded?
[07:03:04] <OndraSter> oh, related
[07:03:12] <OndraSter> :P
[07:03:20] <OndraSter> did you say "how can I hep you"?
[07:03:28] <abcminiuser> Also, Hvor kan, ikke Hva - I always confuse those
[07:03:32] <abcminiuser> Yup :)
[07:03:44] <theos> seriously...
[07:03:45] <OndraSter> it feels like English written by Germans
[07:04:00] <abcminiuser> Bwahahaha
[07:04:12] <abcminiuser> Anyway theos, do you have an AVR issue you need help with?
[07:04:24] <theos> abcminiuser lots :)
[07:05:08] <theos> do i need decoupling caps on every port with vcc and gnd?
[07:05:31] <RikusW> every pin you mean ?
[07:06:22] <theos> no. between vcc and gnd. i have a schematic which suggests that i have vcc and gnd on every port header. and a decoupling cap between vcc and gnd everywhere
[07:06:40] <RikusW> it wouldn't hurt
[07:06:53] <RikusW> what value do you use ?
[07:07:06] <theos> 0.1microfarad
[07:07:11] <theos> ceramic cap
[07:07:41] <theos> i am using 0.01uF cap in parallel to reset button
[07:08:10] <RikusW> 100nF is quite common
[07:08:25] <RikusW> will you be using the ADC ?
[07:08:42] <theos> yes its a dev board so sometime in the near future sure :)
[07:09:31] <RikusW> add Vcc -> 10uH -> AVcc -> 100nF -> Gnd
[07:09:50] <theos> inductor? :/
[07:09:59] <RikusW> yes
[07:10:05] <RikusW> I used 39uH
[07:10:08] <theos> cant find no inductor here :/
[07:10:28] <theos> can make one but cant measure its inductance
[07:10:46] <RikusW> a small resistor might also work somewhat, like say 47 Ohm
[07:10:53] <theos> oh
[07:10:59] <RikusW> but inductor is preferred
[07:11:21] <RikusW> iirc the datasheet mentioned using resistors too
[07:11:25] <theos> what does the inductor do?
[07:11:45] <RikusW> filter out noise on the AVcc input
[07:11:57] <theos> ah
[07:13:16] <theos> i have avcc and aref connected to 100nF caps. the other ends of caps are connected to ground pin which goes to ground
[07:13:49] <OndraSter> I have got 100nf at each vcc pin
[07:13:53] <OndraSter> plus 10uf on each side
[07:15:34] <RikusW> too much capacitance on a USB board might cause trouble...
[07:15:47] <RikusW> due to the surge when connecting it
[07:16:03] <OndraSter> there is polyfuse :)
[07:16:11] <theos> i am powering the board with usb hub :D
[07:16:20] <OndraSter> so when it goes above half amp, it gets cut off...
[07:16:41] <OndraSter> then it goes to vreg
[07:16:51] <OndraSter> to drop it to 3v3
[09:47:09] <abcminiuser_> Hrm
[09:47:22] <abcminiuser_> Well thanks to Reddit today I just learned that prostitution is legal back in Australia
[09:47:34] <abcminiuser_> You'd think they'd put that on roadsigns or something
[09:47:39] <Tom_itx> too hard to control?
[09:48:03] <Tom_itx> that way they can be taxed properly
[09:48:56] <abcminiuser_> Mmm, I guess I just never realise
[09:48:58] <abcminiuser_> *realised
[09:49:19] <abcminiuser_> Reddit guy says that it has to be in a licensed building however, which is probably why it wasn't obvious
[09:59:40] <OndraSter> lol
[10:18:09] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, have you evaluated switching to a U4 programmer design?
[10:19:02] <Tom_itx> no
[10:20:29] <abcminiuser_> Too expensive?
[10:20:54] <Tom_itx> the chips _are_ considerablly more
[10:21:18] <Tom_itx> and i think my now i have a proven design
[10:21:21] <Tom_itx> by*
[10:22:27] <Tom_itx> why?
[10:25:05] <abcminiuser_> Just wondering, since it would give VTARGET feedback
[10:25:10] <abcminiuser_> What about the XMEGAs?
[10:25:54] <Tom_itx> $4.40 compared to $6.21 quan 1 between the U2 and U4
[10:26:06] <Tom_itx> that's half again as much
[10:26:26] <Tom_itx> what's a viable low pin count xmega?
[10:26:34] <Tom_itx> they are 3v parts anyway
[10:26:46] <abcminiuser_> Hrm
[10:26:53] <Tom_itx> skip that
[10:26:54] <abcminiuser_> ATMEGA*U4?
[10:27:05] <Tom_itx> $4.40 compared to $6.21 quan 1 between the U2 and U4
[10:28:25] <Tom_itx> mouser is closer on cost
[10:28:37] <Tom_itx> but non stock
[10:30:23] <Tom_itx> at90usb162 is still stocked at both vendors and is $2.65
[10:30:30] <Tom_itx> that would be my choice
[10:31:46] <Tom_itx> after all the fuss that it was obsolete they have been stocking it over a year or two later
[10:32:07] <Tom_itx> mouser has 12k currently
[10:34:15] <Tom_itx> $2.13 in quantity
[10:34:32] <Tom_itx> 3x less than the U4. not a hard choice
[10:35:12] <abcminiuser> Whoops, I meant ATXMEGA*A4U
[10:35:26] <Tom_itx> still a 3.3v part isn't it?
[10:35:54] <abcminiuser> Yeah
[10:36:06] <abcminiuser> But level shifters :P
[10:37:01] <Tom_itx> it would be more a challenge since the level shifter kinda needs to know which side would be the higher of the two and with that one would never know
[10:37:12] <Tom_itx> higher voltage
[10:39:21] <Tom_itx> in fairness to the U4, mouser has them at $3.99 in quantity
[10:39:32] <Tom_itx> but still half again as much as the current chip
[10:40:30] <Tom_itx> a design can be an easy thing but being a good design and cost effective becomes a challenge.
[10:40:33] <Tom_itx> ask inflex
[10:40:39] <abcminiuser> Mmm, XMEGAs are $2.50ish for the small ones at Digikey
[10:40:48] <abcminiuser> I'm just wondering if it's worth me looking into porting the code
[10:41:13] <Tom_itx> that's up to you on the code side. i don't see it on the hardware side
[10:41:28] <abcminiuser> Mmm, good point
[10:41:31] <Tom_itx> they are good chips no doubt
[10:41:37] <abcminiuser> I've got WAY too many things to focus on anyway
[10:41:45] <Tom_itx> but also are not required for this app
[10:42:01] <Tom_itx> i know the adc thing has bugged you from the get go
[10:43:00] <abcminiuser> Whoopsadaisy, I forgot to change the timeout reset code in the latest firmware :P
[10:43:13] <abcminiuser> ^ Yeah, but that's just my inner coder being cranky ;)
[10:43:36] <abcminiuser> Poor man's ADC with the comparator, resistor and a cap?
[10:45:35] <Tom_itx> more parts = more cost and the original isn't that much more as it is.
[10:45:53] <Tom_itx> although does it do tpi yet?
[10:47:55] <abcminiuser> Yes IIRC, but haven't tried it
[10:47:57] <abcminiuser> Lemme check
[10:48:50] <abcminiuser> Yup
[10:49:31] <abcminiuser> For VTARGET however, can you route that through the level translator to the chip?
[10:49:41] <abcminiuser> Then we can use the comparator to detect if it's present or not
[10:51:03] <Tom_itx> vtarget is adc is it not?
[10:51:20] <abcminiuser> It's an analogue signal, yes
[10:51:37] <abcminiuser> But the comparator can give you a "above Vx" digital signal from that
[10:52:02] <Tom_itx> what sort of comparator?
[10:52:02] <abcminiuser> So we can connect the comparator to the bandgap internally, then use it to say "yes, VTARGET is above 1V"
[10:52:09] <abcminiuser> It's inside the AVR
[10:52:13] <Tom_itx> it would have to be really small and really cheap
[10:52:14] <Tom_itx> oh
[10:52:20] <abcminiuser> So yes ;)
[10:52:25] <Tom_itx> does the at90usb162 have one as well?
[10:52:38] <abcminiuser> Yup
[10:52:45] <abcminiuser> Chapter 22 of latest datasheet
[10:53:03] <Tom_itx> so run a line to the target V pin to detect it
[10:53:14] <Tom_itx> it's either gonna be 5 or 3.3v in all reality
[10:53:29] <abcminiuser> Balls
[10:53:40] <abcminiuser> It would have to be AIN1, which is RxD
[10:53:57] <Tom_itx> maybe we've been down this road and forgot
[10:54:08] <Tom_itx> i know i have
[10:54:37] <abcminiuser> We just need some creativity
[10:55:24] <Tom_itx> i've been working on this lately:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/frame1.jpg
[10:55:31] <Tom_itx> new psu and drivers for my mill
[10:55:46] <abcminiuser> The U2 parts would be much better
[10:55:51] <abcminiuser> They have a billion comparator inputs
[10:55:51] <specing> WOW Tom_itx
[10:55:54] <Tom_itx> probably so
[10:56:05] <specing> Thats enaught power to power a ROFLcopter !!!
[10:56:23] <Tom_itx> you can never have enough power
[10:56:37] <abcminiuser> 1.21 Gigawatts?
[10:58:00] <Tom_itx> naw just 50v 18A
[10:58:26] <Tom_itx> with a centertap at 25v to go to a smps for 5v supply to the electronics
[11:00:09] <Tom_itx> i got a box off ebay to house it all, should be here tomorrow
[11:01:14] <Tom_itx> that and the electronics:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant.jpg
[13:35:27] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, I'm adding in unique(ish) serial numbers to the programmers
[13:42:06] <RikusW> how ?
[13:42:14] <RikusW> rng ?
[13:45:35] <specing> RikusW: AFAIK newer USB avrs come with serial fuses
[13:47:07] <RikusW> ah yes, the usb avrs does have a serial number
[13:47:14] <abcminiuser> Well that was a failed experiment
[13:47:18] <Tom_itx> why?
[13:47:23] <abcminiuser> On a related note: Jungo is staffed by monkeys
[13:47:23] <Tom_itx> on both counts
[13:47:34] <Tom_itx> the name indicates that
[13:47:39] <abcminiuser> I now have a clone programmer that will bluescreen the host when AS6 is started
[13:47:48] <specing> WTF LOL?
[13:48:05] <specing> Ah windows
[13:48:19] <Landon> you just need to switch the label from programmer to bsod device and charge extra
[13:48:33] <abcminiuser> And plug it into a co-worker's PC...
[13:48:42] <Landon> on the internal usb headers...
[13:48:48] <Tom_itx> one of mine or another one?
[13:49:20] <RikusW> abcminiuser: thats probably due to you changing the ep direction..
[13:49:39] <abcminiuser> RikusW, nope, unrelated, I was apparently loading in the serial number wrong
[13:51:00] <RikusW> so it seems even the experts get bitten by usb drivers ;)
[13:52:19] <abcminiuser> *bad* USB drivers :S
[13:53:43] <RikusW> how did you do it differently than the constant serial number ?
[13:54:01] <RikusW> or does the driver do a range check ?
[13:54:34] <abcminiuser> Very similar, but shorter serial since I had to use the special 00002 prefix
[13:56:53] <Tom_itx> why the need for the sn change?
[13:58:08] <RikusW> he wanted to use part of the m32u2 serial
[13:58:48] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, for multiple programmers at the same time
[13:59:35] <Tom_itx> studio or avrdude doesn't supporg gang programming does it?
[13:59:42] <Tom_itx> support*
[14:00:09] <abcminiuser> Daisy chain for JTAG only
[14:00:11] <RikusW> does AS5/6 support selecting between programmers ?
[14:02:42] <RikusW> I know the AS4 commandline tools allow selection by serial number, but aren't sure about the gui
[14:02:46] <abcminiuser> Yup
[14:03:55] <RikusW> my gui does allow selection between detected serial numbers, thanks to your clone that I put on 2 of my boards with slightly different serials
[14:26:38] <OndraSter> hey
[14:26:42] <OndraSter> I stand before dilemma
[14:26:48] <OndraSter> I need a microwave with a grill so I can make reflow oven from it
[14:26:54] <OndraSter> there is microwave possibly with grill in the dumpster
[14:27:05] <OndraSter> the other side of this dilemma is... that it is in the dumpster
[14:27:07] <OndraSter> like 100m from the house
[14:27:09] <OndraSter> :/
[14:27:21] <OndraSter> even if it didn't have grill, I'd still grab the MOT and all from it :D
[14:27:35] <Tom_itx> microwave!?
[14:27:40] <Tom_itx> you want a toaster oven
[14:28:00] <Tom_itx> so go grab it if you want it
[14:28:07] <Tom_itx> just don't fall in
[14:28:35] <Tom_itx> it's an acceptable practice on irc.
[14:28:51] <Tom_itx> re'purpose good stuff
[14:28:55] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:29:07] <Tom_itx> my whole psu is re'purposed
[14:29:38] <OndraSter> I haven't met thing like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Toaster_Oven_2.JPG
[14:29:39] <OndraSter> in here
[14:30:54] <OndraSter> what does it differ from microwave's grill?
[14:32:00] <RikusW> I think microwaves aren't supposed to get that hot inside...
[14:32:20] <OndraSter> well ours goes to 200C just fine, above I'd say with modding too
[14:32:57] <Tom_itx> it's just been buggin me :D
[14:33:27] <Tom_itx> yeah the paint inside might not like solder melting temps
[14:34:05] <Tom_itx> there are still good parts in them
[14:34:11] <Tom_itx> just don't touch the capacitor
[14:34:18] <OndraSter> .. before discharging it
[14:34:41] <Tom_itx> and not with a screwdriver
[14:35:08] <Corwin|away> whats wrong with touching capacitors?
[14:35:15] <OndraSter> I use usually two screwdrivers and cross them... can't fit one in both holes
[14:35:24] <Tom_itx> try it once and find out
[14:35:27] <OndraSter> Corwin, that they can be charged into kV
[14:35:47] <Corwin> i tried it ... and my heart was jumping with joy :)
[14:36:01] <OndraSter> hmm convection heating in microwave: 100 -> ... 240 -> 250 -> ...
[14:36:05] <OndraSter> I think it should be just fine :D
[14:36:45] <OndraSter> Corwin, have you seen "toaster ovens" here in CZE? something like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Toaster_Oven_2.JPG
[14:37:01] <Corwin> yes
[14:37:05] <Tom_itx> check at walmart
[14:37:12] <Corwin> tesco here
[14:37:14] <Corwin> no wallmart
[14:37:16] <Tom_itx> surely there's a cze walmart :)
[14:37:22] <Tom_itx> they're everywhere
[14:37:26] <Corwin> not in CZ
[14:37:52] <OndraSter> wallmart = tesco :)
[14:37:59] <OndraSter> Corwin, don't you happen to know the price range for those?
[14:38:18] <Tom_itx> $20-35 or so
[14:38:21] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:38:23] <OndraSter> that's not that bad
[14:38:26] <Tom_itx> get one with 4 elements
[14:38:31] <OndraSter> 2 top 2 bottom?
[14:38:34] <Tom_itx> more even heating
[14:38:35] <Tom_itx> yes
[14:38:48] <Tom_itx> worth it
[14:39:09] <Corwin> OndraSter about 2k for branded one... about 800 for unbranded
[14:39:16] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:39:20] <OndraSter> I don't need brand :)
[14:39:21] <Tom_itx> 2k what?
[14:39:33] <Corwin> 2k like 2000 czk
[14:39:44] <OndraSter> = about $100
[14:39:49] <Tom_itx> oh
[14:39:54] <Tom_itx> that's a bit high
[14:39:55] <OndraSter> 800 czk = about $40
[14:40:00] <Tom_itx> but maybe not for your area
[14:40:08] <Corwin> CZ is expensive country
[14:40:15] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:40:25] <OndraSter> damn why doesn't Tesco have some kind of eshop? :(
[14:40:36] <Landon> yargh, anything special I need to do to keep a bitwise operation uint8_t?
[14:41:02] <Landon> port.port ^= (uint8_t)((uint8_t)1<<(uint8_t)pin);
[14:41:03] <Landon> error: invalid operands to binary ^ (have ‘volatile uint8_t *’ and ‘int’)
[14:41:27] <Corwin> hmm.... USPS tracking not working on sundays :)
[14:41:45] <OndraSter> heh
[14:41:54] <RikusW> Landon: on what avr is that ?
[14:41:58] <Landon> t2313
[14:42:58] <RikusW> seems you can toggle the pins on t2313 by writing a 1 to the PIN register
[14:43:03] <Corwin> i dont thins USPS tracking would be useful for me anyway :)
[14:43:07] <Corwin> *think
[14:43:11] <RikusW> eg: PINA |= (1<<5);
[14:43:25] <Landon> right :P but I've also got this problem with my set and clear operations
[14:43:55] <RikusW> PORTA |= (1<<5)
[14:44:07] <RikusW> and PORTA &= ~(1<<5)
[14:44:27] <Landon> mmhmm, but it won't compile (see above error)
[14:44:45] <RikusW> what is the port.port you are using ?
[14:44:59] <Landon> no matter how many typecasts I throw in there (
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/FAQ.html#faq_intpromote )
[14:45:42] <Corwin> Tom_itx, just curious.... will USPS provide more info about package than says that it left wichita 3 days ago ?
[14:46:02] <RikusW> Landon: you're putting a pointer into the mix.....
[14:46:09] <Landon> it's the volatile uint8_t *, and doh
[14:46:10] <Tom_itx> Corwin where are you?
[14:46:15] <Tom_itx> i doubt it outside the us
[14:46:15] <Corwin> czech republic
[14:46:17] <Tom_itx> no
[14:46:22] <Corwin> heh
[14:46:30] <Landon> my eyes were mostly fixed on trying to get that int to uint8_t
[14:46:31] <Tom_itx> once it leaves here it won't
[14:46:42] <Corwin> yea, i noticed they dont work with speedpost :(
[14:47:27] <Tom_itx> it's why i ask for replies so i can guestimate shipping time
[14:47:41] <Corwin> i will tell you when it arrives
[14:49:10] <Tom_itx> what did you get?
[14:49:54] <Corwin> just "USB Breakout Experimenter"
[14:50:01] <Tom_itx> ok
[14:50:28] <Corwin> was quite surprised with same-day shipment :)
[14:51:33] <Tom_itx> one took 9 days one took 14
[14:53:09] <Corwin> with my "luck" it will be helt at customs, and take about 20 or more days :)
[14:56:19] <OndraSter> then another 14 days before paper with customs declaration comes
[14:56:31] <Corwin> its less than 22europ
[14:56:34] <Corwin> no papers
[14:56:38] <OndraSter> 1 month before they process your immediate answer
[14:56:48] <Tom_itx> intentional
[14:56:54] <OndraSter> so? I had thing worth 5 euro come
[14:56:57] <OndraSter> and stop :(
[14:57:03] <Tom_itx> fly low and un noticed
[14:58:10] <Corwin> i fly "low".... to avoid 22euro limit, i made 7 separate orders from hongkong.... first got thru fast... all others got held,opened, checked and delayed for few days :)
[14:59:04] <OndraSter> about opening..
[14:59:12] <OndraSter> about 2 years ago when I was ordering phone for my friend
[14:59:15] <OndraSter> they OPENED the package
[14:59:26] <OndraSter> since then I saw only x-rays of the packages
[15:00:45] <Corwin> they open it if it looks suspicious... like xrays shows device like phone... and declaration says $10 item
[15:01:23] <OndraSter> hmm
[15:01:27] <OndraSter> that might be that
[15:01:36] <OndraSter> is there any way how to damage xray machine?
[15:02:00] <RikusW> xray activated bomb ? :-D
[15:02:16] <OndraSter> :D
[15:02:21] <specing> geiger trigger
[15:03:33] <specing> hehe, I remember once 4 of us went through boarding checks with 6 laptops ;)
[15:09:47] <OndraSter> when I was a child I used to grab pritners and what not from around the dumpsters all the time, bring it home, take it apart and recycle plastic etc
[15:09:51] <OndraSter> but now it feels ... weird :D
[15:09:57] <OndraSter> printers*
[15:21:37] <OndraSter> hmm what can one use from microwave... MOT + capacitor + diode, front panel probably (at least the small transformer), input PFC and what not board, strong magnets from magnetron...
[15:21:49] <OndraSter> yeah, it is worth it :D
[15:22:21] * RikusW built a fence energizer using a MOT + scr + 20uF 1000V pulse grade cap
[15:22:36] * mrfrenzy does not climb RikusW's fences
[15:22:37] <RikusW> giving a 5 Joule pulse
[15:23:00] <RikusW> probably gives a 6kV pulse
[15:23:58] <OndraSter> I even found full "mains voltage" schematics in one microwave
[15:24:14] <RikusW> mrfrenzy: the soil is very dry over here now, so even with the official Gallagher energizer at 5J 7kV 170uS pulse you don't feel to much unless you're earthed well....
[15:24:19] <OndraSter> the front panel was just as one symbol with "door lock" and "blabla relay"s
[15:24:26] <OndraSter> but the rest of it was there :)
[15:24:48] <OndraSter> my friend wants to build small tesla coil
[15:25:16] <RikusW> just be carefull :-P
[15:26:20] <OndraSter> why me? :)
[15:26:22] <OndraSter> I am always!
[15:26:30] <OndraSter> mains do almost nothing
[15:27:04] <RikusW> afaik 8kV neon transformers is usually used for the first stepup
[15:27:44] <RikusW> and MOT usually do x10 for 220Vac -> 2kV
[15:30:08] <jacekowski> i've used mains voltage for mine
[15:30:16] <jacekowski> single stage
[15:32:51] <OndraSter> yeah
[15:32:54] <OndraSter> MOTs are 2kV or so
[16:08:48] <specing> (viral repost)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA&feature=player_embedded
[16:57:14] <iSaleK> Hey folks, little help. Could you help me on this one. How can I #define array[] in header?
[16:57:36] <iSaleK> I try to do it like this #define varname[] = {0x00, 0xff, 0xCF};
[16:58:16] <Tom_itx> defines become constants
[16:59:16] <iSaleK> I know, how can i define const array?
[17:00:48] <specing> #define sth { 0x23, 0x23, 42 }
[17:01:24] <specing> or const char array[] = { ... };
[17:13:09] <iSaleK> And can I still call it like PORTB = sth[0];
[17:13:10] <iSaleK> ?
[17:13:28] <specing> only #2
[17:13:43] <OndraSter> onlyfor the const char array[] = { .. }
[17:13:57] <iSaleK> I see, but the compiler will see it like const and will not require extra memory for it?
[17:14:18] <specing> It *may* optimize it away
[17:14:29] <specing> But look at the assembly to be sure
[17:14:33] <iSaleK> Ok, thank you :)
[17:15:01] <iSaleK> I'm predefining values for my LCD and Seven Segmend display so I don't have to calculate it every time I need it
[17:15:06] <specing> if the array is const and the element number is also const... optimize!
[17:15:24] <OndraSter> use directly values :)
[17:15:25] <iSaleK> but I don't want to flood all of my memory space with those variables so I tought I can use constants or #define in header
[17:15:57] <OndraSter> since it is single bytes, what does it matter?
[17:16:02] <OndraSter> with single byte access
[17:16:05] <OndraSter> directly
[17:19:10] <iSaleK> Ok, I will optimize it more. Thank you for your help :)
[17:19:25] <specing> LOOK AT THE ASM!!!!
[18:17:03] <iSaleK> Is there a tutorial for Poor man's ADC? Possiblly on ATTiny2313
[19:37:49] <iSaleK> Hey folks, it's me again...
[19:38:21] <iSaleK> How can I split 8-bit variable into higher 5-bits and lower 3-bits?
[19:39:44] <cehteh> how do you want to use the parts?
[19:40:20] <cehteh> masking what you need with & .. and then maybe shifting (which you want to avoid if possible)
[19:49:13] <iSaleK> Well I'm making thermometar using poorman's adc, so my pins 0, 1, 2 on PINB are configured as output
[19:49:42] <iSaleK> I need to split value for seven segment display into 5 MSB and 3 LSB from variable
[19:50:03] <iSaleK> then PORTB = msb5, PORTD=lsb3;
[19:50:42] <iSaleK> And I'm not sure can I now use for example, PORTB=0xFF, if some ports are configured as input, does it still work?
[19:50:55] <iSaleK> (I mean will output ports go high and input ports will be ignored)
[19:53:03] <cehteh> no way to hook that to a single port?
[19:53:36] <cehteh> (hey i am using a tiny13 .. 1k ram every instruction counts :))
[19:54:16] <iSaleK> I'm using Attiny2313, it has ADC on PORTB and PORTD has only 7 outputs :)
[19:54:33] <iSaleK> So is there any way I can split that variable and forward it to desired ports?
[19:54:54] <iSaleK> Also, are input ports ignored during the PORTB = 0xFF; ?
[19:54:56] <cehteh> either way you #define a mask #define low3bits 0b111 ... then you mask it lowbits = variable & low3bits;
[19:55:52] <cehteh> highbits=variable & ~low3bits (take care for casting to uint8_t) .. and possibly have to shift highbits 3 places to the left
[19:55:57] <cehteh> err right :)
[19:56:24] <cehteh> there are possibly more elegant/efficient ways if you tune it a bit to your application
[19:57:13] <cehteh> i am new to µC/AVR too :) just knowing C well enough
[20:00:19] <cehteh> uh the tiny2313 has no ADC? :)
[20:02:52] <cehteh> why dont you use a µC with a proper ADC instead? :)
[20:18:21] <iSaleK> tiny2313 has analog comparator, I want to make ADC using it :)
[20:18:55] <iSaleK> Thank you for your advice, I will try by using the mask
[23:19:00] <theos> hey
[23:19:14] <theos> tobbor !!
