#avr | Logs for 2012-06-01

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[01:17:13] <specing> Fleck: Have you built that dimmer? If so, how much power does it consume?
[01:20:46] <Fleck> specing yes I have, you mean how much from arduino side?
[01:20:57] <Fleck> avr
[01:21:06] <Fleck> ar 220V ?
[01:21:10] <Fleck> *or
[01:21:22] <specing> No, just that circuit
[01:21:31] <specing> without arduino and without 220
[01:21:52] <Fleck> yeah, that what i meant
[01:22:09] <Fleck> ill check that out specing :) and let you know
[02:06:16] <drgreenthumb> I can't drive no. LCD action. but I try. and I try. oh I try. I can't drive no! no no no!
[02:06:52] <drgreenthumb> this is hard :P
[02:07:25] <drgreenthumb> all I seem to be able to make is a pretty white backlight. I had hoped for more.
[02:07:56] <drgreenthumb> I wonder if it's conducting flux or something equally infuriating.
[02:08:14] <drgreenthumb> I need a logic analyzer.
[02:08:18] <drgreenthumb> time to make one.
[02:13:11] <drgreenthumb> aaaand now I've lost my toothbrush
[02:13:24] <drgreenthumb> not the teeth one, the solder flux cleaning one :P
[02:32:42] <iR0b0t1> the fuck is wrong with my programming setup
[02:33:06] <iR0b0t1> http://yetanotherhackersblog.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/programming-an-attiny85-with-the-avrisp-mkii/
[02:33:09] <iR0b0t1> I hook it up as described
[02:33:12] <iR0b0t1> I've tried both ways
[02:33:16] <iR0b0t1> still won't program it
[02:34:54] <iR0b0t1> one way, if I hook an LED up to reset, it blinks off
[02:34:56] <iR0b0t1> but you know
[02:35:05] <iR0b0t1> it still doesn't work
[02:58:57] <iR0b0t1> Does anyone have _any_ idea?
[02:59:06] <iR0b0t1> Both lights are green on the programmer.
[02:59:12] <iR0b0t1> So it's not like I plugged it in wrong.
[04:36:37] <drgreenthumb> aarg still can't make this thing work and I've been doing it for over twelve hours. guess it's time for a break :/
[04:38:49] <drgreenthumb> the sample program is so simple, and the ports and directions seem okay when I dump the values out for debugging. maybe it's just damaged :(
[06:11:08] <drgreenthumb> heh couldn't help myself. another hour and a half. and...
[06:11:15] <drgreenthumb> YAY OMG YAY YAY YAY
[06:14:35] <drgreenthumb> http://imgur.com/B7sVa
[06:14:38] <drgreenthumb> :D
[06:22:47] <drgreenthumb> too late to start it now but tomorrow I'll see if I can get an image loaded from the SD card :) night all.
[06:33:29] <desaster> drgreenthumb: nice
[06:39:13] <CapnKernel> drgreenthumb: sweet
[06:47:00] <drgreenthumb> thanks CapnKernel, desaster! heh and my last thing for the night, made it floodfill 8 times faster by setting lfuse to e4 :P now g'night for real :)
[06:47:18] <CapnKernel> night!
[07:13:54] <specing> iR0b0t1: t45 works for me with a ispmkii clone just right
[08:20:41] <specing> Fleck: Tell me if it is consumption = t_on / (t_off+t_on) * holding_current?
[08:21:27] <OndraSter> that is the average value of current
[08:21:32] <OndraSter> consumption is *voltage :)
[08:22:27] <specing> Yes but voltage is the same U your micro runs at ;)
[08:22:35] <specing> Unless optocoupling...
[08:24:05] <OndraSter> well you named it consumption :P
[08:24:07] <OndraSter> not current :P
[08:31:45] <specing> whateva
[08:33:11] <specing> consumption = t_on / (t_off + t_on) * I_hold * U :) Here you go
[09:53:30] <DrLuke> wow, I didn't notice the JTAG interface was still enabled on my mega16, and I've lost 3 hours to it
[09:53:35] <DrLuke> and some hair
[09:55:16] <Tom_itx> you will look for that first next time
[09:55:31] <DrLuke> Indeed
[10:05:47] <fenrig> Hi I have some question's regarding programming a blank avr (atmega 1284p)
[10:06:10] <fenrig> I'm a noob at this so dumb questions will be asked
[10:06:48] <fenrig> Now I've got this programmer from seeedstudio: the uartsbee V4 (used it for programming seeeduino stalker)
[10:08:29] <fenrig> it contains a ft232r chip, I've got the whole mcu connected to gnd, source, ... but I did not connect xtal (cause I don't have the 22pF caps)
[10:09:02] <fenrig> First of all is it possible to program the mcu without the xtal ?
[10:10:31] <Tom_itx> yes
[10:10:44] <Tom_itx> it has an internal oscillator set as clock source by default
[10:11:00] <Tom_itx> you modify the fuses to use the external crystal
[10:11:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[10:11:38] <Tom_itx> find your chip there and use that as a guide
[10:12:08] <fenrig> okay second of all, because I'm using linux do I still have to recompile avrdude so it can use the ft232r chip to program the avr mcu?
[10:12:46] <Tom_itx> no you read it's pdf and find out the settings for the programmer
[10:15:48] <fenrig> Don't I need software on my computer to control the ft232r chip to program the mcu?
[10:16:05] <Tom_itx> avrdude
[10:17:06] <fenrig> uhm okay but avrdude has hundred of options and I don't know how to use them :o that's why I'm here :o
[10:18:09] <Tom_itx> read?
[10:18:19] <Tom_itx> it would be good to go thru it once
[10:18:21] <Tom_itx> then ask
[10:19:19] <fenrig> well the first question: do I need to recompile avrdude to support programming with the ft232r
[10:19:22] <fenrig> http://doswa.com/2010/08/24/avrdude-5-10-with-ftdi-bitbang.html
[10:20:12] <fenrig> this howto suggest recompiling, but it's 2 years old, so I was wondering if all those functionalities aren't already integrated into avrdude
[10:20:23] <Tom_itx> get ver 5.11
[10:20:28] <Tom_itx> for starters
[10:20:50] <fenrig> okay I've got that one :)
[10:21:35] <Tom_itx> then you may need to edit the avrdude.conf file
[10:21:40] <Tom_itx> per the link you gave
[10:21:44] <Tom_itx> you may not. i dunno
[10:22:36] <Tom_itx> it may be in there by now
[10:23:13] <fenrig> let's hope so, but google doesn't really help in finding out (no usefull results, only bug listings)
[10:23:35] <Tom_itx> a txt editor will tell you for sure
[10:25:22] <Tom_itx> now, had you gotten my programmer you'd be up and running by now :)
[10:25:57] <Tom_itx> btw, did you read your own post?
[10:26:00] <Tom_itx> sudo avrdude -c ftdi -p m168 -P ft0 -U hfuse:r:-:h -B 1
[10:26:25] <Tom_itx> that should read the high fuse
[10:29:21] <fenrig> yeah this is my first time programming a blank mcu, and I don't have any clue of what I'm doing. I hate that feeling xD.
[10:29:59] <fenrig> especially because i'm using "exotic" hw, an ft232r and a atmega1284p :S
[10:32:46] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[10:32:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/using_avrdude_index.php
[10:43:05] <fenrig> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php do i use the same pin layout for programming as used here?
[10:44:12] <Tom_itx> probably
[10:44:25] <Tom_itx> some chips use PDI PDO for programming would be the only catch
[10:44:33] <Tom_itx> instead of SPI miso mosi
[10:45:51] <fenrig> In the datasheet of the atmega1284p the miso is on pb6 (pin 7) don't I need to use that miso?
[10:46:33] <Tom_itx> probably so
[10:47:00] <Tom_itx> like i said, some use PDO PDI which is part of the uart instead of the SPI port
[10:47:07] <Tom_itx> not sure about that chip
[10:47:21] <Tom_itx> the mega128 is one of those
[10:47:25] <fenrig> isn't there a way to found out?
[10:47:32] <fenrig> *find out (sorry)
[10:47:34] <Tom_itx> try it?
[10:47:43] <Tom_itx> it should be in the pdf
[10:48:15] <Tom_itx> not many are that way, most use the SPI port
[10:49:57] <fenrig> the datasheet says spi programming is supported (wich i already knew)
[10:50:11] <Tom_itx> then my wiring should be ok
[10:50:13] <fenrig> but doesn't add any relevant information about the pins when programming the mcu
[10:50:19] <Tom_itx> figure out what pins they are on your chip
[10:51:10] <Tom_itx> mosi, miso, sck, reset, power, gnd are the ones you look for
[10:51:41] <Tom_itx> make sure ALL the vcc and GND pins are connected
[10:51:43] <Tom_itx> not just one
[10:52:02] <fenrig> already did
[10:52:07] <fenrig> vcc and avcc
[10:52:13] <fenrig> and gnd and gnd (2 pins)
[10:52:32] <Tom_itx> breadboard?
[10:52:52] <fenrig> yes on a breadboard with a zif header
[10:54:59] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, wasn't PDI/PDO on those oooold chips?
[10:55:04] <OndraSter> aka mega128
[10:55:08] <OndraSter> they had also PEN pin
[10:55:13] <Tom_itx> it was one yes
[10:55:16] <Tom_itx> PEN wasn't used
[10:55:21] <OndraSter> it was optional :)
[10:56:22] <OndraSter> it took me a while to realize what PDI/PDO do you mean, I thought about xmegas and theirs PD Interface misto PD Input/Output :D
[10:56:27] <Tom_itx> fenrig, you need one of my little breadboard adapters: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/ACC1_desc.jpg
[10:56:29] <Tom_itx> :)
[10:56:56] <Tom_itx> OndraSter yes, atmel loves to confuse
[10:56:59] <fenrig> got an ebay url or something xD?
[10:57:17] <Tom_itx> it's not on my forsale page now
[10:57:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php
[10:58:17] <OndraSter> hmm I wish I had public IP address :(
[10:58:26] <OndraSter> and could run some httpd
[10:58:33] <Tom_itx> use dyndns
[10:58:53] <OndraSter> it won't work unless you have public IP
[10:59:06] <Tom_itx> mine is dynamic
[10:59:15] <OndraSter> dynamic doesn't relate to public
[10:59:22] <OndraSter> you'd need some VPS or server and create some kind of VPN :)
[10:59:27] <OndraSter> and via iptables forward the traffic
[10:59:29] <OndraSter> through the VPN
[10:59:47] <Tom_itx> mine is just an old pc sitting on the shelf
[10:59:58] <OndraSter> I have got here "old" pc sitting in the corner as well
[11:00:20] <Tom_itx> no kbd or monitor
[11:00:22] <OndraSter> the VPS I wanted to try it out on was "free" as a sample (300MHz CPU, 128 or 256MB RAM etc), but no tun/tap adapters available
[11:00:24] <OndraSter> same here
[11:00:29] <OndraSter> only power + ethernet
[11:00:35] <OndraSter> and remote desktop for management :P
[11:00:36] <fenrig> Tom_itx: what one do I need to order xD?
[11:00:52] <Tom_itx> fenrig what are you looking for?
[11:01:09] <fenrig> your breadbord adapter XD
[11:01:12] <Tom_itx> oh
[11:01:34] <Tom_itx> i sometimes toss one in with a programmer nowdays. i took them off the page separately
[11:01:49] <Tom_itx> i had a kit at one point but it got too confusing to keep track of
[11:03:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_full_kit_desc.jpg
[11:03:34] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, I used to have my own server actually in professional server housing... but I took it down, it was not worth it anymore (it was running for 1 whole year)... I'd like it now again, no need to buy hosting for every website you need etc :)
[11:04:18] <specing> OndraSter: You could host it on an ARM9...
[11:04:35] <OndraSter> heh
[11:04:49] <specing> Really
[11:04:53] <OndraSter> I'd rather grab some older dual/quad with 4GB RAM for like $200
[11:05:07] <specing> I have Nginx on my AT91SAM9260 board (200MHz)
[11:05:28] <OndraSter> $63/month for 100Mbps, 150W power supply (higher power = extra money)
[11:05:41] <specing> Now that is expensive
[11:05:50] <Tom_itx> i just like to keep it simple
[11:05:51] <OndraSter> well you host your own server
[11:06:01] <Tom_itx> i get crap about my link all the time
[11:06:02] <OndraSter> it is reasonable
[11:06:03] <fenrig> Tom_itx: so just buy the USBTiny Mkii Programmer?
[11:06:10] <specing> ARM9 is like 2W max
[11:06:11] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, again, I don't have public IP :P
[11:06:19] <OndraSter> specing, so? doesn't bother me
[11:06:32] <specing> OndraSter: You have a private IP?
[11:06:35] <specing> How come?
[11:06:37] <Tom_itx> fenrig, if you want one yes mention your nick or something and i'll send you the breadboard adapter along with it
[11:06:44] <OndraSter> because I share my IP with another 650 people or so
[11:07:07] <specing> Oh right, you are the one whose internet conn depends on two gay admins?
[11:07:11] <Tom_itx> fenrig, if you don't mention this "AD" it won't come with it :)
[11:07:20] <OndraSter> specing, yes :)
[11:07:30] <Tom_itx> haha
[11:07:31] <Tom_itx> !
[11:07:35] <specing> :)
[11:07:46] <fenrig> Tom_itx: okay :D will do XD i'll mention "fenrig AD"
[11:07:59] <Tom_itx> put that in the Paypal comment
[11:08:12] <Tom_itx> what country are you in?
[11:08:16] <fenrig> is it easy to use (with arduino ide, ...) and is it fast?
[11:08:21] <Tom_itx> yup
[11:08:22] <specing> OndraSter: Ask them, they surely have a server available
[11:08:29] <OndraSter> x336 and x335 from IBMs are now being sold fairly cheaply
[11:08:32] <OndraSter> specing, the admins?
[11:08:32] <fenrig> Belgium
[11:08:35] <specing> OndraSter: Yeah
[11:08:36] <Tom_itx> np
[11:08:53] <Tom_itx> it will take some time to get there but it will
[11:09:03] <OndraSter> specing, one of the reasons they do not want to offer public IP is that somebody would start hosting files/websites and take all the traffic :P
[11:09:43] <specing> OndraSter: Wearing a pink T-shirt can get you ahead of other people
[11:09:44] <fenrig> how long will it take?
[11:09:52] <OndraSter> specing, LOL
[11:09:58] <Tom_itx> lemme see if i have another one i shipped there...
[11:10:15] <Tom_itx> i'd guess 10-20 days
[11:10:56] <Tom_itx> one took 7 days
[11:11:32] <Tom_itx> nobody else replied when they got theirs so that's the only one i can compare to
[11:12:25] <fenrig> Tom_itx: i forgot the mention the AD XD damn
[11:12:26] <Tom_itx> recogne?
[11:12:35] <Tom_itx> is that a town?
[11:13:00] <fenrig> uhm not that I know :o
[11:13:07] <Tom_itx> maybe a street
[11:13:20] <fenrig> in belgium?
[11:13:32] <Tom_itx> yes
[11:13:50] <Tom_itx> ok, you're not in canada so i know which one to add the adapter to :)
[11:13:52] <Tom_itx> got it...
[11:14:00] <fenrig> it's a town :p
[11:14:05] <Tom_itx> ok
[11:14:14] <Tom_itx> that was the 7 day comparison on shipping
[11:14:19] <Tom_itx> for your infor
[11:14:23] <fenrig> yes well my name is Matthias XD so that's another way of knowing
[11:14:29] <Tom_itx> yup, got it
[11:14:43] <Tom_itx> it will go to day
[11:14:50] <Tom_itx> you will get an email later
[11:14:52] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, how do you get around RoHS when you sell the programmer? The paste you are using (if it is still the DX one) is not RoHS... or doesn't the USA care?
[11:15:10] <Tom_itx> there are no rohs stickers on them
[11:15:16] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:15:21] <Tom_itx> and i didn't ask
[11:15:23] <OndraSter> I thought you can't import stuff that is not RoHS into EU
[11:16:06] <fenrig> Tom_itx: Do i need a ISP cable (or flat cable)
[11:16:16] <fenrig> or is it included?
[11:16:18] <Tom_itx> just the usb
[11:16:29] <Tom_itx> it comes with the 6 pin isp cable
[11:17:27] <fenrig> oh okay nice :D if I like this you're programmer then I'll suggest it too other people too (i'm first year electronics ict student)
[11:17:30] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_adapter_kit_desc.jpg
[11:17:43] <Tom_itx> just like that without the 6 to 10 adapter
[11:17:48] <Tom_itx> you don't need it
[11:18:03] <fenrig> okay ^^
[11:18:19] <Tom_itx> rue_mohr is the only one in the world that still uses 10 pin
[11:18:26] <OndraSter> I do too
[11:18:29] <OndraSter> :P
[11:18:32] <Tom_itx> groupie
[11:19:53] <OndraSter> so I am starting to be slowly happy with my breakout board
[11:19:53] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/1Zkdh
[11:20:12] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/1ZkdI
[11:21:33] <OndraSter> I have realized that reset button has got a good reason
[11:22:00] <OndraSter> since you can read RESET flags in some register, you can eg stay longer in bootloader if you find "external reset" flag
[11:25:51] <OndraSter> do _something_ like Arduino but optimalized for xmegas and that integrates into AVR Studio
[11:25:52] <OndraSter> would be cool
[11:44:06] <DrLuke> http://i45.tinypic.com/fm2zyr.png
[11:44:15] <DrLuke> I love making PCBs
[11:44:30] <DrLuke> Can't wait to have another one made
[11:45:00] <specing> making is not ordering to be made
[11:45:38] <tmpvar> agreed
[11:45:43] <specing> Also I see this is your first PCB since you are doing extended pins
[11:46:03] <DrLuke> huh?
[11:46:08] <Tom_itx> fenrig, you've got email
[11:46:16] <karlp> what's extended pins?
[11:46:19] <karlp> the wide pads?
[11:46:30] <specing> yes
[11:46:42] <DrLuke> what's so bad about them
[11:47:06] <specing> They are made with people who are not sure about their soldering skills (have not soldered PCBs before)
[11:47:14] <specing> s/with/by/
[11:47:20] <OndraSter> funny thing - one of the *pin libraries in Eagle has those
[11:47:33] <DrLuke> exactly
[11:47:34] <OndraSter> at least at those X by Y pins
[11:47:37] <Tom_itx> make your own then you've earned the right to have them made
[11:47:38] <DrLuke> that's why I used them
[11:47:40] <specing> OndraSter: Im sure the library name is "Beginner" :)
[11:47:43] <OndraSter> nope
[11:47:45] <OndraSter> con-lsta I think
[11:47:50] <DrLuke> pinhead
[11:47:54] <OndraSter> con-lstb
[11:48:02] <Tom_itx> what are you looking for?
[11:48:04] <OndraSter> MA08-1 for example
[11:48:17] * specing does not use eagle
[11:48:20] <karlp> Tom_itx: bullshit, why on earth should I have to make my own pcbs first?
[11:48:29] <Tom_itx> experience
[11:48:34] <karlp> bull. shit.
[11:48:40] <Tom_itx> it's good for the soul
[11:48:44] <DrLuke> I've made one, but failed
[11:48:46] <karlp> that's a better argument :)
[11:48:50] <DrLuke> because I didn't have a laser printer
[11:49:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[11:49:22] <Tom_itx> and it's not as hard as ppl make it out to be
[11:49:24] <OndraSter> Pinhead has got also those huge solder pads
[11:49:29] <karlp> noone said it was hard,
[11:49:33] <DrLuke> I've also tried photoetching
[11:49:34] <karlp> but why bother
[11:49:35] <OndraSter> for 1 rows
[11:49:37] <DrLuke> but that also didn't work out
[11:49:41] <Tom_itx> oh you're just a lazy ass :)
[11:49:44] <DrLuke> :P
[11:49:47] <specing> Smallest I've done so far was 0.8 pitch TQFP-32
[11:49:47] <DrLuke> that too
[11:49:54] <karlp> less chemicals to have in teh house, less equipment to have in teh house,
[11:49:59] <karlp> all for "experience" ?!
[11:50:10] <Tom_itx> it's handy for testing stuff or one off boards
[11:50:22] <specing> And I had to repeat the prototransfer procedure because I scratched off some traces with my fingers while handling the board
[11:51:39] <DrLuke> anyways it's satisfying my first pcb is working out :P
[11:53:12] <specing> DrLuke: How many did you have made?
[11:53:20] <DrLuke> 10
[11:53:28] <specing> lloll
[11:53:31] <DrLuke> so, 1 fore use an 9 nice coasters
[11:53:45] <specing> 10 just to test sth out?
[11:54:08] <specing> DrLuke: How much did it cost?
[11:54:15] <DrLuke> 30 dollar including shipping
[11:54:31] <DrLuke> and I didn't just test something, it's for my tesla coil
[11:54:35] <DrLuke> I plan to use it
[11:55:19] <specing> 30$ for 10...
[11:55:30] <specing> What is the area of it?
[11:55:44] <specing> Is it dual-layer board?
[11:58:19] <OndraSter> specing, http://clip2net.com/s/1ZkMQ
[11:58:21] <OndraSter> better?! :D
[11:58:49] <specing> OndraSter: I APROVE OF THAT!
[11:58:50] <DrLuke> yes
[11:58:54] <DrLuke> 10*10 cm dual layer
[11:58:59] <DrLuke> silkscreen and E-Test
[11:59:05] <OndraSter> iTead?
[11:59:24] <specing> DrLuke: Nice
[11:59:32] <karlp> OndraSter: what's that meant to be a breakout for?
[11:59:39] <OndraSter> karlp, xmega256a3u
[11:59:44] <specing> Wonder how much a quad-layer 10*10 board would be....
[11:59:50] <OndraSter> specing, a lot
[12:00:01] <specing> :(
[12:00:07] <OndraSter> the price goes exponentially with each set of two layers
[12:00:22] <specing> OndraSter: Do you think I could squeeze a 176-pin ARM9 onto just two layers?
[12:00:38] <OndraSter> sure, but depends on what are you planning on connecting to it :P
[12:00:57] <specing> well, DRAM for a start
[12:01:05] <OndraSter> what chip btw?
[12:01:33] <specing> TI AM1705
[12:01:40] <DrLuke> ondraster: yes
[12:01:41] <OndraSter> I am looking for something ~400MHz with either external DRAM interface on its own or a lot of IO pins (and the DRAM would be connected to CPLD)
[12:01:49] <specing> OndraSter: ^
[12:01:52] <OndraSter> specing, :)
[12:02:00] <OndraSter> I looked at 1705 too I think
[12:02:06] <specing> OndraSter: AM1705 is your choice then :)
[12:02:28] <OndraSter> yeah, it was the last one I looked at I think
[12:02:58] <specing> It says it is 375/475 MHz
[12:03:08] <specing> Now what is it?
[12:03:12] <OndraSter> 375 for TQFP
[12:03:14] <OndraSter> 475 for BGA
[12:03:16] <OndraSter> I BET!
[12:03:25] <OndraSter> 456*
[12:03:25] <specing> AM1705 is not available in BGA...
[12:03:29] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:03:56] <specing> Yeah...
[12:03:58] <OndraSter> so far every chip I always looked at (let alone CPLDs) that had higher clock was only in BGA
[12:04:03] <OndraSter> ALWAYS!
[12:05:06] <specing> A dilemma ensues
[12:05:38] <OndraSter> hmm can one actually build a oscillator using xtal + inverter? :P
[12:05:38] <karlp> so, you pay someone else to do it :)
[12:06:09] <karlp> can't you build an oscillator with just an inverter?
[12:06:33] <OndraSter> not with "precisely" set timing
[12:06:34] <specing> OndraSter: ARM926 375 MHz (1.2V) or 456 MHz (1.3V)
[12:06:38] <OndraSter> ah
[12:06:41] <specing> :)
[12:06:41] <OndraSter> specing, sounds sexy!
[12:06:58] <specing> Wonder if it does 1.4V!
[12:07:05] <OndraSter> and half gig?
[12:07:07] <specing> suddenly 556MHz!
[12:07:10] <OndraSter> I bet it does even more at 1,4V
[12:07:18] <specing> Well
[12:07:59] <OndraSter> oh I know why I didn't look at it enough
[12:08:06] <OndraSter> because it has lead time 20 weeks on mouser.
[12:08:32] <specing> If you give it 5V, it will run at like 5 GHz!
[12:08:39] <OndraSter> for how long?
[12:08:45] <specing> Why even regulate the input voltage? j/k :P
[12:08:51] <OndraSter> :P
[12:08:56] <specing> I'd just hook it up to 230V!
[12:08:57] <OndraSter> liquid nitrogen
[12:08:58] <OndraSter> heh
[12:09:04] <OndraSter> quadzilion jiggawatz!
[12:09:07] <specing> suddenly THz!
[12:09:53] <specing> http://eu.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=AM1705
[12:10:01] <specing> Looks pretty obtainable to me
[12:10:02] <OndraSter> I know
[12:10:13] <specing> 12 in stock
[12:10:13] <OndraSter> I see only 12 pieces
[12:10:15] <OndraSter> of old B revision
[12:10:19] <specing> Do you need more?
[12:10:37] <OndraSter> well they will be out of stock before I pick all the components :)
[12:10:40] <OndraSter> and design at least schematic
[12:11:23] <specing> They had 12 a week ago too
[12:12:38] <specing> And by the time you get the schematics designed, the lead time will get reduced to 0 weeks
[12:13:12] <Tom_itx> OndraSter or obsolete?
[12:13:31] <OndraSter> yes, revB is old and not recommended for new designgs
[12:14:12] <specing> Also, there is a cortex-a8 in TQFP
[12:14:28] <specing> Only unobtainable
[12:15:34] <OndraSter> yeah, because all TQFP Cortexes require pins to be made from unobtinium :(
[12:16:05] <specing> s/all/the/
[12:16:21] <specing> 1 to be exact
[12:16:47] <specing> the A13 from Allwinner is the only QFP cortex-a8 on market
[12:17:17] <specing> But I wouldn't bother because the documentation exceeds all known scarcity levels
[12:17:27] <OndraSter> :D
[12:17:34] <OndraSter> there is one more thing I hate about this
[12:17:36] <specing> Its OVER 9000 scarce!
[12:17:45] <OndraSter> THERE IS NO GOOD IDE :(
[12:17:53] <OndraSter> all the vendor stuff usually uses Eclipse
[12:17:53] <specing> FOR WHAT?
[12:17:59] <OndraSter> and debugging through GDB
[12:18:12] <OndraSter> for making the firmware maybe?
[12:18:21] <specing> D'oh you would like to code the firmware yourself?
[12:18:23] <OndraSter> Visual Studio and thus now Atmel Studio are awesome
[12:18:31] <OndraSter> no, I'd love to make a robot that writes it instead of me
[12:18:36] <OndraSter> but I'd first need to make that one
[12:18:37] <specing> What kind of shrooms have you been eating lately?
[12:18:39] <OndraSter> chicken & egg!
[12:18:45] <OndraSter> wat
[12:18:59] <specing> You don't know what shrooms are?
[12:19:22] <OndraSter> sure I do
[12:19:30] <OndraSter> but what should the MCU be for if not for your firmware?
[12:20:05] <specing> Linux d'oh :)
[12:20:15] <OndraSter> ..............
[12:20:16] <OndraSter> oh
[12:20:18] <specing> 500 MHz is MORE than enaugh to run it
[12:20:21] <OndraSter> yes
[12:20:26] <OndraSter> but I don't want to run it Linux :)
[12:20:32] <specing> I have Arch on a 200MHz AT91
[12:20:53] <specing> You can manipulate all the pins/peripherals from userspace
[12:21:23] <OndraSter> but if I were to run linux on 500MHz MCU and on top of that my firmware, I'd need at least 1GHz MCU :P
[12:21:32] <OndraSter> I want to emulate 386/486
[12:21:43] <OndraSter> 286 could be done even on AVR :P
[12:21:55] <specing> WHAT KIND OF SHROOMS HAVE YOU BEEN EATING?!!?
[12:22:02] <specing> DUDE
[12:22:03] <OndraSter> the funky ones
[12:22:19] <specing> You use a FPGA to emulate arches, not humble ARM9s
[12:22:23] <OndraSter> ;D
[12:22:25] <tmpvar> is there a "hello world" circuit somewhere for a atmega32u4 powered from usb?
[12:22:31] <OndraSter> tmpvar, blinky?
[12:22:40] <OndraSter> I bet there is one on Tom's website
[12:22:51] <OndraSter> specing, what's wrong on using ARM9
[12:22:59] <OndraSter> I somewhat feel safer around ARM rather FPGA
[12:23:06] <tmpvar> OndraSter, do you have the url for Tom's site?
[12:23:07] <OndraSter> (and even safer at AVR)
[12:23:11] <OndraSter> tmpvar, in the topic :)
[12:23:13] <Essobi> :D ONLY IN YUUURRR AAAAAAAARRRRMMMMS
[12:23:18] <tmpvar> oh, god. of course :)
[12:23:19] <Essobi> hehehe...
[12:23:38] <Essobi> OndraSter: I was playing with my ARM920T lastnight..
[12:23:45] <specing> tmpvar: #define F_CPU 16000000UL #include <util/delay.h> int main () { DDRB = 255; while (1) { _sleep_ms(100); PORTB = 0xff; _sleep_ms(100); PORTB = 0; } }
[12:23:58] <OndraSter> Essobi, kinky stuff?
[12:24:05] <tmpvar> specing, more interested in the circuitry
[12:24:20] <Essobi> nah... who did that?
[12:24:23] <specing> tmpvar: hook a led though a resistor to a pin
[12:24:51] <Essobi> Umm might have been the netbsd guys... they took some 90s love song and changed all the lyrics to ARM related stuff...
[12:25:02] <specing> Really?
[12:25:23] <Essobi> yea.
[12:25:38] <Essobi> might have been the openbsd guys... I don't remember.. someone made one about ARM.
[12:25:46] <tmpvar> specing, 'course.. but what about the other bits: do I need an external osc? what sort of circuitry do I need to get the chip powered from usb (safely)?
[12:26:05] <OndraSter> specing, http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lattice/iCE40HX4K-TQ144/?qs=F9A14TELRMtLnUltxyRE6IUVoM%2foBWDPEVL4Vjk7v%252bU%3d
[12:26:19] <OndraSter> I am fairly sure that with the ARM9 I can make it easier and more powerful
[12:26:37] <OndraSter> let alone when one wishes to be able to run different emulators through simple select menu (486, NES, SNES, ..)
[12:28:18] <specing> tmpvar: none actually
[12:28:44] <tmpvar> so usb header -> avr -> led?
[12:29:13] <specing> tmpvar: yeah
[12:29:18] <tmpvar> that sounds too easy?
[12:29:21] <specing> OndraSter: Lattice does FPGAs too?
[12:29:24] <OndraSter> yes
[12:29:34] <OndraSter> Lattice, Xilinx, Altera
[12:29:34] <specing> tmpvar: Why do you think there are 100 people in this channel then?
[12:29:36] <OndraSter> the big 3 players :)
[12:29:50] <specing> I thought only Xiling and Altera do them
[12:30:04] <OndraSter> nope
[12:30:11] <specing> Also
[12:30:12] <specing> Factory Lead-Time: 14 Weeks
[12:30:15] <OndraSter> :/
[12:30:19] <OndraSter> so back to AM1705 :P
[12:30:23] <specing> Yeap ;)
[12:30:24] <OndraSter> if I wanted also LCD controller...
[12:30:30] <OndraSter> I'd have to go BGA :(
[12:30:30] <specing> Err
[12:30:32] <tmpvar> specing, good point. So why are the arduino and other breakout boards more complicated?
[12:30:51] <specing> tmpvar: They arent
[12:31:27] <OndraSter> they just contain stuff like USB - UART
[12:33:30] <specing> tmpvar: If you look at a modern PCs motherboard, would you say it is complicated?
[12:35:51] <tmpvar> specing, not really, I guess
[12:36:01] <asteve> modern pc motherboards have uC's on them
[12:36:12] <asteve> some may even have an fpga
[12:36:22] <specing> tmpvar: exactly
[12:36:39] <OndraSter> yeah and only Intel puts unused and effed up transistors in their chips :P
[12:36:43] <OndraSter> (SandyBridge B2 owner here)
[12:36:58] <prpplague> OndraSter: what is it your are trying to build?
[12:37:08] <OndraSter> 486 emulator presumably
[12:37:10] <tmpvar> ok, so why does this guy have such a large (relative to chip, header, led) bom? http://paranoidstudio.assembla.com/spaces/paranoidstudio/wiki/USB2AX_v3
[12:37:11] <OndraSter> or NES etc as wel
[12:37:13] <OndraSter> in it
[12:37:15] <OndraSter> in your pocket :)
[12:37:17] <OndraSter> with 5" screen
[12:37:31] <specing> tmpvar: And if you think modern computer stuff is complex, you can rest assured that nothing is not even close to 0.000001% of the complexity of your brains
[12:37:42] <prpplague> OndraSter: ahh
[12:37:49] <specing> (Happy thinking :) )
[12:37:54] <tmpvar> haha
[12:38:06] <OndraSter> and close to 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% complexity of women's brains
[12:38:25] <prpplague> OndraSter: of course there are a ton of inexpensive arm devices that can be re-purposed, but i suspect you want to do it all from scratch
[12:38:53] <specing> OndraSter: Exactly
[12:40:05] <specing> Actually the blue gene project has successfully emulated a _single_ neural column of the rats brain on a >1MW supercomputer
[12:40:34] <specing> And our brains consume close to 50W
[12:43:29] <prpplague> specing: some people consume more power than others, hehe
[12:44:02] <CapnKernel> the blue gene project has successfully emulated a _single_ neural column of a male rat's brain on a >1MW supercomputer, and decoded the overwhelming imperative as "I gotta have me some girl rat NOW"
[12:44:27] <CapnKernel> Apparently some urges transcend species :-)
[12:45:31] <prpplague> hehe
[12:46:14] * theBear can't help but be sceptical of the usefulness or measurable results of a single neuron, oh column, /me retracts his current statement
[12:47:26] <asteve> theBear: that's the name of my dog
[12:47:44] <CapnKernel> heaven knows what you call your bear
[12:47:46] <theBear> errr, sceptical ?
[12:47:50] <theBear> heh
[12:50:24] <specing> Maybe he calls him "help"?
[12:55:08] <theBear> hehe :)
[13:37:02] <Fleck> specing no clue what that means...
[13:51:44] <tetsuo__> what is the meaning of "$C9" in avr assembler?
[13:53:29] <vectory_> hex
[13:53:57] <vectory_> $c9=0xc9=217
[13:54:07] <vectory_> tetsuo__: ^
[13:54:16] <tetsuo__> ah, how confusing - avr-gcc doesn't know this
[13:54:39] <tetsuo__> thanks
[14:02:16] <specing> Fleck: no clue what what means?
[14:02:35] <specing> tetsuo__: 0x is gcc
[14:02:47] <JyZyXEL> avrdude -c usbtiny -p attiny2313 -U hfuse:w:0xdf:m -U lfuse:w:0x60:m
[14:02:49] <JyZyXEL> avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
[14:02:53] <Fleck> specing about this: [16:10:00] <specing> Fleck: Tell me if it is consumption = t_on / (t_off+t_on) * holding_current?
[14:02:55] <JyZyXEL> the first time i executed it, it worked
[14:02:59] <JyZyXEL> what might be wrong?
[14:03:30] <tetsuo__> specing: I'm currently rewriting a program from avra to avr-gcc; strangely enough the program uses both ways of writing hex numbers
[14:03:38] <specing> Fleck: well you are doing PWM on it, right?
[14:04:00] <Fleck> yes, on pin 10
[14:04:06] <specing> tetsuo__: var = 0xc9
[14:04:27] <specing> Fleck: So what is its power consumption?
[14:04:51] <Fleck> havent tested yet...
[14:20:40] <abcminiuser> Can anyone think of a way to generate a random number between 0 and N in a makefile?
[14:20:45] <abcminiuser> Without resorting to bash?
[14:22:05] <vectory> wheres the prob? use bash, at least anyone can read that.
[14:23:18] <abcminiuser> That would mean having to install bash on Windows
[14:23:28] <abcminiuser> I'm making a new build system for LUFA, minimal dependencies
[14:31:20] <Tom_itx> so you can randomly build it?
[14:34:16] <JyZyXEL> does avrdude allow setting the ISP bus speed?
[14:35:06] <JyZyXEL> apparently my MCU is set to some clock settings that cannot be programmed with the standard usbtiny 400kHz clockrate
[14:35:29] <Corwin> since win xp, you can use %random% variable to get random number between 0 and 32767
[14:35:41] <Corwin> in command line
[14:36:37] <Kevin`> JyZyXEL: it does, yes
[14:38:14] <JyZyXEL> well theres -i delay in microseconds, should i use that?
[14:39:04] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, for an easter egg ;)
[14:39:55] <Corwin> its easter again already
[14:39:56] <Corwin> ?
[14:40:41] <JyZyXEL> or how do i handle this?
[14:41:51] <specing> abcminiuser: Use scons :)
[14:45:26] <Corwin> scons?
[14:45:41] <Corwin> like the python based SCons ?
[14:46:19] <Steffann> Yes
[14:47:00] <abcminiuser> Woo, this works
[14:47:04] <abcminiuser> I have a working build system now
[14:47:06] <abcminiuser> That's modular
[14:47:18] <OndraSter> and randomly works?
[14:47:25] <OndraSter> (or randomly doesn't work?)
[14:47:35] <Corwin> randomly deletes your project :)
[14:47:47] <Steffann> "this" abcminiuser ?
[14:48:19] <abcminiuser> Steffann, my new modular makefiles for LUFA
[14:48:26] <abcminiuser> No more gigantic balls of mud for each project
[14:48:32] <Steffann> + the random stuff?
[14:49:08] <abcminiuser> Nah, not worth it for an easter egg
[14:51:32] <abcminiuser> https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa-lib/tree/master/branches/BuildSystem2.0
[14:59:59] <karlp> here's my easter egg in a makefile: https://github.com/karlp/kkstm32_base/blob/master/example/32l_lcd/Makefile#L41
[15:01:16] <Steffann> ay
[15:05:09] <abcminiuser> This just says "Powered By Unicorns (tm)" in the help
[15:07:16] <abcminiuser> Oh man this actually works
[15:07:24] <Steffann> A miracle?
[15:07:40] <abcminiuser> All the project makefiles are going to look like this instead: https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa-lib/blob/master/branches/BuildSystem2.0/makefile
[15:07:52] <abcminiuser> Steffann, when make is involved miracles are always possible :P
[15:08:12] <specing> I'td be far easier with SCons
[15:08:15] <Steffann> Yeah
[15:08:30] * specing uses Scons for all his projects, including AVR
[15:08:53] <Steffann> ok
[15:26:18] <mimcpher> Is Scons still slow?
[15:35:25] <specing> SCons is python
[15:35:45] <specing> with added build stuff
[15:39:28] <Steffann> That doesn't make it fast ..
[15:40:19] <asteve> CapnKernel: my dog is pit/rott mix that's brindle
[16:01:47] <Toneloc> do all avr microcontrollers have miso,sck,rst ,mosi
[16:01:56] <Toneloc> in the same layout?
[16:02:32] <OndraSter> yes, all of them do
[16:02:36] <OndraSter> but they might be on different pin#
[16:02:45] <Toneloc> oh, thats really good
[16:02:53] <OndraSter> and the older ones use PDI/PDO pins, but they are ooold
[16:03:01] <Toneloc> so, i could just use a big socket
[16:03:08] <OndraSter> huh?
[16:03:12] <Toneloc> and put the avr in it
[16:03:18] <Toneloc> aligned to these pins
[16:03:21] <Toneloc> and it will work
[16:03:22] <OndraSter> (actually there is also xmega devices which do not program through this SPI ISP)
[16:03:31] <OndraSter> there are different # of pins
[16:03:34] <OndraSter> chips
[16:03:38] <OndraSter> where it might be somewhere else
[16:03:42] <Toneloc> ok
[16:03:49] <Toneloc> i wont bother a socket for now
[16:12:55] <iR0b0t1> Can someone help me w/ a checklist for programming an attiny85 from an AVR ISP mkII?
[16:13:09] <iR0b0t1> When I power the target and plug in the programmer, I get a green LED like it knows there is something connected
[16:13:13] <iR0b0t1> but I can't program it.
[16:15:05] <iR0b0t1> the light goes from green to orange while programming
[16:15:11] <iR0b0t1> and holds orange for a bit
[16:38:46] <nameless`> hello
[16:38:46] <tobbor> hi nameless`.
[16:39:41] <nameless`> i'm trying to flash my kkcontroller with avrdude, after fingerprint verification is ok, it writes the code however reading get stuck at 0%, any ideas about where it is from ?
[22:57:12] <rue_mohr> the 10 pin is better
[22:57:59] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:59:33] <rue_mohr> nobody ever scerwed up the pinout of 10 pin
[22:59:46] <rue_mohr> and you have adjacent pins for a reset button