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[04:09:52] <OS|bedding> oh CapnKernel, I messed it up, sorry :)
[04:25:36] <amee2k> oh. the LM1117 only does 15? thats not much :(
[04:28:23] <OndraSter> CapnKernel,
http://clip2net.com/s/1Uqmf :D
[04:28:46] <Steffanx> hehe OndraSter
[05:09:09] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: Good thing Jan-'s not here.
[05:09:19] <OndraSter> :D
[05:09:38] <CapnKernel> OS|bedding
[05:09:56] <OndraSter> no, OndraSter, I am not bedding anymore :)
[05:10:29] <CapnKernel> Sorry, I was just trying to do a find.
[05:14:28] <Steffanx> !seen Jan-
[05:14:29] <tobbor> Jan- was last seen in #avr on Mar 29 19:30 2012
[05:14:32] <Steffanx> Whaat
[05:19:18] <Tom_itx> shhhh
[06:36:27] <inflex> hiya Tom_itx
[06:57:01] <Steffanx> Sorry, I didn't want to wake you up Tom_itx
[07:01:08] <ziph> inflex: What width paste mask would you use on an 0.3mm wide LQFP land?
[07:08:24] <inflex> 0.35mm perhaps?
[07:08:39] <inflex> maybe 0.32~0.33
[07:08:40] <ziph> The paste would be bigger than the pad?
[07:08:48] <inflex> oooh, paste
[07:08:51] <inflex> sorry *slaps own head*
[07:08:55] <ziph> Heh. :)
[07:09:05] <inflex> I just use the pad size when down to that size
[07:09:46] <inflex> but a lot depends on how thick your stencil is
[07:17:56] <ziph> inflex: 0.005"
[07:18:21] <ziph> inflex: (I'm going to give pcbstencils.com a go.)
[07:19:23] <ziph> inflex: Is that similar to the material you use?
[07:19:33] <ziph> inflex: (The height that is)
[07:21:06] <inflex> mine has typically been thicker, but not by choice, 0.005 is nicer
[07:21:34] <inflex> due to the thickness of mine (about 0.010) I've had to often break up larger areas into smaller lots so that I don't get bridging or excessive balling
[07:27:59] <CapnKernel> inflex: What are you breaking up into smaller areas?
[07:46:11] <inflex> CapnKernel: things like DPAK areas
[07:46:29] <inflex> usually I'll break it up into a 50% coverage of smaller squares
[07:46:52] <CapnKernel> Interesting idea, I'll have to remember that.
[07:47:16] <inflex> ja, I find for home stencils that anything much larger than 1206 pads can cause trouble
[07:47:30] <CapnKernel> inflex: Do you know about #ozhs?
[07:47:32] <z1ph> hangon, so you have one dpak area, and two stencils that both cover _part_ of that area?
[07:47:42] <CapnKernel> The dpak area is subdivided
[07:48:06] <inflex> CapnKernel: no, what is #ozhs
[07:48:09] <CapnKernel> So when the solder is melted, it doesn't form one huge ball. Rather, smaller balls that don't aggregate
[07:48:18] <z1ph> dpak area is just a big thermal pad right? one square of copper?
[07:48:21] <CapnKernel> An IRC channel for hackers in Australia. The HS is Hackerspace
[07:48:24] <CapnKernel> Valen is there :-)
[07:48:27] <inflex> oooh hackerspace
[07:48:35] <z1ph> or do you modify the footprint to have 4 squares rather than one?
[07:48:36] <inflex> ziph: yeah
[07:48:50] <inflex> ziph: I modify the large area into being 4~6 smaller areas
[07:48:57] <z1ph> ok, I thought you were just doing this in the stencil,
[07:49:03] <z1ph> I didn't get how that would work.
[07:49:20] <ziph> z1ph: Change your nick karl
[07:49:32] <CapnKernel> Yeah, or ziph will come and get you
[07:49:35] <inflex> it puts down 4 small doses of paste, over about 50% of the total area
[07:49:50] <inflex> prevents you getting excess paste on the area which then floods out the sides
[07:50:14] <CapnKernel> That's a DGI
[07:50:29] <learningc> CapnKernel: I've got a question for you
[07:50:40] <CapnKernel> inflex: We got 25-30 peeps in #ozhs
[07:50:44] <CapnKernel> learningc: shoot
[07:51:37] <learningc> CapnKernel: how do these chinese stores on ebay sell so low with free shipping?
[07:52:17] <z1ph> ziph: we've been through this already :)
[07:52:36] <CapnKernel> Are you guys like, even talking to each other?
[07:52:53] <z1ph> I didn't like the volume of people with with z nicks, you all rfused, so I joined the party instead
[07:52:54] <CapnKernel> learningc: High volume, low margin.
[07:52:56] <ziph> z1ph: What are you talking about?
[07:53:18] <z1ph> ziph, zyp, zyppe, zipp
[07:54:20] <learningc> CapnKernel: is regular shipping free in China?
[07:54:26] <CapnKernel> No
[07:54:58] <ziph> z1ph: So you're harassing me?
[07:55:06] <CapnKernel> This is fun
[07:55:30] <z1ph> what? no, I'm just choosing a nick that starts with z and is phoneticall similar to many fo the other z nicks that I found confusing.
[07:55:47] * CapnKernel thinks ziph was here first
[07:56:05] <z1ph> that's rather irrelevant methinks
[07:56:14] <learningc> CapnKernel: on some packages I recieved I can see the postal cost and it's perhaps half the cost of the bid... this means they don't do any profit?
[07:56:17] <OndraSter> wait
[07:56:18] <OndraSter> ziph
[07:56:19] <OndraSter> z1ph
[07:56:24] <z1ph> see?
[07:56:25] <OndraSter> split personality?
[07:56:27] <CapnKernel> learningc: That ratio sounds about right
[07:56:29] <z1ph> no, two different people.
[07:56:39] <zyp_> is that better?
[07:56:42] <CapnKernel> YES
[07:56:55] <zyp_> in this channel perhaps :)
[07:57:07] <zyp_> same mayhem in others
[07:57:48] <CapnKernel> learningc: Postage is a significant cost
[07:58:22] <OndraSter> for .99 items..
[07:58:23] <CapnKernel> A lot of folks make nothing or lose if you only buy one thing
[07:58:38] <OndraSter> I even few times won on ebay auctions that started for .01 and ended with .5 :)
[07:58:52] <CapnKernel> But sociologically, "free shipping" is such a drawcard that you make it up on other orders.
[07:59:06] <OndraSter> even local postage for letters is more than $.5
[07:59:44] <Steffanx> zyp left this channel, so zyp_ is ok zyp_ :)
[07:59:56] * zyp_ grins
[07:59:57] <learningc> CapnKernel: how do they manage to send me an item for $0.50 while handing the cost of shipping and handling? How can they make profit?
[08:00:18] <Steffanx> What's wrong with karlp zyp_ ?
[08:00:18] <CapnKernel> You're assuming they do
[08:00:20] <OndraSter> they don't :)
[08:00:24] <zyp_> ilke he said,: CapnKernel> A lot of folks make nothing or lose if you only buy one thing
[08:00:38] <CapnKernel> These folks work on razor thin margins
[08:00:54] <zyp_> Steffanx: nothing, I just asked why we had to have so many same length z?p? nicks,
[08:00:56] <CapnKernel> By being extremely good at what they do: Parts procurement and dispatch
[08:01:05] <OndraSter> with hundreds of thousands feedbacks on ebay means that they sold milions of parts I suppos
[08:01:06] <OndraSter> e
[08:01:10] <CapnKernel> Who is this "we"?
[08:01:11] <Steffanx> Ah, ok zy
[08:01:11] <zyp_> and was met with flat out refusal, so I took the, "can't beat em, join em" attitude
[08:01:12] <Steffanx> zyp_
[08:01:28] <Steffanx> That's the spririt
[08:01:30] <Steffanx> -r
[08:01:47] <CapnKernel> zyp_: zyp_ good, z1ph er, not so good.
[08:02:05] <CapnKernel> z1ph trips the poor-form-ometer
[08:02:07] <OndraSter> should I rename myself to z1p|-|?
[08:02:25] <OndraSter> :P
[08:02:31] <zipn> I've never had any problems in #avr with confusing nicks,
[08:02:38] <CapnKernel> Ask yourself, if I did X, would I be a dick?
[08:02:42] <zipn> unfortunately nick is server wide, not channel wide
[08:02:49] <ziph> zipn: Pick something else or I'll nicely ask Tom_it*x to ban you.
[08:03:04] <OndraSter> I have it simple, I just don't remember almost any nicks on IRC :)
[08:03:09] <OndraSter> actually I don't remember much names in RL anyway
[08:03:34] <CapnKernel> zed: It's not because we're a nasty bunch, just that it's not nice to intentionally mess with people
[08:03:48] <ianb> I'm not messing with ziph, (well, I wasn't originally)
[08:03:48] <CapnKernel> ziph: He's sailing awfully close to the wind, eh?
[08:03:57] <CapnKernel> No, now you're messing with us.
[08:04:00] <karlp> it was never an issue in #avr
[08:04:13] <CapnKernel> karlp: Are we done yet?
[08:04:23] <karlp> wel, this is my name, is this not allowed either?
[08:04:30] <Steffanx> No
[08:04:37] <learningc> Yeah, it's not nice to mess with people's dicks :P
[08:05:07] <CapnKernel> learningc: How would one know if one hasn't tried it?
[08:05:47] <CapnKernel> Or rather, it's not nice to mess with people's nicks.
[08:06:19] <karlp> see how easy it is to get mixed up with just one letter ;)
[08:06:29] <CapnKernel> karlp: It's not the name. It's the obnoxious behaviour which is bordering on the troll
[08:06:38] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: There?
[08:07:03] <CapnKernel> rue_mohr: There?
[08:16:43] <WormFood> a PCB silkscreen for a diode marks one end with a white line (SMT diode)...that white line would mark the cathode, right?
[08:18:35] <CapnKernel> Yes, it corresponds with the bar on the diode case
[08:19:15] <WormFood> I found an LED once, that was marked wrong. You could see the inside the case, and tell, but the external marks were wrong.
[08:19:36] <WormFood> that is what I thought. Just wanted to make sure they didn't create a new standard for diodes, when I wasn't looking.
[08:20:10] <CapnKernel> I've found LEDs like that too.
[08:20:28] <CapnKernel> Chamfer wrong, or LED length wrong.
[08:20:38] <CapnKernel> *lead length
[08:22:44] <WormFood> ever seen a resistor short out...like a 100k resistor, read as 0 ohms?
[08:22:58] <karlp> on a board, if somewhere else is shorted, sure
[08:23:06] <WormFood> At the place I worked, one guy brought in a resistor like that, that he replaced in the field.
[08:23:46] <WormFood> I couldn't believe it. It did not look like it had been excessively heated, and I tested it for myself....I can't imagine how it could have done that.
[08:24:17] <WormFood> but I did once see a light sensitive eprom....if you closed the case, or turned off the light, it would quit working...put a flashlight on it, and turn off all the other lights, and it worked just fine.
[08:25:01] <CapnKernel> I worked on a CP/M box many years ago. Actually MP/M, as it had 16 Z-80 processors in it.
[08:25:02] <WormFood> it was a 68000 system, and it was just in a minimal mode. Static ram, serial port, eprom rom monitor....when I added the dram circuit and dram, everything worked fine.
[08:25:17] <CapnKernel> I had been pulling cards out for some reason, and when I put them all back in, that sucker wouldn't work
[08:25:29] <WormFood> I showed it to my friend, and he said "eproms don't work that way", and I said "I know! But you see it work that way with your own eyes!"
[08:25:40] <CapnKernel> Being the junior, with the angel boss out for the day, I was packing death.
[08:25:53] <WormFood> I hate it when something like that quits working
[08:26:39] <CapnKernel> Finally found the problem: One of the paper labels covering an EPROM had fallen off across the S-100 socket on the backplane, and so some of the signals between the card and the backplane weren't making it.
[08:27:02] <WormFood> nice!
[08:27:13] <WormFood> hopefully that didn't damage anything
[08:31:07] <CapnKernel> No, but there were some things I needed to replace.
[08:31:11] <CapnKernel> Like my underwear.
[09:28:30] <OndraSter> duh, as I much like writing ASM for AVR, I hate disassembling x86 binaries :)
[09:28:52] * OndraSter tried to fix not working Guitar Hero World Tour controller in GH Aerosmith while in GH3 it works fine... he found it where the magic happens, but eh, too much work for now
[09:29:11] <OndraSter> plus IDA freezes when debugging D3D apps (at least with GH3) :(
[09:29:14] <OndraSter> and I couldn't switch to it
[10:04:45] <learningc> Can those $10 avr programmer on ebay be used for avr32?
[10:09:47] <mrfrenzy_> what does the spec say=?
[10:15:05] <learningc> most of them I believe cannot program avr32, at least I haven't found one yet
[10:17:17] <learningc> I'm looking for cheap avr32 programmer to start with
[10:25:24] <OndraSter> learningc, no, they can not
[10:25:27] <OndraSter> no ISP programmer can do AVR32
[10:25:33] <OndraSter> just buy the Dragon!
[10:25:44] <OndraSter> you got worth of >hundred bucks of chips so invest in it.
[10:43:06] <rue_mohr> CapnKernel, sure
[10:44:34] <learningc> OndraSter: if I get into avr, I might as well buy a better programmer. The are 2 midrange jtagice, mkII and 3. Jtagice 3 is cheaper. Is the mkII better?
[10:46:46] <alexh> learningc: just curious; why AVR32 and not ARM or PIC32?
[10:46:54] <alexh> in particular, ARM
[10:48:07] <learningc> alexh: I'm already using pic32, I'm just looking into avr32 as a possible alternative and ARM in the future
[10:48:35] <CapnKernel> learningc: interesting:
http://mchck.org/
[10:52:25] <learningc> CapnKernel: thanks.
[10:55:38] <CapnKernel> np
[10:58:02] <OndraSter> learningc, because Dragon is cheaper. mkII is $299 and 3 is $199
[10:58:05] <OndraSter> dragon is $49
[10:59:25] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, btw, don't you need USB certification if you wish to sell some USB peripheral?
[11:00:04] <OndraSter> or since you are using already finished transceiver you don't need to
[11:01:25] <alexh> you need a VID
[11:01:40] <alexh> (or a sublicensed PID range)
[11:01:59] <learningc> OndraSter: what can be done with mkII that cannot be done with the 3?
[11:02:30] <OndraSter> nothing IIRC, no idea how come that mkII is more expensive than newer 3
[11:03:11] <learningc> so I better get a 3 instead of an mkII?
[11:03:24] <OndraSter> sure 3 is newer
[11:03:54] <OndraSter> but are you absolutely sure you need that? For starters I'd say go with the Dragon. It can do the same thing, just upload speeds are a bit slower
[11:03:56] <learningc> I just don't understand that price difference.
[11:03:59] <OndraSter> but if you break it - nothing happens
[11:04:10] <OndraSter> ask abcminiuser when he comes here
[11:04:21] <learningc> ok
[11:06:17] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: There is nothing which stops you from selling something. However, you can't call it USB compliant, or use the USB symbol, unless you have a license from the USB Implementor's Forum.
[11:06:25] <OndraSter> ah
[11:06:28] <OndraSter> but you can sell it :)
[11:06:29] <CapnKernel> abcminiuser knows far too much about this
[11:07:03] <CapnKernel> If you use an FTDI chip, ask FTDI, as they will give you PIDs.
[11:07:15] <OndraSter> I asked them, no reply (on email that was) :)
[11:07:18] <OndraSter> so I used stock one
[11:07:26] <CapnKernel> Don't do that.
[11:07:41] <OndraSter> don't do what?
[11:08:02] <learningc> there is abcminiuser_
[11:12:50] <CapnKernel> OndraSter:
https://gist.github.com/2667297
[11:13:27] <CapnKernel> The problem with using the stock FTDI VID/PID is that someone plugs your device into their computer, and the computer doesn't know what to do with it.
[11:13:33] <OndraSter> oh
[11:13:34] <CapnKernel> Or worse, it thinks it knows what to do with it.
[11:13:41] <OndraSter> well it is going to be one or two pieces of this device only
[11:14:00] <OndraSter> and it talks only with applications that use only my beloved library
[11:14:57] <OndraSter> the more pissy thing about serial ports is that Windows tries to detect what hardware is it by flushing about 150 bytes worth of data, toggling DTR or some other line as well
[11:15:06] <OndraSter> since it is connected as serial port.
[11:15:36] <CapnKernel> I don't know if this has been fixed, but in at least Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora, plugging in an Arduino (which used the stock FTDI VID/PID) would fire up UPS software under Linux, because some stoopid UPS vendor (I'm looking at you, "Watts Up") also did the same thing. A paucity of hilarity ensued.
[11:15:53] <CapnKernel> That's what you get for making it a generic device.
[11:15:59] <OndraSter> and with a bit of bad luck it is recognized as serial mouse
[11:15:59] <OndraSter> heh
[11:16:05] <CapnKernel> That's the Windows way of trying to fix it in software
[11:16:37] <CapnKernel> Most versions of Linux don't try to fix it in software, they just assume it's a UPS to punish you.
[11:16:54] <OndraSter> :D
[11:16:58] <CapnKernel> If you do USB in software, using V-USB, then there's a way you can get a VID and PID
[11:17:27] <CapnKernel> There are two friendly parties who bought VIDs from the Implementor's Forum before the Forum closed the door. These parties are allowed to do what they like with it.
[11:18:07] <CapnKernel> These parties let the V-USB project use the VID with some PIDs, and in turn, you can use a PID, as long as you follow some rules.
[11:18:34] <CapnKernel> Basically, you can share the PID with some other devices, but your descriptors must describe your device in a way that it can be distinguished from others.
[11:18:35] <OndraSter> well next project will be using xmega's hardware USB
[11:18:42] <CapnKernel> Ask Atmel
[11:18:47] <OndraSter> wondering if Atmel gives out PIDs
[11:18:48] <CapnKernel> Or abcminiuser
[11:18:54] <OndraSter> abc
[11:18:56] <OndraSter> he is gone again
[11:18:59] <CapnKernel> They gave some to abcminiuser :-)
[11:19:08] <OndraSter> well abcminiuser is not regular Atmel "user" :)
[11:22:08] <CapnKernel> http://fourwalledcubicle.com/blog/2010/03/obtaining-a-vid-and-pid/
[11:22:20] <CapnKernel> abcminiuser is an immortal who walks amongst men
[11:22:24] <CapnKernel> and women
[11:26:44] <OndraSter> thanks CapnKernel
[11:29:09] <CapnKernel> Seems you can still buy a PID from MCS
[11:29:18] <CapnKernel> EUR10
[11:30:46] <abcminiuser_> SVN's merge is bad and it should feel bad.
[11:33:13] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: abcminiuser_ is back
[11:33:25] <abcminiuser_> My WiFi here is horrendous :(
[11:33:34] <abcminiuser_> So if I drop out, I'll be back as soon as I can :S
[11:33:36] <CapnKernel> SVN was supposed to be a better CVS. It wasn't and isn't. It's merge model is terrible.
[11:33:53] <abcminiuser_> CapnKernel, it's merge model is non-existant
[11:34:05] <abcminiuser_> Seriously; I svn cp'd trunk to branches
[11:34:11] <abcminiuser_> Made a simple one liner change to trunk
[11:34:23] <abcminiuser_> Ran a SVN merge and it tree-conflicted everywhere
[11:34:41] <abcminiuser_> It's so bad at work we're desperately evaluating GIT hosts to get away from it...
[11:34:42] <CapnKernel> It's as freakin' brittle as a brittle thing
[11:34:58] <abcminiuser_> It's the special-ed of revision control
[11:35:24] <abcminiuser_> SVN is the reason I am drinking right now :P
[11:37:22] <CapnKernel> And not just because you're in Norway?
[11:37:45] <learningc> hey abcminiuser_
[11:37:48] <CapnKernel> Linus Torvalds: I did end up using CVS for 7 years at a commercial company Transmeta and I hate it with a passion. When I say I hate CVS with a passion, I have to also say that if there are any SVN (Subversion) users in the audience, you might want to leave."
[11:37:54] <CapnKernel> "Because my hatred of CVS has meant that I see Subversion as being the most pointless project ever started. The slogan of Subversion for a while was "CVS done right", or something like that, and if you start with that kind of slogan, there's nowhere you can go. There is no way to do CVS right."
[11:37:56] <abcminiuser_> Well that just dictates the *amount* I drink
[11:38:44] <CapnKernel> LOL
[11:39:04] <Steffanx> CapnKernel .. Mr. Torvalds is just a rant-a-lot
[11:39:18] <CapnKernel> No.
[11:39:22] <Steffanx> Yes
[11:39:25] <learningc> abcminiuser_: do you know the difference between jtagice mkII and 3 apart from the price?
[11:39:28] <CapnKernel> Is he a rant-a-lot? Yes. "just"? No.
[11:39:40] <Steffanx> Hmpf :P
[11:39:49] <alexh> most people who complain about svn are simply incapable of using it properly. it's not great, but it does a fair job when you know how to use it
[11:39:50] <CapnKernel> LBT: "I'm an egotistical bastard, and I name all my projects after myself. First 'Linux', now 'git'."
[11:40:00] <alexh> of course nowadays you'd be well advised to use a dvcs instead
[11:40:59] <alexh> and well, saying cvs is better than svn just means that whoever said that never used cvs
[11:41:29] <abcminiuser_> alexh, are you high?
[11:41:39] <alexh> no, are you?
[11:41:40] <abcminiuser_> It's horrendous for anything involving branches
[11:41:43] <Steffanx> tri-state
[11:41:57] <alexh> it's one of the better non-dvcs vcs
[11:42:10] <alexh> several orders of magnitude better than cvs, rcs or p4
[11:42:23] <alexh> of course it's still pretty crappy compared to a dvcs
[11:42:34] <abcminiuser_> alexh, it's great for one user, one branch (trunk)
[11:42:43] <alexh> well, I'd have to disagree
[11:42:47] <CapnKernel> ale
[11:42:54] <CapnKernel> alexh: Did anyone claim that?
[11:43:03] <abcminiuser_> alexh, my own experience and that of my workplace strongly, strongly disagree with you
[11:43:14] <abcminiuser_> It's better than ziping revisions, but not by much
[11:43:18] <alexh> abcminiuser_: my own experience and that of my workplace strongly, strongly disagree with you
[11:43:45] <abcminiuser_> ^ learningc yes, the JTAG-ICE3 is faster and cheaper, but not AS4 compatible
[11:44:00] <alexh> let's just agree to disagree
[11:44:09] <abcminiuser_> If you need AS4 or open source compatibility use the JTAG-ICE MKII, otherwise pick the cheaper/faster JTAG-MK3
[11:44:15] <abcminiuser_> alexh, indeed
[11:44:27] <Steffanx> Isn't the AVR ONE! also 'cheaper' nowadays?
[11:44:42] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, not any more
[11:44:46] <Steffanx> Hmpf
[11:44:53] <abcminiuser_> We had a freaking ton of them we wanted to get rid of
[11:45:13] <abcminiuser_> Now most have gone so the discount no longer applies
[11:45:22] <Steffanx> Yeah, who wants a 'stupid' debugger for 500$ ?!
[11:45:24] <abcminiuser_> No point in getting an AVR ONE! anyway
[11:45:30] <Steffanx> 599 even
[11:45:49] <abcminiuser_> It's power was it's ability to live-trace the AVR32s, but that's no longer really a thing since the AP7000s are deprecated
[11:46:00] <abcminiuser_> JTAG-ICE3 is what you really need nowadays
[11:46:14] <abcminiuser_> Incidentally, Atmel Studio 6 has been released
[11:46:23] <OndraSter> final AS6?
[11:47:13] <abcminiuser_> Yu[
[11:47:15] <abcminiuser_> *Yup
[11:47:22] <OndraSter> btw, abcminiuser_, you wrote rant about USB-IF VID's and PIDs, does Atmel offer giving out PIDs?
[11:47:26] <abcminiuser_> Fixes a bunch of bugs, starts quicker and has a new toolchain
[11:47:37] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, not at the moment, but I should ask about that
[11:47:51] <abcminiuser_> We do have a policy on them, but it's a bit restricted
[11:47:59] <OndraSter> oh ok, thanks
[11:48:04] <abcminiuser_> http://support.atmel.com/bin/customer.exe?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=220
[11:48:23] <abcminiuser_> Being at Atmel is great, I get to act as an ambassador of the people
[11:48:35] <abcminiuser_> So I can help out both the community and do normal work
[11:49:44] <OndraSter> Customer cannot apply to USB compliance testing with the USB-IF, therefore Customer cannot use the USB logo for an Integrated Product using the Atmel VID.
[11:49:48] <OndraSter> who would want to use the USB logo anyway?
[11:50:04] <Steffanx> And at least someone reads the rants about atmel abcminiuser_ :P
[11:50:15] <Steffanx> *someone from atmel
[11:52:55] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, there's a lot that read them in Atmel, but it's so fashonable to call them all names that a lot hide away from the community and don't try to help
[11:53:12] <abcminiuser_> Which kinda sucks, since that just fuels the community to call them worse names :(
[11:53:32] <Steffanx> I mean rants here, in this channel
[11:54:52] <abcminiuser_> Hell someone has to listen
[11:55:06] <abcminiuser_> You all realise you can always just email me and I'll follow it up right?
[11:55:26] <abcminiuser_> Even if it's a negative response, I can at least get things looked into
[11:57:14] <learningc> abcminiuser_: what is that AS4?
[11:57:17] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, have you hijacked VID for FOSS already? :P
[11:57:23] <OndraSter> learningc, old AVR Studio 4
[11:57:28] <learningc> ah
[11:57:30] <OndraSter> that is not powered by Visual Studio
[11:57:56] <learningc> is as4 any better so that I better use it?
[11:58:13] <OndraSter> no
[11:58:16] <abcminiuser_> learningc, some people are grumpy that we moved to VS rather than Eclipse
[11:58:29] <OndraSter> I love you for using VS over Eclipse :D
[11:58:31] <OndraSter> I hate anything Java
[11:58:33] <abcminiuser_> I actually super-hate Eclipse
[11:58:38] <OndraSter> and I love VS
[11:58:58] <learningc> so as6 is in vs?
[11:58:59] <OndraSter> (considering that I do C# for PCs and WinPho7)
[11:59:01] <OndraSter> sure
[11:59:02] <abcminiuser_> But I was still confused why moving from one windows only app to another was heralded as the end of all things good for some reason
[11:59:06] <Steffanx> When is the last time you tried Eclipse OndraSter ?
[11:59:13] <OndraSter> month ago at school
[11:59:18] <OndraSter> it was 3 years old version though lol
[11:59:30] <OndraSter> before that - half year ago on my laptop - and it sucked as well
[11:59:41] <learningc> so do I need to buy and install VS to use AS6?
[11:59:42] <OndraSter> there is no better IDE than VS.
[11:59:47] <OndraSter> no
[11:59:52] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, tried the NXP CodeRED editor last year, hate it
[12:00:00] <abcminiuser_> learningc, no, it's bundled
[12:00:09] <Steffanx> That's a highly customized version abcminiuser_ ?
[12:00:25] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, tried AVR32 Studio too
[12:00:34] <abcminiuser_> Something about it just doesn't gel with me
[12:00:36] <learningc> you mean, AS6 has VS in it?
[12:00:48] <OndraSter> wasn't AVR32 studio included in AS5 already? :)
[12:00:52] <abcminiuser_> VS may be windows only, but at least everything looks and works natively
[12:01:14] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, no, AVRStudio 5 and Atmel Studio 6 are Visual Studio based, no Eclipse
[12:01:20] <OndraSter> yes
[12:01:26] <OndraSter> but it included support for AVR32
[12:01:29] <abcminiuser_> AS5 can work with AVR8 and AVR32, AS6 can do AVR8, AVR32 and ARM
[12:01:42] <OndraSter> that's what I ment
[12:01:43] <abcminiuser_> Yup, it's the sucessor to both AS4 and AVR32 Studio
[12:01:55] <OndraSter> btw, can AS6 do also ARM7TDMI or just Cortex?
[12:02:00] <abcminiuser_> Now it does ARM too, so one platform for three architectures
[12:02:11] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, just SAM3 and SAM4 at the moment
[12:02:21] <abcminiuser_> Legacy devices aren't supported (yet?)
[12:02:23] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:02:29] <learningc> hmm, avr5 as6, which should I use?
[12:02:41] <OndraSter> at school it took them about 4 years to switch from old 196s to ARMs
[12:02:49] <OndraSter> but they used AT91SAM7S series
[12:02:52] <OndraSter> back in the day
[12:03:06] <OndraSter> (because at our school everything happens fast)
[12:03:23] <OndraSter> so now we are using combo of integrated SAM-BA bootloader + Keil IDE
[12:03:42] <OndraSter> also funny thing - when you reset the AT91 MCU at wrong time, whole PC crashes and resets lol
[12:03:55] <OndraSter> I was lucky enough to always bring my tablet and do all the programming there
[12:04:02] <abcminiuser_> Jeg er en kjott saft is på pinne
[12:04:29] <OndraSter> me no speak norweigian!
[12:05:46] <raek> abcminiuser_: Varför är du en köttsaftglasspinne?
[12:06:12] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, "I am a meat popsicle"
[12:06:22] <learningc> OndraSter: that racist! :P
[12:06:23] <OndraSter> ??
[12:06:51] <abcminiuser_> It's a quote from a movie ("The Fifth Element") translated into Norwegian which I'm currently learning
[12:06:53] <raek> it said "I am a meat, juice, icecream on a stick"
[12:06:58] <OndraSter> oh
[12:07:32] <abcminiuser_> raek, I think that's Google Translate being derpy, I asked a co-worker to help
[12:08:11] <raek> I think it should be "Jeg er en kjøttispinne", or something like that
[12:08:36] <OndraSter> my PC is going to love me: AS4.19, AS5, AS5.1 and AS6
[12:08:39] <OndraSter> time to uninstall it!
[12:08:42] <raek> in swedish it would be "Jag är en köttglasspinne"
[12:09:13] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, jesus, remove all but AS4 and AS6
[12:09:29] <abcminiuser_> No need for 5 and 5.1, since each new version >5 are direct replacements
[12:09:31] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, installing new Jungo driver and it asks whether I want to install "Segger USB something" from "SEGGER Microcontroller GmbH & Co.KG"
[12:09:37] <OndraSter> shouldn't it be Atmel? :)
[12:09:46] <abcminiuser_> Segger makes our SAM-ICE debuggers
[12:09:50] <OndraSter> ah
[12:09:52] <abcminiuser_> We just license the tech from them
[12:09:58] <learningc> why leaving AS4? isn't as6 better?
[12:10:03] <abcminiuser_> learningc, yes and no
[12:10:17] <abcminiuser_> AS4 can work with some ye olde tools and devices that AS6 can't
[12:10:27] <learningc> ahhh
[12:10:30] <OndraSter> I was using AS4 only twice since I got AVR Dragon because there was bug in AS5 (which I found in AS4 as well)
[12:10:36] <OndraSter> not sure whether I sent the bug report..
[12:10:40] <abcminiuser_> And before AS6 things could be a little unstable, AS6 fixes most of that however (I uninstalled AS4 when 6 went gold)
[12:10:52] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, what was the bug? I can check on Monday
[12:11:21] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, when there is nothing beginning on address 0, JTAG on (at least) Dragon says "device disconnected" or something... adding anything like jump on address 0 solves it
[12:11:22] * abcminiuser_ is on AVR/ARM support for a few weeks still
[12:11:23] <learningc> so with a jtagice3, I only need AS6 and not as4?
[12:11:31] <OndraSter> that is when you are doing only bootloader
[12:11:46] <abcminiuser_> learningc, with a JTAG-ICE3, you cannot use AS4 with it at all
[12:11:51] <OndraSter> and you have BDRST fuse set you do not want anything overwriting the beginning of flash... that's when I found it
[12:11:58] <OndraSter> and I was afraid I broke the Dragon :(
[12:12:01] <learningc> abcminiuser_: ok
[12:12:23] <learningc> OndraSter: do you have a jtagice?
[12:12:27] <OndraSter> no
[12:12:29] <OndraSter> I have AVR Dragon
[12:12:35] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, send reproduction steps to avr@atmel, cc dean_patrick.camera@atmel and I'll take care of it
[12:12:42] <OndraSter> thanks
[12:12:49] <OndraSter> will try in AS6 first though
[12:12:57] <learningc> abcminiuser_: you work at atmel?
[12:13:05] <abcminiuser_> learningc, since January
[12:13:13] <learningc> oh
[12:13:14] <OndraSter> learningc, dream job eh? :)
[12:13:25] <abcminiuser_> Above goes for all of you - any questions or problems, email me first and I'll make sure it's followed up somewhere
[12:13:30] <learningc> abcminiuser_: how you got there?
[12:13:55] <abcminiuser_> I hate how people complain that Atmel won't help, because they either don't know who to talk to or because Atmel won't listen
[12:14:05] <abcminiuser_> So I'll make sure everyone's as happy as possible
[12:14:29] <abcminiuser_> learningc, I was asked to apply over a year ago, but I was in Uni so I asked if I could do an internship
[12:14:47] <abcminiuser_> I was there a few weeks and then they asked me for an interview and as soon as I finished my degree I moved back to Norway to work for them
[12:15:24] <abcminiuser_> learningc,
http://fourwalledcubicle.com/Internship.php and
http://fourwalledcubicle.com/InternshipQA.php
[12:20:21] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, while trying to upgrade firmware on Dragon:
http://clip2net.com/s/1UwnV
[12:20:22] <OndraSter> :X
[12:20:26] <OndraSter> that is AS6
[12:20:42] <OndraSter> tried several times
[12:20:48] <OndraSter> after that error the updater crashes
[12:24:22] <OndraSter> FU.K
[12:24:27] <OndraSter> AS5.1 does the same thng
[12:24:27] <OndraSter> thing
[12:24:55] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, derp, please email me with it and I'll check Monday
[12:25:03] <OndraSter> will do
[12:25:05] <abcminiuser_> What firmware version does it have now?
[12:25:08] <OndraSter> none
[12:25:11] <OndraSter> says unknown
[12:26:01] <OndraSter> actually I have uninstalled 4.19 so it might have broken Jungo USB driver
[12:27:01] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, you can check the jungo driver version in Device Manager
[12:27:18] <OndraSter> I've had already once broken Jungo driver after uninstalling AVR Studio
[12:27:24] <abcminiuser_> But that at least gives me a starting point, I'll downgrade my work dragon to AS4's firmware then try to upgrade it in AS6
[12:28:13] <OndraSter> well it was on latest 7.15 firmware before
[12:28:16] <OndraSter> from AS5.1
[12:29:46] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, okiedokie, whack that in an email and send it to dean_patrick.camera at atmel dot com
[12:30:00] <abcminiuser_> I'll check it out Monday and file a report if it's reproducable
[12:30:04] <OndraSter> if AS4 won't be able to restire it - will do
[12:30:07] * abcminiuser_ dinner, back in 20
[12:30:12] <OndraSter> restore*
[12:30:27] <abcminiuser_> ^ Please do it anyway, if it's a problem you won't be the only/first person to see it
[12:30:48] <learningc> abcminiuser_: lucky bastard :)
[12:34:24] <OndraSter> hah
[12:34:28] <OndraSter> AS4 is uploading firmware
[12:34:33] <OndraSter> second firmware...
[12:34:44] <OndraSter> successful
[12:34:46] <OndraSter> now let's see
[12:35:01] <OndraSter> let's install AS6 again
[12:35:10] <OndraSter> but I bet it was because I installed AS6 and then uninstalled AS4.19
[12:40:04] <OndraSter> nope
[12:40:06] <OndraSter> same thing happened
[12:40:27] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, should I email that just to you or to avr@atmel and CC you?
[12:41:09] <OndraSter> that's weird
[12:41:44] <OndraSter> running the update again after failure and... it works :o)
[12:45:49] <learningc> congrats!
[12:50:08] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, both I guess
[12:50:13] <OndraSter> okay
[12:50:26] <abcminiuser_> Or better, email avr@atmel.com and just ask for me to respond
[12:50:27] <OndraSter> sent
[12:50:33] <OndraSter> I CCed you
[12:50:37] <abcminiuser_> Ah that'll work too
[12:50:47] <abcminiuser_> learningc, thanks :)
[12:50:51] <abcminiuser_> LOVE it here
[12:50:59] <abcminiuser_> Atmel have free waffles on Fridays
[12:51:09] <OndraSter> :D
[12:51:37] <OndraSter> btw is it normal that the mega128a on AVR Dragon gets ridiculously hot? I can keep my finger on it, but it is seriously hot
[12:53:50] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, err no
[12:53:57] <abcminiuser_> That sounds very bad
[12:53:57] <learningc> abcminiuser_: I think I'm gonna order a jtagice 3. Is there a way to get a coupon from you?
[12:54:00] <OndraSter> it happens _only_ when I am not debugging
[12:54:03] <OndraSter> when I am debugging it is fine
[12:54:09] <OndraSter> or something like that
[12:54:11] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, what connections to the chip have you got?
[12:54:24] <abcminiuser_> learningc, sadly no :( I'm not in charge of that
[12:54:31] <abcminiuser_> learningc, hang on a sec
[12:54:34] <OndraSter> what what connections? Just the USB to the PC
[12:54:42] <learningc> abcminiuser_: ok :)
[12:55:51] <OndraSter> but once I, not sure whether connecting just to some target or whether I have to launch the debug itself, does the trick
[12:56:01] <OndraSter> I do not have any board I could test it on here right now
[12:56:46] <abcminiuser_> learningc, darn, I seem to remember getting an email at some point that mentioned a coupon
[12:56:50] <abcminiuser_> Perhaps not, can't find it
[12:57:16] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, I meant to the MEGA128, I'd need to know all the connections to the device on all pins
[12:57:25] <OndraSter> it is the mega128 on the Dragon
[12:57:27] <learningc> abcminiuser_: ok, I'll wait a bit, maybe you can get me a coupon sometime later :)
[12:58:37] <abcminiuser_> learningc, email me :P and I'll ask on Monday if the training team is in (they should have codes)
[12:58:48] <learningc> cool!
[12:58:53] <abcminiuser_> Can't guarantee they'll be around and/or if they'll be allowed to give me one, but can't hurt to ask
[12:58:56] <learningc> abcminiuser_: what's your address?
[12:59:14] <abcminiuser_> learningc, dean_patrick.camera at atmel dot com
[12:59:32] <abcminiuser_> Who knows, perhaps they'll have a spare one
[12:59:36] <abcminiuser_> If not, nothing lost
[13:03:13] <learningc> abcminiuser_: ok, sent :)
[13:04:43] <abcminiuser_> learningc, great, will follow up Monday
[13:04:48] <abcminiuser_> Can't promise anything
[13:05:07] <abcminiuser_> But I'm friends with the training team, who should be in control of a large number of coupons for the FAE trainings
[13:05:15] <learningc> ok, thanks, and yes I understand it's not guaranteed :)
[13:05:27] <abcminiuser_> Oh god AVR32 noooooo
[13:05:45] <learningc> what??
[13:16:16] <abcminiuser_> learningc, I love AVR8s, not so much AVR32s :P
[13:19:06] <OndraSter> why you don't like avr32? :)
[13:19:43] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, because I have to support the *&%^(ing buggy things :P
[13:19:57] <OndraSter> :D
[13:20:13] <learningc> abcminiuser_: oh, avr32 is buggy??
[13:20:30] <abcminiuser_> learningc, the core is fine
[13:20:43] <abcminiuser_> The peripherals have more quirks than actual functions
[13:20:50] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, huh, I have received three emails from avr@atmel.com as an immediate reply lol
[13:20:52] <abcminiuser_> But if you can work around that they're fine
[13:20:56] <learningc> ohhh :o
[13:21:19] <learningc> OndraSter: for what?
[13:21:26] <OndraSter> for that bug report
[13:22:35] <learningc> on an avr32?
[13:22:56] <OndraSter> no
[13:22:59] <OndraSter> that firmware upgrade on Dragon
[13:24:49] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, wait, the auto response, or an actual support response?
[13:24:55] <OndraSter> auto response
[13:25:01] <OndraSter> actual support response would be quite cool :D
[13:27:32] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, indeed, but it's the weekend :P
[13:27:59] <OndraSter> hmm really? I didn't notice, I am at home for past week :)
[13:28:00] <OndraSter> doing nothing
[13:28:07] <OndraSter> well, doing something, but nothing for school as I should be
[15:11:48] <tomatto_> can i reset avr with 0.5V level?
[15:15:05] <vsync_> hmh
[15:16:03] <learningc> tomatto_: check the datasheet for vil
[15:16:30] <vsync_> i need to build a lightweight small circuit... I'd need two inputs, something around +3.3 V and a second input between +4.8 V - 6 V
[15:18:13] <vsync_> I want to use batteries that are easily available. Now is the best thing to use a 9 V with 7805 and for the 3.3 V input just hook 3 power diodes to get around 2.9 V?
[15:19:03] <vsync_> cause 2.9 is enough for the 2nd input for me
[15:19:18] <specing> vsync_: get a 3.7V Li-ion
[15:19:57] <learningc> it's a lot of wate to drop from 9 to 5 and from 9 to 2.9 :/
[15:20:00] <learningc> waste
[15:20:03] <vsync_> I know
[15:20:34] <specing> vsync_: 3 rechargable AAAs would do it aswell
[15:20:40] <learningc> use 2 buck converter or a buck converter and a regular regulator
[15:20:41] <specing> 3 * 1.2 = 3.6
[15:20:50] <vsync_> though what I'm considering is to drop it to 9->5 witht he 7805 and then hook the power diodes after that
[15:21:35] <learningc> vsync_: you will waste half the capacity in heat
[15:21:36] <vsync_> specing yeah but I'd like to drive both inputs from the same battery
[15:22:01] <vsync_> yep I know. easiest solution would be to use a 6 V batt but they aren't really easily available over here
[15:22:25] <OndraSter> 3v7 one + DC-DC?
[15:22:37] <OndraSter> and 3v3 LDO for the 3v3 part
[15:23:07] <OndraSter> those 3v7 18650 type are quite cool
[15:23:17] <OndraSter> they have fairly big capacity
[15:23:24] <OndraSter> laptops use them :)
[15:23:55] <vsync_> If i'll use 3.7 I'll go with lipoly rather
[15:27:41] <vsync_> It's kind of annoying. I only need the higher voltage input for a servo. Now I could drive it with 3.7 V straight, but I don't have a clue on how it will perform
[15:27:55] <vsync_> it's rated at 4.8 V min.
[15:53:11] <dfletcher> hey all. so I'm looking at the datasheet of tiny40, and the i2c slave line sda is shared with tpidata. would putting an external pull up on the line for i2c mess with the ISP?
[15:53:31] <dfletcher> datasheet is unclear :/
[15:54:47] <dfletcher> seems like my choice is to use the internal pullup, enable it when starting up in normal (non-ISP) mode.
[15:54:55] <dfletcher> that right?
[16:04:41] <OndraSter> why should it be problem? As long as the programer can pull it down, it is okay
[16:06:12] <dfletcher> I don't know enough about the TPI lines clearly. they're open drain?
[16:06:43] <dfletcher> want to run this tiny at 5v but pull up the i2c to 3v3.
[16:07:02] * dfletcher reads up on ISP programming
[16:13:08] <abcminiuser_> dfletcher, holy crap I thought you got dysentry or something
[16:13:15] <dfletcher> heh hi abcminiuser_
[16:13:32] <dfletcher> no just haven't been hardware hacking for a year or two :(
[16:13:38] <dfletcher> can't afford it, I'm so poor =)
[16:14:02] <dfletcher> still working for Atmel?
[16:14:24] <dfletcher> and working on LUFA? =)
[16:14:29] <abcminiuser_> dfletcher, yes and yes :)
[16:14:34] <dfletcher> heh nice
[16:15:02] <dfletcher> bleh multiple voltage circuits confuse the heck out of me.
[16:15:33] <dfletcher> I think I need to find a uC where I can have a different ADC reference voltage than core. that'd simplify this by a lot.
[16:15:53] <dfletcher> trying to make a little board that has modern power features for projects
[16:16:05] <dfletcher> a lipo batter, charger, and many voltage rails.
[16:16:21] <abcminiuser_> dfletcher, AREF is a seperate pin
[16:16:34] <dfletcher> not on this tiny40 :/
[16:16:47] <abcminiuser_> Use a real AVR :P
[16:16:47] <dfletcher> your choices for vref are: vdd and 1.8v. period.
[16:16:49] <dfletcher> heh
[16:18:08] <dfletcher> I liked the tiny40 because it's like 80cents in quantity ;)
[16:18:20] <dfletcher> it was the main feature.
[16:19:17] <abcminiuser_> :P
[16:31:42] <Toneloc> abcminiuser- sorry to bother you, I hear you work for Atmel- do atmel now refuse microcontroller samples from students?
[16:35:52] <Toneloc> I requested some samples back a few months ago because I wanted to get started with AVR, but nothing happened :(
[16:41:55] <dfletcher> heh of course digikey doesn't have a search for "ADCs with separate VRef" because chips without one are retarded. are all tinys like this?
[16:53:20] <dfletcher> attiny48 0 – "VCC ADC Input Voltage Range; Selectable 1.1V ADC Reference Voltage" oh god they are aren't they
[16:53:52] <dfletcher> Toneloc, abcminiuser_ is a software guy. I doubt he has information about why people don't receive samples ;p
[16:54:36] <dfletcher> just buy some chips and a cheap programmer. or a teensy.
[16:55:17] <dfletcher> I'm poor and even I could find ~30 or so to spend on those.
[16:57:02] <Steffanx> Whaat, the one and only dfletcher is alive?!
[16:57:17] <dfletcher> hihi Steffanx
[16:57:25] <dfletcher> though now I'm known as drgreenthumb.
[16:57:47] <izua_> [dfletcher] (~fletch@heaven.god): fletch
[16:57:52] <izua_> i doubt the alive part
[16:57:56] <izua_> but i hear they have great wifi
[16:57:59] <Steffanx> :)
[17:05:56] <Toneloc> dfletcher- I ended up building my own programmer and a friend posted me a ATTINY
[17:06:52] <OndraSter> hmm they had some leftovers in Resident Evil 3 of clones of Mila Jovovich... do you think they put them on ebay? If yes, how much could be "buy now" price? :P
[17:07:09] <drgreenthumb> so my latest crazy project is multi-part. first stage is this crazy power supply with 1.5,1.8,3.3,5,20 volt rails and 3v7 lipo battery, charging circuitry (esp USB), power monitoring over i2c.
[17:07:09] * abcminiuser_ back
[17:07:26] <abcminiuser_> Toneloc, Atmel isn't all that sample friendly, anecdotally
[17:07:34] <abcminiuser_> Frankly I wouldn't bother trying
[17:07:55] <drgreenthumb> second stage is a build-your-own smartphone/psp-like board that uses an ARM (sorry guys :P)
[17:10:51] <drgreenthumb> hmm maybe I just need some kind of special purpose external ADC for this.
[17:10:59] <drgreenthumb> 20v is nasty.
[17:11:20] <Casper> dosen'T sound too bad
[17:11:24] <Casper> just lots of smps
[17:11:55] <drgreenthumb> heh well, can't just stick 20v into an ADC input like the other rails
[17:12:13] <drgreenthumb> and if I divide it then the measurement won't be very good.
[17:12:21] <specing> drgreenthumb: you can, through a /6 resitor network
[17:12:57] <drgreenthumb> then the resistor tolerances totally screw the measurement :P
[17:12:57] <specing> drgreenthumb: 20V lines have a higher +- voltage tolerance
[17:14:36] <Casper> drgreenthumb: if you use an uC for smps, then you do it wrong
[17:14:38] <OndraSter> drgreenthumb, what AVR are you going to choose?
[17:15:23] <drgreenthumb> Casper, what's an smp. I just want to monitor voltage here.
[17:15:25] <Toneloc> abcminiuser_ yeha, I have read that, TI have been great about samples- makes them great for development and project work. Only thing is the user community and materials arent as good
[17:15:31] <Toneloc> but they are comming along
[17:15:35] <Casper> oh just monitor
[17:15:37] <Casper> then no prob
[17:15:46] <specing> I've made a SMPS with an AVR
[17:15:48] <abcminiuser_> Toneloc, yup, lack of sample is one disappointing area
[17:16:04] <drgreenthumb> heh even the standalone ADC ICs on digikey can't handle 20v
[17:16:13] <specing> Im going to migrate to analog after school ends
[17:16:14] <drgreenthumb> +-15 is the biggest one
[17:16:16] <OndraSter> time to buy .1% precision resistors
[17:16:21] <specing> ADC is too slow
[17:16:53] <Toneloc> abcminiuser_ I would totally move over to AVR if they came on board with samples
[17:16:58] <drgreenthumb> this thing just needs to wake on i2c slave start condition, take reading(s) and go back to sleep OndraSter. so hopefully some small AVR.
[17:17:11] <Toneloc> it just makes things so much easier when starting out
[17:17:12] <OndraSter> yeah, I thought you wanted even control, not just monitor :)
[17:17:56] <OndraSter> I was thinking how to control output voltage of square/triangle/sine from some DDS. The triangle and sine have the option to set output current and thus setting output voltage, but that is not possible on square wave. That's where I came to xmega's DAC + differential amplifier :)
[17:18:31] <OndraSter> amplify them (all the possible waveforms) into, let's say 2.5V and then using xmega's DAC control the "substraction" of the differential amp
[17:18:31] <Toneloc> abcminiuser_ I see it as just a barrier to entry, More and more people seem to be adopting MSP430 now, but Microchip are also good about samples I hear
[17:18:42] <OndraSter> and then do final amplification by set factor
[17:19:13] <OndraSter> xmega256a3u has, for me, unbeatable price point. $5.10/1pcs, with 10 pcs we are below $5 I think...
[17:19:36] <OndraSter> 256kB flash, 16kB RAM, 7 USARTs, 3 SPI (plus USARTS can work as SPIs), 7 or 8 timers (16bit)
[17:19:37] <OndraSter> USB
[17:19:39] <OndraSter> everything!
[17:19:42] <OndraSter> except ethernet :P
[17:20:12] <OndraSter> 2x 8channel ADC 12bit 1MSPS (2MSPS?) + 1x 2channel DAC 12bit 1MSPS
[17:20:23] <OndraSter> AWEX, ...
[17:20:31] <Toneloc> I checked last night, and was surpised to see that I could buy 10 ATTINY2313 for 19.10 cents from farnell
[17:20:31] <OndraSter> seriously, that xmega is killer IMHO
[17:20:43] <OndraSter> that's quite a lot
[17:20:45] <OndraSter> check mouser
[17:21:06] <OndraSter> $17.20 for 10pcs
[17:21:07] <OndraSter> on mouser
[17:21:20] <OndraSter> actually
[17:21:26] <OndraSter> $8.99 :)
[17:21:38] <Toneloc> farnell>>
[17:21:40] <Toneloc> 1 - 9 €3.58
[17:21:50] <Toneloc> 10 - 99 €1.91
[17:21:58] <OndraSter> http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATTINY2313A-SU/?qs=%2fqzd9s%252bcLd6Lf1hpKhFTKlucd0HOvh4ZMZNckRpVtrc%3d
[17:22:05] <Toneloc> that extra one makes it heck of a lot cheaper:P
[17:22:24] <OndraSter> 1: $0.93
[17:22:24] <OndraSter> 10: $0.899
[17:22:32] <Toneloc> ^^0.0
[17:22:36] <Toneloc> man that is cheap
[17:22:39] <OndraSter> yep
[17:22:43] <Toneloc> DIP ?
[17:22:44] <OndraSter> farnell is super expensive
[17:22:52] <OndraSter> no
[17:22:54] <Toneloc> ah!
[17:22:57] <OndraSter> open the link
[17:22:58] <abcminiuser_> Yeah, XMEGAs are everything I always wanted
[17:23:03] <Toneloc> mine are DIP
[17:23:08] <OndraSter> DIP:
[17:23:08] <OndraSter> 1: $1.02
[17:23:08] <OndraSter> 10: $1.01
[17:23:18] <abcminiuser_> Powerful and cheap, a pity they had a bad start which kept peopke on MEGA devices
[17:23:42] <drgreenthumb> this ARM I'm looking at has an onboard GPU and support for 3 LCDs :P
[17:23:50] <OndraSter> $100?
[17:23:55] <OndraSter> per 10000 pcs
[17:24:07] <drgreenthumb> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/MCIMX31CJKN5D/MCIMX31CJKN5D-ND/2186078
[17:24:10] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, is it just me, or is USB... fairly complicated from homebrew's POV?
[17:24:25] <drgreenthumb> that's why he made LUFA!
[17:24:26] <OndraSter> not bad, drgreenthumb
[17:24:30] <drgreenthumb> to demistify it.
[17:24:31] <OndraSter> I know, drgreenthumb :)
[17:24:51] <Toneloc> 13.70 for 10 on mouser
[17:24:56] <Toneloc> thats a good difference
[17:24:57] <specing> drgreenthumb: 32$ for a small 500MHZ arm? you nuts?
[17:25:09] <Toneloc> but I probably have to spend 70 euro for free shipping
[17:25:16] <OndraSter> lucky you
[17:25:21] <OndraSter> I have to do 150€ :D
[17:25:24] <drgreenthumb> specing, onboard GPU!!
[17:25:49] <Toneloc> oh!
[17:26:25] <drgreenthumb> I'll never solder these though. it'd have to be manufactured.
[17:27:10] <OndraSter> BGA: Bitch, gimme autogen!
[17:27:18] <OndraSter> (does America know autogen?)
[17:27:22] <specing> drgreenthumb: So?
[17:27:35] <drgreenthumb> so I could barely handle tqfp32 :P
[17:27:35] <OndraSter> specing, try making it home prototype :P
[17:27:44] <specing> drgreenthumb: join ##arm-netbook
[17:28:00] <specing> drgreenthumb: and check out topic
[17:28:08] <Toneloc> 75+ euro is free delivery for me
[17:28:57] <OndraSter> yeah, lucky country
[17:29:14] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, it's complicated for a reason
[17:29:26] <abcminiuser_> Otherwise it wouldn't be able to do everything :P
[17:29:28] <OndraSter> :D
[17:29:38] <OndraSter> endpoints 'n such
[17:29:48] <OndraSter> I had to read the article many times to understand it at least partially
[17:29:53] <Toneloc> yeah, you are very unlucky
[17:30:01] <Toneloc> we usually are unlucky
[17:30:26] <OndraSter> tell me about that. But I found local "reseller" for mouser, that for no additional costs (just local CZE shipping) resends anything from them to you
[17:30:31] <OndraSter> or you can go pick it up to their office :P
[17:30:45] <OndraSter> that solves even import taxes
[17:31:38] <Toneloc> oh, thats very nice
[17:32:01] <Toneloc> nice not to have to worry about taxes
[17:32:02] <OndraSter> yep
[17:32:16] <Toneloc> I know ic's etc. are supposed ot be except form here
[17:32:25] <Toneloc> *from tx here
[17:32:26] <OndraSter> anything above 22€ = 19 or 20% on top of original price, above 150€ = +another 5% or so
[17:32:29] <Toneloc> *tax
[17:32:45] <Toneloc> yeah 22 euro here too
[17:32:47] <OndraSter> that 22€ comes from new EU laws
[17:32:53] <OndraSter> FRIKKIN EUROPEAN UNION
[17:32:55] <OndraSter> die already! :(
[17:33:00] <Toneloc> its dying!
[17:33:05] <OndraSter> but not fast enough
[17:33:10] <Toneloc> it will break:P
[17:33:13] <OndraSter> I want the parts now and not year from now :P
[17:33:18] <Toneloc> :)
[17:33:29] <Toneloc> when china runs things- it will work ok
[17:33:37] <OndraSter> :D
[17:33:41] <Toneloc> they own us, just dont run us yet
[17:41:00] <drgreenthumb> specing, I still don't see anything that beats 3d hardware+mpeg4 encoder @ 18 bucks (in quantity). how would you do it? go for faster clock speed and do those in software? won't that be harder on batteries?
[17:42:56] <specing> drgreenthumb: the A10 features a 1.2 GHz cortex-a8, a mail400 GPU with tons of hardware codecs and costs $5 in mass volume
[17:44:06] <specing> also the A10 scales down to 60Mhz for power saving
[17:50:48] <drgreenthumb> this does look cool, thanks specing.
[17:51:08] <drgreenthumb> stupid digikey has a very narrow view of what's available.
[17:52:18] <drgreenthumb> heh sheesh this thing needs even more power rails than I was planning originally.
[18:25:05] <sirdancealot2> is there a way to get avrdude to hold reset high while programming my arduino on a breadboard contraption?
[18:25:13] <sirdancealot2> as in, -c arduino
[18:25:24] <sirdancealot2> over serial
[18:29:27] <OndraSter> ??
[18:29:34] <OndraSter> reset is tied high through 10k resistor
[18:32:55] <sirdancealot2> well, its not a real arduino, just an atmega and a crystal
[18:33:10] <sirdancealot2> but it has the bootloader
[18:33:49] <sirdancealot2> but no cap:) so while avrdude holds dtr low, the bootloader never gets the chance to run:)
[18:35:36] <sirdancealot2> or thats my understanding
[19:04:01] <vectory_> you wanna use the arduino ide with arduino bootloader, no?
[19:05:59] <sirdancealot2> no
[19:15:12] <sirdancealot2> mkay, everything soldered, lets hope at least this works
[19:15:57] <Casper> POOF!
[19:17:45] <OndraSter> WHO LET THE SMOKE OUT
[19:17:50] <OndraSter> :P
[19:18:06] <OndraSter> anyway, 0207
[19:18:10] <OndraSter> getting up in a few minuets
[19:18:12] <OndraSter> minutes
[19:18:12] <OndraSter> gn
[19:19:01] <specing> OndraSter: 0207 is a bit small, isn't it?
[19:19:11] <sirdancealot2> it works:(
[19:19:15] <specing> Oh, he was talking about the time
[19:21:36] <Casper> who who who who
[20:39:25] <drgreenthumb> that's a neat PDF
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1593N.pdf
[20:40:00] <drgreenthumb> I'm sitting here playing with the 3d thingy =)
[20:40:16] <drgreenthumb> best manufacturer drawing ever? I think it must be.
[20:50:18] <Tom_itx> they have good part files
[20:53:26] <Tom_itx> btw they sent me free samples of that one and a couple others
[20:54:15] <drgreenthumb> hey Tom_itx
[20:54:30] <dfletcher> I think I still owe you a bumble-b :(
[20:54:36] <Tom_itx> nope
[20:54:45] <dfletcher> no? I sent it?! good =)
[20:55:06] <Tom_itx> i like those hammond cases
[20:55:30] <dfletcher> does your programmer work with attiny btw? I thought it did but can't remember.
[20:55:39] <Tom_itx> yup
[20:55:41] <dfletcher> sweet
[20:55:58] <Tom_itx> all the current 8 bit parts i believe
[20:56:21] <Tom_itx> xmega, avr8 and attiny 4 5 9 10 - 6 pin parts
[20:56:28] <dfletcher> yeah the case is neat. the inlay is pretty close to the LCD size I was looking at
[20:56:45] <dfletcher> wonder if they'll cut them for me.
[20:56:52] <Tom_itx> for a price they will
[20:56:55] <Tom_itx> i asked them
[20:56:58] <dfletcher> ah, nice
[20:56:59] <Tom_itx> but i cut my own
[20:57:06] <dfletcher> what tools did you use?
[20:57:11] <dfletcher> hacksaw? :P
[20:57:19] <Tom_itx> oh hell no
[20:57:23] <dfletcher> jk
[20:57:33] <dfletcher> maybe a laser cutter.
[20:57:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling2.jpg
[20:58:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/box_batch.jpg
[20:59:06] <Tom_itx> just my little cnc
[20:59:32] <dfletcher> very nice
[20:59:58] <Tom_itx> then i silkscreened the lids
[21:00:26] <dfletcher> fancy
[21:00:27] <Tom_itx> with uv paint
[21:00:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch.jpg
[21:01:11] <dfletcher> wow looks great
[21:01:26] <dfletcher> lufa powered!
[21:01:28] <dfletcher> :)
[21:01:35] <Tom_itx> hell ya
[21:01:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTinyMkII_Blue.jpg
[21:02:40] <Tom_itx> the hammond cases made it a nice little finished product
[21:04:59] <dfletcher> I like my open spaceship shaped board version ;)
[21:05:30] <dfletcher> that's amazing that you can produce that whole thing though. nice work.
[21:06:05] <Tom_itx> thanks
[21:06:11] <Tom_itx> not sure if it's worth it
[21:06:31] <dfletcher> heh yeah I think my next venture will have to be funded. and mostly produced in China ;)
[21:06:52] <dfletcher> hoping if I make pretty enough pictures and a nice business plan to get some kickstart fundage.
[21:08:03] <Tom_itx> hope it works
[21:10:01] <dfletcher> thanks. I think there's a chance. the popularity of Raspberry Pi shows there is a market for similar hobby gadgets.
[21:10:31] <Tom_itx> alot of marketing i think
