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[00:18:30] <CapnKernel> Grievre: There is no 8-bit AVR chip in PDIP that offers USB in hardware. There are several in TQFP.
[00:19:00] <CapnKernel> (It's also possible to do USB in software)
[00:28:45] <grievar> CapnKernel: Wouldn't doing USB in software eat up a significant proportion of your clock cycles?
[03:35:52] <CapnKernel> I have my ticket back to China! :-)
[03:37:56] <OndraSter> CONGRATS!
[03:37:57] <OndraSter> :)
[03:38:03] <OndraSter> did you get your visa solved?
[03:39:46] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, I would like to ask you, if you can get also some parts from Analog Devices, when you get back to Shenzen. (Originals preferably lol.) Digikey wants $5 for part worth of $2, and ADI themselves sell only 100+ pieces :X
[03:40:46] <CapnKernel> I had to buy another visa here in Australia, but at least I didn't have to change my passport.
[03:41:27] <CapnKernel> Yes I'd love to help you with the AD parts.
[03:41:30] <CapnKernel> I'll PM you
[05:33:55] <OndraSter> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
[07:22:28] <OndraSter> http://cz.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=j12q4iUN963tgVnLBX4aNA%3d%3d
[07:22:30] <OndraSter> look what I have found
[07:22:35] <OndraSter> USB->2xUART for $2.17
[07:23:45] <specing> OndraSter: do you get prices in dollars there?
[07:23:51] <OndraSter> I enabled USD
[07:23:53] <OndraSter> instead of euros
[07:24:44] <alexh> for that price you can get a microcontroller with USB
[07:24:46] <desaster> too bad for the 40e delivery charge :(
[07:25:03] <specing> lol
[07:25:05] <OndraSter> alexh, $2.20 for micro with USB?
[07:25:08] <alexh> not atmel, though
[07:25:11] <OndraSter> yep
[07:25:17] <OndraSter> not atmel :)
[07:25:24] <OndraSter> but that xmega256a3u for $5.10
[07:25:27] <OndraSter> is ...
[07:25:28] <OndraSter> <3
[07:25:35] <OndraSter> just if it had EBI :)
[07:25:38] <alexh> a PIC18F14K50, e.g.
[07:25:38] <OndraSter> and ethernet
[07:25:39] <OndraSter> and..
[07:26:02] <CapnKernel> a pony!
[07:26:05] <OndraSter> yeah
[07:26:06] <OndraSter> a pony!
[07:26:28] <desaster> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260993299058
[07:28:12] <mrfrenzy> what kind of drivers do you need to get a serial port from such a chip?
[07:28:20] <mrfrenzy> can they be found, certified, in winupdate?
[09:31:16] <OndraSter> mrfrenzy, most certainly ye
[09:31:17] <OndraSter> s
[09:31:23] <OndraSter> not sure whether they are in winupdate, but on their site most often
[09:31:32] <OndraSter> not sure how come that FTDI FT232 has WHQL but they are not on WU
[09:52:24] <Remowylliams> Hello everyone, are there any arduino emulators that run on Linux currently?
[09:54:00] <specing> Remowylliams: #arduino
[09:55:08] <Remowylliams> specing: what is the difference? is there an avr emulator that runs on linux that will run current avrs?
[09:55:18] <specing> Yes, simavr
[09:57:25] <rzc> hi foks
[09:57:28] <rzc> folks
[10:23:45] <Remowylliams> specing: thanks for the info.
[10:26:41] <gkwhc1> might anyone have experience with DMA & DAC on ARMs? im trying to play a wave file, but the sound is really flat.. also, the scope is displaying something like
http://www.stancourtney.com/photo/illinoishowl_waveform.jpg, with a no sound interval & then an audio interval (ie not continuous waveform)
[10:41:18] <specing> gkwhc1: Maybe ##stm32, ##arm, ##armlinux, ...?
[10:42:44] <gkwhc1> specing: oh thanks! i wasnt aware theres ##arm
[10:43:45] <DrLuke> Hey, can anyone help me with choosing an AVR for my next project? I need one that is similar to the atmega168, but has a complete port available, as in PB0 to PB7 completely free without anything like reset or XTAL connected to it.
[10:43:53] <DrLuke> also in DIP format please
[10:45:03] <specing> DrLuke: There is a neat little MCU picker on atmel's webpage
[10:45:23] <DrLuke> ok
[10:45:26] <DrLuke> thanks
[10:46:42] <DrLuke> I just found 2 bags with ATMega16s in them in my cupboard, just what I need :)
[12:10:29] <OndraSter> hah, one person that was using PICs got pissed on them because he needed special cable because they put ICSP onto USB pins (or something like that)
[12:10:40] <OndraSter> also their demo boards are like 100+ eur
[12:10:40] <OndraSter> http://de.farnell.com/microchip/dm163029/demo-kit-picdem-mechatronik/dp/1112782?Ntt=picdem+mechatronics
[12:10:52] <OndraSter> I checked xplained boards... about $29 - $39 for top end ones
[12:10:53] <OndraSter> :o)
[12:29:58] <specing> OndraSter: lol
[12:38:45] <budwaa> Hi, does the AVR compiler use Row Major for multi dimension array layout?
[12:39:20] <Steffanx> abcminiuser where aaare you?
[12:45:46] <specing> In some ATMEL basement, programming atxmega-a5s!!
[12:46:08] <OndraSter> s?
[12:46:10] <OndraSter> super?
[12:46:16] <Steffanx> sexy
[12:53:38] <IndianaRonaldo> I do robotics as a hobby, but I find so difficult to understand all these technical terms you guys use and I end up googling. So how does one get the technical expertise in robotics?
[12:55:03] <Steffanx> Robotics .. the electronics part? Software/microcontroller part? Or perhaps the mechanics?
[12:55:26] <IndianaRonaldo> the electronics. I'm really good at the software part. It's the electronics that's so depressing
[12:55:32] <specing> Well
[12:55:41] <specing> you can join ##electronics
[12:55:45] <Steffanx> Don't :P
[12:55:47] <OndraSter> you can
[12:55:49] <OndraSter> :
[12:55:50] <specing> BUT DISCLAIMER: don't
[12:55:50] <OndraSter> :)
[12:55:52] <OndraSter> yep
[12:56:02] <OndraSter> is it really that bad there? :D
[12:56:10] <Steffanx> Not as bad as ##c
[12:56:12] <IndianaRonaldo> guys, how does me joining a channel help me in this?
[12:56:16] <OndraSter> lol##c
[12:56:24] <OndraSter> IndianaRonaldo, /join ##electronics
[12:56:28] <OndraSter> simple as that
[12:56:41] <IndianaRonaldo> no..i mean how does that help me
[12:56:50] <Steffanx> Or in fancy clients you can click on the channel name
[12:57:03] <specing> IndianaRonaldo: seeing/hearing what other people do is quite helpfull
[12:57:28] <IndianaRonaldo> hmm...so u guys are electronics majors?
[12:57:38] <IndianaRonaldo> what do you guys study?
[12:57:43] <specing> Nope, Im still in highschool
[12:57:48] <IndianaRonaldo> Damn,.
[12:57:52] <IndianaRonaldo> really?
[12:57:52] <specing> lol
[12:57:54] <IndianaRonaldo> wow
[12:57:54] <specing> yes
[12:58:06] <IndianaRonaldo> way 2 go...
[12:58:11] <vsync_> IndianaRonaldo that's the common thing nowadays :D haha... It's why there's so much bench engineering...
[12:58:28] <IndianaRonaldo> appaerntly...:D
[12:58:28] <specing> It all started back then when I was <10 years old : Rocks'n'diamonds on Suse Linux 6
[12:58:29] <vsync_> "I really can write some code but i'm a total virgin when it comes to electronics"
[12:58:36] <vsync_> ...
[12:58:43] <IndianaRonaldo> Rocks'n diamonds?
[12:58:46] <IndianaRonaldo> is that a game?
[12:58:49] <specing> google it
[12:58:51] <specing> yeah
[12:58:54] <IndianaRonaldo> hmmm
[12:59:09] <vsync_> I find it hard to understand how are you doing robotics as a hobby if you don't understand anything about electronics
[12:59:09] <IndianaRonaldo> what kinda robots do you make?
[12:59:18] <IndianaRonaldo> I mostly do the programming
[12:59:23] <specing> Terminators
[12:59:24] <IndianaRonaldo> I'm really, really good at that
[12:59:29] <IndianaRonaldo> terminators?
[12:59:31] <vsync_> :D
[12:59:38] <vsync_> IndianaRonaldo a lot of people are, actually
[12:59:41] <specing> They walk around my house shooting visitors
[12:59:47] <IndianaRonaldo> dude..
[12:59:52] <specing> What?
[12:59:58] <IndianaRonaldo> I'm serious man
[13:00:11] <specing> #avr is not
[13:00:20] <vsync_> it's like, IndianaRonaldo can write robots that can ping localhost
[13:00:21] <vsync_> apparently
[13:00:25] <vsync_> top feature
[13:00:28] <specing> haha
[13:00:37] <IndianaRonaldo> :-p
[13:01:07] <Steffanx> There are some only courses about the basics of electronics
[13:01:07] <IndianaRonaldo> alright now, dont you question my programming skills
[13:01:16] <Steffanx> MIT has no free electronics 101 course?
[13:01:19] <specing> Oh we will
[13:01:24] <Steffanx> and maybe some more advanced courses?
[13:01:26] <IndianaRonaldo> Well, I did take a basic electronics course.
[13:01:33] <IndianaRonaldo> Nah, didn't help much
[13:01:36] <IndianaRonaldo> yea, maybe
[13:01:44] <IndianaRonaldo> any ideas where?
[13:01:50] <Steffanx> Sometimes times its just trial and error
[13:01:53] <Steffanx> :P
[13:02:06] <Steffanx> Just get the magic smoke out
[13:02:45] <Steffanx> And try to look at some basic schematics and try to figure out how they work
[13:03:14] <specing> Remember that song, "Who let the dogs out, ..."
[13:03:31] <specing> We have: Who let the smoke out,...
[13:03:43] <OndraSter> hu huhuhuhu
[13:03:47] <IndianaRonaldo> Yea...smoke...who let the weed out, more like
[13:03:47] <specing> huhuhu
[13:04:44] <Steffanx> They have weed in India IndianaRonaldo ?
[13:04:58] <IndianaRonaldo> You have no idea.
[13:05:20] <Steffanx> No, i don't
[13:05:30] <IndianaRonaldo> Obviously
[13:05:55] <specing> I could use some weed right now
[13:05:58] <specing> Finals...
[13:05:58] <IndianaRonaldo> But then we are not as good as the dutch.
[13:06:15] <Steffanx> 'good'?
[13:06:18] <IndianaRonaldo> Weed don't make you brainy, boy
[13:06:33] <IndianaRonaldo> Yeah, good. Kosher, whatever
[13:06:37] <Steffanx> You even need a special card to get weed nowadays in some cities, her in dutchland
[13:06:49] <Steffanx> So no coffeeshops for non-dutchies anymore :P
[13:06:57] <Steffanx> *here
[13:07:33] <specing> Oh so thats why Steffanx is acting weird all the time :P
[13:07:41] <Steffanx> Sure
[13:07:59] <IndianaRonaldo> Since when does weed make you weird?
[13:08:18] <IndianaRonaldo> Weed is just...weed. It just makes you normal.
[13:08:36] <Steffanx> Since they started smoking it?
[13:08:58] <IndianaRonaldo> nope. Weed never made anybody weird
[13:09:09] <Steffanx> I'm pretty sure it did
[13:09:17] <Steffanx> Stoned == weird
[13:09:21] <IndianaRonaldo> It might make you a little less weird
[13:09:27] <IndianaRonaldo> relatviely
[13:09:46] <Steffanx> Or is everyone in India 'weird' ? :P
[13:10:06] <IndianaRonaldo> Not as much as the swedish
[13:14:48] <specing> Somebody is bruteforcing my server's SSH again...
[13:15:19] <Kevin`> so?
[13:15:25] <Kevin`> they do that to everyone
[13:15:32] <specing> :/
[13:16:01] <Casper> specing: there is a project for that
[13:16:09] <specing> They are taking a hellufa time for a 6-char password
[13:16:12] <Casper> after a few invalid login they firewall the address
[13:16:17] <Kevin`> if you want to have some fun, write a firewall rule that will redirect the connections to another host after a few attempts, that is set up as a honeypot (only if you REALLY understand security), and collect all the interesting tools they install
[13:17:00] <specing> heh
[13:17:13] <Casper> or just use a non-standard port
[13:17:16] <Kevin`> specing:
[13:17:17] <Kevin`> (26+10)^6/3/60/60/24/365
[13:17:17] <Kevin`> 23.0084383561
[13:17:51] <Kevin`> they use wordlists, not bruteforce, bruteforce is impossible
[13:17:53] <specing> [a-zA-Z0-9] is a little more than that
[13:18:29] <specing> Well I still have to see how I can make ssh print to syslog the attempted word
[13:18:45] <Kevin`> hence, if you set up a honeypot, it needs to either use common words to work, or just not require a password at all
[13:18:57] <Steffanx> No password it is :)
[13:19:14] <specing> Maybe I can use my AT91SAM box for that, I bet none of their tools would work ;P
[13:19:28] <Kevin`> specing: actually that's probably easier to do at the pam level. add one .so file and a config file line
[13:19:29] <Steffanx> Go for it
[13:19:54] <specing> I'll do that during the summer holidays
[13:19:55] <Casper> or set up your box so it redirect the packets to fbi.gov with source ip of the attacker
[13:19:57] <specing> Finals....
[13:20:10] <Kevin`> most isps will filter the source ip
[13:20:15] <Steffanx> So why you are even here specing ?
[13:20:27] <Kevin`> also that would break the connection if it worked
[13:20:29] <specing> the art of procrastinating
[13:20:44] <Steffanx> Aah, good .. that's really good
[13:20:54] <specing> iptables -j REDIRECT
[13:20:54] <Steffanx> procrastinating :D
[13:23:31] <specing> iptables -j PROCRAST
[13:33:36] <Tom_itx> see how helpful we've been?
[13:33:53] <Steffanx> We?
[13:33:54] <Tom_itx> scroll bit my ass on that one
[13:45:02] <OndraSter> specing, ip2ban :)
[13:45:06] <OndraSter> or was it fail2ban?
[13:45:09] <OndraSter> yeah, f2b
[15:56:17] <amee2k> what do linear regulator datasheets typically call the dropout voltage in the characteristics tables?
[15:57:10] <alexh> dropout voltage, surprisingly enough.
[15:57:19] <amee2k> okay
[15:57:28] <specing> lol
[15:57:33] <amee2k> i'm trying to find the official spec in my 317 datasheets but can't find any
[15:57:45] <Casper> for most it's 2V
[15:58:12] <alexh> that is a completely random number
[15:58:13] <amee2k> i've got something like two to three diode drops in mind for practical purposes, but i want a confirmation of that so i don't quote anything wrong
[16:00:12] <Casper> amee2k: onsemi list it in one of the graph
[16:00:29] <amee2k> a graph? o.O
[16:00:34] <Casper> it's temperature and voltage dependant
[16:00:36] <alexh> any reason why you'd use such an ancient device anyway?
[16:00:36] <Casper> err
[16:00:38] <Casper> temp and current
[16:00:58] <amee2k> because it is dirt cheap, readily available and does the job
[16:01:00] <Casper> and it's bellow 2.5V
[16:01:03] <amee2k> anything wrong with that?
[16:01:25] <Casper> wastefull, but if that waste is acceptable, why not?
[16:01:26] <alexh> plenty of others that are dirt cheap, readily available and do the job. depends on your other requirements
[16:01:31] <amee2k> it has also proven to be very reliable for me so far
[16:03:55] <Casper> alexh: name some other if you're so smart
[16:04:06] <alexh> LM1117 comes to mind
[16:04:22] <alexh> there are a zillion others though that you can find through parametric searches
[16:04:53] <Casper> less current, but LDO...
[16:04:55] <alexh> it's not about being smart anyway
[16:05:03] <alexh> LM1117 is hardly "LDO"
[16:05:07] <alexh> 1.2V dropout or so
[16:05:43] <Casper> still over 1V less than 317
[16:06:07] <alexh> yes
[16:06:14] <alexh> which is why I'm pointing out that the LM317 is outdated
[16:06:24] <Casper> still do the job
[16:06:28] <alexh> sure does
[16:06:34] <alexh> as I said, it depends on all your other requirements
[16:06:52] <alexh> other than price, availability and reliablity
[16:07:28] <amee2k> hmm looks like 1117 has a 3.3V reference
[16:08:07] <amee2k> oh, or not
[16:08:24] <Casper> but 1117 also need huge capacitor on the output vs 317
[16:08:24] <amee2k> could it be that there are several different voltages sold under the same type number? o.O
[16:09:03] <alexh> yes
[16:09:13] <alexh> an adjustable version and several different fixed value
[16:09:47] <Casper> the 1117 do not impress me, you gain in dropout, but lose on output cap and current
[16:10:09] <alexh> don't get hung up on the 1117, was just the first one that came to mind
[16:10:16] <Casper> food time, bbl
[16:10:19] <alexh> there are plenty of others - and it all depends on your requirements
[16:10:24] <amee2k> what is the difference between adjustable and fixed anyway?
[16:10:27] <alexh> also, the output cap can be whatever is suitable for your application
[16:10:30] <alexh> same for the LM317
[16:10:35] <amee2k> can't you make them all adjustable with a voltage divider?
[16:10:41] <alexh> ...
[16:10:50] <alexh> not if you want it to be stable, independently of the load
[16:11:22] <alexh> the adjustable versions effectively work using a resistive potential divider, but only to set a reference point
[16:12:20] <amee2k> elaborate
[16:13:05] <alexh> they have a set pin and a reference output
[16:13:26] <alexh> depending on the voltage of the set pin, that you can vary using a resistive divider based on the reference voltage, it'll change the actual output voltage
[16:13:38] <alexh> the reference voltage is normally internally generated from a bandgap reference
[16:14:08] <amee2k> i know how they work. but what does that have to do with stability?
[16:14:53] <alexh> if you use a resistive divider on the output then the output voltage depends on the load impedance
[16:14:59] <alexh> which is quite a bad idea
[16:15:56] <amee2k> how that?
[16:16:19] <alexh> how what?
[16:16:30] <alexh> how the load impedance affects a resistive divider? seriously?
[16:16:44] <alexh> that's pretty much electronics 101
[16:17:27] <amee2k> the adjust/reference/ground pin is high impedance
[16:17:45] <alexh> which is why you use that
[16:17:47] <amee2k> or does the load somehow change the bias current on the adjust pin
[16:18:28] <alexh> if you use an adjustable version of a linear regulator, then the load doesn't really affect the bias voltage, and hence the output voltage is theoretically (up to a point) independent of the load impednace
[16:18:44] <alexh> if you do what you suggested of just making an adjustable version by putting a voltage divider in front of it, that's not the case
[16:19:30] <amee2k> how is the bias current on the adjust pins different between adjustable and fixed regulators
[16:19:54] <amee2k> do the fixed ones just have a built in divider that results in high bias current on the ground pin or something?
[16:20:17] <alexh> the fixed ones are fixed, don't have an adjust pin and don't expose the internal voltage reference
[16:20:36] <amee2k> they have the ground pin which pretty much does the same thing
[16:21:14] <alexh> it doesn't do pretty much the same thing, it all depends on the inner architecture
[16:21:24] <Kevin`> you can use a fixed voltage regulator as an adjustable voltage regulator
[16:22:06] <Kevin`> with some limitations of course, because of the high reference voltage
[16:22:51] <Kevin`> just use it like you'd use an lm317
[16:23:03] <amee2k> yeah, thats what i meant
[16:26:03] <alexh> if you don't give a shit about accuracy, that works, yes
