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[01:19:19] <w|zzy> cant you upload to the xbees over the air?
[01:19:32] <w|zzy> ohh i see.. ignore that
[02:41:56] <jophish> hello! i think i may have a little problem. i was programming a 328p via isp earlier, and may have changed some fuse bits, and now programming with avrdude gives me "avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1". i'm sure i have it wired right, is there any way to reset the fuse bits?
[02:43:43] <Casper> you probably messed up the clock source bits
[02:44:30] <Casper> in this case you will need an external clock source, like another avr with an "insane" led blinker program: basically one with no delay, feed the output to the xtal input (I think it's xtal2)
[02:44:39] <Casper> then try to reprogram
[02:46:14] <jophish> would a 20 mhz crystal work?
[02:49:24] <Kevin`> jophish: maybe, depends how you have the fuses set
[02:49:32] <jophish> hmm
[02:49:54] <jophish> i don't know how they're set, i screwed them up when programming ealier
[02:49:57] <jophish> *earlier
[03:14:59] <jophish> when i go to program it, it sees the device signature as 0x000000, is that related to the clock bit problem?
[03:19:06] <jophish> okay, something different now
[03:19:22] <jophish> i'm using this
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9231 with the switch set to power target
[03:19:45] <jophish> the proto board that i'm working on is ALSO providing power (+5v) to the chip
[03:21:24] <jophish> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15357217/111.png
[03:21:31] <jophish> and that's what i get as a result
[03:36:00] <specing> jophish: I had a USBtinyISP too
[03:36:13] <specing> jophish: mounted on my protoboard ^^
[03:36:24] <jophish> how did you manage to mount it? :O
[03:36:25] <specing> It worked quite well
[03:36:30] <jophish> oh
[03:36:33] <specing> jophish: I built it myself
[03:36:37] <jophish> cool!
[03:36:47] <specing> its just an ATtiny2313 with some logic around it
[03:36:59] <specing> bootstrapped it with DASA
[03:37:03] <jophish> yeah, i'm liking it alot.
[03:37:28] <specing> Im using a AVRISPMKII clone now, which is on its own board
[03:37:41] <specing> CapnKernel: yo
[03:38:07] <jophish> is it possible to lower the speed on the programmer so i can write to the chip? <_<
[03:38:39] <jophish> according to this, i should, right?
[03:38:42] <jophish> but it's not working for me :|
[03:38:46] <jophish> http://www.logikdev.com/2011/02/15/reset-clock-fuse-bits-on-avr/
[03:39:34] <specing> jophish: -B 10
[03:39:38] <specing> to avrdude
[03:40:16] <jophish> initialization failed :|
[03:41:05] <specing> Lol
[03:41:19] <specing> How long are the cables you are using?
[03:42:20] <jophish> i have an 8 inch ribbon cable from the programmer, and then 2 inch wires going from the female header to the chip
[03:42:29] <jophish> i've been able to program it just fine before
[03:42:47] <specing> ah
[03:43:06] <specing> well there must be some condition that has changed since then
[03:43:09] <specing> bb
[03:43:10] <jophish> but i screwed up some clock source / fuse bits
[03:43:16] <jophish> yeah
[03:46:29] <jophish> the led on the protoboard that's just connected to +5v and ground flashes when i try to flash the chip, so the programmer is fine.
[03:47:04] <jophish> so i need to figure a way to change those bits back to default
[03:47:26] <OndraSter> HVPP :)
[03:47:31] <jophish> ugh
[03:47:39] <OndraSter> the 100% working way
[03:48:00] <jophish> i don't have a high voltage programmer
[03:48:03] <jophish> :|
[03:48:04] <OndraSter> if it doesn't work with external clock source either (any square wave with few MHz is fine), then you blocked ISP
[03:48:42] <OndraSter> SPI ISP
[03:48:53] <CapnKernel> specing: Why hello there!
[03:49:23] <CapnKernel> jophish: You can make a high voltage programmer, tell me if you'd like to know how.
[03:49:35] <jophish> hmm
[03:50:12] <jophish> sure. i have a 20 mhz crystal and a resonator, would those be fine for an external clock?
[03:50:52] <jophish> how would i go about creating a hvp?
[03:51:21] <OndraSter> well if you configured the clock source not as crystal or resonator but as regular square wave input, crystal won't cut it :)
[03:52:04] <jophish> urgh
[03:52:27] <CapnKernel> http://www.instructables.com/id/AVR-Attiny-fusebit-doctor-HVSP/
[03:53:08] <jophish> could i just use a 555 to create an output like that?
[03:53:16] <CapnKernel> As OndraSter says, if the fuse bits are wrong, you can't use a crystal. You will have to inject a suitable square wave.
[03:53:35] <OndraSter> you can do square wave with 555, yes
[03:53:38] <CapnKernel> You could generate a square wave with a 555, or with another AVR or (gasp) an Arduino.
[03:53:55] <OndraSter> HVSP won't do it here - he has full and big atmega
[03:53:57] <OndraSter> and they have HVPP
[03:54:14] <CapnKernel> But note the frequency of the square wave will have to be at least 4x the frequency of your ISP clock
[03:54:54] <OndraSter> they write something similar about the JTAG -- speed of the MCU has to be at least 4 times higher than the JTAG clock
[03:55:16] <OndraSter> surprisingly when I set the clock to the highest possible (something around 2MHz I think) and internal clock to internal 1MHz oscillator, it still worke
[03:55:16] <OndraSter> d
[03:55:24] <OndraSter> it probably underclocked the JTAG on its own ?!
[03:55:33] <jophish> hmm
[03:56:03] <jophish> alright, i'll try outputting it from another avr and pray it works :|
[03:56:17] <CapnKernel> Read everything here carefully, esp theusch's post:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=63159
[03:58:23] <CapnKernel> Praying implies invoking god can make a difference
[03:58:35] <CapnKernel> Me, I trust the datasheet and #avr more :-)
[03:59:18] <jophish> that's what i meant :D
[04:09:07] <CapnKernel> Ahh, nice to be back in the world of decent internet...
[04:10:42] <RikusW> I would have thought Chinese internet woulde be fast ?
[04:11:49] <OndraSter> blocked tho
[04:12:21] <RikusW> what content do they block ?
[04:12:42] <OndraSter> everything that does talk about freedom
[04:12:46] <OndraSter> or is that korea?
[05:39:52] <OndraSter> guys, the (EE? flash?) PROMs for Altera FPGAs are regular serial memories?
[05:39:57] <OndraSter> because original EPCS4 is like $13
[05:40:01] <OndraSter> more than the FPGA itself :P
[05:43:40] <OndraSter> because regular 4Mbit flash from atmel is 0.7€
[05:43:42] <OndraSter> :P
[05:44:03] <OndraSter> 32Mbit for 1.7€ and you can chain multiple FPGAs to one flash
[05:47:51] <CapnKernel1> Never mind China, I'm talking about my mother's house!
[05:48:21] <CapnKernel1> Actually, internet in China (I can't speak for outside cities) is better than pretty much any western city, in terms of price and speed.
[05:48:50] <CapnKernel1> Having to start up a VPN to visit so many sites I find interesting does get rather old fast though
[05:50:21] <cyanide> hello all
[05:50:49] <cyanide> bbl watching f1 quali repeat
[05:51:27] <OndraSter> heh
[05:51:28] <Kevin`> CapnKernel1: they should make a certification where you prove that you already know about politics and internet security and get unfiltered internet access
[05:54:04] <Kevin`> CapnKernel1: it's a win-win. less legitimate complaining about the stupid filter and they can monitor you more directly for anti-party activities
[05:55:23] <CapnKernel1> The way to do anything in China is quietly route around obstacles, not make a noise and make yourself a target
[05:56:12] <CapnKernel1> The current regime does not have rule of law, and in general, only a small fraction of lawbreakers are ever punished. Unfortunately the ones they do prosecute are severely punished.
[05:56:23] <Kevin`> well obviously. quiet activities have no chance of changing anything. i'm talking about a top-down solution to the filter crap though
[05:57:03] <CapnKernel1> Chinese have a phrase to describe this: "Kill the chicken to scare the monkey". It means to make an example of someone, as a way of exacting compliance out of everyone else.
[05:57:17] <CapnKernel1> You make a noise, you become a chicken.
[05:57:59] <Kevin`> again, obvious. any noise would mean big trouble for a corrupt government. not the point though :)
[06:03:17] <Steffanx> lol nice pleonasm Kevin`
[06:03:20] <Steffanx> "corrupt government" :P
[06:03:46] <Kevin`> hah.
[06:03:47] <CapnKernel1> Not every government is corrupt
[06:03:58] <CapnKernel1> I don't think our (Australia's) government is corrupt
[06:04:22] <CapnKernel1> Ineffective, inefficient, cowardly, unprincipled yes, but not corrupt
[06:04:26] <Steffanx> They always speak the truth?
[06:04:53] <CapnKernel1> I tell you this 100% truthfully, in Australia, if you want to know the truth, you listen to the government television and radio.
[06:05:15] <Steffanx> They say problably the same thing in North Korea, china etc. :P
[06:05:30] <CapnKernel1> To the people, the fairness and impartiality of the government media is so important that if the government tries to influence it, there's a huge outcry.
[06:06:01] <CapnKernel1> I'm serious about it. Our government media is really good, really fair and unbiased. Get some other Aussies on here and ask them.
[06:06:22] <CapnKernel1> Our commercial media lives only to serve the interest of shareholders and advertisers.
[06:06:50] <CapnKernel1> And recently, big companies have been buying up our media in a deliberate attempt to pervert the news we hear.
[06:08:25] <Kevin`> CapnKernel1: australia is one of those countries with a great firewall
[06:08:33] <Steffanx> greay
[06:08:33] <Steffanx> t
[06:08:52] <nevyn> mmm...
[06:08:57] <nevyn> it's notsobad.
[06:09:04] <nevyn> the ABC is a good thing
[06:09:07] <nevyn> and so is the AEC
[06:09:07] <Kevin`> Steffanx: not a good one, a large one. as in a wall around the country, like china's famous wall
[06:14:01] <CapnKernel1> nevyn: Would you call the ABC a government mouthpiece, such as one might find in a country like China or North Korea?
[06:14:16] <inflex> CapnKernel1: not really...
[06:14:29] <inflex> ABC seems to throw enough stabs at the govt
[06:14:41] <CapnKernel1> If you were interested in a particular issue, and heard about it on the ABC, would you be inclined to trust what you heard, because it had some from the ABC?
[06:15:45] <CapnKernel1> /some/come/
[06:18:54] <inflex> in Australia, yes, more so than win/7/ten/sky news
[06:24:17] <nevyn> yep
[06:24:59] <nevyn> every time american elections come around I become immensely thankful for the AEC
[06:25:05] <karlp> (I'll support capnkernel's view of the government media)
[06:29:08] <nevyn> the abc is mostly fair. it's a tad liberal slanted in general
[06:29:30] <CapnKernel1> For those who don't know (== not Australians), the AEC is the Australian Electoral Commission. It's government funded, yet does a good job of running fair elections, and providing post election analysis
[06:30:03] <nevyn> and messing with it's funding would be political suicide
[06:30:04] <CapnKernel1> nevyn: slightly, yes. Not so much as to constitute calling it a government mouthpiece though
[06:30:31] <CapnKernel1> That's why successive governments have made sure to reduce funding only a little bit at a time :-(
[06:30:55] <nevyn> CapnKernel1: yeah :(
[06:38:47] <CapnKernel1> Politically, messing with the ABC/AEC is the 2nd-most dangerous thing Australian politicians can do in Australia right now.
[06:39:41] <Kevin`> what's the first?
[06:41:39] <Kevin`> in the US, public news is mostly unpopular in politics (insomuch as more than half are 'conservative'), it's pretty common to try to get rid of it, and it only keeps running from added donations
[06:55:47] <s`> AVR mcus are 8-bit, right? But it looks like I can have numbers above 256, when writing C for it. How come?
[06:55:59] <karlp> because compilers are clever
[06:56:18] <karlp> and because C says that you must be able to, if it's called C
[06:56:32] <s`> But technically under the C everything's <256?
[06:57:10] <Landon> with the carry bit in the status register, you can make x*8 bit numbers
[06:57:20] <Landon> and compilers just do all that for you
[06:59:03] <CapnKernel1> The most dangerous thing for Australian politicians to do at the moment is not run a budget surplus.
[08:01:20] <inflex> too bad running a surplus in itself is detrimental
[08:06:28] <CapnKernel1> Do it when times are good. Not when you need to show vision, invest in infrastructure, and create jobs.
[08:07:03] <inflex> I only wish there had been more expenditure previously on infrastructure... the whole Telstra thing burned me bd
[08:08:41] <inflex> While it's likely Labor will be discarded next time around, I hope that the coalition will still go ahead with the NBN rollout. imo it's like the GST... both did want to bring it in, but one had to pull the trigger
[08:08:52] <inflex> (and I honestly prefer the GST
[08:10:02] <inflex> What I do find irksome is when I am at anti-NBN homes and they are at the same time squarking about the crappy internet performance they have and how expensive it is.
[08:10:28] <inflex> I'm like "O_o you do realise the NBN will being buttloads of capacity at a sane price... right?"
[08:11:13] <CapnKernel1> I mostly agree with you
[08:11:15] <inflex> or worse "Why are they wasting out money on prehistoric fibre!!! we should be looking at wireless!" --- usually at that point I'm responsible for a murder.
[08:11:27] <CapnKernel1> Murder of reason
[08:11:50] <CapnKernel1> I don't have confidence that a government can pull it off without it being a major taxpayer drag
[08:12:10] <inflex> For sure, the latter is a reality
[08:12:34] <CapnKernel1> The introduction of the GST is an interesting indicator of the Australian mentality
[08:12:37] <inflex> but then, commercial enterprises don't seem to be doing much better in other views.
[08:12:52] <CapnKernel1> Labour floated the idea of a consumption tax as far back as 1986
[08:13:37] <CapnKernel1> Australians have a history of crying blue murder about proposed changes. When they come through, everyone gives up and goes back to getting on with life. The GST was a fine example of this.
[08:13:45] <inflex> yep
[08:14:19] <inflex> I remember watching the big TV program that was nationally broadcast for Pro-GST from the Labor side at the time... they lost of course... and then it came in any how
[08:15:54] <CapnKernel1> The same will happen with the climate change legislation. Well almost.
[08:16:10] <inflex> *nod*
[08:16:18] <CapnKernel1> Almost, in that we are due for large rises in the price of energy, which will be blamed solely on this legislation, never mind that it would have happened anyway.
[08:16:31] <inflex> Yep
[08:16:51] <inflex> I'm quite pro to the idea of ramping up the price of energy... for too long we've played fast and loose with its consumption
[08:17:03] <inflex> "It'll be right, we can just burn more fuel"
[08:17:10] <CapnKernel1> Yes. The price we've paid has been for the price of production, and not for the price of consumption.
[08:17:28] <inflex> Of course, it's been instrumental to the development of our society.. but it's time now to wind back the greed.
[08:18:32] <inflex> Now, if only we could get resaonably priced broad-spectrum high efficiency lights for household use
[08:19:04] <inflex> I'd use dayglow aquarium fluro tubes but they wear down in 3~6 months and cost a fortune
[08:19:28] <inflex> (that is, the phosphors that one needs to keep it feeling nice die out fast)
[08:21:32] <inflex> I know many say 10,000 hours... but you can really see the dropoff sooner than that
[08:25:25] <vectory> lol, first you demand people to be humble and then that. i assume, that a little bit less nice feeling tubes would still light up your house. on the other hand, i waste lot of energy just saying that, although its non of my buziness >_<
[08:26:40] <inflex> vectory: not quite, what I'm saying is that we need a broad-spectrum lighting solution that is good in efficiency
[08:27:07] <inflex> CFLs are "okay" but realistically I'm finding I'm burning 2~3x as many just to make the room good for working in - and I'm talking about avoiding eyestrain.
[08:29:33] <amee2k> hmm this is annoying...
[08:29:37] <karlp> you're using the wrong cfls?
[08:29:43] <karlp> there's some really crap ones out there
[08:29:52] <amee2k> if someone buys something from me on ebay, gets the goods, but files an "item not delivered" complaint anyway, do i need to do something?
[08:30:06] <inflex> karlp: mixing 3 different types just to get a reasonable spectrum. Using Philips and GE branded ones
[08:30:11] <OndraSter> prove him wrong, amee2k
[08:30:23] <OndraSter> like send him copy of the post papers or whatever
[08:30:27] <amee2k> the nice thing about tracking is that people can't just say it didn't arrive. the log says that my package has been delivered. so i know better
[08:30:35] <OndraSter> yep
[08:30:54] <vectory> amee2k: logs arent always correct, but what else have you to rely on
[08:30:58] <amee2k> or let me ask the other way around, do i risk any sactions or something if i *don't* do something?
[08:31:05] <OndraSter> yes
[08:31:10] <OndraSter> they can take your money back
[08:31:12] <vectory> first, talk to the buyer
[08:31:13] <amee2k> thats not hot then.
[08:31:28] <inflex> aye yes... esp if paid via PayPal... they file a dispute... BAMN, the money goes out of yoru account
[08:31:31] * inflex just had that :(
[08:31:34] <amee2k> lol, they can have it. it sold for like 3 bucks
[08:31:42] <amee2k> i don't do paypal
[08:31:52] <vectory> thats what they want you to think >:(
[08:31:55] <vectory> ojh
[08:31:58] <vectory> why not?
[08:32:36] <amee2k> even if i did, i wouldn't consider the payment as complete until PP transfers the money to my real bank account for exactly that kind of reason
[08:32:52] <amee2k> and once i have it on my real account, pp can't do squat
[08:32:57] <mrfrenzy> incorrect!
[08:33:11] <mrfrenzy> if you have connected paypal to a real account they can withdraw money directly from your bank
[08:33:11] <amee2k> what do they want to do?
[08:33:22] <mrfrenzy> for example if the buyer does a chargeback months after the purchase
[08:33:24] <amee2k> well, and i can cancel the withdrawl from my end
[08:33:28] <mrfrenzy> no
[08:33:33] <amee2k> i've done that before
[08:33:56] <mrfrenzy> there are many examples of this were paypal has screwed sellers over even when the chargeback was without cause
[08:34:01] <amee2k> some dude in berlin got the account number wrong or something and i got his electricity bill billed to my account
[08:34:27] <vectory> yeah, lastschrift
[08:34:33] <vectory> dont know what its in english
[08:34:38] <amee2k> no idea either
[08:34:45] <mrfrenzy> then it was you who made a chargeback amee2k, an entirely different situation
[08:35:07] <amee2k> mrfrenzy: no, i would charge the initial chareback back
[08:35:25] <mrfrenzy> that's not possible
[08:35:33] <amee2k> i just said i did it before
[08:36:29] <amee2k> if pp charges my account again, i can always have it cancelled
[08:37:26] <amee2k> either way, i still have no idea what to do about the case
[08:37:39] <OndraSter> did he fill a dispute or just sent you email?
[08:37:55] <amee2k> i just see a message on my summary page that i "have to do something" until 20th or... nothing will happen.
[08:38:03] <amee2k> no, an ebay complaint thingy
[08:38:06] <OndraSter> oh
[08:38:15] <OndraSter> just scan the post paper you got where is the tracking #
[08:38:16] <amee2k> it doesn't say what i have to do or anything
[08:38:25] <OndraSter> and write "you can check on post website that the package has been delivered"
[08:38:48] <amee2k> hmm good point. i forgot to add the tracking number to the transaction
[08:40:30] <OndraSter> friend of mine was selling his phone (Samsung Galaxy S) on ebay, he is from CA and somebody from Brazil? or somewhere around there bought it
[08:40:47] <OndraSter> after 2 weeks he got dispute "item has not been delivered"
[08:41:01] <OndraSter> but their local post had no idea about the package...
[08:41:10] <OndraSter> I do not know how he ended up in the end
[08:41:14] <amee2k> ok, sent him the tracking number
[08:41:30] <amee2k> lol, i could just give him positive feedback and wait what happens
[08:41:31] <amee2k> >_>
[08:41:41] <OndraSter> I'd send the full paper with both tracking # AND the addresses :P
[08:41:47] <OndraSter> he also sold one more phone to some chick, who replied him "doesn't work"
[08:41:55] <OndraSter> so he says "okay, return it, I will give you full refund"
[08:41:59] <OndraSter> so she sends the phone back
[08:42:04] <OndraSter> he receives it and.. the phone works lol
[08:42:07] <amee2k> lol
[08:42:09] <OndraSter> I hate these people :(
[08:42:12] <amee2k> just put it up for sale again
[08:42:17] <OndraSter> I bought it myself actually :D
[08:42:25] <amee2k> maybe she didn't like it
[08:42:28] <OndraSter> lol
[08:42:38] <OndraSter> he was sending me Riff Box (JTAG for phones) so he packed it into it
[08:42:44] <amee2k> at least here private sellers aren't required to accept returns
[08:42:51] <OndraSter> it was AT&T Touch Diamond 2
[08:43:07] <OndraSter> well he is not required as well, but he didn't want negative feedback
[08:43:20] <OndraSter> that's why, when I sell anything, mark it as "working, but without any warranty"
[08:43:25] <OndraSter> and put pics of it working
[08:43:30] <amee2k> so the only way she could make him take the phone back if she just doesn't like it would be to make a fuss about that it doesn't work
[08:43:39] <OndraSter> the price goes a bit lower, but better than some d.ckheads :/
[08:44:07] <OndraSter> amee2k, negative feedback is punishment enough
[08:44:16] <OndraSter> if you have 14 feedbacks and one of them is negative...
[08:44:57] * inflex just had his Marantz CD deck arrive "broken" :(
[08:44:58] <amee2k> i usually describe what i did to test it, if possible show devices powered on the pics. then make a large note that i don't have the resources for examining it comprehensively and i'm explicitly declaring it as untested and sold as-is.
[08:45:10] <inflex> asking for the guy to just send it right back now... and I'll refund, but he's slow to respond :(
[08:46:03] <amee2k> OndraSter: i've got 161 of these score points, and 90 positive within the last 12 months
[08:46:08] <OndraSter> :)
[08:46:20] <amee2k> no negative or neutral
[08:46:39] <OndraSter> I have a lot of feedback too, never sold anything though
[08:46:40] <OndraSter> and all positive
[08:46:43] <OndraSter> I pay immediatily lol
[08:47:40] <amee2k> 90% of the time i just buy but when i have stuff that i don't want to throw out i usually try selling it
[08:47:47] <amee2k> i'm kind of grumpy because he took ages to send the money, then sent me an email every other day if the money arrived already. so i was contemplating neutral feedback
[08:47:48] <OndraSter> :)
[08:48:30] <amee2k> i'm wondering if giving positive with something like "fast payment, stellar communication! you're welcome every time" would throw him off balance lol
[08:48:40] <OndraSter> lol
[08:49:12] * inflex just wants this bloomen CD deck back so he can close off this whole unfortunate business
[08:49:49] <OndraSter> amee2k, I sold two phones last week
[08:49:55] <OndraSter> on local ebay-like copy
[08:50:05] <OndraSter> but I don't sell much really, I often give it away to somebody
[08:50:13] <OndraSter> from class, forums etc
[08:50:28] <amee2k> yeah, i usually ask friends and family first if i think they can use it
[08:51:06] <amee2k> but like once a year i go on an ebay spree and sell a pile of crap that i have no use for anymore, but still could get a useful price
[08:52:20] <amee2k> i'm probably going to use this year's ebay round plus the project budget of a project that is stuck anyway to buy a half decent multimeter
[08:52:59] <amee2k> the two cheapos i've been using are pretty much finished now lol
[08:55:47] <Steffanx> amee2k goes fluke?
[08:57:25] <amee2k> lol
[08:57:29] <amee2k> not really
[08:57:44] <amee2k> imo these are ass expensive here
[08:58:06] <Steffanx> Some people get 'broken' flukes from ebay-ish websites and repair them
[08:58:12] <Steffanx> most of the time that seems to be pretty easy
[08:58:28] <amee2k> i'm eyeing a UT71 right now. i was considering the two 61Bs but these don't have logging and rms
[08:58:58] <amee2k> tough decision but i think i'd rather have one good one instead of two not so good ones
[09:03:12] <amee2k> Steffanx: not really convinced of that approach. i've fixed up the meters i have a few times and every time they got a bit more wee afterwards
[09:03:35] <amee2k> Steffanx: got a fluke to recommend in about my feature range that i should look at?
[09:03:39] <Steffanx> Some people are convinced :)
[09:05:32] <Steffanx> No, not really
[09:05:36] <amee2k> not me, really. even if i could get it to run again, without an existing meter that i can trust, i have no way to check that ti works
[09:06:04] <amee2k> same as the "how do you fix a scope without a scope" problem ;)
[09:06:37] <Steffanx> trial and error :)
[09:07:31] <Steffanx> error = maybe dead
[09:07:37] <amee2k> lol
[09:07:50] <amee2k> sorry, but i'd rather get a new meter instead ;)
[09:08:02] <amee2k> so any idea what flukes would be in my feature range?
[09:15:23] * amee2k nudges Steffanx
[09:15:43] <amee2k> you brought up the F word, don't have the balls to follow up on it now? ;)
[09:31:23] <Steffanx> No, amee2k :P
[09:38:01] <amee2k> :P
[10:00:39] <s`> Is $5 okay for a atmega88?
[10:02:04] <Steffanx> I think ~3$ would be better
[10:14:52] <OndraSter> $5 is way too much
[10:15:01] <OndraSter> you can get xmega32d4 for 2.7€
[10:15:06] <OndraSter> mouser that is
[10:15:24] <Steffanx> xmega :P
[10:16:19] <OndraSter> yeah
[10:16:20] <OndraSter> even!
[10:18:35] <Steffanx> You can get an m88 (tqfp) for half of that OndraSter :)
[11:08:18] <OndraSter> Steffanx, yeah, but that doesn't change a thing on the fact that $5 for m88 is... A LOT
[12:07:40] <Tom_itx> lo abcminiuser
[12:08:32] <abcminiuser> GREETINGS, PUNY HUMAN
[12:09:49] <vectory> lol
[12:16:39] <abcminiuser> Guess who merged his LUFA development branch into trunk today?
[12:16:47] <Tom_itx> no clue
[12:16:55] <abcminiuser> vectory did
[12:17:28] <RikusW> what did he add ?
[12:18:38] <abcminiuser> LUFA, now with ponies
[12:18:45] <abcminiuser> Also fixed XMEGA support
[12:18:51] <abcminiuser> And a sane endpoint addressing scheme
[12:19:47] <Tom_itx> dawg n pony show?
[12:19:59] <abcminiuser> YO DAWG
[12:20:06] <abcminiuser> I didn't sleep well,does it show today?
[12:20:16] <Tom_itx> naw
[12:20:20] <Tom_itx> seem like your usual self
[12:21:17] <abcminiuser> Well that's depressing :P
[12:21:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?region=sln
[12:21:27] <abcminiuser> All my crap turned up to my apartment yesterday
[12:21:29] <Tom_itx> in for a wild ride today
[12:21:32] <abcminiuser> So I have all my equipment back
[12:21:39] <Tom_itx> ahh cool
[12:21:47] <Tom_itx> made it thru customs?
[12:22:00] <abcminiuser> Yeah, all good
[12:22:11] <Tom_itx> you'll never get to take it home now
[12:22:21] <RikusW> so how is AVR32 LUFA support now ?
[12:22:36] <abcminiuser> RikusW, XMEGA, UC3 and AVR8 are all supported in the core
[12:22:42] <abcminiuser> Not sure how to tackle the demos :S
[12:24:12] <RikusW> nice job
[12:24:28] <RikusW> getting stuff portable can be complicated...
[12:25:08] <Tom_itx> dean goes to work and brags: i ported LUFA to xmega, uc3 and avr8 last night... wtf did you do?
[12:26:02] <RikusW> you'll probably have to make an api for ports timers etc
[12:26:15] <abcminiuser> RikusW, yeah :(
[12:26:30] <abcminiuser> Perhaps pull an ASF, make each demo have subfolders for each arch
[12:26:42] <abcminiuser> Then pull out common code into the root demo folder
[12:27:41] <vectory> i for my part worry more about docs :')
[12:27:48] <vectory> as long as m8 is supported
[12:27:57] <RikusW> its easy to complain about other peoples api's and frameworks, but hard to make your own.... :-P
[12:28:12] <vectory> thats not saying i found the docs bad, never had a closer look at LUFA
[12:28:17] <abcminiuser> I've added a part to the manual on how to use it in AS5/AS6
[12:28:40] <vectory> that doesnt help me much on linux ;(
[12:28:52] <vectory> trying to get windows up and running
[12:28:54] <abcminiuser> Well it's still usable from the command line :P
[12:29:04] <vectory> but cant download the install image without windows xD
[12:46:26] <O0ddity> Has anyone used AVRdude in terminal mode (enter commands line by line)
[12:47:02] <O0ddity> i was woundering if i can send a reset to to an AVR that is hooked up to an ISP
[12:48:48] <RikusW> if you read for example a fuse it will reset the avr
[12:49:20] <RikusW> entering programming mode activates reset, leaving it release reset
[12:49:55] <O0ddity> ok cool
[12:50:17] <vectory> can you write 1 to the reset interupt flag?
[12:50:36] <O0ddity> can you set registers, over ISP?
[12:50:38] * vectory looks for the docs
[12:50:57] <vectory> yes i think so
[12:51:02] <RikusW> O0ddity: no, you're thinking about jtag or debugWire
[12:51:05] <specing> No, you have JTAG for that
[12:51:19] <vectory> RikusW: but you can read registers at least?
[12:51:19] <O0ddity> yeh i was thinking it was way out of the scop of ISP
[12:51:32] <RikusW> vectory: no
[12:51:39] <vectory> lol, i dont know what im doing
[12:51:49] <specing> indeed
[12:52:38] <RikusW> O0ddity: I put some simple commands in my bootloader code allowing access to any memory location, that allows you to read/write registers,IO and ram
[12:54:30] <O0ddity> nice, that sounds rather useful
[12:54:58] <vectory> over serial console?
[12:55:21] <RikusW> vectory: via that U2S_debug code
[12:57:05] <RikusW> O0ddity: in short it allows me to "run" avr code in a debugger on the PC
[12:57:28] <RikusW> but it is compiled for x86 but can access the avr io's
[12:58:05] <RikusW> I used C++ operator overloading to pull that off
[12:58:24] <vectory> cool
[12:59:13] <RikusW> but it won't be even near realtime, since everything goes via usb/uart
[12:59:27] <O0ddity> yeh operator overloading is nice... it makes C much easier to read
[13:00:34] <RikusW> O0ddity:
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home -> software page -> U2S_Debug code
[13:00:48] <RikusW> It will give you an idea of what I did
[13:01:15] <O0ddity> i have a question
[13:01:22] <O0ddity> what chip are you using mostly?
[13:01:41] <O0ddity> is there a MEGA32 with USB support?
[13:01:57] <RikusW> yes mega32u2 and mega32u4
[13:02:09] <RikusW> I have a lot of 32u2's
[13:02:12] <O0ddity> where the hell do you get those?
[13:02:14] <RikusW> like 100
[13:02:25] <RikusW> rsonline
[13:02:50] <RikusW> I got mine from a local company
[13:03:08] <RikusW> but its tqfp/qfn only
[13:03:09] <O0ddity> hmm i often get cheap crap from china
[13:03:20] <O0ddity> you mean SMD?
[13:03:32] <RikusW> yes
[13:03:37] <RikusW> no dip versions
[13:04:25] <O0ddity> that cool, i bought a bunch of nice universal SMD boards. the ones with the long pads that fit a whole range of chips
[13:05:07] <RikusW> just pay special attention to the usb wiring
[13:05:39] <RikusW> 32u2/4 is about 3-4euro afaik
[13:05:52] <O0ddity> or what, Your PC will reset it self instantly
[13:06:57] <RikusW> that too :-P
[13:07:05] <RikusW> data wires needs to be the same length
[13:07:18] <RikusW> and have 22Ohm resistors in series
[13:07:33] <RikusW> and you need a 10uF and 1uF cap too
[13:07:54] <RikusW> the 1uF one is for the 3v3 regulator
[13:08:21] <O0ddity> why do you need a 3.3v source anyways?
[13:09:12] <RikusW> for the usb signals
[13:09:34] <O0ddity> right, data line is 3.3
[13:12:12] <dirty_d> hello
[13:14:14] <OndraSter> hi
[13:14:39] <dirty_d> hows your led thing?
[13:15:20] <OndraSter> haven't touched it for over a week, because it works :P
[13:15:32] <dirty_d> cool
[13:15:53] <dirty_d> i think im gonna try making a usb HID device with this xmega
[13:16:02] <dirty_d> and my spare cyro/accelerometer
[13:16:04] <dirty_d> gyro
[13:16:20] <dirty_d> a sort of aimable gun mous
[13:16:23] <dirty_d> mouse
[13:16:25] <dirty_d> for games
[13:16:38] <dirty_d> have a button thats like lifting the mouse off the mousepad
[13:20:22] <dirty_d> never messed with usb though
[13:20:51] <OndraSter> what is the difference between "Low ESR" and "Low impedance" caps?
[13:23:19] <RikusW> same thing
[13:23:24] <OndraSter> I thought so
[13:23:31] <OndraSter> but mouser has it as two different options in the listing
[13:23:33] <OndraSter> oh well
[13:23:38] <RikusW> Equivalent Series Resistance
[13:23:46] <OndraSter> yes
[13:24:42] <vectory> they might have different options for 320*480 and 320x480 in the display area
[13:25:13] <vectory> must be hard for the trainees to enter all the values in the webshop :')
[13:26:57] <dreamon__> am I right here. 1question. Atmega644 & Atmega644A. Are there any different? I programmed my controller. all works fine. but my serial display isnt working any more.
[13:27:05] <abcminiuser> Someone kidnapped my gf and replaced her with a pain in the ass that looks astonishingly similar to her...
[13:27:26] <OndraSter> dreamon__, 'a' series should be newer, less power requirements, probably even some bug fixes
[13:27:27] <dreamon__> atmega 644 worked perfect but now bought a few atmega 644a .. its offer.
[13:27:34] <OndraSter> at least that's 128 vs 128a
[13:28:34] <specing> abcminiuser: Haha
[13:28:54] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, good that I don't have a gf -.-
[13:28:55] <dirty_d> women, cant live with em....
[13:28:56] <dreamon__> OndraSter, Ok. Do I have to make some changes in compiler?
[13:29:31] <OndraSter> dreamon__, if their signature bytes match then no
[13:29:38] <OndraSter> then they are absolutely identical from the outside
[13:30:18] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, I have enough of a salary now that I don't have to
[13:30:20] <abcminiuser> Hrm...
[13:30:46] <RikusW> dreamon__: seems like the A version got 2 uarts ?
[13:30:57] <OndraSter> hmm there are hardware differences then...
[13:31:46] <OndraSter> appearantly naming convention doesn't apply always :)
[13:31:47] <dreamon__> OndraSter, the good Atmega644-20PU -> the new Atmega644A-PU1128
[13:31:57] <RikusW> maybe try compiling the hex again for 644A ?
[13:32:36] <RikusW> for the rest the IO regs appears to be the same
[13:32:53] * RikusW jsut diffed part description files
[13:32:58] <OndraSter> I see also new timers
[13:33:09] <OndraSter> but 644A has the same as 644 + new things
[13:33:42] <Roamin> looking at the datasheets for 644 and 644a , they do have the same signature byte though
[13:35:25] <OndraSter> checked interrupts
[13:35:25] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> but 644A has the same as 644 + new things
[13:35:27] <OndraSter> still fits
[13:35:42] <Roamin> the 644a has "on-chip 2 cycle multiplier" what's that? maybe its has to be turned off?
[13:35:43] <OndraSter> there are only extra interrupts for the second UART and Timer3
[13:35:51] <dreamon__> Hmm.. there is no data on serial Ports of the display. Put in the Old 644.. display works normally.
[13:38:03] <RikusW> check the usart pinout and registers /
[13:38:43] <dreamon__> RikusW, I will.
[13:40:52] <dreamon__> Ups.. found the Problem. hfuse was wrong set. had D9 and it had to be DF.. sorry.
[13:41:31] <dreamon__> Thanks a lot!
[13:42:26] <RikusW> so that broke your bootloader ? :-P
[13:42:45] <RikusW> you mean lfuse ?
[13:45:05] <dreamon__> RikusW, No hfuse. As you told I checked the source an saw .. hfuse had to be DF. So I tried. and display came up. Dont know what the different are but no I tried 2 different 644A.. and works.
[13:47:17] <RikusW> it changes bootloader size from 4k to 512b
[13:49:25] <dreamon__> I killed 2 times atmega 644, by simply forget to give power. and programmed this way. After that, couldnt programm 644 any more. always got no answers anymore.
[13:50:00] <RikusW> using what kind of programmer ?
[13:51:58] <dreamon__> using parallelport programmer selfmade. avrdude and STK200 option
[13:52:35] <RikusW> HVPP might rescue the "dead" avrs
[13:52:50] <RikusW> maybe it just set some fuse incorrectly due to low vcc
[13:53:36] <dreamon__> HVPP? extern oszillator? I could repair a few Atmega his way.. but two of them are dead
[13:53:53] <dreamon__> Or what is HVPP?
[13:54:11] <RikusW> HV parallel programming
[13:54:19] <RikusW> the stk500 supports that
[13:54:59] <RikusW> you need 20 connections to the avr
[13:55:48] <vectory> and high voltage
[13:55:52] <dreamon__> RikusW, Do you have a link for me? Using this Hardware ->
http://www.ulrichradig.de/home/index.php/avr/eth_m32_ex -> and I love it
[13:56:15] <vectory> so, 644A and 644 can take the same hex files?
[13:56:37] <RikusW> 644 -> 644A should be ok
[13:56:38] <dreamon__> vectory, Yes..
[13:56:47] <vectory> maybe just by coincidence
[13:57:21] <RikusW> dreamon__: Atmel makes the STK500 and
[13:57:24] <RikusW> stk600
[13:57:55] <vectory> or same signature?
[13:57:59] <RikusW> dreamon__: I have a STK500 clone
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[13:58:12] <RikusW> vectory: the signatures differ
[13:59:53] <vectory> well, as long as its working without a recompile ;)
[14:00:07] <dreamon__> Think I do better a check, by reading the hardware. If anwers right, I let it programm
[14:02:06] <RikusW> vectory:
[14:02:07] <RikusW> ATmega644 SIGNATURE=$1E9609 JTAGID=$0960903f
[14:02:09] <RikusW> ATmega644A SIGNATURE=$1E9609 JTAGID=$0960A03f
[14:02:09] <RikusW> ATmega644P SIGNATURE=$1E960A JTAGID=$0960A03f
[14:02:09] <RikusW> ATmega644PA SIGNATURE=$1E960A JTAGID=$0960A03f
[14:03:33] <dirty_d> anyone have any minimal; usb code for an xmega?
[14:11:16] <O0ddity> lol i figured out why i was getting a 2.5v readin from my multi meter the other day
[14:12:12] <O0ddity> with the circuit and code i had in place, it would oscilate between high and low so fast the multi meter was just shoing the average
[14:12:26] <Steffanx> :)
[14:12:47] <O0ddity> also about 1800 uSeconds makes a prett sweet strobe light
[14:12:57] <OndraSter> true rms? :P
[14:13:02] <OndraSter> with 50% duty cycle
[14:13:37] <O0ddity> dono i dont have a scope to check it out
[14:13:53] <O0ddity> or even a multy meter with a duty cycle lol
[14:15:30] <O0ddity> speaking of.. does anyone think this usbee clone looks anygood
[14:15:31] <O0ddity> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-oscilloscope-and-logic-analyzer-93518
[14:24:33] <specing> 3MHZ? LOL
[14:25:10] <OndraSter> analog
[14:25:13] <OndraSter> digital is way higher :P
[14:25:36] <O0ddity> yeh... i am thkning a pc sound card would actually do a better job with analog
[14:25:56] <specing> O0ddity: you are just being silly now
[14:26:05] <OndraSter> no
[14:26:14] <OndraSter> sound card samples at 44ksps usually
[14:26:15] <OndraSter> tops
[14:26:20] <OndraSter> this does 16MSps
[14:26:46] <OndraSter> no wait, it is 16MHz digital sampling only as well ?!
[14:27:40] <O0ddity> i have no idea, how would i go about hooking my sound card up to a 5v digital singnal
[14:27:44] <OndraSter> for $42 that is just a joke
[14:27:48] <OndraSter> lol
[14:27:52] <OndraSter> I wouldn't do that
[14:28:01] <specing> I tried once
[14:28:05] <specing> didn't work
[14:28:12] <specing> sound still works, though
[14:28:13] <OndraSter> the soundcard anymore? :D
[14:28:14] <OndraSter> oh
[14:28:36] <specing> the inputs are protected, ofcourse
[14:28:57] <O0ddity> what if you put the signal through an opamp?
[14:29:55] <specing> O0ddity: just google for some fucking soundcard scope circuit?
[14:30:03] <O0ddity> lol
[14:31:32] <O0ddity> This doesnt seem like such a bad device
[14:31:32] <O0ddity> http://www.usbee.com/ax.html
[14:31:46] <O0ddity> same as the $40 knock off
[14:32:13] <O0ddity> would this be useful for AVR hobbiest?
[14:34:30] <specing> Its crapshit because it works only on shitdows
[14:35:05] <O0ddity> DRINK THE COOLAID
[14:35:32] <Steffanx> if(specing talks about windows) { skip(); }
[14:36:02] <specing> Steffanx: :D
[14:36:32] <RikusW> rather skip(windows); :-D
[14:37:51] <dirty_d> jeez this usb stuff is complex
[14:37:57] <dirty_d> theres like 7 million registers
[14:38:30] <Steffanx> 7 trillion at least
[14:38:57] <RikusW> dirty_d: you haven't even started building your HID descriptor yet :-P
[14:39:05] <RikusW> rather use LUFA
[14:40:55] <specing> #if usb \n #include "LUFA"\n #endif
[14:42:08] <Steffanx> I thought specing was more into assembly
[14:42:32] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, what lib are you using?
[14:45:03] <specing> Steffanx: you can use CPP with asm
[14:45:16] <OndraSter> I am more into assembly :P
[14:45:22] <specing> Steffanx: Im doing inline assembly for now
[14:45:31] * specing assembles OndraSter
[14:45:37] <Steffanx> A real assembly pro doesn't use that kind of tricks specing
[14:46:39] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:46:44] <OndraSter> inline assembly inside... assembly? :P
[14:48:00] <specing> Meh, some chinese are bruteforcing my SSH port again
[14:48:06] <Steffanx> Like always
[14:48:17] <OndraSter> heh
[14:48:19] <specing> Where is the Great Firewall of China when you need it?
[14:48:50] <specing> 115.238.55.166
[14:48:57] <specing> It belongs to a bank, lol
[14:49:05] <OndraSter> lol
[14:49:07] <OndraSter> proxy!
[14:49:40] <specing> I bet their banking cluster runs vista
[14:49:49] <OndraSter> I LIKED VISTA YOU KNOW! :(
[14:51:54] <Steffanx> Just a one year old version of nginx specing .. nginx on windows, sure :P
[14:52:21] <Steffanx> If they used windows they probably would've used IIS
[14:57:12] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, im not using anything yet, but i have atxmega32a4u
[14:57:18] <dirty_d> any suggestions?
[14:58:00] <dirty_d> i just wanna make a HID mouse
[15:00:38] <Tom_itx> so load the lufa example
[15:02:12] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, I have a LUFA XMEGA Mouse demo that will build against latest trunk if you want that
[15:02:17] <abcminiuser> Otherwsie Atmel ASF mouse demo
[15:02:47] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, isnt lufa all in software?
[15:02:55] <dirty_d> the 32a4u has hardware usb
[15:03:48] <Tom_itx> precicely what LUFA is for
[15:04:44] <dirty_d> what?
[15:05:21] <Tom_itx> it is made for hardware usb
[15:05:30] <dirty_d> oh
[15:05:37] <dirty_d> cool
[15:07:38] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, where can i get that LUFA mouse demo?
[15:07:48] <dirty_d> im not uisng avrstudio if that matters, just avr-gcc
[15:08:26] <abcminiuser> You need to grab latest LUFA trunk first
[15:08:36] <abcminiuser> lufa-lib.org/latest-archive
[15:08:43] <abcminiuser> Then I can email you the modified demo
[15:09:20] <dirty_d> ok cool, can you send it to andrew2085@gmail.com
[15:09:58] <abcminiuser> Rightyo
[15:10:48] <dirty_d> git clone
https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa-lib.git right?
[15:11:17] <abcminiuser> yup
[15:11:23] <dirty_d> ok
[15:13:12] <dirty_d> lol, hmm seems like make is stuck in an infinite loop
[17:13:07] <specing> abcminiuser: xmega 8331B- AVR-03/12
[17:13:32] <specing> doc typo on page 65, in the middle of the table
[17:16:31] <abcminiuser> specing, forward to avr@atmel.com
[17:16:49] <abcminiuser> Just do it right now, because I'm on support duty again in a week's time
[17:16:58] <abcminiuser> And I'm on for 4 or 5 bleeding weeks
[17:17:01] <specing> Nah, its your job :D
[20:51:04] <jophish_> hello, question, is this programmer capable of hvpp or no?
[20:51:15] <jophish_> http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
[20:52:07] <jophish_> cause i'm locked out of a 328p
[21:05:19] <Tom_itx> does it say it is?
[21:06:07] <Tom_itx> the dragon is
[21:39:13] <dirty_d> hmm i dont think LUFA will work with my atxmega32a4u
