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[04:22:59] <Metalsutton> Hey
[04:23:50] <Metalsutton> Ive got a question or two around general electronics (im new) however I would like to ask in #electronics since its quite general. However I don't have voice in the channel. Does anyone know how to get voice?
[04:30:09] <specing> register.
[05:08:02] <P3X018> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Startech-com-Serial-RS232-Adapter-Retention/dp/B004ZMYTYC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333878827&sr=8-1 <-- is this a reliable usb-to-serial adapter?
[05:09:43] <P3X018> I hear only good about FTDI, but I don't wanna end up with a cheap Chinese counterfeit...
[05:36:06] * specing uses a pl2303
[06:01:30] <specing> Oh if there was a way to stop GCC from using sts/lds....
[06:05:35] <skorket> has anyone played around with the nrf2401l's?
[07:03:35] <Metalsutton> Hey everyone
[07:04:10] <Metalsutton> New to the electronics game. Still have a bit to learn, can anyone help me out?
[07:16:49] <P3X018> On an stk500, isn't it necessary to connect the ISP6PIN to something to be able to communicate with the programmer using ISP?
[07:20:51] <abcminiuser> Yes
[07:21:14] <abcminiuser> You need to bridge the ISP header with the appropriaty colored ISP connector near it that matches the socket your target is plugged in to
[07:23:34] <P3X018> There are SPROG1,2,3, which one to connect to? 1?
[07:24:47] <P3X018> ohh wait the colors :P
[08:42:15] <P3X018> What is the purpose of "verifying the device" before/after programming it?
[08:45:27] <specing> P3X018: What is the purpose of testing food before sending it to customers?
[08:46:08] <P3X018> But what does the verification do?
[08:46:44] <P3X018> Test for inconsistencies and for code that can endanger the device?
[08:48:31] <RikusW> it reads back the code and checks it
[08:48:40] <RikusW> to make sure it programmed correctly
[08:48:54] <RikusW> its only needed after programming
[08:49:19] <P3X018> ok
[08:49:43] * RikusW is wondering is anyone in here have ever seen an avr's flash wear out ?
[08:49:51] <RikusW> *if
[08:50:00] <specing> I haven't
[08:50:14] <specing> And I've tortured this mega8 for quite some time
[08:52:09] <RikusW> how many flashes about ? or lost track ?
[08:52:40] <specing> lost track
[08:52:49] <specing> I'd say about 200-300
[08:53:46] <specing> maybe even more
[08:53:55] <specing> I have it for over 2 years now
[08:56:56] <RikusW> according to atmel the more times it is programmed the less time the data will last, like maybe 50 years instead of 100 years ;)
[08:57:42] <RikusW> I'd be curious to know if anyone actually wore out the flash ;)
[09:03:29] <OndraSter> good luck RikusW
[09:03:33] <OndraSter> I'd say try it manually :D
[09:03:40] <OndraSter> just keep re-writting the flash
[09:03:45] <OndraSter> and count the number of writes
[09:03:55] <OndraSter> and once it fails verification, tell us the number =)
[09:04:00] <OndraSter> to give us rough expetance
[09:07:12] <specing> I'd say ask abcminiuser
[09:07:29] <specing> I bet atmel has exact numbers per parts
[09:11:09] <OndraSter> nah, it can't be exact
[09:11:23] <OndraSter> every chip is a bit different
[09:11:44] <specing> I mean exact averages per part
[09:11:54] <OndraSter> oh
[09:12:02] <OndraSter> the bigger the flash, the lower number IMHO :)
[09:13:33] * RikusW don't want to waste a perfectly good avr ;)
[09:14:04] <RikusW> there is a little info on it in the avr datasheets
[09:52:46] <specing> I guess 30cm is just too long for an ISP cable
[09:53:22] <specing> I recently got some really neat looking multicolour ribbon cables of that length
[09:56:40] <OndraSter> I got 1m ribbon cables :)
[09:56:54] <OndraSter> withotu connectors
[09:56:59] <OndraSter> without*
[09:57:06] <OndraSter> damn I am having issues writing "without" often
[09:58:29] <specing> OndraSter: And they work?
[09:58:38] <OndraSter> specing, I am not using them for ISP :)
[09:58:53] <OndraSter> I used them for something else
[09:58:56] <OndraSter> and they are just <3
[10:05:43] <specing> D'oh, Im never sure about the data direction on MISO/MOSI pins
[10:05:52] <specing> brain*uck
[10:12:13] <specing> yay, it works now
[10:12:21] <specing> it seems I've swapped the cables
[10:17:13] <specing> Now I can *finaly* retire the USBtinyISP that has been collecting dust on 1/4 of my protoboard for a year now
[10:21:04] <Martyn> Well, I found someone that has the datasheet I'm looking for... in Russia
[10:22:32] <Martyn> And they were able to prove it's the right one, even sent me the chip pinout page.
[10:22:53] <Martyn> but they want an outrageous sum of money for the PDF file. (in the thousands)
[10:23:24] <Martyn> I had -no- idea this datasheet would be that hard to get
[10:27:04] <specing> :O
[10:31:50] <OndraSter> Martyn, what for?
[10:32:00] <Martyn> AT90SC6464C-USB
[10:32:13] <Martyn> It's one of Atmel's old "secure" at90 chip lines
[10:32:26] <Martyn> I have 20,000 chips from a surplus supplier, but no datasheet to program them
[10:33:11] <Martyn> ( and I don't know where RikusW thought he found info that there were no IO lines .. there are just as many IO lines on the AT90SC6464 as on a Teensy )
[10:33:12] <OndraSter> duh
[10:35:48] <OndraSter> even abcminiuser can't help? :)
[10:35:59] <abcminiuser> Wha?
[10:36:30] <OndraSter> <Martyn> AT90SC6464C-USB
[10:36:34] <OndraSter> datasheet for it :)
[10:36:50] <OndraSter> how much did you pay for those 20k chips, Martyn? :o)
[10:36:55] <Martyn> abcminiuser is aware of the issue
[10:36:59] <OndraSter> oh
[10:37:00] <OndraSter> kk
[10:37:09] <Martyn> OndraSter : Very, very little
[10:37:15] <Martyn> OndraSter : I just hate waste.
[10:37:16] <OndraSter> sorry for interrupting then, abcminiuser
[10:37:21] <OndraSter> Martyn, I hate waste as well lol
[10:37:30] <Martyn> and while I could sell them, say, to a surplus vendor .. I'd love to be able to actually use them
[10:37:48] <OndraSter> make some giant project that would sell 20k? :)
[10:37:49] <OndraSter> not bad idea!
[10:38:03] <Martyn> They have -two- digital IO lines after all, and a USB port
[10:38:08] <Martyn> which is a Big Deal in a tiny chip
[10:38:15] <OndraSter> how tiny?
[10:38:45] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, that's strike one
[10:38:46] <abcminiuser> ;)
[10:38:51] <OndraSter> :D
[10:39:01] * abcminiuser was making LUFA importable into AS5/AS6
[10:39:36] <Martyn> abcminiuser : You're -working- today? *heh*
[10:39:44] <OndraSter> :D
[10:39:49] <abcminiuser> Martyn, it's my hobby project :P
[10:39:57] <Martyn> Well, that's totally fair then :)
[10:40:19] <Martyn> I've decided to dedicate part of the afternoon to bringing up a SAM4S chip
[10:41:09] <Martyn> Since my FAE was so kind as to drop off enough of them for me to make a go at replacing the SAM3 for a SAM4 in my design
[10:41:21] <Martyn> and the SAM4S is seeeeeeeeeeeeeexy
[10:41:26] <Martyn> (for a chip)
[10:41:54] <OndraSter> hmm? :)
[10:42:14] <OndraSter> ARM is sexy all together
[10:42:26] <Martyn> OndraSter : ARM Cortex M4 microcontroller, 1M flash, enough RAM to run a full RTOS, and one hell of a peripheral set
[10:42:37] <OndraSter> 1M flash :o)
[10:42:41] <OndraSter> not bad :)
[10:42:46] <Martyn> Yeah, 1M. Amazing
[10:42:58] <OndraSter> not sure what I would do with all that
[10:43:06] <OndraSter> I am having issues filling over 32kBytes often
[10:43:09] <OndraSter> (AVR that would be)
[10:43:19] <Martyn> i ported the ArduCopter code to ARM, and am working on debugging things
[10:43:24] <OndraSter> although... pong + tetris for my LED board could take some space
[10:43:39] <Martyn> the nice thing is that the Cortex M3/M4 are solidly supported by gcc, and the whole toolchain is stable
[10:44:35] <Martyn> So working on getting AVR code to compile and run on ARM has been fun, but also fairly smooth and without frustration
[10:44:49] <Martyn> (and yes, I also use AVRStudio...)
[10:45:20] <OndraSter> AVR studio or Atmel studio 6? :)
[10:45:40] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, any news on supporting ARM7TDMI chips in AS6?
[10:45:53] <OndraSter> gotta run, sister needs help doing simple math lol, afk
[10:46:56] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, I am under many NDAs and can't answer questions about future products
[10:47:22] <abcminiuser> But I'd suggest that since old MEGAs aren't even supported, old ARMs may not be either
[10:54:51] <Martyn> *nod*
[10:55:23] <Martyn> abcminiuser : Is there an AS6 beta program that someone can sign up for?
[10:55:38] <Martyn> abcminiuser: Especially if I heavily use both AVR and ARM series?
[10:55:40] <abcminiuser> Martyn, the beta's already on the Atmel site
[10:55:49] <abcminiuser> Unless you mean the daily builds, in which, no, internal only
[10:55:56] <Martyn> That's what I meant :)
[10:56:04] <Martyn> *nod*
[10:56:15] <abcminiuser> It's sad, but it will just cause issues if we release themn
[10:56:16] <abcminiuser> *them
[10:56:23] <Martyn> No, totally understandable
[10:56:30] <abcminiuser> Since they aren't tested like the public betas are beforehand
[10:56:32] <Martyn> and the beta release -does- get updated from time to time
[10:56:38] <Martyn> yep
[10:56:51] <abcminiuser> I had one daily trunk the other week completely lock my machine, so definetely not a good idea to publish them :P
[10:56:57] <Martyn> I've actually been enjoying using AS6 vs/ Eclipse + GCC ...
[10:57:18] <abcminiuser> I much prefer VS as an IDE, even though it's not cross platform
[10:57:20] <Martyn> both work nicely, and I'm not gonna complain :) AS6-gold-master can't come fast enough for me though
[10:57:27] <abcminiuser> Just wish AS6 was faster and had less bugs :P
[10:57:38] <Martyn> heh, I see we have the same sentiment
[10:57:42] <abcminiuser> Martyn, gold master is not all that far away
[10:57:53] <Martyn> well, the final does get compiled with --release vs --debug, and that makes a lot of the slowness go away
[10:58:19] <Martyn> heyyyyyy! I have the SAM4S talking to me .. awesome
[10:58:22] <learningc> Martyn: how much you bought 20K of those atmel chhips?
[10:58:35] <Martyn> learningc: They weren't all that expensive
[10:58:47] <learningc> Martyn: $200?
[10:58:55] <Martyn> learningc : I'm sure, if I can't get a datasheet, I'll be able to sell them to a surplus vendor for a good profit
[10:59:08] <Martyn> learningc : **LOL** no.
[10:59:19] <Martyn> learningc: Look up how much they are worth, even now.
[10:59:41] <learningc> Martyn: you bought them for what purpose?
[11:00:06] <Martyn> to use as AT90 parts, with two IO channels
[11:00:14] <Martyn> and built-in USB
[11:00:34] <Martyn> (a penny each, good god that would be the deal of a century learningc!)
[11:00:51] <learningc> Martyn: to use them, personally?
[11:01:21] <learningc> what does the at90 part has so special about?
[11:01:32] <Martyn> it's a mega
[11:01:38] <Martyn> it's the AVR3 core
[11:01:53] <Martyn> so they are the same as the 32U4, or the AT90USB
[11:02:11] <Martyn> in theory, gcc should support it, but to test that theory I have to be able to bring up a chi
[11:02:13] <Martyn> chip
[11:02:24] <Martyn> if I can't, I'll just sell them onto a surplus vendor
[11:02:34] <learningc> Martyn: you bought 20K for personal use?
[11:02:39] <Martyn> yes
[11:02:42] <Martyn> You seem surprised
[11:02:49] <learningc> lol, that heck a lot
[11:03:21] <abcminiuser> exDM69, any luck with the joystick?
[11:03:23] <Martyn> learningc : My "student" days a long ago and far away learningc. I make boards and products for both a hobby and a living
[11:03:34] <Martyn> abcminiuser : Good god the SAM4S is a sexy beast
[11:03:43] <abcminiuser> exDM69, I had a look at your trace file, but it doesn't show anything interesting (not even resets)
[11:04:02] <abcminiuser> Martyn, really? Haven't looked them over much other than to scratch my head at the ASF implementation
[11:04:07] <Martyn> abcminiuser : Ease of bringup of an AVR, power of an ARM, enough peripherals to do just about anything --and-- on chip debugging
[11:04:11] <learningc> Martyn: ah, now that's different, you didn't tell you wanted to make commercial products out of them!
[11:04:41] <Martyn> learningc : Actually, I want to make toys out of them for geeks
[11:05:24] <learningc> Martyn: and good luck with finding that datasheet :)
[11:05:30] <Martyn> They are perfect little USB->I2C and USB->SPI converters
[11:05:40] <Martyn> with 64K of storage to boot!
[11:06:02] <Martyn> One easy little project would be a I2C bus scanner, or a SPI bus scanner
[11:06:32] <Martyn> or a SPI data logger
[11:06:41] <Martyn> or anything that has a two or three wire protocol
[11:06:59] <learningc> what's the speed of that chip?
[11:07:33] <Martyn> unknown, but likely up to 10MHz
[11:08:11] <abcminiuser> Martyn, 10MHz?!
[11:08:14] <abcminiuser> Guess again
[11:08:29] <Martyn> abcminiuser: what, the AT90SC?
[11:08:45] <learningc> if you bout them for 10 cents each, that would come to $2k already
[11:08:51] <abcminiuser> Oh, I thought we were talking about the SAM4 still
[11:08:57] <Martyn> The IDvault I found clearly has an 8MHz crystal on it
[11:09:06] <Martyn> so it could be 16Mhz with clock doubling
[11:09:08] <Martyn> OH!
[11:09:10] <Martyn> Heh ..
[11:09:15] <abcminiuser> In that case, yes, 8MHz is probably right
[11:10:21] <learningc> usb full speed has to be 48MHz, right?
[11:10:27] <Martyn> The SAM4S samples I have say to run them at 120MHz, and they seem to be working at that speed just fine
[11:10:48] <Martyn> learningc : Yes, but rememeber that inside these things is allways a PLL tree of some sort
[11:10:54] <abcminiuser> learningc, yes, but PLL
[11:11:01] <abcminiuser> Martyn, snap
[11:11:19] <Martyn> abcminiuser : *LAUGH!*
[11:11:21] <learningc> Martyn: so 8MHz seems to be right
[11:11:34] <learningc> 8*6 = 48
[11:11:51] <learningc> or rather 8*2*3 = 48
[11:11:55] <Martyn> I'm betting it either wants a 4, 8, 16 Mhz crystal
[11:12:54] <learningc> Martyn: where did you get your sam4 samples? from atmel?
[11:13:04] <Martyn> Yep
[11:13:20] <Martyn> I've been having problems with the SAM3U, there's a big big BIG bug in the interrupt controller
[11:13:21] <learningc> Martyn: they actually send samples?
[11:13:32] <Martyn> no, the FAE actually came over and dropped them off :)
[11:13:42] <specing> FAE?
[11:13:45] <Martyn> but yes, they do send samples to known manufacturers
[11:13:52] <Martyn> "Field Application Engineer"
[11:14:11] <Martyn> In my case, the most unusual type -- a woman in her mid-20;s :)
[11:14:33] <learningc> Martyn: was she attractive??
[11:14:34] <Martyn> It was an awesome and pleasant surprise .. there just aren't enough women in hardware engineering
[11:14:44] <Martyn> learningc : Is that at ALL important?
[11:14:52] * Martyn shakes his head
[11:14:59] <Martyn> and that's WHY there aren't more women in engineering
[11:14:59] <learningc> Martyn: of course, for good relationship
[11:15:14] <Martyn> learningc : And just for that, I'm not going to even discuss it.
[11:15:43] <Martyn> grow.the.f*ck.up
[11:15:45] <learningc> Martyn: for possible happiness as well :P
[11:17:29] <learningc> Martyn: you could connect your output port to hers
[11:19:04] <Martyn> * learningc has been placed on /ig
[11:19:27] <OndraSter> lol
[11:20:28] <Martyn> So, in any case... yeah. It took us about three hours to trace down the interrupt issues. The SAM3U misses interrupts when all the timers are in use
[11:20:59] <Martyn> it somehow slipped through testing, and the bug made it into tapeout.. it's also not trivial to fix
[11:21:17] <Martyn> there may not be a work-around for the issue other than "don't use all the timers"
[11:21:28] <OndraSter> (de)soldering and (re)manufacturing boards is not cheap :P
[11:21:31] <OndraSter> if you made it into production
[11:21:35] <learningc> Martyn: with 20K units, you could easily figure out the pinouts
[11:21:40] <OndraSter> LOL
[11:21:48] <OndraSter> and internal registers?
[11:22:00] <Martyn> Hmm? Internal registers?
[11:22:12] <OndraSter> to setup any peripheral?
[11:22:21] <Martyn> OndraSter : What are you talking about?
[11:22:51] <OndraSter> registers, like SPDR (SPI Data Register), UDR (UART Data Register) etc
[11:23:11] <Martyn> No, no, I understand what you mean.. it's just not anything to do with the timers...
[11:23:19] <Martyn> oh, wait, learningc must have said something :)
[11:23:24] <Martyn> That's the downside of /ig
[11:23:32] <Martyn> sometimes conversations seem to take sudden left turns :)
[11:23:55] <learningc> Martyn: do you have any idea of the pinouts?
[11:24:39] <specing> < Martyn> In my case, the most unusual type -- a woman in her mid-20;s :)
[11:24:44] * specing orders samples
[11:26:21] * learningc imagines a close-to-retirement FAE woman visiting specing instead
[11:26:53] <OndraSter> yeah
[11:26:59] <OndraSter> <learningc> Martyn: with 20K units, you could easily figure out the pinouts
[11:27:29] <Martyn> specing : Yeah. She really is the best example of a Dedicated Engineer. She graduated w/ a Masters in EE, at 24
[11:27:49] <Martyn> Absolutely amazing field engineer.
[11:28:42] <learningc> To Martyn: her protocol must not be easy to use
[11:29:38] <Martyn> But more importantly, she brought over the one piece of analysis equipment I lack -- a 1Ghz digital scope
[11:30:06] <Martyn> LeCroy ROCKS
[11:30:14] <nevyn> you only lack 1 piece of analysis equiptment I envy you
[11:30:19] <Martyn> We were able to capture and see the events :)
[11:30:28] <Martyn> nevyn: I do have a production lab *shrug*
[11:30:38] <Martyn> and I founded ATX Hackerspace, where there's more equipment
[11:35:14] <Martyn> But yeah, to do analysis of a chip running at ~100MHz, you need something that runs close to 10x that speed
[11:35:27] <Martyn> or you'll miss trigger events
[11:36:39] <specing> Martyn: How much does that cost for mere mortals?
[11:36:47] <Martyn> $20,000
[11:36:51] <Martyn> That's why I don't have one
[11:37:12] <Martyn> Although I'm looking in the used market like crazy for one
[11:40:49] <specing> And she caries that around?
[12:03:23] <learningc> specing: that's her bread and butter
[12:05:09] <Martyn> specing : No, she doesn't carry it around, but she probably did grab it from the Atmel HQ in San Jose
[12:05:30] <Martyn> specing : It's not that big, by the way .. it's about the size of a small microwave oven
[12:08:04] <specing> If you need a $20000 1G scope to debug a 100Mhz chip, what does intel use to debug their 4Ghz chips?
[12:08:12] <specing> 40G scopes?
[12:08:20] <specing> I wonder how much that costs
[12:11:59] <learningc> half a million?
[12:14:14] <specing> the price is nonlinear
[12:14:28] <specing> 100M scopes cost $300
[12:14:46] <specing> therefore the 1G one would be just 3k$
[12:14:53] <specing> but it is not like that
[12:15:10] <specing> I don't believe 40G scopes even exist
[12:35:39] <rue_house> if they do, pretty sure they dont use a silicon adc
[12:36:26] <rue_house> iirc tektronic used a type of cameralike tube to get their early high freq digital scopes to work
[12:38:49] <specing> 100M scopes use silicon ADC?
[12:39:03] <specing> oh wait, avr adc is 15M, isn't it?
[12:40:51] <rue_house> na
[12:40:56] <rue_house> the avr adc is about 15Khz
[12:49:21] <specing> How about xmega?
[12:49:29] <specing> 1.5M?
[12:56:09] <learningc> specing: 100GHz scope ->
http://www.lecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=18
[12:59:09] <specing> ONLY $23k?!
[12:59:55] <Tom_itx> bargain
[13:00:20] <specing> why the fuck does the 1G one cost 20K then?
[13:00:22] <learningc> Tom_itx: about the fonts, how did you get to generate them?
[13:00:28] * specing is baffled
[13:01:13] <Tom_itx> learningc a guy did that back when we were working with the 68332
[13:01:18] <Tom_itx> did they work?
[13:02:05] <Tom_itx> i dunno if he posted his work or not
[13:02:11] <learningc> Tom_itx: from a software or by hand?
[13:02:14] <Tom_itx> but he did generate a few fonts for us
[13:02:17] <Tom_itx> software
[13:02:44] <learningc> Tom_itx: any change I can get that piece of software?
[13:02:49] <learningc> chance
[13:02:55] <Tom_itx> i told you it's not mine
[13:03:05] <learningc> ah ok
[13:03:09] <Tom_itx> i will see if i can locate it however alan didn't post it i think
[13:03:11] <learningc> thanks anyway
[13:03:22] <Tom_itx> did those work?
[13:04:15] <learningc> Tom_itx: I did not try yet since they are all in a big array
[13:04:35] <Tom_itx> well they will be
[13:05:42] <learningc> Tom_itx: the font file is quite big too, so I'll have to trip it down a bit before I can fit it onto the microcontroller
[13:05:51] <learningc> *trim
[13:11:31] <specing> abcminiuser_: how does the AVR adc behave when the input voltage is higher than the measuring range? Does it report 0x1FF, does it get damaged, or does it do something else?
[13:14:21] <abcminiuser_> IIRC it just reports ADC_MAX
[13:15:40] <specing> Ah ok
[13:27:53] <OndraSter> I'd be afraid that it might "burn" the chip when it is really too high
[13:27:59] <OndraSter> or are there protecting diodes...
[13:30:26] <specing> GCC generates a disaster :/
[13:31:04] <kline> gcc: generates catastrophic calamity
[13:32:20] <RikusW> specing: what did avr-gcc do this time ? :-P
[13:32:45] <RikusW> zlog
[13:33:28] <specing> RikusW: I have some C code intermixed with a bunch of assembly and whatnot and ...
[13:33:45] <RikusW> ah
[13:33:58] <RikusW> that might be problematic....
[13:34:29] <RikusW> I have C and asm mixed, but the asm is in my bootloader...
[13:34:40] <RikusW> the app can be either C or asm
[13:35:14] <RikusW> I put a jmp table at the end of the bootloader
[13:36:49] <specing> I have the mix in the interrupt
[13:38:47] <RikusW> ADC voltage shouldn't be above VCC....
[13:39:18] <RikusW> as usual a resistor will protect the pin
[13:41:25] <OndraSter> resistor + clamping diodes...
[13:41:38] <OndraSter> there are diodes from regular IO pins to vcc
[13:41:44] <OndraSter> or at least they should in (most) atmegas
[13:42:03] <OndraSter> and some bigger resistor (few k's) in series
[13:42:05] <OndraSter> and you are done
[13:42:09] <OndraSter> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc2508.pdf
[13:42:13] <RikusW> I've seen some designs use both internal and external diodes
[13:42:25] <RikusW> and say 100k resistors
[13:42:46] <OndraSter> 100k is a lot
[13:42:50] <OndraSter> depends on the input voltage
[13:43:07] <RikusW> I've seen 100k in a working design
[13:43:15] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> depends on the input voltage
[13:43:34] <RikusW> it was an automotive pcb
[13:43:40] <OndraSter> when you are doing something that can go maybe 1 volt over, and you put there 100k resistor, there will be rather lower voltage on the pin
[13:43:45] <OndraSter> I am not sure about input impedance..
[13:43:59] <OndraSter> but I always expect it to be something like 100k - 250k
[13:45:21] <RikusW> The fence energizer user 8kV -> 300k -> (LED + reverse diode) ---> photo transistor to measure line voltage ;)
[13:48:33] <RikusW> specing: 30cm ISP cables should be ok if you lower the ISP clock...
[13:49:11] <RikusW> or just move the plug to make the cable shorter
[13:49:58] <RikusW> specing: mosi -> master out slave in (AVR = target = slave)
[13:51:52] <specing> RikusW: It works ;D
[13:52:23] <OndraSter> yeah, I have to always say loud "MASTER OUT SLAVE IN"
[13:52:27] <OndraSter> "you are my slave!"
[14:53:37] <P3X018> When programming with stk500, there is a function in the avr studio where you can vary the "Clock Generator" frequency (up to 3,686 MHz), but there is also a fuse that controls the clock, SUT_CKSEL which is set to 1 MHz from factory settings. What's the difference?
[14:54:04] <RikusW> clock generator is on the stk500 itself
[14:54:15] <RikusW> the fuses control the avr clock source
[14:54:53] <P3X018> So it's referring to the external clock??
[14:54:55] <RikusW> P3X018: you have an actual stk500 or a clone ?
[14:55:11] <P3X018> I have an actual one
[14:55:16] <RikusW> nice
[14:55:38] <RikusW> you can turn on the clock gen on the stk500 and set the fuses as external clock on the avr to use it
[14:56:13] <RikusW> warning: no avr clock == ISP disabled until a clock is supplied
[14:56:33] <P3X018> What config is needed to be set on the board? Any physical fuses that needs to be changed from standard settings?
[14:57:37] <P3X018> yeah I'm aware of the fact that things can go horribly wrong with fuses if set incorrect :/
[14:57:58] <RikusW> there is a clock jumper on the stk500 to allow a optional crystal or the at90s8535 generated clock
[14:58:23] <RikusW> since you have the stk500 you can easily use HVPP to correct it
[14:59:52] <P3X018> So I don't need to change any jumpers?
[15:00:00] <RikusW> I'd recommend you go and read the docs that come with AS4 c:/Program Files/Atmel/AVR Tools/Help
[15:00:27] <RikusW> it explains all the stk500 jumpers nicely
[15:00:33] <P3X018> ahh ok
[15:00:54] <RikusW> STK500.chm
[15:01:01] <P3X018> But in any case, is external clock preferred over the internal one?
[15:01:53] <RikusW> you might want a crystal for accuracy, otherwise it doesn't really matter
[15:02:10] <P3X018> ok
[15:02:24] <RikusW> for things like baudrate generation etc
[15:02:42] <RikusW> for lower baudrates it won't matter too much either
[15:03:14] <P3X018> 9600 should work?
[15:03:19] <P3X018> without crystal
[15:03:33] <RikusW> it should
[15:09:42] <P3X018> But there is a difference between the values of SUT_CKSEL depending on whether you use ISP or HVPP, why is that?
[15:11:05] <Tom_itx> different programming formats
[15:11:53] <RikusW> P3X018: where do you read that ?!
[15:12:15] <P3X018> I can change the value from ISP, but when I try to change it using HVPP to the same value, say EXTRCOSC_3MHz_8MHz_0MS I get failed.
[15:12:39] <P3X018> RikusW: I read the fuses using AVR Studio 5.0
[15:13:11] <RikusW> weird, on what avr is that ?
[15:13:42] <P3X018> atmega8515
[15:13:58] <RikusW> thats an oldish avr...
[15:15:09] <P3X018> stock chip..
[15:15:32] <RikusW> HVPP should be able to change any fuse settings
[15:15:50] <RikusW> are all your connections ok ?
[15:16:01] <RikusW> and does the signature read ok in HVPP mode ?
[15:16:04] <P3X018> But on HVPP, I read the fuse value to EXTHIFXTALRES_16KCK_64MS, what does it mean?
[15:16:20] <RikusW> what is the actual hex value ? 0xFF ?
[15:16:51] <RikusW> AS4's fuse descriptions are way better :-/
[15:17:06] <P3X018> yeah
[15:17:10] <P3X018> AS5 sucks
[15:17:18] <P3X018> I can't find the actual hex value
[15:17:39] <RikusW> did you connect the 2 ribbon cables for HVPP ?
[15:17:48] <RikusW> the control and data ones ?
[15:17:51] <P3X018> But Reading register HIGH/LOW are both OK
[15:17:59] <P3X018> don't know what it refers though.
[15:18:16] <P3X018> what the...
[15:18:30] <P3X018> No I haven't :|
[15:19:18] <RikusW> better go read that usermanual then ;)
[15:19:53] <P3X018> I didn't even get a user manual with my board, even though I ordered it from Atmel it self!
[15:20:22] <RikusW> HVPP is a bit faster than ISP, but the hassle of setting it up makes it only usefull for recovering wrong fuse settings
[15:20:29] <RikusW> the manual comes with AS4/5
[15:21:22] <P3X018> ok, so I guess using ISP is sufficient, and HVPP can be ignored..
[15:21:35] <RikusW> most of the time yes
[15:22:26] <RikusW> unless you manage to disable SPIEN or set RSTDSBL or DWEN fuses or set the CKSEL incorrectly
[15:22:42] <P3X018> ok then now comes my main problem, which is the fact the _delay_ms() doesn't time correct. So I was wondering how I could had set the clock incorrectly in the software..
[15:23:03] <P3X018> I see...
[15:23:34] <P3X018> _delay_ms(1000) blinks way faster than 1sec period...
[15:23:43] <RikusW> In AS5 there should be a place to set the clock the avr use
[15:24:03] <RikusW> *clock frequency
[15:27:50] <P3X018> hmm.. I've tried with WinAVR as well where you can set the clock in the Makefile, but still it gives the wrong blink-frequency.
[15:28:27] <specing> F_OSC?
[15:28:41] <specing> wrong clock?
[15:28:51] <P3X018> F_CPU
[15:28:58] <specing> _delay_ms() is unsupported for values above 300 or so
[15:29:13] <P3X018> I set it to what I read from the Clock genereator value in AS5
[15:29:33] <P3X018> ok...
[15:29:40] <specing> see _delay_ms() on the libc webpage
[15:30:36] <P3X018> Then 4 x _delay_ms(250) should be equivalent to 1 sec... still doesn't work
[15:30:46] <RikusW> P3X018: what is you low fuse hex value ?
[15:31:13] <RikusW> afaik AS5 displays the hex value too ?
[15:31:41] <P3X018> 0xD7
[15:32:12] <OndraSter> sure AS5 displays the fuse values
[15:32:32] <P3X018> yeah, so what do you want to use that value for?
[15:32:52] <OndraSter> P3X018, how much off is it?
[15:32:58] <OndraSter> the blinking f
[15:33:17] <RikusW> you're using the external RC clock, that seems wrong
[15:33:45] <RikusW> rather set lowfuse = 0xE4
[15:33:48] <P3X018> OndraSter: It's off almost by 2... but not exactly
[15:33:49] <specing> dafuq does GCC generate
[15:33:52] <RikusW> that would give you internal 8MHz
[15:33:57] <specing> const u16 val = 88;
[15:33:57] <specing> if (ADMUX & 0x1) { // Ibat channel
[15:33:57] <specing> 7e: 38 9b sbis 0x07, 0 ; 7
[15:33:57] <specing> 80: 11 c0 rjmp .+34 ; 0xa4 <__vector_14+0x46>
[15:33:57] <specing> u16 adc = ADCL | (ADCH << 8);
[15:33:59] <specing> 82: 84 b1 in r24, 0x04 ; 4
[15:34:02] <specing> 84: 95 b1 in r25, 0x05 ; 5
[15:34:04] <specing> 86: 39 2f mov r19, r25
[15:34:07] <specing> 88: 20 e0 ldi r18, 0x00 ; 0
[15:34:09] <specing> 8a: 90 e0 ldi r25, 0x00 ; 0
[15:34:12] <specing> 8c: 82 2b or r24, r18
[15:34:14] <specing> 8e: 93 2b or r25, r19
[15:34:17] <specing> if ( (adc - val) > 0 ) // adc > val
[15:34:19] <specing> 90: 88 35 cpi r24, 0x58 ; 88
[15:34:22] <specing> 92: 91 05 cpc r25, r1
[15:34:23] <RikusW> specing: pastebin ?!
[15:34:24] <specing> 94: 09 f4 brne .+2 ; 0x98 <__vector_14+0x3a>
[15:34:27] <specing> 96: 34 c0 rjmp .+104 ; 0x100 <__vector_14+0xa2>
[15:34:29] <specing> ++OCR1AL;
[15:34:31] <OndraSter> lol
[15:34:32] * specing is seriously not impressed
[15:34:35] <specing> Hmm, thought it was shorter
[15:34:41] <P3X018> RikusW: But my Clock Generator read 3,686 MHz, which is the maximum value I can set it to.
[15:34:44] <OndraSter> that's what she said, specing :D
[15:35:05] * specing slaps OndraSter around with a large trout
[15:35:13] <RikusW> P3X018: lowfuse = 0xE4 will use the internal RC osc
[15:35:18] <RikusW> at 8MHz
[15:35:23] <P3X018> ok
[15:35:29] <OndraSter> 3,686Mhz... where does that come from? isn't that programming freq?
[15:36:07] <RikusW> stk500 clockgen
[15:36:14] <sabesto> I'm doing an AVR course for 30-50 university college students, and i wonder if anyone would care to comment on the first 2 tasks i wrote:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/47833678/session1_task1.c and
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/47833678/session1_task2.c
[15:37:13] <OndraSter> sabesto, using custom student boards? :)
[15:37:34] <sabesto> OndraSter: no, xplained 1284p
[15:37:37] <OndraSter> ah
[15:37:40] <P3X018> RikusW: But I don't achieve anything by simply changing the system-clock.
[15:37:47] <specing> sabesto: where is the task?
[15:37:57] <specing> you've pretty much made all the code yourself
[15:38:01] <sabesto> specing: the two links
[15:38:16] <RikusW> P3X018: then you know it is at 8MHz and need to change the setting in AS5
[15:38:37] <sabesto> i could pastebin if you like, but it tends to fuck up the format
[15:38:51] <OndraSter> sabesto, depends on how dumb do you expect them to be :D
[15:38:57] <specing> sabesto: what is the task, sbi(PORTx, LED) in the first placeholder and cbi(PORTx, LED) in the second?
[15:39:01] <RikusW> low fuse = 0xE0 would be the proper setting to supplying an external clock btw
[15:39:28] <P3X018> RikusW: wauw excellent, that works now...
[15:39:37] <specing> sabesto: and (PINB & SW) in if?
[15:39:40] <OndraSter> specing, and ~PINB & SW
[15:39:44] <OndraSter> active low :)
[15:39:54] <P3X018> Guess I just don't know the clock of the system... How do you find out which value is set
[15:39:54] <RikusW> P3X018: nice, the E4 setting ?
[15:39:58] <sabesto> specing: first setup the ports, then what you said only inverse
[15:40:12] <sabesto> maybe i should make it more clear where the missing code is?
[15:40:18] <specing> -.-
[15:40:18] <OndraSter> MORE clear?
[15:40:23] <OndraSter> it can't get any more clearer IMHO
[15:40:31] <specing> Maybe you should bring napkins and wipe, too
[15:40:41] <P3X018> RikusW: Yeah the E4
[15:40:43] <OndraSter> :D
[15:40:54] <RikusW> P3X018: you could read the datasheet for the cksel bits, or use AS4 because its descriptions is much better
[15:41:14] <sabesto> i got people who never written code along people who have had a one year course, but a lot of them struggle with basic bitwise operations
[15:41:36] <RikusW> P3X018: I use my own app for fuse calculation and programming, its for Qt in Linux
[15:41:36] <specing> How old are these people?
[15:41:41] <sabesto> session 2 will be timers and pwm, session 3 adc and uart
[15:42:05] <sabesto> anywhere from 19 to 35
[15:42:19] <OndraSter> is it some IT/EE school?
[15:42:36] <OndraSter> ah I see
[15:42:37] <OndraSter> college
[15:42:38] <OndraSter> uni
[15:42:47] <OndraSter> well... is it some IT/EE uni?
[15:42:51] <sabesto> bachlor in electronics and industrial instrumentation, 2.nd year
[15:43:02] <OndraSter> I doubt they can be _this_ dumb
[15:43:09] <OndraSter> what country if I may ask? :D
[15:43:17] <OndraSter> we had absolutely different requirements when we were doing ARM this year
[15:43:22] <OndraSter> middle (high) school, last year
[15:43:23] <P3X018> RikusW: Sweet... and yeah of course there is the datasheet, but it's not very friendly when it comes to fuses.
[15:43:25] <sabesto> norway
[15:43:30] <OndraSter> people 18 - 19 yo
[15:43:49] <sabesto> OndraSter: problem is, many of them has fallen off because they got a bad start
[15:43:53] <RikusW> P3X018: unfortunately the datasheet requires some effort yes...
[15:44:08] <sabesto> OndraSter: i'm in 1.st class :P
[15:44:33] <RikusW> P3X018: do you use Linux too ?
[15:44:46] <OndraSter> first lesson was simple, we were given prepared base (about 200 lines in asm initializing SPI and what not) and our task was to read switches status (they were on 165s, ergo read via SPI), and light LEDs the same way the switches were ON + the same but 3 LEDs to the left :)
[15:45:07] <P3X018> RikusW: Yeah partially.. At the moment I'm using windows
[15:45:18] <OndraSter> ergo SPI load, make copy of the incoming data, shift 3 bits to the left (right), AND it amongst them and send back to SPI
[15:45:22] <OndraSter> in ASM that was
[15:45:34] <OndraSter> sounds simple
[15:45:51] <sabesto> OndraSter: shure, i could do that and noone would show up on the 2.nd day
[15:45:57] <RikusW> P3X018:
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home --> click on supporting sw -> RavrProg
[15:46:01] <OndraSter> lol sabesto
[15:46:17] <OndraSter> well at least those who show up will appear to have actually some interest in it
[15:46:20] <sabesto> OndraSter: i have asked many of them and this is where they are at
[15:46:22] <OndraSter> it is good filter :)
[15:46:31] <RikusW> P3X018: its fairly easy to compile in Linux, but I'm having a bit of trouble in windows
[15:46:53] <sabesto> OndraSter: well, they should have learned how to read the ADC, then send the value in ascii using the uart
[15:47:02] <OndraSter> the uni I am going to has supposedly low requirements, first semester is pretty much (for me) repetition of middle school electronics/IT
[15:47:10] <OndraSter> sabesto, hmm... still too easy IMHO
[15:47:26] <sabesto> OndraSter: yes, but what can i do in 3 evenings
[15:47:32] <OndraSter> oh only 3?
[15:47:45] <sabesto> i'm no teacher, i'm doing this for free
[15:47:49] <OndraSter> ohh
[15:47:51] <OndraSter> okay then :)
[15:47:54] <OndraSter> I thought you were teacher :)
[15:48:06] <sabesto> no, i'm in 1.st year
[15:48:21] <sabesto> havent even learned about uC's
[15:48:26] <RikusW> and teaching 2nd years ?
[15:48:39] <P3X018> RikusW: Cool I'll have a look. Though using WinAVR in Windows to compile the code with specific settings is pretty straight forward. Only AS5 is turning out to be quite painful to use.
[15:49:09] <OndraSter> RikusW, as long as he knows his business, why not? :)
[15:49:13] <sabesto> though i'm responsible for the workshop at the student club (or whatever its called)
[15:49:34] <OndraSter> I've been teaching myself often IT stuff :(
[15:49:35] <OndraSter> older people
[15:49:41] <OndraSter> than me
[15:49:42] <RikusW> P3X018: get AS4 then ?
[15:50:01] <sabesto> and i want to spark some interest in digital electronics
[15:50:20] <P3X018> RikusW: Yeah considering it. Just thought that AS5 would have more features (and looks better :P)
[15:50:31] <sabesto> starting up a project with a touchscreen, RFID reader (we got rfid student ID's), barcode reader
[15:50:53] <sabesto> so we can unlock the lockers for the tools, buy soda and such
[15:51:09] <RikusW> P3X018: I still prefer AS4, my app almost looks like the AS4 programming dialog, it works with stk500 (most atmel avr programmers)
[15:51:48] <sabesto> OndraSter: because you are fucked if you only go to classes and listen to the teacher and do the required work
[15:52:23] <OndraSter> yeah, I am myself interested in all this, so whenever somebody asks for something and I reply, they ask "how come that I know it"
[15:52:27] <OndraSter> stuff that nobody ever told us
[15:52:47] <OndraSter> it is just something that drills in my head "how does that work" or "wait, that can't be used nowadays, it would be slow"
[15:52:50] <OndraSter> I just HAVE to look it up
[15:52:53] <OndraSter> otherwise I can't sleep :P
[15:53:07] <sabesto> i'm surprised how few use the workshop to do projects
[15:53:45] <OndraSter> we don't have workshops here at all
[15:53:48] <sabesto> we got SMD, PCB CNC, 50k usd worth of AVR's
[15:53:55] <OndraSter> wow
[15:54:08] <sabesto> yet only 10 out of 200 come to do projects
[15:55:09] <sabesto> and they plan to work as engineers without any interest
[15:56:10] <OndraSter> :o)
[15:56:54] <sabesto> but i hope i can spark some interest with this course and the planned projects
[15:57:17] <OndraSter> :)
[15:57:29] <OndraSter> I found out that 8bit is starting to be... not enough
[15:57:37] <OndraSter> I had to work with 16bit data and it was painnnn
[15:57:42] <OndraSter> in my last project
[15:58:10] <sabesto> yeah, i've started to learn the ASF stuff
[15:58:15] <OndraSter> sure in C
[15:58:21] <OndraSter> but I am doing it in asm :)
[15:58:38] <RikusW> OndraSter: 16bit add isn't that bad
[15:58:42] <sabesto> well, this is a hobby for me, i'm not aiming for such a job
[15:58:47] <RikusW> but mul, well...
[15:58:50] <OndraSter> RikusW, sure I had macros for it
[15:59:04] <OndraSter> sabesto, I am aiming for such job after uni
[15:59:22] <OndraSter> (= another 4 or 6 years, depends on whether I will end up with bachelor or engineer degree)
[15:59:28] <OndraSter> err, bachelor or doctor
[15:59:30] <sabesto> i dont want to rip my hair out over asm yet
[16:00:03] <sabesto> isnt bachlor 3, master 5 and doctor 7 or something?
[16:00:37] <OndraSter> depends on country
[16:00:46] <OndraSter> bachelor is 4 here
[16:00:50] <OndraSter> wait, master vs doctor
[16:00:54] <OndraSter> maybe the names are different
[16:01:07] <OndraSter> I think it is 4 bachelor, +2 doctor, +3 professor
[16:01:12] <OndraSter> but i wouldn't bet my guts on it
[16:01:17] <sabesto> "...but can range anywhere from three to six years depending on the region of the world"
[16:01:22] <sabesto> bachlor that is
[16:01:40] <sabesto> bachlor is 3, master 5 in norway
[16:01:41] <OndraSter> :)
[16:02:11] <sabesto> doctor is the highest degree
[16:02:19] <OndraSter> oh
[16:02:23] <OndraSter> you use different names then
[16:03:05] <sabesto> doctor is the highest degree possible anywhere wikipedia says, who knows
[16:04:17] <sabesto> its just a degree anyway, real learning starts when you finish and start working
[16:04:17] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:04:24] <OndraSter> what is professor then?
[16:04:44] <sabesto> professor is a teacher with doctor degree maybe?
[16:05:25] <OndraSter> I think that we have professor as the last degree here
[16:13:36] <Landon> professor is just a position here
[16:14:21] <Landon> I've had associate professors with masters degrees
[16:53:32] <Tom_itx> learningc,
[16:53:39] <Tom_itx> i found several more fonts
[16:57:39] <Tom_itx> i put them in that same directory
[16:57:43] <Tom_itx> if you're interested
[17:00:48] <learningc> Tom_itx: yes, I am interested, thanks buddy
[17:01:08] <Tom_itx> i found them on the old yahoo site for the 68332
[17:01:21] <Tom_itx> there's probably a dozen of em there now
[17:01:30] <learningc> Tom_itx: it would help if you can get your hand on that software that coonverts the fonts though
[17:01:46] <Tom_itx> i haven't heard from him in years
[17:02:07] <learningc> ah ok, thanks anyway :)
[17:03:51] <Tom_itx> fonts take memory so you probably only wanna load what you use
[17:07:20] <specing> Guys, I think I've made it
[17:07:34] <specing> built my first ever working SMPS
[17:07:44] <Tom_itx> good stuff
[17:07:48] <OndraSter> wow
[17:07:51] <OndraSter> congrats :)
[17:08:10] <OndraSter> I built few... one booster with about 180V output (for nixies), one regular 3V3 out
[17:08:19] <OndraSter> and probably something else in my past
[17:08:37] <specing> Have you done it with an AVR or with dedicated chips?
[17:08:55] <OndraSter> dedicated chips ofc
[17:08:57] <Tom_itx> specing is yours avr based?
[17:09:14] <OndraSter> MC34063 for the nixies and TI TPS54527 for the 3V3 one
[17:09:26] <specing> Tom_itx: Yes
[17:09:27] <OndraSter> and I have got UC3845 (I think?) here few times that I used when I needed
[17:09:35] <specing> atmega8 + MOSFET
[17:09:55] <Tom_itx> you should write it up and post it
[17:10:03] <specing> I have looked at the AVRBC100 for hardware tips, but the code is all mine
[17:10:28] <OndraSter> specing, what freq does it do the PWM?
[17:11:07] <Tom_itx> that would be a good project for a attiny10 i bet
[17:11:11] <specing> 16uS
[17:11:35] <Tom_itx> it's got a 16bit timer and adc
[17:11:38] <specing> Tom_itx: probably, my code is currently at 500 bytes
[17:12:37] <specing> I'd rather move it to an ATmega8u4 or similar, since it is meant to charge batteries from the USB port and report back the status through the python UI
[17:13:15] <Tom_itx> mmm
[17:13:27] <Tom_itx> good one for my 32u4 board :)
[17:14:08] <Tom_itx> overkill but it's built
[17:15:25] <specing> I should get some of those, yes
[17:15:47] <specing> Someone should make a bus pirate kind of ATmega32u4 board
[17:16:02] <OndraSter> mega32 is 16 or 20MHz
[17:16:13] <OndraSter> it would make barely upto 10 or 8MHz signals
[17:16:15] <OndraSter> not worth it :)
[17:16:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[17:16:26] <specing> ISP, PDI, TPI, (JTAG), dw programmer + UART, SPI, I2C, 1w bridge + voltmeter all in one
[17:16:34] <OndraSter> I ment digital logic scope
[17:16:38] <OndraSter> analyzer
[17:17:27] <OndraSter> I am planning on building some high frequency logic scope (and possibly some simple analog scope with fast 8bit ADC(s) with some FPGA and some SPI/UART -> USB... USB equipped FPGAs are hard to get :))
[17:17:32] <OndraSter> with FPGA
[17:17:44] <OndraSter> as a test
[17:17:52] <OndraSter> to learn with FPGAs :)
[17:19:27] <specing> Maybe what I said above would be more appropriate for an XMEGA?
[17:19:44] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:19:48] <OndraSter> that was my original idea :)
[17:19:48] <specing> $10 all in one hacking platform?
[17:21:02] <specing> DEAAAAAAAAANnnnnnnn, do it :D
[17:21:38] <OndraSter> :D :D :D
[17:23:28] <Tom_itx> usb enabled xmega?
[17:23:48] <OndraSter> actually FT232 (or 245?) + mega32d4 was cheaper :)
[17:23:59] <OndraSter> but it wouldn't be good for specing 's purpose
[17:25:16] <specing> Im going to get some xmegas soon
[17:25:32] <Tom_itx> get the new ones
[17:26:58] <specing> Which ones?
[17:27:19] <specing> well nwm
[17:27:19] <Tom_itx> iirc they are usb enabled
[17:27:25] <Tom_itx> ask abcminiuser_ for sure
[17:27:27] <specing> I'll look when the time comes
[17:27:48] <Tom_itx> i say those since supposedly they are 'fixed'
[17:27:55] <OndraSter> yeah they are
[17:28:01] <OndraSter> mega32a3u (a4u?)
[17:28:06] <OndraSter> USB enabled, fixed revs
[17:28:13] <OndraSter> 2Msps dual ADC/DAC
[17:28:26] <specing> Actually I need to stockpile a $100 order so the shipping is a relatively small percentage of the final cost
[17:28:48] <OndraSter> :D
[17:28:55] <specing> I'd do a group order with my classmates, but they are all uninterested/lazy
[17:29:04] <OndraSter> I can order from mouser without paying any shipping for any price actually :P
[17:29:10] <OndraSter> we have local reseller
[17:29:17] <specing> cool
[17:29:19] <OndraSter> and they have their house not far from prague
[17:29:37] <OndraSter> but it is outside of Prague
[17:29:43] <OndraSter> maybe $6 shipping would be more suitable choice :P
[17:29:47] <specing> Well I live in the middle of nowhere, so...
[17:29:53] <OndraSter> but... no Altera FPGAs on mouser!
[17:30:00] <specing> Ha-ha
[17:30:06] <OndraSter> then there is farnell
[17:30:13] <OndraSter> they have alteras, they have local reseller here
[17:30:18] <OndraSter> BUT the prices are terrible
[17:30:20] <specing> My last $100 batch was from farnell
[17:30:43] <OndraSter> and the last one is digikey, they have alteras, their prices are compared to farnell absolutely low but... no reseller here
[17:31:11] <specing> Then there is capnkernel :D
[17:31:18] <OndraSter> :D
[17:31:25] <OndraSter> not sure if he can supply original Altera FPGAs :)
[17:31:41] <specing> I don't mind fakes, as long as they work
[17:31:44] <OndraSter> heh
[17:31:50] <OndraSter> I Do, because FPGAs are not as easy to manufacture
[17:32:15] <OndraSter> also there is EPCS4 which costs like $13
[17:32:21] <OndraSter> half megabyte flash ?!
[17:32:30] <OndraSter> that is used with the Altera FPGAs ?!
[17:32:39] <OndraSter> the FPGA itself is cheaper lol
[17:38:04] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, ask me what?
[17:39:09] <Tom_itx> about the new xmega chips
[17:39:23] <Martyn> "new"
[17:39:31] <Tom_itx> usb enabled
[17:42:58] <RikusW> Martyn: so can those 2 IO's be used only as serial IO or as gpio too ?
[17:43:39] <RikusW> it sure would be nice if it can act as SPI
[18:20:48] <Martyn> GPIO
[18:20:52] <Martyn> afaik
[18:21:01] <Martyn> and so they can be TWI, SPI, blink two lights...
[18:21:10] <Martyn> of course, using them to blink lights is the most inefficent use :)
[18:56:45] <Martyn> Yay!
[18:56:58] <Martyn> SAM4S working pretty damned nicelyt
[19:13:09] * Tom_itx salutes
[19:27:00] <Metalsutton> Hey
[19:28:49] <Metalsutton> I have created a small board with sone wires going from usb to a usb hub. Its only detecting it as a usb 1 low speed port. Does anyone know how to bring it up to usb 2.0? Do i just twist the data lines?
