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[01:28:15] <CapnKernel> It's just occurred to me that OndraSter's LEDs have a special "HCF" feature:
http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/HCF.html
[02:07:40] <Casper> CapnKernel: which mean?
[02:07:49] <Casper> oh lol
[02:07:53] <CapnKernel> :-)
[02:09:11] <Casper> I wonder if intel kept that/included it in core2/i3/i5/i7
[02:09:44] <Casper> could be "fun" for virus to use it
[02:09:53] <CapnKernel> If Dean's comments about the i7 are to be believed, it's a case of "halt and stop catching fire"
[02:10:59] <Casper> thing is, let's suppose there is an instruction to do that...
[02:11:10] <Casper> those cpu also have a thermal protection
[02:11:27] <Casper> so would intel used the thermal protection in the "catch fire" instruction? :D
[02:12:54] <CapnKernel> AFAIK Intel never had an HCF
[02:13:21] <CapnKernel> The jargon file doesn't say this, but my guess is that the term HCF is much older than computing
[02:13:49] <CapnKernel> There are many examples of machinery which has HCF failure modes
[02:13:53] <CapnKernel> For example, movie projectors
[02:14:13] <Casper> keep lamp on, close shutter
[02:14:30] <Casper> keep lamp on, stop film
[02:14:43] <ziph> Anything involving solenoids that are pulsed is often designed so that continuous DC will cause a HCF (e.g. dot matrix printers).
[02:14:51] <CapnKernel> yep
[02:15:18] <CapnKernel> Need high current in order to move the pins fast enough, but DC at that high current is Vbad[tm]
[02:30:47] <Casper> that's why sometime they use a capacitor in series
[02:31:01] <inflex> lo folks
[02:31:01] <ziph> I know of at least one that didn't
[02:31:15] <ziph> They had to recall a whoooole load of EFTPOS terminals.
[02:31:35] <ziph> (Due to a software bug that would cause the printer to cook itself)
[02:31:49] <ziph> inflex: 'lo.
[02:33:20] <Casper> :D
[02:36:42] <CapnKernel> inflex: hi there
[02:37:00] <CapnKernel> I'm back in Oz. Feels foyne
[02:51:14] <Casper> CapnKernel: no more china?
[02:51:52] <CapnKernel> Not on the current visa. It is an ex-visa :-)
[02:52:09] <Casper> you should get mastercard instead :D
[02:52:24] <CapnKernel> Yep, I'll be sure to try that next time I'm at the border.
[02:52:52] <CapnKernel> My family lives in Australia, and they need me. My usual cycle is 3 months in China, 1 month here. This time it's just 2+2, that's all.
[02:53:22] <CapnKernel> I will concentrate on PCBs for the moment, this aspect of my business desperately needs some TLC
[02:53:32] <CapnKernel> And I don't need to be in China for it
[02:54:26] <CapnKernel> Once I've got that under control, I'll see if I can get another visa and take it from there.
[02:54:29] <CapnKernel> There's always a way.
[02:54:56] <CapnKernel> People have told me that China is so anal about following its own rules, that they are pretty dumb about their matching. Change passport, they don't notice it's the same guy.
[02:55:05] <CapnKernel> So there's always that.
[02:55:27] <CapnKernel> Most important thing for me is not how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up, dust yourself off, and keep going.
[02:55:57] <CapnKernel> Dinner time, back later.
[02:56:22] <inflex> feck me.... all my WD320 Scorpio blue drives are dying
[02:56:28] <inflex> even the 500GB one
[02:57:37] <Casper> our store stopped trusting the blue
[02:58:14] <inflex> I've got the odd dead drive in an enclosure, but I expect that due to the pisspoor thermal control in there
[02:58:26] <inflex> but damn, I'm seeing these dead drives popping up in so many laptops
[02:58:34] <inflex> I've only managed to get one of them RMA'd :(
[02:59:11] <Casper> how come? out of waranty?
[02:59:16] <Casper> or out of region?
[03:00:49] <Casper> if out of region, try "usa" and "online purchase"
[03:03:05] <inflex> I put in Australia as the location
[03:03:10] <inflex> I think they're just too dated
[03:03:21] <inflex> all of them are factory installs
[03:03:26] <Casper> ah
[03:03:32] <Casper> 1 year waranty then
[03:03:33] <Casper> and
[03:03:37] <inflex> sheeseh, 13 March, 2010... so yeah
[03:03:45] <Casper> anyway since it came with a laptop... you can't return them to WD
[03:03:51] <Casper> even if it was days old
[03:03:57] <inflex> oh really - didn't realise that
[03:04:03] <inflex> explains a fair bit
[03:04:22] <Casper> WD sell them the drive cheaper, and offer no waranty
[03:04:29] <inflex> Figures
[03:04:40] <inflex> the one I did get RMA'd was a replacement of the factory drive... and died
[03:04:47] <Casper> so the compagny (hp, dell, whatever) are the one responsable for it
[03:05:05] <Casper> maybe user error?
[03:05:16] <Casper> I've seen that happend at our store...
[03:05:35] <inflex> not sure - WD already replaced it, it's coming back via FedEx
[03:06:32] <Casper> brand new hd in laptop... few weeks later defect... replace... few weeks later defect again... RMA and wait... few weeks later.. DEFECT... on her way out we found why: she knocked her back pack on the door quite hard
[03:07:03] <inflex> dooooh
[03:07:14] <Casper> yup
[03:07:32] <Casper> also she came in with the laptop, in her back pack, powered up
[03:07:35] <inflex> I'm thinking the same has happened here btw
[03:07:50] <Casper> she actually disabled somehow the sleep mode
[03:07:53] <inflex> drive only had 700hrs on it
[03:08:13] <Casper> so not only the laptop get knocked, but it also overheat
[03:08:20] <inflex> yep
[03:08:22] <Casper> and get knocked while running
[03:08:29] <inflex> overheating has claimed at least 3 of the drives
[03:10:11] <Casper> iirc, hitachi drives used to be nice
[03:10:22] <Casper> you were launching the test and...
[03:10:37] <Casper> a big FAIL appear with: EXCESSIVE SHOCK
[03:10:59] <Casper> they put a gforce sensor in it
[03:11:06] <Casper> which I think all drive should have
[03:11:38] <inflex> and a temp sensor
[03:12:09] <inflex> hrmm... curious... just realised, this drive from the laptop has a sticker on it with the client's name... either it has been replaced prior... or Dell does this during builds/assembly?
[03:12:17] <inflex> (really thought they'd use barcoding)
[03:12:34] <Casper> or it wasn't done by dell
[03:12:40] <Casper> but a third party store
[03:15:20] <Casper> bed time, see ya
[03:15:25] <inflex> yeah, a bit odd... might have been part of the dell warranty service, whcih interestingly is showing up with still 1 year left
[03:24:13] <Roklobsta> capnkernel: so what's the plan now?
[03:24:21] <Roklobsta> don't OD on the cheese and bread
[03:26:25] <Roklobsta> capn: oh read history buffer. ok, so you're not down and out. good to hear.
[03:36:38] <CapnKernel> Roklobsta: I want cheap PCBs for all :-)
[03:37:00] <CapnKernel> I just put in a PCB for their 24h service, we'll see what happens :-)
[03:39:27] <Roklobsta> sweet
[03:39:58] <Roklobsta> let china deal with all the copper chloride byproducts
[03:49:20] <mapee> morning
[03:56:21] <Roklobsta> evening
[04:05:46] <CapnKernel> Roklobsta: The factories recover the copper using electrolysis.
[04:09:36] <molavy> hi
[04:09:36] <tobbor> hi molavy.
[04:14:11] <molavy> i have problem about going to store for each part i need, i think at every return i have anything i need, but when i start make board i find something is missing,store is so far,
[04:14:33] <ziph> molavy: What kind of parts?
[04:15:23] <molavy> how can i find a list of electronic components,that fit must of my need
[04:16:08] <ziph> Buy component kits from eBay for passives if you're just doing hobby work.
[04:16:09] <molavy> i am newcomer
[04:17:04] <molavy> diode ,resistor's,capacitor's,...
[04:17:25] <ziph> Yeah, you'll be able to find cheap resistor and capacitor kits easily.
[04:17:32] <ziph> Diodes you only need a few.
[04:26:06] <Valen> 1004 diodes do *everything* ;->
[04:26:34] <Valen> but yeah, get a kit of resistors, then when you run out of the 20 or 50 of that value, get 200 or 500 or whatever
[05:10:04] <specing> My m8u2 avrispmkii programmer just stops on avrdude: erasing chip
[05:10:26] <specing> avrdude: stk500v2_recv_mk2: error in USB receive
[05:10:29] <specing> dafuq?
[05:15:02] <specing> I've used -B 154.37 as suggest in some online forum, but now it takes waay longer than the USBtinyISP to program and it has content missmatches too
[05:18:50] <specing> (this is dean's code)
[05:21:05] <specing> Hmm
[05:21:23] <specing> I guess Im not retireing my tiny yet
[05:48:12] <specing> Hmm
[05:48:28] <specing> -B 10 seems to go without errors
[06:15:54] <DexterLB> how should I set up the SDA and SCL pins (input/output?) to use TWI?
[06:16:04] <OndraSter> aren't they managed automatically?
[06:16:39] <DexterLB> well I guess so, but my i2c is not working so I'm shooting blind :D
[06:25:47] <cyanide> forza ferrari
[06:27:11] <nevdull> dexterlb: the i2c network should have a pair of pull-up resistors, too, if you're missing those.
[06:53:36] <specing> Hmm
[07:40:31] <specing> Does anyone know what would cause GCC not to output the vectors array code (rjmps) when compiling source files separately and linking object files together?
[07:41:03] <specing> It does output it if I compile with gcc first.c second.c third.c
[07:44:16] <killit2> Im trying to calculate the correct UBRR for serial communications and my math is not working out (in code that is.. manually it works fine)... Can anyone enlighten me as to what I am doing wrong?
http://ideone.com/FbFAH
[07:44:36] <killit2> Im sure its a bit shift thing or something else stupid
[08:08:36] <CapnKernel> ziph: If you ever wanted an input into what to put into "starting out" assorted mixes of components, I'm all ears.
[08:09:00] <CapnKernel> (Except I'm going to bed now. ntl;dwr!
[08:09:17] <CapnKernel> (That's "not too long; definitely will read!)
[08:10:12] <specing> CapnKernel: providing assorted mixes could be good for your business :D
[08:14:51] <CapnKernel> y
[08:15:41] <CapnKernel> you're welcome to give me ebay links, for example "I like what this guy does, I bought some of them but i) what was he thinking when he included X, and ii) would have been better if he'd also included Y"
[08:31:47] <specing> CapnKernel: But if we bought it already, we wouldn't buy it again, would we? :D
[08:33:07] <mrfrenzy> CapnKernel: have you fixed the visa thingy?
[09:13:16] <OndraSter> fine, 5 pages of documentation filled with the display timer interrupt LOL
[09:13:21] <OndraSter> 15 pages DONE
[09:13:22] <OndraSter> lmao
[09:15:12] <mrfrenzy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYW5G2kbrKk&list=UU7W2f5n5vYfM7TYVir3iPGw&index=1&feature=plcp
[10:18:32] <Tom_itx> specing, his code fits in a m8?
[10:18:47] <specing> ya
[10:19:02] <specing> I had to disable pretty much everything except SPI though
[10:19:08] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[10:19:12] <Tom_itx> i was gonna say...
[10:19:17] <specing> :D
[10:19:36] <specing> I flashed it a while back though
[10:20:02] <specing> Do you happen to know if it supports having a serial channel besides programming?
[10:20:17] <specing> Im quite sick of having all those cables around
[10:20:18] <Tom_itx> it should
[10:20:38] <Tom_itx> however it uses the serial for TPI PDI
[10:20:41] <phatina> anyone with zigbit experience?
[10:20:56] <Tom_itx> phatina, it looks cool
[10:21:01] <Tom_itx> would like to
[10:21:13] <Tom_itx> that's the ethernet chip right?
[10:21:26] <phatina> Tom_itx, no, zigbee radio module
[10:21:35] <Tom_itx> ahh nevermind then
[10:21:56] * Tom_itx needs another shot of cafine
[11:10:16] <nn7> anyone here have some experience with the power down sleep mode on the atmegas?
[11:10:52] <nn7> I have a program that's designed to wake up on an external rising edge, collect some data, and go back to sleep
[11:11:58] <nn7> it does that successfully at least once, if you do it soon (within maybe 5 seconds of power on), you can get multiple cycles out of it
[11:12:23] <nn7> eventually it just stops waking up, often times after the first cycle because I'm looking at the data and not retriggering it
[11:12:48] <nn7> I have replaced the sleep code with a while (!flag) and it works indefinitely
[11:13:04] <nn7> so it really seems to not be waking back up
[11:14:51] <rue_house> nn7, hmm
[11:14:59] <rue_house> what are you using to wake it up?
[11:15:02] <rue_house> the interrupt?
[11:15:04] <nn7> INT0
[11:15:24] <nn7> google is now telling me that INT0 needs a clock, so it won't work in powerdown
[11:15:35] <nn7> the datasheet says "For INT0, only level interrupt."
[11:15:43] <nn7> but isn't clear on what that means
[11:15:43] <rue_house> hmm
[11:15:57] <rue_house> what avr?
[11:16:02] <nn7> 644p
[11:16:24] <rue_house> shower, biab
[11:17:41] <hamman> has anyone here bought any cheap microcontrollers from china on ebay?
[11:17:57] <hamman> I wonder do these devices actually program and function
[11:18:06] <Tom_itx> don't go cheap if it's for life support
[11:18:22] <hamman> its just for non-serious hobby stuff
[11:18:33] <Tom_itx> that's some serious stuff man
[11:18:48] <specing> lol
[11:19:01] <hamman> I seen you can buy a PIC delievered to your desk for <1 euro
[11:19:20] <hamman> hehe :D
[11:19:45] <Tom_itx> nn7, still fighting the external wakeup trigger/
[11:19:46] <Tom_itx> ?
[11:19:56] <nn7> finally getting back to it
[11:20:07] <nn7> I'm a bit confused
[11:20:09] <hamman> I hope the chinese make some avr clones cheap soon...
[11:20:23] <nn7> because I stripped down a test case that just went to sleep and woke back up, and that worked indefinitely
[11:20:38] <hamman> Im tempted to buy these cheap PIC's - anyone ever hear about anyone buying them?
[11:20:39] <nn7> then tried my full program with a wait loop rather than sleep, and that worked
[11:37:47] <nn7> ok this is interesting, SLEEP_MODE_IDLE does the same thing
[11:55:07] <nn7> "Low level interrupts and the edge interrupt on INT2:0 are
[11:55:08] <nn7> detected asynchronously. This implies that these interrupts can be used for waking the part also
[11:55:08] <nn7> from sleep modes other than Idle mode."
[11:55:15] <nn7> :/
[12:13:52] <nn7> ok, I've tried idle mode and tried changing which interrupt
[12:14:09] <nn7> I've also done further experimenting and I can't find any single factor that causes it to stop waking up
[12:14:19] <nn7> nothing repeatable so far
[12:18:53] <nn7> ah ha! if I leave the external interrupt high or low through my whole data sampling period, it will always wake back up
[12:19:13] <nn7> if I go from high to low (one transition), it will wake up
[12:19:29] <nn7> multiple transitions will typically cause it to not wake back up
[12:22:45] <nn7> fuck it, is there a way to just make the AVR reset itself?
[12:38:36] <OndraSter> watchdog
[13:59:34] <nn7> in case anyone else has issues
[13:59:48] <nn7> the avr-libc manual states, "the sleep_mode() macro might cause race conditions in some situations"
[13:59:58] <nn7> bypassing the macro seems to have eliminated my problems
[15:50:54] <CapnKernel> mrfrenzy: No, the visa thingy fixed me.
[15:51:23] <CapnKernel> (Back in Australia now)
[16:03:44] <cyanide> whats a good accelerometer with i2c output?
[16:03:51] <cyanide> apart from the adxl345
[16:04:23] <cyanide> goddamn the temperature here
[16:05:04] <cyanide> 25c+, ~90% humidity
[16:05:23] <CapnKernel> ?
[16:05:50] <cyanide> ?
[16:06:00] <OndraSter> !
[16:06:16] <CapnKernel> summer here: 40C+, 70%RH
[16:06:33] <cyanide> i sweat. A LOT.
[16:06:35] <CapnKernel> summer in SZ: 30C+, 90%RH
[16:06:56] <cyanide> we're worse man
[16:06:59] <CapnKernel> I hate summer in SZ, esp w/ no aircon
[16:07:01] <cyanide> you cannot compare indian summers
[16:07:06] <cyanide> with anything
[16:07:19] <CapnKernel> venus?
[16:07:20] <cyanide> we're the tropical people
[16:10:54] <RikusW> 22.8C only 44%RH
[16:12:26] <CapnKernel> cyanide: Why I2C and not SPI?
[16:12:40] <cyanide> either will do
[16:12:54] <CapnKernel> I2C is a little slower
[16:32:23] <mrfrenzy> CapnKernel: sorry to hear, you have some idea of a solution?
[16:34:36] <CapnKernel> I will try again in two months
[16:34:54] <CapnKernel> Grr
[16:35:04] <CapnKernel> My monitor has a VGA port and a DVI port
[16:35:14] <CapnKernel> The DVI port gives back EDID info, but the VGA port doesn't
[16:35:21] <OndraSter> I am sure that TWI is fast enough for accelerometer :)
[16:35:29] <OndraSter> even phones have accelerometer and compass and what not on I2C
[16:35:48] <OndraSter> ... and VGA info is I2C too :)
[16:35:52] <OndraSter> I think
[16:35:57] <CapnKernel> So my computers don't do more than 1024x768 on the VGA port
[16:35:59] <CapnKernel> Yeah it is
[16:36:12] <CapnKernel> So tempted to write something which speaks I2C and lies about the EDID
[16:36:16] <OndraSter> :D
[16:36:22] <CapnKernel> Just replays the EDID from the DVI.
[16:36:25] <OndraSter> one small attiny2313...
[16:36:26] <CapnKernel> Which I can capture...
[16:36:41] <CapnKernel> I have some attiny85s that would do it
[16:36:50] <OndraSter> do 85 have hardware I2C?
[16:36:57] <CapnKernel> Not sure
[16:37:02] <OndraSter> software I2C :/
[16:37:14] <OndraSter> software SPI is pissy enough for me, really :)
[16:37:25] <OndraSter> and software 1-Wire is even better!
[16:37:38] <CapnKernel> Seems it doesn't.
[16:40:50] <CapnKernel> Can anyone find such a project on the net? (Small AVR pretending to be an EEPROM, or providing EDID?)
[16:46:27] <OndraSter> why not actually use regular programmed EEPROM instead? :-)
[16:47:53] <CapnKernel> It would be easier if I could. Should be I2C address 0x50. Looking into that now.
[16:49:52] <OndraSter> 32kB EEPROM can not be something that expensive for Shenzen guy :-)
[16:50:38] <Tom_itx> shazam!
[16:51:10] <CapnKernel> I'm not in Shenzhen any more, I'm now reduced to the level of mere mortals :-(
[16:51:27] <CapnKernel> The question is not the memory size, the question is getting the EEPROM to answer to address 0x50.
[16:52:08] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: shamwow!
[16:53:18] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, usually two or three address bits are human selectable
[16:53:23] <OndraSter> and the rest is hardcoded
[16:53:33] <CapnKernel> Hmm
[16:54:03] <OndraSter> the lowest 3 bits
[16:54:06] <OndraSter> A0 - A2
[16:54:22] <OndraSter> and I bet that all EEPROMs have the same top 4 bits :)
[16:54:39] <OndraSter> guys, anyone ever worked with those ATF1502/4/8 Atmel CPLDs?
[16:56:41] <CapnKernel> If anyone wants to suggest an EEPROM, I'm all ears
[16:56:49] <OndraSter> Atmel's one
[16:56:57] <OndraSter> 256Kbit
[16:57:06] <OndraSter> AFAIK the EDID is 32kB top
[16:57:08] <OndraSter> tops
[16:57:42] <CapnKernel> I only need to fake the 128 bytes that this monitor gives over the DVI
[16:57:54] <CapnKernel> So a 1kbit would be fine
[16:58:29] <OndraSter> damn, I am looking for ATMISP, abcmini
[16:58:31] <OndraSter> oh he is not here
[16:58:37] <OndraSter> I can find only ones from 2001
[16:58:42] <OndraSter> not sure if they are still... working
[16:58:48] <OndraSter> probably only on win98 :)
[16:59:14] <OndraSter> hoh, one for win95/98, one for NT3/NT4 lol
[16:59:53] <OndraSter> maybe it is built into the atmel prochip...
[17:07:34] <OndraSter> surprisingly, there are no Altera CPLDs/fpgas/.. on mouser?!
[17:08:23] <carp3> CapnKernel: you just want to set higher resolution? why you don't just modify your windows ?
[17:47:33] <CapnKernel> carp3: Hmm?
[17:48:16] <CapnKernel> This monitor has two ports, DVI and VGA. The DVI port returns EDID info, the VGA port doesn't.
[17:48:30] <CapnKernel> I'm a little puzzled what you mean by "windows".
[18:12:25] <Toneloc> CapnKernel, - you say you lived in Shenzhen - I was thinking of going there some time, what is it like? I also heard it is the chinese capital of countrfeit's
[18:13:09] <CapnKernel> Toneloc: Hi
[18:13:29] <CapnKernel> It's an amazing, place, like living in Bladerunner City
[18:14:07] <CapnKernel> China has a large manufacturing industry, and Shenzhen and the surrounding areas is the centre of electronics production
[18:14:24] <CapnKernel> There are a lot of manufacturers who don't care what they make, as long as they can make something and sell it.
[18:14:40] <CapnKernel> If a name brand gives them a contract, they'll make something for the name brand.
[18:14:54] <CapnKernel> Otherwise they'll grab a reference design for something, and pump that out instead.
[18:15:39] <CapnKernel> In the west, there is a strong connection between the company that designs something, and the company that makes it. Not in China
[18:15:42] <CapnKernel> They are quite separate.
[18:16:26] <CapnKernel> There is a large market for stuff which either looks like the original, or very similar.
[18:16:39] <CapnKernel> A lot of companies get their start by making copies of things.
[18:17:02] <CapnKernel> After a few years they become so good at it, that they start doing their own mods, and eventually making their own products.
[18:18:39] <CapnKernel> For an example of how companies go up the value chain, see HTC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Htc#Product_range_and_branding
[18:18:51] <CapnKernel> (I'm not suggesting HTC ever made fake products)
[18:19:42] <CapnKernel> Regarding the parts markets, yes, there's a lot of crap in the markets. I'd say at least 50% of the stuff in the markets is from "alternative sources"
[18:20:11] <CapnKernel> That's why it's vital to have rock solid relationships with suppliers you can trust.
[18:38:41] <voodoofish> /join #ruby
[18:49:40] <Toneloc> CapnKernel, - sorry, i was afk there, its great to talk to someone who has been 'on the ground' , I was actually looking at buying some PIC's today- <1 euro delivered from china on ebay - sure to be fakes I guess, most of the parts coming from china appear to be fakes or equivalents with the writing on sideways...
[18:50:18] <CapnKernel> I can't comment
[18:50:50] <Toneloc> I understand, I was wondering is there much work for electronics engineers out there?
[18:52:07] <CapnKernel> It depends on where "there" is.
[18:52:18] <CapnKernel> And what kind of experience
[18:52:21] <Toneloc> shenzhen
[18:53:15] <Toneloc> I guess you would need to be very experienced to be needed and make it worthwhile to be working there.
[18:54:15] <Toneloc> I was watching a program tonight about two studnets who went to work over there- they said they found the culture very different and also very hard to get the language to a level they could conduct business with.
[18:56:12] <Toneloc> *students
[18:56:57] <CapnKernel> If you don't speak Chinese, forget going to Shenzhen.
[18:58:23] <Toneloc> so, as a english-only visitor would I be pretty much stuck in china generally?
[18:58:48] <CapnKernel> Yes, unless you have a guide.
[18:59:02] <Toneloc> I know in most european countries- younger people know english and are willing to help
[18:59:13] <Toneloc> Ah, i see
[18:59:31] <CapnKernel> Would you go to Russia without knowing Russian, Mexico without Spanish?
[18:59:47] <Landon> CapnKernel: I know plenty that go to mexico without spanish :P it's called spring break, heh
[18:59:59] <Toneloc> sure, I have been to poland without polish
[19:00:05] <CapnKernel> That's not going to Mexico, that's going to little tourist enclaves.
[19:00:09] <Toneloc> germany without german
[19:00:27] <CapnKernel> Chinese university students must pass English exams to continue studying, but in practice, their English is often completely useless.
[19:00:28] <Toneloc> nope, i was in the back ass of poland
[19:00:40] <Toneloc> but, it wasnt an easy experience
[19:01:03] <CapnKernel> In China, you won't even see names that have the same cognate as in your native tongue
[19:01:37] <Toneloc> well, that must make things terrible
[19:01:45] <Toneloc> in germany you could guess what was what
[19:01:57] <Toneloc> Poland- was pretty useless in that regard
[19:02:29] <Toneloc> how fo the chinese treat you as an outsider?
[19:02:45] <CapnKernel> Take that leap between German and Polish, and do it again to Chinese
[19:03:48] <CapnKernel> Chinese people for the most part are a completely insular society. It's hard for them to comprehend there's a world outside of China. A little bit like Americans, really.
[19:04:00] <CapnKernel> All their cultural points of view are self-referential
[19:04:10] <CapnKernel> So a foreigner will always be a curiosity
[19:05:50] <CapnKernel> Any place where you have to negotiate the price, you will never get the local price, because it's assumed by Chinese that because you're a foreigner, you "deserve" a higher price.
[19:06:14] <Toneloc> ^^this I have heard of before
[19:06:20] <CapnKernel> My Chinese friends tell me my bargaining skills are better than theirs, yet there's a floor price that Chinese just won't go below.
[19:07:05] <Toneloc> also, they say when you want to buy form say taobao in china- you should get shipped to your chinese friend- because a foreign named person will get ripped off or nothing at all
[19:07:23] <CapnKernel> As a nation, China is unbelievably insecure. To me, the majority of the behaviour of Chinese people can be explained by their various insecurities.
[19:08:09] <CapnKernel> For example, in Western baby milk powder advertisements, the emphasis is on "you want your baby to be healthy, don't you?", whereas in China, it's "you want your baby to be the smartest, don't you?"
[19:08:12] <Toneloc> did you see any human rights violations while there?
[19:08:31] <Toneloc> but i guess they are kept under raps, like in the factories
[19:08:33] <CapnKernel> No. To be honest, as far as daily freedoms go, I'd have to say it's freer than the USA.
[19:08:52] <oohu> could anyone here help me with interrupts for avr asm?
[19:09:23] <oohu> im using avr-gcc on a linux machine, and the usual method with .org 0x(address_of_vector) does not seem to work
[19:09:40] <CapnKernel> It is a laissez-faire society which the Americans would envy, if they could comprehend it.
[19:10:08] <Toneloc> CapnKernel, : unbelievable that they play on such insecurities - the academic race begins in diapers
[19:10:22] <CapnKernel> oohu: When you say "usual method", do you have any websites which show an example?
[19:10:31] <oohu> yes
[19:10:38] <oohu> avrfreaks.net in particular
[19:10:39] <CapnKernel> Like?
[19:10:46] <CapnKernel> Specific example
[19:10:54] <oohu> .org 0x{Vector Address}
[19:10:56] <oohu> then
[19:11:00] <oohu> jmp ROutine
[19:11:02] <CapnKernel> WEB PAGE oohu!
[19:11:12] <CapnKernel> Anyway, Chinese as a culture are deeply insecure as to what they perceive to be past slights against them by foreign powers
[19:11:17] <oohu> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=89843&start=all&postdays=0&postorder=asc
[19:11:19] <oohu> ohh sorry
[19:12:05] <oohu> 3rd code segment down
[19:12:30] <CapnKernel> Because of this perception, they feel entitled to "wound" foreigners, just as they were wounded. Kind of like a payback.
[19:12:32] <Toneloc> CapnKernel: I see, it must be pretty difficult to make friends with chinese ?
[19:12:57] <Toneloc> perhaps rather impossible to make true friend and not just 'business relations'
[19:13:15] <CapnKernel> I'm talking generalities and stereotypes, not specifics.
[19:13:40] <CapnKernel> Once people get to know you, they realise you're not out to eat their firstborn, and you both realise that above all, you're humans.
[19:14:12] <Toneloc> myself also, I meant as a whole- are the chinese totally distrusting of foreigners and wont make friends with them ?
[19:14:57] <CapnKernel> oohu: I suspect (but I'm not sure) that the {} there is just an example - you must supply the real address.
[19:15:12] <Toneloc> I understand, I have seen this happen with other nationalities also, I guess its really just down to lack of trust and ignorance
[19:15:13] <oohu> im not including the {}
[19:15:29] <oohu> i am using the 3rd external interrupt so the address is 0x0008
[19:15:56] <CapnKernel> oohu: When you say "the usual method with .org 0x(address_of_vector) does not seem to work", it strongly implies that you are.
[19:16:10] <CapnKernel> Can you put some code onto pastebin.com (or similar) for us to have a look at?
[19:16:18] <oohu> sec
[19:16:18] <CapnKernel> "it doesn't work" is pretty unhelpful...
[19:16:27] <Tom_itx> pfft
[19:16:29] <Tom_itx> details
[19:16:39] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: hi <laughs>
[19:16:50] <CapnKernel> wtf? LOL
[19:18:05] <Tom_itx> Toneloc, ppl fear the unknown
[19:18:16] <Casper> :D
[19:18:17] <Tom_itx> or they're just stupid
[19:18:18] <Casper> http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3263/img3186hi.jpg
[19:18:32] <CapnKernel> Toneloc: I am forming a general theory, and it goes like this: Chinese people will do anything, anything for their family and friends. For me as a westerner, this is often very embarrassing, because these people give until they have nothing left. But past family and friends, they do nothing. It's as if people outside that circle don't exist
[19:18:39] <CapnKernel> Note that goes for foreigners as well as other Chinese.
[19:19:20] * Tom_itx stares at Casper's floor and wonders... wtf
[19:19:29] <CapnKernel> So Chinese people either won't give you the time of day (it's ok, they treat other Chinese the same), or they're giving you watches.
[19:19:35] <Casper> Tom_itx: first paint layer done!
[19:19:52] * Tom_itx watches Casper's paint dry
[19:20:01] <Casper> Tom_itx: yeah, that's the current game...
[19:20:06] <Casper> 16 hours of dry time
[19:20:09] <CapnKernel> Wow
[19:20:36] <Tom_itx> CapnKernel, and cameras?
[19:20:54] <Tom_itx> or is that just for 'close' friends
[19:21:14] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: "watch" is figurative based on "giving you the time of day"
[19:21:24] <Toneloc> CapnKernel- thats an interesting insight- i got a know a chinese student- she had no work, so no money, but she was talking about sending me a gift of a nice hand sewn cloth she was making- i was quite humbled by this
[19:21:24] <CapnKernel> HK culture is different - people's level of care is much more like the west - they recognise that expressing some level of care to all makes for a better society
[19:21:28] <Casper> it's oil based :/
[19:21:33] <Tom_itx> stereotypically you see them holding cameras
[19:21:36] <CapnKernel> Toneloc: Yep absolutely
[19:21:42] <Toneloc> she never even met me in real life
[19:21:51] <Tom_itx> and can't drive worth shit
[19:22:23] <CapnKernel> For example, in HK and in the west, if you hold the door open for someone, the right thing for them to do is to briefly make eye contact and smile.
[19:22:36] <CapnKernel> It's acknowledgement
[19:23:03] <CapnKernel> It's rare to get this acknowledgement in China. You hold the door open for someone then they sail through like you're not even there. It's quite disconcerting
[19:23:21] <Tom_itx> they wouldn't if you shut it :)
[19:23:23] <CapnKernel> My theory for why they drive like shit is because they don't realise there are other drivers on the road.
[19:23:45] <Toneloc> it would be very disconcerting
[19:23:57] <CapnKernel> I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that Chinese are completely blind to others beyond family and friends.
[19:24:47] <nevdull> they recognize the japanese...
[19:24:47] <CapnKernel> This to me is the only explanation for the driving I see in Shenzhen - the stopping in the middle of the freeway, the changing lanes without signalling or even looking
[19:25:11] <Toneloc> anyways, its getting late here, have to get up early in the morning - it was nice talking with you CapnKernel and to hear your insights into China.
[19:25:24] <CapnKernel> There is still a great deal of animosity by Chinese people towards Japanese people
[19:25:28] <CapnKernel> A great deal
[19:25:34] <Tom_itx> hmm
[19:25:42] <CapnKernel> The sad thing is that this is fanned by the government
[19:25:44] <Tom_itx> that's something a westerner wouldn't see
[19:25:52] <Toneloc> I will be back again to learn more
[19:26:01] <Toneloc> 'night all
[19:26:15] <CapnKernel> Because it serves the government's interest to have someone else to hate, a scapegoat if you will.
[19:26:20] <CapnKernel> Night
[19:26:31] <Toneloc> night CapnKernel
[21:13:34] <BlueProtoman> Anyone here know why I can't seem to flash my program onto my Arduino from Code::Blocks? These are my settings for post-compilation;
[21:13:36] <BlueProtoman> avr-objcopy -O ihex -R .eeprom -R .eesafe $(TARGET_OUTPUT_FILE) $(TARGET_OUTPUT_FILE).hex
[21:13:45] <BlueProtoman> avr-objcopy --no-change-warnings -j .eeprom --change-section-lma .eeprom=0 -O ihex $(TARGET_OUTPUT_FILE) $(TARGET_OUTPUT_FILE).eep.hex
[21:13:53] <BlueProtoman> avrdude -p m168 -c avrispmkII -P usb -U flash:w:$(TARGET_OUTPUT_FILE).hex
[21:14:14] <atom1> -c avrisp2
[21:14:25] <BlueProtoman> Where?
[21:14:34] <BlueProtoman> (I'm new to this whole thing)
[21:14:44] <BlueProtoman> On the third line in favor of avrispmkII?
[21:14:56] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/using_avrdude_index.php
[21:15:42] <atom1> well, this isn't #arduino
[21:15:42] <BlueProtoman> Oh, and this is an atmega328P, by the way.
[21:16:00] <atom1> so change m168 to m328p
[21:16:16] <BlueProtoman> What... Damn.
[21:16:28] <BlueProtoman> Note to self; read what I copy/paste from now on.
[21:16:34] <BlueProtoman> Let's give that a go.
[21:17:43] <CapnKernel> He's not using the Arduino software. He's using his Arduino as an m328p breakout board.
[21:18:49] <BlueProtoman> Right. I can't use the Arduino IDE for my project.
[21:19:05] <atom1> have you dumped it's bootloader?
[21:19:10] <atom1> or did it have one?
[21:19:21] <atom1> so look over my tutorials
[21:19:52] <Tom_itx> dude, they're not your friggin tutorials... they're mine
[21:19:53] <Tom_itx> !
[21:20:11] <BlueProtoman> atom1: Huh?
[21:20:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[21:21:34] <Tom_itx> you need a .hex file to load to the m328p
[21:21:56] <BlueProtoman> Right, I have one of those.
[21:22:09] <Tom_itx> what programmer?
[21:22:42] <BlueProtoman> The USB cable that was included with the Arduino.
[21:22:51] <BlueProtoman> (#arduino isn't giving me much help)
[21:23:00] <Tom_itx> i bet
[21:23:30] <BlueProtoman> The code is not the issue, it's flashing the .hex that is.
[21:23:37] <BlueProtoman> Because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.
[21:24:07] <Tom_itx> avrdude -c avrisp2 -p m328p -U flash:w:"yourhexfile.hex":a -D -e
[21:24:24] <Tom_itx> should be close to what you need
[21:24:34] <Tom_itx> except you may need to specify the port
[21:24:39] <BlueProtoman> How do I do that?
[21:25:54] <BlueProtoman> Tom_itx?
[21:26:10] <atom1> avrdude -c avrisp2 -P usb -p m328p -v -U flash:w:yourhexfile.hex:i
[21:26:15] <atom1> that should be close
[21:27:26] <Tom_itx> dude you're just confusing him... shut up
[21:27:32] <atom1> oh bite me
[21:27:58] <Tom_L> children... stop bickering or i'll have to kick you both
[21:28:00] <BlueProtoman> Yeah, I'm trying to be not confused here.
[21:28:44] <Tom_itx> all you got is a cable to program with?
[21:28:50] <BlueProtoman> Yes.
[21:28:58] <Tom_itx> is the bootloader still installed?
[21:29:06] <BlueProtoman> Yes, I think so.
[21:29:07] <Tom_itx> ohh does it have the ft232 chip on it?
[21:29:21] <Tom_itx> or is it one of the new fancy uno's
[21:29:31] <Tom_itx> with the avr 8u2 on it
[21:29:41] <BlueProtoman> How can I check?
[21:29:46] <Tom_itx> look at the board
[21:29:59] <Tom_itx> it'll be one or the other i bet
[21:30:24] <BlueProtoman> It's an SMD R2.
[21:30:28] <BlueProtoman> Lemme remove the shield...
[21:30:48] <Tom_itx> flippin arduinos!
[21:31:25] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what device they show as in avrdude
[21:31:39] <Tom_itx> check the avrdude pdf for that
[21:32:22] <BlueProtoman> Fuck that chip is tiny.
[21:32:30] <BlueProtoman> Lemme get my magnifying glass...
[21:32:46] <Tom_itx> i bet it's the 8u2 if it's that tiny
[21:32:53] <CapnKernel> If the chip is a tiny square thing, it's the 8u2
[21:33:17] <BlueProtoman> Oh, OK.
[21:33:25] <BlueProtoman> Also, avrdude output.
http://pastebin.com/rkFjC4tE
[21:34:07] <Tom_itx> it may be like a serial device instead of usb, i'm not sure about that
[21:34:16] <Tom_itx> is it the arduino uno?
[21:34:25] <BlueProtoman> Yes.
[21:34:34] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna go cuss em out in arduino
[21:34:52] <BlueProtoman> Can I watch?
[21:37:44] <Tom_itx> so did you get all that?
[21:38:06] <Tom_itx> -P /dev/ttyACM0 if it's linux
[21:38:12] <Tom_itx> and -c arduino
[21:38:36] <Tom_itx> but try without the -P first
[21:39:11] <BlueProtoman> Linux, yes.
[21:39:42] <Tom_itx> avrdude -c arduino -P /dev/ttyACM0 -p m328p -U flash:w:"yourhexfile.hex":a -D -e
[21:39:47] <Tom_itx> that's what they just said
[21:39:56] <Tom_itx> except you may need root to run avrdude
[21:40:05] <Tom_itx> or do some silly fixup i don't know how to do
[21:40:09] <Tom_itx> since i don't use linux
[21:40:22] <Tom_itx> because of the serial access
[21:40:44] <CapnKernel> The device file is likely to be /dev/ttyUSBn where n is a number, most likely 0.
[21:41:02] <Tom_itx> or that
[21:41:13] <CapnKernel> If you are very unlucky, another program will have claimed /dev/ttyUSB0 before you can get there.
[21:41:47] <Tom_itx> and you may not need -e but it won't hurt
[21:42:23] <atom1> now where the hell was i...
[21:42:46] <BlueProtoman> It's timing out.
[21:42:52] <BlueProtoman> It did just reset my Arduino, though.
[21:42:56] <BlueProtoman> So we're making progress.
[21:43:00] <CapnKernel> Good sign
[21:43:03] <atom1> mkay
[21:43:15] <atom1> try -B xxx
[21:43:21] <atom1> to slow it down
[21:43:25] <atom1> maybe -B32
[21:43:26] <BlueProtoman> What's that do?
[21:43:34] <CapnKernel> I would be trying to get -t -q to work before -U
[21:43:43] <CapnKernel> You need to at least be able to ID your chip
[21:44:02] <atom1> yeah get the signature first before you try to write anything to it
[21:44:12] <atom1> or you may own a brick
[21:45:09] <BlueProtoman> How do I do that?
[21:46:08] <Tom_itx> gawd i'm glad he left
[21:46:12] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:46:49] <BlueProtoman> So what do I do now? I know that we're making progress.
[21:46:59] <Tom_itx> read the signature
[21:47:21] <BlueProtoman> How?
[21:47:49] <BlueProtoman> Tom_itx, how do I read my Arduino's signature?
[21:48:18] * CapnKernel is not going to answer, as he wasn't asked (goes off to sulk)
[21:48:50] <BlueProtoman> Ok, CapnKernel, how do I read my Arduino's signature?
[21:49:17] <CapnKernel> I would guess, if the line you specified before was anywhere near correct, something like this: avrdude -c arduino -P /dev/ttyACM0 -p m328p -t -q
[21:49:52] <BlueProtoman> What do those lines do?
[21:50:00] <BlueProtoman> *those options
[21:50:20] <CapnKernel> -t says id your chip, and -q says don't be shy about what its doing
[21:50:21] <Tom_L> -U signature:r:con:r
[21:50:24] <Tom_L> i think
[21:50:43] <CapnKernel> con is a windowsism
[21:50:52] <Tom_L> so make up something then
[21:51:09] <Tom_L> -U signature:r:outputfile.txt:r
[21:51:35] <Tom_L> -U signature:r:\home\user\outputfile.txt:r
[21:51:38] <Tom_L> beats me
[21:52:15] <CapnKernel> BlueProtoman: What do you get when you run "lsusb"? Please send the output to pastebin or similar so we can have a look
[21:52:21] <BlueProtoman> Will do.
[21:52:44] <BlueProtoman> http://pastebin.com/P1zhiq8t
[21:52:52] <CapnKernel> And the output of this: ls -l /dev/ttyUSB* /dev/ttyACM*
[21:53:19] <CapnKernel> Is that with your Arduino plugged into the USB port?
[21:53:26] <Tom_L> in the mean time read this:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage//avr/avrdude/avrdude-doc-5.5.pdf
[21:53:32] <BlueProtoman> CapnKernel: Yes.
[21:53:34] <BlueProtoman> ls: cannot access /dev/ttyUSB*: No such file or directory
[21:53:34] <BlueProtoman> crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 2012-03-25 22:43 /dev/ttyACM0
[21:53:39] <BlueProtoman> This is the second command.
[21:53:54] <CapnKernel> Can you pull out your Arduino and see if /dev/ttyACM0 stays or disappears?
[21:54:05] <Tom_L> the dude said use /dev/ttyACM0
[21:54:19] <Tom_L> but wtf do i know
[21:54:38] <CapnKernel> you know Windows, and AVR better than I ever will :-)
[21:54:49] <BlueProtoman> jesse@jesse-ubuntu:~$ ls -l /dev/ttyUSB* /dev/ttyACM*
[21:54:50] <BlueProtoman> ls: cannot access /dev/ttyUSB*: No such file or directory
[21:54:50] <BlueProtoman> crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 2012-03-25 22:44 /dev/ttyACM0
[21:54:52] <Tom_L> i've heard rumors about ppl in arduino too though
[21:55:35] <CapnKernel> Can you pull out your Arduino and see if /dev/ttyACM0 stays or disappears?
[21:56:16] <BlueProtoman> Which command is that again?
[21:56:34] <CapnKernel> ls -l /dev/ttyACM*
[21:56:48] <Tom_L> BlueProtoman did you get that avrdude.pdf link?
[21:56:56] <BlueProtoman> Tom_L: Yes.
[21:56:58] <Tom_L> look it over and read about the switches
[21:57:08] <BlueProtoman> CapnKernel: This is the output of that with the Arduino *UNPLUGGED*.
[21:57:09] <BlueProtoman> crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 2012-03-25 22:44 /dev/ttyACM0
[21:57:30] <Tom_L> it's likely been updated in 5.11
[21:57:38] <Tom_L> so you may wanna find that one
[21:57:57] <CapnKernel> So try running lsusb with and without the Arduino plugged in. Any difference?
[21:59:09] <BlueProtoman> With it in, there's one extra line.
[21:59:15] <CapnKernel> Which line?
[21:59:18] <BlueProtoman> Hold on.
[21:59:46] <CapnKernel> Ahh, this one: 2341:0001
[21:59:57] <BlueProtoman> http://pastebin.com/CPP73vex
[22:00:10] <BlueProtoman> That's my terminal's output.
[22:00:12] <CapnKernel> Let me guess, your Ubuntu is more than 6 months old, so therefore doesn't know about the Arduino USB ids.
[22:00:20] <BlueProtoman> Ubuntu 11.04
[22:00:35] <BlueProtoman> So, yes.
[22:00:37] <CapnKernel> Ancient history do try to keep up.
[22:00:46] <CapnKernel> Linux is a fast-moving target
[22:00:56] <BlueProtoman> Would I have to reinstall all of my software?
[22:00:58] * Tom_L gives BlueProtoman windows update for linux
[22:01:10] * BlueProtoman gives Tom_L apt-get for Windows
[22:01:38] <CapnKernel> Try this. Remove the arduino, run the following command, then insert the Arduino: tail -f /var/log/messages
[22:01:48] <CapnKernel> (You will need to run this as root)
[22:02:10] <BlueProtoman> tail: cannot open `/var/log/messages' for reading: No such file or directory
[22:02:17] <BlueProtoman> (With it unplugged)
[22:02:39] <BlueProtoman> Same with it plugged in.
[22:03:43] <CapnKernel> That's where the system log file should be, and the log will tell us some useful stuff.
[22:03:58] <CapnKernel> So I suggest you head on over to #ubuntu and ask for help about why you don't have a /var/log/messages file.
[22:04:16] <CapnKernel> I'll be back here when you're done.
[22:07:12] <BlueProtoman> I probably won't find out until Wednesday, then. :P
[22:07:43] <CapnKernel> Up to you
[22:08:28] <BlueProtoman> So apparently I want /var/log/kern.log
[22:08:31] <BlueProtoman> Coming right up.
[22:09:35] <BlueProtoman> http://pastebin.com/pGpLz9w8
[22:16:05] <BlueProtoman> CapnKernel?
[22:16:44] <CapnKernel> Yes?
[22:17:14] <BlueProtoman> There's the log you want, just in another location, according to #ubuntu
[22:19:51] <CapnKernel> So if you remove the arduino, run the following command, then insert the Arduino, what do you get? tail -f /var/log/kern.log
[22:19:58] <CapnKernel> Is it as in the pastebin?
[22:20:45] <BlueProtoman> With it unplugged;
http://pastebin.com/ef39UD6Q
[22:22:00] <BlueProtoman> Plugged in;
http://pastebin.com/TcLKiD01
[22:24:52] <CapnKernel> Remove the device, run the tail, then insert the device. Paste to pastebin ONLY the lines that appear when you insert the device
[22:25:06] <BlueProtoman> Right, OK.
[22:25:38] <BlueProtoman> http://pastebin.com/Ke5AeHSQ
[22:26:16] <CapnKernel> Sorry to be so pedantic, but you haven't followed these instructions exactly.
[22:26:38] <CapnKernel> Remove the device, run "tail -f /var/log/kern.log", then insert the device. Paste to pastebin ONLY the lines that appear when you insert the device
[22:26:49] <CapnKernel> Note the ONLY
[22:28:51] <BlueProtoman> http://pastebin.com/jdpt67Y0
[22:28:52] <Valen> personally i suggest syslog for the tail
[22:29:20] <CapnKernel> Valen: All yours if you like. I suspect he's getting some sort of ACM device, but not sure which one.
[22:29:28] <BlueProtoman> Syslog version
http://pastebin.com/DdcKgnfV
[22:29:37] <CapnKernel> Alright, it's /dev/ttyACM0
[22:29:59] <Valen> CapnKernel: i'm about to head off, sometimes syslog can have more info in it than kern was ll
[22:30:01] <Valen> all
[22:30:13] <CapnKernel> I have to head off too, gotta cook dinner
[22:30:35] <Valen> going to the gym
[22:30:40] <CapnKernel> BlueProtoman: Try the avrdude command with the device file of /dev/ttyACM0. You must run the command as root. Back later.
[22:30:45] <Valen> gotta get some more muscles to attract the females
[22:30:53] <BlueProtoman> Bye, then!
[22:32:15] <Valen> i mean gotta get fit to be healthy and live long
[22:32:17] <Valen> yeah thats it
[22:32:18] <BlueProtoman> Still timeout...
[22:38:19] <BlueProtoman> Good night!
[22:58:57] <Roklobsta> capnkernel: is it a cheesy fondue?
[23:03:45] <CapnKernel> Roklobsta: No.
[23:04:01] <CapnKernel> And I specifically asked you not to do that.
[23:06:20] <Roklobsta> fine
