#avr | Logs for 2012-03-23

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[00:19:11] <Xata> hi
[00:20:40] <Xata> i have a question - to obtain 16mHz on ATmega32A i shall use a quartz generator?
[00:21:52] <inflex> yes
[00:25:32] <Xata> inflex: and internal is 8mHz max? Where should i read about registers of atmegas? Except datasheets (they all are in english, hard english)
[00:32:16] <inflex> HRmm... bestyou get used to the datasheets, imo they're fairly well written compared to a lot of other truly awful datasheets. 8MHz is the usual max within most avrs, some have 9.6MHz (like the Tiny13).
[00:32:42] <inflex> There are plenty of general fuse-description sites on the net, as well as fuse-generator tools for Windows users etc
[00:35:07] <Xata> inflex: thanks. anyway looks like i misunderstood the whole idea of avr. i thought it has something like 16mhz cpu, like it is everywhere written. thanks anyway, already found something about fuses in my native language
[01:22:33] <danielson2> test
[01:23:05] <Casper> test failed, you lose, please hang yourself with a towel
[01:58:04] <Metalsutton> can anyone recommend me a good program to draw schematics / stripboard circuits?
[02:02:57] <Casper> stripboard? none
[02:03:11] <Casper> try eagle for schem and real board
[02:04:17] <Metalsutton> thanks
[02:05:05] <Metalsutton> real board?
[02:06:13] <Casper> not strip/perf/proto board
[02:07:52] <ziph> Metalsutton: DipTrace has support for wire jumpers.
[02:08:35] <desaster> there are a bunch of stripboard specific tools too
[02:08:43] <desaster> i've forgotten which one i preferred, though
[02:08:53] <desaster> example: http://veecad.com/
[02:09:14] <Valen> kicad is free
[02:09:16] <ziph> The real question is why you'd use one. If the design is that complex you might as well be doing PCB's.
[02:09:20] <Valen> and unlimited
[02:09:52] <Valen> and yeah, learn to make PCBs its worth it
[02:10:50] <Metalsutton> Its not complex. I have an error with the way I have designed something ... well. ITS NOT WORKING ANYWAY :P I just want some way to outline to someone the paths I have created, and see if there is something I have done wrong againest the schematic. Put it this way, It worked on a breadboard, now it doesn't. I have checked all connections and tracks. Even verifyed the AVR.
[02:11:25] <Valen> even simple stuff is good on a PCB ;->
[02:11:27] <ziph> Digging deeper into the problem is the way to fix that kind of thing.
[02:11:35] <Valen> odds are you have a loose wire or something irritating
[02:11:42] <Valen> that happens alot less often with a pcb lol
[02:12:46] <Casper> problem: usb
[02:12:49] <Metalsutton> Negitive, everything is fully connected fine, ive spend a major portion of the last 2 days on it. It seriously isnt as complex as you may think. I am sure i have just wired it up weird. A way that I thought might work, but its questionable, thats why I want to get someone to look at it.
[02:13:13] <ziph> So you just need a schematic?
[02:13:20] <Valen> simplest would be take a photo of the board and a schematic, or no schematic if its *that* simple
[02:14:23] <Metalsutton> I have a schematic that I am working to. I just think taking a photo of the board wouldnt give you much an idea on the tracks, I need to draw over it. I was just curious if there was any good software for it. I have tried Veecad. wasn't quite what I was after.
[02:15:18] <Valen> you might be surprised, we have all spent far too much time looking at breadboards lol
[02:19:25] <Metalsutton> breadboards are ok... you can change them easy. This is a fully soldered up protoboard.
[02:59:11] <Metalsutton> is there a setting on a multimeter that sends a small signal to test for connection (if I have the target board off)
[02:59:25] <Metalsutton> (complete n00b)
[03:01:08] <Metalsutton> basicaly a continuity test
[03:01:56] <ziph> Metalsutton: In or near the resistance measurement mode there's a connectivity mode where it beeps.
[03:05:14] <ziph> It isn't magic though, you need to think about what is connected to the two nodes you're connecting it to.
[03:05:51] <Metalsutton> damn. I just looked at the manual. Mine is soo cheap that it doesnt even have that function. hhmmm
[03:06:23] <Metalsutton> Suppose I could make one with an led and battery.
[03:18:05] <ziph> Metalsutton: Connect your oscilloscope to various parts of the circuit and see if signals are getting through.
[03:31:20] <Valen> just set it to a low resistance (200 ohms) and look for 0 ohms
[03:31:24] <Valen> its connected then ;->
[03:31:30] <Valen> (or around zero)
[03:31:38] <Valen> do keep in mind it will be putting power out
[03:31:46] <Valen> (but not heaps)
[03:46:40] <Metalsutton> hhmmm. Whats the cheapest possible one? I have like a $20 multimeter which doesnt have a buzzer test. What makes you think I have a $1000+ oscilloscope :P
[03:52:59] <ziph> Metalsutton: You can get a new one for $300-400.
[03:54:48] <Metalsutton> any particular brand?
[03:55:18] <ziph> Metalsutton: Rigol is the most popular low end (but very good quality and usability) scope.
[03:55:32] <Metalsutton> cheers.
[03:55:41] <ziph> Metalsutton: The Rigol DS1102E 100MHz for example.
[04:39:56] <Tom_itx> Casper there is a stripboard layout program out there, rifraf used it but i forgot what it was called
[04:45:03] <Tom_itx> http://veecad.com/
[04:46:44] <cyanide> fucking shit 3 month old mouse
[04:46:57] <cyanide> the buttons start clicking multiple times
[04:47:03] <cyanide> it's a goddamn razer too
[04:47:42] <Tom_itx> i get the cheapest kbd and mice i can find, that way i don't feel so bad when they screw up
[04:47:44] <cyanide> i want to switch to something else which isn't so fragile
[04:47:55] <Tom_itx> i may have $3 in this kbd
[04:48:23] <cyanide> i actually spend a bit of money on my input devices because i'm going to use them all the time
[04:48:34] <cyanide> but the quality of stuff these days is horrendous
[04:48:36] <Tom_itx> i use em all the time as well
[04:49:14] <cyanide> yeah obviously that applies to almost everyone else here too. but i spend money on these things. a good chair, good input devices, etc
[04:49:41] <Tom_itx> get a good chair and you'll just get lazy and not wanna get up
[04:49:56] <cyanide> as if that's not going to happen with a crap chair :P
[04:50:12] <Tom_itx> no, it'll fall apart first
[04:50:14] <Tom_itx> :)
[04:50:20] <cyanide> lol
[04:50:25] <cyanide> my next keyboard is going to be a mechanical type. but i want to move away from using crap mice
[04:50:45] <cyanide> everything eventually degenerates into doing 3-5 clicks per press
[04:50:56] <cyanide> then you cannot do any work
[04:51:24] <cyanide> bahaha
[04:51:32] <cyanide> googling "replacement for crap mice"
[04:51:41] <cyanide> Google says: Did you mean: replacement for crab lice
[04:52:04] <cyanide> try it
[04:54:52] <cyanide> heh
[04:55:02] <cyanide> i have a logitech driving force gt steering wheel
[04:55:14] <cyanide> im going to use the pedals as mouse buttons when im not gaming
[04:57:00] <pc_magas> Καλημέρα Κόσμε - Good Morning Universe
[04:57:24] <cyanide> Universe says - Fuck you Greece.
[06:39:33] <Tom_itx> cyanide, you could get kicked for language ya know
[06:45:58] <cyanide> ok
[06:46:01] <cyanide> my bad
[09:50:46] <RikusW> Unprinter remove toner ---> http://dbaseserver.mistermail.nl/t/1152381/5051326/222410/0/
[10:16:56] <CapnKernel> cyanide: Last night you asked me if I was there. I wasn't at the time (OndraSter was right), but I always catch up on #avr, so you're welcome to just say what you want and I'll get back to you. (Exception is a software failure that loses my scrollback, can't do anything about that)
[10:17:40] * CapnKernel is happy that Tom_itx likes his boards.
[10:18:43] <CapnKernel> I was supposed to fly home tonight
[10:19:00] <CapnKernel> Flight from Hong Kong->Guangzhou->Melbourne
[10:19:04] <CapnKernel> First leg was delayed
[10:19:40] <CapnKernel> So I've been put up in a hotel for the night
[10:19:44] <CapnKernel> In Guangzhou
[10:20:13] <CapnKernel> I'm really tired of this sh*t, same tired old sh*t that happens every time you do anything in China.
[10:20:32] <CapnKernel> The only time and place you can't rely on shit happening is on the toilet. The rest is a cert.
[10:21:15] <RikusW> CapnKernel: you can use rue's logs
[10:21:22] <RikusW> !thislog
[10:21:43] <RikusW> that is if tobbor got it :S
[10:52:50] <SilicaGel> hee hee my first avr hardware project
[10:52:51] <SilicaGel> http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/542756_3541974076838_1497031533_33296561_951715426_n.jpg
[10:52:57] <SilicaGel> that LED marquee display
[10:53:19] <dirty_d> that is a very dirty mug
[10:53:20] <dirty_d> lol
[10:53:29] <SilicaGel> Oh yeah. It's the friggin tea
[10:53:32] <SilicaGel> it destroys mugs
[10:53:48] <SilicaGel> I ran that through the diswasher and it came out looking the same, which means I'm going to have to actually scrub it :(
[10:54:03] <SilicaGel> (the horror)
[10:54:23] <dirty_d> lol
[10:54:27] <dirty_d> bleach maybe
[10:54:44] <SilicaGel> It would come off if I got one of those scrubbers on a stick that you are supposed to use for that purpose. I think.
[10:55:14] <Landon> SilicaGel: always a quick scrub after drinking while it's still wet ;)
[10:55:18] <SilicaGel> it's true though; I'm really going to get lunch now.
[10:55:21] <SilicaGel> yeah
[10:55:28] <SilicaGel> well with coffee that isn't necessary beacuse coffee is self-cleaning!
[10:55:32] <SilicaGel> (or so I keep telling myself)
[10:55:38] <Landon> you should see my parents mugs then if you think that ;)
[11:00:06] <asteve> are you playing "who can be the grossest"?
[11:00:21] <asteve> clean your mugs
[11:09:58] <OndraSter> marquee display? :)
[11:10:02] <OndraSter> I have something similar
[11:32:12] <cyanide> CapnKernel, so did the visa thing work out or are you not allowed in China now?
[12:04:04] <OndraSter> doh, why AVR has H flag, while x86 has A flag?
[12:04:07] <OndraSter> same thing, different name
[12:04:13] <OndraSter> I got a B because of that :( lolů
[12:04:15] <OndraSter> lol
[12:04:28] <OndraSter> I forgot that it is auxiliary carry
[12:05:45] <asteve> B u fail
[12:11:26] <OndraSter> I am kidding, I got an A, but I couldn't remember the A flag
[12:13:04] <asteve> only an A?
[12:14:52] <OndraSter> "only"?
[12:31:06] <ferdna> hey what do you call those scales where you pull a cord and tells you how string it is?
[12:31:16] <ferdna> *strong
[12:52:44] <DanFrederiksen> grandpa? : )
[12:53:12] <DanFrederiksen> maybe pull gauge or strain gauge
[12:53:44] <ferdna> awesome DanFrederiksen... pull gauge!!! =)
[12:54:09] <DanFrederiksen> lucky guess :)
[12:54:44] <DanFrederiksen> maybe also tension gauge
[12:55:13] <DanFrederiksen> tensometer
[12:58:06] <dirty_d> yank-o-meter
[13:03:31] <ferdna> awesome
[13:09:07] <OndraSter> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=40bf7833586103ab&resid=40BF7833586103AB!462&parid=40BF7833586103AB!111&authkey=!ABPxBtdpktQIhqk
[13:09:10] <OndraSter> square wave not anymore lol
[13:09:14] <OndraSter> 24 devices hooked up on the bus
[13:09:17] <OndraSter> (SCK pin from atmega)
[13:09:32] <OndraSter> it is clocked the fastest possible way (8 or 16MHz)
[13:10:02] <OndraSter> 8MHz :)
[13:10:06] <OndraSter> fosc/2
[13:10:14] <OndraSter> but... it works
[13:10:18] <OndraSter> so.. I don't care lol
[13:59:22] <konsgn> can anyone help with USB layout
[13:59:51] <konsgn> i revised this board 4 times yet it still does not get recognized
[14:04:41] <specing> konsgn: strange... my board got detected the first time
[14:04:55] <specing> Maybe you are doing something wrong (tm)
[14:04:58] <specing> PEBKAC :D
[14:06:06] <konsgn> http://i41.tinypic.com/2m3lo8y.jpg
[14:06:11] <konsgn> thas a pic of mu design
[14:06:30] <konsgn> i made usb as short as possible, but it still doesn't work
[14:08:08] <specing> konsgn: Are you sure you haven't reversed USB data lines?
[14:08:21] <specing> I personally never get the connectors right
[14:08:30] <specing> they always hang superglued to the side
[14:11:39] <konsgn> I'm sure, as it works sometimes, but not most of the time
[14:14:32] <specing> konsgn: although I must admit that the programmer flashed onto it acts a bit funny
[14:14:54] <specing> so I still have the t2313 taking 1/4 of my protoboard
[14:18:04] <dirty_d> konsgn, clock freq off or something?
[14:18:24] <dirty_d> maybe with tempurature changes it drifts into an area where it works or some crazy shit
[14:19:56] <konsgn> according to the multimeter the clock frew is 16mhz as rated
[14:20:29] <RikusW> and ISP clock ?
[14:20:31] <konsgn> specing, what are you talking about with regards to the programmer
[14:20:38] <konsgn> 6khz
[14:20:57] <konsgn> thats what i programmed it at
[14:21:13] <konsgn> actually 125khz
[14:21:14] <RikusW> it would be quite slow then ? ;)
[14:21:17] <konsgn> but i tried both
[14:21:19] <RikusW> better
[14:21:43] <konsgn> yea, it takes about 30 sec for the 6khz to write, and then verify
[14:22:24] <RikusW> whats the problem ?
[14:22:53] <RikusW> tobbor is dead so no logs :(
[14:23:25] <RikusW> where does zlog log to ?
[14:23:52] <konsgn> the problems that the device doesnt get recognized by usb
[14:24:02] <specing> konsgn: I have a m8u2 board
[14:24:21] <RikusW> konsgn: what avr do you use ?
[14:24:30] <konsgn> 32u4
[14:25:30] <RikusW> and do you use LUFA ? or custom fw ?
[14:26:00] <konsgn> i used lufa to make a teensy compatible bootloader
[14:26:57] <konsgn> however, i also tried burning the arduino leonardo bootloader to see if it was a firmware error. its not, both sometimes (rarely) get recognized and can't handle actual communication
[14:27:22] <RikusW> did you modify the makefile ? to set the clock and avr type ?
[14:27:41] <konsgn> yes
[14:27:44] <RikusW> 32u2 and 32u4 is slightly different
[14:27:50] <konsgn> i know
[14:28:02] <konsgn> u4 is the one used in teensy2.0
[14:28:14] <RikusW> there is some register differences
[14:28:37] <konsgn> but im using the same chip, u4...
[14:28:40] <RikusW> like the voltage regulator
[14:29:11] <RikusW> do you have caps on the board ?
[14:29:19] <konsgn> yes
[14:29:24] <RikusW> and how about the resistors on the usb data lines ?
[14:29:36] <RikusW> 22 ohm for 32u2
[14:29:43] <RikusW> should be the same on 32u4
[14:29:45] <konsgn> yup
[14:29:57] <konsgn> check out the pic
[14:29:58] <konsgn> http://i41.tinypic.com/2m3lo8y.jpg
[14:30:02] <konsgn> thats my design
[14:30:12] <specing> usb 5-1: Product: LUFA AVRISP MkII Clone
[14:30:13] <specing> usb 5-1: Manufacturer: Dean Camera
[14:30:28] <specing> abcminiuser_: I see you are a manufacturer now, lol
[14:33:48] <dirty_d> konsgn, you used the right resistors
[14:34:06] <dirty_d> ?
[14:34:13] <konsgn> indeed, but its still not working
[14:34:21] <dirty_d> how long is the usb cable?
[14:34:29] <konsgn> 12 in
[14:34:29] <RikusW> and you used the mini usb connector ?
[14:34:39] <konsgn> yup minib
[14:34:52] <dirty_d> hmm
[14:35:12] <dirty_d> the pins are configured right?
[14:35:14] <konsgn> man, pic usb transcievers were so much easier
[14:35:23] <konsgn> yes, I believe so
[14:35:44] <dirty_d> what are they supposed to be? push-pull?
[14:35:56] <konsgn> the design is based off the teensy design. which should be compatible with the diskloader firmware
[14:36:16] <konsgn> i believe so, with a pull up on the appropriate pin
[14:38:35] <dirty_d> is c6 connected to anything else?
[14:38:37] <abcminiuser_> specing, better than being a tool ;_
[14:38:39] <abcminiuser_> ;)
[14:38:39] <dirty_d> it looks liek tis not
[14:39:16] <dirty_d> c19 too
[14:39:19] <dirty_d> im confused
[14:39:21] <RikusW> konsgn: and you're sure there is no shorts like between C6 and R7 ?
[14:39:32] <RikusW> the 1uF cap and 22 Ohm resistor ?
[14:39:32] <konsgn> yes, there is a power plane tied to gnd
[14:39:46] <konsgn> it is not rendered
[14:39:50] <dirty_d> oh
[14:39:57] <RikusW> it very close from what I can see
[14:40:12] <konsgn> i used a loupe to check
[14:40:17] <dirty_d> scratch inbetween with a xacto knife or soemrhing to be sure
[14:40:19] <dirty_d> oh
[14:40:23] <specing> abcminiuser_: where did you get the VID/PID?
[14:40:46] <konsgn> just check with multimeter
[14:40:59] <konsgn> checked*
[14:41:16] <RikusW> pity you wiped the bootloader, that might have helped debugging the hw
[14:42:13] <dirty_d> it looks like a lot of your traces have like 0.001" between them
[14:42:14] <abcminiuser_> specing, it's cloning Atmel's, otherwise it wouldn't work with Studio
[14:42:18] <dirty_d> i cant relly tell though
[14:42:25] <abcminiuser_> Any wget gurus here?
[14:42:28] <konsgn> i could load any bootloader on right now, i have the avrisp mkII
[14:43:10] <konsgn> they do, but i had a micro mill bit to make the spacing between them, and they are not shorting
[14:43:16] <RikusW> the factory default one will work
[14:43:43] <konsgn> haha, i tried that too
[14:43:46] <dirty_d> konsgn, you milled the board?
[14:43:49] <dirty_d> have pics?
[14:43:55] <konsgn> before i loaded any bootloader on, i tested it
[14:43:56] <RikusW> how did you do the vias ?
[14:44:07] <konsgn> LPKF pro_conduct
[14:44:18] <konsgn> i dont actually have pics of the board sorry
[14:44:24] <dirty_d> oh
[14:44:29] <dirty_d> so its cnced?
[14:44:29] <RikusW> konsgn: my board -> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[14:44:32] <konsgn> yup
[14:44:33] <dirty_d> how long to mill it?
[14:45:11] <konsgn> that pic is part of a larger board that took 2 hours including the 30 min through hole plating process
[14:45:38] <dirty_d> what pic
[14:45:44] <Tom_itx> RikusW, zlog has logs too
[14:46:30] <konsgn> http://i41.tinypic.com/2m3lo8y.jpg
[14:46:32] <konsgn> that pic
[14:46:39] <dirty_d> oh wow
[14:46:56] <RikusW> Tom_itx: how do I get it ?
[14:47:15] <Tom_itx> ask
[14:47:21] <dirty_d> konsgn, what do you use to plate?
[14:47:23] <Tom_itx> zlog
[14:48:17] <RikusW> nice
[14:48:18] <specing> abcminiuser_: takes 8s to dump tiny45's flash though
[14:48:18] <RikusW> thanks
[14:48:24] <specing> hmm
[14:48:28] <konsgn> LPKF pro_conduct
[14:48:33] <Tom_itx> no joins and parts
[14:48:44] <specing> Looks like I can finnaly clear up some board space!
[14:49:04] <RikusW> Tom_itx: is that your bot ?
[14:49:09] <Tom_itx> ye
[14:49:10] <Tom_itx> s
[14:50:12] <Tom_itx> konsgn, where's your schematic?
[14:50:39] <konsgn> gimme a bit, ill get it up
[14:50:49] <Tom_itx> odd you're having so much trouble
[14:53:25] <konsgn> http://i43.tinypic.com/95sfoj.jpg
[14:53:33] <konsgn> it is odd indeed
[14:56:13] <konsgn> the schematic is a mix of sparkfun's pro micro, the teensy 2.0 and my own additions
[14:56:24] <Tom_itx> i put esd devices on my D+ D-
[14:56:42] <Tom_itx> and 27ohm r
[14:57:11] <konsgn> what would be the symptoms of a es shock to the 32u4?
[14:57:16] <konsgn> why 27?
[14:57:59] <Tom_L> sry, netsplit
[14:58:21] <Tom_L> the r is calculated based on trace impedance i think
[14:58:29] <Tom_L> 22 should be ok
[14:58:55] <konsgn> i actually measured only 20, but that should be ok too i think
[14:59:33] <specing> abcminiuser_: 15s to dump m8's flash
[14:59:38] <specing> abcminiuser_: is this normal?
[14:59:42] <dirty_d> Tom_itx, whats an esd device?
[14:59:48] <Tom_itx> konsgn, what about a noisy supply?
[14:59:51] <Tom_itx> did you check that
[14:59:54] <konsgn> electro static discharge
[14:59:57] <konsgn> mmm
[15:00:00] <konsgn> from the pc?
[15:00:09] <OndraSter> I can dump mega128a's flash within few seconds with Dragon in JTAG mode, specing
[15:00:09] <dirty_d> what kinda component protects you from that i mean?
[15:00:28] <konsgn> a little green one.....
[15:00:33] <konsgn> thats all i know of it
[15:00:40] <dirty_d> hmm
[15:00:52] <Tom_itx> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/PESD0603-240/PESD0603-240CT-ND/1813513
[15:01:31] <specing> OndraSter: JTAG? this is SPI
[15:01:38] <OndraSter> SPI? ISP?
[15:01:41] <specing> yes
[15:01:44] <abcminiuser_> specing, no
[15:01:44] <OndraSter> ah
[15:01:48] <OndraSter> never tried ISP on this mega :)
[15:01:49] <abcminiuser_> What ISP speed?
[15:01:55] <specing> abcminiuser_: -B 1
[15:01:55] <dirty_d> Tom_itx, those things go from the D+/- to gnd?
[15:02:04] <OndraSter> I didn't even put out the header for it on my board...
[15:02:05] <Tom_itx> yes i believe so
[15:02:13] <specing> abcminiuser_: cables are ~15 cm
[15:02:15] <abcminiuser_> specing, the old devices are slow as hell due to their byte addressing
[15:02:30] <abcminiuser_> But 8s seems a bit high unless it's verifying all flash addresses
[15:03:13] <dirty_d> thats neat
[15:03:41] <abcminiuser_> Oh crist I think this works, on Linux at least
[15:03:50] <konsgn> be back in a bit, I'm going to try replacing the resistors
[15:04:20] <RikusW> OndraSter: ISP use SPI ;)
[15:04:23] <OndraSter> yes
[15:04:43] <dirty_d> konsgn, no scope?
[15:04:54] * OndraSter has got finally scope! old analog, but hey, better than wire to the eye!
[15:05:03] <dirty_d> i need one
[15:05:34] <specing> abcminiuser_: this is on read
[15:05:50] <specing> "dump flash 0 8192" -> 15s (atmega8)
[15:05:59] <RikusW> OndraSter: I bet mine is older than yours, Tektronix RM561A
[15:06:13] <OndraSter> Kikusui cos5042tm
[15:06:24] <RikusW> mine still have vacuum tubes
[15:06:44] <OndraSter> this is from 80s probably... maybe beginning of 90s
[15:06:57] <Tom_itx> konsgn, also i have a 10uf on vbus
[15:07:19] <RikusW> OndraSter: does yours still have tubes ?
[15:07:28] <OndraSter> tubes where?
[15:08:41] <RikusW> insode of course ;)
[15:08:47] <RikusW> inside
[15:08:53] <OndraSter> oh
[15:08:53] <OndraSter> these tubes
[15:08:55] <OndraSter> dunno
[15:08:57] <OndraSter> doubt it
[15:09:16] <RikusW> mine have to pullout modules for X and Y
[15:09:27] <RikusW> usually a timebase on X
[15:09:56] <OndraSter> heh
[15:11:33] <konsgn> I THINK ITS FIXED WOOT!
[15:11:34] <Tom_itx> konsgn, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/eagle/usb.png
[15:11:45] <Tom_itx> what was the issue?
[15:11:48] <konsgn> i had a bad cap on the vbus line
[15:11:49] <konsgn> i think
[15:11:58] <konsgn> i replaced two of them
[15:12:00] <Tom_itx> woops
[15:12:13] <Tom_itx> what type of caps?
[15:12:37] <konsgn> replaced c6 and c5 and i think its working
[15:12:38] <RikusW> konsgn: bad cap or wrong polarity ?
[15:12:41] <konsgn> all ceramic i think
[15:12:58] <konsgn> bad cap
[15:12:58] <konsgn> ceramic dont have polarity
[15:13:23] <konsgn> Thanks a lot guys
[15:13:34] <RikusW> atmel recommended a 10uF tantalum on vbus
[15:13:40] <RikusW> and 1uF on the regulator
[15:13:48] <dirty_d> Tom_itx, just curious, wouldnt it be better to have those esd things after the resistors?
[15:13:48] <Tom_itx> i use 10uf ceramic
[15:14:43] <dirty_d> nevermind
[15:14:48] <dirty_d> i was looking at it backwards, lol
[15:16:26] <Tom_itx> i suppose but if something were to happen it would be possible to end up with a noisy resistor and you'd never be able to find it
[15:17:44] <abcminiuser_> Hrm, wget ignores exclusion lists when in spider mode
[15:18:47] <_abc_> abcminiuser_: you are the lufa author, no?
[15:18:56] <abcminiuser_> Yup
[15:18:59] <specing> abcminiuser_: is m168 considered newer?
[15:19:02] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_ is da man
[15:19:23] <_abc_> abcminiuser_: there's a strange business going on with some Polish company making lufa softed avr programmers which are sold for good money around here. I hope you are taking a cut?
[15:20:02] <Tom_itx> _abc_, if it's the same one we know of, they stole my design
[15:20:12] <abcminiuser_> specing, yes IIRC
[15:20:22] <abcminiuser_> _abc_, no, I'm not sadly
[15:21:09] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_ where was that one from early on that we found?
[15:21:32] <abcminiuser_> Sounds like the one _abc_ is talking about
[15:21:41] <specing> abcminiuser_: So it supports bulk reads/writes?
[15:21:47] <specing> I'll try it then
[15:27:02] <Tom_itx> _abc_, got a link?
[15:27:35] <_abc_> just a second
[15:29:45] <_abc_> Tom_itx: abcminiuser_ >> http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/?idp=1&search=programmer&cleanParameters=1#search%3Dprogrammer%26id_category%3D112889%26md5%3Dt5a2066a5f94f46d5beebf0eeafbaff10 1st two links, one of them mentions lufa even on a sticker I think
[15:30:26] <_abc_> But I am not sure they use lufa, I never tried them. I just surmise they do.
[15:30:43] <_abc_> Clicking on the product opens a bigger picture
[15:30:55] <_abc_> http://www.tme.eu/en/details/avrprog-mkii/programmers/# and yes this one says lufa powered
[15:31:02] <_abc_> Which means they owe a royalty?!
[15:31:22] <_abc_> http://www.tme.eu/en/details/avrprog-t/programmers/# this one does not say anything at all
[15:31:31] <_abc_> So is it stolen from you guys?
[15:32:12] <_abc_> Tom_itx: abcminiuser_ ?
[15:32:27] <Tom_itx> the initial design was i believe
[15:32:53] <_abc_> Well if you think it was, do something about it?
[15:32:58] <Tom_itx> originally i had posted the schematic as a reference but long since removed it
[15:33:08] * abcminiuser_ back in a sec, just finishing a crazy script
[15:33:09] <Tom_itx> and what do you suggest i do?
[15:33:24] <Tom_itx> fly to eu and beat the crap outta them?
[15:33:31] <_abc_> Well it is gpl so take it to the gpl people, they have a lot of leverage, even in Poland
[15:33:37] <Tom_itx> i did send some emails out
[15:33:48] <_abc_> I am serious, the gpl is only as good as the people behind it.
[15:33:54] <_abc_> Tom_itx: and no answer?
[15:34:03] <Tom_itx> they swear it wasn't copied although even back then the website wording was stolen from mine
[15:34:10] <_abc_> So start a petition here on freenode, and we will pester them with a louder voice?
[15:34:28] <Tom_itx> i'm not about to start a big huff over it
[15:34:37] <_abc_> Tom_itx: there is an easy way to find out. You can get a 20€ device and physically check it out.
[15:34:46] <Tom_itx> i did it to help the avr community and have a bit of fun making it
[15:34:59] <_abc_> okay, so ask for 1€ out of every unit sold
[15:35:14] <_abc_> Maybe you will be able to afford to fly to eu on that heh :)
[15:35:30] <Tom_itx> and at the time anyway, all dean required was a mention of lufa
[15:35:39] <_abc_> Hah
[15:35:50] <Tom_itx> because at the time they didn't give any credit to that
[15:35:52] <_abc_> But now there is a $1500 commercial license option?
[15:36:03] <_abc_> Well now they mention lufa powered.
[15:36:54] <Tom_itx> i think my blue box is cooler than a clamshell anyway
[15:36:59] <_abc_> I really don't mind ultra cheap open source designs being peddled about but I do mind blatant theft.
[15:37:41] <Tom_itx> china does it all the time
[15:37:45] <_abc_> For example I had the option between LUFA and a usb to rs232 based solution for a project, and I opted for the usb to rs232 because the low volume would not have justified $1500 license for lufa
[15:37:57] <_abc_> Tom_itx: China does it all the time and I would like to nuke them for that alone
[15:38:08] <_abc_> (the other reason is price dumping on labor)
[15:38:30] <OndraSter> how much is dangerous having in final firmware the option to write to _any_ address within memory space?
[15:38:36] <OndraSter> (ergo even all registers)
[15:38:46] <OndraSter> disabling interrupt = burn baby burn!
[15:38:47] <_abc_> I was just reading that textile industry jobs outsourced to China are returning to Europe because the pay increased in China to EU levels.
[15:39:13] <_abc_> OndraSter: you mean from a user menu?
[15:39:18] <OndraSter> not really
[15:39:23] <OndraSter> you have to connect to the serial port
[15:39:24] <_abc_> then what?
[15:39:33] <OndraSter> and manually do a <some address> w <some number>
[15:39:45] <OndraSter> but it is there...
[15:39:53] <_abc_> that is called a resident monitor and is normally removed before shipping the product
[15:40:00] <_abc_> unless you have reason to allow the user to do that
[15:40:08] <OndraSter> well I will be shipping only one piece to myself and one to school in the end
[15:40:16] <OndraSter> and I will be providing library for writing stuff into it...
[15:40:30] <_abc_> So then set a pin and leave it there. You might want to use it later to debug obscure problems.
[15:40:30] <Tom_itx> _abc_, all i'm saying is there weren't any until mine came out
[15:40:40] <_abc_> Tom_itx: any what?
[15:40:47] <Tom_itx> avrisp mkii clones
[15:40:53] <_abc_> Oh
[15:41:09] <Tom_itx> other than the chinese knockoffs of the avrisp
[15:41:22] <Tom_itx> that had no support for PDI or TPI
[15:41:32] <_abc_> Bah I am frolicking with the idea to mash up a pic and an atmel and a jtag programmer into one device :)
[15:42:00] <_abc_> I built and used programmers for development and production before heh.
[15:42:05] <Tom_itx> pic needs 12v don't they?
[15:42:08] <_abc_> All in house stuff
[15:42:24] <_abc_> Tom_itx: Yes, some need 13.2 some need 8.5 some need 7.5
[15:42:39] <_abc_> Tom_itx: also some have wacky 3.3V only programming pins on a 5V part
[15:42:43] <_abc_> It's a mess
[15:42:43] <Tom_itx> i made a pic programmer years ago
[15:42:50] <_abc_> But it's okay, I can handle it
[15:42:52] <Tom_itx> never use it now
[15:43:18] <_abc_> Heh my 1st pic programmer was for 16c54 in the early-mid 1990s, parallel, parallel port drive, but serial shift registers :)
[15:43:48] <Tom_itx> probably about the same time period
[15:43:51] <_abc_> I'm a weird guy like that I always have to have a hands on programmer for any chip I use.
[15:43:52] * OndraSter has got no PIC chip at home!
[15:43:55] <OndraSter> for now
[15:44:07] <OndraSter> I suppose that those USB altera blaster clones have PIC inside
[15:44:08] <Tom_itx> keep it that way
[15:44:51] <_abc_> Those were the times, get a pic16c54jw, or three (they were $20 each), and use the UV eraser while burning one, testing, burning the second, testing, then waiting until the 1st one in the UV was ready (~20 minutes).
[15:45:04] <OndraSter> :D
[15:45:12] <OndraSter> early-mid 90s I was barely born :o)
[15:45:38] <_abc_> You had a pipeline of pics in the uv and the reek of ozone to live with.
[15:45:54] <_abc_> I wonder how many years that cut off the warranty for my lungs...
[15:46:00] <OndraSter> _abc_, wondering what happens with SCK line @ 8MHz from mega128a, when there is chained 24 devices on the SPI bus, split into 4 buses and each connected with few cm long wire?
[15:46:01] <OndraSter> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=40bf7833586103ab&resid=40BF7833586103AB!462&parid=40BF7833586103AB!111&authkey=!ABPxBtdpktQIhqk
[15:46:05] <OndraSter> the upper line lol
[15:46:16] <_abc_> OndraSter: not good
[15:46:21] <OndraSter> but it works
[15:46:24] <OndraSter> :P
[15:46:32] <_abc_> use some bus driver to boost the signal and use fan out <= 10 per driver
[15:46:40] <_abc_> this is the normal way to do it
[15:46:50] <OndraSter> well, as long as it works, I don't want to mess with it
[15:46:58] <OndraSter> it could still be way worse
[15:47:18] <_abc_> I make an educated guess about your design being unstable in case of external noise or any problem with the supply etc
[15:47:28] <OndraSter> supply -- USB
[15:47:32] <_abc_> O.o
[15:47:46] <OndraSter> plus battery for the LEDs themselves
[15:48:00] <_abc_> Anyway, things are the way they should be in my designs. You will not catch me with such hairy crap.
[15:48:09] <OndraSter> :)
[15:49:07] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, i've got irc logs to the 90's i think
[15:49:17] <OndraSter> wow
[15:49:45] * _abc_ haz some of his news postings and a lot of email logs
[15:49:51] <_abc_> from the 1990s
[15:50:08] <Tom_itx> i'd have to dig to find em though
[15:51:16] <_abc_> I know where they are but I need to unzip an ungodly amount of data to get at them.
[15:51:40] <_abc_> tar.gz monstrosities (like 6 years of email on mailing lists with >100 msgs/day)
[16:00:47] <specing> _abc_: tarfs :D
[16:01:19] <_abc_> yeah if I click on those things with a gui file browser the computer starts churning like mad, with good reason.
[16:01:27] <_abc_> I don't have time for those relics now
[16:11:43] <abcminiuser_> *&^(*&^(*ING BASH
[16:12:12] <abcminiuser_> _abc_, you don't have to pay me
[16:12:27] <abcminiuser_> You can just put in a copy of the LUFA license into your product docs, then it's free
[16:15:12] <_abc_> okay I will see. For now it uses a usb to rs232 chip and works fine.
[16:19:04] <_abc_> abcminiuser_: heh I had a bash script on my hands most of last week and this one. It was fun. #bash is very helpful.
[16:19:40] <_abc_> And I find bash is okay, once you get the hang of it. The manual could be less terse in certain areas, though.
[16:19:55] <abcminiuser_> _abc_, tearing my hair out
[16:20:01] <abcminiuser_> Kinda got it, but wget is janky
[16:20:06] <_abc_> I wrote 3000+loc scripts in bash, some are hairy parsers even, they work fine for years
[16:20:14] <_abc_> abcminiuser_: so switch to curl
[16:21:07] <_abc_> abcminiuser_: also you know that even links and elinks and lynx have spider modes?
[16:30:15] <abcminiuser_> *^*&^
[16:30:19] <abcminiuser_> This should be simple:
[16:30:38] <abcminiuser_> For each given HTML file, visit all links excluding given domains, verify they exist
[16:30:42] <abcminiuser_> And abort if not
[16:30:57] <abcminiuser_> wget just plain ignores the domain exclusion, and doesn't abort if there's an error
[16:41:52] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: wget ... -r -l 2 -S --save-headers ... ?
[16:42:04] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skAePZGgpAA
[16:42:21] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: it is in the nature of crawling that it mostly succeeds, so wget is happy it got some data and not pessimist about not having gotten all of it
[16:43:17] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: you also likely want -t1
[16:44:04] <_abc_> and --dns-timeout=5 or such
[16:45:19] <abcminiuser__> cat $$html_file | grep -v "doxygen\.org" | grep -v "fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA\.php" | wget -nv -B $(dir $$html_file) --spider --force-html --input-file=-
[16:45:35] <abcminiuser__> The cat/grep chain is because wget is retarded and won't ignore domains properly
[16:46:03] <abcminiuser__> But this still doesn't work, some links are bad so it prints "herp derp bad URL" to the terminal and continues on
[16:48:16] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: you wnat -H and -G together I think
[16:49:03] <_abc_> And yes, do not expect wget to decide something is bad by itself, it can only do that if you run it on each file (single target url per call)
[16:49:39] <_abc_> I have not used -H in a long time
[16:50:01] <_abc_> Or maybe I do not understand what you wan
[16:50:03] <_abc_> *t
[16:52:49] <_zap_> hi. can you recommend a low cost avr board with both ethernet and usb device port (or otg)?
[16:53:18] <_zap_> something like http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2615&dDocName=en545713 for avr
[16:53:21] <_abc_> I don't know what to say abcminiuser__ I have never used --spider only -r
[16:53:22] <abcminiuser__> _abc_, see above for what I actually want it to do
[16:53:30] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: yeah I got it.
[16:53:34] <abcminiuser__> I just want *any* script that can do it
[16:54:34] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: see man lynx option -traversal
[16:55:13] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: another option: turn your list of input files into a html page, and submit that to curl as input.
[16:55:43] <_abc_> abcminiuser__: this time not using --spider but using -H and -G
[16:55:48] <_abc_> and -r and -l 1
[16:55:58] <_abc_> That way it should respect -G
[17:02:49] <Tom_itx> what was that alternate ethernet chip someone here was using besides the pic one
[17:02:59] <Tom_itx> i forgot to bookmark it
[17:06:50] <Tom_itx> wiznet w5200
[17:21:57] <OndraSter> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=40bf7833586103ab&resid=40BF7833586103AB!463&parid=40BF7833586103AB!111&authkey=!AE74By58H75dSBU
[17:21:57] <OndraSter> :)
[17:22:07] <OndraSter> PC generated
[17:25:50] <Tom_itx> no scrolling banner yet??
[17:27:20] <OndraSter> onpe
[17:27:21] <OndraSter> nope
[17:27:41] <OndraSter> I finished the firmware and memory addressing like 5 minutes ago
[17:27:47] <OndraSter> I foked it up
[17:27:58] <OndraSter> soldered one board not just upside down
[17:28:04] <OndraSter> but even swapped halves
[17:28:05] <OndraSter> lol
[17:28:13] <OndraSter> so I had to do some heavy programming to fix it in software
[17:28:15] <OndraSter> hello CapnKernel
[17:28:21] <OndraSter> you are here early!
[17:28:49] <CapnKernel> Fix it in software, eh OndraSter? :-)
[17:28:53] <CapnKernel> I'm at the airport
[17:29:29] <CapnKernel> Heaven knows why the hotel thought it was a good idea I arrive at 6 o'clock for a 9 o'clock flight. Maybe I was the guest from hell for daring to ask for coffee.
[17:30:09] <OndraSter> eh
[17:32:00] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, you missed it:
[17:32:01] <OndraSter> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=40bf7833586103ab&resid=40BF7833586103AB!463&parid=40BF7833586103AB!111&authkey=!AE74By58H75dSBU
[17:32:48] <Tom_itx> looks good OndraSter
[17:32:52] <OndraSter> thanks
[17:33:01] <OndraSter> now I need to put it into some ... box
[17:33:07] <OndraSter> that I need to drill in
[17:34:16] <Tom_itx> system meltdown... brb
[17:38:06] <CapnKernel> Thanks OndraSter, I'll be sure to look it up once I'm back to a country with real internet.
[17:38:19] <OndraSter> :)
[17:44:38] <Tom_itx> CapnKernel, how long do you figure you'll be in Au?
[17:51:20] <CapnKernel> Awesome, our plane will be doing aerobatics! http://imagebin.org/204898
[17:58:02] <OndraSter> lol capn
[17:58:03] <OndraSter> oh
[18:02:44] <Xata> hi
[18:04:13] <Xata> somebody made an r/2r 8-bit dac? what was your R?
[18:33:34] <OndraSter> considering how much costs dedicated DAC and how much cost precision resistors (0.1% tops) and require 8 bit ports, I prefer dedicated one.
[18:33:58] <OndraSter> maybe I overlooked come category on mouser
[18:34:35] <OndraSter> (yes I did)
[18:35:27] <OndraSter> still, dedicated one that connects to SPI/I2C was for me always better solution
[18:41:21] <Xata> OndraSter: well, i have no way to buy dedi dac, because there is no dacs in dip/pdio body in local shops. at least i can not find one. thanks, anyway
[18:41:59] <Xata> *dip/pdip
[18:42:07] <OndraSter> oh
[18:42:23] <OndraSter> breadboard?
[18:44:16] <Xata> OndraSter: not breadboard, but textolite and soldering iron. all what i have, yeah. no smd/any other bodies i can use except dip
[18:44:26] <OndraSter> oh
[18:44:44] <mrfrenzy> I'm looking at stm32, 12bit dac builtin for almost no money
[18:45:02] <OndraSter> :)
[18:45:06] <OndraSter> or xmegas...
[18:45:10] <OndraSter> but neither of them are in DIP
[18:46:12] <Xata> yep... that's why i am using atmega32a for all my experiments. maybe one day i'll become rich enough to buy the damn solderins station
[18:48:34] <Xata> but now. well, in proteus it works with r/2r, even thus they are metal film. but irl there will be troubles. on the third hand it's dirtyness will be ok for synthesis, i think
[18:48:51] <Xata> *its
[21:10:07] <ferdnaO> are ccfl lamps polarized?
[21:29:59] <Valen> dont think so
[21:30:05] <Valen> they need AC to run as i recall
[21:44:06] <ferdnaO> Valen, ok thanks =)
[22:58:40] <Metalsutton> Could anyone be of any assistance please? : http://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/razsd/construction_simple_avr_build_what_am_i_doing/
[22:59:08] <Metalsutton> I would like to post this on AVRfreaks, but I think they would get a bit angry at me for wasting forum space.
[23:01:19] <Valen> what are you using for usb?
[23:01:22] <Valen> ahh vusb
[23:01:29] <Valen> its fussy as i recall
[23:01:46] <Valen> you havent done something simple like invert the d+ d- lines?
[23:02:16] <Valen> first step
[23:02:25] <Valen> put an LED in there somewhere
[23:02:41] <Valen> load a flash a LED program into it and see if your chip is actually running
[23:03:48] <Valen> can you verify the chip?
[23:04:20] <Valen> I'd trim down the line the xtal is connected too as well
[23:04:50] <Valen> xtal drive is usually pretty weak Metalsutton
[23:05:04] <Casper> 27pf seems high too
[23:05:20] <Valen> i dont recall off hand what avrs are sposed to use
[23:05:23] <Valen> pic is 22pf
[23:05:28] <Casper> C1 is of too high value
[23:05:44] <Valen> depends what you want it for
[23:06:00] <Valen> but you would expect to see a smaller one there too
[23:06:03] <Casper> verify that D2/D3 ain't reversed
[23:06:25] <Casper> I'ld expect C1 to be 10-100nF
[23:06:31] <Casper> ceramic
[23:06:33] <Metalsutton> Diodes?
[23:06:50] <Metalsutton> sorry, very new. xtal?
[23:06:55] <Valen> crystal
[23:06:57] <Casper> crystal
[23:07:04] <Valen> JINX!!
[23:07:06] <Valen> ;-P
[23:07:30] <Valen> what avr are you using?
[23:07:50] <Metalsutton> hhhollldd up a minute. You are saying that crytal occilators are weak?
[23:08:26] <Metalsutton> ATMega8-16PU
[23:10:09] <Metalsutton> I can verify the chip in the programming board I made. I havnt tried hooking up a programmer with ISP to the mainboard. I have only programmed them with my seperate board and then moved them onto the breadboard for example, and the breadboard has worked fine.
[23:13:06] <Valen> ahh ok then
[23:13:17] <Valen> step 1 is put a flashing LED program in there and see if thats working
[23:13:47] <Valen> ISP is *really* handy by the way, it'll reduce your "cycle" time heaps
[23:14:58] <Metalsutton> these are non-complex usb convertors, I dont think I will be needing to do any in-circuit reprogramming.
[23:15:17] <Valen> heh first one you always need to
[23:15:26] <Valen> nothing ever works first time lol
[23:15:32] <Metalsutton> Suppose this is true.
[23:17:00] <Metalsutton> However if I can get a confirmation that what I have designed, againest what has been planned in the schematic, shouldn't have any problems, then I suppose I could look into it more, however I just feel my design is for some reason at fault here.
[23:17:09] <Valen> but yeah, step 1 is see if your running, put a LED in it somewhere
[23:17:42] <Metalsutton> Casper, I have posted full details including photos. D2/D3 are not reversed to my knowledge.
[23:18:07] <Valen> I'm amazed every time v-usb works
[23:18:24] <Metalsutton> sorry. what is v-usb?
[23:18:37] <Valen> usb by bit bashing pins
[23:18:54] <Valen> with no actual usb hardware
[23:18:55] <Metalsutton> Virtual usb? So the chip is tricking itself into supporting usb?
[23:19:10] <Metalsutton> or should i say. the code...
[23:20:07] <Valen> http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html
[23:20:14] <Valen> i presume thats what your code is using
[23:21:27] <Metalsutton> Correct.
[23:21:55] <Metalsutton> I have downloaded the hex files from the net. I beleive they do implement vusb.
[23:22:00] <Casper> bit banging usb
[23:22:06] <Casper> usually not work well
[23:22:22] <Metalsutton> But that doesn't explain why it works on a breadboard but not on a stripboard.
[23:23:49] <Casper> you changed the capacitance and impedance of all traces
[23:24:20] <Casper> hmmm
[23:24:24] <Valen> make the lines from the crystal to the mcu as short as possible, and trim them so they dont extend further than they need to
[23:24:27] <Casper> trace on pin 3
[23:24:33] <Casper> try to cut the useless part
[23:24:39] <Casper> same with the other usb lines
[23:24:49] <Casper> that will cut down on noise
[23:25:16] <Metalsutton> i see.
[23:25:23] <Casper> same for your xtal
[23:25:52] <Casper> btw, I can't get full adsl2+ here because they didn't cut the extra wire
[23:26:23] <Casper> they did a 6km run of wire, I'm 4.3km from the central, so there is about 1.6km of wire from me to... nowhere
[23:26:37] <Metalsutton> So at the end of the day, I should really be doing this by creating a proper pcb.
[23:26:48] <Casper> they put a new remote dslam at 600M from here and put filter on that side
[23:27:08] <Casper> if you're doing usb... you should really use a usb capable avr
[23:27:24] <Valen> yeah 27pf is too high
[23:27:37] <Valen> Recommended Range for Capacitors C1 and C2 for Use with Crystals (pF)
[23:27:45] <Valen> 12 - 22
[23:27:52] <Valen> assuming i have the right datasheet
[23:28:00] <Valen> page 302
[23:28:13] <Valen> bah page 27 rather
[23:28:53] <Metalsutton> hhmmm. I still dont understand this. It seems to work on the breadboard. How are the components now not correct?
[23:29:12] <Valen> breadboards are rather "active"
[23:29:19] <Valen> they have lots of stray capacatance and inductance
[23:29:41] <Valen> it sounds like your making this from some other schematic and then you changed it?
[23:29:56] <Metalsutton> I made it from what was posted.
[23:30:22] <Casper> Metalsutton: a breadboard is extremelly shitty
[23:30:39] <Casper> it have bad contacts, the traces are inductive and capacitive and high resistance
[23:30:41] <Metalsutton> The schematic that I posted is from a pro that sells this stuff. It has to work.
[23:30:47] <Casper> there is crosstalk between each rows
[23:30:57] <Casper> LOL@pro
[23:31:00] <Casper> you know
[23:31:00] <Valen> the problem is without having any kind of indicator on your board, you don't know where the problem is
[23:31:10] <Valen> you can't just keep guessing to debug it
[23:31:11] <Casper> it's not because someone sell it that he's a pro
[23:31:23] <Casper> a pro would NEVER sell bitbang usb
[23:31:47] <Casper> so your pro is probably an high school kid
[23:31:49] <Metalsutton> He knows his stuff anyway: http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/electronique_en.php
[23:31:57] <Valen> I'd look at putting an LED on there and flashing the LED, then turning it on and off as you go through the code
[23:32:58] <Valen> failing that, put a working breadboard one next to your current one and run a multimeter across the pins and look for a difference
[23:33:13] <Metalsutton> going though code now? Urgh. Im so confused, I thought this may have just been a connection problem or design problem.
[23:33:38] <Metalsutton> i like that 2nd option. I could do that.
[23:35:26] <Valen> carefull not to short it
[23:35:39] <Valen> also probing the clock lines will likley stall the chip
[23:36:32] <Casper> first thing is to try to cut down the unused length of strip
[23:36:44] <Valen> yeah thats the low hanging fruit
[23:36:53] <Valen> also i cant tell is that big cap in the right way?
[23:38:02] <Metalsutton> 10uf - as shown here. http://i.imgur.com/Y1vtg.png
[23:38:14] <Metalsutton> Oh whoops. In the right way... uummm
[23:38:32] <Metalsutton> Board A or B?
[23:38:55] <Metalsutton> Board A is going + top - bottom. Board B is going - top + bottom
[23:40:11] <Valen> i dunno
[23:40:23] <Valen> just make sure the marking on the cap lines up with -ve (i think)
[23:40:39] <Valen> its a pretty simple board really
[23:40:51] <Metalsutton> yeah it is.
[23:41:07] <Valen> and your really tying your hands trying to debug it without any form of feedback
[23:42:03] <Metalsutton> On board A the line is facing down because its going from the 5V to ground, and the other board is going upwards, because the lines get switched over at the MCU.
[23:43:14] <Metalsutton> I am wondering how do I cut the lines near the Crystal if the capaciters are as close as possible to it?
[23:44:32] <Casper> just cut what isn't used
[23:47:29] <ziph> What's the problem with hanging stubs off the crystal lines? :)
[23:48:24] <Metalsutton> ???
[23:48:50] <ziph> I'm asking Casper
[23:49:12] <Casper> picking up more interference
[23:49:12] <Casper> and
[23:49:29] <Casper> the signal travel until the end of the wire, then bounce back
[23:49:32] <Casper> so you get echo
[23:50:33] <ziph> The loop the crystal is in will be completely open circuit for most frequencies.
[23:50:58] <ziph> Metalsutton: You don't even know if the AVR is running?
[23:51:41] <Casper> he said he can program it
[23:51:49] <Casper> so it does run
[23:51:55] <Casper> but might run unstable
[23:52:29] <Casper> hmm
[23:52:31] <Casper> Metalsutton
[23:52:36] <ziph> Out of USB tolerance you mean?
[23:52:39] <Casper> is it the same avr than on the breadboard?
[23:53:20] <Metalsutton> correct.
[23:53:40] <Metalsutton> I have heaps of chips that I can possibaly program (ATmega8's)
[23:55:15] <Metalsutton> Unless I have somehow made a serious error on both boards. Just the fact that you havn't pointed out any "oh you have this component in the right place" is a good start.
[23:56:06] <Metalsutton> I understand that the tracks can cause problems. I just initialy thought it was because of the way I designed it. Like the 5v and the GND being close to each other.
[23:56:46] <Valen> Casper: he is programming it in a different board
[23:56:54] <Valen> he doesn't know if its working unless the whole thing works
[23:57:16] <Valen> doesn't even have a LED on it
[23:57:30] <Metalsutton> Well. technicaly I kind of do.
[23:59:11] <Casper> Valen: actually if the avr can be programmed then it does run
[23:59:25] <Casper> we just don't know if it run off the xtal or internal RC
[23:59:27] <Casper> and if it's stable
[23:59:37] <Metalsutton> One of the controllers that I am connecting to the I/O of the chip requires a 5v and it lights up the LED. But I suppose you were meaning an led I could use around the board like a conduitvy test? I use my avr programmer with its little light to test for voltage connection. and everything checks out ok. I even solved a problem with a bad solder that threw 5v thoughout almost the entire circuit.
[23:59:37] <Metalsutton> That was bad. Very bad.
[23:59:48] <Valen> Casper: he physically takes the avr out of his circuit, and plugs it into a sperate programmer board