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[00:09:58] <learningc> any place I can buy good cheap solder paste?
[00:14:14] <eruif> the solder paste store.
[01:03:19] <CapnKernel> Here'
[01:03:28] <CapnKernel> Here's "good enough" cheap solder paste:
http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mechanic-advanced-quality-soldering-solder-flux-paste-50g.html
[01:03:55] <CapnKernel> I use that one, I think Tom_itx might use the same brand.
[01:09:28] <Valen> when will the chinese realise that luck and magic arent what westerners want to depend on when buying a product
[01:14:45] <agile_aardvark> this is more like "buying from us? good luck!"
[01:20:54] <CapnKernel> I don't think they ever will. They are a deeply, deeply superstitious people.
[01:22:34] <Casper> another problem is the translation issue
[01:23:55] <Casper> literal translation is often a complete fail
[01:24:41] <Valen> perhaps there is some truth in advertising laws there
[01:25:27] <Casper> talking about truth in advertisement...
[01:26:04] <CapnKernel> The idea of "good luck buy" is that buying there is supposed to bring you good luck. Riiight.
[01:26:11] <Casper> I often see borderline false advertisement of products on tv, yet mother think that it's allright and that if it was the case their legal team would have stopped them
[01:26:33] <Valen> i think advertisers shouldn't be allowed to use weasel words
[01:26:36] <Valen> "may improve"
[01:26:45] <Valen> "covers up to 97%"
[01:26:46] <CapnKernel> I explained to my friend that to foreigners, when they hear "good luck buy", the impression they get is that shopping there is a gamble: You may or may not get something worth having.
[01:26:50] <CapnKernel> His comment: "Oh".
[01:28:15] <Casper> Valen: or use photoshop to worsen the initial person and then photoshop again to make it look even better than reality
[01:28:16] <Casper> or
[01:28:26] <Casper> literally use 2 different persons
[01:29:02] <Landon> Valen: I always thought ads attacking other brands were illegal.... but now I see them all the time :(
[01:29:19] <Casper> Landon: there is something about them
[01:29:22] <Valen> I don't see tv ads
[01:29:27] <Casper> they attack their own brand
[01:29:50] <Casper> one compagny can now own hundreads of brands
[01:30:35] <Casper> for example: gm vs chevrolet
[02:43:55] <Sgt_Lemming> potential Hackerspace site inspection went well, massive new site
[09:14:33] <Steffanx> So CapnKernel1 .. in jail yet?
[09:17:01] <CapnKernel1> Give me a chance, still got five days to get there! :-)
[09:17:22] <CapnKernel1> You think this getting into jail thing happens overnight?
[09:19:41] <CapnKernel1> Now where did I put that copy of "Organised Crime for Dummies"?
[09:33:15] <specing> CapnKernel1: It can happen over daytime too
[09:36:04] <CapnKernel1> LOL
[09:38:50] <specing> Now you know.
[09:47:46] <Tom_itx> you guys stop pickin on CapnKernel1
[09:47:54] <Tom_itx> that's my job
[09:48:23] <Tom_itx> he may soon learn the meaning of 'no man's land'
[09:48:29] <CapnKernel1> Just to let you guys know
[09:48:35] <CapnKernel1> If you want to pick on me,
[09:48:49] <CapnKernel1> head on over to
http://www.pickonthecapn.com/
[09:49:22] <CapnKernel1> Tickets just USD (+USD3 for registered, +USD20 for DHL, add %5 for Paypal)
[09:49:28] <CapnKernel1> Now let's have a nice orderly queue!
[09:50:29] <CapnKernel1> Tom_itx: Reminds me of Morticia from The Addams Family: "Don't torture yourself Gomez, that's *my* job"
[09:50:46] <Tom_itx> page not found
[09:50:59] <Tom_itx> but it did redirect to my 'pay per view' site
[09:50:59] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:51:06] <CapnKernel1> :-)
[09:55:02] <Steffanx> How can a unfindable page redirect you Tom_itx ?
[09:55:23] <CapnKernel1> A lying, cheating stinking DNS server
[09:55:30] <CapnKernel1> Such as the ones in use in China.
[10:07:15] <Tom_itx> or the US
[10:08:09] <specing> CapnKernel1: That domain doesen't exist
[10:09:25] <CapnKernel1> Oh? Try
http://www.itwasjustajoke.com/, it may work better.
[10:09:45] <specing> the domain name www.itwasjustajoke.com could not be resolved
[10:10:06] <CapnKernel1> Are you trolling me, or are you really that gullible?
[10:10:16] <CapnKernel1> Please don't troll me, that's ziph's job
[10:10:19] <specing> Im just copying what privoxy tells me
[10:10:27] * CapnKernel1 laughs
[11:00:48] <Tom_itx> ok boxes all ready to go
[11:00:53] <Tom_itx> screen printing n all
[11:01:12] <CapnKernel1> Did you screen print them?
[11:01:19] <Tom_itx> of course
[11:01:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_silk.jpg
[11:02:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_cutout1.jpg
[11:04:08] <Tom_itx> UV activated paint
[11:04:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
[11:05:30] <Steffanx> Tom_itx or ½ of the world is downloading the images
[11:05:32] <Steffanx> or it's just slow again
[11:05:45] <Tom_itx> i'll go reboot it
[11:05:45] <Tom_itx> hang on
[11:08:55] <Tom_itx> now give it a whirl
[11:09:41] <Steffanx> Yeah, it's better now
[11:09:47] <Tom_itx> i should put those all on a page
[11:09:49] <CapnKernel1> That's so pro
[11:10:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch.jpg
[11:10:27] <Steffanx> Nice nice
[11:10:42] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, what kind of UV pain is it
[11:10:43] <OndraSter> ?
[11:10:47] <CapnKernel1> Sunburn
[11:10:55] <OndraSter> or w/e is it
[11:11:13] <Tom_itx> OndraSter i'm not sure, i got it from a local sign company that did alot of silkscreening on plastic etc
[11:11:18] <OndraSter> oh
[11:11:19] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:11:23] <Tom_itx> they said it was the very best for that application
[11:11:23] <OndraSter> how much did it cost?
[11:11:25] <OndraSter> it looks good
[11:11:29] <Tom_itx> it was a sample
[11:11:32] <CapnKernel1> Do you ever have problems with fluff from the carpet?
[11:11:37] <Tom_itx> it goes a long long ways
[11:11:42] <Tom_itx> CapnKernel1, no
[11:11:47] <Tom_itx> i do it outside now
[11:11:51] <CapnKernel1> Ahh
[11:12:00] <Tom_itx> those were in a room nobody goes in
[11:12:23] <Tom_itx> and i made sure the air was still when i put them there
[11:12:43] <Tom_itx> i've got an exhaust fan in the garage for such things
[11:13:48] <CapnKernel1> On a zero-absorbency surface like plastic, I can't understand why surface tension doesn't pull the ink sideways from unmasked areas to masked areas
[11:14:03] <Tom_itx> it actually sticks to it pretty well
[11:14:28] <Tom_itx> i think it's also a chemical bond
[11:14:48] <CapnKernel1> That would explain it
[11:14:53] <CapnKernel1> Thanks
[11:15:13] <Tom_itx> when i was setting it up, i tested a couple and had to wipe the lettering off one and it left a tiny indentation where the print was
[11:17:02] <CapnKernel1> The concavity produced by the etch-in may be what holds the ink from migrating.
[11:19:24] <Tom_L> OndraSter, i'm sure it's similar to this:
http://www.uvtech.us/products.php#link6
[11:19:33] <OndraSter> thanks :)
[11:19:42] <Tom_L> for screen printing
[11:20:35] <Tom_L> it's the same (similar) stuff that they use on women's fingernails
[11:20:48] <Tom_L> you could use one of those UV lamps to cure small batches of it
[11:21:01] <Tom_L> just don't tell the women
[11:21:03] <Tom_L> :)
[11:21:16] <OndraSter> :D
[11:22:05] <Tom_L> http://www.alliedphotochemical.com/colorcoat.html
[11:22:11] <Tom_L> another similar company
[11:22:13] <CapnKernel1> So as hobbyists, might be cheaper/more widely available to buy UV curable nail polish :-)
[11:22:34] <Tom_L> here anyway, they won't sell to the general public
[11:22:40] <Tom_L> you need to be a licensed cosmotologist
[11:23:14] <Tom_L> i told them what i was doing when i was looking for a UV light source and they said they may make an exception
[11:23:33] <Tom_L> you can buy them on ebay though
[11:23:57] <Tom_L> just not nearly as big as the bulbs i have
[11:24:13] <Tom_L> i saw the lamp table at the sign shop and it was huge compared to mine
[11:24:22] <OndraSter> hehe
[11:24:28] <Tom_L> it rolls the screenprint thru on a conveyor
[11:24:35] <Tom_L> and by the time it's thru, it's dry
[11:29:36] <OndraSter> hmm I am watching some document about electricity
[11:29:44] <OndraSter> and they spoke about some show that Tesla did
[11:29:51] <OndraSter> where high freq high voltage went through him like nothing
[11:29:53] <OndraSter> and didn't kill him
[11:29:58] <OndraSter> it somehow reminded me Steve Jobs :D
[11:30:13] <mrfrenzy> that's a classic demonstration with someone holding a fluro tube and it lights up
[11:30:28] <OndraSter> yeah
[11:31:51] <ziph> Maybe that's where it got the term skin effect. ;)
[11:33:13] * amee2k pokes dirty_d
[11:33:45] <OndraSter> dirty_d, were you here when I cracked the transistor issue yesterday
[11:33:48] <OndraSter> or the day before it was...
[11:34:27] <Steffanx> or the day before that
[11:34:50] <OndraSter> nope
[11:34:51] <OndraSter> Fri or Sat
[11:37:15] <amee2k> dirty_d: not sure if that would be acceptable in the other chan, but here is the thevenin solution, if you're interrested:
http://ompldr.org/vZDJmeg/CIMG9299b.jpeg
[11:38:03] <OndraSter> other chan = #electronics? :P
[11:38:10] <OndraSter> never been there (lucky me!)
[11:38:11] <amee2k> no
[11:38:19] <amee2k> i haven't been to that dump in ages lol
[11:38:34] <amee2k> i hear GuShH still hangs out there for good comedy :P
[11:38:46] <OndraSter> I don't like thevenin/norton stuff. I always do some error in the math :( :D
[11:39:00] <ziph> What was the question that the jpeg corresponds to?
[11:39:55] <amee2k> ziph: devise a resistor network with two inputs V1 and V2 and one output Vout that mixes the two inputs using the ratios given in the first equation
[11:43:29] <amee2k> i think the intended solution was using superposition by loading the output, then analysing it for the two input voltages separately to determine the resistor ratios
[11:46:08] <Tom_itx> is this that MIT class?
[11:56:43] <rue_house> ooo
[11:57:00] <rue_house> been a long time since I did stuff with norton/thev..
[11:57:10] <amee2k> Tom_itx: shushhhhh :)
[11:57:52] <rue_house> are the input 0 ohms impedence?
[11:57:53] <ziph> amee2k: You can set Va and Vb to 0V to get niceish equations out of it as you do with S-parameters and friends.
[11:58:02] <rue_house> hahah its snowing
[11:58:07] <rue_house> silly weather
[11:58:31] <cyanide> hello folks
[11:58:40] <rue_house> that will make it a challange to make the wheel... dollies... today.... I'm in the wrong channel.......
[11:58:45] <rue_house> hi!
[11:59:22] <amee2k> rue_house: yeah, assumed to be ideal voltage sources. and the output goes to an ideal high impedance input too
[11:59:57] <rue_house> wait that should be hard
[12:00:12] <rue_house> whats the input output ratio
[12:00:30] <amee2k> Vout = 1/2*V1 + 1/6*V2
[12:00:39] <amee2k> ziph: yeah, i know. but by the time i realized that i was already half done with this approach so i decided to just finish it
[12:01:10] <amee2k> maybe i'll do the superposition thing too sometime later
[12:01:25] <ziph> It isn't superposition strictly.
[12:01:36] <ziph> Err, actually it is.
[12:01:42] <rue_house> do they specify an output impedence?
[12:01:53] <amee2k> no
[12:01:59] <rue_house> oh rrrrly....
[12:02:05] <rue_house> that opens it up
[12:02:07] <amee2k> only the voltage ratios are given
[12:02:07] <CapnKernel1> assume inf
[12:02:18] <rue_house> ok
[12:02:26] <rue_house> well, how about this
[12:02:38] <CapnKernel1> ideal voltage source on the input, and an ideal voltmeter (inf impedance) on output
[12:02:46] <rue_house> give each input a target impedence of 500 ohms
[12:03:09] <rue_house> work out the divider to scale 1 of them by 1/2 and the other by 1/6
[12:03:26] <rue_house> I think I have a program for this
[12:03:47] <rue_house> 12 divides nicely by 1/2 and 1/6
[12:04:09] <rue_house> blast I ran out of terminals again
[12:04:32] <rue_house> ok, 1/2 first
[12:04:47] <rue_house> 12V in, 6V out, 500 ohms impedence
[12:05:39] <rue_house> hehe, where is that program I wrote
[12:05:42] <amee2k> in a way thats what i'm doing... refactored it to 1/2 * (V1 + 1/3*V2)
[12:05:58] <rue_house> 12V in, 6V out, 500 ohms impedence <-- see if you can answer before I find my program
[12:06:11] <amee2k> then made a divider on V2 that scales it to 1/3, calculated its output impedance, terminated V1 with the same value, then tied both together
[12:06:57] <rue_house> where is the one that goes by impedence...
[12:06:57] <amee2k> 1k?
[12:07:05] <rue_house> YOU CHEATED
[12:07:08] <rue_house> ok, fine
[12:07:09] <amee2k> i did?
[12:07:25] <rue_house> your supposed to use terribly complex math, not just work it out in your head
[12:07:32] <rue_house> I will ignore this infraction
[12:07:35] <amee2k> total impedance is 2*500 = 1k, and you need to drop half the voltage
[12:07:47] <rue_house> I'm quite aware of that thankyou...
[12:07:54] * rue_house grumbles
[12:07:56] <amee2k> mind you, that involves a terribly complex multiplication step
[12:08:07] <CapnKernel1> some people use algebra...
[12:08:08] <amee2k> not for the weak heart
[12:08:18] <rue_house> ok smartass
[12:08:24] <rue_house> next:
[12:08:27] <amee2k> :P
[12:08:42] <rue_house> input 12V output 4V 500 ohms impedence
[12:09:07] <rue_house> sorry, 1/6
[12:09:12] <rue_house> thats 2V out
[12:09:52] <rue_house> cant find the one that does impedence...
[12:10:23] <amee2k> 5k?
[12:10:28] <rue_house> and?
[12:10:40] <amee2k> hmm wait
[12:11:21] <amee2k> no, 2.5k... 2V corresponds to 500R and you need to drop 10 volts
[12:12:08] <rue_house> what divider has a ratio of 1/6 and an output impedence of 500R
[12:12:38] <amee2k> rue_house: 10 pizza points if you can guess why i don't like calculator apps now ;)
[12:13:01] <rue_house> its a pc app, and I just cant find it
[12:13:18] <rue_house> I converted my origionals from BASIC to C
[12:13:23] <amee2k> you're stalled because you can't find your shitty pocket calculator :P
[12:13:27] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, fix in trunk for a tiny programmer glitch
[12:13:27] <abcminiuser_> Didn't work at ISP speed of 64KHz (the slowest possible)
[12:13:27] <abcminiuser_> No one should actually USE that speed, but...
[12:13:28] <rue_house> but it looks like I just did the ones with real resistors
[12:13:48] <rue_house> abcminiuser_, hey! your back!
[12:14:43] <abcminiuser_> rue_house, I am indeed
[12:14:50] <abcminiuser_> I survided the pot smoke of Amsterdam
[12:14:55] <abcminiuser_> And dirty, dirty hippies
[12:16:55] <ziph> amee2k: Actually you can also set Va == Vb to also get another expression out that might be nicer to use.
[12:18:10] <ziph> You end up then just having to solve R3/(R1||R2+R3) == 2/3 and 1/(R2||R3)==R1
[12:19:19] <ziph> abcminiuser_: So was the big secret AVR Studio 6?
[12:19:46] <abcminiuser_> ziph, indeedy
[12:19:50] <abcminiuser_> Wait, big secret?
[12:20:03] <ziph> abcminiuser_: You said we had to wait for some shindig.
[12:20:13] <abcminiuser_> Ah yes, then yes AS6
[12:20:15] <abcminiuser_> ARM support
[12:20:21] <ziph> abcminiuser_: Will that mean it will be slower for them to finish AS5?
[12:20:21] <abcminiuser_> And XMEGA C
[12:20:29] <ziph> *grin, duck, run*
[12:20:36] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, what's the glitch?
[12:20:36] <abcminiuser_> ziph, AS6 IS AS5.1, but with ARM stuff added
[12:20:44] <ziph> XMEGA C?
[12:20:49] <ziph> There isn't already a GCC for them?
[12:20:50] <abcminiuser_> They literally renamed the codebase AS6 and added in ARM debug packages
[12:21:06] <abcminiuser_> ziph, new XMEGA series, and the Atmel Toolchain already supports some of them
[12:21:15] <ziph> Ah.
[12:21:20] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx,
https://code.google.com/p/lufa-lib/issues/detail?id=46
[12:21:32] <Tom_itx> ahh just read ^^
[12:21:40] <ziph> So what's happening with the AVR32 now that they seem to be showing more interesting in promoting the ARM's? :)
[12:21:45] <abcminiuser_> So moving forward everyone will use AS6 instead of AS5, it's just a progression
[12:22:09] <abcminiuser_> ziph, IIRC they think they have all the important areas covered with the current UC3 devices, so not sure what's happening
[12:22:25] <abcminiuser_> But I'm sure they won't care which you choose as long as it says Atmel on the chip
[12:22:29] <ziph> abcminiuser_: :)
[12:22:32] <rue_house> amee2k, no I'm looking for a C app I already wrote
[12:22:44] <OndraSter> the difference is - AVR Dragon works with UC3, doesn't with ARM :(
[12:22:55] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, yet
[12:22:58] <OndraSter> wow
[12:22:59] <OndraSter> it will?
[12:23:01] <OndraSter> <3 Atmel
[12:23:04] <OndraSter> Armel!
[12:24:38] <Tom_itx> we up to as7 yet?
[12:25:29] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, I'm not saying that
[12:25:36] <abcminiuser_> But it's not on the "we won't do this" pile
[12:27:27] <ziph> What is on the "we won't do this" pile? :)
[12:30:34] <abcminiuser_> ziph, adding support for PIC tools?
[12:31:01] <ziph> abcminiuser_: When Microchip buys you out they'll fix that.
[12:31:04] <Tom_itx> what about arm?
[12:31:06] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:31:36] <abcminiuser_> The AVR ONE will most likely get ARM support
[12:31:40] <abcminiuser_> Not sure about the other tools
[12:34:14] <learningc> anyone use lead-free solder paste?
[12:35:25] <Tom_itx> not yet
[12:36:00] <learningc> heard they are harder to work with
[12:36:09] <Tom_itx> true
[12:36:41] <learningc> but at least you don't run the risk of contaminating stuff around you
[12:36:59] <rue_house> found it!
[12:37:06] <rue_house> I never converted it...
[12:43:15] <rue_house> amee2k, the answer is 600 ohms and 3000 ohms
[12:44:35] <rue_house> amee2k, still here?
[12:44:59] <ziph> rue_house: The answer is R1=2/3 R3 and R2 = 2 R3
[12:45:40] <rue_house> oh you wanted a formula answer
[12:46:00] <rue_house> I used 4 resistors 2 of them in parallel
[12:47:34] <ziph> I don't know, but I only mention it because your answer doesn't match the formula. :)
[12:48:31] <rue_house> thats cause I used 4 resistors
[12:48:55] <rue_house> two dividers connected togethor
[12:49:01] <rue_house> one uses 500:500
[12:49:12] <rue_house> the other is 3000:600
[12:50:02] <rue_house> so the resistor to ground is 500||600
[12:50:13] <rue_house> 1/2V input series resistor is 500
[12:50:22] <rue_house> and 1/6 input resistor is 3000
[12:50:29] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, that compatibility switch didn't make any difference the other day
[12:50:53] <rue_house> I dont have a program to calculate two resistors in parallel...
[12:52:22] <ziph> rue_house: You should be able to do that in your head.
[12:52:54] <rue_house> 500 and 600 in parallel
[12:53:01] <rue_house> I dont calculate resistors that often
[12:53:08] <rue_house> I stay with digital circuits
[12:53:17] <rue_house> where R1 is almost ALWAYS 1k
[12:53:44] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, oh?
[12:54:05] <OndraSter> I don't calculate resistors much either
[12:54:07] <OndraSter> I just guess them lol
[12:54:18] <OndraSter> and pullups/downs are 10k or 4k7
[12:54:29] <ziph> 100*5*6/(5+6)
[12:55:50] <ziph> Or just around 600 to 500. ;)
[12:58:34] <ziph> jOr just round 600 to 500 rather.
[13:01:07] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, download and verify times were the same
[13:18:30] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, still slow?
[13:51:47] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser__, verify was 8 sec
[13:52:07] <Tom_itx> download was .63 iirc
[14:17:38] <dirty_d> amee2k, cool
[14:17:48] <dirty_d> OndraSter, i wasnt here
[14:18:20] <OndraSter> and you were the one that was helping me? :)
[14:19:35] <amee2k> dirty_d: :)
[14:19:55] <dirty_d> OndraSter, yea
[14:20:02] <OndraSter> oh, well the solution was simple
[14:20:16] <OndraSter> instead of BC337 and BC547, neither of them worked, I used C945
[14:20:18] <OndraSter> also NPN
[14:20:29] <OndraSter> different pinout though, so it is soldered from the bottom
[14:20:31] <OndraSter> but... it works!
[14:20:55] <dirty_d> ahh cool
[14:21:06] <OndraSter> but... not 337, not 547 worked
[14:21:07] <OndraSter> no idea why
[14:25:20] <OndraSter> CapnKernel1, so, any results?
[14:26:30] <specing> He is stuck in the chinese dimension
[14:28:53] <cyanide> should aref and avcc be connected?
[14:32:05] <Tom_itx> unless you're using a different ref
[14:32:14] <Tom_itx> avcc goes to VCC
[14:34:02] <cyanide> that's where its going
[14:34:11] <cyanide> should aref be connected to the same?
[14:35:15] <Tom_itx> unless you're using an internal ref or need a voltage divider as a reference
[14:35:26] <Tom_itx> i think the data sheet covers this
[14:35:31] <cyanide> ok
[14:42:52] <jadew> some chips require aref to be bypassed, even when using the internal ref
[14:46:40] * jadew needs a new project
[14:49:23] <specing> jadew: Take some of mine so I can breathe easier!
[14:49:28] <jadew> I initially wanted to build a thermometer, ended up building several target borads, a programmer, a power source, a function generator, bought an oscilloscope but now I that I have everything I need, can't get myself to build the thermometer
[14:50:07] <jadew> just doesn't seem challanging enough
[14:50:31] <Steffanx> abcminiuser__ "The Dutch really know how to make a decent breakfast."
[14:50:40] <Steffanx> No way that's how we eat breakfast here in NL :P
[14:51:08] <abcminiuser__> Steffanx, you'll eat it and you'll like it damnit
[14:51:27] <Steffanx> No thanks
[14:56:08] <Steffanx> Hmm, crappy internet in norway?
[14:56:12] <Steffanx> or crappy client/pc ?
[14:56:28] <abcminiuser_> Crappy router
[14:57:23] <OndraSter> this price is so... yummy
[14:57:24] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260898774670?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[14:57:44] <OndraSter> but... how come that they are the same? One should be .5mm pitch and the other one .8 or so
[14:57:57] <Steffanx> Why they look fake to me?
[14:58:04] <OndraSter> dunno
[14:58:30] <Steffanx> No atmel-ish logo
[14:58:34] <OndraSter> and why MLF chips are more expensive than SOIC ones?
[14:58:47] <Steffanx> or doesn't soic have that logo
[14:58:55] <OndraSter> well it is... SMALL
[14:59:24] <Steffanx> *sop
[14:59:54] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, if you have to ask, they're fake
[15:00:06] <Steffanx> lol
[15:00:09] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, really? :(
[15:00:26] <cyanide> lots of atmel fakes on ebay
[15:00:49] <OndraSter> they are like $1.5 locally
[15:01:05] <cyanide> how much on mouser?
[15:01:32] <OndraSter> $1.03 if you buy one
[15:01:48] <abcminiuser_> I mean they could be legit
[15:01:52] <abcminiuser_> But most likely, not
[15:02:13] <OndraSter> hah I found reseller for mouser
[15:02:16] <OndraSter> will take a look at it later
[15:02:25] <cyanide> where are you from?
[15:07:13] <OndraSter> (you ask every single time)
[15:07:14] <OndraSter> CZE
[15:07:46] <OndraSter> shipping: <150€ -- $6, =>150€ -- free
[15:08:49] <OndraSter> better than original mouser: <150€: 40€, 150€+ -- free
[15:08:53] <OndraSter> or USPS is 80€
[15:08:54] <OndraSter> lol
[15:08:57] <OndraSter> err
[15:08:57] <OndraSter> UPS
[15:09:17] <OndraSter> anyway, better than farnell this mausel
[15:09:24] <OndraSter> the reseller for mauser
[15:09:27] <OndraSter> mouser*
[15:09:41] <Steffanx> mauser :)
[15:10:06] <RikusW> mauser makes me think of a rifle
[15:10:07] <OndraSter> attiny4 -- 6pin device
[15:10:09] <OndraSter> :o)
[15:10:11] <OndraSter> haha rifle
[15:10:34] <OndraSter> http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATTINY13A-SH/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvu0Nwh4cA1wROsDzPOL%2fIsdnCIIV7%2fpjk%3d
[15:10:35] <OndraSter> not bad!
[15:10:41] <RikusW> there is a rifle called that
[15:11:02] <jd_ce> I know atmels pretty stingy on sampling out their 8-bit line. how are they with their arm line?
[15:11:11] <OndraSter> attiny13a-ssu is 0.619€
[15:11:11] <RikusW> attiny 4 5 9 10 20 40 is all 6 pin avr's using TPI programming
[15:11:13] <OndraSter> for 1 piece
[15:17:17] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, which line of xmegas has both USB and EBI?
[15:17:36] <OndraSter> I thought it was a3u...
[15:17:39] <OndraSter> but nope
[15:19:39] <jd_ce> how bout a4u
[15:19:52] <OndraSter> not on mouser :)
[15:20:03] <jd_ce> heh
[15:24:52] <jd_ce> atmels website comes up with only the at32uc3 line
[15:26:16] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, none that are released
[15:26:25] <abcminiuser_> Oh wait, A1U is in samping now
[15:50:15] <OndraSter> hmm abcminiuser_
[15:50:32] <OndraSter> still not available on mouser
[15:50:40] <OndraSter> that sucks :(
[15:53:06] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, I remember seeing some A1/A2/A3/Bx/Dx etc series comparison... somewhere
[15:53:07] <OndraSter> in some pdf
[15:53:11] <OndraSter> or was it something else?
[15:59:55] <OndraSter> hmm are octal buffers the most you can get?
[15:59:58] <OndraSter> in one package
[16:00:05] <OndraSter> I was hoping for some 16bit buffers :P
[16:01:27] <OndraSter> hah they exist!
[16:05:29] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, updates posted
[16:07:12] <Tom_itx> OndraSter,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/Atmel_Parametric_Table.xls
[16:07:18] <OndraSter> thanks :)
[16:07:36] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, it is missing xmegas!
[16:07:51] <Tom_itx> damn sure is :(
[16:08:03] <Tom_itx> you can get that off atmel's site too
[16:08:24] <Tom_itx> not exactly sure how you get it in xls format
[16:11:17] <cyanide> is there any way to get read serial output off my atmega on my pc without usb?
[16:11:41] <OndraSter> and do you have RS232-TTL cable? :D
[16:12:00] <cyanide> can i do it without that?
[16:12:06] <OndraSter> well...
[16:12:11] <cyanide> what does the atmega168 output? ttl or rs232?
[16:12:15] <OndraSter> ttl ofc
[16:12:17] <cyanide> ok
[16:12:25] <cyanide> aaacck
[16:12:55] <cyanide> ill use an external usb-ttl
[16:12:57] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, I must say, xmegas look really good... just clock them at twice the speed in the next line :)
[16:13:08] <cyanide> what pins do i need, just rxd, txd and gnd?
[16:13:11] <OndraSter> yes
[16:13:18] <cyanide> abcminiuser_ works for atmel?
[16:13:25] <specing> yes
[16:14:01] <cyanide> and i wondered why he always had all the answers lol
[16:14:08] <OndraSter> lol
[16:14:16] <abcminiuser_> Holy crap
[16:14:26] <abcminiuser_> Just got my LUFA Mass Storage demo working on the XMEGA devices
[16:14:42] <OndraSter> :)
[16:14:49] <abcminiuser_> cyanide, yes, a new recruit
[16:14:52] <abcminiuser_> But not new to AVRs
[16:15:02] <cyanide> yeah, no shit
[16:15:03] <OndraSter> I was wondering one thing - when you create your own VID/PID (or use them), how do you write Windows drivers for it, considering that they have to be signed for x64?
[16:15:26] <RikusW> OndraSter: its painfull...
[16:15:46] <RikusW> rather use CDC or some existing class driver like HID
[16:15:53] <cyanide> do i need to connect 5v too? i just want to read serial output, don't want to power the board using that
[16:15:55] <abcminiuser_> Holy crap this DOES work
[16:15:55] <OndraSter> CDC?
[16:16:04] <OndraSter> no cyanide
[16:16:06] <abcminiuser_> Communication Device Class
[16:16:09] <OndraSter> ah
[16:16:12] <cyanide> yay, thanks OndraSter
[16:16:12] <abcminiuser_> Usually means Virtual Serial Port
[16:16:37] <OndraSter> yeah, I will probably end up at virtual serial port
[16:16:42] <OndraSter> easiest to work with
[16:16:55] <OndraSter> I suppose there are generic drivers
[16:17:18] <RikusW> libusb yes
[16:17:47] <RikusW> and winusb or something like that on windows, its similar to libusb
[16:18:05] <RikusW> writing a libusb app is actually fairly simple
[16:18:59] <OndraSter> ah cool, thanks :)
[16:19:18] <RikusW> and libusb works on windows too
[16:19:31] <OndraSter> and it works from C# as well lol
[16:19:44] <RikusW> nice, didn't know that
[16:21:21] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, is the xmega code solid?
[16:21:50] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, christ no
[16:22:02] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, since you use ubuntu maybe you can answer this.. how do i get the saleae app as an icon on the desktop with the proper icon?
[16:22:05] <abcminiuser_> I'm neatly done making something that kinda works however
[16:22:17] <abcminiuser_> Once that's pushed out I'm gutting the library and pretty much starting again
[16:22:18] <Tom_itx> :)
[16:22:30] <Tom_itx> how many times have you started over?
[16:22:40] <abcminiuser_> Many, but I dumped all my other attempts
[16:22:49] <abcminiuser_> But it has to be done, looking at this monstrosity
[16:22:53] <abcminiuser_> ^ Hrm, not sure
[16:23:12] <Tom_itx> i can get it there but not with their icon
[16:23:36] <Tom_itx> i was just messin around last night and installed it there
[16:24:52] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, does Atmel give away VID PID combo for their USB chips?
[16:25:33] <RikusW> there comes a vid/pid with their CDC demo
[16:25:35] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, there's a FAQ on the web
[16:25:39] <OndraSter> ok
[16:25:52] <OndraSter> http://support.atmel.com/bin/customer.exe?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=220
[16:25:53] <abcminiuser_> http://support.atmel.com/bin/customer.exe?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=220
[16:25:54] <abcminiuser_> Yes
[16:25:58] <OndraSter> thanks
[16:26:13] <RikusW> or maybe just pick a random vid/pid :-P
[16:26:45] <OndraSter> :D
[16:26:47] <OndraSter> I wouldn't do that
[16:26:54] <OndraSter> you might get installed random device driver
[16:27:14] <RikusW> heh
[16:27:25] <cyanide> do most usb-ttl converters have pullups or is it recommended that i put it on my board?
[16:28:01] <Kevin`> cyanide: why would it need a pullup?
[16:28:06] <Kevin`> cyanide: it's push-pull
[16:28:25] <Kevin`> unless you are interfacing it to something strange
[16:30:00] <cyanide> dont you need a pullup resistor on tx?
[16:30:31] <Kevin`> cyanide: what for?
[16:31:04] <Kevin`> you might want a weak one on rx if the other device will be hi-Z in normal conditions sometimes
[16:33:37] <specing> I heard of a company that provides USB PIDs for cheap (like $5 or sth)
[16:33:52] <OndraSter> that's illegal
[16:33:55] <OndraSter> :P
[16:33:56] <specing> why?
[16:34:04] <OndraSter> because usb.org doesn't allow that
[16:34:11] <specing> What would you do with 65536 PIDs?
[16:34:41] <specing> the full licence costs $2000 / y
[16:34:43] <Tom_itx> sell em?
[16:34:45] <Kevin`> OndraSter: it's not illegal
[16:34:49] <specing> for VIDs
[16:34:55] <specing> or something like that
[16:35:47] <Kevin`> OndraSter: usb.org won't like the company because they want more money, but it's just a number from your position
[16:35:57] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:35:58] <OndraSter> ok
[16:37:01] <OndraSter> guys, I remember that somebody here talked about those awful PL-2303 chips
[16:37:04] <OndraSter> that cost 0.00nothing
[16:37:09] <OndraSter> from ebay :)
[16:37:12] <nevyn> the licence thing is also ridiculous. it's noy like USB.org canrissue them
[16:37:47] <cyanide> lol pl2303
[16:37:54] <OndraSter> the price is great
[16:37:57] <OndraSter> compared to FT232
[16:38:17] <specing> I have a pl2303
[16:38:23] <specing> works okay
[16:38:24] <cyanide> yeah, cow shit is inexpensive too, compared to ft232
[16:38:39] <OndraSter> I can't find them on mouser... only on ebay LOL
[16:38:47] <cyanide> and pl2303 is probably less useful than cow shit
[16:38:52] <Kevin`> it works.
[16:38:54] <OndraSter> lol why?
[16:38:57] <specing> cyanide: and ft232 is overpriced bull-shit ;P
[16:38:59] <OndraSter> it is USB to UART bridge
[16:39:07] <cyanide> ive never had a working pl2303 chip
[16:39:11] <OndraSter> 5pcs of PL-2303 for $7.25 on ebay
[16:39:15] <OndraSter> I've used few
[16:39:19] <OndraSter> from ebay!
[16:39:26] <cyanide> ive bought like 10-15 usb serial converters
[16:39:27] <OndraSter> on finished modules though
[16:39:34] <OndraSter> not single pieces
[16:39:34] <cyanide> ebay, dealextreme, etc
[16:39:38] <cyanide> NONE of them work
[16:39:39] <cyanide> ever
[16:39:41] <OndraSter> lol
[16:40:20] <OndraSter> you can get them for less than a buck for 10 pieces :o)
[16:40:23] <cyanide> i had to buy a nice expensive converter which was used for some other purpose just to get serial to usb
[16:40:32] <cyanide> it had ft232 and it works till today
[16:40:45] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-PL-2303HX-SSOP-28-PL2303HX-PL2303-USB-to-RS-232-/290677068544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43adb41300
[16:42:06] <Kevin`> cyanide: that's because you bought them from dealextreme. the original non-clone ones worked fine
[16:42:13] <OndraSter> for my purpose is cheaper to use this + xmega32d4 than xmega32a4u
[16:42:23] <OndraSter> I don't need 7 SPIs and 5 UARTs :P
[16:44:05] <cyanide> Kevin`, not just dealextreme
[16:44:19] <cyanide> im talking local, ebay, dealextreme
[16:44:25] <cyanide> about 4-5 local shops
[16:44:31] <cyanide> 2-3 ebay sellers
[16:44:33] <OndraSter> duh
[16:45:03] <cyanide> ive taken out the max232 chips from those converters lol
[16:48:00] <OndraSter> I am pissed on DX
[16:48:00] <OndraSter> http://dx.com/lodestar-soldering-paste-50g-4711
[16:48:04] <OndraSter> "Delivery: Typically ships in 4 to 7 days"
[16:48:08] <OndraSter> more like 4 to 7 weeks
[16:49:14] <cyanide> "ships":
[16:49:19] <cyanide> doesn't mean delivered
[16:49:24] <OndraSter> but they haven't shipped it yet
[16:49:27] <cyanide> oh
[16:49:45] <OndraSter> order date: 1.2.2012 15:21:01
[16:49:49] <cyanide> wow
[16:49:54] <OndraSter> they shipped only one item from the order
[16:49:59] <OndraSter> (I ordered this + one more thing)
[16:50:11] <cyanide> i just bought like 2 x 250gm jars. so i dont run out of it anytime soon
[16:50:19] <OndraSter> of soldering paste?
[16:51:31] <cyanide> yes
[16:51:38] <OndraSter> dude, 250g?
[16:51:40] <OndraSter> twice?
[16:51:44] <OndraSter> for how much :o)
[16:51:52] <OndraSter> that is like... for the eternity!
[16:52:09] <cyanide> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mechanic-advanced-quality-soldering-solder-flux-paste-250g.html
[16:52:25] <OndraSter> oh
[16:52:37] <OndraSter> inform us about the quality of it :)
[16:52:50] <cyanide> i have the 50gm jar
[16:52:58] <cyanide> some problem with it?
[16:53:18] <OndraSter> I am asking you about the quality :)
[16:53:27] <OndraSter> I have good reference only on the lodestar by Tom_itx
[16:53:53] <cyanide> its nice. i dont have much experience with all this so someone else might know something i don't.
[16:53:56] <cyanide> but it works nicely for me
[17:01:06] <DanFrederiksen> I forget, does an atmega8 have a DA? or just the pwm
[17:02:09] <Kevin`> DanFrederiksen: i've only seen dac on the xmega devices, although some of the smaller chips have 64mhz pwm
[17:03:13] <OndraSter> yep, DAC only on xmegas
[17:13:10] <DanFrederiksen> spanks
[17:42:08] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, inflex and i both use that
[17:42:29] <OndraSter> even two!
[17:43:07] <OndraSter> I was wondering... if I wanted to push faster data streams from xmega through USB... more than 12Mbps
[17:43:23] <OndraSter> what chip should I use? Probably go ahead and use some ARM with USB2.0 480Mbit :P
[17:43:32] <OndraSter> instead xmega+external chip
[17:43:51] <Kevin`> OndraSter: that would be sensible.
[17:44:20] <OndraSter> but you need some ARM JTAG to be able to do OCD and what not...
[17:44:22] <OndraSter> damn
[17:44:22] <Kevin`> although you might be somewhat ok with a usb controller attached to the external memory interface
[17:44:43] <OndraSter> EBI xmegas are not as cheap as the ones with USB/without USB even
[17:44:45] <Kevin`> there's an arm jtag project that uses usb avr chips
[17:45:06] <Kevin`> although it's more common to just use those ftdi usb-spi things
[17:46:21] <OndraSter> FT2232H sounds cool
[17:46:24] <OndraSter> but is pain to route
[17:46:28] <OndraSter> and place
[17:46:29] <OndraSter> 64 pins
[17:48:37] <OndraSter> lol you could make full logic analyzer from the FT2232H itself
[17:48:43] <OndraSter> it has 4x8bit ports
[17:49:03] <OndraSter> ... but can't work as raw IOs
[17:53:45] <OndraSter> MCP2210 looks good... but Full Speed only again
[17:53:53] <OndraSter> it is cheap enough
[17:54:00] <OndraSter> 1.75€ per 1pcs
[17:54:07] <OndraSter> and it is made by Microchip
[18:09:54] <OndraSter> duh, the MCP2210 is actually master
[18:09:56] <OndraSter> rather slave
[18:17:57] <cyanide> i redesigned one of my older boards lol
[18:18:10] <cyanide> from 115 vias to 10
[18:18:16] <cyanide> fuck eagle autorouter
[18:18:18] <OndraSter> 3Mbaud on serial means effectively 3Mbit or 3MByte?
[18:18:21] <OndraSter> I presume that 3Mbit
[18:18:27] <OndraSter> lol eagle autorouter
[18:23:37] <jd_ce> eagles autorouter is shit. but vias arent -that- bad
[18:25:11] <jd_ce> ive used professional dev boards with vias on the usb lines... which is supposed to be a no-no
[18:25:42] <OndraSter> duh
[18:25:44] <OndraSter> oh well, I am off
[18:25:45] <OndraSter> bb
[18:26:25] <mrfrenzy> I've seen external usb drives with vias on the usb
[20:25:43] <nn7> ok, I've been trying to chase down this bug and I am officially stumped
[20:26:23] <nn7> I've isolated a test case, here it is:
http://pastebin.com/NJMu19Tk
[20:26:43] <nn7> It repeatedly goes into BADISR instead of TIMER0_COMPB_vect
[20:28:36] <nn7> I can't figure out why
[20:31:27] <Tom_itx> what chip?
[20:33:41] <Tom_itx> nn7, what chip are you using?
[20:33:44] <nn7> atmega324p
[20:35:32] <Sgt_Lemming> so... this weekends UAV flying was a bit eventful
http://i.imgur.com/AJkPj.jpg
[20:35:34] <Tom_itx> it isn't reliant on A is it?
[20:35:35] <nn7> I've verified that commenting out TIMSK0 |= (OCIE0B); stops calling badisr
[20:36:56] <nn7> well initially I wanted to use OCIE0A but it seems that CTC mode doesn't cause that interrupt to fire
[20:38:25] <nn7> if I uncomment the TIMSK line but set OCR0B > ORC0A, I still fire BADISR
[20:39:29] <Tom_itx> does it matter that the clock divider is after sei() ?
[20:40:04] <nn7> ok, this is interesting, if I replace TIMSK0 |= (1<<OCIE0B); with TIMSK |= (1<<2); it doesn't fire (BADISR)
[20:40:56] <Tom_itx> is OCIE0B defined somewhere?
[20:41:09] <Tom_itx> it should be in the header file but is it?
[20:41:20] <nn7> the datasheet says OCIE0B should be 2
[20:41:27] <nn7> umm...
[20:41:49] <Tom_itx> it is
[20:42:01] <Tom_itx> #define TIMSK0 _SFR_MEM8(0x6E)
[20:42:01] <Tom_itx> #define TOIE0 0
[20:42:01] <Tom_itx> #define OCIE0A 1
[20:42:01] <Tom_itx> #define OCIE0B 2
[20:43:17] <nn7> odd
[20:43:30] <Tom_itx> is the actual header file 324p or 324pa
[20:44:22] <nn7> I only see 324pa in the directory
[20:44:30] <Tom_itx> i have a 324 and a 324pa
[20:44:38] <Tom_itx> try one of those maybe
[20:44:48] <nn7> the 324 appears to be just fuses
[20:45:00] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd try the pa and see what happens
[20:45:31] <Tom_itx> just change that in your makefile
[20:45:52] <nn7> I'm trying to figure out how
[20:45:55] <nn7> I use avr studio
[20:46:04] <Tom_itx> just name the part pa instead of p
[20:46:18] <Tom_itx> which studio?
[20:46:23] <nn7> 5
[20:46:35] <Tom_itx> i don't have 5 on this pc
[20:46:36] <nn7> I found it
[20:47:40] <nn7> set it to pa, I can see pa in the build output, it has the same problem
[20:47:51] <Tom_itx> i dunno then
[20:47:59] <Tom_itx> with no target to test with
[20:48:41] <nn7> I tried this: uart_putc_hex(OCIE0B,0);
[20:48:45] <nn7> and it gave me "02"
[20:50:44] <Tom_itx> umm
[20:51:01] <nn7> that should be 4, right?
[20:51:08] <nn7> no, that's 2
[20:51:18] <Tom_itx> should this TIMSK0 |= (OCIE0B); be TIMSK0 |= (1<<OCIE0B); ??
[20:51:18] <nn7> yeah, it should be 2
[20:51:41] <nn7> GAH!
[20:51:49] <nn7> thank you very much
[20:51:54] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:53:23] <Tom_itx> your example ^^ up there didn't match your code
[20:53:31] <Tom_itx> i didn't notice it the first time
[20:55:03] <nn7> ahhh..
[20:55:05] <nn7> yup
[20:55:08] <nn7> thanks for the catch
[20:55:14] <nn7> I could have been poking at this for hours
[20:55:20] <Tom_itx> np
[20:56:42] <Tom_itx> i went for the header file first because i've found inconsistencies in the interrupt names sometimes
[21:24:44] <nn7> hmm... I have a while loop that keeps putting this thing to sleep and waking it up on INT0 rising edge
[21:24:58] <nn7> pretty regularly it will go to sleep and not wake up on INT0
[21:25:37] <Tom_itx> i haven't messed with sleep
