Back
[00:21:13] <atommann> CapnKernel: I have fixed my USBtinyISP programmer.
[00:21:41] <atommann> it was the ceramic resonator.
[00:21:53] <atommann> I replace a new one, and it works well now.
[00:21:55] <CapnKernel> Really? It failed?
[00:22:01] <CapnKernel> Wow
[00:22:17] <CapnKernel> How did you find it was the resonator?
[00:22:21] <atommann> USB protocol need strict timing
[00:22:45] <CapnKernel> Strange
[00:22:50] <atommann> if the tolerance is big, the data transfering will not be stable.
[00:23:03] <atommann> really
[00:23:04] <CapnKernel> Well, great you found it!
[00:23:23] <atommann> I use the replacement method to find the problem.
[00:23:37] <CapnKernel> cyanide got his package!
[00:23:51] <CapnKernel> Now to find out how I screwed up.
[00:25:45] <cyanide> :)
[00:25:53] <cyanide> got it about 30 mins back
[00:25:55] <cyanide> good stuff :)
[00:26:06] <cyanide> dhl hadn't updated lol
[00:28:51] <cyanide> nicr read
http://www.edn.com/article/472709-Overengineering_How_much_is_too_much_.php
[00:29:08] <cyanide> typical germans lol
[00:38:01] <CapnKernel> Let me guess, that's either for a ship, or there are munchkins in the mazda factory
[00:39:13] <cyanide> yea a ship
[00:39:34] <cyanide> the scale makes me laugh lol
[00:40:03] <cyanide> and yet these guys are probably as anal as i am about having the dimensions precise to a 4th decimal
[00:40:10] <brentbxr^t> lol avrs
[00:40:41] <brentbxr^t> any of you guys aware of the
[00:40:55] <cyanide> the what?
[00:40:58] <brentbxr^t> avr transitor tester project
[00:41:05] <brentbxr^t> u cant utube it
[00:41:06] <cyanide> not me
[00:41:45] <brentbxr^t> ah its pretty sweet; it alows you to test components suc as transistors; resistors; caps; fets; and a handfull more
[00:41:48] <brentbxr^t> anyways
[00:42:03] <brentbxr^t> I designed myself a PCB for it; and have ~10 left
[00:42:06] <cyanide> nice
[00:42:11] <brentbxr^t> if anyone is interested
[00:42:19] <cyanide> pic?
[00:42:19] <brentbxr^t> ill send them a free one with docs
[00:42:40] <brentbxr^t> the best part is it only takes discreet parts ( besides an atmega328 or atmega168
[00:42:43] <brentbxr^t> yeah one sec
[00:43:05] <brentbxr^t> well ill one up that
[00:43:11] <brentbxr^t> i have a utue vid
[00:43:17] <brentbxr^t> its not mine but from my pcb
[00:43:21] <CapnKernel> brentbxr^ and I talked about this three weeks ago
[00:43:28] <brentbxr^t> as in not my account
[00:43:34] <brentbxr^t> and?
[00:43:42] <brentbxr^t> it took that long to get the pcbs
[00:43:58] <brentbxr^t> and your comment means waht to me?
[00:44:36] <brentbxr^t> about 3 weeks ago
[00:44:44] <brentbxr^t> = the time i decided to take it on
[00:45:13] <brentbxr^t> and i doubt 'we' talked about it. I may have mentioned it to you. but 'we' didnt discuess anything
[00:45:20] <brentbxr^t> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF8j4wzCECY&context=C4cd019eADvjVQa1PpcFN-qo3Jq2Cqe2DmpFnp289BLNL8vJb-CTI=
[00:45:28] <CapnKernel> You showed me the bill of materials. Here:
http://pastebin.com/KAEnEg89
[00:45:32] <brentbxr^t> if cyanide is interested
[00:46:04] <brentbxr^t> yeah; thats right
[00:46:16] <brentbxr^t> im just saying; within that time
[00:46:20] <brentbxr^t> I designed the PCB
[00:46:26] <brentbxr^t> it arrived
[00:46:30] <brentbxr^t> like 4 days ago
[00:46:36] <brentbxr^t> SEEED takes forever :3
[00:46:36] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: does that measure inductors?
[00:46:41] <brentbxr^t> no
[00:46:50] <brentbxr^t> not yet anyways
[00:46:56] <brentbxr^t> thats a good idea tho
[00:47:11] <brentbxr^t> if possible; im not real up on inductors
[00:47:52] <brentbxr^t> capn
[00:47:56] <CapnKernel> ?
[00:48:01] <brentbxr^t> what do you use for PCBs?
[00:48:06] <brentbxr^t> and where u located?
[00:48:23] <CapnKernel> I live in Shenzhen, China, and I have a service to provide PCBs.
[00:48:33] <brentbxr^t> Ah
[00:48:44] <brentbxr^t> the itead/seeed factory.. thats sweet
[00:49:01] <CapnKernel> Several of the folks here have ordered boards through me, and their posting is taking a while too
[00:49:24] <brentbxr^t> thats not your fault
[00:49:27] <brentbxr^t> thats chinapost
[00:49:35] <brentbxr^t> those guys take there sweet time
[00:49:39] <CapnKernel> Mine go HK post, but speed-wise they're not so different
[00:49:40] <brentbxr^t> im sure there aware of that tho
[00:49:49] <brentbxr^t> yeah
[00:50:18] <brentbxr^t> im sure everytone who pays more for your service understand that thought. i mean if they doint
[00:50:25] <CapnKernel> I do free shipping, but it's what you choose if you don't mind waiting because you're on a budget, and you've got a pipeline of projects anyway
[00:50:31] <brentbxr^t> then there just dumb :D
[00:50:35] <CapnKernel> DHL for USD20.
[00:50:57] <desaster> i always have something in the post from china, free shipping is sweet if you're not in a hurry :)
[00:50:58] <brentbxr^t> thats about right
[00:51:10] <CapnKernel> My home is Melbourne Australia, and I was very happy with the free shipping, did it all the time. I have a pipeline of five or six projects so I don't mind waiting
[00:51:24] <CapnKernel> By the time my pipeline clears, the package turns up :-)
[00:51:26] <brentbxr^t> lol deSASTER i nkow what you mean. I have ebay stuff coming EVERYday it seems
[00:52:50] <brentbxr^t> infact tomorrow comes my (According to usps) pickit2 clone, 3 LCDs from enay, 1 10cc flux from AMTECH; and a sample enclosure
[00:52:57] <brentbxr^t> big day tmorrow :D
[00:53:24] <Kevin`> why a pickit CLONE? the originals aren't that bad
[00:53:38] <desaster> it's like santa claus paying regular visits
[00:53:39] <brentbxr^t> i got one of the enclosures today; the battery compartment takes up 90% of the room
[00:53:47] <Kevin`> unless it had some feature the original doesn't
[00:54:04] <brentbxr^t> kevin` whats the original price
[00:54:14] <brentbxr^t> for a pickit2 mind you not 3
[00:54:16] <brentbxr^t> i dont want a 3
[00:54:18] <brentbxr^t> there bad
[00:54:22] <Kevin`> something like $40
[00:54:26] <brentbxr^t> lol
[00:54:29] <brentbxr^t> exactly
[00:54:40] <brentbxr^t> i paid 19 for the clone
[00:54:49] <brentbxr^t> and i dont use PICS very often
[00:54:55] <brentbxr^t> so its more then appeasing to me
[00:55:06] <brentbxr^t> infact rare
[00:55:19] <brentbxr^t> im more into FPGAs then anything
[00:55:46] <brentbxr^t> although i own more AVR programers then i need., thats forsure
[00:55:58] <brentbxr^t> first pic programmer
[00:56:06] <Kevin`> fpgas are even more hobbiest-unfriendly than microchip
[00:56:22] <brentbxr^t> oh no doubt; they are forsure not made for hobbiest
[00:56:38] <brentbxr^t> its tough to get started
[00:56:41] <brentbxr^t> i will admit
[00:56:45] <brentbxr^t> but once you do
[00:56:52] <brentbxr^t> youll never wanna go back
[00:57:04] <brentbxr^t> its just so powerfull its crazy
[00:57:27] <CapnKernel> Software defined hardware :-)
[00:57:33] <brentbxr^t> but i stick around in the 16/8 world because its not logical
[00:57:39] <brentbxr^t> for public designs
[00:57:46] <Kevin`> do you have any recommendations for getting started? most of the dev boards are asspull-priced or not capable enough for a reasonable project that would need an fpga
[00:57:49] <brentbxr^t> to use a 20$ fpga
[00:57:55] <brentbxr^t> over a 1.4& mcu
[00:57:58] <brentbxr^t> $*
[00:58:12] <brentbxr^t> kevin1
[00:58:13] <brentbxr^t> i do
[00:58:23] <brentbxr^t> Are you into aruino?
[00:58:39] <brentbxr^t> ardunio
[00:58:46] <brentbxr^t> how ever that shits spelt
[00:58:51] <brentbxr^t> i hate it myself
[00:58:54] <Kevin`> i've never actually tried arduino, although I know enough about it. I just started with the raw chips and gcc
[00:59:05] <CapnKernel> brentbxr^t: We don't talk about the "A" board here.
[00:59:07] <brentbxr^t> well it doesnt matter really; there is a FPGA dev board
[00:59:26] <brentbxr^t> that the publisher
[00:59:38] <CapnKernel> Because to do so disturbs our elitist clique :-)
[00:59:40] <brentbxr^t> actually made a arduino softcore for it
[00:59:51] <brentbxr^t> but better yet; he has an AVR8 core too
[00:59:57] <Kevin`> shouldn't be too hard, there are public avr softcores
[00:59:58] <brentbxr^t> basiclly allowing you top use AVR code
[01:00:00] <brentbxr^t> on an FPGA
[01:00:28] <Kevin`> of course, if the project would work entirely in the softcore, you are wasting the hardware =p
[01:00:31] <brentbxr^t> but forsure and hands down (i dont own one but i wish I had started on it) I would get a Pailipino
[01:00:43] <brentbxr^t> kevin yes
[01:00:48] <brentbxr^t> exacly
[01:00:54] <brentbxr^t> your not meant to stick with it
[01:01:01] <brentbxr^t> but yheah
[01:01:03] <brentbxr^t> look up
[01:01:06] <brentbxr^t> palipino
[01:01:10] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: google doesn't find that, did you spell it right?
[01:01:16] <brentbxr^t> papilio <-- thats it
[01:01:31] <brentbxr^t> gadgetfactory.net or somthing
[01:01:51] <Kevin`> that actually looks.. reasoanble..
[01:01:58] <brentbxr^t> that is by far the easiest to learn FPGA
[01:02:09] <brentbxr^t> i mean he takes care of the loading; also the bitstream on startup
[01:02:17] <brentbxr^t> he has a .bit to .svf autoload
[01:02:22] <brentbxr^t> all the really lame stuff
[01:02:25] <brentbxr^t> he takes care of
[01:02:32] <brentbxr^t> all you have to do iws code and enjoy
[01:02:37] <brentbxr^t> its really quite major
[01:02:50] <cyanide> http://papilio.cc/
[01:02:54] <brentbxr^t> all that bullshit took me months to learn this guy made apps for
[01:02:59] <cyanide> that is just retarded
[01:03:14] <brentbxr^t> how so
[01:03:25] <brentbxr^t> thats the papilio board im talking about
[01:03:26] <cyanide> you dont make things THIS accessible :)
[01:03:29] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: it has the normal jtag interface to the chip easily usable right?
[01:03:40] <brentbxr^t> yes via ftdi
[01:03:44] <Kevin`> erm
[01:03:46] <brentbxr^t> no external programmer needed
[01:03:54] <brentbxr^t> oh
[01:04:00] <brentbxr^t> you mran via header?
[01:04:01] <Kevin`> one of the usb 2.0 synchronous offload ftdi things, or usb-rs232 ftdi
[01:04:10] <brentbxr^t> I have no idea
[01:04:14] <brentbxr^t> i dontknow it that well
[01:04:21] <brentbxr^t> like i said i dont own one
[01:04:32] <cyanide> ive only read about fpgas and don't understand them, but they seem to be incredibly complex
[01:04:33] <brentbxr^t> i own other more expensive not workth it boards
[01:04:47] <brentbxr^t> then why you hating on the papilio?
[01:04:55] <brentbxr^t> :D
[01:04:57] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: also, does the chip have direct access to the usb port?
[01:05:03] <brentbxr^t> oh they are. i wont lie
[01:05:07] <brentbxr^t> they SUCK
[01:05:09] <brentbxr^t> to learn
[01:05:17] <brentbxr^t> i dont know kevin
[01:05:21] <brentbxr^t> i doubt it
[01:05:27] <brentbxr^t> as the FTDI chip is in the way
[01:05:38] <cyanide> <brentbxr^t> then why you hating on the papilio?
[01:05:43] <brentbxr^t> the FTDI allows JTAG programming of the FPGA
[01:05:49] <brentbxr^t> and i think SPI of the FLASH mem
[01:05:53] <brentbxr^t> which is required on startup
[01:05:54] <Kevin`> yeah it looks like it. although the ftdi chip is apparently being used for jtag like a normal external adapter
[01:05:58] <brentbxr^t> if you want your code to stick
[01:06:06] <cyanide> not hating on the papilio. just feel it'll hold your hands way more than even an arduino
[01:06:08] <brentbxr^t> of course
[01:06:21] <brentbxr^t> no devboard would be usfull without an FTDI to jtag
[01:06:31] <brentbxr^t> unless you want to buy your own 100$ programmer
[01:06:36] <brentbxr^t> but thats not stoppoinmg yu
[01:06:42] <brentbxr^t> from making your own USB connections
[01:06:51] <brentbxr^t> its not like a MCU where PIN = USB
[01:06:54] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: you can get an ftdi jtag adapter like that for $30 that will work with almost any device that uses jtag
[01:07:01] <brentbxr^t> all pins are defined what you wantthe,m to be
[01:07:28] <brentbxr^t> that doesnt matter; like i said. its not like hes taking up the only USB ports on the FPGA
[01:07:33] <Kevin`> I don't have one though, although I have devices that would technically work, they would be a bit slow
[01:07:34] <brentbxr^t> theres no such thing
[01:07:56] <brentbxr^t> FPGAs do not have USB support
[01:08:00] <brentbxr^t> they dont have UART
[01:08:03] <brentbxr^t> they dont have SPI
[01:08:08] <brentbxr^t> they dont have anything
[01:08:24] <brentbxr^t> that usb to jtag is for your convinence so you dont haveto buy a programmer
[01:08:26] <brentbxr^t> simple as that
[01:08:30] <brentbxr^t> if you want your own USB port
[01:08:35] <brentbxr^t> then do it
[01:08:45] <brentbxr^t> connect pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 whatever to whatever
[01:08:49] <cyanide> funny though
[01:08:50] <Kevin`> i've seen ones with stuff like pci-e or various other annoying lvds interfaces as built in hardware
[01:09:01] <cyanide> the papilio manufacturer has a local page (india)
[01:09:03] <Kevin`> I doubt the dev boards that have those are as reasonably priced though
[01:09:03] <cyanide> nice
[01:09:07] <brentbxr^t> i doubt that
[01:09:24] <brentbxr^t> lol cyanide
[01:09:29] <brentbxr^t> i doubt that too
[01:09:32] <brentbxr^t> the owners name is
[01:09:33] <cyanide> although 20 usd more
[01:09:35] <brentbxr^t> 'jack gasset'
[01:09:38] <brentbxr^t> or somthing
[01:09:42] <cyanide> lol wtf
[01:09:47] <brentbxr^t> hes from USB
[01:09:48] <brentbxr^t> USA
[01:09:52] <cyanide> usb hahaha
[01:09:53] <brentbxr^t> see 'seedstudio.com'
[01:09:56] <brentbxr^t> under
[01:09:57] <cyanide> ok
[01:10:00] <brentbxr^t> corporate
[01:10:02] <brentbxr^t> desingers
[01:10:03] <brentbxr^t> or somthing
[01:10:06] <brentbxr^t> hes under there
[01:10:10] <brentbxr^t> it has a small bio
[01:10:10] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: oh, can you recommend any other stuff? it's nice to have a wide range of things to choose from
[01:10:13] <cyanide> holy
[01:10:14] <Kevin`> although this looks usable
[01:10:20] <cyanide> they have a store close to my city
[01:10:21] <brentbxr^t> Kevin
[01:10:24] <cyanide> http://indiashop.gadgetfactory.net/index.php?main_page=page&id=20
[01:10:28] <brentbxr^t> I do have prolly the cheapest
[01:10:35] <Kevin`> seed studio is a chinese company though, iirc
[01:10:37] <CapnKernel> brentbxr^t: Can you talk in sentences please?
[01:10:41] <brentbxr^t> fpga fully operational board
[01:10:45] <CapnKernel> Seeed is in the same city as me
[01:10:48] <brentbxr^t> devbaird
[01:10:59] <brentbxr^t> lol
[01:11:00] <brentbxr^t> fuck
[01:11:01] <brentbxr^t> you
[01:11:03] <brentbxr^t> capn
[01:11:05] <brentbxr^t> crunch
[01:11:09] <CapnKernel> Charming
[01:11:13] <brentbxr^t> hahah
[01:11:18] <Kevin`> brentbxr^t: devbaird?
[01:11:20] <cyanide> lmao
[01:11:31] <brentbxr^t> kevin, i meant dev board
[01:12:10] <brentbxr^t> its a FPGA developement board, the 3 levels of voltage are taken care of; there is RAM so you dont need to worry about that, onboard EEPROM for startup; an FTDI for UART; and more
[01:12:22] <brentbxr^t> its all you need to run an FPGA on a small board @cost
[01:12:36] <brentbxr^t> @ cost of the board and parts (already soldered)
[01:12:41] <brentbxr^t> i bought one from him
[01:12:45] <brentbxr^t> I bought the 500k gates
[01:12:48] <brentbxr^t> he has one left
[01:12:53] <brentbxr^t> which is 250k gate
[01:13:01] <brentbxr^t> which is still way more then a starter needs
[01:13:03] <brentbxr^t> WAY more
[01:13:14] <brentbxr^t> like a attiny13 compaired to a atmega32
[01:13:29] <brentbxr^t> no that came out wrong
[01:13:47] <Kevin`> doesn't an attiny13 run at higher speed actually? it's one of the newer parts, I suspect
[01:13:51] <Kevin`> ;p
[01:13:52] <brentbxr^t> the 250k / 500k is just that; double everything. but what i mean is. the atmega8 / atmega16
[01:14:23] <brentbxr^t> i woudlmt know. i havnt touched attinys
[01:14:25] <brentbxr^t> in years
[01:14:53] <brentbxr^t> capn i know seed is wher eyou live
[01:14:56] <Kevin`> why not? having a little 8 pin chip that can handle any random task you want done is great
[01:14:58] <brentbxr^t> you use the same factory
[01:15:02] <brentbxr^t> as your 'service'
[01:15:32] <brentbxr^t> kevin' agreed, I just havnt done anything that requires that.
[01:15:34] <brentbxr^t> I own attinys
[01:15:38] <brentbxr^t> and atmegas
[01:15:44] <brentbxr^t> i just havnebt need to take them out
[01:15:49] <brentbxr^t> in forvver
[01:15:51] <brentbxr^t> forever
[01:15:55] <brentbxr^t> sorry i cant type atm
[01:16:29] <brentbxr^t> but yeah kevin
[01:16:32] <brentbxr^t> if your forreal
[01:16:56] <brentbxr^t> and want a very simple; everything you need to run an FPGA board at cost of the parts + pcb
[01:17:01] <brentbxr^t> i can let you talk to the desinger
[01:17:09] <brentbxr^t> you cannot find a cheaper board
[01:17:12] <brentbxr^t> with the same spec
[01:17:15] <Kevin`> sure
[01:17:19] <brentbxr^t> but i warn you now
[01:17:27] <brentbxr^t> it is NOT newbie friendly
[01:17:43] <brentbxr^t> it does NOT connect to a breadbiard wtithout external parts
[01:17:57] <brentbxr^t> it does not even have a standard JTAG header port
[01:18:12] <brentbxr^t> it takes a 20 FL i think .20mm
[01:18:25] <brentbxr^t> which you will have to special order
[01:18:28] <Kevin`> if it requires me to solder on a fine pitch smd flex cable connector for io, i'd probably rather not
[01:18:31] <brentbxr^t> just to take the pins out of the board
[01:18:39] <brentbxr^t> no solderin
[01:18:42] <Kevin`> I HATE those more than they deserve
[01:18:45] <brentbxr^t> its already soldered
[01:18:46] <Kevin`> (flex cables)
[01:18:50] <brentbxr^t> yes
[01:18:56] <brentbxr^t> lol it has a connector
[01:19:00] <brentbxr^t> but on the other end
[01:19:05] <brentbxr^t> you may have to solder
[01:19:07] <Kevin`> ..a flex cable connector?
[01:19:08] <brentbxr^t> like i said
[01:19:13] <brentbxr^t> its not the best beginner
[01:19:14] <brentbxr^t> yes'
[01:19:20] <brentbxr^t> 20
[01:19:27] <brentbxr^t> 20 pin .2mm
[01:19:30] <brentbxr^t> lol
[01:19:38] <brentbxr^t> its NOT good for beginners
[01:19:40] <brentbxr^t> beigne
[01:19:40] <brentbxr^t> r
[01:19:42] <brentbxr^t> fuickit
[01:19:47] <Kevin`> those aren't good for anybody :D
[01:19:54] <brentbxr^t> lol
[01:20:00] <brentbxr^t> i like um :3
[01:20:06] <Kevin`> the soldering wouldn't be a problem btw, at least with the actual connector
[01:20:11] <Kevin`> but, the cables, ugh
[01:20:19] <brentbxr^t> yeah I hear ya
[01:20:24] <brentbxr^t> want to see a pic?
[01:20:27] <Kevin`> ok
[01:20:33] <brentbxr^t> let me look it up
[01:20:43] <brentbxr^t> i know he sent me a pic of mine before i bought it
[01:23:46] <brentbxr^t> http://i.imgur.com/HeLxu.jpg
[01:23:54] <brentbxr^t> i own the bottom right
[01:24:02] <brentbxr^t> the bottm left is 250k
[01:24:40] <brentbxr^t> top right actually has trace issues
[01:24:49] <brentbxr^t> but on purpose
[01:24:55] <brentbxr^t> i cant think of the word
[01:25:05] <brentbxr^t> its for testing certain conditions
[01:25:15] <Kevin`> oh, I saw the guy who made those, I think. who was it
[01:25:20] <brentbxr^t> use an FPGA to develop more speed then any PIC or AVR can
[01:25:29] <brentbxr^t> azonberd
[01:25:37] <brentbxr^t> azoznber
[01:25:37] <brentbxr^t> g
[01:25:39] <brentbxr^t> or somthing
[01:25:46] <brentbxr^t> yeah hes great at FPGA design
[01:26:04] <brentbxr^t> azonzberg @ ##electronics
[01:26:08] <brentbxr^t> on this server
[01:26:12] <Kevin`> I should probably lookg back through my logs, because he said he'd give me one at some point
[01:26:45] <brentbxr^t> no i meant azonenberg
[01:26:54] <brentbxr^t> dude
[01:26:57] <brentbxr^t> do it
[01:26:59] <Kevin`> you are worse at names than I am
[01:27:00] <Kevin`> :o
[01:27:19] <brentbxr^t> thats ~45$ of just components
[01:27:22] <brentbxr^t> let alone the PCB
[01:27:48] <brentbxr^t> the FPGA itself cost almost 20
[01:28:04] <brentbxr^t> thats why hobbiests dont use fpgas btw
[01:28:15] <brentbxr^t> otherwise avr and pics woudnt excist
[01:28:22] <brentbxr^t> there snot comparative
[01:28:42] <Kevin`> bah, most people pay >=$20 for an arduino board and use it like a chip
[01:28:54] <brentbxr^t> ?
[01:29:06] <brentbxr^t> an arduino is an atmega
[01:29:10] <brentbxr^t> that <> fpga
[01:29:17] <brentbxr^t> in any mannor of speaking
[01:29:26] <Kevin`> right, but people still pay $20 for it. it's not the chip cost that's the issue ;)
[01:29:43] <brentbxr^t> oh no it is
[01:29:48] <brentbxr^t> search digikey
[01:29:53] <brentbxr^t> i said at cost
[01:29:58] <brentbxr^t> i wasnt lieing
[01:30:16] <brentbxr^t> i dare you to find an FPGA development board under 50$
[01:30:18] * Landon personally hasn't met a DIP fpga that looks fun to breadboard with
[01:30:30] <brentbxr^t> lol DIP FPGA
[01:30:32] <brentbxr^t> LOL
[01:30:33] <brentbxr^t> LOL
[01:30:38] <brentbxr^t> OMG
[01:30:53] <brentbxr^t> omg
[01:31:08] <brentbxr^t> a dip fpga
[01:31:10] <Landon> just saying, cost isn't the _only_ issue :P
[01:31:13] <brentbxr^t> perhaps a CPLD
[01:31:17] <brentbxr^t> is what you want
[01:31:31] <brentbxr^t> landon
[01:31:38] <brentbxr^t> you want somthing you can breadboard
[01:31:43] <brentbxr^t> get a CPLD
[01:32:03] <Landon> I'm just not that interested in splurging on a whole dev board when I can stick a micro in a breadboard
[01:32:11] <brentbxr^t> if you want to deal with FPGAs you also have to graduate from breadboards (for the most part)
[01:32:24] <ziph> brentbxr^t == flyback II, right?
[01:32:41] <brentbxr^t> ?
[01:32:46] <Landon> I've got a handful of CPLDs , but I kind of doubt any sort of open source toolchain exists for them
[01:33:00] <brentbxr^t> so
[01:33:04] <Landon> ziph: a new generation of flyback, I guess
[01:33:09] <brentbxr^t> what manufacture?
[01:33:17] <Landon> hm
[01:33:24] <Landon> I'll go fetch them, but my mind is thinking lattice
[01:33:35] <brentbxr^t> hm
[01:33:42] <brentbxr^t> well either way
[01:33:48] <brentbxr^t> why do you need open source?
[01:33:54] <brentbxr^t> to program your CPLDs
[01:34:00] <Landon> generally open source == linux support :)
[01:34:07] <brentbxr^t> :3 true
[01:34:13] <brentbxr^t> just like the big
[01:34:28] <brentbxr^t> no FTDI -> jtag = xilinx supportable
[01:34:30] <brentbxr^t> EXCEPT
[01:34:38] <brentbxr^t> linux because the ftdi frivers :3
[01:34:48] <brentbxr^t> ah well
[01:35:40] <brentbxr^t> but anyways
[01:35:48] <brentbxr^t> anyone want a free pcb?
[01:36:03] <brentbxr^t> for the AVR transistor tester i talked about before?
[01:36:22] <brentbxr^t> im shipping out 3/4 of them tomorrow
[01:36:37] <brentbxr^t> after that im not shipping anything so if anyone wants one let me know now
[01:36:49] <CapnKernel> Every board comes with a free brentbxr^t to talk with
[01:36:59] <brentbxr^t> not really
[01:37:19] <brentbxr^t> capn
[01:37:31] <brentbxr^t> can you enlighten us on your PCB service?
[01:38:01] <brentbxr^t> iv been looking for better places
[01:38:28] <brentbxr^t> strangly I have never heard of 'CapnKernel's PCB service
[01:38:44] <brentbxr^t> so do you have a website?
[01:38:50] <CapnKernel> Not for PCBs.
[01:38:52] <brentbxr^t> or somthing? to compare pricing?
[01:38:59] <CapnKernel> You have to be "special" to get PCBs through me
[01:39:10] <brentbxr^t> lol
[01:39:20] <brentbxr^t> so waht do you offer to the public?
[01:39:29] <Kevin`> my cheapo multimeter does v,a,r,c, voltage drop and hFe, why build a board for those things?
[01:40:14] <CapnKernel> PCBs, and parts. In particular, if you're doing a project and building several copies of the board, send me the BoM and I'll provide the parts.
[01:40:22] <brentbxr^t> thats not the point infact the actual readings arnt trustworthy
[01:40:22] <CapnKernel> cyanide just got his parts this morning :-)
[01:41:27] <brentbxr^t> so you go to digikey type in the part number and press xXammount? then go onto the next one?
[01:41:28] <CapnKernel> A friend has asked me to quote him on the PCBs and parts for the Reprap RAMPS 1.4 board:
http://reprap.org/wiki/RAMPS_1.4
[01:41:53] <CapnKernel> I don't, but you can.
[01:42:16] <brentbxr^t> well thats what I dont understand
[01:42:23] <brentbxr^t> if i built the parts list
[01:42:29] <brentbxr^t> why would I need you to
[01:42:32] <brentbxr^t> well do anything
[01:42:40] <CapnKernel> You don't.
[01:42:47] <brentbxr^t> oh
[01:42:50] <CapnKernel> You're completely right. You don't need me.
[01:42:51] <CapnKernel> Next.
[01:42:56] <brentbxr^t> ah
[01:42:59] <brentbxr^t> ok i get it
[01:43:23] <CapnKernel> I do special deals for special people.
[01:43:31] <CapnKernel> Like #avr people
[01:43:41] <brentbxr^t> exactly
[01:45:40] <ziph> Do I get a special 20% surcharge for being an arsehat?
[01:45:55] <brentbxr^t> lool
[01:48:01] <CapnKernel> ziph: Don't think I've forgotten how magnificently you trolled me the other day :-)
[01:49:55] <CapnKernel> ponce.
[01:50:07] <ziph> yay
[01:50:08] <CapnKernel> ziph: not you
[01:50:10] <ziph> he's
[01:50:11] <ziph> gone
[01:50:12] <CapnKernel> sorry
[01:50:12] <ziph> and
[01:50:15] <ziph> taken
[01:50:16] <ziph> his
[01:50:16] <CapnKernel> yeah
[01:50:17] <ziph> weird
[01:50:18] <CapnKernel> I
[01:50:18] <ziph> IRC
[01:50:19] <CapnKernel> know
[01:50:21] <ziph> with him.
[01:50:59] <CapnKernel> It was like.... like reading old style chinese, written from top to bottom
[01:51:08] <aintnothin> Whats so weird about my IRC?
[01:51:26] <CapnKernel> nothing
[01:51:27] <CapnKernel> at
[01:51:27] <BrentBXR^r> perhaps not on my level
[01:51:27] <CapnKernel> all
[01:51:44] <BrentBXR^r> trillian DCs somtimes
[01:52:25] <BrentBXR^r> Perhaps instead of talkin shit about my method of typing
[01:52:39] <BrentBXR^r> you tell us more about your awesome buisness plan
[01:53:51] <BrentBXR^r> ziph perhaps just stop being a bitch
[01:54:16] <BrentBXR^r> well whatever
[01:54:49] <ziph> Where's Tom when you need a ban.
[01:55:05] <BrentBXR^r> lol a ban
[01:55:07] <CapnKernel> Try rue_house
[01:55:34] <BrentBXR^r> omg i coudnt live without my #avr channel
[01:55:43] <BrentBXR^r> how could I learn how to stay a newb
[01:56:09] <CapnKernel> "Must not feed the troll, must not feed the troll"
[01:56:20] <CapnKernel> ziph: You taught me well
[01:57:01] <BrentBXR^r> Im not trolling
[01:57:11] <ziph> No, you're just 13.
[01:57:22] <CapnKernel> ziph: we don't know that
[01:57:30] <CapnKernel> and even if he was, 13yos are welcome here
[01:57:31] <ziph> It's fairly obvious.
[01:57:34] <BrentBXR^r> I dont understand
[01:57:36] <BrentBXR^r> how so
[01:57:38] <BrentBXR^r> ziph
[01:57:41] <BrentBXR^r> explain
[01:57:46] <BrentBXR^r> in detai
[01:57:47] <BrentBXR^r> l
[01:57:50] <ziph> CapnKernel: Intelligent ones are.
[01:58:16] <CapnKernel> I suspect he's actually quite smart
[01:58:31] <BrentBXR^r> So because i dont like how you make some lame comment about me
[01:58:32] <CapnKernel> Problem is, seems to come with a powerful dose of attitude
[01:58:37] <ziph> You think he just missed a few years of school where they teach punctuation?
[01:58:58] <BrentBXR^r> making to many 'enter' keys when i type
[01:59:00] <BrentBXR^r> im 13?
[01:59:22] <BrentBXR^r> ziph you think i care?
[01:59:30] <CapnKernel> Nahh, I just think he's failing the "don't be a dick" test
[01:59:33] <Landon> not making efficient use of our limited vertical space with your lines :(
[01:59:47] <BrentBXR^r> you think I care if I dont punctuate what I TYPE in irc?
[02:00:04] <CapnKernel> My mouse wheel's sent me two letters of official complaint just this morning!
[02:00:08] <BrentBXR^r> capn
[02:00:12] <BrentBXR^r> actually I agree
[02:00:20] <BrentBXR^r> infact
[02:00:25] <BrentBXR^r> i agree so much
[02:00:35] <BrentBXR^r> i dont even quite know how I got here
[02:00:44] <BrentBXR^r> however i got here I do regret
[02:00:47] <ziph> CapnKernel: Older people are usually better at being annoying.
[02:00:56] <BrentBXR^r> this is not the position i want to be in
[02:01:02] <ziph> CapnKernel: Like me, for example.
[02:01:04] <BrentBXR^r> stfu zip
[02:01:23] <CapnKernel> Valen: You're just in time for the fun
[02:01:33] <Valen> what did i miss?
[02:01:38] <CapnKernel> We have a FIGJAM in our midst.
[02:01:40] <BrentBXR^r> some newbs
[02:02:26] <BrentBXR^r> capn
[02:02:42] <Valen> FIGJAM thats a new term to me, interesting, i'll have to use that some time ;->
[02:02:56] <BrentBXR^r> whos valen
[02:03:05] <BrentBXR^r> valen can me
[02:03:05] <Valen> me
[02:03:08] <BrentBXR^r> ban*
[02:03:24] <Valen> oh a troll CapnKernel?
[02:03:34] <BrentBXR^r> no
[02:03:36] <ziph> He's a 13 year old troll, Valen.
[02:03:41] <BrentBXR^r> they just dont agree
[02:03:58] <BrentBXR^r> and ziph is just a moron
[02:04:01] <Valen> well ziph and CapnKernel both are pretty good with this stuff
[02:04:08] <Valen> ziph perhaps more so
[02:04:13] <BrentBXR^r> capn isnt ziph is trying
[02:04:17] <CapnKernel> Naah I'm a newb
[02:04:30] <BrentBXR^r> i disagree
[02:04:30] <ziph> Valen: Good at trolling?
[02:04:32] <BrentBXR^r> infact
[02:04:43] <BrentBXR^r> you saw it frist
[02:04:45] <Valen> ziph well pretty good at on topic stuff ;-P
[02:04:47] <BrentBXR^r> ziph is a follower
[02:04:59] <BrentBXR^r> and valen = none
[02:04:59] <ziph> Valen: Ahh, right.
[02:05:01] <BrentBXR^r> noone
[02:05:03] <ziph> Valen: And we're not 13.
[02:05:14] <Valen> well there is that in your favour
[02:05:25] <CapnKernel> So much fun to watch the troller being trolled
[02:05:29] <Valen> hell both of my balls have dropped so i'm way in front
[02:05:32] <BrentBXR^r> :D
[02:05:46] <CapnKernel> You've got two? (/me writes angry letter to God)
[02:05:46] <BrentBXR^r> present them
[02:05:55] <BrentBXR^r> lol god
[02:06:11] <BrentBXR^r> newbs
[02:06:17] <CapnKernel> I'll let you read the first line: "Dear Tom_itx"
[02:06:25] <BrentBXR^r> you think santa is real too?
[02:06:39] <Valen> CapnKernel: is perhaps not the best at conveying a point
[02:06:42] <CapnKernel> Sure, although around here, he goes by the name of abcminiuser
[02:06:51] <Valen> so what is the paticular issue?
[02:06:59] <BrentBXR^r> you newbs
[02:07:07] <BrentBXR^r> why the fuck am i still here
[02:07:08] <CapnKernel> Coz abc's always like, giving us cool stuff
[02:07:08] <Valen> abcminiuser is perhaps "a" god, i wouldn't say "the" god
[02:07:12] <BrentBXR^r> SOMEONE BAN ME
[02:07:13] <BrentBXR^r> BAN ME
[02:07:15] <BrentBXR^r> BAN ME
[02:07:26] <BrentBXR^r> talk some big game
[02:07:30] <inflex> O_o
[02:07:33] <BrentBXR^r> cant do shit
[02:07:37] <BrentBXR^r> inflex
[02:07:40] <BrentBXR^r> ban me/.
[02:07:43] <inflex> lo there CapnKernel , Valen , abcmini and Tom_itx
[02:07:57] <CapnKernel> inflex: G'day
[02:08:00] <ziph> Hey inflex
[02:08:03] <BrentBXR^r> whatever
[02:08:07] <inflex> BrentBXR^r: what are you? Some crazed Signory Weaver freak?
[02:08:23] <BrentBXR^r> no infact
[02:08:34] <BrentBXR^r> i was having a calm convo
[02:08:38] <BrentBXR^r> to be quite honest
[02:08:45] <BrentBXR^r> i dont know where it went crazy
[02:08:50] <CapnKernel> "I'd like to calmly tell you all how fucking good I am"
[02:09:01] <CapnKernel> It went wrong with the complete lack of humility on your part.
[02:09:12] <BrentBXR^r> did i say that?
[02:09:19] <BrentBXR^r> thats cool
[02:09:22] <BrentBXR^r> i can say that
[02:09:24] <Valen> CapnKernel: is good at inciting insanity, other than that he's a good guy
[02:09:29] <BrentBXR^r> doesnt offent anyone
[02:09:35] <CapnKernel> I have that effect on people :-)
[02:09:49] <BrentBXR^r> well lets start this over.
[02:09:51] <BrentBXR^r> please
[02:09:56] * inflex is actually in the mood tonight to do some more boards, alas, no regulators...
[02:09:58] <BrentBXR^r> and be grownup let me talk
[02:10:07] * inflex can't believe he's gone through 1500 regulators already :(
[02:10:12] <BrentBXR^r> I was talking FPGAs. I will admit
[02:10:12] <Landon> inflex: :|
[02:10:19] <Valen> inflex: is that like i wanted to go to the gym except .... ?
[02:10:20] <BrentBXR^r> i poked at capn
[02:10:24] <Landon> how many boards is that ==, inflex?
[02:10:30] <inflex> Landon: 1500 :D
[02:10:34] <BrentBXR^r> and I didnt truly mean it
[02:10:41] <CapnKernel> inflex: That's pretty impressive
[02:10:42] <inflex> Landon: though I would only be making 10 boards tonight if I wanted to
[02:10:43] <BrentBXR^r> i admit
[02:10:47] <BrentBXR^r> i was being a dick
[02:10:48] <Landon> that's probably more than I've seen in my life :P
[02:10:53] <ziph> inflex: I guess they're not LT, otherwise that'd be a BMW's worth. ;)
[02:10:55] <BrentBXR^r> and landon wont stfu
[02:10:59] <inflex> I just mean that in the lifespan of this style of model, I've made/sold 1500 units
[02:11:17] <Valen> now what did you do with all the money you made selling them ;-P
[02:11:19] <inflex> ziph: oh hell no... they're just NCP1117 from ON
[02:11:28] <inflex> Valen: I sadly wonder that myself
[02:11:33] <Valen> ;->
[02:12:01] <ziph> He booked it all through "Account 4350 EXPENSES: Hookers and Blow".
[02:12:57] <Valen> i knew my accounts package was missing something
[02:13:21] <ziph> I think I'll add that to my chart of accounts and see if my accountant notices.
[02:14:37] <inflex> lolz
[02:14:58] <CapnKernel> So, I'm thinking that toxic metals accumulate
[02:15:01] <inflex> Anyhow, I could perhaps go over and see if there's any boards that have the regulator that I can simply reclaim on
[02:15:12] <CapnKernel> And you solder a board, that's gotta be worth a few micrograms
[02:15:17] <CapnKernel> So, had a lead test lately inflex?
[02:15:30] <inflex> CapnKernel: nope
[02:15:48] <inflex> it'spretty hard to get lead into your system just from toching
[02:16:05] <Valen> lead isn't really that bad unless your eating or inhaling the stuff
[02:16:08] <inflex> most lead poisoning is via ingestion
[02:16:23] <CapnKernel> Interesting
[02:16:23] <inflex> yeah, our biggest risk is if you're dealing with lead over ~400'C
[02:16:34] <Kevin`> inflex: it's suprising that you can use leaded solder for products that you sell (I can understand it for personal use, since it's clearly superior). certain countries have annoying regulations about that, right?
[02:16:35] <inflex> (eg, becomes vapour)
[02:16:36] <ziph> You're probably exposed to more lead through imported food. ;)
[02:16:39] <Valen> you need an assload of lead to get poisned from it too i believe
[02:16:53] <inflex> Kevin`: that is true - but since it's "aeronautical" stuff, it's a bit of a tiny loophole
[02:17:03] <Valen> only need a small amount to retard a child though
[02:17:09] <ziph> I thought the only exception was medical?
[02:17:11] * CapnKernel lives in the country where all the imported lead comes from
[02:17:24] <Valen> inflex: i'm not sure that RC counts as "aeronautical" ;-P
[02:17:27] <ziph> New Zealand?
[02:17:40] <Kevin`> inflex: do you do the RC stuff? I forget. i'm suprised that counts, althought it's nice
[02:17:42] <inflex> personally I prefer the lead-tin alloy to most Pb-free options, as it tends to be a lot less reactive
[02:17:49] <inflex> Kevin`: well, I don't much any more
[02:18:06] * inflex could switch over to lead-free, but it'd be a pita and expensive.
[02:18:20] <inflex> my reflow oven could probably -just- manage it
[02:18:26] <Kevin`> don't do it in my account, lead-free is annoying
[02:18:30] <ziph> Hmm, this VSSOP8 has legs that are smaller than my usual pin 1 dot.
[02:18:43] <Valen> inflex: you should go lead free, so people buy more stuff from you ;->
[02:18:52] <inflex> Valen: except I'm closing the business.
[02:18:58] <Valen> ahh
[02:18:59] <Valen> :-<
[02:19:02] <inflex> http://www.nqrc.com/
[02:19:05] <Valen> going to get a "real" job?
[02:19:15] <inflex> hahaha no, I'm going to get into hookers and blackjack now.
[02:19:26] <Valen> ahh well thats ok then
[02:19:30] <ziph> Awesome.
[02:19:33] <ziph> It is Queensland after all.
[02:19:34] <Valen> I was worried for a minute there
[02:19:37] <Kevin`> that's nowhere near as fun
[02:19:45] <inflex> Sadly, in actuality, I'm doing book publishing and computer servicing / websites / software-writing
[02:19:47] <Valen> theres a whole deck of cards in QLD?
[02:19:48] <ziph> Why would you live somewhere that lawless if you weren't getting something out of it? :)
[02:20:07] <CapnKernel> LOL
[02:20:28] * CapnKernel feels better that he can inhale all that good resiny goodness without feeling guilty it's frying his neurons...
[02:20:50] <inflex> CapnKernel: well, be careful with that - since there's a notable amount of lead spluttering going on still
[02:21:17] <inflex> one thing you have to remember though is that solder is an alloy of lead-tin as you know, as such the lead isn't freely available for direct absorption
[02:22:06] <inflex> the biggest issue with electronics is more frequently the breathing issues that the organic compounds cause from the smoke
[02:23:14] <ziph> Again you probably get more and worse from the outgassing of all the crap in our houses.
[02:25:38] * CapnKernel is wondering about the connection between an alloy, and an amalgam, for example, where the mercury doesn't poison you because it's bound to the silver.
[02:25:55] <inflex> CapnKernel: yep, good parallels there.
[02:26:19] <CapnKernel> I feel better now
[02:26:19] <inflex> Of course, a lot of mercury poisioning from amalgam fillings has been due to either poor original mix, or another catalyst, like gold.
[02:26:30] <CapnKernel> But note to self, no more licking the solder pot!
[02:26:39] <inflex> but the lead makes it soooo sweet :D
[02:26:41] <ziph> There's one multicore wick that smells reeeeally nice when you use it.
[02:26:49] <CapnKernel> Stop your wining
[02:26:58] <inflex> amazing to think that people used to use lead to sweeten wine
[02:27:06] <CapnKernel> (I got there first)
[02:27:15] <CapnKernel> Romans even!
[02:27:25] * ziph hopes sugar is cheaper than lead in China.
[02:27:26] <Kevin`> inflex: we probably use crap that's just as bad now to sweeten soda
[02:27:42] <inflex> Kevin`: ah yes, artificial sweeteners are evil
[02:27:48] <CapnKernel> Yeah, it's called High Fructose Corn Syrup
[02:27:50] <inflex> that too
[02:27:55] <CapnKernel> (We don't use that shit in Australia)
[02:28:04] <CapnKernel> So our coke tastes different
[02:28:04] <inflex> indeed, thank god for all the QLD Sugarcane :)
[02:28:07] <inflex> makes good ethanol too
[02:28:17] <CapnKernel> Yup
[02:28:41] <ziph> You can buy HFCS coke in Australia..
[02:29:04] <inflex> ziph: probably "proudly promoted"too
[02:29:11] <ziph> http://www.usafoods.com.au/p5931/soda/classic-coke/
[02:29:13] <inflex> "Buy NOW... exclusively from the USA!!!"
[02:29:14] <ziph> Sold out.
[02:29:54] <Kevin`> sold out? what kind of store can't stock that stuff
[02:29:55] * inflex is glad he never was much of a soda/soft-drink person
[02:30:15] <inflex> I like my water, coffee, orange juice and occasionally ginger-beer
[02:30:52] <Kevin`> yeah same here, I drink maybe one a month
[02:32:19] <ziph> Mmm, I have 230 0603's on a single sheet.
[02:49:36] <rudolf_> hi
[02:49:54] <Valen> inflex, they used lead pipe till quite recently
[02:51:00] <inflex> Valen: and then lead-soldering for copper pipes
[02:51:17] <Valen> to be fair i just did some of that
[02:51:32] <Valen> lead solder on my water pipes
[02:51:47] <mrfrenzy> do they still use lead solder for that?
[02:52:02] <Valen> mainly because the lead free stuff *sucked ASS* to solder with
[02:52:16] <mrfrenzy> then you didn't have the right flux or high enough temp
[02:53:08] <Valen> pipes were quite old and had a poor fit
[02:53:44] <Valen> did it with lead in .25 of a second, with the lead free solder i screwed around for half an hour
[03:00:02] <inflex> you really need to braze them these days
[03:00:25] <inflex> and that requires one of those propane torches
[03:00:48] <inflex> for new installations, you have to braze, lead/solder isn't permitted
[03:01:35] <mrfrenzy> for new installations it's easier and cheaper to use plastic pipes
[03:01:57] <inflex> for hot/cold water to basins and such? really?
[03:02:14] <mrfrenzy> yes, for everything
[03:02:17] * inflex wouldn't think so, specifically regarding durability/survivability in exposed situations
[03:02:21] <mrfrenzy> it's a pipe-in-pipe system
[03:02:35] <mrfrenzy> if the inner pipe cracks, there is an outer pipe that collects the water
[03:02:46] <mrfrenzy> the leakage ends up somewhere you can see it but not dangerous
[03:02:56] <mrfrenzy> so you just pull the inner pipe out and install a new one
[03:03:03] <mrfrenzy> calculated to last at least 50 years
[03:03:10] <inflex> what sort of plastic is the pipe?
[03:03:13] <inflex> (the inner)
[03:03:28] <mrfrenzy> PEX
[03:04:46] <mrfrenzy> http://www.uponor.co.uk/solutions/plumbing-solutions/pe-xa-pipe-system.aspx
[03:05:48] <Valen> I was using the hotter than hot gas torc
[03:05:50] <Valen> torch
[03:05:58] <Valen> mapp gas not propane
[03:06:16] <Valen> i've not heard of them doing pipe like that
[03:06:18] <mrfrenzy> it's different for different contries if you check their different languages, I can't find the pip-in-pipe on an english speaking country, but they have pex for alla countries
[03:06:21] <inflex> well, at least the PEX is a buttload cheaper
[03:06:37] <inflex> http://www.plumbingnetworks.com/info/pex-copper/
[03:06:48] <Valen> i believe here they just use poly pipe with a thicker wall for hot water, counts as insulated as well
[03:07:26] <Valen> I want to run a manifold system for my water when i replumb it
[03:08:00] <Valen> with ~1 inch water lines to the showers
[03:08:11] <Valen> and to the hot water system
[03:08:33] <Valen> I was trying also to work out how to make it such that turning on a hot or cold tap wouldn't bother the temp in a shower
[03:09:01] <Valen> the only positive way i can come up with is some kind of balancing valve that maintains both systems at the same pressure
[03:16:52] <CapnKernel> I'm off! :-)
[03:16:55] <CapnKernel> See y'all later
[03:17:16] <CapnKernel> I had a PM chat with BrentBXR, he calmed down, which was good.
[03:18:36] <CapnKernel> To quote Hitchhiker's Guide: "At least one of his heads was saner than an emu on acid" :-)
[06:42:50] <Tom_itx> Valen, recirculation pump but it's inefficient
[06:44:00] <Tom_itx> and i'd discourage 1" lines as it takes longer for the hot water to reach it's destination
[06:44:29] <Tom_itx> wastes more water in the end
[06:46:51] <Kevin`> stick a pid controller on your shower
[06:46:57] <Kevin`> problem solved
[06:47:36] <mrfrenzy> just get any regular shower faucet with a mechanical thermostat, works without a problem
[06:48:23] <mrfrenzy> when running thick or long hot water lines you can keep it hot with a small circulation pump (it's a standard thing)
[06:48:58] <Tom_itx> like i said but they're inefficient
[06:49:16] <mrfrenzy> they don't flush any water out the drain
[06:49:19] <mrfrenzy> just circulate it in the pipes
[06:49:34] <Tom_itx> and the pipes are just like a radiator wasting energy
[06:49:37] <mrfrenzy> you waste more water and energy in a conventional system without the pump
[06:49:38] <mrfrenzy> yes
[06:49:59] <mrfrenzy> but you don't pour water out each time you open the faucet waiting for hot water to come
[06:50:07] <Tom_itx> so, get 2 or 3 on demand heaters at the destination
[06:50:26] <mrfrenzy> sure, if you already heat your water with electricity
[06:50:32] <Tom_itx> half the pipe too
[06:50:33] <mrfrenzy> I prefer to use cheaper heat sources
[06:50:48] <Tom_itx> they have gas on demand too
[06:51:11] <mrfrenzy> gas is about as expensive as electricity
[06:51:25] <Tom_itx> for you then a cold shower is in order
[06:52:13] <mrfrenzy> I use wood pellets
[06:52:19] <mrfrenzy> that's half the cost of electricity
[06:52:29] <Tom_itx> not here
[06:52:41] <mrfrenzy> lucky you
[06:52:46] <mrfrenzy> we have massive taxes on electricity
[06:53:33] <Tom_itx> what's a bag of pellets cost there?
[06:53:55] <Tom_itx> i don't know what it is here but at one point it was upwards of $3 a bag
[06:54:15] <Tom_itx> or corn
[06:54:17] <mrfrenzy> bags come in various sizes, more interesting is the price per kg
[06:55:28] <mrfrenzy> $0,337 per kg
[06:55:57] <mrfrenzy> electricity costs $0.192 per kWh
[06:56:26] <mrfrenzy> 1kg of pellets contain 4,5 kWh
[06:57:08] <Tom_itx> delivered?
[06:57:13] <mrfrenzy> yes
[06:57:59] <Tom_itx> i looked into a pellet stove but figured it would cost me more in the end
[06:58:34] <mrfrenzy> how much do you pay for electricity?
[06:58:56] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what it is currently
[06:59:10] <Tom_itx> this was several years back when i was looking
[06:59:33] <mrfrenzy> electricity just gets more expensive as the oil demand increases and supply lessens
[07:00:41] <Valen> recirc pump wont keep the pressure between hot and water the same Tom_itx
[07:01:28] <Valen> Kevin`: i was 50/50 on putting am automagic controller lol
[07:02:06] <Valen> i only have electricity for heating, so i use an offpeak
[07:02:39] <Valen> offpeak electricity is ~10c/kwh
[07:02:49] <mrfrenzy> as long as you have a thermostat the pressure doesn't matter
[07:03:31] <Tom_itx> ~$.02 / KWhr here
[07:03:48] <Valen> Tom_itx: i hate you
[07:03:56] <Tom_itx> .019
[07:03:58] <Tom_itx> actually
[07:04:08] * Tom_itx turns all the lights on
[07:04:23] * Valen posts Tom_itx some batteries to fill
[07:04:35] <mrfrenzy> that's ridiculous
[07:04:50] <Tom_itx> i dunno what the gas charge is, i didn't look that one up
[07:05:01] <Tom_itx> but you see why it's not efficient for a pellet stove
[07:05:32] <mrfrenzy> indeed
[07:06:35] <Tom_itx> i doubt that includes all the local taxes
[07:16:42] <cyanide> lol, stupid problem
[07:16:59] <cyanide> ive ended up with 3 steering wheel controllers in a span of 1 day
[08:21:56] <OndraSter> duh, when I try setting up breakpoint in non-main file, it sets the pointer at the first instruction in the main file
[08:22:03] <OndraSter> (when it is running and paused it)
[08:22:07] <OndraSter> AVR Studio 5.0
[08:22:23] <Steffanx> Get 5.1?
[08:22:31] <Steffanx> Not sure if they fixed that though
[08:23:35] <OndraSter> and when I do that when it is stopped, it doesn't fire up the breakpoint
[08:23:37] <OndraSter> hmm
[08:23:52] <OndraSter> was that reported bug or did you run into it as well, Steffanx ?
[08:24:23] <OndraSter> I am trying to setup breakpoint within interrupt
[08:24:45] <Steffanx> I don't use AS
[08:26:36] <OndraSter> oh well, time to run the 5.1
[08:26:39] <OndraSter> update dragon...
[08:27:47] <OndraSter> note to myself: disconnect all serial peripherals before running avr dragon upgrade :P
[08:29:57] <Steffanx> Note to OndraSter: Fill in RMA form before updating the avr dragon fw
[08:29:58] <OndraSter> nope, not fixed in AVRS51
[08:30:09] <OndraSter> what Steffanx
[08:30:09] <OndraSter> :P
[09:55:03] <monode> hello
[09:55:19] <OndraSter> elo
[09:57:52] <monode> i am using a custom makefile. I am trying to define a section of my flash to be used for storing serial number/hardware id/etc (variables known only at programming time, which can be add after flashing, and without requiring recompilation)
[09:58:39] <monode> i'm not exactly sure what's wrong, but i never get to see an extra section in my .hex
[09:59:01] <monode> i have this: LDFLAGS = -Wl,--section-start=.uid=$(ADDR_UID)
[09:59:19] <monode> somewhere above, i define ADDR_UID, ADDR_UID = 0x0200
[09:59:48] <monode> my makefile is just a two step one: obj/%.o: src/%.c
[09:59:54] <zump> OndraSter: where did u get nrf modules for 2.50 o.O
[10:00:05] <OndraSter> whole board with all parts
[10:00:06] <OndraSter> ebay
[10:00:13] <monode> with the single command: gcc $(LDFLAGS) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
[10:00:34] <monode> and a final one, obj/$(PRJ).o: $(OBJS)
[10:01:00] <monode> which does the final linkage: @$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $(INCS) $(OBJS) -o bin/$(PRJ).elf -lm
[10:01:09] <monode> what exactly am i missing?
[10:01:13] <monode> i suspect it's a makefile problem
[10:02:41] <monode> do i need to specify ldflags later too?
[10:02:45] <monode> while doing objdump for example?
[10:02:45] <OndraSter> ey CapnKernel
[10:03:08] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: Hi there!
[10:07:50] <timemage> monode, nots ure what objdump would do with them. also with -c, it's likely anything you have in ldflags isn't used either.
[10:08:13] <abcminiuser> QTouch Composer is live!
[10:08:23] <abcminiuser> AS6 - go to extension manager, onlin extensions
[10:09:27] <monode> well
[10:09:33] <monode> without -c it fails on interrupts
[10:10:48] <timemage> monode, dunno why that would be. all -c does is stop before linking.
[10:11:30] <monode> as i said, i'm linking in a separate step
[10:11:46] <monode> that one doesn't have -c: @$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $(INCS) $(OBJS) -o bin/$(PRJ).elf -lm
[10:12:10] <monode> the command with -c is too compile source files to object files one by one
[10:12:18] <timemage> monode, right. what i was saying is that: gcc $(LDFLAGS) < $(CFLAGS) -c
[10:12:33] <timemage> monode, right. what i was saying is that: gcc $(LDFLAGS) <---this is made useless $(CFLAGS) -c <- by this
[10:12:43] <monode> well, that's what i was thinking
[10:12:51] <monode> it's useless to specify a ssection when compiling only a single file
[10:12:55] <monode> and not doing the final linkage
[10:13:26] <monode> so where exactly does the LDFLAGS for adding an extra ssection go?
[10:13:51] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, does anybody use qtouch?
[10:13:55] <OndraSter> I find it quite cool though :
[10:13:56] <OndraSter> :)
[10:14:00] <OndraSter> but didn't use it yet
[10:14:04] <OndraSter> maybe in the future...
[10:14:06] <monode> and you'd probably say "in the linking stage" (or so i'm inclinedto believe)
[10:14:14] <monode> but that doesn't work, i don't get anything in the hex file.
[10:14:29] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, I never did because it required some voodoo to get the library working
[10:14:37] <monode> also i have this at the global level, just to be sure something gets written: uint32_t serial_number __attribute__ ((section (".uid"))) = 0xBEBA0BB0;
[10:14:43] <abcminiuser> Now it's got a sexy wizard to set it up for you
[10:15:20] <OndraSter> hehe
[10:15:41] <OndraSter> it requires AVR Software Framework, doesn't it?
[10:16:32] <CapnKernel> I held a party for QTouch
[10:16:34] <CapnKernel> Nobody came.
[10:16:41] <OndraSter> :D
[10:16:48] <Kevin`> what's qtouch's target market anyway? atmel seems to prominently advertise it for some reason
[10:16:59] <OndraSter> touch-enabled small devices
[10:17:03] <OndraSter> that do not have touchscreen
[10:17:08] <CapnKernel> They advertise it because they poured a bagload of R&D money into it, and would like to see a return
[10:17:08] <abcminiuser> Kevin`, SELECT * FROM *
[10:17:14] <Kevin`> like what, industrial control?
[10:17:33] <Kevin`> I could see it instead of those dome buttons, but either works
[10:17:34] <abcminiuser> It's very much used, but generally by big companies that pay for us to support them
[10:17:41] <abcminiuser> And yes, that's one app
[10:17:53] <timemage> monode, if you can make a minimal test, i'll try it here. as it is, i don't understand what you're running into. my only suggestion is to add -Wl,-Map=project.map and see if you learn anything from the map file.
[10:27:22] <monode> well
[10:27:34] <monode> i see Address of section .uid set to 0x200
[10:27:39] <monode> which seems correct
[10:27:43] <monode> but it's not loaded with anything, hmm..
[10:27:53] <timemage> fg
[10:27:55] <timemage> ack
[10:28:24] <timemage> well, you have it in ram?
[10:30:25] <monode> no, what would be the point of a section in ram?
[10:30:37] <monode> it's supposed to be a uniqueid/hardware number to be stored in flash
[10:32:00] * specing is feeling assemblish today
[10:32:01] <timemage> monode, i was just trying to determine why you thought it wasn't "loaded with anything"
[10:32:29] <monode> well
[10:32:33] <monode> i'm loading it with this: uint32_t serial_number __attribute__ ((section (".uid"))) = 0xBEBA0BB0;
[10:32:47] <monode> shouldn't that magic value appear in flash at 0x0200?
[10:33:21] <timemage> monode, i would think so. i'm not actually flashing my test here though. just watching the number i'm testing with show up in objdump -s
[10:33:43] <timemage> Contents of section abcd: 0200 ddccbbaa
[10:34:19] <monode> what command did you use exactly?
[10:35:40] <timemage> unsigned long serial_number __attribute__ ((section ("abcd"))) = 0xAABBCCDD; int main() { } ||| avr-gcc main.c -Wl,--section-start=abcd=0x200 -Wl,-Map=project.map && cat project.map ||| objdump -s
[10:35:50] <timemage> ||| just being used as a delimiter.
[10:37:58] <timemage> i just swiched to unsigned long so i could do without the header for the test. chose a pattern i'd see easily. otherwise it should be pretty close to what you're trying to. at least, if i understand what you mean.
[10:38:47] <timemage> missing a.out from the objdump -s line.
[10:39:39] <monode> Contents of section .uid:
[10:39:39] <monode> 0000 b00bbabe ....
[10:39:41] <monode> hm.
[10:39:57] <monode> so this works, but it doesn't go in the .hex
[10:40:08] <timemage> no?
[10:40:14] <monode> can you do an oc?
[10:40:18] <monode> oh. sh@t
[10:40:27] <timemage> yes?
[10:40:30] <monode> i need to add the section while dumping the hex
[10:40:35] <monode> ._.
[10:40:43] <timemage> i have no idea what you mean by that. but ok.
[10:40:54] <monode> one moment
[10:41:24] <monode> :04020000B00BBABEC7
[10:41:26] <monode> win!
[10:41:34] <monode> the section was there all the time
[10:41:53] <monode> but when creating the hex via objcopy, i had to actually tell oc to dump that section into the hex
[10:41:54] <timemage> that's sort of what it sounded like. now you've got to explain to me what you were doing.
[10:42:21] <monode> i changed my objcopy line to this: @$(OC) -j .progmem -j .text -j .data -j .uid -O ihex bin/$(PRJ).elf bin/$(PRJ).hex
[10:42:22] <timemage> really? it didn't just move it over?
[10:42:27] <timemage> ahhh
[10:42:27] <monode> from this @$(OC) -j .progmem -j .text -j .data -O ihex bin/$(PRJ).elf bin/$(PRJ).hex
[10:42:32] <monode> + -j uid
[10:42:34] <monode> makes sense
[10:42:56] <timemage> sort of. why all the -j though? is there a section you're trying to avoid?
[10:42:59] <monode> i almost made this face when it hit me:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GyfXx1cK6BM/TwTBi5-lWrI/AAAAAAAAAdc/xyr7YxRNID8/s1600/tumblr_lvrp8bU9AV1qibz0jo1_500.png
[10:43:04] <monode> oh
[10:43:10] <monode> i'm not a gcc/makefile guru
[10:43:21] <monode> i just got this from a friend
[10:43:40] * timemage shrugs, i've used it for a long time, but i'm no gcc/makefile guru
[10:43:40] <monode> it's rather small and manageable, plus it has a neat structure (/obj, /src, /bin, /dbg) etc
[10:44:03] <monode> so if i drop all the -j-s, it will add all sections by default?
[10:44:28] <timemage> monode, that is my memory.
[10:45:20] <monode> oh yeah
[10:45:23] <monode> looks like it works
[10:45:23] <timemage> monode, it wouldn't have occurred to me that you were doing that.
[10:45:31] <monode> yeah
[10:45:44] <monode> it makes sense, ifthe default behaviour is to include all sections, and i was changing that
[10:46:08] <timemage> monode, that's more of a surgical operator. not the sort of way objcopy is usually used.
[10:46:25] <timemage> err, operation.
[10:46:30] <monode> i see
[10:46:32] <monode> one more question.
[10:46:47] <monode> if i do that initialization, would it simply dump that value in the hex
[10:47:03] <monode> or will it create the opcodes to actually write the data to the respective address via the SPM instruction?
[10:47:26] <monode> (thus deleting the post-programmed value)
[10:49:05] <timemage> monode, it's going right into the hex file at that location. well, in that section which is started at that location. if you have multiple variables going there it would be more complicated. if you were placing it in ram i suspect you'd find that the initial value would go into init_data and you'd see it get copied to its ultimate location in the start code.
[10:49:06] <Kevin`> I suspect all those fancy specifications are so it knows NOT to try to set the value to a memory addres
[10:49:22] <Kevin`> also I don't think gcc will do spm automatically
[10:49:52] <monode> i guess i can just define a section for multiple variables, although that sounds like overkill
[10:50:22] <timemage> monode, you've lost me again.
[10:50:28] <monode> hmm
[10:50:33] <monode> you mentioned multiple variables/section
[10:50:52] <timemage> monode, yeah?
[10:50:58] <monode> all i'm saying is that i can make one section for each variable, but this behaviour sounds like overkill
[10:51:03] <monode> (sorry, english isn't my native tongue)
[10:51:33] <Kevin`> if you have to do that, why not just use a struct
[10:51:41] <timemage> monode, probably. and it's easier to let the linker just place them in consecrative locations than for you to specify where all of it should go.
[10:52:15] <monode> i'd like to place them, so i can change them when flashing the final device
[10:52:43] <monode> (since they are supposed to be serial numbers/board ids/manu date/etc, which can't be written in code)
[10:52:51] <monode> (however, i do need them in code for testing purposes :)
[10:53:04] <Kevin`> if you weren't changing them you would just use the PROGMEM related tags, of course
[10:53:25] <monode> indeed, but i'd like to specify where they go
[10:53:32] <OndraSter> CapnKernel,
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418526_2724023185346_1400123387_31967345_1317366433_n.jpg
[10:53:32] <OndraSter> :)
[10:53:39] <monode> and not have each firmware update change their location
[10:53:48] <OndraSter> it is shining so much that my phone can't see difference on the LED itself lol
[10:53:49] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: You insensitive clod!
[10:53:53] <OndraSter> what
[10:53:59] <CapnKernel> You know I'm in China!
[10:54:07] <OndraSter> I thought you were in Aussie for few days
[10:54:07] <CapnKernel> Facebook is blocked :-)
[10:54:08] <OndraSter> okay
[10:54:23] <Kevin`> monode: out of curiosity, why aren't you using the eeprom section?
[10:54:23] <CapnKernel> I may well be next week, if the visa thing implodes.
[10:54:37] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: imagebin.org
[10:54:38] <monode> CapnKernel: have you tried that exploit through the chinese firewall?
[10:54:40] <Kevin`> monode: there's a few rather valid reasons, but i'm curious
[10:54:56] <CapnKernel> I have a VPN
[10:55:11] <monode> well, i'm curious over how it's done
[10:55:19] <CapnKernel> But it's a whitelist, and I CBF futzing around with all the DNS magic that comes with CDNs.
[10:55:22] <monode> secondly, i know some software can do serial numbering automagically
[10:55:26] <OndraSter> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=40bf7833586103ab&resid=40BF7833586103AB!449&parid=40BF7833586103AB!111&authkey=!AN4zTiQMwAzmQfg CapnKernel
[10:55:37] <monode> but it can only do it in flash
[10:55:51] <Kevin`> monode: why?
[10:56:28] <monode> and third, i'm not sure the final chip could lock the eeprom
[10:56:39] <monode> however, all chips can lock the flash
[10:57:04] <monode> plus, i'd like to really keep the eeprom for userdata
[10:57:14] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: Is there any truth in the rumour
[10:57:23] <OndraSter> which one
[10:57:37] <Kevin`> monode: yeah, if you are concerned about the cpu going out to lunch and executing random instructions (and aren't using the brownout detector for some reason), you can't really use the eeprom section (or flash writing of course)
[10:57:37] <CapnKernel> That it's really the 300m wide rear end of some sort of interstellar spacecraft?
[10:57:47] <OndraSter> pssshh
[10:57:53] <OndraSter> 400m, but psst
[10:58:29] <OndraSter> I MUST disconnect power supply from the LEDs when I am connected with JTAG
[10:58:36] <OndraSter> otherwise bad stuff might happen
[10:58:45] <monode> CapnKernel: sounds legit
[10:58:54] <Kevin`> OndraSter: you are controlling the current to them with the software?
[10:58:54] <CapnKernel> We wants to keep the smoke in, eh?
[10:59:00] <monode> Kevin`: hmm, never thought of that, but that seems an even better reason
[10:59:35] <OndraSter> Kevin`, no, hardware wired to about 60mA or 80mA limit... but not sure how much they run on
[10:59:37] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, yeah lol
[10:59:52] <Kevin`> why would the smoke get out then?
[11:00:02] <OndraSter> because if the app would stop somewhere
[11:00:08] <OndraSter> the ROW wouldn't switch to another
[11:00:11] <OndraSter> to another one
[11:00:24] <OndraSter> there would be 60mA per LED for more than 10% of the second :P
[11:00:27] <OndraSter> and it would BURRNN
[11:00:53] <Kevin`> ah yeah, I have a little project like that in the kitchen
[11:00:56] <OndraSter> :)
[11:29:12] <CapnKernel> This room is too quiet.
[11:30:49] <CapnKernel> Folks: Just warning you, don't listen to Infected Mushroom.
[11:30:57] <CapnKernel> Their music uses mathematics and advanced sex techniques to reprogram your mind's pleasure centres.
[11:31:02] <CapnKernel> Every time I listen my brain has kittens.
[11:31:14] <CapnKernel> (There I said it. I've wanted to say that for a long time)
[11:32:31] <Kevin`> kittens are a dangerous drug
[11:34:10] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, I've been listening to IM many years ago :P
[11:34:25] <CapnKernel> Did you get better?
[11:34:45] <CapnKernel> I listen to them when I'm working
[11:34:51] <CapnKernel> It's Ritalin for my brain
[11:39:48] <OndraSter> wtf
[11:39:51] <OndraSter> poweroff -- on
[11:39:55] <OndraSter> and it doesn't lit up anymore lol
[12:21:20] <carp3> anyone tried AVR Studio 6 ?
[12:21:44] <ziph> abcminiuse*r might have. ;)
[12:21:45] <mrfrenzy> I hear it's just like avr studio 5 + arm support
[12:38:11] <dirty_d> gettin my soldering/hot air station in the mail today :)
[12:38:35] <dirty_d> tried to retrun my radio shack solderign station since i wont need it
[12:38:41] <dirty_d> bastards gave me a $80 gift card
[12:40:58] <OndraSter> heh
[12:53:13] <cyanide> what brand is it?
[12:53:24] <cyanide> i have a ching chong quick 850a
[12:53:39] <cyanide> works nice, but only hot air, no soldering iron
[12:54:19] * specing uses a $10 Conrad precision micro soldering iron
[12:54:53] <cyanide> how well does it do smd?
[12:56:50] <CapnKernel> mrfrenzy: I'm pretty sure your package is en-route between HK and Europe :-)
[12:57:13] <cyanide> mitch, ill check out the stuff i received this morning
[12:57:23] <cyanide> how's the visa business?
[12:57:38] <CapnKernel> I will leave China next Saturday.
[12:57:45] <CapnKernel> I won't know whether I can get back in until after Ileave
[12:57:50] <cyanide> hmm
[12:58:08] <cyanide> why wouldnt they let you back in?
[12:58:17] <cyanide> its not like you're going to cause any trouble
[12:58:21] <CapnKernel> Because I now have two black marks against my name
[12:58:25] <mrfrenzy> CapnKernel: yep, I'm getting emails ;)
[12:58:31] <CapnKernel> :-)
[12:58:43] <CapnKernel> One was from last time, I overstayed by 2 days
[12:58:47] <CapnKernel> last year
[12:58:53] <cyanide> yea i read. but still
[12:58:55] <cyanide> just 2 days
[12:58:56] <CapnKernel> One from this time, also two days but not my fault
[12:59:13] <CapnKernel> But still, these people take overstaying VERY SERIOUSLY
[12:59:34] <CapnKernel> And your notion and my notion of what's reasonable doesn't apply
[12:59:53] <CapnKernel> So it just fucking sucks
[13:01:04] <dirty_d> cyanide, its something
[13:01:22] <CapnKernel> I have vague notions of going to Taiwan
[13:01:55] <CapnKernel> I am closer than ever to my dream of being a really compelling place for hackers to go, when they're building something
[13:02:07] <CapnKernel> I know it's not possible to see that
[13:02:13] <CapnKernel> But there's a lot happening behind the scenes
[13:02:48] <mrfrenzy> I believe you CapnKernel, running a one-man-show (as I do), you can have very competitive prices compared to the big guys
[13:03:05] <CapnKernel> mrfrenzy: Yep, it's a hard road
[13:03:39] <mrfrenzy> but you really have to keep a good eye on all laws and stuff
[13:03:42] <CapnKernel> If my board business starts getting some volume (and I think it will once I automate it), I can pay someone to do some of the easy stuff, and concentrate on the next phase
[13:03:49] <mrfrenzy> if I submit some tax form one day late I will get a hefty fine
[13:03:57] <cyanide> just checked, mitch. it's all there. thanks!
[13:03:58] <mrfrenzy> even if it's their fault for not sending it to me
[13:04:06] <mrfrenzy> I'm supposed to know that anyways
[13:04:14] <CapnKernel> cyanide: It gives a lot of pleasure to hear that cyanide!
[13:04:56] <CapnKernel> cyanide's just made me smile. It's nice to have a win
[13:05:13] <CapnKernel> It was a leap of faith on his part to choose me as his supplier.
[13:05:18] <cyanide> i dont care about the prices, honestly. im getting better service and im helping someone build a business
[13:05:33] <CapnKernel> We both went through a bit of pain working out the components to get
[13:05:39] <CapnKernel> One day it won't be so painful
[13:05:55] <cyanide> i run a small speed shop, i know what it's like to have the first customers
[13:07:07] <cyanide> not a leap of faith for me, honestly. its not a lot of money. people on irc are more trustworthy than a company hiding behind a huge website. atleast to a hobbyist.
[13:07:08] <CapnKernel> I can't believe it, we traded 44 emails :-)
[13:07:35] <CapnKernel> There's the added factor for me that if I screw up, y'all is going to see :-)
[13:07:45] <cyanide> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/HigherDimensional-Butter-Physics.aspx
[13:07:47] <cyanide> hahaha
[13:07:55] <cyanide> incrementing the progress bar
[13:08:54] <CapnKernel> Delicious!
[13:09:40] <CapnKernel> OMG
[13:09:48] <CapnKernel> See the one labelled "Viv spotted on Ascot Vale Rd, Melbourne Australia."?
[13:09:54] <CapnKernel> I worked on that product :-)
[13:10:30] <cyanide> LOL
[13:11:08] <CapnKernel> A VMS B:
http://www.bartco.com.au/Products/Portable_Amber_VMS
[13:11:28] <cyanide> that is awesome
[13:11:58] <cyanide> also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=merbp7mxJ78
[13:12:03] <cyanide> kimi raikkonen on top gear
[13:12:10] <cyanide> sucks that the track was wet
[13:44:49] <CapnKernel> g'night
[13:45:16] <Tom_itx> night
[13:51:16] <OndraSter> gg
[13:52:00] <cyanide> night
[14:44:50] <abcminiuser> Goddam I suck at bash scripting
[14:45:32] * Landon got the hang of perl at one point, but never bash
[14:47:51] <abcminiuser> I just want it so that if Doxygen outputs a warning, it fails the build
[14:48:17] <Landon> what's your general solution now? checking return code?
[14:48:56] <abcminiuser> ( cat Doxygen.conf ; echo "PROJECT_NUMBER=`grep LUFA_VERSION_STRING Version.h | cut -d'"' -f2`" ) | doxygen - 2>&1 | grep "warning" || exit 1
[14:49:19] <abcminiuser> Ignore the first bit, that just does some on the fly editing, that works
[14:49:25] <abcminiuser> doxygen - 2>&1 | grep "warning" || exit 1 doesn't work
[14:50:08] <Landon> http://old.nabble.com/Doxygen-exit-code-td27930548.html have you seen this?
[14:50:19] <Landon> looks somewhat relevant, "You can let doxygen write the warnings to a file, and check if this file
[14:50:19] <Landon> has size 0 to know if there were warnings. "
[14:51:02] <abcminiuser> Lame
[14:52:02] <Landon> not as sly as a oneliner
[14:52:07] <specing> abcminiuser: SCons
[14:52:13] <Landon> but I'm wary of using redirection and piping
[14:52:32] <abcminiuser> Why the hell doesn't it have proper return codes - or better yet a config option for FAIL_ON_WARNINGS
[14:53:18] <Steffanx> Why someone wants to exit on a warning? ?! :P
[14:53:50] <Steffanx> And what specing said
[14:54:14] <abcminiuser> I need this to work in a WinAVR compatible makefile
[14:54:30] <abcminiuser> &^%* I got it to do the exact opposite of what I want
[14:54:40] <abcminiuser> But negating the logic doesn't seem to work
[14:54:41] <Steffanx> exit on no warning?
[14:54:51] <abcminiuser> Yeah
[14:54:54] <Steffanx> :D
[14:54:54] <abcminiuser> This is what I have:
[14:54:56] <abcminiuser> doxygen - 2>&1 | grep "warning" || exit 1
[14:55:13] <abcminiuser> That does the opposite, but using grep -v or chanign || to && doesn't negate it
[14:57:58] <Landon> so is the problem with the || ?
[15:00:12] <abcminiuser> I've no idea :(
[15:00:14] <abcminiuser> Screw it
[15:01:30] <Steffanx> Can't you use doxygen > grep "warning" && exit 1 ?
[15:02:02] <Steffanx> nvm :P
[15:02:57] <Steffanx> My test failed
[15:03:35] <grummund> "exit 1" is redundant in a makefile
[15:08:43] <abcminiuser> Gotta restart, Windows is derped
[15:09:27] <grummund> ! doxygen - 2>&1 | grep "warning"
[15:11:34] <abcminiuser> Or not, Firefox was the screwed one
[15:13:10] <grummund> ~$ ! echo -e 'error: abcminiuser\nmakefile spaghetti' | grep warning; echo $?
[15:13:11] <grummund> 0
[15:13:11] <grummund> ~$ ! echo -e 'warning: abcminiuser\nmakefile spaghetti' | grep warning; echo $?
[15:13:11] <grummund> warning: abcminiuser
[15:13:11] <grummund> 1
[15:16:37] <abcminiuser> grummund, doesn't work in make for some reason
[15:16:41] <abcminiuser> SO. ANGRY
[15:19:29] <abcminiuser> Oh thank christ
[15:19:31] <abcminiuser> This works
[15:19:31] <abcminiuser> @if ( ( cat Doxygen.conf ; echo "PROJECT_NUMBER=`grep LUFA_VERSION_STRING Version.h | cut -d'"' -f2`" ) | doxygen - 2>&1 | grep "warning" ;); then \
[15:19:31] <abcminiuser> echo " ERROR: Doxygen documentation has warnings!"; \
[15:19:31] <abcminiuser> exit 1; \
[15:19:33] <abcminiuser> fi;
[15:25:28] <grummund> why so angry?
[15:26:07] <Steffanx> abcminiuser doesn't like warnings
[15:27:09] <abcminiuser> grummund, I want to make sure when I do builds I'm forced to fix everythin
[15:27:40] <abcminiuser> Now I can do a make all && make doxygen && make -C BuildTests && make -C Maintenance check-release
[15:27:50] <abcminiuser> Which will validate everything
[15:28:29] <grummund> that makes you angry?
[15:28:53] <abcminiuser> No, that makes me happy
[15:28:58] <abcminiuser> It not working makes me angry
[15:29:31] <grummund> abcminiuser is happy now?
[15:29:35] <Steffanx> Stresssssss
[15:30:29] <grummund> make abcminiuser -DHAPPY
[15:32:02] <abcminiuser> My god, I now have ONE COMMAND TO RULE THEM ALL
[15:32:07] <abcminiuser> And to melt my computer :P
[15:53:39] <Tom_itx> awesome
[16:15:29] <OndraSter_> one command to rule them all?
[16:15:35] <OndraSter_> Skynet> start
[16:15:36] <OndraSter_> ?
[16:24:30] <asteve> OndraSter_: rm -rf /
[16:24:41] <asteve> or rm -rf /* if you're on solaris
[16:36:46] <OndraSter_> actually
[16:36:48] <OndraSter_> I am on windows :P
[16:44:02] <OndraSter_> aste
[16:44:05] <OndraSter_> oh he's gone
[16:47:00] <dirty_d> i need a bigger man-cave
[16:51:15] <Tom_itx> you got a cave?
[16:53:01] <dirty_d> its just an extra room, but i like to pretend it is
[17:00:18] <OndraSter_> you didn't build fortresses when you were young?
[17:00:20] <OndraSter_> or caves?
[17:05:15] <dirty_d> tree houses
[17:10:53] <OndraSter_> no tree houses here
[17:10:56] <OndraSter_> we had only one tree
[17:10:58] <OndraSter_> and it was rather.. big
[17:14:56] <dirty_d> woohoo, no more hacksawing
[17:38:58] <dirty_d> almost done with the drilling
[17:39:00] <dirty_d> http://cisweb.bristolcc.edu/~klabs/quadframe.jpg
[17:39:09] <dirty_d> damn battery died
[20:29:37] <rue_house> that looks like aluminum
[20:30:04] <rue_house> tile/carpet transition strip is much more like airfoil
[20:30:12] <rue_house> er brain failure
[20:30:55] <rue_house> http://img.diynetwork.com/DIY/2003/11/17/dtil103_2fe_lg.jpg
[20:34:04] <rue_house> http://hhmosaics.com/files/2011/08/Frame_1185.jpg
[20:34:36] <rue_house> http://uk.all.biz/img/uk/catalog/55559.jpeg
[20:34:44] * Tom_itx searches for an avr in there
[20:36:34] <rue_house> it was in reply to dirty_d's airframe
[20:37:20] <rue_house> but I notice its not here anymore
