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[00:56:29] <cyanide> hello folks
[01:07:10] <Roklobsta> hello
[01:10:48] <Casper> olleh
[03:15:55] <nofxx> basically the mega -> xmega diff is more uart and ext interrupts, right?
[03:17:18] <mrfrenzy> faster cpu, more adcs, etc etc
[03:17:57] <nofxx> mrfrenzy, on yea... and PWM...
[03:18:41] <nofxx> I'm comparing ATmega32U4 and the ATxmega32A4 for a usb project... really just need good usb support and a few adc and output... I'll go with the cheaper
[03:19:54] <nofxx> http://www.mattairtech.com/index.php/mt-x4-hb.html
[03:20:00] <nofxx> looks nice tho
[03:21:27] <nofxx> should be a really naive question but why the 32.768KHz crystal is so common?
[03:21:40] <nofxx> just a simple application I can make a mental image heh
[03:22:54] <ureif> nofxx: what's the 16th root of 32768 ?
[03:26:49] <nofxx> ureif, was trying to double check guess my math is off.... 1.91... ? don't ring a bell
[03:26:57] <ureif> sorry, 15th root
[03:26:58] <ureif> :p
[03:27:08] <nofxx> ureif, nice and round
[03:27:19] <ureif> :)
[03:27:59] <mrfrenzy> also there is the 2.048V voltage reference
[03:28:10] <ureif> a binary divider is a trivial circuit. cascade 15 of them and you get a 1 second pulse.
[03:28:29] <ureif> very useful in analog wall clocks etc where you don't have a lot of complicated electronics.
[03:29:37] <nofxx> ureif, nice, thank you
[03:34:24] <mitsakos> hello there, i have a question for avr studio 5. Is there a button to both build and burn the code?
[04:22:42] <nofxx> LUFA lack of USB Host Mode support in atxmega is purely a software issue? I mean, the hw is clearly superior on a atmegax32 than at90usb...
[04:23:45] <Roklobsta> I suggest you take it up with abcminiuser. He wrote LUFA.
[05:08:30] <ziph> nofxx: abcminiuser is working on non AVR8 chips at the moment.
[05:11:07] <ziph> And 32.768KHz comes from the early digital watches.
[06:42:07] <inflex> mmm... finally almost finished all my backorders
[06:42:18] <inflex> will be so glad when this is all over
[06:46:46] <ziph> You're quitting and becoming a plumber?
[06:47:11] <inflex> not quite... worse actually... PC fixer, Windows repairman *cringe*
[06:47:22] <inflex> still it's good for $50~$150/day cash in hand.
[06:47:26] <ziph> I have friends that do that.
[06:47:45] <ziph> They're probably worth mid 7 figures from doing it.
[06:47:47] <inflex> IT's good business so long as you have a reasonable sized population to draw from
[06:48:19] <inflex> and so long as you don't overcommit - I stay strictly at one job concurrently, maybe one on the backburner waiting for a replacement part
[06:48:41] <inflex> Mostly I organise to get the person's machine overnight, lets me give it a good clean and get all the updates installed.
[06:48:41] <ziph> Why is having more than one job a problem?
[06:48:55] <inflex> because invariably hiccups occur and you start overrunning on schedule.
[06:49:36] <inflex> like the other day, it took 2 days to sort out the Win7 update problem.
[06:49:40] <ziph> Wouldn't $500 a day also be more typical?
[06:50:14] <inflex> not with the population level around here. I'm looking to work at $200/day long-term
[06:50:31] <inflex> that way I'm not overrun, gives me time to do other things (publishing) but it also keeps a decent income
[06:51:01] <inflex> I do want to get to the point whereI have a small level of buffer stock of common items, like HDDs and memory.
[06:51:27] <ziph> You're crook?
[06:52:06] <ziph> Or are the personal health reasons that you're concerned that running the business will cause you to harm yourself? ;)
[06:53:02] <inflex> ziph: I am still suffering a level of health problems, yes
[06:53:11] <ziph> inflex: :(
[06:53:20] <ziph> inflex: I hope that all works out.
[06:53:24] <inflex> but it's getting better - I just have to make sure I don't lead myself down the bad path again
[06:54:15] <ziph> Sounds like the perfect time to sell everything and hitch down to Tas. ;)
[06:54:17] <inflex> getting the electronics out of the "backlog" phase is the next bit to conquor , if I can get up right tomorrow and attack it, it should be all clear. Beyond that I can take a more relaxed stance and only put up for sale what I have already manufactured; can be as simple as 10 units a week, which will provide an overnight ~$300
[06:54:35] <inflex> ziph: yes, sure am thinking of it; need the cash surplus though, or at least -some- liquidity.
[06:55:13] <ziph> The rental market should be easy.
[06:55:14] <inflex> winding down the NQRC/electronics is a big helper for being able to move, because I'll no longer need the workshop and 3rd office
[06:55:19] <Tom_itx> i try not to let the backlogs get me
[06:55:32] <inflex> Tom_itx: good luck with it, hope you do have a stronger mind than mine for that.
[06:55:38] <inflex> backlogs crushed me.
[06:56:04] <Tom_itx> i simply pull it off the site when i don't have any made and ready to ship
[06:56:20] <inflex> it was always GREAT seeing those sales come in... but the reality of knowing you'd spend the next few weeks doing the monotonous P&P just haunted me
[06:56:35] <Tom_itx> maybe not the best thing to do but that's just how it is
[06:56:59] <inflex> Tom_itx: I think the crux is, find what works for "you"
[06:57:10] <inflex> certainly for me the whole "build on demand" just did NOT work.
[06:57:31] <inflex> the more pending (paid) demand, the harder it was.
[06:57:37] <Tom_itx> i think it would add undue pressure
[06:58:34] <inflex> Anyhow, I've ordered enough parts for another 25 units of the BACs (only thing I'm building), so that's a about $600 profit
[06:59:20] <inflex> I've got enough PCBs for 120 more
[06:59:38] <inflex> Now at least I don't have to order anything overseas, but still get a reasonable BOM
[06:59:47] <inflex> actually, I should check the BOM for this one
[07:03:37] <inflex> $4.03 BOM on the actual parts
[07:03:43] <ziph> Crap, I need to use a 204 pin QFP.
[07:04:06] <inflex> wth... nasty big chip
[07:04:38] <ziph> Yeah.
[07:04:47] <ziph> I always start these things thinking I'll have heaps of spare pins...
[07:05:04] <inflex> heh
[07:09:25] <inflex> oka, updated with latest prices.. $3.66 BOM
[07:09:37] <inflex> That's pretty good, it's a $25 rrp
[07:10:02] <inflex> though I ignore the packaging, handling costs ( adds about another $1 to BOM )
[07:10:09] <dirty_d> what is it?
[07:10:16] <inflex> dirty_d: magic stuff
[07:10:32] <inflex> dirty_d: a regulator I manufacture
[07:10:40] <dirty_d> cool
[07:11:34] <inflex> the trouble with $20~$30 products is that it's so cost sensitive because of the massive human labour cost factor, 10 minutes per unit total means you're adding another $2~$3 for skilled labour
[07:12:08] <inflex> so, at the end of the day, you could say, it's $10 per unit to produce and handle
[07:12:39] <dirty_d> not using pick and place?
[07:12:47] <inflex> and you make $15 profit, which isn't too bad
[07:13:09] <inflex> dirty_d: alas no, I'd love a P&P machine, though to be honest, the wire looming, testing, packing are the more annoying parts
[07:13:19] <dirty_d> ahh
[07:13:40] <dirty_d> i mean have it done in china, that would be more expensive than what youre doing now?
[07:13:42] <inflex> because it's such a tiny device, looming it up is fiddly, then you have to go through the testing so that people don't send it back
[07:14:02] <inflex> I think if I went to China I could probaby get them done for ~$6/unit in 500 lots.
[07:14:58] <inflex> the trick is getting enough upfront to do the 500 units. I'd probably consider selling then for $18/unit, however my market is quite small, because it's a niche product
[07:15:13] <dirty_d> where are you selling them?
[07:15:13] <inflex> and people are paying $25/unit without major complaint
[07:15:45] <ziph> How do you do the testing?
[07:15:47] <inflex> dirty_d: because people asked for them and they do sell about 30 units/mth
[07:15:56] <inflex> dirty_d: oh, on my online store
[07:16:01] <inflex> (sorry, I read that as "why")
[07:16:48] <inflex> ziph: units have to be plugged into a resistive load, then up to a meter, check that the voltage reads the right amount, check that it doesn't collapse uner the load, make sure it produces the right level of audio output (85dB+) and make sure the LED blinks the right pattern
[07:17:35] <inflex> if I had a spare $3k, I'd likely organise someone in China/GoldPhoenix to do the batch
[07:17:42] <ziph> Ever looked into test fixtures?
[07:17:59] <inflex> they'll likely bitch at me though, because to attain the compact size I violate a lot of "good principles"
[07:18:33] <dirty_d> inflex, whats your url?
[07:18:34] <inflex> ziph: yes, I did build up a couple but in the end it was just as intensive to the manual process
[07:18:37] <inflex> dirty_d:
http://nqrc.com
[07:20:35] <inflex> Tom_itx: having so many products in my range was also killing me - couldn't afford to have them all build and ready, would have cost a fortune.
[07:20:41] <dirty_d> inflex, ahh neat rc stuff, im working on a quadcopter control board right now
[07:20:56] <inflex> dirty_d: nice nice - based on an existing design or something completely from scratch?
[07:21:10] <dirty_d> from scratch
[07:21:24] <dirty_d> using an atxmega32a4u and a mpu-6050 imu
[07:21:25] <inflex> what sensor are you going to use ?
[07:21:31] <inflex> ah yep, a lot of ppl using the 6050
[07:21:39] <dirty_d> just a personal project, i think it would be too expensive to sell
[07:21:44] <dirty_d> the 6050 is $15
[07:21:49] <dirty_d> but its very good
[07:21:55] <inflex> yep, esp with HobbyKing putting out their own boards
[07:22:13] * inflex is happy to stick with boring simple regulator units
[07:22:22] <inflex> a lot less likely to go wrong and far less chance of recalls :D
[07:23:01] <ziph> Ever had anyone complain that you crashed their plane? :)
[07:23:09] <inflex> it's been inferred.
[07:23:13] <dirty_d> yea
[07:23:15] <inflex> actually, yes
[07:23:39] <inflex> I had a firmware fault on a release of the BAC units, the low-voltage alarm didn't trigger.
[07:23:54] <inflex> I put out a recall notice - but not everyone got it
[07:23:55] <ziph> Oh, so you did actually crash someone's plane? :)
[07:24:11] <inflex> got a very less-than-pleased email from a couple of ppl.
[07:24:31] <dirty_d> i gotta get ot work
[07:24:32] <dirty_d> later
[07:24:43] <inflex> I think that was a big turning point for me - from there I started closing NQRC down more rapidly
[07:25:00] <inflex> a firmware fault like that should never have made it to public, but it did.
[07:26:00] <inflex> the reason it made it was because when I test the LV detect, I was /starting/ the BAC with the low-voltage, rather than starting with normal and going low
[07:26:21] <inflex> anyhow, so the testing wasn't catching it... and yep, that caused a lot of pain.
[07:26:31] <ziph> I wouldn't do what you do because I'd be concerned about causing personal injury. :)
[07:27:14] <inflex> fortunately with R/C, it's a bit of an accepted thing that stuff goes "wrong"
[07:27:31] <inflex> you try not to push it too much, but it happens a lot
[07:28:01] <inflex> nothing unusual about ESCs burning up, motors throwing winds out of the stator, servos fusing, receivers "rebooting" etc
[07:28:19] <inflex> even groups like JR, Futaba etc all have plenty of "screwed up" events.
[07:28:28] <inflex> (esp with the 2.4GHz developments)
[07:32:56] <ziph> Yay, now I'm back to using every IO pin on a QFP144.
[07:33:53] <specing> :O
[07:34:12] <ziph> Although at this point the QFP204 would probably make the layout simpler.
[07:34:21] <inflex> yes,I can imagine so
[07:34:31] <inflex> found that as you approach 100% pin utilisation the routing goes insane
[07:34:41] <ziph> Yeah.
[07:34:58] <ziph> Particularly if you want things like bypass caps on the many, many supply pins. :)
[07:35:40] <inflex> yep :D
[07:35:49] <inflex> going to go watch a movie now, settle me down a bit
[07:35:56] <ziph> Although I could do 6 layer for this one...
[07:36:04] <inflex> oooof
[07:36:17] * inflex notes that Australia seemed to deliberately lose the cricket tonight
[07:36:45] <agile_aardvark> cricket. lol. :D
[07:37:52] <inflex> It's all a ploy - to ensure the 3rd final is a sellout and both teams get more $
[07:38:12] <agile_aardvark> i suspect that with many sports nowadays
[07:38:48] <ziph> Or just good old fashion match fixing. ;)
[07:39:06] <RikusW> heh
[07:41:13] <ziph> Uh, ok.
[07:41:33] <ziph> The pinout table has pins in it that aren't on any of the packages.
[07:49:58] <jadew> my msop packaged wave generator chip just arrived, should have bought a freaking microscope too
[07:51:09] <jadew> I don't think it can survive desoldering, if I'll solder it on a msop to dip to test it on a breadboard
[07:51:55] <ziph> They can survive desoldering.
[07:52:25] <ziph> If you just have a soldering iron use the thin wire under the pins tricks.
[07:52:33] <jadew> I have a feeling that I'll bend the pins or... destroy it some way
[07:53:06] <ziph> abcminiuser: G'day/
[07:53:13] <jadew> hmm, I remember seeing a video about that, will have to look into it
[07:53:16] <abcminiuser> Ahoy
[07:53:19] <ziph> abcminiuser: Someone was asking about XMEGA host support in LUFA before.
[07:53:29] <abcminiuser> ziph, just got it working this morning
[07:53:37] <ziph> Heh.
[07:53:56] <ziph> nofxx: Ping ^
[07:54:53] <RikusW> jadew: heatgun or hot air ?
[07:55:28] <jadew> wouldn't that ruin it?
[07:55:54] <jadew> I tried to desolder something a couple of days ago with a heatgun and the PCB parctically melted
[07:56:10] <ziph> That was too hot then. :)
[07:56:27] <ziph> Stick a thermocouple on it.
[07:56:36] <jadew> good idea
[07:57:00] <ziph> And let it soak/preheat a bit at a much lower temperature first.
[07:57:12] <RikusW> jadew: does your heatgun have power control ?
[07:57:19] <RikusW> if not use the distance from pcb
[07:57:21] <jadew> RikusW, only 2 levels
[07:57:34] <RikusW> mine got 2 + power control
[07:57:55] <RikusW> start further away to allow it to heat up gradually
[07:58:04] <jadew> I see
[07:58:26] <jadew> oh well, if I ruin it this project will have to wait till my next order
[07:58:32] <RikusW> level 1 should be enough
[07:58:44] <RikusW> how many pins on that chip ?
[07:58:51] <jadew> going to be a shitty wave generator anyway, my clock source is off by a few thousands khz
[07:59:02] <jadew> 10 pins
[07:59:13] <ziph> Buy some cheap 4000 series IC's in the same package for practice if you've got something expensive.
[07:59:31] <jadew> good idea ziph
[07:59:39] <RikusW> you could solder a thickish copper wire to all pins
[07:59:39] <ziph> Although that denies you the chance to learn about recovering from disasters. ;)
[07:59:49] <RikusW> then heat it all up and slide it off the pads
[08:00:18] <RikusW> what the pin pitch on that ?
[08:00:23] <jadew> 0.5mm
[08:00:24] <ziph> 0.65
[08:00:34] <ziph> 0.5 on MSOP?
[08:00:37] <jadew> yeah
[08:01:12] <jadew> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/packages/PKG_PDF/MSOP(RM)/RM_10.pdf
[08:01:39] <ziph> Oh, I thought it was an 8 pin for some reason.
[08:02:18] <ziph> Get a leadless package, then you don't have to worry about breaking them off. ;)
[08:02:26] <jadew> heh
[08:02:51] <RikusW> on such a tiny package copper wire + solder should work
[08:03:23] <jadew> and for soldering? I guess I'll have to use some ductape to hold it in place
[08:03:39] <RikusW> don't you have tweezers ?
[08:03:47] <RikusW> and liquid flux
[08:03:58] <ziph> Nah, tack it down with the corner pins.
[08:04:29] <ziph> On a HASL board you just hold it in place and touch the corner pins with the iron.
[08:04:32] <jadew> I'm almost tempted to just build the pcb and see if the final thing works, but I don't know if it will work with my clock source
[08:04:43] <ziph> Then give it a gentle nudge to make sure it's soldered and do the rest.
[08:04:59] <RikusW> SO8 is super easy to solder :)
[08:05:17] <RikusW> and fairly easy to remove too
[08:05:54] <jadew> that's the one with 1+ mm between the pins?
[08:06:07] <RikusW> another way is to heat al pins on one side and gently lift it a little with a blade
[08:06:15] <RikusW> 50mil /1.25mm
[08:06:19] <jadew> nice
[08:06:28] <RikusW> and then do the same on the other side
[08:06:40] <ziph> You can pull pads off doing that though.
[08:06:55] <RikusW> unfortunately yes...
[08:07:23] <jadew> you know, I wouldn't have to desolder it if I knew that my clock will work
[08:07:49] <jadew> I'll post a photo of the wave, maybe you guys have an opinion
[08:08:01] <ziph> What clock are you using?
[08:08:19] <jadew> build an oscillator around a 25Mhz crystal
[08:08:28] <jadew> *built
[08:09:04] <ziph> You know you get those in tiny $1 tins all ready, right? :)
[08:09:26] <jadew> I didn't know when I made the order :)
[08:10:04] <jadew> good learning experience thho
[08:10:23] <ziph> Hang around
http://www.reddit.com/r/nicechips
[08:10:41] <ziph> It's one good way to see what's out there.
[08:11:01] <ziph> The other is putting a paper Digikey catalog in your bathroom/WC. ;)
[08:11:07] <jadew> nice list
[08:12:30] <jadew> http://imagebin.org/202201
[08:12:41] <jadew> http://imagebin.org/202202
[08:13:50] <jadew> the datasheet doesn't say much about how the clock should be
[08:15:11] <jadew> I guess the fact that I was able to run an AVR off of it, doesn't mean anything, does it?
[08:15:35] <ziph> The XTAL1 input of an AVR normally looks much the same.
[08:17:03] <ziph> By the way, you should try RF oscillator design some time, it's actually hard to get one with harmonics as low as yours. ;)
[08:17:08] <jadew> ok, gonna try to build the thing and hope it'll work, if it doesn't I'll have to take the risk of desoldering it :)
[08:18:23] <ziph> jadew: You could put a driver close to the oscillator to clean it up and make sure it isn't loaded down.
[08:19:31] <jadew> what's a driver?
[08:19:48] <ziph> A logic buffer..
[08:19:51] <jadew> ah
[08:20:24] <jadew> hmm, wonder if I have one that can handle the speed
[08:21:29] <ziph> It's hard to buy them with > 5ns rise times. ;)
[08:23:03] <jadew> yeah, I just noticed the one I have has a 20ns rise / volt
[08:23:47] <jadew> and my signal has a 15ns rise time
[10:57:37] <CapnKernel> What happened, no-one talking?
[10:57:37] <nofxx> ziph, thank you!
[10:57:43] <CapnKernel> (And I'm going to bed soon)
[10:57:58] <ziph> nofxx: Thank abcminiuser. :)
[10:58:19] <nofxx> ziph, I was planning a nicer 'thank you' for him ;)
[10:58:22] <ziph> nofxx: He'd probably appreciate it if you checked it out of SVN and gave it a whirl and e-mailed him feedback.
[10:58:58] <nofxx> ziph, would do it with the most pleasure, but mine xmegas are on the mail right now , heh
[10:59:33] <ziph> nofxx: You're still likely to get them before he does the next release.
[11:01:31] <nofxx> ziph, cool.. cloning
[11:01:35] <nofxx> once I remember how to use git svn
[11:01:42] <ziph> :)
[11:01:50] <ziph> I think there's both types of repository.
[13:22:13] <ureif> !thislog
[13:22:27] <ureif> !thislog
[13:22:27] <tobbor> This one:
http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2012-03-06.html
[13:24:37] <Steffanx> !thislog
[13:25:05] <ureif> tobbor is a bit hard of hearing. you have to repeat yourself.
[13:26:28] <Steffanx> !thislog
[13:26:28] <tobbor> This one:
http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2012-03-06.html
[13:26:30] <Steffanx> :D
[13:26:37] <specing> Its just rue pulling its strings behind
[13:26:39] <Steffanx> CANUCK
[13:26:39] <tobbor> Yankie.
[13:26:41] <specing> CANUCK
[13:26:41] <tobbor> Yankie.
[13:26:42] <specing> :D
[13:30:52] <RikusW> stop teasing the bots :-P
[13:31:47] <Steffanx> CANUCK
[13:31:47] <tobbor> yankie, yankie, yankie.
[13:31:48] <SmashCat> Hi - anyone know of a working port of NewSoftSerial for an ATTiny85 ?
[13:32:15] <Steffanx> NewSoftSerial .. sounds like something bad for arduino
[13:32:21] <specing> Whats thet?
[13:32:54] <SmashCat> Or any lib really that gives serial support for an ATTiny. All I've found are half-finished or broken libs
[13:33:08] <specing> my OldSoftSerial is 20 lines of halfworking code :D
[13:33:12] <specing> actually 40
[13:33:37] <specing> Im going to write it in pure ASM one day.. when I get time.. if I get time... jk :D
[13:35:24] * specing has an attiny45
[13:35:26] <SmashCat> Hmm, I only need to recv from something at 9600bps. Bit surprised nobody has any code up for that! Guess I'll have to write it then...
[13:35:33] <RikusW> SmashCat: there is some avr appnotes for that too
[13:37:07] <RikusW> check out appnotes AVR304 and AVR305
[13:37:30] <SmashCat> RikusW: appnotes?
[13:37:36] <RikusW> AVR305 even works on at90s1200
[13:37:54] <RikusW> atmel give you a pdf and some sample source
[13:38:08] <RikusW> got to the atmel website and search for AVR305
[13:38:09] <SmashCat> RikusW: Ah I see, thanks
[13:38:33] <RikusW> application notes
[13:50:18] <SmashCat> hmm - don't fancy rewriting this all in asm - think I'll drop using na ATTiny85 and just use an ATMega328 - bit of a waste as I only need 2 pins and 2k of code, but it'll save time and the client can pay for them all ;-)
[13:51:22] <RikusW> t2313 got a uart
[13:51:41] <SmashCat> Rikus: Yes, not quite enough flash on that
[13:51:58] <RikusW> t4313 ?
[13:52:00] <RikusW> 4kb
[13:52:36] <SmashCat> Rickus: Well I have about 100 each of ATTiny85's, ATTiny2313's and ATMega328's here. So really wanted to use one of those
[13:53:34] * RikusW have about 100 m32u2 here....
[13:54:20] <RikusW> soft uart for 9600 shouldn't be too hard
[13:54:48] <SmashCat> Rickus: My own fault - I wrongly assumed someone would have used an ATTiny85 with a software serial implementation before now (prototyped on Arduino) - but nobody has - or at least nobody has made a working lib public for it
[13:55:45] <cyanide> MIITCH
[13:56:05] <cyanide> CapnKernel, there?
[14:06:32] <abcminiuser_> FFS, &%$*&ing phone companies
[14:07:09] <Steffanx> poor abcminiuser_
[14:07:17] <abcminiuser_> "Hey, you guys lied about not charging me, please cancel my account" - "Ok, it's done, also since we cancelled it we didn't take out that last charge, so now you're overdue and we'll take out more money"
[14:24:12] <cyanide> you live in scandinavia right?
[14:25:11] <Steffanx> Oops abcminiuser_
[14:25:36] <Steffanx> He does cyanide
[14:25:54] <cyanide> nice
[14:26:01] <cyanide> i have a friend in norway who makes music
[14:26:30] <cyanide> http://www.last.fm/music/Athome+Project
[14:26:30] <Steffanx> You are from india?
[14:26:38] <Steffanx> (your ip says so)
[14:27:13] <cyanide> yes
[14:27:24] <Steffanx> How's india nowadays?
[14:27:34] <cyanide> as usual. shitty
[14:29:55] <cyanide> CapnKernel has sent me components without taking money for it lol. he's usually active right now; i think he's gone to sleep today
[14:32:44] <mrfrenzy> I'm waiting for my quote
[14:49:52] <cyanide> he's got some visa issues
[14:50:02] <cyanide> my components were boxed up and ready pretty much
[14:52:23] <specing> Guess he is super busy
[14:53:17] <abcminiuser_> Back
[14:53:21] <Steffanx> Front
[14:53:24] <abcminiuser_> IRC client derped
[14:53:26] <specing> Rear
[14:53:38] <abcminiuser_> cyanide, yeah Norway at the moment
[14:53:42] <abcminiuser_> Moved from Aus
[14:55:18] <cyanide> nice place to live, apart from the temperatures lol
[14:57:48] <abcminiuser_> 5C today
[14:58:04] <cyanide> heh
[14:58:06] <cyanide> summer
[15:26:20] <Tom_itx> so abcminiuser_ other than the phone co and irc in general, how's norway?
[15:28:20] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, warm now
[15:28:28] <abcminiuser_> It's wierd, seeing the sun here
[15:28:31] <abcminiuser_> And very little snow
[15:28:34] <Tom_itx> been damn windy here all day
[15:28:42] <Tom_itx> like 45mph
[15:29:17] <vectory> summers can be warm in .no i hear
[15:29:29] <vectory> who woulda thunk so
[15:29:31] <Tom_itx> Outdoor: 32.0 (F) / 0.0 (C)
[15:29:31] <Tom_itx> Indoor: 32.0 (F) / 0.0 (C)
[15:29:34] <Tom_itx> woops
[15:29:51] <Tom_itx> i forgot that 5v supply supplied power to those too
[15:30:18] <vectory> those temperature sensors?
[15:30:38] <Tom_itx> yep
[15:30:47] <Tom_itx> Temp: 70.0 F (21.1 C)
[15:32:04] <OndraSter> measuring voltage drop on MOSFET with DC settings on your vmeter when the MOSFET is switched on and off at some high frequency IS NOT THE BRIGHTEST IDEA
[15:32:09] <OndraSter> I didn't realize that
[15:32:17] <OndraSter> and started soldering different parts before I realized my mistake :(
[15:32:18] <OndraSter> lol
[15:56:00] <OndraSter> hah
[15:56:01] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/1FFy5
[15:56:07] <OndraSter> I have AVR Dragon
[15:56:11] <OndraSter> not jtagice mkII :P
[15:56:29] <OndraSter> this line has been dumping here for few hours now lol
[15:56:34] <OndraSter> maybe even more than a day!
[15:56:43] <OndraSter> I am now upto line 23250 :D
[16:02:32] <cyanide> ahahaha
[16:02:35] <cyanide> i love this meme
http://www.quickmeme.com/Ordinary-Muslim-Man/
[16:08:23] <cyanide> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36ctit/
[16:08:25] <cyanide> ahahahaha
[16:09:23] <Steffanx> Not funny
[16:09:33] <Steffanx> Most of the meme's aren't funny at all imho
[16:11:50] <cyanide> true
[16:12:29] <cyanide> this one just happened to me though
[17:15:24] <Roklobsta> hmm, i did that the other day, but I am not a stoner.
[17:15:35] <Roklobsta> just sleep deprived
[17:24:49] <learningc> Thanks Roklobsta :)
[17:26:18] <Roklobsta> oh no problem. i hope it might be a good start to get you going
[17:26:40] <Roklobsta> it exposes all of the things you need to consider when making impedance controlled traces
[17:26:50] <Roklobsta> ok, not all but many
[17:27:21] <learningc> it will sure be very useful
[17:27:24] <Tom_itx> Roklobsta, you can sleep when you're dead
[17:27:33] <Tom_itx> sleep is overrated
[17:27:47] <learningc> Tom_itx: it's not called sleep
[17:27:57] <Roklobsta> in practise there was no real way for us to measure things like internal track width, spacing and as for measuring the impedance, oh forget it
[17:27:59] <Tom_itx> yes it is
[17:28:23] <learningc> Tom_itx: when you are dead, it's eternal rest
[17:28:33] <Roklobsta> tom
[17:28:33] <Roklobsta> tom_itx: man, did we have a discussion about those exact sleep memes in a puib once? I have always said the same thing.
[17:30:38] <Tom_itx> ok, since i'm awake now what should i do?
[17:30:48] <Tom_itx> oh.
[17:30:53] <Tom_itx> i was reading an article
[17:32:00] <Roklobsta> learning: what do you need to make that has impedance control?
[17:32:27] <Tom_itx> no
[17:32:43] <Tom_itx> mmm i read that wrong
[17:32:48] <Tom_itx> i must still be sleeping
[17:32:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.ubasics.com/adam/electronics/doc/phasecon.shtml
[17:33:18] <Roklobsta> learningc: the PCI bus need impedance control because the signals are sent out at 1.5V, reflect off the end of the bus and double to 3V then the clock signal transitions.
[17:34:01] <Tom_itx> really?
[17:47:42] <Tom_itx> http://sound.westhost.com/appnotes/an005.htm
[17:47:45] <learningc> Roklobsta: the voltage doubles?
[17:48:43] <learningc> Roklobsta: I'm not sure if I need impedance control. I'll route some ARM microcontrollers
[17:48:54] <Tom_itx> you do
[17:49:29] <learningc> Tom_itx: really?
[18:53:06] <molavy> hi
[18:53:06] <tobbor> hi molavy.
[18:53:43] <molavy> how can i use avrude on linux with sample electronic programmer
[18:53:45] <molavy> ?
[18:55:03] <molavy> any idea?
[18:56:34] <molavy> there is no idea?
[18:59:42] <Kevin`> sample?
[19:00:12] <Kevin`> avrdude -cdragon_isp -Pusb -patmeta328p -U flash:w:foo.hex
[19:00:31] <Kevin`> +spelling
[19:03:54] <jadew> hey guys, on dealextreme.com do I have to do anything else beside paying so my order gets delivered?
[19:04:06] <jadew> I placed it 2 days ago and it didn't get shipped yet
[19:10:27] <molavy> that return avrdude: ser_open(): can't set attributes for device "/dev/parport0": Inappropriate ioctl for device
[19:10:43] <molavy> i use this command
[19:10:44] <molavy> avrdude -c dragon_isp -p m32
[19:10:59] <Kevin`> -Pusb
[19:12:04] <molavy> that is home made programmer using parallel
[19:12:14] <Kevin`> a homemade programmer is not an avr dragon
[19:12:16] <Kevin`> pick the right one
[19:13:08] <jadew> you probably need to create a new entry in the config file
[19:13:20] <jadew> I think there's even an example there, for paralel port programmers
[19:13:33] <molavy> but on bascom i use sample electronics programmer and it work
[19:14:16] <Kevin`> molavy: you need to tell avrdude what type of programming you are using
[19:14:22] <Kevin`> what type of programmer
[19:17:13] <Roklobsta> damnit random BSoD
[19:17:19] <molavy> this :
http://www.dontronics.com/dt006_programming.html
[19:17:44] <Roklobsta> learningc: for AVR work you don't need impedance control
[19:18:10] <Roklobsta> learningc: yeah, the voltage doubles on old style PCI busses. It has to in order to work
[19:18:42] <Roklobsta> what sample programmer?
[19:18:47] <Roklobsta> molavy...
[19:18:55] <Kevin`> molavy:
http://www.nongnu.org/avrdude/user-manual/avrdude.html
[19:19:38] <Kevin`> molavy: actually, that doesn't look useful. look at the config file for one of the existing parallel port definitions, there's like 10 of them
[19:19:39] <molavy> that is i really made :
http://www.dontronics.com/graphics/runavr2.gif
[19:19:45] <Roklobsta> molavy: get a C232HM cable from FTDI/Glyn. Couldn't be simpler. see helix.air.net.au
[19:20:22] <Kevin`> Roklobsta: the parallel port adapter might actually be faster than that, lower latency
[19:20:32] <Kevin`> also, he already has it
[19:21:10] <Roklobsta> kevin: the FTDI chips are 480Mbit USb and are fast. I can program and verify a 128KB AVR1280 in 4 seconds
[19:21:28] <Kevin`> Roklobsta: the 480mbit part isn't important at all for this
[19:21:58] <Kevin`> it's nice for use as a jtag adapter sometimes though
[19:22:09] <Roklobsta> i have done parallel port SPI bit banging and it seems to top out at 600,000 ops/sec.
[19:22:42] <Roklobsta> and the CPU maxes out on I/O waits
[19:23:06] <Kevin`> Roklobsta: that's still only a few seconds for a 128kb chip
[19:23:10] <Roklobsta> molavy: make sure you use a proper parallel port. USB/Parallel i don't think will work
[19:23:41] <Kevin`> some usb parallel devices will work, but performance will be unbelievably horrible
[19:23:53] <Kevin`> because you have to set each bit with a usb transaction
[19:23:57] <Roklobsta> ew
[19:32:34] <Tom_itx> jadew, dealextreme just collects money, they never really ship anything
[19:36:57] <Tom_itx> molavy, the programmer is probably a stk200
[20:36:58] -moorcock.freenode.net:#avr- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff:
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
