Back
[00:14:19] <theBear> how about yer own dds with 74 series counters and some eeproms and logic ? eh eh ?
[00:16:16] <rue_bed> dds?
[00:16:29] <rue_bed> digital delay system?
[00:16:41] <theBear> digital something synth
[00:21:50] <nevyn> direct digital synthisys
[00:36:32] <theBear> that's the one
[00:37:04] <nevyn> I think I got an i and a y round the wrong way
[00:37:48] <theBear> maybe, that's a tricky word like err, rythm ?
[00:43:16] <nevyn> yeah
[00:49:17] <Roklobsta> er, no DDS for me is double ding dong.
[00:49:30] <Roklobsta> <crash, burn>
[00:51:15] * inflex chucks a spack as his laptop keeps shutting down from overheating
[00:51:34] * nevyn needs to buy a new laptop it's depressing
[00:52:05] <nevyn> I hate buying computer hardware
[00:52:17] * inflex is thinking that his has a mismatch in the alignment of the heatsink
[00:55:20] <Casper> inflex: or cracked thermal paste
[00:56:15] <Casper> laptop are stupidly built: the heatsink on the cpu can easilly move... which result in cracked thermal paste... or as intel call it: TIF
[00:56:24] <nevyn> TIF?
[00:56:45] <Casper> Thermal InterFace
[00:56:51] <nevyn> right.
[00:57:02] <nevyn> that's what I got. about a second after I typed
[01:02:03] <Roklobsta> inflex: you need to move to cooler climes. it's 18C here.
[01:02:39] <Roklobsta> thermal in yo' face
[01:03:00] <Roklobsta> i have an AVR32 EVK1104 for sale. Any takers?
[01:03:36] <Roklobsta> or is 32 bits 4x too much for you guys?
[01:04:35] <Casper> Roklobsta: lucky
[01:05:06] <Casper> -5C here
[01:05:34] <inflex> Casper: nah, the problem is that I opened it all up, replaced the old cracked stuff
[01:05:42] <inflex> Casper: but it would seem I've done a vastly inferior job
[01:06:59] <Roklobsta> inflex: you are not a robot
[01:07:08] <Roklobsta> casper: where is here?
[01:07:29] <Roklobsta> casper: is was 40C for several days last week. not nice.
[01:07:51] <Roklobsta> inflex: is the fan screaming?
[01:12:15] <inflex> Roklobsta: no, not screaming overly, not that I can hear. It is /running/ but certainly not screaming
[01:12:37] <inflex> What is most suckful about this setup is that to get to the CPU, you have to do a full disassembly
[01:13:43] <inflex> I've run the fan and it seems to go okay/fine
[01:14:02] <inflex> I've cleared out all the much that -was- on the inside of the radiator fins
[01:14:11] <inflex> so, in theory it should have now been running _cooler_
[01:14:38] <inflex> The only notable thing I found was that the goop they used on the CPU originally is more like a paste/glue than typical thermal paste
[01:15:02] <inflex> it also had a non-negligable thickness
[01:15:28] * inflex wonders if perhaps he should use a transfer _pad_ rather than paste
[01:15:50] <Roklobsta> do you have the silver good stuff?
[01:16:14] <Roklobsta> most prefitted cpu goo i have seen is hard. i susect that it dries out somehwhat
[01:17:00] <inflex> nope, just got ordinary ole electronics white paste
[01:22:00] <Roklobsta> this is what Inflex has to contend with nowadays.
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/snake-in-computer.shtml
[01:23:13] <inflex> well, just opened up the laptop to check the fan "during operation", it's running fine, can't stop it too easy with your finger
[01:33:29] <Roklobsta> what cpu is iit?
[01:52:09] <inflex> Turion 2GHz dual-core
[01:52:26] <inflex> plenty of airflow going on in there, I can feel it coming out of a lot of the area
[01:53:22] <inflex> even if it's just sitting in BIOS it dies
[01:54:30] <Roklobsta> sounds pretty ill
[01:54:41] <Roklobsta> try pasting again
[01:56:04] <Roklobsta> could be the gpu
[01:56:19] <Roklobsta> gpu and cpu seem to share heat pipe these days
[01:56:35] <Roklobsta> arrrr capn'!
[01:56:58] <inflex> yeah,they do but I'm noticing the heat is really coming up through the keyboard where the CPU is
[01:57:23] <inflex> *shrug* maybe I broke the heatpipe
[01:57:46] <Roklobsta> well maybe
[01:57:59] <Roklobsta> it's only 23c now where you are so it should be fine
[01:58:54] <inflex> Something is causing the CPU to cook over fast... and this is the second CPU in there (same model)
[01:59:28] <Roklobsta> can you for a bios config reset?
[01:59:31] <Roklobsta> force
[01:59:41] <Roklobsta> before it goes cactus?
[02:00:09] <Roklobsta> do laptop mobos have a cmos reset jumper?
[02:01:18] <inflex> maybe... tried loading the defaults and saving, no difference
[02:01:23] * inflex is going through the service manual atm
[02:02:12] <Roklobsta> i opened my laptop the other day and it seems to hav a design where dust doesn't seem to get in.
[02:02:40] <Roklobsta> after 18 months bugger all dust inside it
[02:03:21] <Roklobsta> the older asus likes to swpit out hairballs now and then
[02:04:46] <inflex> This is a HP DV5
[02:04:59] <inflex> they're a decent machine, so I'm rather perplexed as to why it's overheating so fast
[02:09:37] <inflex> I've already bought a new keyboard, a new CPU and now... now I might need a new damned heatsink/cooling setup (another $33)
[02:09:42] <inflex> it's getting a bit costly
[02:09:49] <inflex> oh yes, a new HDD too
[02:10:26] <inflex> just doesn't make sense to me though, it shouldn't be cooking up so damned much
[02:23:55] <scuzzy> HDD's are so flipping expensive at the moment
[02:32:25] <scuzzy> who's tried studio 6?
[02:35:04] <Roklobsta> not me
[02:35:09] <Roklobsta> no need for avr
[02:36:49] <scuzzy> was just wondering
[02:36:54] <scuzzy> I work with ARM's quite a lot
[02:37:06] <scuzzy> and wondered if it came with all the setup code and boot code for their CPU's
[02:37:12] <scuzzy> bootstrap code so to speak
[02:50:06] <Roklobsta> scuzzy: oh arm...
[02:55:16] <inflex> ugh, well I've tried pads, film and now goop, still the laptop overheats in a minute or two
[02:55:35] <inflex> amusingly, judicious amounts of goop/paste without care has lasted the longest
[02:56:14] * inflex genuinely wonders if the heatpipe itself is broken
[03:01:40] <inflex> gnarrr... to spendanother $33 or not
[03:02:23] <Valen> test heatpipe perhaps?
[03:02:53] <inflex> well, the metal plate around the pipe gets very hot
[03:02:59] <inflex> so the heat must be transferring
[03:03:03] <inflex> (from the CPU)
[03:03:19] <Valen> heat pipe should be ~the same temp along its whole length
[03:03:33] <inflex> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=290669665623 <=- this is the asembly
[03:03:58] <inflex> meh, that doesn't work
[03:04:46] <inflex> http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/927/373/249/1273983411375_hz-cnmyalibaba-web2_17174.jpg
[03:05:11] <inflex> right, the portion on the right, the matte grey metal area, that gets to about 60'C (based on burning finger feel)
[03:05:22] <Valen> thats the bit over the CPU yes?
[03:05:26] <inflex> yep
[03:05:37] <inflex> so, from that, I'm deducing that the transfer is working
[03:05:39] <Valen> the other end of the heat pipe should also be ~ that temp
[03:06:01] <Valen> the top right bit getting hot is bad the fin section should heat up in synch with that
[03:06:11] <Valen> heat pipe works to keep everything at the same temp
[03:06:34] <inflex> yeah, well I'll be honest and say that the air coming out of the unit does not match that temp
[03:06:58] <Valen> air wont
[03:07:02] <Valen> it'll be cooler
[03:07:16] <Valen> if you had 60c on the fins i'd expect ~40 on the fins
[03:07:26] <Valen> but the copper should all be 60c
[03:07:54] <inflex> but that's what I'm meaning, it'snot even "warm" air
[03:08:13] <Valen> not sounding promising
[03:09:29] <inflex> ja, considering how hot the heat plate is
[03:10:25] <inflex> but I do have to wonder, how the hell does a heatpipe even break!?
[03:10:52] <Valen> leak
[03:11:00] <inflex> internally?
[03:11:08] <Valen> they normally run a moderate vacuum
[03:11:36] <Valen> also some of them will have fabric wicks, some use channels/texture to do the same thing
[03:11:57] <inflex> *sigh* wondering if it's worth it to get a new assembly... what a PITA
[03:12:24] <inflex> will be lucky to get $200 for the laltop
[03:12:35] <Valen> if you wanted to test it before buying a new one you could probably work out roughly how much heat xfer to expect along the pipe then test it with water
[03:12:51] <inflex> *meh* no thanks
[03:12:56] <Valen> ie put the cpu end in a cup of 60c water and see how long it takes the "cold" end to heat up
[03:18:53] <inflex> well, managed to get Ubuntu to boot and running xsensors
[03:19:08] <inflex> idling at ~62'C, soon as you run something like FFox it'll blast up to 80'C+
[03:19:20] <Valen> sounds like bad cooling to me
[03:24:45] <inflex> well, ordered the replacement cooling unit
[03:24:46] <inflex> *sigh*
[03:24:59] <inflex> anything more and I'm at a loss situation :(
[03:25:07] <Valen> 's all you can do
[03:25:18] <Valen> lemme know if you want a 2nd hand macbook ~$450 ;->
[03:25:19] <inflex> might be cheaper then for me to sell the Atom based Acer Aspire One and keep the DV5
[03:25:52] <inflex> got the unit now sitting on a box, so it has unimpeded airflow
[03:26:09] <inflex> for some reason I can't get the fanspeeds via the usual sensors
[03:26:30] <inflex> would be nice to see if perhaps the fan itself was only running at half-rpm, but then if that was the case, the air that was coming out should be extra hot
[03:26:32] <Valen> eh their operation is hit andmiss especially in laptops
[03:36:36] <Roklobsta> new i3-gen2 laptops with whiz bang are under $500 now.
[03:36:59] <Roklobsta> when i say whiz bang i meean more than enough to do just about anythign except play crysis
[03:37:16] <Roklobsta> my i7 is way overkill for avr dev and web
[03:38:01] <Fleck> since when #avr is #hardware ©specing :D
[03:38:59] <Roklobsta> i'm just saying, for all the flaffing around trying to get something to work again, buying new is a good option
[03:39:33] <Roklobsta> it's not hackerish
[03:39:42] <Roklobsta> just pragmatic
[03:40:26] <Roklobsta> even if you are desperate dual core atom 570's are close to $200 now.
[04:04:22] <Roklobsta> oh duh, make -j 8 makes my avrgcc compiles fly
[04:06:38] <inflex> Roklobsta: precisely, you can't sell a 2nd-hand laptop for anything more than $200
[04:07:12] <mansfeld> Roklobsta: hmm, do you have any idea if it's possible to get avr studio to do the same thing? (or does it do it already?)
[04:07:35] <Roklobsta> i was just about to look into that
[04:09:13] <mansfeld> it seems to call make.exe but I can't see a way to pass options to it
[04:09:20] <Roklobsta> nohing obvious in 4.19
[04:12:54] <Roklobsta> 5.1 maybe Options->Projects and Solutions->Build and Run->max parallel builds
[04:14:06] <Roklobsta> using make -j 8 in shell forces all my i7 cores to 100%
[04:14:10] <mansfeld> oh, interesting
[04:14:32] <Roklobsta> i just did a build in 5.1 and was nowhere near 100%
[04:15:03] <mansfeld> same here
[04:22:04] <Roklobsta> nothing obvious in 5.1 either, so I'd say now. Time to rough up abcminiuser.
[04:22:11] <Roklobsta> now = no
[04:22:17] <Steffanx> inflex, some poeple can.. I say: Apple :P
[06:08:44] <Divinite> Hey there!
[06:13:12] <Divinite> Does the Teensy count as a avr?
[06:15:32] <mansfeld> Divinite: not sure what you mean by "count as an avr" but it does use an AVR microcontroller
[06:16:43] <Divinite> mansfeld: You know what I mean :P
[06:17:10] <Divinite> I am a complete n00b though, when it comes to this architecture.
[06:18:25] <mansfeld> it's not too difficult to learn imho, what have you used before?
[06:19:33] <Divinite> I'm mostly new to electronics (dev boards) myself.
[06:20:13] <Divinite> mansfeld: Although I know the Arduino language pretty well.
[06:21:56] <Divinite> I guess I know the two main... ARM and ... I've forgotten the other...
[06:21:57] <wollw> Divinite: have you built a breadboard arduino?
[06:22:01] <wollw> PIC?
[06:22:16] <wollw> other than AVR
[06:22:27] <Divinite> wollw: No, I used prjc's Teensy++
[06:22:52] <wollw> ah, well building an arduino clone is pretty easy
[06:22:58] <Divinite> wollw: Not many places in AUS where you can source the parts...
[06:23:46] <Divinite> wollw: Where would I get the parts + how much?
[06:24:15] <mansfeld> Divinite:
http://au.element14.com/ ?
[06:24:35] <Divinite> I don't like element14, they sell your information,
[06:24:39] <Divinite> ..
[06:24:51] <mansfeld> most companies like mouser and digi-key ship worldwide
[06:25:00] <Divinite> Anywhere else... I know spark fun
[06:25:00] * wollw usually buys from mouser
[06:25:05] <Divinite> *sparkfun
[06:25:30] <Divinite> But it's waaayyyyy too expensive
[06:25:37] <mansfeld> I use mouser and digi-key usually, but it's only worth it if you order lots of stuff at a time
[06:26:33] <Divinite> Well... What I'd like is a "mini-computer" (sorry if that's out of the question... I'm new!)
[06:26:45] <Divinite> So... Which chip?
[06:26:51] <Divinite> Board..
[06:26:55] <Divinite> Whatever?
[06:26:56] <wollw> oh, the arduino site has a tutorial on building a breadboard arduino by the way
[06:26:59] <wollw> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone
[06:27:14] <wollw> Divinite: well, what do you want to do with a mini-computer?
[06:27:20] <Divinite> Mhm.... But I don't want another Arduino
[06:27:45] <Divinite> wollw: I'd like to have Linux, that I could take anywhere..
[06:27:52] <mansfeld> Divinite: have you looked at the beagleboard?
[06:28:18] <wollw> beagleboard or similar is probably a good bet if you want a full OS
[06:28:29] <Divinite> Yes and the Cotton Candy
[06:28:39] <Divinite> And raspberri pi
[06:29:03] <Divinite> But what if I want to put Linux on avr architecture?
[06:29:27] <wollw> not the 8-bits
[06:29:28] <Divinite> But they're all too expensive!
[06:29:35] <mansfeld> not entirely sure, but I don't think linux can be ported to 8 bit mcus
[06:29:36] <wollw> not sure if there is an avr32 port
[06:30:06] <Divinite> Hmm ..
[06:30:26] <Divinite> I'm not experienced in C at all... Just ruby.
[06:30:44] <wollw> Divinite: if you're comfortable with the arduino language you know some c
[06:31:00] <Divinite> So.. Could things like ruby be ported on there?
[06:31:13] <mrfrenzy_> just get a raspberry pi for $25
[06:31:15] <mansfeld> Divinite: do you have an idea of what sort of application you'd like to develop?
[06:31:27] <wollw> Divinite: 8-bit MCUs really are't powerful enough for that sort of thing
[06:31:33] <mrfrenzy_> it is possible to run some kind of python on avrs
[06:31:36] <Divinite> mansfeld: A sort of NAS/Server box.
[06:31:54] * wollw forgot about that python port
[06:32:07] <mrfrenzy_> for a NAS, just forget avr
[06:32:07] <wollw> there's a port of forth too :)
[06:32:20] <mrfrenzy_> you need a befy arm or intel cpu
[06:32:21] <Divinite> mrfrenzy_: Sold out, and that means 2mnths+
[06:32:35] <mrfrenzy_> find the cheapest dd-wrt unit with an usb port
[06:32:39] <mrfrenzy_> add harddrive, done
[06:33:04] <mrfrenzy_> (or sd card, you can put that on all units with the internal serial port)
[06:33:05] <mansfeld> if you want some cheap embedded devices that can run linux, you could try the pogo plug
[06:33:06] <Divinite> But... What about a server? (keep in mind I already have a teensy++)
[06:33:21] <mansfeld> or one of those pocket routers/access points
[06:33:21] <Divinite> Ok, I'll check that out..
[06:33:30] <Divinite> mansfeld: Like?
[06:33:36] <mrfrenzy_> http://dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database
[06:33:47] <Divinite> Budget is 10>
[06:33:55] <Divinite> AUS$
[06:35:12] <mansfeld> I don't think you can expect to build a NAS for that price
[06:35:27] <Divinite> Well... Where can you even get 32bit chips on a board?
[06:35:44] <Valen> rasberrypi?
[06:35:44] <Divinite> Like Texas Instruments or apple?
[06:35:58] <Divinite> Valen: Already said... Sold out.
[06:36:08] <Valen> for now
[06:36:14] <Valen> its not like they have run out
[06:36:23] <wollw> http://beagleboard.org/
[06:36:24] <mrfrenzy_> cheapest thing you will find is some tp-link router with dd-wrt
[06:36:33] <mrfrenzy_> probably about the same as raspberry
[06:39:50] <pingec> ahs wifi tho
[06:39:52] <pingec> :))ž
[06:39:52] <wollw> http://www.mouser.com/Embedded-Solutions/Single-Board-Computers/_/N-1jo16?P=1z0w8ej&Ns=Pricing|0
[06:40:47] <pingec> Where can I find some guidelines on writing tidy asm code?
[06:42:11] <Divinite> Could I make my own board?
[06:43:13] <Divinite> mansfeld: n?
[06:51:00] <Tom_itx> pingec,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/ASM_User_guide.pdf
[06:51:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/AVR_instruction_set.pdf
[07:20:19] <pingec> Tom_itx thanks
[07:23:09] <amee2k> how come that farnell has a huge modal banner advertising rhaspberrypoop boards??
[07:24:27] <mrfrenzy_> because they are one of the distributors?
[07:26:18] <amee2k> they distribute TL431s too. i've never seen a huge advertisement banner for these before
[07:28:13] <mrfrenzy> different market segment
[07:28:22] <mrfrenzy> maybe they want to save themselves from hundreds of phone calls
[07:29:39] <amee2k> lol
[07:31:36] <Valen> lots of people want pi
[07:31:41] <Valen> i want pi
[07:31:43] <mrfrenzy> it's probably the first time farnell's been /.ed
[07:31:45] <Valen> i want lots of pi
[07:31:51] <mrfrenzy> me2
[07:32:00] <Valen> i want to stuff them all through my house lol
[07:35:59] <amee2k> when i wanted to check it out their website was down :P
[07:37:23] <amee2k> from what i read on wikipedia it doesn't look any special though
[07:39:27] <specing> Yea, its meant for noob teenagers to learn programing LOL
[07:39:40] <specing> definetely not worth the money.
[07:41:15] <amee2k> i think all the arduino folks started fapping when someone on a blog said that it runs ubuntu (which from what i can see isn't even supported, only debian slack and a few other old-schoolers)
[07:41:58] <mrfrenzy> if you take my application, I want some cheap board with ethernet that can run python, 1-wire and control a few I/O
[07:42:09] <mrfrenzy> tell me about a better alternative than the Pi
[07:42:51] <amee2k> the only thing you want the pi for then is for the python part
[07:46:03] <specing> mrfrenzy: you need a 32-bit processor to run python
[07:46:10] <specing> Forget about AVRs
[07:46:35] <scuzzy> isn't is not about the peripherals but about the price?
[07:46:35] <specing> Your only choice is an ARM
[07:46:39] <scuzzy> I mean, they are pretty damn cheap
[07:46:43] <scuzzy> considering what they have
[07:47:30] <specing> scuzzy: beagleboards would be cheap too if you got 1e06 noobs to buy them.
[07:47:45] <scuzzy> the point is, they aren't
[07:47:52] <scuzzy> raspberry PI is cheap
[07:48:13] <specing> I will roll my own design :D
[07:48:25] <scuzzy> it'll be 4 times the size and 8 times the price
[07:48:32] <scuzzy> but hey, whatever
[07:48:50] <mrfrenzy> specing: i know, but amee2k seems to think the pi is useless ;)
[07:48:54] <specing> I agree with the first, but not the second claim
[07:49:05] <specing> mrfrenzy: it is
[07:49:07] <amee2k> mrfrenzy: no, you think that
[07:49:13] <amee2k> i said i can't see anything special about it
[07:49:38] <specing> How many I/O and peripherals does the rpi have?
[07:49:38] <mrfrenzy> what's special is a fullblown computer with IO for almost no money
[07:49:38] <scuzzy> there isn't anything "special" about it other than the price
[07:49:50] <scuzzy> I don't think there is a single board out there that can run linux, that is that price
[07:50:01] <mrfrenzy> it has USB, so you can add as many peripherals as you like, and there are a bunch of standard digital and analog io onboard
[07:50:21] <scuzzy> can use it as an HD media center as well
[07:50:23] <amee2k> mrfrenzy: you can get used laptops that have twice the computing power for free from the trash now
[07:50:43] <mrfrenzy> that isn't reliable, small or power efficient
[07:50:55] <scuzzy> I have to say, I'm somewhat impressed with it
[07:50:59] <specing> Look, I have an ARM board with 96 i/o lines and a ton of other peripherals for twice the money of the RPIs A version
[07:51:05] <scuzzy> I've not seen an other platform like it for the same price
[07:51:52] <scuzzy> specing: does it have ethernet?
[07:52:25] <amee2k> well, when you isntall ubuntu on it it'll at least drag ass. thats gotta count for something i suppose :P
[07:52:38] <specing> scuzzy: yes, 100M
[07:52:43] <scuzzy> specing: runs linux?
[07:52:47] <specing> Yes
[07:52:48] <scuzzy> can I see?
[07:52:55] <scuzzy> what CPU?
[07:53:01] <specing> AT91SAM9260
[07:53:04] <scuzzy> nice
[07:53:43] <scuzzy> got a pic?
[07:53:46] <scuzzy> how big is it?
[07:54:13] <RikusW> specing: what is it called ?
[07:54:26] <specing> http://laps.fri.uni-lj.si/fri-sms/slike/DSC00001.JPG
[07:55:05] <scuzzy> the raspberry only has 8 GPIO's
[07:55:13] <specing> heh
[07:55:22] <scuzzy> you designed that?
[07:55:44] <specing> No, it was designed by a local university
[07:56:00] <scuzzy> how much ram?
[07:56:07] <specing> 64M
[08:00:20] <scuzzy> it's nice, but lets face it, not as nice... (;
[08:00:58] <pingec> ubuntu would be slooow on rpi
[08:01:48] <scuzzy> maybe... I dunno
[08:02:00] <pingec> yea it's not that powerful
[08:02:02] <scuzzy> it supports all the nice graphicsy stuff, has openGL ES on there
[08:02:18] <pingec> and there's no x11 accel
[08:02:21] <pingec> iirc
[08:02:25] <pingec> so...
[08:02:29] <scuzzy> for openGL ES?
[08:02:44] <pingec> that works yes
[08:03:03] <Valen> I want pi for mythfrontend
[08:03:07] <pingec> so it can play quake
[08:03:10] <Valen> but no mpeg2 hardware decoding
[08:03:17] <pingec> but it cant browse the net decently
[08:03:18] <pingec> :)
[08:03:43] <amee2k> h264 hardware decoding too?
[08:03:49] <Valen> pi has that
[08:03:53] <pingec> yes
[08:04:27] <amee2k> because i don't think a lot of people use mpeg2 for HD stuff ;)
[08:04:42] <Valen> australian free to air tv is mpeg2
[08:04:57] <amee2k> if that is hd then it must look like crap
[08:05:11] <Valen> better than low bit rate mpeg4
[08:05:34] <pingec> specing so thats whats running the sms board at fri :D?
[08:05:37] <amee2k> everything looks like shit if the bitrate is low enough (cf. youtube)
[08:05:40] <scuzzy> 1080p30 h.264/MPEG-4 AVC high-profile decoder
[08:06:30] <pingec> after first batch is sent out
[08:06:40] <pingec> we will see how good it performs really
[08:06:41] <pingec> or not
[08:06:43] <pingec> :D
[08:07:12] <amee2k> maybe they'll have an easter egg in the firmware
[08:07:23] <pingec> that would suck
[08:07:27] <amee2k> once a year it locks everything out and a message pops up
[08:08:04] <pingec> I'm definitely making it my web server
[08:08:23] <amee2k> "imagine a world without raspberry pi! due to <entirely unrelated political agenda> this board will be disabled for 24 hours. protest now against your least favourite political governing body!"
[08:08:27] <amee2k> XD
[08:08:35] <pingec> :D
[08:08:45] <pingec> thats a great idea
[08:08:57] <pingec> only it would work better if you replace rpi with facebook :>
[08:09:18] <amee2k> well, no real loss there
[08:09:35] <pingec> agree
[08:09:46] <amee2k> a bunch of teenie worlds would collapse because they can't post their myspace style mirror self portraits anymore
[08:10:09] <pingec> you mean most of teenagers
[08:10:48] <amee2k> psyciatric practices all over the world will get overrun by hordes of manically depressed teenies 0.0
[08:11:48] <amee2k> well, the sad thing is... if i had kids at this point i'd rather buy them a facebook account than a TV :/
[08:19:23] <specing> pingec: I thought you have one?
[08:21:13] <specing> had*
[08:36:39] <pingec> specing one what?
[08:37:05] <specing> fri-sms
[08:38:24] <Tom_itx> most importantly, jan wasn't here to add her 2c
[08:39:08] <specing> 2c?
[08:39:36] <pingec> specing nope, why would i ?
[08:40:39] <specing> pingec: Since you are from around here
[08:41:51] <amee2k> how about we upgrade jan from 2c to 10$ so we can order pizza for it?
[08:42:05] <pingec> well no, I've never had the chance to see or work with it
[08:49:58] <dirty_d> what kinda cables do underwater rovs typically use?
[08:50:05] <dirty_d> of the diy variety
[08:51:00] <specing> dirty_d: Are you making an underwater quadcopter? :D
[08:51:12] <dirty_d> shhh!
[08:51:23] <dirty_d> no, but i think an rov would be a pretty cool project
[08:51:28] <dirty_d> and probably pretty cheap too
[08:51:37] <dirty_d> ethernet cable might work
[08:54:03] <dirty_d> although i dont know what kinda signal would survive the distance
[08:54:07] <dirty_d> other than ethernet
[08:54:24] <dirty_d> could have an rpi on each end, lol
[08:54:59] <specing> dirty_d: if you get something which uses 100V to communicate, a couple of km no problem
[08:55:14] <specing> Although the bandwidth could suck D:
[08:56:21] <specing> 9600 baud serial at 100V?
[08:56:28] <amee2k> o.O
[08:56:40] <amee2k> how about RS485 on twisted pair?
[08:57:23] <specing> Dunno
[08:58:04] <amee2k> iirc people used to use 485 over leased lines for kilometers on end
[08:58:34] <dirty_d> cool
[08:58:41] <dirty_d> that would be a pretty cool project
[08:58:45] <dirty_d> my dad does a lot of fishing
[08:58:52] <amee2k> otherwise i'd get a 10MBit ethernet mac... T-base 10 was limited to at least a few hundred meters iirc
[08:58:54] <Tom_itx> that's why they use sonar
[08:58:58] <dirty_d> could bring it out with some kinda live camera feed and find fish
[08:59:04] <dirty_d> this is way more fun that sonar, lol
[08:59:19] <amee2k> plus you could use PoE on steroids to supply power over the same cable
[08:59:23] <dirty_d> the waters only 30 feet deep, so i dont really need 100 meters
[09:00:14] <Tom_itx> http://www.huv.com/uSeeker/index.html
[09:00:28] <Tom_itx> if you really wanna know
[09:01:34] <dirty_d> i was thinking something super simple like that
[09:01:43] <dirty_d> one motor and 2 rudders
[09:01:43] <specing> dirty_d: you could always use fiber optics
[09:01:52] <dirty_d> or plane i guess youd call the horizontal one
[09:01:59] <dirty_d> lets not get carried away
[09:01:59] <dirty_d> lol
[09:02:39] <dirty_d> does that use sonar to communicate?
[09:02:57] <dirty_d> Tom_itx, oh you meant sonar for communication didnt you
[09:02:58] <specing> dirty_d: one LED and a light sensor, no?
[09:03:10] <dirty_d> specing, i dunno, is it that simple?
[09:03:19] <dirty_d> how expensive is the cable?
[09:03:39] <dirty_d> id want a live camera feed too
[09:04:38] <specing> dirty_d: atleast in theory it is
[09:05:04] <Tom_itx> dirty_d yes
[09:05:08] <dirty_d> if i use ethernet, i can do everyting very easily
[09:05:22] <dirty_d> live camera feed and as many control channels i need etc
[09:05:29] <dirty_d> and id only need a $35 rpi
[09:05:44] <Tom_itx> the heavier the cable the more power you will need to tug it along
[09:05:48] <dirty_d> yea
[09:05:58] <dirty_d> i specialize in overdoing things to the max
[09:06:01] <dirty_d> so thats not a problem
[09:06:02] <dirty_d> lol
[09:06:42] <Tom_itx> just steal some wiring from the shuttle now that they're done with it
[09:06:47] <dirty_d> lol
[09:06:48] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it's quality cable
[09:07:20] <dirty_d> i could have 2 small conductors along with the ethernet and like step up the boats 12V system to like 500V and down to 12V in the sub
[09:07:46] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/small_probe7_small.jpg
[09:07:55] <Tom_itx> that's some really good aircraft cable
[09:08:05] <dirty_d> the efficiency wont matter, because it will be powered by the boats gasoline engine, and i have water to cool things
[09:08:34] <dirty_d> neat
[09:09:34] <Tom_itx> shielded n all
[10:26:46] <svens_> are there any obvious pitfalls while using Timer2 of a ATMEGA32 for wakeup from sleep mode?
[10:26:57] <svens_> i'm using an 32KHz crystal on TOSC0/1
[10:27:06] <svens_> and the timer triggers OVF ints
[10:27:18] <svens_> but as soon as i enter power save, it never wakes up again
[10:27:38] <specing> sei?
[10:27:52] <svens_> is enabled
[10:28:39] <svens_> the 32KHz osc is running, and the main crystal is switched off
[10:28:43] <svens_> so far this looks ok
[10:29:00] <svens_> TOIE2 is set
[10:29:07] <svens_> AS2 is set
[10:29:11] <svens_> hmm
[10:47:12] <cyanide> whats up fellow men
[10:47:14] <cyanide> and women
[11:07:32] <specing> cyanide: thursday
[11:17:50] <cyanide> i wouldnt've known
[11:18:35] <cyanide> on a pcb, which is better? having less vias or having less direction changes of the traces?
[11:18:44] <Tom_itx> both
[11:18:51] <cyanide> which is the bigger evil?
[11:19:03] <cyanide> ive got my board down to just 3 vias by better placement of components
[11:19:04] <Tom_itx> no single answer to that
[11:19:08] <cyanide> ok
[11:19:17] <Tom_itx> depends on frequencies etc
[11:19:41] <cyanide> 2 vias, not 3 :)
[11:19:53] <Tom_itx> impedance matched traces etc come into play
[11:20:02] <Tom_itx> so the via is part of the trace there
[11:20:12] <Tom_itx> noise in analog sections
[11:20:30] <cyanide> how do you like this board?
http://i.imgur.com/hRvkB.jpg
[11:20:40] <Tom_itx> if you can get down to 2 vias you can get to 0
[11:21:17] <cyanide> well im using the bottom layer as a vcc supply layer, so i need to supply it there :)
[11:21:48] <cyanide> and using an smd vreg. can get it down to 1 by using a pth vreg
[11:22:08] <Tom_itx> why so spread out?
[11:22:23] <Tom_itx> i like nice compact boards :)
[11:22:32] <Tom_itx> i probably fault that direction
[11:22:53] <cyanide> yeah even i do. but i need the dimensions to be 5cm x 10 cm
[11:22:54] <Tom_itx> atmega32u2?
[11:23:03] <cyanide> xmega32a4u
[11:23:23] <Tom_itx> the mini b was a dead giveaway
[11:23:50] <cyanide> :)
[11:23:51] <Tom_itx> what's the pn for the little slide switch?
[11:23:55] <Tom_itx> i like that
[11:23:57] <cyanide> ftdis are expensive lol
[11:24:21] <cyanide> i got it from sparkfun's library. havent actually looked for the part number yet
[11:24:28] <cyanide> let me see
[11:24:30] <Tom_itx> oh
[11:24:39] <Tom_itx> i use one similar is why i asked
[11:25:01] <cyanide> ok
[11:25:16] <cyanide> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/597
[11:25:23] <cyanide> ill find the global p/n now
[11:25:55] <Tom_itx> mine are .68
[11:26:38] <cyanide> there you go
http://in.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/AYZ0102AGRL/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtHXLepoqNyVQKHqlc0Pj2QZGWKGW2vtAQ%3D
[11:26:49] <Tom_itx> oh, i don't like that as much as mine now that i see it
[11:26:56] <cyanide> show me yours
[11:27:21] <cyanide> this is the correct pic
http://media.digikey.com/photos/CK%20Comp%20Photos/AYZ0102AGRL.jpg
[11:27:41] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[11:27:44] <Tom_itx> that's not quite as bad
[11:27:58] <Tom_itx> http://in.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/PCM12SMTR/?qs=mfFuHy8STfL3qrPSfCHA7w%3d%3d
[11:28:32] <Tom_itx> same mfg
[11:28:44] <cyanide> quite similar, like you said
[11:29:19] <Casper> * inflex wonders if perhaps he should use a transfer _pad_ rather than paste
[11:29:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/12v_TPI_Prog_top.jpg
[11:29:26] <Tom_itx> that's what it looks like
[11:29:41] <Casper> inflex: my laptop use some kind of thermal paste/thermal pad hybrid thing
[11:29:58] <cyanide> you're the guy who partly developed lufa, or atleast the xmega flasher right?
[11:30:15] <Tom_itx> no i made the programmer for his example though
[11:30:23] <Tom_itx> and helped debug TPI
[11:30:24] <cyanide> ah ok
[11:30:34] <Casper> the one on the gpu went swoosh... so I had to put a pad, no more problem
[11:30:37] <cyanide> i was reading the docs a couple of days back
[11:31:17] <Tom_itx> the avrisp mkii example defaults to my hardware
[11:33:04] <Tom_itx> i'd use my switch on your board since it's stocked by mouser and the other one isn't
[11:33:15] <Tom_itx> if you want the lib part i can pull it
[11:33:16] <cyanide> will do
[11:33:20] <cyanide> sure
[11:33:38] <Tom_itx> it may be on my site already..
[11:34:54] <cyanide> i have a question. does the size of the board make a difference in how the product is percieved by a layman?
[11:35:01] <cyanide> as in, bigger board = serious business
[11:35:07] <cyanide> lol
[11:35:30] <Tom_itx> smaller is better nowdays
[11:35:31] <Tom_itx> look at phones
[11:35:42] <cyanide> i could shrink my board down to 5x5, but if it doesn't sell i don't get to feed my family :)
[11:35:43] <cyanide> haha
[11:35:50] <cyanide> true
[11:36:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[11:36:56] <OndraSter> cyanide, where's happiness?
[11:39:01] <cyanide> i hate qfn
[11:39:03] <cyanide> in the comic
[11:39:15] <cyanide> he ripped off my nick and makes money now
[11:39:24] <cyanide> i should ask for a cut
[11:40:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/eagle/
[11:40:30] <cyanide> nice :) thanks. ill have a look
[11:40:32] <Tom_itx> switch_pcm12smtr.lbr
[11:45:14] <Tom_itx> i'd shove the usb out to the edge too
[11:49:05] <cyanide> ok
[11:55:21] <Tom_itx> that's what i did on that last board you see anyway
[11:56:03] <Tom_itx> what mini b are you using?
[12:42:12] <amee2k> CapnKernel \o/
[12:45:14] <CapnKernel> Someone just messaged me, but I'm still stuck reading from 19 hours ago. I'll catch up soon :-)
[12:47:37] <amee2k> hehe :)
[13:44:57] <abcminiuser_> Ok people, so, an idea
[13:45:09] <abcminiuser_> I need to test my LUFA stack, which means functional tests
[13:45:43] <abcminiuser_> I'm planning on running embedded linux on an ARM9 board, which will pull HEX files over a network, download them onto a variety of boards attached via USB
[13:46:05] <abcminiuser_> Then use GPIOs to hold different boards in reset while it probes each board one by one
[13:46:17] <abcminiuser_> And checks that each demo behaves as expected
[13:46:25] <abcminiuser_> Anyone forsee any issues?
[14:08:52] <CapnKernel> I caught up! Just in time for bed.
[14:09:53] <CapnKernel> amee2k: Can you use XRE LEDs instead of XRCs? XRCs are too old to get my hands on.
[14:10:05] <amee2k> hmm...
[14:10:18] <amee2k> lemme check
[14:10:30] <CapnKernel> I have to go, I'll check after the sleepy thing
[14:10:44] <CapnKernel> I've got your quote for everything else.
[14:11:14] <amee2k> CapnKernel: nice. i've got the next quote request for you :)
[14:12:01] <amee2k> CapnKernel: do they make XR-E series in red too= o.O
[14:12:05] <amee2k> too?*
[14:13:10] <CapnKernel> Let me ship this quote to you first, or my tiny brain will explode
[14:13:35] <CapnKernel> So, the quote will have XR-Es.
[14:13:43] <CapnKernel> I was told so.
[14:13:49] <CapnKernel> In Chinese :-)
[14:14:36] <CapnKernel> might
[14:14:40] <CapnKernel> night
[14:14:44] <amee2k> neither the website nor the datasheet mentions red
[14:15:01] <CapnKernel> I'll check out what the deal is
[14:15:25] <amee2k> CapnKernel: well, that might be a problem. we're not sure if we want the 34063s after the moderate performance disappointment on the prototype
[14:16:11] <amee2k> it'll probably bust a) efficiency expectations b) price target and c) physical size target at the same time
[14:17:30] <amee2k> good thing we did the prototype and not just do it all on paper and end up with half a dozen useless boards
[14:18:24] <amee2k> CapnKernel: looks like XR-E has the same footprint so they would be fine too
[14:18:46] <amee2k> but red is the important part, we need two fixtures in red
[14:19:39] <amee2k> nighty :)
[14:25:19] <jacekowski> abcminiuser_: wouldn't it be better to disconnect board completly
[14:25:37] <jacekowski> abcminiuser_: including usb port ( you have resistors there and paralleling them is probably not going to work )
[14:26:45] <abcminiuser_> Yeah, but more difficult
[14:26:56] <abcminiuser_> Holding the devices in reset and having them in a hub should fix that
[14:44:21] <amee2k> there are USB multiplexer ICs
[14:46:23] <OndraSter> http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all
[14:47:41] <OndraSter> 34063 :/
[14:48:00] <OndraSter> too many swear words sent on 34063's chip
[14:48:10] <OndraSter> some of them because my fault, some not
[14:49:06] <amee2k> well, it is a nice chip, it only has two problems. the first is the shitty bipolar darnington power switch that really drags efficiency down. especially in a high side switched topology
[14:49:29] <amee2k> and the second is that it needs fairly large passives due to the rather low switching frequency
[14:49:43] <amee2k> both of which have become a problem on our board :/
[14:49:43] <Roklobsta> abcminiuser: quick question, can avrstudio 4/5 be made to use "make -j x" where x is a number to use as many cores as opssible for compiling?
[14:50:08] <abcminiuser> Roklobsta, probably not, but you could bootstrap it
[14:50:25] <abcminiuser> Make it call into a dummy makefile, which spawns the real makefile as a sub-rule with the -j option
[14:51:20] <jacekowski> iirc it can do anything
[14:51:25] <jacekowski> i mean avr studio 4
[14:51:43] <jacekowski> not sure about 5
[14:51:53] <Roklobsta> abcminiuser: you testing concept sounds fine. as long as you have enough i/o pins for all the boards you want to reset
[14:52:40] <abcminiuser> Roklobsta, I'm thinking of using a daughter serial board with an AVR to stimulate the test boards
[14:52:47] <abcminiuser> Should be fun to set up
[14:53:10] <Roklobsta> alternative, use the i/o pin to control a fet for each board effectively turning it on and off, not justr held in reset
[14:54:06] <amee2k> mmh, doesn't just gating power risk excessive current through any ESD clamping structures?
[14:55:07] <amee2k> i'd say using reset to enable the boards is the more reliable solution (provided all critical pins go high-z when reset is asserted)
[14:55:27] <Roklobsta> how many board?
[14:55:28] <Roklobsta> s?
[15:05:36] <abcminiuser> Roklobsta, a few
[15:06:38] <abcminiuser> AVR8: u2, u4, u6, u7 devices, XMEGA: a1u, a3u, b, AVR32: a0, a1, a3, a4, b0, b1, c, l3, l4
[15:10:42] <Roklobsta> ah so a LOT
[15:14:08] <pthomas> OndraSter, that's funny
[15:22:48] <OndraSter> hmm the lowest prescaler for watchdog is only 14ms?
[15:23:05] <OndraSter> I'd be happy with something like 1.5ms :)
[15:24:33] <OndraSter> 16k is the lowest prescaler appearantly
[15:24:35] <OndraSter> sux
[15:26:38] <OndraSter> wondering if one could setup some kind of "software watchcat" which would just raise interrupt if the watchdog counter/whatever would run out
[15:26:48] <OndraSter> so one could like... print out stack trace or such :)
[15:26:53] <OndraSter> and then reset
[15:27:04] <Roklobsta> stack trace? i don't think even avrstudio can stack trace
[15:27:22] <OndraSter> just dump stack
[15:27:28] <OndraSter> to serial or w/e
[15:27:34] <Roklobsta> stack trace. i wannit
[15:28:05] <OndraSter> http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/wtf-concert-calculator.jpg
[15:29:24] <specing> Hey CapnKernel
[15:43:59] <jadew> lol OndraSter
[15:44:13] <OndraSter> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397866_274557789278631_109861995748212_779621_419604824_n.jpg
[15:44:14] <OndraSter> :)
[15:47:11] <virtuald> ondraster: maybe it was a kraftwerk concert
[15:48:04] <OndraSter> :)
[15:48:14] <OndraSter> I have to try that sometime lol
[15:49:14] <OndraSter> will watchdog run when there is JTAG connected and the program is paused in debugging?
[15:49:20] <OndraSter> run & reset
[15:53:01] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, how's the new xmega usb chip port coming?
[15:53:32] <Tom_itx> as well as your automated test setup
[16:31:41] <jadew> am I wrong or atmel doesn't have any MCUs that can do i2c spi and usb at the same time?
[16:31:57] <jadew> well, i2c or spi, don't need them both at the same time
[16:32:32] <alexh> you are wrong
[16:32:35] <alexh> e.g. ATMEGA32U4
[16:32:50] <jadew> checking it out
[16:32:53] <alexh> or AT90USB1286
[16:34:47] <jadew> you're right, thanks
[16:35:22] <jadew> is there an easy way to search by this kind of paramters?
[16:36:52] <alexh> using the parametric search
[16:37:28] <jadew> it's grayed out
[16:37:44] <jadew> ah, nvm
[16:37:48] <alexh> works fine here
[16:37:51] <jadew> had to switch to something else and back again
[16:37:52] <alexh> it's the blue stuff to the left
[16:37:56] <jadew> yeah
[16:38:07] <alexh> 11 8-bit atmels with usb and spi
[16:38:24] <jadew> and now it's not loading, what browser are you using?
[16:38:30] <alexh> ff
[16:38:47] <alexh> 7
[16:39:00] <jadew> I'm using 10
[16:39:08] <jadew> gonna try a different one
[16:40:00] <jadew> not working in chrome either
[16:40:27] <alexh> not sure if this link works, but it's worth a try:
[16:40:31] <alexh> http://www.atmel.com/PFResults.aspx#%28data:%28area:%27%27,category:%2734864[33180[33085,33086]]%27,mature:!f,pm:!%28%28i:8238,v:!%280,16%29%29,%28i:8394,v:!%280,17%29%29,%28i:8362,v:!%280,27%29%29,%28i:8282,v:!%280,1,2,3,4,5,6,7%29%29,%28i:8429,v:!%281,10%29%29,%28i:8466,v:!%281,2,3%29%29%29,view:table%29,sc:1%29
[16:40:47] <jadew> yep, that worked
[16:41:01] <jadew> it's not wroking in opera either, if I try to get there from the menu
[16:41:30] <alexh> heh, seems I'm lucky with my old ff
[16:41:59] <jadew> yeah
[16:43:48] <jadew> found 17 for me
[16:44:24] <alexh> *shrug*
[16:50:07] <jadew> neat, couldn't find any at the shop I'm using
[17:09:02] <Tom_itx> jadew did you see that spreadsheet someone posted here the other day?
[17:09:14] <jadew> no, what spreadsheet?
[17:09:21] <Tom_itx> i'll post it once the other pc boots
[17:09:26] <jadew> thanks
[17:10:26] <alexh> well, you can export excel spreadsheets from the atmel website
[17:10:30] <alexh> nothing too special about that
[17:10:52] <alexh> you can export one with all the devices and parameters in it and do your own filter/parametric search
[17:11:01] <jadew> oh really
[17:11:05] <jadew> that sounds awesome
[17:11:31] <jadew> I kinda decided what I'll use tho
[17:11:46] <jadew> I gave up on hardware USB and I'm going to use a t2313 with soft usb
[17:12:25] <Roklobsta> why give up?
[17:12:43] <jadew> cuz I don't think I'll need the speed of a hardware usb driver
[17:13:07] <jadew> and the devices I found were both expensive and in smd packages
[17:13:17] <jadew> which makes them hard to work with
[17:13:50] <jadew> I want to make a device I can use to test i2c and spi trough a USB connection, so the speed is not that big of a deal
[17:13:59] <alexh> if you are not hell-bent on AVR, microchip has plenty of PICs with USB, cheap, and in DIP package
[17:13:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/
[17:14:12] <Tom_itx> Atmel_Parametric_Table.xls
[17:14:28] <jadew> alexh, I noticed, but I haven't done any PIC programming before
[17:14:51] <jadew> thanks Tom_itx
[17:15:23] <Kevin`> alexh: is there a free-as-in-speech usb stack for them?
[17:16:00] <Tom_itx> jadew, hang on. that thing is slower than pig shit. lemme reboot the router
[17:16:20] <jadew> Tom_itx, I already got it
[17:16:28] <Tom_itx> well it's slow here
[17:17:25] <OndraSter> why don't people use FT232 or PL-2303 (... just because of the price)? It is cheap, makes UART that can push higher speeds (almost 2Mbit in case of 16MHz xtal... in theory).. I know, extra chip... but it is easy to work with serial port rather full USB
[17:17:33] <OndraSter> less places that can go wrong
[17:17:43] <OndraSter> and less places to possibly debug/take care of
[17:18:08] <OndraSter> it is easier*
[17:18:16] <Kevin`> OndraSter: it's plenty easy to work with usb too, as long as you don't write the driver from scratch
[17:18:38] <OndraSter> you have to use some VID/PID combo that has drivers I presume is what you mean?
[17:18:46] <OndraSter> or use compatible drivers
[17:18:59] <Kevin`> OndraSter: also, doing 2mbit or 12mbit rs232 on an avr would require extremely tight interrupt handling
[17:19:07] <jadew> there are some free VID/PID's and you can use a free usb driver
[17:19:11] <Kevin`> OndraSter: I meant the avr-side drivers
[17:19:12] <jadew> then just connect to that from your app
[17:21:07] <OndraSter> there is like 2 bytes long FIFO (one in the register, one being shifted to the register)
[17:21:14] <OndraSter> I think
[17:21:22] <OndraSter> if it was 16 bytes...
[17:21:34] <Kevin`> alexh: you can modify and redistribute it yourself? I remember projects having a legal problem of some sort with it
[17:21:46] <OndraSter> damn it is 0012
[17:21:47] <OndraSter> gn
[17:22:19] <jadew> night
[17:22:58] <alexh> Kevin`:
http://pastie.org/3500114 short excerpt from the license
[17:23:58] <alexh> so basically, yea, you can redistribute stuff using it
[17:24:04] <Kevin`> I wonder what the issue was
[17:36:51] <Roklobsta_> jadew: smd is easy. just don't used a plumbers solering iron
[17:37:12] <Roklobsta_> and it's a good skill to have. all you need is a good magnifying stand
[17:37:23] <Roklobsta_> or better still a stereo microscope
[17:37:41] <Roklobsta_> it's amazing how steady and precise you can be if you have good magnification
[17:38:27] <jadew> Roklobsta_, I'm not worried about soldering the pieces
[17:38:32] <jadew> I'm worried about desoldering them
[17:38:39] <Roklobsta_> i have never had trouble soldering 0805 and TSOP, SO, and quad flat packs with a microscope and a thin tip.
[17:38:43] <jadew> when I realize I screwed up the pcb
[17:38:56] <Roklobsta_> that's easy too
[17:39:09] <Roklobsta_> lots of heat and a copper wick
[17:39:53] <Roklobsta_> if you wick up as much of the solder as you can it's easy to use a needle and iron tip to slightly lift each leg off the pad.
[17:40:01] <Landon> how can I check what my avr-gcc toolchain has support for? I specifically want to know if it has __builtin_avr_delay_cycles(unsigned long) support, without actually trying to compile anything
[17:40:20] <Roklobsta_> use strings and grep
[17:40:26] <Roklobsta_> on the gcc bin
[17:41:06] <Roklobsta_> if you have a
[17:41:18] <Roklobsta_> hot air gun you can lift the whole thing off at once
[17:41:26] <Tom_itx> jadew are there parts on just one side?
[17:41:34] <jadew> Roklobsta_, ah good point
[17:41:37] <Tom_itx> want a little secret to desolder easy?
[17:41:45] <Roklobsta_> another way is to put it on a frying pan
[17:41:55] <Tom_itx> i was gonna suggest a clothes iron
[17:42:03] <Tom_itx> i sit and hold it while i work on the board
[17:42:09] <Roklobsta_> have you modded your clothes iron to go to 11?
[17:42:14] <jadew> interresting
[17:42:15] <Tom_itx> no
[17:42:21] <Tom_itx> it works great though
[17:42:27] <Tom_itx> i have a spare just for this now
[17:42:42] <Tom_itx> actually i didn't get it for that but had one
[17:43:08] <Roklobsta_> and it does tonr transfer.
[17:43:08] <Tom_itx> let the iron get up to temp first
[17:43:17] <Tom_itx> yeah
[17:43:22] <Tom_itx> multi purpose
[17:43:30] <Roklobsta_> if your finger skin blisters upon touch it's ready to go
[17:43:42] <Landon> Roklobsta_: strings /usr/bin/avr-gcc | grep builtin doesn't really turn up anything itself
[17:43:45] <Tom_itx> i generally lick it to see
[17:44:07] <Roklobsta_> landon: i was being a bit facetious but you might want to try it on the oither .exe's and the libs too
[17:44:21] <jadew> my iron gets hot extra fast
[17:44:30] <Roklobsta_> nuclear?
[17:44:34] <jadew> I think in 30 seconds it's ready to go
[17:44:39] <Tom_itx> jadew, got some good tweezers?
[17:45:00] <jadew> I have some crappy tweezers, and a good one
[17:45:01] <Roklobsta_> yes good needle point tweezers are a must
[17:45:05] <Tom_itx> i use a couple. one to steady the board and one to remove the part
[17:45:18] <Roklobsta_> you also need 3 arms
[17:45:26] <Roklobsta_> i only have 2
[17:45:28] <jadew> heh
[17:46:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/weitus-stainless-steel-tweezers-for-electronics-diy-2-pack-19856
[17:46:34] <Roklobsta_> the easyiest way to remove an smd chip use to get a razor blade, quickly slice off the legs and then desolder each leg.
[17:47:20] <Tom_itx> Roklobsta_, i use an exacto and pry under each leg as i apply heat sometimes
[17:47:20] <Roklobsta_> the trick with desoldering is to not take the pads with the leg
[17:47:31] <Roklobsta_> as I have done now and then.
[17:47:31] <Tom_itx> yeah, don't pull too hard
[17:47:48] <Roklobsta_> exacto... sounds like wha I do with a needle
[17:48:12] <jadew> eh, for that wave generator chip, I'll just make a MSOP10 to DIP PCB
[17:48:16] <jadew> and use that instead
[17:48:26] <Roklobsta_> yes
[17:49:17] <jadew> I guess I should have the clock source on the same pcb tho
[17:49:36] <jadew> but then I might screw that up
[17:50:00] <Tom_itx> meh, put it all on the same board
[17:50:40] <jadew> thing is I want to build it all on a breadboard first
[17:50:46] <jadew> cuz I hate making PCBs
[17:51:05] <jadew> cut my fingers last time
[17:51:12] <Tom_itx> so send em off
[17:51:24] <jadew> well, I cut my fingers doing the panel, but still
[17:51:31] <Tom_itx> oh the hazards of having fun
[17:51:36] <jadew> hehe yeah
[17:51:47] <jadew> I don't mind it really, was expecting it to happen at some point
[17:52:54] <Landon> Roklobsta_: finally gave in and looked at delay.h, __HAS_DELAY_CYCLES is defined, seems just as awkawrd as using strings and grep though, oh well
[17:53:08] <Roklobsta_> now you know
[17:53:26] <Roklobsta_> i did have my tongue in cheeck when i suggested it
[17:54:01] <Roklobsta_> yeah don't get blood on the pcb
[17:54:12] <Landon> it's a shame the avr-libc site doesn't mention that define, had to dig through forums for it
[18:11:38] <jadew> hey guys, if you got to
http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ and select attiny2313
[18:11:57] <jadew> in that dropdown for clock source, you get several that look the same, but with different fuses
[18:12:49] <jadew> for the last 8 options for example you get +65 3 times
[18:12:57] <jadew> what's the deal with that?
[18:18:51] <Casper> going look
[18:20:00] <Casper> hmm
[18:47:19] <inflex> Casper: I ended up ordering a whole new cooling assembly, including heatpipe, with all the "required" pads/paste pre applied
[18:48:20] <Casper> inflex: could also be an heatpipe leak
[18:48:28] <Casper> they are known to have issue
[18:49:21] <inflex> Casper: yes, seems this might be the case
[18:49:46] <inflex> Casper: since the whole heatsink area above the CPU gets deliciously hot.. but the air blowing from the radiator isn't even warm
[18:50:02] <Casper> yeah seems to be the case
[18:57:21] * TheHypnotist slaps Casper around a bit with a large trout
[18:58:00] <Roklobsta_> how much was that all up?
[19:23:18] <xelapond> I'm trying to follow the avr assembly tutorial on avrbeginners.net, but don't have access to avr studio
[19:23:38] <xelapond> I'm trying to use avr-as on linux, and I understand there are differences between the avr studio assembler and the one included in avr-gcc
[19:23:55] <xelapond> Here is the code i'm working with(basically the same as the avrbeginners site):
http://dpaste.com/710201/
[19:24:13] <xelapond> The error i'm getting is "./blink.as:6 Error: constant value required"
[19:25:15] <xelapond> I'm sure this is a really simple error, anyone know what's going on?
[19:25:18] <xelapond> I'm using an atmega644p
[19:25:27] <rue_house> hmm
[19:26:17] <rue_house> xelapond, I dont think it has r16 defined
[19:26:31] <xelapond> oh, ok
[19:26:37] <rue_house> or SPL
[19:26:38] <xelapond> could i replace it with the address from the datasheet to test that?
[19:26:42] <rue_house> hmm
[19:26:54] <rue_house> I wonder what I used for avr assembler
[19:26:54] <xelapond> or is it not importing the .inc file?
[19:27:08] <xelapond> i specified mega644p on the command line
[19:27:12] <xelapond> but not in the file
[19:27:15] <rue_house> what inc file are you using
[19:27:41] <xelapond> i'm not sure, will avr-as import the right one if i tell it which device i have?
[19:27:52] <xelapond> or do i have to manually include it?
[19:28:15] <rue_house> your using avr-as ?
[19:28:31] <xelapond> yeah
[19:29:20] <rue_house> .device ATtiny13
[19:29:26] <rue_house> do you still need one of those?
[19:30:00] <xelapond> Error: unknown pseudo-op: ".device"
[19:30:03] <rue_house> oh I might use gavrasm
[19:30:28] <xelapond> I'm not attached to avr-as, i'll give gavrasm a try
[19:31:23] <rue_house> yes I used gavrasm
[19:32:45] <xelapond> Hm, that won't execute
[19:32:57] <rue_house> ? wont execute?
[19:33:22] <xelapond> -bash: ./gavrasm: cannot execute binary file
[19:33:49] <rue_house> how did you isntall it?
[19:33:52] <Landon> chmod +x gavrasm ?
[19:34:00] <rue_house> what flavor of linux are you running?
[19:34:02] <xelapond> Ubuntu
[19:34:05] <xelapond> I tried chmod
[19:34:13] <rue_house> k, uh
[19:34:14] <Landon> it might be for the wrong architecture too
[19:34:19] <Landon> I think I had to compile for my 32bit laptop
[19:34:20] <rue_house> ah
[19:34:29] <xelapond> The website said i386, that's what i'm running
[19:34:32] <xelapond> But i'll try compiling it
[19:34:52] <Landon> what does `file ./gavrasm` say?
[19:35:09] <rue_house> I think I ran into ubuntu doing that before with another system
[19:35:19] <rue_house> it got confused and was downloading the wrong arch
[19:35:52] <xelapond> Oh, file says it's 64 bit
[19:35:57] <rue_house> bingo
[19:36:05] <xelapond> alright, i'll compile it myself
[19:36:33] <rue_house> you have a problem if your ubuntu is deciding to download 64 bit programs to a 32 bit system
[19:37:06] <Landon> I think the gavrasm site doesn't provide a 32 bit executable
[19:37:09] <Landon> the link is mislabelled
[19:37:30] <xelapond> No, I downloaded it from the gavrasm site
[19:37:35] <xelapond> It's not in apt
[19:37:47] <xelapond> The link is mislabeled like landon said
[19:37:52] <rue_house> hmm
[19:38:03] <rue_house> I'm running 32bit
[19:48:35] <xelapond> got it compiled
[19:48:44] <xelapond> does gavrasm expect low and high or lo8 and hi8?
[19:49:07] <xelapond> for the lines like lo8(RAMEND), etc
[19:49:32] <xelapond> low and high apparently
[19:49:51] <xelapond> Is there a reason to use gavrasm over avr-as or avra?
[20:28:30] <wollw> xelapond: well it seems to be able to read the newer avrassembler2 def files
[20:31:37] <wollw> though I guess avra does too it just wanrs about ignoring pragma lines
[20:32:02] <xelapond> yeah, i ran into that problem earlier
[20:32:24] <wollw> it still seems to assemble okay though
[20:32:59] <xelapond> mine raised a bunch of errors
[20:33:10] <xelapond> it didn't know what #pragma meant and gave up
[20:33:18] <wollw> huh
[20:33:25] <wollw> what version?
[20:33:39] <xelapond> 1.2.3
[20:33:43] <wollw> ah
[20:33:45] <wollw> i'm using 1.3.0
[20:33:51] <Tom_itx> are the def files different in studio 5.1 over studio4?
[20:33:51] <xelapond> ah, makes sense
[20:33:56] <xelapond> this says it's from 2007
[20:34:46] <wollw> Tom_itx: I don't know much about AVR Studio but there is an AvrAssembler and AvrAssembler2 in my Atmel folder
[20:34:58] * wollw only installed AVR Studio for those includes.
[20:35:22] <iR0b0t1> Will avr-gcc work with some of the more powerful chips, like the 32 bit AVRs?
[20:35:26] <wollw> AvrAssembler2 has a different set of headers and for more MCUs
[20:35:33] <Tom_itx> well i think they started using gcc in studio 5
[20:35:50] <iR0b0t1> Like, have the headers or includes been made for them?
[20:36:12] <Tom_itx> no idea
[20:36:20] <iR0b0t1> Hm
[20:36:38] <wollw> http://www.atmel.com/tools/ATMELAVRTOOLCHAIN3_2_3FORWINDOWS.aspx
[20:36:40] <Tom_itx> does studio 5 support avr32?
[20:36:51] <Tom_itx> supposedly they started using gcc in 5
[20:37:08] <iR0b0t1> Well... It's AVR studio, doesn't Atmel publish that?
[20:37:09] <wollw> avrfreaks links to that
[20:39:43] <jadew> wth, avrgcc doesn't support default arguments?
[20:41:25] <jadew> as in int test(int x = 10) { return x; }
[20:42:00] <xelapond> that's not a part of standard c syntax, is it?
[20:42:05] <jadew> were default arguments introduced in c++ only?
[20:42:08] <xelapond> i've never seen that before
[20:42:08] <jadew> ah ha
[20:42:08] <xelapond> yeah
[20:42:36] <jadew> thanks, I thought that might be it, but I was kinda expecting it to work
[20:42:39] <wollw> avr-g++ compiles with default args fine btw
[20:42:52] <jadew> yeah, I'd hope so
[20:43:09] <jadew> will go ++
[20:44:06] <jadew> what's the last version of C?
[20:44:11] <wollw> c11
[20:44:24] <jadew> you mean it was out last year?
[20:44:27] <wollw> yep
[20:44:34] <jadew> interresting
[20:44:37] <wollw> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_(C_standard_revision)
[20:45:05] <wollw> granted not even c99 is fully supported by most compilers
[20:45:35] <jadew> I haven't used C in ages really, until I started working with avr's
[20:46:08] <jadew> it's interresting that they didn't try to pimp it up at all
[20:46:16] * wollw is thankful for that.
[20:46:39] <wollw> I think I have C++ to thank for that too.
[20:46:56] <jadew> yeah, I think they wanted to keep a clear cut between them
[20:49:14] <jadew> I can't wait for c++11 to be decently supported by compilers
[20:49:34] <wollw> I found myself using some lambdas the other day
[20:50:10] <jadew> heh, yeah, I've been using them from the boost library till now, having them natively will sure help
[20:50:29] <xelapond> they added lambdas to c++11?
[20:50:33] <jadew> yep
[20:50:38] <xelapond> oh man that's cool
[20:50:46] <wollw> I'm taking CS classes for the first time right now, I took intro programming last semester and i'm taking a data structures and algorithms class this semester.
[20:50:53] <wollw> I think I missed like 5 points last semester
[20:51:00] <wollw> perfect score so far this semester :]
[20:51:03] <xelapond> Do you mind if i ask where?
[20:51:10] <wollw> local junior college
[20:51:16] <wollw> Santa Rosa Junior College
[20:51:21] <xelapond> oh ok
[20:52:00] <jadew> the first time I quit college was because some retard teacher failed me at computer architecutre
[20:52:19] <jadew> after I corrected some of the test questions, during the exam
[20:52:48] <jadew> one was badly formulated (stupidly formulated actually) and another one was waiting for a wrong answer
[20:53:17] <jadew> then at the oral exam he asked me what's on the motherboard... I was like... chips, slots
[20:53:42] <wollw> anyway i mentioned it because we had to make a linked list class and do somethings with it and i made a map function. after making it a template passing lambdas was the easiest way to pass functions without defining a function for each type
[20:53:49] <nevyn> jadew: what did he want?
[20:53:50] <jadew> he failed me for that! I was supposed to say ram, bridges, the CPU, the BIOS ROM
[20:54:22] <nevyn> power conditioning logic
[20:54:33] <nevyn> lots and lots of isolating capacitors
[20:54:36] <wollw> jadew: I've found that often times you have to just give them the answer they want :|
[20:54:38] <jadew> he asked me several times, but it just didn't cross my mind that he wanted to hear that... I mean.. wth, who doesn't know that?
[20:54:44] <wollw> ah
[20:55:23] <xelapond> that seems like an odd subject to have an oral exam for
[20:55:30] <jadew> indeed
[20:56:03] <jadew> after a year I decided to give it another try and ended up learning AI from his wife
[20:56:21] <jadew> she was teaching students, which were about to start coding in c++ to start iterrating from 1
[20:56:28] <wollw> ~_~
[20:56:29] <nevyn> jadew: did he ask you what's this? and point at something?
[20:56:44] <jadew> I got pissed off, so I confronted her in front of 300 people
[20:56:47] <nevyn> eww itterating
[20:56:58] <jadew> nevyn, no
[20:57:10] <jadew> a short while after that I quit
[20:57:13] <nevyn> tail recursion ftw ;)
[20:57:28] <jadew> oh, not to mention the #include <iostream.h> and shit like that
[20:57:42] <wollw> is iostream.h even standard?
[20:57:44] <nevyn> iostreams never worked for me.
[20:57:47] <jadew> it's like... I was seeing those stupid teachers training my future retard colegues
[20:57:51] <nevyn> it is in C++
[20:57:58] <wollw> nevyn: even with the suffix?
[20:58:06] * wollw knows iostream is standard
[20:58:27] <jadew> wollw, don't know if it's standard, but it should work and it's effect is that it also does uses std;
[20:58:32] <jadew> which polutes the global scope
[20:58:40] <wollw> ah, right
[20:58:51] <jadew> *using
[20:59:08] <wollw> well my installation of gcc complains about not finding iostream.h
[20:59:24] <jadew> that's good
[20:59:45] * wollw doesn't feel like he is missing out/.
[20:59:47] <jadew> I saw lots of books using it like that too
[21:01:09] <jadew> the 3rd time I quit collage was not because of the CS teachers :P because I went to an engineering college and we didn't do much programming the first year :P
[21:02:12] <jadew> it was because of the phisics teacher
[21:02:32] <jadew> I should go back and stick to it
[21:03:06] <jadew> *college, my spelling sucks at this hour, sorry
[21:04:05] * wollw dropped out of school first because of mental health issues.
[21:04:06] <nevyn> wollw: do you have libg++-dev installed or whatever it is stdc++lib or something
[21:04:24] * wollw installing now
[21:05:15] <wollw> still complains after install libg++-dev
[21:05:34] <wollw> <iostream> works btw
[21:05:41] <wollw> it's just <iostream.h>
[21:06:03] <jadew> weird
[21:06:08] <jadew> I never used it like that anyway
[21:06:19] * wollw never wants to
[21:07:15] <wollw> I believe that before the standardization they did use the .h suffix
[21:07:37] <wollw> and it's basically a legacy thing
[21:07:44] <nevyn> oh.
[21:07:52] <nevyn> right cause it's #include <stdio>
[21:08:03] <nevyn> but #include /usr/lib/stdio.h
[21:08:12] <wollw> it's #include <stdio.h>
[21:08:25] <nevyn> it is?
[21:08:25] <wollw> or, in c++ you can use <cstdio>
[21:08:26] <nevyn> hrm
[21:08:36] <wollw> they dropped the .h in the c++ standard
[21:08:39] <nevyn> I hate libraries
[21:09:26] <jadew> libraries are your best friend
[21:10:04] <nevyn> sometimes
[21:11:18] <jadew> there are few cases in which I had to make my own implementation of things
[21:51:23] <xelapond> is there a good site that explains the difference between branching, jumping and calling?
[21:51:30] <xelapond> i can't find a good place on avr-beginners
[21:54:18] <serp__> doesnt the instruction listing explain it_
[22:08:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-tutor.html#goto
[22:20:34] <jadew> shouldn't the SPI master pull SS down?
[22:20:39] <jadew> during a transfer?
[22:20:51] <Tom_itx> it's not automatic
[22:21:03] <jadew> oh
[22:21:08] <Tom_itx> i don't think anyway
[22:21:24] <Tom_itx> simply because you can have multiple slaves
[22:21:28] <jadew> thing is, if I pull it down externally, it sists being master
[22:22:51] <jadew> ok, so in order to send data out: 1) you should check if SS is down, if it's down, you wait
[22:24:14] <jadew> if it's not down, you pull it down and then up when you finish, but that doesn't explain how you can have multiple slaves
[22:24:37] <jadew> cuz you would have to pull down a different pin and that leaves you open for becoming slave to another device
[22:24:42] <Tom_itx> use separate io for the others
[22:24:58] <jadew> that's what I mean
[22:25:13] <Tom_itx> not if you're set to master mode
[22:25:29] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried multi master SPI
[22:25:51] <jadew> consider this:
[22:25:55] <jadew> pin 1 = SS
[22:25:59] <Tom_itx> it just sounds like a bad idea
[22:26:03] <jadew> pin 2 = other slave's SS
[22:26:22] <jadew> if you pull down pin 2 and start writing
[22:26:23] <Tom_itx> pin 1 would be output though
[22:26:27] <Tom_itx> not input
[22:26:43] <Tom_itx> in master mode
[22:26:45] <jadew> that would imply that you can't switch roles
[22:27:01] <Tom_itx> if you change the ddrx and spi mode you can
[22:27:15] <Tom_itx> if you're expecting to be a slave set it that way
[22:27:22] <Tom_itx> after you're done being a master
[22:27:29] <jadew> hmm
[22:28:18] <Tom_itx> i'm not saying it can't be done but it leaves alot of room for errors
[22:28:44] <jadew> I'm not even trying to do it really, just trying to understand the protocol
[22:29:27] <Tom_itx> do it then you will understand it better
[22:29:29] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:30:02] <jadew> well, I'm having trouble sending out data
[22:30:45] <jadew> so my MCU is configured as a master, I have an external pull-up on SS, configured as input
[22:30:55] <jadew> sending data out works fine
[22:31:03] <Tom_L> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc32017.pdf
[22:31:17] <Tom_L> look that over
[22:31:19] <jadew> but SS doesn't get pulled down automatically
[22:31:37] <jadew> setting SS as output and setting it either high or low, prevents me from sending data
[22:31:48] <jadew> because it automatically switches the MCU in slave mode
[22:31:50] <Tom_L> look that over
[22:32:00] <jadew> checking it out
[22:32:13] <Tom_L> :/
[22:32:18] <Tom_L> that's 32bit
[22:32:19] <Tom_L> dammit
[22:32:59] <Tom_L> the theory should still apply
[22:33:18] <Tom_L> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8057.pdf
[22:33:23] <Tom_L> there's one on the xmegas
[22:34:57] <jadew> reading, altho there was a fairly good explanation in the datasheet of the avr I'm using too
[22:36:31] <Tom_L> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc2557.pdf
[22:36:34] <Tom_L> 8bit
[22:36:52] <Tom_L> sorta spi - uart
[22:37:17] <jadew> the xmega one has more useful info
[22:37:25] <Tom_L> i don't doubt that
[22:39:03] <Tom_itx> ok, i'm out for tonight
[22:39:20] <jadew> night
[22:40:27] <Tom_itx> you get all that goin then you gotta worry about phase and polarity for each device too
[22:41:04] <jadew> yeah, that seems easy to take care of
[22:58:35] <jadew> it all makes sense now
[23:44:37] <TechIsCool> hey everyone what am I doning wrong. All I am trying to do is blink the led on my arduino 328p
http://pastebin.com/tVuc705x
[23:45:18] <xelapond> what's it doing instead of blinking?
[23:45:38] <TechIsCool> nothing not blinking or once it blinked dimmly
[23:46:35] <TechIsCool> xelapond: this blinks really dimly
http://pastebin.com/PiGPv2D3
[23:46:42] <xelapond> are you sure the led is connected to pb5?
[23:46:47] <xelapond> your comment says pb0
[23:47:00] <TechIsCool> ignore the comments yes I am sure I was using an example
[23:47:12] <xelapond> ok
[23:47:57] <TechIsCool> it feels like its not set to output but I am not sure why I thought I had it configured correctly.
[23:48:00] <xelapond> try replacing the ddrb line with DDRB = 0xFF;
[23:48:17] <xelapond> and inside the while just do:
[23:48:21] <xelapond> delay_ms(500);
[23:48:25] <xelapond> PORTB = ~PORTB;
[23:48:27] <xelapond> and see if that works
[23:49:24] <xelapond> that will set every portb pin to an output, and toggle every portb pin every 500 ms
[23:49:50] <xelapond> if that doesn't work my guess is that your avr isn't set to use the oscillator, so it's waiting much longer than you think
[23:50:03] <xelapond> you could test that by waiting 10 ms and see if it blinks
