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[00:26:57] <Roklobsta_> got one what?
[00:27:15] <Roklobsta_> abcminiuser: u there?
[00:37:21] <Roklobsta_> yoiks, is abyone else getting a broken www.atmel.com ?
[00:38:54] <Casper> fubar
[00:41:48] <Roklobsta_> fsck. i wanted to look up some parts
[00:43:57] <Roklobsta_> not good for business
[00:48:39] <Roklobsta_> fixed
[01:26:51] <Roklobsta_> anyone familiar with atiny 4/5/9/10?
[01:30:24] <ziph> infle*x is.
[01:53:20] <Roklobsta_> inflex: hallo
[01:55:27] <inflex> mmm?
[01:58:25] <ziph> Roklobsta_: IRC tag works better when you put the question up front. :)
[02:35:16] <Roklobsta_> WTF Atmel Studio 6 now?!
[03:45:08] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: There?
[03:54:50] <Roklobsta_> what is inflex's URL?
[03:57:40] <inflex> eh? What's the -question- ?
[04:00:32] <theBear> people don't have urls, they have names
[04:03:34] <Roklobsta_> yeah he has a website/shop. i don't recall what it is.
[04:04:05] <Roklobsta_> gosh and I thoght I was just being efficient.
[04:04:34] <CapnKernel> I think I know what it is, I'll see if I can remember it
[04:04:55] <CapnKernel> Ahh, found it:
http://www.nqrc.com/
[04:05:59] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx must be asleep
[04:08:01] <theBear> that doesn't help, just ask the fucking question and he'll answer it
[04:12:30] * inflex waits for the Q
[04:12:42] <inflex> anyhow, I've closed NQRC now
[04:13:20] <theBear> inflex, heh, don't hold yer breath
[04:13:32] <Roklobsta_> oh you closed th site? how come?
[04:13:42] <Roklobsta_> oh i see.
[04:13:46] <Roklobsta_> sorry to hear it
[04:17:27] <Fleck> anyone have tried AD9850? How can i change 2nd channel so that i have 2 different freq. on ch1 and ch2 ?
[04:18:02] <Fleck> now they are the same
[04:20:31] <inflex> theBear: still having to finish up several orders
[04:20:36] <inflex> theBear: but at least I don't have any more building up
[04:20:49] <inflex> theBear: making a lot more $ by fixing people's PCs locally
[04:21:03] <Roklobsta_> inflex: yeah i have considered doing that here too
[04:22:06] <Roklobsta_> the competition isn't all that good from what I can tell
[04:22:11] <theBear> he's never gonna ask
[04:22:23] <Roklobsta_> ask what?
[04:22:31] <theBear> see
[04:22:41] <Roklobsta_> oh ftoomsh
[04:22:51] <inflex> the original question regarding the T4/5/9/10
[04:23:06] <Roklobsta_> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. fsck.
[04:24:23] <Roklobsta_> the sot versions, do you program them in situ or can you get a kind of clamp to let you program them before you solder them on?
[04:25:38] <inflex> I preflash them
[04:25:49] <inflex> using a SOT23-6 gold-plated breakout board
[04:25:56] <Tom_itx> ?
[04:26:00] <Tom_itx> fancy
[04:26:19] <inflex> for dev work, I just rig them up with 32AWG / wirewrap runs off the pins
[04:26:59] <inflex> just have to be careful with these chips though, need about 10K impedence or greater
[04:27:13] <inflex> (on the pins)
[04:29:10] <Tom_itx> it's kinda handy to have the highv adapter to program those too
[04:29:19] <Tom_itx> so you can use all the io
[04:30:52] <inflex> Yep, indeed
[04:30:54] <inflex> just a shame I started using that just as I closed up NQRC
[04:30:54] * inflex wonders if he could sell the business/domain
[04:34:34] <Tom_itx> inflex, you doin ok?
[04:35:38] <inflex> Tom_itx: well, since I started doing computer repairs/service, yes, better.
[04:37:06] <inflex> Tom_itx: massive backlog of financials though to thin out first
[04:37:21] <Tom_itx> all too familiar
[04:37:21] <inflex> Tom_itx: I won't get rich doing this, but I am at least getting an incom,e
[04:37:46] <inflex> I'll leave it to my wife's books for the "rich" part :p
[04:37:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[04:39:07] <inflex> we did okay last week, made $500 in sales
[04:41:11] <inflex> frighteningly, some people make that every HOUR
[04:48:20] <aerkol> hi everyone
[04:48:54] <aerkol> i am trying to compile virtual serial demo that comes with LUFA
[04:49:12] <aerkol> I want to compile this demo for AT32UC3B0256
[04:49:30] <aerkol> I have a ported demo already, it is Dual Virtual Serial Port demo
[04:50:21] <aerkol> in SetupHardware function, this function is used to register for interrupts
[04:50:27] <aerkol> INTC_RegisterGroupHandler(INTC_IRQ_GROUP(AVR32_USBB_IRQ), 1, &USB_GEN_vect);
[04:50:42] <aerkol> when I compile. I am having an error that USB_GEN_vect is not defined
[04:50:52] <aerkol> it seems I am missing a header to include
[04:51:17] <aerkol> does someone have an idea about this issue?
[04:53:18] <jadew> hey guys, are there some experiments I can do to get a grip on inductors? I tried several inductors with different frequencies and didn't manage to attenuate any of them
[05:07:20] <Roklobsta_> inflex: did you press the sot23 onto soe sort of gold pads with your hand or was/is there a clamp?
[05:11:36] <Roklobsta_> jadew: what do you want to know?
[05:11:59] <Roklobsta_> and what frequenciea re you using?
[05:12:16] <jadew> Roklobsta_, I want to see them working so I can get a feeling on how they might be useful
[05:12:39] <jadew> I tried everything from 700Hz to 22khz
[05:13:07] <Roklobsta_> what indictance?
[05:13:36] <jadew> that's the thing, I don't know, I took them out from some old radios and mouses
[05:13:56] <inflex> Roklobsta_: I just use my thumb,yes
[05:14:24] <Roklobsta_> do they have anything written on the?
[05:14:24] <inflex> Roklobsta_: I used to have a fancy clip arrangement... but in the end, threw it all off and just had a retainment U-barrier and my thumb :D
[05:14:41] <jadew> Roklobsta_, no
[05:14:49] <inflex> Roklobsta_: I do the same for my SO8 chips
[05:14:49] <Roklobsta_> most small inductors won't do anything until many MHz.
[05:14:51] <jadew> but I was expecting some sort of result
[05:14:55] <jadew> ah, I see
[05:15:38] <Roklobsta_> for audio frequencies inductors are quite large
[05:15:51] <Roklobsta_> as in the size of a brick
[05:16:04] <jadew> interresting
[05:16:27] <Roklobsta_> well, no that is being disingenious. it depends how the inductors are being used with other components.
[05:16:53] <jadew> I was hoping to find a way of removing the environmental noise from my power source, to get a really clean output
[05:17:11] <Roklobsta_> it's a complex issue.
[05:17:27] <Roklobsta_> just throwing inductors around isn't the complete answer.
[05:18:00] <Roklobsta_> nice
[05:18:17] <Roklobsta_> wow i just snaflled 190g of pringles in 3 mins
[05:18:26] <scuzzy> how can throwing inductors around NOT be the answere?
[05:18:49] <scuzzy> it's the answer to everything
[05:19:23] * theBear throws around some inductors
[05:19:26] <theBear> hmmm... nothing happened
[05:19:41] <scuzzy> Ahhhh, but did you have anything that needed an answer?
[05:19:49] <Roklobsta_> we used 2 Henry inductors in the telephone test industry
[05:20:05] <Roklobsta_> that was to allow DC to pass but cut off all voice.
[05:20:22] <Roklobsta_> a better thing to use now is a gyrator circuit
[05:20:38] <inflex> Roklobsta_: no doubt quite a bit smaller too I imagine
[05:21:00] <Roklobsta_> right.
[05:21:05] <Roklobsta_> and far far lighter
[05:22:02] <Roklobsta_> jadew: what configuration are your inductor test cricuits?
[05:22:30] <Roklobsta_> inflex: what ever made you pursue construction of low resistance meters?
[05:22:48] <jadew> Roklobsta_, series
[05:23:01] <Roklobsta_> what other components?
[05:23:26] <jadew> Roklobsta_, a bypass capacitor, but the results were the same as having the bypass by itself
[05:23:49] <jadew> basically I tried to use the inductor in the position in which you would use a resistor, in a RC filter
[05:25:37] <Roklobsta_> well an L and C alone will make a resonant circuit. You need to be testing with an inductor and resistor.
[05:26:21] <Roklobsta_> I always just go back to circuit theory and turn Cs and Ls in rectangles that have impdance Z.
[05:26:32] <Roklobsta_> for a given frequency.
[05:27:35] <Roklobsta_> put an inductor and resistor in series and look with the CRO at the node where the resistor and inductor join. depending on the value of the resistor you might start to see attenuation at the node.
[05:28:10] <Roklobsta_> when everything is a Z then it's easy to work out.
[05:28:44] <Roklobsta_> do you have a physics or electronics textbook with siple circuit theory involving RLC?
[05:29:04] <jadew> no, I've read a few stuff online
[05:29:06] <Roklobsta_> inductors are useful like capacitors because they store energy
[05:29:47] <Roklobsta_> try to add some caps first to see if that reduces the noise
[05:31:58] <jadew> yeah, a capacitor works
[05:32:55] <Roklobsta_> well, stick with that. adding an inductor in won't help much unless you can better characterise the noise
[05:33:35] <jadew> I see
[05:37:11] <inflex> Tom_itx: other option I was htinking was to polish up my NQRC store engine and sell it to unsuspecting clients
[05:37:15] <Roklobsta_> make sure when you measure anything with your CRO that the ground clip is attached to a ground point as close as possible to the signal you are looking at.
[05:37:34] <jadew> Roklobsta_, I know
[05:37:53] <Roklobsta_> inflex: is the store somethign from scratch or bolted on to concrete5/joomla/blah
[05:48:59] <inflex> Roklobsta_: scratch
[05:49:08] <Roklobsta_> nice
[05:53:20] <inflex> ja, well... sort of nice... a bit too restricted, so I think I'd only be causing a lot of pain for myself if I tried commercialising it
[05:53:30] <inflex> I should convert it all over to SQLite first (for small shops)
[05:53:38] <inflex> right now it runs on PostgreSQL
[05:53:56] <Roklobsta_> ohhh, are you sure?
[05:54:04] <Roklobsta_> i think mysql might be better.
[05:54:10] <Roklobsta_> as it's used so damne dmuch
[05:54:22] <theBear> mysql is a tiny bit heavy, but it IS universally available
[05:54:41] <inflex> no thanks, I did a few years with mySQL... then I migrated to PostgreSQL
[05:54:59] * inflex prefers PostgreSQL, I prefer it overall.
[05:55:22] <theBear> spose it's ok if you got your own server... i stickwith mysql 'cos a couple of 'things' i use don't have other options, and it seems even more wastefull to have multiple db servers in the house
[05:55:38] <inflex> the desire for SQLite though is that you don't have to have the RDBMS setup... aaah, back to the lovely days of SleepyCat and Netware DBs :D
[05:55:58] <Roklobsta_> probably faster too
[05:56:45] <inflex> when you constrain the client base to small situations, people with no more than about 10~100 sales/day, SQLite really doesn't impose too many limitations in terms of lock contentions
[05:57:43] <theBear> 10-100 sales a day and occasional access is far from what even i use db's for, and i'm not a 'big' programming/website guy
[05:57:47] <inflex> Sure, if you were dealing with 1/sec, then SQLite would be a disaster
[05:58:15] <inflex> but for the target audience, I'd be amazed if they pulled more than 10 sales a day.
[05:58:51] <inflex> actually, the weakest point on using SQLite for the anticipated group would be like the stupidly badly written joins in my code.
[05:59:50] <theBear> hehe
[06:00:37] <inflex> A case of "Oh I cannot think of an intelligent way of doing this, so I'm just going to write a big fat join... might include a 3rd table too, why not!"
[06:01:17] <theBear> hehe, yeah, we all been there... for us, web programming just isn't that important :)
[06:01:54] <inflex> Anyhow, while it's an interesting idea, I don't think I could really do it justice
[06:02:36] <inflex> OpenCommerce otoh is "okay" but certainly shows its generic limitations; but at least it has all the required features
[06:03:38] <inflex> well, no one is going for my Marantz CD63 + PM57 combo on the local sale forums :(
[06:04:32] * inflex loves the sound out of the CD63... but I just don't have any speakers to match the combo any more
[06:04:48] <inflex> ( I did have KEF Q30 units)
[06:27:01] <Roklobsta_> what's the typical pc fix up where you are? snake removal?
[06:28:24] <inflex> lol... dust cleanup, usual AV setup, patches for the OS
[06:28:52] <Roklobsta_> oh at what, $80ph?
[06:30:27] <inflex> close enough to that, yep
[06:32:25] <Roklobsta_> now you have me thinking.
[07:20:23] <SmashCat> Hi, anyone here have experience of AVR chips losing data from EEPROM between resets/restarts? Got an ATMega2560 that is sporadically losing data (a counter) and setting it to some random value. The EEPROM hasn't been written more than a few hundred times.
[07:21:26] <theBear> tried 'checking' the data before reboot ?
[07:22:03] <amee2k> don't reprogramming cycles screw up the eeprom with some programmers?
[07:22:23] <amee2k> i vaguely recall reading something along that line somewhere
[07:22:32] <ziph> s
[07:22:39] <SmashCat> It've added a test to the initializer function - it just counts to 20, setting the EEPROM location to that value, then reading it back out and it's fine. Then I reset, and it comes up with a random value.
[07:22:41] <ziph> SmashCat: Are you driving anything inductive with it?
[07:22:58] <SmashCat> ziph: Nope, it's totally disconnected to check this issue
[07:23:26] <ziph> SmashCat: You've just got an AVR with a good supply and nothing else connected to it?
[07:23:27] <SmashCat> (this is an ADK board, btw)
[07:23:49] <SmashCat> ziph: Yes, a 12v power supply, USB for the serial monitor
[07:24:33] <ziph> Ah, sounds like it isn't a supply issue.
[07:24:45] <ziph> You might want to make sure the BOD is enabled.
[07:25:01] <Roklobsta_> after you write it in the code do you verify it?
[07:25:07] <SmashCat> ziph: No, I did wonder that myself (not enough power)
[07:25:35] <SmashCat> Roklobsta: Yes, I am writing to EEPROM, then reading the same location and checking it matches the input during the loop
[07:25:38] <ziph> SmashCat: Put the BOD on if you don't have it, I've seen chips jump into EEPROM routines and kill the data that way during brown out.
[07:26:26] <SmashCat> ziph: Hmm ok. I don't think that's the issue here, but still.
[07:26:30] <ziph> SmashCat: One test might be to assert RESET without interrupting VCC and seeing if it dies then.
[07:28:09] <SmashCat> ziph: That's the normal operation from the reset switch on this board, isn't it? The chip is soldered on here, so I can't test it in isolation
[07:28:32] <ziph> SmashCat: Yeap, probably. It dies just when you hit the reset switch?
[07:29:09] <SmashCat> ziph: No, it loses the data via the reset switch or when restarting the serial console (which causes a reset via software)
[07:29:21] <SmashCat> (or if I power it off/on)
[07:29:34] <ziph> How do you reset in software? Intentionally trigger the watchdog timer?
[07:30:34] <SmashCat> ziph: Don't know - it's part of the hardware on the board I think. When the USB disconnects/reconnects it resets
[07:32:04] <SmashCat> It's made me a bit skeptical about using the EEPROM on the MCU though. Probably worth buying external EEPROMs and using them instead I think
[07:32:07] <ziph> Another thing to try is to write 0x0000, 0x0001, etc for all 4k of the EEPROM and see what you get back.
[07:32:20] <ziph> Nah, they're fine usually.
[07:32:31] <ziph> Another option though is just using one of the flash blocks on the MCU.
[07:32:50] <ziph> (See what you get back after a reboot)
[07:32:57] <SmashCat> ziph: I did one test like that - writing to every location and it came back ok during the test, then gave a random value after restart
[07:33:07] <ziph> A random value in every location?
[07:33:45] <SmashCat> I was just writing the low byte of the counter to the location, then reading it to check during the loop - no errors during the loop
[07:38:14] <Tom_itx> replace the backup battery
[07:38:22] <Tom_itx> :O
[07:38:30] <SmashCat> err ;-)
[07:39:25] <ziph> SmashCat: I don't understand what you mean exactly, but you want it to program all locations with known values and then print them all out to see what kind of corruption you have.
[07:39:34] <SmashCat> Ah! Think I've found it
[07:40:00] <SmashCat> If I add a 1 second delay at startup then it reads the value from EEPROM fine.
[07:40:40] <SmashCat> As soon as I remove the delay, it returns a random value again
[07:48:10] <SmashCat> Cool, it's working every time now :-) At least I learned something new today - hehe!
[07:48:18] <ziph> BOD may fix that too.
[07:50:24] <SmashCat> ziph: Yes, I'll check that too. For now though it's ok - I have 3 units in places where it's difficult to access them, but they can be reprogrammed so adding the delay should help
[07:51:11] <SmashCat> (by that I mean, I can afford to change the firmware, but I don't want to brick any of them by mistake as it'll be hard to exchange them)
[07:52:18] <ziph> SmashCat: I can't recall the details of the AVR BOD but they usually keep reset asserted longer on power on.
[07:52:53] <ziph> SmashCat: If it is that the core is running while the EEPROM doesn't have enough VCC then that may fix it without an arbitrary delay.
[07:54:47] <SmashCat> ziph: Yep, i agree - I'll wait until the units are back and then test them all properly. They're actually in the Google booth at the Mobile world conference in barcelona at the moment, working some "crane" arcade machines using Android tablets :-)
[07:55:58] <ziph> SmashCat: You work at google in the division that does ADK?
[07:56:28] <SmashCat> ziph: I'm doing some projects for them. Will be starting another in a couple of weeks
[07:58:37] <SmashCat> ziph: The reason this issue about the EEPROM appeared was because the machines are keeping count of the number of games and wins in the EEPROM (there's a button inside the case that makes the ADK send the data to the connected tablet to display) - it was reporting weird numbers.
[08:00:18] <ziph> Heh.
[08:00:33] <ziph> What USB stack is the AVR using?
[08:09:41] <SmashCat> ziph: It just uses the ADK fromGoogle - easy to use really.
[08:24:03] <ziph> SmashCat: They wrote their own stack for the AVR?
[08:24:50] <ziph> SmashCat: The author of
http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php hangs about in here--I think he said he was working with someone to get ADK samples into it too.
[08:25:03] <SmashCat> ziph: Yep, it's been out for quite a while. It's called the ADK - there's a special version of the Arduino Mega with a USB host and other sensors built in.
[08:27:04] <SmashCat> ziph: There's another board called the ioio that can act as a host for the same type of use with Android too. But obviously since we were working with Google, we used their kit.
[08:32:17] <amee2k> i'm fixing a DMM of mine. a 9.00R 0.5% resistor has gone open. the meter is a generic 830 type and the resistor is apparently part of the shunt for the lower current ranges. any educated guesses if a 9.10R 1% would be an acceptable substitute?
[08:34:18] <amee2k> i could trim it with an 820R in parallel to get 9.00 on the spot
[08:40:22] <amee2k> ooh, nevermind. i just found two 18R ones \o/
[08:53:01] <theBear> ureif, cnc
[08:53:04] <theBear> err, diycnc
[08:53:15] <ureif> too many channels!
[08:53:31] <ureif> there should be just one channel for everything. #everything.
[08:54:41] <theBear> nah, then we'd have to deal with the rifraf even more
[08:54:45] <theBear> err, riff raf
[08:54:54] <theBear> err, i forgot how to spell it, i miss rif :(
[08:57:03] <Sgt_Lemming> evening all
[08:57:22] <theBear> sup
[09:36:10] <OndraSter> hah
[09:36:26] <OndraSter> I think I've figured out the (partial) safety
[09:36:30] <OndraSter> PARTIAL
[09:36:35] <OndraSter> there will be watchdog running ofc
[09:41:26] <OndraSter> and the first thing that happens is that it will set OUTPUT DISABLE to high and enable PWM on this pin with duty cycle of 0
[09:41:49] <OndraSter> but if somebody drives RESET line low for enough time.. :/
[09:41:56] <OndraSter> there is _one_ option how to prevent that aswell
[09:42:28] <OndraSter> give one pin function that it drives the input power lines... and if it goes into reset, all pins will be HiZ
[09:42:39] <OndraSter> and I will change the pulldown on the ENABLE on the SMPS controller to pullup
[09:43:40] <OndraSter> (the enable is active low)
[09:53:07] <dirty_d> whaa
[10:06:17] <TwisteR> hi all, I have a question about ICP unit on ATmega8
[10:07:03] <TwisteR> Is there a way to configure ICP to trigger on level change?
[10:07:41] <TwisteR> I think something like TCCR1B ^= _BV(ICES1) in the interrupt, but dont know, if it is ok...
[10:07:55] <TwisteR> any ideas?
[10:13:36] <dirty_d> you canna capture the counter value on a pin level change?
[10:13:38] <dirty_d> wanna
[10:13:43] <TwisteR> yes
[10:13:47] <dirty_d> yea you can do that
[10:13:52] <dirty_d> it has that mode
[10:14:27] <TwisteR> there only one bit in configuration register -- either rising or falling edge
[10:15:28] <dirty_d> you could also do it yourself with PCINT interrupt on both edges
[10:15:40] <dirty_d> and just manually start/reset/save cnt
[10:15:43] <dirty_d> in the isr
[10:16:15] <dirty_d> like on rising edge, start timer, on falling edge save cnt
[10:16:19] <dirty_d> taht would measure the pulse width
[10:16:23] <dirty_d> if youre trying to do somethign like that
[10:20:20] <TwisteR> I need to measure the duty cycle. So I need to measure both low and high level pulse width
[10:20:41] <TwisteR> there are no PCINT interrupts on atmega8, only on 88
[10:20:44] <TwisteR> IIRC
[10:21:05] <TwisteR> but I got the idea, will use INT0/1 hardware interrupts
[10:24:22] <TwisteR> oh, I was correct about the idea of switching ICES1 flag in the interrupt. There are note on it in the "Using the Input Capture Unit" paragraph of the datasheet :-)
[10:24:37] <dirty_d> yea INT is ok too
[10:24:44] <TwisteR> problem solved, thanks!
[10:24:46] <dirty_d> cool
[11:48:09] <CapnKernel> Am I missing anything?
[11:48:52] <dirty_d> you could be
[11:55:16] <CapnKernel> I shipped cyanide his boards tonight :-)
[11:56:06] <dirty_d> whaaaa
[11:56:35] <CapnKernel> ?
[12:00:14] <Steffanx> What's the name of your shop CapnKernel ? iSeeed? :P
[12:00:32] <dirty_d> you make pcbs?
[12:00:49] <Steffanx> I think some chinese do for him
[12:01:15] <Steffanx> do it
[12:01:49] <CapnKernel> You send me gerber files, as both Sgt_Lemming and cyanide have done, and I'll have them fabbed.
[12:03:18] <CapnKernel> They told me about their boards in a PM session, and I gave them an instant quote
[12:03:39] <CapnKernel> Unlike the other folks around here, there's no limit on board size or shape, and the min qty is 5.
[12:04:13] <Steffanx> 3x3m? :P
[12:04:53] <CapnKernel> To take it literally, you've asked for a 9m board, with no second dimension :P
[12:04:58] <dirty_d> CapnKernel, whats the cost?
[12:05:04] <dirty_d> per sq inch or whatever
[12:05:08] <CapnKernel> That depends entirely on the board
[12:05:20] <CapnKernel> Finish type, layers, colour, e-test, etc
[12:05:38] <CapnKernel> I'll ask you a few quick questions, you tell me, I'll quote you
[12:05:56] <dirty_d> probably more than dorkbox right?
[12:06:03] <dirty_d> because less volume
[12:06:35] <CapnKernel> That's quite an assumption
[12:07:06] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming and cyanide are both very budget conscious folks
[12:08:12] <dirty_d> how much would five simple 2"x2" two-layer boards be approximately?
[12:14:17] <CapnKernel> So I PMed dirty_d and he ran away!
[12:15:16] <Steffanx> hehe
[12:15:31] <CapnKernel> Maybe he fainted
[12:17:29] <RikusW> how much was it ?
[12:17:44] <CapnKernel> He never told me the details of his board
[12:20:11] <Steffanx> dirty_d !
[12:20:26] <dirty_d> sup
[12:20:47] <Steffanx> Tha sky
[12:24:22] <dirty_d> indeed
[12:47:25] <Steffanx> CapnKernel can do 0.8mm board too?
[12:47:30] <Steffanx> boards
[12:48:05] <CapnKernel> Short answer: yes. Wait.
[12:52:19] <CapnKernel> Steffanx: Board thicknesses: 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0 1.2 1.6 2.0
[12:52:27] <Steffanx> 0.4? :D
[12:52:30] <CapnKernel> 1.6 is standard (and cheapest)
[12:52:35] <CapnKernel> That's what it says
[12:52:55] <CapnKernel> dirty_d: back yet?
[12:53:07] <dirty_d> I am
[12:53:22] <abcminiuser> Have you all downloaded Atmel Studio 6 yet?
[12:53:34] <CapnKernel> abcminiuser: What would one run it on?
[12:53:35] <specing> WTF is atmel hyperreleasing?
[12:53:43] <abcminiuser> CapnKernel, windows
[12:53:46] <Steffanx> No, I use ARM's from atmel abcminiuser
[12:53:48] <CapnKernel> What's that?
[12:53:57] <abcminiuser> It's a re-branded AVRStudio 5.1 with ARM support, essentially
[12:53:58] <Steffanx> *don't use
[12:54:01] <abcminiuser> Plus a few other features
[12:54:16] <CapnKernel> Windows: Never heard of it.
[12:55:14] <Steffanx> The cortex-mx from Atmel really have NO advantage over the cortex-mX's from other manufacturers ..
[12:56:37] <abcminiuser> CapnKernel, har har
[12:56:40] <abcminiuser> Steffanx, a sexy free IDE?
[12:56:52] <Steffanx> And windows only :)
[12:58:15] <RikusW> AS6 ?!
[12:58:45] <Steffanx> That's right
[13:03:55] <dirty_d> Steffanx, how much harder is it to use an arm than avr?
[13:06:30] <specing> dirty_d: Not much harder
[13:06:50] <dirty_d> what do you need to get started?
[13:06:59] <specing> dirty_d: Instead of setting DDRB to 1, you have to change about 5 registers in a PIO controller
[13:07:43] <specing> dirty_d: An ARM, a crystal, 2 caps and a stable 3.3V supply
[13:07:54] <dirty_d> what type of programmer?
[13:08:03] <dirty_d> so they usually dont have an internal clock?
[13:08:15] <dirty_d> not that its a big deal
[13:08:33] <Steffanx> Or just an lpcxpresso, stm32f4/vl/l discovery .. or one of the other boards :)
[13:08:57] <dirty_d> i like starting from scratch
[13:09:03] <dirty_d> ive never used any dev boards
[13:09:10] <Steffanx> I think most of the 'simple' ones have an internal RC
[13:09:19] <GuShH> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKMoVAObbhE
[13:09:25] <GuShH> oops wrong channel.
[13:09:34] <Steffanx> My EAARS
[13:10:07] <specing> dirty_d: Some have usb bootloaders
[13:10:34] <specing> so you need 1x USB plug and 2* resistor
[13:10:55] <dirty_d> is there a standard programming interface?
[13:12:50] <cyanide> my first board,
http://i.imgur.com/QU0oN.jpg :)
[13:12:55] <cyanide> CapnKernel ^^
[13:13:49] <dirty_d> nice, what is it?
[13:13:51] <CapnKernel> I really got to get a better phone :-)
[13:13:57] <dirty_d> i might order some too, the price is right
[13:14:13] <cyanide> its for honda civic ecus
[13:14:28] <CapnKernel> I have a Honda Civic
[13:14:35] <cyanide> which year?
[13:14:48] <CapnKernel> 1990: Pre-ECUs :-)
[13:15:00] <cyanide> 1990 has obd0 :)
[13:15:04] <CapnKernel> But I love it. Still lots of fun to drive.
[13:15:05] <cyanide> it should have an ecu lol
[13:15:09] <cyanide> unless yours is carbed
[13:15:17] <CapnKernel> Yeah, dual carb
[13:15:29] <CapnKernel> 16 valve 1.6L
[13:15:38] <cyanide> ooh. nice
[13:15:46] <CapnKernel> Done nearly 300,000km.
[13:15:46] <cyanide> one sec, let me see which engine it has
[13:16:22] <specing> cyanide: How many boards do you have there?
[13:16:29] <cyanide> 30
[13:16:38] <dirty_d> specing, do you have a model number i can look up of a simple one youve used?
[13:16:42] <specing> And how much did you pay for it all?
[13:16:48] <cyanide> about 30 usd
[13:17:03] <cyanide> dont remember the exact cost right now, give or take a couple of bucks
[13:17:24] <cyanide> CapnKernel, it should have a d16a6?
[13:17:25] <specing> dirty_d: I haven't used anything; I only run Linux on a AT91SAM9260; I have looked into into SAM3S, but then decided not to pursue that due to lack of time
[13:17:35] <dirty_d> oh, ok
[13:17:41] <cyanide> im not sure, but that engine has a STOUT bottom end :)
[13:18:00] <dirty_d> cyanide, whats this board do for the ecu?
[13:18:13] <cyanide> im quite sure that's the same engine which broke the world record for the first sub 9 second quarter mile
[13:18:36] <CapnKernel> Well if it comes to stout bottom ends, I confess, I like big butts.
[13:19:15] <cyanide> it had a cast iron crank girdle unlike the newer ones which were of aluminium
[13:20:14] <cyanide> dirty_d, measures the rpm using one of the distributor signals. based on that, a bunch of functions like rpm leds (f1 style), variable length intake system, adjustable rear spoiler control, etc
[13:20:36] <dirty_d> cool
[13:20:45] <cyanide> it mounts inside the ecu casing, on the board itself
[13:21:03] <dirty_d> i was going to make something for my mustang to alter the MAF signal to enable a sort of lean burn mode while cruising
[13:21:06] <CapnKernel> It makes your rice taste twice as nice
[13:21:33] <cyanide> your engine should be able to take lean burn
[13:21:47] <cyanide> ive run my engines at afrs of upto 19:1
[13:21:50] <dirty_d> yea, as long as i only use it while the output power is low
[13:22:10] <dirty_d> it shouldnt be able to overheat when its only putting out 20HP on the highway
[13:22:29] <dirty_d> i probably wont be able to get it too low without it missing though
[13:22:43] <cyanide> true. but it shouldnt detonate even though the cylinder pressures at 20 hp would be pretty small
[13:22:45] <dirty_d> big wide open cylinders
[13:22:57] <dirty_d> right
[13:23:06] <cyanide> bigger the bore, bigger the chance of detonation
[13:23:12] <dirty_d> yea and missing
[13:23:21] <CapnKernel> cyanide's "day job is building racing engines"
[13:23:30] <dirty_d> is it really?
[13:23:32] <cyanide> lol
[13:23:37] <cyanide> yea
[13:23:43] <dirty_d> thats cool
[13:23:48] <CapnKernel> isn't it
[13:24:18] <CapnKernel> I'm a save-the-planet greenie and even I've got a woodie thinking about it
[13:24:41] <dirty_d> I want to build an electric car, batteries are pretty much the only thing stopping me
[13:25:59] <cyanide> that's our racecar
http://i.imgur.com/k12Pq.jpg
[13:26:19] <cyanide> and that's me sitting in the car, checking the engine datalogs
http://i.imgur.com/FCrnq.jpg
[13:27:48] <CapnKernel> So cool
[13:28:02] <dirty_d> how many horsepower>
[13:28:04] <dirty_d> ?
[13:28:12] <CapnKernel> cyanide: In the pic of your boards, you can see where I poked through the power jack to make sure it would fit :-)
[13:28:37] <CapnKernel> And your package has one of the DC power jacks to try. Make sure the centre pin is right
[13:28:51] <cyanide> around 200 whp, so about 230 at the crank
[13:28:54] <cyanide> from a 1.5l engine
[13:28:57] <cyanide> cool
[13:29:14] <amee2k> turbo?
[13:29:28] <amee2k> or NA
[13:29:28] <cyanide> nope, naturally aspirated
[13:29:35] <amee2k> nice work :)
[13:29:39] <CapnKernel> fully sick
[13:29:44] <cyanide> thanks :)
[13:31:04] <dirty_d> how did you manage 230hp n/a?
[13:31:16] <dirty_d> my mustang was 225hp stock
[13:31:19] <dirty_d> and thats 5 liters
[13:31:22] <cyanide> haha
[13:31:55] <dirty_d> 230 at how many rpms?
[13:32:07] <amee2k> i bet your mustang engine could do 1khp+ if you really wanted to :P
[13:32:10] <cyanide> 9500 rpm. and everything except the head and block casting are non-stock and mostly custom work
[13:32:26] <dirty_d> amee2k, with turbo yea
[13:32:27] <CapnKernel> Woah, way past stock redline
[13:32:29] <dirty_d> a BIG turbo
[13:32:38] <dirty_d> and new everything
[13:32:38] <cyanide> stock is 7100 on our engines
[13:32:52] <Kevin`> a mustang isn't exactly designed for peak performance ;p
[13:33:02] <dirty_d> its pretty old tech
[13:33:10] <amee2k> dirty_d: or you swap all the insides for custom machined stuff so you can rev it on end
[13:33:11] <cyanide> the championship rules stipulate that the engine block and head casting must not be imported from outside the country. the internals are free
[13:33:18] <dirty_d> amee2k, yea
[13:33:52] <amee2k> which is what they apparently did
[13:34:44] <dirty_d> uhhg, ive never gotten a question answered on avrfreaks.net
[13:34:44] <dirty_d> lol
[13:34:46] <cyanide> the connecting rods are stock and the crank was just lightened a tad bit
[13:34:48] <amee2k> 1.6l track engines for formula atlantic managed 250hp NA at >10krpm with titanium conrods and stuff
[13:35:37] <cyanide> the world record for the same displacement honda engine that we used is about 250 hp at the crank, which is the same engine CapnKernel probably has in his civic lol
[13:35:39] <amee2k> BMW S65 pulls 440+hp stock out of a 4l V8 at 8300rpm iirc
[13:36:58] <dirty_d> have any of you guys used the xmegas pulse width capture?
[13:37:08] <CapnKernel> Shut up, we're talking cars here!
[13:37:11] <dirty_d> lol
[13:37:14] <amee2k> what he said
[13:37:16] <amee2k> >_<
[13:37:18] <CapnKernel> (sorry dirty_d)
[13:37:26] <cyanide> lol
[13:37:26] <dirty_d> i gotta get my mustang back on the road
[13:37:34] * amee2k idly starts throwing spark plugs at dirty_d
[13:37:49] <dirty_d> just needs a new door handle and ignition ciol maybe
[13:37:55] <CapnKernel> Anyway guys, half past 3 am, waaay past time for me to turn in.
[13:37:57] <dirty_d> i put gt40p heads in it last summer
[13:38:06] <dirty_d> on the sidewalk, lol
[13:38:18] <amee2k> CapnKernel: somehow our sleep cycles are like 180° out of phase :P
[13:38:27] <CapnKernel> cyanide's last package from me took a week, so dude, in a week's time you should have some sweet board magic on your doorstep
[13:38:41] <amee2k> but you should only be like 6 hours ahead of me
[13:38:45] <dirty_d> i ended up having to buy new headers too, what a pain in the ass
[13:38:51] <CapnKernel> Oh no I should have been in bed three hours ago. But it's too much fun talking on #avr :-)
[13:38:59] <amee2k> haha
[13:39:15] <cyanide> CapnKernel, send me the quote for the bom tomorrow once you wake up. will send over the money
[13:39:18] <cyanide> good night!
[13:39:57] <amee2k> CapnKernel: well, i didn't get much done today anyway so i'll probably poke you tomorrow or the day after. i also came across some notes of mine and may have a special mission for you too... still gotta run some numbers on it too
[13:40:14] <_abc_> Is anyone here using imavr avr simulator? Comments? Is it good?
[13:40:19] <_abc_> (as good as it looks?)
[13:40:21] * amee2k idly fakes _abc_'s name
[13:40:27] <dirty_d> i used it, it was good for what i had to use it for
[13:40:30] * _abc_ idly ignores amee2k
[13:40:39] <amee2k> mission successful \o/
[13:40:39] <dirty_d> which was just timing how long code took to run
[13:40:39] <CapnKernel> I got the polyfuse quote today, it'll be about the same as before, but too tired tonight
[13:40:44] <_abc_> dirty_d: okay, which means? Good, bad, ugly?
[13:40:53] <dirty_d> perfect for what i needed
[13:40:56] <_abc_> okay
[13:41:00] <cyanide> sure man, get some good sleep. its 1 am here too and ill be crashing in a bit
[13:41:08] <_abc_> dirty_d: Is it decently fast? Realtime or faster?
[13:41:09] <dirty_d> it outputs gtkwave files so you can watch the waveform on pins etc
[13:41:25] <_abc_> dirty_d: ah that is interesting. I will definitely look into that
[13:41:30] <dirty_d> its probably realtime, i didnt check that
[13:41:33] <CapnKernel> Someone else who is amongst us right now in #avr asked me for a quote yesterday. I got prices today but haven't put it together as a quote yet. Tomorrow.
[13:41:52] <_abc_> dirty_d: I mean if you have a 500 msec delay will it take 5 minutes? :/
[13:41:57] <_abc_> dirty_d: to run
[13:41:57] <dirty_d> no
[13:42:00] <_abc_> okay
[13:42:13] <CapnKernel> Night
[13:42:17] <dirty_d> i think they probably designed it to run in realtime
[13:42:26] <dirty_d> so a 500msec delay takes ~500msec on the pc
[13:42:28] <_abc_> dirty_d: I find it pretty much does what I need, first time user of it though
[13:42:39] <_abc_> dirty_d: I assume it depends on the PC's speed?!
[13:42:53] <_abc_> You can't have a computer that is too fast in simulation [tm]
[13:43:03] <dirty_d> _abc_, its probably taken into consideration
[13:43:28] <_abc_> I see. The author hints in the readme that I should Luke I mean use the source.
[13:43:30] <Kevin`> so it's significantly faster than realtime? (should be possible)
[13:43:45] <dirty_d> it may do soemthing like do 1 clock cycle of work, wait for one clock period
[13:43:50] <dirty_d> and repeat
[13:45:49] <dirty_d> but you would probably be looking at the trace output afterward anyhow, so it doesnt really matter how long it actually tales to run
[13:46:00] <dirty_d> the trace output will reflect how long the actual device would have taken
[13:46:27] <cyanide> moving from eagle to altium/protel is scary
[13:46:53] <dirty_d> steep learning curve?
[13:47:44] <cyanide> well yeah. i understand it isnt for hobbyists lol, but still
[13:48:07] <Steffanx> The tool is, the price isn't
[13:48:26] <cyanide> is and isn't what?
[13:48:29] <Kevin`> business stuff is supposed to have an easy learning curve, otherwise why would people buy it vs learning undocumented free stuff
[13:50:00] <Steffanx> for hobbyists cyanide
[13:51:45] <cyanide> just installed it though. i was equally lost the first time i tried eagle :)
[13:52:27] <dirty_d> I need 4 of these bad mothers...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Outrunner-Motor-C5055-KV700-Airplane-model-Free-Shipping-/180810358680?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a19231f98#ht_3594wt_1122
[13:53:39] <RikusW> cyanide: know the feeling, took me quite a while to even get anything done in DXP2004 (earlier version of protel)
[13:55:29] <specing> dirty_d: Oh my
[13:55:49] <dirty_d> i wanna find cheaper though
[13:55:50] <specing> dirty_d: Are you sure your plane will have enaugh batteries to even start those?
[13:56:07] <dirty_d> im going to have 4s 5000mah
[13:56:14] <dirty_d> times 4
[13:56:30] <dirty_d> 15x4 propellers
[13:56:45] <dirty_d> everything is slowly falling into place
[13:57:16] <dirty_d> i have a motor waaaay bigger than that i was going to use for an electric bike
[13:57:27] <dirty_d> it fits in your palm and its 6000W
[13:57:40] <dirty_d> made for rediculously big rc airplanes i guess
[13:58:37] <RikusW> will you be putting safety screens around the props ?
[13:59:17] <RikusW> sounds like it will be dangerous...
[13:59:24] <Steffanx> Dangerous isgood
[13:59:36] <dirty_d> this is actually it running on a controller i made
[13:59:38] <dirty_d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQtVXJVdxR0&context=C308cfe8ADOEgsToPDskKq_ozMY_8oFH6VddMlYaN2
[14:00:06] <RikusW> Steffanx: yeah like having a horses hindleg in the face....
[14:00:14] <dirty_d> RikusW, no i dont think so
[14:00:27] <Steffanx> Ever tried that RikusW ?
[14:00:28] <specing> One day we'll just hear in the news: "Middle aged man decapitated by his home made flying contraption"
[14:00:38] <OndraSter> heh
[14:00:50] <RikusW> Steffanx: it happened last Friday.... had a concussion :/
[14:01:02] <Steffanx> Yay
[14:01:10] <RikusW> dirty_d: so you'll probably keep some distance ?
[14:01:22] <dirty_d> RikusW, absolutely
[14:01:32] <RikusW> Steffanx: was clipping its front hoof, and it decided to jump....
[14:01:45] <RikusW> hitting me on the forehead with the hind hoof
[14:01:54] <dirty_d> middle aged, watch it lol. im 26
[14:02:06] * RikusW saw white and heard ziiiiiinnnnnggg
[14:02:16] <dirty_d> ouch
[14:02:23] <Kevin`> not just distance, stay completely out of the prop's plane
[14:02:31] <RikusW> stayed in bed for 2 days
[14:03:47] <dirty_d> Kevin`, thats going to be difficult
[14:04:08] <dirty_d> well not really i guess as long as i keep it flying over my head
[14:04:24] <dirty_d> but ill want to keep it near the ground while testing it
[14:04:39] <Kevin`> when bench testing and such. can't really avoid in in normal use, but you already know stuff is mostly sane then
[14:05:29] <dirty_d> wow,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw&feature=related
[14:06:04] <dirty_d> im more nervous about hooking up the batteries and stuff while my hands are near 4 giant props
[14:06:24] <specing> LOL
[14:06:31] <specing> I'd be nervous too
[14:06:36] <OndraSter> heh
[14:07:18] <dirty_d> thats awesome
[14:07:37] <dirty_d> looks like 16 props
[14:08:59] * _abc_ had a nylon prop break on a 2.5cc engine. Screwdriver slipped on carburettor while adjusting needle. Prop half was stuck in door frame 5 cm from his temple, and fuselage vibrated so bad I lost sensation in my right hand squeezing it. I was able to stop the engine by squeezing the fuel tube. After that the balsa fuselage had 5 dents in it, from my hand. It never flew after that...
[14:09:43] <dirty_d> damn lol
[14:10:02] <_abc_> Lessons: a) Do NOT use nylon props b) Make sure there is a way to cut off the engine when the radio does not work c) NEVER do this on a balcony which places your eyes in line with the prop disk
[14:10:25] <OndraSter> only 3 lessons to learn from that?
[14:10:36] <Kevin`> the engine should cut off automatically after a period of time with no radio input
[14:10:52] <Kevin`> (if not, fix)
[14:10:52] <OndraSter> yeah, that's the one I was aiming for
[14:11:02] <_abc_> And by 'making sure there is a way to turn the engine off' I do not mean a 1mm hole into which you poke a paperclip and rotate it 3/4 turns, because the whole fuselage and my right hand were a blur due to 24000 rpm on the one bladed prop.
[14:11:39] <_abc_> Something like an E stop button from machine tools, at least 1 inch diameter would work fine, but do not ask me where to put this
[14:11:59] <dirty_d> im not going near it when things are spinning
[14:12:04] <dirty_d> there is no safe place to push anything
[14:13:00] <_abc_> dirty_d: use a broomstick to beat the beast down >:~
[14:13:12] <dirty_d> yea ill do something like that
[14:13:43] <dirty_d> i cant really thing of any safe way to hook the dan batteries up
[14:14:35] <dirty_d> maybe up it on the ground props domw or something
[14:15:28] <Kevin`> the props shouldn't start spinning until you complete an arming sequence from the remote, and they should stop spinning at zero throttle or if you turn off the radio. the 'zero throttle' one is super obvious but i've seen one device where the motors were always on, didn't make any sense
[14:16:09] <Steffanx> It's nice to see them hover ..
[14:19:16] <dirty_d> Kevin`, i mean like if somethng went horribly wrong
[14:19:20] <dirty_d> in the esc for example
[14:19:41] <Kevin`> well that's certainly possible since you are designing it :D
[14:19:51] <dirty_d> im using existing escs
[14:19:52] <dirty_d> lol
[14:20:02] <Kevin`> hopefully it fails in a way that just stops rotating the field and instantly burns out your expensive motor
[14:20:07] <dirty_d> lol
[14:20:17] <dirty_d> thats a cheap motor, a good one would be like $300
[14:20:30] <dirty_d> but its still expensive
[14:21:01] <dirty_d> hopefully i can sell all of this
[14:21:07] <dirty_d> because ill probaby get bored of it
[14:21:33] <dirty_d> i definitly want to lift things way up in the air and drop them on pavement though
[14:21:34] <dirty_d> lol
[14:21:38] <dirty_d> that will be entertaining
[14:21:51] <dirty_d> like an old tv
[14:21:55] <RikusW> take a bottle of water ;)
[14:26:27] <ben1066> wait what
[14:26:29] <ben1066> atmel studio 6
[14:26:31] <ben1066> WHAT
[14:26:46] <ben1066> http://www.atmel.com/microsite/atmel_studio6/default.aspx wow
[14:26:59] <ben1066> that took all of a few motnsh...
[14:28:23] <asteve> that's because the studio sucks
[14:28:29] <OndraSter> what what
[14:28:51] <OndraSter> AVR and ARM together?
[14:28:52] <OndraSter> woot woot
[14:29:26] <ben1066> I liked studio 5...
[14:30:19] <OndraSter> does it have integrated SAM-BA? :P
[14:30:21] <OndraSter> for flashing and testing
[14:30:22] <OndraSter> and such
[14:30:47] <ben1066> havent looked that far :P
[14:31:13] <OndraSter> what about SAM7S series :o)
[14:31:17] <OndraSter> they describe only SAM3 and 4
[14:31:28] <ben1066> Atmel ARM® Cortex™-M
[14:31:37] <OndraSter> Support for Atmel AVR and SAM3, SAM4 devices
[14:31:50] <ben1066> Phew, still vs based
[14:31:53] <ben1066> <3 vs
[14:31:59] <OndraSter> yeah, Visual Studio ftw
[14:32:15] <ben1066> not sure i like the new one
[14:32:49] <ben1066> https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pLP2iApcPziERZzevOi1tjf0g6RJinvoKKYj3wHEsUdXPDLX1xA-mz5NplloQT7olrtoe5ezosYcCTtWO_HwCMg/image1.png?psid=1
[14:32:51] <Kevin`> using that would mean I have to drag in all the other windows stuff too, or a vm, so it'll probably be pretty rare
[14:33:09] <OndraSter> duh ben1066
[14:33:11] <OndraSter> that's weird
[14:33:20] <ben1066> metro :S
[14:33:21] <OndraSter> aren't you missing about 15.99M colors?
[14:33:22] <OndraSter> haha
[14:33:32] <ben1066> xD
[14:34:14] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, heya, it was given notice to me that there is new Atmel Studio 6
[14:34:21] <OndraSter> that supports also ARM Cortex-M series
[14:34:28] <OndraSter> what about supporting AT91SAM7 series?
[14:34:28] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, yup, announced today
[14:34:37] <OndraSter> is it planned at least?
[14:34:45] <abcminiuser_> Not sure, that's managed by the ARM team
[14:34:48] <OndraSter> including flashing/whatever with SAM-BA directly
[14:34:49] <OndraSter> ah
[14:34:57] <OndraSter> our school is now using Keil
[14:34:59] <abcminiuser_> I think we want to get the M3/M4 done first
[14:35:08] <OndraSter> with the external Sam-ba application
[14:35:31] <OndraSter> and we have funny stories about sam-ba at school... when you reset the device, at some occasions it resets the computer with it LOL
[14:37:08] <OndraSter> anyway, nice to see even ARM studio :P
[14:37:09] <OndraSter> from Atmel
[14:38:16] <RikusW> abcminiuser_: will the dragon be able to program arm now ?
[14:38:35] <RikusW> or will a SAM-ICE be required ?
[14:38:36] <OndraSter> haha
[14:38:39] <OndraSter> seriously doubt it
[14:38:41] <OndraSter> SAM-ICE exists?
[14:38:51] <OndraSter> ARMagon!
[14:38:55] <OndraSter> Armaggedon!
[14:39:02] <RikusW> heh
[14:40:05] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, I think that Armaggedon is a good name for ARM version of Dragon, whaddaya say :P
[14:40:21] <OndraSter> but using Dragon even for ARM would be k3wl
[14:40:33] <RikusW> yeah
[14:40:46] <OndraSter> I am afraid that the Dragon is "too cheap" for that though
[14:40:48] <abcminiuser_> Hehe, put it in the Atmel suggestion box :P
[14:40:55] <Kevin`> using a standard jtag interface for avr would be the cool part
[14:40:56] <OndraSter> $49 for proper ARM JTAG? doubt it
[14:41:37] <Kevin`> most arm stuff actually has a public standard for the interface, so it's quite a bit easier than avr
[14:42:08] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:42:13] <OndraSter> still, $49 is too cheap :P
[14:42:25] <OndraSter> maybe AVR ICE 3
[14:42:35] <RikusW> Kevin`: I hacked both mega jtag and debugWire ;)
[14:42:37] <Kevin`> for a vendor device, of course, unless the vendor was sane and realized that they aren't making a profit from that
[14:42:42] <Kevin`> but you don't need those for most avr
[14:42:44] <Kevin`> RikusW: I know :D
[14:42:50] <Kevin`> for most arm, I mean
[14:43:27] <RikusW> only PDI remains....
[14:43:41] <RikusW> but the dragon don't like pdi much :-/
[14:43:48] <OndraSter> dragon can do PDI
[14:43:53] <specing> Does there exist a USB AVR based JTAG for ARMs?
[14:44:00] <RikusW> on newer xmega's...
[14:44:03] <abcminiuser_> specing, yes
[14:44:15] <Kevin`> OndraSter: it can, but they don't want you using it for the parts that have jtag for programming
[14:44:20] <RikusW> OndraSter: won't work with xm128a1
[14:44:25] <RikusW> only in jtag mode
[14:44:32] <Kevin`> specing: probably.. well actually yes, i've seen one
[14:44:42] <OndraSter> wait, I don't get that, RikusW
[14:44:50] <Kevin`> specing: but why not just use one of the synchronous ftdi spi adapters like 99% of vendor jtag use
[14:44:53] <OndraSter> so if it has JTAG, PDI doesn't work?
[14:44:55] <OndraSter> on Dragon
[14:45:11] <RikusW> seems so
[14:45:18] <OndraSter> good enough for me
[14:45:27] <OndraSter> I don't mind using JTAG :)
[14:45:31] <RikusW> atmel said A3 should work with dragon pdi
[14:45:50] <RikusW> OndraSter: unless you disable the jtagfuse....
[14:45:56] <RikusW> and need pdi
[14:46:25] <OndraSter> I don't disable JTAG fuse on anything now
[14:46:34] <OndraSter> I disable JTD bit in MCUCSR
[14:46:35] <specing> So actually I can make myself a $5 JTAG ?
[14:46:48] <RikusW> better that way
[14:46:53] <specing> The builtin JTAG on the AT91 board I have is some windows crap
[14:47:10] <RikusW> specing: my clone is free
[14:47:19] <specing> Though it works and I already used it once to debrick uboot
[14:47:27] <specing> RikusW: does it work for ARMs?
[14:47:34] <RikusW> only mega avr
[14:47:40] <specing> hmm
[14:47:42] <RikusW> jtagice mki
[14:47:56] <specing> Does it work in anything other than avrstudio?
[14:48:00] <specing> OpenOCD?
[14:48:08] <OndraSter> the thing is, mkI supports like 5 devices
[14:48:13] <RikusW> with avarice
[14:48:37] <specing> Ah
[14:48:38] <RikusW> OndraSter: I modified it a bit, so it can program newer avrs too
[14:48:41] <OndraSter> heh
[14:48:54] <RikusW> and somehow as4 lets me
[14:49:07] <OndraSter> program or debug?
[14:49:10] <RikusW> although the one on the web is older
[14:49:14] <RikusW> program only
[14:49:21] <RikusW> debug only the old avrs
[14:49:28] <OndraSter> :/
[14:49:46] <RikusW> should work for debugging with custom GUI
[14:49:54] <RikusW> or hacked avarice
[14:50:06] <RikusW> the OCD stuff is about the same afaik
[15:00:32] <dirty_d> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8278
[15:00:41] <dirty_d> so that thing could be used to program atmel arm?
[15:30:46] <Fleck> http://www.mikroe.com/pdf/max232_board_schematic_v100.pdf << those are ceramic or electrolytic?
[15:31:55] <specing> Fleck: Just look in the datasheet, it has the circuit inside
[15:32:10] <Fleck> its not complete afaik
[15:33:10] <specing> Well I took my MAX232 board right out of its datasheet
[15:33:20] <specing> I have 5 blueish caps on it
[15:33:30] <specing> they dont appear elecrolytic
[15:33:37] <Fleck> ;)
[15:34:10] <OndraSter> usually, nF = ones of uF = ceramic
[15:34:15] <OndraSter> sometimes even tens of uF are ceramic
[15:34:20] <OndraSter> they are not as cheap anymore though
[15:34:38] <OndraSter> usually, nF and ones of uF*
[15:34:41] <specing> Fleck: It works :D
[15:34:52] <specing> I think they are 0.1 uF
[15:34:59] <OndraSter> 100nF
[15:35:02] <OndraSter> def ceramic
[15:35:05] <specing> yeah
[15:35:38] <OndraSter> so, our old set top box stopped working 2 days ago
[15:35:46] <OndraSter> the input RF signal is screwed :/
[15:35:58] <OndraSter> I tried de-dusting it all
[15:36:04] <Fleck> there are 10uF
[15:36:15] <OndraSter> probably ceramic
[15:37:01] <Landon> well, I learned that lesson
[15:37:13] * Landon goes to download all the avr-gcc documentation for the next time internet goes out without reason
[15:38:00] <OndraSter> hmm there is RS232 port on the stb
[15:38:07] <OndraSter> I want to find out what can be done with it :P
[15:38:21] <specing> My stb has telnet open :S
[15:38:31] <OndraSter> hehe
[15:38:45] <specing> There is Linux on it; running with 64 megs ram
[15:39:12] <specing> It is the only Linux machine in the house over which I have no control
[15:39:34] <OndraSter> 8MB RAM chips
[15:39:36] <OndraSter> there are two tuners
[15:39:40] <OndraSter> each has 8MB RAM and 1MB flash
[15:42:36] <Landon> OndraSter: my TV has an rs232 port :D
[15:42:52] <Landon> the manual even has a table of contents entry for what can be done with it
[15:43:00] <OndraSter> :D
[15:43:04] <Landon> but the manual actually ends the page before -.-
[15:43:05] <OndraSter> and what can be done with it?
[15:43:20] <Landon> nothing exciting, basically anything the remote can do
[15:43:25] <OndraSter> aha
[15:43:29] <OndraSter> useless eh
[15:43:32] <Landon> I ended up finding the full manual online
[15:43:45] <OndraSter> isn't there hidden mode ?
[15:43:48] <OndraSter> that allows haxing? :P
[15:44:00] <Kevin`> of course there is, but it's hidden
[15:44:47] <Landon> the controls on the tv are just "touchscreen"ish, so it would be nice to make a little box with a "SWITCH TO PC" button :)
[15:45:16] <OndraSter> f:D
[15:48:23] <Landon> http://www.manualowl.com/m/LG/M2762D-PM/Manual/136964 page 90
[16:05:00] <OndraSter> too bad I can't find datasheet for the DVBt decoder controller
[16:05:11] <OndraSter> Cheertek CT212T-LF
[16:08:28] <cyanide> when designing a pcb with polygon flood fill, should i flood fill the orphans with copper or just not have any copper there?
[16:08:58] <cyanide> imo, filling the orphans makes the board look better. but i'd like to know if there are any pros/cons to that
[16:12:38] <OndraSter> hmm I am betting that this unconnected 3pin header is serial
[16:12:41] <OndraSter> rx tx gnd
[16:12:47] <OndraSter> one pin is grounded, I can see that
[16:13:30] <OndraSter> oh well, let's grab multimeter.. :P
[16:13:34] <asteve> the other two pins? gotta be gnd as well
[16:13:44] <OndraSter> one is rx and the other one is tx
[16:13:47] <OndraSter> most likely
[16:13:52] <OndraSter> they are right behind the DB9 connector
[16:13:56] <asteve> you sure they're not both going to ground?
[16:13:59] <OndraSter> that has description "RS232" on the back
[16:14:01] <asteve> how else would they communicate with ....
[16:14:01] <OndraSter> yes
[16:14:11] <OndraSter> regular 3pin serial
[16:14:14] <OndraSter> what's wrong with that?
[16:14:23] <asteve> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UbGtjnluyY&feature=related
[16:14:38] <asteve> all 3 pins have to go to grnd
[16:14:48] <asteve> to communicate with THE DEAD MANS PARTY!
[16:14:54] <OndraSter> ..
[16:15:17] <asteve> not an oingo boingo fan?
[16:16:11] <OndraSter> yep, one is 5.1V and the other one is 1.2V, most likely floating
[16:16:23] <OndraSter> now, which ones are usually pulled up? tx?
[16:26:45] <amee2k> why is it so difficult to find medium capacity / high ripple electrolytics??
[16:27:09] <amee2k> 220uF / 1000mArms seems to be impossible to find
[16:27:23] <asteve> what's mArm?
[16:32:19] <amee2k> asteve: milliampere root mean square
[16:33:02] <amee2k> capacitor ripple current ratings are usually in milliampere
[16:37:07] <Fleck> have you guys checked out this:
https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/
[21:14:40] <rue_house> amee2k, 1000uF/A
[21:14:51] <rue_house> typ
[21:19:54] <Casper> rue_house: not for smps
[21:20:16] <rue_house> more?
[21:20:22] <rue_house> what do you use?
[21:28:39] <Casper> smps use very little, like 1000uF for a 30A supply
[21:48:15] <theBear> caps have less 'time to cover' in a smps
[21:48:39] <theBear> they get topped up maybe 50,000 times a second, maybe more, instead of 50 or 100
[21:53:14] <Casper> 50 to 120
[21:55:01] <theBear> yeah fine
[21:56:29] <nofxx_> Never tryed assembly, just for fun bought a tiny15. Pardon if it's too stupid question, but whre do I find those .inc files?
[21:56:55] <nofxx_> found at12def.inc for tiny12, but feels stupid a empty search of 'at15dev.inc'
[22:07:31] <nofxx_> Anyone got this AVR000.zip lying around on ~/Downloads ?
http://www.attiny.com is off here =/
[22:11:57] <nofxx> Anyone got this 'AVR000.zip' lying around on ~/Downloads? attiny.com is off =/
[22:13:44] <nofxx> Sorry if I posted this already, was is in doubt... having some issues with nickserv*
[22:30:29] <Roklobsta_> GENERALLY SPEAKING, THe higher your SMPS requency the smaller capcitance and inductance you need
