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[00:01:17] <keenerd> Casper: You want NiFe.
[00:02:51] <Valen> Casper: lifepo
[00:02:56] <Valen> A123
[00:04:44] <Valen> A123 is meant to have a 10 year calander life and 3000+cycles to 80%
[00:05:48] <keenerd> NiFe has 50 year life and stays at 100% the whole time.
[00:07:53] <Casper> keenerd: NiFe efficiency is quite low
[00:08:00] <Casper> but atleast have life...
[00:09:29] <Casper> keenerd: find me an inexpensive 24V one able to deliver 60A and have a capacity of 20AH@25A or more :D
[00:10:30] <keenerd> Casper: Won't be inexpensive unless you can find one at a junk dealer who doe snot know what it is.
[00:10:48] <Casper> yeah...
[00:10:57] <Valen> "Due to its low specific energy, poor charge retention, and its high cost of manufacture, other types of rechargeable batteries have displaced the nickel–iron battery in most applications"
[00:11:17] <keenerd> The self discharge is actually better than normal NiMH.
[00:12:17] <keenerd> It did not help that the batteries lasted so long, much harder to stay in business that way ;-)
[00:15:13] <keenerd> Cheapest NiFe 24V system is 120Ah, 15 pounds and $2000 :-(
[00:20:46] <Casper> only 15lbs???
[00:21:57] <Casper> have you forgot a digit?
[00:24:21] <RokLobsta> i wonder if you can recharge a zinc/copper and lemon?
[00:26:02] <Valen> yeh stick it in a new lemon until one of the electrodes gets eaten away
[00:26:23] <keenerd> Casper: Possibly. That could be the per cell weight.
[00:26:50] <keenerd> Tis. It would weigh 300 pounds.
[00:26:57] <RokLobsta> i think I have seena citrus powered web server somewhere....
[02:32:10] <Guest46810> hi
[05:46:25] <specing> norbi: please use bit_is_set(), bit_is_clear() macros in your conditional expressions; I'm not even going to try to read what you wrote up there
[05:47:31] <izua> it's the standard/recommended for your bit_is_clear() puny macros
[05:47:54] <izua> also, iirc that should do it
[05:48:02] <izua> essentially waiting til spif becomes set
[05:48:24] <izua> that bit will always become set after 8 spi clocks, but it might not actually "send" something
[05:48:51] <izua> for example, if your DO line is an input
[05:57:25] <Steffanx> You really like those macro's specing ?!!?
[06:02:10] <RokLobsta> macros are good
[06:02:25] <RokLobsta> readability over trying to be "efficient"
[06:03:13] <RokLobsta> compilers are so good now being clever and writing what you think is fast but hard to understand code is pointless
[06:03:33] <RokLobsta> i feel that about points vs arrays
[06:03:42] <RokLobsta> syntactic sugar is nice
[06:05:49] <norbi> cbi and sbi are macros also defined by me and it is clear if you read the code
[06:06:45] <norbi> did someone used at86rf212 ?
[06:33:25] <izua> register & (1 << mask) is pretty easy to read, if you work in embedded
[06:34:04] <izua> but macros shouldn't bring any slowdown, though.
[06:37:41] <Tom_itx> cbi and sbi are depreciated macros that were dropped from gcc ages ago iirc
[06:40:17] * Steffanx agrees with izua
[06:41:13] <Tom_itx> i didn't look at his code
[06:43:23] <Tom_itx> SBI A, b Set Bit in I/O Register I/O(A, b) ? 1 None 2 1
[06:43:23] <Tom_itx> CBI A, b Clear Bit in I/O Register I/O(A, b) ? 0 None 2 1
[06:43:32] <Tom_itx> in the asm user manual
[06:43:45] <Tom_itx> err instruction set
[06:47:44] <norbi> Tom_itx: but those are defined by me, not by the gcc
[06:48:35] <Tom_itx> i'm just saying they were already defined in atmel's asm so there could be a possibility of conflict
[06:48:54] <norbi> im trying to comunicate with at86rf212 but every return value from it is 0xFF
[06:49:19] <Tom_itx> spi?
[06:50:28] <norbi> Tom_itx: yes
[06:50:43] <Tom_itx> any app notes on the at86RF212 on atmel?
[06:50:47] <norbi> i was accessing register 0x1C, 0x1E
[06:50:51] <norbi> same response
[06:51:23] <Tom_itx> it's so nice to have a LA
[06:51:34] <norbi> LA?
[06:51:42] <Tom_itx> but i don't think the parts are communicating
[06:51:48] <Tom_itx> logic analizer
[06:53:51] <Tom_itx> check your wiring over closely first
[06:53:51] <norbi> Tom_itx: can you please take a look at the code?
[06:53:56] <Tom_itx> not now
[06:53:59] <norbi> Tom_itx: the wiring is fine
[06:54:17] <Tom_itx> you would stake your firstborn on that?
[06:57:23] <Tom_itx> you need a way to verify the signal on miso mosi are in fact good solid signals
[06:58:13] <Tom_itx> and are cpol etc set to the right polarity etc
[06:59:33] <Tom_itx> is DDRx 1<<mosi set?
[06:59:47] <RokLobsta> god how does anyone do embedded work without a cro?
[06:59:58] <Tom_itx> they use leds
[07:00:12] <RokLobsta> leds are limited
[07:00:19] <Tom_itx> i would hope so
[07:00:24] <Tom_itx> otherwise they'd burn up
[07:01:20] <Tom_itx> yeah i know what you meant...
[07:02:28] <norbi> RokLobsta: cro?
[07:02:37] <RokLobsta> oscilloscope
[07:02:42] <norbi> RokLobsta: i have one
[07:02:43] <RokLobsta> so you can see wtf is going on
[07:03:34] <Tom_itx> they sometimes introduce capacitance too
[07:03:39] <norbi> RokLobsta: the problem is with init of the device...
[07:04:13] <Tom_itx> that should be an easy fix then if you have isolated the problem
[07:04:19] <norbi> i cant understand the logic of this device, the datasheet is not bad but not really usefull when it comes about register description, it doesnt have content table, and structured description
[07:04:33] <RokLobsta> yeah but not at levels that are of concern on AVR
[07:04:49] <norbi> RokLobsta: ?
[07:05:04] <Tom_itx> norbi, that was to me
[07:05:05] <RokLobsta> capacitance of cro leads
[07:05:08] <norbi> ah
[07:06:12] <norbi> here is the code of smbdy would like to take a look at it:
http://pastebin.com/Da7sAdnz
[07:06:16] <Steffanx> How do you get from the word 'oscilloscope' to 'cro' ?!
[07:06:25] <norbi> its messy a bit because im trying to debug
[07:06:28] <Tom_itx> cathode ray oscillo
[07:06:49] <Steffanx> Oh, the old scopes
[07:06:54] <Tom_itx> (one of the old ones)
[07:07:14] <Steffanx> For me everything not digital is old :P
[07:07:28] <Tom_itx> i am digital
[07:07:41] <Tom_itx> brb
[07:07:41] <Steffanx> You wish
[07:22:57] <norbi> guys, ddrb is fine, spi is init, but still not getting it comunicating
[07:22:59] <norbi> interesting
[07:26:07] <norbi> miso is high all the time..
[07:27:02] <norbi> after connecting the device is high, before is low
[07:29:33] <Tom_itx> you shouldn't need it but try adding a weak pulldown
[07:31:40] <norbi> Tom_itx: no need, the breakout has everything it needs
[07:31:47] <norbi> here is a problem of init spi
[07:32:01] <norbi> automatically as i connected the rf
[07:32:10] <norbi> on miso is high
[07:32:22] <Steffanx> Which device is it norbi ?
[07:33:06] <Tom_itx> zlog
[07:33:45] <Tom_itx> at86RF212
[07:33:50] <Steffanx> Tom_itx that log is annoying.. it uses your local time :P
[07:33:56] <norbi> Steffanx: it is at86rf212
[07:34:22] <Tom_itx> Steffanx, at least you know what time it is here
[07:34:39] <Steffanx> And I know you wake up way toooo early
[07:35:00] <Tom_itx> too early for what?
[07:35:15] <Steffanx> For everything
[07:35:20] <norbi> i dont think that it his local time there
[07:35:22] <norbi> :)
[07:35:29] <Tom_itx> it is
[07:36:12] <norbi> Tom_itx: man you need coffe:D
[07:36:42] <Tom_itx> apparently i don't
[07:37:26] <norbi> how is that possible , that miso is high all the time?
[07:37:41] <Tom_itx> the slave isn't making it change
[07:37:50] <Tom_itx> check the SS line
[07:37:55] <Tom_itx> make sure that works
[07:41:53] <norbi> Tom_itx: why the ss line?
[07:42:14] <Tom_itx> if the slave isn't enabled it's not gonna do anything
[07:42:32] <norbi> and it gonna be on miso high?
[07:42:49] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[07:43:25] <OndraSter> heya
[07:43:28] <norbi> heya
[07:44:02] <OndraSter> hmm I have bought something from german ebay
[07:44:09] <OndraSter> they sent me two ads in the box with it
[07:44:12] <OndraSter> but it is all in german LOL
[07:44:17] <OndraSter> ich kann nicht deutsche sprechen
[07:44:18] <Tom_itx> :)
[07:44:35] <OndraSter> I've had German for 4 years on primary school...
[07:44:37] <norbi> ich konte nicht
[07:44:56] <OndraSter> I have English for 10 years now :o)
[07:44:58] <OndraSter> at school
[07:45:25] <norbi> Ich könte nicht Deutsche sprechen! :P
[07:45:34] <norbi> könnte*
[07:46:04] <Steffanx> Mein Deutsch is auch nicht so gut :p
[07:48:20] <Tom_itx> ??? ??????? ??? ????
[07:48:27] <Steffanx> Ja
[07:48:43] <norbi> Warum aus dem deutschen ebay du kaufen?
[07:49:01] <norbi> Du*
[07:49:08] <Tom_itx> because he can
[07:49:12] <norbi> ÉD
[07:49:15] <norbi> :D
[07:49:25] <OndraSter> because germany is right next to me
[07:49:27] <Steffanx> That's my answer Tom_itx !
[07:49:34] <norbi> OndraSter: where are living?
[07:49:39] <OndraSter> me?
[07:49:40] <OndraSter> CZE
[07:49:44] <OndraSter> Prague ftw
[07:49:46] <norbi> ah CZE :)
[07:50:17] <norbi> use google translate and you will pull out your hair
[07:50:54] <OndraSter> haha
[07:50:58] <OndraSter> I don't care for the printed ads really
[07:51:02] <OndraSter> one thing was some moisture level
[07:51:05] <OndraSter> and the other one... who knows
[07:51:48] <Steffanx> Is your German THAT bad?
[07:52:26] <OndraSter> the more appropriate answer would be "it has never been any good"
[07:55:07] <norbi> this should init spi in mode 0 with 4mhz scl on atmega64?
http://pastebin.com/HWxAcexD
[07:55:25] <Tom_itx> mijn Duits is afschuwelijk
[07:55:47] <OndraSter> xD
[07:56:12] <OndraSter> 4MHz?
[07:56:20] <OndraSter> are you using 8MHz RC/xtal?
[07:56:23] <Steffanx> That doesn't look like German Tom_itx :P
[07:56:38] <norbi> let me paste it again
[07:56:40] <norbi> in better form
[07:56:50] <OndraSter> I gotta afk :)
[07:57:50] <norbi> http://codepad.org/Jf89OGAc
[07:58:25] <norbi> so is this a correct spi init for atmega64 with ext 8mhz osci, to set it at 4mhz scl, and mode 0?
[07:58:56] <OndraSter> yes
[07:58:59] <OndraSter> and as a master
[07:59:02] <OndraSter> afk
[07:59:03] <norbi> yes
[07:59:14] <norbi> then still not get what is the problem
[08:07:48] <norbi> the problem is that there is nothing on spi
[08:07:57] <norbi> i think this init is still not good
[08:08:21] <norbi> i have DDRB, spi ports set for output and miso for input
[08:08:34] <norbi> what could be the problem?
[08:39:06] <norbi> what can disable spi?
[08:39:36] <elektrinis> a shark
[08:39:45] <ziph> electric eel?
[08:40:09] <ziph> norbi: You're looking on a scope and not seeing anything?
[08:42:03] <norbi> ziph: exactly
[08:42:11] <norbi> what im seeing is at 10mv
[08:42:17] <norbi> and that should be noise
[08:42:51] <ziph> Yeah, or just an offset error on your scope.
[08:43:07] <norbi> ziph: yea
[08:43:13] <ziph> Or quantization.
[08:43:23] <norbi> my scope is fin i think
[08:43:28] <norbi> fine*
[08:43:45] <norbi> i just calibrated it
[08:43:48] <norbi> so it should work
[08:45:04] <ziph> sbi(DDRB, 0);
[08:45:06] <ziph> Huh?
[08:45:41] <ziph> DDR should be 1 for MOSI.
[08:45:56] <norbi> PB0 is SS
[08:46:26] <norbi> mosi is PB2
[08:46:29] <Sgt_Lemming> night all
[08:46:32] <ziph> You're setting the DDR for MOSI, SCK and CS somewhere else?
[08:46:33] <norbi> night1
[08:47:09] <norbi> DDRB = 0b11110111; //All outputs except miso
[08:47:58] <OndraSter> soldering dust -- check
[08:48:14] <norbi> i have an IO init function that does all of the io init but ive maked sure in spi init that SS is high, because it is active on low
[08:48:43] <norbi> OndraSter: the board is PCB from factory, there is no manual soldering on it
[08:48:44] <ziph> norbi: If you drive MOSI with SPI off does it work?
[08:49:07] <OndraSter> norbi, I ment it as that I finished soldering dirt :)
[08:49:08] <norbi> ziph: lets see
[08:49:10] <OndraSter> 0603 caps
[08:49:19] <norbi> OndraSter: ah
[08:49:36] <norbi> ziph: i will check now, if driving mosi manually does work
[08:49:39] <OndraSter> and are you actually putting some data into SPDR? :D
[08:49:49] <OndraSter> and are you scoping MOSI? :P
[08:53:07] <norbi> yes
[08:53:08] <norbi> it works
[08:53:29] <ziph> Well. you know the driver isn't dead.
[08:53:30] <ziph> :)
[08:53:31] <norbi> im switching mosi manually on/off with 10ms delay
[08:53:43] <ziph> Is SCK low too?
[08:54:02] <norbi> ziph: manually i mean, not sending bytes on it
[08:54:09] <ziph> Yeap.
[08:54:11] <norbi> just using it as GPIO
[08:54:30] <norbi> now i will activate back spi
[08:54:32] <ziph> Turn SPI on now and see if PORTB is still controlling it?
[08:54:36] <norbi> and i will measure sck
[08:54:45] <norbi> ok
[08:55:47] <norbi> ziph: no it doesnt controll it
[08:56:03] <norbi> now there is no on/off with 10ms delay
[08:56:05] <ziph> Well, that means the IO block thinks SPI is on..
[08:56:14] <ziph> See what SCK is doing..
[08:56:18] <norbi> k
[08:56:57] <norbi> nothing
[08:56:59] <norbi> SCK is low
[08:57:20] <ziph> Ok, now try setting CPOL in SPCR and see if SCK idles high..
[08:57:21] <norbi> i mean there is a noise but, nothing like a signal
[08:57:35] <norbi> CPOL=1
[08:57:37] <norbi> k
[08:59:07] <norbi> i think it is high now
[08:59:29] <ziph> Well, the SPI controller is on and talking to the pins then.
[08:59:53] <norbi> but it is high all the time, no clock period appears
[09:00:14] <ziph> Double check that SS is an output too, if it is an input and it isn't high it'll stop data being clocked out.
[09:01:06] <OndraSter> wow
[09:01:13] <norbi> ss is output and it is high all the time
[09:01:18] <OndraSter> input filtering capacitors on SMPS controller are really needed
[09:01:43] <ziph> Only if you want your neighbors TV to work.
[09:01:55] <OndraSter> ziph, not just that
[09:02:14] <OndraSter> without the input 22uF caps it was drawing almost half amp on 12V input, 3.3V output @ 4mA or so
[09:02:16] <norbi> ziph: how could i check next thing now
[09:02:17] <OndraSter> and it was getting REALLY hot
[09:02:20] <OndraSter> and output voltage was far from stable
[09:02:54] <OndraSter> after adding two 22uF caps as said in datasheet, output voltage sits exactly as it should (+- few mV since the resistor feedback isn't precise), 0.00nothing amp on input :P
[09:03:02] <OndraSter> too bad that 22uF caps are so expensive in 1206 package
[09:03:05] <OndraSter> 10V caps...
[09:03:14] <OndraSter> they won't blow on 12V input I hope :D
[09:03:51] <ziph> OndraSter: It might've been killing the controller voltage source.
[09:04:00] <OndraSter> probably
[09:05:48] <ziph> norbi: You could read SPSR to make sure WCOL isn't being set.
[09:08:20] <ziph> (e.g. Write to SPDR and then read WCOL)
[09:11:26] <norbi> ziph: it looks like it does its job now
[09:11:28] <norbi> somehow
[09:11:45] <ziph> Were you waiting for SPIF before?
[09:11:52] <OndraSter> I wish I had a scope :( :(
[09:11:57] <norbi> ziph: ?
[09:12:06] <OndraSter> with 16 channel logic analyzer preferably :)
[09:12:06] <norbi> whad do you mean?
[09:12:22] <ziph> norbi: After you assigned your data do SPDR how were you figuring out when it was sent?
[09:12:49] <norbi> SPDR = byte;
[09:12:49] <norbi> while(!(SPSR & (1<<SPIF)));
[09:12:56] <ziph> OndraSter: Today's low end oscilloscopes cost the fraction of the profit from a black market kidney sale.
[09:13:08] <OndraSter> Rigol DS1052E
[09:13:09] <ziph> Yeap.
[09:13:10] <OndraSter> I know
[09:13:20] <ziph> norbi: Weird.
[09:14:04] <ziph> I hate it when things fix themselves.
[09:15:47] <norbi> yea
[09:15:49] <norbi> weird
[09:16:34] <norbi> lol
[09:16:45] <norbi> one of the rf chips i think is gone
[09:16:58] <norbi> the other gives me correctly the MAN _ID
[09:17:06] <norbi> but what it tried it may be fried
[09:17:54] <ziph> You're using PLL synths or FSK/ASK transceivers?
[09:19:03] <norbi> ziph: no clue, im beginner with these rf's but i think it is PLL even if i dont know what it is
[09:19:48] <ziph> Yeah, if it takes SPI it's most likely a PLL synth or something with a PLL synth inside it.
[09:19:57] <ziph> Or a digital VGA.
[09:28:50] <norbi> i have two of these receivers one is responding with correct value on miso
[09:28:58] <norbi> the other just puts miso on HIGH
[09:29:04] <norbi> is the other dead
[09:29:11] <OndraSter> are you enabling him?
[09:29:35] <norbi> OndraSter: im puting it in place of the other
[09:29:46] <OndraSter> ah
[09:29:48] <OndraSter> okay
[09:29:53] <ziph> Is it high all the time, or just when CE is asserted?
[09:30:47] <norbi> CE?
[09:30:54] <ziph> CE or SS
[09:31:32] <norbi> ah
[09:31:37] <norbi> it is all the time
[09:33:23] <norbi> it is dead probably
[09:33:26] <ziph> MISO should only be driven when SS is asserted, so maybe the SPI part of it is cooked.
[09:34:16] <norbi> ziph: im angry, yesterday figured out that my adxl345 is cooked now the other receiver
[09:34:25] <norbi> what the hack can i do with one receiver?
[09:34:47] <ziph> Look at it while you wait for the next one to come from Digikey. ;)
[09:34:59] <ziph> Do you have more than one IC on the SPI bus?
[09:35:06] <norbi> no
[09:35:23] <ziph> And both chips are the same VCC?
[09:38:29] <norbi> ziph: yes
[09:38:48] <ziph> Hmm, odd then.
[09:39:00] <ziph> Is it super dry where you are? Maybe you're ESDing them to death?
[09:40:48] <norbi> ESD?
[09:41:02] <ziph> Static discharge
[09:41:05] <norbi> ah
[09:41:07] <norbi> maybe
[09:41:16] <norbi> but from now i will be more carefull
[09:41:47] <ziph> Modern components are pretty tough but if it gets really dry you can start having problems.
[09:42:02] <ziph> (It rarely gets that dry here)
[09:43:04] <ziph> Having power applied to IC pins when the IC itself isn't powered can be a problem too.
[09:43:37] <ziph> Not so much on something like an AVR (but you still don't want to do it) but those RFIC's can be fairly high current.
[09:47:49] <norbi> dunno what the hack
[10:09:52] <edmont> hi
[10:09:52] <tobbor> hi edmont.
[10:16:35] <norbi> how can i clean this board?
http://digilent.ro/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,401,815&Prod=PMOD-RF1 it is very little, i measured the pins with the oscope and it looks like it is almost fine, but weak signal, it gives me hope
[10:16:43] <norbi> only miso pin is not reactioning
[10:16:59] <norbi> the other independent pins are working
[10:17:06] <ziph> Clean it?
[10:17:21] <izua> what shop sold that to you? :o
[10:17:31] <norbi> how can i clean it, yes, as im looking at it it looks like something turned on it
[10:17:40] <norbi> solder wax or some liquid thingy
[10:18:01] <norbi> izua: ?
[10:18:07] <ziph> Under water with a toothbrush works fine.
[10:18:15] <izua> where did you purchase that board?
[10:18:17] <ziph> Just make sure you dry it very well after.
[10:18:21] <norbi> ziph: now seriously:P
[10:18:32] <ziph> I'm being serious.
[10:18:45] <ziph> I clean my boards first with a solvent and then under water.
[10:18:46] <norbi> izua: from a friend who was at the same college as me
[10:18:52] <norbi> he told me that they works
[10:19:01] <izua> ah
[10:19:05] <izua> are you from romania perchance?
[10:19:11] <norbi> but it looks like one of it is kinda ... sticky
[10:19:25] <norbi> izua: yea, why?
[10:19:34] <izua> de curiozitate
[10:19:35] <ziph> If you have a solvent designed for cleaning boards, use that. :)
[10:19:46] <norbi> ah
[10:19:48] <norbi> ok:d
[10:20:03] <norbi> ce sa fac cu asta, cred ca a varsat ala ceva pe el
[10:20:21] <norbi> ziph: so you are saying that it can be cleaned with water?
[10:20:23] <izua> isopropyl alcohol. do you have an actual picture of the board?
[10:20:53] <ziph> norbi: Most things can.
[10:20:58] <norbi> izua: no i dont have, and my nikon is at one of my friend in vacation
[10:21:06] <ziph> norbi: If you have poor water quality you might want to use purified water though.
[10:21:27] <ziph> e.g. iron rich bore water might not be the best. :)
[10:21:32] <norbi> ziph: i will try to clean it then
[10:21:36] <norbi> ziph: :D
[10:22:00] <norbi> izua: where are you from? city i mean
[10:22:04] <ziph> You can then use a small fan forced electric heater to run 60 degree or so air over it for a while to make sure it's completely dry.
[10:22:15] <ziph> Or a hair dryer. :)
[10:22:22] <norbi> hair dryer:D
[10:22:27] <izua> bucharest
[10:22:38] <norbi> izua: nice :) im provincial
[10:23:26] <izua> i hate this city, but meh
[10:23:32] <ziph> This must be Romanian hour, I happen to be listening to Angela Gheorghiu.
[10:24:01] <norbi> ziph: ?:D
[10:24:11] <ziph> A Romanian soprano.
[10:24:12] <norbi> Angela Gheoghiu? dunno her
[10:24:14] <norbi> ah
[10:24:43] <ziph> One of the top in the world.
[10:29:02] <izua> she's also rather hot and doesn't exhibit the specific volume of sopranos :p
[10:29:39] <ziph> There aren't all that many big ones around.
[10:30:10] <ziph> Also, all of the ones from that part of the world seem to be hot.
[10:30:52] <norbi> ok used str8 aftershave:D
[10:31:00] <izua> heh
[10:31:01] <norbi> and teeth brush
[10:31:02] <norbi> :d
[10:31:08] <norbi> and hair dryer
[10:31:09] <norbi> lets see
[10:31:12] <izua> remeber that model from rammstein's rosenrott?
[10:31:25] <izua> she was also a local. found this out yesterday >.>
[10:31:46] <pingec> Anyone know what kind of sensor I could use to compare how wet a concrete wall is in different spots?
[10:32:01] <pingec> Theres a leak I'd like to locate :P
[10:32:21] <ziph> Set concrete?
[10:32:26] <pingec> Yeah
[10:32:44] <pingec> I was thinking of drilling holes in it and inserting some probes
[10:32:58] <pingec> But dunno if theres anything cheap I could use and that would work
[10:34:27] <edmont> I bricked some Atmega128RFA1 by a wrong fuses configuration (I programmed the clock source bits with a reserved value)
[10:34:38] <norbi> i think i just killed finally the chip
[10:34:39] <edmont> do you know how to recover them?
[10:35:40] <ziph> pingec: Maybe find what properties of concrete might change when it is wet?
[10:35:55] <ziph> pingec: I can't think of anything that would detect the water itself.
[10:36:25] <norbi> pingec: there are umidity sensors
[10:36:39] <norbi> make holes and put those sensors in it
[10:36:49] <norbi> it will give in percentage
[10:36:53] <pingec> you think it would work?
[10:37:18] <pingec> conductivity certainly changes in concrete
[10:37:21] <ziph> pingec: Wet concrete won't absorb extra water as well as dry concrete, maybe you could use that.
[10:37:24] <pingec> but that would be hard to measure :P
[10:37:29] <izua> hmm
[10:37:36] <izua> i need some timestamp functions on an avr
[10:37:44] <izua> wonder if it's worth implementing them myself
[10:38:12] <norbi> http://www.sparkfun.com/categories/152
[10:38:12] <izua> do timestamps actually carry leap seconds, or you can figure H:i:s simply by dividing to 86400 and using the remainders?
[10:39:02] <pingec> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisture_analysis
[10:39:37] <ziph> High power ultrasonics? :)
[10:41:48] <ziph> The moisture should be on the surface of the concrete too, so surface resistivity might work.
[10:42:06] <pingec> Yeah thats how commercial tools measure
[10:42:19] <ziph> There you go then.
[10:43:17] <pingec> Ill think about that
[10:44:35] <ziph> You could combine that with wetting the surface too.
[10:53:36] <pingec> I think Ill buy some DHT11's first and see if I can detect a difference
[10:54:24] <pingec> dont think it wiil work but ill try it
[10:55:10] <ziph> Is this the flooding basement in the rental?
[10:57:57] <OndraSter> .. next time you are debugging PWM and you are wondering WHY THE HELL IT DOESN'T WORK
[10:58:17] <OndraSter> make sure you connected the debug LED to the right pin... you might be looking at wrong schematics :(
[11:04:00] <OndraSter> anyway, everything seems working
[11:04:05] <OndraSter> gotta put it all together soon
[11:04:07] <OndraSter> this weekend :)
[11:28:14] <OndraSter> duh
[11:28:21] <OndraSter> do you remember me, few days ago, figuring out why SPI doesn't work
[11:28:23] <OndraSter> in mode0
[11:28:24] <OndraSter> well guess what
[11:28:26] <OndraSter> it does now ?!
[11:28:27] <OndraSter> lol
[11:32:29] <mog> woot OndraSter
[11:35:26] <OndraSter> yeah
[11:35:31] <OndraSter> I have NO idea how come that it didn't work before lol
[11:36:24] <OndraSter> but I can change SPDR to 73 (master, DORD, enabled, speed fosc/128)
[11:36:31] <OndraSter> I was smart enough to write three commands:
[11:36:34] <OndraSter> load address
[11:36:35] <OndraSter> write
[11:36:36] <OndraSter> read
[11:36:44] <OndraSter> I can read or write any register :P
[11:36:49] <OndraSter> over serial
[11:36:54] <OndraSter> in ascii "readable" hex
[11:37:20] <OndraSter> just have to read in datasheet each's register address
[11:37:29] <OndraSter> quite cool feature IMHO :P
[11:37:31] <OndraSter> for debugging
[11:38:44] <ziph> What if you use it to write to SPDR?
[11:38:57] <OndraSter> a
[11:38:59] <OndraSter> 2F00
[11:39:02] <OndraSter> w
[11:39:05] <OndraSter> <some hex number>
[11:39:34] <ziph> Oh, the link is over serial.
[11:39:42] <ziph> What happens if you use it to write to the serial data register? ;)
[11:39:43] <OndraSter> yeah
[11:39:49] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:39:56] <OndraSter> it will echo :P
[11:39:58] <OndraSter> probably
[11:40:02] <OndraSter> actually I have no idea
[11:40:08] <ziph> Change the baud rate through it. :)
[11:40:13] <OndraSter> haha
[11:40:26] <ziph> You might need to set it up to do word writes for that though.
[11:40:39] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/1D7r1
[11:40:54] <OndraSter> (I have rotated low and high byte of address lol)
[11:41:12] <OndraSter> fixed in new "debug and testing firmware", haven't uploaded to board yet
[11:41:19] <OndraSter> FYI, it is all raw assembler :P
[11:41:52] <ziph> You should find a nicer chip if you like working in assembler.
[11:41:58] <ziph> Like the MSP430.
[11:42:02] <OndraSter> what's wrong with MEGAs?
[11:42:07] <OndraSter> I know, it is 8bit
[11:42:16] <ziph> Well, that too.
[11:42:35] <ziph> The Blackfin assembly is really nice.
[11:43:38] <ziph> r2 = 16383;
[11:43:39] <ziph> r2 = r2 - r1;
[11:43:39] <ziph> cc = bittst(r0, 14);
[11:43:39] <ziph> if cc r1 = r2;
[11:43:44] <ziph> That's Blackfin assembly.
[11:44:21] <ziph> // Multiply m (0.16) with the angle r1 (0.16), which falls between 0 and 0.25:
[11:44:22] <ziph> r3.h = r2.h * r1.l (fu);
[11:44:22] <ziph> // Change the result (which is no greater than 0.25) to a virtual (0.18):
[11:44:22] <ziph> r3.h = r3.h << 2 (s);
[11:44:37] <OndraSter> yay
[11:44:52] <ziph> The (fu) and (s) are flags to tell it which multiply to use and if << is saturating.
[11:45:26] <ziph> It's like someone realised it's not 1970 when they were designing it.
[11:45:29] <OndraSter> hehe
[11:45:40] <OndraSter> you could do something like this for AVR as well
[11:45:48] <OndraSter> just... write your own avr-asm!
[11:45:55] <ziph> Yeah but that's the official assembler.
[11:46:03] <ziph> The ADI tools and even GNU GAS use it.
[11:46:08] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:49:05] <jadew`> is there a way to write a few bytes of the eeprom with avrdude?
[11:49:22] <jadew`> I don't want my mcu to start with ff in eeprom after a flash
[11:49:56] <OndraSter> dump it in first time and disable (enable?) EERST fuse?
[11:50:23] <jadew`> got it
[11:50:24] <jadew`> thanks
[12:05:12] <norbi> guys, lately what was your interesting projekts? i mean something for hobby
[12:05:40] <OndraSter> my hobby project made it into graduation school project :)
[12:05:58] <norbi> OndraSter: im planing that too:P
[12:06:15] <norbi> OndraSter: and from then you did nothing for hobby?
[12:06:39] <OndraSter> "from then" nothing has happened yet
[12:06:42] <OndraSter> err
[12:06:47] <OndraSter> "from then" hasn't happened yet
[12:06:55] <norbi> ah
[12:07:06] <norbi> and what is it?
[12:07:20] <OndraSter> driving 32x48 dual color LED display :)
[12:07:22] <OndraSter> with mega
[12:07:25] <OndraSter> through USB :P
[12:08:09] <norbi> OndraSter: and you plan to make it an expansion module? you make more of those and expand the resolution
[12:08:11] <norbi> ?
[12:08:30] <OndraSter> it is modulated
[12:08:39] <OndraSter> I can make it into 1024x768, sure lol
[12:08:55] <norbi> ok, i just asked:P
[12:08:56] <jadew`> 32x48, that must be quite expensive
[12:09:14] <OndraSter> $34.5 for the modules
[12:09:22] <OndraSter> and one module even left over :P
[12:10:03] <norbi> you are planning to make money with it?
[12:10:12] <OndraSter> no
[12:10:18] <norbi> why not?
[12:10:27] <OndraSter> who would buy it? :P
[12:10:43] <OndraSter> the only one was our school when they asked me if I could make another piece of this for them
[12:10:47] <OndraSter> for future graduates
[12:10:52] <OndraSter> not sure if graduate is the proper way here
[12:10:56] <OndraSter> I am ending middle (high) school
[12:11:02] <OndraSter> you know, the school you end when you are 19
[12:11:58] <norbi1> i have some of those in my town, a guy made them, he made the first, placed it in one of the best places in the town and companies payed him to put commercials
[12:12:55] <norbi> sh
[12:12:58] <norbi> ah
[12:13:01] <norbi> ok
[12:13:10] <OndraSter> driving 32x48 is something absolutely different than driving 800x600 :P
[12:13:27] <norbi> OndraSter: not much
[12:13:42] <OndraSter> you are doing way, way, way more pixels
[12:14:02] <OndraSter> way, way, way more columns
[12:14:06] <OndraSter> way, way, way more rows :P
[12:14:39] <norbi> OndraSter: you just need something like 80Mips processor
[12:14:56] <OndraSter> the thing is, you need to drive almost whole screen at one time
[12:15:11] <OndraSter> to get as high as possible light
[12:15:17] <norbi> OndraSter: and where do you think is the problem with that?
[12:15:25] <OndraSter> you need a LOT of drivers :P
[12:15:31] <OndraSter> 800x600x3 to be precise
[12:15:59] <norbi> 800*600*3*60
[12:16:03] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:16:22] <OndraSter> you could do probably 800x300x3x60, to get 30 FPS and interleaved mode
[12:16:28] <OndraSter> still
[12:16:33] <OndraSter> it is a LOT of stuff to drive
[12:16:37] <OndraSter> you need decent FPGA :P
[12:16:38] <norbi> OndraSter: fps?
[12:16:43] <OndraSter> 30 FPS is enough
[12:17:02] <norbi> there is no fps
[12:17:06] <OndraSter> frames per second?
[12:17:10] <OndraSter> refreshes per second maybe
[12:17:16] <norbi> yea, but there is 60fps
[12:17:19] <norbi> not 30fps
[12:17:26] <norbi> if you do it VGA
[12:17:44] <OndraSter> hmm right, if it is interleaved, it can draw the current data
[12:18:28] <norbi> and you dont need to make it 800 * 600
[12:18:35] <norbi> 640*480
[12:18:40] <norbi> the minimum vga
[12:18:44] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:18:46] <OndraSter> still a lot
[12:19:10] <OndraSter> http://i.nyx.cz/files/00/00/07/42/742321_64bc6c8d4f3209bc4872.jpg?name=425050_336219486416131_205870159451065_930803_50474634_n.jpg
[12:20:14] <norbi> OndraSter: it is 18Mhz
[12:20:22] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:20:23] <norbi> + 3 colors
[12:20:28] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:21:11] <norbi> you know why it is 18Mhz and not 55, right?
[12:21:32] <OndraSter> (I haven't made the math)
[12:21:57] <norbi> because it is not 640*480*3*60
[12:22:10] <norbi> it is 640*480*60
[12:22:53] <OndraSter> how come? If you are shifting the data, you need to shift 'em in RGB
[12:23:10] <norbi> depends if you will use RGB mixed or R-G-B
[12:23:24] <OndraSter> what difference does it make?
[12:23:42] <norbi> RGB mixed will use for 1 pixel the mixture of the 3 colors
[12:23:55] <OndraSter> how does that work?
[12:24:12] <norbi> R-G-B is an impovization, you can choose, or use R, or G, or B
[12:25:34] <norbi> for example to get orange, you will turn on R and G, that means you will use 2 colors/pixel
[12:25:35] <OndraSter> you still need to independently drive each RGB channel
[12:25:56] <OndraSter> no, you will use 3 colors/pixel and just keep one off completely
[12:26:01] <norbi> but at the improvization you cant mix them, you can choose just R, or G or B, there is no Orange
[12:26:07] <norbi> 1color/pixel
[12:26:20] <OndraSter> I am not following
[12:26:20] <norbi> OndraSter: yea
[12:26:34] <norbi> you will use 3 colors for pixel
[12:26:42] <norbi> in first case, but one is off
[12:26:45] <OndraSter> you still need to shift 3 bits of data per pixel (just raw RGB, not taking in account PWM capable shift PWM registers)
[12:26:51] <norbi> but in second case you will use just 1 color
[12:27:24] <norbi> im not sure you do need
[12:27:47] <norbi> you will process raw data, so you will not make anything
[12:28:03] <OndraSter> how can you "pick" which pixel are you gonna light up if it is serial shift register?
[12:28:12] <norbi> you need 2 processors, one for filtering and mapping, the other to display
[12:28:44] <OndraSter> so one processor for each block of LEDs?
[12:29:02] <OndraSter> I was talking about serial to parallel output registers (with PWM)
[12:29:04] <norbi> yes
[12:29:06] <OndraSter> ah
[12:29:08] <OndraSter> that explains :)
[12:29:11] <norbi> look
[12:29:21] <OndraSter> now I get what you mean
[12:29:24] <norbi> a module does a part of the "map"
[12:29:41] <norbi> that module is not getting vga data
[12:29:41] <OndraSter> but you still need to control all LEDs, you can't just say "okay, here is nothing, we can give more time to the remaining LEDs"
[12:29:46] <norbi> it gets "map" data
[12:30:32] <norbi> you cant give more time to the another leds, because you are using interrupts, not nops between cycles
[12:31:05] <OndraSter> plus you wouldn't get equal "average current" all the time the same
[12:31:24] <norbi> ha?
[12:31:39] <OndraSter> well if you'd lit up only half of the screen for twice the time
[12:31:53] <OndraSter> you'd get higher average current
[12:32:09] <OndraSter> you need to keep exactly the same timing for each "frame"
[12:32:26] <norbi> nooo
[12:32:59] <norbi> each block is lets say 40 * 40 pixels ok?
[12:33:02] <OndraSter> ok
[12:33:30] <norbi> that block, has to refresh 60 times, because your vga frame rate is 60hz
[12:34:27] <norbi> and you have 3 colors
[12:34:54] <norbi> that is 288khz
[12:34:59] <norbi> right?
[12:35:01] <norbi> do the math
[12:35:11] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:35:20] <norbi> how hard is to deal with 288khz?
[12:35:51] <OndraSter> not much
[12:36:07] <norbi> ok, then you have for example
[12:36:28] <norbi> 20 modules like that
[12:36:30] <norbi> or dunno
[12:36:41] <norbi> you need to sync them
[12:36:50] <norbi> how would you do the sync?
[12:36:50] <OndraSter> one master that does the ADC sends the data to each module on its own
[12:36:59] <norbi> no
[12:37:11] <OndraSter> plus sync "enable output" signal
[12:37:49] <norbi> the master needs to have 55 Mhz, as resolution grows he needs more
[12:38:37] <norbi> lets think if there is a possibility to exclude the master
[12:38:51] <norbi> what if
[12:39:04] <norbi> you connect the VGA input to each of the modules...
[12:39:21] <norbi> its easy to make spliter for the vga cable from module to module
[12:39:34] <norbi> then
[12:39:55] <norbi> you w8 for some seconds until they are syncing with the V-SYNC
[12:40:40] <norbi> then each module can have its own number(delay number) and process just its own data from the vga protocol
[12:40:55] <norbi> that would permit to you as big resolution as you wish
[12:41:08] <norbi> at just 1Mhz mcu's
[12:43:23] <norbi> OndraSter: dunno if it really would work
[12:43:29] <norbi> but in my teory it looks fine
[12:44:52] <OndraSter> yeah, you would use some kind of FPGA for each block
[12:45:11] <norbi> OndraSter: but this is just in case you want to use mcu's, there are vga chips, that would save you from all of this
[12:45:12] <OndraSter> the way it works (the mine one) now is that there is bunch (24) serial in-parallel out shift registers
[12:45:15] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:45:16] <norbi> and do an easyest thing
[12:45:30] <OndraSter> that's why I didn't understand your idea originally
[12:45:38] <OndraSter> because each of us was thinking about something else
[12:47:16] <norbi> but here are lot of more people who would come with better ideas
[12:47:18] <norbi> then mine
[12:47:21] <norbi> so ask them
[14:09:07] <OndraSter> guys, when I have Timer3 set up that it doesn't output to OC3* pins (set as output, but as regular GPIO and not overriden by OC function) on the output, but when I externally (or internally) toggle that pin, will it fire up interrupt as OC happened?
[14:09:55] <dirty_d> pin change interrupt?
[14:10:07] <OndraSter> no, OC interrupt
[14:10:18] <OndraSter> OutputCompare A Match Interrupt (for example)
[14:10:40] <Steffanx> Probably not
[14:10:40] <OndraSter> damn Atmel should've included some more features (second SPI for example) instead Atmega103 compatibility mode on mega128a :P
[14:10:42] <dirty_d> it shoulnd have anything to do with what youre doing with the pin if its not set up to output to it right?
[14:10:43] <OndraSter> ok
[14:10:50] <OndraSter> dirty_d, that's what I am hoping for
[14:10:51] <OndraSter> thanks
[14:11:45] <OndraSter> damn I wish there was a way how to fire up events it missed while it was taking care of another interrupt...
[14:11:50] <OndraSter> or at least some kind of log :P
[14:13:37] <dirty_d> doesnt it do that automatically>?
[14:13:48] <OndraSter> as far as I know... nope
[14:14:02] <dirty_d> if an interrupt happens in another interrupt then it should happens after you exit the first one
[14:14:05] <dirty_d> i though
[14:14:12] <OndraSter> if the I flag is disabled (when interrupt is being served), unless you re-enable interrupts again, they do not fire up
[14:14:20] <OndraSter> in default, I flag is taken down when interrupt fires up
[14:14:58] <OndraSter> but I want something that would log all events that happen while I am taking care of an interrupt
[14:15:12] <OndraSter> there is one thing that has to fire up precisely - timer overflow/whatever
[14:15:22] <dirty_d> are you sure it doesnt trigger the missed interrupt when the first exists?
[14:15:27] <OndraSter> yes
[14:15:33] <pingec> Your ISR's are too long if you have that problem :P
[14:16:12] <OndraSter> pingec, I need to dump about 60 bytes through SPI and if some interrupt, such as UART1 data rx, TWI etc fire up, it won't detect them
[14:16:31] <OndraSter> now I have it that timer has an interrupt, then I am always checking for incoming data on UART
[14:16:35] <dirty_d> what if you let the other interrupts interrupt your isr
[14:16:38] <OndraSter> in loop
[14:16:50] <OndraSter> dirty_d, the timer interrupt can not be interrupted :P
[14:17:31] <pingec> I also thought that an interrupte would be queued
[14:17:41] <pingec> they have their own flags...
[14:19:13] <OndraSter> well the other remaining interfaces will be buffered and reported to user
[14:19:23] <OndraSter> probably
[14:19:34] <OndraSter> it is pretty much "open to anything"
[14:19:53] <OndraSter> I am using mega128a just because I can use it as a dev board in future :P
[14:20:13] <dirty_d> yea i thought when an interruopt happens a interrupt line is driven high until the cpu acknowledges it
[14:20:22] <OndraSter> that's x86
[14:20:37] <dirty_d> i thought i read that for avr too though
[14:20:45] <OndraSter> there is bazilion of interrupt sources
[14:22:43] <OndraSter> hey Dean
[14:22:56] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[14:22:57] <ziph> abcminiuser: Hey there.
[14:23:26] <ziph> abcminiuser: Having the CDC interfaces before any funny custom ones seems to make usbser.sys happy by the way.
[14:24:03] <OndraSter> why isn't there "16-bit timer/counter 1 and 3 WITH PWM"
[14:24:12] <OndraSter> I was like "wtf, no pwm?!"
[14:24:24] <OndraSter> whereas timer0 and 2 (8bit ones) have PWM in its title even :P
[14:25:20] <OndraSter> funny thing - if I screw up timing in timer, I will burn LEDs :P
[14:25:47] <OndraSter> I don't think they can hold >60mA for more than 15% duty cycle (rated 90mA for 10% duty cycle)
[14:25:48] <pingec> OndraSter with "missing interrupts" did you mean interrupts of the same kind?
[14:25:53] <OndraSter> no
[14:25:56] <OndraSter> interrupts of different kind
[14:26:03] <OndraSter> I think that xmegas have event log
[14:26:07] <OndraSter> not sure if it is the same thing
[14:26:20] <abcminiuser> ziph, crazy :P
[14:26:34] <pingec> Well all interrupts have their flags
[14:26:42] <pingec> so when global interrupts are reenabld
[14:26:46] <pingec> they do get triggered
[14:26:48] <OndraSter> oh
[14:26:50] <OndraSter> didn't know that
[14:26:50] <ziph> abcminiuser: Yeah, I'm happy though. ;)
[14:26:52] <OndraSter> yay!
[14:27:10] <pingec> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=96402
[14:27:14] <pingec> third post
[14:27:31] <pingec> i googled "avr pending interrupt"
[14:28:02] <OndraSter> ah thanks :)
[14:28:16] <OndraSter> I missed that in the manual, didn't try googling
[14:28:34] <ziph> abcminiuser: Except every time I use a different PID windows permanently reserves the COM ports of the old PID. :)
[14:28:45] <pingec> but you still can't know how many times they were triggered, yeah
[14:29:20] <OndraSter> I think I need to clear COM port numbers as well
[14:29:22] <abcminiuser> ziph, you can remove old devices from the device manager
[14:29:23] <OndraSter> I am now upto number 20 or so
[14:29:29] <abcminiuser> ziph, but you have to use a special mode to do it
[14:29:35] <OndraSter> maybe 19?
[14:30:35] <ziph> abcminiuser: In XP?
[14:30:54] <abcminiuser> ziph, yeah, one sec
[14:31:06] <OndraSter> it is easier through registry
[14:31:11] <OndraSter> http://blog.cognitioninfotech.com/2009/01/how-to-clear-or-reset-com-port.html
[14:31:19] <OndraSter> (should be windows version independent)
[14:31:39] <abcminiuser> ziph,
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/view-nonpresent-devices-in-windows-xps-device-manager/694
[14:31:49] <ziph> abcminiuser: Ta.
[14:37:43] <ziph> Hah.
[14:37:58] <Steffanx> Hoh
[14:38:00] <Steffanx> .
[14:38:02] <ziph> My image builder failed because I finally used a test project that has no data section.
[14:38:16] <Steffanx> Doh.
[14:39:18] <ziph> bss is optional too.
[14:41:44] <dirty_d> OndraSter, "if one or more interrupt conditions occur while the Global Interrupt Enable bit is cleared, the corresponding Interrupt Flag(s) will be set and remembered until the Global Interrupt Enable bit is set, and will then be executed by order of priority."
[14:51:40] <OndraSter> dirty_d, must've missed that... thanks :)
[14:53:37] <dirty_d> no problem, coulda swear i read that before
[14:53:49] <dirty_d> or sworn or something
[14:54:08] <dirty_d> i need a beer
[14:54:31] <OndraSter> I need a beer aswell
[14:54:41] <jadew`> how do you call that aluminium paper?
[14:54:44] <OndraSter> btw, our school is the only place where black = signal and green = GND :(
[14:54:51] <OndraSter> aluminium paper? what about aluminium foil?
[14:54:55] <OndraSter> or is it something else
[14:55:08] <jadew`> yep, that's it, thanks
[14:55:11] <OndraSter> heh
[14:55:12] <OndraSter> np
[14:55:27] <jadew`> wonder if it would make good RF shielding
[14:55:31] <OndraSter> I have failed my design in one point... I forgot about 5V power supply for LED drivers :(
[14:55:48] <OndraSter> I think I will just tap off at main voltage input and put there 7805
[14:55:54] <Tom_itx> woops
[14:55:54] <OndraSter> they will be draining few mAs only...
[14:56:38] <Tom_itx> that's kinda easy to do in eagle since alot of them you need to 'invoke' to get the supply pins visible
[14:56:51] <OndraSter> well my boards are here for some time :P
[14:56:57] <OndraSter> I will mount it into the chassis
[15:04:33] <Kre10s> void do_bob(void){ cli(); *((uint8_t *)0x0000) = 4; *((uint16_t)0x0001) = 2; ... while(1); }
[15:04:41] <Kre10s> can I use memory directly like this?
[15:05:45] <dirty_d> 0x0 is null pointer address
[15:05:58] <dirty_d> you can but why
[15:07:42] <Kre10s> I want to make a function that does not use interrupts, never returns, and has all the memory of the chip available to it.
[15:08:51] <Kre10s> I could even allow certain interrupts, and set up the handlers 'naked' and to only use certain memory, that i reserve for them.
[15:11:25] <Kre10s> basically the chip is in some state, calls this function, and when it does the function resets everything, and does its stuff. kind of like jumping to program start.
[15:17:33] <dirty_d> why cant you do all that without this?
[15:18:49] <Tom_itx> Kre10s, wdt
[15:22:45] <Kre10s> This function i want to create is not main... so it won't have all the code main usually does.
[15:23:29] <Tom_itx> you need a main i believe
[15:23:49] <Kre10s> having the watch dog reset the chip also won't work, because I don't want to go to the reset vector, but elsewhere.
[15:24:47] <Kre10s> I could create another executable, removing the interrupt vector, and patching them together... but i'd rather have it all in one file somehow.
[15:28:28] <OndraSter> guys, have any of you ever reached flash write limit?
[15:30:20] <OndraSter> 10k overwrites...
[15:30:28] <OndraSter> write/erase cycles
[15:31:03] <jadew`> you'd have to program that chip a lot of times
[15:31:08] <OndraSter> yeah
[15:32:06] <jadew`> also, that number is not set in stone
[15:32:12] <OndraSter> I know
[15:32:21] <OndraSter> it should be higher, this is absolute minimum
[15:32:30] <jadew`> yeah
[15:32:55] <jadew`> I'd be more worried about eeprom writes than about flash
[15:33:06] <jadew`> cuz you can reach 100k writes quite fast
[15:33:12] <Tom_itx> don't use it like a hdd then
[15:33:16] <OndraSter> hehe
[15:33:22] <OndraSter> that's what external SD card is for :P
[15:33:32] <jadew`> I delay write the options
[16:18:20] <OndraSter> hmm one can wonder why interrupts are not being processed
[16:18:27] <OndraSter> to later find out he forgot to add SEI
[16:20:55] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:21:09] <OndraSter> the interrupt fires up, but doesn't change the value of one pin... wonder why
[16:21:11] <OndraSter> the direction register is okay
[16:21:23] <OndraSter> (I can see it fires up, because in TIFR register the flag is cleared with I enabled)
[16:29:29] <dirty_d> try setting the min right off the bat to narrow down problems
[16:29:32] <dirty_d> pin*
[16:31:35] <OndraSter> that works
[16:31:50] <dirty_d> what are you making?
[16:32:03] <OndraSter> trying to get internal timer to fire up at about 2kHz
[16:32:09] <OndraSter> using timer0 (8bit)
[16:32:20] <OndraSter> 256 prescaler, interrupt enabled
[16:32:30] <OndraSter> sync ofc
[16:32:35] <OndraSter> it is counting, I can read TCNT0 register
[16:32:39] <OndraSter> and the value is changing
[16:32:43] <dirty_d> yea?
[16:32:53] <dirty_d> the interrupt is firing?
[16:32:54] <OndraSter> I can see the TOVF0 flag being cleared when I enable interrupts
[16:32:54] <OndraSter> yes
[16:33:07] <dirty_d> whats not working, code in the isr?
[16:33:09] <OndraSter> when I disable interrupts the flag stays in 1
[16:33:14] <OndraSter> probably
[16:33:23] <dirty_d> can i see?
[16:33:23] <OndraSter> I must've missed the interrupt number probably
[16:33:58] <OndraSter> the ISR routine?
[16:34:05] <dirty_d> everything i guess
[16:34:16] <OndraSter> I set all of the registers through console
[16:34:31] <dirty_d> whaaaaa
[16:34:55] <OndraSter> yeah, I have the interrupt on wrong offset
[16:34:56] <dirty_d> how/why
[16:35:11] <OndraSter> because RETI takes ONE byte rather two compared to JMP instruction
[16:35:24] <OndraSter> how -- I have "command-line" like "interface" :)
[16:35:29] <OndraSter> that can read from/to anywhere in IO memory space
[16:35:34] <OndraSter> so I say
[16:35:35] <OndraSter> a
[16:35:38] <OndraSter> 0023
[16:35:41] <OndraSter> r
[16:35:46] <dirty_d> oh yuou did it yourself
[16:35:46] <OndraSter> <reads the value from address 0x23>
[16:35:48] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:36:15] <dirty_d> nifty
[16:36:24] <OndraSter> yeah :)
[16:36:24] <dirty_d> is it just for testing?
[16:36:27] <OndraSter> great for testing out stuff
[16:36:30] <dirty_d> ahh
[16:36:37] <OndraSter> I will probably keep it in final product for my teacher to play with it :P
[16:36:51] <dirty_d> whats the final product
[16:37:01] <OndraSter> LED box.
[16:38:07] <dirty_d> cool
[16:38:13] <OndraSter> hah it works now
[16:38:29] <OndraSter> let me take out my counter to see the rate
[16:39:16] <dirty_d> chinese people dont like to answer my questions
[16:39:28] <dirty_d> maybe they dont want to tell me
[16:39:45] <OndraSter> 245Hz says the counter...
[16:39:46] <dirty_d> ive asked like 3 different sites if their RC ESCs use atmegas
[16:39:57] <OndraSter> my math was wrong eh
[16:40:04] <dirty_d> whats the cpu clock?
[16:40:08] <OndraSter> 16MHz
[16:40:16] <OndraSter> I am not setting the TCNT0 register
[16:40:24] <OndraSter> so it will be off by a bit
[16:40:42] <OndraSter> (or I the counter doesn't like non50% duty cycle...)
[16:40:43] <dirty_d> you were aiming for 200Hz?
[16:40:49] <OndraSter> 2kHz actually :D
[16:41:00] <dirty_d> oops left off a 0
[16:41:04] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:41:13] <OndraSter> 0 doesn't matter, it isn't anything :D
[16:41:18] <dirty_d> hah
[16:41:30] <OndraSter> (so lend me 1000 eur and I will return you 100 eur right)
[16:41:41] <dirty_d> yea lol
[16:41:48] <dirty_d> i though you said 256 prescaler
[16:41:54] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:42:05] <dirty_d> tahts 62.5kHz
[16:42:10] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:42:14] <OndraSter> that's weird aswell
[16:43:08] <dirty_d> what avr are you using?
[16:43:12] <OndraSter> 128a
[16:43:15] <OndraSter> mega128a
[16:44:01] <OndraSter> hmm with no prescaling I am getting 50kHz
[16:44:03] <OndraSter> that's weird
[16:44:13] <dirty_d> which tier?
[16:44:15] <dirty_d> timer
[16:44:20] <OndraSter> 0
[16:45:06] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:45:14] <OndraSter> I was using AC switch on counter
[16:45:22] <OndraSter> still, it is 125kHz showing at no prescaler
[16:45:36] <dirty_d> oh i messed up
[16:46:15] <dirty_d> it should be 244khz with no prescaler
[16:46:24] <dirty_d> if top is 65535
[16:47:10] <OndraSter> wtf
[16:47:16] <OndraSter> the counter is saying it wrong
[16:47:27] <dirty_d> whats the duty cycle?
[16:47:30] <OndraSter> with no prescaler it says 62.5kHz
[16:47:32] <OndraSter> heh
[16:47:35] <OndraSter> 0.0nothing :D
[16:47:44] <OndraSter> set, five nops, clear :P
[16:47:54] <dirty_d> huh?
[16:48:03] <OndraSter> because with precaler of 1024 it says 345khz
[16:48:23] <OndraSter> yeah, the meter doesn't like it probably
[16:48:24] <dirty_d> its not gonna work if duty cycle is 0
[16:48:28] <Jan-> hihi avr people :)
[16:48:43] <dirty_d> set the compare register to 32000
[16:48:50] <dirty_d> taht will give about 50%
[16:48:58] <OndraSter> ey Jan- :)
[16:49:00] * Jan- listens to Van Halen
[16:49:02] <Jan-> *air guitar*
[16:49:04] <OndraSter> yay van halen
[16:49:20] <dirty_d> or just 32768 to be exact
[16:49:21] <dirty_d> lol
[16:49:23] <Jan-> umm.... is it sad and pathetic to play air guitar when you actually know how to play the tracks
[16:50:37] <OndraSter> what...
[16:50:41] <OndraSter> I uploaded new code
[16:50:49] <OndraSter> and I am still getting some half megahertz signal...
[16:50:53] <OndraSter> even when the timer is off
[16:50:54] <OndraSter> wtf lol
[16:51:43] <dirty_d> i keep fucking up
[16:52:01] <dirty_d> no prescaler with top of 65535 is 244Hz not kHz
[16:52:14] <OndraSter> heh
[16:52:38] <dirty_d> no prescaler with top of 8000 will give you your 2kHz
[16:52:53] <dirty_d> the nset compare reg to 4000 for 50% pwm at 2kHz
[16:54:53] <dirty_d> OndraSter, youre probably reading bogus readings because the duty cycle is either 0% or 100%
[16:54:58] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:55:00] <dirty_d> nd its just picking up the clock
[16:55:21] <OndraSter> it was actually picking up noise, because I pulled trigger level
[16:55:25] <OndraSter> and pulling = set to 0V
[16:55:26] <OndraSter> :P
[16:55:31] <dirty_d> yea
[16:56:20] <dirty_d> damnit i hate when i cant obtain information
[16:56:52] <OndraSter> no precaler is giving me 62.5kHz
[16:57:02] <OndraSter> 62.508kHz
[16:57:10] <OndraSter> with 50% duty cycle
[16:57:30] <dirty_d> youre in fast PWM mode?
[16:57:37] <OndraSter> I should not be
[16:57:41] <OndraSter> I should be in normal mode
[16:57:47] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:57:52] <OndraSter> WGM01 and WGM00 are 0
[16:58:12] <dirty_d> oh right, youre manually setting the pin in the isr?
[16:58:16] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:58:27] <OndraSter> let me check clock of the mega actually
[16:58:29] <OndraSter> I remember messing with that
[16:59:02] <dirty_d> oh jeez
[16:59:04] <OndraSter> hmm external crystal high frequency
[16:59:07] <OndraSter> that is correct
[16:59:12] <dirty_d> this whole time i thought it was a 16-bit counter
[16:59:17] <OndraSter> heh
[16:59:18] <specing> http://imgur.com/r/Demotivational/IrYP0 happens :D
[16:59:21] <OndraSter> that explains those numbers
[16:59:45] <dirty_d> lol, set prescaler to 32, top to 250
[16:59:49] <dirty_d> taht gives 2khz
[17:00:00] <dirty_d> compare to 125
[17:00:49] <OndraSter> I don't need exactly 2kHz, anything approx works
[17:01:13] <dirty_d> that is exact
[17:01:23] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:01:25] <OndraSter> cool
[17:01:26] <OndraSter> thanks :D
[17:01:30] <dirty_d> did it work?
[17:01:34] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:01:37] <dirty_d> sweet
[17:01:42] <OndraSter> oh I know
[17:01:47] <OndraSter> wait
[17:02:04] <OndraSter> that is 500kHz clock of the timer
[17:02:07] <OndraSter> oh...
[17:02:07] <OndraSter> nvm
[17:02:16] <OndraSter> I forgot to multiply the 2kHz
[17:02:18] <OndraSter> lol
[17:02:24] <OndraSter> and was looking for 2kHz in 16MHz
[17:02:29] <OndraSter> rather selected prescaler
[17:03:09] <OndraSter> and 16000000/256 is those 62.5kHz
[17:03:11] <OndraSter> works lol
[17:03:12] <dirty_d> yea the timer does run at 500kHz
[17:03:18] <OndraSter> I absolutely forgot that it counts to 0xFF
[17:03:23] <OndraSter> rather 01
[17:03:29] <OndraSter> oh well, it is midnight again
[17:03:32] <dirty_d> OndraSter, yea
[17:04:38] <OndraSter> oh and even when compare is 0xFF, it still works for 62.5kHz just fine
[17:04:46] <OndraSter> so problem was just me, not dividing it by 256
[17:05:28] <dirty_d> well divide by whatever top is, 250 in that case
[17:05:37] <OndraSter> I know
[17:05:40] <OndraSter> I absolutely forgot about that
[17:05:46] <dirty_d> me too at first
[17:05:52] <dirty_d> i had a long day, lol
[17:06:09] <OndraSter> haha
[17:06:13] <OndraSter> I had friday at school... enough :P
[17:06:42] <Jan-> I still have requests for a 2 or 3 inch HDMI monitor :/
[17:06:46] <dirty_d> me too, except working
[17:06:49] <Jan-> any suggestions?
[17:06:58] <dirty_d> Jan-, jeez those exist?
[17:07:06] <Jan-> sort of
[17:07:13] <Jan-> they're sold as onboard viewfinders for video cameras, with a loupe
[17:07:18] <Jan-> for about $1000
[17:07:28] <dirty_d> what are you building?
[17:07:45] <Jan-> an onboard viewfinder for a camera, for not $1000 :)
[17:08:10] <dirty_d> im confused, dont they already have viewfinders?
[17:08:22] <Jan-> some of them have sucky awful ones
[17:10:03] <Jan-> or ones that are in the wrong place
[17:10:18] <dirty_d> isnt it just an lcd screen?
[17:10:27] <dirty_d> not like an hdmi signal decoder and crap?
[17:10:27] * Kre10s quickly runs off to find more pretzel sticks
[17:10:59] <OndraSter> btw dirty_d this counter has frequency measurement of 0.1Hz even... it takes 10 secs to calculate the new value (how unexpected, I know!)
[17:11:04] <OndraSter> I got it for 10€
[17:11:11] <OndraSter> in exchange for RJ45 crimping tool :P
[17:11:17] <Jan-> well it needs to accept a signal from somewhere.
[17:11:23] <dirty_d> thats pretty cool
[17:11:24] <Jan-> and the target camera has HDMI output
[17:11:41] <dirty_d> Jan-, ahh makes sense
[17:12:26] <dirty_d> i think i wanna make some kinda power meter
[17:12:40] <dirty_d> nah screw taht i can probably buy one for like $10, lol
[17:12:56] <dirty_d> i got enough work to do still
[17:14:37] <Jan-> There are HDMI decoder chips on the market I guess
[17:14:50] <Jan-> and the rest of it would be FPGA code according to the lcd screen's data shete
[17:15:02] <Jan-> but you'd have to be some sort of ninja
[17:16:02] <Casper> the problem with HDMI is... HDCP
[17:16:23] <OndraSter> why use HDMI? if it is for camera, there is raw signal already
[17:16:30] <OndraSter> so why encode it and decode it immediatily back?
[17:16:31] <Casper> in other words: the thing that they put there to artificially inflate the price...
[17:16:40] <OndraSter> or is it external display
[17:16:44] <Jan-> well it's a commercial camera
[17:16:46] <Jan-> it has hdmi output
[17:16:53] <OndraSter> ah
[17:16:55] <Jan-> that's what it's got, basically
[17:17:02] <OndraSter> I thought you were building camera
[17:17:08] <Jan-> well we sort of are
[17:17:16] <Jan-> but the camera module is an off the shelf unit
[17:18:42] <amee2k> hm... how come that leaded resistors significantly cheaper than SMT >=0805 for some values??
[17:19:20] <amee2k> half watt 8.2R leaded is 2 cent, 1208 is 6 cent
[17:19:38] <OndraSter> half watt 1208 are harder to make?
[17:19:48] <amee2k> half watt *leaded*
[17:20:05] <OndraSter> ah, I thought you wanted even half watt 1208
[17:20:07] <amee2k> oh, its 1210 even
[17:20:20] <amee2k> no, the 1210 is just a 1210 with no power rating at all
[17:20:35] <OndraSter> oh
[17:20:36] <OndraSter> hmm
[17:20:37] <OndraSter> no idea
[17:21:16] <amee2k> for 0.22R, the 1208 was the cheapest that popped up i think
[17:22:26] <Jan-> it's weird sometimes
[17:22:37] <Jan-> such complex and advanced things, like modern phones, can be bought so cheap
[17:22:53] <Jan-> and then you want something slightly special, like a really small HDMI monitor, and the world wants $1million
[17:23:14] <amee2k> 1 cent for a resistor would be ridiculously expensive if you wanted to buy 10k units ;)
[17:23:35] <Casper> Jan-: true
[17:23:49] <amee2k> quantity can do amazing things with prices
[17:23:52] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:23:53] <Jan-> Oh I just had such a cute idea
[17:23:59] <OndraSter> ask CapnKernel, he can supply for awesome prices
[17:24:23] <Jan-> Ooh, CapnKernel lives in electronics stuff central
[17:24:27] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:24:28] <Jan-> I wonder if he has any ideas about tiny displays
[17:24:33] * Jan- pokes at CapnKernel, experimentally
[17:24:45] <Casper> take some HD googles "tv"... which is 2 monitors, one for each eye... 300-400$.... now... same thing but 3D... the only difference is a video splitter at the input.... 1200$ and up
[17:25:01] <amee2k> 0.22R... 1W wirewound is fucking cheaper than a shitty 0603 carbon film resistor >_<
[17:25:10] <Jan-> I was thinking about these tiny pocket projectors
[17:25:17] <Jan-> they could be used to create a viewfinder
[17:25:18] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, talking about displays, have you heard of those Sharp memory LCDs?
[17:25:42] <dirty_d> amee2k, then use one
[17:25:43] <OndraSter> can't get them anywhere with reasonable shipping prices... is there any possibility they are around you? if yes, how much is the pricing? .)
[17:25:45] <OndraSter> they look awesome
[17:25:52] <amee2k> "memory lcd"? like e-ink?
[17:26:00] <OndraSter> don't those tiny pocket projectors use lasers often? :P
[17:26:05] <OndraSter> amee2k, not as quite
[17:26:06] <Jan-> Maybe.
[17:26:17] <Jan-> The ones I found were DLP, which is that reflective thing
[17:26:21] <amee2k> OndraSter: no... my dad once had one but he returned it
[17:26:22] <Jan-> I guess they use an LED light source
[17:26:38] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAoC818Mxy4&context=C32df3f3ADOEgsToPDskLMlU0IbwFIo2soQYcCr3De
[17:26:40] <OndraSter> tis
[17:27:03] <amee2k> OndraSter: they use a 3W LED, something that looks like a mobile phone LCD but half the size and with the backlight removed, and a pretty shit lense molded into a plastic objective
[17:27:16] <amee2k> and the picture looks accordingly ;)
[17:27:25] <OndraSter> no LED in this
[17:27:34] <OndraSter> check that youtube link
[17:27:38] <amee2k> no video on my laptop
[17:27:42] <OndraSter> ..
[17:27:48] <OndraSter> is that some Pentium I
[17:27:53] <amee2k> P3 1000
[17:27:53] <OndraSter> or AMD Phenom X4
[17:27:56] <OndraSter> ah almost
[17:28:09] <amee2k> it used to play DVDs like 3-4 years ago
[17:28:19] <OndraSter> hehe
[17:28:22] <amee2k> now it barely plays SDTV tv rips
[17:28:26] <OndraSter> :D
[17:28:32] <OndraSter> and you have no idea why, right?
[17:28:43] <amee2k> oh, i know why :P
[17:28:44] <OndraSter> I had the same problem on my grandpa's laptop
[17:28:48] <OndraSter> had to get him something better
[17:28:59] <OndraSter> isntead 900MHz P III I gave him 1.7GHz AMD laptop lol
[17:29:01] <OndraSter> from my dad
[17:29:09] <OndraSter> just changed backlight inverter
[17:29:29] <amee2k> same way firefox' ram consumption went from 200MB to 800MB in the same time >_>
[17:29:35] <OndraSter> haha
[17:30:04] <amee2k> i'm probably going to put ubuntu 8.4 or so on it (or whatever the previous LTS was)
[17:30:16] <OndraSter> amee2k,
http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/aboutmemorylcd.html
[17:30:21] <amee2k> thats about period correct and yields decent performance
[17:30:27] <OndraSter> they eat like 10uW when static picture is shown
[17:30:32] <Casper> amee2k: but the web is now 4 times more complex!
[17:30:52] <OndraSter> nah, only 25% more complex
[17:30:53] <amee2k> and it has an ATI video driver that doesn't suck completely
[17:30:56] <OndraSter> HTML4 -> HTML5
[17:31:04] <amee2k> well, my head isn't more complex
[17:31:10] <OndraSter> http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-35-inch-memory-lcd.html
[17:31:24] <OndraSter> I am interested in those 96x96 pixels
[17:31:28] <OndraSter> would make cool watch :)
[17:31:39] <amee2k> hmm interresting... sounds like a weird cross of a plasma display and LCD
[17:31:42] <OndraSter> 6uW power consumption...
[17:32:01] <OndraSter> even battery self discharge is bigger!
[17:32:05] <amee2k> i think that excludes the backlight :P
[17:32:12] <OndraSter> there is no backlight
[17:32:17] <amee2k> exactly
[17:32:20] <OndraSter> haha
[17:35:03] <OndraSter> 43uW attiny13a with 1.8V and 1MHz
[17:35:24] <OndraSter> let's see how low can it go
[17:35:57] <amee2k> hm... i've been contemplating a project that would involve a supercap, a small solar cell, a super low power MCU and an LCD display in a sealed jar
[17:36:05] <OndraSter> 0,0025mA
[17:36:10] <OndraSter> that's 2.5uA
[17:36:15] <OndraSter> *1,8V...
[17:36:24] <OndraSter> 4.5uW
[17:36:24] <OndraSter> in idle
[17:36:27] <OndraSter> sounds about usable
[17:36:27] <amee2k> user input with phototransistors that you can poke with a laser pointer from the outside
[17:37:40] <OndraSter> 0,001mA/32kHz external it says actually
[17:37:46] <OndraSter> 0,006 or so with 128kHz internal
[17:38:35] <OndraSter> not bad
[17:39:30] <amee2k> they don't by chance have samples for these displays?
[17:39:38] <OndraSter> I wish :)
[17:39:57] <OndraSter> hmm 32kHz external oscillator will actually eat way more power than running it on 128kHz oscillator internal
[17:40:56] <OndraSter> http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/ultralowpwrxtlosc1.htm
[17:45:44] <amee2k> CapnKernel: i may have a new mission for you that can take precedence over the LED board project \o/
[17:46:00] <Jan-> I don't think CapnKernel is here :)
[17:46:46] <OndraSter> LED board project, amee2k ?
[17:46:58] <Tom_itx> !seen CapnKernel
[17:46:58] <tobbor> capnkernel is here
[17:47:06] <OndraSter> !last CapnKernel
[17:47:10] <OndraSter> !lastspoke CapnKernel
[17:47:12] <OndraSter> !speak CapnKernel
[17:47:13] <OndraSter> hmm
[17:47:16] <OndraSter> !help
[17:47:18] <OndraSter> nope
[17:47:23] <Tom_itx> give up
[17:47:36] <amee2k> OndraSter: yeah, i'm working on a power LED module board
[17:47:48] <Jan-> Tom_itx: do you happen to know if anyone makes a development board with a tiny TFT screen on it and an HDMI decoder
[17:47:58] <Tom_itx> no
[17:48:01] <OndraSter> amee2k, oh that one...
[17:48:04] <OndraSter> I remember now :)
[17:48:08] <amee2k> hehe :)
[17:49:10] <amee2k> well, since the ballast in that fluo fixture died last week, i want to mod the fixture to run on LEDs
[17:49:43] <Jan-> this is a channel full of SUCH practical ideas!
[17:49:48] <Jan-> I want to make a video display!
[17:49:53] <Jan-> I want to make an LED fluorescent tube!
[17:49:58] <Jan-> I want the world on a stick!
[17:50:05] <Jan-> Oh well, nothing wrong with thinking big I guess :)
[17:50:21] <amee2k> but i'll need to make a tiny, simplified mini version of the board to fit into the fixture for that
[17:50:53] <amee2k> Jan-: well, nothing to do with wanting. i've got complete schematics and parts list and half finished board layout for the LED module board already
[17:51:23] <Jan-> making the circuit boards is always the rub
[17:52:10] <Jan-> especially if you want one
[17:52:16] <Jan-> or rather, especially if you want less than five hundred
[17:52:29] <amee2k> well, CapnKernel seems to have a way to get the board fabricated that won't cost my left nut and my firstborn \o/
[17:52:47] <Jan-> well that's good because not all of us have nuts.
[17:52:49] <Tom_itx> your right nut is the good one anyway
[17:53:24] <amee2k> actually, i've seen places that would make me 20 boards for cheaper than some places wanted for 3 boards
[17:53:35] <Tom_itx> absolutely
[17:53:36] <amee2k> so err, buy 20 and throw 17 in the trash
[17:53:45] <Tom_itx> no no
[17:53:51] <amee2k> why not?
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> sell them to someone you can convince needs to make the same project
[17:54:01] <OndraSter> haha yeah
[17:54:09] <Jan-> ha
[17:54:10] <Jan-> as if
[17:54:16] <amee2k> lol
[17:54:23] <Tom_itx> it can be done
[17:54:23] <amee2k> err sorry, i'm doing this for a hobby
[17:54:31] <Tom_itx> me too
[17:54:31] <amee2k> i don't need to sell boards that don't work lol
[17:54:35] <OndraSter> anyone feeling like devving with mega128a (or any pin compatible), with external 128k SRAM, serial latch and other stuff? :P
[17:54:37] <OndraSter> I SELL TEH BOARDZ!
[17:54:44] <Tom_itx> don't make boards that don't work
[17:54:50] <OndraSter> I have 7 remaining
[17:54:56] <Jan-> you'll make a lot of boards that don't work, before you ever make one that does.
[17:55:03] <amee2k> i won't know if they work until i have them ;)
[17:55:10] <OndraSter> 1 for me, 1 for school, one was used as a test board and later on to see how do the vias look from inside :P
[17:55:20] <keenerd> Tom_itx: Don't say that to mixed signal designers :-(
[17:55:22] <Tom_itx> meanwhile in another channel, dude is trying to melt aluminum cans with a microwave
[17:55:31] <OndraSter> heh
[17:55:32] <Jan-> amee2k: exactly
[17:55:33] <specing> LOL
[17:55:44] <OndraSter> all my boards work so far
[17:55:54] <OndraSter> except the fact that I forgot some pieces there and there :/ :D
[17:56:14] <specing> Meanwhile in ##electronics, they are talking about C/C++ and the linux kernel...
[17:56:23] <amee2k> i'm used to etching or stripe boarding. and i always prototype on solderless boards at least in parts. fast turnaround and easy to fix and make small modifications after the fact. having to settle on a complete circuit without ever seeing anything of it actually working is completely new to me
[17:56:25] <Tom_itx> i refuse to join that one
[17:56:36] <Tom_itx> against flyback's wishes
[17:56:59] <OndraSter> haha ##electronics
[17:57:03] <OndraSter> I heard some bad stuff about that chan
[17:57:12] <specing> My CANUCK counter went way off 30 for today on that channel
[17:57:14] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, you've never been there?
[17:57:16] <amee2k> i have no fucking clue if these boards are going to work
[17:57:20] <OndraSter> lucky me, right Tom_itx
[17:57:23] <Tom_itx> oh my my, you should join and find out first hand
[17:57:34] <OndraSter> I'd rather not have my IP banned
[17:57:37] <Jan-> Someone just called me a genius
[17:57:38] <Tom_itx> i dare you to stay for a week
[17:57:42] <OndraSter> since I share it with few hundreds of other people
[17:57:44] * Jan- files that away for a future moment when she's feeling down
[17:57:48] <amee2k> specing: thats at least a more useful topic than most of the conversation there. at least the last time i used to hang out there :P
[17:58:14] <specing> Jan-: WHERE?
[17:58:20] <Tom_itx> Jan-, it's friday night and there are lots of drunks about
[17:58:22] <amee2k> where the sun don't shine?
[17:58:43] <specing> OndraSter: What?
[17:58:54] <OndraSter> what what, specing
[17:58:55] <Jan-> gee thanks tom
[17:58:58] <Jan-> I know you think I'm a moron
[17:58:58] <specing> OndraSter: How come you share it?
[17:59:01] <keenerd> Dare I ask how big is ##electronics usually is?
[17:59:06] <Jan-> but stake me as you pass why not
[17:59:14] <OndraSter> because my ISP doesn't provide external public IP for everybody
[17:59:17] <Tom_itx> Jan-, no i think you're rather intelligent
[17:59:23] <OndraSter> but NATs all its "customers" within one? :P
[17:59:31] <specing> OndraSter: wtf?
[17:59:31] <OndraSter> 213x192x3x1
[17:59:34] <OndraSter> 213.192.3.1
[17:59:39] <OndraSter> 650 people under one IP
[17:59:41] <OndraSter> how awesome is that
[17:59:46] <specing> OndraSter: They dont even do ipv6?
[17:59:47] <OndraSter> banned on many places :P
[17:59:54] <specing> What ISP are you under?
[18:00:02] <OndraSter> the routers supposedly can do ipv6 but nope, no IPv6 running yet
[18:00:05] <OndraSter> it is not technically ISP
[18:00:14] <keenerd> You don't say.
[18:00:18] <OndraSter> it is community that "also does internet providering"
[18:00:24] <specing> nice
[18:00:28] <OndraSter> internet is the "other" part of it
[18:00:29] <Tom_itx> if you're registered you can have your ip cloaked anyway
[18:00:33] <OndraSter> it is super cheap, no guessing there
[18:00:44] <Tom_itx> dunno how effective that is
[18:00:53] <OndraSter> 14 eur/month, it goes fairly stable
[18:00:53] <specing> OndraSter: And the bandwidth?
[18:00:56] <OndraSter> 16Mbit/16Mbit
[18:01:00] <OndraSter> unlimited FUP
[18:01:00] <specing> Cool
[18:01:06] <OndraSter> (appearntly, they haven't blocked me yet lol)
[18:01:20] <OndraSter> and I have downloaded/uploaded worth of terabytes of data in past few months
[18:01:26] <Jan-> actually that *is* quite a good idea.
[18:01:52] <specing> OndraSter: I have long been thinking of implementing such a network for people around here
[18:02:06] <keenerd> OndraSter: Is there unmetered DC++ between everyone on the LAN? :-)
[18:02:13] <OndraSter> it is
[18:02:16] <OndraSter> but nobody uses it anymore :D
[18:02:27] <OndraSter> unless you have too much free time, know a lot about linux and networking, it is not a good idea specing
[18:02:29] <specing> I guess if all of us went for a single 100/100 line, it would have been much cheaper and better
[18:02:34] <OndraSter> yeah
[18:02:51] <OndraSter> I am still hoping for somebody to lay optics or anything in future 20 - 30 years lol
[18:02:58] <OndraSter> but I WILL BE IN AUSTRALIA BY THAT TIME!
[18:02:58] <Tom_itx> anybody using debian 6.0.4 yet?
[18:03:17] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, let me fire up vmware and update :D
[18:03:29] <specing> OndraSter: Im the national champion in Linux admining and doing Cisco CCNA, does that qualify? :D
[18:03:36] <OndraSter> wow
[18:03:37] <OndraSter> cool
[18:03:38] <OndraSter> yeah it does lol
[18:03:52] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, i just downloaded the image earlier
[18:04:47] <specing> The only problem is free time :(
[18:04:54] <OndraSter> hmm free time
[18:04:55] <OndraSter> what is that
[18:05:02] <OndraSter> I haven't seen/had that for some time now
[18:05:12] <specing> I've had people ask me to set up a server for them, but I simply dont have the time to do it :/
[18:05:36] <keenerd> I can "time free". It says real 0m0.007s.
[18:05:43] <OndraSter> :D
[18:05:44] <specing> :D
[18:07:48] <specing> This battery project (a metaproject for an UPS) has been taking much of my "free" time
[18:09:05] * specing <-- asm volatile ("sleep\n\t" :::);
[18:09:56] <specing> I'll ask you more about your ISP in future :D
[18:11:00] <OndraSter> :D
[18:11:11] <OndraSter> there is one thing I can say you
[18:11:13] <OndraSter> and it is important
[18:11:19] <OndraSter> two main admins are gay.
[18:11:24] <OndraSter> srsly
[18:11:33] <OndraSter> and they act terribly :P
[18:11:42] <OndraSter> now I hope that nobody here is from the same group LOL
[18:11:48] <Tom_itx> maybe you should spank them
[18:11:51] <OndraSter> ..
[18:11:55] <OndraSter> I was expecting something like that
[18:12:01] <Tom_itx> i figured
[18:13:11] <Tom_itx> i should get a better isp
[18:13:26] <Tom_itx> or at least better hosting
[18:15:08] <dirty_d> i should get better than ghettoWiFi(tm)
[18:15:18] <keenerd> Get a VPS if you can. Those things are way too useful for the price.
[18:16:09] * Landon recommends linode for VPS
[18:19:26] <Landon> anyone know of some good eagle libraries? I'm trying to find one for avr chips and HD44780 at the least
[18:20:21] <Tom_itx> get them off the cadsoftusa site
[18:20:32] <Tom_itx> i think i have most of the avr parts save the very latest
[18:20:48] <Tom_itx> the lcd i'm not sure what you're after
[18:21:08] <Tom_itx> the dual pin / single pin pinout?
[18:21:59] <Tom_itx> Landon, take a peek at ref-packages.lbr too. it has quite a few footprints you can use to make parts
[18:22:07] <OndraSter> there is bigger AVR library itself
[18:22:20] <Tom_itx> i think i have 3 or so avr libs
[18:22:27] <Landon> alright, I'll look that up
[18:22:45] <dirty_d> Landon, it already have the avrs no?
[18:22:48] <Landon> single row of 14 pins for the LCD
[18:22:54] <Landon> dirty_d: actually, I haven't checked
[18:23:00] <Landon> I just remembered trying to find a library last time
[18:23:07] <Tom_itx> Landon, i have that one i think
[18:23:16] <Tom_itx> dunno if i made it a lib part though
[18:24:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_sch.png
[18:24:08] <dirty_d> Landon, it probably has both
[18:24:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_brd.png
[18:24:20] <Tom_itx> that's the board for the schematic
[18:24:24] <dirty_d> well i know it has avr
[18:24:44] <Tom_itx> i made it to be kind of a backplane for the lcd
[18:24:57] <Landon> do some AVRs share pinouts/footprints?
[18:25:03] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:25:03] <Landon> like TINY12 and TINY2313
[18:25:10] <dirty_d> lots do
[18:25:11] <Tom_itx> ie 8 48 88 168 328
[18:25:13] <Tom_itx> all the same
[18:25:30] <Landon> fantastic
[18:25:33] <Tom_itx> tiny 4 5 9 10 all sot23-6
[18:34:01] * Jan- mutters
[18:34:16] <Jan-> Latest request: do I know how to build a ballast to run a 200W metal halide lamp.
[18:34:25] * Jan- puts a sign on the door on which it is written "THE DOCTOR IS OUT"
[18:51:05] <OndraSter> Jan-, how should we know if you know it?
[18:52:32] <Jan-> as if
[18:59:52] <LemLap> oh god, is jan ranting/trolling again?
[19:04:57] <Jan-> I've hardly said a word for hours
[19:05:45] <LemLap> well that's a change
[19:05:52] <LemLap> you feeling ok Jan-? :-P
[19:06:52] * Jan- pokes LemLap in the eye with a pencil
[19:06:53] <OndraSter> woman not talking?
[19:06:56] <OndraSter> wow :D
[19:07:04] <LemLap> rofl
[19:08:57] * Jan- sets OndraSter on fire
[19:11:24] <Jan-> in the same vein
[19:12:40] <Jan-> jeez how many brands of these mini media players ARE there
[19:14:18] <Tom_itx> Jan-, how many ppl are there in china?
[19:14:33] <Jan-> erm, about a billion?
[19:14:34] <Jan-> oh.
[19:14:36] <Jan-> :/
[19:14:43] * LemLap nods
[19:15:11] <LemLap> well done Jan-, this is what we call logical reasoning, it's a wonderful thing
[19:15:45] <Tom_itx> some do it verbally
[19:15:46] <Jan-> I don't think there are a billion media players.
[19:16:22] <Tom_itx> i haven't counted but i bet it's close
[19:16:57] <Jan-> But each one of them represents a huge amount of development effort
[19:17:03] <Jan-> and there's so much competition
[19:17:06] <Tom_itx> not hardly
[19:17:10] <Tom_itx> they just copy
[19:17:26] <Jan-> copy what
[19:17:37] <Jan-> the boards, the software?
[19:18:36] <LemLap> yup
[19:18:55] <LemLap> a lot of them are just different casings with the same guts as well
[19:19:05] <Jan-> how do you copy the software off something like that?
[19:19:17] <Jan-> I'm sure they don't exactly use PICs, etc
[19:27:34] <dirty_d> Jan-, sounds like someone wants to grow weed
[19:28:10] <Jan-> with what
[19:29:58] <dirty_d> metal halide lamp
[19:31:17] <Jan-> oh.
[19:31:21] <Jan-> no, it's a movie thing.
[19:31:32] <Jan-> you wouldn't buy $200 HMI lights to grow weed
[19:33:08] <dirty_d> lol
[19:33:30] <LemLap> back soon all
[20:12:35] <Valen> they do use metal halide lamps to grow weed
[20:12:39] <Valen> indoors hydroponically
[20:16:20] <Jan-> yup
[20:16:25] <Jan-> and compact fluorescent ones
[20:16:45] <Jan-> Phil bought some huge compact fluorescent lights that were totally being marketed towards, er, "hydroponics" :D
[22:45:43] <Valen> i want one of those for my bathroom
[22:48:34] <theBear> a long series of joins and parts and no conversation ?
[22:49:28] <Tom_itx> sometimes easier to read the sifted log
[22:50:49] <theBear> :)
[22:50:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23avr/2012-02-24.html
[22:51:23] <theBear> i don't need 'em from you :)
[23:49:39] <TechIsCool> hey everyone got a avr dragon for chirstmas just open it up and studio 5.1 want to upgrade it firmware I said ok clicked upgrade it says it done but still says it needs an upgrade what am I doing wrong?
