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[00:28:40] <rue_more> opamps?
[00:35:25] <rue_more> how the heck did he manage all that analog stuff with 6 resistors?
[00:42:56] <Roklobsta> it's just a tranny detector
[00:43:12] <rue_more> that measures capacitance and gain?
[00:43:17] <Roklobsta> why not?
[00:43:36] <rue_more> I know how to do capacitance, but transistor gain?
[00:44:34] <rue_more> and how about reading diode voltage drop?
[00:46:24] <Roklobsta> i don't knwo what the pins on the avr that are connected to the resistors but are the DAC and ADC?
[00:46:36] <rue_more> yea, 3 bit best case...
[00:47:18] <CapnKernel> Trannie gain is just the ratio of the Ieb to Iec currents, isn't it?
[00:47:25] <rue_more> ooh wait a sec
[00:47:44] <rue_more> I bet he plays around with the source for .... hmm aref...
[00:47:54] <rue_more> no
[00:47:56] <rue_more> hmm
[00:49:07] <rue_more> das kourse ist dutch und kannot be readen
[00:49:56] <Roklobsta> shiessenhuasen. translate
[00:50:14] <rue_more> ah I think I get it
[00:50:18] <Roklobsta> no i meant shiessdreck
[00:50:21] <rue_more> semi digital output is enough
[00:50:57] <rue_more> cause they can set up the transistor and read the voltage from one of the selected base currents
[00:51:05] <Roklobsta> yes
[00:51:13] <rue_more> huh
[00:51:24] <rue_more> all the things I could have done if I'd persued an idea
[00:52:03] <rue_more> well if I want to use all my unmarked transistors I suppose I should put one togethor
[00:52:26] <Landon> or support the man and buy one :P
[00:52:47] <Landon> that is a cool idea though
[00:52:53] * Landon adds that to the simple projects list
[00:53:31] * CapnKernel already added it to the list he's keeping of worthy kits for Hackvana to supply in the future...
[00:53:46] <rue_more> I'z gonna make something like it, I didn't cause I didn't want to waste an avr just to know what the pinout of a bipolar transistor was
[00:53:47] <Landon> is that the store name?
[00:54:16] <CapnKernel> Well it's *my* store's name :-)
[00:54:24] <Landon> yeah, that store :)
[01:03:49] <rue_more> anyone remember this from me?
[01:03:52] <rue_more> lets see...
[01:04:02] <rue_more> !assist tutorials/elex/
[01:04:02] <tobbor> Possibly
http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/
[01:04:26] <rue_more> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/transistors.html
[01:04:27] <rue_more> ^^
[01:05:07] <rue_more> thats a good part of how that thing works too
[01:06:55] <rue_more> and I think I'm the only one who has done a page like that too
[01:10:06] <rue_more> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=zclj4waulAQ&NR=1
[01:10:19] <rue_more> oh god, BGA reflow has become voodoo
[01:10:22] <rue_more> hahahahahah
[01:11:11] * rue_more buckles over laughing
[01:11:24] <rue_more> ITS SAD CAUSE IT PROBABLY WORKS
[01:14:45] <Landon> my internet's too slow to want to click, but is it about fixing an xbox 360? :P
[01:15:11] <Landon> I've had friends that wrapped them with towels and left them on to get some reflow action :\
[01:16:04] <Casper> and it break again 2 weeks later
[01:16:11] <Landon> yep
[01:18:07] <rue_more> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhagHRSTd5I&feature=related
[01:18:08] <rue_more> ?
[01:18:22] <rue_more> oh xbox, sorry
[07:53:41] <pc_magas> GoodEvening
[08:08:15] <pc_magas> Hello, where can I find a power supply for HP Deskjet D1360?
[08:12:47] <specing> variable PSU :)
[08:19:59] <domonica> is there also a good build environment for AVR on mac osx ?
[08:25:06] <pc_magas> domonica, look here
http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/setup-mac.html
[08:25:14] <pc_magas> even though I use linux
[08:26:29] <domonica> everything build with AVRStudio can then also be compiled
[08:26:29] <domonica> ?
[08:51:34] <rue_more> pc_magas, ebay
[08:52:18] <rue_more> domonica, use eclipse and avrdude and avr-gcc :)
[08:58:47] <domonica> rue_more ah eclipse is nice as well indeed. However what is special to AVRStudio that someone wouldn't want to miss out on ?
[08:59:07] <domonica> in other words, i don't like to switch to windows for serious AVR programming :-)
[09:02:31] <rue_more> I understand it can be a pain in the arse to set up sometimes and it can be crashy, so, I suppose if your the kinda person who likes that stuff your missing out on some
[09:06:47] <rue_more> oooo it looks like keycad can do arbitrary part rotations, no more stuck to 90 degrees
[09:09:22] <rue_more> as keycad is open source, I wonder if that means I can make an HPGL driver for my plotter
[09:15:46] <rue_more> I cant, it already has it
[10:37:42] <ziph> wtf, gcc.
[10:38:13] <ziph> I finally get it not generating thumb to arm stubs and then turning on -O2 makes it do it again.
[12:01:57] <abcminiuser> Greetings, meat people!
[12:02:24] <Tom_itx> hi fans!
[12:03:37] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, what's the voltage range shown on those chips that have adc on the programmer project?
[12:03:53] <Tom_itx> 1.8 .. 5.5v?
[12:04:40] <abcminiuser> Err, 0V to 25V theoretically IIRC
[12:05:04] <abcminiuser> It's a uint8_t, with the volatage in .1V
[12:05:59] <Tom_itx> haven't tried the code in the 'official' 5.1 yet but i did get it
[12:23:01] <abcminiuser> Naw that's old now, we're rocking much newer versions internally now ;)
[12:24:03] <CoolBeer> Hmm, my ICP readings are all over the place, with rising edges I get low readings, with falling edges I get high readings. I've verified the frequency with a scope... What are the easiest way to shoot oneself in the foot with ICP reading?
[12:27:05] <RikusW> use a scmidt trigger, maybe that will help
[12:29:16] <CoolBeer> This is actually coming from a lm339, so it's a nice +5v/0v. Maybe I should trigger off T1 instead, do the ICP manually?
[12:36:04] <RikusW> maybe ringing is a problem ?
[12:39:04] <CoolBeer> Actually, it is ringing at ~15kHz, but that's what I'm looking for. I'm pinging a LC circuit and using the comparator to get a nice +5v square to capture. Although... This IS on a breadboard, so I'll try to decouple some more to see if anything changes.
[12:49:36] <OndraSter> you know... you get something new and you have to open it
[12:49:45] <OndraSter> I opened Touch Pro 2 phone, Touch Diamond 2 and Riff Box :D
[13:06:37] <Jan-> hihi avrinos :)
[13:08:18] <OndraSter> hi
[13:08:20] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, what's so cutting edge in the prerelease copies?
[13:08:44] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, can't say, watch Nuremberg
[13:08:45] <Jan-> I have Phil searching through the spare wall-warts for a 5V one :)
[13:09:05] <Tom_itx> aww
[13:09:21] <Jan-> hi Tom_itx
[13:09:22] <Jan-> how're you doing
[13:09:37] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, so don't say it, just whisper it to Tom_itx's ear :P
[13:13:08] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, did your better half follow you to Norway?
[13:18:21] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, no, but my girlfriend did
[13:18:29] <Tom_itx> :)
[13:19:30] <Jan-> lucky
[13:19:39] <Jan-> Phil spent 4 and a half months in Japan last year
[13:19:44] * Jan- was like :-(
[13:19:56] <Steffanx> Join him on his trip next time?
[13:20:06] <Jan-> I have a job?
[13:20:15] <Steffanx> Quit
[13:20:18] <Jan-> ha ha ha
[13:20:21] <Jan-> I have a mortgage
[13:20:27] <Tom_itx> sell
[13:20:43] <Jan-> I have a need to sleep indoors.
[13:20:46] <Steffanx> Just disappear Jan-
[13:21:02] <Tom_itx> Steffanx, wanna figure out that sdio thing?
[13:22:00] <RikusW> Seems there is a lot of corruption here in SA in the Freestate alone unauthorized municipal expenses are R1300m suspect expenses R791m and wasted expensies R119m =-O
[13:22:19] <Jan-> 119 million rand?
[13:22:25] <Jan-> what's that in, say, US dollars?
[13:22:44] <RikusW> 1300 + 791 + 119 million Rand yes
[13:22:49] <Steffanx> Yes Tom_itx
[13:22:51] <Steffanx> Tomorrow
[13:22:52] <RikusW> 10ZAR = 1Euro
[13:22:57] <Tom_itx> ok then
[13:23:04] <Jan-> Cripes
[13:23:06] <Jan-> that's a lot of money
[13:23:11] <RikusW> it is
[13:23:29] <RikusW> and then some municipalities are without electricy
[13:23:31] <Jan-> I get the impression that the post-apartheid government in south africa may not be quite as well organised.
[13:23:35] <Jan-> For all it's fairer.
[13:23:36] <RikusW> electricity
[13:23:47] <RikusW> its not
[13:24:17] <RikusW> organised ? what do you mean, it doesn't exist anymore ;)
[13:24:52] <RikusW> land reform turn a lot of productive farms into wasteland
[13:24:59] <Jan-> I thought that was Zimbabwe
[13:25:16] <RikusW> much smaller scale than zim, for now
[13:25:32] * Jan- spitspits
[13:25:34] <Jan-> Rhodesia!
[13:25:36] * Jan- ducks
[13:26:18] <RikusW> things were better when zim was still Rhodesia yes
[13:26:39] <Jan-> breadbasket of africa, I've heard
[13:26:42] <Jan-> as opposed to what it is now
[13:26:44] <Jan-> the basket case of africa
[13:26:54] * Jan- is a comedy genius
[13:27:00] <RikusW> almost non existent production there now
[13:27:32] <Jan-> hence everyone starves and inflation is like five thousand per cent
[13:28:00] <RikusW> yeah, and we have a lot of illegal immigrants from there too
[13:28:45] <Jan-> can't blame 'em really
[13:29:12] <RikusW> blame uncle bob ;)
[13:31:14] <Jan-> Phil's family name is Rhodes
[13:31:29] <Jan-> they're almost certainly distant relations of Cecil
[13:31:33] <Jan-> oh, the guilt
[13:31:33] <Jan-> not
[13:33:51] <RikusW> interesting
[13:34:58] <RikusW> I've got a British neighbor, he introduced me to avr's, whats the chances of having a ngeighbor like that on a farm ?
[13:35:34] <RikusW> So I was converted from PIC to AVR
[13:35:36] <RikusW> ;)
[13:37:01] <Jan-> brits probably quite unusual down there, no?
[13:37:09] * Jan- waves in a southerly direction
[13:38:55] <RikusW> There is quite a few around here
[13:39:05] <RikusW> my neighbor was born here afaik
[13:39:27] <RikusW> english is in common use in the cities too
[13:40:21] <Jan-> well then he isn't really british is he :)
[13:40:48] <RikusW> his father is
[13:40:55] <Jan-> I don't get it
[13:41:07] <Jan-> Africa should be a paradise of interesting (if dangerous) animals and nice weather and pretty countryside
[13:41:11] <Jan-> and yet it's...
[13:41:14] * Jan- gestures vaguely
[13:41:27] <Jan-> ...bonkers?
[13:42:07] <RikusW> probably due to greed
[13:42:32] <Jan-> corruption?
[13:42:40] <RikusW> that too
[13:42:42] <Jan-> just looks like incompetent government, from here
[13:42:45] <Jan-> places like congo
[13:42:48] <Jan-> I mean sheesh
[13:43:22] <RikusW> many places here have raw severage going into the rivers due to mismanagement
[13:43:37] <RikusW> or shall I say no management at all...
[13:43:52] <Jan-> have you ever wanted to leave?
[13:44:06] <Jan-> I mean, ZA seems reasonably sane
[13:44:08] <RikusW> sometimes
[13:44:20] <Jan-> problem is, if all the sane people just leave...
[13:44:36] <RikusW> there will be a use mess, and famine too
[13:45:08] <Jan-> somewhere like zimbabwe should never have famine
[13:45:10] <Jan-> it's a fertile place
[13:45:25] <RikusW> Other African countries are actually inviting our farmers over there....
[13:45:53] <Jan-> which countries
[13:46:10] <RikusW> can't remember right now
[13:46:18] <RikusW> definitly not zim ;)
[13:46:23] <Jan-> Phil had an offer of work in Angola once
[13:46:40] <Jan-> he turned it down on the advice of the union that it was a "class 2 risk area", which is one under... you know, Afghanistan
[13:46:55] <RikusW> ooh
[13:47:20] <Jan-> apparently there's a problem with landmines
[13:47:55] <RikusW> Like the former homeland Transkei over here, it can produce enough maize for the entire SA and export too, yet there is almost no production
[13:48:12] <Jan-> what, angola?
[13:48:28] <RikusW> Transkei is located within SA
[13:48:45] <Jan-> yaya I know
[13:48:49] <Jan-> that's just insane :/
[13:48:50] <RikusW> its where the xhosas live
[13:48:57] <Jan-> what the hell is going on down there dude :(
[13:49:25] <RikusW> I suspect is black culture and paradigms causing it...
[13:49:37] <Jan-> you're white, right?
[13:49:43] <RikusW> yes
[13:49:52] <Jan-> OK, so you can't really say that because the secret police will turn up.
[13:50:36] <Jan-> And I'm only half kidding
[13:50:42] <RikusW> even the government is starting to realise the problem by now
[13:50:48] <RikusW> heh ;)
[13:51:18] <RikusW> but they can't upset the tribal chieftains for fear of political troubles...
[13:51:53] <Jan-> I do know that the last time the Zimbabwe air force had a competent commander was also the last white guy
[13:52:02] <Jan-> my friend Katie wrote a huge paper on it when she joined the RAF
[13:52:23] <RikusW> quite believable ;)
[13:53:17] <Jan-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Walsh
[13:53:50] <RikusW> that probably the same reason a loose nut destroyed one of our nuclear power stations turbines :|
[13:54:41] <Jan-> do you think africa will ever stop being nuts
[13:54:43] <Jan-> or is it built in
[13:55:08] <RikusW> guess its built in
[13:55:28] <Jan-> that's depressing
[13:55:45] <Jan-> I just wonder what'll happen when north africa realises it can become the power station of the world by building solar power plants
[13:56:24] <RikusW> though I hear in Lesotho things are better (also within SA, can see its mountains from here)
[13:56:47] <Jan-> yeah the BBC did a report on Lesotho a few months ago
[13:56:52] <amee2k> Jan-: same thing that happened when someone else realized they could become the oil barrel of the world. they got raided by the world police :P
[13:56:57] <RikusW> They don't tolerate crime that
[13:57:06] <Jan-> the thing with lesotho is, it's small
[13:57:13] <Jan-> a small group of people can micromanage it
[13:57:13] <RikusW> I think its still under British protection too
[13:57:47] <Jan-> er, not as far as I know
[13:57:51] <amee2k> Jan-: well, the US is large. they're still being micromanaged by tiny green bits of paper.
[13:57:52] <RikusW> amee2k: lol
[13:57:56] <Jan-> independent in the mid 60s from what I remember
[13:58:03] <Jan-> as was Rhode...mbabwe.
[13:58:23] <amee2k> am i being too anti-american (read: terrorist) here?
[13:58:49] <Jan-> that's nearly impossible
[13:58:57] <amee2k> :P
[13:59:01] <Jan-> some American friends of ours visited us a couple of weeks ago
[13:59:15] <Jan-> and asked "How does the rest of the world view America?"
[13:59:23] <Jan-> and I said "Well, you know the movie Starship Troopers?" :)
[13:59:36] <amee2k> LOL
[13:59:47] <amee2k> well
[13:59:51] <amee2k> it would be funny
[13:59:57] <amee2k> if it weren't this true
[14:00:10] <Jan-> yers :/
[14:00:15] <Jan-> actually RikusW you bring up something interesting
[14:00:24] <Jan-> Bahrain (a small island in the persian gulf) was once a British colony
[14:00:35] <Jan-> recently there was unrest there
[14:00:43] <Jan-> and one guy was interviewed on camera, saying "Where are the British!"
[14:00:59] <RikusW> hmm
[14:01:21] <RikusW> but he is a native from there ?
[14:01:31] <Jan-> yes
[14:01:36] <Jan-> a local arab guy
[14:01:43] * RikusW wonders why
[14:01:46] <Jan-> So hey, they wanted us gone, we're gone
[14:01:54] <Jan-> now they have a despotic government that uses the army against the people
[14:02:12] <RikusW> even worse that you ?
[14:02:15] <amee2k> welcome to china. thats industry quality for ya :P
[14:02:23] <spybert> Where was this, Burma?
[14:02:27] <Kevin`> dirty_d: yes, although with two wings and 4 props
[14:02:29] <Jan-> Bahrain
[14:03:19] <dirty_d> Kevin`, cool
[14:04:05] <dirty_d> i guess you could just stick two wings under the motors of any quadcopter and have it fly sideways right?
[14:04:34] <amee2k> um... don't quadcopters fly sideways without wings?
[14:04:44] <dirty_d> no
[14:04:48] <dirty_d> i mean like facing sideways
[14:05:00] <amee2k> ooh, /that/ kind of sideways >_>
[14:05:04] <dirty_d> yea
[14:05:09] <dirty_d> man i hate pcb design
[14:05:25] <dirty_d> whats the deal with eagle leaving behind airwires like inside smd pads?
[14:05:32] <amee2k> pcb design is cool. actually making the designed board not so much
[14:05:35] <jacekowski> you could probably make them fly sideways with variable pitch props
[14:06:04] <Tom_itx> dirty_d, if the grid is too big it will snap to a pin and sometimes this causes the airwire to remain
[14:06:49] <dirty_d> but its clearly one piece of copper
[14:07:58] <Kevin`> dirty_d: yes, you could
[14:08:03] <Kevin`> but that's no fun :D
[14:08:13] <Kevin`> (fly it sideways, that is)
[14:09:25] <dirty_d> Tom_itx, and im seeing an air wide inside the middle of a trace!
[14:09:31] <dirty_d> what in the world
[14:10:12] <OndraSter> click on that button that recounds them
[14:10:15] <OndraSter> recounts them
[14:10:18] <OndraSter> I forgot the name
[14:10:29] <OndraSter> ratsnest?
[14:10:41] <dirty_d> yea i am
[14:10:43] <dirty_d> but they stay
[14:10:47] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:10:48] <OndraSter> weird
[14:15:01] <dirty_d> i should just pay someone to do this, lol
[14:15:56] <Tom_itx> :)
[14:17:29] <Jan-> I should just pay someone to do this whole project
[14:17:32] <Jan-> Tom_itx would've done it by now.
[14:17:43] <Jan-> (we're still looking for a 5V power supply)
[14:18:13] <jacekowski> Jan-: there are ready made naked pcb 5v supplies you can buy
[14:18:23] <jacekowski> or use a wallwart
[14:18:44] <Jan-> we suspect we have an old wall wart
[14:18:47] <Jan-> will 4.8v do?
[14:18:56] <jacekowski> yeah
[14:19:04] <jacekowski> anything within 10% is ok in most cases
[14:25:48] <Jan-> cool thanks
[14:26:52] <dirty_d> how horrible does this board look?
http://cisweb.bristolcc.edu/~klabs/quadcopter_brd.jpg
[14:28:18] <mindw0rk> lol is the a accelerometer?
[14:28:24] <mindw0rk> 3 axis?
[14:28:30] <mindw0rk> is that*
[14:28:53] <dirty_d> 6 axis
[14:29:44] <dirty_d> well, 3/accel, 3/gyro
[14:33:35] * Jan- feels inadequate
[14:33:40] <Jan-> I'm still working on making it talk by serial
[14:33:42] <Jan-> it seems complicated
[14:34:01] * Jan- is reading http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/avrserial
[14:35:12] <Jan-> AVRs only seem to have "send" and "receive" pins
[14:35:14] <izua> abcmini has a pretty good tutorial on avrfreaks
[14:35:19] <Jan-> wheras a serial port has many many pins
[14:35:33] <izua> like ground!
[14:35:54] <izua> but only cts/rts are used, if ever
[14:36:12] <izua> i think modems used the whole bunch
[14:37:10] <OndraSter> yeah
[14:37:15] <OndraSter> nowadays async uses only rx/tx/gnd
[14:37:52] <OndraSter> was there even sync version of RS232?
[14:37:54] <Jan-> wouldn't it have made things easier to include a clock
[14:38:02] <OndraSter> easier maybe
[14:38:04] <izua> why
[14:38:04] <OndraSter> but not better
[14:38:13] <OndraSter> every new bus is now clock-less
[14:38:13] <izua> it makes perfect sense to include 2x2 flow control pins
[14:38:15] <izua> but no clock
[14:38:17] <OndraSter> and each side is clocking on its own
[14:39:02] <Jan-> izua are you serious or joking
[14:39:08] <OndraSter> no
[14:39:16] <OndraSter> PCI express - no clock
[14:39:18] <OndraSter> USB - no clock
[14:39:19] <izua> lol, i'm joking
[14:39:23] <izua> yeah
[14:39:35] <Jan-> but pcie and usb are way way faster than RS232
[14:39:39] <OndraSter> yes
[14:39:46] <OndraSter> but that shows that clock = useless
[14:39:55] <Jan-> only at high speed
[14:39:56] <izua> is it to maintain dc bias and those fancy 8/11 encodings?
[14:40:04] <Jan-> at lower speeds, clock removes a lot of complexity
[14:40:09] <Jan-> (a LOT of complexity)
[14:40:21] <OndraSter> they had different opinion back in 70s appearantly
[14:41:21] <Jan-> yeah
[14:41:28] <Jan-> but to be fair, they probably wore brown suede flares.
[14:49:23] <Jan-> wtf is a makefile
[14:49:28] <Jan-> I never heard of them before open source got big
[14:49:41] <Jan-> even a makefile for one (one!) c file is like 300 lines
[14:49:43] <Jan-> it's insane
[14:50:11] <RikusW> make use a makefile to compile the project
[14:50:20] <RikusW> its basically a lot of commands
[14:50:28] <Jan-> makefiles are there to stop normal humans writing open source software :(
[14:50:42] <RikusW> my hand crafted makefiles are _much_ smaller
[14:53:08] <Jan-> I wanted to write some code using libavformat and libavcodec
[14:53:18] <Jan-> I have all the C files
[14:53:25] <Jan-> I have my main C file with my program in it
[14:53:32] <Jan-> and... SOMEHOW, you have to tie them together.
[14:53:36] <Jan-> Makefiles suck :(
[14:53:45] <RikusW> in linux ?
[14:53:53] <Jan-> windows
[14:53:56] <Jan-> but what's the difference
[14:53:57] <Jan-> it's all GCC
[14:54:14] <RikusW> you first make the libs
[14:54:20] <RikusW> then link you app to it
[14:54:29] <Jan-> In C#, you just add a reference to the files
[14:54:31] <Jan-> and it works
[14:54:36] * Jan- really dislikes open source software
[14:54:48] <RikusW> there should be a README file or similar with it telling you how to make / compile it
[14:55:21] <RikusW> in linux just typing make usually does the trick
[14:55:23] <RikusW> on the commandline
[14:55:38] <Jan-> yarigh
[14:55:45] <Jan-> how can it possibly know your intentions
[14:55:58] <RikusW> thats what the makefile does
[14:57:08] <RikusW> you need to have make and gcc in your path, then in the lib directory type make
[14:57:22] <Jan-> There should be a better system than that.
[14:57:24] <RikusW> on linux you sometimes need ./configure
[14:57:29] <Jan-> Basically it stops the concept of open source from actually working
[14:57:35] <RikusW> but that needs bash...
[14:57:43] <Jan-> I'd like to use piece of software X, but I can't, because it's just... inaccessible
[14:57:47] <RikusW> works fine on linux for me
[14:58:12] <Jan-> they've carefully built a compilation environment which prevents people using the software unless they're some sort of PhD level comp sci expert
[14:58:21] <RikusW> but not having the full toolchain on windows can be a problem :(
[14:58:30] <Jan-> gah
[14:58:42] <Jan-> even then it still doesn't explain how I write myprogram.c and refer to those libraries
[14:58:51] <RikusW> you don't have a linux machine around ?
[14:58:54] <Jan-> unless you just #include EVERY FILE IN THE LIBRARY.
[14:59:09] <RikusW> you need to link to it
[14:59:27] <RikusW> it can be either static or dynamic (dll)
[15:00:08] <Jan-> there doesn't seem to be any actual description or documentation of this process anywhere
[15:01:26] <RikusW> I've never tried compiling linux stuff on windows before....
[15:01:33] <dirty_d> Jan-, just compile with -lavcodec
[15:01:45] <dirty_d> and include libavcodec.h
[15:01:48] <dirty_d> or whatever
[15:02:15] <dirty_d> and then call libavcodec functions and stuff
[15:02:40] <Jan-> like that'll work
[15:02:43] * Jan- mutters
[15:02:48] <Jan-> why can't these people use some sort of IDE
[15:03:15] <dirty_d> i think im gonna start this board over from scratch
[15:03:27] <RikusW> commandline can be quite powerful, but it have a steep learning curve...
[15:03:48] <Jan-> and no manual
[15:04:06] <dirty_d> or maybe ill try to make it
[15:04:11] <izua> start with :vimtutor
[15:04:31] <dirty_d> i cna probably make 2 single sided boards then glue them together to make double sided, lol
[15:04:54] <RikusW> if you have like 0.8mm thick ones yes
[15:05:07] <RikusW> I did it once
[15:05:22] <RikusW> to make a ISA connector
[15:05:51] <RikusW> and made the tracks using a hacksaw.....
[15:06:02] <RikusW> and it worked...
[15:06:09] <RikusW> works...
[15:06:24] <Jan-> if I have a C# project I can just include it in one go
[15:06:34] <Jan-> even if I have a .cs file or folder full of .cs files I can just import them
[15:06:58] <Jan-> OF COURSE the linux approach to this is to configure, make, compile, and link the object code together MANUALLY.\
[15:07:06] * Jan- kicks linux in a sensitive area
[15:07:32] <dirty_d> are through holes automatically plated in eagle?
[15:07:44] <RikusW> don't abuse penguins :-P
[15:08:29] * Jan- roasts tux with stuffing
[15:09:12] <RikusW> lol
[15:12:17] <Jan-> Seriously though
[15:12:20] <Jan-> it is all such bullshit
[15:13:44] <RikusW> I have a few books explaining it, without that I guess I would be as lost as you....
[15:14:08] <Jan-> why is there no standard system?
[15:14:11] <Jan-> "Include this library"
[15:14:30] <RikusW> you can compile without a makefile, the makefile only automates everything
[15:14:46] <Jan-> that's another linux attitude
[15:14:57] <Jan-> introduce something incredibly complicated and difficult
[15:15:06] <Jan-> then claim it's for the purpose of "automation"
[15:15:07] <Jan-> ffs
[15:15:11] <RikusW> makefiles aren't that bad to write
[15:15:29] <RikusW> you can make a 10 or 20 line one for a small project
[15:15:32] <Jan-> Worse than Not Writing a Makefile
[15:16:01] <Jan-> this stuff should be easy
[15:19:22] <RikusW> do you have cygwin ?
[15:20:13] <izua> jan-: the standard lib layout is pretty.. err... standard
[15:20:18] <asteve> makefiles were around before linux existed..
[15:20:31] <Jan-> bout time for something new then
[15:20:33] <izua> sounds like the problem you're having is that your filesystem and os isn't using the standard layout
[15:20:53] <izua> ie, be ready to rewrite stuff ifyou compile on windows :D
[15:21:13] <asteve> rails has rake files which i think are even more complicatable
[15:21:33] <Jan-> I did manage to compile ffmpeg itself under windows
[15:21:38] <Jan-> just a basic version with no extras which is basically useless
[15:21:46] <Jan-> but it did get through the compile (with a LOT of errors)
[15:22:47] <RikusW> Jan-: cygwin is a linux like environment on top of windows
[15:24:08] <RikusW> might help to get it compiled
[15:24:21] <Jan-> I don't really want to add another layer of open source complexity to this
[15:24:32] <Jan-> and yes, I know what cygwin is
[15:32:43] <Kevin`> running linux stuff is a lot easier under linux
[15:33:25] <RikusW> definitly
[15:33:30] <izua> jan
[15:33:37] <izua> what exactly are you trying to compile now?
[15:33:39] <Kevin`> also, msys helps for windows
[15:33:59] <izua> or virtualbox
[15:34:15] <Kevin`> running linux in virtualbox won't get you native windows binaries
[15:34:27] <OndraSter> running looniks in vmware is enough pain for me :P
[15:34:45] <Kevin`> it certainly would make stuff work, but at that point I just don't run windows
[15:35:55] <RikusW> I only boot to XP occasionally
[15:36:12] <RikusW> dual boot is nice to have
[15:37:04] <Steffanx> vm's are nicer
[15:37:34] <RikusW> yes, but my pc don't support that :(
[15:38:28] <Kevin`> you don't need hardware virtualization support to run your windows system in vmware or virtualbox. it won't be fast, but it should be usable
[15:40:05] <Kevin`> ethernet frames take a lot of ram :(
[15:40:29] <inflex> indeed, I ran XP VM's in VirtualBox on an Atom CPU within Ubuntu 10.04 no troubles, with no hardware virtualisation
[15:40:52] <Jan-> what I wanted to do was use some open source software in my own code
[15:40:58] <RikusW> maybe I should try that sometime
[15:40:59] <Jan-> you know, like you're supposed to be able to
[15:41:04] <Jan-> like, is the entire point of open source
[15:41:09] <Steffanx> Yes...
[15:41:10] <Jan-> but you can't
[15:41:13] <Steffanx> Why not?
[15:41:16] <inflex> Jan-: why not?
[15:41:17] <Jan-> you have to run linux.
[15:41:20] <Steffanx> Uh?
[15:41:21] <Jan-> you HAVE to run linux.
[15:41:23] <inflex> O_o
[15:41:26] <Steffanx> Since when?
[15:41:30] <inflex> no you don't
[15:41:36] <RikusW> Jan-: have you ever used libraries before ?
[15:41:37] <Jan-> and you have to be an expert on makefiles and configure scripts and installation and compilation and linking
[15:41:44] <Jan-> RikusW: Yes. Heaps. In C#.
[15:41:49] * inflex writes OpenSource - plenty of people building my software on Win, Mac, and other Unix's
[15:42:27] <inflex> Jan-: aaah, so you have to have a programming _environment_, but that's different. What did you expect? Magic? probabl.
[15:42:52] <inflex> I'm sure there's OpenSource C# stuff
[15:42:53] <Jan-> well no
[15:43:03] <Jan-> I expect some sort of integrated development environment
[15:43:07] <Jan-> some sort of standardised approach
[15:43:09] <Jan-> some sort of documentation
[15:43:18] <Jan-> but wait, no, this is linux code, of course it's complete fricken chaos.
[15:43:28] <inflex> What ever.
[15:43:29] <izua> it is.
[15:43:34] <izua> vim + command line + make
[15:43:40] <RikusW> Jan-: gcc does the linking too just pass -L/path -lyourlib for libyourlib
[15:43:43] <Steffanx> /ignore izua
[15:43:59] <Jan-> where does it say that
[15:44:05] <Jan-> where do I find this out
[15:44:09] <Steffanx> Google
[15:44:12] <Jan-> where do I discover these facts
[15:44:16] <inflex> read the README
[15:44:30] <Jan-> what readme
[15:44:39] <inflex> Jan-: you expect too much; you'll be forever dissapointed by the free nature of OpenSource - I strongly suggest you stick with Windows.
[15:44:55] <inflex> Jan-: OpenSource requires you to sometimes exert
[15:45:01] <izua> Steffanx: *grin*
[15:45:02] <Jan-> if you google for information on open source things, you'll get 300,000 matches
[15:45:07] <Jan-> most of which will be contradictory
[15:45:09] <Jan-> years out of date
[15:45:11] <Jan-> incomplete
[15:45:16] <Jan-> and unhelpful.
[15:45:25] <Kevin`> Jan-: have you ever used a c or c++ library?
[15:45:37] <Jan-> that's what I was TRYING to do.
[15:45:39] <inflex> Jan-: you're unrealistic
[15:45:53] <Jan-> inflex: No, I'm used to professionally written software that has some sort of standard approach.
[15:45:56] <Jan-> I'm used to documentation.
[15:45:57] <inflex> Jan-: hahahahha
[15:46:04] <Kevin`> Jan-: expecting c to be identical to c# because of the letter is silly
[15:46:11] <RikusW> Jan-: there is info pages with gcc, in linux you just type info gcc
[15:46:19] <RikusW> not sure how to access that in windows
[15:46:25] <Steffanx> Google RikusW :)
[15:47:07] <Jan-> and you get the aforementioned billion pages of outdated, incomplete, incomprehensible BS.
[15:47:11] <Jan-> Why is there no IDE?
[15:47:25] <Steffanx> There are lots of IDE's
[15:47:25] <RikusW> bash is the linux ide :-P
[15:47:28] <LoRez> why must one use an IDE?
[15:47:30] <inflex> Jan-: leave OpenSource - you'll never be happy with it. There's too many bad packages that'll make you unhappy - so just leave it alone, go stick with "professional" software. I really don't know why you spend your life in here moaning.
[15:47:32] <RikusW> or emacs or vim...
[15:47:33] <Kevin`> Jan-: there ARE ides. but a library isn't tied to an ide. use an ide if you want.
[15:47:47] <izua> RikusW: that's what i said -.-
[15:47:49] <inflex> Jan-: it's clearly not for you
[15:47:57] <izua> vim is the coolest ide!
[15:48:05] <mrfrenzy> Jan-'s not trying opensource, just listening to different reviews and reading about it then complaining ;)
[15:48:10] <inflex> Jan-: OpenSource is the WORST in the world, no one will ever use it, no one does use it, it's crap crap crap - just go use your pro-stuff.
[15:48:28] <Kevin`> Jan-: avr studio uses visual studio with gcc and make, if you never noticed =p
[15:48:29] <Jan-> if they'd written libavcodec in MSVC, well, that might have been different.
[15:48:37] <inflex> Jan-: and if ANYONE tells you to try OpenSource or hands you OpenSource, RUN AWAY. Don't even try look at it.
[15:48:44] <inflex> Jan-: then everyone will be happy, it's simple.
[15:48:49] <Kevin`> Jan-: it's written in c. msvc is an ide, not a language
[15:48:50] <Steffanx> "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah"
[15:48:56] <RikusW> izua: and I probably don't even know 10% of its commands...
[15:49:13] <Jan-> I don't care what AVR studio does, it just works.
[15:49:33] <xorm> lolol
[15:49:33] <izua> it doesn't. you still need to install winavr
[15:49:41] <Kevin`> izua: but it does that for you
[15:49:42] <Steffanx> Not with the newer versions
[15:49:48] <Jan-> actually I did have to do that
[15:49:52] <xorm> i do everything from console
[15:49:58] <Steffanx> You had to install it for AS4, izua
[15:50:00] <xorm> vim, avrdude, avr-gcc
[15:50:02] <Steffanx> AS5 is fancier
[15:50:07] <inflex> Jan-: don't use AVRStudio... it uses OpenSource! ARUGGGH It runs with the avr-gcc compiler!
[15:50:10] <Jan-> only on linux is it normal for one program to magically require other completely different programs, just to run
[15:50:14] <izua> RikusW: try vi{ or vi} inside {-} brackets
[15:50:15] <inflex> bloody hell Jan- , be more careful
[15:50:17] <izua> best command ever!
[15:50:26] <izua> Steffanx: AS5 is horrible
[15:50:36] <Steffanx> Yes, ofcourse
[15:50:42] <Steffanx> It uses VSS
[15:50:56] <izua> ._O
[15:50:58] <xorm> does it also use GND?
[15:51:02] <Kevin`> izua: what's wrong with it?
[15:51:15] <izua> i had a hunch when i've seen all the non-related syntax highlighting entries
[15:51:16] <inflex> Jan-: really, STOP USING it... stop hurting yourself. Bloody hell, why do you do this and then bitch to us about it?
[15:51:27] <izua> it's 10x slower
[15:51:37] <Jan-> Because five hundred million people constantly bash the internet going "Oh, opensource is great, everyone should use it, it works really well"
[15:51:43] <Jan-> whereas in fact it's crap, and it doesn't work very well at all.
[15:51:49] <inflex> Jan-: but you're an independent thinker, ignore them
[15:51:51] <izua> and it looks like it's been ported from something else, if Steffanx is right about VSS, then, lol.
[15:52:04] <inflex> Jan-: just ignore them; use your pro-stuff, and quit succumbing to peer pressure
[15:52:09] <Steffanx> VSS = Visual Studio Shell izua ..
[15:52:16] <inflex> Jan-: if you ignore them, then everyone is happy.
[15:52:19] <Kevin`> inflex: he's probably just annoying he will now have to pay $2000 for a licenced coded that will be delivered under NDA as a binary that only works on x86-32 ;p
[15:52:20] <RikusW> izua: its is VS2010 in disguise
[15:52:30] <Steffanx> So AS5 is just Visual Studio with a touch from Atmel
[15:52:44] <Jan-> basically I wanted to write a program that used the audio tracks from various media files
[15:52:50] <inflex> Kevin`: I really don't care - so long as Jan- is happy using the pro-gear, then great. (I'm fine with vim/make/gcc... but that's me)
[15:53:07] <Jan-> using libavformat and libavcodec SHOULD have abstracted away all the file format stuff.
[15:53:14] <Steffanx> Just start Jan-, trial and error
[15:53:17] <Steffanx> trial and error
[15:53:18] <Jan-> But it's just... such a terrible appalling mess, you can't even use it.
[15:53:18] <Steffanx> trial and error
[15:53:18] <Steffanx> trial and error
[15:53:23] <Jan-> So all those thousands of hours of code are just wasted.
[15:53:26] <inflex> Jan-: so don't use it - bloody hell
[15:53:27] <Steffanx> trial and succeed
[15:53:36] <inflex> Jan-: stupid of you to have tried without researching the docs properly
[15:53:39] <Jan-> The entire purpose of open source software is defeated by the fact that it's all just crap.
[15:53:46] <Steffanx> Yes Jan-
[15:53:47] <inflex> Jan-: yeah, OpenSource is bollocks
[15:53:54] <inflex> Jan-: now go away.
[15:54:02] <Steffanx> lol
[15:54:06] <Kevin`> Jan-: realize something. opensource software isn't marketed for you. it's designed to work instead =p
[15:54:10] <Jan-> is there any C compiler for AVRs other than gcc?
[15:54:19] <inflex> Jan-: because for as long as you're in here, you're going to have OpenSource shoved in your face
[15:54:32] <Kevin`> Jan-: IAR. it's sometimes slightly more efficient at code generation, but $$$$
[15:54:33] <izua> IAR
[15:54:41] <inflex> that'sperfect for Jan-
[15:54:46] <Kevin`> Jan-: also it has library differences
[15:54:50] <inflex> there you are Jan- - got get IAR.
[15:54:51] <Steffanx> Heeeeelp Jan-, you use and open source IRC client
[15:54:53] <Jan-> GCC doesn't really produce very fast code, from what I have read.
[15:55:00] <Steffanx> *an
[15:55:05] <izua> look through the assembler listing
[15:55:09] <inflex> gcc isn't designed with speed as its primary focus, portability is.
[15:55:11] <Jan-> Steffanx: I don't care.
[15:55:16] <Steffanx> Yes you do
[15:55:20] <Steffanx> It's open source
[15:55:21] <Jan-> inflex: that's just an excuse for it being crap.
[15:55:28] <inflex> Jan-: no, it's not
[15:55:32] <Jan-> Is too.
[15:55:40] <xorm> lol why is this a discussion
[15:55:41] <RikusW> lol
[15:55:43] <mrfrenzy> please realize he's just trolling
[15:55:44] <inflex> Jan-: hahahaha
[15:55:48] <inflex> Jan-: oh man, you're gold
[15:55:50] <mrfrenzy> go get a beer and /ignore Jan-
[15:55:54] <RikusW> mrfrenzy: she
[15:56:03] <mrfrenzy> sorry
[15:56:03] <inflex> Jan-: I suggest you go write your own and use ICC.... have fun, and fuck off.
[15:56:12] <Steffanx> Jan- when is the button to turn the troll mode off?
[15:56:15] <Steffanx> *where
[15:56:24] * inflex applies the ignore to the idiots
[15:56:25] <Kevin`> inflex: porting icc would be futile
[15:57:04] <Jan-> Of course, the open source community is such a bonus. They'll be kind and understanding and helpful to inexperienced people, and never tell you to fuck off at all.
[15:57:13] * Jan- holds her head in her hands
[15:57:20] <Steffanx> Jan- .. you've never been in #C
[15:57:24] <Steffanx> I guess
[15:57:32] <Steffanx> They are sooo kind in there
[15:57:38] <izua> nono
[15:57:41] <izua> ##ubuntu is better
[15:57:43] <inflex> I think Jan- should talk with Zhivago
[15:57:44] <Kevin`> Jan-: pay someone for support and they will tolerate a lot more whining
[15:57:51] <mrfrenzy> we are very kind to people who ask for specific help instead of trolling
[15:58:05] <Jan-> but of course you are.
[15:58:27] <mrfrenzy> you have not asked for help using something, just bitched about how you think everything is useless
[15:58:40] <Jan-> well it's not so much what I think, it's what I've found to be the case.
[15:59:30] <Jan-> I didn't just randomly arrive at this conclusion.
[15:59:34] <inflex> gharr... bloomen monkey-crap Vista *throws laptop out the window*
[15:59:42] <LoRez> Jan-: so socket wrenches are useless if you don't know how to use them?
[15:59:53] <inflex> What is the _DEAL_ with Windows and viruses, even after 20yrs+
[16:00:06] <Jan-> LoRez: Socket wrenches don't really require a manual.
[16:00:30] <Jan-> I would say that the whole gcc/make/configure script thing had been designed to be incomprehensible, if I thought anyone had actually designed it.
[16:00:31] <Steffanx> Jan- isn't the average woman :P
[16:00:38] <LoRez> fine.. s/socket wrenches/any other random tool that requires a manual or experience to use/
[16:00:56] <mrfrenzy> inflex: the deal is clueless people running as root browsing unsafe websites and opening all links sent to them over email/IM/social media
[16:01:02] <Jan-> C# is discoverable.
[16:01:07] <Jan-> Read about discoverability.
[16:01:23] <Jan-> Running some sort of command gcc -foo -bar:nurnie -gimboid isn't
[16:01:33] <RikusW> Shifting spanners apparently does here is SA, it should say don't put a pipe over the handle to extend it, you might break it...
[16:01:37] <Steffanx> And those nice built-in backdoors mrfrenzy ?
[16:01:56] <mrfrenzy> those account for only .5% of the infections
[16:02:00] <mrfrenzy> the rest are clueless users
[16:02:15] <Jan-> Windows gets more viruses because there are more viruses, and that's becuase the users are clueless
[16:02:23] <Jan-> you can't be clueless to use linux you have to be an expert computer user
[16:02:33] <Steffanx> Not really
[16:02:41] <Jan-> I never, ever see viruses on windows because I've used it for ages and I know what to do and what not to do
[16:02:41] <Tom_itx> untrue
[16:02:46] <Jan-> it's about users not technology
[16:02:46] <Steffanx> Download ubuntu and you don't have to look at the terminal at all
[16:03:03] <Jan-> Steffanx: if you don't have to type "sudo" every three seconds it isn't linux.
[16:03:13] <inflex> ag, clueless users in general, though a lot are driven by fear of the unknown
[16:03:16] <Steffanx> sudo su and you're done Jan-
[16:03:22] <Kevin`> Jan-: nah, linux users just need someone to install the system and do occasional support, just like they get from an OEM. normal users can't install windows either.
[16:03:39] <Tom_itx> it's either type sudo or answer 'yes' to 'are you really sure you want to do this?' all the time
[16:03:43] <RikusW> Jan-: use sudo su instead then ;)
[16:03:45] <mrfrenzy> my grandma uses ubuntu
[16:03:52] <mrfrenzy> it took three hours of training
[16:03:53] <Jan-> Well, it does require considerably less knowledge to install windows
[16:03:55] <inflex> a lot are being suckered in by the "You have virus [xxxxxx]" web-driveby shots.... love how you have to end up using the windows cmd.exe a lot to fix problems, so much for "command line sucks"
[16:03:59] <LoRez> RikusW: sudo -s.
[16:04:01] <mrfrenzy> she uses it every day, never had a single virus or driver problem
[16:04:10] <Tom_itx> the 'answer yes' is more annoying
[16:04:17] <inflex> agreed
[16:04:17] <Jan-> inasmuch as rebuilding a windows PC takes like three hours
[16:04:17] <Steffanx> You can disable that Tom_itx :P
[16:04:21] <Jan-> whereas linux takes three weeks
[16:04:31] <Tom_itx> Steffanx i shouldn't have to
[16:04:32] <Kevin`> Jan-: i've never had windows update finish in three hours
[16:04:40] <inflex> I don't know why they bother with the yes/no thing... since people still just click [yes]
[16:04:42] <Tom_itx> and fwiw, i did
[16:04:55] * inflex did a Vista SP2 update last night...6 hours *sigh*
[16:05:01] <mrfrenzy> again, now even I fell for the trolling, gonna ignore this channel for now
[16:05:06] <Tom_itx> inflex, it just prolongs the 'oh shit' reaction
[16:05:06] <Steffanx> Jan- can't you discuss this with Phil?
[16:05:24] <Jan-> phil has even less patience with open source than I do
[16:05:28] <Jan-> he actually has to use it
[16:05:33] <Jan-> whenever his friends' netbooks break
[16:05:34] <Steffanx> Then you found a nice partner in crime
[16:05:38] <Jan-> aaargh, linux on laptops, the pain, the horror
[16:05:45] <Dossidr> hy guys
[16:05:48] <Steffanx> Lo
[16:05:49] <inflex> this laptop has a Win32/winwebsec infection, even after you remove it with MS SecurityEssentials, it seems to come back, lovely.
[16:06:00] * inflex cracks open the cmd.exe again to break more stuff
[16:06:00] <Steffanx> Don't use it inflex :)
[16:06:10] <Dossidr> i nned helph programm an ATMEGA644
[16:06:15] <Jan-> don't try to fix it, just reinstall it, it takes a couple hours
[16:06:22] <izua> Dossidr: nice chip. what fails?
[16:06:30] <inflex> Steffanx: usually I find MS-SE isbetter than most other AV/AM systems - at least it doesn't cripple your system like Norton/McAfee/etc
[16:06:31] <Kevin`> reinstalling windows takes a whole day and you know it
[16:06:39] <Jan-> remember this is not linux, you do not have to spend 500 years calculating mode lines and adding repositories and recompiling your kernel nine dozen times.
[16:06:45] <Dossidr> my cable is not connect device says avrdude
[16:06:50] <inflex> Kevin`: aye, agreed.... install + updates + tweaks + install apps
[16:06:51] <OndraSter> Jan-, haha
[16:06:54] <izua> Ìû
[16:07:02] <Tom_itx> for the record, who brought up this OS discussion again anyway?
[16:07:04] <Dossidr> thats the cable i have build
[16:07:04] <OndraSter> that's why looniks can not get out of vmware
[16:07:10] <inflex> Tom_itx: you did
[16:07:14] <OndraSter> Dossidr, parallel port?
[16:07:18] <Dossidr> yes
[16:07:20] <Tom_itx> inflex, no sir
[16:07:21] <izua> Dossidr: please post it on imgur.com or similar.
[16:07:23] <Dossidr> see .pdf
[16:07:31] <inflex> Tom_itx: I'm almost certain you did ;)
[16:07:32] <Tom_itx> just got here in the middle of it
[16:07:41] <Dossidr> moment please
[16:07:47] <izua> Dossidr: we will need more info, for example, what board are you using, or if breadboarding or if using a custom board, etc
[16:07:48] <inflex> Tom_itx: your FTL neutrinos started it beforeyou got here.
[16:07:53] <izua> the message usually means it can't talk to the chip.
[16:08:02] <OndraSter> parallel port programming = evil, isn't it just simpler to get avrispmkII ripoff for few bucks?
[16:08:08] <OndraSter> from Tom_itx
[16:08:14] <izua> that's either the chip not being powered, or the connections being wrong, or your programmer being bad (if it's parallel)
[16:08:22] <Dossidr> board is an AVRNETIO from German distributor Pollin.
[16:08:25] <izua> OndraSter: imo, it's a godsend
[16:08:36] <Steffanx> N oway
[16:08:50] <izua> you have (well, had) direct IO access
[16:08:53] <OndraSter> izua, parallel port programming is godsend or avrispmkII ripoff is godsend?
[16:08:59] <OndraSter> (and godsend = sent by god?)
[16:09:14] <inflex> heeey, don't knock the 3-resistor AVR //port programmer STK200 :D
[16:09:18] <izua> ^
[16:09:23] * inflex bootstrapped his life in AVR with one of those
[16:09:29] <Steffanx> Or that IDE based AVR programmer?
[16:09:38] <Steffanx> from rue_more ?
[16:09:38] <izua> mine also had a buffer :P
[16:09:50] <Dossidr> the command is: avrdude -p m644 -c dapa -e -F .....hex
[16:09:54] <inflex> Steffanx: yeah, I got a buffered one also from rue I think
[16:10:05] <Dossidr> the 3 resistor is include
[16:10:08] <izua> dapa?
[16:10:12] <Jan-> avrdude -p m644-c dapa -e -F .....hex
[16:10:18] <Jan-> I do love open source software.
[16:10:21] <izua> is that the right one?
[16:10:27] <Steffanx> Just read the manual Jan- ..
[16:10:30] <Steffanx> The manual
[16:10:30] <Jan-> Has any linux user ever heard of the term "user interface"
[16:10:34] <Steffanx> The manual
[16:10:35] <izua> cli
[16:10:39] <izua> i stands for interface
[16:10:49] <izua> also what steffanx stays
[16:10:56] <Jan-> there is no manual
[16:10:59] <OndraSter> blabla
[16:11:04] <OndraSter> AVR Studio 5 = awesome
[16:11:06] <Jan-> you can google but it'll get you a million incomplete and outdated sites.
[16:11:09] <Tom_itx> after dos you just got spoiled and lazy
[16:11:10] <OndraSter> haven't used 5.1, don't know the changes
[16:11:11] <Kevin`> "but i haven't been trained and used linux for 20 years like I have with windows, so the UI sucks"
[16:11:18] <Steffanx> Jan- use the official manual
[16:11:20] <Jan-> Kevin` it doesn't HAVE a UI
[16:11:25] <Tom_itx> and were told what was 'a good thing'
[16:11:29] <izua> Dossidr: how are you powering your board?
[16:11:31] <Dossidr> im using the follow pinings from parport to isp (10) 1 --> 7 / 2 --> 1 / 11 --> 9 / 20+21 --> 6 / 16 --> 5
[16:11:38] <Dossidr> 9 Volt
[16:11:54] <Steffanx> Jan- has her 'period'
[16:11:55] <Kevin`> Tom_itx: yes, it's a good thing. I HATE if I ever have to use dos (or cmd, to a lesser extent) after having used bash for a while ;p
[16:11:58] <Dossidr> direct on the socket to using power
[16:12:12] <Jan-> Steffanx: That was last week. And that's really offensive.
[16:12:25] <Dossidr> linux user
[16:12:53] <Kevin`> Dossidr: um, 9 volt?
[16:13:06] * RikusW agrees with Kevin`
[16:13:26] <Kevin`> Dossidr: both the avr and the pc parallel port are rated for a maximum of 5v
[16:13:41] <izua> the board has a voltage reg
[16:13:52] <izua> but the odd thing is, it also seems to have a stk500 compatible programmer.
[16:14:02] <Dossidr> its not enough on the board can see LED
[16:14:45] <Dossidr> don`t have any other programmer here
[16:14:57] <izua> doesn't the board also act a sa programmer?
[16:15:07] <izua> i don't understand german, but from what i can see, it seems like it.
[16:15:40] <Dossidr> pls give mee a mail adress, i like send the .pdf
[16:16:28] <Steffanx> I know Jan- .. that's why i asked
[16:18:32] <izua> Ìû
[16:18:43] <Kevin`> http://kwzs.be/~kevin/windows_just_works.png :(
[16:18:44] <izua> Dossidr: stop DCCing me files
[16:18:54] <izua> put them on a public server
[16:19:05] <Dossidr> ok
[16:19:11] <Steffanx> Ìû
[16:20:08] <Steffanx> Kevin` you also get that H in nicks :D
[16:20:48] <Kevin`> H?
[16:21:06] <Kevin`> Steffanx: oh, that. what are you doing to cause that
[16:21:07] <Steffanx> See my message from 16:07
[16:21:34] <Steffanx> I think it's the nick-tab completion from this client
[16:21:41] <Steffanx> *tab-nick
[16:25:15] <Dossidr> s
[16:25:55] <Steffanx> r
[16:38:50] <Jan-> am I allowed to ask a non-AVR but electronics related question
[16:38:55] <OndraSter> yes
[16:39:14] <Jan-> we have a 10K potentiometer and we want to use that to control the brightness of a bunch of LEDs
[16:39:20] <Jan-> for complicated reasons, it has to be that 10k pot
[16:39:44] <Jan-> Now ifwe just use it as a variable resistance, it might work a bit, but all the control will be in the first or last 10% of rotation...
[16:39:49] <OndraSter> btw, today I wrote small piece of code that can (or should :D... haven't tested it yet) dump X numbers from flash/RAM into serial port in human-readable hex format, pointed by Z register
[16:39:49] <OndraSter> http://pastebin.com/8jjdEgSH
[16:39:59] <RikusW> use a transistor too ?
[16:40:08] <Jan-> not sure how
[16:40:24] <Kevin`> Jan-: use it to control the current setting of a buck-type smps. assuming a "bunch" of leds.
[16:40:39] <OndraSter> don't talk about SMPS in front of her! :P
[16:40:51] <Jan-> well, a bunch being... including 7-segment segments... 30 or so
[16:40:54] <Jan-> and yeah
[16:40:57] <Jan-> smps bring me out in a rash
[16:42:04] <Kevin`> it's really simple for something like this. op-amp with a little hysteresis, switch, inductor
[16:42:23] <Jan-> smps are absolutely never simple
[16:42:45] <Casper> Jan-: it can be simple: if you use kits or modules
[16:43:11] <Jan-> well sure
[16:43:14] <Jan-> but to design and build
[16:43:15] <Kevin`> Jan-: sure they are. less efficient, use the pot to either control the voltage to a fet or power to a bjt
[16:43:15] * Jan- shudders
[16:45:46] <Jan-> I'm not sure how to do that
[16:45:52] <Jan-> or at least not so it wouldn't have the same problem
[16:45:59] <Jan-> you'd need some sort of resistor divider to sort it out I think
[16:46:15] <Kevin`> Jan-: the pot is a resistor divider
[16:46:25] <Kevin`> connect one end to + and the other to -
[16:46:28] <Kevin`> middle goes to gate
[16:46:33] <Jan-> that's a bit unfriendly
[16:46:37] <Jan-> I might put a resistor each end
[16:46:37] <izua> jan: or you could use the cheapest avr with an adc
[16:46:45] <Jan-> just so it didn't just short the rail
[16:46:47] <izua> mega48, ~€1 on tme.
[16:46:55] <OndraSter> how could you short the rail?
[16:46:56] <Jan-> izua: overcomplicate much :)
[16:47:06] <Kevin`> Jan-: 10k is high enough that you won't have a problem connecting it directly
[16:47:11] <izua> yes but you get to use those wonderful opensource software
[16:47:12] <Jan-> Hm I guess
[16:47:18] <izua> plus, if you need to do it fast, why not?
[16:47:23] <Jan-> err
[16:47:25] <Kevin`> Jan-: I assumed that's WHY you were using 10k in the first place, actually
[16:47:38] <izua> otherwise i'd just have a 555 setup as a pwm.
[16:47:48] <izua> generator - although still overcomplicated.
[16:47:52] <Jan-> developing avr code to dim lights is somehow faster than using one transistor? you are a master of comedy :)
[16:48:01] <Jan-> actually we strictly don't want it to PWM
[16:48:09] <Jan-> it's a prop for a film production, and the camera may see strobing
[16:48:15] <OndraSter> hmm anyone feeling up to writing IRC server for AVR?
[16:48:19] <OndraSter> in assembler preferably :o) :D
[16:48:48] <izua> jan-: well, you get to experiment and figure out parts values with an analog schematic
[16:49:08] <izua> it is faster to write a few lines of code instead, imo :P
[16:49:15] <Kevin`> OndraSter: connected to the internet via a 300 baud controllerless modem?
[16:49:31] <izua> and hosting its own bbs-like interface, to configure it.
[16:49:37] <OndraSter> Kevin`, nah, regular ethernet
[16:49:42] <OndraSter> :D
[16:50:00] <izua> that's not very hard if you use wiznet chips or the like
[16:50:03] <izua> which do 'hardware' tcp
[16:50:16] <Kevin`> even if you have to use the whole ip stack, it's not hard
[16:50:21] <Kevin`> wait, that's written in c, isn't it
[16:50:22] <Kevin`> =p
[16:50:33] <izua> that might require a specs change :P
[16:50:44] <izua> you can copy the assembly listing, heh
[16:50:50] <Kevin`> on man
[16:51:06] <OndraSter> that's lame tho
[16:53:11] <Steffanx> Lame is acceptable?
[16:55:02] <Jan-> presumably you can't bit-bang ethernet on an AVR
[16:55:16] <Jan-> even the fastest ones only have 2 clock cycles per 10 base T ethernet bit :)
[16:55:35] <Jan-> although.... I guess... you could...
[16:55:39] * Jan- adopts thoughtful pose
[16:55:51] <RikusW> using avr32 maybe
[16:55:57] <Kevin`> Jan-: I suspect the intent was to use a proper ethernet controller connected to the avr
[16:56:02] <Jan-> I guess so
[16:56:04] <RikusW> but then there is builtin ethernet on some avr32's
[16:56:20] <OndraSter> yes
[16:56:22] <OndraSter> bah avr32
[16:56:28] <OndraSter> bazilion of registers
[16:56:36] <OndraSter> 8bits are enough!
[16:56:41] <OndraSter> and 640B of RAM too
[16:56:55] <Jan-> you'll laugh, but I'm actually more tempted to write assembly code
[16:56:57] <Jan-> it some ways it's simpler
[16:57:06] <Steffanx> Ofcourse
[16:57:06] <OndraSter> simpler to write, harder to think about
[16:57:28] <Jan-> I think also my idea may be doable without using interrupts
[16:57:36] <Jan-> which is also a way to simplify
[16:57:40] <Kevin`> http://pastebin.com/XqMcjq1k - c makes the whole process quite a bit easier =p
[16:58:02] <Kevin`> i'm not even USING ip in my project. it just game with the code
[16:58:25] <Steffanx> lufa?
[16:58:30] <Kevin`> yeah
[17:00:08] <Kevin`> *came with
[17:00:08] <Jan-> still it seems like it'd be easier to do all the setup in C
[17:00:31] <Jan-> although really learning all the wierd constants is possibly no harder than looking up memory addresses for certain things...
[17:01:00] <Kevin`> the constants are the same as the names in the datasheet
[17:01:20] <Kevin`> at least with the normal avr gcc library
[17:02:37] <Jan-> everything seems to be called something like WTF01BH
[17:05:45] <RikusW> Jan-: there is some method in the madness though
[17:06:00] <Jan-> I guess.
[17:06:13] <RikusW> once you've seen enough register / bit names you'll see the pattern
[17:06:18] <Jan-> If this was a microsoft product, it'd be called SomethingVeryLongAndCamelCased, but that'd be sort of OK because intellisense.
[17:08:40] <Jan-> sure some of it is OK
[17:08:43] <Jan-> UCSRB etc
[17:08:52] <Jan-> UBRRH is clearly going to have a UBRRL
[17:09:14] <Steffanx> Normal people just use UBRR :P
[17:09:17] <Jan-> but some of them: _BV()?
[17:09:26] <Tom_itx> broken vehicle
[17:09:27] <Jan-> UCSZ0?
[17:09:32] <Kevin`> I use 1<<x instead of _BV
[17:09:40] <Tom_itx> yeah it makes more sense
[17:09:48] * RikusW too
[17:09:58] * Tom_itx three
[17:10:55] <Jan-> right now I could:
[17:11:06] <Kevin`> defined are supposed to be all caps, not camelcase
[17:11:08] <Kevin`> defines*
[17:11:19] <Jan-> a) Figure out how to play the Green Hill Zone theme from Sonic the Hedgehog
[17:11:21] <Jan-> b) AVR
[17:11:25] <Jan-> c) sleep.
[17:12:09] <RikusW> d)movie ?
[17:12:19] <Jan-> Meh, maybe.
[17:12:26] <Jan-> Phil and his weird friend Si are hanging out
[17:12:28] <Jan-> so I can't really
[17:13:00] <RikusW> c then ?
[17:14:05] <Jan-> e) Bother Phil and Si until they agree to your movie plan.
[17:14:16] <Jan-> The thing is they're talking about video games.
[17:14:21] <Jan-> I'm not sure how welcome I'd be.
[17:14:32] <Steffanx> Very welcome
[17:15:16] <Steffanx> Just tell them you pre-ordered the new mass effect 3
[17:15:17] * RikusW don't play much games anymore, my pc is too slow for the new ones anyways :-/
[17:15:45] <Jan-> they'r etalking about Deus Ex
[17:15:51] <Jan-> even I know about Deus Ex
[17:18:22] <Jan-> what does Sonic *do* with all the golden rings?
[17:18:53] <Steffanx> He sells them on the black market
[17:19:23] <Jan-> and why do they go "diddle-ding" when he picks them up?
[17:20:41] <Steffanx> Jan- .. try to grap the rings from the jewelry store and you'll here 'diddle-ding' too
[17:21:07] <Steffanx> gra
[17:21:08] <Steffanx> b
[17:22:41] <Jan-> Oh god
[17:22:49] <Jan-> I'm searching wikipedia for information on why sonic needs the golden rings
[17:22:52] <Jan-> what has become of me
[17:23:19] <Steffanx> I think that means it's time to annoy phil
[17:23:21] * Tom_itx restrains
[17:23:22] <keenerd> The are onion rings. All that running owrks up an appitite.
[17:23:24] <superkuh> Jan-, did you find out why?
[17:23:47] <Steffanx> Sonic just has a lot of girl friends.. they all want rings
[17:24:12] <Jan-> superkuh: Well, the article on the first sonic game doesn't say.
[17:26:07] * Tom_itx feels this is becoming a 'social' channel
[17:26:57] <Jan-> Dr Robotnik wants to rule South Island, and to do this he needs six "chaos emeralds". Sonic is a blue hedgehog with the ability to run at supersonic speeds and collect rings.
[17:27:02] <Jan-> No further explanation is offered.
[17:27:17] <dirty_d> it seems eagle is inches centric rather tahn metric
[17:27:27] <dirty_d> thats wierd, i thought it was made in germany
[17:27:44] <Steffanx> uh dirty_d ?
[17:28:41] <dirty_d> Steffanx, if you make the grid size 0.01" smd pads line up perfectly with the grid lines
[17:29:01] <dirty_d> if you use any fraction of a mm they dont
[17:29:16] <Steffanx> ctrl+click on the components
[17:29:21] <Steffanx> And they'll snap to the grid
[17:29:23] <Kevin`> you should be able to change the grid
[17:29:26] <dirty_d> Steffanx, i know i did
[17:29:28] <Steffanx> There's a ulp for it to
[17:29:32] <dirty_d> the oridin snaps to the grid
[17:29:38] <dirty_d> but the pads still arent exactly on the grid lines
[17:30:02] <dirty_d> its close enough not to matte though if you want to use metric
[17:30:07] <dirty_d> because the pads are bigger than they need to be
[17:30:32] <Steffanx> There is probably a reason why you download EAGLE from cadsoftusa.com :P
[17:30:33] <OndraTablet> http://clip2net.com/s/1BC9D
[17:30:34] <OndraTablet> woot woot
[17:30:42] <dirty_d> wht im saying is the package was made with 0.01" grid lines
[17:30:44] <OndraTablet> my hex dump works
[17:31:25] <dirty_d> Steffanx, are the components really different in the gernam version?
[17:31:40] <Steffanx> i've no idea
[17:32:03] <OndraSter> no
[17:32:10] <OndraSter> the thing with SMDs is
[17:32:10] <dirty_d> gernam aminals
[17:32:12] <Steffanx> oh, there is cadsoft.de too
[17:32:16] <OndraSter> some are 1mm
[17:32:19] <OndraSter> some are .1"
[17:32:23] <Jan-> amminals?!
[17:32:25] <Jan-> where?!
[17:32:25] <OndraSter> and basedo n these
[17:32:26] * Jan- hides
[17:32:28] <dirty_d> lol
[17:32:38] <OndraSter> so if you have .8mm pitch
[17:32:41] <dirty_d> well QFP pin spacing is 0.5mm
[17:32:48] <OndraSter> you will be having hard times doing it on .0125" spacing
[17:32:53] <dirty_d> but in my eagle package its 0.02"
[17:32:57] <OndraSter> hmm
[17:32:58] <dirty_d> which is 0.508mm
[17:33:02] <OndraSter> find package with .5mm
[17:33:07] <dirty_d> close-e-damn-nough
[17:33:14] <dirty_d> i dont really care
[17:33:18] <Steffanx> :P
[17:33:24] <OndraTablet> well the pads will be slightly off
[17:33:26] <dirty_d> i dont mind using 0.01" grid or metric grid
[17:33:27] <Steffanx> If then don't care, then i don't care either :)
[17:33:27] <OndraTablet> it might cause problems
[17:33:38] <Jan-> so _BV just returns 1<<(arg)
[17:33:46] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[17:33:53] <OndraTablet> and actually if you are routing out pins from some package from diff units
[17:33:57] <OndraTablet> start FROM the package
[17:34:01] <OndraTablet> it snaps to the middle of the pin
[17:34:01] <dirty_d> i think theyre all in inches
[17:34:02] <Kevin`> OndraTablet:
http://kwzs.be/~kevin/re-hex.png ;p
[17:34:05] * Jan- tries to think of a reason that abstraction is useful
[17:34:29] <OndraTablet> Kevin`: :D
[17:35:12] <OndraTablet> I wish I had some kind of "AVR test environment" where I could send mnemonics
[17:35:12] <RikusW> Tom_itx: how about making #avr-social ?
[17:35:14] <OndraTablet> it would compile them
[17:35:17] <OndraTablet> and run them on the device
[17:35:36] <OndraTablet> AVR VM running on AVR device? :P
[17:35:44] <OndraTablet> with opcode compiler
[17:36:37] <keenerd> There are soft AVRs, meant for fgpa and emulation. That would get you pretty close.
[17:36:47] <Kevin`> OndraTablet: oh, is yours written in assembly? if so, respect for bothering :)
[17:36:52] <OndraTablet> Kevin`: yeah
[17:36:55] <OndraTablet> nothing but assembly
[17:37:20] <OndraTablet> http://pastebin.com/J3vTgvee
[17:38:04] <OndraTablet> probably could optimalize that
[17:38:23] <OndraTablet> damn pastebin broke tabs.... oh well
[17:39:06] <dirty_d> OndraSter, simavr?
[17:39:11] <OndraTablet> hmm
[17:39:16] <OndraTablet> maybe
[17:39:20] <Kevin`> I suppose that's technically more efficient than 'for(i=z;i<r17;i++) printf("%02x",*i);'
[17:39:22] <dirty_d> it works ok
[17:39:25] <OndraTablet> it is 0030 already :/
[17:39:30] <OndraTablet> Kevin`: haha
[17:39:30] <dirty_d> i used to to see how long code took to run
[17:39:37] <dirty_d> with gtkwave
[17:40:01] <OndraTablet> hmm one optimalization is on line 18, instead Z use Z+
[17:40:08] <OndraTablet> and forget about the ADIW on line 48
[17:40:12] <OndraTablet> dont see much more eh
[17:40:36] <OndraTablet> oh well, this is for debugging while in work anyway
[17:40:43] <OndraTablet> not time consuming or often happening
[17:41:10] <OndraTablet> anyway, doing this stuff without JTAG or any other kind of debug would be pain :)
[17:41:14] <OndraTablet> <3 Dragon
[17:41:25] <OndraTablet> cheap but powerful
[17:41:34] <OndraTablet> it just takes ages to upload bigger code :(
[17:41:38] <OndraTablet> mostly on this tablet
[17:42:21] <Kevin`> OndraTablet: the avr dragon remembers it's previous clock setting. be sure to set it, otherwise you may end up with something rather slow
[17:42:28] <OndraTablet> yeah
[17:42:30] <OndraTablet> I am on 2MHz
[17:42:39] <dirty_d> crap
[17:42:40] <OndraTablet> maximum you can set in AVR Studio 5
[17:42:45] <OndraTablet> 16MHz CPU ofc
[17:42:51] <OndraTablet> 2MHz JTAG clock
[17:43:11] <OndraTablet> back to the PC!
[17:43:14] <RikusW> OndraTablet: I've used a simple piece of fw doing ld / st to any address on the avr, and then sw in C++ on a PC to communicate with that
[17:43:34] <RikusW> using |= = &= operators I can make it look like C avr code
[17:43:58] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home check out support software U2S_Debug
[17:44:21] <RikusW> doing the fw on the avr is very simple
[17:44:59] <OndraSter> RikusW, wait, what?
[17:45:33] <RikusW> it will be rather slow as all commands go through usb/serial...
[17:45:45] <OndraSter> what I wanted to do kinda reminds me BASIC on A...
[17:45:47] <OndraSter> Atari
[17:45:52] <RikusW> so any ram/io address can be access from a C app on the pc
[17:46:01] <RikusW> accessed
[17:46:19] <OndraSter> I mean more like "compile on device and execute"
[17:46:37] <OndraSter> without writing to flash
[17:46:41] <OndraSter> and wearing it off
[17:46:42] <RikusW> then i have a C++ class with overloaded operators and an instance for each register...
[17:46:50] <RikusW> so no writing to flash
[17:46:57] <RikusW> but it will be slowish
[17:47:17] <OndraSter> oh gotcha
[17:47:23] <OndraSter> and the main testing app is running on your PC
[17:47:44] <RikusW> yes
[17:47:44] <Kevin`> arduino has something like that. there are people who use them without even realizing they can run code
[17:47:52] <RikusW> but it looks like avr-gcc code
[17:48:05] <RikusW> like PORTA = 0; on the PC
[17:48:15] <RikusW> and it sets PORTA on the AVR = 0
[17:48:23] <RikusW> using some C++ magic
[17:49:28] <OndraSter> hehe
[17:50:59] <RikusW> I used some xslt magic to extract the register/bit names and addresses from the AS4 xml files to generate the m32u2 header
[18:35:29] <dirty_d> daaaamn
[18:38:58] <OndraSter> dirty_d, some nasty pic?
[18:39:18] <OndraSter> bb
[18:39:21] <dirty_d> nah lol
[18:39:22] <dirty_d> eagle
[18:39:29] <OndraSter> lol
[18:39:30] <dirty_d> board and mayout arent consistent
[18:39:30] <OndraSter> yeah
[18:39:32] <dirty_d> but they are
[18:39:36] <OndraSter> hah
[18:39:40] <OndraSter> good luck solving that
[18:39:44] <dirty_d> an empty pin in the schematic, empty pin in oard
[18:39:51] <OndraSter> it is the worse error you can get
[18:39:55] <dirty_d> none/N$43
[18:39:59] <OndraSter> you won't ever sync it easily
[18:40:06] <dirty_d> its one error
[18:40:09] <OndraSter> hmm
[18:40:16] <dirty_d> i dont get it
[18:40:18] <OndraSter> I had one error as well... :D
[18:40:26] <dirty_d> i added a 1x1 header in sch
[18:40:35] <dirty_d> then placed in board
[18:40:37] <dirty_d> removed in both
[18:40:40] <dirty_d> now i have the error
[18:40:47] <OndraSter> you must edit BOTH at once
[18:40:51] <OndraSter> like, open both sch and brd
[18:40:54] <OndraSter> from the same board
[18:41:02] <dirty_d> it says if you dont you have to manually fix it
[18:41:06] <dirty_d> but theres nothign to fix
[18:41:12] <dirty_d> tehres nothing on the pin in both
[18:41:20] <OndraSter> hmmm
[18:41:30] <OndraSter> I wish I could easily switch to Altium Designer
[18:41:57] <OndraSter> my eyes are closing
[18:41:58] <OndraSter> bb
[18:42:18] <dirty_d> OndraSter, is it free?
[18:42:28] <OndraSter> absolutely not lol
[18:42:40] <OndraSter> hey, I already did setsuspendstate
[18:42:44] <OndraSter> how come it is not off yet
[18:42:46] <OndraSter> rundll32 powrprof.dll,SetSuspendState
[18:42:57] <OndraSter> look at AD
[18:42:58] <OndraSter> I am off
[18:43:01] <OndraSter> bb
[18:43:01] <dirty_d> its on thepiratebay
[18:43:02] <dirty_d> js
[18:43:05] <OndraSter> haha yeah
[18:43:36] <OndraSter> hmm I know
[18:43:41] <OndraSter> USB drivers are stuck
[18:43:48] <OndraSter> FT232 driver is the culprit
[18:43:55] <OndraSter> or in combination with some other driver
[18:44:08] <wollw> Anyone know about 6 pin attiny support in avra? The device definition lists the attiny10 but has flags for it not supporting LD or having X/Y registers but it seems to be assembling correct code if I just remove those flags.
[18:44:16] <OndraSter> now I have to get up... because even shutdown won't work, it will get stuck on logging off
[18:44:43] <wollw> I figure it's related to a previous attiny10.
[18:50:58] <dirty_d> OndraSter, i opened the xml file for the .brd and deleted the bastard line, problem solved
[19:03:45] <dirty_d> man eagle is a bitch to use
[19:28:35] <dirty_d> i think my board is done
[19:31:49] <rue_more> that ide based avr programmer is really just an STK200 with a different interface
[19:32:03] <rue_more> wollw, ask Tom_itx
[19:32:52] <wollw> rue_more: thanks
[19:34:28] <dirty_d> wow, that autoroute actually works really good
[19:35:18] <rue_more> dirty_d, the autorouter makes a mess
[19:37:10] <rue_more> then again, almost all my baords are 1 payer
[19:37:12] <rue_more> layer
[19:37:51] <rue_more> I etch my own boards, so most of the time I do not use 2 layers
[19:38:29] <rue_more> oh I'm falling asleep
[19:39:25] <dirty_d> i dont think i can make this board in 1 layer
[19:39:41] <rue_more> if your good, you can make almost anything in 1 layer
[19:40:09] <dirty_d> it cant always be possible
[19:40:26] <rue_more> its not
[19:40:46] <rue_more> well not without a reasonable number of jumpers
[19:46:28] <rue_more> kicad is not at all straightforward to use
[19:46:57] <rue_more> its pretty stickshift, and when your dealing with a split transmission like its got, getting lost is easy.
[19:48:09] <keenerd> Kicad is easy if you are coming from Cadence software. Almost the same interface.
[19:48:36] <rue_more> I'm like 99% of the rest, comming from eagle
[19:48:44] <rue_more> you know your way around it?
[19:48:49] <rue_more> kicad?
[19:49:15] <keenerd> Reasonably so. I have not tried autorouting or boards with crazy layers.
[19:49:32] <rue_more> I drew a schematic of a 10 pin connector with interconnected pins
[19:49:36] <rue_more> what do I do next?
[19:49:51] <keenerd> What are you trying to do?
[19:50:17] <rue_more> learn how to use kicad
[19:50:27] <rue_more> the idea is to route the connector as a board
[19:50:33] <rue_more> it has some interconnected pins
[19:51:36] <rue_more> you seem stumped
[19:51:52] <keenerd> I don't understand what you are trying to do.
[19:52:21] <rue_more> I drew a schemtic with a 10 pin header with interconnected pins, I want to make a board layout for it
[19:52:48] <rue_more> equiv to clicking "switch to board" in eagle from a schematic
[19:52:59] <keenerd> Ah, I see.
[19:53:00] <rue_more> how do I make this schematic into a baord
[19:53:37] <rue_more> you seem stumped
[19:53:55] <rue_more> on the schematic I added a 10 pin connected
[19:54:06] <rue_more> I wired pin 1 to 10
[19:54:10] <rue_more> 2 to 9
[19:54:13] <rue_more> 3 to 4
[19:54:14] <keenerd> No, just writing a lot. Yout want to tag the components on the schematic with footprints (CVpcb), then layout the board in PCBnew.
[19:54:15] <rue_more> 5 to 6
[19:54:20] <rue_more> and 7 to 8
[19:54:31] <keenerd> THere are icons for all this across the top of the kicad interface.
[19:54:38] <rue_more> I'd like to designa circuit board with that connector on it and those pins connected by traces on the baord
[19:54:41] <Tom_itx> rue_more why are you giving up on eagle?
[19:54:55] <rue_more> Tom_itx, its being tied up in money
[19:55:01] <rue_more> ok CVpcb!
[19:55:06] <rue_more> I'll click that!
[19:55:37] <rue_more> ok looks like I need to choose a component for my 10 pin connector
[19:56:15] <rue_more> looks like I have to choose 5x2 pin array
[19:56:27] <rue_more> I wanted 1x10, but whatever
[19:56:33] <keenerd> It has that...
[19:56:40] <rue_more> where?
[19:56:44] <Tom_itx> make one
[19:57:00] <Tom_itx> rue_more, what's being tied up?
[19:57:01] <keenerd> Or that, making footprints in Kicad is easier than anything else I've used.
[19:57:17] <rue_more> no I just want to learn how to make a board
[19:57:25] <rue_more> I'll use the 2x5
[19:57:42] <rue_more> it wanted to save it as a .net, so I did
[19:57:44] <rue_more> what next?
[19:57:48] <keenerd> Maybe reading something like
http://kicadhowto.wikidot.com/se1main would be helpful?
[19:58:06] <rue_more> no images, not helpfull
[19:58:10] <rue_more> erp
[19:58:11] <rue_more> ...
[19:58:49] <rue_more> no its not dosn't step by step say how to make a schematic into a board
[19:59:00] <keenerd> Yes they do.
[19:59:01] <rue_more> I finished the CVpcb, what next?
[20:00:07] <keenerd> http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html
[20:00:07] * Tom_itx points rue_more to the 'click next page' link
[20:01:07] <keenerd> The teholabs page is the shortest end-to-end kicad guide I've ever seen, should be good for you ;-)
[20:02:10] <rue_more> it should not take 10 pages to expalin how to get from a schematic to a baord...
[20:02:34] <Tom_itx> eagle says just click this icon
[20:02:54] <keenerd> It takes one page. Read
http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html
[20:03:42] <rue_more> too much expalining, I just want to know the 100 buttons I need to click to get from schematic to baord...
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> The main KiCad window consists of 5 buttons. In order left to right the sub programs are:
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> eeSchema - a schematic program
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> CVpcb - a program linking schematics to footprints
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> PCBnew - a PCB layout tool
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> GerbView - a gerber viewer
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> Bitmap2Component - a program for converting bitmaps for use on PCBs etc.
[20:05:37] <rue_more> dont care, say what to click in what seqence
[20:05:48] <rue_more> I dont want ot know the history of kicad in the middle of the instructions
[20:05:54] <Tom_itx> you sound like a spoiled rotten windows user
[20:06:00] <rue_more> :)
[20:06:09] <rue_more> cmon, its 1 button in eagle!
[20:06:26] <rue_more> I'm just trying to move the component
[20:06:29] <Tom_itx> dude i've never used kicad
[20:06:32] <rue_more> I'v rotated it 8 times how
[20:06:35] <Kevin`> you press the button and it reads your mind and autoroutes a pcb? awesome
[20:06:39] <Tom_itx> never even loaded it
[20:06:40] <keenerd> Wait for Apple to release iPCB, then you'll have the software you want.
[20:06:52] <rue_more> I use linux
[20:07:10] <rue_more> M!
[20:07:12] <Tom_itx> keenerd, does it have erc?
[20:07:14] <rue_more> M moves a part!
[20:07:23] <Tom_itx> where the board is tied to the schematic
[20:07:32] <Tom_itx> to eliminate wiring mistakes?
[20:07:57] <Tom_itx> and drc
[20:08:02] <keenerd> Tom_itx: Of course. And decent back-annotation support for when you find mistakes.
[20:08:15] <Tom_itx> i might load it one day and have a look
[20:08:49] <Tom_itx> is it hard to set up the output files to make your gerber set?
[20:08:52] <rue_more> hmm the trace wont stay down, I hit the target and it thinks I need to keep going
[20:09:10] * Tom_itx gives rue_more a nail and hammer
[20:09:27] <keenerd> Tom_itx: No. Choose the format and save.
[20:09:33] <rue_more> its harder than that, if I reach for the hammer, the trace just dissapears
[20:11:58] <rue_more> AND when I'm routing wires on the pcb, it wont let me take the mouse cursor out of the window
[20:12:00] <keenerd> Double click when you are done laying the trace.
[20:12:08] <rue_more> ugh, I didn't try that
[20:12:20] <rue_more> THANKYOU
[20:12:26] <rue_more> see? its the little things
[20:12:50] <keenerd> Turns out these little things are covered in any of dozens of ten page tutorials.
[20:12:52] <rue_more> the tutorial say NOTHING about that
[20:13:27] <rue_more> he goes on alot about white and blue and green lines, never uses the term ratsnest tho
[20:15:04] <keenerd> Depends on how newb friendly the tut is.
[20:16:10] <rue_more> can I change the track drawing mode to always from staight from last position to the cursor without smart 45's and 90s?
[20:17:03] <keenerd> Dunno what you mean.
[20:17:23] <rue_more> right now if I click and move the cursor
[20:17:26] <rue_more> it'll do
[20:17:29] <rue_more> (for example)
[20:17:33] <rue_more> \_______
[20:17:49] <rue_more> I always want a straight line from the last point to the cursor
[20:18:11] <keenerd> So at funny angles instead?
[20:18:23] <rue_more> in eagle, you use the right button to change the mode of this
[20:18:33] <rue_more> yea, thats what I want, funny angles
[20:20:08] <keenerd> I've only ever needed to do that once.
[20:20:43] <keenerd> Um, you can sort of do it my drawing a straight line, then hitting 'm' over one end of the line.
[20:20:56] <keenerd> That will let you make ugly looking angles.
[20:21:37] <keenerd> There is probably a better way, but it'll always look hideous ;-)
[20:25:14] <dehuman> hey its avr
[20:25:54] <Tom_itx> hey non human
