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[03:00:41] <jadew> how often do spice simulations come up with bad results?
[03:15:34] <jadew> so I have an opamp getting neg feedback from a 1 ohm shunt resistor, which is in series with the load. the output of the opamp goes into a darlington that amplifies the current, from it's emitor I have => load => that 1ohm shunt => ground, the feedback comes from between the shunt and the load
[03:15:53] <jadew> it all works fine in this format, I can limit the current just fine
[03:16:44] <jadew> however, if my load is another classic neg. feedback opamp circuit, that controls the voltage
[03:17:36] <jadew> also with a darlington to amplify current to max, I get max current on the output, altho the second opamp and darlington are not connected to the main rails
[03:17:50] <jadew> but between the output of the first opamp and the ground
[03:19:24] <jadew> what's strange, is that I get 0 volts drop on the shunt resistor
[03:19:32] <jadew> this is a spice error, right?
[03:22:00] <Richard_Cavell> I have a circuit where a light turns on and shines onto a light dependent resistor, which keeps the circuit going. It's kind of like a latch I suppose. Has this arrangement ever actually been used for real?
[03:23:04] <impulze> i guess it's not possible to see how much ram your program will use on the chip?
[03:23:12] <impulze> i.e. by using objdump/size?
[03:23:24] <Richard_Cavell> oh sorry wrong channel
[03:23:38] <jadew> lol, I asked on the wrong channel too
[03:23:39] <jadew> haha
[03:24:36] <jadew> impulze, the ram is dependent on what your program does so it uses it dynamically, however I hear some compilers are able to tell you how much stack your functions are going to eat up
[03:25:30] <jadew> so if you don't do any recursive stuff, you should be able to tell how much ram your program will use
[05:01:19] <Neon> Hello, I'm using two atmega128rfa1 chips with Atmel's ZigBee implementation BitCloud (+ Profile Suite) and I'm trying to read a temperature measurement attribte using ZCL_ReadAttributeReq, but I'm getting a ZCL_SENDING_ERROR_STATUS as response status. What can cause this error?
[06:03:25] * amee2k idly lightens DarkSector's sector
[08:13:44] <pc_magas> Kalispera goodevening
[09:01:51] <rue_mohr> neon its wireless, wireless never works right
[09:03:49] rue_mohr changed topic of
#avr to: Start here:
http://www.avrbeginners.net http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/ http://www.avrfreaks.net STAY AROUND IF YOU WANT AN ANSWER, TIMEZONES!
[09:41:07] <cyanide> can anyone confirm if this type of flood fill will be fine?
[09:41:08] <cyanide> http://i.imgur.com/Etrat.png
[09:43:14] <Vectory_> wat is flood?
[09:43:34] <cyanide> check the pic
http://i.imgur.com/Etrat.png
[09:43:44] <cyanide> the dark areas are copper
[09:44:02] <cyanide> the complete flood area is the ground signal
[09:44:30] <Vectory_> what size is that, 5 cm^2 ?
[09:44:43] <cyanide> yes
[09:54:22] <Sgt_Lemming> so, access license agreement for our potential space today
[09:54:38] <Sgt_Lemming> now to work out if we can afford the damn thing >_<
[11:29:05] <amee2k> why do people still put large stickers on product packages like "digitally controlled" or "microprocessor controlled" or "microcontroller operated"
[11:29:25] <amee2k> i mean, even a fucking egg timer is microprocessor controlled these days >_<
[11:29:46] <Steffanx> Why you even care?
[11:29:59] <amee2k> dunno
[11:30:27] <cyanide> pic of said stickers?
[11:30:27] <Steffanx> :)
[11:30:33] <amee2k> i just kind of realized that it hasn't been anything special for like a decade now
[11:31:07] <Steffanx> My solder iron is "mickroprozessorgeregelt" :)
[11:31:13] <Steffanx> *mikro
[11:31:49] <amee2k> mickroprozess sounds like mickrig >_>
[11:32:06] <cyanide> i would totally put such a sticker on my board lol
[11:32:43] <amee2k> "microcontroller operated" ?
[11:32:58] <Steffanx> Nah, it's German amee2k :)
[11:33:10] <cyanide> yeah
[11:33:17] <amee2k> i weis dass es deutsch is :P
[11:33:21] <Steffanx> Ok ok
[11:33:38] <Steffanx> but maybe that explains why it's "mickrig" :)
[11:34:07] <amee2k> lol
[11:34:09] <amee2k> deutschland ist das land der ingenieure \o/
[11:34:48] <Steffanx> Es ist ein Ersa lötstation :)
[11:35:02] <amee2k> lol ersa
[11:35:15] <Steffanx> Nothing wrong with it..
[11:35:25] <amee2k> i didn't say otherwise :P
[11:35:32] <Steffanx> Yes you did
[11:36:29] <amee2k> toolcraft ST80D on my end
[11:36:34] <amee2k> http://images.esellerpro.com/2600/I/514/88/588999_BB_00_FB.EPS.jpg
[11:37:36] <Steffanx> Toolcraft isn't that something Aldi sells all the time?
[11:37:42] <Steffanx> Oh, no that's Topcraft
[11:37:46] <amee2k> hmm dunno about aldi
[11:37:48] <amee2k> but conrad does
[11:38:02] <amee2k> which is kinda convenient because i can get tips over the counter
[11:38:27] <Steffanx> Conrad… the most expensive shop ever
[11:38:35] <amee2k> no shit
[11:40:08] <amee2k> it works just fine... only thing i couldn't find yet is a replacement iron or heating element for it
[11:40:29] <amee2k> but i've been wondering if i could just make an adapter for that 5-pin din connector and use generic ones
[11:41:03] <Steffanx> You have to figure out how it measures the temp..
[11:44:51] <amee2k> mmh, no i mean ones with temp sensor
[11:44:56] <amee2k> but for another type of station
[11:45:42] <amee2k> would have to take one apart to see that the temp sensors are compatible
[11:46:13] <amee2k> hmm i don't suppose there are any unofficial connector standards for soldering irons?
[12:34:18] <OndraSter> duh
[12:34:25] <OndraSter> there are TWO circles on the mega
[12:34:33] <OndraSter> which one is the 1st pin marker?
[12:35:13] <OndraSter> I'd guess the one which you can read on the top left when you have the title rotated on you
[12:41:12] <ziph> OndraSter: I wouldn't.
[12:42:01] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:42:04] <OndraSter> how else then
[12:42:14] <ziph> What package?
[12:42:26] <OndraSter> TQFP64
[12:44:30] <ziph> It doesn't have 3 holes does it?
[12:45:08] <OndraSter> nop
[12:45:32] <ziph> TQFP's will often have three, a small one on pin 1 and two larger ones on adjacent corners.
[12:45:38] <ziph> Which MEGA is it?
[12:46:10] <OndraSter> 128a
[12:46:22] <OndraSter> yeah smaller is on the top left corner
[12:46:53] <ziph> Yeah, that's probably it.
[12:47:21] <ziph> I've seen TQFP's where the text isn't right way up when pin 1 is top left though, so don't go off the text. ;)
[12:52:07] <OndraSter> where is my solder wick
[12:52:10] <OndraSter> WHERE IS MY SOLDER WICK
[12:53:51] <izua> soldered to the blob of solder that was once a solder wire
[12:56:50] <RikusW> OndraSter: you need a Plato EW-103 tip
[12:56:58] <RikusW> its much better than wick
[12:57:15] <RikusW> even works on 0.5mm pitch
[12:57:30] <RikusW> and flux ofcourse
[12:58:03] <RikusW> I soldered +100 m32u2's using that tip
[14:04:40] <Vectoray> sup
[14:29:56] <OndraSter> ziph, yeah, it is the top left corner
[14:29:59] <OndraSter> JTAG connected :)
[14:30:22] <OndraSter> but after adding FTDI FT232, the FT got immediatily hot and didn't show up in device manager... and voltage dropped to 0.2V :P
[14:30:25] <OndraSter> short somewhere
[14:30:33] <OndraSter> maybe bad chip, I did some wanky stuff with it
[14:30:37] <OndraSter> soldered new one
[14:30:38] <OndraSter> let's see
[14:31:43] <Steffanx> Probably a short.. a bad chip isn't very likely
[14:32:51] <OndraSter> nope
[14:32:54] <OndraSter> even new one
[14:32:56] <OndraSter> perfectly soldered
[14:33:00] <OndraSter> doesn't work
[14:33:03] <OndraSter> and voltage drops to 0
[14:33:06] <OndraSter> (PC probably cuts it off)
[14:34:01] <OndraSter> I don't have any caps soldered on the board (haven't arrived yet)
[14:34:07] <OndraSter> it doesn't explain it tho
[14:34:33] <OndraSter> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3936936/brdschema/logicboard.png
[14:34:35] <OndraSter> this is the board
[14:34:44] <OndraSter> I have soldered only USB connector, JTAG connector, atmega and FTDI
[14:34:59] <Steffanx> Use a multimeter to find shorts?
[14:35:06] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:35:15] <OndraSter> okay
[14:35:26] <OndraSter> mine has only 200R range
[14:35:27] <OndraSter> the lowest
[14:35:46] <Steffanx> No beeper?
[14:35:47] <Steffanx> :)
[14:35:49] <Steffanx> I love that
[14:35:52] <OndraSter> well yes
[14:35:54] <OndraSter> but that won't help
[14:36:03] <OndraSter> since the short is something like 0.00nothing
[14:36:19] <Steffanx> or not
[14:37:21] <Steffanx> You have a detailed photo of the current pcb, or maybe a pcb layout?
[14:37:28] <OndraSter> ye
[14:37:32] <OndraSter> the thing is
[14:37:36] <OndraSter> it WORKS when I desolder the chip
[14:37:41] <Steffanx> Yay
[14:37:53] <OndraSter> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3936936/boards2/logicbrd.png
[14:37:56] <Steffanx> You made the footprint yourself?
[14:38:02] <OndraSter> no
[14:38:05] <OndraSter> sparkfun I think
[14:39:58] <OndraSter> I can try on another board
[14:40:03] <OndraSter> even though this one passed etest
[14:40:10] <OndraSter> wait, I can't, I don't have second USB connector
[14:42:41] <OndraSter> I doubt it minds running without caps on vcc and on 3v3out
[14:43:10] <OndraSter> anyway yes, there is some short
[14:45:54] <mrfrenzy_> did you triple check the footprint?
[14:47:22] <OndraSter> right now, yes
[14:59:57] <OndraSter> second board, same behaviour
[15:00:03] <OndraSter> shorted somewhere
[15:00:07] <OndraSter> on the FTDI
[15:06:41] <OndraSter> I bought these ft232 from china so who knows
[15:21:27] <OndraSter> hmm
[15:21:31] <OndraSter> still no idea WHY IT DOESN'T WORK
[15:21:38] <OndraSter> WHERE IS THE SHORT damnit
[15:21:42] <OndraSter> I've been cutting the lines
[15:27:46] <LmAt> why is this room not called ##avr?
[15:29:18] <OndraSter> I have far worse problem...
[15:29:23] <OndraSter> chip itself - not shorted VCC to GND
[15:29:27] <OndraSter> board itself - not shorted VCC to GND
[15:29:34] <OndraSter> chip on board -- VCC shorted to GND
[15:29:36] <OndraSter> -.-
[15:33:06] <LmAt> OndraSter; What chip?
[15:33:20] <LmAt> OndraSter; The other day I used the Foo18BarF and it was kind of like tha.
[15:33:29] <OndraSter> ft232
[15:34:35] <OndraSter> I'M down to crazy stuff, like soldering just one half of the pins
[15:36:30] <OndraSter> I wish I had rentgen
[15:36:32] <OndraSter> I could look below the chip
[15:38:32] <LmAt> lol
[15:38:39] <LmAt> OndraSter; What's a rentgen?
[15:39:36] <OndraSter> roentgenM
[15:39:39] <OndraSter> or whatever you call it
[15:45:50] <OndraSter> LOL
[15:45:52] <OndraSter> it WAS short
[15:45:56] <OndraSter> well hidden!
[15:46:04] <OndraSter> appearantly I did the same short on both chips xD
[16:05:43] <OndraSter> I bought myself new Sn
[16:05:49] <OndraSter> it is some German one
[16:06:01] <OndraSter> Pb38Cu2
[16:06:07] <OndraSter> S-Sn60
[16:06:11] <OndraSter> it is 0.5mm
[16:06:13] <OndraSter> it is PERFECT
[16:06:45] <amee2k> german engineering ftw
[16:07:53] <amee2k> OndraSter: its called x-ray :P
[16:09:55] <OndraSter> yeah that
[16:10:06] <amee2k> and err, i know what you mean
[16:10:27] <amee2k> it would make reverse engineering multilayer boards practical too
[16:12:03] <amee2k> CapnKernel: do you want to offer aluminium-core PCBs too?
[16:12:08] <amee2k> or only FR4
[16:16:05] <OndraSter> which colors are RX and TX?
[16:16:12] <OndraSter> which one is green and which one is red
[16:16:13] <OndraSter> usually
[16:16:31] <OndraSter> green RX red TX?
[16:16:39] <OndraSter> sounds about right
[16:16:47] <OndraSter> but if I knew which LED is which one :D
[16:16:50] <OndraSter> they are both in single tape reel
[16:17:39] <amee2k> pull one out and put it on power?
[16:17:45] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:17:53] <amee2k> or look if the reel has a sticker
[16:18:01] <OndraSter> it is single LED
[16:18:02] <OndraSter> from reel
[16:18:04] <Steffanx> Use the diode tester of the multimeter you have on your desk :)
[16:18:04] <OndraSter> cut off
[16:18:10] <amee2k> oh
[16:18:54] <amee2k> often enough diode testers don't have enough open circuit voltage to forward bias a LED
[16:19:12] <OndraSter> oh
[16:19:13] <OndraSter> it does
[16:19:16] <OndraSter> it is green!
[16:19:20] <amee2k> :)
[16:19:25] <OndraSter> the green dot means that it is cathode right?
[16:19:46] <OndraSter> yes.
[16:21:36] <asteve> cathode your mom
[16:21:48] <amee2k> and anode's yours
[16:22:37] <asteve> anode mine? no, no, no, anode yours!
[16:22:49] <amee2k> can't be
[16:22:54] <amee2k> mine is the thermal pad already
[16:22:59] <asteve> makes sense
[16:23:05] <amee2k> :P
[16:24:36] <OndraSter> woop woop
[16:24:38] <OndraSter> IT WORKS
[16:24:46] <OndraSter> and no short or rotated IC
[16:24:47] <OndraSter> I like it.
[16:24:50] <OndraSter> time to go
[16:24:52] <OndraSter> :D
[16:24:52] <OndraSter> afk
[16:25:03] <amee2k> \o/
[16:27:26] <Tom_itx> wb
[16:29:39] <amee2k> i think he didn't like the decor :P
[16:29:55] <OndraSter> oh Tom_itx I paid the import tax for the boards (if I didn't tell you)
[16:30:06] <Tom_itx> but you did
[16:30:13] <OndraSter> ok lol
[16:30:20] <OndraSter> and I found out that I used 4x4mm push buttons on board and bought 6x6mm buttons
[16:30:28] <OndraSter> 4x4 are not available here... they have to come from china :(
[16:30:29] <Tom_itx> what is Sn?
[16:30:32] <OndraSter> stroncium
[16:30:36] <OndraSter> no idea how you call it in english
[16:30:39] <OndraSter> this is latin
[16:30:43] <OndraSter> "cin" in CZE
[16:30:57] <OndraSter> once more JTAG to be sure it works...
[16:32:05] <amee2k> strontium is Sr iirc
[16:32:13] <amee2k> Sn would be tin i think?
[16:37:26] <OndraSter> yea, I ment tin
[16:37:52] <Tom_itx> rin tin tin
[16:37:55] <OndraSter> :D
[16:37:58] <OndraSter> okay
[16:37:59] <OndraSter> JTAG works
[16:38:08] <OndraSter> soldered the remaining holding pins for USB, time to change stations
[16:38:38] <OndraSter> it looks ALMOST like a profi made board lol
[16:38:47] <OndraSter> still missing parts to solder
[16:38:52] <OndraSter> like... all headers except JTAG
[16:39:01] <Tom_itx> well shouldn't it?
[16:39:03] <OndraSter> (yeah, I am JTAG freak, I don't have even ISP anywhere taken out)
[16:39:11] <OndraSter> it should!
[16:39:16] <OndraSter> it will impress them :P
[16:39:21] <OndraSter> and I will get A+++++++
[16:39:24] <OndraSter> hopefuly
[16:39:26] <OndraSter> :D
[16:40:38] <Tom_itx> oh it's for a grade?
[16:43:06] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:48:45] <P3X018> I don't quite understand the usage of sfrb and sfrw. The book says that its an indication to the compiler that IN and OUT instr. are used. So how would you translate something like: sfrb PINA = 0xFF to assembly code?
[16:48:59] <P3X018> How can you "write" to PINx?
[16:52:35] <carp3> what's the point of writing to PINx ?
[16:56:27] <amee2k> isn't the PIN register all read-only?
[16:56:28] <P3X018> Dont know, it was stated in a textbook; sfrb PINA = 0xFF <-- does this mean writing to PINA or something else?
[16:56:58] <amee2k> writing to it shouldn't have any effect and just waste some clock cycles
[16:59:49] <Tom_itx> amee2k, it's a little known fact that you can write to PINx. it's primary intent is to read the pin though
[17:03:55] <amee2k> Tom_itx: what does writing to it do?
[17:04:25] <amee2k> all the datasheets specify it as read only iirc
[17:05:08] <Tom_itx> changes the value
[17:05:13] <amee2k> and where the fuck is the download link for the parametric table again >_<
[17:05:18] <Tom_itx> like writing to PORTx
[17:05:26] <amee2k> lol, okay
[17:05:39] <Tom_itx> i swear!
[17:05:50] <amee2k> for some reason i can never find the parametric table when i need it
[17:05:57] <Tom_itx> it's on my site
[17:06:04] <Tom_itx> the pdf?
[17:06:10] <amee2k> no, the spreadsheet
[17:06:40] <amee2k> i want to filter it to see if they have some small mcus that work >20MHz
[17:08:17] <amee2k> Tom_itx: mmh, where on your site?
[17:08:20] <Tom_L> http://www.atmel.com/PFResults.aspx#(data:(area:'',category:'34864[33180,34282]',mature:!f,pm:!((i:8238,v:!(0,16)),(i:8394,v:!(0,17)),(i:8362,v:!(0,27)),(i:8282,v:!())),view:table),sc:1)
[17:08:31] <Tom_itx> try that
[17:08:36] <Tom_itx> crap
[17:08:42] <Tom_itx> didn't paste correct
[17:08:46] <amee2k> i only get a blank page
[17:09:00] <Tom_itx> search 'parametric table' in their search box 'entire site'
[17:09:15] <Tom_itx> then start narrowing the search
[17:10:15] <amee2k> no spreadsheet files with "parametric table" found >_<
[17:10:44] * Tom_itx is looking at it
[17:11:10] <amee2k> ???
[17:12:00] <amee2k> i went to advanced search, (with all words) "parametric table", file format .xls
[17:12:14] <Tom_itx> you didn't follow directions
[17:12:42] <amee2k> the advanced link is at top of the normal search results page
[17:12:52] <amee2k> i understood that as narrowing it down
[17:12:58] <Tom_L> http://tinyurl.com/89ptlt3
[17:13:24] <amee2k> that looks like the same link as before?
[17:13:45] <Tom_itx> it's a table
[17:13:52] <amee2k> its an empty page
[17:14:01] <carp3> www.tmcc.com/Atmel_Dan/Atmel_Parametric_Selector.xls
[17:14:26] <amee2k> \o/
[17:14:28] <amee2k> that one works
[17:14:38] <amee2k> apparently that search results link isn't bookmarkable
[17:15:58] <amee2k> wow, that table is pretty sweet
[17:16:48] <OndraSter> oh well, I am off
[17:16:49] <OndraSter> bb
[17:31:36] <amee2k> Tom_itx: hmm could it be that one of your pics on the boards page is wrong?
[17:32:02] <amee2k> the one next to "RS232 dongle" is, according to the file name, the oven triac board
[17:35:04] <Tom_itx> link?
[17:35:38] <amee2k> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/boards_index.php << middle right
[17:35:43] <amee2k> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/oven_triac_brd.png
[17:36:21] <amee2k> i think the "rs232" and "new batch" lines are each one pic too high
[17:36:30] <Tom_itx> below
[17:36:49] <amee2k> oh
[17:37:00] <amee2k> now some things make sense :P
[17:37:06] <Tom_itx> i noticed that the other day
[17:37:22] <Tom_itx> some of those 'tables' i put the description above and some below
[17:37:24] <Tom_itx> i should fix that
[17:37:29] <amee2k> would probably help to insert a <hr> between rows
[17:37:49] <amee2k> so it is clear which description belongs to which row of pics
[17:37:53] <Tom_itx> some of those pages are pretty dated
[17:38:07] <Steffanx> <hr /> amee2k :P
[17:38:33] <amee2k> i'm still html4 :P
[17:38:48] <Steffanx> Tom_itx uses xhtml :)
[17:38:53] <amee2k> transitional forever is the way *nod*
[17:39:19] <amee2k> well, everyone is entitled to a fetish of choice :P
[17:39:45] <Steffanx> Unfortunately .. yes
[17:39:47] <Tom_itx> the page sucks, the content is ok
[17:40:07] <amee2k> Steffanx: well, if you don't like having fun, suit yourself
[17:40:32] <Tom_itx> what can i say... he uses a mac
[17:40:33] <Steffanx> I don't talk about myself amee2k
[17:40:36] <amee2k> Tom_itx: yeah, you've got a huge amount of content on there for a one man show
[17:41:59] <amee2k> i've been meaning to set up a homepage for like 5+ years now but cbf to put together some content for it
[17:42:05] <Tom_itx> just ripped this damn stencil
[17:42:25] <Tom_itx> i still think it'll work for a while
[17:42:33] <amee2k> all i've got on it so far is some half-finished posts posts about gadget circuits >_<
[17:43:11] <Tom_itx> it's all just stuff i like to do
[17:43:16] <Tom_itx> so i take a few pics along the way
[17:43:20] <Steffanx> Write a blog about the nice conversations you have here amee2k :P
[17:44:11] <Steffanx> Do that and you're sure no one will visit your website
[17:44:55] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked at stats probably in over a year or more
[17:45:03] <amee2k> Steffanx: sorry, i'm not interrested in a twitter account. but thanks for trying anyway
[17:45:49] <Steffanx> I said 'blog' …
[17:46:32] <amee2k> i think twitter calls it microblogging
[17:46:41] <amee2k> or something like that
[17:46:53] <Steffanx> Twitter is called twitter.. or tweets
[17:47:19] <Jan-> hihi
[17:47:23] <amee2k> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microblogging
[17:47:48] <Steffanx> *hide*
[17:47:52] <amee2k> well, it really is just irc on a web page :P
[17:48:10] * amee2k grabs Steffanx by the ear and drags him out from behind the sofa
[17:48:12] <Steffanx> Don't believe everything that's on wikipedia
[17:48:26] <amee2k> twss
[17:48:27] <Jan-> frickenell
[17:48:33] <Steffanx> Ask Jan-, she knows
[17:48:39] <Jan-> what do I know?
[17:48:43] <Steffanx> Everything
[17:48:49] <amee2k> ooh, our favourite swedish dude is back \o/
[17:49:12] <Jan-> *sigh* not tonight
[17:49:14] <Jan-> I'm wrecked
[17:49:18] <amee2k> o.O
[17:49:23] <amee2k> too much cake?
[17:49:25] * Jan- slumps forward onto the keyboard
[17:49:28] <Jan-> too much work
[17:49:34] <amee2k> oh
[17:49:36] <Jan-> it's 2340
[17:49:39] <Jan-> and I just got home
[17:49:44] <Steffanx> No it's 00.40
[17:49:47] <Tom_itx> it is not
[17:49:52] <amee2k> yes it is
[17:49:57] <Jan-> and I have to get up at 0630
[17:49:57] <Tom_itx> not
[17:50:00] <amee2k> :P
[17:50:05] <Steffanx> Sam here Jan-
[17:50:13] <amee2k> Tom_itx: you should RMA your timezone. it has the offset all wrong >_<
[17:50:15] <Steffanx> same
[17:50:27] <Tom_itx> well poo, i get up at 3
[17:50:32] * Jan- puts her feet in a bowl of hot, soapy water
[17:50:35] <Jan-> Aaaaahhh :)
[17:50:39] <amee2k> 0.0
[17:50:48] * Jan- turns on the bubbles
[17:51:03] <Steffanx> No Dr. Phil for a foot massage?
[17:51:13] <Jan-> he got the hot water :)
[17:51:42] <Jan-> how're you guys
[17:51:59] <amee2k> bored
[17:52:05] <Jan-> damn I wish I was bored
[17:52:18] <amee2k> no you don't :P
[17:52:47] * amee2k idly commences labeling packages for stuff he sold on ebay recently...
[17:54:05] <Jan-> what sort of things do you sell
[17:54:14] <amee2k> random stuff
[17:54:52] <amee2k> i try to make a point of cleaning out stuff i don't need/use anymore like once a year
[17:55:13] <amee2k> in reality that usually turns out to be once every 18-24 months then >_>
[17:55:45] <amee2k> i have this problem that i feel bad about throwing away stuff that still works and it piles up on end after a while
[17:56:09] <Jan-> hoarder :)
[17:56:14] <amee2k> :P
[17:56:16] <Jan-> I don't like clutter
[17:56:23] * Jan- looks stern
[17:57:17] <amee2k> well, when it gets too much i go on ebay selling spree and put it up for sale. i think i've made like 100 bucks by cleaning up my room so far
[17:57:26] <Jan-> hehe
[17:57:35] <Jan-> Phil's dad had some old tube amplifiers he sold recently
[17:57:51] <Jan-> they were so old they'd gone through "obsolete", past "Junk" and into that magical realm called "collector's item" :)
[17:58:18] <amee2k> its not really cost time effective when i consider how much effort it is, but it is my way to cope with this "can't throw things away" tick that i have
[17:58:47] <Jan-> if more people felt like you, our society wouldn't be such an environmental disaster
[17:58:53] * Jan- recycles :)
[17:59:02] <amee2k> yeah, maybe :/
[17:59:11] <Jan-> also if there was just less of us.
[17:59:23] <Jan-> but that's unpopular :(
[18:00:04] <amee2k> well, unpopular doesn't mean it doesn't have a point :P
[18:00:28] <nevyn> human beings are a disease... and we.. are the cure.
[18:00:39] <amee2k> i also like fixing stuff... i've got a huge pile of stuff from "you can keep it if you can fix it" deals. like i just got 30 bucks for an old 2.1 sound system
[18:00:41] * Jan- HAS to get OUT of this PLACE
[18:01:16] <amee2k> some dork managed to rip off one of the satellite speaker cords >_<
[18:01:27] <Jan-> dummkopf
[18:01:40] <Jan-> Oh, by the way, my USB to serial widget got here.
[18:01:47] <Jan-> But the wires aren't labelled.
[18:01:51] <amee2k> how the f*k do you rip off like a 2x1.5sqmm cable??
[18:02:07] <Jan-> By being a thumb-fingered orang-utan
[18:02:19] <Jan-> people are
[18:02:31] <amee2k> and by rip, i mean a clean snap
[18:02:31] <Jan-> a friend of mine in LA has a buddy who just smashed up his laptop in a fit of anger
[18:02:42] <amee2k> ...
[18:02:43] <Jan-> and my friend did the data recovery off the hard disk
[18:02:54] <amee2k> well, thats just poor self control
[18:03:39] <amee2k> rage usually doesn't get you anywhere with people, how is it supposed to get you anywhere with objects then
[18:04:08] <Jan-> that snapped cable might be a trip or something
[18:04:10] <amee2k> all it manages is make you feel shitty twice... once when you're enraged and once when you're cleaning up the mess you made
[18:04:37] <amee2k> maybe. anyway, splicing it back together was like 5 minutes
[18:04:55] <amee2k> and now i've turned it into some free money \o/
[18:05:09] <Jan-> and you've saved a good bit of kit from going to landfill
[18:06:56] <amee2k> it is also pretty interresting to see what kind of stuff sells... i put up two satellite TV cards that were fairly expensive. they only went for the starting bid
[18:07:12] <Jan-> these old tube amps went for hundreds
[18:07:13] <Jan-> it was crazy
[18:07:42] <amee2k> but two ZIP100 drives i put up that i didn't really expect to sell at all are going pretty well. one sold yesterday for a tenner, and the other has 5 people watching
[18:07:57] <Jan-> people want to access old data I guess
[18:08:14] <amee2k> maybe
[18:08:27] <amee2k> well, tube amps are a bit more special than a zip drive i guess
[18:09:05] <amee2k> i've also got one position that is just a large box full of junk... old optical and floppy drives, lots of expansion cards
[18:09:52] <Jan-> we have a place here where you can take old computer gear and it gets sent to third world countries, so they can get online.
[18:10:02] <amee2k> i wanted to put up everything as one positon like "computer scrap, sold as is for salvage, so-many kilograms", but after seeing the drives go like that i'm considering putting up some stuff individually
[18:10:14] <Jan-> I'm not so sure if that's a very smart move economically but I guess it helps google ;)
[18:10:42] <amee2k> there are private comps here too that send old computers to third world countries too
[18:10:50] <amee2k> they're popular landfills these days :P
[18:11:50] <amee2k> there are some old enterprise class SCSI cards in that junk box that were kinda expensive
[18:11:58] <amee2k> 64/66 PCI
[18:12:32] <Jan-> oooh they used to be a fortune
[18:13:01] <amee2k> i've got a really expensive 8x sata raid controller with 3ware chipset too, but it is in a running server right now
[18:13:31] <amee2k> i need to move the data somewhere so i can get the card out to sell it, then switch the system to softraid
[18:13:53] <amee2k> Jan-: want some?
[18:14:08] <amee2k> the first one to agree to pay for shipping can have the box :P
[18:14:42] <Jan-> ha
[18:14:49] <Jan-> no old boxes here
[18:15:11] <amee2k> hehe
[18:15:22] <amee2k> there are some slot-loading scsi cdrom drives in there too
[18:15:39] * amee2k loves slot loaders
[18:15:42] <Tom_itx> bonus
[18:15:52] <amee2k> bonus?
[18:15:57] <amee2k> oh
[18:15:59] <amee2k> yeah, kinda :P
[18:16:12] <amee2k> i've even got a cartridge loading drive here somewhere too
[18:16:16] <amee2k> but haven't found it yet
[18:16:33] * amee2k . o O ( and where the heck is my folding rule gone >_< )
[18:16:58] <Jan-> OK so this serial USB widget
[18:17:12] <Jan-> it has a six pin connector on it, 0.1 inch spacing
[18:17:23] <Jan-> in order, the wires are yellow, white, green, red, blue, black.
[18:17:32] <amee2k> got a picture of it?
[18:17:34] <Kevin`> you need to look at the documentation, or probe it
[18:17:41] <Jan-> no docs supplied
[18:17:46] <Kevin`> on the internet
[18:17:56] <amee2k> examining the board to see where the connections are routed often works too
[18:18:09] <Kevin`> not many companies give you printed datasheets when you order a part anymore ;p
[18:18:45] <amee2k> i wouldn't order a part unless i already have the datasheet for it
[18:19:13] <Jan-> well I did wonder
[18:19:28] <Tom_itx> did it come with a scratch and sniff?
[18:19:35] <Jan-> ho ho ho
[18:19:37] <Jan-> you are a master wit
[18:19:50] <Kevin`> I finally got my china radio modules today, yay
[18:19:50] <Jan-> it was sold as a thing for a phone
[18:20:26] <Jan-> but everyone here told me to get it :/
[18:20:59] <Kevin`> is that one of those ca-42 things?
[18:21:00] <Tom_itx> did not
[18:21:09] <Jan-> did so!
[18:21:13] <Tom_itx> not
[18:21:33] <amee2k> ...
[18:21:34] * Tom_itx continues placing smt parts
[18:22:02] <amee2k> Tom_itx is a pick-n-place machine in disguise
[18:22:44] <Jan-> can't be
[18:22:47] <Jan-> he isn't making whirring noises
[18:22:50] * Jan- inclines an ear
[18:22:52] <Jan-> ...nope
[18:22:53] <Tom_itx> you're welcome to watch... just don't sneeze
[18:23:01] <Kevin`> Jan-: I guess it's not one of those then, so just probe it
[18:23:08] <Jan-> This is what I bought:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170752707978?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[18:23:12] <amee2k> is at least farting acceptable?
[18:23:30] <Jan-> Tom_itx: sneeze? why is that a problem?
[18:23:58] <amee2k> Jan-: because SMT parts that are only like a millimeter or two will fly away if you sneeze too hard
[18:24:02] * Tom_itx senses Jan- hasn't worked much with smt
[18:24:11] <Kevin`> Jan-: are you sure that's not one of these?
http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232R_CABLES.pdf
[18:24:20] <amee2k> and then you get to crawl around under your desk for an hour until you find it again
[18:24:37] <Jan-> Tom_itx: I might not be the most obvious person for it
[18:25:12] <amee2k> Jan-: feel over some circuit boards... the thingies that feel like goosebumps are tiny resistors or capacitors
[18:25:27] <Jan-> I've got circuit boards right here.
[18:25:54] <amee2k> old computer mainboard or pci card should be a good candidate for an example
[18:26:04] <Jan-> I know what circuit boards look like, too :)
[18:26:05] <amee2k> i've got pics but i don't think that'll help >_>
[18:27:13] <Jan-> I have seen circuit boards in the past, amee2k, I know what you mean.
[18:27:35] <amee2k> :)
[18:27:50] * amee2k idly fights FirefighterBlu3's fire
[18:28:01] <FirefighterBlu3> :}
[18:28:16] <Jan-> the whole disability thing isn't usually an issue
[18:28:21] <Jan-> but it's a pain in the ass with electronics
[18:28:23] <Jan-> I didn't expect it
[18:28:25] <Jan-> bah
[18:29:10] <Jan-> which lines on this thing do we need to identify?
[18:29:15] <Jan-> and what would we expect to see?
[18:29:56] <Jan-> "FT232R USB UART - No Software Found"
[18:29:59] <Jan-> need a driver, folks :/
[18:30:01] <Tom_itx> open a terminal and output "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" and you will see a square wave
[18:30:09] <Jan-> what sort of terminal
[18:30:19] <Tom_itx> bus terminal
[18:30:31] <Jan-> er, what?
[18:30:33] <Tom_itx> hyperterm
[18:30:35] <Tom_itx> i don't care
[18:30:53] <amee2k> the thing that looks like a dos box :P
[18:30:54] <Tom_itx> one that will see it
[18:30:55] <Jan-> oh like you'd use to talk to a modem
[18:31:00] <amee2k> exactly
[18:31:11] <Jan-> hm there is no serial term in windows 7
[18:31:21] <amee2k> iirc putty can do serial ports
[18:31:35] <Jan-> which lines do we need to identify
[18:31:37] <amee2k> i've used it for that before and it worked anyway
[18:31:46] <Kevin`> Jan-: tx and rx are most important
[18:31:47] <amee2k> RX, TX and ground
[18:32:06] <amee2k> the rest is only handshake or supply voltage and not very interresting
[18:32:16] <Kevin`> Jan-: open up the plastic on the cable and look at it, the ebay thing shows it as labelled there
[18:32:32] <amee2k> ground should be common, so put a continuity tester on the shield of the usb jack and start probing the wires
[18:32:43] <amee2k> if one is black, 90% that one is ground though
[18:33:03] <Jan-> black is at one end
[18:33:12] <Jan-> the colors go black, blue, red, green, white, yellow.
[18:33:25] <amee2k> then i'd install the drivers and lean on a key
[18:33:36] <amee2k> and check with the scope where the bits come out. that one is TX
[18:34:05] <Jan-> well that sucks
[18:34:14] <amee2k> then use a 150 to 470 ohm resistor or so to connect TX to the other ones in turn until i can see the characters coming back to the terminal
[18:34:30] <Jan-> pah why is there no documentation
[18:34:45] <Jan-> Kevin`: We're looking
[18:34:49] <amee2k> the resistor just in case to prevent damage to the IC when you connect TX to one of the handshake lines
[18:35:04] <Jan-> I can write a simple C# program to output things over serial
[18:35:06] <Jan-> for testing
[18:35:29] <amee2k> download putty or some other terminal app
[18:35:37] <Jan-> woo
[18:35:40] <Jan-> driver installed :D
[18:35:44] <amee2k> but anything that keeps the port buzzing will work
[18:36:02] <Kevin`> is writing a c# program really faster than doing while true; do echo UUUUU >/dev/ttyS0; done
[18:36:05] <Jan-> I'd rather find some docs and use those techniques to confirm the docs are in agreement with the device
[18:36:14] <Jan-> Kevin`: This isn't linux.
[18:36:35] <amee2k> Kevin`: well, that won't work on some legacy operating systems
[18:36:35] <Kevin`> Jan-: why not? you wouldn't even need a driver in linux. in that case it would be faster to hold down the U key I suppose
[18:36:46] <Jan-> why not what
[18:37:33] <Kevin`> why not linux, I mean
[18:37:41] <Kevin`> also, I linked a document before that may apply to the device
[18:37:48] <Jan-> well I use this PC for work stuff so I need it to... work, I guess.
[18:37:56] <Jan-> yeah I have Phil looking at that for me
[18:38:01] <Tom_itx> you might have to trace the wires back to the chip pins
[18:38:06] <Tom_itx> if there is no docs
[18:38:15] <Tom_itx> at least get the chip pdf
[18:38:59] <Jan-> the chip isn't exposed
[18:39:04] <Jan-> it's inside the USB connector
[18:39:56] <Jan-> Kevin`'s PDF file may be of some help
[18:40:05] <Jan-> but we have to drag out the scope to confirm it and that'll have to be tomorrow
[18:41:07] * Tom_itx breathes a sigh of relief
[18:41:26] <Jan-> whatup?
[18:41:40] <amee2k> if you have a strong suspicion, put a 150R resistor between the suspected RX and TX pins and see if characters come back to the terminal
[18:41:49] <Jan-> For that we'd need a terminal
[18:41:56] <amee2k> download putty
[18:42:02] <Jan-> could do
[18:42:09] <amee2k> could, but will?
[18:42:25] <Jan-> I think it's all part of the fact that windows tends to exclude technologies that haven't been in widespread use since the 70s :)
[18:43:11] <Kevin`> sucks, doesn't it? ;p
[18:43:36] <Jan-> on the other hand, my wifi works :)
[18:43:51] <Kevin`> so does mine?
[18:44:03] <Jan-> on linux?
[18:44:08] <Kevin`> sure, why not?
[18:44:10] <vectory> snap
[18:44:10] <Jan-> oooOOOOooooh!
[18:44:29] <theBear> me too, on err, 5 different machines, but that's all i gonna say
[18:44:33] <amee2k> i heard wifi on linux has become much better after the 70s
[18:45:05] <Jan-> I tend to assume that anything invented since 1990 is unavailable on linux :)
[18:45:33] <amee2k> well, video cards are still a moderate pain in the ass imo
[18:45:44] <vectory> you should assume that some of the stuff you use was invented on linux
[18:45:48] <vectory> or unix
[18:46:12] <Jan-> yeah and my ass invented farts
[18:46:15] <amee2k> 5$ chinese wifi sticks probably have shitty linux support
[18:46:36] <vectory> who needs wifi
[18:46:40] <vectory> i dont
[18:46:45] <amee2k> well, if i have it i don't mind it
[18:46:52] <Kevin`> amee2k: because the mac address is the same on all devices and the usb ids are corrupted, sure
[18:47:08] <amee2k> exactly
[18:47:25] <amee2k> i've got a broadcom card in my laptop that works fine
[18:47:47] <Kevin`> broadcom is one of the worst, so that's impressive :)
[18:47:56] <amee2k> bc4300 series i think
[18:48:04] <amee2k> worked out of the box
[18:48:06] <Jan-> see, I don't know what sort of wifi modem I Have
[18:48:09] <Jan-> It just works :)
[18:48:21] <amee2k> and a pc card thingy with an atheros chipset that works just fine too
[18:48:38] <amee2k> i don't have much other wifi gear here
[18:49:22] <Kevin`> Jan-: because someone else set it up for you ;p
[18:49:27] <Jan-> Great!
[18:50:05] <Jan-> I actually have no idea what this cable is really for
[18:50:13] <Jan-> other than that it's a 5v level serial device
[18:50:17] <Kevin`> all normal people need to use linux or whatever is someone doing the normal tech support
[18:50:18] <amee2k> Kevin`: i was about to say "because whoever set it up had no clue how to do it" but that works too :P
[18:50:48] <amee2k> i hope normal people will never use linux
[18:51:06] <Kevin`> Jan-: presumably you are going to use it to talk to a microcontroller interactively, because of the channel. how would you not know what it's for anyway
[18:51:16] <amee2k> so all the malware crap stays on funny systems like windows
[18:52:09] <amee2k> and why the fuck is shipping for this package suddenly 3 bucks more expensive than last week o.O
[18:52:24] <Tom_itx> because you procrastinated
[18:52:38] <Jan-> Kevin`: Well sure but presumably it's wired to suit some other piece of equipment
[18:52:39] <Kevin`> oh that reminds me, I should get one of those atomic clocks
[18:52:44] <amee2k> i did not
[18:53:10] <amee2k> when i put it up on ebay i figured 7EUR for shipping. now when i enter the same sizes into the shipping form i get 9.90
[18:53:55] <amee2k> and funny enough hermes doesn't even offer anything for 7EUR
[18:55:05] <Jan-> oh there's fricken pictures on the ebay auction!
[19:18:08] <amee2k> and i'm out of bubble wrap too :/
[19:18:57] <amee2k> and out of newspapers. i almost had to buy some for padding
[19:19:24] <Tom_itx> it's always interesting to get local papers as packing
[19:19:53] <amee2k> went to town this morning and talked some dude who hands out freebie tabloid junk at an intersection into giving me like half his stack
[20:11:35] <inflex> O_o
[20:11:51] <Tom_itx> -.-
[20:36:33] <rue_more> ..-
[21:10:33] <WormFood> does anyone know of a good device programmer (AVRs/eproms/flash/eeprom/gal/etc), at a reasonable price, that works under Linux?
[21:11:58] <Tom_itx> mine does 3 protocols of avr but that's it
[21:12:19] <Tom_itx> i suppose you could write some spi code for some of the others
[21:12:21] <WormFood> I'm talking about hardware
[21:12:45] <Tom_itx> it is hardware
[21:12:55] <Tom_itx> but only designed for avrs
[21:12:58] <CapnKernel> amee2k: I'm just offering FR4 at the moment, we'll see what happens later.
[21:16:31] <rue_more> WormFood, programmers like that are only reasonable if you build them yourself
[21:16:56] <Tom_itx> well there may have been one but i can't seem to find the link for it
[21:17:06] <Tom_itx> not sure about software support for it either
[21:17:36] <rue_more> WormFood, do you want to program a flash/eprom chip?
[21:17:48] <WormFood> yeah
[21:17:54] <rue_more> eeproms can be programmed with eep24c
[21:17:58] <WormFood> everything really
[21:18:03] <rue_more> avrs with avrdude
[21:18:08] <WormFood> I'm just wondering if there is anything available that has linux specific hardware to do this
[21:18:11] <rue_more> gal, tell me if you find out
[21:18:15] <WormFood> I don't have a specific flash to program
[21:18:36] <rue_more> there is a do it yourself schematic out there for one
[21:18:53] <Tom_itx> this works with avrdude and does all the 8bit avrs:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[21:18:58] <WormFood> yeah, I remember that, not that you mention it.
[21:21:42] <Tom_itx> actually i think that other one was a jtag
[21:50:00] -card.freenode.net:#avr- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify!
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[22:12:01] <CapnKernel> Can anyone recommend an SMD package Schottky diode that could be used as reversed power protection?
[22:12:16] <CapnKernel> 50V 1A I guess
[22:13:35] <theBear> not really, but the way today is going, i'd just grab one off an old hd pcb
[22:13:49] <theBear> heh, or go across the road and find a dead monitor with one on the curb :)
[22:15:44] <Tom_L> CapnKernel,
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?x=15&y=17&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=MBRA140T3GOSCT-ND
[22:15:46] <Tom_L> 40v
[22:39:50] <CapnKernel> theBear: Hi there. This is for a product, so I'm not after a one-off salvaged part. But thanks.
[22:40:15] <theBear> can always source them via the same method if you need a kickstart for p/ns
[22:46:55] <CapnKernel> Tom_L: Thank you
[22:53:37] <CapnKernel> Why is there no eparts site smart enough to understand "50v 1a smd schottky diode"?
[22:54:45] <Casper> because
[22:54:56] <Casper> use their parametric search instead
[22:55:03] <Casper> let's see...
[22:56:18] <Casper> found 1 page
[22:56:24] <Casper> err
[22:56:26] <Casper> no 33
[22:56:54] <CapnKernel> ?
[22:57:03] <Casper> so 802 that match diode schottky >=50V >=1A
[22:57:17] <Casper> 668 that match smd
[22:57:38] <CapnKernel> I didn't ask "how many diodes match this, by using their step-at-a-time parametric matching engine"
[22:57:48] <CapnKernel> I asked why there aren't eparts sites that will parse a simple text line.
[22:58:12] <Casper> because it ain't precise enought
[22:58:30] <Casper> and wouln't be efficient for the search
[22:58:33] <CapnKernel> Neither is the parametric search, that's not the point
[22:58:44] <CapnKernel> It's ok if there are 668 choices that match
[22:58:54] <Casper> the parametric is way more efficient and way more precise
[22:58:57] <CapnKernel> What I'm talking about is an easy way to seed the parametric search
[22:59:04] <CapnKernel> Rather than diving around with sliders and crap
[22:59:15] <CapnKernel> Because I can type a lot faster than I can dick around with a mouse
[22:59:15] <Casper> you know that sometime a 100V diode can't replace a 50V diode?
[22:59:32] <CapnKernel> Yes and it's up to me as an engineer to understand why.
[22:59:46] <CapnKernel> But the parametric search engine has this problem too. That's not what I'm not about
[23:00:50] <CapnKernel> "50v 1a smd schottky diode" is very easy to parse. "">=50v >=1a smd schottky diode" if you want to be picky. Sounds like an opportunity for some smart parts company to save its customers time.
[23:01:47] <Tom_itx> that's partially why it takes so long to make a 'good' BOM for a project
[23:01:54] <CapnKernel> EXACTLY
[23:01:59] <CapnKernel> Which is why I'm starting my business
[23:02:11] <CapnKernel> So much time is spent dicking around
[23:02:51] <Tom_itx> i've changed usb connectors 4 times now
[23:03:00] <CapnKernel> Here's my plan: You paste your ASCII BoM into my site, and my site does its best to parse what you wrote, and then helps you narrow down the possibilities that arose from that initial seed.
[23:03:09] <Casper> what bug me the most is that it's hard to impossible to actually save the search parameters
[23:03:24] <CapnKernel> That too.
[23:03:34] <Tom_itx> or find a cheaper workable part
[23:03:52] <CapnKernel> The searching we have today hasn't really come any further than what existed in the eighties, with green screen terminals.
[23:04:08] <CapnKernel> What if Steve Jobs turned his eye to constructing BoMs?
[23:04:31] <CapnKernel> You'd be swishing through components like it was a freaking axe.
[23:04:53] <CapnKernel> And people would say "we don't know why we did it the old way for so long
[23:05:09] <CapnKernel> This is what I want to do
[23:05:17] <CapnKernel> Ultimately of course.
[23:05:31] * Tom_itx goes to sleep
[23:05:42] <CapnKernel> Was I that boring? :-)
[23:06:39] <Casper> Tom_itx: the cheaper part actually is now doable on digikey as you can sort by price
[23:12:29] <CapnKernel> Haha, that's the *first* column heading CapnKernel clicks!
[23:15:26] <Casper> oh firefighter activity... but probably a false alarm...
[23:15:35] <Casper> CO detector triggered at a home
[23:17:09] <Casper> in the garage
[23:17:31] <Casper> nice home
[23:18:07] <Casper> http://g.co/maps/n7yx3
[23:20:37] <Casper> onsite...
[23:29:58] <Casper> 10-22... faulty detector
[23:30:24] <CapnKernel> Or they're brewing beer :-)
[23:31:06] <Casper> 10-22 btw is: service not required
