#avr | Logs for 2012-02-11

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[01:11:04] <rudolf_> hi
[03:27:26] <OndraSter> mornin
[03:45:42] <Sgt_Lemming> https://picasaweb.google.com/115277388924201849210/PCBS?authkey=Gv1sRgCK73t-Cw3pmLmwE#5707580235833973490 <--- latest revision of the RFID board, comments/criticism appreciated
[03:48:46] <OndraSter> what is that WIZ820io?
[03:48:53] <OndraSter> nvm
[03:49:58] <OndraSter> Sgt_Lemming, no loading capacitors at the crystal are not there for purpose
[03:50:10] <Sgt_Lemming> ...?
[03:50:44] <OndraSter> there should be 18 or 22pF usually loading caps for 16MHz crystal
[03:50:49] <OndraSter> between each pin an ground
[03:50:58] <Sgt_Lemming> crystal has caps built in
[03:51:18] <OndraSter> and where do they ground to?
[03:51:41] <Sgt_Lemming> can of the crystal is grounded to the ground plane, just haven't put the ground plane in yet
[03:51:49] <OndraSter> oh ok
[03:52:36] <OndraSter> have you run DRC on it?
[03:52:59] <Sgt_Lemming> fritzing's DRC is fail, epic epic fail
[03:53:35] <OndraSter> because that one via between 4th and 5th pin at the ethernet module is quite close to another trace
[03:54:08] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah, already noticed that one and fixed it, need to update the pic again but cbf
[04:02:05] <OndraSter> time to get up!
[04:12:41] <OndraSter> can atmega catch fire if you overvoltage it?
[04:14:26] <Sgt_Lemming> OndraSter, ANYTHING can catch fire if you overvolt it
[04:14:29] <Sgt_Lemming> even wire
[04:14:39] <OndraSter> well, wire just melts
[04:14:43] <OndraSter> at least for me
[04:15:22] <OndraSter> (I accidentaly used regular breadboard wire on something where was about 10 Amps... the wire was not happy lol)
[04:17:40] <Sgt_Lemming> I've made wire sublimate before, that's fun :-P
[04:26:05] <amee2k> OndraSter: i'd say it'll stop working way before it gets hot enough
[04:26:37] <amee2k> the epoxy on most IC packages should be able to handle significant temperatures, which the much softer thermoplastic of a breadboard won't
[04:27:10] <OndraSter> hmm
[04:27:54] <amee2k> one of my breadboards has some deformation on the center fold where i had a voltage regulator once that got pretty hot
[04:28:56] <amee2k> it was a 34063 with inappropriate drive configuration so the switching transistor stayed in the linear region and it got pretty hot but kept running without and further issues
[04:29:06] <OndraSter> hehe
[04:30:13] <amee2k> so the limiting factor is probably not what the IC can handle
[05:22:16] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/1A5FF
[05:22:22] <OndraSter> 0603 should fit on 1206 pad
[05:23:00] <amee2k> yep, looks like it
[05:23:38] <amee2k> hmm you ever seen my "1 1/2 parts LED constant current source"?
[05:24:17] <OndraSter> nope
[05:25:12] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vNXN4ZA/cimg4989b.jpg << an 0805 (i think) resistor's pad spacing is *exactly* the same as the lead pitch on a TO92 (LM317L)
[05:25:39] <OndraSter> heh
[05:26:54] <amee2k> the 68R resistor there yields something just under 20mA which is fine for most standard LEDs
[05:54:29] <cyanid3> ive got a question regarding interrupts
[05:55:01] <cyanid3> can i run one interrupt for rising edge, and another for falling edge of the same input?
[05:55:28] <cyanid3> if so, how would i do it?
[05:56:55] <Sgt_Lemming> cyanid3, I'm not sure, but I would think not
[05:57:10] <cyanid3> i want to debounce the input
[05:57:26] <cyanid3> and i dont want to waste processor cycles
[05:57:52] <cyanid3> i was thinking of setting a variable to 1 when it sees a rising edge, then setting it to 0 when it sees the falling edge
[05:58:18] <cyanid3> and depending on the variable value (0 or 1), either does what the interrupt is supposed to do or just skips it
[05:58:35] <Sgt_Lemming> that probably won't work, as the thing about debounce is that switches etc can bounce from 0 - 1 and back a few times
[05:58:52] <Sgt_Lemming> so you'd just trigger your interrupt a couple of times instead
[05:59:11] <cyanid3> i will be using hall effect sensors, so i would assume they wouldnt bounce
[05:59:16] <cyanid3> or do they?
[05:59:20] <cyanid3> im not sure
[05:59:30] <cyanid3> digital hall effect sensors, outputting a square wave
[05:59:45] <Sgt_Lemming> no, they wouldn't bounce I would think
[05:59:49] <cyanid3> ok
[06:00:00] <cyanid3> will need to source a couple of samples and check
[06:00:06] <cyanid3> thanks!
[06:00:40] <cyanid3> im playing with an arduino
[06:00:52] <cyanid3> how big is a step to migrate to pure c programming with an avr?
[06:01:30] <Sgt_Lemming> pretty big step
[06:01:47] <amee2k> i'd say that rather depends on whether you have previous C experience or not
[06:02:20] <cyanid3> i have some previous exposure, but i wouldnt consider it experience
[06:02:36] <amee2k> better than nothing i'd say
[06:03:01] <cyanid3> ill have a go
[06:03:11] <Sgt_Lemming> amee2k, even then, wiring and processing libraries make using the avr series chips a LOT easier
[06:03:17] <cyanid3> installing avr studio with the arduino libs
[06:03:51] <amee2k> i've never used the arduino programming toy thingy so i wouldn't know the difference
[06:03:55] <Sgt_Lemming> that is one of the main reasons Arduino is so successful I think
[06:04:46] <cyanid3> hairy chested programmers will never understand the advantages of an arduino lol
[06:04:53] <cyanid3> ive seen guys hating on it
[06:05:14] <cyanid3> it's just a layer on top to make a few things easier
[06:05:39] <amee2k> i think people mostly hate the gay apple hipster kind of image that the arduino has due to sparkfun/instructables and the IDE it comes with
[06:05:52] <cyanid3> perhaps
[06:05:57] <cyanid3> i dont like the ide either
[06:06:03] <amee2k> other than that, it seems to be a perfectly capable dev board for megaX8 series MCUs to me
[06:06:07] <cyanid3> and the hipster image for sure
[06:06:43] <cyanid3> but im way too old to do any nutswinging, so i just like it as a tool to enable some quick development
[06:07:56] <amee2k> :)
[06:26:02] <Jan-> hiihh
[06:26:04] <Jan-> errrr
[06:26:06] <Jan-> hihi :)
[06:26:12] <Jan-> Our lemon tree has fruited!
[06:26:17] * Jan- has four lemons
[06:26:32] <Kre10s> must the address given to boot_page_write_safe be on a page boundry?
[06:27:02] <Jan-> Sounds complicated, Kre10s :/
[06:27:13] <OndraSter> mornin Jan-
[06:27:28] <Jan-> hiho OndraSter
[06:27:33] <Jan-> ooh, CapnKernel!
[06:27:34] * Jan- salutes
[06:27:47] <Jan-> I'm making lemonade. Anyone want?
[06:28:24] <OndraSter> yeah
[06:29:09] <Kre10s> Jan-, lemon trees are great! you don't need to do much for them asides from look out for the usual plagues.
[06:29:21] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Hi there
[06:29:41] <CapnKernel> My sons and I provide a special service to our lemon tree...
[06:29:44] <Jan-> ...plagues?
[06:29:46] <Jan-> lemonitis?
[06:29:56] <Jan-> aargh
[06:30:04] <Jan-> I was going to make lemons, but now there is a cat sitting heavily on me.
[06:30:14] <Kre10s> all trees need service, lest they get sick.
[06:30:24] <Jan-> I think our lemon tree is quite confused
[06:30:28] <Jan-> it fruits at odd times of the year
[06:30:37] <Jan-> but it's OK, I got this lemon tree food stuff from ebay
[06:30:54] <Jan-> OK, this probably means these lemons cost the equiavlent of three dollars each, but hey :)
[06:30:56] <Kre10s> service/pruning/spraying/... what you do with trees to keep them healthy.
[06:31:14] <Jan-> Well our lemon tree lives indoors, so he isn't exposed to disease
[06:31:23] <Jan-> but we do have to prune him to keep him down to an indoors, bonsai sort of size
[06:31:31] <Jan-> er, IT, I mean it.
[06:32:00] <Kre10s> mago trees on the other hand... are a bitch to take care of. so large, and always crawling with something.
[06:32:03] <Jan-> Last year we got seven lemons in one batch and five in another.
[06:32:11] <Jan-> Twelve lemons in one year
[06:32:13] <Jan-> not a bad haul
[06:32:28] <Jan-> Aaaargh cat has claws
[06:32:38] <Kre10s> *mango
[06:32:45] <OndraSter> mango <3
[06:32:53] <Jan-> Mango is kinda tasteless
[06:32:59] <Jan-> but it's OK
[06:33:01] <Jan-> I prefer pineapple
[06:33:05] <impulze> i prefer steak
[06:33:12] <Kre10s> Jan-, you've never tasted my mangos
[06:33:30] <Jan-> what do you do to them
[06:33:31] <impulze> this is getting weird, why would i want to taste your mangos?
[06:33:35] <amee2k> Jan-: last night i had another idea how to go about your camera-friendly light project
[06:33:41] <Jan-> oh yeah?
[06:33:44] * Jan- inclines an ear
[06:33:46] <RikusW> cyanid3: look into pin change interrupt
[06:33:58] <amee2k> what is calling the artifacts is brightness changes during the shutter action, right?
[06:34:36] <Jan-> Well, strictly speaking during the readout period of the CMOS image sensor, but you get the idea.
[06:34:51] <amee2k> so if you have a purely analog LED driver that takes a voltage signal to control the brightness
[06:34:57] <Jan-> mmhmm
[06:35:09] <amee2k> i'd say all you'd need is a sample-and-hold circuit in the brightness control line
[06:35:27] <RikusW> Jan-: then you got a bad batch of mango's...
[06:35:35] <amee2k> am i making any sense here?
[06:35:35] <RikusW> usually quite tasty
[06:35:55] <CapnKernel> I think we probably get about 200 lemons a season off our lemon.
[06:36:09] <CapnKernel> *lemon tree
[06:36:25] <impulze> inception, put a lemon in your lemon!
[06:36:43] * RikusW just finished soldering his pcb
[06:37:03] <Jan-> well...
[06:37:15] <Jan-> there is one approach to the algorithm of it that works as a sample and hold device, almost
[06:37:35] <Jan-> it depends how much you want it to be a programmable per-frame exposure device, and how much you want to say simulate the flash of a machine gun or whatever
[06:38:15] <Jan-> if you want to simulate gunfire you could get quite into calculating the actual temporal location of the flash, how much of the light would illuminate any one frame, etc, and then have the lighting device simulate that by spreading that much light over a whole frame.
[06:38:27] <amee2k> well, my idea was that using a dedicated sample and hold IC would make your digital controls much simpler
[06:38:28] <Jan-> This was suggested after someone watched "Starship Troopers" which has lots of gunfire in it.
[06:38:43] <Jan-> the interaction between the automatic firearms and the camera are quite complex.
[06:38:56] * CapnKernel frowns. "This stuff is why CG was invented"
[06:39:10] <Jan-> In the case of gunfire this is there to back up CG
[06:39:15] <amee2k> it would also work with any source that can produce a suitable brightness control output regardless of the signal source
[06:39:20] <Jan-> one thing CG can't really do very well is add light to complex real surfaces.
[06:39:31] <CapnKernel> Yeah, reflections off things, eh?
[06:39:52] <Jan-> We often do CG muzzle flash on guns, but the interactive lighting is tough.
[06:39:52] <Sgt_Lemming> ah, ello CapnKernel
[06:40:03] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming: salute the Capn!
[06:40:10] <amee2k> at the expense of per-frame control though, so you may get aliasing issues
[06:40:20] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, no, because captain is not always an officer rank
[06:40:22] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming: Hi there
[06:40:30] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Don't do that
[06:40:34] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming: yes it is!
[06:40:40] <Sgt_Lemming> no, it's not
[06:40:44] <Jan-> Is too!
[06:40:57] <CapnKernel> Don't salute me, as it will tell the snipers who to pick off first.
[06:41:03] <Jan-> Oh, OK.
[06:41:09] <amee2k> Jan-: mmh, i think i know what you mean... in some cheap productions automatic firing looks like bursts from the muzzle flash even though ejecting casings and sound effects clearly indicate sustained firing
[06:41:13] <Jan-> Hey, that means they won't be shooting at me!
[06:41:15] * Jan- salutes like mad
[06:41:31] <CapnKernel> Yet.
[06:42:01] <Jan-> amee2k: there's a moment in starship troopers where someone fires a sustained burst, with smoke and casings and vibration and stuff, and the camera misses every single one except the last flash.
[06:42:11] <Jan-> there's only one "bang"
[06:42:17] <amee2k> yeah
[06:42:25] <Jan-> this is of course the other issue
[06:42:46] <Jan-> if you have a story reason you need to see someone fire a single round, you either do 103 takes until you get a flash you see (using up expensive movie blank ammo) or you use our light box :)
[06:43:05] <Jan-> and that's relevant regardless of rolling shutter issues
[06:43:25] <amee2k> or use a custom blank with a huge load so you get a long enough muzzle flash :P
[06:43:36] <Jan-> they do use custom blanks
[06:43:42] <Jan-> but they still don't last very long
[06:43:47] <Jan-> movie blanks are horrendously expensive
[06:44:25] <amee2k> hmm i see
[06:44:41] <CapnKernel> Costs money to take out all that depleted uranium, you see...
[06:44:48] <Jan-> they're usually handmade
[06:45:01] <amee2k> there isn't a whole lot of demand for them i suppose
[06:45:12] <amee2k> well, unless michael gay is making another movie :P
[06:45:20] <Jan-> they're also even less safe than normal blanks
[06:45:31] <Jan-> because they have to be huge loads with lots of magnesium to make a visible flash
[06:45:34] <amee2k> blanks aren't safe :P
[06:45:44] <Jan-> which in turn gunks up the inside of the gun with magnesium ash
[06:45:52] <amee2k> they're live ammunition, which isn't safe by definition
[06:46:05] <Jan-> plus they have to modify the gun so it will repeat reliably with the lower pressure
[06:46:14] <Jan-> and even then they aren't very reliable
[06:46:25] <Jan-> blank firing guns on movie sets are a pain in the ass.
[06:46:38] <amee2k> hmm i don't remember the name but some popular actor dude got shot with a blank because there was some gunk in the barrel that got shot out
[06:46:45] <Jan-> Brandon Lee
[06:46:50] <Jan-> while shooting "The Crow"
[06:46:56] <amee2k> yeah, i think that one
[06:47:12] <Jan-> they did a scene where they had to show someone loading the gun, and instead of buying (expensive) dummy rounds, they emptied the propellant out of real ones.
[06:47:22] <Jan-> But they didn't strike the primers.
[06:47:43] <Jan-> And the primer had just enough oomph to move the round out of the casing and into the barrel.
[06:47:50] <amee2k> lol
[06:47:57] <amee2k> that is quite fail
[06:48:13] <Jan-> Later when they reloaded the same weapon with full power movie blanks, they had dismissed their armorer because they didn't want to pay his overtime.
[06:48:22] <Jan-> So nobody checked the barrel was blocked.
[06:48:57] <Jan-> Massive, catastrophic safety fail which is still used as an example of how not to do it on movie safety courses.
[06:49:18] <amee2k> no shit
[06:49:29] <amee2k> cheap jerks like that give gun enthusiasts a bad name >_<
[06:49:37] <Jan-> quite
[06:50:04] <amee2k> (not that i am one, but i still don't like the effect)
[06:50:18] <Jan-> oh, I'm one :)
[06:50:21] * Jan- field-strips her M-16
[06:50:26] <Jan-> *clink* *snikt*
[06:50:26] <amee2k> neat
[06:50:51] <Jan-> Anyway that's why we prefer the two As: Airsoft and After Effects
[06:50:52] <Jan-> :)
[06:51:05] <amee2k> i used to have a blank gun but i sold it a few years ago
[06:51:23] <amee2k> blank guns that are not conversions are pretty shit quality here though
[06:51:44] <amee2k> german firearm laws are rather cumbersome or i'd probably have a live one
[06:52:04] <Jan-> well they're not cumbersome here
[06:52:05] <Jan-> just crap
[06:52:09] <Jan-> "you can't have any"
[06:52:28] * Jan- kicks a tin can, disconsolately
[06:52:38] <Jan-> I wouldn't be allowed, anyway, I guess :)
[06:53:38] <amee2k> unless you have a hunting license or something, getting one here is pretty ass too because you need to prove a necessity for having one
[06:54:10] <Jan-> there *are* exceptions here because clearly there are places that have military style weapons for film and TV work
[06:54:14] <Jan-> but god knows what the procedure is
[06:54:15] <amee2k> and requests solely on the grounds of home defense are not treated as a shall-issue
[06:54:32] <Jan-> That's weird though
[06:54:41] <amee2k> what is?
[06:55:01] <Jan-> Much as Germans are quite boring and studious, I'd have thought they'd be quite happy about neat, surgical ways of dispatching the bad guys :)
[06:56:01] <amee2k> well, they are. there are quite a few well known gun manufacturers in germany and german-speaking countries. take H&K for an example
[06:56:17] <amee2k> they're just not happy about everyone having access to it
[06:56:31] <amee2k> which i find is a particularly german approach to the situation
[06:57:10] <Jan-> well I guess
[06:57:24] <Jan-> I can't really imagine a less likely population of people to mistreat guns than Germans.
[06:57:27] <Jan-> Germans follow rules.
[06:57:36] <Jan-> (am I being unfair?)
[06:57:36] <amee2k> germany is a self-proclaimedly civilized country where there should be no need for people to have to defend themselves
[06:57:47] <amee2k> not really
[06:58:02] <Jan-> although I should say
[06:58:49] <Jan-> my only experience of germans was living with one for two years at college (boring, studious, followed rules), working with one for five years (boring, studious, followed rules) and the reports of my friend Katie who is in the RAF and spent time in Germany, and said everyone was boring and studious and followed the rules.
[06:58:54] <amee2k> also "if you didn't do anything wrong you don't have to hide anything" is another particularly german and childishly wrong attitude
[06:59:05] <OndraSter> do you have German canibals? :P
[06:59:21] <Steffanx> Here you are not even allowed to own something that LOOKS like a gun
[06:59:24] <Jan-> Oh and also my friend Nick who visited his sister in Frankfurt for two weeks and ended up nearly chewing out his own tongue at how boring it was.
[06:59:28] <Steffanx> Even when it's purple, green or yellow
[06:59:41] <OndraSter> Steffanx, what country?
[06:59:45] <Steffanx> The Netherlands
[06:59:45] <amee2k> currently this is the 6th or 7th time they're trying to push forward for a german "internet filter" again
[06:59:49] <OndraSter> oh
[07:00:02] <Jan-> Apparently even Germans think Frankfurt is boring, which says that Frankfurt must be really super boring.
[07:00:37] <amee2k> Jan-: well, considering how easy it is to get into trouble here, i'd say that assessment is fairly accurate
[07:00:44] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Have you heard the one about the shortest book in the world?
[07:00:49] <Jan-> where are you exactly, amee2k?
[07:00:51] <Jan-> CapnKernel: No.
[07:01:05] <amee2k> (that germans are generally boring and follow rules)
[07:01:21] <amee2k> Jan-: i grew up in munich, now living just on the german-austrian border near salzburg
[07:01:27] <CapnKernel> "400 Years of the Best of German Humour"
[07:01:28] <Jan-> the problem is that being boring and following rules seems to work
[07:01:43] <Jan-> germany is currently more or less the only western country that isn't economically screwed right now
[07:01:49] <Steffanx> Sure?
[07:01:51] <Jan-> and back in ww2 they nearly took over the WORLD!
[07:01:52] <amee2k> it works in the same sense as the chinese government works i'd say
[07:01:56] * Jan- waves her arms
[07:01:59] <Jan-> Germans are a bit scary :/
[07:02:03] * Jan- edges away from amee2k
[07:02:13] <Steffanx> Jan-, you want to say you are not scary?
[07:02:13] <amee2k> lol
[07:02:18] <Jan-> I am not scary!
[07:02:20] <Jan-> I'm nice!
[07:02:24] <CapnKernel> I told that joke to my German friend. He didn't think it was funny. Well he wouldn't, would he!
[07:02:32] <Steffanx> You wave you arms all the time, make weird sounds ..
[07:02:42] * CapnKernel asserts that Jan is very scary indeed
[07:02:44] <Jan-> Oh that's just me being expressive.
[07:02:47] <CapnKernel> And she emits fluids
[07:02:49] <Steffanx> Scary :P
[07:03:03] <Jan-> Only when I have a cold!
[07:03:11] <CapnKernel> So you say.
[07:03:19] <Jan-> I bet you emit fluids :/
[07:03:37] <Jan-> See you scandinavian types
[07:03:38] <CapnKernel> Today I learned the Chinese for "drool".
[07:03:40] <Jan-> so dull
[07:03:48] <CapnKernel> It's literally, "flow mouth water"
[07:04:11] <amee2k> Jan-: well germany is the country of engineers and lawmaking is pretty much an engineering discipline here too, if you get my drift
[07:04:44] <CapnKernel> We're surfing awful close to Godwin's law here folks
[07:04:55] <amee2k> all this restrictive gun law and internet filtering shit is really just a fear tinkle of the traumatized generation imo
[07:04:58] <Jan-> rindflischetiketeirunsuberwachungsaufgabenubertrangungsgesetz?
[07:05:07] * Jan- takes a bow
[07:05:28] <CapnKernel> Jan: I know what to give you for Christmas - a space bar.
[07:05:53] <Kre10s> looks like legal german noun to me...
[07:06:00] <amee2k> pretty much along the same lines as what went downhill in the GDR/DDR
[07:07:18] <amee2k> something along the lines of "beef labeling supervisory task transfer regulations"
[07:07:54] <amee2k> since it doesn't really mean anything anyway, i don't think you can translate it
[07:08:04] <Jan-> I have very little idea what it means after "beef labelling"
[07:08:15] <Jan-> German is a wonderful language
[07:08:25] <Jan-> it's just like being hit in the ear with a mallet
[07:08:33] <Kre10s> so... must the address given to boot_page_write_safe be on a page boundry?
[07:08:43] <amee2k> with english style spacing, it would read "rindflisch etiketeiruns uberwachungs aufgaben ubertrangungs gesetz"
[07:08:44] <Kre10s> seems like it should... but im not sure.
[07:08:48] <amee2k> that probably makes it easier to parse
[07:08:52] <Jan-> yers
[07:09:04] <Jan-> or as you might say, Deutschisteinewunderbaresprache.
[07:09:10] <amee2k> lol
[07:09:13] <amee2k> yeah
[07:09:32] <Jan-> errr
[07:09:48] <Jan-> donauddampfschiffgeratechefelektrikergewerschaftkonferenz?
[07:09:51] <amee2k> that you can run words together like that is kind of a gramatical backbirth
[07:10:13] * Jan- loves it :)
[07:11:06] <amee2k> "danube steam shipping equipment chief electrician's union conference"
[07:11:28] <amee2k> or something like that
[07:12:34] <amee2k> methinks words like that are really just a pronouncable UUID and have no further meaning as such
[07:13:03] <raek> well, spaces don't exist on the phonetic layer anyway, so the rules for how to group together letters as words is pretty arbitrary anyway
[07:13:24] <amee2k> the problem isn't the phonetics
[07:13:31] <OndraSter> problem is reading it on paper
[07:13:36] <amee2k> its that words that cover two lines are a bitch to parse :P
[07:14:10] <OndraSter> we have this czech "joke" about germans connecting words
[07:14:16] <OndraSter> we call "podvodnik" to thief
[07:14:19] <raek> people tend to avoid such words naturally
[07:14:20] <OndraSter> and pod = unter
[07:14:23] <OndraSter> vodnik = wasserman :D
[07:14:32] <OndraSter> unterwasserman!
[07:14:43] <OndraSter> NATÃœRLICH!
[07:14:49] <OndraSter> wassup with " btw
[07:15:00] <OndraSter> I know, we have ˇ and ' but still...
[07:15:12] <amee2k> raek: well, students of the engineering school of law don't
[07:15:19] <raek> just like you tend to limit the number of consecutive "___ of the ___ of the ___ of the ___" to something manageable
[07:15:25] <raek> hehe
[07:16:08] <amee2k> i hope i phrased that sufficiently delicately :P
[07:18:58] <CapnKernel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights
[07:19:11] <amee2k> yeah, thats a classic :P
[07:21:05] <CapnKernel> "fulfilled mit special electronische equippment."
[07:27:56] <Jan-> do I want "Soshine" brand batteries, or Sanyo Eneloop ones?
[07:28:42] <Jan-> hang on, I mistook that
[07:28:47] <Jan-> "gerate" is a machine for doing something
[07:28:51] <Jan-> what's a company
[07:34:16] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Two
[07:34:27] <Jan-> two whats
[07:34:37] <CapnKernel> "Two's company, three's a crowd"
[07:34:43] <Jan-> *facepalm*
[07:34:45] <CapnKernel> (Gotcha)
[07:34:56] * Jan- lights CapnKernel on fire
[07:35:22] <CapnKernel> That's the best offer I've had all day. No heater here. About to dive into bed for the express purpose of getting warm.
[07:35:33] <Jan-> where are you, capn?
[07:39:49] <OndraSter> I want to design something like this
[07:39:49] <OndraSter> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Thinking_machines_cm2.jpg
[07:40:01] <OndraSter> screw FPGAs... classic 74 logic ftw!
[07:45:47] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Shenzhen, China.
[07:46:31] <Jan-> Ooh.
[07:46:32] * Jan- winces
[07:46:37] <Jan-> how long d'you have to stay there
[07:47:11] <Jan-> (and where the hell did you thin, Shenzen in, say, Sweden?)
[07:47:48] <Jan-> god I hate open office
[07:47:51] <Jan-> it's so...
[07:47:53] <Jan-> ...undiscoverable
[07:48:28] <Jan-> I can create a new template, I can copy templates from one document toanother, I can delete, edit, export, import and manage templates, I can edit templates and merge templates
[07:48:42] <Steffanx> Nooo, OOo is great
[07:48:43] <Jan-> but how in the name of ZEUS'S THUNDERING BUTTHOLE do I actually USE one on the document?
[07:48:44] <Steffanx> *not*
[07:51:00] <ureif> Shenzen! lucky dog. Take pics of the electronics market for us.
[07:51:45] <Jan-> that or *eat* dog
[07:52:15] <ureif> The food there is roughly a billion (conservative estimate) times better than the food in Britain.
[07:52:32] <Jan-> I bet they can't make proper fish n chips
[07:52:46] <OndraSter> dog'n'chips
[07:52:48] <ureif> my point exactly.
[07:52:59] <pc_magas> The if fish and chips ios rancid then all come to greece in order to eat mousaka and souvlaki
[07:53:01] <pc_magas> ;)
[07:53:05] <pc_magas> is*
[07:53:18] <pc_magas> With lotsd of tsatziki....
[07:55:46] <Jan-> food shouldn't have Zs in it
[07:56:15] <pc_magas> Z's or E's in it?
[08:04:15] <Jan-> someone's asked me what sort of CPU would be equivalent in power to an AVR
[08:04:22] <Jan-> I'm guessing something like a Z80?
[08:05:08] <ureif> I don't think so. z80 was 1MHz and no peripherals.
[08:05:48] <Jan-> sure
[08:05:51] <Jan-> but otherwise...
[08:06:13] <Tom_itx> hi abcminiuser
[08:06:20] <Jan-> oh hey tom
[08:06:34] <Jan-> I was just asking what sort of CPU might an AVR be comparable to, in terms of sheer computing ability
[08:06:40] <Jan-> I was thinking it's sort of like a fast Z80
[08:06:47] <Jan-> (someone asked me)
[08:07:07] <ureif> PIC
[08:12:29] <Tom_itx> catching up on lemons and mangos
[08:12:47] <Tom_itx> all guns are loaded and if you look down the barrel of one and pull the trigger, you deserve it
[08:14:04] <amee2k> < Jan-> but how in the name of ZEUS'S THUNDERING BUTTHOLE [...] << /me <3
[08:16:06] <CapnKernel> Jan: Re " I bet they can't make proper fish n chips", I wrote this: http://capn.blogspot.com/2012/01/cravings.html
[08:17:07] <CapnKernel> ureif: A friend of mine says "the driving force behind the expansion of the British Empire was a despierate quest to find decent food"
[08:17:43] <CapnKernel> Personally, I find the food here totally shit. I found the food in Dalian (that's norhern China, re here which is deep South) much easier to take.
[08:18:07] <CapnKernel> There's a dog restaurant literally downstairs.
[08:18:14] <ureif> the food is not good or the flavours are too alien ?
[08:18:34] <amee2k> Jan-: i'm not entirely sure you can compare its processing abilities to any microcomputer or desktop CPUs
[08:18:44] <CapnKernel> With Korean writing on the window, although I bet no Koreans have *ever* been in it or near it. (Deep low-rent district here)
[08:18:53] <Tom_itx> amee2k, nope not really
[08:19:17] <Tom_itx> one is a cpu and the other is a mcu
[08:19:17] <CapnKernel> In the four months I've lived at this particular apartment, I've not seen a westerner within a city block.
[08:19:26] <amee2k> a reasonable approximation would be an early IBM PC imo... it is 16 bit but lower instruction throughput and less memory
[08:20:10] <amee2k> but it is still a very general ballpark at best and for most applications one or the other will clearly win
[08:20:52] <CapnKernel> ureif: Re "Take pics of the electronics market for us.", I did: http://hackvana.blogspot.com/2011/09/suppliers-look-inside-component-markets.html
[08:21:20] <ureif> I will take a vacation in Shenzen someday.
[08:21:28] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, those reels on the 3rd photo <3
[08:21:35] <OndraSter> that's faptastic
[08:22:06] <CapnKernel> ureif: Re "the food is not good or the flavours are too alien ?" it's not that the flavours are too alien
[08:22:30] <CapnKernel> My wife is Chinese, and she cooks the most incredible food, both Chinese and Western.
[08:22:49] <CapnKernel> Her cooking is my sole reason to return to Australia, where my family lives.
[08:23:07] <OndraSter> australia... I want to move there!
[08:23:10] <OndraSter> one day
[08:23:16] <OndraSter> like.. ASAP
[08:23:18] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: WE KNOW :-)
[08:23:44] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: You want reels? I can get you whatever you want. Let's take this offline.
[08:23:56] <OndraSter> nah
[08:24:00] <OndraSter> I need like 5 resistors lol
[08:24:05] <OndraSter> per value
[08:24:35] <ureif> OndraSter: why australia ? I hear its hotter there than a jackal's armpit in a blast furnace.
[08:24:50] <OndraSter> don't care
[08:24:53] <CapnKernel> Everything you know about electronics is different here, totally alien-type different, apart from the part where it uses electrons.
[08:24:56] <OndraSter> now it is like -10C here
[08:25:13] <OndraSter> it is supposed to be down to -40C tonight :o)
[08:25:20] <OndraSter> I know where I am NOT gonna be tonight
[08:25:22] <CapnKernel> -10C you can just put on more clothes, or like I just did, hop into bed for a bit
[08:25:22] <OndraSter> outside!
[08:25:27] <Tom_itx> 16f here
[08:25:34] <CapnKernel> But my city oft reaches 45C outside in the summer, which is right now.
[08:25:40] <OndraSter> -10C >> time to zip up second layer only :D
[08:25:58] <OndraSter> = jacket
[08:26:10] * ureif didn't know Tom_itx was that young.
[08:26:10] <abcminiuser> Hey Tom_itx
[08:26:35] <abcminiuser> Isn't Tom_itx like 300 years old or something?
[08:26:44] <Tom_itx> oh dean, i tested on avrdude the other day
[08:26:49] <OndraSter> ey Dean
[08:29:27] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[08:29:31] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, and?
[08:29:40] <Tom_itx> all is good
[08:31:59] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, i submitted a support request on atmel.com
[08:32:21] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, neat, what was the question about again?
[08:32:27] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, see that post on avrfreaks.net?
[08:32:42] <dirty_d> twi on xmega
[08:32:52] <dirty_d> the wif flag not being set after writing a read address to ADDR
[08:33:09] <dirty_d> i think its just something that wasnt clear in the manual
[08:33:13] <dirty_d> i dont think its supposed to be set
[08:33:37] <abcminiuser> Ah
[08:33:46] <dirty_d> but the manual doesnt make that distinction in the ADDR register section
[08:33:52] <abcminiuser> Okies, will take a look on Monday, assuming it was assigned to me
[08:34:01] <dirty_d> it just says WIF is set when addr has been transmitted
[08:34:23] <dirty_d> im still having troubles though
[08:34:46] <dirty_d> on mega you have to wait for stop conditions / nack etc to be transmitted
[08:34:54] <dirty_d> i dont see anything about that in the manual for xmega
[08:37:34] <Jan-> I want to go to Australia too
[08:37:40] <Jan-> But the deadly creatures :/
[08:38:21] <Jan-> You can't take three paces in Australia without flipping over a rock, out from under which something nightmarish will lunge with poison-dripping fangs
[08:38:33] <dirty_d> lol
[08:38:40] <Jan-> and seize you by the ankle, and inject enough high-weight neurotoxins to drop a horse
[08:38:59] <dirty_d> they have ants the size of june bugs
[08:39:02] <Jan-> which is pretty stupid when you consider the funnel-web spider (motto: I KILL YOU) eats flies.
[08:39:09] <Steffanx> You ARE scary Jan-
[08:39:59] <Jan-> ...why's that?>
[08:40:49] <Jan-> Anyway you know where Ridley Scott got the idea for the Alien movie?
[08:40:53] <Jan-> He checked out someone's back yard in Australia :/
[08:40:58] <CapnKernel> We have crustaceans with 214 chromosomes, and ants with just one.
[08:41:08] <Jan-> You have poison SHELLS
[08:41:12] <Jan-> I mean SEASHELLS, that you find on the BEACH.
[08:41:21] <Jan-> Not that are just toxic, but they actively GO for you!
[08:41:52] <CapnKernel> Yeah, they go spear-fishing, and shoot toxin laden razor sharp projectiles of bone at you
[08:41:58] <Jan-> I know!
[08:42:11] <Jan-> It's like a fricken HORROR MOVIE!
[08:42:31] <CapnKernel> And then there's the drop-bears.
[08:42:54] <Steffanx> Alien.. the best movie ever :)
[08:43:15] <Jan-> I mean JUST in the water
[08:43:30] <dirty_d> Steffanx, seen the trailer for prometheus?
[08:43:42] <Steffanx> Nop
[08:43:50] <dirty_d> Steffanx, basically a prequil to alien
[08:44:00] <dirty_d> except centered on the space jockeys
[08:44:04] <Jan-> cone shells, box jellyfish, groupers, sharks, portugese man-o-war jellyfish, stonefish
[08:44:04] * Steffanx goes to youtube
[08:44:13] <Jan-> posion CORAL ffs
[08:44:24] <Jan-> why does anyone ever go in the sea in australia?!
[08:45:40] <Steffanx> Why you go in the sea in England?
[08:45:52] <amee2k> who said she does? :P
[08:45:53] <Jan-> because you like frostbite? I don't know, I don't go in the sea :)
[08:46:11] <Steffanx> Poor you
[08:46:33] <amee2k> how about a nice warm drysuit?
[08:46:39] <amee2k> swimming season all year long \o/
[08:46:47] <ureif> Why would you go to the sea in England ? Its no fun swimming in the rain.
[08:46:50] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Enjoy your stony beaches....
[08:46:55] <Jan-> oh we have sand
[08:46:58] <Jan-> on the atlantic coast
[08:47:07] <Steffanx> And blue water?
[08:47:19] <Jan-> well, probably not as blue as australia
[08:47:30] <CapnKernel> Water colour is largely influenced by sky colour. Which in England equals grey.
[08:47:33] <Jan-> but here's the thing, in australia you can't go in the water anyway because you'll DIE
[08:47:42] <Jan-> in excruciating, shrieking agony
[08:47:53] <Steffanx> If you say so
[08:47:58] <CapnKernel> There's a reason the undersides of English military aircraft are painted grey.
[08:48:35] <CapnKernel> Jan-: Statistically highly unlikely, yet in a delicious sense of cosmic irony, if it's going to happen to anyone, it would probably happen to you.
[08:48:46] <CapnKernel> I've read all about these weak English people :-)
[08:48:47] <Jan-> why do you say that
[08:48:51] * CapnKernel ducks, runs.
[08:48:53] <Jan-> I wouldn't go anywhere NEAR the coast in Australia
[08:48:56] <amee2k> i want a red and white F-15 and go to comicon
[08:49:07] <Jan-> CapnKernel: I was born in the US, so neener
[08:50:36] <Jan-> "There is no antivenom for a cone snail sting, and treatment is limited to merely keeping victims alive until the toxins wear off"
[08:50:39] <Jan-> fer chrissake
[08:51:10] <amee2k> well, steel toe drysuit then ;)
[08:51:21] <Jan-> Or "don't go in the water"
[08:51:31] <amee2k> booring
[08:51:36] <Jan-> but even then the spiders, snakes, etc will get you
[08:55:57] <Jan-> CapnKernel: seriously, how do they stop kids just being picked off right left and centre by Australian fauna?
[08:58:41] * Jan- puts a horrible toxic creatures in CapnKernel's boots
[08:58:43] <CapnKernel> Heehee, you'll never know
[08:58:57] <Jan-> I mean in the UK, kids muck about in the back yard
[08:59:04] <Jan-> run around, fall over in the bushes
[08:59:08] <Jan-> get muddy
[08:59:09] <Jan-> etc
[08:59:14] <Jan-> but if you did that in australia you'd just die.
[08:59:20] <OndraSter> heh
[08:59:24] <Jan-> twitching, in agony
[08:59:29] <Jan-> turning purple
[08:59:39] <OndraSter> don't break my ilusions about australia!
[09:00:10] * CapnKernel points out that earlier Jan- was claiming she wasn't scary, yet she's just put a critter in my book.
[09:00:15] <CapnKernel> *boot
[09:00:28] <Jan-> you're australian, the venom probably doesn't work on you :/
[09:00:48] <Jan-> herd immunity and all that
[09:01:07] <Jan-> but serously - you wouldn't dare let your kids play outside.
[09:01:12] <OndraSter> xD
[09:01:13] <Jan-> and that's terrible
[09:01:29] <OndraSter> did I mention that I somewhat... hate spiders
[09:01:31] <OndraSter> and snakes?
[09:01:57] <Jan-> I'm OK with snakes
[09:02:00] <Jan-> spiders, mmmhhh
[09:02:10] <Jan-> I have a particularly basic and horrible fear of aquatic nasties, though
[09:02:17] <Jan-> the very idea of a cone shell makes my skin crawl
[09:02:36] <Jan-> and more or less all the creatures in the sea off Australia will either eat you or sting you.
[09:04:11] <Jan-> CapnKernel: do they do critter-proofing lessons in schools?
[09:05:16] <amee2k> i wish they had common sense lessons in school
[09:05:30] <OndraSter> you can't teach common sense
[09:05:35] <OndraSter> you can only lose common sense in schools and daily lif
[09:05:35] <OndraSter> e
[09:06:03] <amee2k> well, you can not suppress it with TV and potato chips
[09:06:18] <Sgt_Lemming> Ceramic Resonators Vs Crystal Oscillators? K go
[09:06:19] <amee2k> but thats not going to happen, really
[09:06:31] <amee2k> so there needs to be a new stimulation for it
[09:07:28] <OndraSter> Sgt_Lemming, didn't I ask the same thing yesterday evening? :)
[09:08:03] <Jan-> As the Scorpion fish, no siren will be necessary on your way to hospital.
[09:08:09] <Jan-> aaaaaaaaaAAAA
[09:08:11] <Sgt_Lemming> didn't see it OndraSter
[09:08:13] * Jan- is never going to australia
[09:08:20] <OndraSter> Jan-, don't break my illusion!
[09:08:28] <amee2k> leaves more of it for us :P
[09:08:37] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, then you will miss out on a lot of awesome
[09:08:48] <amee2k> they should have classes on "sense for adventure" in schools to *nod*
[09:09:08] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming: where ar eyou from
[09:09:13] <Sgt_Lemming> guess :-P
[09:09:16] <amee2k> that would go towards solving the teletubbies and potato chips problem too
[09:10:13] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming: HOW are you still ALIVE
[09:10:27] <amee2k> how about common sense?
[09:10:30] <Sgt_Lemming> because australia is not as dangerous as a lot of people like to make out
[09:10:40] <Jan-> Yes it is: http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm
[09:10:41] <Jan-> LOOK
[09:10:55] <amee2k> Jan-: i mean, do they have cars where you live?
[09:11:04] <amee2k> how come people don't get overrun all the time
[09:11:19] <Jan-> because humans drive cars and humans don't make a living out of killing people
[09:11:22] <amee2k> and i hear the UK has rapists and child molestors too
[09:11:50] <amee2k> i hope i never have to go to the UK >_<
[09:12:04] <amee2k> i want to have my asshole intact, kthxbai
[09:12:41] <Jan-> there are not ass bandits waiting under every unturned stone though
[09:12:48] <Jan-> they don't attack you everytime you go in the water
[09:13:02] <amee2k> :P
[09:13:05] <Jan-> Phil feels the same way
[09:13:07] <Sgt_Lemming> jan, the number of people killed by the creatures on that page in the last ten years... I can count on one hand
[09:13:16] <Jan-> He went to Sydney for the 2000 olympics
[09:13:18] <Jan-> to work
[09:13:27] <Jan-> and on weekends and off days they'd go to the beach
[09:13:31] <Jan-> and he NEVER went in the water.
[09:13:34] <Sgt_Lemming> Australia has a very VERY good medical system, and those creatures are very rare
[09:13:46] <Jan-> Obviously this made him a "whingeing pom" but that's what they say any time you complain about anything.
[09:13:56] <Jan-> Upside: he's still alive.
[09:14:18] <Jan-> they're not rare
[09:14:20] <Jan-> they're common
[09:14:35] <Sgt_Lemming> no, they are not
[09:14:50] <Sgt_Lemming> saltwater crocodiles inhabit a fairly small area of the country
[09:15:04] <amee2k> Jan-: i heard last year they have a shark in uk waters too 0.0
[09:15:06] <Sgt_Lemming> irukandji are not specific to australia
[09:15:08] <Jan-> cone shells inhabit a fairly small area of the world
[09:15:15] * Jan- resolves never to go to that part of the world
[09:15:18] <amee2k> i don't want to end as fish food
[09:15:19] <Sgt_Lemming> I've lived here 18 years and never seen them
[09:15:22] <Jan-> it's cruel. they have the most beautiful beaches
[09:15:24] * amee2k panics aptly
[09:15:30] <Jan-> and you can't even go in the water
[09:15:38] <Jan-> without fear of being bitten by something from your nightmares
[09:15:38] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, bullshit
[09:15:41] * amee2k runs off to australia
[09:15:49] <Sgt_Lemming> utter and complete fucking uninformed bullshit
[09:16:05] <Jan-> oh do the cone shells carry locator beacons or something?
[09:16:11] <Sgt_Lemming> no
[09:16:12] <Jan-> becuase they congregate in the shallows, EXACTLY where people go
[09:16:19] <Jan-> so do stonefish
[09:16:41] <Jan-> and even if you wear jelly shoes in the water, the stonefish can penetrate through them and get you anyway. That's a scary creatures.
[09:17:01] <amee2k> Jan-: you want a steel sole drysuit and you know it
[09:17:04] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, seriously, they are rare as fuck
[09:17:25] <Jan-> drysuit, more like body armor
[09:17:29] <amee2k> http://www.vikingdiving.com/public/media/autoimg/2377_400_750.jpg << ready to go on vacation in the UK now \o/
[09:17:39] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming that doesn't help much if you happen to be the one who stands on one and loses your fricken LEG
[09:17:55] <Jan-> australians always play down the dangers
[09:17:58] <Sgt_Lemming> jan, there are 30 recorded fatalitys in the entire world from cone shells ever
[09:18:08] <Sgt_Lemming> no, everyone else plays up the danger
[09:18:16] <amee2k> Jan-: if you get run over by a drunk driver in the UK, it doesn't matter that millions of people cross the road safely every day
[09:18:25] <Jan-> "Oh, Uncle Noel was bitten by a Great Queensland Nut Muncher, but it's OK because he's off the breathing machine and they've discovered he can communicate with eyeblinks."
[09:18:34] <Jan-> And that's not a fatality.
[09:18:37] <Jan-> Aaaaaaaaaaargh
[09:18:46] <amee2k> I DON'T WANT TO GET RUN OVER BY A CAR ON MY UK VISIT PLZ HELP ME!!!111
[09:19:08] * amee2k puts on a hi vis jumpsuit with reflective stripes
[09:19:09] <Jan-> amee2k, I can't see pics, remember
[09:19:34] <Jan-> but I get the idea :)
[09:19:41] <amee2k> Jan-: its a catalog pic of a drysuit for commercial divers :P
[09:19:59] <Jan-> I know, I know
[09:20:14] <Jan-> Sgt_Lemming: seriously, they must teach kids this stuff
[09:21:01] <Sgt_Lemming> jan, whatever, every time you bring up a topic you are entirely unwilling to listen to reason. I refuse to get dragged further into this argument with someone as pig headed and inflexible as yourself
[09:21:15] <Jan-> WHAT'S THAT CRAWLING UP YOUR ARM!
[09:22:02] <Jan-> I mean it says it on that site. "Northern and North-Eastern Australia have some of the most beautiful beaches in the world and are most of the time completely deserted? The reason is Australia has many dangerous animals inhabiting the land."
[09:22:52] <OndraSter> WHAT'S THAT CRAWLING UP YOUR AVR!
[09:22:53] <inflex> really, in AU, it's more the tropical diseases that'll mess you up
[09:22:59] <Jan-> OH yes
[09:23:01] <inflex> dengue, ross-river-fever
[09:23:08] <inflex> but the animals, far far less so
[09:23:09] <Jan-> There was a dengue fever epidemic there in the early 2000s
[09:23:12] <Jan-> ....yes that
[09:23:19] <inflex> and the early 1990's
[09:23:29] <Jan-> if there was a dengue epidemic in the UK, people would be hanging off the sides of cross-channel ferries to get out of the country
[09:23:31] <inflex> just don't come over here in Summer, it's that easy.
[09:23:34] <Jan-> in Australia, it's like, "meh"
[09:23:39] <amee2k> mmh, i read the other day that someone who lived in a large city suffered from burnout syndrome
[09:23:58] <amee2k> why do people in the UK still go anywhere near large cities
[09:24:42] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming: She got you good.
[09:24:51] <CapnKernel> I haven't seen a troll that successful since..
[09:24:52] <Sgt_Lemming> eh?
[09:24:52] <CapnKernel> since ...
[09:25:00] <CapnKernel> Jan- trolled you good, buddy
[09:25:11] <CapnKernel> ... since ziph trolled me the other night :-)
[09:25:18] * CapnKernel is still smarting from the experience
[09:25:30] <amee2k> i think my countertroll isn't /that/ bad, no?
[09:25:33] <ziph> I trolled you?
[09:25:53] <CapnKernel> Er, no, nothing to see, move on along!
[09:26:01] <Jan-> I'm not trolling
[09:26:03] <Jan-> I'm scared :/
[09:26:07] <amee2k> on IRC, everyone is trolling if it is convenient for the situation
[09:26:14] <amee2k> ask the people in #ubuntu. they know.
[09:26:27] <OndraSter> haha
[09:26:43] <CapnKernel> amee2k: Yes good countertroll, but the problem is, she didn't take the base, because as Sgt_Lemming put it, if there's one thing Jan- doesn't do, it's engage in rational debate.
[09:26:46] <amee2k> Jan-: do you maintain adequate safety distance to city areas?
[09:26:57] <amee2k> Jan-: i don't want you to die from burnout syndrome :(
[09:27:02] <CapnKernel> (But she IS real good at running around waving her arms...)
[09:27:23] <CapnKernel> s/base/bait/\
[09:27:24] <amee2k> CapnKernel: well, yes. but i'm wearing a hi vis vest while waving my arms around, so i win *nod*
[09:27:34] <CapnKernel> LOL
[09:27:36] <amee2k> http://th06.deviantart.net/fs42/PRE/f/2009/146/9/c/TeH_N000B_by_amee2k.png
[09:27:38] <amee2k> \o/
[09:27:53] <CapnKernel> amee2k: orz
[09:28:04] <amee2k> because i don't want to get run over by wild-running cars from the UK
[09:28:13] <Jan-> if australia is so safe why are there 101 websites about how you can die there while choking up your own innards
[09:28:13] <OndraSter> xD
[09:28:21] <OndraSter> only 101?
[09:28:32] <OndraSter> you know how many websites is there "how to behave on sidewalk"? :P
[09:28:34] <CapnKernel> Because there are nutjobs like you who will eat that stuff up
[09:28:38] <amee2k> Jan-: you should better ask why there aren't sites like that about the UK
[09:28:40] <CapnKernel> It's supply and demand
[09:29:12] * CapnKernel would like Jan- a lot more if she stuck to the technical.
[09:29:37] <CapnKernel> It seems Jan is very fond of her ASB.
[09:29:57] <Jan-> actually with regard to australia and all the deadly creatures it's a pure honest obsession
[09:29:57] <OndraSter> ASB?
[09:30:06] <CapnKernel> Attention Seeking Behaviour.
[09:30:09] <OndraSter> oh
[09:30:17] <CapnKernel> After all, you'll have to admit, she IS pretty good at the running around waving her arms stuff.
[09:30:19] <OndraSter> "annoying orange"? :D
[09:30:25] <Jan-> KNIFE!
[09:30:32] <CapnKernel> ASB.
[09:30:34] <Sgt_Lemming> I think you are mistaking obsession with paranoia Jan-
[09:30:53] <Jan-> http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-Dangerous-Marine-Animals-in-Australian-Waters
[09:31:04] <Jan-> "Australians like to tease overseas visitors about the dangerous animals lurking on land and in water. Unfortunately, this sense of humour is a coping mechanism for those living in a land beset by venomous and downright dangerous beasties. "
[09:31:04] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming: You're making the same mistake you always do: You're assuming you're dealing with a rational person.
[09:31:10] <OndraSter> I am paranoid at some things... but not anything health related. "so I cut myself, I can see my bone. So what, just tape it over and done!"
[09:31:42] <amee2k> OndraSter: i'm annoying, and i like orange. does that count too?
[09:31:49] <OndraSter> :D
[09:32:16] * amee2k idly cuddles his warm orange hi vis winter jacket
[09:33:36] <Jan-> well OK, cocky australians
[09:33:41] <OndraSter> :D
[09:33:53] * CapnKernel waits for the next installment of ASB.
[09:33:53] <Jan-> how many times have you been bitten/stung/trampled/sunburned/swept away by tides in Australia?
[09:34:07] * Jan- forgot "eaten"
[09:34:26] <amee2k> i've been bitten by a sharp edge on a cdrom drive case once
[09:34:38] <OndraSter> I've been bitten by some spider
[09:34:38] <Jan-> CapnKernel: you guys always do this, you play down the dangers, then you show us your missing fingers or whatever
[09:34:40] <amee2k> stamped sheet metal can be nasty
[09:34:41] <OndraSter> I hate spiders
[09:34:45] <CapnKernel> I got bitten by an ant when I was 5, and stung by a bee when I was 21, and nothing since. I haven't been sunburned in more than 20 years.
[09:34:52] <amee2k> i was like pissing blood out of my thumb
[09:35:00] <OndraSter> oh
[09:35:07] <OndraSter> stung by bee in 12 or so myself
[09:35:26] <Steffanx> One year ago OndraSter ? :P
[09:35:28] <amee2k> noone else was there and i didn't have anything to plug the leak so i called the emergency number
[09:35:32] <OndraSter> Steffanx, bla bla :P
[09:35:40] <amee2k> the EMTs had nice red cross hi vis jackets :)
[09:35:52] <CapnKernel> amee2k: Should have called a plumber instead.
[09:35:57] <amee2k> lol
[09:35:58] <OndraSter> lol
[09:36:06] <amee2k> plumbers usually come in blue here :/
[09:36:15] <OndraSter> I cut myself once on leg, on a toe
[09:36:17] <OndraSter> I could see the bone
[09:36:22] <amee2k> 0.0
[09:36:23] <Jan-> Wow
[09:36:28] <amee2k> well, at least i learned from it
[09:36:28] <Jan-> I've been bitten by ants more than that
[09:36:31] <OndraSter> well, I simply used some medical tape or wahteer you call it
[09:36:31] <Jan-> and I live in the UK
[09:36:37] <amee2k> i haven't had a single cdrom drive in my room ever since
[09:36:40] <OndraSter> and forgot about it lol
[09:36:50] <OndraSter> now I have small visible line on my to
[09:36:51] <OndraSter> toe
[09:36:52] <amee2k> USB sticks are much safer
[09:37:06] <amee2k> you can only suffocate from swallowing them if they drop in the coffee mug by accident
[09:37:12] <Jan-> CapnKernel: and you were in hospital, rehabilitation and a wheelchair for how long?
[09:37:12] <amee2k> not cut off your fingers
[09:37:19] <CapnKernel> Jan-: So we've put some hard numbers on the table and it seems you've suffered faunal assault more than us Aussies.
[09:37:24] <OndraSter> hospital?
[09:37:34] <OndraSter> I hate hospitals
[09:37:42] <OndraSter> I am scared to go to doctor so he can't find anything wrong with me lol
[09:37:55] <OndraSter> I haven't been sick for about 6 years now
[09:38:02] <OndraSter> and I go to nasty places
[09:38:07] <OndraSter> (school for example)
[09:38:21] <CapnKernel> We have wasps here which can get in the can of your carbonated beverage, then when you drink it, they can sting you in the throat and cause asphyxiation.
[09:38:33] <OndraSter> that happens here too
[09:38:40] <OndraSter> QUICK, YOU CAN'T COME TO PRAGUE, Jan-!
[09:38:40] <CapnKernel> The irony is the name we call these critters: "European wasps"
[09:38:59] <OndraSter> how is beer in Australia btw?
[09:39:04] <OndraSter> as good as here in CZE?
[09:39:17] <CapnKernel> It's great, it's totally a Foster's-free environment!
[09:39:24] <Jan-> CapnKernel: but you left Australia.
[09:39:32] <Jan-> You are now immune from the stinging, biting nasties.
[09:39:36] <CapnKernel> OndraSter: I wouldn't say that. But it's not too bad.
[09:39:45] <OndraSter> hmm
[09:39:49] <OndraSter> that is "con" for australia
[09:39:51] <OndraSter> I NEED BEER
[09:39:55] <CapnKernel> Muuuuch better than the beer situation here in China. There's three beers and they're all swill.
[09:40:00] <Sgt_Lemming> there are some ok australian beers
[09:40:05] <OndraSter> haha china beer
[09:40:11] <CapnKernel> I've brought two beer making kits to China because the situation here is so dire
[09:40:13] <Sgt_Lemming> but most of my favourite beers are foreign ones
[09:40:15] <CapnKernel> My hacker friends love it
[09:40:29] <OndraSter> I got 5l keg on xmas
[09:40:31] <OndraSter> :P
[09:40:34] <Sgt_Lemming> some of the Tassie beers are pretty nice
[09:40:36] <CapnKernel> Niice
[09:40:48] <CapnKernel> There are lots of smaller brewing houses doing good stuff.
[09:40:56] <OndraSter> http://im9.cz/iR/importprodukt-orig/54d/54d018a31e947ca34447568777cf3e77.jpg
[09:41:07] <OndraSter> I grabbed it to party
[09:41:12] <OndraSter> brough back something above half of it
[09:41:16] <OndraSter> I drank half of the half one night
[09:41:20] <OndraSter> and then the remaining the other night
[09:41:27] <OndraSter> "IT HAS GOTTA END ALREADY! I AM GETTING DRUNK"
[09:41:32] <OndraSter> ... another 300ml in me
[09:41:36] <OndraSter> "NO END YET!!"
[09:41:47] <OndraSter> "I can't leave the remaining 100ml there"
[09:41:51] <OndraSter> .. another 300ml in me
[09:41:55] <OndraSter> "zomg it is still not the last one!"
[09:41:56] <OndraSter> lol
[09:43:46] <CapnKernel> Here's a brewery in the country town where I went to high school: http://www.grand-ridge.com.au/
[09:45:40] <OndraSter> fat guy on the front, looks promising lol
[09:46:30] <dirty_d> you guys think my computer's serial port will recieve data with my avr at 3.3v?
[09:46:45] <dirty_d> i wont connect rx
[09:46:50] <dirty_d> so the avr wont see any high voltages
[09:46:55] <dirty_d> just gnd and tx
[09:47:39] <CapnKernel> dirty_d: Is the port real RS-232, or TTL-level serial?
[09:47:59] <CapnKernel> If it's TTL-level, then a 3v3 output should drive it ok
[09:48:38] <CapnKernel> Your board can receive too if you have some extra components, for example (making this up), a resistor and a zener diode
[09:50:51] <OndraSter> isn't RS232 actually -13 +13?
[09:51:06] <Sgt_Lemming> +-12v
[09:51:39] <OndraSter> hmm
[09:51:43] <OndraSter> almost
[09:51:51] <Sgt_Lemming> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rs232#Voltage_levels
[09:51:57] <OndraSter> with a diode and a pulldown resistor you could probably do it
[09:52:00] <OndraSter> and zener
[09:52:02] <Sgt_Lemming> "signal levels of ±5 V, ±10 V, ±12 V, and ±15 V are all commonly seen depending on the power supplies available within a device"
[09:53:21] <dirty_d> CapnKernel, i belive its rs-232, so +/- 12v
[09:53:41] <CapnKernel> I don't like your chances, but do let us know
[09:54:12] <dirty_d> i had some simple circuit a while ago that converted it
[09:54:18] <dirty_d> 2 treansistors and a capacitor i think
[09:54:37] <dirty_d> it used the tx from the pc to charge the cap for the avr to use with its tx
[09:55:39] <CapnKernel> Give it a go then.
[09:59:57] <Sgt_Lemming> use the TX line to drive an optoisolator on the serial port of the pc
[10:00:07] <Sgt_Lemming> pretty much guaranteed to work then
[10:00:13] <CapnKernel> Good idea
[10:00:16] <dirty_d> hmm
[10:00:29] <dirty_d> yea, im not ready to do this now anyway, got more stuff to do first
[10:00:39] <Sgt_Lemming> same trick can also work in reverse
[10:01:02] <Sgt_Lemming> just need an opto that accepts high level input
[10:11:05] <dirty_d> hrrm, i guess i can simulate servo pulses with my sound card
[10:11:05] <dirty_d> i dont have a rx/tx yet
[10:11:58] <CapnKernel> dirty_d: interesting idea!
[10:12:13] <CapnKernel> You'd have to threshold the signal
[10:12:27] <Sgt_Lemming> lol
[10:15:36] <CapnKernel> You could program the movement of two servos for a long as you wanted by playing a stereo wav file!
[10:15:48] <Sgt_Lemming> and looping it
[10:16:12] <CapnKernel> For example, an X-Y laser deflector
[10:16:18] <CapnKernel> yeah
[10:16:35] <dirty_d> threshold it?
[10:16:56] <CapnKernel> Turn the analog signal into TTL
[10:17:22] <dirty_d> CapnKernel, it should be able to generate an acceptable square wave at 50Hz wont it?
[10:17:25] <CapnKernel> Maybe amplify with a fet
[10:17:25] <dirty_d> thats really slow
[10:17:35] <CapnKernel> Yes sure
[10:17:50] <CapnKernel> It'd be cool to listen to, kind of like the PWM noise our trams make.
[10:17:57] <dirty_d> lol
[10:22:27] <dirty_d> hmm
[10:22:31] <dirty_d> yea its ac, oops
[10:22:32] <dirty_d> lol
[10:22:41] * Jan- wakes up
[10:22:43] <dirty_d> i think i can offset a wave in audacity so its dc
[10:22:45] <Jan-> *yawnstretch*
[10:25:12] <Sgt_Lemming> dirty_d, just run it through a single diode
[10:25:26] <Sgt_Lemming> it'll knock off the negative part of the signal
[10:25:28] * Jan- offers Sgt_Lemming a little cake
[10:25:42] * Roamin eats the cake.
[10:25:52] <Jan-> Hey@!
[10:25:53] <Sgt_Lemming> the cake is a lie
[10:25:57] <Jan-> Oh well, plenty for everyone
[10:26:05] * Roamin nods.
[10:26:08] <Jan-> I'd send you a real cake, Sgt, but it'd be pretty high by the time it got down there.
[10:26:19] <Jan-> And a toxic creature would eat it before it arrived, probably.
[10:26:20] * Jan- hides
[10:26:47] <CapnKernel> Good
[10:26:56] <Jan-> what
[10:27:25] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZqS3BcHwU
[10:27:29] <OndraSter> engineering goodness
[10:29:52] <Jan-> you have GOT to be kidding
[10:29:57] <Jan-> "Britney Pinkerella?"
[10:31:02] <Jan-> oh that is just BLEAK
[10:31:13] <Jan-> is this for kids with no real friends?
[10:33:01] <Jan-> oh snrk: "UK-specific model sold by Amazon.co.uk will respond to UK and Irish accents"
[10:33:38] <OndraSter> xD
[10:34:14] <Jan-> I find this curiously bleak though
[10:34:57] <Jan-> is this really what people want for their kids?
[10:35:01] <Jan-> an electronic FRIEND?
[10:36:45] <CapnKernel> Jan had an electronic FRIEND. But the batteries went flat.
[10:37:48] <Jan-> quiet you
[10:38:08] <OndraSter> :D
[10:38:45] <Jan-> I haven't ever been unpleasant to CapnKernel but he's gone all Aussie and decided I'm a... what's the word... whingeing pom?
[10:38:49] * Jan- lights CapnKernel on fire
[10:39:25] <CapnKernel> I'm warm, I'm warm!
[10:40:03] <Jan-> I guess that does explain why you were cold though
[10:40:19] <CapnKernel> Outside temperature: 13C. And the door's open
[10:40:36] <Jan-> more to the point: you're used to it being 100 degrees in the shade the whole time.
[10:40:57] <CapnKernel> 100F In my home town it can get a lot hotter than 100F
[10:41:49] <Sgt_Lemming> where abouts CapnKernel?
[10:41:59] <CapnKernel> Melbourne dude, you know that.
[10:42:05] <CapnKernel> Can get to 115F
[10:42:18] <Sgt_Lemming> surprised it's that warm in melb
[10:42:24] <Sgt_Lemming> it's probably less than that here
[10:42:43] <Jan-> y'wanna hear something really alarming? in the town where I live there's a housing estate where all the street names are taken from Australian localities
[10:42:47] <CapnKernel> We don't have QLD's humidity. It's an extremely dry heat
[10:43:02] <Sgt_Lemming> 72°f here apparently
[10:43:08] <CapnKernel> OMG it's Neighbours Envy
[10:43:25] <Jan-> so there's Queensland Crescent, Auckland Close, etc
[10:43:29] <Jan-> it's weird
[10:43:34] <CapnKernel> Er, that's not Australia
[10:43:38] <Jan-> same thing
[10:43:43] <Sgt_Lemming> Auckland is in New Zealand
[10:43:45] <Jan-> exactly :)
[10:43:47] <Sgt_Lemming> not the same thing at all
[10:43:48] <Jan-> I think someone missed it
[10:43:55] <Jan-> but that's not the point
[10:43:57] <CapnKernel> For my next trick, I'm going to say that famous part of England called Scotland.
[10:44:18] <CapnKernel> same thing eh?
[10:44:38] <Jan-> the point is that the single worst centre of crime and hideousness in the entire town is a huge, universally hated, hideously ugly tower block called Melbourne Court.
[10:44:45] <CapnKernel> Actually probably fairer to say that famous part of Britain called Ireland.
[10:45:01] <Jan-> So where I'm from, Melbourne is a urine-soaked monument to inner city decay.
[10:45:13] <Jan-> Which stands in stark contrast to the actual Melbourne.
[10:45:22] <CapnKernel> Right about now, if I had to choose, I think I'm preferring my critters.
[10:46:15] <Jan-> well, on one hand, the urine-soaked, much-graffiti'd apartment block won't kill you
[10:47:10] <Jan-> I'm not even kidding: http://g.co/maps/y6kzs
[10:47:50] <Jan-> not sure about Albany though
[10:47:51] <Jan-> \where's that
[10:48:31] <Sgt_Lemming> Albany New York
[10:48:46] <Jan-> well yeah I know but what's the antipodean connection
[10:49:58] <Sgt_Lemming> there's a Melbounre in Florida as well
[10:50:07] <Sgt_Lemming> and a Brisbane in California
[10:51:02] <OndraSter> shouldn't Melbourne and Brisbane be in Aus?
[10:51:15] <Jan-> if it's any consolation, there's about four places in the US named after the town I live in
[10:51:17] <Jan-> it's tedious
[10:51:21] <Jan-> COLONIALS, get an original idea
[10:51:27] <OndraSter> haha
[10:51:30] <OndraSter> dudes
[10:51:33] <OndraSter> there is Prague in USA too
[10:51:36] <OndraSter> some small city lol
[10:51:38] <Jan-> On the other hand don't
[10:51:39] <Sgt_Lemming> OndraSter, yes they are, just pointing out that they aren't the only ones
[10:51:49] <Jan-> you just end up with places named after native words
[10:52:00] <Jan-> like Toronto
[10:52:05] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, there are plenty of places here with aboriginal names
[10:52:20] <Jan-> Sure, like that little town, what's it called... Didjabringabeeralong?
[10:52:28] * Jan- ducks
[10:52:41] <CapnKernel> In my childhood, the next town over from me was Boolarra, which is aboriginal for "mudhole"
[10:53:03] <Jan-> I do notice that places in Australia have a tendency to be named after Darling or Murray, whoever they were.
[10:53:15] <Jan-> or Stuart
[10:53:28] <Sgt_Lemming> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Darling
[10:53:49] <Jan-> ...or even Murray AND Darling
[10:54:43] * Jan- looks this up
[10:54:44] <Jan-> General Sir Ralph Darling, GCH (1772[1] – 2 April 1858) was a British colonial Governor and Governor of New South Wales from 1825 to 1831.
[10:56:00] <Jan-> you can always tell someone was a bit of a C if he has "general sir" at the start of his name.
[10:56:34] <Kre10s> a Crustacean?
[10:56:36] <CapnKernel> Almost as bad a Sergeant Major. (And yes I know a Sergeant Major)
[10:56:45] <CapnKernel> Not to mention CapnKernel.
[10:57:00] <CapnKernel> I mean I did once, but I think I got away with it.
[10:57:00] <Jan-> the only military person I know is a flight lieutenant.
[10:57:09] <Jan-> and she's OK
[11:00:57] <OndraSter> lol
[11:00:57] <OndraSter> http://uk.farnell.com/molex/90131-0765/header-vertical-2row-10way/dp/9733590
[11:01:02] <OndraSter> I can get this for 1/10th of this price
[11:01:03] <OndraSter> localy
[11:01:44] <Jan-> why would you order from the UK
[11:02:07] <OndraSter> I would order from czech reseller of farnell
[11:02:12] <OndraSter> (same prices as farnell, but cheaper shipping)
[11:02:13] <grummund> really?... 1/10 price for gold plated and made by molex?
[11:02:18] <OndraSter> don't care who made it
[11:02:22] <OndraSter> maybe 1/5
[11:02:27] <OndraSter> but the price is really... high
[11:02:43] <grummund> heh. funnily enough i don't care either
[11:03:11] <OndraSter> http://www.ges.cz/cz/pld-12s-GES06614138.html
[11:03:13] <OndraSter> 2.2 CZK
[11:03:17] <OndraSter> that farnell one = 20 CZK or so
[11:03:30] <grummund> if it's not the same then it's not true to say you can get it 1/10 of the price
[11:03:42] <OndraSter> they don't have manufacturer written here
[11:03:46] <OndraSter> but it is gold plated too
[11:13:54] <Sgt_Lemming> annoying thing about the DRC in fritzing being really useless? I have to really REALLY carefully check the entire PCB
[11:14:43] * CapnKernel is really sick of the sound of Chinese people having domestic arguments.
[11:14:55] <Sgt_Lemming> lol
[11:15:00] <Tom_itx> like a bunch of chickens in a coup?
[11:15:18] <cyanide> hello hello
[11:15:18] <CapnKernel> Is that a bloodless coup Tom_itx???
[11:15:32] <Tom_itx> ok, a cock fight ring?
[11:15:50] <CapnKernel> More like cats in season
[11:16:03] <Jan-> What are they arguing about
[11:16:05] <CapnKernel> I mean I feel for the people involved, there's a lot of pain involved
[11:16:11] <CapnKernel> There's a girl screaming at the moment
[11:16:18] <Jan-> \does she sound in danger
[11:16:21] <Jan-> or is "sounding in danger" normal
[11:16:24] <Tom_itx> can you see them?
[11:16:25] <CapnKernel> Chucking a major hissy fit
[11:16:30] <cyanide> how many interrupt pins does an atmega 168/328 have?
[11:16:45] <cyanide> i have the 2 int0 and int1 that i can trigger
[11:16:47] <CapnKernel> These are 7 story buildings with 1m between them. not possible to see anything anywhere
[11:16:58] <CapnKernel> Even if someone's in danger, you never do anything about it
[11:16:59] <cyanide> how can i use the pin change interrupt pins?
[11:17:10] <Tom_itx> cyanide,
[11:17:13] <CapnKernel> You would humiliate them enormously if you got involved
[11:17:15] <cyanide> yes boxx
[11:17:18] <cyanide> boss*
[11:17:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/atmega328/PCINT0/
[11:18:04] <cyanide> thanks! ill go through it
[11:20:38] <Jan-> CapnKernel: and this is why China is...
[11:20:39] <Jan-> what's the word
[11:20:40] <Jan-> ass?
[11:20:47] <grummund> OndraSter: http://uk.farnell.com/fci/68602-110hlf/board-board-conn-header-10way-2row/dp/1824432
[11:20:51] <Tom_itx> just remember pin change interrupts interrupt on both edges
[11:20:53] <Jan-> You'd humiliate someone here if you stuck your oar in to their domestic
[11:20:57] <Kre10s> the avr writes flash two bytes at a time, but addresses by byte address. If I write 0xbeef to addr 0. addr 0 will be 0xbe addr 1 will be 0xef. what happens when I write 0xbeef to addr 1? will addr 1 be 0xbe and addr 2 be 0xef?
[11:20:58] <Tom_itx> no getting around that
[11:21:40] <Jan-> mm, beef!
[11:21:51] <Kre10s> if my page size is 128 what happens when I write 0xbeef to addr 128? addr 128 will be 0xbe... where does the 0xef go?
[11:22:46] <Sgt_Lemming> Kre10s, you either page fault, or depending on the cpu loop back to 0
[11:23:14] <amee2k> cake > beef
[11:23:24] <Jan-> yes
[11:23:26] <Jan-> but there's no K in hex
[11:23:28] <Sgt_Lemming> Cake needs base32 :-P
[11:23:45] <amee2k> there is no K in beef either :P
[11:23:57] <Jan-> *sigh*
[11:24:05] <OndraSter> grummund, that's better :P
[11:24:29] <Kre10s> OK. so its best to stay inside the page boundry. but I can fill the page in odd places, not necessarily on a word boundry right?
[11:24:29] <OndraSter> they had it under diff category
[11:24:32] <OndraSter> same thing, diff category
[11:24:39] <OndraSter> still, localy it is half the price :P
[11:24:53] <OndraSter> plus this is stock in USA
[11:24:58] <OndraSter> = $34 to ship it here
[11:25:07] <OndraSter> farnell is overpriced as hell
[11:26:19] <grummund> OndraSter: you pay for convenience, but also if you must compare do it like for like!
[11:26:31] <grummund> that part is brand name manufacturer, gold plate, high temp plastic, certified lead free, yada yada...
[11:26:38] <OndraSter> hmm
[11:26:43] <OndraSter> right
[11:26:51] <Jan-> pshaw lead free
[11:26:54] <grummund> not some cheapo eastern look a like
[11:27:31] <Jan-> CapnKernel, what takes you to china in any case?
[11:27:51] <Kre10s> ... its a pinheader
[11:27:57] <CapnKernel> The city I'm in has the world's largest electronics market.
[11:28:26] <CapnKernel> Back in Australia I found myself wasting huge amounts of time finding parts for my projects.
[11:28:41] <CapnKernel> I'm willing to bet other hackers have the same problem.
[11:28:51] <CapnKernel> I've moved here to start a business which will solve these problems.
[11:28:52] <Jan-> I'm not really advanced enough to have that problem
[11:28:58] <Jan-> do you speak chinese?
[11:29:02] <CapnKernel> Yes
[11:29:05] <CapnKernel> 会
[11:29:11] <Jan-> crikey
[11:29:13] <Jan-> that's frightening
[11:29:23] <CapnKernel> You don't survive here unless you do.
[11:29:40] * Jan- shuffles away from CapnKernel
[11:29:44] * Jan- is afraid
[11:29:48] <CapnKernel> Jan-: My blog: http://hackvana.blogspot.com/
[11:30:12] <CapnKernel> In particular: http://hackvana.blogspot.com/2011/09/suppliers-look-inside-component-markets.html
[11:30:14] <Jan-> so you're going to become...
[11:30:22] <Jan-> ...a sort of dealextreme of electronics
[11:30:28] <Jan-> only presumably more expensive
[11:31:09] <Jan-> so we too can buy flash chips of dubious provenance!
[11:31:26] <OndraSter> DX is not that cheap actualy
[11:31:56] <amee2k> the crap they sell is though :P
[11:32:21] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, I had actually another idea... build your own SSD ]:-> ... Not sure what techniques are they using now... if they are like stripping the data across many serial flash or do simple "bank switching-like" method where first 4GB = first chip, another 4GB = second chip etc
[11:33:25] <CapnKernel> I'm not interested in being a DX. They are sellers of gadgets, and not very good gadgets at that.
[11:33:59] <CapnKernel> I can't give you a one-line description of what I'm all about. The blog says it though.
[11:34:16] <Jan-> how's it going?
[11:34:19] <Jan-> can I buy stuff yet?
[11:35:06] <CapnKernel> It's very slow because I only have 1.5 people.
[11:35:15] <Jan-> Sounds...
[11:35:16] <Jan-> ...messy?
[11:35:17] <CapnKernel> Can you buy stuff? Yes. A number of people in #avr have bought from me.
[11:35:25] <cyanide> and im about to
[11:35:26] <cyanide> lol
[11:35:29] <cyanide> mitch is da man
[11:35:44] <Jan-> I'm sure everything you have for sale is way above my head, but I shall keep you in mind for my future fake-memory-chip-purchasing needs :)
[11:35:51] <amee2k> do you have a catalog or something btw?
[11:36:19] <CapnKernel> I have a website but it only has a few things on it. They are things folks have asked me to quote them on.
[11:36:35] <CapnKernel> But if you want something, ask me for a quote. I'll find the stuff, take pics, and you can see it (and order it) on the website.
[11:36:38] <amee2k> Jan-: i have some dead attinys that i can relabel as memory chips and sell to you
[11:36:49] <OndraSter> :D
[11:36:55] <CapnKernel> Poor quality stuff is a MAJOR problem here.
[11:37:14] <cyanide> CapnKernel, that blog post is awesome
[11:37:22] <CapnKernel> Thanks man.
[11:37:26] <Jan-> well in all seriousness "china quality" is a standard insult in the UK anytime someone comes across something a bit substandard
[11:37:31] <CapnKernel> It's a very very exciting place to be.
[11:37:38] <Jan-> "How's your cheeseburger?" *grimace* "A bit china quality"
[11:37:39] <amee2k> do you do small quantities? like, <10pcs and total order values <50-60EUR
[11:37:41] <cyanide> those stalls... what i would do to be there lol
[11:38:01] * CapnKernel adopts outrage mode: "What's wrong with Made in China? My wife's Made in China? What you saying about her?"
[11:38:05] <amee2k> Jan-: it is a standard insult pretty much everywhere
[11:38:34] <Jan-> CapnKernel: did the communist party cause her to somehow be of lower-than-usual quality?
[11:38:36] <cyanide> i know another guy who's wife was chinese lol
[11:38:38] <CapnKernel> That's why it's important to have someone on the ground here who will take care of that stuff
[11:38:40] <Jan-> does she have the usual number of limbs etc?
[11:38:40] <cyanide> hahahah
[11:38:43] <cyanide> hahahaha
[11:39:02] <amee2k> or the usual number of orifices?
[11:39:06] * amee2k runs
[11:39:14] <CapnKernel> All the ones I've tried seem to work just fine.
[11:39:21] <Jan-> I wasn't going to bring orifices into this amee2k, but clearly I'm the only person with any form of decorum.
[11:39:29] <cyanide> lol
[11:39:34] <CapnKernel> I got some transistors the other day, they were oxidised. The point is I can fix that much earlier than if they had been shipped to overseas
[11:39:45] <amee2k> Jan-: :P
[11:40:18] <Jan-> the thing about the big shenzen electronics marts is that you can'treally buy less than X thousand units, right?
[11:40:34] <amee2k> < amee2k> do you do small quantities? like, <10pcs and total order values <50-60EUR << CapnKernel :)
[11:42:54] <amee2k> CapnKernel: also, do you plan on doing any board orders too?
[11:43:34] <CapnKernel> amee2k: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: It's in my blog, most recent article!
[11:43:54] <amee2k> hmm your blog?
[11:44:05] <OndraSter> http://hackvana.blogspot.com/
[11:44:09] <CapnKernel> http://hackvana.blogspot.com/
[11:44:16] <CapnKernel> Esp http://hackvana.blogspot.com/2011/09/suppliers-look-inside-component-markets.html
[11:44:44] <CapnKernel> amee2k: re "do you do small quantities? like, <10pcs and total order values <50-60EUR", yes and yes.
[11:45:03] <OndraSter> you ship by regular china air mail I presume
[11:45:09] <OndraSter> for those $3 - $5 for small packages
[11:45:34] <CapnKernel> My free shipping option is HK Post, it's somewhat better than China Post.
[11:45:49] <CapnKernel> If you want stuff quicker, that can be arranged.
[11:45:50] <OndraSter> free :o)
[11:45:53] <Jan-> but Hong Kong is part of Ch....
[11:45:57] * Jan- just shuts up
[11:46:00] * Jan- will never understand, eh
[11:46:29] <CapnKernel> Jan-: I'll explain it to you.
[11:46:43] <Jan-> wait wait
[11:46:45] <Jan-> Using instant messaging, I will tell you what I want, then you take the goods to a certain nearby address, and I will give you cash
[11:46:46] <amee2k> CapnKernel: interresting
[11:46:50] <Jan-> that does sound super shady
[11:46:54] <CapnKernel> Let's say there's Company A. They have a huge presence in the market, they're a household name.
[11:47:31] <CapnKernel> Company B wants to buy company A, and indeed, they buy it out.
[11:47:39] <amee2k> will you be doing small board orders for prototype runs too? e.g. 3-5 boards or so
[11:48:12] <CapnKernel> But Company B leaves Company A's brand alone, even though they now own company A, because of company A's acceptance in the market.
[11:48:17] <CapnKernel> One owner, two companies
[11:48:30] <CapnKernel> Well China is like that. It "owns" HK, but it lets HK do its thing.
[11:48:36] <CapnKernel> They are smart enough not to mess with it.
[11:48:37] <amee2k> CapnKernel: what would sound pretty cool is also a "kits on demand" service with a similar business model as books on demand
[11:48:51] <CapnKernel> amee2k: That is precisely what I want to do.
[11:49:03] <Jan-> I wonder if you could do printed circuit boards like that
[11:49:04] <CapnKernel> Let's say you design something. You write it up on your blog
[11:49:07] <amee2k> sweet!
[11:49:09] <Jan-> or even small engineering jobs using CAD files
[11:49:27] <CapnKernel> You come to my site and put in the bill of materials. I give you a link, which you put on your blog
[11:49:46] <CapnKernel> Other cool hackers read your blog and click on the link. Comes to me, they pay with Paypal and they're in and out in two minutes, and you get a cut
[11:50:00] <CapnKernel> Next day, the parts ship
[11:50:01] <Jan-> what if you can't get the right parts
[11:50:11] <CapnKernel> This place is a bottomless pit of parts
[11:50:32] <Jan-> is this how all this china-quality junk on DX is made
[11:50:32] <CapnKernel> The magic of being here is that there's no need for inventory
[11:50:33] <amee2k> ever since i got a hot air station i've especially been noticing how few good SMT kits are out there. most popular suppliers have SMT parts pre-soldered so all that is left to assemble is soldering headers on and putting the boards in a box
[11:50:49] <CapnKernel> amee2k: yes
[11:51:13] <CapnKernel> I have a similar kit that I designed specifically as an SMD soldering exercise: https://sites.google.com/a/afork.com/usbdoodad/
[11:51:33] <CapnKernel> I solder the ATmega168, and the customers do the rest.
[11:51:42] <Jan-> ooh, a doodad
[11:51:43] <Jan-> what does it do
[11:51:46] <Jan-> ...dad?
[11:51:54] <CapnKernel> Is that a "dad" joke?
[11:51:59] <CapnKernel> Anything you want, it's a general purpose board
[11:52:09] <CapnKernel> That you can program by sticking it into the USB port
[11:52:11] <amee2k> well, i don't mean the practice kits. you can get SMT LED smiley boards from conrad
[11:52:37] <amee2k> i mean real kits that do something, like you used to be able to get with real parts
[11:52:47] <CapnKernel> Let's say you design something, and people like it and 60 people want you to supply the parts. You doing to go to the post office 60 times?
[11:52:59] <CapnKernel> Waste of your time, you'd be better off farming that out to someone who's good at that, ie, me.
[11:53:06] <CapnKernel> So you can get on with designing more cool stuff
[11:53:39] <Jan-> aren't you going to have to live in china for this though
[11:53:43] <amee2k> for example, my dad bought a water sensor kit last summer. it had 90% of the parts presoldered because they were SMT. you just put the LCD display module on and shove it into the box. thats all the assembly you get to do
[11:53:54] <amee2k> and that is pretty piss poor as far as kit culture goes
[11:53:58] <CapnKernel> amee2k: For better or worse
[11:54:08] <CapnKernel> Yes, it's hardly a celebration of maker culture, is it?
[11:54:22] <CapnKernel> Jan-: For the first few years, yes.
[11:54:40] <Jan-> poor CapnKernel
[11:54:53] <amee2k> i don't want to spend 10 bucks for a LED smiley board for soldering practice that i run for 3 minutes, have on my desk for 3 weeks, and then pull the LEDs off and throw the board away
[11:54:56] <Jan-> still I hope it'll be worthwhile :)
[11:55:14] <CapnKernel> I'm living my dream Jan-. Bloody hard work but I'm enjoying what I'm doing. And I love the idea I'll be able to help hackers, folks like just here in #avr.
[11:55:25] <CapnKernel> amee2k: Yeah that sux
[11:55:42] <CapnKernel> amee2k: but you can do something about it!
[11:55:47] <CapnKernel> Design kits that don't suck!
[11:55:54] <Jan-> CapnKernel I don't suppose you can get those big tens-of-watts LED driver clusters
[11:55:57] <Jan-> only in red, green and blue?
[11:56:02] <CapnKernel> Put them on your blog, and I'll do the heavy lifting.
[11:56:07] <amee2k> thats what i want to work on >_>
[11:56:09] <CapnKernel> Jan-: I can.
[11:56:16] <Jan-> ...in ones?
[11:56:23] <CapnKernel> Yes. Anything you want.
[11:56:29] <CapnKernel> Hang on Jan-, I'll show you a very special photo.
[11:56:33] <CapnKernel> Well, special to me.
[11:56:41] <Jan-> ok, but I'll have to get Phil to look at it
[11:56:44] <OndraSter> your wife?
[11:56:44] <amee2k> the problem i have right now is that i have zero board prototyping infrastructure, and SMT parts suck on stripeboard
[11:57:42] <amee2k> what would be really helpful is a board prototyping service with half decent turnaround time and manufacturing capabilities that doesn't need a credit card
[11:58:28] <amee2k> since 90% of the decent board services are US or chinese based, i'm pretty much stuck without a CC here
[12:00:04] <CapnKernel> amee2k: How about PayPal
[12:00:22] <CapnKernel> Ok, special pic time
[12:00:24] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, has anyone submitted already parts for Portal gun and GlaDOS? :P
[12:00:48] <CapnKernel> I spend three months at a time here, and of course I miss my family. And I'm led to believe they actually miss me too.
[12:01:04] <CapnKernel> But recently they were able to come to Shenzhen for the day, and I showed them around.
[12:01:21] <amee2k> CapnKernel: i've got an account that is backed by a real bank account via debit card, but when i tried to use it to pay for something in 90% of the cases i get a form that requires me to add a CC as well and i can't continue without it
[12:01:22] <CapnKernel> Here's us standing outside the Shenzhen International LED Trading Centre: http://imagebin.org/198419
[12:01:42] <CapnKernel> amee2k: You won't have that problem with me.
[12:01:49] <amee2k> :)
[12:02:19] <CapnKernel> That is six floors of electronics goodness, and more LEDs than you could solder in your lifetime.
[12:02:28] <OndraSter> heh
[12:03:25] <Jan-> sometimes DX have the red and green and blue ones
[12:03:28] <Jan-> but usually just white
[12:03:30] <CapnKernel> And that is only one building in city block after city block after city block of these buildings
[12:03:51] <amee2k> CapnKernel: whats your expected timeframe on getting the PCB service running?
[12:04:07] <CapnKernel> I can do PCBs now, but it's not online yet.
[12:04:18] <CapnKernel> We can talk offline and you send me the gerbers
[12:04:25] <CapnKernel> My turnaround: 4-5 days
[12:04:35] <amee2k> wow, thats very fast
[12:04:48] <Jan-> eventually when we get this whole strobe light thing sorted, we want to do an RGB version
[12:04:52] <CapnKernel> That's from when I put the order in, to when they arrive back at my door
[12:04:57] <CapnKernel> The best way of ensuring I get what you want is for you to give me a link to something similar that someone else has.
[12:05:05] <Jan-> but I suspect we won't be able to do enough volume to make it worthwhile
[12:05:11] <OndraSter> and prices? Usual sources as iteadstudio or seedstudio are $9.99 for 10 same boards and 5x5cm, $22 for 5x10 and $25 - $30 for 10x10
[12:05:19] <OndraSter> but the minimum is 10 boards
[12:05:47] <CapnKernel> It depends on the quality you want. If your board is not critical, I can do better than them. (I know where they get their boards made).
[12:05:58] <Jan-> also these LEDs can't be china quality
[12:06:06] <Jan-> some of those clusters have dead ones which means that whole string dies
[12:06:23] <OndraSter> etest required, both sides silkscreen and hot air leveling/any other (better possible?) surface required too
[12:06:34] <amee2k> i'm asking because i've got a project on hold whose next phase would be prototyping. i'm not sure about the design yet so i only want like 2-3 boards at first, and they're fairly large
[12:06:39] <CapnKernel> If your board needs more care, it's more expensive than they do, but then again, people are having problems with their boards.
[12:06:58] <CapnKernel> So it really depends on your requirements.
[12:07:39] <amee2k> currently the flat share i'm living in is considering moving to a larger place and i want to see how that works out financially first before i order anything expensive which will take at least another 4-6 weeks to sort out
[12:07:46] <CapnKernel> Jan-: The situation with the LED stuff is the same as with the PCBs. What you get will depend on what you pay for, but either way, it'll be cheaper than what you can get locally.
[12:08:08] <CapnKernel> The timing is up to you.
[12:08:51] <CapnKernel> The important part is that I'm here to help hobbyists and boutique engineers, and I can do parts and PCBs right now. All you need to do is ask. I get most quotes out the next day, and it's online and orderable.
[12:09:42] <CapnKernel> As time goes by I can go for my dream, which is to help people do kits
[12:10:00] <OndraSter> CapnKernel, can you also get some new Intel CPUs? Ivy Bridge ofc :D
[12:10:40] <CapnKernel> I can refer you to someone who does sourcing for that sort of thing, but because I wouldn't be involved, I couldn't stand by it like I do for the things I sell.
[12:11:05] <CapnKernel> But to be honest, computer parts are so competitive worldwide, you're going to get a good price from your Asian computer shop down the street.
[12:11:17] <OndraSter> I was joking... the thing is, many people get their hands on pre-final CPUs from China
[12:11:24] <OndraSter> and IBs are not out yet :D
[12:11:39] <CapnKernel> You have no idea of the stuff that goes on here...
[12:11:46] <OndraSter> nope
[12:12:13] <amee2k> as a preview of what i'd want... 2 layer ~6x20cm smt board, double sided solder stop, single sided or no silkscreen, 35um plating or thicker, solid copper vias if possible otherwise at least closed ones. if possible thick soft tin plating (>30um) but that seems to be an unusual surface finish so gold or bare copper will do fine too
[12:12:39] <CapnKernel> amee2k: "yes"
[12:12:39] <OndraSter> amee2k, what is it gonna be?
[12:12:44] <OndraSter> 6x20 sounds wide
[12:13:09] <amee2k> OndraSter: it is. the size has been the worst issue when looking for board places so far
[12:13:17] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:13:20] <OndraSter> 20cm is a lot
[12:13:30] <CapnKernel> I can't quote you without having the gerbers. But what you've said sounds doable.
[12:13:37] <amee2k> its going to be a power LED board that is supposed to hold 4 emitters spaced 50mm apart
[12:13:49] <CapnKernel> Do you have tiny traces?
[12:13:58] <CapnKernel> 8mil or smaller?
[12:13:59] <OndraSter> amee2k, heavy duty light?
[12:14:49] <amee2k> CapnKernel: i don't have a finished layout yet. since it'll be a while i'm taking my time and i still have some things i'm not sure about and want to take another look. just meant to give a rough outline of what i have in mind
[12:15:12] <CapnKernel> Sure
[12:15:14] <OndraSter> yeah... double check your BOM, or you will end up like me... two parts, one 0603 and one 1206 :(
[12:15:18] <OndraSter> but same values
[12:15:18] <amee2k> hmm i'd have to see but i think >8mil should do
[12:15:59] <amee2k> OndraSter: i'd say i'm targeting the heavy duty end on that one
[12:16:02] <CapnKernel> Jan-: I know what you mean about LED string quality
[12:17:39] <amee2k> with PTH stuff i'm used to seeing things work, at least to a degree, before i start making a board for it. that kind of fast prototyping stage is completely missing now which kind of makes me feel like i'm standing on a giant jellyfish lol
[12:17:43] <cyanide> Tom_itx, thanks for that link
[12:17:48] <cyanide> it worked!
[12:45:34] <Sgt_Lemming> https://picasaweb.google.com/115277388924201849210/PCBS?authkey=Gv1sRgCK73t-Cw3pmLmwE#5707948091536480674 <--- updated the RFID board again
[12:45:51] <Sgt_Lemming> comments/criticism please
[12:47:28] <Jan-> lemming don't claim it's open
[12:47:30] <Jan-> hardware can't be open
[12:47:35] <Jan-> and most people have no need to care in any case
[12:47:37] <Jan-> what does it do?
[12:47:38] <OndraSter> that chip on fire is awesome
[12:47:45] <OndraSter> open hardware = opensource
[12:47:46] <OndraSter> but hardware
[12:47:54] <Sgt_Lemming> OndraSter, that's the logo of Hackerspace Brisbane
[12:48:07] <OndraSter> one more reason to go to Aussies
[12:48:13] <OndraSter> (brisbane is aus right?)
[12:48:44] * Sgt_Lemming nods
[12:49:02] <OndraSter> I was always bad at geography :D
[12:49:11] <Jan-> lemming, Phil wants to know why you're using a DIL microcontroller
[12:49:15] <Jan-> (of the same kind we're using)
[12:49:43] <Sgt_Lemming> because it's easier to solder for people who want to build it
[12:49:48] <Jan-> ha
[12:49:54] <Jan-> that doesn't usually stop people
[12:49:58] <OndraSter> QFN is easy to solder too!
[12:50:00] <OndraSter> o wait.. :P
[12:50:15] <Sgt_Lemming> also easier to produce the board by hand
[12:50:23] <OndraSter> by hand?
[12:50:44] <Sgt_Lemming> as in toner transfer or something
[12:51:03] <OndraSter> it doesn't matter SMD/through hole
[12:51:05] <OndraSter> it is both sided
[12:51:43] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming: With a logo like that, is there any truth in the rumour that the slogan for HSBNE is "we let the smoke out"?
[12:51:48] <RikusW> tqfp is easy provided you have a pcb
[12:52:13] <Sgt_Lemming> CapnKernel: Halt; Smoke! Begin New Experiment
[12:52:47] <CapnKernel> LOL
[12:53:37] <Jan-> I assume you guys know aaaaallll about the magic blue smoke
[12:53:53] <Jan-> I'm quite amazed that we haven't released any here yet
[12:53:55] <Sgt_Lemming> yup
[12:53:58] <Jan-> microchips and breadboards
[12:54:05] <Jan-> it's a recipe for that hot plastic smell
[12:54:38] <Sgt_Lemming> Jan-, one of my frequent demo's at the space for people is putting about 3.5KvDC through a dead computer motherboard
[12:54:54] <Jan-> in fact I do believe our AVR board worked first time
[12:55:03] <Jan-> although by "worked" I mean "Read the chip's serial number"
[12:55:07] <Sgt_Lemming> we've made caps pop so hard the can of the cap audibly pinged off the roof
[12:55:08] <Jan-> which probably isn't very impressive
[12:55:21] <Sgt_Lemming> roof is 8m high btw
[12:55:36] <Jan-> pfeh
[12:55:40] <Jan-> wanton destruction
[12:55:52] <Jan-> recover the capacitors and use them for interesting new projects!
[12:55:55] <CapnKernel> Sgt_Lemming: Are you using a resonator?
[12:56:00] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah
[12:56:11] <Sgt_Lemming> gives me a little more space, and is easier to implement
[12:56:36] <CapnKernel> Is it possible to get it closer to the chip, by routing those two orange tracks to the north a bit?
[12:56:51] <CapnKernel> Are you using ADC in this design?
[12:57:32] <Sgt_Lemming> possible, but not easy
[12:57:48] <Sgt_Lemming> not using the ADC, but the pins for it are broken out for those who want to use them
[12:59:13] <Jan-> also where do you get 3.5kvdc
[12:59:27] <CapnKernel> If you're using the ADC, you'll get best results by following the AVR design guide, e.g. a 10mH inductor.
[12:59:50] <Sgt_Lemming> Microwave Oven Transformer rectified to DC Jan-
[13:00:15] <Jan-> sounds dangerous
[13:00:24] <Jan-> but then again you do live in a country with constant awful danger :)
[13:00:27] * Jan- runs away
[13:00:36] <Sgt_Lemming> no, not at all, it'll just throw you across the room and kill you before you leave the floor
[13:00:48] <OndraSter> :)
[13:00:57] <OndraSter> I have got here three CRT flybacks
[13:01:12] <OndraSter> Sgt_Lemming, you are using builtin RC oscillator?
[13:01:15] <Jan-> I s'pose compared to the cone shell it's pretty safe.
[13:01:23] <OndraSter> wait
[13:01:24] * RikusW got plenty of 8.5kV shocks....
[13:01:27] <Sgt_Lemming> no, using an external ceramic resonator
[13:01:30] <OndraSter> there are 3 pins with 16MHz
[13:01:32] <OndraSter> just noticed
[13:01:53] <Steffanx> Now we know why y ou are so weird RikusW ..
[13:02:00] <RikusW> fence energizer....
[13:02:14] <Sgt_Lemming> RikusW, I've taken a 15kV shock from hand to hand
[13:02:16] <Sgt_Lemming> that HURT
[13:02:27] <Sgt_Lemming> felt like I had been kicked in the chest
[13:02:35] <RikusW> yeah
[13:02:49] <RikusW> our gallagher energizer is 5 joules
[13:02:53] <Jan-> wasn't that a bit stupid really
[13:02:55] <Sgt_Lemming> Jacobs Ladder PSU using a car ignition coil
[13:02:59] <RikusW> 140us pulse width
[13:03:30] <RikusW> capacitive shock is more dangerous I think...
[13:03:35] <Sgt_Lemming> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-fxEZ3xgP <--- fun with high voltages
[13:03:38] <RikusW> lots of current....
[13:04:14] <Sgt_Lemming> RikusW, we have a 10KvDC 0.5µF pulse cap at HSBNE :-D
[13:04:28] <Sgt_Lemming> we *might* be getting 40 of them
[13:05:15] <Sgt_Lemming> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbcWEkzxmA8 <--- The green brick in this video
[13:05:29] <RikusW> I've heard of guys charging a cap to a few hundred volts and then throwing to an apprentice :-D
[13:05:37] <RikusW> catch !
[13:05:46] <OndraSter> haha
[13:05:47] <OndraSter> old joke
[13:05:53] <Sgt_Lemming> I've done it to someone, quite evil
[13:05:59] <OndraSter> we had at school (still have) some 800V high capacity cap
[13:06:03] <OndraSter> it weights about 10kg
[13:06:06] <OndraSter> about 1.2m high
[13:06:07] <Sgt_Lemming> we have some 400v 3300µF caps as well
[13:06:19] <OndraSter> well, one crazy teacher always charges it
[13:06:22] <OndraSter> and then shorts it
[13:06:23] <Sgt_Lemming> working on building a big cap bank
[13:07:05] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwmZLyYr70A
[13:09:41] * RikusW have a 30uF 1000V cap around
[13:09:50] <RikusW> pulse grade
[13:10:33] <RikusW> add a MOT + SCR and you have a fence energizer
[13:12:04] <CapnKernel> Living in a high-rainfall area, where the grass grows like crazy, we had a very powerful fence energiser
[13:12:28] <CapnKernel> There were several times where livestock died when they tried to get through the fence
[13:12:37] <CapnKernel> 30 second is about all it takes
[13:13:06] <RikusW> oooh
[13:13:13] <RikusW> 50 Joule ?
[13:14:25] <CapnKernel> Something like that.
[13:14:41] <CapnKernel> Would scorch the grass brown along the fenceline
[13:15:16] <Sgt_Lemming> CapnKernel, The Geek Group now has a new cap bank running
[13:15:22] <Sgt_Lemming> 6000 joule output
[13:15:33] <Sgt_Lemming> "stomper"
[13:16:20] <RikusW> CapnKernel: Ever touched it ? :-D
[13:16:23] <CapnKernel> You guys know CPR?
[13:16:28] <Sgt_Lemming> yes
[13:16:33] <OndraSter> Jan-, so, Invader Zim -- good?
[13:16:34] <CapnKernel> RikusW: Several times, and regularly.
[13:16:35] <OndraSter> just starting
[13:16:39] <OndraSter> first ep
[13:16:52] <CapnKernel> I had several nasty shocks off it, including one to the head one day
[13:16:58] <Sgt_Lemming> oooh, ouch
[13:17:01] <Sgt_Lemming> that woulda sucked
[13:17:03] <Sgt_Lemming> see stars?
[13:17:09] <RikusW> I bet it jogs your memory quickly...
[13:17:16] <CapnKernel> Knocked me out for about 20 mins, and headaches two weeks afterwards
[13:17:18] <Jan-> OndraSter: You have no possibleideawhat POWER you TOY with!
[13:17:39] <Jan-> I shall see to it that your PLASMA-BLEACHED BONES decoratethehallofthe VANQUISHED, you WORRRRM!
[13:17:43] * Jan- clenches a fist
[13:18:14] <CapnKernel> I'm lucky to be alive, as I was holding a metal pick, which was in the earth
[13:18:27] <CapnKernel> But there's another curious thing
[13:18:28] * vanquish perks up
[13:18:41] <CapnKernel> I was working on a part of the fence one day that I thought was disconnected
[13:18:42] <vanquish> someone decorating my hall?
[13:19:05] <CapnKernel> Yah, interior decorating your hall
[13:19:13] <vanquish> sweet. i love worms.
[13:19:23] <CapnKernel> I could feel a faint pulse in my fingers
[13:19:30] <CapnKernel> And I realised it was on
[13:19:36] <CapnKernel> And learned a really cool thing
[13:19:44] <RikusW> not good
[13:20:07] <CapnKernel> This requires that you are wearing what we call gum boots, which I think might be called wellingtons elsewhere
[13:20:13] <CapnKernel> Good insulators
[13:20:27] <RikusW> CapnKernel: so you live on a farm too ?
[13:20:30] <CapnKernel> The cool thing is that the amount of pulse you can feel in your fingers is related to how many fingers
[13:20:36] <CapnKernel> I did when I was young.
[13:20:45] <CapnKernel> The cool thing is that the relationship is inverse!
[13:21:05] <CapnKernel> As long as you're wearing the insulating boots, if you grab the wire with both hands, you won't feel a thing
[13:21:29] <CapnKernel> If you timidly touch it with the end of your finger, you'll get a nice zap and a hole in the end of your finger
[13:21:46] * Jan- doesn't want holes in her fingers
[13:22:06] <CapnKernel> If you can rest three fingers on the wire and your fingers twitch a little when the fence fires, the fence is up to snuff
[13:22:27] <CapnKernel> My theory, and I welcome comment, is that I was acting as a capacitor
[13:22:36] <CapnKernel> Somewhat leaky, either through the air, or through the boots
[13:22:47] <RikusW> I learned that firmly touching a piece of metal and then touching that to earth (or someone else ; ) you can discharge static without feeling a thing
[13:22:50] <CapnKernel> And each time the fence fired, it would recharge the me-capacitor
[13:23:06] <CapnKernel> So, a constant amount of charge transfer
[13:23:12] <RikusW> through boots I would think
[13:23:17] <CapnKernel> Could well be
[13:23:29] <CapnKernel> If you grab on with both hands, that constant charge is spread out over such a large area of skin that you don't feel it.
[13:23:43] <CapnKernel> Do the fingertip thing, and the charge is concentrated into quite a small area
[13:23:44] <RikusW> Do you know whats inside most energizers ?
[13:23:52] <RikusW> a cap + scr + transformer
[13:24:44] <CapnKernel> Yeah
[13:25:05] <CapnKernel> I found a very old fence energiser once that didn't even have that.
[13:25:14] <CapnKernel> It had a flywheel on an axis, and a spring.
[13:25:44] <RikusW> newer ones are low impedance
[13:25:53] <RikusW> I built one once
[13:26:04] <CapnKernel> The spring would force the flywheel to turn until a contact on the rim touched, which triggered the cap, and threw the flywheel back in the opposite direction
[13:26:09] <CapnKernel> A hardware oscillator
[13:26:34] <CapnKernel> Then the cycle would repeat. Rather cool really.
[13:26:47] <RikusW> how long does its contacts last ?...
[13:27:32] <CapnKernel> No idea but I'm thinking of the points in a car engine
[13:28:48] <CapnKernel> That open, thus breaking the 12V whatever amps current going through the coil. Field collapses and generates high voltage.
[13:29:21] <CapnKernel> And you can get many tens of thousands of miles out of a set of points, even though they're firing dozens of times a second.
[13:29:22] <Sgt_Lemming> oh that reminds me CapnKernel, I need some caps and diodes
[13:29:39] <Sgt_Lemming> 20kV rated diodes, and 20kV ceramic 1pF caps :-D
[13:29:52] <CapnKernel> Heehee, let's take it off line
[13:31:00] <RikusW> Sgt_Lemming: charge pump ?
[13:31:09] <RikusW> how high do you want to go ?!
[13:32:09] <Sgt_Lemming> RikusW, 250Kv would be nice :-D
[13:32:58] <RikusW> oooh
[13:33:13] <RikusW> to do what with ? BIG bang ?
[13:33:15] <Sgt_Lemming> I can already do about 14KvDC at 100mA or so
[13:33:19] <Sgt_Lemming> make sparks
[13:33:50] <Sgt_Lemming> working on a tesla coil slowly as well, 24KVA input :-D
[13:34:45] <Jan-> PIZZA HERE
[13:35:40] <RikusW> 24KVA ?!!
[13:35:44] <Sgt_Lemming> yes
[13:35:50] <RikusW> what for
[13:36:18] <RikusW> the transformer supplying the house here is only 25KVA....
[13:36:22] <RikusW> 3 phase
[13:36:38] <Sgt_Lemming> DRSSTC, 415v three phase input, rectified to 580vDV at 58A, using some 550A 1200v rated IGBT's to drive the primary coil
[13:36:41] <RikusW> want to make a radio jammer ?
[13:36:46] <Sgt_Lemming> 580vDC*
[13:37:23] <Sgt_Lemming> driving IGBT's are gonna be water cooled, as they will be handling 2000A pulses...
[13:37:38] <OndraSter> 2kA
[13:37:40] <OndraSter> sounds sexy
[13:37:56] <Sgt_Lemming> OndraSter, thegeekgroup has two cap banks that I would love to play with
[13:38:05] <Sgt_Lemming> one that does 1800v at 80'000A
[13:38:17] <Sgt_Lemming> and another that does 6000v at 300'000A...
[13:38:27] <OndraSter> o_O
[13:38:28] <OndraSter> O_o
[13:38:32] <Sgt_Lemming> 1'800'000 watt pulse
[13:38:34] <OndraSter> how long pulses? :)
[13:38:40] <Sgt_Lemming> 1'800'000'000 watt pulse even
[13:39:14] <Sgt_Lemming> first one is kinda slow, about 100ms, second one is iirc about 10uS
[13:39:25] <Sgt_Lemming> as it's three pulserated caps
[13:39:41] <Sgt_Lemming> they are using it to shrink a US quarter to about the size of a dime
[13:40:08] <Sgt_Lemming> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxWgqRA0868
[13:58:40] <CapnKernel> Good night everyone
[13:59:26] <amee2k> nighty night :)
[14:36:08] <dirty_d> arrrg
[14:36:15] <dirty_d> pulse width capture isnt working right
[14:53:54] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, you ever heard of pulse width capture results being way off?
[15:03:58] <rue_mohr> dirty_d,
[15:04:14] <rue_mohr> if you use the same timer to produce a tone, is it the right freq?
[15:04:51] <rue_mohr> I presume your capturing RC car pulses?
[15:05:11] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, is the cpu_freq set right in your code?
[15:05:32] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, are you using an internal or external oscillator?
[15:05:57] <rue_mohr> would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
[15:06:33] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, what avr are you using?
[15:06:43] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, could you post you code?
[15:07:57] <rue_mohr> if a train leaves brimmingham at 5pm and travels with a speed conforming to the first half of a sinusoidal wave with a peak speed of 200km/s what time would it arrive in vancouver canada?
[15:08:26] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, which timer are you using?
[15:08:57] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, are you running windows or linux?
[15:09:25] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, what is supplying the pulses?
[15:09:35] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, what voltage is your avr running on
[15:10:08] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, are you within 5km of a temporal anomoly?
[15:10:41] <rue_mohr> what would the internet be like if there were a search engine that acutally searched for what you ask for?
[15:11:25] <rue_mohr> whats the frequency and sequencing of this circuit?
[15:11:36] <rue_mohr> am I going to remember to shave today?
[15:11:45] <rue_mohr> when is my next appointment
[15:12:16] <rue_mohr> do nortel pbx's use internal T1 communications
[15:12:38] <rue_mohr> where do I get a 3/4" drill bit?
[15:12:48] <rue_mohr> am I too late to buy it now
[15:12:52] <rue_mohr> where is tom
[15:12:54] <rue_mohr> where is kat
[15:12:58] <rue_mohr> whats kat up to?
[15:13:16] <rue_mohr> is electronics a descent channel yet?
[15:16:32] <specing> rue_mohr: never has been and never will be
[15:18:36] <rue_mohr> heh
[15:22:03] <dirty_d> rue_mohr, i think i fixed it
[15:22:17] <dirty_d> i just wasnt using as high a counter overflow freq as i could have
[15:22:26] <dirty_d> measuring servo pulse width
[15:22:29] <dirty_d> they arrive at 50Hz
[15:22:41] <rue_mohr> their 1-2ms
[15:22:45] <rue_mohr> is whats important
[15:22:50] <rue_mohr> want to see my library?
[15:22:56] <OndraSter> hmm I just noticed
[15:22:56] <rue_mohr> or your good?
[15:22:58] <OndraSter> 22uF ceramic
[15:23:00] <OndraSter> are NOT cheap
[15:23:03] <dirty_d> but for pulse capture i can run it at 244Hz
[15:23:11] <dirty_d> because they only last for 2ms
[15:23:33] <dirty_d> it would be nice if i could get closer to 400Hz while still below it
[15:23:40] <rue_mohr> dirty_d, your overflow can occur at up to 500Hz
[15:23:48] <dirty_d> thats too fast
[15:23:51] <rue_mohr> 2ms = 500Hz
[15:23:56] <dirty_d> ill miss the other edge
[15:24:12] <dirty_d> is that safe?
[15:24:21] <rue_mohr> as long as your longest pulse is 2ms
[15:24:24] <dirty_d> i meant 500
[15:24:30] <rue_mohr> :)
[15:25:00] <dirty_d> oh derr
[15:25:12] <dirty_d> perfect
[15:25:36] <rue_mohr> there is ideal and there is what you can get with the clock freq your running
[15:25:38] <dirty_d> no prescaler is 488Hz
[15:25:39] <dirty_d> good safety margin
[15:25:42] <rue_mohr> how many bits you shooting for?
[15:25:53] <rue_mohr> sounds good
[15:28:12] <dirty_d> im using xmega
[15:28:25] <dirty_d> so 32000000 / 65535 gives me the 488hz
[15:28:26] <rue_mohr> I cant help with that
[15:28:56] <dirty_d> im liking this better than regular mega
[15:29:01] <dirty_d> very powerful
[15:29:08] <dirty_d> same price
[15:29:16] <rue_mohr> I use an intel for stuff that needs power
[15:29:32] <dirty_d> i mean more the peripherals
[15:29:35] <rue_mohr> a bit big, but their free and have lots of software support
[15:30:30] <dirty_d> i have it pretty much doin everything i need to already, and i havent even had to use the cpu yet
[15:30:42] <dirty_d> so i have 100% of the cpu time left for vector math and stuff
[15:33:34] <dirty_d> rue_mohr, what do you mean about intel? using a pc?
[15:33:48] <rue_mohr> no, just a motherboard
[15:34:57] <rue_mohr> 1Ghz, 64M of ram, 512M of flash, audio interface, keyboard interface, usb interface, parallel, serial,
[15:35:06] <rue_mohr> supports wifi, and wired ethernet
[15:35:12] <rue_mohr> runs linux, programmable in C
[15:35:17] <rue_mohr> FREE MAN!
[15:35:29] <rue_mohr> show me your microcontroller that compares to that!
[15:37:09] <madsy> rue_mohr: Try a Sheevaplug :)
[15:37:33] <rue_mohr> FFFFFRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....
[15:37:49] <madsy> Besides, x86 as a architecture is horrible for development.
[15:37:59] <madsy> I don't wish it on my worst enemy.
[15:38:03] <rue_mohr> hu?
[15:38:15] <rue_mohr> hows that?
[15:38:28] <rue_mohr> there are tonnes of compilers and debuggers
[15:38:29] <OndraSter> rue_mohr, to get some GPIOs, some UARTs, some SPIs
[15:38:32] <OndraSter> how do you get those?
[15:38:44] <rue_mohr> parallel port, serial port, and video port
[15:38:56] <OndraSter> SPI, GPIO, I2C?
[15:39:03] <madsy> rue_mohr: Of course. It's just that it's ugly. Tainted by 30 years of legacy.
[15:39:58] <cyanide> having issues with avr studio extension manager
[15:40:00] <cyanide> 5.0
[15:40:18] <cyanide> "An error occured while trying to contact the server"
[15:40:20] <cyanide> help?
[15:40:21] <dirty_d> rue_mohr, thats a big heavy for my needs lol
[15:40:37] <dirty_d> im building a quadcopter
[15:41:07] <dirty_d> and by heavy i dont mean mass, because its going to lift 20 pounds, lol
[15:41:44] <rue_mohr> I build big robots
[15:41:49] <dirty_d> ahh
[15:42:00] <rue_mohr> the new one is slated to be 12'
[15:42:29] <cyanide> anyone?
[15:43:09] <dirty_d> rue_mohr, thats like a tank
[15:43:37] <rue_mohr> not when its standing up
[15:44:13] <dirty_d> what will it do?
[15:46:11] <OndraSter> kick people from night clubs
[15:46:57] <dirty_d> lol
[15:56:25] <jadew> hey guys, can you get higher pwm resolution than 8 bits from an 8bit timer?
[16:07:47] <OndraSter> wow, dual P-channel MOSFETs in SO8 package
[16:07:52] <OndraSter> for 4 CZK?
[16:07:59] <OndraSter> ($0.2)
[16:08:06] <OndraSter> 3.5A, pulse 14A
[16:13:14] <dirty_d> yea if you do it in software
[16:13:15] <dirty_d> but then you cant really do anything else
[16:15:08] <dirty_d> jadew, what frequency do you need?
[16:19:19] <jadew> dirty_d, don't know yet
[16:19:42] <jadew> I want to get a constant voltage out, so something I can convert with a pasive rc filter
[16:25:09] <dirty_d> jadew, what else does the avr have to do?
[16:25:51] <jadew> you're thinking about needing other interrupts, I guess it would need them
[16:26:06] <jadew> some PCINTs
[16:26:10] <dirty_d> then it wouldnt really work very well to do it in software
[16:26:15] <dirty_d> no 16 bit timer you can use?
[16:26:23] <jadew> yeah, but I need 4
[16:26:41] <dirty_d> what uc are you using?
[16:27:18] <jadew> 2313
[16:27:27] <dirty_d> considered xmega?
[16:27:40] <jadew> no, never tried those
[16:27:45] <jadew> the other option is mega8
[16:27:48] <dirty_d> the one im trying out is $5 and it has 16 16-bit pwm channels
[16:27:56] <jadew> nice
[16:28:26] <dirty_d> yea, no harder to use just takes getting used to since its different
[16:28:50] <OndraSter> wat, xmega for $5?
[16:29:00] <dirty_d> atxmega32a4u
[16:29:09] <dirty_d> the new fixed type
[16:29:25] <dirty_d> $3.70 if you buy 10 or more
[16:29:38] <OndraSter> hmm not bad
[16:29:48] <jadew> that's a lot of power for what I need to do
[16:29:50] <dirty_d> yea, i dont really have any reason to ever use a regular mega
[16:29:57] <dirty_d> its the same price
[16:29:57] <cyanide> can i have the pin change interrupts only work on one edge? as in either rising edge or falling edge?
[16:30:01] <dirty_d> and can do way more
[16:30:15] <dirty_d> cyanide, only on xmega
[16:30:23] <dirty_d> lol
[16:30:27] <dirty_d> i feel like a salesman
[16:30:38] <cyanide> hmm?
[16:30:41] <OndraSter> altho, 32kB flash is not much
[16:30:46] <cyanide> what are these xmegas?
[16:30:47] <OndraSter> I'd rather go with 64kB
[16:30:53] <OndraSter> and prices at 64kB get higher
[16:30:53] <dirty_d> cyanide, you have to use the INT0/INT1 interrupt if you want rising or falling not both
[16:31:01] <OndraSter> cyanide, xmega = updated mega
[16:31:02] <cyanide> dirty_d, i know
[16:31:03] <OndraSter> more features
[16:31:06] <dirty_d> OndraSter, its not much more
[16:31:15] <cyanide> i wish to use about 6-8 interrupts in my circuit
[16:31:29] <cyanide> so im using the pcint interrupts as well
[16:31:31] <dirty_d> cyanide, i think youre only choice is to check if the pin is high or low in the isr
[16:31:48] <OndraSter> ATXmega64A3 is not much
[16:31:50] <cyanide> yeah, thats the hack im using right now
[16:31:53] <OndraSter> huh
[16:32:00] <OndraSter> A4 is exactly the same as atxmega32A4
[16:32:12] <cyanide> im using a counter and checking pin status
[16:32:13] <dirty_d> hmm?
[16:32:13] <OndraSter> now, what do all of them differ in
[16:32:19] <jadew> how are those knobs that you can turn around how many times you want, called?
[16:32:20] <dirty_d> OndraSter, im not sure
[16:32:29] <cyanide> rotary encoder
[16:32:29] <dirty_d> i dunno what the numbers mean
[16:32:33] <jadew> thank you
[16:32:36] <cyanide> np
[16:32:42] <dirty_d> i think it has to do with how many pins, i.e. how many of each peripheral etc
[16:32:45] <cyanide> wow. i helped someone
[16:32:46] <cyanide> lol
[16:32:51] <jadew> heh
[16:32:57] <cyanide> im an ape
[16:33:00] <OndraSter> 32MHz @ 2.7V
[16:33:05] <dirty_d> yea
[16:33:10] <dirty_d> im using 32MHz at 3.3v
[16:33:21] <OndraSter> 3.6V must be doing like 46MHz stable :P
[16:33:28] <dirty_d> i think you can overclock with PLL too
[16:33:28] <cyanide> these xmegas run at 32mhz?
[16:33:31] <OndraSter> ye
[16:33:34] <dirty_d> but i dunno if it will work
[16:33:36] <cyanide> nice
[16:33:45] <cyanide> ill check out the datasheet
[16:33:45] <dirty_d> cyanide, theyre very nice
[16:34:03] <cyanide> whats the 3.7 usd mcu called?
[16:34:05] <dirty_d> cyanide, im finding the documentation isnt as good though
[16:34:06] <cyanide> 32a4u?
[16:34:08] <cyanide> ok
[16:34:11] <dirty_d> cyanide, yea on mouse
[16:34:13] <cyanide> ill still go through it
[16:34:13] <dirty_d> mouser
[16:34:14] <cyanide> ok brb
[16:34:28] <OndraSter> WHY haven't I used these
[16:34:30] <dirty_d> but that in >10 quantity
[16:34:32] <OndraSter> instead the mega128a
[16:34:42] <OndraSter> or wait
[16:34:43] <dirty_d> OndraSter, they used to have lots of bugs i guess
[16:34:44] <OndraSter> no xmem?
[16:34:52] <dirty_d> but its all been fixed in the models that end in U
[16:34:57] <cyanide> nice, just 44 pins lol
[16:35:15] <dirty_d> cyanide, its not as bad as you think, lol
[16:35:20] <dirty_d> i soldered it by hand no problem
[16:36:01] <cyanide> wow nice. this thing is loaded
[16:36:12] <cyanide> dirty_d, i solder tqfp-100 regularly lol
[16:36:17] <cyanide> im actually happy
[16:36:47] <cyanide> 5 16bit timers, usb, lower voltage, etc
[16:37:15] <OndraSter> o_O
[16:37:16] <OndraSter> O_o
[16:37:18] <OndraSter> xmem itnerface?
[16:37:24] <OndraSter> I know that some of these xmegas have that
[16:37:30] <OndraSter> with 16MB somehow addressable space
[16:37:36] <cyanide> xmen interface lol
[16:37:48] <cyanide> they can interface with shitty movies
[16:38:15] <OndraSter> lol
[16:39:11] <cyanide> nice, external interrupts on all gpio pins
[16:39:14] <OndraSter> cool
[16:39:17] <OndraSter> the EBI can also do SDRAM
[16:39:52] <cyanide> must request a sample
[16:40:42] <Steffanx> Samples and Atmel...
[16:41:06] <OndraSter> heh
[16:41:08] <OndraSter> impossible
[16:41:25] <cyanide> they dont give out samples?
[16:42:36] <Steffanx> Not as easy as TI or maxim afaik
[16:42:58] <cyanide> i sent a request.
[16:43:01] <cyanide> let's see...
[16:43:05] <OndraSter> craptastic
[16:43:09] <OndraSter> there are TWO xmegas with EBI
[16:43:13] <OndraSter> and BOTH don't have USB
[16:43:16] <OndraSter> so it is either EBI or USB
[16:43:17] <OndraSter> how awesome
[16:43:33] <OndraSter> Dear Atmel.
[16:44:20] <Steffanx> Bug abcminiuser :P
[16:44:41] <Steffanx> Anyway, forget about xmega, go ARM :P
[16:44:52] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, Dear Atmel, why do you put EITHER EBI OR USB into xmegas?
[16:44:57] <OndraSter> it defeats the purpose :(
[16:45:01] <OndraSter> Steffanx, I want to go ARM
[16:45:15] <OndraSter> but I doubt I will be able to use RiffBox with common STM32 or any other ARM
[16:45:20] <OndraSter> from outside phone
[16:45:29] <Steffanx> Whatever riffbox is
[16:45:37] <OndraSter> JTAG for ARM phones
[16:46:53] <dirty_d> Steffanx, arm makes things like avrs?
[16:47:05] <OndraSter> ARM makes more than AVR
[16:47:12] <OndraSter> plus it is JvN
[16:47:14] <dirty_d> well i mean something easy to use
[16:47:16] <OndraSter> and not Harvard
[16:47:19] <dirty_d> with cheap programming tools etc
[16:47:23] <OndraSter> ARM itself is just spec
[16:47:26] <dirty_d> and lots of handy peripherals
[16:47:28] <OndraSter> Wiggler :P
[16:47:28] <dirty_d> oh
[16:47:37] <OndraSter> ARM itself is also company
[16:47:42] <OndraSter> who creates the ARM cores
[16:47:45] <OndraSter> and sells them to partners
[16:47:51] <OndraSter> as Atmel, Qualcomm, ...
[16:48:01] <Steffanx> ST, NXP :P
[16:48:09] <Steffanx> etc. etc.
[16:48:10] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:48:54] <Steffanx> dirty_d .. lots of peripherals: Check; Easy enough to use: Check; Cheap programming tools: Check; :)
[16:49:54] <OndraSter> xmega:
[16:49:58] <OndraSter> 16 PWM channels
[16:50:01] <OndraSter> USB
[16:50:06] <OndraSter> bazilion of SPI
[16:50:08] <OndraSter> bazilion of UART
[16:50:11] <OndraSter> DMA
[16:50:14] <OndraSter> event subsystem
[16:50:18] <OndraSter> and what not
[16:50:23] <OndraSter> for $6
[16:51:18] <specing> ARM: lots of PWM, USB OTG, bazilion of SPI and UART, DMA, MMU, hundreds of Mhz, $5+
[16:51:23] <Steffanx> :P
[16:51:32] <OndraSter> :D
[16:51:38] <OndraSter> but those spec
[16:51:41] <OndraSter> how much is CPU with that
[16:51:50] <OndraSter> and 32 - 64kB flash + 4kB RAM
[16:51:53] <specing> fuck xmega, ARM can run Linux
[16:51:56] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:52:05] <rue_shop2> specing, lanugage eh?
[16:52:07] <rue_shop2> but yea
[16:52:12] <Steffanx> The simple cortex-m3 uc's cant..
[16:52:18] <OndraSter> why?
[16:52:55] <specing> The most suckish ARM I have is an AT91SAM9260 (atmel!) running Linux at 200Mhz
[16:53:17] <dirty_d> thats all not really a good comparison
[16:53:18] <dirty_d> xmega is just s step above a mega
[16:53:26] <dirty_d> its for the same type of application
[16:53:30] <dirty_d> it can just do more
[16:53:33] <specing> I guess the best advantage is power consumption
[16:53:37] <Steffanx> I think it's better to compare xmega with cortex-m0-4
[16:53:49] <specing> but power is plentifull here, so ;D
[16:54:16] <dirty_d> Steffanx, do you have a model # i can look at im curious
[16:54:29] <dirty_d> oh, is that what you were talking about?
[16:54:57] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, ATXMEGA128A1U
[16:55:02] <abcminiuser_> USB, EBI
[16:55:05] <OndraSter> EBI?
[16:55:28] <OndraSter> EBI, yes
[16:55:30] <OndraSter> USB? no
[16:55:36] <OndraSter> or at least your website
[16:55:36] <OndraSter> says so
[16:55:38] <abcminiuser_> A1***U***
[16:55:42] <Steffanx> abcminiuser_ you just told us about a non existant xmega?
[16:55:44] <OndraSter> oh
[16:55:51] <dirty_d> abcminiuser_, you were right, i do love using xmega over mega now, lol
[16:55:53] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, it's declassified
[16:55:54] <OndraSter> that one is not on website
[16:56:05] <Steffanx> Indeed, atmel doesn't list it
[16:56:05] <abcminiuser_> Since it's available for ordering
[16:56:14] <OndraSter> darn you atmel lol
[16:56:22] <OndraSter> sell us nonexisting devices on your website
[16:56:46] <Steffanx> but they do have documents about it.. lol
[16:56:47] <abcminiuser_> http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Microcontroller/Atmel/ATXMEGA128A1U-CU/_/R-5000526200151/A-5000526200151/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201
[16:57:06] <Steffanx> No datasheet..
[16:57:16] <OndraSter> 8 week
[16:57:18] <abcminiuser_> Not public yet, still in final QA
[16:57:20] <dirty_d> i thought i already read a datasheet for that one
[16:57:25] <dirty_d> maybe not
[16:57:34] <dirty_d> it was on mouser
[16:57:35] <OndraSter> I think I will pass
[16:57:39] <Steffanx> So it doesn't exist yet :P
[16:57:40] <OndraSter> and go for ARM.
[16:57:51] <OndraSter> sure I got Dragon now
[17:00:19] <Steffanx> rue_ shop2 has a special highlighting on bad word? ( fuck )
[17:00:25] <Steffanx> *words
[17:00:37] <dirty_d> Steffanx, inst this cortex m4 more like an avr32?
[17:01:13] <Steffanx> Yeah, maybe… but than you can't compare the xmega with anything :P
[17:01:30] <dirty_d> xmega = mega pretty much with better peripherals and slightly higher clock
[17:02:01] <OndraSter> yeah
[17:02:06] <OndraSter> and the price seems now a bit more... worth it
[17:02:23] <Steffanx> Not for me :P
[17:16:40] <buhman> what happens you try to program a controller with 128k flash with the usbtinyisp?
[17:16:53] <buhman> it says it "does not work"; but I was wondering what that meant, and why
[17:18:18] <buhman> also I wanted to test my current ISP; how would I generate 128k zeros of intel hex?
[17:18:55] <Casper> 3 things could happends
[17:19:04] <Casper> 1) the tiny just refuse
[17:19:14] <Casper> 2) the address isn'T recognised
[17:19:44] <Casper> 3) it strip the upper address, so you will rollback the address at a certain point (at >64k?)
[17:22:05] <buhman> apparently you can't even address >64k in intel hex format normally (or at least that's what I gather reading about the format)
[17:25:32] <Steffanx> tobbor :D
[17:26:40] <buhman> either that or it doesn't support anything but the first two record types
[17:26:50] <buhman> and not 32-bit addressing
[18:02:24] <amee2k> are the "diagonal size" figures for LCD panels accurate when considering just the panel?
[18:03:16] <amee2k> i.e. a 10.1" panel actually has an active area that measures 10.1" (or 257mm) across the diagonal
[18:04:06] <amee2k> i'm trying to derieve DPI figures for some panels i'm looking at and the product page doesn't have figures on the active are. only rated diagonal size and resolution
[18:05:47] <Casper> yes and no
[18:05:57] <Casper> as with all specs, lots of manufacturer lie
[18:06:19] <Casper> also, you have to consider that some are 4:3, 16:10 or 16:9
[18:07:17] <amee2k> i'd be quite surprised if there are any computer displays with pixel aspect ratios different from 1:1
[18:07:46] <amee2k> so the resolution should tell the aspect of the active area
[18:08:02] <OndraSter> huh?
[18:08:03] <OndraSter> what did I miss
[18:08:22] <Casper> yeah
[18:08:24] <Casper> however
[18:08:26] <Casper> beware
[18:08:39] <Casper> don't use the current selected resolution
[18:08:49] <Casper> lots of persons use non-widescreen resolution
[18:08:55] <Casper> on widescreen monitor
[18:08:58] <OndraSter> yeah
[18:08:59] <amee2k> well, actually i want to select a display by DPI
[18:09:06] <OndraSter> and it drives me nuts every time I am supposed to work with that PC
[18:09:09] <Casper> resulting in stretched image
[18:09:15] <OndraSter> exactly because of that
[18:09:21] <amee2k> i'm looking for 150-200dpi absolute minimum
[18:09:30] <amee2k> 250 or higher would be ideal
[18:09:33] <OndraSter> DPI is nothing without PPI
[18:11:08] <Casper> is it to buy a monitor? or for a software?
[18:11:56] <OndraSter> I am happy with my 12.1" 1400x1050 at school :)
[18:12:08] <OndraSter> screw 16:9 and 1366x768 lol
[18:12:32] <Casper> you know what's funny?
[18:12:38] <OndraSter> no
[18:12:45] <Casper> "I want a 12" laptop with full hd monitor"
[18:12:52] <OndraSter> I got as far as possible :(
[18:12:57] <amee2k> OndraSter: "PPI"?
[18:13:03] <Casper> ... as if they would see the difference between sd and full hd...
[18:13:28] <keenerd> I would notice if I was using a 640x480 SD monitor on my laptop.
[18:13:49] <OndraSter> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density
[18:14:32] <OndraSter> Casper, if you are working with it, you can see it
[18:14:39] <OndraSter> even 1024x768 on 12" is driving me nuts
[18:14:42] <OndraSter> now
[18:14:51] <OndraSter> and I can utilize the space better
[18:14:53] <OndraSter> on screen
[18:14:57] <OndraSter> when working
[18:16:25] <amee2k> whats the semantic difference between DPI and PPI?
[18:16:37] <amee2k> i've been treating a pixel and a dot as interchangable
[18:16:43] <keenerd> Actually 320x240 can be not too bad... http://kmkeen.com/tmp/2011-12-01-104112_1366x768_scrot.png
[18:17:30] <amee2k> i mean, a pixel is really three dots, one for each color channel
[18:19:19] <amee2k> but they're not square and more or less overlap each other so i'm not really counting that as resolution as such
[18:49:30] <jadew> after putting the timer in PWM mode, do I have to do anything else in order to get the data out?
[18:49:34] <jadew> cuz it seems to fail
[18:49:43] <jadew> I get nothing
[18:50:02] <Casper> set the pin to output?
[18:50:09] <amee2k> set one of the output pins up?
[18:50:12] <Casper> and set the prescaller?
[18:50:20] <OndraSter> set all the related registers
[18:50:22] <OndraSter> :P
[18:50:30] <OndraSter> better said
[18:50:53] <amee2k> you need a clock source (CS), waveform generation mode (WGM) and one or more of the output pins (i don't remember the bit names)
[18:51:13] <jadew> I have the output pins set
[18:51:14] <amee2k> well, you need to set one of the OCR registers to some value that will produce non-flatline output too
[18:51:27] <jadew> did that as well
[18:51:50] <amee2k> clock source set up correctly too?
[18:52:11] <amee2k> (make a quick calculation on the expected PWM frequency to see if it is reasonable for your application)
[18:52:16] <jadew> hold on, this time I think I messed something up, I'll get back to you in a minute
[18:52:23] <jadew> last time it was properly set up and still didn't work
[18:52:29] <jadew> so I tried with a different timer
[18:52:35] <jadew> brb 2 min
[18:52:57] <amee2k> also check if you're taking the output off the right pin ;)
[18:53:29] <Tom_itx> check my pwm tutorial
[18:54:01] <amee2k> i'm off to bed now
[18:54:05] <Tom_itx> aww
[18:54:08] <Tom_itx> the night is young
[18:54:12] <Tom_itx> and it's the weekend
[18:54:31] <OndraSter> bb amee2k
[18:54:33] <OndraSter> haha
[18:54:36] <OndraSter> it is cold outside!
[18:54:53] <jadew> oh there it is, it's working
[18:56:19] <amee2k> its 1:40 here and the last few days i didn't get to bed until *well* past 3:30
[18:56:34] <Tom_itx> so you got a couple hrs left right?
[18:56:38] <amee2k> i want to get my sleep cycle back to where it used to be
[18:57:10] <amee2k> maybe i'll watch another x-files ep. i don't think i can sleep yet anyway
[18:58:30] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:05:35] <jadew> ok, this is weird, why wouldn't I get a 0 if I set the OCR register to 0?
[19:05:51] <jadew> it still "beats" once
[19:11:45] <jadew> so I've set it for fast pwm, 10 bits, non inverting
[19:11:50] <jadew> OCR is set to 0
[19:11:54] <jadew> and I still get a spike
[19:12:31] <jadew> I should get a flat line, right?
[19:19:05] <amee2k> jadew: hmm check the datasheet... i remember that some PWM modes will always produce a small spike even when set to 0 which is perfectly normal
[19:19:41] <jadew> I see
[19:19:48] <jadew> tried different modes too
[19:19:51] <jadew> same result
[19:19:51] <amee2k> the suggested fix is disabling the output channel in the control register when setting the ocr value to 0 as a special case
[19:20:11] <jadew> good idea
[19:20:37] <amee2k> good idea to wrap it into a function like pwm_set() or something
[19:20:45] <jadew> yeah
[19:23:02] <jadew> actually, I think the way you would do it is set it to value - 1
[19:23:16] <jadew> and killing the output when the value is 0
[19:23:31] <jadew> so you won't have 0, 2, 3 etc
[19:24:02] <amee2k> yeah, that was the general idea
[19:24:28] <amee2k> specially since the residual spike at OCR value 0 is only one MCU clock or so and yields ridiculously low duty cycle anyway
[19:25:05] <amee2k> wtf... 2k EUR for an IBM TS2250 tape drive 0.0
[19:26:04] <jadew> amee2k, on my MCU it looks like that spike is the exact same size with what I get for 1 increment of OCR
[19:28:14] <amee2k> hmm okay