#avr | Logs for 2012-02-03

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[00:34:06] <Tekno> Scope n00b here why when I ground my scope to the breadboard ground does the AVR seem to lockup?
[00:34:43] <Tekno> simple blink going on
[00:35:20] <Tekno> ground to scope led either stays on or off what ever it was in
[00:39:26] <theBear> sounds like a bad ground loop.... try measuring dc and ac volts between the unconnected gnds
[00:41:10] <Tekno> someone told me something about removing the ground pin from ac plug so you isolate the ground to your project is that related to this
[00:42:09] <Tekno> are you supposed to ground the scope probe to your project?
[01:29:09] <theBear> well... USUALLY it's a bad idea to remove grounds from ac plugs... in this case you MIGHT get away without using the scope ground clip, because (as i suspect) you already have a gnd reference from elsewhere
[01:35:01] <ziph> Err, the earth pin on the AC plug is for safely.
[02:07:59] <theBear> what he said.. if yer asking questions about taking it off, you're definately not qualified to be sure if it's gonna be safe or not after that
[02:25:42] <grummund> question is why is the project not floating in the first place
[02:26:55] <grummund> placing a ground on the project shouldn't affect it ordinarilly
[02:29:16] <grummund> but also be aware that the grounds of each scope channel are *connected* *together*
[02:29:56] <grummund> so only use gnd from one channel at a time, or connect them all to the same place.
[02:41:57] <theBear> mmm... generally it's best not to connect a scope gnd to anything other than "circuit ground" unless you are quite sure everything is nice and floated from each other
[03:33:04] <lovre> hi all
[03:33:20] <Sgt_Lemming> evening all, went and looked at potential new hackerspace building today. Turns out we might be getting 3 buildings :-D
[03:33:58] <lovre> i cant find info online about code section pragmas? In ARM its #pragma arm section [section_type_list]... Not quite sure what it is
[03:34:02] <lovre> any ideas?
[03:34:15] <lovre> this link describes it, but not quite detailed: http://www.keil.com/support/man/docs/armccref/armccref_BCFJBABB.htm
[03:36:19] <karlp> lovre, presuming you mean for gcc? and presuming further for avr? it's all in the avr-libc docs.
[03:37:12] <lovre> karlp: i was meaning more in general, whats it all about? If for avr, where can i find it, and what pragma is it for avr?*
[03:38:03] <karlp> it's like the number 1 and 2 result for "gcc code section" on google....
[03:38:30] <karlp> looks like keil even supports gcc syntax
[03:38:49] <lovre> karlp: ok sorry, i feel stupid now. I searched for "pragma code_section" and didnt get much results... thanks :D
[04:08:23] <Tekno> I just didnt connect the ground on the probe seemed okay that way
[04:10:14] <Tekno> if you have a pololu driver A1-B1 A2-B2 to your stepper coils what do you expect to see on the scope when you prope one of the coils with the scope?
[04:57:43] <theBear> stepper driver in general you would expect a square wave, maybe going 2 directions alternately, maybe just one depending on the kind of stepper and drive mode.... a fancy driver might be pwm or even something more sine-like but same kinda pattern
[04:58:34] <theBear> ang on, you wouldn't wanna gnd your scope probe to an ouput, you know that right ?
[04:59:03] <theBear> but if it works fine without the gnd, then you've already got a gnd somehow thru something else
[04:59:27] <theBear> and so long as that doesn't cause all kinds of waviness and stupidness on the scope, that's just fine for all but the most acurate measurements
[05:03:59] <Johnny_Giggles> Hi everyone. What's the most RAM that any AVR 8 bit CPU has?
[05:04:07] <Johnny_Giggles> I mean volatile RAM on-die
[05:04:22] <karlp> atmel.com -> parametric table....
[05:04:51] <OndraSter> 8kB IIRC
[05:05:02] <OndraSter> you can use external RAM with the newer ones
[05:05:32] <Johnny_Giggles> I remember when my whole computer had 32 kilobytes
[05:05:34] <theBear> and if you got a 'special' need you can always hack something on there and access it soft-wise
[05:06:23] <OndraSter> soft-only external RAM is not the easiest solution, using atmega with XMEM already in it is easier and more reliable :)
[05:06:31] <OndraSter> with 0 code overhaul
[05:06:34] <OndraSter> (unless you do bank switching)
[05:06:39] <ElMonkey> ATmega1284 has 16k RAM
[05:06:44] <Johnny_Giggles> 8 kilobytes is enough for most things
[05:07:28] <Johnny_Giggles> AVR architecture is way cool
[05:07:45] <theBear> it sure gives me a golf pencil in my pants :)
[05:07:51] <OndraSter> :D
[05:08:23] <theBear> and any minute now i should have a shiny new toolchain all ready to turn c into something that runs on that architecture !
[05:28:05] <Studioeng> finally got my t2313 to work with LCD and USB :D
[05:28:41] <Steffanx> That vusb stuff?
[05:28:44] <Studioeng> yeah
[05:30:11] <Studioeng> now i need to figure out how to make it work with lcdsmartie
[06:21:39] <theBear> avr-gcc (Gentoo 4.5.3-r2 p1.0, pie-0.4.7) 4.5.3 oooooh.... shiny and new
[06:23:10] <Steffanx> :)
[06:29:30] <OndraSter> theBear, can it now make a sandwich?
[06:31:57] <amee2k> i'm not buying until they add support for coffee and for pizza *nod*
[06:32:14] <Steffanx> No beer?
[06:32:20] <amee2k> beer is disgusting
[06:32:50] <OndraSter> DUDE
[06:32:55] <OndraSter> how can you say it
[06:32:57] <OndraSter> and be German
[06:32:59] <OndraSter> Oktoberfest?
[06:33:12] <amee2k> Oktoberfest is a mess?
[06:33:23] <OndraSter> Oktoberfest is about a beer
[06:33:28] <OndraSter> and it is GERMAN :P
[06:33:33] <Steffanx> amee2k isn't a real German
[06:33:55] <amee2k> Oktoberfest is a huge pile of drunk tourists who pay a ridiculous amount of money for bad beer and half-done chickens
[06:34:04] <OndraSter> hehe
[06:34:38] <amee2k> i grew up in munich, what noone knows is that very few local people still actually go there
[06:35:03] <ziph> To Munich? :)
[06:35:12] <amee2k> to the oktoberfest
[06:35:34] <ziph> Can't be much of a city if the local's won't even go there. :)
[06:35:46] <amee2k> i used to go there for cheap screwdrivers but it got too expensive
[06:36:04] <amee2k> can't be much of a fest anymore
[06:36:57] <amee2k> its a tourist attraction for the most part
[07:01:17] <Studioeng> i went to Munich about 9 years ago, about 2 weeks after the Oktoberfest
[07:01:28] <Studioeng> the beer is a damn sight cheaper than in the UK
[07:02:10] <Studioeng> it had to be the best time to go, it was quieter but people were still really jolly and friendly
[07:03:25] <amee2k> i heard last year beer price was 9EUR/liter
[07:03:53] <Studioeng> bloody hell
[07:04:14] <Studioeng> i was just over a 1EUR for a litre if I remember rightly
[07:04:33] <amee2k> you can get a crate with hmm 12 x 0.5l of actually decent beer for under 15EUR
[07:04:33] <Studioeng> seeing as we get pints in UK, it was more for much much less
[07:05:00] <Studioeng> from local fuel stations :D
[07:05:15] <amee2k> from pretty much every store that sells beer
[07:05:19] <Studioeng> don't you get some small amount back ?
[07:05:24] <ElMonkey> the UK is most expensive for beers indeed
[07:05:30] <Studioeng> when you return the glass bottles
[07:05:31] <ElMonkey> and everything else, too ;)
[07:05:35] <amee2k> yeah, if you drink too much you throw some back up :P
[07:05:36] <dirty_d> brew your own beer, its super cheap and superior
[07:05:47] * CapnKernel likes brewing his own beer
[07:05:57] <dirty_d> i havent in a while
[07:05:59] <CapnKernel> I have brought kits to China for my hacker friends, they love it too
[07:06:02] <dirty_d> i need to though
[07:06:27] <CapnKernel> The beer here is cheaper than one can do from a kit, so that's not a reason here.
[07:06:28] <amee2k> bottle deposit is usually not included in the price marking because it is assumed that you do return your bottles
[07:07:39] <CapnKernel> But it's still fun.
[07:08:08] <amee2k> so you'd find a hypothetical beer labeled at the store as something like: ***15EUR (crate)*** (12x 1.30EUR; deposit: 12x0.08EUR = 0.96EUR)
[07:08:14] <CapnKernel> I want to make me one of these: http://www.ospid.com/blog/
[07:08:29] <amee2k> lots of stores also put the total price including deposit somewhere on the side of the label
[07:08:42] <amee2k> i can make some pics when i go shopping this afternoon
[07:10:45] <dirty_d> really? i made 15 gallons of beer for like maybe $20
[07:10:56] <dirty_d> thats about 150 bottles of beer
[07:11:49] <dirty_d> but i made it from grain
[07:13:11] <CapnKernel> I'd like to do that, but I don't have the time or the space :-(
[07:14:08] <dirty_d> yea i dont either anymore
[07:14:13] <dirty_d> no back yard
[07:15:40] <CapnKernel> I sleep on the floor of a 30 sq m apartment with 3 other guys.
[07:16:06] <amee2k> sounds just like a student flat share >_>
[07:16:12] <CapnKernel> More or less
[07:16:21] <CapnKernel> Company dorm
[07:16:27] <dirty_d> lol
[07:16:35] <amee2k> i wish i had more space in the flat share here too :(
[07:17:07] <CapnKernel> In spite of this I feel very lucky
[07:17:33] <CapnKernel> brb
[07:32:21] <Steffanx> Replace that LCD with a 128x96px CoG Display CapnKernel :)
[07:33:03] <CapnKernel> Yep
[07:36:46] <OndraSter> I want one of those sharp memory LCDs
[07:38:37] <CapnKernel> That would be nice.
[07:40:11] <Steffanx> Or one of those
[07:42:44] <Studioeng> generally, is it possible to take two faulty dvd-rom drives and make 1 good one? i think has a knackard laser, the other has a burnt out controller board
[07:42:59] <Studioeng> they are identical drives
[08:33:26] <dirty_d> hmm archlinux's avr-gcc and avr-libc dont have xmega support
[08:33:29] <dirty_d> this should be fun
[08:35:42] <amee2k> mmmarch....
[08:36:06] <karlp> I thought arch was gentoosesq, in that it always the latest and greatest, regardless of stability?
[08:36:27] <karlp> I know arch's gcc is newer than most other distros, surprising that their avr tools are older.
[08:36:28] <amee2k> last time i checked arch was like gentoo turned usable
[08:36:28] <dirty_d> it does, thats the problem
[08:36:42] <dirty_d> the newest avr-gcc doesnt support xmega for some reason
[08:36:46] <dirty_d> so im building an older one
[08:37:00] <dirty_d> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/25798
[08:37:54] * amee2k idly pulses impulse32
[08:38:11] <amee2k> by that, i mean Hi!
[08:38:22] <impulse32> ow
[08:38:27] <impulse32> hello
[08:38:27] <amee2k> \o/
[08:39:14] * specing is happy on Gentoo
[08:39:39] <impulse32> metoo
[08:39:44] <amee2k> i see that the BDSM community is represented here as well
[08:39:57] <impulse32> lol what
[08:39:58] <impulse32> why?
[08:40:02] * karlp waves his black and blue flag
[08:40:04] <amee2k> just a hunch
[08:40:43] <amee2k> well, not that the practices of some debian people are /that/ much less painful sometimes, but still
[08:42:08] <impulse32> meh
[08:43:21] <specing> debian sucks :D
[08:43:42] <amee2k> thats what she said too
[08:44:02] <ziph> Hmm, I'm using 4 USB ports just for this test set up..
[08:44:03] <specing> ... before she dumped you :D
[08:45:47] <dirty_d> ahh crap, build failed
[08:48:11] <amee2k> hmm in assembly, how do i quickly load a constant value (symbol address) into the Z register?
[08:48:23] <amee2k> nothing better than two LDIs?
[08:49:11] <dirty_d> i dont know avr asm at all
[08:49:15] <dirty_d> i should learn
[08:54:49] <OndraSter> amee2k, nope, only two LDIs
[08:54:56] <OndraSter> that's not fast enough? :D
[08:55:38] <amee2k> its another two cycles gone down the drain :/
[08:56:09] <dirty_d> amee2k, whats this your making?
[08:56:22] <amee2k> o.O
[08:56:29] <amee2k> the servo motor thing?
[08:56:35] <dirty_d> whats it for though
[08:56:36] <dirty_d> yea
[08:56:51] <OndraSter> you can't get much better than 2 cycles
[08:56:54] <OndraSter> you can't go below 1 cycle
[08:56:59] <OndraSter> so it is only 1 cycle "wasted" :P
[08:57:04] <amee2k> :/
[08:57:16] <OndraSter> isn't LDI one tick operation?
[08:57:22] <OndraSter> ergo it is 1/16000000th of a second
[08:57:23] <OndraSter> :P
[08:57:30] <rue_mohr> amee2k, encoder...
[08:57:46] <amee2k> mmh?
[08:57:56] <rue_mohr> what did you conclude
[08:58:04] <amee2k> conclude about what?
[08:58:12] <rue_mohr> the encoder code
[08:58:34] <amee2k> that your algorithm is better, but it doesn't seem to run any faster than the one i had
[08:58:50] <rue_mohr> lets optimize it then
[08:59:10] <amee2k> thats what i'm working on now :)
[08:59:29] <rue_mohr> what does it compile to now?
[08:59:41] <rue_mohr> when you compile to assembler
[08:59:51] <rue_mohr> with -O1
[08:59:54] <amee2k> the C code runs in ~3us which is what i got before too
[09:00:08] <amee2k> hang on, lemme disassemble it
[09:00:12] <rue_mohr> no
[09:00:16] <rue_mohr> just use -s with gcc
[09:00:17] <amee2k> no?
[09:00:28] <amee2k> whats that do?
[09:00:39] <rue_mohr> stops at the assembler level
[09:00:40] <amee2k> i thought you wanted the assembler code
[09:01:34] <dirty_d> -S
[09:01:39] <dirty_d> capital S right?
[09:01:43] <dirty_d> or is -s different?
[09:01:47] <rue_mohr> gcc outputs an assembler file
[09:01:54] <rue_mohr> could be S
[09:02:06] <amee2k> umm
[09:02:14] <dirty_d> take the -o off or it wont make the asselbly file
[09:02:24] <amee2k> http://paste.debian.net/154639/ << here is what it gave me
[09:02:29] <amee2k> if you can read that :P
[09:03:08] <nevdull> the -fverbose-asm can be useful with -S sometimes, too
[09:03:35] <dirty_d> that code sounds like this in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMXYE_50Ts
[09:04:43] <rue_mohr> maybe I should see th C code too eh?
[09:05:02] <amee2k> http://paste.debian.net/154640/
[09:05:22] * rue_mohr codes 6 code windows to open a new one
[09:06:11] <rue_mohr> where is it?
[09:06:29] <amee2k> that paste is the C code for the assembly output
[09:06:34] <amee2k> want the command line too?
[09:06:46] <rue_mohr> no the part in the C code that gets the encoder offset
[09:07:05] <amee2k> old_timer_isr, line 65
[09:07:14] <rue_mohr> wow, what did you do...
[09:07:46] <amee2k> the variable names changed, but the algorithm is the same as yours, no?
[09:08:00] <rue_mohr> why are you dynamically creating mask?
[09:08:10] <rue_mohr> not +=
[09:08:53] <amee2k> "+="?
[09:09:29] <rue_mohr> ok hold on...
[09:09:39] <amee2k> i need to shift it because my pins are two bits too high
[09:10:05] <rue_mohr> a)
[09:10:10] <rue_mohr> use #define to make the mask
[09:10:33] <rue_mohr> #define mask (ENCODER0_PINS <<2) & 0x0C;
[09:11:31] <amee2k> ?
[09:11:33] <amee2k> why that?
[09:11:43] <rue_mohr> because otherwise it will calculate it
[09:12:03] <rue_mohr> its static, dont put it in memory and dont calculate it
[09:12:57] <amee2k> what does memory have to do with it?
[09:13:10] <amee2k> the temporary never ends up in memory
[09:13:20] <rue_mohr> it takes time to a) calculate, and b) work with the memory value
[09:13:27] <rue_mohr> hold on
[09:13:33] <amee2k> http://paste.debian.net/154643/
[09:13:40] <dirty_d> mask = (ENCODER0_PINS << 2) & 0x0C;
[09:14:01] <dirty_d> that will be the same as using a macro
[09:14:09] <dirty_d> the optimizer will make it so
[09:14:40] <amee2k> the temporary variable never leaves the register, which would be used to hold it either way
[09:18:33] <rue_mohr> grrr my cat didn't come home yet
[09:18:56] <rue_mohr> amee2k, I'm gonna get this to compile to the least number of assembler instructions its gonna and get back to ya
[09:19:23] <amee2k> okay
[09:20:02] <rue_mohr> avr-gcc broke on my damn machine, its holding me up
[09:20:07] <rue_mohr> and I have like 4 mins to get to work
[09:20:22] <OndraSter> linux <3
[09:20:43] <OndraSter> lol
[09:20:55] <OndraSter> I am happy to have my phone running MS software, PC too, ...
[09:20:59] <rue_mohr> yea its got reason to, its a million years old
[09:21:17] * rue_mohr logs into the machine that can compile
[09:21:54] <rue_mohr> did you pay for it or steal it? ;)
[09:22:40] <rue_mohr> its ok, microsoft is working on getting parliment to make free software illegal anyhow
[09:23:01] <amee2k> mmh, whats the name of the "high()"/"low()" thingies in gcc's assembler?
[09:23:09] <amee2k> i.e. to get the high byte and the low byte of a symbol value
[09:23:58] <amee2k> all i get for using high()/low() is "garbage at end of line"
[09:24:05] <dirty_d> hi8() lo8()
[09:24:07] <dirty_d> hhi8()
[09:24:13] <dirty_d> hl8()
[09:24:20] <dirty_d> hlo8()
[09:24:21] <dirty_d> i think
[09:24:39] <amee2k> o.O
[09:24:42] <amee2k> which one now? >_>
[09:24:47] <dirty_d> theres 4
[09:24:58] <amee2k> oh
[09:25:07] <dirty_d> hi8() and lo8() for bytes of a 16 bit word
[09:25:09] <amee2k> right lo8/hi8 seem to work
[09:25:29] <dirty_d> hhi8() and hlo8() for bytes of the high 16 bit word of a 32 bit word
[09:25:54] <rue_mohr> position += offsets[oldstate]; // Update Position
[09:25:55] <rue_mohr> 1aa: 80 91 72 00 lds r24, 0x0072
[09:25:55] <rue_mohr> 1ae: 20 91 73 00 lds r18, 0x0073
[09:25:55] <rue_mohr> 1b2: 30 91 74 00 lds r19, 0x0074
[09:25:55] <rue_mohr> 1b6: e0 e6 ldi r30, 0x60 ; 96
[09:25:55] <rue_mohr> 1b8: f0 e0 ldi r31, 0x00 ; 0
[09:25:57] <rue_mohr> 1ba: e8 0f add r30, r24
[09:25:59] <rue_mohr> 1bc: f1 1d adc r31, r1
[09:26:01] <rue_mohr> 1be: 80 81 ld r24, Z
[09:26:03] <rue_mohr> 1c0: 99 27 eor r25, r25
[09:26:05] <rue_mohr> 1c2: 87 fd sbrc r24, 7
[09:26:07] <rue_mohr> 1c4: 90 95 com r25
[09:26:09] <rue_mohr> 1c6: 82 0f add r24, r18
[09:26:11] <rue_mohr> 1c8: 93 1f adc r25, r19
[09:26:12] <amee2k> C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
[09:26:15] <rue_mohr> 1ca: 90 93 74 00 sts 0x0074, r25
[09:26:15] <dirty_d> lol
[09:26:17] <rue_mohr> 1ce: 80 93 73 00 sts 0x0073, r24
[09:26:19] <rue_mohr> well there's yer problem
[09:26:23] <dirty_d> UNSTOPPABLE!
[09:26:37] <rue_mohr> hmm, how did I fix this last time
[09:26:53] <amee2k> fix what last time
[09:26:59] <amee2k> i don't even see the problem yet
[09:27:11] <rue_mohr> avr-gcc does stupid stuff if you dont address an array in a particular way
[09:27:17] <rue_mohr> ^^^ stupid stuff!
[09:27:26] <dirty_d> what way
[09:28:49] <amee2k> what is stupid about that?
[09:28:55] <amee2k> i don't get it
[09:36:55] <amee2k> "BREQ .+0" is jumps over the next two instructions _iif_ the Zero flag is set, right?
[09:38:15] <amee2k> or wait, does it jump over anything at all?
[09:38:44] <amee2k> if branch is taken, "PC <- PC + 0 + 1", and if branch is not taken "PC <- PC + 1"
[09:38:59] <rue_mohr> aha
[09:39:24] <rue_mohr> because oldstate is volatile AND cause I saved it after making my index, it wrote it back to memory
[09:39:46] <rue_mohr> so making a temp variable cut the code down by 1/3 cause it just keeps it in register
[09:40:14] <rue_mohr> unsigned char temp;
[09:40:14] <rue_mohr>
[09:40:14] <rue_mohr> temp = oldstate | (PIND & 0x0C); // Update Oldstate
[09:40:14] <rue_mohr>
[09:40:14] <rue_mohr> position += *(offsets+oldstate); // Update Position
[09:40:15] <rue_mohr>
[09:40:17] <rue_mohr> oldstate = temp >> 2;
[09:40:33] <rue_mohr> see what that assembles to, its almost as good assembler as you can hand do anyhow
[09:40:43] <rue_mohr> -O2
[09:40:55] <rue_mohr> oh oops
[09:41:16] <rue_mohr> position += *(offsets+oldstate); should be position += *(offsets+temp);
[09:42:23] <asteve> amee2k: what's the difference between the two?
[09:42:56] <rue_mohr> http://paste.debian.net/154648/
[09:43:02] <rue_mohr> amee2k, ^^ beat that by hand!
[09:43:02] <amee2k> asteve: none, thats why i'm wondering
[09:43:51] <asteve> are you sure it's +0?
[09:44:08] <amee2k> rue_mohr: i have no idea what you are going on about at this point, and haven't had any for the last 20 minutes or so
[09:44:23] <amee2k> 5c: 01 f0 breq .+0 ; 0x5e <__vector_15+0x26>
[09:45:07] <rue_mohr> amee2k, thats the asm for that encoder update
[09:45:19] <rue_mohr> amee2k, can you do better by hand coding asm?
[09:45:43] <amee2k> i don't know yet
[09:45:55] <amee2k> can you show me the full ISR asm?
[09:46:20] <rue_mohr> THATS IT
[09:46:30] <amee2k> most certainly not
[09:46:38] <amee2k> it has a RET instead of IRET, and no push/pops
[09:47:01] <rue_mohr> hmm maybeI called it from the isr
[09:47:19] <rue_mohr> I did cause I use it twice
[09:47:36] <amee2k> if i don't look at the PUSH/POP orgy going on, my C ISR fits into 2us too >_>
[09:48:10] <rue_mohr> ickgh
[09:48:12] <rue_mohr> yea
[09:48:47] <rue_mohr> http://paste.debian.net/154649/
[09:49:03] <rue_mohr> wonder why its pushing reg's it dosn't modify
[09:49:42] <amee2k> when it is generating that ISR boiler plate it doesn't know what regs updatePos() will need
[09:50:00] <rue_mohr> yea, if the isr were a macro ... hmm
[09:50:10] <amee2k> or make it static so the compiler can inline it
[09:50:26] <amee2k> macros are for cosmetic stuff only IMO
[09:56:40] <amee2k> wtf, after like 8 years of not looking at it, my head is still screwed up from x86 real mode assembly >_<
[10:03:45] <dirty_d> amee2k, can you avoid the pushing and popping by setting aside some regs that the rest of the program doesnt use?
[10:04:29] <amee2k> the rest of the program is written in C too
[10:05:34] <dirty_d> amee2k, register int *foo asm ("a5");
[10:05:45] <dirty_d> use those as global variables
[10:05:52] <dirty_d> and use only those in your ISR
[10:06:02] <dirty_d> that way the rest of your probram wont touch those regs
[10:06:03] <amee2k> that works? o.O
[10:06:15] <dirty_d> yea
[10:06:24] <amee2k> interresting... lemme give it a shot
[10:06:49] <amee2k> mmh, does it work on 16-bit variables too?
[10:06:50] <dirty_d> but it shouldnt be a pointer
[10:07:06] <dirty_d> im not sure
[10:07:19] <amee2k> that'd need two registers, how do i specify the second one? or is it implicitly the next higher one?
[10:08:54] <dirty_d> i think you might have to do it yourself in assembly
[10:08:56] <dirty_d> in the ISR
[10:09:07] <dirty_d> but at least the rest of the program wont touch that register
[10:09:19] <dirty_d> just make as many globals like that as you need
[10:09:26] <dirty_d> how many regs do you need?
[10:09:56] <amee2k> ideall? two 16-bit vars and one 8-bit var
[10:10:13] <dirty_d> then just make 3 globals
[10:10:20] <dirty_d> and use those 3 registers in your isr
[10:11:43] <dirty_d> volatile register unsigned char a asm volatile("r1"); volatile register unsigned char b asm volatile("r2"); volatile register unsigned char c asm volatile("r3");
[10:11:45] <dirty_d> try that
[10:12:01] <dirty_d> but with registers you cna use
[10:13:11] <amee2k> do i need volatile if i have register already?
[10:13:27] <dirty_d> see if when you compile the code the registers you choose arent used
[10:13:30] <dirty_d> im not sure
[10:13:35] <amee2k> what i'd really want is a way to declare a variable volatile only within a specific function or section of code
[10:13:59] <amee2k> the API functions of my encoder lib may get preempted by the ISR so the variable is volatile there
[10:14:05] <amee2k> but it isn't within the ISR
[10:14:29] <amee2k> because state is committed to memory before it returns and it cannot be interrupted
[10:14:39] <dirty_d> i dunno
[10:14:44] <dirty_d> but just see if this works in the first place
[10:14:58] <dirty_d> if it doesnt you shouldnt see the registers you chose being used for anything
[10:15:04] <dirty_d> if it does*
[10:15:12] <amee2k> yeah, i'm modifying my C ISR with stuff i've pieced together from rue's pastes
[10:17:46] <amee2k> something is screwed up now though, i'm getting what looks like really bad bounce issues
[10:18:17] <amee2k> position advancing while the shaft is stationary and when i turn it by hand a little bit i'm getting dozens of rotations
[10:18:29] <amee2k> execution time is just around 2us now though \o/
[10:21:13] <dirty_d> hmm
[10:22:51] <amee2k> okay the "position +=" line is supposed to read "position += *(offsets+mask);" then it works >-<
[10:22:54] <amee2k> >_<
[10:22:55] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, i ordered two atxmega32a4u
[10:23:06] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, sweet :)
[10:23:23] <dirty_d> messin around with some code now even though i cnat test it to get a feel for things
[10:23:43] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, avr-gcc doesnt have a atxmega32a4u target, but it has atxmega32a4
[10:23:47] <dirty_d> thats fine?
[10:23:52] <amee2k> when i declare the position variable as register, execution time goes down by ~500ns, but it keeps crashing and i get weird symbols on the display
[10:24:10] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, close enough
[10:24:17] <dirty_d> amee2k, you made them global?
[10:24:19] <abcminiuser> Latest Atmel toolchain has it
[10:24:25] <dirty_d> outside of any fuction
[10:24:29] <amee2k> yeah
[10:24:35] <amee2k> volatile register int16_t encoder__enc0_delta asm("r2");
[10:24:44] <dirty_d> amee2k, oh i doubt thats gonna work
[10:24:45] <amee2k> ^^ i tried only one for the moment and left the other two as they were
[10:24:58] <dirty_d> its only 1 register for a 16 bit type
[10:25:16] <dirty_d> amee2k, i think you cant use those regs either?
[10:25:33] <dirty_d> i thought you had to use like r24 and up or soemthing
[10:25:34] <dirty_d> i cnat remember
[10:25:37] <amee2k> from the assembler output it seems like it is using the next higher register too implicitly
[10:25:40] <dirty_d> for general purpose stuff
[10:25:41] <amee2k> 718: 28 0e add r2, r24
[10:25:41] <amee2k> 71a: 39 1e adc r3, r25
[10:26:04] <amee2k> i.e. R3:R2 for that 16 bit variable
[10:26:05] <dirty_d> yea but its probably not reserving it
[10:26:17] <dirty_d> its probably only reserving r2
[10:26:30] <amee2k> it isn't pushing any of the two
[10:26:55] <amee2k> brb, gotta make a phone call
[10:27:09] <amee2k> wanted to caall 20 minutes ago but forgot. this one is kinda important
[10:36:07] <amee2k> yuck
[10:36:08] <amee2k> done
[10:36:13] <amee2k> sometimes i hate doctors >_<
[10:36:51] <amee2k> so, back
[10:42:52] <amee2k> 3.4us :/
[10:43:52] <amee2k> at this point i don't even get why the ISR calls aren't running into each other because they take too long
[10:44:25] <amee2k> hmm well the window is 4us long anyway
[10:48:15] <amee2k> err wait shit, the ISR calls *are* stalling
[10:49:27] <amee2k> 4.65us execution time >_<
[10:49:42] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, what determines what pin is the pwm output for say TCE0.CCA?
[10:50:02] <dirty_d> i dont see anything that explains that in the manual
[10:50:36] <abcminiuser> dirty_d, you need two PDFs:
[10:50:45] <dirty_d> yea i have both open
[10:50:50] <abcminiuser> Ah ok then
[10:50:56] <abcminiuser> It's in the dev specific PDF
[10:51:00] <dirty_d> maybe im looking in the wrong place
[10:51:01] <abcminiuser> But it'll be on port E somewhere
[10:51:06] <dirty_d> yea
[10:51:07] <abcminiuser> Yarg, lemme find it then
[10:51:35] <amee2k> rue_mohr: http://paste.debian.net/154667/ << what do you think?
[10:53:46] <dirty_d> it says PORTE has 1 TCC0, but doesnt say what pins are CCA CCB CCC or CCD
[10:54:18] <abcminiuser> Hrm
[10:55:13] <amee2k> main loop timing is off by a factor of 10x now too because the ISR keeps stalling
[10:55:23] <abcminiuser> For
[10:55:23] <abcminiuser> Timer/Counter Low, CMP channels A to D will override port pins 0 to 3 output value (OUTxn) on
[10:55:23] <abcminiuser> the corresponding port pin (Pxn). For Timer/Counter High, CMP channels E to H will override
[10:55:24] <abcminiuser> port pin 4 to 7.
[10:56:14] <dirty_d> wheres it say that?
[10:56:48] <abcminiuser> AU Manual
[10:56:52] <dirty_d> what page
[10:57:02] <abcminiuser> Page 193, near the bottom
[10:57:11] <abcminiuser> "15.6.3
[10:57:11] <abcminiuser> Port override for Waveform Generation"
[10:58:51] * abcminiuser demands a shrubbery
[10:59:14] <dirty_d> whats it mean timer/counter low and high?
[10:59:17] <dirty_d> what? lol
[10:59:31] <dirty_d> tehrse TC0 type and TC1 type
[10:59:38] <dirty_d> and TC2 but i dont want it
[11:00:13] <dirty_d> oh is that in split mode?
[11:01:43] <abcminiuser> Haven't a clue
[11:01:56] * abcminiuser has been doing support for the last 8 hours :S
[11:04:40] <dirty_d> yikes
[11:05:30] <dirty_d> abcminiuser, i guess this would work right? http://pastebin.com/N84PBsW5
[11:06:22] <abcminiuser> Bad kitty, use the proper XMEGA bit defines
[11:06:34] <abcminiuser> Also search manual for CCP, which you'll need to set the system clock
[11:07:02] <dirty_d> ok
[11:07:16] <dirty_d> i grepped for the bit defines but i dont think i found the right ones, they had strange names
[11:10:15] <abcminiuser> IIRC it's PERIPHERALNAME_REGISTERNAME_BITNAME_suffix
[11:10:39] <abcminiuser> Where suffix can be "_bm" (bit mask) "_gm" (group mask) or "_bp" (bit position)
[11:12:21] <dirty_d> CPU_CCP = 0xD8; CLK.CTRL = 0x01;
[11:12:23] <dirty_d> taht better?
[11:13:20] <abcminiuser> Better
[11:13:32] <abcminiuser> Use inline ASM to meet timing constraints however
[11:13:56] <dirty_d> is there any difference between using CLK_CTRL and CLK.CNRL?
[11:14:28] <dirty_d> thats just 2 asignments how could gcc not do it fast enough?
[11:18:27] <dirty_d> hmm, im confused i dont even see 0xD8 or 216 in the assembly output
[11:21:15] <specing> abcminiuser: they put you in tech support?
[11:21:54] <specing> You flew half the world just so you could be in support?
[11:22:00] <abcminiuser> specing, for the first few weeks
[11:22:07] <abcminiuser> Then I'm on ASF development, we rotate
[11:22:21] <specing> ASF... webdev?
[11:25:48] <abcminiuser> Nei, AVR Software Framework
[11:26:03] <abcminiuser> The big-ass codebase in Studio 5 or as a seperate download from Atmel.com
[11:26:22] <abcminiuser> Contains drivers and services for XMEGAs and UC3
[11:29:20] <dirty_d> cool
[11:30:01] <specing> Is it opensourced?
[11:30:33] <ben1066> ordered some attiny5s and 10s for fun :P
[11:30:47] <ben1066> I guess my only real option for them is asm?
[11:30:54] <specing> ben1066: Are you going in for some BDSM with them?
[11:31:07] <ben1066> lol derp
[11:31:14] <specing> herp derp derp
[11:31:14] <ben1066> I meant that as in I had no real idea
[11:31:21] <ben1066> what i was going to use them for
[11:31:45] <specing> I thought about it too, but then went for m168
[11:32:10] <ben1066> i have standard parts like 168s 8s t45s t2313s
[11:32:18] <specing> m168 has like the best feature/price combination
[11:32:20] <ben1066> I wanted something that was a bit more interesting..
[11:33:11] <ben1066> albeit I admit, at 70p in single unit quantities the attiny10 is hugely overpriced
[11:33:57] <abcminiuser> specing, yes, it's open source
[11:34:13] <abcminiuser> Well, most of it is, except for the secret/patented bits like the qtouch and sensor libraries
[11:34:30] <abcminiuser> Open AVRStudio 5, make a new "Example Project" and you'll be using ASF
[11:34:36] <abcminiuser> Alternatively, www.atmel.com/asf
[11:44:15] <Steffanx> amee2k still there?
[11:47:46] <cyanide> whats a good cheap isp programmer to program atmega2560?
[11:47:59] <amee2k> Steffanx: yep
[11:48:19] <ben1066> cyanide: avrisp mk2? its not expensive
[11:48:20] <amee2k> avrisp2 isn't too expensive and should do megaX0
[11:48:23] <ben1066> or tomitx's clone..
[11:48:39] <amee2k> i think for a little more you can get a dragon too which does jtag and HV programming
[11:48:42] <ElMonkey> or the dragon
[11:49:32] <ben1066> hmm
[11:49:37] <ben1066> on the really tiny attinys
[11:49:39] <OndraSter> Dragon is good
[11:49:42] <OndraSter> cheap
[11:49:43] <ben1066> after disabling the reset fuse
[11:49:46] <OndraSter> has all interfaces I think
[11:49:48] <ben1066> is there any way to reprogram it?
[11:49:51] <asteve> does the dragon have debugging?
[11:49:55] <ben1066> yes
[11:50:00] <OndraSter> yes
[11:50:04] <amee2k> dragon does dW and jtag iirc
[11:50:06] <asteve> well sign me up!
[11:50:06] <OndraSter> even I, cheap student, bought Dragon :P
[11:50:13] <OndraSter> yes, and PDI too probably
[11:50:30] <asteve> i was a cheap student once, now i'm an even cheaper salaried professional trying to save for my masters :p
[11:50:34] <amee2k> doesn't avrdude support using a buttpirate as programmer?
[11:50:51] <ben1066> yes think so
[11:50:52] <ElMonkey> lol
[11:51:09] <amee2k> i vaguely remember reading something to that effect somewhere
[11:51:21] <Steffanx> You ever test opamp-circuits in LT Spice amee2k ?
[11:51:29] <ElMonkey> ben1066, does the datasheet say it supports high voltage programming? i think that still works when the fuses are screwed up
[11:51:30] <Steffanx> And .. if you do, you use LT models only?
[11:52:23] <amee2k> Steffanx: define what you mean by "test"
[11:52:33] <Steffanx> made/design
[11:52:38] <Steffanx> simulate
[11:52:52] <ben1066> ElMonkey: not afaik
[11:53:07] <amee2k> if by test you mean trying to confirm whether my theory behind the circuit is sound and getting all the polarities right, then yes
[11:53:30] <ben1066> they are TPI
[11:53:31] <dirty_d> amee2k, i tried out that thing i showed you, it worked
[11:53:35] <dirty_d> but you gotta use the right regs
[11:53:37] <Steffanx> Using LT models only i guess amee2k ?
[11:53:37] <amee2k> if you mean a realistic expectation as to whether it will actually work, no.
[11:53:46] <Steffanx> Ah ok
[11:53:53] <amee2k> i only use the universalopamp one... the one with the supplies
[11:54:19] <amee2k> i find simulators are quite interresting for studying theory
[11:54:31] <amee2k> but mildly useless for coming up with a real-world design
[11:55:13] <amee2k> hunting for the models of parts you can actually get is a bitch
[11:56:16] <amee2k> finding models [ a) that actually give a reasonable approximatino of the part's real world behaviour and b) model parts that are actually available for sale at reasonable conditions and c) don't model shitty decades-old parts ] is quite impossible IMO
[11:57:15] <amee2k> at least on a consistent enough basis that developing design procedures based on simulation results would be worth it
[11:57:56] <ziph> I haven't had trouble with it and opamps.
[11:58:28] <ziph> A manufacturers spice model is going to be easier to use to determine proper compensation than some tiny graph on a datasheet.
[11:59:02] <amee2k> well, provided the model is good enough that the simulated compensation network works in a real circuit too
[11:59:42] <amee2k> i don't mind the tiny graph if it is a vector graphic and you can zoom in on end in the PDF >_>
[12:01:08] <ziph> And to look at it another way, the things that don't work in spice almost certainly won't work on the bench.
[12:02:49] <Steffanx> True, but for example the spice models of microchip aren't compatible with lt spice :(
[12:02:50] <amee2k> but just because you got it working in spice doesn't mean it'll likely work on a bench too
[12:02:58] <Steffanx> They're made for pspice
[12:03:13] <dirty_d> ldi r24,lo8(-40) out 52-0,r24, im doing CCP = 0xD8 why is it turning that into -40, and whats the deal with 52-0?
[12:03:14] <ziph> Do they use pspice specific features?
[12:04:34] <Steffanx> I read something about different levels of simulation, don't know the details
[12:05:55] <ziph> And things like FET's which are just parameterized well known models are always going to be closer to any model you'd use in pen and paper design
[12:06:22] <abcminiuser_> MONKEYS ARE PEOPLE TOO
[12:06:32] <Steffanx> abcminiuser_ is a monkey too?
[12:06:34] <karlp> NO, THEY ARE MONKEYS!
[12:06:35] <abcminiuser_> Also, I found the vodka bottle
[12:06:54] <karlp> WE MUST ASK THEM REPETITIVE QUESTIONS TO DRIVE THEM TO DRINK
[12:07:01] <ziph> abcminiuser: You've figured out how people _really_ keep warm in those northern countries?
[12:08:55] <abcminiuser_> ziph, damned right
[12:09:03] <abcminiuser_> But keep that in mind if you ask me any more AVR questions
[12:09:25] <abcminiuser_> You'll probably get something approximating the answer and no more
[12:09:33] <Steffanx> Hmpf
[12:09:43] <Steffanx> Norway isn't any good for you
[12:09:45] <ziph> How many AVR's does an AVRchuck chuck if an AVRchuck could chuck AVR's?
[12:10:06] <Steffanx> 42
[12:10:22] <ziph> That would exceed the entire stock of purchasable AVR's in the world!
[12:11:54] <abcminiuser_> ziph, we have a ton here at the HQ if that's any help
[12:12:23] <ziph> abcminiuser_: So it's true that Atmel loves their AVR's so much they don't want to sell them to anyone? :)
[12:12:34] * abcminiuser_ is under NDA
[12:12:35] <abcminiuser_> ;)
[12:12:42] <Steffanx> No you are drunk
[12:12:57] <ziph> You're not allowed to reply to AVR based jokes? :)
[12:14:27] <amee2k> evidently not
[12:15:22] <dirty_d> any good tutorials to learn xmega instruction set?
[12:15:35] <Steffanx> The instruction set manual :P
[12:15:47] <ben1066> so other than HV programming, which, unless there is a HV TPI isn't possible, there is no way to overcome a RESET disable fuse?
[12:15:55] <abcminiuser_> ziph, there's public logs kept of this room IIRC, don't want to get into trouble :S
[12:16:04] <abcminiuser_> Remote possibility, but still, I like my new job
[12:16:05] <Steffanx> Isn't the xmega instruction set similar to the one of other AVRs?
[12:16:25] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, the core instruction set is basically the same, although there are some added instructions
[12:16:35] <abcminiuser_> And even more ones added in the new USB XMEGAs
[12:16:43] <abcminiuser_> Like LAT - Load And Toggle
[12:17:05] <Steffanx> That one isn't that important :P
[12:17:17] <ben1066> why are teh JTAGICEs so expensive when the dragon costs £50
[12:17:30] <Steffanx> The jtag mk3 is only 199 :P
[12:17:39] <ben1066> its 4...
[12:17:43] <ben1066> 4x*
[12:18:00] <ziph> Because hobbyists are meant to buy the dragon and engineers are supposed to spend more for the same features on a mk3.
[12:18:17] <Steffanx> The mk3 is probably waaay faster
[12:18:19] <Steffanx> but ask abcminiuser_ :P
[12:18:22] <ben1066> the mk3 seems nicer :P
[12:18:23] <Steffanx> He owns them both
[12:18:33] <ziph> Yeah, I'm sure it is.
[12:18:34] <Steffanx> And he is an atmel helpdesk
[12:18:39] <ben1066> dragon takes 60 seconds for 256kb
[12:18:49] <ziph> But it isn't 4 times better. :)
[12:18:59] <ben1066> jtagice takes 14 seconds
[12:19:01] <Steffanx> I don't think he gets paid for the time he spends in here, though
[12:19:16] <OndraSter> and prices, ben1066 ? :P
[12:19:23] <ben1066> £50 vs £200
[12:19:26] <OndraSter> :P
[12:19:27] <OndraSter> there you go
[12:19:34] <ben1066> Ok admittidly it scales perfectly :P
[12:19:43] <OndraSter> and I am 111% sure that the Dragon could work way faster :P
[12:19:48] <OndraSter> just remove the NOPs there!
[12:19:56] <ben1066> xD
[12:20:00] <Steffanx> Don't compare those prices ben1066 .. that's incl. farnell taxes probably :P
[12:20:08] <Steffanx> it's 50$ vs 199$ :P
[12:20:15] <OndraSter> $49 vs $199 actually
[12:20:26] <OndraSter> still, scales properly lol
[12:20:27] <Steffanx> details :)
[12:20:29] <ben1066> thats mouser prices
[12:20:34] <ben1066> seeing as they sell both to the UK
[12:20:59] <ben1066> well, I included vat
[12:20:59] <ben1066> but
[12:21:01] <ben1066> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATJTAGICE3/?qs=Oaf4mloV4cNsQgQWtz2wQQ%3d%3d
[12:21:21] <ben1066> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATAVRDRAGON/?qs=bfm%2fOTQPtMSBdktIZaKRJg%3d%3d
[12:21:25] <ben1066> 35 vs 140
[12:21:31] <ben1066> still scales properly :p
[12:21:36] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, MK3 is only compatible with AS5 up, but is indeed way faster
[12:21:40] <Steffanx> The question is .. do you really think you NEED that mk3?
[12:21:52] <abcminiuser_> Although funnily enough it can't do HVSP or HVPP like the Dragon can
[12:22:05] <ben1066> why does everyone hate AS5? its not like we use pcs with 10gb hdds, 1ghz cpus and 1gb ram...
[12:22:11] <abcminiuser_> If I had infinite money I'd get a STK600 and an ICE3
[12:22:29] <ben1066> not an AVRONE? :P
[12:22:33] <OndraSter> ben1066, exactly, plus I am in <3 with Visual Studio itself
[12:22:52] <abcminiuser_> ben1066, I have one, not worth the money
[12:23:05] <abcminiuser_> The connector is super fragile, break it like I did and you need to buy another pod
[12:23:09] <Steffanx> Are you allowed to say that abcminiuser_ ?
[12:23:15] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, say what?
[12:23:20] <Steffanx> You should say "BUY THE AVRONE!" !!!
[12:23:31] <abcminiuser_> Buy whatever causes us the least amount of support cases
[12:23:43] <ben1066> meh, if I ever need debugging I guess ill buy what I can afford
[12:23:51] <ben1066> atm my ispmk2 works fine for what I do :P
[12:23:56] <ziph> ICE3 == mk3?
[12:24:03] <abcminiuser_> Yes, they changed the name
[12:24:03] <ben1066> ye
[12:24:07] <ziph> Ah.
[12:24:12] <abcminiuser_> JTAG-ICE MKII, JTAG-ICE3
[12:24:40] <ben1066> kinda wish teh ISP had a nice metal case like the other nice tools :P
[12:25:14] <grummund> and a ribbon cable that doesn't snap off :p
[12:25:26] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, why your JTAG ICE doesn't support newer devices? :P
[12:25:30] <OndraSter> it is just matter of firmware
[12:25:31] <OndraSter> :P
[12:25:37] <OndraSter> original ICE
[12:25:39] <Steffanx> $$$
[12:25:40] <ben1066> i havent had that issue, the isp ribbon cable seems fine
[12:26:02] <grummund> jtag version i mean
[12:26:11] <ben1066> aha
[12:26:48] <ben1066> also whats
[12:26:52] <ben1066> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1413.pdf
[12:26:53] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, I suspect it would be a case of no space left in the chip inside, but I don't know for sure
[12:26:54] <ben1066> avr ICE 200
[12:27:17] <abcminiuser_> ben1066, wait, original JTAG-ICE, or newer JTAG-ICE MKII?
[12:27:20] <OndraSter> abcminiuser_, hmm that might even make sense :o)
[12:27:31] <OndraSter> didn't thought about that
[12:27:32] <abcminiuser_> In the former case, I'm 99% sure they just ran out of room,
[12:27:41] <OndraSter> original JTAG ICE
[12:27:50] <abcminiuser_> Yeah, it had a smallish AVR in it
[12:27:55] <OndraSter> atmega8 I think
[12:27:56] <OndraSter> maybe 16?
[12:28:04] <abcminiuser_> Newer ones have much bigger AVRs, so more room for firmware
[12:28:09] <OndraSter> and why AVR Dragon has _two_ atmegas... 2560 AND 128a
[12:28:18] <OndraSter> "if burn, then just one"?
[12:28:19] <ben1066> its kinda sad there are no open source jtagice mk2 clones yet
[12:28:31] <Steffanx> The jtagice mkii has two times a 128 OndraSter
[12:28:54] <ben1066> ispmk2 has 1x128
[12:31:31] <abcminiuser_> OndraSter, the STK600 has three AVRs IIRC, so it wins ;)
[12:31:47] <abcminiuser_> ben1066, the JTAG debug protocol isn't public
[12:31:48] <ben1066> i thought about getting an stk600
[12:31:57] <abcminiuser_> Some people have reverse engineered it, but those aren't open source
[12:32:00] <ben1066> abcminiuser_: the jtagice 1 isnt either though is it?
[12:32:22] <abcminiuser_> ben1066, Atmel does not publish the debug protocol for AVR devices
[12:32:51] <ziph> Have you told them how sad that makes us?
[12:32:53] <ziph> ;)
[12:32:58] <Steffanx> RikusW did some nice reverse engineering :P
[12:33:00] <abcminiuser_> Yes, yes I have
[12:33:10] <abcminiuser_> Not my area's responsibility however
[12:33:39] <ben1066> Steffanx: linky?
[12:33:55] <OndraSter> http://www.ruemohr.org/docs/debugwire.html
[12:33:59] <Steffanx> ^^
[12:34:01] <OndraSter> or is it diff one
[12:34:17] <Steffanx> He also reverse engineered the jtagice mkI fw
[12:34:25] <Steffanx> Not sure if you can find that on the www
[12:34:46] <ben1066> https://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home/jtag
[12:34:47] <ben1066> found that
[12:34:47] <ben1066> :P
[12:36:41] <ben1066> the only thing i dont like witht eh dragon is its lack of protection
[12:36:44] <ben1066> it seems easy to fry
[12:38:10] <ElMonkey> i bought the dragon originally to have JTAG, but i havent actually used that feature yet :/
[12:38:17] <ben1066> lol
[12:38:21] <ElMonkey> still use the ISPmk2 mostly
[12:38:32] <ben1066> If i buy a dragon ill probly get a case, and then just attach headers like I do with my ISP
[12:38:39] <ben1066> i dont think ill use the on board area
[12:39:15] <OndraSter> yap
[12:39:18] <OndraSter> because if it burns up
[12:39:23] <OndraSter> you can't RMA it so easily :P
[12:40:03] <ben1066> heh that too
[12:40:57] <ben1066> albeit, seems ill just use the jtag
[12:41:01] <ben1066> I dont really need HV
[12:41:02] <ben1066> or isp
[12:41:03] <ben1066> :P
[12:41:13] <ben1066> i have my isp for isp and HV I try to avoid the need
[12:41:38] <OndraSter> I have got here one atmega16
[12:41:43] <OndraSter> that won't react to ISP or JTAG
[12:41:51] <OndraSter> I tried external clock source
[12:41:59] <OndraSter> feeding it 1 - 8MHz square
[12:42:01] <OndraSter> nope
[12:42:09] <OndraSter> gonna try HV PROG someday
[12:42:15] <ben1066> atmega16 is pretty cheap anyway
[12:42:20] <OndraSter> not here
[12:42:22] <ben1066> I managed to kill teh uart on an atmega8
[12:42:23] <OndraSter> they are still $3+
[12:42:33] <ben1066> turned out i was powering it with 9v...not 5v
[12:42:36] <ben1066> :)
[12:42:37] <OndraSter> lol
[12:42:40] <ben1066> Nothing else died
[12:42:42] <ben1066> just the uart
[12:43:07] <OndraSter> this atmega16 had once switched power 5V and GND
[12:43:11] <OndraSter> so there was -5V virtually
[12:43:14] <OndraSter> it survived
[12:43:16] <OndraSter> worked many months
[12:43:20] <OndraSter> and then died out of nothing
[12:43:23] <ben1066> avrs are pretty hardy :P
[12:43:30] <OndraSter> first wouldn't programm, then wouldn't react at all
[12:43:32] <OndraSter> it is not mines though
[12:43:33] <OndraSter> luckily
[12:44:12] <ben1066> i kinda want to move to arm
[12:44:24] <ben1066> but the issue is the support in tools and software
[12:44:29] <ben1066> it seems a bit crap compared to avrs
[12:45:09] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:45:19] <OndraSter> Keil is pretty much the major IDE
[12:45:47] <ben1066> as for tools....
[12:45:57] <ben1066> they are kinda here there and everywhere
[12:46:08] <ben1066> there dont seem to be any manafacturers tools, they all do devkits
[12:46:11] <ben1066> but not programmers
[12:46:53] <ziph> ben1066: Get Rowley CrossWorks with one of their $200 JTAG programmers.
[12:47:01] <ziph> ben1066: You won't need anything else.
[12:47:34] <ziph> ben1066: And it supports Windows/Mac/Linux under the one licence.
[12:47:56] <ziph> ben1066: And the tools are actually nice to use.
[12:48:23] <ben1066> is the ide eclipse based?
[12:48:27] <ziph> No.
[12:48:31] <ben1066> goo
[12:48:32] <ben1066> d
[12:48:37] <ziph> Yes, very. ;)
[12:48:38] <ben1066> i loath eclipse
[12:48:58] <ben1066> :O british?
[12:49:31] <ziph> Yeap.
[12:50:19] <ben1066> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Rowley-Associates/CC-ARM-LITE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuNuodT4rg012qXTRDw4qZQahPW49R5ut4%3d
[12:50:23] <ben1066> any good?
[12:50:25] <ziph> It comes with a nice multitasking library too.
[12:50:31] <ziph> Buy it from Rowley direct.
[12:50:57] <ben1066> Yea, i will
[12:51:01] <ben1066> just checking thats what I want :P
[12:51:04] <ziph> That must be new
[12:52:20] <ziph> The JTAG adapter is cheaper when you buy it with a licence of the software by the way.
[12:58:16] <ben1066> You have got to be shitting me, according to farnells website, in my £200 order, they sent the flux pen seperately via UPS...
[12:58:49] <ben1066> CAUSE THATS TOTALLY ECONOMICAL
[12:59:25] <ziph> It mayl be because of hazardous materials shipping requirements.
[13:00:02] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_,
[13:00:21] <ben1066> It doesnt show any extended shipping time for it...which it normally does for hazordous materials....
[13:00:24] <Tom_itx> i'd say the code is solid. i tested a whole batch of programmers with it wiht no issues
[13:00:26] <ben1066> and its not really that dangerous....
[13:01:14] <ben1066> but it comes under flammable liquid for transport...
[13:01:16] <ben1066> that could explain it
[13:01:52] <ben1066> so now i get a van with a big flammable sticker on it
[13:01:56] <ben1066> delivering a flux pen?
[13:01:56] <ben1066> :P
[13:02:05] <ziph> Or a flaming van.
[13:02:14] <ziph> It's more that they won't load them on to aircraft.
[13:02:30] <ben1066> ahh
[13:02:43] <ben1066> UK ROAD CLASS 3
[13:03:20] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, QA approved, ship it ;)
[13:03:53] <Tom_itx> soldered up 15 last night and tested em all
[13:04:04] <abcminiuser_> Actually, I do want to move latest trunk into a QA branch this weekend, due to the critical fault in the CDC driver
[13:04:09] <ben1066> so its as dangerous as petrol....according to this materials list...wow
[13:04:15] <Tom_itx> nice to have the recovery clock without swapping software too
[13:04:33] <abcminiuser_> Tom_itx, didn't it always have a recovery clock?
[13:04:52] <Tom_itx> yep but we hardwired another pin to avoid the PDI clock thing
[13:05:12] <Tom_itx> this is the first batch with that change
[13:06:49] <Tom_itx> OC1A
[13:07:18] <abcminiuser_> Ah, right
[13:07:32] <Tom_itx> instead of xck
[13:07:52] <Tom_itx> either one works
[13:08:01] <Tom_itx> you were concerned about it interferring with pdi
[13:10:36] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser_, did you make any other changes since the other day that i should download the git again?
[13:11:07] <abcminiuser_> No, just doc fixes
[13:16:31] <abcminiuser_> OK, I'm adding in Micropendous board drivers, then pushing this into a QA branch, any last requests before I lock it in?
[13:16:54] <Tom_itx> send me a load of xmegas
[13:16:56] <karlp> unicorns!
[13:17:15] <OndraSter> unicorns with atxmegas!
[13:17:31] <abcminiuser_> Ok, I'll add in a unicorn, anything else?
[13:17:40] <Jan-> hebboooo
[13:17:42] * Jan- wabes
[13:17:48] * Jan- is very idfectious
[13:17:53] * OndraSter waves
[13:18:01] <Jan-> *sneeze*
[13:18:15] * Tom_itx wipes his monitor
[13:18:30] <Jan-> Unclean, unclean
[13:18:31] * Jan- rings a bell
[13:18:47] <Jan-> God, I'm glad to be home
[13:18:48] <Jan-> work was hell
[13:19:10] <Jan-> I have a hidous awful suppurating head mucus production illness and it is making me feel like my skull is shrinking
[13:19:19] * Jan- vanished below a huge pile of blankets, and shivers
[13:20:10] <ben1066> abcminiuser_: whats this/
[13:20:25] <abcminiuser_> ben1066, LUFA, my USB stack
[13:20:28] <abcminiuser_> www.lufa-lib.org
[13:20:34] <ben1066> ah right, yea, ive seen it :P
[13:20:45] <Jan-> Does someone have a hot, lemony drink and tylenol/aspirin/whatever other acetaminophen product exists in your locality
[13:21:01] <ben1066> why?
[13:21:07] <Jan-> I'm very unwell :(
[13:21:11] <ben1066> tylenol?
[13:21:12] * Jan- leaks horrible mucus
[13:21:18] <Jan-> tylenol is the colonial term for aspirin
[13:21:25] <Steffanx> Ahhh
[13:21:25] <karlp> in what colony?
[13:21:31] <Jan-> Virginia
[13:21:38] <Jan-> :)
[13:21:42] <ben1066> mmk, in the UK I have never seen the word before
[13:21:49] <karlp> there have been many colonies from many nations :)
[13:21:58] <ben1066> and aspirin isnt used much over here either, we use paracetemol and ibuprofen more...
[13:22:03] <Jan-> Although I understand the traitorous wretches refer to themselves as the *spitspit* "United States of America"
[13:22:31] <Jan-> *sigh* if they elect the mormon, we're going to be forced to revoke independence :/
[13:22:49] <karlp> ben1066: acetaminophen is the same as paracetamol
[13:23:03] <Jan-> I forget what aspirin is
[13:23:07] <karlp> para-acetylaminophenol
[13:23:16] <Jan-> 2-acetoxybenzoic acid
[13:23:25] <karlp> salicyilc acid.
[13:23:28] <karlp> from the bark of the tree
[13:23:53] <Jan-> I think we have ibuprofen
[13:23:56] <ben1066> ibuprofen is a bit long....
[13:23:56] <Jan-> which has less side effects
[13:23:58] <karlp> vitamin I!
[13:24:03] <ben1066> iso-butyl-propanoic-phenolic acid
[13:24:06] <karlp> good for what ails you :)
[13:24:15] <OndraSter> want some orange, Jan- ?
[13:24:16] <karlp> when ale isn't helping
[13:24:17] <OndraSter> some vitamins?
[13:24:31] <Jan-> OndraSter: I've got acid reflux from drinking so much fruit juice :(
[13:24:38] <Jan-> but thanks for the offer
[13:24:47] * Jan- would kiss OndraSter, but suspects that OndraSter wouldn't like that right now
[13:24:48] <OndraSter> I already ate it anyway :D
[13:24:52] * Jan- oozes vile fluids
[13:25:31] <Jan-> is Night Nurse an international brand?
[13:25:40] <karlp> not anywhere I've ever lived
[13:25:55] <Jan-> lemony drink made up from powder, combines headache remedy, sleeping pill, oral disinfectant, and soothing throat stuff
[13:25:58] <OndraSter> wth is Night Nurse, some kind of hooker that knows medic stuff?
[13:26:00] <Jan-> designed to get you to sleep
[13:26:19] <karlp> holy shit, these guys are talking about a 28 layer pcb, with 10k parts
[13:26:21] <Jan-> it works, but you sleep for 18 hours, at least you do if you only weigh 108lbs like me :/
[13:26:28] <OndraSter> karlp, o_O
[13:26:45] <karlp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUb_l-r47O-rJsT5Jyy9uV5g&feature=player_detailpage&v=4qev7kunrj8#t=136s at about 10-11 minutes or so.
[13:27:02] <Jan-> karlp: what does it do?
[13:27:14] <karlp> I believe they weren't allowed to say, but Isuspect military
[13:27:23] <karlp> they were talking about the most complex projects they build
[13:27:38] <Jan-> I guess that's the only sort of stuff where you'd do that, but only make a few so it wasn't worth burning new chips.
[13:27:50] <Jan-> otherwise big stuff like that tends to get condensed into one IC, right?
[13:27:58] <karlp> that's what I normally see, yes.
[13:28:43] <Jan-> fpga maybe
[13:28:48] <Jan-> some radar stuff is like that too
[13:30:17] <ben1066> karlp: they refered to them as "the agency" so goverment makes sense
[13:30:43] <Jan-> here we are
[13:30:44] <karlp> govt in the states means military right?
[13:30:45] <Jan-> Night nurse capsules and liquid contain three active ingredients, paracetamol, promethazine and dextromethorphan.
[13:31:21] <Jan-> "Promethazine is a type of medicine called a sedating antihistamine. It enters the brain in sufficient quantities to cause drowsiness, and this sedative effect may also help suppress a cough."
[13:31:29] <Jan-> Yeah. And when I take hayfever medication, it knocks me the fuck out.
[13:31:33] <Jan-> Antihistamines :(
[13:32:57] <ben1066> karlp: you think im american? hell no :P
[13:33:10] <karlp> not you, but the "agency" referred to
[13:33:11] <keenerd> Drink lots of orange juice. If you have enough vitamin C in your body, you can not get lead poisoning. Solder with reckless abandon!
[13:33:12] <ben1066> karlp: but the agency could refer to any goverment branch :P
[13:33:14] * Jan- examines ben1066's butt for makers logo stars-n-stripes
[13:33:39] <ben1066> british :D
[13:33:47] <Jan-> I was born in the US, but I live here now :)
[13:34:07] <ben1066> Machester?
[13:34:15] <Jan-> Just northeast of London
[13:34:23] <ben1066> whois says manchester :P
[13:34:30] <Jan-> I uhoh
[13:34:33] <Jan-> I'm not in manchester
[13:34:36] <ben1066> lol
[13:34:38] <Jan-> if I was, I'd be wearing my anti-stab vest
[13:34:39] <karlp> whois says I'm in the uk too, but it doesn't mean I am
[13:34:59] <keenerd> Well /whois says I am in France.
[13:35:00] <ben1066> please ignore me
[13:35:04] <ben1066> thats teh freenode server
[13:35:07] <keenerd> :-)
[13:35:13] <karlp> :)
[13:35:51] <dirty_d> abcminiuser_, i must say im starting to like this
[13:35:59] <abcminiuser_> Sweet monkey jesus there are a LOT of Micropendous board designs
[13:36:02] <abcminiuser_> dirty_d, xmegas?
[13:36:06] <dirty_d> yea
[13:36:06] <abcminiuser_> Yeah, they're fun
[13:36:26] <abcminiuser_> Not hobbyist friendly due to the package they come in, but otherwise some sexy, sexy chips
[13:36:27] <dirty_d> kinda tricky at first to figure out how this all works, but im getting the hand ov it
[13:37:16] <karlp> as soon as you decide to deal with the packages though, you've opened up a universe of extra chip options.
[13:37:22] <karlp> then it's all about the tooling :(
[13:39:20] <dirty_d> abcminiuser_, so if i set up event and event channel to a port pin, i dont have to enable interrupts or anything?
[13:39:34] <dirty_d> it will just generate an event on whatever edges i select for the pin?
[13:40:07] * Jan- loves "Invader Zim"
[13:40:11] <dirty_d> im not worried abotu the package
[13:40:18] <dirty_d> well i am, but im just forcing myself to deal with it
[13:40:26] <abcminiuser_> dirty_d, events are asynchronous to the CPU
[13:40:34] <dirty_d> im more worried about the QFN24 that the gyro is in
[13:40:54] <abcminiuser_> You could route the timer compare event to the DMA to send out bytes through the USART at a defined interval, with no CPU intervention for example
[13:41:23] <dirty_d> im doing the pulse width capture thing
[13:41:30] <Jan-> aargh
[13:41:32] <Jan-> DMA? USART?
[13:41:34] <abcminiuser_> Even sexier - record data through ADC on a mic to external memory, then DMA it out the DAC to a speaker via a timer using events (this is an Atmel demo, the CPU just sleeps the whole time)
[13:41:37] <Jan-> CPU nowait I know that one
[13:41:39] <dirty_d> so i set up PORTC2 to event0 and portC3 to event1
[13:41:50] <abcminiuser_> Jan-, USART is a serial port
[13:41:53] <dirty_d> haven them set to both edges
[13:41:54] <karlp> abcminiuser_: that's exactly what one of our uni projects was :)
[13:42:03] <abcminiuser_> Although it can also do other serial stuff, like SPI
[13:42:07] <karlp> demonstrating what dma was :)
[13:42:19] <abcminiuser_> Jan-, DMA is damned sexy, it's like a hardware memcpy()
[13:42:22] <karlp> if it stuttered, you didn't have it working yet :)
[13:42:22] <Jan-> abcminiuser_: why don't they call it that then
[13:42:30] <Jan-> what's a memcpy?
[13:42:42] <Jan-> do they come in pink? where can you get them on discount?
[13:42:43] <karlp> man memcpy
[13:42:47] <abcminiuser_> Jan-, USART = Universal Synchronous/Asynchronous Receiver/Transmitter
[13:43:01] <abcminiuser_> Jan-, memcpy() is a function in C libraries to copy memory from one place to another
[13:43:03] <open> hello
[13:43:08] <open> perhaps a bit off-topic, but:
[13:43:10] <open> KEYPAD_PORT|= 0X0F;
[13:43:11] <Jan-> okay...
[13:43:17] <open> the | there, what the hell is that?
[13:43:26] <karlp> by the power of OR-skull
[13:43:26] <open> that's in C code
[13:43:30] <abcminiuser_> Although in the case of the XMEGAs, the source/dest can be a peripheral, so you can stream data between memory and a peripheral or between two peripherals without using the CPU
[13:43:43] <abcminiuser_> open, bitwise-OR
[13:43:43] <karlp> open: it's the same as KEYPAD_PORT = KEYPAD_PORT | 0x0f
[13:43:49] <open> ahhh, ok
[13:45:11] <amee2k> hmm are there any standard packages that are like a 4-sided DIP, or single-row PGA kind of package?
[13:55:07] <open> how about this: KEYPAD_DDR&=~(0X7F);
[13:55:09] <open> the ~ there
[13:55:14] <karlp> bitwise complement
[13:55:19] <ben1066> hmm, whats the best way to move from avr to arm?
[13:55:38] <karlp> try and recompile the code with arm-none-eabi-gcc? :)
[13:55:50] <karlp> and find out how much hw code you mixed in with the business logic ;)
[13:56:16] <ben1066> Nono, i meant as a platform
[13:56:20] <ben1066> Im not porting anything
[13:56:20] <ben1066> :P
[13:56:33] <amee2k> how about starting with some cheap ARM dev board?
[13:56:38] <open> are you guys here all fans of avr? :) as in, if ever I had a project to do I've use avr -- would never consider arm, or.. what?
[13:56:54] <karlp> so wha tthen? there's hardware design guide docs from most of the arm hardware makers
[13:57:00] <amee2k> i don't know any DIP packaged ARMs so just starting with an ISP adapter and a breadboard won't work i guess
[13:57:24] <karlp> there's a few dip arms these days, but they're very new, and only some parts
[13:57:32] <ureif> karlp: from which mfr ?
[13:57:35] <karlp> nxp
[13:57:46] <amee2k> open: lots of people here are AVR fans, but i'd say lots of people are also a fan of "the right tool for the right job" ;)
[13:57:49] <karlp> someone else too, I can't remember,
[13:57:56] * karlp is with amee2k
[13:58:19] <amee2k> on that note, i recently seem to fail massively on the latter :P
[13:58:27] <karlp> if yo uwant to experiment with the hardware, the cheapest is probably the stm32 vl discovery board, at about 8 euros
[13:58:46] <karlp> built in debugger and programming adapter you can use on other stm32 designs
[13:58:48] <Jan-> amee is still a girl's name
[13:59:02] <amee2k> Jan-: and jan is still a dude's name
[13:59:09] <Jan-> grrrrr
[13:59:10] <Jan-> quiet you
[13:59:13] * karlp laughs
[13:59:13] <amee2k> :P
[13:59:14] <Jan-> It's short for Janine
[13:59:25] <Jan-> I'm not fricken swedish
[13:59:28] <Jan-> and it's Jan with a J
[13:59:35] <Jan-> not the dumb pronunciation, Yawn.
[13:59:42] <amee2k> >_>
[13:59:47] * karlp grins some more
[14:00:55] * Jan- lights karlp on fire
[14:02:41] <ureif> amee2k isn't a girl ?
[14:02:53] * amee2k takes a look in his pants
[14:02:57] <amee2k> most definitely not
[14:05:51] <dirty_d> abcminiuser_, have you use pulse width capture? im not sure if you can only have it capture on one channel, or on as many channels as the timer has
[14:10:14] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, i posted the various prog revisions i've done on my page
[14:12:45] * Jan- suffers horribly :(
[14:13:12] <Tom_itx> i presumed jan was for janet
[14:13:41] <Jan-> I get Janice a lot
[14:13:49] <Tom_itx> i had that snotty crud for 3 weeks
[14:13:57] <Jan-> but online, most people just assume I'm a swedish guy
[14:14:05] <Tom_itx> you're not?
[14:14:07] <Tom_itx> :)
[14:14:13] <ureif> I just assumed Jan was January Jones
[14:14:28] * Jan- inserts sharp objects into tender portions of Tom_itx's anatomy
[14:15:25] <Jan-> normally colds last 2-3 days
[14:15:28] <Jan-> ...I hope...
[14:15:41] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, link?
[14:16:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[14:16:58] <Tom_itx> there were a few that i wasn't sure ever got out
[14:17:08] <Tom_itx> test boards
[14:17:27] <Tom_itx> damn, i may loose power. lights just blinked big time
[14:18:03] <Jan-> but your PC stayed up
[14:18:16] <Tom_itx> so did the lights for now
[14:21:42] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, sold a billion yet?
[14:21:58] <Jan-> aww, phil just bought me a little meal with all my favorite things :)
[14:23:03] <Tom_itx> not nearly
[14:24:10] <Tom_itx> if i had i'd have stayed in Jamaca instead of coming back
[14:24:46] <Jan-> jamaica? cool!
[14:24:48] <Jan-> or rather, warm
[14:32:17] <dirty_d> just missed the price reduction, lol
[14:35:55] <Jan-> price redu... dammit! which price reduction?
[14:42:22] <dirty_d> on Tom_itx's usbtinymkiis
[14:43:05] <Jan-> is it OK for white people to do that hand-grasp-semi-hug thing yet
[14:44:33] <dirty_d> im not sure
[14:46:14] * Jan- googles for info
[14:46:18] * Jan- is sociologically stuntefd
[14:58:08] * Jan- sneezes :(
[14:58:56] <Jan-> the amount it's possible to pay for a USB to RS232 cable increases in more or less £0.01 increments
[14:59:04] <Jan-> there's dozens of 'em!
[14:59:09] <Jan-> this makes it superhard to pick one
[15:18:27] <Jan-> uurrrgh
[15:18:29] <Jan-> I feel terrible
[15:18:33] <Johnny_Giggles> Good morning everyone
[15:18:41] <Jan-> I have shooting pains in my joints, I'm freezing cold, and I have a splitting headache.
[15:18:44] <Jan-> And I feel sick.
[15:18:49] * Jan- adds more blankets
[15:19:22] <Jan-> *shiver* *twitch*
[15:25:30] <specing> Jan-: pl2303 works
[15:26:46] <Tekno> some times
[15:27:27] <specing> Works all the time here
[15:27:37] <Tekno> make sure they have all the pins broken out off the ic
[15:27:46] <Tekno> not just tx rx
[15:27:56] <Tekno> seen a lot like that
[15:29:19] <Tekno> also dont expect any support from them as half of them dont even know what it is that they are selling
[15:29:57] <Tekno> so if a pin is not labeled you will have to use the datasheet to figure out what it does
[15:30:53] <Tekno> prob also would go with one that has 3.3 And 5v switchable or both
[15:31:07] <Steffanx> On linux maybe specing .. on windows you have to find the right driver first
[15:31:15] <specing> Lol windows
[15:31:44] <Tekno> lol linux
[15:33:11] <Tekno> once you get down to all that there is like 1 you should actually buy and its possible the same price as going with a ftdi model 9$ ish
[15:33:31] <Steffanx> Very original response specing
[15:34:29] <Jan-> If I put an ad on rent-a-coder (or whatever it's called these days) looking for someone to do AVR code, I'd probably get a bunch of unqualified teenagers, wouldn't I :(
[15:34:57] <Steffanx> unqualified indian teenagers, yes :P
[15:35:04] <specing> :D
[15:35:11] <Jan-> oh I refuse to criticize those guys
[15:35:18] <Jan-> they're in a developing country and they're putting it out there
[15:35:28] <Jan-> if only the west had that kind of entrepreneurial spirit
[15:35:33] <Steffanx> I'm just kidding Jan-
[15:35:41] <Jan-> sure, but you're also right
[15:35:56] <Jan-> there *are* a lot of code places you can send stuff out to in India
[15:36:13] <Jan-> and, well, OK, quality can be a bit variable...
[15:37:04] <Tekno> they fired all our graphics artist at my company and made a company in india do it, most hilarious thing I have seen is the work that comes back from them and the advertisers comments on the work
[15:37:26] <Tekno> you will see the ad with like 17 comments on it of corrections
[15:37:34] <Tekno> where it would have taken like 1 here
[15:37:46] <Jan-> oh dear
[15:37:53] <Jan-> did the poor graphics guy get another job
[15:38:10] <Tekno> you tell them you want a Cat bulldozer on the ad they would send you back an ad with a fur cat on it digging in the dirt
[15:38:16] <abcminiuser> Ok, any GCC-GAS monkeys in here?
[15:39:10] <Steffanx> abcminiuser, we'll talk to you again when your sober again :P
[15:39:17] <Steffanx> -again
[15:39:17] <abcminiuser> I am now :(
[15:39:21] <Steffanx> ok ok :P
[15:39:25] * Jan- makes abcminiuser drink coffee
[15:39:27] <abcminiuser> I wouldn't code assembly otherwise :S
[15:39:35] <abcminiuser> Jan-, had at least six cups today :S
[15:39:36] <Steffanx> You write assembly?!
[15:39:52] <abcminiuser> Steffanx, making a API to my C bootloader for the user application, so yes :P
[15:39:55] <abcminiuser> It's just a jump tablr
[15:39:57] <abcminiuser> *table
[15:40:06] <Jan-> aaafrgh
[15:40:15] <Jan-> why is this stuff so COMPLICAAAATED
[15:40:17] <Jan-> </zim>
[15:40:20] <Steffanx> It isn't
[15:40:22] <abcminiuser> https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa-lib/blob/master/trunk/Bootloaders/CDC/BootloaderAPITable.S
[15:40:47] <abcminiuser> Anyway, I want to stuff in custom bytes, but the assembler horks on the .byte directive
[15:40:48] <Jan-> you're Dean Camera?
[15:41:02] <Steffanx> /whois abcminiuser
[15:41:11] <Tekno> -Bob Villa
[15:41:13] <Jan-> waaa!
[15:41:14] <abcminiuser> Jan-, sure am
[15:41:16] * Jan- falls to her knees
[15:41:18] * Jan- is not worthy!
[15:41:19] * Jan- is not worthy!
[15:41:20] <abcminiuser> hehe
[15:41:41] <Tekno> thats quiet forward of you
[15:41:42] <Steffanx> abcminiuser's biggest fan
[15:41:56] <abcminiuser> Bwahahaa
[15:41:57] <Jan-> you wrote a USB stack.... in SOFTWARE?
[15:41:59] <RikusW> abcminiuser: .db don't work ? or is that only for avrasm2 ?
[15:42:03] <Tekno> you should atleast take him to dinner first
[15:42:04] <abcminiuser> Guess someone knows of me after all :)
[15:42:04] <Jan-> USB is crAaAaAaAzy complicated
[15:42:32] <Jan-> also, Phil (who works in the movie industry) envies you your incredibly cool name.
[15:42:34] <abcminiuser> RikusW, only for the Atmel ASM assembler - GAS *should* accept it, it seems to think it's located at some crazy address for some reason
[15:42:36] <Jan-> ...where is that name from?
[15:42:55] <abcminiuser> Jan-, yup, but it's hardware accelerated
[15:43:13] <Jan-> oh right
[15:43:14] <abcminiuser> I'm an Aussie, Camera surname is Italian however
[15:43:30] <Jan-> ah, another group of traitorous colonials :)
[15:44:03] <Jan-> Ever notice how the UK either scared off or threw out a bunch of people, who went elsewhere and turned that place into a... tropical paradise... where it's... always summer...
[15:44:07] <Jan-> grrrrnnnngh
[15:44:09] * Jan- shivers
[15:46:05] <abcminiuser> Nevermind, .word and .byte seems to work now, wierd :P
[15:46:22] <Jan-> I feel so unwell :(
[15:46:34] <Jan-> It's not good for the "I should look for my RS-232 board" motivation I need
[15:46:34] <RikusW> abcminiuser: why jmp and not rjmp ?
[15:47:04] <abcminiuser> RikusW, to make damn sure this will work right regardless of compile settings
[15:47:25] <RikusW> or bootloader size...
[15:47:35] <Jan-> settings?
[15:47:39] <Jan-> there are SETTINGS!?
[15:47:43] * Jan- hides behind the couch
[15:47:45] <RikusW> is it located at the end of flash ?
[15:48:15] <abcminiuser> RikusW, the table is, through a custom section - it acts as a fixed-location jump table to the bootloader functions
[15:48:33] <abcminiuser> Hrm, I guess a rjmp is possible, worse case it's 8KB away from the table
[15:48:42] * RikusW did something similar
[15:48:47] <Jan-> does the R stand for relative?
[15:48:59] <abcminiuser> Jan-, how have you heard of me? I didn't think I'd propagated to the UK yet :P
[15:49:06] <abcminiuser> Yup, relative jump
[15:49:19] <Jan-> The AVR programmer I have says "USBTiny Mk 1.1 - LUFA Powered"
[15:49:31] <Jan-> I wondered what a LUFA was and if you could use it to scrub your back
[15:49:54] <abcminiuser> Bwahahaa
[15:50:05] <abcminiuser> Hrm, wonder who makes those
[15:50:11] <Jan-> Tom_itx
[15:50:17] <abcminiuser> I wrote the stack, and the AVRISP-MKII clone firmware
[15:50:31] <abcminiuser> Oh, I thought it was the MKII from Tom
[15:50:40] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, Jan- likes your programmer :)
[15:50:45] <Jan-> I still can't use it as I'm waiting for SOMEONE (*directs this towards the next room where the Man is watching TV&*) builds me a breadboard
[15:50:59] <Jan-> ...and I get myself an RS-232 port
[15:51:24] <Jan-> anyway I liked the fact that you didn't put a stupid license on it which stops people using it for real projects
[15:51:27] * Jan- approves of this stance
[15:55:49] <abcminiuser> Cheers Jan-, that was the point, to get my name out there
[15:55:57] <abcminiuser> I got hired by Atmel, so it worked :)
[15:56:07] <Jan-> wow
[15:56:09] <Jan-> you're a supernerd
[15:56:11] <abcminiuser> Plus it made Tom_itx my friend, so I won in the end :S
[15:56:21] <abcminiuser> Indeed, #avr is where all the cool nerds hang out
[15:56:25] <Jan-> did that mean moving to the netherlands or wherever they are
[15:56:49] * abcminiuser 's nuts are roasting from his laptop, currently compiling the entire LUFA tree and generating all the documentation
[15:57:04] <Jan-> "nobody likes roasted nuts"
[15:58:34] <abcminiuser> I'm now living in Trondheim, Norway
[15:58:45] <abcminiuser> http://fourwalledcubicle.com/AtmelApps.php
[15:58:53] <Jan-> Then I snicker at your unpreparedness for...
[15:58:56] <Jan-> WEATHERRRRR!
[15:59:02] * Jan- is turning into invader zim, slowly
[15:59:14] <Jan-> Was there painful visa nonsense?
[16:00:35] <abcminiuser> Lots of paperwork, now I can stay here for years as long as I don't change jobs
[16:02:41] <Jan-> Phil constantly gets offered jobs in LA
[16:02:46] <Jan-> but he can't do them
[16:02:58] <Jan-> it's an irritation
[16:03:27] * Jan- wonders if it's too soon for another 1000mg acetaminophen
[16:04:21] <Jan-> Predicting -12 tonight here, which is really exceptional
[16:04:32] <Jan-> I guess it's ferocious in norway
[16:04:48] <OndraSter> only -12?
[16:04:51] <OndraSter> It was -12 during the day here
[16:05:15] <Jan-> where's that, OndraSter
[16:05:18] <abcminiuser> -6 or so at the moment
[16:05:19] <OndraSter> CZE
[16:05:45] <Jan-> Czechoslovakia, the Czech Republic, or whatever it's called this week?
[16:05:52] <OndraSter> Czech Republic
[16:06:12] <Jan-> A friend of mine went to medical school in prague, she loved it
[16:06:24] <Jan-> Charles University
[16:07:04] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:07:13] <OndraSter> I am going to diff uni in Prague
[16:07:16] <OndraSter> I live in Prague :P
[16:07:22] <Jan-> Apparently there are totally-off-the-leash keggers of a friday night :D
[16:07:24] <OndraSter> well, I will be going to uni if I get there
[16:07:28] <OndraSter> :D
[16:07:41] <Jan-> oh well done. Prague gets good reviews from everyone I know who's been there.
[16:07:49] <Jan-> I have another friend who likes to go to eastern europe, and he adores Prague.
[16:08:40] <OndraSter> :)
[16:08:41] <Jan-> are there potato cakes?
[16:08:45] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:08:46] <OndraSter> surely
[16:08:53] <OndraSter> there is everything, if they can make profit from it!
[16:08:56] <Jan-> haha
[16:09:04] <Jan-> I think the cost of living was quite low
[16:09:08] <Jan-> compared to London anyway
[16:09:13] <OndraSter> in the main center it is not that cheap
[16:09:22] <OndraSter> centre
[16:09:27] <OndraSter> I live on the edge of Prague
[16:09:31] <Jan-> bramboráky, potato pancakes?
[16:09:41] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:09:44] <Jan-> she mentioned those a lot :)
[16:09:57] <Jan-> and fried cheese
[16:09:59] <Jan-> for some reason
[16:10:06] <Jan-> sounds like you guys need big meals for the cold winter nights :)
[16:10:52] * Jan- reads more on picky-weedia
[16:11:14] <Jan-> Isn't it amazing how every place has a) things with lots of sugar and fat, for dessert, and b) alcohol.
[16:11:19] <Jan-> There's some sort of universal human attraction there
[16:11:49] <OndraSter> we have beer
[16:11:50] <OndraSter> and women
[16:12:00] <Jan-> the women are of less interest to me, it's short for Janine :)
[16:12:22] <Jan-> Ha
[16:12:28] <Jan-> I must visit: "The Czech Republic has the highest beer consumption per capita in the world.[2]"
[16:12:36] <Jan-> My kinda town!
[16:12:56] <OndraSter> oh, you are woman
[16:13:00] <OndraSter> wanna go to Prague someday :D
[16:13:02] <Jan-> I think so. Let me check.
[16:13:05] <OndraSter> :D
[16:13:08] <Jan-> ...yes, I am
[16:13:15] <Jan-> I do want to go to prague, but I'll go with Phil :)
[16:14:12] <OndraSter> dang
[16:14:15] <OndraSter> :( :D
[16:14:57] <Jan-> Y'see, there's this sort of impression in western europe, which might be connected to the old communist days, that everywhere in eastern europe is kind of dismal and boring and everyone's grim all the time
[16:15:13] <Jan-> but whenever I hear about Prague, people say things like "Ooh, Prague. Beer!"
[16:15:17] <Jan-> or "Ooh, Prague. Food!"
[16:15:17] <OndraSter> :D
[16:15:22] <OndraSter> I think I will go grab beer
[16:15:26] <Jan-> *sigh*
[16:15:32] <Jan-> Grolsch!
[16:15:37] <Jan-> That's not Czech. But it's awesome.
[16:16:46] <RikusW> Jan-: so where are you from ?
[16:17:05] <Jan-> California originally
[16:17:09] <Jan-> but I live in the UK now
[16:17:15] * RikusW is South African
[16:17:42] <Jan-> Ooh.
[16:17:45] * Jan- clears her throat
[16:17:54] <Jan-> er, hoe is suid-afrika op di oomblik?
[16:17:58] <Jan-> (did that make sense?)
[16:18:17] <RikusW> ja, waar het jy afrikaans geleer ?
[16:18:23] <OndraSter> Jan-, not to me :D
[16:18:59] <Jan-> dit is bloot die nederlands, met extra rassisme :)
[16:19:00] * Jan- hides
[16:19:11] <RikusW> oooh ;)
[16:19:37] <OndraSter> me not speak you tribe the language :P
[16:20:51] <OndraSter> aand the beer is in the glas
[16:20:52] <OndraSter> glass
[16:21:01] <OndraSter> it is 14° actually, usual ones are 10 - 12
[16:21:13] <RikusW> Jan-: so how did you get to know dutch/afrikaans ?
[16:21:17] <Jan-> I don't really
[16:21:28] <Jan-> At my old job we used to do a trade show in Amsterdam every year
[16:21:30] <Jan-> that's it really
[16:22:00] <RikusW> so how many years did it take ?
[16:22:10] <Jan-> Well I worked for the company for ten
[16:22:22] <Jan-> but it wasn't so easy as everyone in amsterdam *EVERYONE* speaks English
[16:22:24] <RikusW> thats sound like enough ;)
[16:22:26] <Jan-> so you don't learn
[16:23:02] <Jan-> Sure but I only used it once a year
[16:23:09] <Jan-> I had to look up "racism" :)
[16:23:17] <Jan-> in dutch I think it's still "racism"
[16:24:57] <RikusW> afrikaans is not only a home language to whites.... in the cape there is bushmen and coloreds that use it too
[16:25:07] <RikusW> and many blacks can speak it too
[16:25:15] <Jan-> oh I know
[16:25:17] <Jan-> I was making a bad joke
[16:25:26] <RikusW> heh
[16:25:34] <Jan-> On the upside, you probably have that incredibly cute accent.
[16:26:49] <RikusW> so you like the south african english ? :)
[16:27:06] <Jan-> I like imitating accents
[16:27:10] <Jan-> and I can't do south african
[16:27:16] <Jan-> it's complicated
[16:30:20] <Jan-> Patsy Kensit did it in Lethal Weapon :/
[16:30:48] <RikusW> probably with a bit of practice...
[16:31:06] <RikusW> its amazing what the speech consultants can achieve
[16:31:44] * RikusW Watched a behind the scene video of Fringe, the actors sound quite different in real life
[16:33:16] <Jan-> the doom movie was hilarious
[16:33:20] <Jan-> almost the entire cast is english
[16:35:50] * Jan- steals OndraSter's beer
[16:35:58] <RikusW> seems south african education is down the drain 1 out of 6 grade 12 students got less than 10% for math....
[16:35:58] <OndraSter> I already finished it :P
[16:36:13] <Jan-> RikusW: wow, you're almost as dumb as us :(
[16:36:49] * RikusW did much better than that :O
[16:37:01] <karlp> -12 in the uk?
[16:37:02] * Jan- too
[16:37:08] <karlp> screw that.
[16:37:24] <karlp> it's a nice pleasant +4 here this evening.
[16:37:40] <RikusW> Jan-: so its similar in UK schools ?
[16:37:55] <RikusW> +25 here
[16:38:19] * Jan- steals all 25 of RikusW's degrees, and achieves a temperature that at least won't freeze the bollocks off a brass monkey :(
[16:39:40] <Jan-> this has to be too cheap: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-RS232-Serial-DB-9-Pin-Adapter-Vista-Window-7-/320610900227?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item4aa5e61903#ht_2733wt_1031
[16:41:34] <keenerd> Looks about right for a DX reseller.
[16:42:09] <Jan-> Hm, is that what it is d'you think
[16:42:25] <OndraSter> yes
[16:42:29] <OndraSter> 100% :P
[16:42:40] <OndraSter> there is one difference
[16:42:45] <OndraSter> if you order from DX -> it will take a month
[16:42:50] <OndraSter> if your order from him -> it will take 3 days
[16:42:51] <Jan-> well sure
[16:43:12] <Jan-> problem is we bought a PCI card with RS232 (and parallel too)
[16:43:16] <Jan-> but it didn't have windows 7 drivers
[16:43:19] <Jan-> biggus problemus
[16:43:23] <OndraSter> heh
[16:43:25] <OndraSter> no wonder
[16:43:30] <OndraSter> now try getting the drivers for w7 x64 even!
[16:43:32] <OndraSter> impossible task
[16:43:32] <Jan-> the pcie ones are kinda expenisve
[16:43:36] <keenerd> DX has a UK warehouse. Dunno if their 1£ serial adapter is stocked though.
[16:44:04] <Jan-> so where do I get a guaranteed-decent one
[16:44:46] <OndraSter> I'd say buy 5 of these
[16:44:50] <OndraSter> if they blow up - use another one :D
[16:44:50] <Jan-> well we did
[16:44:56] <Jan-> this may seem like a strange question, but...
[16:45:00] <Jan-> is it cased in transparent blue plastic
[16:45:17] <OndraSter> you mean, do you wanna see its content?
[16:45:19] <OndraSter> wanna see it naked
[16:45:22] <Jan-> CoolBeernono
[16:45:23] <OndraSter> sexy inside?
[16:45:31] <Jan-> we bought one of the blue plastic ones
[16:45:35] <Jan-> and it didn't have proper rs232 levels
[16:45:48] <OndraSter> oh
[16:45:49] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:45:51] <OndraSter> that is problem
[16:46:11] <OndraSter> generating 12V signal out from 5V USB... chinese ones don't do that
[16:46:14] <Jan-> so now we bought two of them
[16:46:16] <Jan-> and neither worked!
[16:46:18] <Jan-> wtfbbq
[16:50:53] <keenerd> They won't work.... but will they blend?
[16:50:58] <RikusW> what was the output levels ?
[16:51:06] <OndraSter> New alcohol game: If you know of yourself, DRINK!
[16:51:42] <Jan-> RikusW it was just _5v
[16:51:51] <Jan-> I'm suspicious of this:
[16:51:52] <Jan-> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-RS232-SERIAL-DB9-4-PORT-STATION-WINDOWS-7-/110808758817?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item19ccb77a21#ht_3767wt_853
[16:52:06] <Jan-> another silly question, but do they have, like, PICTURES of their FACTORY?
[16:52:09] <RikusW> and 0V ?
[16:52:11] <OndraSter> Item location: default, default, Hong Kong
[16:52:26] <RikusW> Jan-: maybe its ttl levels ?
[16:52:31] <Jan-> I think so
[16:52:38] <OndraSter> definitely TTL
[16:52:42] <Jan-> I could possibly just get a max232 and integrate it on the board
[16:52:43] <Jan-> but ffs
[16:52:52] <Jan-> I should've just got an arduino :(
[16:53:04] <RikusW> why do you need +-12V ?
[16:53:15] <Jan-> Maximal awesomeness would actually be to have it have on board usb... paging abcminiuser
[16:53:39] <RikusW> normally you need ttl to connect to avr ?
[16:53:56] <OndraSter> sterNiX stole half of my nickname!
[16:54:00] <specing> Its cheapest to get an usb AVR and program it to function as a USB-Serial converter
[16:54:28] <abcminiuser> Mmmm?
[16:54:34] <keenerd> Jan-: Check out Teensy. Built in USB and programmer.
[16:54:37] <RikusW> or get an old pc....
[16:54:47] <OndraSter> old PCs ftw
[16:54:52] <OndraSter> you have got no idea how much old stuff do I have here
[16:54:57] <OndraSter> with parallel and serial ports
[16:54:59] <OndraSter> that nobody wants
[16:55:08] * RikusW too.,,,
[16:55:14] <sterNiX> OndraSter☣ u want to settle this like big corporations or like civilised men?
[16:55:18] <RikusW> maybe 20 old pc's
[16:55:19] <OndraSter> (800MHz - 1.2GHz few, the rest is absolute scrap as 486/P I)
[16:55:19] <Jan-> this is the first PC I ever owned that didn't have an rs232 port
[16:55:21] <Jan-> that's crappy
[16:55:23] <RikusW> or more....
[16:55:32] <OndraSter> sterNiX, wanna get a lawyer? :D
[16:55:51] <OndraSter> Jan-, I actually found out that even new motherboard (MSI P67A-C45, Sandybridge) has serial port
[16:55:55] <OndraSter> but TTL levels is my bet
[16:56:01] <Jan-> if I used an avr that had usb on it, would the person have to install the ftdi driver and treat it as a serial device, or do I then get a "proper" USB device
[16:56:02] <OndraSter> would have to check manual
[16:56:08] <sterNiX> OndraSter☣ have mine at hand
[16:56:16] <OndraSter> sterNiX, can't afford mine
[16:56:19] <OndraSter> enjy your nick :P
[16:56:24] <RikusW> Jan-: look on the motherboard itself for a little chip with 75232 on it
[16:56:31] <RikusW> that is the serial level converter
[16:56:57] <RikusW> there will be a 2x5 header with one pin missing
[16:56:58] * sterNiX crushes OndraSter like mr burns crushes a paper cup, or tries to :D
[16:57:07] <sterNiX> OndraSter☣ what does ur nick mean btw?
[16:57:15] <keenerd> Jan-: Either. The ones with USB can pretend to be any sort of device.
[16:58:43] <Jan-> ooooOOOOOooooo
[16:58:52] <Jan-> I wonder how I'd write the computer side code though
[16:59:10] <Jan-> rs232 is easy
[16:59:18] <OndraSter> sterNiX, Ondra = my real first name (Andrew), Ster was given to it when I was registering at gmail many, many, many years ago
[16:59:19] <keenerd> Wow, I did not think my font had the biohazard symbol. Thanks sterNiX.
[16:59:31] <RikusW> there is USB CDC that imitates a serial port
[17:00:11] <keenerd> Jan-: Take a look at LUFA. There is no end to how deep the rabbit hole goes.
[17:00:21] <Jan-> keenerd: I get the picture
[17:00:37] <Jan-> but - sob, wail - I stil ldon't have an rs232 I/O on my PC
[17:00:38] <Jan-> that sucks
[17:00:55] <Jan-> why is this so hard?!
[17:01:01] <sterNiX> keenerd☣ it should support more --> http://thenextweb.com/TwitterKeys/keys.php
[17:01:36] <OndraSter> I read in FTDI's note that if you write them, they will give you 8 custom PIDs
[17:01:37] <sterNiX> OndraSter☣ sternit is latin for to strike with --> http://translate.google.com/#la|en|sternit
[17:01:45] <OndraSter> I did write them email, no reply :(
[17:02:08] <keenerd> Yay, almost all of those symbols appear in elinks.
[17:02:15] <OndraSter> lol, "ster" means in dutch "star" in english
[17:02:17] <OndraSter> w00t
[17:02:48] <RikusW> OndraSter: you didn't know that ?
[17:02:59] <OndraSter> considering that I don't speak dutch... nope
[17:06:37] <sterNiX> have great weekend everyone :)
[17:06:49] <Jan-> wow
[17:06:56] <Jan-> there's an rs232 thing here with EIGHT PORTS
[17:07:01] <Jan-> excessive much?
[17:07:21] <RikusW> yup
[17:07:28] <Jan-> OK so what do I do here guys
[17:07:29] <Jan-> I'm stuck
[17:13:56] <RikusW> check you motherboard manual, there might be a comport pinheader on it
[17:16:06] <keenerd> True, most desktops still have a header for that.
[17:16:15] <OndraLappy> yeah
[17:16:17] <OndraLappy> like I said
[17:16:22] <OndraLappy> even my Sandybridge has header
[17:16:31] <OndraLappy> but TTL output levels I think
[17:16:39] <keenerd> Even my mini-itx e250 has a serial header.
[17:16:45] <RikusW> check for a GD 75232 ic
[17:16:51] <RikusW> its the level converter
[17:16:58] <RikusW> used by most mb's
[17:17:18] <RikusW> should be close to the header
[17:17:32] <OndraLappy> it is usually in the manual, too
[17:18:48] <RikusW> you'll only need the cable to the backpanel
[17:19:06] <OndraLappy> I have like 1000000 of those from old 486 PCs
[17:19:35] <RikusW> beware not all of them are the same
[17:19:44] <OndraLappy> as long as the pinout is the same..
[17:19:46] <RikusW> there is 2 different ways of wiring those
[17:20:27] <RikusW> 123 on the length or width of the connector
[17:37:08] <bronson> Scrubbing compiled C code... Is the following the best way to set a register bit to a variable?
[17:38:03] <bronson> sbrs r24,0; rjmp .+4; sbi 0x06,4; rjmp .+2; cbi 0x06,4
[17:38:12] <Jan-> Oh god :/
[17:38:21] <bronson> there's got to be a better way right?
[17:38:37] <Jan-> I have no idea. I'm just scared of the techiness.
[17:39:12] <bronson> picture: if(var) { set_bit(); } else { clear_bit(); }
[17:39:33] <bronson> seems like there should be a way of doing bit = var
[17:39:52] <RikusW> you could use T in SREG
[17:40:28] <Jan-> seirously guys
[17:40:35] <Jan-> this RS232 thing is actually stopping me getting anywhere
[17:40:55] <Tom_itx> ft232 will get you serial i think
[17:41:03] <OndraLappy> but TTL again
[17:41:03] <Tom_itx> err some variant of it
[17:41:07] <Jan-> I have one of your serial dongles.
[17:41:12] <Jan-> I need to plug it into my PC, but my PC has no serial port
[17:41:14] * Tom_itx checks his dongles
[17:41:28] <raek> bronson: you need something more advanced than this? if(var) { R |= (1<<bit); } else { R &= ~(1<<bit) }
[17:41:28] <Jan-> I think it's just basically a max232 in a db9 connector shell
[17:41:34] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:41:52] <OndraLappy> Tom_itx: how do you store your remaining solder paste? In normal fridge?
[17:41:58] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:42:07] <Tom_itx> or laying out on the desk until it turns to cement
[17:42:11] <OndraLappy> :D
[17:42:19] <Tom_itx> then i add alcohol
[17:42:23] <OndraLappy> yay alcohol
[17:42:25] <Tom_itx> and let it sit overnight
[17:42:50] <Tom_itx> it's not as good as new but it still works
[17:42:53] <bronson> raek: the compiler isn't optimizing that if statement... setting one bit shouldn't take 10 bytes, should it?
[17:43:00] <RikusW> bronson: BLD BST might help
[17:43:09] <bronson> (reading up on RikusW's suggestion)
[17:43:20] <Tom_itx> OndraLappy, i've got a couple spares in the frige
[17:43:34] <OndraLappy> those $3 dealextreme I presume
[17:43:41] <Tom_itx> yep
[17:43:43] <OndraLappy> sexy :)
[17:43:48] <RikusW> BST then BRTC/BRTS
[17:43:48] <Tom_itx> cheaper if you get 3
[17:43:50] <Jan-> spare whats?
[17:43:53] <raek> bronson: what kind of register is it? and what optimization level do you use?
[17:43:55] <OndraLappy> let's see how fast can they process small order
[17:44:00] <OndraLappy> with just the solder paste
[17:44:07] <Tom_itx> pretty quick for HK
[17:44:14] <bronson> raek: -Os and it's PIND bit 3
[17:44:16] <RikusW> err well, brbs already does that...
[17:44:25] <raek> hrm
[17:44:35] <RikusW> *sbrs
[17:44:35] <Tom_itx> Janine: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/lodestar-soldering-paste-50g-4711
[17:44:46] <Jan-> Solder paste.
[17:44:50] <Jan-> Not an RS232 adaptor, then.
[17:44:55] <raek> I would expect it to compile into the assebly code you showed before...
[17:44:59] <Jan-> I bought a cheap one of those and it is wrong
[17:45:19] <RikusW> bronson: sbrs cbi sbrc sbi
[17:45:54] <RikusW> will give you a constant time through it every time
[17:46:11] <bronson> RikusW: true, and it's 8 bytes instead of 10.
[17:46:44] <bronson> better but wow, I'm surprised it takes more than 4 bytes. owell, thanks for the help!
[17:47:08] <RikusW> what do you need to do ?
[17:47:36] <RikusW> there might be a faster way depending on what needs to be done
[17:48:04] <bronson> RikusW: I have a register that's either 0 or 1... I want to set PIND bit 3 to match.
[17:48:30] <RikusW> and do you care about the other pins on portd ?
[17:48:51] <bronson> RikusW: yes, I'm using the other pins
[17:49:26] <RikusW> that complicates things...
[17:49:32] <raek> I can't think of any other way of combining the instructions available
[17:49:52] <Tom_itx> i wonder what other boards hobbyists would be interested in
[17:50:12] <Jan-> are you thinking of manufacturing one?
[17:50:32] <Tom_itx> i started to do some several years back
[17:50:33] <raek> so either I have bad imagination or the AVR instruction set is not built to do this operation with a very few number of instructions
[17:50:36] <raek> :-)
[17:50:37] <RikusW> bronson: what avr are you using ?
[17:50:46] <Jan-> how about a USB to RS232 thing that actually WOOOORKS
[17:50:51] * Jan- runs around in circles, waving her arms
[17:51:06] <Tom_itx> umm, lufa does that
[17:51:17] <Jan-> lufa is a piece of software
[17:51:19] <Tom_itx> all you need is a usb avr
[17:51:20] <Jan-> not a hardware device
[17:51:22] <bronson> Yeah, BLD -> T -> BST seems to be the best.
[17:51:53] <Tom_itx> Jan- http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[17:51:57] <bronson> RikusW: a few. prototyping on a Teensy (usb1286), trying to cram it into an attiny20
[17:52:08] <Tom_itx> should work on that
[17:52:12] <Tom_itx> i've never needed one
[17:52:21] <Jan-> dagnammit
[17:52:28] <Tom_itx> and if it doesn't work, you can bitch at dean
[17:52:32] <Jan-> I wish you'd said I needed one of those when I ordered all this other stuff from you
[17:52:39] <bronson> I have it running on an atmega328p, that was easy. reducing the # of pins that I'm using, that's hard.
[17:52:49] <Tom_itx> well we didn't know you needed a rs232 port
[17:53:06] <Jan-> Well, I bought the RS232 dongle!
[17:53:15] <Tom_itx> yep
[17:53:26] <Jan-> Unfortunately my PC lacks an appropriate hole
[17:53:27] <Tom_itx> that would be a good indication that you had a rs232 port
[17:53:29] <Jan-> and it seems that nobody makes one
[17:53:39] <Jan-> or at least not one that is actually correct rs232
[17:53:41] <Jan-> and has win7 drivers
[17:54:34] <bronson> Tom_itx: that looks like a sweet board. A teensier teensy?
[17:54:50] <raek> do the FTDI-based "adapter" cables sometimes come configured with weird voltage levels / inverted levels?
[17:55:07] <Tom_itx> http://www.superlogics.com/sl_cat.asp?cat=43
[17:55:07] <raek> (USB to RS232 cables, that is)
[17:55:34] <RikusW> bronson: you know about the PIND = 0x08; toggle trick ?
[17:55:53] <RikusW> it will toggle the PORTD3 pin
[17:56:07] <RikusW> it only works on newer avrs so check the datasheet
[17:56:17] <RikusW> but it should work on m328
[17:56:20] <Jan-> Tom_itx: Hrrm.
[17:56:26] <Jan-> Many options!
[17:56:36] <Jan-> But do they have proper voltage levels and are there windows 7 drivers
[17:56:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.generalstandards.com/serialio3.php?config=yellow_green
[17:56:43] <bronson> RikusW: wow, interesting. probably not an attiny20 tho.
[17:56:48] <Tom_itx> that one might
[17:57:07] <RikusW> like the 6 pin avr ?
[17:57:22] <RikusW> it will yes
[17:57:35] <Jan-> See, I bought the USB one, and it was wrong
[17:57:47] <bronson> very cool. but it doesn't help my immediate question about copying a value to a pin :)
[17:57:51] <Jan-> so then I bought the PCI one, which would have been right (we looked up the kind of chip it used, which had onboard RS232 line drivers)
[17:57:56] <Jan-> but there were no drivers
[17:57:58] <bronson> I can live with BLD/BST, that seems pretty good.
[17:58:10] <RikusW> bronson: so use 0 and 0x08 in that variable and use it to toggle the pin ?
[17:58:44] <RikusW> PIND = old ^ new;
[17:58:44] <bronson> Now if I could just figure out a way of getting the C compiler to use BLD/BST...
[17:58:57] * Tom_itx notices smoke rolling from the kitchen and assumes dinner is ready
[17:58:59] <bronson> RikusW: hm, could be
[17:59:34] <OndraLappy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-PC-Beverage-Cooler-Warmer-Refrigerator-FUSBFD01-/110699260433?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c630aa11
[17:59:36] <OndraLappy> how much does this work?
[17:59:42] <OndraLappy> WOuld be cool for keeping beer in the summer
[18:00:02] <Casper> no
[18:00:12] <OndraLappy> 2.5W Peltier
[18:00:13] <OndraLappy> I know
[18:00:57] <RikusW> bronson: what is pin d3 used for ?
[18:01:25] <bronson> hm, that's not the easiest change... I'm OK with the bigger code.
[18:02:28] <bronson> RikusW: motor controller, sets direction
[18:03:18] <RikusW> and you use a switch to change direction ?
[18:03:42] <RikusW> or some command ?
[18:04:11] <bronson> sure enough, page 72 of the atusb1286: "writing a logic one to a bit in the PINx Register, will result in a toggle in the corresponding bit in the Data Register."
[18:04:18] <bronson> that's a good trick.
[18:05:15] <bronson> RikusW: computed internally
[18:05:26] <bronson> (based on sensor input and time)
[18:06:11] <Jan-> good god do I really have to pay the equivalent of US$150 for a serial card :(
[18:06:23] <RikusW> you might be able to use the toggle trick and loose the variable
[18:07:11] <bronson> RikusW: yes, it's definitely possible. but this code is already complex enough.
[18:07:16] <jacekowski> OndraLappy: it's probably more than 2.5W ( a lot of desktop PCs don't really limit current on usb port )
[18:07:28] <OndraLappy> there are some "charging" options
[18:07:30] <bronson> keeping track of a desire-to-toggle instead of a value is moving in the wrong direction. :)
[18:07:34] <OndraLappy> like shorting out D+ and D- lines
[18:07:39] <OndraLappy> and it gives you like 1A or 1.5A
[18:08:09] <jacekowski> charging has nothing to do with it
[18:08:16] <OndraLappy> it is charging mode
[18:08:22] <OndraLappy> supposedly
[18:08:28] <OndraLappy> for charging devices
[18:08:30] <jacekowski> that cooler?
[18:08:31] <keenerd> Jan-: What slots/ports do you have? I new pci(e) card is only $20.
[18:08:36] <OndraLappy> dunno how that cooler
[18:08:41] <OndraLappy> but USB specifications
[18:08:44] <OndraLappy> at least I read about it somewhere
[18:08:44] <jacekowski> or i'm missing something
[18:08:51] <jacekowski> charging spec is different thing
[18:08:59] <jacekowski> and that's for dedicated chargers
[18:09:02] <jacekowski> PCs can't charge
[18:09:04] <Jan-> keenerd: the issue is I need a) proper RS232 voltage levels, and b) windows 7 64 bit drivers
[18:09:12] <Jan-> this seems basically impossible
[18:09:16] <jacekowski> PCs are limited to 0.5A by spec
[18:09:23] <jacekowski> though a lot of them can deliver more
[18:09:30] <OndraLappy> jacekowski: ah, I knew it wouldn't be so easy... that webpage wasn't entirely precise appearantly
[18:09:32] <Jan-> I bought two devices in the hope they'd work, but they didn't (one had the wrong voltage, the other lacked win7 drivers)
[18:09:37] <OndraLappy> USB3 is like 900mA now
[18:09:37] <RikusW> bronson: seems that sbrs cbi sbrc sbi would be the smallest possible solution then...
[18:09:55] <jacekowski> OndraLappy: well, read the official spec
[18:10:00] <jacekowski> OndraLappy: it's somewhere on usb.org
[18:10:07] <OndraLappy> will do sometime
[18:10:21] <jacekowski> firewire is much bette
[18:10:37] <OndraLappy> but fw lost to USB :P
[18:10:43] <OndraLappy> way more USB peripherals
[18:10:52] <jacekowski> mostly because usb was slower
[18:10:52] <bronson> RikusW: smaller than BLD/BSD? I think that's 4 bytes.
[18:10:59] <bronson> er, BST
[18:10:59] <keenerd> Jan-: Every pcie serial card I found on newegg had win7 drivers and they seems to do proper rs232 as well.
[18:11:03] <jacekowski> and therefore less complicated to implement
[18:11:08] <Jan-> I'm in the UK
[18:11:37] <jacekowski> but firewire could deliver up to 45
[18:11:39] <Jan-> I'd buy from china and wait
[18:11:39] <jacekowski> 45W
[18:11:44] <RikusW> bronson: BST only access registers not io...
[18:11:50] <OndraLappy> 12V and few amps, ye
[18:11:52] <Jan-> but you can never tell if it'll be correct
[18:11:53] <bronson> RikusW: DOH
[18:11:57] <jacekowski> 30V and 1.5A
[18:12:00] <OndraLappy> even!
[18:12:07] <bronson> right.
[18:13:02] <Steffanx> left
[18:13:07] <OndraLappy> middle?
[18:13:09] <bronson> yeah, 8 bytes seems to be the best. that's ok, I can live with that.
[18:14:20] <bronson> far Komen right
[18:15:27] <Jan-> I'm going to sleep.
[18:15:30] <Steffanx> Gn
[18:15:37] <Jan-> I've spent an ENTIRE EVENING trying to find an rs232 adaptor of any kind
[18:15:40] <Jan-> bah!
[18:16:14] <RikusW> bronson: BST IN BLD OUT
[18:16:20] <RikusW> also 8 bytes
[18:17:00] <bronson> RikusW: yes, maybe even 6.
[18:17:16] <bronson> depending on how the C compiler allocates values.
[18:17:19] <keenerd> Jan-: There are gobs of them. I'd have a local link, but aria.co.uk keeps crashing my silly browser.
[18:17:46] <RikusW> bronson: not sure if gcc use T
[18:17:47] <OndraLappy> what browser is that, keenerd? To know which one I should laugh at
[18:17:59] <RikusW> if it don't that may become your variable...
[18:18:01] <bronson> Jan-: rs232 is awful. I love so much never having to deal with DTR and all that mess.
[18:18:44] <keenerd> OndraLappy: You've probably never heard he joke would be lost.
[18:19:10] <OndraLappy> ??
[18:19:23] <keenerd> *heard of it, the joke
[18:19:35] <OndraLappy> oh
[18:19:40] <RikusW> bronson: CLT SET
[18:20:09] <keenerd> Oh wait. Jan left. And never even said what ports/sockets mattered. Lame. Super easy problem too.
[18:21:01] <OndraLappy> what about
[18:21:03] <bronson> RikusW: ha, that's a hell of an idea.
[18:21:12] <OndraLappy> ldi r16, 0x08
[18:21:24] <OndraLappy> sbrc rx, x
[18:21:31] <OndraLappy> out addr, r16
[18:21:49] <OndraLappy> did I miss just something
[18:21:58] <OndraLappy> (the sbrc -- your own regs)
[18:22:09] <OndraLappy> it is night here, too sleepy to think properly
[18:23:31] <RikusW> OndraLappy: and clearing the bit ?
[18:23:45] <OndraLappy> hmm
[18:23:49] <OndraLappy> right
[18:28:32] <OndraLappy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-60W-TEC1-12706-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Peltier-/330616448948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfa46a7b4
[18:28:35] <OndraLappy> that's... cheap
[18:29:14] <OndraLappy> they are locally for $8
[19:07:43] <multiplex> /reload
[19:07:47] <multiplex> /reload
[19:14:18] <karlp> eject! eject!
[19:16:06] <impulze> wut
[19:20:40] <buhman> where do I buy individual atmegas?
[19:21:37] <Tom_itx> digikey, mouser but it wouldn't be worth it
[19:32:51] <multiplex> sorry for /reload, i'm setting my new irc
[19:33:24] * bronson ordered some attiny20s from digikey, $8 inc. priority mail shipping
[19:34:15] <Tom_itx> iirc digikey used to have a $25 min. did they lift that?
[19:34:54] <keenerd> Yes. I just got $19 of stuff from them yesterday.
[19:35:22] <Tom_itx> I wouldn't know as they always seem to get more than that from me
[19:36:13] <keenerd> They guilt me into buying extras of parts because I feel bad when there is a big bag, moisture card and dessicant all for a single SMD part :-)
[19:41:43] <Tom_itx> mouser has been seeing me alot more lately as most of what i get is cheaper there
[19:43:00] <keenerd> Thanks to Octopart I think I've accounts with just about everyone now :-)
[19:54:05] <rue_mohr> amee2k, I'm back
[22:06:23] <bronson> TIMSK0 &= ~(1 << TOIE0); correctly produces lds andi sts
[22:07:18] <bronson> so why doesn't TIMSK0 |= (1 << TOIE0); produce lds ori sts ?
[22:09:37] <Casper> what does it produce?
[22:10:22] <bronson> Casper: it uses the Z register. pastie coming up
[22:10:57] <bronson> https://gist.github.com/1735204
[22:12:06] <bronson> I'm still an AVR instruction set noob...
[22:12:36] <Casper> that does seems weird
[22:13:24] <Casper> no idea
[22:13:59] <bronson> Yeah, why would you ever "ldi r31, 0x00" ???
[22:14:09] <bronson> if the high byte is 0, then don't uze the Z reg.
[22:14:26] <bronson> bizarre.
[22:17:31] <Casper> yeah
[22:17:54] <Casper> try to upgrade your avr-gcc and avr-libc... who knows...
[22:25:48] <bronson> I'm on avr-gcc (GCC) 4.5.3. I guess I could play with 4.6.2 but I'm skeptical...
[22:27:17] <bronson> No changes to avr? http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.6/changes.html