#avr | Logs for 2012-01-23

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[02:18:31] <HKCMD> how to update time in RTC using push button ? in http://pastebin.com/ZxVaTbiu ?
[02:28:49] <Kevin`> HKCMD: my most recent project does that, but I use a numeric keypad array as input, because time-entry is a frequent operation
[02:41:13] * amee2k is contemplating SNTP
[02:58:48] <HKCMD> ok
[02:59:15] <amee2k> SNTP over SLIP might be an idea, no?
[02:59:54] <HKCMD> in case of 1307, when we update seconds , then automatically others get updated ?
[03:01:08] <amee2k> "1307"?
[03:02:36] <HKCMD> ds1307
[03:02:39] <HKCMD> RTC
[03:03:29] <amee2k> oh
[03:48:25] <Roklobsta> gps gives good time too. use gprmc or gpzda
[03:48:30] <Roklobsta> with pps
[05:05:34] <spow> hey. I have a global variable declared as volatile static. I'm trying to change its state in an interrupt, but nothing happens. What could I have missed ?
[06:14:06] <zi> Does this mean I have crappy wiring? http://sprunge.us/WbGH
[06:14:56] <karlp> maybe.
[06:15:02] <karlp> or no clocks
[06:18:56] <zi> Hmm, should the red light be on?
[06:23:48] <zi> on usbasp
[06:26:31] <raek> or no power supplied to the avr
[07:01:44] <Sgt_Lemming> home now, and fsck I'm tired and sore
[09:48:56] <amee2k> sweet! i've got a new toy :)
[09:49:17] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2ZA/2012-01-23-153414.jpg
[09:50:10] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2ZQ/2012-01-23-154011.jpg
[09:50:18] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2Zg/2012-01-23-154910.jpg
[09:50:35] <amee2k> microscopic usb webcam \o/
[09:51:54] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2aw/2012-01-23-154644.jpg
[09:52:32] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2bw/2012-01-23-155138.jpg
[09:52:41] * amee2k shuts up now
[09:59:34] <inflex> nice clarity
[10:00:05] <amee2k> yep
[10:00:09] <amee2k> http://www.conrad.at/ce/de/product/191233/DIGITAL-MIKROSKOPKAMERA-13-USB-200X
[10:00:23] <amee2k> it cost 150 when i noticed it at their store like one or two years ago
[10:00:27] <amee2k> though mmh pretty cool but most definitely not for that price
[10:00:57] <inflex> I should one day rig up my Fujifilm S5700, since it has "ultramacro"
[10:01:58] <amee2k> extremely handy for ass tiny smt components. especially since you can make a snapshot of the ic markings for later reference, as opposed to with a normal magnifying glass
[10:04:30] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V2dg/2012-01-23-161138.jpg http://ompldr.org/vY2V2eA/2012-01-23-161017.jpg << it has two magnification settings which are identified as 10x and 200x
[10:04:56] <powderhound> What's the pitch on that second one (154011)?
[10:05:30] <amee2k> lemme check
[10:07:38] <inflex> whatI also like about using a cam, you can often pick out the laser engraving on the chips a lot better
[10:07:40] <amee2k> does 0.4mm make sense?
[10:08:07] <amee2k> 44 pins on one side and measures 17.4mm across the outtermost pins
[10:08:12] <powderhound> I think that sounds right
[10:08:33] <powderhound> I can see how that camera could be really useful
[10:09:08] <amee2k> i don't know what size those two resistors are, but i don't think they're larger than 0805
[10:09:30] <amee2k> inflex: my old trick was to put some white thermal paste on and rub it off with my thumb
[10:09:51] <amee2k> the engraving process leaves slight indentations in the surface and the paste catches in that
[10:10:31] <amee2k> also, holding it at different angles helps too, sometimes quite significantly
[10:11:51] <inflex> Yes, the angle trick ismostly what I use
[10:13:37] <amee2k> the thermal grease works very well on some parts too. depends a bit on how deep the engraving is
[10:14:30] <amee2k> but a combination of both almost always does it. but this webcam thing is extremely handy for making tiny markings on QFN or BGA parts visible
[10:15:24] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3NQ/2012-01-23-153701.jpg
[10:16:19] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3Nw/2012-01-23-155558.jpg << this one is one of my favourites
[10:17:17] <amee2k> white cree XR-C series
[10:18:32] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3OQ/2012-01-23-155804.jpg << this is another XR-C that i damaged during soldering. the lense cracked, probably due to overheating
[10:19:09] <amee2k> it still runs and no noticable change in output pattern either
[10:20:49] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3ZA/2012-01-23-155003.jpg << corner of the cpu socket on an old laptop mainboard
[10:21:03] <amee2k> but don't ask me what type of socket :P
[10:21:39] <Bushman> amee2k: a toy?
[10:21:42] <Bushman> hmm...
[10:21:52] <Bushman> http://www.bushman.pl/photos/misc/micro/led.jpg
[10:21:53] <amee2k> what.
[10:22:00] <amee2k> it was only 49.99 or so
[10:22:08] <Bushman> http://www.bushman.pl/photos/misc/micro/mask.jpg
[10:22:18] <Bushman> http://www.bushman.pl/photos/misc/micro/res.jpg
[10:22:19] <amee2k> nice LED :)
[10:22:36] <Bushman> it was only $5 or so
[10:22:47] <amee2k> lots of "real" toys are more expensive lol
[10:22:53] <amee2k> Bushman: the LED? o.O
[10:23:00] <Bushman> no, the cam
[10:23:03] <amee2k> ah
[10:23:10] <amee2k> nice shot
[10:23:48] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3aQ/2012-01-23-160237.jpg
[10:24:26] <amee2k> ooh, any ST semi fans here?
[10:24:28] <Bushman> http://www.bushman.pl/photos/misc/micro/big.jpg
[10:24:31] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3ZQ/2012-01-23-162521.jpg
[10:24:32] <amee2k> >_>
[10:25:17] <amee2k> VGA is a bit meh for reading tiny markings though
[10:25:37] <Bushman> your $49.99 cam is only slightly better quality to my $5 one
[10:26:06] <amee2k> welcome to conrad. thats industry quality for ya
[10:26:17] <amee2k> it probably cost them 7$ >_>
[10:27:20] <Bushman> and mine has smoothly adjusted mutiplication
[10:28:04] <powderhound> Bushman: what are you using?
[10:28:17] <amee2k> mine has magnification and focus adjust in one knob but thats fine for me
[10:28:19] <Bushman> *magnification
[10:28:53] <Bushman> powderhound: a webcam with non-standard lens
[10:28:55] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3ag/2012-01-23-162012.jpg \o/
[10:29:18] <powderhound> Ahh
[10:29:23] <Bushman> not focused
[10:29:37] <Bushman> amee2k: you can do better than that crap
[10:30:05] <amee2k> yeah, i made that shot in the middle of a breadboard and couldn't get the focus right
[10:30:09] <amee2k> >_<
[10:31:12] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3bQ/2012-01-23-162040.jpg
[10:31:59] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3bg/2012-01-23-163111.jpg << ooh, can you guess what this one is?
[10:32:46] <Bushman> rj(45?)
[10:32:52] <amee2k> yep
[10:33:05] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3bw/2012-01-23-163203.jpg << the contacts on this ethernet cable
[10:34:03] <Bushman> why are you using 'B' type?
[10:34:11] <amee2k> "b type"?
[10:34:33] <Bushman> type 'B' color scheme
[10:34:58] <amee2k> dunno, it was a piece of patch cable i had around
[10:35:46] <amee2k> i got it for free somewhere... somehow i have a way of accumulating free ethernet cables >_<
[10:35:51] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V3cg/2012-01-23-161630.jpg << dual filament H4 headlight bbulb
[10:37:38] <Bushman> send me few...
[10:37:48] <Bushman> ... bunches
[10:37:52] <amee2k> lol
[10:38:06] <Bushman> ... of hundreds
[10:38:25] <amee2k> i wish people would name tag their cables... sometimes i'm really starting to feel bad about it
[10:39:17] <Bushman> why wonät you tag them when you get them_
[10:39:50] <amee2k> ...
[10:42:24] <Bushman> remind me to not use finnish layout when talking to you
[10:42:38] <OndraSter> ey
[10:42:41] <OndraSter> Eagle 6.1.0 out?!
[10:42:42] <OndraSter> lol
[10:42:43] <amee2k> why not?
[10:43:51] <Bushman> won't != wonät
[10:44:09] <Bushman> that's why
[10:44:16] <amee2k> lol
[10:48:40] <amee2k> sup OndraSter
[10:50:48] <OndraSter> I've split the driver board to two halves
[10:50:55] <OndraSter> each with 6 A6275s
[10:51:01] <OndraSter> if I am getting 5x10 boards, ten of them
[10:51:11] <OndraSter> why not use four instead just two from it :P
[10:51:20] <OndraSter> and have all the space you need
[10:54:36] <chisight> is ATtiny167 a decent choice for a new design? primary function is to set some switches, take ADC readings and transfer them to a radio on SPI.
[10:55:18] <chisight> dev environment is linux
[10:55:50] <amee2k> 0.0
[10:56:19] <impulze> 1.9
[10:56:36] <amee2k> OndraSter: 10 boards is quite a fat stack
[10:56:41] <OndraSter> ye
[10:56:44] <OndraSter> they do not make less
[10:56:45] <chisight> 6.9 ??
[10:57:04] <OndraSter> did anyone just say 69
[10:57:25] <amee2k> chisight: from what i can see avr is quite well supported under linux
[10:57:39] <amee2k> as far as toolchain support goes anyway
[10:58:02] <keenerd> I have not found a better supported micro.
[10:58:39] <amee2k> GCC has pretty solid ARM support, but getting it flashed on the MCU is another matter
[10:58:43] <chisight> i'm liking avr for just that reason, i'm an ex pic user.
[10:59:06] <amee2k> yeah, thats why i picked AVR for getting started with MCUs too
[10:59:14] <chisight> arm is probably overkill for such a simple task, isn't it?
[10:59:32] <amee2k> probably
[10:59:37] <amee2k> ...
[10:59:42] <amee2k> huge lol at atmel's website
[10:59:47] <amee2k> Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03e9'
[10:59:47] <amee2k> Out of memory
[10:59:48] <amee2k> /dyn/general/search_results.asp, line 0
[11:00:27] <chisight> so the ATtiny167 isn't out of date, slated to be dropped, replaced by something better/cheaper or anything like that?
[11:00:42] <chisight> <-- new to avr.
[11:01:03] <inflex> 167
[11:01:04] <inflex> ?
[11:01:16] <inflex> if you mean the atmega168 otoh, no, it's still very current.
[11:01:23] <keenerd> Usually Atmel's webiste will tell you things like that.
[11:01:31] <amee2k> not that i'm aware of it being deprecated. it isn't available in DIP but that may or may not be a problem for you
[11:01:49] <chisight> 167. big brother of the ATtiny87
[11:01:53] <amee2k> if you just take ADC readings and shove them out on SPI, it looks a bit on the large side imo
[11:02:14] <amee2k> my favourite for small time stuff is tiny24/44
[11:02:35] <chisight> let me guess, tiny24 is 24 pins???
[11:02:47] <amee2k> no, 20 i think
[11:03:14] <keenerd> chisight: What features are you looking for? http://codoba.net/avr/ to help choose.
[11:03:16] <OndraSter> tiny13a anyone? :D
[11:03:23] <amee2k> the type designations are of the form "<series><amount of flash in kbytes><series subtype>"
[11:03:36] * inflex uses the T13's a lot
[11:04:01] <inflex> amee2k: a shame the 24/44 didn't gain more popularity though
[11:04:02] <amee2k> so attiny167 would be attiny series, 16k flash, X7 subseries
[11:04:05] <OndraSter> hmmm how wise is to drop port when you have JTAG port on it?
[11:04:12] <chisight> 20 would be enough... the pins are 7 pins to talk to the setup switches. 2 power, 1 voltage reference, 4 for the spi radio, and 3 for icsp
[11:04:33] <karlp> 24/44/84 is nice,
[11:04:37] <chisight> is the x7 subseries important?
[11:04:45] <amee2k> yes, quite
[11:05:11] <amee2k> there really are only a handful large series, namely attiny, atmega, xmega err... did i miss any?
[11:05:15] <karlp> had some unexpected diffs vs the 45/85 though, voltage references or something?
[11:05:20] <OndraSter> avr32 series
[11:05:30] <keenerd> AT90
[11:05:31] <inflex> I wish that there was a T25 + 16-bit timer though, in SO8 or, better yet, SOT23-8
[11:05:44] <amee2k> but there are megaX0/X1/X4/X8/...
[11:05:59] <amee2k> which differ quite significantly in features
[11:06:03] <chisight> i was counting on an external vref for the adc. i need one for the op amp anyway so i figured i'd be best off using the same reference.
[11:06:05] <karlp> anyone know a good calculator that can do signed/unsigned 32/64 bit maths for me?
[11:06:21] <amee2k> tinyX4 has an aref pin iirc
[11:06:22] <karlp> gcalctool is proving less than desirable.
[11:06:49] <amee2k> i tend to use octave as general purpose calculator app quite frequently
[11:07:05] <keenerd> Python3 is nice as well.
[11:07:05] <amee2k> sure beats bc IMO
[11:07:38] <karlp> python2 doesn't really know abotu signed unsigned though right?
[11:07:48] <karlp> or about word size?
[11:08:01] <keenerd> Add a mod wrapper ;-)
[11:08:23] <karlp> I'm trying to test some c code, not write bugs in python.
[11:08:29] <keenerd> Also, python2 sucks as a general calculator (integer division).
[11:08:38] <chisight> i'm not finding a info on the x4 vs 7x etc via google, is there a good source to tell me about it?
[11:08:58] <amee2k> (side note, the notation "tinyX4" is frequently used to describe attiny series, sub-series 4, but no specific flash size. i.e. you can't order a tinyX4, only tiny24/44/...)
[11:09:00] <karlp> have a bunch of uint16_ts I need to pull signed and unsigned 32 and 64 bit numbers out of.
[11:09:12] <amee2k> chisight: datasheets
[11:09:49] <amee2k> datasheets are pretty much the authoritative source of type-specific information
[11:10:17] <chisight> i have the 167's sheet open. i don't see anything about "x7" anywhere.
[11:11:30] <amee2k> as i noted above "tinyX7" would be a shorthand for all tiny87/167/... because they only differ in flash size
[11:11:46] <chisight> :\ i missed you saying that. sorry.
[11:11:48] <amee2k> well, flash/ram/eeprom size
[11:11:59] <amee2k> but they only have one datasheet for the whole tinyX7 family
[11:12:02] <karlp> (don't pay too much attention to that either, it's not always quite as simple as "last number is common")
[11:12:33] <chisight> sounds just like pic then karlp :|
[11:13:18] <amee2k> same as, say, atmega48/88/168/328 only has one datasheet because the only difference is memory sizes and they're colloquially called "megaX8" then
[11:13:38] <chisight> got it.
[11:13:51] <amee2k> (which is not to be confused with plain "atmega8" which exists too >_>)
[11:13:59] <keenerd> karlp: I think you'd be best off emulating the math in your scripting language of choice. Do it correctly and it could warn you of overflows and keep track of accumulated error.
[11:14:27] <amee2k> another one that is easy to confuse is "atmega128" and "atmega1280"
[11:16:09] <amee2k> karlp: ooh, i think i get what you're trying to do now. i tend to use regular C for debugging some algorithms due to easier debugging, then port them to avr and insert into my mcu code
[11:16:53] <amee2k> all the down and dirty bitwise stuff seems to work pretty much the same on a normal computer
[11:17:23] <keenerd> Differences in word size can suck though.
[11:17:42] <amee2k> thats why i almost always use (u)intX_t macros
[11:17:58] <chisight> just have to spell out variable sizes
[11:18:02] <amee2k> the "classic" c type naming conventions are kind of a backbirth imo
[11:18:34] <karlp> if you have uint16_t[], what I'm working on is bugs when reading or writing consecutive entries in that array out to int64_t and uint64_t.
[11:18:51] <amee2k> programmers are supposed to select types based on the bit size (implicitly, based on required range), not because the name sounds cool
[11:19:10] <karlp> without having certain values in one part cause unexpected sign extension when combining other parts
[11:20:05] <chisight> this codoba.net tool is nice. you'd think the chip makers could do something as simple as this instead of the monstrosities they build.
[11:20:06] <keenerd> If it is an array (contiguous!) just tunr off warnings and point the 64 bit pointer into the array ;-)
[11:20:09] <karlp> I'm just trying to sanely put in all the correct literals into the test code, and doing ith with printf("%lld") and so forth isn't very fun.
[11:20:13] <amee2k> how about extending it, then doing "& 0xFFFF" to strip any undesired sign extension?
[11:20:27] <karlp> keenerd: that is a valid way, I know, but it's realllly not very portable.
[11:20:56] <keenerd> But it is so fast and tiny! How many AVRs are you trying to support? :-)
[11:20:58] <amee2k> how about using a union?
[11:21:23] <karlp> not just avr :)
[11:21:29] <karlp> speed is irrelevant!
[11:21:30] <amee2k> that is going to compile to just a bit of pointer math too
[11:21:54] <karlp> pointer cast tricks are not what I'm looking for. I know they _can_ work,
[11:22:12] <amee2k> with a union the compiler will be doing the pointer crap for you
[11:22:16] <karlp> all I was looking for was if anyone had a calculator tool they used for showing the bit fields for signed/unsigned numbers in both 32 and 64 bit numbers.
[11:22:27] <amee2k> a union is like a struct, but the fields overlap instead
[11:22:32] <karlp> amee2k: I know. I know it will work.
[11:22:42] <amee2k> okay >_>
[11:22:53] <amee2k> utter support failure in here then :D
[11:22:59] <karlp> no strees :)
[11:23:07] <amee2k> don't worry
[11:23:10] <amee2k> just sayin'
[11:23:53] <chisight> unions can lead to portability issues due to compilers padding (or not) during optimization.
[11:23:56] <amee2k> just that i don't like it either when people propose all kinds of weird crap instead of answering a simple question
[11:24:05] <keenerd> I don't exactly see what the problem is though. If you are merging small vars into a bit var, you are only shifting left. Sign bits don't matter on a left shift.
[11:24:13] <keenerd> *into a big var
[11:24:40] <amee2k> keenerd: but you need to convert the small type into the large type before shifting
[11:24:59] <amee2k> and unintended sign extension will screw up the higher positions then
[11:25:13] <keenerd> AND mask it before ORing then.
[11:25:33] <amee2k> or make sure to handle everything as unsigned first
[11:25:38] <keenerd> He already said speed does not matter, what is one more bit operation?
[11:26:57] <amee2k> just saying :)
[11:27:36] <amee2k> mmh, to answer the original question i don't know any other calculators like that, but maybe octave can be configured to print values in binary or at least in hex
[11:36:57] <karlp> keenerd: I'm fine with the operations, I'm jsut trying to make sure that I do the operations correctly :)
[11:37:03] <karlp> I already found a case where I didn't
[11:37:23] <karlp> or, where the code I was using didn't...
[11:37:45] <karlp> anyway, thanks for the ideas :)
[11:37:45] <chisight> karlp, why not just write a test routine that calls your subroutine with all possible values to make sure it does what you expect?
[11:37:56] <karlp> chisight: that's exactly what I'm doing now :)
[11:38:01] <chisight> :)
[11:38:06] <karlp> I was just looking for a calculator to help me come up with the test values :)
[11:38:10] <amee2k> have fun doing that on a uint64_t >_>
[11:38:29] <amee2k> see you next universe
[11:38:54] <chisight> didn't he say uint16_t?
[11:38:54] <karlp> are you referring to the perf implications of 64bit ops on avr?
[11:39:06] <karlp> chisight: it's stored in an array of u16s
[11:40:00] <chisight> arrays can be padded by compilers, if you want portability, the data better be uint16 too if that's the container you're using.
[11:40:34] <amee2k> karlp: no
[11:40:47] <karlp> oh, you mean, "all possible values"
[11:41:09] <karlp> yeah, I only care about the near zero, near full scale, and near sign changover values for 16, 32 and 64bit
[11:41:31] <amee2k> if i didn't screw up the calculation, testing all possible values of a 64 bit variable at 16M values per second takes ~35k years
[11:42:38] <amee2k> octave:7> 2**(64-24)/(3600*24*365)
[11:42:38] <amee2k> ans = 3.4865e+04
[11:43:00] <chisight> obviously if it's big numbers, carefully selected samples will have to do.
[11:43:57] <OndraSter> when chip has set FUSEs for external crystal
[11:44:09] <OndraSter> it will still work with HVPP programming without the crystal I hope?
[11:44:19] <OndraSter> friend has given me "not working" atmega16
[11:44:24] <OndraSter> he probably changed something
[11:44:26] <OndraSter> but it doesn't work
[11:44:31] <amee2k> i /think/ so
[11:44:48] <OndraSter> okay
[11:44:54] <amee2k> you can recover it with regular ISP too though by feeding a TTL clock signal into one of the xtal pins
[11:44:56] <OndraSter> I'll try normal JTAG first though
[11:45:05] <OndraSter> even when it is set for crystal oscillator?
[11:45:13] <OndraSter> and not external clock?
[11:45:26] <amee2k> datasheet should say which one the final clock is taken from, but iirc it usually is XTAL1
[11:45:49] <amee2k> yeah, setting for xtal just enables the xtal oscillator circuit
[11:45:54] <OndraSter> ah
[11:46:17] <amee2k> the buffer that takes the resulting signal and feeds it to the rest of the mcu is largely independent from that
[11:46:19] <OndraSter> I presume there is simple inverter inside (you know, NOT logic)
[11:46:36] <OndraSter> NOT logic chip
[11:46:44] <OndraSter> not NOT as not, but as inverter
[11:46:44] <OndraSter> lol
[11:46:59] <amee2k> i've got an attiny24 around with firmware that just does "PORTB++" in a loop. gives me 8 different clock speeds to try for recovery :)
[11:47:12] <amee2k> OndraSter: hehe, i get what you mean :)
[11:47:39] <OndraSter> ok :D
[11:47:44] <OndraSter> now
[11:47:47] <OndraSter> let's see datasheet
[11:49:09] <amee2k> aah, why can't atmel fix their sucks search script
[11:50:59] <amee2k> OndraSter: i'd point at XTAL1 since it is used with external RC osc as well as ext clock in
[11:51:17] <OndraSter> ok
[11:51:18] <OndraSter> thx
[11:51:37] <amee2k> i vaguely remember some datasheets having a block diagram of the oscillator that showed the internals though
[11:54:23] <amee2k> OndraSter: check out the "parallel programming, pin mapping" section in "memory programming"
[11:54:38] <amee2k> the parallel programming interface feeds its own clock into xtal1
[11:55:09] <OndraSter> ah ok
[11:55:11] <OndraSter> gr8 :)
[11:55:13] <OndraSter> thx
[11:55:21] <amee2k> you're welcome :)
[12:05:32] <OndraSter> uh, where is atmega8 or 8l in the device settings in avr studio 5 dropdown
[12:05:39] <OndraSter> I want to check FUSEs
[12:07:24] <OndraSter> hm
[12:07:29] <OndraSter> no support in avrs5
[12:08:14] <OndraSter> neither in avrs4?
[12:08:32] <amee2k> dump studio then? :P
[12:09:09] <OndraSter> eh
[12:09:15] <OndraSter> whole avr dragon doesn't support atmega8 anymore
[12:09:16] <OndraSter> GREAT
[12:09:35] <amee2k> what?
[12:09:43] <amee2k> it is a stinking programming adapter
[12:09:53] <amee2k> how can it not support an mcu
[12:09:57] <OndraSter> beats me
[12:10:03] <OndraSter> but it is greyed out
[12:10:05] <OndraSter> in avr studio 4.19
[12:10:15] <amee2k> well, the same thing beats me about the jtagice too actually
[12:12:17] <OndraSter> oh wait
[12:12:24] <OndraSter> it was greyed out because it doesn't know JTAG probably
[12:12:27] <OndraSter> normal ISP probably works
[12:12:41] <amee2k> lol
[12:12:49] <amee2k> noe, mega8/X8 doesn't have jtag
[12:12:53] <amee2k> nope*
[12:13:29] <amee2k> i'm quite sure about that
[12:14:05] <OndraSter> yap
[12:14:07] <OndraSter> just ISP
[12:14:13] <amee2k> and debugwire iirc
[12:14:36] <Steffanx> mega8 doesnt
[12:14:49] <OndraSter> neither dw
[12:14:51] <amee2k> hmm okay
[12:14:51] <OndraSter> just ISP
[12:14:59] <amee2k> waut, are you sure?
[12:15:01] <OndraSter> ye
[12:15:08] <Steffanx> dW is more for teh newer families .. like 88,168 etc.
[12:15:23] <amee2k> ooh, mega8 doesn't do dw, megaX8 does though
[12:15:38] <amee2k> wtf, i want a third toolbox >_<
[12:17:16] <OndraSter> LDI R18, 0xFF
[12:17:16] <OndraSter> OUT DDRA, R18
[12:17:16] <OndraSter> CYCLE:
[12:17:16] <OndraSter> INC R18
[12:17:16] <OndraSter> OUT PORTA, R18
[12:17:17] <OndraSter> JMP CYCLE
[12:17:20] <OndraSter> w
[12:17:22] <OndraSter> w00t
[12:17:39] <amee2k> recovery clock?
[12:17:40] <amee2k> :)
[12:17:47] <OndraSter> ya
[12:17:53] <OndraSter> wtf doesn't know "DDRA" and PORTA?
[12:17:58] <OndraSter> .include "m8def.inc"
[12:18:21] <Steffanx> No portA :D
[12:18:28] <OndraSter> DDA
[12:18:45] <OndraSter> LOL
[12:18:48] <OndraSter> didn't realize that
[12:18:50] <Steffanx> :P
[12:27:38] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:27:48] <OndraSter> neither with external clock at xtal1 it works
[12:29:41] <amee2k> isp or hvpp?
[12:29:47] <OndraSter> jtag
[12:29:50] <OndraSter> gonna try ISP now
[12:30:18] <amee2k> got an hvpp programmer?
[12:30:33] <amee2k> mmh, i seriously need to reorganize my toolboxes >_<
[12:38:17] <OndraSter> avr dragon has HVPP
[12:38:21] <OndraSter> gonna do it someday else though
[12:39:27] <OndraSter> I still wonder
[12:39:32] <OndraSter> why are there TWO atmegas on Dragon?
[12:39:34] <OndraSter> 128a and 2560
[12:39:48] <amee2k> because they're different types?
[12:40:01] <amee2k> mega128 != megaX0
[12:40:09] <OndraSter> still doesn't explain anything
[12:40:10] <amee2k> ooh, you mean on the board
[12:40:13] <OndraSter> ye
[12:40:24] <amee2k> i thought you meant as supported targets >_>
[12:40:34] <amee2k> no idea, maybe try finding a leaked schematic
[12:41:27] <amee2k> they're both huge ones so i'm tempted to suspect some kind of memory issue
[12:41:36] <OndraSter> well the 2560 has extra external memory
[12:41:38] <OndraSter> or is it the 128a
[12:43:07] <amee2k> i want a third toolbox >_<
[12:43:36] <amee2k> i've got so much measurement stuff by now that it would warrant one at least
[12:45:39] <OndraSter> hehe
[12:45:42] <OndraSter> I still need a scope
[12:45:44] <OndraSter> and WORKING logic analyzer
[12:46:56] <amee2k> also, stuff like tappers, hole punches and various drill bits coming in little plastic boxes is kinda cool
[12:47:02] <amee2k> but not very space efficient :/
[12:47:08] <OndraSter> hehe
[12:47:35] <amee2k> if the boxes weren't this nice i'd just throw them out
[12:47:44] <amee2k> which i might do for the hole punches anyway
[12:47:50] <OndraSter> lol
[12:47:53] <OndraSter> I know that feeling lol
[12:48:07] <amee2k> not for the tappers... i'm worried about damaging the threads if they bang against each other
[12:54:09] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vY2V6bA/CIMG8897b.jpeg http://ompldr.org/vY2V6bQ/CIMG8898b.jpeg << this is what i mean >_<
[12:57:14] <amee2k> mmh, that reminds me of something
[12:57:18] <amee2k> blight_!!!111
[12:57:36] <blight_> hey amee2k!
[12:57:41] <amee2k> where do you usually order prototype boards from?!
[12:57:42] <blight_> haha long time no see
[12:57:52] <blight_> prototype? from my basement :p
[12:57:54] <amee2k> yeah, kinda >_>
[12:57:57] <amee2k> lol
[12:58:03] <blight_> you mean perfboard?
[12:58:20] <amee2k> no, i mean fabricated boards in small quantities (<5)
[12:58:24] <blight_> didnt buy any in a long time, i usually use a breadboard and then etch
[12:58:32] <blight_> ah ok, i etch myself
[12:58:36] <blight_> ask in ##electronics
[12:58:36] <amee2k> when the stuff you can do at home doesn't really cut it
[12:59:11] <blight_> <3 solder resist
[12:59:15] <blight_> <3 pth
[12:59:21] <amee2k> i'm working on a project that is going to need fairly small SMT stuff and double sided with lots of vias
[12:59:34] <amee2k> i'm not at all compfortable doing that at home anymore
[12:59:37] <blight_> </3 diy "vias" ...
[12:59:50] <amee2k> yeah
[13:00:14] <blight_> the only name coming to mind is batchpcb
[13:00:17] <amee2k> i'd also like to have 2 or 3 or so with consistent quality
[13:00:30] <blight_> but i never had any pcb i made produced professionally
[13:00:48] <blight_> doesnt rs offer a service too?
[13:00:51] <blight_> rs-comp
[13:00:53] <amee2k> well, finding someone to make 100 boards is apparently easier than finding someone who will do 3
[13:01:01] <blight_> of course amee2k
[13:01:06] <amee2k> at least, if you don't want to pay 100EUR for a 6x20cm board
[13:01:18] <blight_> just one?
[13:01:25] <blight_> probably also depends on the features you want
[13:01:36] <blight_> like solder resist, overlay, watever
[13:02:19] <blight_> amee2k: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Platinenhersteller
[13:02:23] <blight_> maybe that helps
[13:02:50] <amee2k> for just a prototype, not many. whats important is vias, strongly preferred solid copper ones and at least 35u plating
[13:04:36] <blight_> you mean 35u vias or 35u copper traces on the pcb?
[13:04:49] <amee2k> 35u plating for traces
[13:05:08] <amee2k> if they can do solid filled vias for a reasonable price, i'd take that too
[13:05:35] <blight_> you mean 35u copper, plated, or 35u copper + 35u tin?
[13:05:51] <amee2k> preferably all copper, but the thicker the better
[13:06:10] <amee2k> if they can do tinning instead of gold plating i'll take that
[13:06:17] <amee2k> makepcb is cheap 0.0
[13:06:25] <blight_> 35u and 70u copper is standard anyway, and the tin plating is only a few u i think
[13:06:26] <amee2k> 40EUR for three boards before shipping
[13:06:41] <devilsadvocate> tinning is unusual
[13:06:51] <amee2k> it is?
[13:07:04] <devilsadvocate> and filled vias arent all that useful for the price
[13:07:32] <amee2k> if they have a usefully high drill limit i can compensate by just using more
[13:07:34] <devilsadvocate> not if you care about the price as much ant are prototyping
[13:08:06] <devilsadvocate> how much current are you sending through these things?
[13:08:10] <amee2k> i care about price if they want 100EUR per board. anything below 20/board should be fine by me
[13:08:28] <amee2k> 3A, but the parts on it are going to get hot too
[13:08:47] <amee2k> i want the vias to get the heat to the bottom layer and from there to the case
[13:10:07] <amee2k> blight_: mmh the other thing is which of these don't need a credit card because i don't have one
[13:12:08] <blight_> dunno but you can get a prepaid CC
[13:12:44] <amee2k> i tried that. at the end of the sign-up process i got a message saying that their automated test concluded that they can't give me a card
[13:13:19] <blight_> assholes
[13:13:24] <amee2k> i only found one place that has prepaid cards though
[13:13:26] <amee2k> are there others?
[13:13:33] <blight_> which was that?
[13:13:38] <blight_> i think mastercard has them
[13:13:38] <amee2k> well prepaid and free ones
[13:13:44] <amee2k> lemme see if i can find it again
[13:18:35] <amee2k> blight_: mmh can't find it again but i found another one with a free card that i can try
[13:19:43] <blight_> nothing's free :P you pay like 1% of the money you upload to the card i think
[13:20:13] * blight_ slaps amee2k
[13:20:15] <blight_> :p
[13:22:21] <amee2k> blight_: but i don't pay for just having the card
[13:22:28] <amee2k> so if i don't use it, i don't pay anything
[13:22:36] <blight_> hopefully :D
[13:22:42] <amee2k> lol
[13:23:13] <blight_> what are you building? bombs? no wonder you fail the automated tests...
[13:23:55] <amee2k> lol :P
[13:24:17] <amee2k> its a led module lol
[13:24:36] <blight_> what does it do?
[13:26:15] <impulze> led'ing
[13:26:18] <impulze> duh
[13:26:28] <amee2k> exactly :P
[13:26:41] <amee2k> some emitters, a driver and an MCU to control it from a serial bus
[13:45:06] <OndraSter> I am pretty sure ya'all know it:
[13:45:09] <OndraSter> you are cleaning your room
[13:45:11] <OndraSter> tidying up
[13:45:19] <impulze> no
[13:45:22] <OndraSter> after a week, you can't find one particular piece of thing
[13:45:23] <OndraSter> well
[13:45:31] <OndraSter> all my cleaning was cleaning half the table to put there new LCD
[13:45:48] <OndraSter> I KNEW it was right next to monitor
[13:45:53] <OndraSter> but... I cleaned the box there :(
[13:54:53] <abcminiuser> Is Tom_Itx just straight up dead or something?
[13:57:30] <amee2k> OndraSter: i SO. fucking. know. how that goes >_<
[13:57:37] <OndraSter> haha
[13:57:41] <OndraSter> I can't find my NRF24L01
[13:57:44] <OndraSter> or w/e is the number
[13:58:31] <amee2k> before xmas i was searching for a pack of typewriter paper all weekend long that i was sure i had in my room
[13:59:06] <amee2k> only to find it two weeks ago... on the shelf with all my other office supplies >_<
[13:59:40] <OndraSter> :D
[13:59:44] <amee2k> how the fuck did i get the idea i had to move it from the floor to the shelf >_<
[13:59:48] <OndraSter> I remember creating this huge box of electronics
[13:59:58] <OndraSter> some wires to breadboard, some pieces from boards, some electronic small boards
[14:00:03] <OndraSter> haha floor
[14:00:06] <OndraSter> good idea where to look
[14:00:18] <amee2k> >_>
[14:00:43] <amee2k> i've got a big white box for most of my parts stock
[14:01:05] <amee2k> but i do have a habit of misplacing the box for the cable ties
[14:01:44] <OndraSter> dude
[14:01:46] <OndraSter> you were right
[14:01:50] <OndraSter> it was right next to my table lol
[14:01:56] <OndraSter> on the floor... below all the cables
[14:02:02] <OndraSter> and that is a mess all those cables
[14:02:08] <OndraSter> like 10 euro plugs lol
[14:02:11] <OndraSter> at least
[14:02:13] <amee2k> and searching the entire place before i decide look a third time where it usually is, namely next to the box with shrink tube
[14:02:26] <amee2k> haha :)
[14:02:39] <OndraSter> FU
[14:02:42] <OndraSter> it isn't in the box
[14:02:45] <OndraSter> hmm
[14:02:57] <amee2k> mmh?
[14:03:10] <OndraSter> different box
[14:03:12] <OndraSter> but which one
[14:03:15] <OndraSter> THERE IS SO MUCH BOXES
[14:03:21] <amee2k> the red one?
[14:03:26] <OndraSter> all of them are red :(
[14:03:30] <OndraSter> with elephant on them
[14:03:34] <OndraSter> (local electro shop lol)
[14:03:34] <amee2k> 0.0
[14:03:41] <OndraSter> some tokenring cards from IBM PCs
[14:03:42] <chisight> 6.9 ??
[14:03:44] <amee2k> you did label them, no?
[14:03:45] <OndraSter> bunch of SDRAM memories
[14:03:47] <OndraSter> hell no
[14:03:48] <OndraSter> lol
[14:03:51] <OndraSter> I know how it looks like
[14:03:52] <amee2k> >_>
[14:03:52] <chisight> lol
[14:03:58] <OndraSter> afk
[14:04:08] <keenerd> Wow, there is still a store with token ring in stock?
[14:04:21] <OndraSter> nah
[14:04:24] <OndraSter> they are from IBM PCs
[14:04:33] <chisight> no way! but i have a bunch of arcnet if anyone needs it :\
[14:04:33] <OndraSter> they do not boot from ethernet if you put in the tokenring card :(
[14:04:39] <OndraSter> afk
[14:08:18] <amee2k> OndraSter: i still remember... i was pretty proud when i bought my N-th parts box
[14:08:31] <amee2k> 10 points if you can guess how many boxes i had
[14:22:46] <abcminiuser> !seen Tom_Itx
[14:22:58] <abcminiuser> tobbor, !seen Tom_Itx
[14:23:11] <abcminiuser> rue_bed, your bot is busted
[14:33:05] <raek> A bit off topic: For you who have had troubles installing Eagle in Ubuntu (both 32/64-bit): http://blog.raek.se/2012/01/06/running-cadsoft-eagle-version-6-in-ubuntu-gnulinux/
[14:41:01] <Steffanx> abcminiuser_ .. why you don't use nickserv?
[14:41:21] <Steffanx> nvm .. that's useless in this case
[14:41:53] <abcminiuser_> Ah well, just let him know I need him to guneapig some code on his programmer...
[14:44:44] <Steffanx> ok
[14:45:26] <Steffanx> Whats wrong with the current one?
[14:53:09] <OndraSter> amee2k, 10th?
[14:55:24] <amee2k> OndraSter: nope
[14:57:34] <amee2k> hmm the only good hint i can think of is, think about why i capitalized the 'N' there
[15:00:01] <Steffanx> uh?
[15:00:45] <amee2k> yes >_>
[15:00:58] <amee2k> you'll probably pee yourself laughing when you see the answer
[15:01:14] <amee2k> but i can't think of a better hint without it being a dead giveaway
[15:01:21] <Steffanx> Which N ?
[15:01:38] <amee2k> 20:59 < amee2k> OndraSter: i still remember... i was pretty proud when i bought my N-th parts box
[15:01:42] <amee2k> 20:59 < amee2k> 10 points if you can guess how many boxes i had
[15:02:29] <Steffanx> Ah
[15:02:47] <OndraSter> 4?
[15:02:57] <amee2k> no >_<
[15:03:00] <amee2k> getting colder
[15:03:11] <OndraSter> 3?
[15:03:18] <OndraSter> oh
[15:03:20] <OndraSter> 20?
[15:03:29] <amee2k> thats too hot >_>
[15:03:30] <OndraSter> are you feeling warmer now? (aka, are you peeing yourself now? :D)
[15:03:35] <OndraSter> 15?
[15:03:39] <amee2k> almost
[15:03:42] <OndraSter> 14?
[15:03:46] <Steffanx> 24
[15:03:49] <amee2k> yep
[15:03:51] <amee2k> 14
[15:04:05] <amee2k> but you still have no idea why?
[15:04:12] <amee2k> wanna see?
[15:04:16] <Steffanx> $$$$
[15:04:20] <Steffanx> You had $$$$
[15:04:23] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vNXFlMw/cimg4891b.jpg
[15:04:29] <amee2k> ^^ spoiler
[15:04:55] <OndraSter> lol
[15:05:16] <asteve> are those n-mos transistors?
[15:05:19] <OndraSter> so, let's see if I can hook up NRF24L01 + DS18B20 to attiny13a
[15:05:29] <Steffanx> Hmpf amee2k
[15:05:41] <amee2k> Steffanx: what >_>
[15:06:12] <amee2k> asteve: no, *FET transistors are in box T
[15:06:37] <asteve> i can't think of anything that starts with an N - maybe that's why the box is emtpy
[15:06:44] <amee2k> well, by now. they used to share D with LEDs and BJTs until they got too many
[15:07:36] <amee2k> well, the first three i labeled A, B and C
[15:07:47] <amee2k> and when i got more i just kept labeling them sequentially with capital letters
[15:09:43] <OndraSter> http://ufosensor.free.fr/data/100_8714.jpg
[15:09:44] <OndraSter> nasty
[15:10:29] <amee2k> the box is empty because i made the pic 10 minutes after coming home, 2 minutes after labelling it, and about the time it took me to grab the camera after i realized the pun >_>
[15:11:06] <amee2k> asteve: but if it is of any consolation, i'm now keeping BJTs in it :)
[15:12:46] <asteve> http://i.imgur.com/ZSkwt.jpg
[15:13:15] <amee2k> o.O
[15:13:22] <amee2k> that is the whole point i think
[15:13:41] <amee2k> OndraSter: 0.0
[15:13:59] <OndraSter> haha
[15:14:17] <OndraSter> where is the pun?
[15:15:01] <amee2k> N is a common variable name for natural numbers
[15:15:35] <amee2k> so the line "my N-th box" implies that i removed an actual number in order to hide the solution
[15:16:04] <OndraSter> o
[15:16:05] <OndraSter> oh
[15:16:06] <OndraSter> lol
[15:16:09] <OndraSter> I would never think about that
[15:17:54] <amee2k> i mean, it would have been kinda boring had i said "my 14th box" because the obvious answer would have been 14
[15:18:03] <_abc_> amee2k: you have a computer catalog for what you have there? :) Else it's a store-only-never-retrieve-because-you-forgot-about-it system.
[15:18:22] <amee2k> _abc_: not really
[15:18:26] <_abc_> :/
[15:18:42] * _abc_ had collections of collections of boxes like that in the past.
[15:18:45] <_abc_> Not anymore
[15:19:31] <OndraSter> hmm
[15:19:45] <OndraSter> ATTiny13A + NRFL24L01 + DS18B20
[15:19:48] <OndraSter> sounds sexy eh? :P
[15:20:00] <OndraSter> wireless temperature station
[15:21:21] <amee2k> _abc_: well i've got a system for the most part, it just has nothing to do with the lettering ;)
[15:21:47] <_abc_> Yeah I gave up on lettering early :)
[15:21:56] <_abc_> I used numbers! :)
[15:22:00] <amee2k> i did consider turning everything upside down and inventing a new one from scratch
[15:22:06] <_abc_> You can't run out of numbers, you know.
[15:22:32] <amee2k> after Z i'll just start with AA :)
[15:22:57] <amee2k> but then decided to stick with a maybe mildly suboptimal system that works rather well
[15:22:57] <_abc_> I also found out the hard way that plastic boxes are for girl's beading supplies. Cardboard pizza boxes with mos foam inside are MUCH healthier for electronics
[15:23:11] <amee2k> okay
[15:23:27] <amee2k> didn't have any issues with it in like three years
[15:23:39] <_abc_> Depends what parts you scrounge
[15:23:52] <_abc_> I had some fancy linear ccd arrays die on me in plastic boxes
[15:23:58] <_abc_> Also expensive mcu's
[15:23:59] <amee2k> o.O
[15:24:23] <amee2k> i keep all my AVRs and a ton of normal transistors in them
[15:24:31] <amee2k> including MOSFETs and JFETs
[15:25:04] <_abc_> And I murdered a 15 Euro pic12C509jw when grabbing it from under the UV eraser without static precautions, the MCLR pin is at a corner and not static protected (towards Vdd)
[15:25:30] <amee2k> like the reset pin on avrs?
[15:25:33] <_abc_> It was erased okay but it would not program after that
[15:25:42] <amee2k> lol
[15:25:45] <OndraSter> I keep all my electronics in some small plastic boxes all around the house lol
[15:25:46] <_abc_> amee2k: no, the reset pin on avrs has a diode no?
[15:25:53] <_abc_> I mean to Vdd and one to Vss?
[15:26:01] <_abc_> Oh wait, that is also HVPP capable
[15:26:02] <amee2k> not towards vdd
[15:26:04] <_abc_> So no diode
[15:26:11] <amee2k> it needs to be pull... exactly >_>
[15:26:13] <_abc_> Yeah they would also be sensitive to that mode
[15:26:48] <_abc_> And the reset pin on avrs is ALSO at a corner (grab friendly)
[15:27:03] <amee2k> not on some
[15:27:12] <_abc_> After grieving I made a socket with a 15V zener between MCLR and VSS to preserve future investments
[15:27:14] <amee2k> attinyX4 has it on like pin 4 or something
[15:27:24] <amee2k> hehe
[15:27:42] <_abc_> I think it was more like 20 Euro that bugger
[15:27:59] <amee2k> lol
[15:28:08] <_abc_> This was at times when there were no 'F' chips, all were 'C' (otp) and you used a single jw (with window) to test code
[15:28:27] * RikusW haven't yet electocuted any avr's :)
[15:28:30] <_abc_> So the development chips were $$$
[15:28:40] <_abc_> They still are I think
[15:29:04] <amee2k> hmm i see
[15:29:39] <_abc_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC12C509JW-Integrated-Circuit-x-1-pieces-PIC12C509-/380327756471 here ya go
[15:30:04] <amee2k> ouch
[15:30:37] <amee2k> i've managed to kill single pins or parts of pins before
[15:30:48] <amee2k> not kill one completely
[15:31:14] <_abc_> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/557321-ic-mcu-eprom-1kx12-8cdip-pic12c509-jw.html price $call, not a good sign, I assure you
[15:31:29] <RikusW> well except my m32 which was the psu's fault...
[15:31:35] <_abc_> But it was cool to be able to see the mcu chip through the window :)
[15:31:48] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260898774670?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[15:31:51] <OndraSter> this is super tempting
[15:31:54] <amee2k> mmh speaking of seeing
[15:32:01] <amee2k> did you see my new toy earlier today?
[15:32:05] <_abc_> nope
[15:32:14] <_abc_> I slept for a bit while the washer did my clothes
[15:32:18] <_abc_> :)
[15:32:28] <amee2k> microscopic USB webcam!
[15:32:37] <amee2k> been playing with it all afternoon long
[15:32:48] <_abc_> hah
[15:32:51] <_abc_> self made?
[15:33:11] <amee2k> no, but at 1/3rd the price i saw it for in a store like two years ago
[15:33:24] <_abc_> ok
[15:33:29] <_abc_> What image resolution?
[15:33:30] <amee2k> they had it with a monitor and some scrap circuit boards and stuff on display to try out
[15:33:39] <amee2k> and i though mmh, kinda cool but not for that price >_>
[15:33:44] <_abc_> I got a cheap cif camera, it cost 4.5 euros :)
[15:33:52] <_abc_> usb
[15:34:07] <amee2k> cheese snapshots are 1280x1024. not sure about the physical resolution
[15:34:20] <amee2k> most likely larger since i can't see any traces of up-scaling
[15:34:21] <_abc_> meh likely interpolated
[15:34:26] <_abc_> how much? And which brand
[15:34:36] <amee2k> 49.something
[15:34:43] <amee2k> dunno, it is rebranded
[15:34:47] <_abc_> ah
[15:34:51] <_abc_> Aldi über alles?
[15:35:08] <amee2k> well, conrad. and the only thing über alles there are the prices usually :P
[15:35:18] <amee2k> why do you think i didn't buy it for 150 lol
[15:35:19] <_abc_> We have TCM (Tchibo) shops here with interesting stuff rejected in .de I think...
[15:36:01] <amee2k> http://pastebin.com/DzPfxVP4 << here are some pics i uploaded this afternoon
[15:36:53] <amee2k> the TQFP (154011) is 0.4mm pitch i think
[15:37:01] <amee2k> at least that is what i measured
[15:37:34] <amee2k> i used a pair of old scrap mainboards for target practice
[15:38:05] <_abc_> Has anyone used a Willem programmer here?
[15:38:16] <amee2k> is that edible?
[15:39:46] * _abc_ thwaps amee2k for not making a proper web page on a free hoster for those pics
[15:39:57] <amee2k> what.
[15:39:59] <_abc_> amee2k: HINT: you can upload html files into omploader
[15:40:09] <_abc_> amee2k: the pastebin crap
[15:40:13] <amee2k> why would i upload html files
[15:40:22] <_abc_> as an index to you r damn pics?
[15:40:23] <amee2k> i grepped the backlog for the links lol
[15:40:29] <_abc_> oh
[15:41:01] <_abc_> Well the microscope is adequate for boards. Does it have a decent light?
[15:41:15] <amee2k> has a bunch of white LEDs on the front
[15:41:24] <amee2k> they were the light source for most of these pics
[15:41:30] <_abc_> I see
[15:41:48] <amee2k> except for the lightbulb one where they reflected in the glass envelop so i used a flashlight from the side
[15:42:03] <amee2k> has a switch on top where you can select lights off and two brightness levels
[15:42:20] <_abc_> I c
[15:42:30] <amee2k> 16:51 < amee2k> http://www.conrad.at/ce/de/product/191233/DIGITAL-MIKROSKOPKAMERA-13-USB-200X
[15:42:47] <_abc_> yeah I know the kind
[15:43:20] <amee2k> pretty handy for identifying ass tiny markings on SMT components
[15:43:38] <_abc_> aw cmon. Use an Arduino for that :)
[15:43:59] <amee2k> and as opposed to a magnifying glass you can make pics for later reference
[15:44:24] <_abc_> use your brains for pics
[15:44:39] <amee2k> you can use my brain for pics?
[15:58:36] <OndraSter> I just noticed
[15:58:36] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260898774670?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[15:58:40] <OndraSter> these are the supersmall package
[15:58:47] <OndraSter> 8S2 package
[15:58:58] <OndraSter> aka 2mm wide
[15:59:08] <OndraSter> and 5mm long
[15:59:10] <OndraSter> lol
[15:59:17] <OndraSter> that is supercool
[16:01:15] <amee2k> thats a tiny at 0.0
[16:02:25] <OndraSter> I thought it was regular SO8
[16:02:31] <OndraSter> appearantly this is half the size
[16:02:33] <OndraSter> how cool is that!
[16:02:51] <amee2k> about as cool as a SOT with two extra pins?
[16:02:52] <amee2k> o.O
[16:03:21] <OndraSter> :D
[16:03:34] <keenerd> Don't foget about Chinese New Year. Basically don't bother buying anything from China until Feb.
[16:03:46] <chron0> yeah
[16:04:28] <OndraSter> I know keenerd
[16:05:04] <keenerd> Any folks in China want to comment on how that is going? CapnKernel? :-)
[16:05:24] <OndraSter> they have got year of dragon
[16:05:25] <OndraSter> I think
[16:07:59] <CapnKernel> keenerd: Hi there
[16:07:59] <OndraSter> you gotta love when somebody gives you reel with 25 ICS, but the reel itself is twice the length than needed lol
[16:08:27] <OndraSter> oops, not reel
[16:08:28] <OndraSter> tube*
[16:09:58] <CapnKernel> keenerd: I'm in Australia now (leaving for China tomorrow night) but yeah, basically China is shut down at the moment.
[16:15:05] <amee2k> http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/pipelogic/index.php 0.0
[16:17:44] <mrfrenzy> jilariou
[16:17:47] <mrfrenzy> hilarious!
[16:18:05] <amee2k> yeah
[16:18:10] <amee2k> i went like WTF?!
[16:22:51] <asteve> amee2k: that's you?
[16:23:07] <amee2k> what is me?
[16:24:06] <amee2k> i'm the orange guy, remember?
[16:39:08] * amee2k nudges asteve
[16:39:10] <keenerd> Papilio hurts me head. Xilinx running AVR softcpu running arduino running sketches. Yay?
[16:39:23] <asteve> orange guy, eh? the website
[16:40:16] <amee2k> lol
[16:40:21] <amee2k> no, thats not my website
[16:40:46] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vOTN6NQ/PIC_0189b.JPG << the orange guy... see? :D
[16:40:47] <asteve> keenerd: one day everything will run in an fpga
[16:41:13] <asteve> interesting, where is that?
[16:41:42] <_abc_> keenerd: that is sick
[16:42:05] <_abc_> keenerd: the next step is to implement the Xilinx development suite on Arduino so it can self compile, I guess
[16:42:15] <_abc_> (not likely :)
[16:42:24] <amee2k> < asteve> interesting, where is that? << was that directed at me?
[16:42:25] <amee2k> >_>
[16:42:38] <asteve> yes
[16:42:42] <amee2k> ah
[16:42:48] <amee2k> thats my desk
[16:43:04] <amee2k> in my room in the student flat share i'm in
[16:44:23] <amee2k> or where did you think it was?
[16:49:22] <_abc_> amee2k: is this the picture I enhanced once? >:~
[16:49:25] <asteve> maybe i should have been more specific; in what descriptive, yet general, location was that picture taken? For example, at Amee2k University, Amee2k, AK
[16:49:45] <_abc_> yep that one :)
[16:51:13] <amee2k> you enhanced it?
[16:51:26] <amee2k> not really, thats pretty much as it came from the camera iirc
[16:52:06] <_abc_> amee2k: remember when you compared me with frogs for enhancing it? :)
[16:52:36] <amee2k> mmh, riiight there was something
[16:53:45] <amee2k> asteve: amee2k showing off his new room decoration while wearing a matching orange fleece jacket in a small hicktown just outside the city of salzburg, austria
[16:53:59] <amee2k> that suitably descriptive`
[16:54:01] <amee2k> ?*
[16:54:33] <asteve> hah, yes
[16:54:48] <amee2k> i've got the construction sign on my room door now :)
[16:54:52] <asteve> can austrians be hicks?
[16:54:54] <amee2k> i think it fits
[16:55:03] <amee2k> i wouldn't know, i'm german >_>
[16:58:14] <_abc_> http://ompldr.org/vY2Y0aQ Jawohl, now we can see you are ze German
[16:58:46] <amee2k> twss
[16:58:50] <_abc_> ?
[16:59:00] <amee2k> short for "thats what she said" ?
[17:07:54] <amee2k> asteve: do you like my construction sign? :D
[17:07:58] * amee2k aptly turns orange
[18:57:10] <doc____> hi there
[18:59:49] <Casper> low here?
[19:28:02] * ftc extrapolates the topography of the conversation using qhull
[21:28:13] <learningc> has anyone put linux on ARM?
[21:29:02] <inflex> sure, lots of ppl hae
[21:29:03] <inflex> have
[21:31:38] <learningc> inflex: have you tried?
[21:32:02] <inflex> not personally, no
[21:32:57] <learningc> I am not sure how to begin
[21:33:31] <theBear> i've dabbled with a few old phones... .what kinda device you got ?
[21:33:39] <theBear> maybe a router or 2 as well actually
[21:34:11] <`Wedge> hm, new routers are rarely arm-based
[21:35:21] <Casper> atheos based now
[21:35:25] <Casper> or broadcom
[21:35:40] <keenerd> Didn't know those were CPU architectures.
[21:35:50] <keenerd> MIPS is pretty common for routers.
[21:36:19] <learningc> theBear: I'll be making my own board out of an ARM processor
[21:36:56] <Casper> it's sad that routers don't have more gpio
[21:37:10] <Casper> they would make some really cheap sbc
[21:37:11] <learningc> theBear: but I need to know exactly how to put linux on it
[21:37:39] <theBear> learningc, oh, then it's pretty easy, i'm not familiar with the very first stage of their boot, but i'd say any given arm is gonna look at internal flash or maybe address 0 on an external prom for its boot... then errm, is uboot the one that works on arm ? whatever it is, get that bootloader, and from there it's "easy" :)
[21:37:52] <`Wedge> learningc: that depends on the cpu you've got
[21:37:59] <theBear> lookup the datasheet for the chip, like wedge says
[21:38:13] <theBear> arms come in everything from bare ics to soc style
[21:40:28] <learningc> 'wedge: what do you mean? ARM are differents?
[21:41:45] <theBear> what i just said
[21:42:06] <Kevin`> learningc: you'll need some external memory attached to the cpu to run linux btw, I don't think any arm cpus have enough on-chip ram for it
[21:42:19] <theBear> for example, an arm with no internal prom of any kind, isn't gonna boot on its own, but i'd be surprised if one WITH several internal proms won't boot and run off them
[21:43:40] <theBear> i'd say consider an old phone or similar... old ipaqs and early htc/winmobile phones are worth 'nothing' to a lot of people, and easy to come across... they've usually got a very usable screen, sd or maybe cf slots, sometimes network interfaces, often one or 2 kinds of wireless interface, serial, sometimes jtag
[21:44:24] <`Wedge> hmm, I thought arms that can run linux are kinda complex to build a board a homebrew board for them
[21:45:26] <theBear> `Wedge, they sure are, lotta pins, TINY chips
[21:45:41] <theBear> not to mention you gotta route for reasonable speed, maybe like a p2-era mainboard, just smaller :)
[21:45:47] <`Wedge> or BGA, which is worse
[21:45:54] <`Wedge> need a multilayer board for that
[21:46:36] <learningc> wedge: it won't be homebrew, commercial one
[21:47:04] <`Wedge> ah, okay
[21:47:33] <learningc> wedge: but the linux part is what I know nothing about
[21:47:36] <theBear> heck, if you were nearby i'd give you an old ipaq with a broken screen to play with
[21:48:05] <learningc> theBear: how's your back btw?
[21:49:24] <theBear> medium, but something has turned in my head, from the brink of insanity i'm clawing my way back... i plan to have SOME kind of regular work by lets say, mid next week
[21:49:55] <`Wedge> fuuck, I haven't slept today, I have a history exam in an hour or so
[21:50:14] <learningc> yuck!
[21:50:15] <theBear> i also plan to tell my doctor on fri i gonna need a LOT more pills.... screw this clear headed stuff, i'm ready to go back to dopey and able to drag myself around in any kind of pain (even crappy parttime jobs don't last long if you only turn up half the time with no notice)
[21:50:24] <`Wedge> I don't like history, and I really despise this country history
[21:50:27] <learningc> wedge: are you in engineering?
[21:50:40] <`Wedge> mathematics
[21:51:49] <`Wedge> but we have some stuff that we basicly don't need, like history
[21:51:50] <learningc> good luck theBear
[21:52:08] <`Wedge> We are also going to have sociology, economy, philosophy and some other shit no doubt
[21:52:32] <learningc> wedge, how are you related to avr?
[21:52:38] <theBear> learningc, why thankyou
[21:52:39] <`Wedge> I don't remember
[21:52:56] <`Wedge> I think I got a few avr chips lying somewhere gathering dust :D
[21:53:52] <theBear> i've got a bunch, found some shiny brand new 90s2313's last night :)
[22:59:41] <Sgt_Lemming> CapnKernel1 you about?