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[00:31:05] <Roklobsta_> casper: ok but what i mean to not be too taxing on the avr that slow serial and hid would be fine presumably.
[00:52:24] <inflex> oh good, my GP order is shipped
[00:53:04] <inflex> only trouble now is that I have to get a large batch of T10's
[00:53:23] <inflex> (or 5)
[00:54:38] <Roklobsta_> quick avr question: I have an atmega1280 - if I develop an application on it, and keep in mind the memory contraints can I use it as a develpment platform for an application intended to some as yet unchosen and unbought ATtiny?
[00:54:56] <inflex> mm... sort of
[00:55:03] <Roklobsta_> will the common peripherals work just the same?
[00:55:05] <inflex> but the mega->tiny jump can be quite brutal
[00:55:13] <inflex> sure, things like the ADC and timers will
[00:55:16] <Kevin`> Roklobsta_: yes, but the hardware available and the pin/register mappings will be different
[00:56:02] <Roklobsta_> ok I relaise the mappings will be different but if I am careful and use only peripherals common to attinys then I should be OK?
[00:56:08] <inflex> yes
[00:56:12] <Roklobsta_> great
[00:56:54] <inflex> memory sizing could be your only main hiccup though, also note thatthemega1280 likely has its own internal hardware multiplier, but most/all of the tiny's don't, so your compiled size will differ
[00:57:18] <inflex> (though I think the ATTiny48/88 might be okay on that aspect)
[00:57:20] <Roklobsta_> that's ok. it's really jst for a simple control and logging function. I have live without hardware mult.
[00:57:29] <inflex> ah ok, pn
[00:57:29] <inflex> np
[00:57:53] <Roklobsta_> i just want some i/o and memeory and control.
[00:58:11] <inflex> cool, yep, you'll be fine
[00:58:20] <Roklobsta_> but if I can kick things off on my existing arduino mega clone then i can start right away
[00:58:44] <Roklobsta_> inflex: do you use c or asm?
[00:58:49] <Roklobsta_> for your attiny?
[00:59:00] <inflex> C for all of them except the Tiny10/5
[00:59:19] <Roklobsta_> studio 4 or 5? (20 questions)
[00:59:33] <inflex> gvim + avrgcc :D
[00:59:38] * inflex develops in Linux
[00:59:53] <Roklobsta_> ah ok.
[00:59:56] <Roklobsta_> fair enough
[01:00:03] <inflex> awww hell... the buzzers I need have gone up in price by 50%
[01:00:06] <Roklobsta_> and debug with uart and cro?
[01:00:13] * inflex wishes he had the $$$ to buy a lot of 500
[01:00:33] <Roklobsta_> that's jaycar for you.
[01:00:36] <inflex> no, I tend to use a software serial TX function and dump data to the PC
[01:00:56] <inflex> haha, I don't use Jaycar... mostly I use Element14, Soanar or Digikey
[01:01:10] <inflex> these buzzers I need come from Digi
[01:02:42] <inflex> I've not yet found a suitable replacement for them *sigh*
[01:02:46] <Roklobsta_> are they a screaming alarm of death for a crashing rc plane?
[01:03:15] <inflex> yep
[01:03:21] <Kevin`> didn't you have 1000 extra buzzers? or was that someone else
[01:03:27] <inflex> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/CSQ-RP%2FE/102-1465-ND/1003806
[01:03:33] <inflex> Kevin`: I do - but not of this type
[01:04:10] <inflex> Kevin`: I've got 1000 or so of Korea Ele 4-pad SMD types and 1000 9027 SMD 2-pad types, but none of them can produce the same dB as the CUI ones I get from digi
[01:04:40] <inflex> Kevin`: I've found that for the most part, the dB ratings given by most buzzers are pure unadulterated BS.
[01:05:51] <Kevin`> ahh, this doesn't make sense
[01:06:02] <inflex> what?
[01:06:21] <Kevin`> the first digit on my display isn't showing anything, except for duing the self test of ever-increasing complexity
[01:06:28] <inflex> Anyhow, if I change to a top-port buzzer, then my life is easier, but I need a side-port unit
[01:06:39] <inflex> what display?
[01:07:08] <Kevin`> http://kwzs.be/~kevin/clock.txt
[01:07:15] <Kevin`> moment, on the display itself
[01:10:53] <Kevin`> http://kwzs.be/~kevin/T-2876AB.txt
[01:21:12] <Kevin`> it has to be some simple logic error somewhere
[01:28:58] <Roklobsta_> inflex: is this just using free mounting on a PCB or mechanically fastingting them to the case to improve resonance?
[01:31:28] <inflex> Roklobsta_: like this -
http://www.nqrc.com/images/PLD-BAC-LMA-55.jpg
[01:32:37] <Roklobsta_> oh. i see, you need all the dBSPL you can get
[01:33:04] <inflex> yep
[01:34:19] <inflex> the CUI ones had been the best units to date that I've found for that size/form
[01:34:24] <inflex> just a shame the price has gone up so much :(
[01:34:38] <Roklobsta_> hrm, interesting with ATtiny you don't get much room for a stack. doesn't allow for much function and interrupt nesting.
[01:35:16] <Roklobsta_> does gcc support small stack models and function overlays?
[01:35:24] <inflex> correct, though a lot of stuff that ultimately fits in the smaller Tiny's usually deosnt' require more than 1 or 2 nesting levels
[01:35:37] <inflex> Roklobsta_: well, it might be in there in the optimising flags
[01:36:12] <inflex> Roklobsta_: where in AU are you ?
[01:36:24] <Roklobsta_> about 3000km south of you
[01:36:38] <Roklobsta_> swest coast of victoria
[01:36:43] <inflex> Hrmm... Melb area?
[01:36:48] <Roklobsta_> 300km west
[01:37:00] <inflex> ah right, fair enough - sort of where I'm tryig to move to
[01:37:00] <Roklobsta_> but we still have a jaycar of sorts
[01:37:21] * inflex just uses E14 for most of his AU sourced stuff, since it's delievered overnight for free
[02:55:43] <ziph> Well, that's awesome. I got the opencores full MSP430 running in an FPGA and have gdb running with it too.
[02:58:25] <inflex> That's sort of like using a quad core i7 to emulate a Z80
[02:58:50] <ziph> Heh, kinda.
[02:59:12] <amee2k> thought people do just that?
[02:59:24] <ziph> This is a serious project though.
[02:59:43] <ziph> I have some peripherals I can only really do in an FPGA, and I want them to be controlled over RS232.
[03:00:29] <ziph> Instead of having some big nasty state machine in Verilog I've put the peripherals as memory mapped registers on the MSP430 bus, and I can now write the serial interactions in C.
[03:02:59] <ziph> (The MCU core could be anything but the MSP430 happens to have a very nice GCC port.)
[03:04:11] <inflex> why'd you pick the MSP430 compared to say an AVR core?
[03:04:19] <inflex> or is it more to do with that the MSP430 is freely available?
[03:04:27] <Roklobsta_> is msp430 under license or patent or is it 'free?
[03:04:57] <ziph> inflex: The MSP430 is 16 bit for starters, and the peripheral happens to use a lot of 16 bit registers.
[03:05:07] <ziph> inflex: Plus none of the AVR implementations are very good.
[03:05:07] <inflex> ah right, np
[03:05:22] <inflex> okay, are these "blackbox" implementations?
[03:05:29] <inflex> (or "cleanroom" as some might call them)
[03:05:41] <ziph> Yeah, they'd have to be. ;)
[03:05:57] <ziph> inflex: The MSP instruction set is also tiny and easily decodable. The AVR one is a horror show.
[03:06:45] <inflex> ziph: probably in part because of Atmels want to keep a lot of them down to 1 cycle
[03:07:09] <ziph> inflex: Having lots of them doesn't really help that.
[03:07:33] <inflex> That's always the pain of being involved in the microcode design team, you're going to be hated by someone always
[03:36:47] <jacekowski> ziph: avr instruction set is easily decodable
[03:36:52] <jacekowski> it's just much bigger
[06:33:02] <OndraSter_> gonna repeat myself:
[06:33:07] <OndraSter_> when you have some file, let's say
[06:33:08] <OndraSter_> firmware.asm
[06:33:12] <OndraSter_> now you do in it:
[06:33:15] <OndraSter_> .org 0x3800
[06:33:18] <OndraSter_> JMP START
[06:33:23] <OndraSter_> .include "somefile.asm"
[06:33:37] <OndraSter_> does the content of the somefile.asm start counting from ground up (aka org 0) or continue?
[06:33:44] <OndraSter_> because for me it starts going from ground up
[06:33:57] <OndraSter_> I split bootloader to multiple files since they are shared with the main project
[06:36:39] <grummund_> i dunno the answer but it sounds weird that org should start again from 0
[06:36:43] <OndraSter_> yes
[06:37:42] <OndraSter_> hmm
[06:37:45] <OndraSter_> this is weird
[06:37:52] <OndraSter_> if I put there .org after the JMP again
[06:37:56] <OndraSter_> it works as expected
[06:38:45] <OndraSter_> hmm
[06:38:49] <OndraSter_> it is like either one of the .def files
[06:38:55] <OndraSter_> err
[06:39:01] <OndraSter_> one of those .inc files with .defs and .equs
[06:39:02] <OndraSter_> resets it
[06:39:33] <OndraSter_> OOPS
[06:39:35] <OndraSter_> I AM IDIOT
[06:39:40] <OndraSter_> first line in macros.inc:
[06:39:41] <OndraSter_> .org 0x0000
[06:39:42] <OndraSter_> ...
[06:39:48] <Steffanx> :P
[06:39:50] <OndraSter_> oh well
[06:39:51] <Steffanx> lol OndraSter_
[06:39:56] <OndraSter_> I spent about 4 hours with it yesterday
[06:40:01] <OndraSter_> googling and binging it
[06:40:13] <Steffanx> Who write assembly anyway? :P
[06:40:31] <Steffanx> *writes
[06:40:39] <OndraSter_> I do
[06:40:40] <OndraSter_> :P
[06:40:47] <grummund_> first step could have been to paste the .inc file in place of the .include statement and see if still happens.
[06:41:04] <OndraSter_> grummund_, yeah, I started doing that like 5 minutes before I discovered that .org
[06:41:06] <grummund_> at least that's what i was about to suggest
[06:41:12] <OndraSter_> the thing is, I had the file scrolled that it was showing my header
[06:41:15] <OndraSter_> but the .org was BEFORE my header
[06:41:17] <OndraSter_> so I didn't notice it
[06:42:25] <grummund_> or: grep .org *.inc
[06:42:33] <OndraSter_> ... windows here
[06:42:43] <grummund_> on well
[06:42:46] <OndraSter_> cat output.lss | grep org
[06:42:48] <grummund_> *oh
[06:42:48] <OndraSter_> :P
[06:42:58] <Steffanx> Install mingw or something, it gives you linux tools
[06:43:00] <OndraSter_> type output.lss | find .org
[06:43:02] <OndraSter_> or something like that
[06:43:10] <grummund_> Cygwin FTW
[06:43:39] <Steffanx> That gives you linux tools in the standard windows command line grummund_ ?
[06:43:42] <OndraSter_> ye
[06:44:03] <grummund_> Steffanx: yep. kinda like a Linux distro, but on Windows.
[06:44:08] <OndraSter_> well, time to test if the flashing works fine, because before that the SPM instruction was always before NRWW section, so it wasn't executed :P
[06:44:28] <Steffanx> Yes, i know grummund_ .. but i thought cygwin has it's own terminal
[06:45:00] <grummund_> not quite
[06:46:02] <grummund_> Bash runs in a "dos box"
[06:46:36] <grummund_> so it looks like cygwin terminal but really it's Bash running in a dos window
[06:48:25] <Steffanx> So you have to start cygwin and not just run "cmd"? :)
[06:49:08] <dekroning> I have a ATMEGA2560 and I would like to extra the code from it, there is an ICSP port next to it, I should be able to dump via that port right ?
[06:49:15] <grummund_> i guess you can run cygwin progs direct from dos or windows, if that's what you mean.
[06:50:08] <Steffanx> No, forget about it grummund_
[06:50:16] <grummund_> not sure what you mean Steffanx
[06:50:17] <Steffanx> If the lock bits aren't set dekroning ..
[06:50:19] <grummund_> ok :)
[06:50:31] <Steffanx> I mean you have to start Cygwin, and not just start the standard windows command line
[06:50:45] <Steffanx> *meant
[06:50:49] <dekroning> Steffanx: how can I find out if the lock bits aren't set ?
[06:51:07] <Steffanx> Try to reset the device, just be sure you don't erase it
[06:51:11] <Steffanx> *reset = read
[06:52:12] <dekroning> Steffanx: via AVRStudio your talking about rich t?
[06:54:25] <Steffanx> You can read the fuses in AVR studio too.. that's easier
[06:58:16] <dekroning> ok cool
[07:01:19] <grummund_> Steffanx:
http://i44.tinypic.com/55f28l.png
[07:01:57] <Steffanx> That's just .. start -> run "cmd" grummund_ ?
[07:03:00] <grummund_> well, using shortcut to cmd from start menu
[07:03:04] <grummund_> same thing
[07:03:31] <grummund_> %SystemRoot%\system32\cmd.exe
[07:05:13] <grummund_> not sure why one would want to do that though
[07:17:29] <scuzzy> quick question
[07:17:57] <scuzzy> if I drive an unpowered AVR gpio pin high while it has no power
[07:18:03] <scuzzy> can is sink a lot of current?
[07:18:24] <scuzzy> ie: is it a dangerous thing to do?
[07:18:44] <amee2k> mmh, depends, but generally not advisable i'd say
[07:19:13] <amee2k> you'd forward bias the ESD clamping diodes and start driving the power rail through the protection diode
[07:19:23] <scuzzy> yeah, that's what I thought
[07:19:36] <scuzzy> say I have 2 devices that power up independentyle, and they talk on say uart
[07:19:43] <amee2k> except for the reset pin, which doesn't have the diode to the positive rail for the high-voltage programming thing
[07:19:51] <scuzzy> is it advisable to put some kind of buffer in between
[07:20:16] <amee2k> i'd at least put a resistor in the signal lines to prevent excessive current flow
[07:20:46] <amee2k> put it as close as possible to the input pin. when the receiving MCU is powered, the input becomes high impedance and the resistor won't matter anymore
[07:20:56] <Steffanx> What is the state of pins of a unpowered AVR?
[07:21:03] <Steffanx> Or is that 'unknown'?
[07:21:34] <amee2k> i'd say high impedance until the voltage is high or low enough to forward bias the protection diodes
[07:21:37] <amee2k> but i never measured it
[07:22:34] <Steffanx> Oh, you CAN power the AVR by it's i/o pins ( at least i've seen that a few times), so probably it's not very safe
[07:22:52] <amee2k> hence why i recommended the resistor
[07:23:40] <amee2k> unless the load on the power rail is low enough that the rail would float high even with a resistor
[07:24:19] <amee2k> in any case, you should make sure your device still operates properly in case the receiving MCU intermittently powers up
[07:25:07] <scuzzy> yeah
[07:25:12] <scuzzy> I thought of using the resistor as well
[07:25:25] <scuzzy> like a 5k or something?
[07:25:38] <amee2k> should work
[07:25:41] <scuzzy> cool
[07:25:42] <scuzzy> thanks
[07:25:58] <amee2k> i'd say anything between 1k and 10k would be a starting point
[07:26:27] <amee2k> the limiting factor would be stray capacitance between the resistor and up to and including the input pin
[07:26:59] <scuzzy> think it'll cause problems at high speed?
[07:27:05] <scuzzy> this is usart we are talking about
[07:27:18] <scuzzy> 115200
[07:27:36] <amee2k> uarts can go way into the Mbaud range too :)
[07:28:09] <amee2k> they can go at pretty much any speed as long as both ends use the same setting
[07:28:11] <scuzzy> the one I'm talking about is limited to 115200
[07:28:15] <scuzzy> (the other device)
[07:28:33] <amee2k> then i wouldn't expect any problems, but can't hurt to be careful
[07:28:51] <scuzzy> well, I'm talking about protecting my AVR
[07:28:54] <scuzzy> from this modem
[07:29:08] <scuzzy> as the modem is going to be powered up first
[07:29:29] <scuzzy> what would you do?
[07:29:32] <scuzzy> add a buffer chip?
[07:30:15] <scuzzy> or is that a really bad idea?
[07:31:20] <amee2k> mmh does that modem have TTL level outputs?
[07:31:38] <scuzzy> 3.3v uart
[07:31:43] <scuzzy> that's all
[07:31:48] <amee2k> if it is a generic RS232 modem, you definitely should use a driver chip
[07:31:52] <amee2k> ah, okay
[07:32:48] <scuzzy> so, what would you do?
[07:33:03] <scuzzy> just throw in a resistor?
[07:33:14] <amee2k> i'd say the series resistor should do. even if you put a buffer chip inbetween you'd be having a similar problem with that one anyway
[07:33:49] <scuzzy> yeah, thought so
[07:34:23] <amee2k> you could make a buffer with a couple transistor that would tolerate voltages outside the rails
[07:34:38] <scuzzy> one could use a logic gate for this
[07:34:48] <scuzzy> ie: if AVR has power AND pin is high,
[07:34:48] <scuzzy> etc
[07:34:52] <amee2k> but as long as the load on your power rail is high enough that it won't float high from the drive current, i wouldn't bother
[07:35:58] <amee2k> at 115kbaud i'd just make a buffer from NPN transistors or something
[07:36:49] <amee2k> unless you happen to have a spare gate somewhere, then you can just use that
[07:37:21] <scuzzy> 3904's can't deliver much current anyway I suppose
[07:37:35] <amee2k> they don't need to for just a logic buffer
[07:37:46] <scuzzy> actually true
[07:37:58] <scuzzy> as long as the input current is driven by the AVR's power supply
[07:38:04] <scuzzy> you're a for away
[07:38:13] <amee2k> two 3904s and a bunch of 10k resistors should work fine
[07:38:14] <scuzzy> cool
[07:38:16] <scuzzy> thanks very much
[07:38:21] <scuzzy> yeah
[07:38:33] <amee2k> a discrete buffer wouldn't have the protection diodes of an IC input
[07:38:54] <amee2k> even if the modem drives the pin high, it would just cause a bit of base current to flow to ground, thats it
[07:39:08] <amee2k> no current would get onto the supply rail
[07:44:42] <scuzzy> cool, thanks
[07:45:20] <amee2k> you're welcome :)
[07:54:09] <OndraSter> wtf
[07:54:12] <OndraSter> Dragon doesn't want to connect
[07:54:15] <OndraSter> I can change fuses etc
[07:54:23] <OndraSter> AVR Studio was unable to start your debug session.
[07:54:23] <OndraSter> Please verify that the debugger is correctly attached to the target and that target power has been switched on. Also verify that the correct device and interface settings have been specified in the project.
[07:54:32] <OndraSter> TCF command: Processes:launch failed: Code:131107 ,Service:Processes ,Message from peer:bad allocation
[07:55:32] <Steffanx> Reboot, that always works with windows
[07:56:04] <OndraSter> just did that
[07:56:08] <OndraSter> AVR Studio 4 is fine
[07:56:16] <OndraSter> (I downgraded the firmware on Dragon)
[07:57:44] <Steffanx> ok
[08:07:00] <OndraSter> hmm
[08:07:03] <OndraSter> let's reinstalll AS5
[08:07:08] <OndraSter> I have build 1156
[08:07:12] <OndraSter> it is 1223 already out
[08:17:00] <OndraSter> hmm
[08:17:02] <OndraSter> doesn't work
[08:17:02] <OndraSter> WHY
[08:17:07] <OndraSter> I reinstalled avr jungo usb driver too
[08:17:35] <Steffanx> So it still works with as4?
[08:18:30] <OndraSter> yes
[08:18:37] <OndraSter> it worked wtih AS5 yesterday too
[08:20:58] <OndraSter> I shall try different PC
[08:33:39] <OndraSter> same error on laptop
[08:38:16] <amee2k> anyone know a paper or appnote on li-ion / li-po charging procedures?
[08:40:57] <OndraSter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMlc888E3kI
[08:40:59] <OndraSter> I recorded it
[08:41:03] <OndraSter> I can open device settings, ...
[08:41:05] <OndraSter> but I can NOT debug
[08:44:05] <OndraSter> sorry for the music on the background, I forgot that it is recorded too
[08:51:19] <OndraSter> damnit WHY
[08:51:21] <OndraSter> I tried diff USB too
[08:52:13] <OndraSter> hmm
[08:52:17] <OndraSter> AVR Simulator won't launch either
[08:52:18] <OndraSter> wtf
[08:54:40] <OndraSter> ok simulator launches when there is something beginning on offset 00
[08:54:46] <OndraSter> otherwise throws the same error
[08:54:51] <OndraSter> didn't help with JTAG though
[08:58:58] <OndraSter> UH
[08:59:01] <OndraSter> if I revert to older code
[08:59:02] <OndraSter> it works
[08:59:08] <OndraSter> there is nasty bug somewhere :(
[09:03:21] <OndraSter> huh
[09:03:25] <OndraSter> it does the exactly same thing o_O
[09:03:28] <OndraSter> with the 0x00
[09:03:31] <OndraSter> if there is NO code at 0x00
[09:03:34] <OndraSter> it fails with that error
[09:08:48] <dekroning> anyone know if there is interested by the atmel people to get avrstudio on mac osx ?
[09:09:07] <OndraSter> considering that new AS5 is running on top of Visual Studio
[09:09:07] <OndraSter> I doubt it
[09:10:34] <dekroning> ah toobad
[09:10:48] <dekroning> I was hoping they would start using like eclipse or netbeans, like mplabx for pic
[09:15:37] <OndraSter> both are some utter shi*e. I always have to close my eyes and swallow any pride I have left when launching Eclipse or netbeans at school :(
[09:29:10] <BusError> I made a thingy that reads the tiny85 temperature sensor... and also a mpc9800 12 bits i2c sensor.. Both sensors return me temps that are quite a bit higher than ambiant (mpc=29, tiny=25, ambiant is 20) -- there is no obvious reason for that, I can imagine the t85 being a bit higher due to it running at 16.5Mhz, but the external sensor I don't see why. Anyone had any experience with that ?
[09:37:15] <amee2k> um.. there is an industry standard for "smart li-ion battery packs"??
[09:37:48] <amee2k> BusError: the thermometer you used to confirm the temperature reading is off?
[09:38:50] <BusError> well it;s the probe from my Fluke, I'd hope it isn't :-) also it doesn't feel like 28 nor 25 in my office :-)
[09:39:21] <amee2k> do you have a second thermometer?
[09:39:40] <amee2k> ideally an infrared sensing one so you could measure the device's package temperature
[09:39:58] <amee2k> if in doubt, stick it into ice water and see how close to zero it reads
[09:41:09] <Casper> amee2k: smbus
[09:42:06] <amee2k> yeah, i just read about it in a maxim appnote
[09:42:13] <BusError> I have another, USB one that returnd me 25 also... (a temper)
[09:42:15] <amee2k> i'd never have expected that
[09:42:49] <Casper> but
[09:43:04] <Casper> the problem is that manu manufacturer also add their own stuff on top of it
[09:43:17] <Casper> some is said to even encrypt the data!
[09:43:44] <amee2k> i've been considering making a "power box" that contains a 7.4V RC battery pack and 13.5V step-up converter
[09:44:02] <amee2k> but if there is a standard spec, using aftermarket laptop battery packs seems so much easier
[09:44:03] <BusError> IR thermo returns about 24 around that IC
[09:44:36] <amee2k> BusError: then i'd trust the 25 reading. i can't tell you why the MPC reads so high though
[09:45:03] <amee2k> tbh i'd have expected it to be the other way since the MCU's built in sensor and reference is supposed to be kinda shit
[09:45:24] <BusError> yeah
[09:45:41] <BusError> so far it returns me the closest. The MPC9800 is 12 bits goodness, normaly
[09:46:08] <BusError> with 0.1 accuracy, if you use the bias function...
[09:47:46] <amee2k> Casper: next thing that would be awesome would be if there is a standard connector for them too >_>
[09:48:10] <amee2k> http://www.insidemylaptop.com/images/open-dell-laptop-battery/take-apart-dell-battery-02.jpg << i've seen multi-pin blade connectors like that on lots of packs, but i can't find anything about it
[10:21:12] * Casper is listening to "#5631 - Various - Mai HiME OST vol. 1 - 23 - Mezame"
[10:21:19] <Casper> woops
[10:21:31] <Casper> amee2k:
http://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/sites/default/files/DELL-D500-D600-battery-connector-pinout.jpg
[10:22:00] <Casper> google image for battery pinout
[10:24:24] <amee2k> i don't doubt that i could find the pinout, but i'd need a bay with suitable connectors
[10:24:55] <Casper> yeah... and also to find out the proper protocol and proper detection of faults
[10:25:09] <Casper> the charger is in part the battery pack itself...
[10:25:29] <amee2k> yeah. the pack controller also monitors charge state, which would be extremely handy
[10:27:23] <rue_bed> it might be by chage counter, I think maxim makes them
[10:27:27] <rue_bed> charge
[10:27:49] <rue_bed> its basically a coulomb... counter
[10:40:27] <Casper> some of them say coulomb counter... but use a plain current shunt...
[10:40:37] <Casper> the datasheet say 0.1%, the pack used 5%
[10:40:46] <Casper> but hey, who care
[10:51:19] <rue_house> http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3958
[10:53:22] <rue_house> oh I forgot dallas bought maxim
[10:55:38] <Casper> it seems like all what they do is Vbatt*Ibatt and integrate it...
[10:55:41] <Casper> and that's it
[11:06:27] <rue_house> prolly
[11:07:04] <rue_house> get a datasheet for one of the chips and see if they say
[11:07:52] <Casper> man that was painfull
[11:08:13] <Casper> microsoft dot net framework 1.0 was corrupt
[11:09:13] <rue_house> solution: dont use microsoft .net
[11:09:30] <Casper> how to fix? first, the 2.0 depend on 1.0, so need to remove the 2... that the 2 depend on, so remove 3 first... that 3.5 depoend on... so remove 3.5 first... but no... 4 depend on it... so remove 4, then 3.5, then 3, then 2, then 1.... and no... the install is corrupt....
[11:09:35] <rue_house> http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX17043-MAX17044.pdf
[11:10:01] <rue_house> like all other microsoft garbage eh? just pile the heap deeper
[11:10:52] <rue_house> ooo I wonder what those protection ic s are, want to know mroe about themand their fets
[11:12:13] <Casper> the solution was to finally get a third party .net cleaner
[11:12:45] <Casper> the cleaner removed everything, now I can install
[11:13:42] <rue_house> I"d suggest going down a bit further, remove windows...
[11:14:54] <Casper> client comp
[11:14:55] <Casper> can't
[11:15:59] <rue_house> there's a way to have linux take a static image of windows so that anything doen during the session isn't saved, if they seperate their os and data partitions it might be workable
[11:16:06] <rue_house> snapshot thing
[11:17:00] <Casper> but still can get some virus...
[11:17:07] <rue_house> I suppose you could have windows run via VM and not let it modify its image, meaning it would boot and shutdown really fast
[11:17:08] <Casper> because it's the return of MBR virus...
[11:17:37] <rue_house> hahaha, widnows is STILL suseptible to MBR?
[11:18:51] <OndraSter> what is MBR
[11:18:53] <OndraSter> GPT?
[11:19:21] <grummund_> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+MBR
[11:19:28] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> GPT?
[11:19:31] <OndraSter> I ofc know what is MBR
[11:19:41] <OndraSter> and I wanted to note that it is now replaced by GPT
[11:19:52] <Casper> yes and no
[11:20:03] <OndraSter> 2TB+ drives can't use MBR anymore
[11:20:19] <Casper> true and false
[11:20:27] <OndraSter> well
[11:20:28] <Casper> it's still a bootable sector
[11:20:29] <OndraSter> 2TB partition
[11:20:54] <Casper> but I do not know if that virus work on GPT
[11:21:09] <Casper> it's rare that we have a computer with a bootable drive of 2+TB
[11:21:21] <Casper> most are 500G or 640G
[11:21:35] <Casper> because people get acer junk or low end hp
[11:22:04] <OndraSter> hehe
[11:23:28] <Casper> and of course, windows install cd do not wipe the mbr
[11:23:41] <Casper> not even the ghost software that the maker use
[11:24:26] <rue_house> microsoft reccomends using linux to do work on the mbr, in the last help ticket I saw
[11:24:52] <rue_house> you sure you got the flags right on mbr?
[11:24:56] <Tom_itx> what about MBR?
[11:24:59] <rue_house> by default it does nothing
[11:25:08] <Tom_itx> theBear had a solution for getting MBR back
[11:25:54] <Tom_itx> fdisk /mbr to recover from a dual boot system
[11:26:07] <rue_house> no idiot would BOOT from a 2T+ partition would they?
[11:26:16] <Casper> my solution? boot hiren's boot cd, start the WD diag, make it quick format the hd... it wipe the first and last 500MB of the drive
[11:26:20] <Tom_itx> not this one
[11:26:29] <OndraSter> rue_house, 3x2TB in RAID5?
[11:26:38] <Casper> Tom_itx: but that do not work for mbr virus, as they are in ram and jump back to the hd
[11:26:57] <rue_house> you dont boot off a partition that large tho
[11:27:04] <grummund_> y?
[11:27:08] <rue_house> you use a smaller os partition
[11:27:15] <rue_house> because its moronic
[11:27:26] <Tom_itx> because usually the boot is the one that gets clobbered
[11:27:28] <rue_house> the only reason you would have a partition that size is to store data
[11:27:29] <grummund_> pls explain
[11:27:33] <OndraSter> yes, I have 80GB system partition too
[11:27:38] <OndraSter> but if you have >2TB drive
[11:27:42] <OndraSter> you make 100GB boot partition
[11:27:44] <OndraSter> and then the rest for data
[11:27:47] <rue_house> you do NOT store data on the same partition as windwos resides on
[11:27:50] <OndraSter> you need GPT to create >2TB partition
[11:28:10] <rue_house> mainly cause windows has to be reinstalled frequintly and this conflicts with having data stored on the partiion
[11:28:12] <grummund_> rue_house: you're right, i don't. but you haven't said why
[11:28:49] <rue_house> having data on your os partition is asking for data loss
[11:29:05] <grummund_> why?
[11:29:31] <OndraSter> if your system crashes
[11:29:36] <OndraSter> it is easy to just format the parititon
[11:29:38] <OndraSter> and install the system again
[11:29:52] <OndraSter> instead doing backups through some live linux DVD or winPE
[11:29:52] <rue_house> with windows, problems often require a completel wipe of the os partition to prolerly fix them
[11:30:13] <OndraSter> plus, where would you backup 2TB drive to
[11:30:17] <OndraSter> you'd need another one
[11:30:24] <rue_house> even on linux I keep the os and data partitions seperate
[11:30:43] <grummund_> i guess so, but it never happened to me... even though i do keep data on a separate physical disk.
[11:31:15] <rue_house> my data partition does happen to be on a seperate drive
[11:31:20] <rue_house> I use a SDD for my os drive
[11:31:24] <rue_house> SSD :)
[11:31:33] <Casper> in the old time of win98, there was an easy way to do it
[11:31:35] <rue_house> speeds things up awesome
[11:32:04] <Casper> boot dos, deltree windows deltree progra~1 deltree docume~1
[11:32:23] <Casper> then boot the cd, do not format
[11:32:56] <rue_house> ?
[11:33:07] <rue_house> you just use the partition tool in the installer
[11:33:18] <rue_house> I didn't used to use dos did I?
[11:33:28] <BusError> eagle is spamming me to upgrade to their V$6 everytime I launch. Any workaround ?
[11:33:51] <rue_house> there is a program that looks for dialouge windows and automatically clicks buttons for you
[11:33:55] <rue_house> in winsows
[11:34:01] <rue_house> BusError, windows or linux?
[11:34:07] <BusError> linux
[11:34:14] <rue_house> oh, then just downgrade it
[11:34:22] <OndraSter> how will that help?
[11:34:35] <rue_house> one of the older version isn't capable of nagging you
[11:34:46] <OndraSter> ah
[11:34:53] <BusError> yeah, one of the few little things they added was the nagware bit
[11:35:17] <rue_house> or, pretend your on widnows and its just ANOTHER thing you have to click before you can do what your trying to do
[11:35:31] <OndraSter> ..
[11:35:37] <OndraSter> I should note that I am hard MS fan lol
[11:35:45] <BusError> That eagle buyout was not such a good idea after all...
[11:35:45] <OndraSter> WinPho7 is my phone
[11:36:01] <rue_house> who bought them?
[11:36:07] <BusError> Farnell
[11:36:21] <rue_house> I guess farnell didn't want people to use it
[11:36:22] <BusError> then the free version vanished, and the new upgrade is $$$
[11:36:32] <rue_house> oh well, everyone will move to something else
[11:36:40] <rue_house> was the old eagle open source?
[11:37:03] <BusError> yeah. is Kicad usable these days ? last time I checked, it was a bit "primitive" in comparison...
[11:37:19] <grummund_> rue_house: nope.
[11:37:40] <BusError> no, always closed... but "stable"... ie no earth shatetering changes, but you could trust it to work
[11:38:27] <grummund_> Kicad has some fans, as does gEDA. Btw, you are all welcome at ##pcb
[11:38:49] <Steffanx> BusError "then the free version vanished, and the new upgrade is $$$" ?!
[11:39:38] <rue_house> farnell <-> element14 or farnell the semi manuf?
[11:39:58] <grummund_> farnell make semis?
[11:40:08] <ben1066> pmbus with avr, yay nay?
[11:40:21] <BusError> Steffanx, yeah, no more free version, it;s called "light" now, and costs money
[11:40:49] <Steffanx> That's not true BusError .. i have the free version
[11:40:49] <Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/EAGLE-20120114-183130.png
[11:40:55] <Steffanx> Nothing non-free about it
[11:41:16] <Steffanx> For hobby use that is
[11:41:38] <ben1066> anyone here used pmbus?
[11:42:02] <BusError> They /sell/ the light version in their order page!
[11:42:24] <grummund_> for commercial use probably
[11:42:49] <BusError> oh the freeware page points to the light version too. doh
[11:42:51] <Steffanx> I just clicked on 'freeware' when they asked me for a license, just like the previous versions
[11:44:26] <BusError> Steffanx,
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/shop/pricing/?language=en claims it's $70. WTF
[11:44:47] <ben1066> anyone...?
[11:45:26] <Steffanx> Didn't 5.0 also have an option like that BusError .. you can use it for free but you can pay too if you want?
[11:45:58] <BusError> no never checked. I have a v5 "standard" "non profit" license
[11:46:41] <Steffanx> Just give it a try? Here it runs next to 5.0
[11:47:06] <Steffanx> but i'm not sure if it does on linux too
[11:47:38] <Steffanx> BusError, it still asks for it:
http://www.naffets.nl/share/EAGLE-20120114-183828.png
[11:48:50] <BusError> maybe the free version will be able to convert all my boards to xml.. the Kicad guys etc must be doing importing code I hope
[11:49:04] <Steffanx> kicad :(
[11:49:25] <Steffanx> KiCAD didn't run very well on os x the last time I tried it :(
[11:50:00] <BusError> no it doesn't worked very well on linux when I tried it either, but it was a long while ago :-)
[11:54:37] <grummund_> anyone use gEDA ?
[11:55:07] <Steffanx> Isn't that also a tool for programmers by programmeres?
[11:56:09] <grummund_> apparantly it has more of a "tool-chain" make up than integrated packages like Eagle/Kicad, so yeah... probably ;)
[12:03:16] <virtuald> steffanx:
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/downloads/freeware/ doesn't work?
[12:03:48] <virtuald> or maybe it was buserror who asked
[12:03:51] <Steffanx> For it it does
[12:04:30] <BusError> yeah, the fact the "light" version is both free AND $70 is a "bit" confusing
[12:04:38] <virtuald> :)
[12:21:49] <Casper> BusError: not confusing
[12:22:01] <Casper> free is free for home and non-profit organisation
[12:22:12] <Casper> the pay version allow you to make money with it
[12:23:35] <BusError> well time to see how kicad has evolved anyway
[12:37:03] <ben1066> Hm, has anyone used avrs adc with oversampling and decimation as specified in appnote avr121?
[12:37:35] <ben1066> im desining a power supply and need to measure the output voltage :)
[12:39:50] <ben1066> or would I be better using a proper adc?
[13:15:27] <grummund_> Steffanx: it appears you are right Cygwin does have its own terminal program
[13:15:36] <Steffanx> :D
[13:15:54] <Steffanx> That's what I remembered from the last time i tried it
[13:16:01] <grummund_> it must be a "recent" development :P, i am still running bash in a dos window.
[13:16:43] <Steffanx> Sure that's because of cygwin?
[13:17:54] <grummund_> it's how it used to be
[13:29:30] <ben1066> can anyone answer my abaove question?
[13:30:02] <Steffanx> No i cant
[13:33:35] <Steffanx> A simple 10bit isn't enough for your power supply ben1066 ?
[13:34:01] <Steffanx> Steps of 0.03V(when the max is 30V) is OK for must uses..
[13:35:33] <ben1066> Hmm, but what's it's accuracy like?
[13:35:47] <ben1066> I'll probly add a 10mv 5v reference to the aref
[13:39:38] <ben1066> and plus im probly doing 20V max, although itd be nice to have the 0.01v precision
[13:40:37] <ben1066> that way ill be pretty accurate :)
[13:40:58] <BusError> Ok tried Kicad, I can now park it again fir the next 3 years or so
[13:41:22] <BusError> Program that moves my mouse pointer for me -> trash
[13:41:25] <ben1066> lol, I dont like it either :P
[13:42:35] <ben1066> for a power supply, should I use switchmode or linear?
[13:42:57] <BusError> depends. what do you power ?
[13:43:16] <ben1066> Itll be a power supply I use for testing things more than anything
[13:43:24] <ben1066> accuracy is fairly important
[13:43:46] <BusError> probably linear then, usualy smoother
[13:43:55] <ben1066> the issue i have with linear is the heat
[13:44:05] <ben1066> if you want 0-20v range for example
[13:44:09] <ben1066> the heat is rediculous
[13:44:18] <BusError> yeah
[13:45:27] <BusError> personaly I use cheapo "Car USB adapter"s now. most now use a switcher inside, and most can be configured using a couple of resistors. Thats what I use to power my projects. For testing stuff, I use a maplin bench supply
[13:45:37] <ziph> But switchmodes can often have 50mV or so of ripple on their outputs.
[13:46:38] <BusError> yeah, they do... in a lot of cases it's not important, thats why I asked. if you do audio or need precise ADC, Linear is often a lot better
[13:47:02] <ziph> Or hybrid; the rejection of most linears is 50-60dB.
[13:47:05] <nofxx> Anyone got a bus pirate? Need to choose: v3b from ebay (single chip looks cool) #35 or v3 from seedstudio $30
[13:47:09] <ben1066> hmm, what about using an inductor and cap on the output, doesnt that clean it up a lot
[13:47:32] <Casper> ben1066: this is why many use an hybrid technology
[13:48:06] <ben1066> also, i'm strugling to find a linear supply that goes really low
[13:48:06] <Casper> they use a smps preregulator and a linear (ldo maybe) regulator on the output
[13:48:20] <Casper> ben1066: how much current?
[13:48:20] <ziph> ben1066: Low on the output voltage? That should be no issue for them.
[13:48:38] <ben1066> Casper: my issue with that is control, i cant find a method to control something as such
[13:49:01] <ben1066> ziph: for switchmode sure, but linear can be a bit of a pain from what I've seen, unless I get a negative rail
[13:49:02] <Casper> ben1066: get a DAC
[13:49:10] <ben1066> Casper: that doesnt help...
[13:49:16] <ziph> ben1066: What's this for?
[13:49:38] <Casper> ben1066: control by software or knob?
[13:49:42] <ben1066> ive spent hours tring to find a suitable controller for variable switchmode that doesnt rely on a potentiometter, they dont exist as far as I can tell
[13:50:01] <ben1066> I dont really care either way, software would be nice, but i'd end up using it the same
[13:50:12] <ben1066> well, possibly not, I guess id use buttons
[13:50:35] <Casper> there is always a mean to program an smps
[13:50:35] <ben1066> 8, 2 for each digit, up and down 1
[13:50:47] <Steffanx> nofxx doesn't matter
[13:50:47] <ben1066> Casper: noramlly via a voltage divider
[13:50:48] <Steffanx> "A minor update to v3 available from June 2011. All changes are cosmetic, v3.5 works exactly the same a v3a/b."
[13:50:57] <Casper> for example, use a DAC for the reference instead of the internal one
[13:51:05] <ben1066> most dont allow an external ref
[13:51:25] <Casper> then have some fun with opamp
[13:51:30] <nofxx> Steffanx, now that I'm reading the wiki I've found there's a v4, the ebay v3b uses the same layout
[13:51:46] <ben1066> Casper: Sure if I understood what to do, I dont :P
[13:51:48] <Casper> use a negative voltage on the ground feedback and voila...
[13:51:50] <nofxx> single pic with usb embedded
[13:51:59] <nofxx> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate_v4_vs_v3_comparison
[13:52:07] <ben1066> Casper: what do you mean?
[13:52:42] <Steffanx> I would use seeed, nofxx .. as they are an 'official' seller
[13:52:45] <ziph> Or just buy a lab supply. :)
[13:52:53] <ben1066> ziph: now thats no fun :P
[13:52:58] <Casper> ben1066: how much current do you need?
[13:52:59] <ziph> ben1066: What current did you need?
[13:53:01] <ben1066> plus those with displays cost a good Ł100
[13:53:08] <ben1066> current, 1A maximum
[13:53:12] <ziph> ben1066: Ohh, nice and cheap.
[13:53:14] <Casper> lm317
[13:53:30] <ziph> ben1066: Oh, that's easy then, get a power opamp that does 3A or so and make it 1:1 a DAC.
[13:53:48] <Casper> feed a stable -1.2V to your pot
[13:53:54] <ziph> ben1066: As a bonus they will happily source and sink current.
[13:53:59] <Casper> and you get a 0-30V
[13:54:09] <ben1066> won't heat dissipation be an issue with the LM317?
[13:54:17] <Casper> heatsink it well
[13:54:20] <ben1066> if im aiming for 20V-0V
[13:54:27] <ben1066> and a negative at the same voltage :P
[13:54:35] <Casper> the package can, when heatsinked, dissipate up to 25W
[13:54:52] <ben1066> What sort of heatsink should I be using then?
[13:55:19] <Casper> if you want, use a pass pnp transistor, and you would move the heat to the pass transistor
[13:55:27] <ben1066> still got the heat, I don't see the point
[13:56:04] <ben1066> also, how do yuo heatsink a smd package?
[13:56:34] <ben1066> Adjustable output down to 1.2 not low enough...
[13:56:55] <ben1066> Oh wait, put -1.2 to the pot, to get down that far, i see
[13:57:19] <ben1066> they dont do -1.2v refs :P
[13:57:28] <ziph> ben1066: Power opamp will go rail to rail.
[13:57:53] <ben1066> power opamps are hardly designed for this though...
[13:58:05] <ziph> Huh?
[13:58:17] <ben1066> Oh wait, I missed the power bit
[13:58:21] <ziph> How so? :)
[13:58:28] <ziph> You can get opamps that will do 80A.
[13:59:20] <ben1066> are they accurate to say, 10mv?
[13:59:28] <ben1066> given a good enough dac that is :)
[14:00:09] <ziph> They're just like a normal opamp, so the same performance specs will apply.
[14:00:26] <ben1066> so a normal linear regulator will be more accurate?
[14:00:59] <ziph> You've used a lot of opamps with worse than 10mV offset voltage?
[14:01:25] <ben1066> Ive used not many opamps in general :P
[14:02:33] <ziph> http://www.ti.com/product/opa541
[14:02:34] <ziph> There's a bunch of them.
[14:02:40] <ziph> There's many others.
[14:03:08] <ben1066> sometimes it feels like ti are the only company that exist :P
[14:03:49] <ziph> Those were Burr Brown, so technically TI didn't design them. ;)
[14:03:54] <nofxx> Researching a cheap way to detect AC, don't need to measure it, just know if it's flowing... think a hall effect sensor will work? Pardon my ignorance in the subject...
[14:04:11] <ben1066> yea, but now ti own national, most of the datasheets I open are TI
[14:04:13] <ziph> nofxx: Honeywell current clamps?
[14:04:40] <ben1066> would the LM675 be suitable?
[14:04:41] <nofxx> ziph, yup, I know... but I was thinking cheap cuz I really don't need to measure it
[14:04:57] <ziph> $15 isn't cheap? :)
[14:05:15] <nofxx> ziph, 2$ is cheaper ;)
[14:05:59] <nofxx> 10cm of wire and make a coil should work I guess hehe
[14:06:57] <nofxx> Copper... does it really need to be ferrite heh? guess I missed some physics classes
[14:06:57] <ziph> Except then you need something with sufficient sensitivity to pick it up.
[14:07:30] <nofxx> ziph, true...
[14:08:02] <ziph> How are you going to mount it? The flux through a winding around a cord will be zero.
[14:10:15] <nofxx> ziph, trial and error. My electromechanical skills are pretty null. How many windings?
[14:11:59] <ziph> nofxx: And you'll have to split the live and neutral off anyhow to avoid them cancelling.
[14:12:30] <ben1066> hm ziph the issue I see with a power opamp is that it requires dual rails, and they both need to be accurate
[14:12:42] <ziph> nofxx: Dunno, dig up the equation for the field from a single conductor and then integrate over some rectangle next to it.
[14:12:44] <ben1066> a voltage regulator is easier in that sense :P
[14:12:48] <nofxx> ziph, yea, I'm aware.. I got one of these:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/noninvasive-ac-current-sensor-100a-max-p-547.html pretty cool
[14:13:13] <ziph> ben1066: I've used the rail to rail ones on single supplies before.
[14:13:54] <ziph> nofxx: Yeah, they use ferrites.
[14:15:53] <ziph> Anyhow, I'm off.
[14:16:04] <ben1066> Ok then, what about the issue of having a stable known rail?
[14:16:15] <ben1066> I effectively end up havinga voltage regulator anyway :P
[14:16:35] <ziph> ben1066: Why does the rail need to be known?
[14:16:37] <ben1066> from where I am standing, its just more room for error...
[14:17:31] <ben1066> How is the gain set?
[14:17:50] <ziph> ben1066: You set it up as a unity gain amplifier, with the input from a DAC.
[14:17:57] <ben1066> Ooh, what I do like is the fact that it also has current limit, thats a nice addition
[14:18:11] <ziph> An adjustable current limit.
[14:18:28] <ben1066> indeed
[14:18:43] <ben1066> So I could stop whatever I'm using it for from drawing too much power
[14:19:06] <ziph> ben1066: You take the input and feed it back without any division, so there's no resistor error to worry about either.
[14:19:10] <ben1066> would the OPA569
[14:25:19] <ben1066> would the OPA569 be suitable?
[14:27:25] <ben1066> im struggling to find how to set the gain
[14:33:49] <ben1066> YEa, I was right, opamp doesnt really work unless I have a precision opamp since the gain cant be set, from what I can tell...
[14:52:08] <ben1066> wait im just being dumb :P
[14:52:17] <ben1066> I still cant work out the schematic though D:
[14:52:35] <ben1066> sorry if im a bit of an idiot, but Ive not really worked with opamps
[14:55:10] <ben1066> ziph: dont suppose you could explain how this would work? I get how the current limit is set, the datasheet tells me that, but it doesnt tell me about gain D:
[15:12:17] <ben1066> and also, would a trim pot be a better idea for gain, so i can compensate?
[15:47:52] <eatyourguitar> lol @ apple has a patent for processing serial data in realtime
http://1.usa.gov/pg4eFP
[15:47:58] <eatyourguitar> dicks
[15:48:21] <amee2k> cool
[15:48:49] <amee2k> they could sue everyone who has developed their own uart/twi or spi interface/whatever
[15:48:58] <BusError> well someone else has a 1995 patent for loading components dynamically. 30 years after it was done
[15:49:13] <amee2k> i wonder if i could patent sex
[15:50:33] <eatyourguitar> the court actually confirmed that apple can use this patent to stop sales of HTC phones
[15:50:50] <amee2k> the patent on sex?
[15:50:51] <eatyourguitar> until HTC pays the rape money
[15:51:05] <amee2k> i knew applefags were kinda kinky, but...
[15:51:41] <Roklobsta_> method of inserting appendage into plularity of orifii which may result in the production of single or plural beings with appendages and orifii.
[15:51:59] <eatyourguitar> perfect!
[15:52:04] <amee2k> ...
[15:52:10] <Roklobsta_> i hope that patenty enough
[15:52:25] * eatyourguitar GRANTS ROKLOBSTA_ A PATENT #848,333M3343M3400-1
[15:52:43] <Roklobsta_> i read a patent last week for R&D and it's such horrid use of english. i think there were new words in it.
[15:52:58] <Roklobsta_> and what could be said in 1000 words must have been 10000
[15:53:23] <amee2k> i wonder if i could patent patenting stuff
[15:53:45] <eatyourguitar> yeah R&D needs good R&Docity to work or the R&Divedends R&Divide
[15:53:52] <amee2k> then sue everyone else who has a patent for license money
[15:54:24] <Roklobsta_> well there is no point in patenting anything if you don't have a big sack of cash with which ti sue.
[15:54:27] <Roklobsta_> to
[15:54:45] <amee2k> sure there is
[15:54:54] <amee2k> sell the patent for an equally big sack of cash
[15:54:56] <eatyourguitar> I just sue people with my sack
[15:55:09] <amee2k> so someone else can make an even larger sack of cash from sueing people
[15:55:11] <eatyourguitar> its pretty scary and intimidating
[15:55:15] <Roklobsta_> i think you are thinking of teabagging.
[15:55:30] * amee2k spews his tea all over Roklobsta_
[15:55:32] <amee2k> ...
[15:55:35] <eatyourguitar> the only point of a lawsuit is to intimidate
[15:55:43] <amee2k> that was exactly the mental image i needed >_<
[15:55:54] <amee2k> eatyourguitar: or to make money
[15:56:04] <eatyourguitar> through intimidation
[15:56:11] <Roklobsta_> anyway, another major company which did some neat and cutting edge stuff in a big way just relied on trade scerets and being ahead of the competition in a practical sense by 10 years
[15:56:17] <eatyourguitar> thats like extortion or blackmail or thugery
[15:56:17] <amee2k> i can buy pizza from intimidation
[15:56:44] <amee2k> erm
[15:56:47] <amee2k> can't* even
[15:56:58] <eatyourguitar> you can if you get away with it
[15:56:59] <nofxx> amee2k, I wonder if that guy with the sex over the wire patent got rich... heh it's a "fleshlight" with sensors for the man and a motorized dildo for the female, both usb
[15:57:04] <amee2k> so fuck intimidation. cash on dick head or gtfo
[15:57:15] <eatyourguitar> its called racketeering
[15:57:21] <Roklobsta_> to stay on topic it's probably got an avr in it.
[15:57:21] <amee2k> nofxx: you mean teledildonics?
[15:57:32] <eatyourguitar> give me the pizza for your protection
[15:57:37] <Roklobsta_> hmmm, teledongics.
[15:57:38] <amee2k> (and yes, there is a wikipedia article for that)
[15:57:38] <nofxx> amee2k, hahaha... yea, didn't knew it got a name
[15:57:51] <amee2k> (there even is a conference about it iirc)
[15:58:28] <nofxx> amee2k, theres even open source it !
http://wiki.opendildonics.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
[15:58:38] <eatyourguitar> he did say USB in the dildo so now were getting on topic
[15:58:38] <amee2k> :P
[16:00:52] <nofxx> eatyourguitar, DIY hardware (that's fun just by itself) is PIC only hahah...... OT again
[16:01:34] <Roklobsta> yeah I await the first home brew teledildo on Hackaday
[16:01:43] <eatyourguitar> well anyway I guess we started by talking about serial data :)
[16:52:04] <Steffanx> abcminiuser_ you should force (if possible in latex) to move code block to the next page when it doesn't fit anymore. (I'm referring to your Timer tutorial)
[16:52:13] <Steffanx> *code blocks
[16:53:48] <Steffanx> This is ugly:
http://www.naffets.nl/share/a-20120114-234438.png
[16:55:09] <Steffanx> And your comments are to long… now you can see thanks to the color it's a comment, but you can't see that when the documents is printed
[17:06:15] <abcminiuser_> Steffanx, good idea
[17:06:26] <abcminiuser_> I still need to tweak them a bit
[17:06:39] <abcminiuser_> First step is getting all my tutorials in LaTeX and PDFs
[17:06:46] <abcminiuser_> Then remove all old versions from everywhere
[17:06:52] <Steffanx> And combine it into a book?
[17:06:59] <abcminiuser_> Then link to the output PDFs, and fix them up individually
[17:07:04] <Steffanx> or whatever you all it
[17:07:06] <abcminiuser_> Nah, no one would buy it :P
[17:07:11] <Steffanx> Sure..
[17:07:19] <amee2k> how about print on demand?
[17:07:23] <Steffanx> And you don't work for Atmel
[17:07:57] <Roklobsta> where's your tutes hosted?
[17:08:00] <Roklobsta> url me?
[17:08:15] <amee2k> i'm thinking about moving my project documentation from OOo to latex sometime
[17:08:40] <amee2k> especially if i want to get into using fabricated boards this summer
[17:08:49] <Steffanx> OOo .. yes. Go with Latex
[17:09:03] <Roklobsta> i tried using scribus to do a paid manual job but it was a nightmare. Libreoffice ended up making somehting looking really nice.
[17:09:14] <amee2k> OOo is handy as a scratchpad because it is very WYSIWYG
[17:09:24] <Steffanx> When you know what to find where
[17:09:41] <Steffanx> Even with some tutorials I was unable to do certain things
[17:09:54] <amee2k> but i'm getting doubts about maintainability when it comes to medium to long term stuff
[17:09:59] <Steffanx> Probably because it was an outdate tut. and there was no newer one
[17:11:46] <amee2k> only mild problem is that the only latex exp i've got is like 2 years ago when we had a class that covered the basics of it
[17:15:10] <Roklobsta> save yourself hassle. libreoffice is fine and it's easy to made things like code boxes. a nice font to use is Gentium. libreoffice has low friction.
[17:15:37] <amee2k> most of the time i'm using Draw, actually
[17:16:14] <Roklobsta> prodigious and good use of styles in libreoffice and you can make nice looking docs.
[17:16:18] <amee2k> i've got a fairly comprehensive symbol library by now which makes drawing schematics pretty neat
[17:16:38] <amee2k> well, i know it looks good. still doesn't seem very maintainable to me
[17:16:43] <Roklobsta> i have been using inkscape for tech doc diagrams.
[17:16:56] <Roklobsta> what do you mean?
[17:17:03] <Roklobsta> how is it unmaintainable?
[17:17:08] <amee2k> and latex is the next best looking thing i can think of that i find is worth the try
[17:17:32] <amee2k> i don't know... just a feeling right now
[17:18:03] <Roklobsta> i ended up chosing libreoffice over latex and scribus so that the company paying me for the work could maintain the doc easily themsleves in the future.
[17:18:05] <amee2k> the file i've been using for conceptual work on my led module project is like 30 pages by now and it is getting fairly tedious to maintain a consistent style
[17:18:39] <amee2k> fuck, saving takes like a minute on my laptop by now
[17:20:01] <amee2k> also, i'm not too good at making it like "format itself"
[17:20:24] <amee2k> as in, if i change something upstream i usually end up making lots of corrections to latter stuff
[17:20:59] <Roklobsta> the trouble with latex is that without a lot of screwing about your doc looks like ever other scientific paper and book written in latex. kinda boring.
[17:21:01] <Roklobsta> and latexy.
[17:21:51] <Roklobsta> amee2k: a bit of work setting up styles in libreoffice that you like and then it's easy to maintain formatting.
[17:23:02] <amee2k> i'm pretty heavy with graphical kind of stuff and that doesn't work very text-ish
[17:23:48] <Roklobsta> do you have any pdfs of urls i can look at?
[17:23:49] <amee2k> as i said i came to use OOo as sort of a scratchpad. that probably generates a bunch of bad habits
[17:24:00] <amee2k> hmm lemme see
[17:25:04] <amee2k> http://ve504.cugnet.net/~amee2k/sandbox/led-board-2.pdf << way outdated, but still
[17:28:31] <Roklobsta> oh right.
[17:28:40] <Roklobsta> did yo usay you use ooo draw?
[17:29:01] <amee2k> yeah, i did >_>
[17:29:46] <amee2k> 00:06 < amee2k> most of the time i'm using Draw, actually
[17:29:52] <Roklobsta> okok
[17:31:40] <amee2k> :)
[17:38:10] <amee2k> so, what do you think?
[17:39:35] <Roklobsta> they look good. the trouble i have with such diagrams is the scaling if you want to add more text in then you have to jiggle eveything about. i tend to prefer just using tables now.
[17:42:22] <amee2k> well, they really are tables, i just used rectangles so i could easily rearrange them
[17:44:14] <amee2k> as for the I2C protocol diagrams, they're really like a bunch of HTML <span> tags in a way
[18:30:11] <pepsi_> aha
[18:30:28] <pepsi_> i have to run the iar keygen as administrator
[18:30:48] <pepsi_> then i get a valid key
[18:31:06] <Steffanx> Uhm, sure that's something to talk about in here pepsi_ ?
[18:32:37] <pepsi_> pretty sure, yeah
[18:34:10] <Steffanx> You also got a free trojan horse/virus for free?
[18:34:29] <pepsi_> that was in the other keygen
[18:34:53] <pepsi_> and you run keygens in a virtual machine sandbox, sillyhead
[18:35:20] <Steffanx> Who needs IAR Workbench anyway?
[18:35:51] <pepsi_> i like it, and think it's a worthwhile compiler
[18:36:04] <pepsi_> its only like $1500 anyhow
[18:36:06] <pepsi_> who cares
[18:36:14] <Steffanx> You don't
[18:36:23] <pepsi_> exactly
[18:36:48] <mrfrenzy> you might want to read the motd before talikin warez pepsi_
[18:37:03] <pepsi_> the topic?
[18:37:19] <Steffanx> /motd
[18:37:20] <mrfrenzy> no, /motd. the rules of freenode who runs the irc servers
[18:37:31] <pepsi_> http://www.sonsivri.to
[18:37:34] <mrfrenzy> there are other networks which allow warez and even distributes it if that's what you need
[18:37:59] <pepsi_> freenode seems perfectly acceptable for such activities
[18:38:01] <pepsi_> i fail to understand
[18:38:17] <mrfrenzy> no, they ban users engaging in such avtivities
[18:38:20] <pepsi_> omg
[18:41:55] <Steffanx> Good luck pepsi_
[18:42:05] <pepsi_> good luck with what?
[18:42:12] <Steffanx> Everything
[18:42:26] <pepsi_> well good luck to you too, Steffanx
[18:42:51] <Steffanx> And when I forget: Happy 2013
[18:43:02] <pepsi_> that's a year away
[18:43:35] <Steffanx> No, we should skip 2012 .. no end of the world :)
[18:57:35] <Roklobsta> what does IAR have over gcc?
[18:57:45] <Roklobsta> in terms of compiled code quality
[19:00:39] <Tom_itx> probably not much
[19:24:29] <Roklobsta> is the ide super awesome? better than avr4/5?
[19:25:26] <pepsi_> its an IDE
[19:25:45] <pepsi_> i was actually talking about IAR for ARM, but i didnt say that cause this is #avr
[19:25:49] <pepsi_> ;)
[19:26:07] <pepsi_> anyhow.. one thing IAR does have over gcc is awareness of multiple address spaces
[19:26:37] <pepsi_> so like.. __attribute("flash") or whatever the hell.. instead of that they have an actual qualifier _flash
[19:26:47] <pepsi_> and the qualifier actually works, unlike gcc's __attribute__
[19:27:50] <pepsi_> eg.. you can declare a function foo(char * _flash bar), and the compiler will yell at you if you dont pass it a pointer to a _flash char
[19:28:40] <pepsi_> whereas gcc's __attribute__ only works to place data in a certain address space.. it's not a real qualifier
[19:46:09] <Roklobsta> hrm, isn't there some fancy typedef that will at least generate a warning?
[19:47:21] <pepsi_> that's the point.. __attribute__("flash") isnt a qualfier.. so it gets lost in a typedef
[19:58:02] <Roklobsta> right
[19:58:16] <Roklobsta> i've used such qualifiers in a tasking compiler for the 8051
[19:58:40] <Roklobsta> so the compiler would differentiate the mov from a movc properly.
[20:00:00] <pepsi_> it gets ugly in gcc, for avr anyhow.. like if you have tables of pointers (stored in flash) to strings (also stored in flash)
[20:00:25] <pepsi_> you end up needing to use a macro to do the pointer dereference, since the compiler isnt aware of the flash address space
[20:00:45] <Roklobsta> i see gcc needs something similar as i have placed some strings in rom that are pushed out the serial port but the rest of my strings are RAM based.
[20:01:43] <pepsi_> you can store your strings in flash, you just need to pass them to functions that expect them to be in flash.. there's just nothing preventing you from passing a string in the wrong address space
[20:02:07] <Roklobsta> oh here we go:
[20:02:07] <Roklobsta> prog_char Monitor_Screen[SIZE_MONITOR_SCREEN]
[20:02:21] <Roklobsta> pepsi: i get you.
[20:02:55] <BrentBXR^> does it bother anyone else that all atmegas are basicly the same
[20:03:05] <BrentBXR^> besides size?
[20:03:12] <Roklobsta> no
[20:03:17] <Roklobsta> it's awesome
[20:03:17] <BrentBXR^> whys that
[20:03:20] <pepsi_> there are different families
[20:03:35] <pepsi_> the mega8515 is different from the mega88
[20:03:40] <BrentBXR^> how so
[20:03:55] <pepsi_> slightly different io layout, different revisions of peripherals
[20:03:56] <BrentBXR^> besides perhaps one peripheral or somthing
[20:04:05] <Roklobsta> sameish core sameish peripherals. i am going to develop an app on the 1280 board i have but the ultimate target will be an attiny87.
[20:04:09] <BrentBXR^> i dont think they have any differnt peripherals
[20:04:38] <pepsi_> isnt that the point? that they are the same?
[20:04:58] <Roklobsta> the xmega is the different beast
[20:05:01] <BrentBXR^> thats my point
[20:05:10] <BrentBXR^> xmegas are sweet
[20:05:22] <Roklobsta> the avr is like an airbus - you drive one you can drive them all
[20:05:57] <BrentBXR^> yes. I have tons of AVRs I ordered a few more blind and they came in
[20:06:02] <BrentBXR^> and it was the first time i really noticed
[20:06:06] <BrentBXR^> there was no reason to buy them
[20:06:15] <BrentBXR^> as they do nothing more then the other
[20:06:23] <BrentBXR^> i supposed i always knew it, just never thought of it
[20:06:25] <Casper> sometime less is more
[20:06:42] <BrentBXR^> having some AVRs smaller then others is fine
[20:06:50] <Roklobsta> it seems you can get an avr part with no more than you need for your application
[20:06:53] <BrentBXR^> but a broader range of peripherals and options would be nice
[20:07:09] <Roklobsta> a serial port with a buffer would be a good start
[20:07:10] <Roklobsta> fifo
[20:07:24] <BrentBXR^> i mean look at PICs peripheral range
[20:07:35] <BrentBXR^> IRDa, LAN, more...
[20:07:53] <BrentBXR^> i use both pics and AVRs its just weird to me
[20:07:57] <inflex> You seen the AVRs with 2.4GHz built in?
[20:08:01] <BrentBXR^> that they have so many familys but they do not change
[20:08:11] <BrentBXR^> oh there wireless ones
[20:08:17] <Roklobsta> best part for the job really
[20:08:20] <BrentBXR^> i have not looked into them ubt heard of them
[20:08:46] <inflex> I think the concept with the AVRs is more of a "just enough for getting a task done, else use an external device"
[20:09:13] <inflex> eg, they don't proliferate the die with a squillion mix-and-match peripherials
[20:09:19] <BrentBXR^> inflex, thats really your only choice if its there concept or not
[20:09:41] <BrentBXR^> i love avrs though
[20:09:45] <Roklobsta> but with SPI and I2C you can strap on anything you like
[20:09:48] <BrentBXR^> i hate PICs /4 speed
[20:09:56] <inflex> well, I suppose they're focusing more on being a "controller" chip, rather than a do-everything-SoC
[20:10:01] <BrentBXR^> but most of all, pics need 100 diff programmers
[20:10:16] <Roklobsta> no avrdude for pics?
[20:10:18] <BrentBXR^> inflex, good point
[20:10:25] <BrentBXR^> Roklobsta, hardware
[20:10:34] <inflex> BrentBXR^: which of course does give the core a longer life.
[20:10:38] <inflex> (design life)
[20:11:20] <inflex> but yes, PICs can certainly come with some amazing array of built-in options
[20:11:22] <BrentBXR^> yeah; thats the only reason I started using both
[20:11:38] <BrentBXR^> i mean it wouldnt hurt to have familys that provide more options then others
[20:12:00] <BrentBXR^> they have like 5 differnt chips that have 8k size but toher then that; those 5 are the same
[20:12:10] <BrentBXR^> its just confusing to me why there are 5
[20:12:41] <BrentBXR^> i mean yes, some might have a max of 20Mhz
[20:12:52] <BrentBXR^> some may be runnable at -2v
[20:13:15] <BrentBXR^> but thats the only thing that seems to change, speed, size, voltage
[20:13:22] <BrentBXR^> pin count
[20:13:42] <inflex> ja well, pincount can make a big diff... don't forget some of the bigger cores do offer more timers or multiple USARTs
[20:14:02] <inflex> but yes, overall the fundamentals stay quite consistent
[20:14:26] <BrentBXR^> im not saying its a bad thing or hating on avr, i cant because i use them 80% of the time
[20:14:32] <BrentBXR^> im just suggesting; it would be nice
[20:14:44] <BrentBXR^> why do we need two avrs that are 8k that do the same thing with a differnt name
[20:14:50] <BrentBXR^> just make it do somthing differnt
[20:15:03] <inflex> It's a tough call (for Atmel), offering a lot of optional diversity is nice, but at the same time it can end up a major pita
[20:15:31] <BrentBXR^> that and AVRs is not atmels bread and butter
[20:15:35] <inflex> OF course, sometimes, things like the mega88 vs tiny88 is more about using (possibly) dud cores
[20:15:46] <BrentBXR^> right now its touch
[20:16:03] <BrentBXR^> the xmegas are sweet; i just wish they stuck with ISP
[20:16:19] <BrentBXR^> i always liked how one programmer can program the whole line
[20:16:23] <inflex> true on that
[20:16:31] <BrentBXR^> set it apart from PICs in a major way
[20:16:32] <inflex> Any idea why they did move away from ISP?
[20:16:51] <BrentBXR^> i dont know why but i assume they wanted a slick programming and debugging in one interface
[20:16:52] <inflex> I can undrstand the need for TPI for the Tiny10/9/5/4 series, since there was a genuine pincount issue
[20:17:08] <BrentBXR^> though PDI seems super simple
[20:17:18] <BrentBXR^> im surprised there isnt more diy pdi programmers
[20:17:23] <BrentBXR^> its just UART with clk
[20:17:32] <inflex> so, a sync usart?
[20:17:38] <BrentBXR^> correct
[20:17:41] <BrentBXR^> which more AVRs handle
[20:17:48] <BrentBXR^> infact on the xplainboard
[20:17:54] <BrentBXR^> they use one of those at90usb chips
[20:17:58] <BrentBXR^> as the PDI interface
[20:18:02] <BrentBXR^> usb -> pdi
[20:18:24] <BrentBXR^> just just what? UART mode in asyc mode
[20:18:31] <BrentBXR^> master
[20:18:36] <BrentBXR^> if i remember correctly
[20:18:42] <BrentBXR^> that enables XCK
[20:18:46] <BrentBXR^> output for UART
[20:18:52] <BrentBXR^> then connect RX and TX together
[20:18:55] <BrentBXR^> you have pdi
[20:19:45] <BrentBXR^> beucase theres no real diy programmer yet
[20:19:52] <BrentBXR^> iv been meaning to start a pdi programmer project
[20:19:57] <BrentBXR^> modified USBASP
[20:20:03] <BrentBXR^> or somthing similure
[20:21:12] <BrentBXR^> which makes sence
[20:21:19] <BrentBXR^> debugwire is nothing but UART
[20:22:16] <Roklobsta> why not just buy a mkii-cn or dragon for xmega? they are cheap enough (well under $100US/AUD)
[20:22:44] <Roklobsta> i got a mkii-cn on ebay for $80 delivered. it's great.
[20:22:51] <BrentBXR^> I own multiple programmers
[20:22:58] <BrentBXR^> i want to make one because its not done yet
[20:23:13] <Roklobsta> pdi dor debug or just programming?
[20:23:22] <BrentBXR^> alot of people either a) dont have money (young or lazy) or b)dont want to spend money
[20:23:32] <BrentBXR^> both
[20:23:49] * inflex would have to buy two of them - but forunately for me Tom_itx's mkii has it already :D
[20:24:20] <BrentBXR^> its tom_itx's just a VUSB-MKII knock-off
[20:24:41] <BrentBXR^> knock-off as in clone
[20:25:00] <BrentBXR^> thats the only DIY pdi programmer i know of
[20:25:03] <Roklobsta> the ftdi232h has a jtag mode. i have got avrdude to work in spi mode with it. shouldn't be too hard ot get jtag debug to work on it.
[20:25:05] <inflex> yes, but it works well :)
[20:25:20] <inflex> (well enough that other people have cloned it)
[20:25:33] <BrentBXR^> lol clone of a clone = clone
[20:25:40] <BrentBXR^> so its still deans
[20:25:46] <BrentBXR^> abcmini
[20:25:59] <BrentBXR^> Roklobsta, yes; and AVR dude supports it
[20:26:03] <inflex> well, abc and tom works together on a lot of the development of the board
[20:26:14] <BrentBXR^> oh i c
[20:26:21] <BrentBXR^> its a great project
[20:26:25] * inflex remembers the weeks of chattering back/forth getting the programming working
[20:26:30] <BrentBXR^> :D
[20:27:03] <inflex> so, basically the only really 'cloned' aspect is the mkii interface, the rest is their own cooperative work
[20:27:18] <inflex> (programming interface that is, from avrdude/studio's perspective)
[20:28:14] <Roklobsta> sorry i meant get the mpsse jtag mode on the ftdichip to work in avrstudio
[20:29:07] <BrentBXR^> Roklobsta, I was thinking about that using a bus blaster
[20:29:42] <Roklobsta> here the mkii-cn very nice and cheap. works well in avr4/5
http://www.mcuzone.com/shop/?product-37.html
[20:29:47] <BrentBXR^> the bus blaster is powered by a FT232 but sports a CPLD so you can minipulate it as needed to mimic JTAGKEY and other propriatay jtag protocols
[20:29:54] <BrentBXR^> so it seems the perfect start
[20:31:26] <BrentBXR^> 480 yen?
[20:31:31] <BrentBXR^> 6 bucks?
[20:32:11] <Roklobsta> about USD$75
[20:32:40] <BrentBXR^> oh fuck that
[20:32:43] <Roklobsta> the 232h has a jtag fifo modem built in...
[20:32:48] <BrentBXR^> buy the offical MKII for like 40 on atmels store
[20:33:01] <Roklobsta> cheaper than a real mkii - ok WAS cheaper than a real mkii
[20:33:28] <BrentBXR^> i own an avrone which looking back i feel dumb
[20:33:39] <BrentBXR^> as I hardly use it lol
[20:34:12] <Roklobsta> no it's $299 at atmel
[20:34:46] <BrentBXR^> oh it supports debugging?
[20:34:49] <Roklobsta> wow $599 for that
[20:34:52] <Roklobsta> yes
[20:35:00] <BrentBXR^> i paid 450$
[20:35:02] <BrentBXR^> but yes
[20:35:05] <BrentBXR^> expensive
[20:35:33] <Roklobsta> I have a dragon here too and at $49 is fine for debugging avrs
[20:35:46] <BrentBXR^> exactly
[20:35:53] <Roklobsta> i notriced no speed or func diff so far between dragon and mkii
[20:35:57] <BrentBXR^> I also own a dragon which is what i use most of the time
[20:36:05] <BrentBXR^> so i feel dumb for buying the AVRone
[20:36:22] <pepsi_> isnt the dragon just size limited?
[20:36:30] <Tom_itx> not anymore
[20:36:35] <pepsi_> oh really
[20:36:49] <Roklobsta> nah they dropped the limitaing
[20:37:13] <Roklobsta> yeah the dragon has no problem getting to all 128k on the 1280
[20:37:35] <Roklobsta> dragon isn't in a nice anodised case
[20:38:10] <Roklobsta> mkiii is $199
[20:38:30] <Roklobsta> i think the more expensive ones work bettwer with the avr32s
[20:38:39] <Roklobsta> but for avr dragon is perfectly crompulent
[20:38:51] <Tom_itx> slow
[20:38:54] <BrentBXR^> i do know the dragon doesnt work on all chips
[20:39:06] <BrentBXR^> i think your right its in the 32 and xmega familys
[20:39:12] <BrentBXR^> if i remember correctly
[20:41:16] <BrentBXR^> need to work on the BP 6.2 firmware
[20:41:27] <BrentBXR^> also bb v4
[20:41:50] <BrentBXR^> which is jtag god
[20:42:00] <BrentBXR^> atleast thats the plan
[20:43:13] <Roklobsta> need to somehow be able to hijack the usbids and emulate a mkii for avrstudio debugging with things like the busblaster and ftdi mpsse-jtag
[20:43:25] <Roklobsta> i was told it's not possible
[20:43:47] <BrentBXR^> what do you mean hijack
[20:44:25] <BrentBXR^> i mean your not supposed to enumerate as a divice thats not yours
[20:44:33] <BrentBXR^> but they cant really stop u
[20:44:43] <Roklobsta> i mean be able to install a software emulator for the mkii that translates between the mkii api and the bus blaster. it seems avrstudios are hardwired t use certain debuggers.
[20:45:03] <pepsi_> Tom_itx, i need your address
[20:45:05] <pepsi_> so i can mail a check
[20:45:13] <BrentBXR^> that didnt stop dean
[20:45:20] <BrentBXR^> i think
[20:45:44] <BrentBXR^> inflex, doesnt deans mkII enumerate as a real one
[20:45:51] <BrentBXR^> tom_it's
[20:46:24] <Tom_itx> he was given a chunk to play with
[20:46:28] <BrentBXR^> inflex, Tom_itx that device can be used with AVRstudio right
[20:46:47] <BrentBXR^> what do u mean a chunk to plau with
[20:47:02] <inflex> haven't tried it myself BrentBXR^ (since I'm using avrdude), though Tom_itx himself might be able to answer.
[20:47:10] <Roklobsta> right but then his devcie will be pretending it's a mkii much like my mkii-cn
[20:47:28] <BrentBXR^> Roklobsta, isnt that what u want
[20:47:30] <Roklobsta> i mean use a software layer in the pc to emulate mkii and translate to bus balaster
[20:47:47] <Roklobsta> without needed to write mkii emulation in the bus blaster itself
[20:48:32] <BrentBXR^> ohh
[20:49:03] <Roklobsta> that way you could abstract the mkii interface and use any old jtag hardware you like
[20:50:33] <Roklobsta> and then end up using something like the bus blaster or an ftdi module (
http://www.glynstore.com/products/FTDI-UM232H-High%252dSpeed-USB-to-UART-Development-Module.html)
[20:50:43] <Roklobsta> in jtag mode
[20:52:03] <Roklobsta> so the mkii .dll api needs to be reverse engineered.
[20:53:13] <Roklobsta> the ftdi module is nice as i have already used it in spi mode with avrddue and as a 3.3v rs232 interface.
[20:53:24] <Roklobsta> not bad for $20
