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[00:17:07] <inflex> blearr.... 48'C in the shed today.... no wonder I felt like passing out
[00:23:45] <ziph> inflex: Sounds like you need to move here. :)
[00:34:51] <Casper> ziph: or here in canada!
[00:34:58] <Casper> today it's hot, with 2C
[00:38:31] <ziph> Nah, I could never live in a state of the USA.
[00:40:44] <ziph> ;)
[00:58:45] <inflex> ziph: I think Tasmania or NewZealand would be good
[00:59:52] <ziph> Tassie house prices will hopefully fall back to normal levels quicker than anywhere else too.
[01:00:16] <inflex> ziph: let's hope so - we almost bought one about 8 years ago.. but the prices shot up just as we started searching
[01:00:32] <inflex> everything went from ~$80,000 to $160~200k
[01:00:35] <ziph> (Because all the houses are owned by speculators in Sydney and Melbourne and they've been building 1.6 houses per head of population for the last decade)
[01:00:42] <ziph> Yeah.
[01:01:10] <ziph> Apparently you couldn't hire cars in Tasmania during the peak because of people from Sydney and Melbourne flying in to buy houses.
[02:20:31] <nofxx> How can I check if there's data available on the hw usart? Datasheet says return RXC0; but that doesnt change...
[02:47:53] <grummund> nofxx: how are you checking RXC, actually? (the datasheet may not be exactly correct)
[02:56:04] <amee2k> anyone tried the "open logic analyser" board from dp?
[02:58:11] <amee2k> nofxx: after receiving a byte, the receive complete flag will come up in the status register. this will cause an interrupt, if configured to do so, as well. the hardware uart doesn't have a FIFO if you mean that, it operates on byte-level only unless you implement buffering yourself
[03:00:23] <amee2k> you might want to look at hardware flow control for rs232 but it uses extra pins and from what i can see isn't very widespread anymore these days
[03:07:18] <nofxx> grummund, sorry dealy.... well, return RXC0; I assumed it was get set to 1
[03:07:34] <nofxx> amee2k, yup, just check if there's info so I can get the char
[03:07:55] <grummund> nofxx: if that's from the datasheet then the datasheet is wrong
[03:07:59] <amee2k> o.O
[03:08:12] <amee2k> that should always return 7 or something
[03:08:39] <grummund> nofxx: what's the name of the register that RXC0 is part of?
[03:09:24] <nofxx> sorry, I searching the datasheet.. maybe I got it wrong. grummund UCSR0A
[03:09:54] <amee2k> the bit macros by convention expand to the position of the relevant bit within the register
[03:10:04] <grummund> nofxx: RXC0 is just the bit position within UCSR0A
[03:10:29] <grummund> nofxx: try (UCSR0A & (1<<RXC0))
[03:10:30] <amee2k> to check a specific bit you'd use something like this: "UCSR0A & (1<<RXC0)"
[03:11:06] <nofxx> ahh...got it! sorry guys... sleepy
[03:11:17] <amee2k> more coffee? :)
[03:12:48] <amee2k> iirc the example for blocking uart read does it like "while(UCSR0A & (1<<RXC0)); return UDR0;"
[03:13:22] <nofxx> amee2k, hah better not...need to sleep !!
[03:13:29] <nofxx> amee2k, exactly...theres a macro also: loop_until_bit_is_set(UCSR0A, RXC0);
[03:14:22] <grummund> if the datasheet is just doing return RXC0; then probably the code is for Keil or IAR, not gcc.
[03:14:34] <nofxx> amee2k, how do you like yr coffee? italian (mocca), filter + hot water, expresso ? ;)
[03:14:55] <amee2k> hmm with caffeine in it? :)
[03:15:40] <amee2k> i like cappuccino, i suppose. but never really thought about it
[03:15:47] <nofxx> amee2k, hehe, I grow coffee, one of the best in Brazil ;)
[03:15:55] * inflex is usually an Americano +cream
[03:15:59] <nofxx> ok.. my father, but I'm helping it more lately
[03:15:59] <amee2k> cool
[03:16:05] <inflex> (so, espresso shot + water + cream )
[03:16:54] <inflex> If you shake up the cream so that it froths a bit it adds a bit of nice visual impact - very velvety to drink.
[03:17:26] <nofxx> italian , we call it "moca" here...
http://sedmikraska.bloguje.cz/img/pipo_italian_coffee_maker.png
[03:17:48] * amee2k should go to lectures now, but feels like crap :/
[03:18:10] <nofxx> grummund, I problably misread it. Thanks man
[03:18:45] <grummund> maybe, but watchout for mistakes anyway there are a few...
[04:50:06] <amee2k> this is kinda odd. is it normal that recommended board solder pads are *smaller* than the legs/pads on the device?
[04:51:02] <Tom_itx> no
[04:52:16] <Tom_itx> to get a proper 'wicking' form they need to be bigger
[04:58:35] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vYzY2OQ/footprint.png << this is the footprint recommendation on these white LEDs that i have
[04:58:42] <amee2k> then what am i interpreting wrong here?
[05:00:21] <amee2k> this recommendation would leave about 2/3rd of the thermal pad area unsoldered
[05:00:43] <amee2k> (10sqmm vs. almost 36sqmm)
[06:18:49] <amee2k> anyone know if that Open Logic Sniffer board from dp is any good?
[06:38:03] <Tom_itx> amee2k, they probably expect you to draw the heat to the bottom layer on the led using thermal vias
[06:38:56] <amee2k> Tom_itx: yeah, that is pretty much the only way to get rid of the heat anyway. i have no idea why they don't use a real package for these LEDs
[06:39:04] <Tom_itx> if the pad was the size of the land pattern it would cause bridges when reflowed
[06:39:17] <amee2k> but even if, why allocate a huge thermal pad, then only solder 1/3rd of it??
[06:39:30] <amee2k> hmm
[06:39:34] <Tom_itx> make it bigger if you don't like it
[06:40:13] <Tom_itx> i would certainly make it wider
[06:40:26] <amee2k> the test board i soldered them to is just 1x2" of copperclad with a groove cut into it (with the positive pad on one side, and the negative pad and thermal pad on the other side)
[06:40:44] <Tom_itx> and consider 2oz copper for it
[06:40:56] <amee2k> i didn't have any problems with bridging there and soldered the entire pad area
[06:41:24] <Tom_itx> some of the crap they come up with on some chips makes me wonder sometimes
[06:41:39] <Tom_itx> like a 2A driver in a 4mm qfn package
[06:41:40] <amee2k> i know what you mean >_<
[06:42:01] <Tom_itx> wtf are they smoking
[06:42:01] <amee2k> s/a 2A driver in // ;)
[06:43:43] <amee2k> i would think you need to be pretty desperate for board area to use QFN at all
[06:43:59] <amee2k> too bad lots of cool stuff only comes that way
[06:44:06] <Tom_itx> some parts only come in qfn
[06:44:23] <amee2k> which i think sucks pretty badly
[06:44:43] <amee2k> i'd gladly pay a few cent extra to have an SOIC or *QFP variant
[06:46:00] <amee2k> Tom_itx: hmm kinda reminds me of how my avrisp2 failed... ass tiny boost regulator in bga package (WTF???) that blew out
[06:46:57] <Tom_itx> alot of it is about what the next phone app can do
[06:47:13] <Tom_itx> umm... can it still make calls?
[06:47:19] <amee2k> i only realized because the board around that area was getting hot when i plug it in... then someone in here i think recommended it could be reg and to check it out
[06:47:40] <amee2k> Tom_itx: next generation phones are "honey i shrunk the last generation laptop"
[06:49:15] <amee2k> well, i know that kind of stuff has its place, but i don't make 500$ mobile phones and i'm not equipped for anything remotely like that kind of stuff
[06:49:58] <amee2k> no wonder lots of people use chips that date back to like the 80s
[06:53:07] <Tom_itx> brb
[06:56:38] <amee2k> Tom_itx == zlog o.O
[09:44:52] <amee2k> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?lang=de&site=de&keywords=
[09:45:11] <amee2k> does that page load properly for you guys? i keep getting a 500 Internal Server Error page
[09:45:59] <mrfrenzy> works fine atm
[09:46:07] <amee2k> o.O
[09:46:37] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vYzZjeQ/error.png << i keep getting this shit
[09:47:05] <amee2k> it worked for me like a week ago
[09:54:21] <OndraSter_> gasoline in CZE:
http://pctforum.tyden.cz/download/file.php?id=4410
[09:54:27] <OndraSter_> (can you open the link or does it want you to login)
[09:54:48] <mrfrenzy> Nemáte oprávn.ní ke sta.ení této p.ílohy.
[09:56:08] <OndraSter_> mrfrenzy, here then
[09:56:09] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/1tltX
[09:57:13] <amee2k> OndraSter_: on my way home this afternoon i noticed the gas prices are reaching 1.40EUR/l in austria
[09:57:21] <OndraSter_> wow
[09:57:23] <OndraSter_> that's crazy!
[09:57:27] <OndraSter_> and what is avg salary in austria?
[09:57:39] <amee2k> germany is ~20 cent above the austrian prices usually
[09:57:45] <amee2k> no idea >_>
[09:58:10] <mrfrenzy> it has been over 1.4 eur here for quite some time (SE)
[09:58:13] <amee2k> before i went on xmas holidays, it was like 1.35 and last year it was like 1.25
[09:58:50] <mrfrenzy> today I payed 1.67 EUR per litre
[09:58:53] <mrfrenzy> of diesel
[09:58:57] <OndraSter_> wow
[09:59:09] <amee2k> ouch
[09:59:19] <OndraSter_> well, 36 CZK per litre of gas/diesel (doesn't differ much)
[09:59:24] <OndraSter_> and avg salary is around 20k CZK
[09:59:27] <amee2k> well, diesel isn't any cheaper than gas around here anymore either
[09:59:30] <mrfrenzy> please convert to EUR OndraSter_ ;)
[09:59:43] <OndraSter_> 1.39 EUR
[09:59:45] <OndraSter_> is 36 CZK
[09:59:51] <Dubbear> 1.6 here in sweden for gas
[09:59:55] <mrfrenzy> aah just a little cheaper then
[09:59:56] <OndraSter_> and 20k CZK = 775 EUR
[10:00:05] <OndraSter_> avg salary :P
[10:00:06] <amee2k> diesel used to be like 20-30% lower than gas
[10:00:26] <mrfrenzy> yes, then they increased the diesel tax because it was "unfair"...
[10:00:32] <amee2k> last summer there were a few weeks where diesel was actually 10 cent *above* gas
[10:00:57] <mrfrenzy> it varies here, some days it's above and some days below
[10:01:12] <amee2k> mrfrenzy: diesel engine options are ridiculously expensive here to begin with
[10:01:18] <karlp> they're 1.51 eur/l here in iceland
[10:01:23] <karlp> disel about 5c more.
[10:01:40] <amee2k> so if they don't like it, they can suck my small wrinkly ... nevermind :X
[10:01:53] <karlp> sorry, diesel's about 1.60
[10:02:24] <mrfrenzy> biggest advantage is you use less of it
[10:02:43] <mrfrenzy> I can easily drive 1300km on a tank of diesel
[10:02:53] <amee2k> nice
[10:03:10] <mrfrenzy> in the summer it uses 5.1l/10km
[10:03:15] <mrfrenzy> Xsara Picasso HDI 2.0
[10:03:20] <karlp> heh, my patrol only gets about 14/100 :)
[10:03:31] <amee2k> my gasser does 700-800km tops on one tank
[10:04:36] <amee2k> 6-7l/100km highway, ~9 city. tank is 40 liters on paper, but it holds at least 50
[10:05:29] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vOGJjMw/gas-prices.jpg << this was from april 2011
[10:06:01] <OndraSter_> >> tank is 40 liters on paper, but it holds at least 50
[10:06:09] <OndraSter_> you tested it "until it ran out"? lol
[10:06:29] <amee2k> it didn't run out by 50 lol
[10:06:38] <amee2k> didn't have the balls to try any lower >_>
[10:06:56] <OndraSter_> :D
[10:07:36] <amee2k> i was like 120km from the border so i thought fuck it, i'll push before i pay the germal price
[10:07:44] <OndraSter_> I am off, bb
[10:08:37] <amee2k> german* even
[10:11:32] <Bushman> ave
[10:27:00] <OndraPhone> Heya
[10:27:08] <OndraPhone> Daddy's home
[10:27:24] <OndraPhone> I picked up Dragon finally
[10:27:32] <OndraPhone> Arrived today...
[10:27:59] <OndraPhone> It is smaller than I expected... By a lot lol
[10:28:19] <OndraPhone> I was expecting like A5 sized box at least
[10:28:26] <OndraPhone> It is A6
[10:29:55] <vectory> key pad sized
[10:29:56] <OndraPhone> I am off again, cya
[10:30:07] <vectory> bb
[13:29:13] <ben1066> Hm, I wonder how I could power an avr with a solar panel
[13:29:23] <ben1066> Charge a battery, then use that?
[13:29:47] <ben1066> but how would I ensure the correct voltage, I cant work out how I could use a SMPS as at times itll need buck, at others boost
[13:37:12] <ben1066> anyone?
[13:44:19] <Kevin`> ben1066: are you sure you need an smps? avrs have a wide enough input voltage range that you can usually run them directly from a battery
[13:45:44] <Kevin`> ben1066: if you do want to use a power supply, make the battery voltage high enough that it's always buck, or use sepic, or boost, buck, or a single converter that is switchable between the two modes
[14:03:28] <Tom_itx> ben1066, it's been done. use a solarpannel to charge a supercap
[14:07:18] <Casper> ben1066: buck-boost, cuk or sepic topology of smps
[14:08:47] <Casper> and in some case, you could just go boost or just buck, depending on your setup
[14:27:38] <eatyourguitar> I need some help reading and understanding this code
http://hanez.org/2011/12/04/attiny13-blink-example/
[14:28:24] <eatyourguitar> the part where it uses |= and also the &=
[14:28:50] <eatyourguitar> are these assigment statements or bitwise operators?
[14:28:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/c_bits/bits_index.php
[14:28:52] <Steffanx> Tom_itx you have a tutorial for this
[14:28:53] <Tom_itx> read that
[14:28:55] <Tom_itx> eatyourguitar
[14:29:43] <eatyourguitar> ok it makes sense
[14:41:44] <Kevin`> eatyourguitar: operators that look like x *=y are the equivalent of x = x * y
[14:44:13] <eatyourguitar> yeah it makes sense now. |= 0x01 to set a bit high
[14:44:45] <Tom_itx> use those macros
[14:44:51] <eatyourguitar> &=~ 0x01 to set low
[15:38:57] <dogmatic69> Hi all. I was trying to make a singleton and now getting compiler errors about atexit. anyone know why?
[15:54:16] <Casper> is the function supported under avr-gcc?
[16:03:57] <vectory> wouldnt make much sense, would it?
[16:08:19] <Casper> dunnot, don't know what you did, but I know that not everything is supported
[16:08:24] <Casper> specially if you use c++ functions
[16:28:45] <OndraSter_> AVR DRAGON
[16:28:48] <OndraSter_> FINALLY WORKING JTAG
[16:28:50] <OndraSter_> I <3 it
[16:29:26] <dogmatic69> Casper, was trying to make a singleton class in C++ and that started
[16:30:00] <dogmatic69> I just wanted a simple kind of buffer class that collected data and dumped it when full
[16:30:49] <Steffanx> OndraSter_ don't destroy it with 15V like i did
[16:30:54] <OndraSter_> haha
[16:30:58] <OndraSter_> RMA it then lol
[16:31:03] <OndraSter_> I don't have HV output connected
[16:31:07] <Steffanx> Impossible
[16:31:22] <OndraSter_> why impossible?
[16:31:28] <OndraSter_> how can they figure it out? :P
[16:31:57] <Steffanx> One of the controllers gets hot.. and i soldered wires too it :P
[16:32:21] <Steffanx> It can still upgrade the fw :)
[16:32:29] <OndraSter_> lol ok
[16:35:44] <OndraSter_> differences between avr dragon and jtag ice clone:
[16:35:48] <OndraSter_> a) it works
[16:35:59] <OndraSter_> b) you don't have to keep (dis)connecting it to make it connect to AVR Studio
[16:36:16] <OndraSter_> c) you don't measure 5V on input pinout that is connected to ADC (epic fail)
[16:37:20] <Steffanx> d) it's more expensive
[16:37:57] <OndraSter_> e) it works (I know, repeating the same thing, but it is quite requested feature)
[16:38:08] <OndraSter_> f) supports WAY more devices (all of them?)
[18:17:51] <inflex> Tom_itx: well, my GP submission went through... but using email as usual
[18:36:27] <Tom_itx> cool
[18:36:40] <Tom_itx> you think you'll get em before they shut down?
[20:41:43] <nofxx> OT: GPRS AT Commands: Anyone working with the SIM900... docs says "set DNS", protocol, access point and IP. So I'm trying opendns: \"IP\",\"OPENDNS.COM\",\"208.67.222.222\" . Never saw the use of "Access point" for DNS, so I'm checking stuff to figure out why the packet dont arrive
[21:11:10] <jadew> can someone explain to me what watchdog is?
[21:11:41] <jadew> and why do I see a call to wdt_reset() in the main loop of a simple V-USB based app?
[21:12:25] <Tom_itx> wdt is just that. if something locks up and the wdt times out it resets the chip
[21:12:50] <Tom_itx> they must have some reason to reset it
[21:12:55] <Tom_itx> iirc i disable it
[21:12:58] <Kevin`> jadew: a watchdog is a device that will reset the system when the software or hardware isn't working properly
[21:12:59] <jadew> ah, I see
[21:13:09] <jadew> makes sense
[21:13:35] <Kevin`> what reset means is to start the counter over at 0 so it doesn't trigger
[21:13:43] <jadew> yeah, I figured
[21:13:44] <Tom_itx> ctrl-alt-del :)
[21:13:46] <Kevin`> if reset doesn't get called for a while, it will
[21:30:56] <jadew> hmm, I just wrote a set of fuses now I can't write it anymore
[21:31:04] <jadew> how can I check if it's dead or not?
[21:31:21] <jadew> and most importantly, can I recover it?
[21:31:29] <Tom_itx> usb chip?
[21:31:33] <Valen> jadew: high voltage programmer
[21:31:35] <jadew> yeah
[21:31:38] <Tom_itx> why are you messin with fuses on a usb chip?
[21:31:55] <jadew> wait, what do you mean by USB chip?
[21:32:06] <Tom_itx> what avr is it?
[21:32:08] <jadew> I am making an attiny2313 to work with usb
[21:32:15] <Tom_itx> oh
[21:32:15] <jadew> using V-USB
[21:32:32] <Tom_itx> you need an external clock source now huh?
[21:32:58] <jadew> why?
[21:33:07] <Tom_itx> what fuses did you change?
[21:33:26] <jadew> not sure, I set the same fuses I found in another project
[21:33:29] <jadew> that seemed to work
[21:33:43] <jadew> however the fuses were for an t45
[21:33:47] <Tom_itx> you didn't check what you were changing?
[21:33:50] <jadew> I now realize they might not be the same
[21:33:56] <Tom_itx> shame on you
[21:33:57] <jadew> I did check
[21:34:07] <jadew> and it seemed ok
[21:34:14] <jadew> I suppose they mean something else on 2313
[21:34:41] <jadew> so how can I recover it?
[21:35:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[21:35:05] <Tom_itx> find out what you changed first
[21:35:15] <jadew> cool, thanks for the link
[21:36:35] <Tom_itx> Default Settings for Attiny2313 Fuses
[21:36:35] <Tom_itx> Efuse = 0xFF
[21:36:35] <Tom_itx> Hfuse = 0xDF
[21:36:35] <Tom_itx> Lfuse = 0x64
[21:36:50] <Tom_itx> Modified settings for usbtinyisp programmer (uses 12Mhz crystal)
[21:36:50] <Tom_itx> Efuse = 0xFF
[21:36:50] <Tom_itx> Hfuse = 0xDF
[21:36:50] <Tom_itx> Lfuse = 0xEF
[21:36:50] <jadew> didn't change the E fuse
[21:37:07] <jadew> this is not for the usbtiny
[21:37:09] <jadew> that one works
[21:37:10] <Tom_itx> i've made a bunch of those
[21:37:30] <Tom_itx> they're all quite similar i think
[21:37:45] <jadew> so I have SUT0, CKSEL3, 2, 1 on the low fuse and SPIEN on the high one
[21:38:05] <Tom_itx> so add a crystal to it and see if it works
[21:38:22] <jadew> 12Mhz?
[21:38:30] <jadew> or any value?
[21:38:36] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny9.jpg
[21:38:48] <Tom_itx> see that's why i added a crystal to the bottom of that
[21:38:54] <Tom_itx> (near the top)
[21:39:12] <jadew> let's see
[21:39:18] <Tom_itx> in case something happened
[21:39:37] <jadew> what might be wrong right now?
[21:39:48] <Tom_itx> you lost your clock source
[21:39:52] <Tom_itx> add a crystal to it
[21:39:56] <jadew> I see
[21:40:05] <Tom_itx> stick one on the xtal pins
[21:40:22] <Tom_itx> it'll likely work without caps but you may need them too
[21:42:18] <jadew> I have another one in the same condition, I wonder if it's fried or just messed up
[21:42:28] <Tom_itx> just messed up
[21:42:56] <jadew> that was the first one I tried with the paralel programmer, so I applied current in both ways, might be fried
[21:43:30] <jadew> any clock speed would do it? or should I match what I have in the programmer?
[21:43:41] <Tom_itx> come close
[21:44:29] <Kevin`> the cpu clock speed needs to be at least 4(?) times what the programmer data clock is
[21:44:36] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:44:54] <Tom_itx> anything less on my programmer and it wouldn't work
[21:45:10] <jadew> data clock?
[21:45:28] <jadew> how is that different than the normal clock?
[21:45:41] <Tom_itx> the clock from the programmer
[21:45:44] <jadew> ah
[21:45:45] <Kevin`> jadew: the speed the spi / isp interface is clocked at
[21:45:46] <jadew> got it
[21:45:47] <Tom_itx> that sends the data
[21:53:13] <jadew> still not answering
[21:57:13] <jadew> interrestingly enough, the other one is working with the crystal
[21:57:24] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:02:52] <jadew> well, recovered the old one
[22:02:59] <Tom_itx> cool
[22:03:20] <jadew> thanks a lot for the crystal info
[22:03:27] <Tom_itx> np
[22:03:34] <jadew> now I have to figure out if the other one is still alive
[22:03:53] <jadew> fried another one earlier by switching vcc with gnd when I tested it on USB
[22:05:29] <jadew> ok, this last one is unreachable, what's the deal with the high voltage programmer?
[22:05:54] <Tom_itx> you wire up a bunch of pins and hvpp it
[22:06:02] <Tom_itx> dragon supports it
[22:06:18] <jadew> what's dragon? programming software?
[22:07:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon1.jpg
[22:07:20] <Tom_itx> along with an old parport programmer
[22:07:34] <jadew> that looks like something I won't get anytime soon
[22:07:42] <Tom_itx> $50
[22:07:53] <jadew> not expensive, but I can't build it
[22:08:00] <Tom_itx> nope
[22:08:23] <jadew> I want to stay on the DIY track
[22:08:41] <Tom_itx> stop making silly mistakes
[22:09:01] <jadew> well, now I know
[22:09:04] <BrentBXR_> lol
[22:09:17] <jadew> however, it doesn't makes sense that I can't reach it anymore, since the other one worked
[22:09:41] <Tom_itx> hard to say what you did to it
[22:09:43] <jadew> is it possible that the code is preventing it from getting written?
[22:10:06] <Tom_itx> i dunno if that one has jtag or not but you may have enabled jtag
[22:11:20] <jadew> it doesn't
[22:11:34] <Kevin`> jtag is usually (always?) on different pins than isp, so enabling it doesn't hurt
[22:11:42] <Kevin`> well, except for io pins not working
[22:11:58] <jadew> I probably fried it, but I don't see how
[22:12:13] <jadew> I made sure not to switch gnd with vcc this time
[22:14:15] <Kevin`> if you put some resistors inline and don't use a power supply with too high a voltage difference (and even then, with limited current), you can make it basically impossible to fry
[22:15:23] <BrentBXR_> a high voltage programmer will most likely fix it
[22:15:31] <BrentBXR_> there are a few DIY ones out there
[22:15:37] <BrentBXR_> make specificly to fix fuses
[22:18:28] <BrentBXR_> example
http://www.instructables.com/id/AVR-Attiny-fusebit-doctor-HVSP/
[22:21:57] <jadew> that one looks good
[22:22:36] <BrentBXR_> looks simple
[22:22:43] <jadew> yeah
[22:24:34] <BrentBXR_> its not open source?
[22:24:37] <BrentBXR_> fuckin lame
[22:25:04] <BrentBXR_> oh nevermind
[22:25:10] <jadew> doesn't matter if it works
[22:25:12] <BrentBXR_> its bascom i think
[22:25:17] <jadew> and I'm sure you can dissasemble it
[22:25:18] <keenerd> This'll be fun. Looks like I'll get to hack out a reverse usb-serial adapter. (Plug in a usb keyboard and get half-duplex serial.) Should be easy enough with LUFA. :-)
[22:32:48] <BrentBXR_> Hm; perhaps ill make one of these avr fuse fixers. I would make a small USB board and have it perform the task via vertual serial port and not use an external 12v power source.
[22:33:03] <BrentBXR_> Then you could have more commands and true results, instead of a red or green led
[22:33:33] <BrentBXR_> although; I guess at that point you might as well buy a real HVSP programmer
[22:35:09] <BrentBXR_> I know; once the Bus Pirate PIC programmer comes out. I will use that circuit; then people can use there bus pirates to get back avrs
[22:35:23] <Tom_itx> i wonder what it costs to get a diy programmer working
[22:35:45] <BrentBXR_> what do you mean
[22:36:05] <Tom_itx> well from what i see, he's gone thru 3 chips trying so far
[22:36:31] <Tom_itx> and had to make a parport one to jump start the usb one i think
[22:36:36] <BrentBXR_> oh lol
[22:36:55] <BrentBXR_> i mean if you want to be serious about programming AVRs or any MCUs
[22:37:01] <BrentBXR_> its just silly not to purchase a real programmer
[22:37:13] <BrentBXR_> and 'real' can even be a cheap clone
[22:37:24] <BrentBXR_> but really you should get one with atleast debugger support
[22:38:12] <BrentBXR_> although i will admit i started with a DAPA cord
[22:38:23] <BrentBXR_> used it for months :3 never had any problems
[22:39:05] <Tom_itx> mine doesn't debug but it does quite a bit
[22:39:39] <Tom_itx> builtin recovery clock etc
[22:39:49] <BrentBXR_> :3
[22:40:02] <BrentBXR_> I do alot of multi process type stuff
[22:40:06] <Tom_itx> does isp pdi and tpi
[22:40:20] <BrentBXR_> so having debugging is super helpful otherwise its hard to tell where the app is when it stops working or whatever
[22:40:53] <BrentBXR_> but for apps that just do one thing over and over
[22:40:57] <BrentBXR_> not so important
[22:44:18] <jadew> I'm kinda used debugging stuff with out a debugger, that's not such a big issue
[22:44:36] <jadew> but being able to unbrick them would be nice
[22:45:05] <jadew> and I spent about $200, going towards 300 to build the programmer :P
[22:45:06] <BrentBXR_> it would be if you had 20 global variables to monitor
[22:45:11] <jadew> but that's just because I wanted new tools
[22:45:14] <jadew> and materials
[22:46:37] <BrentBXR_> atleast buy a 5$ usb programmer to get you started
[22:46:55] <BrentBXR_> more then likly you wont even build a programmer if you had a cheap one that worked
[22:46:56] <jadew> the programmer works
[22:47:07] <jadew> built a usb one already
[22:47:22] <jadew> now I was trying to buid something else
[22:47:24] <Tom_itx> this one works well:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[22:47:25] <BrentBXR_> am i the only person who has never bricked an AVR by setting fuses?
[22:47:40] <Tom_itx> can't say i have
[22:47:50] <BrentBXR_> looks nice
[22:47:58] <BrentBXR_> yeah its not tough
[22:47:59] <Kevin`> i've done it intentionally to test the high voltage stuff, does that count?
[22:48:20] <BrentBXR_> lol, no.
[22:48:31] <BrentBXR_> should know your HV stuff will work
[22:48:34] <BrentBXR_> without needing to test
[22:48:35] <BrentBXR_> :D
[22:48:54] <BrentBXR_> just look at your circuit and code, yep shits good. and start production like real men
[22:49:11] <BrentBXR_> im kidding of course
[22:49:37] <jadew> well, apparently this usb stuff requires some different fuses
[22:49:49] <BrentBXR_> alot of projects do
[22:49:56] <jadew> and I was cheap, didn't want to use an external oscilator
[22:49:58] <BrentBXR_> iv burnt fuses 1000s of times
[22:50:05] <jadew> but forgot to do the calibration from within the code
[22:50:08] <BrentBXR_> jadew
[22:50:16] <BrentBXR_> you have to have an external clock for usb
[22:50:20] <BrentBXR_> as far as i know
[22:50:25] <Tom_itx> i think so
[22:50:25] <BrentBXR_> you need a very stable 12Mhz
[22:50:33] <jadew> nah, works fine with out
[22:50:37] <jadew> got it working earlier
[22:50:41] <Kevin`> BrentBXR_: you can also tune the internal oscillator based on received usb frames
[22:50:44] <Tom_itx> reliably?
[22:50:53] <jadew> yep
[22:50:53] <BrentBXR_> that cant be stable though
[22:50:57] <BrentBXR_> the internal clock sucks
[22:50:59] <BrentBXR_> i never use it
[22:51:02] <Kevin`> BrentBXR_: it works pretty well.
[22:51:15] <BrentBXR_> i guess if its just a personal project
[22:51:23] <BrentBXR_> but still; not the best practice
[22:51:32] <Kevin`> I probably wouldn't use software usb at all for a production project
[22:51:50] <BrentBXR_> why not
[22:52:02] <BrentBXR_> if it saves on cost
[22:52:06] <BrentBXR_> seems fine to me
[22:52:20] <BrentBXR_> well its almost 12 i think ima go
[22:52:26] <BrentBXR_> tt you all later
[22:52:26] <Kevin`> there are other parts of the spec can be hard to meet strictly
[22:52:35] <jadew> see ya
[23:26:53] <jadew> I'm going to build another target board and I could use a few suggestions on what else to put on it:
http://imagebin.org/192996
[23:27:11] <jadew> so far, I decided to add a socket for crystals
[23:27:23] <jadew> 2 more sockets for capacitors, between gnd and vcc
[23:28:03] <jadew> and a diode bridge to make sure I don't reverse vcc with gnd and when I do to route the power towards a led that will let me know
[23:28:13] <vectory> you want the chrystal close to the chip, will that suffice?
[23:28:25] <jadew> I connect the gnd and vcc pins directly to the usb test board (that's when the reversal happens)
[23:29:06] <jadew> yeah, the crystal slot is going to be next to PA for the big IC
[23:30:08] <jadew> oh, and I think I'm going to add more gnd pins around it
[23:30:34] <jadew> what else could I use on that thing? (I'm using it both for burning and testing)
[23:33:06] <vectory> a reset switch or a switch to change to programming
[23:33:17] <jadew> the NC SW
[23:33:22] <vectory> brown out detector
[23:33:25] <jadew> sadly, I didn't find a NC button yet
[23:33:27] <vectory> shottky diodes
[23:33:47] <jadew> brown out detector?
[23:34:46] <vectory> jadew: i try to work around that too, with pullup/down resistor i think.
[23:35:41] <vectory> anyway, a rs232 conversion chip might be good too
[23:35:59] <jadew> what for?
[23:36:02] <vectory> just telling from last board i worked with
[23:36:07] <vectory> usart
[23:36:10] <vectory> or uart
[23:36:31] <jadew> hmm, I think I would build that on a differnt board and just interface it with this one, if I need it
[23:36:35] <jadew> like I do with the usb one
[23:36:43] <vectory> oh
