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[00:29:36] <BrentBXR> JOIN LEFT
[00:29:38] <BrentBXR> JOIN LEFT
[00:29:40] <BrentBXR> QUOT
[00:37:45] <Valen> duh its left join on foo
[03:55:50] <jadew> hey, is there any way to use a pin as both input and output
[03:56:57] <jadew> basically, what I want to do is set it to 1 but allow it to be changed to 0
[03:57:11] <jadew> like, set to from inside, set to 0 from outside
[03:59:20] <theBear> pullup
[03:59:43] <theBear> even the internal ones work for a lot of stuff
[04:00:37] <jadew> well, what I'm trying to do is set pb0 for example to 1 from the controller and then set it back to 0 from a LPT port, but I don't see that happening so easily
[04:03:23] <jadew> I wonder if it would work to switch the pin back to output, set it to the desired value and then switch back to input, but I'm sure that once I do that it'll turn to 0 no matter what
[04:25:31] <theBear> you can set the pullup, if you read a 0 turn it off having a weaker (maybe 30-50k) external pullup.... anything else doesn't really make sense... usually you would just turn on the pullup and 'listen' for a pulldown from lpt
[04:29:22] <jadew> yeah, but then it will remain in that state
[04:29:52] <jadew> thing about LPT is that if you set a pin to 0 or 1, you can still change it externally
[04:30:12] <jadew> so I'm trying to have something like this LPT -> 1 -> pin1
[04:30:36] <jadew> microcontroller: oh, we got data, process it and -> 0 -> pin1
[04:32:40] <grummund> use internal pullup
[04:34:00] <jadew> well, internal pullup would already be enabled, the LPT would just pull it down
[04:34:32] <jadew> so I don't see a way of pulling it back up
[04:35:09] <jadew> I'm probably looking at this the wrong way
[04:37:19] <grummund> depends what end result you're actually trying to achieve
[04:37:56] <jadew> well, I want to build something I can connect over LPT to an old PC and transfer the data to a new pc over usb
[04:38:23] <jadew> so I'm trying to have some sort of comunication like: lpt notifies the bytes were sent
[04:38:35] <jadew> controller notifies it's ready to receive more bytes
[04:39:18] <grummund> typically both ends would be open-collector output with resistor pullup
[04:40:00] <grummund> in fact how i2c does it
[04:40:18] <jadew> you lost me at open-collector output
[04:40:26] <jadew> (I'm new at this stuff)
[04:41:15] <grummund> open-collector is either output low or input with pullup high
[04:43:15] <jadew> so output 1 receive 0
[04:43:51] <grummund> http://www.mcc-us.com/Open-collectorFAQ.htm
[04:44:02] <jadew> thanks for the link, will check it out
[09:39:22] <moe3> hi
[09:40:53] <moe3> if i have a analog signal of max 3.7 V and i want to use the best ADC resolution. Do I have to use an ARef with 3,7 to get a resolution of 3,7/1024 with a 10bit ADC.
[10:09:04] <moe3> if i have a analog signal of max 3.7 V and i want to use the best ADC resolution. Do I have to use an ARef with 3,7 to get a resolution of 3,7/1024 with a 10bit ADC.
[10:09:08] <keenerd> moe3: I believe so.
[10:09:54] <moe3> really
[10:10:45] <moe3> but the thing i dont get is: when this is true, so can can go down to for example 1 V and get a resolution of 1/1024
[10:10:45] <moe3> and so on
[10:11:29] <keenerd> If your ARef is 1V, yes. But you can't keep on scaling down forever.
[10:12:43] <moe3> ok thx
[10:12:54] <moe3> but 3,7 is makeable?
[10:14:32] <keenerd> That is an odd voltage, would need an adjustable reference.
[10:15:25] <moe3> and if I set the AVR to 3,7 V will my res. reall be 3,6 mV ?
[10:15:31] <moe3> that s pretty much
[10:15:35] <moe3> good
[10:15:56] <moe3> sorry not AVR, i mean AVRef Pin
[10:16:09] <grummund> resolution yes. but note that's not the same as accuracy.
[10:16:54] <keenerd> You get accuracy with a decent voltage reference though.
[10:17:34] <grummund> yes indeed, just explaining the "can't keep on scaling down forever" principle
[10:17:49] <moe3> so should i do it or not
[10:18:41] <keenerd> Something like
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm4121.pdf maybe
[10:20:46] <moe3> no not with an extrnal
[10:21:28] <moe3> is it ok to set the aref to 3,7 and can i say then: my res. is 3,6mV and this is a good solution
[10:24:05] <amee2k> most of the time i either use the integrated 1.1V reference, or an external 2.5V ref
[10:25:07] <amee2k> and i only use AVcc as reference if the input signal is proportional to the supply by design (e.g. poti between the rails) or i can't avoid it for some reason
[10:26:49] <amee2k> the "classic" cheap-ass reference that would be useful for ADC use would be a TL431 imo
[10:27:42] <moe3> in a project i have made what i mentioned above. now i have to describe it. thats my problem now. not how i can do it better.
[10:29:09] <amee2k> what do you mean by "describe"? write a paper or appnote about the circuit?
[10:29:53] <moe3> ye
[10:29:55] <moe3> s
[10:29:57] <moe3> yes
[10:32:37] <amee2k> mmh the basis for pretty much any useful circuit description is usually a schematic diagram of some kind. unless you can expect your readers to be familiar with the topic in some way, supplementing it with a functional block diagram is probably a good idea
[10:33:38] <amee2k> i usually explain the purpose and basic operating principle on the block diagram, then present schematics of how each of the blocks is implemented in turn
[10:34:33] <amee2k> for each block, highlighting important details of the physical construction in the text and elaborating on my design decisions that lead to the final circuit
[10:35:40] <amee2k> if your goal is to explain the circuit's function and underlying theory (not giving a guide to rebuilding or servicing it) you might want to simplify the schematics in some parts
[10:36:59] <amee2k> e.g. by omitting some bypass capacitors, or drawing only one resistor in places where the actual circuit uses several in parallel, or a fixed resistor and a trimpot
[10:38:02] <amee2k> but if you do so, you should explicitly say that the schematics are simplified for clarity in the text somewhere, and giving the complete schem that corresponds to the board at the end for reference is probably a good idea too
[10:39:22] <amee2k> what may or may not be important is giving details on the types of signals that cross functional block boundaries (e.g. logic levels, polarity, framing, logical functions)
[10:40:34] <amee2k> hmmm did i forget anything?
[10:46:30] <vectory> i think the explaining is the hard part in that
[10:47:27] <amee2k> probably. i find it quite manageable by first giving an overview, then only concentrating on small functional blocks
[10:47:40] <jadew> yeah, I read somewhere that interrupts can't get interrupted by other interrupts, why is it that while reading stuff about V-USB, I get the idea that INT0 > INT1 > PCINT0
[10:47:49] <amee2k> i think most people think "just quickly drawing the schem, then getting on to the important stuff" will cut it
[10:47:57] <jadew> s/yeah, //
[10:49:14] <amee2k> unless the circuit's complexity and parts count is really trivial, you can rarely fit it all on one page and still keep it easily readable
[10:50:29] <amee2k> and when explaining theory is important, construction details are often more confusing than helpful. especially if they can be explained in the text just as well
[10:51:05] <amee2k> like "We need to use a 5W wirewound resistor for the shunt R209 because <insert maximum dissipation calculation here>"
[10:52:07] <amee2k> and never ever draw package in their actual shape with physically accurate pin placement >_<
[10:52:35] <jadew> so my question is, would a INT interrupt a PCINT?
[10:53:53] <amee2k> i don't think so. from what i remember you need to explicity use nested interrupts because they can lead to all kinds of funny side effects
[10:54:04] <specing> jadew: not if you disable interrupts...
[10:54:44] <jadew> hmm
[10:54:56] <amee2k> aww... my favourite example of how to mess up a schem for a perfectly good amplifier is off line :(
[10:56:11] <jadew> then what am I missinterpretting from this: "V-USB uses hardware interrupt INT0 by default because it must have the highest priority among all used interrupts. You can configure it to use another interrupt if you make sure that higher level interrupts are never enabled."
[11:00:07] <vectory> i recall having reading that (some) avrs have two levels of interupt priority
[11:00:38] <vectory> but i have not gotten any further than that
[11:02:20] <jadew> well, I guess I should hook d- and d+ on usb to int0 and int1 where available then
[11:02:32] <jadew> wish I knew exactly what happened there tho
[11:41:48] <vectory> amee2k: could you tell me, is it the dropoff voltage on a led, or the supply voltage that is factored with current to get the watts?
[11:42:57] <mrfrenzy> voltage drop across the led * current gives the power to led
[11:43:05] <mrfrenzy> supply voltage * current gives total power
[11:43:15] <mrfrenzy> voltage drop across resistor * Current gives resistor heating power
[11:43:59] <vectory> makes sense
[11:44:52] <amee2k> yeah... a led is not a linear load, but how to determine the power consumption doesn't change
[11:45:59] <amee2k> from what i've seen, efficiency among LED types seems to differ quite widely though, so how much of that power comes out as light and how much is wasted as heat is an entirely different matter
[11:46:36] <vectory> matters if you are into lighting
[11:47:18] <amee2k> or of you have lots of LEDs
[11:49:31] <vectory> ok, i just learned about voltage drop of resistors
[11:49:33] <mrfrenzy> if you have lots of LEDs I would say you are into lighting some way ;)
[11:50:04] <vectory> as opposed to experimenting with electronics
[11:50:08] <amee2k> or just have a LED fetish :)
[11:50:52] <vectory> like these guys here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgEYBqEIDEY
[11:51:27] <amee2k> nice display :)
[11:51:27] <OndraSter_> how much LEDs is there?
[11:51:32] <vectory> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWY_jnurgo0&feature=related
[11:51:47] <vectory> says it somewhere in the second vid
[11:51:55] <OndraSter_> 96x24?
[11:51:55] <OndraSter_> noobish
[11:51:55] <OndraSter_> I have 32x96 :)
[11:52:08] <OndraSter_> but... two colors, so it is 32x48 dualcolor
[11:52:16] <amee2k> downloading the hd version of the video now
[11:52:20] <amee2k> should be easy to count
[11:52:27] <OndraSter_> :D
[11:52:56] <amee2k> i've got a "LED wall" project like that on my ideas list too
[11:53:45] <amee2k> i wonder if there are LEDs with near-omnidirectional emission pattern
[11:56:11] * rue_bed hands amee2k some find sandpaper
[11:56:21] <rue_bed> find/fine
[11:57:40] <amee2k> LOL
[12:01:30] <amee2k> OndraSter_:
http://ompldr.org/vYzUycQ/matrix.jpg << you were right
[12:01:43] <OndraSter_> hehe
[12:01:46] <OndraSter_> you really counted it
[12:01:53] <OndraSter_> wasn't just easier to read the video's description?
[12:03:13] <amee2k> the description says it?
[12:03:24] <OndraSter_> ye
[12:03:27] <OndraSter_> the 2nd one
[12:03:35] <OndraSter_> :P
[12:03:37] <amee2k> not that counting was any difficult with a nice chessboard pattern like that
[12:03:44] <amee2k> oh, i didn't watch the second one
[12:06:27] <vectory> also the title in the first says 2304 as in 96*24
[12:06:45] <vectory> not that obvious though
[12:07:41] <amee2k> :P
[12:08:09] <amee2k> who reads titles these days anymore
[12:08:20] <OndraSter_> yeah, I thought it was just some random number
[12:08:27] <OndraSter_> but the other one had in description 96x24 :)
[12:15:06] <rue_bed> ah that too
[12:15:23] * rue_bed hands amee2k a pingpong ball with an led sized hole in it
[12:16:01] * Tom_itx paints circles around the led to make it look like an eyeball
[12:18:43] <amee2k> lol
[12:22:35] <rue_bed> I wonder how hard it is to make a broadcast amp for a channel 3/4 video modulator
[12:22:44] <rue_bed> hmm
[12:22:57] <rue_bed> wonder what freq that is, iirc the video is AM
[12:29:41] <rue_bed> 60-72Mhz
[12:30:24] <rue_bed> hmm what operates in that area
[12:30:40] <rue_bed> rc cars are 35ish
[12:31:15] <rue_bed> I suppose cb is close to that
[12:31:56] <rue_bed> so if I can make an amp for 72Mhz I should be happening
[12:33:28] <vectory> youtube is great, i dont need to generate a 1000Hz sine myself to listen to its pitch, no, theres a 5 minute video of it on youtube. rofl
[12:36:54] <OndraSter_> lol
[12:44:50] <amee2k> rue_bed: CB is 27MHz (11m)
[12:45:30] <amee2k> also, from what i remember about analog tv they're using vestigial sideband instead
[12:45:52] <amee2k> maybe you'd like to check out the ATV crowd
[12:52:37] <rue_house> damn
[12:53:15] <rue_house> I want to make it out of stuff I have
[12:53:33] <rue_house> I dont mind chewing on a transistor amp design for a while
[13:15:05] <amee2k> rue_bed: shortwave is so cramped when considering the width of a TV channel, i don't think you can make it as a mod
[13:15:19] <amee2k> or at least i have no idea whatsoever what to mod for it >_>
[13:21:50] <OndraSter_> can two projects within one workspace in AVR Studio 5 share some files?
[13:22:03] <OndraSter_> I'd love to share files with macros, EEPROM stuff, serial stuff etc
[13:22:16] <OndraSter_> you know, bugfix one, it auto recompiles in the other one too
[13:23:01] <OndraSter_> ahh
[13:23:02] <OndraSter_> got it
[13:23:03] <OndraSter_> :)
[13:36:01] <rue_house> amee2k, I just wanna transmitt ch3/4 about 50'
[13:42:04] <pircontrol> hello everyone. looking for some tip on finding datasheets? so many sites now its hard to know whats best
[13:42:24] <Tom_itx> digikey has data sheets for the parts they stock
[13:43:40] <pircontrol> cool. i use findchips so get those results. when looking for non active parts it takes a while to find the datasheet. alldatasheet and datasheetarchive and datasheetcatalog are top on google. what do you think about those sites?
[13:44:08] * amee2k <3 alldatasheet.com
[13:44:42] <amee2k> (note that it is ".com" and /not/ "sheets"... there are lots of scam sites about datasheets)
[13:45:58] <pircontrol> thanks. i've been looking at that site this afternoon. i found more results on datasheetarchive.com esp for old transistors. Just wanting to know if there is a complete site anywhere. I've a list of parts and its a slow process
[13:46:16] <pircontrol> datasheetcatalog has lots of data too
[13:48:10] <amee2k> since there is no requirement to file datasheets with a central authority (or even have any at all) i don't think such a thing as an exhaustive list for datasheets exists
[13:49:21] <OndraSter_> I have some parts that do not have datasheets :(
[13:49:28] <OndraSter_> findable on the interwebz
[13:49:55] <amee2k> my personal geek's wet dream would be an industry standard that requires all parts to be marked with micro-dots and type GUIDs and that type GUIDs must be registered with a datasheet at a central registry
[13:50:21] <pircontrol> i thought that was the case. seems crazy that no one could foresee that problem. I have a bunch of scans from datasheetarchive.com but i dont know if its the latest version of that datasheet. alldatasheet is good but frustrating since they remove characters from your search term until they find something
[13:50:22] <amee2k> if it means instant identification of any and all components i come across, i'd gladly shell out the money for a microdot reader
[13:50:24] <OndraSter_> yap, that would be cool
[13:51:17] <amee2k> pircontrol: yeah, when you do get hits always check what they really searched for. but their algorithm kinda makes sense i think
[13:52:00] <amee2k> too bad that counterintuitively the industry is making a lot of money by people /not/ using their components
[13:52:10] <amee2k> as much as they are making it off people using them >_<
[13:52:58] <pircontrol> someone recommended partminer but they charge $7 per datasheet. thats crazy
[13:53:28] <pircontrol> i think partminer used to be a good database until they realised they had no competition
[13:53:40] <amee2k> ...
[13:53:49] <amee2k> that is somewhere between ridiculous and offensive
[13:54:21] <amee2k> 90% of the parts i have ever handled would cost less than their datasheet
[13:54:40] <amee2k> if it is good, i'd go for it if they could make it, say 7USD/year
[13:55:20] <amee2k> but from my experience, if google and alldatasheet don't come up with anything, chances are slim anyway
[13:55:53] <amee2k> in some cases asking around has helped because there still is a chance that someone has a part much like what you're looking for before and knew what to search for
[13:55:59] <amee2k> but thats about it
[13:58:23] <pircontrol> I like that one of these search engines has a fulltext search so you can search the entire content of the pdf files. for example "blue led" 5mm - it makes it a bit simpler when you dont know the part number but know what you want
[13:58:51] <pircontrol> but keeping a data book library seems the only solution for now
[13:58:56] <amee2k> i that case i just look at my usual sources
[13:59:26] <amee2k> there are so many generic parts that it is pretty hard to find the exact one for sale that you dug up the datasheet somewhere
[13:59:42] <amee2k> so i'd rather look at what the suppliers have that i can use, and how much it costs
[14:00:37] <OndraSter_> at least the common stuff has universal datasheets
[14:00:43] <OndraSter_> such as SRAMs, ...
[14:00:49] <OndraSter_> and 74 series logic
[14:02:06] <amee2k> more or less anyway
[14:02:31] <amee2k> there are still some subtle differences but they are rarely important in most applications
[14:02:41] <pircontrol> i like findchips but octopart is cool for that too. i've been looking for datasheets all day and joined this chat to see if there is maybe a better solution.
[14:02:55] <OndraSter_> well, they have common pinout
[14:02:56] <karlp> amee2k: what do you mean by making money from people _not_ using their parts?
[14:03:04] <OndraSter_> they differ only in voltage and/or speeds mostly
[14:03:12] <OndraSter_> speed can be determined from -xx after the part name often
[14:04:30] <amee2k> karlp: you ever had to throw away something you couldn't fix because the part that has likely failed has some obscure type number that noone has ever heard of before?
[14:05:27] <amee2k> or had to buy new parts or more expensive ones because you couldn't find any useful documentation on the ones you had to use them?
[14:13:03] <amee2k> pircontrol: not really, i don't think there is a final solution to the whole datasheets dilemma yet
[14:17:12] <karlp> amee2k: I'm not sure if thats the same as a manufacturer making money from you not using their parts.
[14:17:20] <karlp> that's a product maker proble, not a chip maker problem.
[14:18:00] <amee2k> i still blame the chipmakers for treating datasheets like state secrets sometimes
[14:18:55] <amee2k> i don't think i fully understand how that one works either yet
[14:19:06] <amee2k> not sure i really want to either
[14:23:41] <pircontrol> if google books included data books 1970-1995 then a lot of the datasheet problem would be solved
[14:25:02] <amee2k> another quite disgusting practice is manufacturers assigning obscure type designations to otherwise more or less standard parts when they sell them to big shot customers
[14:28:02] <rue_house> pircontrol, just give me the part number
[14:31:17] <rue_house> if its a sony or hitachi chip, the ods are low of there even being a datasheet in existance
[14:37:58] <pircontrol> BTX41 from philips for example - i have 50 of these but there is no decent data online
[14:38:40] <pircontrol> i have a rack full of parts. that is just one example of hundreds
[14:39:25] <rue_bed> your sure thats the part num?
[14:39:31] <rue_bed> can you give me all the lines
[14:40:32] <pircontrol> yep - but i have tons of them. most 2sa, 2sb, 2sc parts - where are there datasheets for these on the internet
[14:40:46] <rue_bed> well those are tansistors
[14:40:59] <rue_bed> is the btx41 a chip or transistor
[14:41:13] <rue_bed> it could be a trasnsitor
[14:41:20] <rue_bed> dos't lok like a chip num
[14:41:21] <pircontrol> scr
[14:41:33] <rue_bed> aha! ok
[14:41:57] <pircontrol> but thats just one example. where do you get old transistor datasheets from?
[14:42:35] <rue_bed> if it comes down to it, my ecg cross ref
[14:44:14] <pircontrol> i see a lot of ecg and nte subs for 2s parts but lots of people reckon they're junk. low quality replacements and not worth it?
[14:44:39] <rue_house> doyou wan t to know how to use it?
[14:44:52] <rue_house> the nte ref != ecg ref
[14:45:05] <rue_house> hmm who made the btx41
[14:45:08] <rue_house> ge?
[14:46:12] <pircontrol> phi - so i presume philips
[14:46:30] <rue_house> hmm
[14:46:40] <rue_house> I might have a paper philips book
[14:46:50] <pircontrol> sorry i want the datasheets for slightly selfish reasons - i am getting rid of a load of spares i have so want to offer the datasheets with the parts
[14:48:41] <rue_house> whatever
[14:49:07] <rue_house> my ecg book dosn't have btx41 it goes from 33 to 68
[14:49:22] <rue_house> if you can take me a pic, I can usually tell from the font who made it
[14:56:38] <rue_house> not found it RCA, TI, or National datasheet books
[14:56:48] <rue_house> he left, fine.
[15:01:07] <pepsi_> why does HID usb crap suck so much? omg
[15:01:44] <pepsi_> i think its just hid.dll that sucks.. i want asynchronous IO with multiple HID devices, but hid.dll is all synchronous IO
[15:02:08] <pepsi_> IO control codes can do what i want, i think.. but omg
[19:47:37] <Tom_itx> inflex
[19:51:19] <inflex> hi
[19:51:20] <tobbor> Hello inflex
[19:52:28] <Tom_itx> you know of any smt ferrite beads for 3.3v supply
[19:54:18] <eatyourguitar> I don't think I have ever seen ferrite in smt
[19:54:57] <eatyourguitar> the real question is why you need it and what are your other options to reduce noise
[19:55:19] <Tom_itx> it's a recomended design
[19:55:27] <Tom_itx> on a PHY
[19:56:03] <eatyourguitar> ok yeah here they are
[19:56:04] <eatyourguitar> http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/EMI-RFI-Components/EMI-Filter-Beads-Chokes-Arrays/_/N-8w17i?Keyword=ferrite&FS=True
[19:56:18] <eatyourguitar> I learned something today
[19:56:26] <eatyourguitar> smt > everything
[19:56:32] <Tom_itx> yup
[19:56:42] <eatyourguitar> I should start soldering some smt
[20:00:53] <Tom_itx> eatyourguitar you been here long?
[20:00:58] <Tom_itx> i never noticed you
[20:11:18] <ziph> Tom_itx: What current for the ferrite beads?
[20:11:52] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/ARM/REPRAP/ksz8021rnl_8031rnl_ethernet.pdf
[20:11:55] <Tom_itx> there's the part
[20:12:03] <Tom_itx> minimal current
[20:13:02] <crazy_pete> hey all
[20:13:15] <crazy_pete> anybody interested in C++ development w/ AVR?
[20:13:53] <crazy_pete> or does anyone in here even DO C++ on the AVRs? :-)
[20:14:07] <ziph> Tom_itx: The series that MPZ2012S331AT belongs to is cheap from Mouser.
[20:14:14] <Casper> c++ on avr is said to be a bad idea
[20:14:37] <ziph> Tom_itx: And plentiful.
[20:14:56] <crazy_pete> why is that casper? (i take that as a "no" ;-)
[20:15:06] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:15:39] <Tom_itx> man that's huge
[20:15:49] <Tom_itx> anything suitable in a 0603 or so
[20:16:05] <ziph> Yeap, let me find the ones I use for IO
[20:16:37] <crazy_pete> the reason i am asking is i am interested in implementing some of the C++ 0x11 features in AVR
[20:16:57] <crazy_pete> and i am wondering if anyone else in here has looked at that
[20:17:22] <Casper> crazy_pete: memory space restriction has been named many times, so did the flash size
[20:17:51] <ziph> Weird.
[20:18:08] <ziph> I have the board in front of me with 0603's but the schematic says they're those parts.
[20:18:48] <Tom_itx> they show a 2012 package
[20:19:03] <crazy_pete> yeah i know, my only problem with that is that when i write C++ programs for AVR they are usually a few bytes smaller than the same C program :-)
[20:19:30] <Tom_itx> ahh the data sheet shows a 0603 part
[20:19:48] <Tom_itx> MPZ0603S331AT
[20:19:50] <Tom_itx> or such
[20:20:22] <Tom_itx> no that's not a good pn
[20:20:42] <ziph> No, I think the 2012 is metric.
[20:20:52] <crazy_pete> but yeah you need to kind of know what you are doing to do embedded dev in C++ (imho you need to be able to understand the assembler output of the compiler to understand the effect of C / C++ constructs on code size)
[20:21:46] <ziph> MPZ1608S601A is the other one I use
[20:22:56] <ziph> The MPZ1608S601A has higher R at the peak (which is about 140MHz).
[20:23:30] <ziph> The MPZ2012S331AT is 300Ohm but the DC R is smaller.
[20:23:50] <ziph> From memory the MPZ2012S331AT has one of the smallest DC R's I could find for a good price.
[20:27:01] <Tom_itx> wtf is 0603 in metric then?
[20:28:26] <ziph> 1608
[20:28:42] <ziph> So the first one is 0805, and the second 0603.
[20:29:19] <Tom_itx> i bet either would fit a 0603 pad
[20:29:29] <ziph> The retard that decided to have metric and imperial both packed into numbers like that really needs a beating.
[20:29:51] <ziph> If you dig up the series datasheet you should be able to find variants of those two too.
[20:30:06] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:30:55] <ziph> You might be able to get other specs better, I was going for high R at 140MHz to stop very high power VHF getting in.
[20:31:28] <ziph> Hence the fairly high 600Ohm.
[20:41:19] <pepsi_> Tom_itx, i need someone in illinois
[20:41:21] <pepsi_> that needs a job
[20:41:57] * pepsi_ drinks a chocolate shake
[20:42:49] <Tom_itx> that was you a few months ago
[20:43:17] <pepsi_> indeed
[20:51:26] <crazy_pete> i might move to illinois for a job ;-)
[20:54:36] <crazy_pete> where in illinois, pepsi_ ?
[20:54:45] <crazy_pete> (curious really)
[20:54:55] <pepsi_> nw chicago suburbs
[20:56:03] <ziph> So it's Illinois, Illinois?
[20:57:22] <crazy_pete> I actually used to do some consulting for United Airlines and lived in that area , pepsi_ \
[20:58:13] <crazy_pete> it is kind of nice because you can get a flight to just about anywhere from at least one of the 2 airports in Chicago.
[20:58:18] <pepsi_> we're looking for firmware engineers, some rf knowledge would be helpful also
[20:58:32] <pepsi_> for RFiD crap
[20:59:44] <crazy_pete> is it your company or are you an employee or recruiter (if you dont mind my asking)
[21:00:12] <Tom_itx> pepsi_ is just pepsi_
[21:00:30] <pepsi_> im just an employee
[21:00:39] <crazy_pete> oh
[21:01:24] <pepsi_> there's probably an ad somewhere
[21:02:19] <pepsi_> http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?job_did=J8E01Y6QL10SG6YXG04
[21:02:23] <crazy_pete> that was actually my next question
[21:03:25] <crazy_pete> hmm i know a few firmware engineers with microchip experience
[21:03:33] <crazy_pete> i will pass that on
[21:04:48] <crazy_pete> i am curious what does visual studio (isn't that the MS Windows dev kit) have to do with embedded programming?
[21:04:52] <pepsi_> heh
[21:05:23] <pepsi_> not much... but being versatile is good
[21:05:49] <pepsi_> we're probably going to be moving to an ARM some day, and we have a DLL that we support
[21:06:08] <crazy_pete> i like arms, the assembly language reminds me of AVR ;-)
[21:06:40] <pepsi_> just.. being able to write a quick program for the computer when necessary is a very good thing.. in whatever language floats your boat
[21:06:57] <pepsi_> you know
[21:07:00] <crazy_pete> i probably wouldn't be at all qualified (i got fired from my last job because i have never used, much less programmed, MS Windows, not since 1995)
[21:07:22] <pepsi_> none of the things in that ad are real requirements
[21:07:42] <crazy_pete> weirdest damn thing i have ever experienced, they give me this huge test on Unix and shell scripting and C++, tell me i have passed in flying colours
[21:08:10] <crazy_pete> then first thing they sit me down and tell me "Here's your window's machine, we are entirely an MS Windows/C shop"
[21:08:39] <crazy_pete> "Uh i am terribly sorry, i don't even know windows as a USER, much less as a programmer, while i apologise for the trouble i have caused, i think i had better be going"
[21:09:54] <crazy_pete> "Oh no, stay, you can pick up windows as you go" 2 weeks later they fired me for non productivity ;-) Hilariously, to ENCOURAGE productivity, this company had no outside internet connection for the employees
[21:10:06] <pepsi_> heh
[21:10:10] <pepsi_> does that work?
[21:10:30] <crazy_pete> not really :-)
[21:10:32] <pepsi_> .. i imagine many wheels being reinvented
[21:10:49] <crazy_pete> it was probably the worst company i have ever seen
[21:11:01] <pepsi_> i never did windows programming before, really
[21:11:14] <pepsi_> .. there's a windows/GUI programmer guy for that crap
[21:11:34] <pepsi_> when i need a windows app, i use AutoIt
[21:11:38] <pepsi_> i love AutoIt
[21:12:23] <crazy_pete> what is autoit?
[21:12:32] <pepsi_> just some scripting language for windows
[21:12:37] <crazy_pete> (if we are not getting too OT) ;-)
[21:12:38] <pepsi_> but you can make DLL calls and crap
[21:13:00] <crazy_pete> but you do use microchip atm ? (The people i am going to pass this to are Microchip fanatics)
[21:13:13] <pepsi_> ya, pic18f
[21:13:18] <crazy_pete> (well actually i already sent them the URL)
[21:14:49] <crazy_pete> yeah that's their baby
[21:14:55] <crazy_pete> pic18 something anyway
[21:15:36] <crazy_pete> microchip makes really good hardware
[21:15:43] <crazy_pete> and terrible software
[21:16:05] <pepsi_> ya, like i said we're probably going to be moving to ARM some day.. who knows how long that will take
[21:16:36] <pepsi_> but everything is pic18, and we're swamped with supporting what we already have
[21:16:44] <pepsi_> its hard to find time to develop anything new
[21:16:53] <ziph> The Cortex M's aren't any harder to use than a PIC, hardware wise.
[21:17:26] <crazy_pete> yep thats the old lament, i can show you literature that is 1000 years old that says what you just said, pepsi_ (seriously)
[21:18:12] <crazy_pete> (Chaucer, "The Canterbury Tales" --- "Alas the lyfe so short, yet the kraft so long to lyrn"
[21:19:24] <crazy_pete> i don't know (honestly) but i have heard that microchips stuff does the cleanest DSP
[21:19:48] <pepsi_> the pic18f is crap
[21:19:51] <pepsi_> all around
[21:19:58] <pepsi_> there's nothing good about it
[21:20:12] <ziph> DSP's do the best DSP.
[21:21:06] <crazy_pete> really pepsi_ ? HAHAHA if my friend hires on with you.... there's gonna be a fight! :-)
[21:21:41] <pepsi_> that's fine
[21:22:40] <crazy_pete> why do you say that may i ask? I really don't know anything about them the only pic i have programmed is the PIC32 and that's a 32 bit MIPS chip
[21:23:43] <pepsi_> pic32 is completely different..
[21:24:03] <crazy_pete> exactly
[21:24:23] <pepsi_> pic18 has a /4 program clock, ONE register, and memory is banked 256 bytes at a time
[21:24:42] <crazy_pete> so i really don't know anything about them except that Microchip is a PITA when it comes to their dev environment
[21:24:42] <pepsi_> a shallow hardware stack.. only 2 real interrupt vectors
[21:24:45] <pepsi_> its just crap
[21:24:54] <crazy_pete> wow i had no idea they were so lame
[21:25:05] <timemage> pepsi_, yeah, but what you *really* think about it? =)
[21:25:18] <crazy_pete> but i know he has had to ask my help about memory banking issues
[21:25:20] <pepsi_> i think its the worst architecture ever
[21:26:14] <crazy_pete> (getting a little back on topic) it is very interesting to compare the open development philosophy of atmel versus microchips "Well even if GCC is GPL, we are still going to make it proprietary"
[21:26:50] <pepsi_> i dont care about the development enivornment so much.. MPLAB does kinda suck.. but i dont care.. once i get into a routine for a build/test cycle, it doesnt matter to me
[21:27:15] <crazy_pete> i have talked to a lot of people who prefer Atmel simply because the tools are so open and easy to hack.
[21:27:33] <pepsi_> meh
[21:28:05] <crazy_pete> For example there is no way to get C++ running on any microchip platform of which i am aware, with Atmel it is just a matter of cross compiling gcc for the avr ;-)
[21:28:33] <pepsi_> wasnt someone just talking about c++ for microcontrollers here?
[21:28:43] <pepsi_> you really need to watch the asm output closely if you do that
[21:28:57] <crazy_pete> yeah that was me
[21:29:23] <crazy_pete> although some of the output for avr from gcc (regardless of whether you use gcc or g++) is pretty bloated
[21:29:57] <crazy_pete> (e.g. it will push and pop registers it doesnt use on function entry/exit)
[21:30:32] <crazy_pete> hehe i wish i could find more people doing C++ on avr i bet i could learn a lot
[21:31:05] <pepsi_> oh.. so the pic18's status flags and such dont work very well for doing multibyte arithmetic
[21:31:28] <pepsi_> you have to fixup the flags sometimes, or set up a certain way before doing stuff like that
[21:32:02] <pepsi_> its like they didnt think about that stuff until they finished the basic architecture
[21:32:05] <pepsi_> and then it was too late
[21:32:41] <pepsi_> .. but i guess the older pics were better suited to a simple architecture like that
[21:32:59] <pepsi_> when there were only a couple ram banks, and multibyte arithmetic was rare
[21:34:30] <pepsi_> anyhoo.. ima fiddle with this bootloader app and hit the hay
[21:34:36] <crazy_pete> i have done both desktop and firmware development and it is interesting to see the mindset differences between the 2
[21:34:43] <crazy_pete> have fun pepsi_ :-)
[21:36:14] <pepsi_> if you or anyone you talk to is interested in the job, let me know, cause im sure i can push things through better than just submitting it through careerbuilder
[21:39:42] <crazy_pete> well i don't think i would be qualified honestly but i did pass the info on and i will let you know if they are interested
[21:40:16] <crazy_pete> the initial reaction i just got was 'man i dont wanna live in chicago' but you never know
[21:40:36] <pepsi_> :P
[21:40:49] <pepsi_> its 20 miles NW of chicago
[21:42:00] <crazy_pete> actually i would rather live in Chi than in the burbs but thats me
[21:42:10] <crazy_pete> may i im you my email ?
[21:42:18] <crazy_pete> i would rather not blast it all over the channel ;-)
[21:42:38] * Valen cools off the spam bots
[21:42:45] <pepsi_> ya
