#avr | Logs for 2012-01-07

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[00:32:51] <rue_house> theBear, if I give you an ssh session to the large robotic arm in the shop would you use it to assemble another workstation?
[00:33:23] <rue_house> there's no camera set up, but if you feel around you might be abel to find one to plug into the computer controlling the arm
[00:33:48] <rue_house> need it by morning
[00:33:55] <rue_house> 11.5 hours
[00:34:16] * rue_house falls asleep on his keyboard
[03:59:52] <Bushman> rue_house: that's not how you fall asleep on a keyboard!
[04:00:16] <Bushman> "'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''(...)"
[04:00:22] <Bushman> that's how you do it
[04:00:42] <Bushman> also, can i have the ssh to that robo-arm? :P
[04:01:33] * _abc_ hands Bushman the pin to the house automation system and points to the plant watering control
[04:03:51] <_abc_> You did say you wanted rice paddies, right? >:~
[04:03:54] * Bushman surveys the system for coffee machine
[04:04:47] <Bushman> what's a paddie?
[04:05:15] <Bushman> translate google says it's something made of rice
[04:05:55] <Bushman> ok, wiki was more helpfull
[04:06:42] <Bushman> _abc_: for me it might aswell be a paddy field
[04:07:03] <Bushman> i'd like to have ANY field in the first place
[04:07:06] <_abc_> Bushman: rice grows in small ponds with water in them in a certain phase
[04:07:09] <_abc_> Bushman: like reeds
[04:07:29] <_abc_> You can turn someone's house into that if you get control of the plant watering system via house automation
[04:07:29] <Bushman> maybe i would be able to keep my bonsais there
[04:07:58] <_abc_> Heh bonsais
[04:08:22] <_abc_> Forget Ikebana stuff, go with folded paper stuff instead.
[04:09:24] <Bushman> it's not the same as 生花
[04:09:31] <_abc_> ?!
[04:09:39] <_abc_> Origami != Ikebana
[04:09:45] <_abc_> Ikebana != Bonsai
[04:09:53] <_abc_> Bonsai != Origami
[04:10:00] <Bushman> -_-'
[04:10:03] <_abc_> heh
[04:10:15] <_abc_> Japanesu learnu quicku
[04:10:15] <Bushman> so why would you tell me to forget about ikebana?
[04:10:28] <_abc_> Bonsai trees are used in some Ikebana setups
[04:10:37] <_abc_> And plants in general
[04:10:41] <Bushman> so?
[04:10:45] <_abc_> Sigh
[04:10:48] <_abc_> Forget it.
[04:10:56] <Bushman> kusamono are used in some bonsai setups
[04:11:09] <_abc_> Heh
[04:11:31] <Bushman> anyway
[04:12:09] <Valen> touch frosty _abc_?
[04:12:10] <Bushman> living in cities like mine, in a building like where i live is not an easy life for someone wanting to grow bonsais
[04:12:30] <_abc_> Bushman: All concrete?
[04:12:33] <_abc_> Valen: ?
[04:12:38] <Bushman> no garden means all the space i have is my balcony
[04:12:45] <Bushman> _abc_: mostly
[04:12:46] <Valen> your over in norway or whatsit now?
[04:12:55] <Valen> land of sun and beaches?
[04:12:59] <_abc_> Valen: no, .ro
[04:13:08] <_abc_> Valen: same latitude North as Ottawa...
[04:13:12] <_abc_> Wind is howling outside
[04:13:22] <Valen> oh your not abcminiuser in disguise then
[04:13:26] <_abc_> no
[04:13:33] <Valen> well that would explain it
[04:14:14] <Bushman> and i'm not a G.W. Bush in disguise. just saying.
[04:14:24] <_abc_> Valen: abcminiuser is on a trip? I talked to him here yesterday or so
[04:14:44] <Valen> left melbourne headed for atmel
[04:14:55] <_abc_> Umm Atmel is in USA?
[04:15:01] <Valen> nope
[04:15:02] <_abc_> Last time I checked.
[04:15:16] <_abc_> Atmel Europe?
[04:15:28] <Valen> i believe head office is norway
[04:15:42] <_abc_> You need help :)
[04:15:59] <_abc_> San Jose, CA, USA
[04:16:07] <Valen> ahhtheir design office is there
[04:16:12] <Valen> In 1996, a design office was started in Trondheim, Norway, to work on the AVR series of products.
[04:16:15] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmel
[04:16:23] <Valen> for avr
[04:16:44] <_abc_> Well avr is a Norwegian design sort of
[04:16:52] <_abc_> Well Scandinavian
[04:17:00] <Valen> thats where abcminiuser is headed anyway
[04:17:54] <_abc_> Trondheim in January?
[04:17:59] <_abc_> Maybe he died already
[04:18:35] <_abc_> You don't even get snow in Melbourne.
[04:18:43] <_abc_> http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/01271.html
[04:18:56] <Valen> he did an internship there a while ago
[04:19:03] <_abc_> ah
[05:37:43] <OndraSter_> morning
[05:37:47] <OndraSter_> so, if you take a look at this
[05:37:47] <OndraSter_> http://amtek.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/jtag_sch.png
[05:37:51] <OndraSter_> JTAG ICE clone
[05:38:10] <OndraSter_> isn't weird the fact that the ADC pin that is supposed to be there for measuring target voltage is tied to Vcc?
[05:43:01] <Steffanx> A little maybe
[06:10:36] <OndraSter_> who was the guy that told me that mariujana is legal in CZE?
[06:11:08] <OndraSter_> just reading: "on blabla street was caught 17 yo guy and they found 0.1g of mariujana at him. He can be taken to jail for 3 years"
[06:11:19] <OndraSter_> nvm, it is slovakia lol
[06:11:56] <OndraSter_> czech website, but it was from SVK
[06:19:24] <Steffanx> :)
[06:19:37] <Steffanx> It's sort of legal here too OndraSter_ :0
[06:20:55] <specing> Everything is legal until you get caught
[06:21:08] <OndraSter_> :D
[06:21:47] <Steffanx> Im from the netherlands specing .. the country for stuff like that
[09:43:25] <simon> when programing avrs with an isp programmer(usbasp comptible) should the avr be externaly powerd or should the power from the programmer be enought?
[09:43:51] <Tom_itx> if the programmer supplies power, it should be enough
[09:43:57] <Tom_itx> don't use both
[09:45:56] <ziph> Programmers will either have nothing connected to the power pin, have power supplied into the power in, or just sense the voltage on the power pin so that they can ensure the I/O lines are the same voltage.
[09:46:05] <ziph> Some of them have DIP/software settings to switch between those three possibilities.
[09:47:29] <simon> ok, then i will continue to try with just the programmer powering the avr, thanks :)
[09:48:28] <amee2k> my avrisp2 can't supply power but it does sense the voltage on the power pin because the ready LED starts blinking when i turn off power to the target system
[10:00:05] <ziph> Yeah, I prefer ones that just sense power.
[10:00:16] <simon> messured 4.34 Volt on vcc from my programmer, instead of expected 5 Volt, could this stop the programming from working or should the avr handle this voltage as well?
[10:00:33] <ziph> No ISP programmer really should be feeding power into a board.
[10:00:53] <ziph> simon: You AVR should work at that, check the datasheet to be sure.
[10:01:36] <ziph> simon: However if it really is meant to be 5V that might indicate some other problem. I'd put an oscilloscope on it to check it is stable at that voltage if you have one.
[10:04:31] <simon> ziph: its a Tiny 2313 so it should be ok with that voltage under "normal circumstances" just thought that it might have been under requirements during programming
[10:05:29] <simon> dont have any ocilloscope, but the voltage seems stable with a multimeter
[10:06:58] <Kevin`> a multimeter isn't fast enough to tell if it's stable
[10:07:13] <Kevin`> unless you have one that you can measure small ac voltages with
[10:10:51] <simon> ok, the i guess i have no idea about how stable the vcc is
[10:11:56] <ziph> Check your programmers manual and see if you can disable it supplying power, then feed a known good 5V in. (That is assuming you're actually having a problem.)
[10:29:44] <rue_house> avr wont program?
[10:29:50] <rue_house> did you change the fuses?
[10:30:00] <rue_house> is it a 2313?
[10:32:05] <simon> rue_house: havent changed any fuses as far as i know, the avr is several years old and i dont remember what i did with it last time, but i have tested with 2 2313 with no success programming either (avrdude dont find any chip)
[10:32:24] <rue_house> aha
[10:32:29] <rue_house> 902313 or tiny2313?
[10:32:42] <simon> tiny2313
[10:33:05] <rue_house> cause, iirc the 902313 has NO internal clock circuit
[10:33:21] <simon> going to resolder the connection on the programmer and se if it make anything better
[10:33:30] <rue_house> what programmer is it?
[10:34:38] <simon> its a usnoobie with avrasp firmware
[10:36:11] <simon> so i built the kit myself and might have done something wrong, but the kit itself works fine programming, just cant get it to program a new avr
[10:36:43] <rue_house> well ok
[10:36:47] <rue_house> have a webpage for that one?
[10:36:54] <rue_house> do you have a picture of your build?
[10:38:57] <simon> http://www.frank-zhao.com/cache/usnoobie_usbasp.php
[10:39:12] <simon> will take some picture after resoldering
[10:39:46] <rue_house> wait
[10:39:53] <rue_house> you have to program your programmer
[10:40:33] <Kevin`> yeah, that's worth comment. what programmer did you use for the programmer? try that on the attiny
[10:40:49] <rue_house> http://www.frank-zhao.com/cache/www.obdev.at/products/vusb/usbasploader.html
[10:40:51] <rue_house> they say to use that one
[10:41:11] <rue_house> they say your chip comes with a bootloader in it, but not hte software it needs to program things
[10:42:19] <rue_house> I have to go now, if I'm lucky I'll be back in a half hour
[10:42:34] <simon> a have programed the programmer before with a parport programmer, and i was able to flash the firmware for the programmer with the built in bootloader
[10:42:50] <simon> s/a/i/
[10:44:10] <simon> but i dont have a parport anylonger so i cant use that programmer
[11:14:00] <simon> pictures of the setup: http://imgur.com/vj6ZA and http://imgur.com/JNMJN
[11:22:20] <rue_house> did you remeber to flash the software and set the fuses?
[11:22:27] <rue_house> maybe you left jtag on and you have disabled ports
[11:24:20] <amee2k> is that some kind of ghettouino on that breadboard? >_>
[11:25:18] <rue_house> its a http://www.frank-zhao.com/cache/usnoobie_usbasp.php
[11:25:52] <amee2k> lol
[11:25:57] <rue_house> thats what I thoguht
[11:26:06] <rue_house> but I suspect it should still work
[11:26:37] <simon> rue_house: the usnoobie have the bootloader and is possible to program new firmware to it, and the usbasp firmware is programmed to the chip, the programmer is detected as a avrasp by avrdude
[11:26:55] <rue_house> ok
[11:27:03] <rue_house> ok thats a good peice of the puzzel then
[11:27:31] <rue_house> ok, I know there is a pic of it right there, but please list us the programmer -> avr connections you made
[11:28:30] <rue_house> why IS miso connected to gnd?
[11:29:13] <Tom_itx> that's a no no
[11:30:03] <simon> rue_house: miso isnt connected to gnd
[11:30:09] <rue_house> ok
[11:30:37] <simon> writing down the connections atm.
[11:35:01] <simon> connections: http://pastebin.com/EkXMBzQc
[11:35:06] <rue_house> I cant tell but it looks like your missing a ground and didn't skip a pin on the programmer
[11:36:17] <rue_house> fromt eh corner of the programmer it shoudl be ground ground noconnect rst mosi miso sck
[11:36:19] <simon> rue_house: should there be more than one ground?
[11:36:31] <rue_house> http://www.frank-zhao.com/pics/usnoobie_as_usbasp_sch.png
[11:36:43] <rue_house> it says to ground them both, I suspect there is a reason
[11:37:32] <rue_house> technically your using the wrong vcc for the avr too :)
[11:37:41] <rue_house> but if your on 5V I dont think it matters
[11:37:58] <simon> wrong vcc?
[11:38:06] <rue_house> http://www.frank-zhao.com/pics/usnoobie_as_usbasp_sch.png
[11:38:12] <rue_house> see the vcc they use for the target?
[11:39:46] <simon> aha, tried with that know, and connected the double ground with no luck :(
[11:40:03] <rue_house> ok did you remember to skip that one pin?
[11:40:30] <rue_house> I cant see
[11:40:45] <simon> yes, b1 isnt used
[11:41:07] <rue_house> ok you have a mutimeter>?
[11:41:17] <simon> yes
[11:41:41] <rue_house> if you put the meter probles in the pins of the 2313, from gnd to vcc what do you get?
[11:41:48] <rue_house> about 5V right?
[11:42:31] <simon> i get 4.3V
[11:47:01] <nofxx_> Wondering if there's something like this: A cheatsheet style doc with arduino abstractions and a pure C version for each. Eg digitalWrite(5, 255) -> PORTB ||=(1 << PB5) ... Serial.start -> UCSR0C .....
[11:47:25] <BrentBXR_> are you trying to make a simple programmer?
[11:47:57] <BrentBXR_> im guessing a header file
[11:48:02] <BrentBXR_> of some sort would
[11:48:29] <BrentBXR_> i think arduinos just silly
[11:48:45] <BrentBXR_> but i got to imagin a header file in there includes directory has all that info you want nofxx_
[11:49:29] <simon> BrentBXR_: is the question to me? then yes
[11:49:42] <simon> regarding programmer
[11:49:42] <BrentBXR_> oh simon is it for a one shot program?
[11:49:55] <BrentBXR_> or do you want to continue programing with it
[11:50:23] <nofxx_> BrentBXR_, yup, I know.. but its bad code for what I want, I mean simple few lines examples. arduino code has to make a lot of calc for portability
[11:50:44] <simon> i wanted something to work with until the "real" programmer i bought arives
[11:50:51] <BrentBXR_> ah;
[11:50:59] <nofxx_> Can you run USBasp on the 2313?
[11:51:06] <BrentBXR_> do you have a parallel port?
[11:51:11] <nofxx_> really nice programmer code.. USB to ICSP
[11:51:14] <BrentBXR_> usbasp is isp
[11:51:38] <simon> not any longer, used to have one, and used a simple parport programmer
[11:51:45] <BrentBXR_> ah
[11:51:48] <nofxx_> BrentBXR_, it writes fuses, flash ... doenst make it a programmer ?
[11:52:04] <BrentBXR_> yes
[11:52:10] <BrentBXR_> it does
[11:52:11] <BrentBXR_> lol
[11:52:21] <BrentBXR_> no debug support or emulation
[11:52:24] <BrentBXR_> but still 'programs'
[11:52:39] <nofxx_> yea... need to try that someday. Jtag?
[11:52:43] <simon> BrentBXR_: what do you use? the dragon?
[11:52:58] <nofxx_> 2x
[11:52:59] <BrentBXR_> I own a dragon and a avrice
[11:53:13] <BrentBXR_> i also have a USBASP and AVR Pocket programer
[11:53:23] <BrentBXR_> but there both used for my own
[11:53:24] <BrentBXR_> code
[11:54:07] <nofxx_> well, dragon looks affordable ~ $50 ?
[11:54:21] <nofxx_> solder a zif there to code any avr BrentBXR_ ?
[11:54:57] <simon> BrentBXR_: what tool do you use for debbuging? gdb?
[11:55:19] <nofxx_> need to find one from china, somehow brazilian customs taxes every US pkg I ever ordered, never from China hahah
[11:55:21] <BrentBXR_> avr studio
[11:55:47] <BrentBXR_> and no; i dont use a zif socket
[11:56:01] <simon> is it still windows only or have they added linux support?
[11:56:12] <BrentBXR_> windows only
[11:56:30] <BrentBXR_> i tend to use windows when using avrs and such
[11:56:34] <nofxx_> simon, iirc eclipse has support
[11:56:43] <BrentBXR_> just alot more support and less headache
[11:57:03] <nofxx_> need a terminal one
[11:57:43] <BrentBXR_> simon
[11:57:57] <BrentBXR_> do you own a FT232 uart ttl board
[11:58:08] <BrentBXR_> or a avr butterfly
[11:58:22] <BrentBXR_> or a bus pirate
[11:59:06] <simon> BrentBXR_: i have a FT232 ttl cable and a butterfly
[11:59:19] <BrentBXR_> butterfly can be used as a programer
[11:59:28] <BrentBXR_> without hardware modification?
[11:59:34] <BrentBXR_> i think
[11:59:41] <BrentBXR_> i know avrdude supports it
[11:59:44] <BrentBXR_> as a programmer type
[11:59:46] * BrentBXR_ googles
[12:00:40] <simon> tried the butterfly as a programmer several years ago, dont remember if i ever got it to work
[12:00:47] <nofxx_> I was in this egg<>chicken sittuation once, didn't knew the FT232 trick, had to start an old, dusted, home to spider families PC
[12:00:56] <nofxx_> just for the parallel. But it worked heh
[12:01:28] <nofxx_> in the end cost -> $4. one 328 and a xtal
[12:03:17] <simon> stupid new computers that have nither serial or parallel port :(, could maybe give FT232 a try..
[12:03:17] <OndraSter_> too bad that 328 costs a lot now lol
[12:03:49] <nofxx_> OndraSter_, 3.50 on futurlec
[12:04:00] <OndraSter_> add shipping to here
[12:04:06] <OndraSter_> local shops I can pick it up in have it like $5
[12:04:37] <OndraSter_> still, 3.5 (bucks?) is a lot
[12:04:45] <OndraSter_> they were half the price 4 years ago
[12:04:51] <OndraSter_> then suddenly...
[12:04:58] <BrentBXR_> simon, found it
[12:04:59] <nofxx_> OndraSter_, I see, may worth buying more stuff. Shippment will be ~ $10
[12:05:01] <BrentBXR_> http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/ButtLoad.php
[12:05:08] <BrentBXR_> as i recall its very stable too
[12:05:12] <nofxx_> OndraSter_, thats true... should be < $2
[12:05:17] <OndraSter_> nofxx_, I bought stuff from farnell, for shipping about $6
[12:05:23] <BrentBXR_> oh nvm
[12:05:25] <OndraSter_> with shipping*
[12:05:31] <nofxx_> OndraSter_, wish they deliver in south america =/
[12:05:31] <BrentBXR_> looks like it needs a serial port
[12:05:48] <OndraSter_> haha south america... but what about our little country in the middle of europe!
[12:05:50] <BrentBXR_> wait
[12:05:52] <nofxx_> only stores that I can buy futurlec, tayda and seeedstudio
[12:05:55] <BrentBXR_> u have a FT232 cable?
[12:05:58] <BrentBXR_> a usb to serial?
[12:06:09] <BrentBXR_> prolly work
[12:06:21] <simon> BrentBXR_: yes, a ttl level one
[12:06:38] <simon> would be awsome to use that one
[12:06:59] <amee2k> hmm
[12:07:19] <BrentBXR_> simon, http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Academy&func=viewItem&item_type=project&item_id=517
[12:07:22] <BrentBXR_> id give that a shot
[12:07:24] <amee2k> what is the cheapest AVR with USB interface and, say, at least 8 GPIO or so
[12:07:25] <BrentBXR_> looks simple enough
[12:07:34] <nofxx_> simon, if your ft232 is sitting on an arduino, you can use the X3, solder some pins there
[12:07:49] <BrentBXR_> amee2k all avrs with usb support are like what 32+ pin devices
[12:07:52] <BrentBXR_> no DIP
[12:07:57] <amee2k> ewww
[12:08:03] <amee2k> at least some SOIC ones?
[12:08:03] <simon> nofxx_: no its a seperate cable
[12:08:09] <BrentBXR_> i dont think so
[12:08:12] <nofxx_> amee2k, theres vusb
[12:08:15] <amee2k> or tqfp if there is no other way
[12:08:25] <BrentBXR_> yes
[12:08:27] <abcminiuser> BrentBXR_, I wrote ButtLoad
[12:08:36] <OndraSter_> home soldered BGA ... not as easy
[12:08:38] <BrentBXR_> hows your internship
[12:08:43] <BrentBXR_> well
[12:08:44] <BrentBXR_> employment
[12:08:45] <BrentBXR_> :D
[12:08:48] <OndraSter_> no way to check it below the pads
[12:09:14] <nofxx_> amee2k, nice way to compare -> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Devices&func=devCompare
[12:09:19] <BrentBXR_> abcminiuser, does simon have a chicken <> egg problem?
[12:09:25] <BrentBXR_> if want to use buttload?
[12:09:25] <amee2k> i don't know where some people's weird fetish for BGA and QFN comes from...
[12:09:28] <BrentBXR_> does he need a programmer
[12:09:36] <BrentBXR_> or does the butterfly have a bootloader or somthing?
[12:09:39] <nofxx_> amee2k, vUSB is pretty easy to do, 3 resistors + 2 diodes and you got software usb on any avr
[12:09:47] <abcminiuser> It's got a bootloader
[12:09:50] <amee2k> interresting
[12:09:54] <BrentBXR_> sweet
[12:09:55] <OndraSter_> how much space does vUSB occupy on internal flash?
[12:09:59] <OndraSter_> and RAM
[12:10:01] <amee2k> the AT90USB* are the only ones with USB interface o.O
[12:10:09] <OndraSter_> yap
[12:10:12] <amee2k> ouch
[12:10:15] <nofxx_> OndraSter_, not sure ram, but it's < 2Kb http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html
[12:10:20] <nofxx_> amee2k, link ^
[12:10:24] <OndraSter_> not bad
[12:10:26] <Steffanx> Uhm, what about the uX families amee2k ?
[12:10:36] <BrentBXR_> abcminiuser, i assume its also covered by AVRdude
[12:10:54] <amee2k> i don't need much memory for my own stuff i think, but i do need some realtime capabilities left
[12:10:58] <OndraSter_> still, I am going for FT232RL on my project
[12:11:01] <abcminiuser> BrentBXR_, yeah, AVR910/AVR109
[12:11:01] <OndraSter_> simple, working
[12:11:13] <BrentBXR_> sounds like simon is set then
[12:11:28] <BrentBXR_> until his programmer arrives that is
[12:11:42] <simon> BrentBXR_: abcminiuser: guess what was the last thing i did with my butterfly? flash buttload and that was 5 years ago :O
[12:11:50] <simon> acording to avrfreaks forum
[12:11:50] <BrentBXR_> :D
[12:11:54] <BrentBXR_> then ypour good to go!
[12:11:58] <abcminiuser> simon, you still use it? Neat
[12:11:58] <BrentBXR_> lol
[12:12:12] <OndraSter_> wow
[12:12:28] <amee2k> nofxx_: interresting. too bad i'm out of tiny24s but i'll check that out
[12:12:48] <BrentBXR_> ?
[12:13:00] <BrentBXR_> tiny24 not needed
[12:13:27] <simon> 5 years in a box, and dont think i every used it to programm any chip
[12:13:49] <simon> but could be a first if i cant get the ftdi cable to work
[12:14:21] <BrentBXR_> well I gotta go; gona get some lunch with a friend, ttyl guys
[12:34:02] <ziph> What the f__k HyperTerminal, how can you be so retarded.
[12:34:29] <ziph> I'm trying to debug a Verilog UART and it decided to flip the 8th bit of every character every second time I pressed "a".
[12:38:18] <Steffanx> Special feature ziph
[12:49:06] <ben1066> Hey
[12:49:27] <ben1066> on a usb avr, UVCC should be connected to vcc and vbus and ugnd to gnd and the usb ground rihgt?
[12:49:41] <Steffanx> It's in the datasheet ;)
[12:49:53] <Steffanx> Or there are appnotes with examples
[12:50:21] <ben1066> uvcc is the internal regulator, so im guessing 5v is fine for it?
[12:50:23] <ziph> There's half a dozen diagrams with different arrangements in one of them.
[12:51:14] <ben1066> do you know the name of it, there are a fair few :p
[12:52:02] <ziph> How are you using the chip without the datasheet? :)
[12:52:39] <ben1066> Im reading the datasheet
[12:52:45] <ben1066> you said appnoite....
[12:53:26] <ziph> I'm fairly sure it's in the datasheet, but I haven't looked for a while.
[12:53:28] <impulze> hm when using contiki i'm unable to control my i2c device, though the same code without the contiki PROCESS_FOO works, any clues what could cause that?
[12:54:16] <ben1066> Oh ok, I missed it :P
[13:01:49] <simon> rue_house, etc: managed to flash a avr with a ftdi cable, thanks everyone for your help :)
[13:23:30] <jf1976> hi, im running Ubuntu and want to investigate two devices i got from here http://www.teensy.co.uk both are programmable under windows using the provided software, but i want to know if i can get them programmable under linux, well Ubuntu. thanks.
[13:24:53] <mrfrenzy> those are made by teamexecuter, check out their forum
[13:26:13] <jf1976> cool, do you have a link, i got the Maximus AVR USB PIC18F4550 & X3Max, I understand there for ps3 world but i was hoping i would get a bit more use than that from them, only i can get the to work / program at all under ubuntu
[13:27:05] <mrfrenzy> you want to use them for microcontroller development?
[13:27:48] <jf1976> learning, playing about with..
[13:28:20] <jf1976> i got the x3max cas it had mem card interface but have never got it working
[13:29:05] <jf1976> the other i used as a JB device for about a week before leaving it in its box thinking i should be able to have some fun with them at some point, but have never managed to gain access to the for programming in any way.
[13:29:28] <mrfrenzy> just check the pinout and lookup the datasheet of the mcu
[13:32:20] <ben1066> wow, usb b socket looks huge on that board :p
[13:32:30] <ben1066> its almost as wide as the whole board...
[13:34:29] <jf1976> as i said im new to this stuff, liked the idea of being able to write some simple code for them and got two.
[13:37:43] <jf1976> are there any linux utils that will allow me to dump and program or will i need to learn a whole lot more before i can even talk to it ?
[13:38:16] <jf1976> http://www.teensy.co.uk/maximus12_windows_guide.php is the programming guide for windows.
[13:39:01] <jf1976> this is the other device http://www.teensy.co.uk/x3max_windows_guide.php, i want to be able to used it as maybe a pen drive etc.. as it have an interface for a card.
[13:45:40] <jf1976> both the chip have been scratched so i am unable to id the actual chips
[13:48:01] <jf1976> the x3 should allow me to flash and at90162 and 1286 hex files, so long as a generic.bin firmware has been flashed, is there not a simple way to work out how to connect and flash / upload under linux.
[13:51:08] <jf1976> brb, is this overkill or what im looking for ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=jMf55KVDPaE
[14:04:53] <ben1066> whats a good grid to use while doing pcb traces
[14:13:58] <amee2k> ben1066: 0.1" and 0.05" seem to be common
[14:14:16] <amee2k> you'll probably want something smaller if you have lots of small ass SMT stuff though
[14:14:44] <amee2k> i think a useful guideline is the most common pin pitch in your design
[14:16:41] <ben1066> also, any reason to keep to 45 degree traces these days?
[14:17:07] <amee2k> looks neat, sometimes more reliable to fabricate i think
[14:17:08] <ben1066> and any good alternative to eagle since 6.0.0 requires $$4
[14:17:41] <amee2k> as for the electrical properties i've heard everything from "doesn't make a difference" to "hordes of kitten will die in pain if you don't"
[14:17:51] <ben1066> lol
[14:18:20] <amee2k> some appnote i read said it is pretty banana even for lots of fast circuits
[14:18:30] <amee2k> i'm trying to get used to kicad right now because i think eagle stinks
[14:19:01] <amee2k> the user interface is quite different and imo needs work in some areas (most notably configurability and consistency)
[14:19:03] <ben1066> I cant get on with kicad, it just doesnt like me, or I dont like it, or both
[14:19:10] <amee2k> but i suppose it works if you can live with its kinks
[14:19:43] <ben1066> I like eagle cause the parts are one part, the ui is reasonably intuitive, you can generally work stuff out yourself
[14:19:53] <amee2k> imo someone has been fapping to a textbook too much when he wrote kicad
[14:20:33] <amee2k> small stuff like you can't seem to have a board layout without a schem first
[14:20:43] <amee2k> or you can only have 7 different track widths
[14:21:00] <amee2k> well, plus a default one or something i think
[14:21:21] <amee2k> as i said, the user interface could really use some cleaning up but i think it works
[14:22:06] <amee2k> ben1066: i used to like eagle too but a few years ago i had some file corruption issues with it
[14:22:47] <amee2k> either way, for the project i'm working on now, the freeware license restrictions would make it useless either way, and for some reason i'm out of spare 3000EUR bills...
[14:22:49] <ben1066> The only reason I dont like eagle now is the lack of a freeware license
[14:22:58] <amee2k> lol?
[14:23:07] <ben1066> As of 6.0.0 there isnt one afaik
[14:23:12] <amee2k> ...
[14:23:14] <Steffanx> Where you see 6.0 is 4% ben1066 ?
[14:23:41] <ben1066> 4%?
[14:23:52] <Steffanx> $
[14:23:53] <amee2k> anyway, this board here is way too large for the crippleware license anyway so not much point ranting about it
[14:24:21] <ben1066> Steffanx: I meant it cost $$$ as in money, you cant get it free anymore
[14:24:46] <ben1066> just checked, the most you get for free is a trial
[14:25:05] <rue_house> whats the new free one?
[14:25:26] <ben1066> there isnt...
[14:25:33] <ben1066> the latest free version is 5.11.0
[14:25:38] <Steffanx> Sure?
[14:25:44] <ben1066> certain...
[14:25:58] <rue_house> simon, I'm back
[14:26:04] <rue_house> simon, you got it going?
[14:26:07] <ben1066> and altium costs even more money :S
[14:26:57] <ben1066> anyone tried gEDA?
[14:27:08] <Steffanx> ben1066 … http://www.naffets.nl/share/EAGLE-20120107-211806.pdf
[14:27:55] <ben1066> Oh? is that 6.0.0? it isnt mentioned on their website at all
[14:28:29] <Steffanx> it is
[14:29:11] <ben1066> still, has anyone used gEDA?
[14:29:52] <amee2k> is that the one with gschem and pcb?
[14:30:00] <ben1066> yea
[14:30:55] <amee2k> i tried pcb only... besides the horrible choice of name that makes it impossible to find any information on it online, not much different from kicad (quality wise) i think
[14:32:31] <amee2k> if i were better with c++ or whatever kicad is written in, i'd consider lending a hand actually
[14:33:16] <amee2k> imo it has a better chance than geda at becoming a comprehensive and easy to use solution like eagle
[14:33:18] <ben1066> so overall eagle still is easiest to use?
[14:33:24] <Steffanx> Dont talk about kicad please :P
[14:33:33] <ben1066> Steffanx: what do you use?
[14:33:38] <Steffanx> Eagle
[14:33:38] <amee2k> easiest and most useless one too ;)
[14:34:00] <amee2k> Steffanx wants to give me 3 grand for an eagle license 0.0
[14:34:12] <Steffanx> No thanks
[14:34:14] <amee2k> how nice of you :)
[14:34:45] <Steffanx> Still didnt find that endless source of money
[14:34:58] <amee2k> hehe
[14:35:07] <rue_house> kicad eh?
[14:35:12] <rue_house> where do I get it?
[14:35:14] <amee2k> kinkycad
[14:35:25] <amee2k> distro repo? :)
[14:35:49] <rue_house> I'm on debian, if it hasn't been out for 6 years, I dont have access as a package
[14:36:03] <Steffanx> Who needs a package?
[14:36:07] <amee2k> iirc deb has a package
[14:36:27] <amee2k> i remember seeing it and deb5, and i'm on mint now and have it
[14:36:37] <ben1066> rue_house: what version of debian are you running.... you sure surely be running at least testing :P
[14:36:40] <amee2k> it on* deb5
[14:36:54] <ben1066> anything less and the age of packages is rediculous
[14:37:11] <amee2k> LOL
[14:37:22] <amee2k> the about dialog says built on 2010-00-09
[14:37:24] <amee2k> XD
[14:37:30] <ben1066> ....
[14:37:34] <amee2k> (for my package)
[14:37:36] <ben1066> thats over a year old...
[14:37:48] <amee2k> ben1066: look at the month figure in that date
[14:37:54] <amee2k> that wasn't a typo of mine
[14:38:00] <ben1066> us date
[14:38:04] <ben1066> wait what
[14:38:05] <ben1066> derp
[14:38:08] <amee2k> >_>
[14:38:32] <amee2k> http://ompldr.org/vYzRocA/about.png
[14:38:57] <ben1066> Hnng, I want a program like eagle that isnt eagle :p
[14:39:17] <ben1066> the other thing nice with eagle is there are fairly big part libraries
[14:39:35] <amee2k> as i said imo kicad has the best shot at becoming a free eagle clone
[14:40:04] <ben1066> does it still have that stupid way of seperating the footprint and the schematic part?
[14:40:04] <amee2k> from what i've sene kicad has a fairly wide range of generic footprints. didn't use it for much fancy stuff yet though
[14:40:31] <amee2k> well, footprints don't really have any business on a schematic ;)
[14:40:39] <ben1066> sure
[14:40:49] <amee2k> it does have a funny thing that the layout editor is kinda useless unless you draw a schem first though
[14:41:05] <ben1066> But when i go from schematic to board, switching between the two occasionally, then i like to not have to select the footprint...
[14:41:18] <amee2k> ben1066: not really. a schem doesn't care if a resistor is going to be 0.3" PTH or 1208 SMT or whatever
[14:41:43] <ben1066> I know that, but if I draw a schem, then switch to board
[14:41:58] <ben1066> Then it helps if the board already has the parts I decided before..
[14:42:03] <amee2k> i think the sequence they do things in makes sense, but the UI doesn't exactly make it very intuitive
[14:42:24] <amee2k> the footprint selection needs to be integrated into either the schem editor, or the layout editor
[14:42:49] <amee2k> and the whole netlist generating/loading shebang should be done in background by itself
[14:43:13] <Steffanx> Like EAGLE does it?
[14:43:20] <amee2k> i.e. when you save the schem it should regenerate the netlist too, and if there is a board layout it should make the layout editor reload the netlist
[14:43:35] <rue_house> and if you connect two nodes togethor it SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ASK WHAT NUMBER YOU WANT HTE NEW NODE TO BE
[14:43:35] <amee2k> because that is what you do 90% of the time anyway
[14:43:53] <amee2k> Steffanx: yeah, kinda
[14:43:53] <rue_house> in GOD KNOWS how many node joins ONLY ONCE did I want a specific node name
[14:44:01] <Steffanx> DipTrace also doesn't reload the netlist..
[14:44:05] <Steffanx> You have to do that by hand
[14:44:13] <amee2k> imo a layout editor that depends on having a schem doesn't really make much sense, but still
[14:44:13] <Steffanx> I've no idea how Altium does it
[14:44:15] <ben1066> kiCAD is sounding worse and worse...
[14:44:26] <ben1066> I did try the altium trial, and its nice
[14:44:31] <ben1066> but not $5000 nice
[14:44:40] <Steffanx> You are a student?
[14:44:44] <ben1066> Uh yes
[14:44:46] <Steffanx> There's a 99$ student license
[14:44:48] <Steffanx> :P
[14:44:52] <ben1066> wait what where
[14:44:53] <amee2k> ben1066: well, unlike eagle i didn't have any issues with it corrupting my files yet. i count that as an advantage
[14:44:53] <Steffanx> 99$/year
[14:45:06] <rue_house> see, get into university ONLY for those kinda benifits
[14:45:09] <ben1066> amee2k: Ive never had that issue
[14:45:58] <amee2k> ben1066: well i did. and since it failed with the same useless generic error message like "invalid file" that people get when they use a crack, that pretty much instantly disqualified me from community support in any way
[14:46:51] <amee2k> just for the cheap seats.... I WAS USING THE MOTHER FUCKING FREEWARE LICENSE BECAUSE I'M SICK OF BUGGY CRACKS WHY DO YOU THINK I USE LINUX TO BEGIN WITH
[14:47:08] <amee2k> that just had to be said.
[14:47:11] * amee2k nods
[14:47:11] <rue_house> I dont make money with my stuff, I want free too
[14:47:25] <Steffanx> You have to call or send an email the the local reseller or something like that ben1066
[14:48:40] <amee2k> kicad makes me want to become a software geek
[14:50:09] <Steffanx> Why?
[14:50:13] <ben1066> Steffanx: the per year bit made it slightly less attractive :P
[14:50:35] <Steffanx> Still not that much money for software like Altium
[14:50:35] <ben1066> The lack of a good package makes me want to make my own :P
[14:50:48] <ben1066> Steffanx: i know that, but eventually i wont be a student :p
[14:50:59] <amee2k> Steffanx: because i think it it really has a chance of becoming a practically useful tool and i kinda want to see that happen
[14:51:12] <ben1066> amee2k: It needs some major changes first..
[14:51:30] <amee2k> it needs major UI surgery imo
[14:51:46] <Steffanx> It's by programmers for programmers amee2k :)
[14:52:11] <ben1066> I guess Ill have to make do with eagle for now
[14:52:27] <Steffanx> EAGLE isn't that bad is it?
[14:52:48] <amee2k> it is useless if you want to make a board larger than an arduino
[14:53:15] <ben1066> Yea, what amee2k said
[14:53:16] <amee2k> so unless you want to buy a license for me, i wouldn't know what to do with it
[14:53:20] <ben1066> I havae hit that ONCE
[14:53:27] <ben1066> but I managed to fit it
[14:53:39] <rue_house> but if you want to make a board 12"x12" you really should be breaking it up into multiple baords anyhow
[14:54:03] <Steffanx> I don't have real problems with 10x8cm board amee2k ..
[14:54:13] <amee2k> i once overheard some dude saying that apparently some "major microphone manufacturer" is exclusively using the freeware eagle license because they don't have any boards larger than that anyway
[14:54:38] <Steffanx> "non-commercial use" :D
[14:54:42] <rue_house> maybe thats why they bolted it down
[14:54:42] <amee2k> Steffanx: i'm looking at 6x20cm right now. and i wouldn't consider it as big even
[14:54:59] <Steffanx> It is imho
[14:55:03] <rue_house> a keybaord?
[14:55:05] <amee2k> not really
[14:55:08] <rue_house> whats easy to split up
[14:55:17] <amee2k> only slightly longer than a 10x16 eurocard
[14:55:53] <ben1066> does the atmega32u4 come in qfn?
[14:55:55] <rue_house> mm.... no... cm... maybe
[14:56:01] <Steffanx> Only costs you 625$ amee2k :)
[14:56:23] <amee2k> ben1066: yeah, 10x16cm. thats err... 4x6.5" i think
[14:56:39] <Steffanx> (not sure if you can use the freeware schmetic editor with a 'professional' layout editor)
[14:56:42] <ben1066> im british.... I use cm...
[14:56:47] <amee2k> Steffanx: what, a eurocard?
[14:56:47] <rue_house> I code recreationally, if I had to pay for compilers I woulnd't code at all
[14:56:55] <Steffanx> No, 4mx4m amee2k
[14:57:05] <amee2k> ??
[14:57:15] <Steffanx> !!
[14:57:19] <rue_house> I'm canadaian, and untill the god damned usa figures out where 0 is on the ruler we have to keep using imperial
[14:57:23] <amee2k> i don't get it
[14:57:23] <specing> You people should use gEDA
[14:57:28] <Steffanx> No we dont
[14:57:53] <Steffanx> You can get the layout editor for $625, amee2k
[14:58:10] <Steffanx> Combine it with the freeware schematic editor and you're done (if that possible)
[14:58:18] <amee2k> Steffanx: what costs 625$ and why would you want to give me that much money?
[14:58:31] <Steffanx> ...
[14:59:10] <amee2k> my hobby budget is something like 50EUR/mo on average. i'd have to save up like a year for that
[14:59:52] <Steffanx> Find a job
[14:59:53] <amee2k> in a year i should be able to get it done with kicad too, plus save up enough money to actually have the board fabricated
[14:59:54] <Steffanx> :P
[15:00:10] <amee2k> Steffanx: why do you think i'm studying >_>
[15:00:25] <Steffanx> Can't work and study at the same time?
[15:00:37] <Steffanx> I mean.. a week has 7 days :P
[15:00:49] <amee2k> who says i don't job already
[15:01:02] <Steffanx> I do
[15:01:12] <amee2k> but most of that is small time crap anyway
[15:01:52] <amee2k> i want to finish uni so i can get a real job that is much more cost effective than student jobs
[15:07:19] <ben1066> is the enc28j2...blah the cheapest way to add ethernet to avr?
[15:09:05] <OndraSter_> yep
[15:14:01] <ben1066> OH FFS EAGLE
[15:14:04] <ben1066> I just updated to 6.0.0
[15:14:12] <ben1066> and now all my part libraries are duplicated
[15:14:14] <ben1066> one 6.0.0
[15:14:17] <ben1066> one 5.1.1
[15:20:12] <Steffanx> aaaah
[15:20:17] <simon> rue_house: changed to a ftdi cable as programmer and managed to flash a avr a few times, but later stoped working, dont know why but will take a closer look at it tomorrow, thank you very much for taking the time to tring to help med :)
[15:22:55] <ben1066> simon: The easiest way is to get a avrisp mk2 imo, they arent hugely expensive and they just work :P
[15:23:25] <ben1066> Hmm, I wonder if I could use Power over Ethernet...
[15:23:35] <ben1066> I wonder if my router even supplies it
[15:23:51] <OndraSter_> I doubt it supplies it
[15:24:13] <ben1066> is there an easy way to check?
[15:24:30] <OndraSter_> search internet for the name of the router :P
[15:24:32] <OndraSter_> and check manual
[15:25:01] <amee2k> if it does, i bet they'd brag about it on the feature list
[15:25:13] <amee2k> just find some place that sells it and check the product description
[15:25:30] <OndraSter_> plus it requires big power adapter
[15:25:39] <OndraSter_> as it is supposed to do at least one extra amp per port in theory
[15:25:59] <amee2k> and iirc at something like 24..36V or so
[15:26:03] <ben1066> the power adaptor is your standard SMPS wallwart
[15:26:05] <amee2k> depending on flavour
[15:26:20] <ben1066> what pins is it supplied on, I could multimeter a cable
[15:26:30] <OndraSter_> oops, few mAmps, but quite high voltage
[15:27:15] <amee2k> it uses one pair of the data wires in each direction
[15:27:24] <amee2k> using the center taps on the ethernet transformers
[15:27:29] <simon> ben1066: agree that a real programmer is preferable, ordered a avrasp but couldnt wait for it to arive
[15:27:48] <amee2k> but there is some negotiation involved so it may not just show up with a naive check
[15:28:00] <ben1066> dammit!
[15:28:31] <OndraSter_> it would be rather dangerous, wouldn't it
[15:28:35] <OndraSter_> if it would be there all the time
[15:29:01] <amee2k> ports that are capable of providing PoE are usually marked differently than non-poe ones
[15:29:15] <OndraSter_> still, it would be dangerous
[15:29:36] <amee2k> if there isn't anything on the case that indicates poe will be available i'd say there is little chance that it supports it
[15:29:36] <ben1066> all my ports are yellow
[15:29:54] <ben1066> OndraSter_: telephone provides a good amount of voltage, I know, I shocked myself by accident :P
[15:30:08] <ben1066> thats 80 or something
[15:30:59] <OndraSter_> I know
[15:31:05] <OndraSter_> but that is there always :)
[15:31:16] <OndraSter_> PoE is optional
[15:31:18] <amee2k> http://www.netgear.com/images/gs108p_productimage_lowres18-5309.jpg << like this... note the yellow stripe along the four PoE ports
[15:31:26] <OndraSter_> and not always those pins are used for power, they are usually used for data
[15:32:07] <ben1066> mine most likely doesnt have it then
[15:33:44] <OndraSter_> btw today I wrote simple terminal application for PC, that allows sending (and receiving) both in ascii and hex format
[15:33:55] <OndraSter_> simple ascii goesl ike
[15:33:57] <ben1066> serial?
[15:34:05] <OndraSter_> asdfgfoobarbaz
[15:34:05] <OndraSter_> ye
[15:34:07] <OndraSter_> and hex goes \97\5a\7f
[15:34:10] <OndraSter_> you can combine it ofc
[15:34:11] <OndraSter_> aka
[15:34:22] <OndraSter_> asdf\9f\00gh
[15:34:55] <OndraSter_> the same, if the received data are outside the normal displayable characters (0x20 <> 0x7E I think), they get shown in \xx format
[15:35:05] <OndraSter_> good for testing out stuff IMHO :)
[15:36:19] <OndraSter_> not sure how should I handle CRLF (0D 0A)... if as new line or as normal characters... it differs for each use :(
[15:47:02] <amee2k> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2i_CKDrZUw
[15:47:02] <amee2k> ...
[16:14:41] <amee2k> hmm... speaking of pcb layouting software... how good are the free proprietary layout tools that board houses sometimes provide?
[16:15:18] <amee2k> someone earlier linked me to pcb123
[16:29:49] <impulze> i have two sensors for a weather station (pce fws 20) but i can't seem to find out on the net how i'm supposed to work with them, any clues where to look for? or is there a standard procedure to work with sensors? i've heard they're supposed to produce interrupts
[16:30:44] <amee2k> the datasheet should outline how to interface with them
[16:30:44] <impulze> oh wait, now i've read it, they're just closing a switch
[16:31:51] <amee2k> depending on how much interrest the manufacturer has in people using them, the description should be more or less sufficient for at least basic functionality
[16:33:00] <impulze> yea thank you, i totally misread the datasheet
[16:33:16] <amee2k> :)
[17:10:36] <BrentBXR_> anyone with good c knowledge have some time to help me out on somthing
[17:10:49] <Steffanx> Who knows
[17:10:53] <OndraSter_> ask, BrentBXR_ .)
[17:12:11] <amee2k> hmm.... i've been pondering heatsinks! now the reason why you use thermal grease to mount them is to fill voids where the device and the heatsink don't make contact because air is a really shitty thermal conductor, right?
[17:12:48] <BrentBXR_> dont know if the last message came though;
[17:12:53] <OndraSter_> yes amee2k
[17:13:03] <OndraSter_> only one came through, bren
[17:13:06] <OndraSter_> ..
[17:13:07] <OndraSter_> he's gone
[17:13:58] <amee2k> but how about tinning the heat spreader on the device, so when i bolt the sink down it'll press into the soft tin surface and make contact over almost the entire surface?
[17:14:26] <BrentBXR_> fucking lagging
[17:14:26] <OndraSter_> BrentBXR_, only one message came through
[17:14:39] <BrentBXR_> im lagging like crazy
[17:14:42] <OndraSter_> amee2k, can you draw it or smth?
[17:14:43] <BrentBXR_> +28
[17:14:52] <BrentBXR_> thats better
[17:15:03] <BrentBXR_> anyways anyone got a moment to help me make a math related function better :3
[17:15:09] <OndraSter_> huh math
[17:15:17] <BrentBXR_> im having a hard time trying to think of a better way to perform it
[17:15:33] <amee2k> OndraSter_: well, the heat sink only contacts the device over a partial area because no two surfaces are a perfect match
[17:16:05] <OndraSter_> and what do you want to do with bolts?
[17:16:27] <amee2k> so the parts that make contact first will prevent the rest from contacting. ideally only three points because that is enough to define a plane, plus some extra contacts due to deformation by the pressure that keeps the heat sink on
[17:16:56] <amee2k> so how about coating one of the surfaces with a really soft metal, like tin (i'd propose lead but i can't stand all the green fapping)
[17:17:27] <amee2k> so when you bolt down the heatsink, the soft surface will deform and mold against the other one
[17:17:42] <OndraSter_> brb a sec
[17:18:19] <amee2k> obviously that would only work well in a situation where you can apply some force, like when heatsinking a circuit board ground plane (my case) or when using a supported heat spreader
[17:19:07] <amee2k> i'm still on about heatsinking a board ground plane to keep SMT stuff cool. since the ground plane is electrically neutral i'll specify no solder stop where the heatsink will make contact.
[17:19:40] <amee2k> so it occoured to me if i could specify some thick tin plating for that area, i could dispense with the thermal goop *and* get better contact at the same time
[17:19:47] <amee2k> any thoughts?
[17:19:59] <OndraSter_> what are you trying to cool off?
[17:20:04] <OndraSter_> I don't suppose it is atmega :D
[17:20:13] <amee2k> power LEDs
[17:20:23] <OndraSter_> ah
[17:20:24] <amee2k> don't ask me why everyone makes these in SMT packages
[17:20:35] <OndraSter_> I bought that chinese 100W LED
[17:20:40] <amee2k> lol
[17:20:41] <OndraSter_> I put it onto AMD heatsink
[17:20:50] <OndraSter_> it shines like hell
[17:20:55] <OndraSter_> 200W classic lightbulb is nowhere near it :P
[17:21:07] <amee2k> i've got some 1.5W ones here, but the final design should take some nice high efficiency 10W emitters too
[17:21:13] <OndraSter_> and ye, I used thermal paste
[17:21:33] <amee2k> but four 10W emitters is still quite a bit of heat to get rid of
[17:21:38] <OndraSter_> hehe
[17:21:39] <OndraSter_> yap
[17:22:23] <OndraSter_> the bigger contact with heatsink, the usually better
[17:22:29] <amee2k> so i'm perforating the board with vias and put a large ground plane on each side of the board. then bolt the board flat against a heatsink
[17:22:39] <OndraSter_> I can!t help you ore now, I had too much beers and I can!t think straight anymore
[17:22:42] <OndraSter_> sorry
[17:23:04] <amee2k> hehe, no problem :)
[17:23:12] <OndraSter_> I had to finish the keg lol
[17:23:48] <amee2k> from my paper draft i expect a continuous contact surface for the heatsink that is around 18x4cm (~7x1.8")
[17:24:33] <amee2k> mounting with either three or five M4 bolts with 20mm dia. washers to spread the pressure
[17:28:41] <OndraLappy> just for future: OndraSter = OndraLappy = OndraTablet = OndraPhone :)
[17:28:48] <OndraLappy> depends on the device I am connecting from
[17:29:25] <amee2k> i think most people would figure that out quickly anyway :)
[17:29:29] <OndraLappy> ok
[17:30:18] <vectory> i was very much confused :'D
[17:31:22] <amee2k> somehow irc is really quiet tonight...
[17:31:39] <vectory> well, its caturday
[17:31:41] <OndraLappy> I say let's invite some strippers
[17:31:46] <amee2k> 0.0
[17:31:50] <amee2k> hot
[17:31:54] <OndraLappy> :D
[17:32:04] <amee2k> do they come with lu... err thermal grease?
[17:32:09] <OndraLappy> :D
[17:32:15] <amee2k> >_>
[17:32:23] <OndraLappy> they come only with lubrication oil
[17:37:00] <vectory> OndraLappy: how did reading the 8052 go?
[17:37:15] <vectory> any progress?
[17:37:19] <OndraLappy> haven'T tried it
[17:37:26] <OndraLappy> didn't have time for that
[17:39:51] <vectory> the ds was rather sparse with regards to programming
[17:40:30] <OndraLappy> yap
[17:40:42] <OndraLappy> I was hoping that programming was standardized across all 8062
[17:40:43] <OndraLappy> 8052
[17:41:08] <OndraLappy> fine would be even figuring out what does the external circuitry do
[17:41:14] <OndraLappy> but my logic probe is burnt
[17:41:27] <OndraLappy> yeah, I tend to burn everyhitngl lol
[17:41:32] <OndraLappy> everything
[17:45:03] <mrfrenzy> OndraLappy: tried irssiproxy?
[17:45:31] <OndraLappy> I had irssi client
[17:45:40] <OndraLappy> proxy is useless, I don't have public IP
[17:45:51] <OndraLappy> at home
[17:46:22] <mrfrenzy> not supplying a public ip should be illegal
[17:46:23] <amee2k> find a shell account or vps?
[17:46:31] <OndraLappy> I can haz vps
[17:46:36] <OndraLappy> haha
[17:46:51] <OndraLappy> I share my IP with 650 people or so
[17:47:03] <amee2k> ...
[17:47:03] <mrfrenzy> ooh the times when ident acutally ment something
[17:47:03] <OndraLappy> 213.192.3.1
[17:47:08] <mrfrenzy> regular lusers didn't have root ;)
[17:47:14] <OndraLappy> I want IPv6 without NAT :)
[17:47:25] <OndraLappy> still no IPv6 here though
[17:47:31] <amee2k> iirc there is no official support for NAT in ipv6 anymore
[17:47:33] <mrfrenzy> well that you can certainly get through many kinds of tunnels
[17:47:54] <amee2k> the whole point of v6 was eliminating the need for NATs anyway
[17:48:02] <mrfrenzy> so there you have your public ip
[17:48:07] <mrfrenzy> indeed
[17:48:49] <Kevin`> that's the whole reason nat support for ipv6 is rare. if it were actually implemented, isps would start using it out of reflexive greed for addresses
[17:49:01] <amee2k> in theory you could probably nat v6 anyway, but officially it doesn't exist
[17:49:09] <OndraLappy> ye you could
[17:49:14] <OndraLappy> I have IPv6 in my home network
[17:49:16] <OndraLappy> (useles,, I know)
[17:49:18] <amee2k> ...
[17:49:21] <OndraLappy> I am offf to sleep
[17:49:27] <OndraLappy> getting up in 6 hours lol
[17:49:28] <OndraLappy> gn
[17:49:36] <Kevin`> I have ipv6 at home too, but it's all globally routable
[17:49:44] <amee2k> v6 addresses are long enough so you could allocate a /8 block to every molecule on earth or something
[17:50:08] <amee2k> forcing people to use a NAT would be ridiculous
[17:50:17] <Kevin`> and yet it will happen
[17:50:35] <Kevin`> do you really expect something like a cell phone carrier to give customers more than one address? ;p
[17:50:42] <amee2k> someone deserves to be castrated with a shotgun for this
[17:51:01] <Kevin`> certainly true
[17:51:12] <jacekowski> amee2k: http://xkcd.com/865/
[17:51:24] <amee2k> maybe not cellphone services but real internet plans with only one v6 address would be ridiculous
[17:52:20] <amee2k> jacekowski: LOL