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[01:34:01] <ziph> Hallo der abcminiuser!
[01:34:12] <abcminiuser> Hallo!
[01:34:19] <abcminiuser> Super, super, super jetlagged
[01:34:37] <ziph> Started work yet?
[01:35:08] <abcminiuser> No, Monday
[01:35:16] <abcminiuser> Looking at potential houses today
[01:35:27] <abcminiuser> Norwegian apartments are TINY
[01:35:31] <ziph> Are they paying your rent?
[01:35:45] <abcminiuser> I think the one I looked at last night where roughly the size of my (old?) house's kitchen
[01:35:53] <ziph> :)
[01:35:56] <abcminiuser> ^ Two weeks in a hotel paid by Atmel, rest is up to me
[01:36:02] <ziph> Ahh.
[01:36:18] <ziph> And your girlfriend is there with you? :)
[01:36:29] <abcminiuser> Yes, she's jetlagged too :S
[01:38:30] <ziph> Heh. :)
[01:39:22] <ziph> Moving straight out of home into another country with a partner should be interesting. :)
[02:08:29] <inflex> aye, that can be difficult
[02:08:39] <inflex> I prefer to jump countries as a single person
[02:08:51] <inflex> so, I guess I'll not be jumping countries for the rest of my life :D
[04:35:05] <tomatto_> helo
[04:35:07] <tomatto_> hello
[04:35:17] <Steffanx> Hi
[04:35:35] <tomatto_> how can i find out what frequency is on adcX pin?
[04:36:11] <Steffanx> fourier transform ?
[04:37:17] <karlp> you mean, there is a signal coming on the pin, and you want to knwo what frequency it is?
[04:37:31] <karlp> if the pin is T1, or one of the timer inputs, you can use one of the freq counting libraries.
[04:37:37] <Steffanx> He wants to do some audio processing karlp
[04:37:57] <karlp> oh, this is the "coloured music" guy?
[04:38:08] <Steffanx> Yeah, still the same guy
[04:38:33] <tomatto_> karlp: analog signal
[04:38:35] <karlp> isn't this best done with some analog filters, and then some thresholding to switch triacs on and off at certain levels?
[04:38:47] <karlp> and leave digital out of it?
[04:38:55] <Steffanx> Why DSP isn't that bad
[04:39:02] <tomatto_> karlp: whats wrong about colour music?
[04:39:03] <karlp> well, this is #avr :)
[04:39:23] <Steffanx> tomatto_ maybe you should look for similar projects..
[04:39:30] <Steffanx> Read the code/documentation
[04:39:37] <Steffanx> And try to implement something
[04:39:56] <tomatto_> Steffanx: i tried to look for similar project but i didn't find
[04:40:56] <Steffanx> You try to do something like this, not?
[04:40:57] <Steffanx> http://www.instructables.com/id/AVR-acoustic-spectrum-analyzer/
[04:41:26] <Steffanx> Hi RikusW
[04:41:54] <RikusW> hi Steffanx
[04:41:55] <tomatto_> karlp: yes, i know this is #avr, it's exactly what i need. i want to do it with avr, which sampling analog frequency and determine which PWM set
[04:43:08] <Steffanx> How's SA nowadays RikusW ?
[04:46:13] <RikusW> hot
[04:46:20] <tomatto_> Steffanx: he has every code in bas and poland language
[04:46:26] <RikusW> cold over there ?
[04:46:46] <Steffanx> 7C .. and some trouble with water
[04:46:54] * RikusW had a bit too much meatboy ;)
[04:47:06] <RikusW> crazily difficult game
[04:48:40] <RikusW> burst pipes ?
[04:49:33] <Steffanx> No, rain/wind
[04:49:48] <RikusW> snow ?
[04:49:55] <Steffanx> No snow
[05:38:40] <Steffanx> abcminiuser, i thought norway was a clean country.. but there's really trash everywhere. At least in the streets nearby your house
[05:39:16] <karlp> probably new years junk
[05:39:19] <karlp> it's the same here.
[05:39:29] <karlp> all the fireworks debris and leftover christmas trees
[05:39:38] <amee2k> it's probably the same after every large scale celebration
[05:39:41] <Steffanx> Not very likely… It's on google streetview
[05:39:49] <amee2k> O.o
[05:40:30] <abcminiuser> Must have been a fluke, it's clean now
[05:40:35] <abcminiuser> Or at least, snowed over
[05:40:49] <Steffanx> I guess the last thing :D
[05:43:14] <abcminiuser> Out of sight...
[05:44:05] <Steffanx> You should get yourself a boat :D
[05:44:47] <abcminiuser> We have fishing rights from our balcony apparently
[05:44:55] <abcminiuser> Literally just throw a line out the window
[05:47:28] <_abc_> Is there somewhere some contact for Atmel web support or such? It is impossible for me to register. I tried 3 times in the past, using firefox, it never completes.
[05:47:45] <_abc_> I need to get the wincupl for windows. Any direct link perhaps?
[05:48:37] <abcminiuser> _abc_, register where?
[06:19:43] <_abc_> abcminiuser: Atmel wants me to register, I tried that before, does not work for me
[06:19:57] <_abc_> I fill out the shebang and it is ignored. There's also no feedback address
[06:20:06] <_abc_> Sorry about the delay.
[06:20:29] <_abc_> Anyway I'll probably go with Altera instead. Thanks.
[06:21:33] <abcminiuser> Oh, the survey?
[06:21:55] <abcminiuser> You can bypass that
[06:22:02] <abcminiuser> Just before the .php, add _splash
[06:28:29] <Steffanx> :P
[06:28:33] <Steffanx> That's still there?
[06:31:08] <Steffanx> That survey is useless anyway
[06:42:33] <_abc_> abcminiuser: what survey?
[06:42:49] <_abc_> Sorry for the delay again, I am wrestling with Altera downloads
[06:42:51] <abcminiuser> I mean the crap you have to fill in before you get a download
[06:43:00] <_abc_> Oh it is crap?!
[06:43:00] <abcminiuser> Oh wait, I'm employed now
[06:43:06] <_abc_> lol?
[06:43:08] <_abc_> rofl
[06:43:16] <abcminiuser> Err, the helpul customer form you are requested to fill in before a download?
[06:43:27] <_abc_> Yeah more or less <corna>
[06:45:01] <abcminiuser> https://twitter.com/#!/abcminiuser/status/116374701990887424
[06:45:01] <_abc_> abcminiuser: okay, it is not php, it is asp, and I don't see where I could plug that in
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2759
[06:45:46] <abcminiuser> _abc_,
https://twitter.com/#!/abcminiuser/status/116374701990887424
[06:45:58] <_abc_> Where the blazes is that download. Any your twitter pages does not load here for some reason.
[06:46:07] <_abc_> Let's wait a bit I have a >3GB download on
[06:46:12] <abcminiuser> http://pastebin.com/CQHbWeg2
[06:47:03] <amee2k> i want a trained canary that can tweet the opening theme of the old BSG show
[06:47:04] <_abc_> Ah okay.
[06:47:13] <Steffanx> amee2k get one
[06:47:22] <_abc_> amee2k: you need a trained eagle to pick out your liver in rhythm :)
[06:47:35] <amee2k> i haven't found anyone making canarys to specs yet :(
[06:47:42] <_abc_> abcminiuser: thanks for that 'script'. Reading source is wonderful
[06:48:20] <abcminiuser> Well install it with Greasemonkey
[06:48:25] <_abc_> abcminiuser: only, this time it does not work. There is no such url in the page:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2759
[06:48:34] <_abc_> abcminiuser: no need to install it, I can edit the url by hand
[06:48:57] <amee2k> greasemonkey has an install function now?
[06:49:02] <abcminiuser> Crap, that is different
[06:49:34] <amee2k> last time i checked you had to install a web server, put the script on it, then load it from there with the browser to make GM install it
[06:50:02] <_abc_> amee2k: it has a location where you can drop scripts
[06:50:08] <_abc_> amee2k: don't ask me where
[06:50:12] <amee2k> lol
[06:50:21] <amee2k> do you need to download a crack to make it work too?
[06:50:37] <_abc_> you can probably find it with find ~/.mozilla -iname '*greasem*'
[06:51:10] <_abc_> I wonder where they hid wincupl?!
[06:53:43] <tomatto_> light color organ i want to build with avr atmega8 and program with C, can you help please?
[07:54:56] <amee2k> do shottky diodes "zener out" when you exceed their reverse voltage just like normal diodes?
[08:00:17] <ziph> Does zenering out include going into avalanche breakdown and dying? Because that's what a normal diode will do.
[08:00:57] <abcminiuser> Urgh. Women and computers, never should the two meet
[08:01:53] <ziph> abcminiuser: Sounds like you need some time in IT support.
[08:02:49] <amee2k> ziph: well, only if it exceeds the dissipation limit of the device
[08:03:08] <amee2k> i've got an LC filter on a power input connector, with a reverse diode from ground on the input side
[08:03:45] <amee2k> when disconnecting under load, the filter would be capable of producing a low energy high voltage spike across the diode that i want it to catch
[08:04:23] <amee2k> it would naturally shunt away a negative spike due to the diode's orientation, but what about a positive one
[08:07:25] <ziph> AC power?
[08:46:22] -zelazny.freenode.net:#avr- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify:
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[08:46:23] <_abc_> Your question was answered in the best ##electronics style :)
[08:46:34] <_abc_> No citations on edn or wikipedia, though
[08:55:30] <amee2k> ziph: yeah, but is that an advantage? i'm thinking about reducing voltage slew rate when a protection event is about to happen
[08:56:05] <ziph> What else have you got on it, a MOV?
[08:56:48] <amee2k> no, that is pretty much the entire input filter
[08:57:19] <ziph> So there's nothing limiting the current through the diode when the input is reverse biased?
[08:57:33] <amee2k> only the fuse blowing
[08:57:45] <amee2k> i consider the diode just as expendable as the fuse
[08:58:14] <ziph> Yeah, hopefully it kills the fuse first.
[08:58:45] <ziph> I was pointing out that you probably don't want that current running through the inductor, by the way.
[08:58:47] <amee2k> the inductor would just saturate (provided the diode is on the load side) but not take damage before the fuse blows
[09:35:10] <specing> http://imgur.com/gallery/PsvJe
[09:35:55] <amee2k> fappers gonna fap
[09:36:28] <karlp> that's awesome!
[09:36:42] <ziph> All the more for its pointlessness. :)
[09:38:09] <amee2k> the title is kinda pointless
[09:38:30] <ziph> Most people prefer to speak in meme and cliche.
[09:38:43] <amee2k> penises gonna peen
[09:38:44] <Steffanx> Arguing about the title is even more pointless
[09:39:03] <ziph> Instead, what's the best Linux distribution?
[09:39:06] <amee2k> Steffanx: but it is so pointless that it becomes a point of its own again
[09:39:11] <Steffanx> Windows ziph
[09:39:28] <amee2k> politics is doing that all the time
[09:42:21] <amee2k> ziph: just try them all in turn. when you think "oh, this is cool. it looks kinda gay but i like it that way" then you've found it
[09:42:44] <ziph> I was making a point about pointless arguments.
[09:43:19] <ziph> My actual favorite Linux distribution is FreeBSD.
[09:43:20] <amee2k> and i was making a pointless point to the argument
[09:45:50] <karlp> if we're arguing on the internet, freebsd isn't linux :)
[09:46:08] <ziph> It is if you load the right module. :)
[09:46:52] <amee2k> on the internet, everything is linux if it is convenient for the situation
[09:46:57] * amee2k nods
[09:52:46] <Steffanx> Windows is linux too, if you load the right module
[09:54:19] <ziph> Oh?
[11:17:58] <OndraSter_> how the hell are you supposed to solder onto connectors in 6.3 jack?
[11:18:01] <OndraSter_> the Sn doesn't catch it
[11:18:03] <OndraSter_> I tried everything
[11:18:10] <OndraSter_> scratching it, different flux
[11:20:57] <karlp> scratch it more, normally works?
[11:21:00] <karlp> but yeah, a pain in the arse
[11:43:57] <OndraSter_> it took a lot of time
[11:44:00] <OndraSter_> and a lot of swearing
[11:44:02] <OndraSter_> but HERE IT COMES
[11:45:07] <OndraSter_> I think I have switched two wires
[11:45:09] <OndraSter_> it sounds weird
[11:45:11] <OndraSter_> :(
[11:45:21] <OndraSter_> there was no common as one wire
[11:45:33] <OndraSter_> there were four wires: green, yellow, white and brown
[11:45:36] <OndraSter_> how was I supposed to guess
[11:45:40] <OndraSter_> I knew which one is L and which one was R
[11:47:38] <OndraSter_> I thought that yellow and white are common/channels
[11:50:48] <OndraSter_> yap
[11:50:50] <OndraSter_> sounds better
[11:50:51] <OndraSter_> w000t
[11:53:22] <OndraSter_> hmm
[11:53:26] <OndraSter_> might be even the 2nd one be flipped?
[11:53:36] <OndraSter_> because now left speaker sounds weird
[11:53:47] <OndraSter_> I thought that polarity doesn't matter as long as it is the same
[11:59:59] <OndraSter_> yap, now it sounds right
[12:00:16] <OndraSter_> took me like an hour!!
[12:00:21] <OndraSter_> to solder new connector to headphones
[12:00:23] <OndraSter_> lol
[12:02:40] <_abc_> Guys, have you seen vastly different device flash sizes when compiling with different avr-gcc versions?
[12:02:58] <_abc_> Vastly means for example 8000 vs 8100 bytes with target size 8k atmega
[12:03:14] <_abc_> I have seen this happen and I am worried about avr-gcc versions now, as a result
[12:03:46] <OndraSter_> sure, better internal optimalizations can happen
[12:04:33] <_abc_> Okay, between versions which differ by only a few months?
[12:04:46] <OndraSter_> yap
[12:05:00] <_abc_> I am comparing winavr+studio4 on windows with linux avr-gcc tools downloaded with maybe 2 months between them, likely less
[12:05:12] <OndraSter_> winavr for Windows is rather old
[12:05:22] <OndraSter_> january 2010
[12:05:23] <_abc_> So if I want to be sure there are not surprizing size jumps I have to benchmark this myself?
[12:05:26] <_abc_> ah
[12:05:33] <_abc_> And is there a newer version?
[12:05:38] <OndraSter_> nope, not official winavr
[12:05:43] <OndraSter_> but avr studio 5 has its own
[12:06:11] <_abc_> My device was nearly full and when moving over to windows from linux I had the code grow over the device size for no reason. I had to turn off some features in the code to shrink it...
[12:06:13] <OndraSter_> avr studio 5:
[12:06:13] <OndraSter_> gcc version 4.5.1 (AVR_8_bit_GNU_Toolchain_3.2.3_315)
[12:06:18] <_abc_> I have 4
[12:06:22] <_abc_> Do I want 5?
[12:06:42] <OndraSter_> winavr for studio 4:
[12:06:43] <OndraSter_> gcc version 4.3.3 (WinAVR 20100110)
[12:06:51] <OndraSter_> well that depends
[12:06:54] <OndraSter_> do you like Visual Studio?
[12:07:27] <_abc_> I have 4.3.2 and 4.3.3 on windows and 4.5.1 in linux
[12:07:42] <OndraSter_> you can install avr studio 5 next to 4
[12:07:44] <OndraSter_> and they both can work
[12:07:46] <_abc_> looks like 4.3.3 is what I'm stuck with
[12:08:09] <_abc_> okay I have to look at studio5
[12:08:20] <_abc_> groan I downloaded 3GB today, fpga tools
[12:08:27] <OndraSter_> hehe
[12:12:33] <_abc_> getting 606MB, peanuts, eh <wink>
[12:13:15] <OndraSter_> just askin': what do you use to flash/debug your deivce?
[12:13:17] <OndraSter_> device
[12:13:58] <OndraSter_> because avr studio 5 can update your device's firmware and it cannot be used with avr studio 4 anymore without having it reflashed (probably can be done from bootloader, but I have never tried it...)
[12:14:03] <_abc_> Varies. Anything from homebrew improved STK200 clone to commercial usb STK500 compatible
[12:14:21] <_abc_> No, I do not use anything that can be updated by studio
[12:14:38] <_abc_> OndraSter_: but thanks for the tip. That sucks.
[12:14:44] <OndraSter_> np
[12:14:59] <_abc_> I like the STK200 clone method most.
[12:15:20] <_abc_> Simple and straightforward. Depends on parallel port but we still get boards like that here so it's okay.
[12:15:34] <OndraSter_> hehe parallel port
[12:15:38] <_abc_> yeah
[12:16:23] <_abc_> Asrock borards for example, all the usual things plus one serial and one parallel. The parallel is on a 2x12 IDC pin header so you supply your own ribbon cable. Works great.
[12:16:23] <OndraSter_> I ordered AVR Dragon yesterday
[12:16:29] <_abc_> *baords
[12:16:32] <_abc_> *boards
[12:16:35] <_abc_> Damn I am tired
[12:16:49] <OndraSter_> yeah, I have just one serial port on my board... SuperIO chip is stripped :D
[12:16:51] <Steffanx> nap nap _abc_
[12:16:51] <OndraSter_> hehe
[12:17:03] <_abc_> Steffanx: hush I have more large files to d/l
[12:17:37] <Steffanx> You can download without being awake..
[12:17:45] <_abc_> Anyway if you are looking for a board with parallel and serial on it look at Asrock
[12:18:04] <_abc_> Also rock bottom prices and great variety of choice for ram and cpu size/speed etc
[12:18:18] <OndraSter_> can you access parallel port from software (without any 3rd party libs) on Windows 7 64bit systems?
[12:18:25] <_abc_> Steffanx: sure wget works fine here but I have to check things from time to time.
[12:18:32] <OndraSter_> you can send data through serial port from C# just fine
[12:18:48] <_abc_> OndraSter_: I don't know. I think that all XP drivers work, 7 has a special compat layer for this
[12:19:00] <OndraSter_> oh ok
[12:19:25] <_abc_> So things like ponyprog and other toys which need parallel work fine.
[12:19:26] <OndraSter_> I prefer using FTDI FT232RL to convert from USB to serial (it creates virtual serial port) and connect that to atmega target :)
[12:20:01] <_abc_> Yes that also works but FT232 is only worth your bucks if you use it only for bit banging. PL2303 is one third the price and works as well for serial data only.
[12:20:16] <OndraSter_> ah
[12:20:32] <OndraSter_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-New-FTDI-FT232RL-IC-Chip-SSOP-28-i7197-/270831962843?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0ed7cadb
[12:20:33] <OndraSter_> :P
[12:21:00] <_abc_> By the way, the Wincupl I installed today produces a PDF file which is actually PDIF, a JSON like format related to EDIF. What programs open that?
[12:21:19] <_abc_> OndraSter_: check the price for bulk PL2303 on flwabay
[12:21:23] <_abc_> *fleabay
[12:21:36] <OndraSter_> wow, never heard of fleabay o_O
[12:21:40] <_abc_> hehe
[12:21:43] <_abc_> ebay
[12:21:48] <OndraSter_> oh lol
[12:21:52] <_abc_> :)
[12:22:01] <_abc_> flea market, flea bay...
[12:22:30] <OndraSter_> yay $14
[12:22:37] <OndraSter_> for 10 pieces?!
[12:22:38] <_abc_> 100 pcs maybe
[12:22:51] <OndraSter_> that's cool
[12:22:53] <OndraSter_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-PL-2303HX-HLF-SSOP-28-2303HX-SSOP28-USB-Serial-Bridge-Controller-/260928835799?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc09210d7
[12:23:12] <_abc_> sure
[12:23:20] <_abc_> There is someone selling lots of 100
[12:23:32] <_abc_> A complete adapter with USB plug on it costs $3 from ebay
[12:23:32] <OndraSter_> I need two lol
[12:23:35] <OndraSter_> yeah
[12:24:01] <_abc_> I bought two adapters for a lot of money some time ago, and I made them last
[12:24:06] <_abc_> Now they are only a few pennies
[12:24:29] <_abc_> OndraSter_: you may also like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-TSSOP28-SSOP28-DIP28-Adapter-Board-PL2303HX-y-/320695252687?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaaed36cf
[12:24:45] <OndraSter_> "Shipping: Not Available to Czech Republic" :D
[12:24:48] <OndraSter_> yeah
[12:24:52] <OndraSter_> I have here adapters
[12:25:19] <_abc_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PL-2303HX-PL2303-USB-Serial-RS232-BRIDGE-CONTROLLER-IC-SSOP-28-NEW-/120827877992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c21e71a68 OndraSter_
[12:25:32] <OndraSter_> I bought 4 ft232rl for $10
[12:25:37] <_abc_> OndraSter_: Do you have special cards for paypal use only in Czech?
[12:25:46] <OndraSter_> we can use paypal just fine
[12:25:55] <OndraSter_> but often people on ebay do not ship here
[12:25:56] <OndraSter_> from china
[12:25:57] <OndraSter_> no idea why
[12:26:03] <_abc_> No, I mean, special card so paypal cannot gouge you.
[12:26:05] <OndraSter_> oh
[12:26:07] <OndraSter_> nope
[12:26:11] <OndraSter_> VISAs and such
[12:26:21] <_abc_> Card disconnected from your bank account and used only for paypal
[12:26:28] <OndraSter_> ohhh, just some banks
[12:26:31] <OndraSter_> not mine as far as I know
[12:26:39] <OndraSter_> my acount is on $6 or so anyway lol
[12:26:39] <_abc_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PC-PL2303HX-PL2303-USB-RS232-SSOP-28-IC-A238-/170715330930?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bf6d3972 ...
[12:26:54] <OndraSter_> wow
[12:26:59] <_abc_> yeah but if you are into this more seriously and the account freezes for any reason you have a problem
[12:27:31] <_abc_> We want to avoid that situation. Plenty of horror stories out there, and once it is connected with your account, any fart in China can cause you banking problems where you are.
[12:27:50] <OndraSter_> how come? I thought that you have to login to paypal to confirm the payment
[12:28:25] <_abc_> Sure I mean if for example you pay and something does not ship, or you ask for a refund and try to block payment or such, a conflict arises. Then paypal will lock down your account.
[12:28:36] <_abc_> Until that is solved your account stays locked.
[12:28:45] <OndraSter_> huh? never happened
[12:28:54] <OndraSter_> I filled few times "not received item"
[12:28:57] <_abc_> If you wanted a led for Easter it's okay. If you need to get parts every 3 days it's a headache you don't want
[12:29:00] <OndraSter_> the account on ebay was even closed
[12:29:10] <OndraSter_> the sellers
[12:29:13] <Bushman> ave
[12:29:17] <OndraSter_> ey Bushman
[12:29:25] <_abc_> Okay, I can't afford the risk to fumble the account because of a remote mishap beyond my control.
[12:29:27] <OndraSter_> I don't remember if I bought anythign while I was waiting for their reply
[12:29:58] <_abc_> OndraSter_: well they locked theirs, so if the mail loses a package and you are a seller, then you are no longer selling anything for a while.
[12:30:04] <_abc_> Businesses cannot work that way.
[12:30:06] <Bushman> sup?
[12:30:11] <OndraSter_> oh I am not selling anything
[12:30:18] <_abc_> Bushman: Discussing paypal problems.
[12:30:23] <OndraSter_> I sell it on local ebay copy :)
[12:30:26] <_abc_> OndraSter_: Well you might. I plan to.
[12:30:35] <_abc_> OndraSter_: what's it called and is it okay?
[12:30:39] <OndraSter_> aukro.cz
[12:30:41] <OndraSter_> it is fine
[12:30:45] <OndraSter_> as long as you use common sense
[12:30:53] <OndraSter_> I was planning too, but shipping for anything from here to abroad is outrageous
[12:30:57] <OndraSter_> anything bigger than RAM stick or CPU :P
[12:31:01] <_abc_> I don't understand Czech language. I will see that with google translate
[12:31:04] <OndraSter_> haha
[12:31:08] <OndraSter_> there is not much stuff compared to ebay
[12:31:19] <_abc_> Do you have craigslist in Czech?
[12:31:28] <OndraSter_> never checked
[12:31:44] <_abc_> OndraSter_: Anyway I am in .ro and there are several auction sites here but I do not trust them.
[12:31:52] <OndraSter_> ah romania
[12:34:59] <Bushman> hmm...
[12:35:06] <Bushman> there are problems with paypal?
[12:35:15] <Bushman> didn't noticed any (yet)
[12:35:29] <_abc_> Bushman: It occurs when you sell and something happens to the package
[12:35:43] <_abc_> Or if you withhold sending because payment is not okay
[12:35:45] <_abc_> etc
[12:35:54] <Bushman> mhm
[12:36:13] <Bushman> good thing i was only buying stuff
[12:36:53] <Bushman> or rather donating in exchange for digital art :P
[12:37:04] <OndraSter_> haha
[12:37:12] <OndraSter_> I am still wondering those $.99 prices
[12:37:18] <OndraSter_> or even $1.99 for stuff
[12:37:23] <Bushman> tho i've bought one thing via paypal
[12:37:38] <OndraSter_> if the board costs $.1, parts $.5, some work $.1
[12:37:43] <OndraSter_> you are on 0.7
[12:37:49] <OndraSter_> shipping at least .5
[12:38:04] <OndraSter_> and now you have to pay people that worked on it ?!
[12:38:30] <Bushman> anyway, the thing never made it to paypal, the guy retured the money himself (via paypal)
[12:38:34] <_abc_> OndraSter_: don't try to understand. Global Economy means you buy stuff from countries where labor is much less that 1€/hour
[12:38:37] <_abc_> *than
[12:38:41] <OndraSter_> sure
[12:38:44] <OndraSter_> but still
[12:38:49] <OndraSter_> the boss has to make some money too
[12:39:06] <_abc_> OndraSter_: look at smd parts prices. They are so low that you can see that they simply relate to raw material weight.
[12:39:30] <Bushman> i've bought an old game, colectioner's piece. it never came to poland (sent from UK)
[12:39:43] <_abc_> OndraSter_: frequently the boss is a single employee sitting in a tiny apartment in Asia, can be a student or some other type of person who needs some extra income.
[12:39:59] <_abc_> Bushman: Problems with customs maybe?
[12:40:05] <Bushman> the guy didn't make problems, he just send me the money back
[12:40:09] <_abc_> Bushman: is tme popular in .pl? It is here in .ro
[12:40:28] <Bushman> Trans Multisort Electronics?
[12:40:39] <Bushman> yea, me and my dad use it
[12:40:40] <_abc_> Bushman: Yes, that is a seller problem on paypal, if you want to sell again, you have to be 'good' with problems
[12:40:46] <_abc_> Bushman: yes that tme
[12:41:15] <Bushman> it's not cheap but it's fast and reliable (almost)
[12:41:21] <_abc_> Not cheap?!
[12:41:23] <_abc_> omg
[12:41:28] <_abc_> Okay who do you use for cheap?
[12:41:46] <Bushman> yup, TME in poland is more expensive than local stores
[12:42:02] <_abc_> Weird. It is cheaper than many local stores here...
[12:42:13] <Bushman> but we still use it if we need to be sure what we buy and when we get it
[12:42:54] <_abc_> Yes they tend to deliver.
[12:43:11] <Bushman> my dad ordered some power mosfet transistors and they just poped when the amp went 25% of the power
[12:43:23] <_abc_> Heh fake parts plague
[12:43:32] <_abc_> Everyone is hit by that sooner or later
[12:43:40] <Bushman> he called TME and they didn't even ask for details, they just sent him new batch from different suply
[12:43:47] <_abc_> Exactly
[12:44:00] <_abc_> Also part of being good with problems, as a seller
[12:45:00] <Bushman> local stores have a sign "no returns for semiconductors"
[12:45:19] <Bushman> so it's better to pay more and be sure
[12:45:34] <_abc_> How's the local trade?
[12:45:42] <Bushman> also, with small amounts the package is often more expensive than the parts itself
[12:45:44] <_abc_> Poor quality? Good service?
[12:46:10] <_abc_> Bushman: Think about semi makers who ship samples worth $50 for free from Indonesia or Thailand
[12:46:36] <Bushman> well, shit happens everywhere. the local electronic stores have various quality so we have our favorites and not often fall back to the others
[12:47:24] <_abc_> You are in Warsaw or a big city? Is there like a location where all the stores are, or...?
[12:48:12] <Bushman> for example we have a store where my dad does most of his purchases, he can even take a box of UTP cable, use as much as he want and return the rest and pay only for what he used
[12:48:33] <Bushman> no need to worry you will buy to much or not enough
[12:48:36] <Bushman> :P
[12:48:48] <_abc_> Sure but that is a personal relationship, much valued client, etc etc
[12:49:14] <Bushman> _abc_: well, i live in silesia
[12:49:19] <_abc_> Ah
[12:49:29] <Bushman> you know polands layout??
[12:49:30] <_abc_> I see a lot of the electronics firms are from Lodz
[12:49:42] <Bushman> where are you from?
[12:49:54] <OndraSter_> we have got here few shops in Prague
[12:50:03] <OndraSter_> GME and GES, GME is bigger but more expensive usually
[12:50:17] <OndraSter_> but I have it closer to GES
[12:50:20] <Bushman> _abc_: where are you from?
[12:50:27] <_abc_> Bushman: Bucharest
[12:50:34] <Bushman> isc
[12:50:35] <OndraSter_> if I go from school to subway - 8 minutes. If I go from school to subway through GES - 10 minutes + the time spent there :P
[12:50:37] <_abc_> OndraSter_: Oh I confused you with Bushman
[12:50:39] <Bushman> *ic
[12:50:43] <_abc_> OndraSter_: I mean Czech with Poland
[12:50:46] <OndraSter_> oh lol
[12:50:55] <OndraSter_> I ordered from farnell yesterday
[12:51:04] <OndraSter_> through czech company that directly sells their stuff
[12:51:10] <OndraSter_> for the same price
[12:51:13] <OndraSter_> shipping is less :P
[12:51:36] <_abc_> Bushman: my knowledge of Poland is very very limited.
[12:51:50] <Bushman> i have atleast 5 electronic stores in a 20km radius (probably more)
[12:51:58] <_abc_> That is good
[12:51:59] <Bushman> i live in Bytom city
[12:52:10] <Bushman> so i can go either way and find one
[12:52:19] <OndraSter_> +1 for using km rather miles lol
[12:52:21] <_abc_> Hm, where is that? And do the shops have a good selection of modern parts and mcus and the like?
[12:52:33] <_abc_> OndraSter_: Poland is metric...
[12:52:50] <Bushman> OndraSter_: i'm polish, why would i use such a silly unit as mile?
[12:52:51] <Bushman> ;>
[12:52:51] <OndraSter_> just as whole world except few weird countries (as USA, UK etc)
[12:52:53] <OndraSter_> :P
[12:53:05] <Bushman> UK is bi
[12:53:11] <OndraSter_> I am used to listen to ft, inch, miles from other IRC channels
[12:53:18] <_abc_> OndraSter_: USA is metric by ANSI standards. The inch has been defined as exactly 2.54mm in the 1950s or so.
[12:53:18] <mapee> evening
[12:53:19] <OndraSter_> so this is rather nice surprise lol
[12:53:32] <_abc_> lol @uk is bi
[12:53:44] <OndraSter_> _abc_, but 1 ft != 10 or 100 or 1000 inch, just as 1 mile is not 10, 100, 1000, ... ft :P
[12:53:46] <Bushman> it is!
[12:53:47] <OndraSter_> that's why metric ftw
[12:53:55] <Bushman> they know how to use metric
[12:54:09] <_abc_> OndraSter_: nah, it is used to train American children's brains from an early age
[12:54:15] <_abc_> That and fractions...
[12:54:17] <OndraSter_> hehe
[12:54:34] <_abc_> 17/63 inchh thread anyone?
[12:54:42] <OndraSter_> wouldn't it be simpler----- oh never mind, we are talking about America here, they prefer doing stuff weirdly and then invent simplifying things (automatic gearbox etc) :P
[12:54:50] <Bushman> i know fractions but i have no idea which spanner to use
[12:54:56] <_abc_> hehe
[12:55:12] <_abc_> AWG sizes are evil
[12:55:18] <_abc_> American Wire Gauge...
[12:55:22] <Bushman> if i take some caliper i can know what metric spanner to use right away
[12:55:30] <_abc_> No connection between the number and the area or diameter
[12:55:36] <OndraSter_> hehe
[12:55:45] <Bushman> if i would do that in inches i need to figure out what fraction of an inch is that
[12:55:48] <_abc_> Bushman: with a inch graduated caliper you know
[12:56:11] <_abc_> But giving things in 1/64 inches is evil
[12:56:34] <_abc_> Anyway, it works for them, so who cares
[12:56:35] <Bushman> i rather divide everything by 10/100/100
[12:56:40] <OndraSter_> yap
[12:56:43] <Bushman> *1000
[12:56:43] <_abc_> Okay, do that
[12:56:44] <OndraSter_> just clock is done weird :(
[12:57:03] <OndraSter_> 60 seconds in one minute, 60 minutes in one hour, 24 hours in one day ?!
[12:57:10] <_abc_> OndraSter_: The Frenchies did try to introduce a day with decimal subdivisions by Guillotine, did not work
[12:57:16] <OndraSter_> haha
[12:57:21] <Bushman> yea, good thing that US/UK don't have "imperial time units" XD
[12:57:25] <OndraSter_> :D
[12:57:33] <_abc_> I am not kiddng. There are some surviving examples.
[12:57:46] <_abc_> And time units are not imperial, they date back way more
[12:57:52] <Bushman> 24/60/60 is stupid enough for me, if i would have to learn another system for time i would pop
[12:57:59] <OndraSter_> :D
[12:58:09] <OndraSter_> talking about popping, anyone into Photonicinduction? :P
[12:58:19] <_abc_> 360 day years were first used in Mesopotamia, the Assyrians used base 12 for many things, and it sort of goes back to way back then
[12:58:37] <_abc_> By way of navigation and map making
[12:59:09] <Bushman> what normal person uses base 12?
[12:59:23] <_abc_> Much later they divided circles by 60 (also base 12) after dividing by 12, 24, 36 ... as the need for precision increased.
[12:59:57] <_abc_> Bushman: I don't know. It has something to do with mythology. Also if you need to count on fingers and ... feet, you have 12 digits total...
[13:00:26] <_abc_> Also 12 is a nice number for dividing things equally into many fractions. 2,3,4...
[13:00:37] <_abc_> And that is very important in commerce
[13:01:11] <Bushman> well, i can understand why inuit used base 5
[13:01:24] <Bushman> but 12?
[13:01:27] <_abc_> the other hand is in the mouth of the polar bear?
[13:01:45] <_abc_> Bushman: 12 is very nice and 36 more so
[13:01:53] <Bushman> no, the glowes had only thumb and the rest of the palm
[13:02:03] <_abc_> heh
[13:02:04] <Bushman> that gives 0 1 2 3 4
[13:03:28] <_abc_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_12 see under Origins, Babylonians (Mesopotamians)
[13:03:41] <Bushman> generally i can understand practically ANY base system but for the fact i have 10 fingers base 10 is most comfortable to me
[13:04:09] <Bushman> (STFU americans, we call the thumb "a finger")
[13:05:11] <_abc_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_numerals how about 60 :)
[13:07:12] <_abc_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal more
[13:09:33] <Bushman> die
[13:09:39] <Bushman> :D
[13:10:00] <_abc_> heh
[13:10:15] <_abc_> Well Gauss advocated using base PI for many things
[13:10:30] <_abc_> That would have made trigonometry super easy. Or was it Euler.
[13:11:30] <Bushman> base pi? how does that work?
[13:12:14] <Bushman> pi isn't a natural number... how do i make a base of it?
[13:12:47] <Bushman> 0, 1, 2, 3, 3.14.......
[13:12:49] <Bushman> ;>
[13:12:50] <OndraSter_> who has counted to the last digit of PI? :P
[13:13:01] <OndraSter_> excep chuck
[13:13:06] <Bushman> chuck norris
[13:13:06] <OndraSter_> except
[13:13:08] <Bushman> :(
[13:13:12] <Bushman> me!
[13:13:18] <OndraSter_> hehe
[13:13:40] <Bushman> tho i don't remember what was it...
[13:13:48] <Bushman> it was something between 0 and 9
[13:13:56] <_abc_> Bushman: think about people who need to work with the length and area of round shapes all day
[13:13:57] <Bushman> i'm almost sure
[13:14:07] <_abc_> Bushman: They would prefer their unit to be equal to pi
[13:14:18] <_abc_> And radians
[13:14:23] <OndraSter_> gl with that :D
[13:14:27] <Bushman> hmm...
[13:14:31] <_abc_> EE Engineers like base pi so much they use Smith charts :)
[13:14:36] <Bushman> my dad is coding a compas
[13:14:50] <Bushman> bought some IS and is doing the program to read that
[13:15:00] <Bushman> he managed to get a steady reading
[13:15:01] <_abc_> hope rf?
[13:15:07] <_abc_> compass and barometer ic
[13:15:12] <Bushman> except it's ~60 degrees off
[13:15:16] <Bushman> xd
[13:15:17] <_abc_> hehe
[13:15:29] <_abc_> Bushman: tell him to remove the screws and nails from the desk...
[13:15:31] <Bushman> yea, compass and barometer
[13:15:36] <Bushman> how did you know?
[13:15:46] <_abc_> Bushman: I had my eyes on that part for a long time
[13:15:54] <_abc_> Just no time to get things done with it
[13:16:30] <Bushman> he told me he will do the tests in open sace when he will make the board for that
[13:16:39] <_abc_> yes you have to
[13:16:40] <Bushman> right now he just wanted the math to be ok
[13:16:51] <_abc_> hehe
[13:17:01] <Bushman> and it seems to be ok
[13:17:07] <_abc_> The math is useless without lots of correction factors
[13:17:24] <Bushman> except he didn't included declination and probably has the quarters mixed up
[13:17:25] <_abc_> Anyway good luck with that
[13:17:31] <Bushman> but he's aware of that
[13:17:44] <_abc_> 60 degrees off sounds more like an error in triangle solving
[13:17:48] <Bushman> he wanted a sensor for antena rotor
[13:17:58] <_abc_> Aiee lots of metal there
[13:18:08] <Bushman> _abc_: on a desk full of metal tols?
[13:18:11] <_abc_> Anyway thanks for the chat
[13:18:12] <Bushman> *tools
[13:18:13] <_abc_> Bushman: hehe
[13:18:47] <Bushman> i'm quite sure he just needs to fix the quarters and add declination
[13:19:29] <Bushman> and i was saying ~60 cause i never actually tested it against geographical north
[13:20:03] <Bushman> that was more like an aproximation based on google's satelite image of my building
[13:20:05] <Bushman> :P
[13:20:39] <Bushman> if it goes for the antenas, most of them are aluminium
[13:21:01] <Bushman> also, it will be installed on extension
[13:21:39] <Bushman> atleast 1m above the last antena
[13:22:01] <Bushman> my terminal/screen combo is going nuts
[13:22:19] <_abc_> Someone is sending a virus your way? >:~
[13:22:38] <Bushman> i keep getting paste warnings in irssi and few seconds ago my terminal just quit
[13:22:52] <Bushman> like if the connection was "normally" terminated
[13:23:25] <Bushman> also the server seems to be stressed
[13:23:49] <Bushman> i have a keyboard lag and pings are high permanently
[13:24:06] <Bushman> i think i need to contack lucke and ask wtf is going on with his server
[14:15:24] <amee2k> < fow> "Today’s master thief comes from the City of London, where he attempted to rob a Halifax bank on Cheapside, only to accidentally hand the teller his gun instead of a bag for the money."
[14:15:29] <amee2k> ...
[14:19:32] <mrfrenzy> haha
[14:20:24] <amee2k> my thought exactly
[14:27:23] <_abc_> amee2k: lol
[15:26:47] <OndraSter_> huh I am running into weird issue in AVR studio 5
[15:26:52] <OndraSter_> during compiling:
[15:26:52] <OndraSter_> Error 47 syntax error, unexpected '\n', expecting SYMBOL or FUNCTION or REGDEF C:\Users\Ondra\Documents\AVRStudio\matrixled\firmware_native\helper.inc 1 0 firmware_native
[15:26:59] <OndraSter_> on line 1, column 0 ?!
[15:27:06] <OndraSter_> the file begins with normal header
[15:27:06] <OndraSter_> * helper.asm
[15:27:07] <OndraSter_> *
[15:27:09] <OndraSter_> oops
[15:27:11] <OndraSter_> /*
[15:27:11] <OndraSter_> * helper.asm
[15:27:11] <OndraSter_> *
[15:27:29] <OndraSter_> I tried hexeditor... nope, no bad stuff in the beginning
[16:01:15] <timemage> OndraSter_, have odd line terminate?
[16:01:26] <OndraSter_> nah, normal 0D 0A
[16:02:56] <timemage> hmm. i wish i had it installed here i would look at the files involved.
[16:04:38] <timemage> OndraSter_, i'm not used to seeing /* */ in assembly files.
[16:04:52] <OndraSter_> it works in AVR studio fine
[16:04:55] <OndraSter_> it is default header even
[16:04:56] <timemage> OndraSter_, ; is often a comment character in asm.
[16:05:11] <OndraSter_> I know
[16:05:14] <OndraSter_> one lined comments are ;
[16:05:17] <OndraSter_> in my project
[16:05:21] <OndraSter_> the weird thing is
[16:05:25] <OndraSter_> I have there two projects in the one solution
[16:05:51] <timemage> solution meaning workspace?
[16:05:51] <OndraSter_> and I copypasted the files
[16:05:57] <OndraSter_> and they do not work when copypasted
[16:05:58] <OndraSter_> yeah
[16:06:32] <OndraSter_> some weird issue eh
[16:10:31] <timemage> couldn't say.
[16:10:45] <OndraSter_> huh
[16:11:12] <OndraSter_> I commented
[16:11:12] <OndraSter_> ; .include "macros.inc"
[16:11:16] <OndraSter_> and guess what
[16:11:23] <OndraSter_> same error, this time in the main .asm file :P
[16:11:26] <OndraSter_> same error
[16:12:06] <OndraSter_> oh lol
[16:12:09] <OndraSter_> the previous file had an error
[16:12:11] <OndraSter_> there was just .def
[16:12:16] <OndraSter_> and nothing else
[16:12:17] <OndraSter_> on the last line
[16:12:18] <OndraSter_> lol
[16:12:20] <OndraSter_> stupid error
[16:12:29] <timemage> hmm,
[16:12:34] <timemage> well, that thing happens a lot actually.
[16:12:44] <timemage> you understand why right?
[16:12:57] <OndraSter_> yeah
[16:13:02] <timemage> ok.
[16:13:05] <OndraSter_> it was expecting something after that
[16:13:14] <OndraSter_> since include actually literally takes the file and includes it there
[16:13:22] <timemage> yup.
[16:15:24] <OndraSter_> I took my project from this workspace and moved it to avr studio 4 to separate project (as I wanted to test it out on atmega32 which I have at home, before the board is finished and soldered)
[16:15:28] <OndraSter_> now I am putting it back
[16:20:21] <OndraSter_> w00t and I have just found out why my serial port was making problems on higher speeds... I accidentaly set wrong UBRRH!
[16:20:28] <OndraSter_> that'S what happens, when you set two registers with one value
[16:20:30] <OndraSter_> and then you change it
[17:08:14] <jadew> any idea if you can do on chip debugging with usbtiny?
[17:09:16] <specing> you can't
[17:09:51] <jadew> too bad
[17:10:26] <specing> jadew: I find it best to modularise programs and write as much as possible on your computer
[17:11:29] <jadew> it's not such a big issue, it would have been nice tho
[17:12:00] <specing> As far as I know, rikusW is reverse-engineering the dW protocol
[17:13:01] <jadew> ah, it's not public, got it
[17:13:30] <Steffanx> specing afaik he isn't anymore
[17:14:13] <Steffanx> The 'specifications' are online, that's all
[17:15:02] <jadew> I guess someone will do it in the end
[17:15:59] <jadew> btw, should I expect the controller to heat up if I run an empty loop?
[17:16:29] <OndraSter_> atmega gets hot only when you put vcc on the gnd pin and gnd on the vcc pin :P
[17:16:37] <jadew> :)
[17:16:54] <jadew> good to know
[17:18:26] <jadew> where should I look in the specs to figure out what voltage I need to apply on a pin to get a logic high?
[17:18:38] <OndraSter_> datasheet
[17:18:41] <OndraSter_> voltage levels
[17:18:45] <OndraSter_> near the end
[17:19:56] <specing> !seen rikusW
[17:19:57] <tobbor> RikusW was last seen in #avr on Jan 06 13:20 2012
[17:20:09] <Steffanx> Local time..
[17:20:33] <specing> RUE!!!
[17:20:47] * specing smacks rue_house with a large trout
[17:20:48] <jadew> OndraSter_, thanks, but I can't find that, I found electrical characteristics, but it's not entirely clear to me which of the voltages in the table is of interrest to me
[17:21:14] <OndraSter_> a sec
[17:21:19] <jadew> I guess Vih
[17:21:26] <OndraSter_> yap
[17:21:58] <jadew> it says Min 0.6Vcc and max Vcc +0.5
[17:22:00] <OndraSter_> aka 0.6Vcc (at least on atmega128a)
[17:22:02] <OndraSter_> yeah
[17:22:03] <jadew> how is taht possible?
[17:22:08] <jadew> max is lower than min?
[17:22:11] <OndraSter_> uh
[17:22:13] <OndraSter_> 0.6 * Vcc
[17:22:16] <OndraSter_> so if Vcc = 5V
[17:22:24] <OndraSter_> Vih = 3V
[17:22:28] <OndraSter_> 5*0,6
[17:22:35] <OndraSter_> the minimum for HIGH level
[17:22:48] <OndraSter_> and the maximum (before chip burning?) is Vcc + 0.5V = 5,5V
[17:23:30] <jadew> why didn't they say 3V?
[17:23:44] <OndraSter_> because you can power atmega from 3.3V power source
[17:23:54] <OndraSter_> and Vih = 1,98V then
[17:24:01] <OndraSter_> some go even way lower
[17:24:04] <jadew> I see
[17:24:15] <jadew> now, why is Max lower than Min?
[17:24:25] <jadew> Min is 0.6, Max is 0.5
[17:24:30] <OndraSter_> it is NOT 0.6V
[17:24:34] <OndraSter_> it is 0.6*power supply
[17:24:54] <jadew> still, 0.6 * X > 0.5 * X
[17:25:05] <OndraSter_> 0,6*x < x+0,5
[17:25:11] <OndraSter_> read it once again :P
[17:25:47] <jadew> ah
[17:25:50] <jadew> now it makes sense
[17:25:56] <jadew> X + Max
[17:25:57] <jadew> got it
[17:25:59] <OndraSter_> yap
[17:26:16] <tomatto_> hi
[17:26:16] <tobbor> tomatto_! like, totally tell us about the project!
[17:26:45] <tomatto_> tobbor: about what project?
[17:27:53] <grummund> gets 'em every time
[17:28:46] <tomatto_> when i have connected rs232 to ttl converter to the avr, programmer can't comunicate with processor
[17:30:53] <grummund> Note 2: "Min" means the lowest value where the pin is guaranteed to be read as high
[17:32:43] <tomatto_> without converter, its good. it's first time i see it
[17:33:30] <Kevin`> tomatto_: are you interpreting space as low or high in the avr software? or are you using the hardware uart?
[17:36:06] <tomatto_> Kevin`: i am using hardware usart of atmega8
[17:36:44] <tomatto_> Kevin`: it's hapening when no program was uploaded, too
[17:36:47] <Kevin`> the hardware uart should be inverted from rs232 and only work with a transceiver (or at least an inverter)
[17:37:12] <Kevin`> tomatto_: but it doesn't talk to the uart with no program uploaded
[17:37:39] <ben1066> This goal is quite releastic isn't it, read resistive humidity sensor, ds180b(or something, the common one) and a resistive pressure sensor
[17:37:45] <ben1066> and send the results over serial to a pc
[17:37:51] <ben1066> also a lcd
[17:38:05] <tomatto_> Kevin`: but with pluged in rs232, programing is not possible
[17:38:11] <Kevin`> ben1066: yeah, that should be pretty easy
[17:38:24] <Kevin`> tomatto_: why?
[17:38:30] <ben1066> Kevin`: Thought so, my biggest issue will be temperature compensating the humditiy :P
[17:38:52] <tomatto_> Kevin`: that is what i am asking around and around several hours
[17:39:43] <Kevin`> tomatto_: well, rs232 has a 24v voltage swing and would normally screw up microcontrollers unless your port is one of the newer non-compliant low voltage ones ;p
[17:39:54] <Kevin`> but you know that, right?
[17:40:23] <tomatto_> Kevin`: i said before, i am using rs232 to ttl bazmek
[17:40:45] <Kevin`> the uart and spi pins are seperate on your avr, right?
[17:41:10] <tomatto_> yes
[17:41:46] <ben1066> Since when have we had low voltage serial ports?
[17:41:56] <tomatto_> Kevin`: uart is PD0,PD1 and SPI is PB3-5
[17:42:03] <Kevin`> ben1066: since laptops didn't want to include a -12v rail
[17:42:27] <ben1066> so laptop serial doesnt work with most things?
[17:42:45] <Kevin`> I think a lot of desktop boards do the same
[17:42:51] <Kevin`> and it DOES work with most things
[17:43:06] <ben1066> how...
[17:43:25] <OndraSter_> tomatto_, hah, I was like "wtf is bazmek"... then I looked onto your DNS... Ahoj z Prahy :D
[17:43:27] <ben1066> heh, my mobo has serial, but only on an internal header
[17:43:31] <ben1066> and lpt
[17:43:34] <OndraSter_> ben1066, all the new ones do
[17:43:36] <OndraSter_> oh, just serial
[17:43:39] <OndraSter_> no parallel anymore
[17:43:40] <OndraSter_> at least for me
[17:43:48] <ben1066> Its not on the IO port
[17:43:48] <Kevin`> by "most things" having something resembling ttl voltage level inputs that are tolerant of high voltage instead of requiring rs232 levels
[17:44:26] <OndraSter_> tomatto_, I have probably missed something, but does your atmega have actually burned some kind of bootloader?
[17:44:46] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: i wanted to write thingy, but i didn't remember it... Ahoj z Nachoda :D
[17:45:21] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: i haven't bootloader
[17:45:45] <OndraSter_> oh
[17:45:52] <ben1066> You need an avrisp to burn a bootloader
[17:45:53] <OndraSter_> you can't directly programm the atmega without bootloader through UART
[17:45:54] <ben1066> or a jtagice
[17:45:56] <OndraSter_> yap
[17:46:40] <tomatto_> i am programing atmega via SPI, usart is only for comunication with others
[17:46:46] <OndraSter_> oh ok
[17:47:00] <OndraSter_> ah I now understand
[17:47:19] <OndraSter_> do you have something like USB <> UART?
[17:47:30] <OndraSter_> like PL2303, FTDI FT232RL
[17:47:47] <OndraSter_> I found them.... easier than easy to use for this stuff
[17:47:49] <tomatto_> but when i have connected something to usart, spi doesn't responding
[17:48:06] <ben1066> they use the same bus dont they...
[17:48:10] <OndraSter_> nah
[17:48:18] <ben1066> Hm, thats some other micro then :P
[17:48:24] <OndraSter_> what is your programmer?
[17:48:32] <tomatto_> i have pl2303 connected i think, it is
[17:48:44] <OndraSter_> so it is in USB and not RS232?
[17:48:46] <ben1066> thats not a programmer...
[17:49:07] <tomatto_> usb<->rs232<->ttl :)
[17:49:15] <ben1066> What...
[17:49:22] <OndraSter_> uhh
[17:49:27] <OndraSter_> pl2303 has TTL levels
[17:49:41] <tomatto_> yeah, but inverted or something
[17:49:55] <tomatto_> max232 is correcting it up
[17:50:14] <OndraSter_> nope, it has normal TTL
[17:50:17] <OndraSter_> raw 2303
[17:50:28] <OndraSter_> I have one smalll USB stick with PL2303 on it
[17:50:34] <OndraSter_> used it to debug kernel for router
[17:50:35] <tomatto_> ou, this is HL-340
[17:50:59] <OndraSter_> ah
[17:51:28] <OndraSter_> when you connect ISP and UART -> UART works, ISP does not
[17:51:33] <OndraSter_> when you connect just ISP, it works?
[17:51:45] <ben1066> well, just remove usart when not using it?
[17:51:45] <OndraSter_> which device are you powering it from?
[17:51:50] <ben1066> i know it makes no sense..but still
[17:52:03] <OndraSter_> I had problems with USART when JTAGging
[17:52:13] <ben1066> I dont have a jtagice D:
[17:52:14] <OndraSter_> sometimes worked, sometimes had to be disconnected before it uploaded the firmware to the chip and started stepping
[17:52:19] <OndraSter_> then I could connect it
[17:52:21] <OndraSter_> and use it just fin
[17:52:22] <OndraSter_> e
[17:52:26] <OndraSter_> and then I fucked it up completely :D
[17:52:41] <OndraSter_> I think i will grab the atmega and the pl2303 from it and find out which one is burnt
[17:53:07] <OndraSter_> actually, the PL2303 is not burnt for sure
[17:53:08] <tomatto_> when i connect just ISP it works, nothing else. when i connect just UART it behave weird, only when atmega transmiting something periodicaly, it can receiving
[17:53:10] <OndraSter_> maybe some fuse
[17:53:33] <tomatto_> atmega8 hasn't jtag
[17:53:48] <ben1066> are you sure the reset isnt being pulled by the isp
[17:53:48] <OndraSter_> debugWire?
[17:53:51] <tomatto_> fuses are ok D4 and D9, like others working
[17:53:53] <ben1066> Ive had that issue
[17:54:58] <tomatto_> ben1066: i have 10k resistor from reset to vcc
[17:55:18] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: i have no idea, i am not using it
[17:55:24] <OndraSter_> won't help
[17:55:29] <OndraSter_> the ISP can still pull it down
[17:55:57] <OndraSter_> brb, time to put the keg back to freezer :D
[17:56:09] <tomatto_> then ISP would work, but don't
[17:56:17] <ben1066> Yea, the ISP likes to pull it down, always disconnect the isp reset pi..hmm true
[17:59:07] <tomatto_> i am going to be pissed. and i don't understand this behaver
[18:00:43] <tomatto_> any other idea?
[18:02:48] <OndraSter_> do you have connected grounds of all the devices
[18:02:49] <OndraSter_> ?
[18:03:56] <tomatto_> yes, i do
[18:04:07] <OndraSter_> okay
[18:05:45] <tomatto_> i am going to think about remove this atmega8 from board and replace with another, but it is tqfp
[18:06:01] <OndraSter_> doubt it is atmega's fault
[18:06:34] <tomatto_> and what if another atmega will make it too ?
[18:06:41] <ben1066> Somehow I managed to kill the uart module on an atmega168
[18:07:04] <ben1066> just the uart
[18:07:28] <OndraSter_> hmm
[18:10:43] <tomatto_> ben1066: do you remember concequencies?
[18:11:12] <tomatto_> cause of
[18:11:22] <ben1066> Uart just didnt work
[18:12:46] <tomatto_> nice...
[18:12:49] <OndraSter_> :D
[18:13:07] <OndraSter_> tomatto_, get that USB UART TTL converter, it is like $3 on eba
[18:13:08] <OndraSter_> y
[18:13:16] <tomatto_> how can i remove tqfp chip without damaging?
[18:13:27] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: i have 2pcs
[18:13:39] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: they work well
[18:13:46] <OndraSter_> so why are you using the USB <> RS 232 :P
[18:13:51] <tomatto_> with other chips
[18:14:29] <tomatto_> OndraSter_: it was first what i see
[18:14:31] <tomatto_> :D
[18:18:17] <OndraSter_> I prefer using something I have to look for 4 minutes longer
[18:18:24] <OndraSter_> but it can nto destroy the target chip so easily :P
[18:18:37] <OndraSter_> I have no idea why the JTAGICE has no power on pins 4 or 7 anymore...
[18:18:41] <OndraSter_> it should've been tied to Vcc
[18:18:43] <OndraSter_> not anymore lol
[18:18:50] <OndraSter_> I think it burnt some trace somewhere
[18:19:12] <OndraSter_> when I accidentaly shorted it... and the polyfuse/USB builtin circuits didn't cut it off
[18:19:28] <OndraSter_> yap, I accidentaly shorted the two (Vcc and GND) wires when I was connecting it lol
[18:19:37] <tomatto_> what are you talking about?
[18:19:37] <OndraSter_> oh well, happens lol
[18:19:42] <OndraSter_> mine problem
[18:20:00] <OndraSter_> I have no idea why my JTAGICE ... *
[18:20:14] <tomatto_> its quite expensive
[18:20:28] <OndraSter_> chinese knockoff $14 :D
[18:20:41] <OndraSter_> I bought AVR Dragon on Thursday
[18:20:47] <OndraSter_> coming on Tuesday
[18:20:48] <OndraSter_> hopefuly
[18:21:55] <tomatto_> ooh
[18:22:24] <specing> < OndraSter_> coming on Tuesday
[18:22:37] <specing> and hoping to burn it by wednesday
[18:22:44] <OndraSter_> yap lol
[18:22:55] <specing> I heard it can explode
[18:22:58] <OndraSter_> I've thought about putting there optoisolators
[18:22:59] <OndraSter_> lol
[19:04:41] <BrentBXR_> is freenote
[19:04:41] <BrentBXR_> lagging to anyone else?
[19:04:41] <BrentBXR_> im getting almost 20sec latency
[19:05:07] <Tom_itx> i don't get freenote at all
[19:05:24] <Tom_itx> it's lazy friday
[19:51:01] <rue_house> who said my name?
[19:51:30] <Tom_itx> rue_house
[19:51:30] <Tom_itx> me
[19:51:55] <Tom_itx> i think i bit more than i can chew
[19:52:48] * rue_house pries open toms mouth and takes a look around
[19:53:37] <Tom_itx> what's POE stand for?
[19:54:19] <rue_house> Power Over Ethernet
[19:54:25] <Tom_itx> ok
[19:54:49] <Tom_itx> wanna hear the wish list?
[19:54:55] <rue_house> or Pesky Other Eletronics
[19:55:10] <rue_house> you doing a Pesky Other Electronics project?
[19:55:18] <Tom_itx> maybe
[19:55:26] <rue_house> do you know how much the poe switches and injectors cost?
[19:55:28] <Tom_itx> i'm in the 'look and see' phase
[19:55:52] * Tom_itx turns the channel
[20:11:22] <Valen> POE stuff is expensive (usually)
[20:11:43] <Valen> i'm wondering if i can push enough power through it to do home automation stuff with
[20:12:14] <amee2k> i briefly looked into it... depending on the variant it can supply up to a few dozen watt
[20:12:28] <amee2k> wikipedia had a pretty cool overview
[20:13:29] <amee2k> i'm not entirely sure what is supposed to be expensive about it... i mean more expensive than just a wall wart, but noone ever said it had to be cheaper than that
[20:14:44] <amee2k> all you really need besides a power injector or switch with PoE support is one of these ID chips that'll negotiate for power, and probably some kind of step-down regulator
[20:15:32] <Tom_itx> like a Micrel KSZ8021RNL?
[20:15:45] <Tom_itx> or is that just a tranciever
[20:16:38] <amee2k> hmm the ones i was looking at were independent of the ethernet MAC
[20:17:14] <amee2k> they put some special biasing on the center taps of the pairs to tell the injector that the device desires PoE power
[20:17:57] <amee2k> it was quite a while ago and i didn't get around to actually use it yet so i don't remember all the details
[20:20:16] <amee2k> the project idea was a digital clock that uses DHCP + NTP to get a time
[20:21:25] <amee2k> at first i wanted to make it use wlan, but since cheap and simple wlan solutions are pretty awkward to find i changed the concept to wired so i could use poe instead
[20:26:42] <Valen> a switch with PoE is like 5X the price of a bare switch generally
[20:27:11] <Valen> and doing "propper" PoE on the client side isn't trivial
[20:28:09] <amee2k> i'd just wait for a while... either the price will go down or it'll disappear from the market again
[20:28:28] <amee2k> same as the tablet market... probably just needs a couple more years to mature
[20:28:56] <Valen> PoE in its proper form has been around for quite some time
[20:29:07] <Valen> its VoIP phones that seem to be driving it
[20:29:12] <Valen> at least thats what i'm using it for
[20:29:41] <Valen> although I'm using cisco stuff because i get it at about a 10% of RRP
[20:29:48] <Valen> not for profit company
[20:30:39] <amee2k> in theory poe would be targeting everything that a) needs a network connection and b) is in the general power range of a wall wart kind of power supply
[20:31:45] <Valen> thing is what other than phones does that?
[20:32:00] <Valen> in the mass market
[20:32:10] <amee2k> i've seen access points and ip webcams with poe too
[20:32:39] <Valen> i have 2 bigass cisco AP's with it
[20:32:47] <amee2k> Valen: i don't mean the professional market needs settling. in an environment where solutions don't need to be standardized or even work at all, all kinds of technologies can have a share
[20:33:08] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/IMAG0075.jpg
[20:33:21] <Valen> expensive chair is expensive lol
[20:33:32] <amee2k> i mean the mass production market where you need to oversize everything by a factor of two so the cheap shit from china that will result at least borderline works in practice
[20:34:27] <amee2k> also, if large quantities are involved, the desire to create robust and cheap solutions is a lot stronger
[20:34:51] <Valen> I just don't think the market is that large
[20:34:56] <Valen> it might get bigger
[20:35:06] <Valen> but its still going to be mainly commercial i think
[20:35:23] <Valen> I have even seen some PoE PC's
[20:35:37] <amee2k> yeah, some thin client terminals
[20:36:00] <amee2k> might, or might not. applications exist, the problem is most people don't have that many devices at home to make it worth it yet
[20:36:19] <amee2k> as long as there are dirt cheap wall warts from china anyway
[20:36:54] <amee2k> i think apple needs to get a PoE product line on the market
[20:37:12] <amee2k> just for people to wake up and look at it, noone needs to actually buy it
[20:37:20] <Valen> well what do you have that is a) wired and b) wall warted
[20:37:36] <Valen> in my house its all switches and modems
[20:38:16] <amee2k> i don't think lots of people have thought much about how the concept could be useful for consumer stuff yet
[20:38:38] <Valen> heh landline telephone the origional POe ;-P
[20:38:46] <amee2k> the applications where it is widespread are relatively vertical markets from what i can see
[20:41:22] <amee2k> anyway, i'm off to bed now
[20:41:27] <amee2k> getting late here
[20:41:31] <amee2k> or rather, early by now >_>
[20:41:32] <Valen> catchya
[20:41:37] <Valen> 1:30 PM here
[20:41:41] <Valen> nice sunny day
[20:41:46] <Valen> gonna go install some blinds
[20:41:48] <amee2k> 3:30 in the morning :)
[20:42:26] <Tom_itx> whiner
[20:42:37] <amee2k> ...
[20:43:53] <Valen> now i've got an hour to wait for some discs to sync
[21:12:57] <paolo7> salve
[21:12:59] <paolo7> ce nessuno
[21:13:41] <paolo7> vorrei sapere come fare per vedere i log di un canale su freenode dato che non risponde nessuno in quel canale
[21:16:16] <Tom_itx> here?
[21:33:18] <Casper> paolo7: talking in english in an english only channel would help
[21:33:45] <Tom_itx> he's in robotics
[21:34:03] <Tom_itx> trying to figure out how to log a channel
[21:37:06] <inflex> lo there
[21:37:30] <Tom_itx> hey inflex
[21:37:42] <Tom_itx> ordered new stencils today
[21:37:49] <inflex> metal or mylar?
[21:37:53] <Tom_itx> kapton
[21:38:17] <Tom_itx> my budget doesn't include metal
[21:38:48] <inflex> fair enough - would have thought you'd have a stencil cutter or adapt your CNC to be a stencil cutter
[21:39:02] <Tom_itx> i don't make enough of em
[21:39:06] <Tom_itx> to warrant that
[21:39:13] <Tom_itx> and besides, i'm lazy
[21:39:21] <inflex> fair enough
[21:57:06] <Casper> whooooohooooo!
[21:57:43] <Casper> guess what! I succeded to install a wireless card in my laptop that isn't whitelisted!
[23:10:38] <BrentBXR_> anyone here use arduino?
[23:10:58] <BrentBXR_> why do people use arduino over just straight programming the AVR themselves?
[23:11:03] <BrentBXR_> i never understood arduino
[23:11:40] <Casper> because people are lazy and think it's simpler?
[23:12:20] <Casper> many also think that they must use arduino junk if they get arduino dev board
[23:12:55] <BrentBXR_> So ignorince :)
[23:13:21] <BrentBXR_> so ignorance*
[23:42:15] <theBear> also on the ignorance subject, much like the basic stamp of the 90's, the advertising doesn't help at all... they don't lie, they just imply that without their product these things are near impossible to achieve
[23:47:41] <Casper> hey theBear !
[23:48:10] <Casper> theBear: I succeded to install a wireless card in my laptop that isn't on the white list!
[23:53:28] <theBear> err, unbelievable
[23:53:58] <Casper> I'm thinking to ebay an even better card
[23:54:24] <Casper> this laptop come with an intel ipw2200 (b/g)
[23:54:34] <Casper> that card is really crappy
[23:54:50] <Casper> I replaced it by an artheos a/b/g
[23:55:01] <Casper> but thinking to get one that do N
