Back
[00:26:41] <brentbxr> figured it out
[00:31:48] <inflex> going to let us know... or is this going to be one of those rubber-duck moments?
[00:33:44] <brentbxr> :D sorry
[00:33:52] <brentbxr> I disabled ADC
[00:34:18] <brentbxr> and it started working; dont know why ADCs enabled but somewhere in this source its setup
[00:41:05] <abcminiuser> For the record, PORTC is commonly JTAG
[00:41:09] <abcminiuser> Which overrides normal functions
[00:41:43] <brentbxr> :3
[00:42:09] <abcminiuser> Unless turned off in the fuses or via the JTD bit in MCUSR
[00:42:17] <abcminiuser> Err MCUCSR
[00:50:49] <abcminiuser> Y'all know that I'll have to start charging here from Wednesday for advice, right?
[00:51:26] <abcminiuser> (kidding :P)
[01:50:35] <abcminiuser> Mmmm
[01:50:52] <abcminiuser> Just inventend the patented Bachelor Bluecheese Omlette
[01:51:04] <abcminiuser> Ingredients: Eggs, blue cheese, contents of fridge
[02:07:42] <Valen> abcminiuser: that sounds nasty
[02:07:55] <abcminiuser> Valen, it. was. AMAZING.
[02:08:27] <Valen> i want to make one of these
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2003-09-06
[03:48:04] <rue_house> so I spent hours digging for adc's off cdroms
[03:48:11] <rue_house> and it turns out their pwm anyhow
[03:49:16] <rue_house> something odd with the cdroms
[03:49:28] <rue_house> the ones that dont use pwm adc's use current mode adc's
[03:52:09] <Endres> hmm... just started with avr-gcc yesterday and keep getting garbage using UART... MAX232 works fine, but I get really weird characters from the uC.
[03:54:09] <rue_house> Endres, what baud rate
[03:54:13] <rue_house> df
[03:54:26] <Endres> 9600 on a 16MHz ATmega644
[03:54:39] <rue_house> hmm that should be ok
[03:55:19] <h4x0r`> for what?
[03:55:23] <rue_house> missing data garbage or extra data garbage?
[03:55:30] <h4x0r`> ive found 4800 is pretty fast anyway
[03:56:20] <rue_house> Endres, your waiting for hte old data to finish sending before you load another byte, right?
[03:56:27] <Endres> well, just a littlebit text. its completely data garbage. and there does come more out than I sent.
[03:56:33] <Endres> yep, I'm waiting ;)
[03:56:36] <Endres> well maybe there is something wrong with the UBRR calculation...
[03:56:52] <rue_house> did you use the calculator?
[03:56:58] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org
[03:57:15] <rue_house> http://www.wormfood.net/avrbaudcalc.php
[03:59:39] <Tom_itx> rue_house, you gonna let ruemohr expire?
[04:00:06] <rue_house> ?
[04:00:13] <Tom_itx> .org
[04:00:16] <rue_mohr> yes
[04:00:40] <rue_mohr> it didn't work, I have no other use for it, screw it :)
[04:02:18] <Endres> rue_house: yes, used this calculation ;)
[04:02:25] <Endres> but doesn't work either :P
[04:02:47] <rue_mohr> do you get some successfull data or all garbage
[04:02:57] <Endres> all garbage...
[04:03:01] <rue_mohr> hahah OH
[04:03:05] <rue_mohr> here we go again...
[04:03:16] <rue_mohr> can I just give you a log of last night?
[04:03:23] <Endres> of course ;)
[04:03:38] <rue_mohr> I dont want to...
[04:03:41] <rue_mohr> !thislog
[04:03:42] <tobbor> This one:
http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2012-01-02.html
[04:04:31] <rue_mohr> oh it wasn't yesterday
[04:05:15] <rue_mohr> Endres,
[04:05:18] <rue_mohr> http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2011-12-31.html
[04:05:27] <rue_mohr> between MrFrankenstine and me
[04:05:30] <rue_mohr> starting at
[04:05:35] <Endres> okay
[04:06:00] <Endres> 18:41:17?
[04:07:08] <rue_mohr> 19:41:26:
[04:07:19] <rue_mohr> the baud rate hunting process
[04:07:30] <rue_mohr> I suspect your avr is not going the speed you think it is
[04:08:13] <rue_mohr> so if you have your avr send U repeatedly at about 4800 baud, and use a terminal program to hunt for the result, you can find out what your cpu clock rate really is
[04:08:58] <rue_mohr> I should makea program that does the baud hunt for ya
[04:09:38] <rue_mohr> Endres, get what I mean?
[04:09:56] <rue_mohr> I think your really running at 1 or 8 Mhz
[04:10:30] <rue_mohr> meaning your 9600 baud would show up as either 4800 or 300 baud
[04:10:39] <Endres> yep, I also think this. But then what about the fuses? don't they select the external quartz?
[04:10:52] <rue_mohr> dont mess with the fuses yet
[04:10:57] <rue_mohr> find out whats going on first
[04:11:05] <Endres> good idea ;)
[04:11:13] <rue_mohr> if you screw up the fuses you need another avr to get them back right
[04:11:21] <Endres> oh rly?
[04:11:24] <rue_mohr> unless you have one of toms programmers
[04:11:26] <Tom_itx> possibly
[04:11:35] <rue_mohr> a later rev one :)
[04:11:39] <Endres> uh... hopefully I did not already ;)
[04:11:54] <rue_mohr> if you screwed it up, you wont be abel to program it anymore
[04:12:07] <rue_mohr> its a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly common mistake
[04:12:08] <Tom_itx> rue, they should all work
[04:12:17] <rue_mohr> ok
[04:12:17] <Endres> ah okay... just set the fuses I had to like they said in the manual
[04:12:26] <rue_mohr> no,
[04:12:40] <rue_mohr> make a program for hte avr that sends out continious U
[04:12:51] <Endres> okay...
[04:13:01] <rue_mohr> then use a terminal program like minicom to search for the rate that makes you get all U
[04:13:08] <Endres> yep
[04:13:15] <rue_mohr> Tom_itx, what are you doing up at this hour?
[04:13:17] <Endres> why the hell U? ;)
[04:13:24] <rue_mohr> U is 01010101
[04:13:32] <Endres> understand :P
[04:14:21] <rue_mohr> tom this u4 board isn't an official board of yours eh?
[04:14:26] <rue_mohr> not on your page anywhere :)
[04:14:32] <Tom_itx> it is
[04:14:36] <rue_mohr> ?
[04:14:37] <Tom_itx> but i never sold any
[04:14:40] <rue_mohr> I saw the U2
[04:14:48] <rue_mohr> not the u4
[04:14:48] <Tom_itx> the u2 is on the site yes
[04:14:51] <Tom_itx> no
[04:14:55] <Tom_itx> you need something?
[04:15:03] <rue_mohr> I was huntin last night
[04:15:10] <rue_mohr> trying to figure out dfu
[04:15:23] <rue_mohr> wanted your flasher source, but my guess worked
[04:15:39] <Tom_itx> it's probably on my site
[04:16:09] <rue_mohr> after tripping over a few differences from the mega32 I got it going
[04:16:21] <rue_mohr> port F !?!?!...
[04:16:21] <Tom_itx> if not i can put it there
[04:16:30] <Endres> hey, using 600 Baud I get 10 10 10 ... in hex
[04:16:54] <rue_mohr> Endres, use something like minicom and look for consistant U's
[04:17:05] <rue_mohr> Endres, er, linux or windows?
[04:17:08] <Endres> linux
[04:17:15] <rue_mohr> minicom or screen
[04:17:28] <rue_mohr> all the instructions for minicom are on that log
[04:17:30] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/
[04:17:33] <Endres> okay
[04:17:34] <Tom_itx> there's a couple files there
[04:17:44] <Tom_itx> not all i have though
[04:17:56] <rue_mohr> tis ok
[04:18:26] <rue_mohr> is there a board like your u4 board out there?
[04:18:38] <rue_mohr> cause I saw a pic of a board thejester once had at the shop
[04:18:43] <rue_mohr> waaay back
[04:18:52] <rue_mohr> and I dont recall him getting one from your
[04:19:10] <Tom_itx> very likely
[04:19:38] <Tom_itx> google teensy
[04:19:44] <rue_mohr> oh, could you post for me a pic of the silkscreen for that u4 board
[04:19:57] <Tom_itx> if i made one
[04:19:58] <rue_mohr> half of its interrupted on the pcb
[04:20:03] <Tom_itx> if not i'll get one later today
[04:20:33] <rue_mohr> you can do just hte silkscreen from eagle yes?
[04:20:40] <rue_mohr> I cant read all the port numbers
[04:20:57] <Tom_itx> yeah
[04:22:07] <rue_mohr> 2am, I think I'm goin down
[04:22:21] <Tom_itx> yep
[04:22:33] <Tom_itx> i'll get you one and post it later. i can't seem to find it
[04:22:41] <rue_mohr> thanks
[04:23:06] <rue_mohr> I'v got to get my butt in gear and make up ground so I can send you something
[04:23:31] <Tom_itx> does it have the osc or xtal on it?
[04:23:58] <rue_mohr> u4 with xtal, its got 2 caps
[04:24:07] <Tom_itx> ok
[04:24:09] * rue_mohr squints, but 4 pads...
[04:24:32] <Tom_itx> well the pin headers would be the same either way
[04:25:13] <rue_mohr> yea, its not like I'm makin the board, just trying to hook up to it :)
[04:26:06] <Tom_itx> one tick and i'll have it
[04:26:19] * rue_mohr changes into his ajmmies
[04:29:54] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/rue/U4_Silk2.png
[04:30:15] <rue_mohr> heh, reading it is still a bit skethy :)
[04:30:19] <rue_mohr> np
[04:30:21] <rue_mohr> thanks
[04:30:28] <Tom_itx> i'll get a better one later on
[04:30:29] <rue_mohr> oo aref
[04:31:24] <rue_mohr> nc? you couldn't find anything to connect it to?
[04:31:26] <rue_mohr> :)
[04:31:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/rue/U4_Silk1.png
[04:31:42] <Tom_itx> better?
[04:32:12] <rue_mohr> meh
[04:32:21] <rue_mohr> I can get the port numbers off either
[04:32:43] <rue_mohr> I was squinting trying to work out if the led was on D7?
[04:33:18] <rue_mohr> I got the distinct impression the ports were not successive
[04:33:28] <Tom_itx> pd6
[04:33:34] <rue_mohr> ah
[04:33:34] <Tom_itx> no
[04:33:39] <rue_mohr> I'm flashing half the port :)
[04:34:01] <rue_mohr> the usb pins, are they exposed to? wanted to make sure I didn't step on them
[04:34:16] <rue_mohr> with the flasher code
[04:34:37] <rue_mohr> cause my machines usb controller to flip out :)
[04:35:31] <Tom_itx> pm
[04:35:32] <Endres> So there is no baud rate, which gives me my Us back
[04:35:54] <rue_mohr> what baud rate is your controller trying to send at?
[04:36:20] <Endres> 9600
[04:36:30] <Tom_itx> rue_mohr is that better?
[04:37:00] <rue_mohr> Endres, what program did you test with?
[04:37:13] <Endres> minicom, picocom, gtkterm
[04:37:22] <Endres> all of them ;)
[04:37:26] <Tom_itx> later..
[04:37:37] <rue_mohr> one is ok, you know that minicom can often need a restart to change baud rate?
[04:38:00] <Endres> meh... what's often?
[04:38:13] <Endres> but for that I also used other terminal programs... so...
[04:38:16] <rue_mohr> ok, and you tried 300, 4800 and 19200?
[04:38:20] <Endres> yep
[04:38:27] <rue_mohr> hmm
[04:38:33] <CapnKernel> Nice use of "can". "Our wonder cream can often reduce the visible signs of aging" :-)
[04:38:33] <rue_mohr> thats really odd
[04:39:05] <rue_mohr> Endres, with minicom, I change the baud rate, save, quit and restart it
[04:39:28] <rue_mohr> Endres, and you had the handshaking set to none on the terminal programs?
[04:39:31] <CapnKernel> I've never needed to restart minicom
[04:39:35] <rue_mohr> you shoudl recieve anyhow
[04:40:00] <rue_mohr> CapnKernel, and it chnaged ports and baud rates and handshaking ok for you?
[04:40:07] <CapnKernel> Yeah for sure.
[04:40:11] <rue_mohr> huh
[04:40:11] <Endres> well I receive something... at 300 its all 0x12, at 600 its all 0x10
[04:40:21] <CapnKernel> Let's say the serial device is /dev/ttyUSB0. You can check the current setting by running this: stty -a < /dev/ttyUSB0
[04:40:30] <OndraSter> eya
[04:41:03] <rue_mohr> Endres, share your uart U code, see if these chaps can help, I have to go to bed!
[04:41:16] <rue_mohr> http://ideone.com/
[04:41:17] <CapnKernel> rue_mohr: Good night
[04:41:41] <Endres> http://pastebin.com/tdisHvhV
[04:48:07] <Endres> whew, I get the Us at 600 Baud now!
[04:48:17] <Endres> and used 4800 baud in the code recently
[04:49:37] <Endres> so the uC runs at 2MHz I suppose. So the CKDIV8 Fuse is set incorrectly. Isn't it?
[06:56:56] <ys0> oi
[07:00:40] <vectory> hi
[07:00:41] <tobbor> Hello vectory
[07:04:39] <CapnKernel> tobbor: So, like totally tell us about the greeting thing!
[07:04:58] <vectory> :D
[07:05:07] <vectory> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/888073a409f1983ba6e39db22e07c004
[07:05:35] <vectory> just a crazy idea, do you think it could work to switch leds and be power efficient at that?
[07:07:01] * CapnKernel wonders "why" on several levels
[07:07:07] <CapnKernel> First, what is the problem you are trying to solve?
[07:07:29] <CapnKernel> Second, if those LEDs go to ground (not shown), why do the transistors short them to ground?
[07:07:42] <CapnKernel> Third, why use lossy transistors when you can use MOSFETs?
[07:09:56] <vectory> i have really no idea, i just thought that with transistors (or fets) a pin can select on of two lines, so 2 pins can select 2*2 lines etc. only one pin is needed to turn the selected line on or off
[07:10:04] <vectory> and i dont know if it makes sense anyhow :D
[07:10:11] <CapnKernel> But what's the problem you're trying to solve?
[07:10:24] <vectory> switching leds, like with a matrix, but using less pins
[07:10:37] <CapnKernel> Hint: Describing the problem doesn't involve suggesting a solution.
[07:10:40] <Tom_itx> google charlieplex
[07:10:53] <CapnKernel> Yeah. Get thee to a Charlieplex.
[07:11:00] <vectory> afaik this would be more efficient, not sure
[07:11:17] <vectory> i watcjed a youtube vid about charlieplexing
[07:11:39] <vectory> think got the concept, but how many pins does it need for say 16 leds
[07:11:50] <vectory> +i
[07:15:09] <vectory> hm, 4 pins for 12 leds, not bad. my "design" would only get 8
[07:15:39] <CapnKernel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlieplexing
[07:15:43] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlieplexing
[07:16:55] <vectory> im reading
[07:18:09] <vectory> nice table there :) 10 pins -> 90 leds, but my idea would support 512, if, and thats my problem, if it works
[07:20:05] <CapnKernel> The anodes of the LEDs are connected to resistors, what about the cathodes?
[07:20:17] <vectory> the grounded is like an external pull down
[07:20:30] <vectory> CapnKernel: gnd most likely
[07:20:59] <CapnKernel> Most likely? You don't know?
[07:21:20] <CapnKernel> The top left transistor will short the LED drive current to ground. Is that really what you want?
[07:22:35] <CapnKernel> There are also several input combinations will will result in a dead short (well, would be a dead short except for the non-zero resistance of the transistors) to ground.
[07:23:25] <CapnKernel> For example, if the left and middle inputs are high, you'll get a short. There are also other combinations that do the same thing.
[07:23:30] <vectory> yes, like a switch, there are always wo pairs of transistors, with a high signal one should drive, the other pull to ground. a low signal overrides the pull down, while the other transistor blocks, liek a switch. crazy? maybe
[07:24:26] <vectory> well, the inputs are controller outputs
[07:25:33] <vectory> controller not included in the schematic
[07:25:50] * CapnKernel would use shift registers. Simple, predictable, scalable.
[07:26:03] <vectory> just saw the cap wont work as i thought >_<
[07:26:10] <OndraSter> yep, shift registers are kewl
[07:26:17] <vectory> CapnKernel: using lots of amps, no?
[07:27:31] <CapnKernel> No, why do you say that?
[07:28:01] <vectory> didnt have a look yet
[07:29:56] <vectory> 4 µA max, not too bad actually
[07:31:31] <CapnKernel> vectory: Why do you say "lots of amps"?
[07:31:43] <CapnKernel> And 4µA for what?
[07:31:51] <vectory> expected order of magnitude higher
[07:32:02] <vectory> im looking at the ds for 74hc164
[07:32:15] <vectory> says icc = 4 µA max
[07:32:33] <vectory> 8 bit sipo shift register
[07:36:23] <vectory> but then it says: ICC or IGND DC VCC or Ground Current ± 50 mA
[07:38:13] <CapnKernel> You might also consider a 4094
[07:38:25] <vectory> hm
[07:38:44] <CapnKernel> You can daisy chain them as far as you like, connect all the strobes together to latch the result, and you also have an output enable.
[07:39:07] <CapnKernel> The only thing it won't do is constant current for the LEDs.
[07:50:20] <vectory> ok, a bit less clutter on this one
[07:50:27] <vectory> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/732df4bfe465f2fd945b2e9424a4159a
[07:51:02] <vectory> the resistor right after vcc should help avoid the short circuit, no?
[07:52:26] <CapnKernel> You can do the same thing with two LEDs back to back, one resistor, and one pin
[07:52:42] <vectory> the problem to solve is switching two leds with one pin, but not using charlieplexing or shift registers :P
[07:53:33] <vectory> still forgot to connect the kathodes of the leds >_>
[07:55:36] <vectory> maybe to ground, then the leds are never off at the same time
[07:56:57] <CapnKernel> Do you always want one LED on?
[08:00:14] <vectory> yes, in this case, generally not of course
[08:06:31] <CapnKernel> Then use this circuit:
http://imagebin.org/191361
[08:06:45] <CapnKernel> Note D1 and D2 are back to back.
[08:07:41] <CapnKernel> Look I give up. I got better things to do. I think your idea is crack smoking.
[08:08:08] <vectory> well ok
[08:08:17] <vectory> thx for the tips tho
[08:08:22] <WormFood> you're smoking crack again CapnKernel? :P
[08:08:24] <CapnKernel> np
[08:08:42] <CapnKernel> You still beating your wife, WormFood?
[08:08:52] <WormFood> no, I stopped that
[08:09:03] <WormFood> how about you? ;)
[08:09:13] <CapnKernel> I've never smoked crack.
[08:09:18] <WormFood> of course not
[08:09:27] <CapnKernel> But vectory is itching to show me how.
[08:09:32] <WormFood> me too neither
[08:09:37] <WormFood> hahaha
[08:09:43] <CapnKernel> WormFood: Happy New Year
[08:09:47] <CapnKernel> To you and T.
[08:10:03] <WormFood> one of my friends got hooked on crack...rather sad...tried to get me into it, but I had no interest
[08:10:20] <WormFood> 新年快乐 ;)
[08:10:23] <CapnKernel> That stuff has "danger" written all over it.
[08:10:39] <WormFood> you can see how other people handle it.
[08:10:46] <CapnKernel> However if you do ever find some DMT, do let me know.
[08:10:47] <WormFood> nobody handles it well
[08:11:01] <WormFood> I used to have some DMSO years ago
[08:11:12] <CapnKernel> Not the same dude.
[08:11:12] <WormFood> you looked that up, right?
[08:11:15] <WormFood> I knw
[08:11:17] <WormFood> know
[08:13:34] <CapnKernel> I googled DMT addiction the other day. No-one has ever been addicted. And in fact, it's used in the treatment of alcoholism :-)
[08:13:45] <WormFood> really? didn't know that
[08:14:16] <WormFood> I'm setting up a new web site for a friend. It will be really nice when I'm finished. Remind me in a week or two, and I'll show you
[08:14:37] <WormFood> fortunately my friend is active in telling me what he wants the site to do.
[08:19:51] <WormFood> oh yeah, I know what DMT is now...couldn't place the name to what it is....just lick a toad :P
[08:24:16] <WormFood> CapnKernel, would you lick a toad? (assuming it is the right type of toad)
[08:57:36] <CapnKernel> WormFood: No
[08:58:00] <OndraSter> eww
[08:58:02] <OndraSter> licking a toad
[08:58:06] <OndraSter> that's disgusting
[08:58:08] <WormFood> hehehe...good idea
[08:58:14] <WormFood> some people do it
[08:58:49] <CapnKernel> You are thinking of bufotenin, a toxin carried by some toads
[08:59:01] <CapnKernel> It is absolutely and definitely not DMT
[08:59:08] <WormFood> at least one produces dmt
[08:59:22] <CapnKernel> Ok then, link?
[08:59:38] <CapnKernel> DMT is found in plants, esp members of the Acacia family. Lots of such plants here in Australia
[08:59:49] <CapnKernel> It's also produced in the brain's pineal gland.
[08:59:53] <WormFood> and in animals too
[09:00:33] <WormFood> http://dmtdrug.com/
[09:00:47] <WormFood> DMT drug can be found naturally within several hundred, if not thousand different varieties of plant. The venom of the toad Bufo Alvarius also contains the DMT drug.
[09:01:28] <CapnKernel> Good luck with 5-MeO-DMT, by all accounts it is awful
[09:01:43] <WormFood> but legal in most places
[09:01:52] <CapnKernel> N,N-DMT much more interesting
[09:02:23] <CapnKernel> Legal in the same way as hitting yourself on the head with a hammer is legal: There's simply no reason to ban it because it's severely unpleasant!
[09:03:37] <CapnKernel> Better info:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml
[09:03:55] <OndraSter> I like hitting myself on my head
[09:05:15] <WormFood> I like to smoke hash...
[09:05:20] <keenerd> I will admit that I am a frequent abuser of GCC-4,6.
[09:05:24] <WormFood> ...but it is hard to keep the corned beef lit
[09:05:35] <CapnKernel> keenerd: LOL
[09:05:59] <CapnKernel> After using GCC-4,6, I've been known to use GAS.
[09:07:15] <CapnKernel> On that note, I'm off.
[09:07:22] <WormFood> 再见
[09:07:29] <WormFood> see ya l8r, have a good night
[09:07:37] <WormFood> I'm heading to bed soon myself
[09:07:46] <OndraSter> gn
[09:08:12] <crazy_pete> wow why are we talking about 5-Meo in AVR ? :) (Not that i mind, or am a cop. i am just amused to see it in AVR :) )
[09:08:38] <CapnKernel> WormFood made me do it :-)
[09:08:39] <crazy_pete> 5-Meo is actually becoming illegal in more and more places (just to give u a heads up)
[09:08:49] <WormFood> one of the users here is suspected of smoking crack
[09:08:54] <WormFood> we have the irc logs as evidence
[09:09:13] <crazy_pete> Countries all over the world (For example the canadian omnibus crime bill that passed recently) are simply remaking their laws in the image of the USA
[09:09:17] <crazy_pete> lol
[09:09:39] <WormFood> yes, follow the usa, that is the best thing all countries of the world can do
[09:09:40] <crazy_pete> i have smoked crack before, definately the most unpleasant feeling
[09:09:45] <crazy_pete> lol WormFood
[09:10:06] <WormFood> be more like uncle sam...that will help the whole world
[09:10:06] <CapnKernel> I feel so inferior, I've only licked crack.
[09:10:10] <crazy_pete> i am sure that means something is wrong or different with my dopamine system
[09:10:20] <WormFood> maybe you're lucky
[09:10:21] <crazy_pete> lol CapnKernel
[09:10:36] <CapnKernel> night all
[09:10:43] <WormFood> 晚安
[09:10:47] <crazy_pete> awe sorry to see u leave
[09:10:55] <crazy_pete> i was gonna enjoy talking dmt w/ u
[09:11:26] <crazy_pete> whatcha think about iran knocking down US drones?
[09:11:34] <WormFood> good job
[09:11:52] <crazy_pete> yeah that was pretty amazing not that i love iran either
[09:12:07] <crazy_pete> (iran and the USA are 2 sides of the same evil coin)
[09:12:17] <WormFood> I can't argue that
[09:13:01] <WormFood> USA overthrows a democratically elected Iran leader, and replaced him with a dictator, that was friendly to usa interests
[09:13:21] <WormFood> usa does not give a flying fuck about democracy, and democracy is BAD in any case.
[09:13:24] <crazy_pete> yep same story over and over all over the world
[09:13:39] <crazy_pete> i have to laugh, but hitler hit is spot on
[09:13:55] <crazy_pete> He said ultimately all states will become authoritarian police states
[09:14:16] <crazy_pete> because 1) the only way to keep women from voting is to become an authortarian police state
[09:14:37] <crazy_pete> 2) Failing that, and women get to vote.... they will immediately vote to become a police state"
[09:14:56] <WormFood> hahaha
[09:15:02] <WormFood> seems to be accurate
[09:15:11] <crazy_pete> well look at it
[09:15:35] <WormFood> USA actually fits the definition of "fascist"
[09:15:45] <WormFood> I mean, now it does...not always
[09:15:50] <crazy_pete> we got drug and alcohol prohibition immediately after letting women vote
[09:16:03] <WormFood> at one time, USA was the best country in the world....now look at it...really sad
[09:16:18] <crazy_pete> the fact that women WOULD vote for drug and alcohol prohibition was a major campaign plank in female suffragism
[09:16:28] <WormFood> I never noticed that before, but it seems you're right
[09:16:39] <WormFood> now you ever watch the "man show"?
[09:16:50] <WormFood> they had a petition out, to repeal womens sufferage
[09:17:23] <crazy_pete> that led of course to an explosion of organised crime.... that led to a great depression that led to the rise of facism and communism, the former killing 6M people and the latter 60M people, this in turn led to a great world war killing another 60M. people
[09:17:32] <WormFood> hahaha....there was all the women signing it, and there was one guy standing there, saying all those women are stupid, because they're signing a petition to take away their right to vote
[09:17:52] <WormFood> the great depression of the 1930s was fabricated by the federal reserve
[09:18:00] <crazy_pete> all of this happened within a single generation of letting women vote
[09:18:02] <crazy_pete> that too WormFood
[09:18:12] <crazy_pete> that is hilarious WormFood
[09:19:16] <crazy_pete> you know what is interesting about DMT is that there is a theory that it is how reptiles keep their burrows clean
[09:19:23] <WormFood> also, a lot of people think democracies are the best thing....but really, they are only slightly better than communism and socialisim
[09:19:39] <crazy_pete> communism and socialism and democracy are orthogonal
[09:20:04] <crazy_pete> you can have a leftist democracy just as Germany and Italy and the USA were/are right wing democracies
[09:20:06] <WormFood> most people think the usa was founded as a democracy, but in reality, that is NOT what the founding fathers wanted.
[09:20:14] <crazy_pete> well Germany and Italy were democracies anyway
[09:20:28] <jakllsch> is this ##politics or something?
[09:20:35] <WormFood> the founding fathers of the usa very clearly wanted a democratic republic....key word being "republic"
[09:20:54] <crazy_pete> actually it was founded as a parliamentary republic but a great deal of them were leaning towards an aristocracy
[09:20:58] <pc_magas> <crazy_pete>Democracy will exist if the wayt hat the products are produced in democratic way and the means of production do not belong to few people
[09:21:01] <WormFood> jakllsch, I'm supporting my AVR baud rate calculator, and the conversation got a little sidetracked :P
[09:21:19] <crazy_pete> hey is dean camera around?
[09:21:26] <crazy_pete> i never said that pc_magas
[09:21:41] <pc_magas> <crazy_pete>Marx did
[09:22:25] <crazy_pete> oh right
[09:22:31] <crazy_pete> i don't remember that but it sounds like him :)
[09:22:50] <crazy_pete> women pretty much destroyed the occupy movement here in the USA too
[09:23:37] <crazy_pete> everytime we tried to have a discussion on strategy, some dumb bitch would stand up and tell us all about the love flowing from Gods vagina and how until we realised that all these problems were caused by male thinking blah blah blah blah
[09:24:01] <WormFood> wow, she sounds stupid
[09:24:07] <WormFood> women are more vicious than men
[09:24:13] <crazy_pete> woman after woman did that WormFood
[09:24:30] <crazy_pete> i dunno about more vicious then men, but maybe
[09:24:45] <WormFood> I'm convinced, that if women didn't own a vagina, they would be shot on sight.
[09:25:17] <WormFood> we'd have a hunting season on them
[09:25:23] <crazy_pete> i dunno i know a lot of useless people w/o vaginas
[09:25:30] <crazy_pete> most countries don't have this sort of problem though
[09:25:34] <WormFood> you know why women have legs? So they don't leave snail tracks all over the place
[09:26:05] <OndraSter> LOL
[09:26:20] <crazy_pete> a big problem in the USA is it's strong semitic middle eastern influence. You can't have a sexually repressive religion like xianity and also let women vote
[09:26:22] <WormFood> ok...I got one truly terrible joke before I go......why are women like dog shit?...because the older they get, the easier they are to pick up...hahaha
[09:26:30] <crazy_pete> hahahaha WormFood
[09:26:48] <crazy_pete> although honestly i find the opposite to be true
[09:26:56] <crazy_pete> the younger they are the more they go for me
[09:27:03] <WormFood> fresh dog shit is easier to pick up?
[09:27:10] <crazy_pete> but then i have a reputation around here
[09:27:36] <WormFood> I have no problems getting girls to go out with me, even tho I already have a gf
[09:27:48] <crazy_pete> (I have a tendency to respond to women with "Let's fuck or go away"
[09:28:05] <WormFood> do you really say that? I mean, that bluntly?
[09:28:24] <WormFood> I can say "I want to fuck your pussy" in Chinese :D hahaha
[09:28:26] <crazy_pete> which means that older women who are looking for long term security instead of sex know to avoid me
[09:28:37] <WormFood> why is it, the bad words are so much easier to learn in a foreign language?
[09:28:40] <crazy_pete> haha (and yes i do say it, in fact it is about the only way i get laid)
[09:29:27] <crazy_pete> (to be honest though, i have tourettes syndrome, although i only found out about it recently)
[09:29:27] <WormFood> I can say quite a few horrible things in Mandarin, that could get me into many fights in China on any given night.
[09:29:33] <crazy_pete> hahahah WormFood
[09:30:20] <WormFood> I was trying to say "fuck" in Chinese, but I couldn't say it right, and my girlfriend gave me a puzzled look...and then I said it right....I know I said it right, because her expression changed
[09:31:10] <crazy_pete> hahha
[09:31:17] * crazy_pete loves chinese girls
[09:31:25] <crazy_pete> especially mandarins
[09:31:33] <OndraSter> azns are hot
[09:31:35] <WormFood> that was so funny....reminds me of the SNL Mr. Roger's neighborhood parody...."can you say 'bitch'? Go into the room where your mother is, and say 'bitch', if she slaps you, you said it right"
[09:32:22] <WormFood> crazy_pete, come to China...they have lots, and Lots and LOTS of Chinese girls there.
[09:32:59] <WormFood> I've had girlfriends 18 years younger than me
[09:33:03] <WormFood> in China
[09:33:26] <WormFood> yeah, I know, for some of you guys, that would be like 12 years old...but not for me....my daughter is already 23
[09:33:45] <OndraSter> that would be 1yo for me lol
[09:33:52] <WormFood> you pedo!
[09:33:53] <WormFood> hahaha
[09:34:16] <WormFood> well, you can have enough time to train her right
[09:34:18] <crazy_pete> haha i love seeing the look on people's faces when i tell them i once got busted for having sex with a 9 year old
[09:34:29] <crazy_pete> "Why aren't you in jail????"
[09:34:32] <OndraSter> crazy_pete, o_O
[09:34:40] <WormFood> really?
[09:34:43] <crazy_pete> "Well because i was 8 at the time and too young to put on trial" :)
[09:34:49] <OndraSter> LOL
[09:34:52] <WormFood> yeah
[09:35:12] <OndraSter> quite mature eh
[09:35:25] <crazy_pete> but i actually did get rather traumatised about sex and authority figures from that experience (honestly)
[09:35:26] <WormFood> how did you get busted?
[09:35:36] <WormFood> forgot to lock the door?
[09:35:57] <crazy_pete> i didn't get legally busted actually, i was having sex with a girl from an older grade under the bleachers when a teacher caught us
[09:35:57] <WormFood> ever had sex with someone else in the same room, that didn't know you were having sex?
[09:36:28] <crazy_pete> to make matters worse the girl had insisted i cut her clothes off with a pocket knife (because that was the way the guy did it on TV)
[09:36:36] <WormFood> hahaha
[09:36:39] <OndraSter> lol
[09:36:52] <mrfrenzy> it's a trap!
[09:36:53] <crazy_pete> (hell we were 8 and 9)
[09:37:01] <OndraSter> watching porn when you were 8?
[09:37:05] <OndraSter> sounds familiar to me
[09:37:26] <WormFood> I remember in first grade, there was a girl who was crazy about me, and always wanted me to put my hands down her pants...in class...when the kid sitting beside me moved, this girl asked to sit beside me
[09:37:38] <crazy_pete> no, this was actually a TV show like "Mannix" or something where they showed a guy cutting off a girls clothes with a pocket knife, and then everything went dark and faded to a scene with police talking or something
[09:37:40] <WormFood> but we never got caught
[09:37:43] <crazy_pete> this as 42 years ago :)
[09:37:50] <crazy_pete> so i don't remember it perfectly :)
[09:38:09] <WormFood> you're so old
[09:38:12] <crazy_pete> yepo
[09:38:12] <OndraSter> haha
[09:38:25] <WormFood> hey grandpa, got any stories for us?
[09:38:27] <WormFood> hahaha
[09:38:33] <crazy_pete> what is weirdest about being this old is not being able to tell other peoples age
[09:38:55] <WormFood> I'm 43, and it is not uncommon for people to guess my age as 10 years younger.
[09:38:57] <crazy_pete> I will be talking to a girl and thinking "Wow, she's jailbait, i wonder if anyone is gonna call the cops for me flirting with her?"
[09:39:12] <crazy_pete> and then she will say "Well it was nice meeting you but i have to go pick up my grandkids now"
[09:39:18] <OndraSter> lol
[09:39:18] <crazy_pete> turning 50 is weird :)
[09:39:29] <OndraSter> how is it with turning 20?
[09:39:41] <crazy_pete> i don't remember turning 20
[09:39:42] <WormFood> the best thing about me being in China, is the fact that girls of all ages want to be with me
[09:39:48] <OndraSter> crazy_pete, wasted in some pub? :D
[09:39:51] <crazy_pete> i remember turning 21
[09:39:55] <crazy_pete> hardly OndraSter :)
[09:40:26] <crazy_pete> quite the opposite in fact, when i turned 21 i gave up all drugs except herb after being a real junkie since i was 15
[09:40:41] <OndraSter> ugh
[09:40:54] <OndraSter> I have never smoked pot, cigaars nor cigarretes
[09:40:57] <crazy_pete> and i remember thinking what douchebags the other college kids were because they were out celebrating their first legal drink and i was way past that
[09:41:14] <crazy_pete> you wanna hear something really ironic?
[09:41:16] <WormFood> OndraSter, try some pot brownies
[09:41:19] <OndraSter> I've also never got wasted so I wouldn't remember anything
[09:41:21] <crazy_pete> i was a junkie for 7 years
[09:41:29] <crazy_pete> but was a fanatic about clean needles
[09:42:04] <crazy_pete> then i find out i got hepatitis C from a painful and un-needed medical procedure
[09:42:47] <crazy_pete> lol here's one for ya OndraSter yer a girl right?
[09:42:52] <OndraSter> wat
[09:42:56] <OndraSter> Ondra = Andrew lol
[09:42:56] <crazy_pete> tell me what you think of my online dating profile :)
[09:43:03] <WormFood> when I get drunk (not often), I'm more coherent than the people I'm with that aren't drinking....I go to a bar at halloween (also my b-day), and I'm with friends, and my friends would have left my things at the bar, if I didn't remind them....and I can also tell the taxi driver exactly where to take me, in Mandarin, no matter how drunk I am
[09:43:23] <crazy_pete> http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Crazy_Pete62 <--- think that will get them ? :)
[09:43:37] <crazy_pete> wow that is great WormFood you live in China now?
[09:43:44] <OndraSter> bi?
[09:43:47] <crazy_pete> btw no offence OndraSter
[09:43:52] <OndraSter> crazy_pete, Andrew is guy's name
[09:43:56] <OndraSter> fyi
[09:43:57] <crazy_pete> sorry OndraSter
[09:43:58] <OndraSter> lol
[09:44:00] <WormFood> I've been here for 4 years, on Jan 18th
[09:44:22] <crazy_pete> i thought you had said something to indicate you were female (sorry i meant no offence, and it was MY mistake)
[09:44:37] <WormFood> sorry OndraSter, but the letter pattern in your name, make me think of "sandra sister"
[09:44:42] <OndraSter> lol
[09:44:47] <WormFood> right pete?
[09:44:55] <OndraSter> nope, crazy_pete
[09:44:57] <crazy_pete> that might be it
[09:45:05] <OndraSter> sometimes I wish I was a chick, easier to hook up... with chicks!
[09:45:08] <impulse32> what gave you hepatitis?
[09:45:09] <OndraSter> lesbians ftw
[09:45:24] <crazy_pete> i used to have a chinese GF but i let her drift away as we schizoids do
[09:45:45] <OndraSter> what is the sex limit for japanese or chinese chicks?
[09:45:48] <OndraSter> sex age limit
[09:45:50] <impulse32> 13
[09:45:51] <OndraSter> 18?
[09:45:53] <impulse32> for japan
[09:45:55] <OndraSter> LEGAL
[09:45:56] <crazy_pete> i had monthly injections of gamma globulin (the painful part of rabies shots ) from the time i was 5 until i was 8
[09:46:19] <impulse32> why you got bit?
[09:46:23] <crazy_pete> nope
[09:46:29] <crazy_pete> it was complete and utter crap
[09:46:33] <OndraSter> wait, 13 is legal in japan?
[09:46:52] <crazy_pete> the actual rabies vaccine is painless and only one shot
[09:47:03] <impulse32> what country was this in?
[09:47:08] <crazy_pete> (that is why your dog doesn't freak out when he gets his rabies shot)
[09:47:09] <impulse32> doctors are crooked btw
[09:47:24] <WormFood> I read that 14 is legal in China
[09:47:34] <OndraSter> yay
[09:47:39] <crazy_pete> but in addition to giving you an actual vaccine, they give you gamma globulin which is thick fraction of general antibodies from blood, it is like injecting an egg white
[09:48:00] <OndraSter> 15 is legal in here, where 18+ shouldn't have sex 15-18 yo
[09:48:01] <OndraSter> but
[09:48:02] <OndraSter> who cares -.
[09:48:14] <crazy_pete> which is why rabies shots are so hideously painful for humans, it isn't the actual rabies shot but the gamma globulin shots that hurt so much
[09:48:45] <crazy_pete> basically some crooked doctors were injecting healthy children with this stuff (each shot has the pooled blood antibodies of 180 people)
[09:48:59] <crazy_pete> in cahoots with the pharm company that made it (glaxco iirc)
[09:49:22] <crazy_pete> basically every kid that got this treatment (it was supposed to protect against childhood diseases) died
[09:49:22] <impulse32> i bet they got sweet vacations out of it though
[09:49:26] <jacekowski> i had rabies shots twice
[09:49:35] <jacekowski> after i got bitten by my cousin hamster
[09:49:37] <jacekowski> and hmm
[09:49:39] <crazy_pete> i am actually kinda proud to be one of the very few known survivors
[09:49:40] <crazy_pete> really
[09:49:49] <crazy_pete> did they give you the gamma globulin or just the rabies shot?
[09:49:52] <jacekowski> don't remember exactly why i had first one
[09:50:06] <jacekowski> hmm, i'm not sure
[09:50:10] * crazy_pete loves statutory rape jokes
[09:50:34] <crazy_pete> i can remember being raped by older men when i was under 18. I had no idea that legally, i was being raped
[09:50:57] <impulse32> what were they doing?
[09:51:22] <WormFood> they don't teach you that kinda stuff in school, do they?
[09:51:36] <crazy_pete> but i was under 18 so it was rape, man i can still remember the stuff those old men would scream when they raped me "OMG who is this kid? What's this kid doing to me?? OMG HELP HELP GET HIM OFF ME!!!!"
[09:52:01] <impulse32> lol
[09:52:01] <crazy_pete> :)
[09:52:32] <crazy_pete> hahaha of course that isn't true
[09:52:43] <crazy_pete> but i did pull a real dumb tracy lords when i was 15
[09:52:55] <crazy_pete> i had no idea there was an "age of consent" or any bullshit like that
[09:53:14] <crazy_pete> and i looked about 25 when i was 15
[09:53:24] <OndraSter> lol
[09:53:43] <crazy_pete> anyway i was hitch-hiking and back in the 1970s this was pretty common for hitchhikers
[09:54:00] <crazy_pete> "You like this girl, wanna fuck her for $50? Mind if we film it?"
[09:54:34] <OndraSter> wait, you are from japan or china?
[09:55:04] <crazy_pete> afterwards (i am not making this up) i told them on the way to the bar for an after work drink not to worry about me being 15 because i never get carded
[09:55:12] <WormFood> neither OndraSter...I'm in China
[09:55:17] <WormFood> Pete is in usa
[09:55:20] <OndraSter> oh
[09:55:28] <WormFood> and I'm FROM usa
[09:55:38] <crazy_pete> it was another 5 years before i learnt about "age of consent" and found out why the entire group at hand went total bananas, began immediately destroying the film, etc
[09:55:47] <crazy_pete> i am in N California OndraSter
[09:56:05] <crazy_pete> threw me out on my arse
[09:56:19] <OndraSter> oh
[09:56:37] <OndraSter> I am living since I was born in Prague.... but I wanna move to somewhere else
[09:56:46] <OndraSter> but whole worlds' economy is failing, so I have no idea where P:
[09:56:48] <OndraSter> :P
[09:57:01] <impulse32> somewhere remote
[09:57:01] <WormFood> I'm very happy here in China. I wished I had come to Asia years ago
[09:57:06] <impulse32> where there is no economy
[09:57:15] <WormFood> I want to sell my home in USA, and buy one here in China.
[09:57:21] <crazy_pete> lol my favourite part in that profile is about watching women howl in agony over their shot up dead children and comparing it to the dumb yank bitch who thinks she's scarred for life because her last BF didn't pay enough attention to her
[09:57:46] <crazy_pete> yer a bohemian! :)
[09:58:00] <crazy_pete> what do you like about china?
[09:58:28] <vectory> bohemians travel, no?
[09:58:37] <vectory> they are not stationary
[09:58:42] <WormFood> the cute chinese girls
[09:58:42] <crazy_pete> oh and hey OndraSter you think that web page will keep people away? :-)
[09:58:47] <crazy_pete> no vectory that is us
[09:58:47] <jacekowski> OndraSter: well, i think the best thing to do is watch news and make a not of countries not mentioned there
[09:58:54] <crazy_pete> bohemians stay put in bohemia
[09:59:06] <crazy_pete> hahah good point jacekowski
[09:59:08] <jacekowski> OndraSter: or not mentioned very often
[09:59:12] <OndraSter> hmm
[09:59:17] <OndraSter> I wanted either UK or USA
[09:59:23] <crazy_pete> everyone says the girls, WormFood i was curious if you would as well :)
[09:59:25] <jacekowski> to many niggers in here
[09:59:29] <jacekowski> in USA as well
[09:59:35] <OndraSter> crazy_pete, the text is REALLY long lol
[09:59:42] <crazy_pete> no worries
[09:59:48] <crazy_pete> gotta sister? I can get you to the USA
[09:59:52] <WormFood> well, it is more than just that
[09:59:55] <OndraSter> lol crazy_pete
[09:59:57] <OndraSter> I do have a sister
[09:59:58] <OndraSter> 14 yo
[09:59:58] <WormFood> but that aspect is really nice
[09:59:59] <crazy_pete> i marry your sister and then she sponsers
[10:00:01] <crazy_pete> you
[10:00:03] <OndraSter> lol
[10:00:12] <crazy_pete> can you forge an extra 4 years onto that birth certificate ?
[10:00:23] <WormFood> 14 is ok
[10:00:25] <WormFood> hahaha
[10:00:28] * Tom_itx wonders what #avr has come to
[10:00:34] <WormFood> old enough to bleed...old enough to breed
[10:00:41] <crazy_pete> hey i didn't start it ! !!!! :)
[10:00:45] <jacekowski> crazy_pete: from what i've heard you have to be 21 to marry
[10:00:52] <WormFood> this is #bizzarro-avr
[10:00:54] <crazy_pete> only 18 in the USA
[10:01:02] <impulse32> w 11
[10:01:06] <OndraSter> 18 in CZE too
[10:01:10] <jacekowski> crazy_pete: so you can't drink untill 21
[10:01:12] <OndraSter> actually, if you come to, let's say, china
[10:01:13] <crazy_pete> 21 in china
[10:01:14] <jacekowski> but you can marry?
[10:01:17] <crazy_pete> hep
[10:01:17] <OndraSter> and have sex with 14 yo which should be legal
[10:01:19] <jacekowski> that sucks
[10:01:20] <crazy_pete> isnt that idiotic
[10:01:22] <OndraSter> japan*
[10:01:28] <OndraSter> and then you travel to your country
[10:01:29] <Tom_itx> yeah but you can start paying taxes when you're born
[10:01:32] <jacekowski> OndraSter: it is, if you are under 18
[10:01:45] <crazy_pete> heres a great one, in the USA state of missouri, some years ago some woman politician passed bill banning the sale of toy guns to people under 21
[10:01:48] <WormFood> in China a man can not get married if he is under 22 years old, and a woman if she is under 20
[10:01:50] <OndraSter> jacekowski, that's not my point. My point is - she will not be over 15 yo here
[10:02:13] <crazy_pete> So now, IN MISSOURI, you must be 21 to purchase a toy gun.... but only 16 to purchase a REAL gun! :)
[10:02:19] <OndraSter> but she will be already ... err, opened lol
[10:02:20] <crazy_pete> i think that is hilarious
[10:02:27] <WormFood> I want to give up my usa citizenship, and get citizenship from another country.
[10:02:42] <jacekowski> WormFood: what about canada
[10:02:48] <crazy_pete> i would love to go to canada
[10:02:48] <OndraSter> canada ://
[10:02:49] <jacekowski> i thought about going to canada
[10:02:54] <OndraSter> they speak weird there
[10:03:15] <jacekowski> singapore is a nice place as well
[10:03:22] <crazy_pete> anyway OndraSter get yer sister to marry me and then sponser you on a family visa :)
[10:03:29] <crazy_pete> good lord i wouldn't go near Spore
[10:03:36] <crazy_pete> hang you for 10 joints
[10:03:50] <impulse32> argentina should be good
[10:03:51] <OndraSter> crazy_pete, I had similar offer, that didn't include getting married... one person could get me to USA and get me some flat
[10:03:53] <impulse32> legal weed
[10:04:01] <impulse32> in canada it's a gray area
[10:04:09] <jacekowski> impulse32: weed is legal in CZ and greyish in NL
[10:04:12] <OndraSter> impulse32, Amsterdam? :D
[10:04:13] <crazy_pete> weirdly enough it isnt for me in canada
[10:04:17] <OndraSter> weed is not legal in CZ
[10:04:21] <jacekowski> it is
[10:04:25] <OndraSter> huh
[10:04:25] <crazy_pete> Are you quite sure OndraSter ?
[10:04:26] <impulse32> what isn't?
[10:04:31] <OndraSter> I am sure it is not
[10:04:31] <jacekowski> well, it's not illegal
[10:04:38] <jacekowski> OndraSter: well, then you are wrong
[10:04:40] <OndraSter> afk
[10:04:43] <WormFood> http://wormfood.net/pictures/Mary_Jane_in_Yunnan_province.jpg I found marijuana just growing between the cracks in the sidewalk, in China
[10:04:47] <jacekowski> OndraSter: they've changed law last year
[10:04:47] <crazy_pete> i have heard that Bangladesh and the Czech republic are the only 2 places on earth where MJ is actually legal
[10:04:49] <keenerd> Tom_itx: So I got bit by a cute bug today. I was using a long to store time in seconds. I figured the consistant lag of sec++; would be better than the variable run time of incrementing different sec/min/hour counters. Wow was I wrong, adding 1 to a long is sloooow.
[10:04:59] <OndraSter> I don't watch that lol
[10:04:59] <jacekowski> crazy_pete: it's not criminalised in NL
[10:05:01] <crazy_pete> man i would so love to go to Yunnan
[10:05:16] <crazy_pete> that is a great pic WormFood
[10:05:17] <WormFood> keenerd, write it in assembly
[10:05:30] <crazy_pete> ta ma
[10:05:41] <WormFood> I took it with my nokia phone...the original (and maybe that pic too) has gps coordinates in it :D
[10:05:50] <crazy_pete> kewl WormFood
[10:06:06] <crazy_pete> yeah i find i write a lot of timing critical stuff in Asm and then call it from C keenerd
[10:06:19] <crazy_pete> i smoked some amazing weed from Yunnan once
[10:06:23] <WormFood> I thought I saw it growing in someone's garden, but couldn't get close enough to see....and I keep my eyes open, and see that
[10:06:27] <jacekowski> keenerd: floating point operations on arch without hardware FP is always slow
[10:06:35] <WormFood> I'd love to go back at the right time of the year
[10:06:39] <vectory> gcc should produce the shortest possible way of incrementing a long
[10:06:40] <crazy_pete> Yunnan is known for weed
[10:06:44] <keenerd> jacekowski: Who said anything about floating point?
[10:06:48] <WormFood> if you go to webehigh.com, they comment about it
[10:06:58] <crazy_pete> actually gcc is not very efficient on the AVR (or i am doing something wrong)
[10:07:00] <WormFood> a long is not fractional
[10:07:12] <WormFood> the AVR is very easy to program in assembly
[10:07:12] <jacekowski> keenerd: hmm, i'm not sure but i've read it as float
[10:07:33] <jacekowski> adding 1 to long shouldn't be very slow
[10:07:56] <jacekowski> iirc it's 8 instructions
[10:08:02] <keenerd> That is what I thought. But is was enough to mess up the sync on my high speed serial connection.
[10:08:18] <impulse32> a long integer?
[10:08:24] <jacekowski> yeah
[10:08:25] <crazy_pete> i read a story about Yunnan where the communist government was actually lecturing to a crowd of Yunnanese about how proud they should be of the fact that the government has completely eradicated Ta Ma smoking from the province
[10:08:41] <jacekowski> WormFood: you are in china now, isn't internet there censored and whatnot
[10:08:41] <crazy_pete> and about half the people in the crowd were toking while he lectured!
[10:08:44] <keenerd> Yeah. In a one-a-sec interrupt.
[10:09:32] <WormFood> yes, and yes
[10:09:41] <jacekowski> when i was in china we had a sat phone
[10:09:49] <vectory> increase the clock frequency
[10:10:25] <crazy_pete> i would like to see your code and see how it assembles here
[10:10:41] <crazy_pete> all you are doing is long i = 0 ; i++ ; ?
[10:10:52] <jacekowski> crazy_pete: it takes few cycles
[10:11:09] <keenerd> Well, i=1 because GCC fails to allocate globals set to 0 in 4.6.
[10:11:17] <keenerd> But yeah.
[10:11:20] <jacekowski> hmm
[10:11:27] <jacekowski> crazy_pete: and it will assemble into few SBIS+ADDs
[10:11:34] <jacekowski> + load from memory
[10:11:42] <jacekowski> that's slow
[10:11:57] <jacekowski> keenerd: what if you force it into register
[10:12:00] <jacekowski> s
[10:12:15] <keenerd> I just rewrote it the traditional way, with uchars and wrap tests for sec/min/hour.
[10:12:43] <jacekowski> that's just as slow as incrementing long
[10:12:51] <jacekowski> because that's pretty much what it's doing
[10:12:54] <keenerd> At least twice as fast here.
[10:12:57] <jacekowski> wrap tests + incrementing
[10:13:01] <jacekowski> strange
[10:13:06] <keenerd> Yeah.
[10:13:07] <jacekowski> -O2?
[10:13:10] <keenerd> Yes.
[10:13:22] <jacekowski> have you tried -Os
[10:13:26] <jacekowski> it's faster sometimes
[10:13:42] <keenerd> Will try that, thanks.
[10:14:12] <jacekowski> but i'm just wondering how gcc would fuck that up
[10:14:35] <WormFood> jacekowski, is it a long or a float?
[10:14:35] <crazy_pete> gcc failes to initialise statics? That is a serious bug
[10:14:39] <jacekowski> it's probably somehow storing it in memory and then moving data takes time
[10:14:41] <jacekowski> WormFood: long
[10:14:49] <crazy_pete> i am interested too
[10:15:01] <WormFood> look at the asm code it produces
[10:15:38] <amee2k> if i want to set up supply rails (as in, solid metal rails with screw terminals to take off power) that are good for say 15A continuous, should i go for brass rod or aluminium?
[10:15:51] <jacekowski> amee2k: copper
[10:15:53] <WormFood> copper is best
[10:16:03] <jacekowski> amee2k: but i would never use aluminium
[10:16:08] <jacekowski> amee2k: brass is much better
[10:16:10] <WormFood> I agree
[10:16:19] <jacekowski> aluminium only works on HV
[10:16:23] <amee2k> okay
[10:16:29] <WormFood> if your only choice is brass and aluminum...then really, your only choice is brass
[10:16:41] <jacekowski> brass is quite decent material
[10:16:45] <jacekowski> strong and durable
[10:16:52] <jacekowski> and it's not bad conductor
[10:17:00] <WormFood> actually, silver would be best
[10:17:07] <WormFood> but, not for cost
[10:17:10] <amee2k> copper or brass are quite expensive so from what i can see i would likely be cheaper off using a thicker aluminium rod than brass
[10:17:19] <jacekowski> amee2k: not really
[10:17:25] <jacekowski> amee2k: aluminium will not work
[10:17:35] <jacekowski> amee2k: aluminium passivates really fast
[10:17:49] <amee2k> i can get 30x8mm aluminium for less per meter than 6x6mm brass
[10:17:50] <jacekowski> and resistances on contacts will be really high
[10:18:00] <amee2k> eww, that sounds nasty
[10:18:08] <crazy_pete> dont use aluminium if you can help it
[10:18:12] <jacekowski> that's why aluminium is only good for HV
[10:18:24] <jacekowski> because HV will break trough oxide layer and weld conductors
[10:18:34] <amee2k> yeah
[10:18:45] <amee2k> rail voltage is 24Vdc
[10:18:48] <jacekowski> but connections to other metals are complicated
[10:18:51] <amee2k> hence the high currents
[10:19:23] <jacekowski> that's why only real use for aluminium conductors is HV lines ( and some are done in copper anyways )
[10:19:36] <crazy_pete> well i am off to bed thanks for company folks
[10:20:11] <jacekowski> but for your application alinium is as good as any random isolator
[10:20:19] <amee2k> yeah
[10:22:29] <amee2k> 6x6mm brass should do it i think... with the thicker aluminium rods i'd have drilled a 4mm hole through it, then 2.4mm in from the side and tapped for M3
[10:23:11] <jacekowski> you can go for wider/thinner rods
[10:23:17] <amee2k> but with that arrangement i'm losing a lot of cross section on the brass bar, should i better just drill one hole with an M3 bolt and use end sleeves to bolt the cables on top?
[10:23:27] <jacekowski> like 4x8 or something
[10:24:00] <jacekowski> and then you can drill holes and bolt your cables to it
[10:24:17] <jacekowski> but 15A isn't really that much
[10:24:38] <keenerd> Why not bundle up a bunch of 10ga copper house wire?
[10:24:38] <jacekowski> so loss in cross section because of holes isn't big problem
[10:24:39] <amee2k> so only one tapped hole is the way to go? as opposed to the luster terminal style screw terminals
[10:25:02] <jacekowski> amee2k: well, if you have space i would add nut on the other side
[10:25:14] <amee2k> keenerd: because i have lots of branches, and running a big cable from device to device is more complicated than connecting it to a solid rail with short pigtails
[10:25:30] <keenerd> I mean make the rail out of 10ga copper.
[10:25:51] <amee2k> how large is that in metric units?
[10:26:10] <amee2k> 10sqmm should work for the current too, but i'm not sure how i would connect my taps to that
[10:26:15] <jacekowski> amee2k: way we do it for 24V distribution is we are using normal din rail mounted terminals
[10:26:39] <jacekowski> amee2k: but it depends on your volt drop requirements
[10:26:51] <jacekowski> not only on current rating
[10:27:17] <keenerd> It is 20 amp household wiring... 2.9mm.
[10:27:21] <amee2k> supply is specced for within 5% of nominal
[10:27:37] <amee2k> so not really critical
[10:27:39] <jacekowski> keenerd: thing is, that 20a wiring will give you 10V drop at 20A
[10:27:50] <jacekowski> keenerd: which is ok for 230V mains, but not for 24VDC
[10:28:16] <keenerd> jacekowski: 10ga is 40 amp, so that is less of a problem.
[10:28:21] <amee2k> i don't think din rails will cut it. accessibility isn't a problem, but low profile is. after removing the cover i'll have 180° access to the supply rails
[10:29:04] <keenerd> jacekowski: And I am suggesting stranding several 10ga wires together to make a cheaper copper rail.
[10:29:04] <jacekowski> then brass bar with nuts and bolts will be the best option
[10:29:17] <amee2k> yeah, i think so too
[10:29:19] <jacekowski> keenerd: it won't be cheaper
[10:29:44] <jacekowski> majority of that wire price is copper costs
[10:29:46] <keenerd> It'll be cheaper than brass. Household romex wiring is cheap.
[10:29:52] <amee2k> i'll still look into using 10sqmm copper wire though. it would be entirely sufficient and readily available
[10:30:16] <amee2k> only not sure how to mount the taps on it though, but i'll figure that out or not :)
[10:30:29] <jacekowski> copper busbar will cost about the same as copper wire of similiar cross section
[10:30:36] <amee2k> thanks for the input, gotta run now... customers are nagging
[10:42:23] <Kingsy> anyone in here use eclipse?
[10:42:48] <impulse32> nope
[10:42:54] <impulse32> that's the firefox of IDE's
[10:43:04] <Kingsy> and firefox is bad?
[10:43:09] <impulse32> correct
[10:43:14] <impulse32> at least for me
[10:43:20] <impulse32> that's an opinion
[10:51:08] <Kingsy> can you specify a path for the -l file in the avr-gcc command?
[10:51:26] <Kingsy> I am getting an error "/usr/lib/gcc/avr/4.5.3/../../../avr/bin/ld: cannot find -llibpololu_atmega328p.a"
[10:52:59] <karlp> -Lsome/path/somewhere
[10:53:13] <karlp> is that what you mean?
[10:53:26] <impulse32> -l is for shortnames only isn't it?
[10:53:46] <karlp> what do you mean by shortnames?
[10:53:58] <impulse32> just the library name
[10:54:01] <karlp> it should be -lpololu_atmega328p yeah...
[10:54:02] <impulse32> with no path/extension
[10:54:27] <karlp> but the -L can tell it new paths to look in.
[10:54:30] <Kingsy> ah karlp got it
[10:54:40] <Kingsy> thanks
[10:56:00] <Kingsy> hmm i wonder how you set the target device in eclipse
[10:57:46] <vectory> in the makefile? i bet it uses makefiles, too
[10:57:57] <vectory> since it uses gcc
[11:21:09] <amee2k> hmm do you guys know the kind of screw terminals that are used for low-voltage halogen lighting systems with overhead wires?
[11:21:36] <amee2k> with two perpendicular holes
[11:22:03] <amee2k> whats the name for these, and can you buy them separately somewhere?
[11:23:32] <vectory> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/MTg3OTc0OTk-/Lichttechnik_Leuchtmittel/Diverse_Zubehoer/Fassungen/Fassung_fuer_HV_Halogenlampen_GU10.html
[11:23:35] <vectory> ?
[11:24:21] <vectory> what is a perpendicualr hole?
[11:27:52] <Kingsy> what the hell is a trimpot?
[11:27:59] <Kingsy> if anyone knows?
[11:28:26] <karlp> just a small pot
[11:28:38] <karlp> designed for use in trimming a value,
[11:28:44] <Kingsy> what is a pot? in robotics terms
[11:28:44] <karlp> ie, not being adjusted very much
[11:28:54] <karlp> a potentiometer/variable resistor
[11:29:53] <vectory> that would be a precision trimmer, no? i just bought a trimmer and was hoping it would ho all the way from 0-200 Ohms
[11:30:03] <vectory> go*
[11:30:25] <Kingsy> wow.. I don't know what that means.. I guess i need to read about it
[11:30:41] <karlp> "trimpot" doesn't have any precision implied in the name
[11:31:50] <vectory> Kingsy: looks like this
[11:32:16] <vectory> it has a screw that you can turn to adjust the resistance over the middle terminal
[11:32:18] <vectory> http://www.google.com/search?q=trimpot&hl=de&client=ubuntu&hs=Ifm&channel=fs&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4OcBT4THN4HGswbo0KDaDw&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=858
[11:32:32] <vectory> oh google urls are long, sorry
[11:33:07] <Kingsy> vectory: see this is my sample prog -->
http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J20/6.f <-- first example
[11:33:17] <Kingsy> it doesnt work and I am trying to figure out why
[11:33:50] <Kingsy> by it doesnt work, I THINK the pot value fine, cos the led is blinking, but the motors dont start
[11:35:27] <vectory> Kingsy: there are two code examples
[11:35:33] <vectory> which one?
[11:35:38] <Kingsy> yeah.. the first one
[11:35:41] <Kingsy> is the one I am trying
[11:36:14] <Kingsy> it compiles and uploads good.. the led blinks, which means the delay is correct.. but the motors do nothing
[11:42:25] <vectory> yeah, i dont know anything about motors, not to mention that i dont know how this should be connected or what motors you have
[11:43:32] <vectory> and if you didnt know what a trimpot is, how did you build the circuit %-)
[11:44:16] <Kingsy> its a pre-built robot I am using to get started
[11:44:38] <MrFrakenstine> hello all
[11:44:59] <MrFrakenstine> I'm trying to get a ADC auto trigger from a timer0 overflow
[11:45:21] <MrFrakenstine> but as usual my interpretation from the datasheet must be far off
[11:46:16] <MrFrakenstine> http://pastebin.com/z3Pm4ywU
[11:46:30] <MrFrakenstine> please let me know if you find something stupid (or otherwise)
[11:48:04] <OndraSter> what chip is this on? I don't have ADATE in 128a's datasheet :)
[11:48:08] <MrFrakenstine> mega 168
[11:48:42] <MrFrakenstine> the point of that code is, I have a L78XX regulator powering my circuit which is heating a little (it has a big heatsking and a cooler on it). I want to poll a NTC thermistor and control the cooler
[11:48:55] <MrFrakenstine> only when needed
[11:49:10] <MrFrakenstine> but so far, the LED connected at PB5 is not lighting up
[11:49:23] <MrFrakenstine> which means the conversion complete interrupt is never executed
[11:49:35] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: do you know that there are switchmode drop-in replacements for 78xx
[11:49:44] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: no heatsinking required
[11:49:46] <MrFrakenstine> but the timer is effectively ticking cause the PWN output is powering the cooler
[11:50:08] <MrFrakenstine> jacekowski, I know, but I'm a masoquist and I like coolers in my systems :D
[11:50:18] <MrFrakenstine> it looks cool :D
[11:50:26] <jacekowski> and besides, how much current and voltage you are running trough it
[11:50:42] <MrFrakenstine> Vin is 9V and I'm droping it into 5V
[11:50:48] <MrFrakenstine> around 1Amp
[11:50:58] <MrFrakenstine> mostly only 400mA all the times
[11:50:59] <jacekowski> 4W
[11:51:08] <MrFrakenstine> so I want to enable the cooler when running at 1A
[11:51:14] <jacekowski> a lot for 7805 to be honest
[11:51:35] <MrFrakenstine> it is fine, I can touch it with hands... big heatsink :D
[11:51:48] <MrFrakenstine> but anyway, can you help with the code?
[11:52:09] <jacekowski> well, it's in manual
[11:52:18] <jacekowski> interrupts enabled?
[11:52:22] <MrFrakenstine> yes
[11:52:23] <OndraSter> sie();
[11:52:28] <MrFrakenstine> not in that code though
[11:52:32] <MrFrakenstine> its in the main function
[11:52:36] <MrFrakenstine> which is in another sources
[11:52:41] <OndraSter> oh
[11:52:49] <MrFrakenstine> sei()
[11:52:59] <MrFrakenstine> other than that, any idea?
[11:53:52] <jacekowski> hmmm
[11:54:47] <OndraSter> ADC0D is in different register
[11:54:52] <OndraSter> DIDR0
[11:55:04] <OndraSter> not ADCSRB
[11:55:15] <jacekowski> set ADSC as well
[11:55:21] <MrFrakenstine> shit!
[11:55:33] <OndraSter> this way it was waiting for timer1 ovf
[11:55:39] <OndraSter> err
[11:55:41] <MrFrakenstine> totally right!
[11:55:43] <OndraSter> timer1 cmp match B
[11:56:00] <jacekowski> and you don't have ADSC set which will enable ADC
[11:56:22] <OndraSter> ADSC runs conversion... it is good to have it run at least once
[11:56:26] <OndraSter> the 1st time
[11:56:34] <MrFrakenstine> really?=
[11:56:34] <OndraSter> to let it init internally
[11:56:34] <MrFrakenstine> oh
[11:56:35] <OndraSter> but you don't need to I suppose
[11:56:41] <OndraSter> if it is auto-triggered through the timer0
[11:56:42] <MrFrakenstine> I though it was set by the trigger
[11:56:45] <OndraSter> ye
[11:56:51] <OndraSter> but the 1st run should be run manually
[11:56:56] <OndraSter> to init the circuitry
[11:57:29] <MrFrakenstine> looks like so, the led still doesnt light up
[11:57:41] <Steffanx> It does work when you start the adc manually?
[11:58:08] <OndraSter> also
[11:58:12] <OndraSter> doesn't just BV SET the bit?
[11:58:45] <MrFrakenstine> it does
[11:58:48] <MrFrakenstine> 1<<X
[11:59:01] <MrFrakenstine> but I find it readable
[11:59:03] <OndraSter> oh well, I don't see anywhere setting the PB5 to zero
[11:59:12] <jacekowski> DDR - data direction register
[11:59:19] <jacekowski> you have to set PORTD as well
[11:59:22] <OndraSter> ISR(ADC_vect)
[11:59:22] <OndraSter> {
[11:59:22] <OndraSter> PORTB |= _BV(LED);
[11:59:22] <OndraSter> }
[11:59:30] <OndraSter> where is flipping it back?
[11:59:37] <Steffanx> That doesnt matter does it OndraSter ?
[11:59:37] <jacekowski> hmmm
[11:59:46] <MrFrakenstine> no need, I just want to see if the interrrupt is called once
[11:59:48] <OndraSter> Steffanx, how come? If it is in 1, it won't ever switch back
[11:59:56] <OndraSter> oh ok
[12:00:01] <MrFrakenstine> and it doesnt even with ADSC
[12:00:03] <OndraSter> I thought it blinked once and stayed on
[12:00:11] <jacekowski> OndraSter: try running it on simulator
[12:00:18] <jacekowski> or on jtag if you have one
[12:00:35] <OndraSter> jacekowski, why are you talking to me? :)
[12:00:43] <jacekowski> no
[12:00:49] <jacekowski> i'm talking to MrFrakenstine
[12:00:51] <jacekowski> but i've had funny problem with a device i was powering trough jtag
[12:00:57] <MrFrakenstine> jacekowski, I dont have a sim :(
[12:01:00] <OndraSter> sim is built into the avr studio
[12:01:02] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: ekhm
[12:01:06] <MrFrakenstine> linux here
[12:01:06] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: do you have avr studio
[12:01:13] <OndraSter> eww :D
[12:01:19] <jacekowski> well, use windows
[12:01:19] <OndraSter> wasn't there some linux emulator project?
[12:01:24] <OndraSter> linux avr simulator
[12:01:29] <jacekowski> avrasim iirc
[12:01:32] <Steffanx> simavr
[12:01:38] <MrFrakenstine> yes, I have it but the project is far from finished if you know what I mean
[12:01:45] <jacekowski> well, use windows then
[12:01:50] <OndraSter> hehe
[12:01:51] <OndraSter> VMWare
[12:01:52] <OndraSter> afk
[12:02:09] <jacekowski> or virtualbox
[12:02:13] <MrFrakenstine> meh
[12:02:20] <jacekowski> going back to jtag and powering trough it
[12:02:35] <MrFrakenstine> installing windows is not actually a solution
[12:02:42] <jacekowski> device would reset randomly when i was powering it trough jtag
[12:02:43] <MrFrakenstine> the solution lays somewhere in the code :D
[12:02:52] <jacekowski> but when i was debugging it was ok
[12:03:05] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: well, but you will know if all registers are set up correctly
[12:03:17] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: and where it is failing
[12:03:42] <MrFrakenstine> I can see that too here, line by line
[12:04:13] <MrFrakenstine> but anyway, if there isnt anything else stupid in the code
[12:04:18] <Steffanx> ADCSRA |= _BV(ADLAR); <= that is wrong too MrFrakenstine
[12:04:25] <MrFrakenstine> AHH!
[12:04:25] <Steffanx> Not that it really matters
[12:04:32] <MrFrakenstine> let me look
[12:04:43] <Steffanx> ADLAR = part of the ADMUX register
[12:05:25] <Steffanx> but it should change anything, ADLAR is bit five, ADATE is bit five too, so you just set bit 5 of ADCSRA twice :D
[12:06:26] <MrFrakenstine> Steffanx, yes indeed
[12:06:33] <amee2k> vectory: hmm no, not the lamp socket. i mean the joints where the power is taken off the overhead wires
[12:06:53] <Steffanx> I still wonder if it does work you use a software trigger/start MrFrakenstine
[12:07:08] <MrFrakenstine> Steffanx, let me try then
[12:07:27] <amee2k> http://s10.directupload.net/images/100925/8v5fhltg.jpg << the terminals where the two long rods meet the overhead wires on this ugly piece of crap
[12:07:53] <amee2k> ugly *and photoshopped even
[12:08:09] <Steffanx> photoshop ftw
[12:08:24] <amee2k> not entirely, no.
[12:09:01] <amee2k> we get the catalog from a shipping comp that sells all kinds of flowers and plants in the mail on a more or less irregular basis
[12:09:44] <amee2k> they can make a page-filling picture of a bush that looks like 2-3 meters high
[12:09:58] <amee2k> from a pic of a single group of 5-6 flowers
[12:10:02] <Steffanx> :D
[12:10:55] <amee2k> if you look carefully the pattern repeats every 2cm or so :P
[12:12:15] <MrFrakenstine> I order all my plants from ebay :D
[12:12:20] <amee2k> and another catalog from a hardware store chain where it looks like some dude is jumping from the horizon with the romantic sea sunset
[12:12:42] <amee2k> straight into a tiny pool behind the moderately hot chick at the garden table
[12:13:46] <amee2k> the former apparently only have flowers so ugly that they desperately needed a graphics designer to sell anything
[12:14:14] <Steffanx> :P
[12:14:29] <amee2k> and the latter desperately need a graphics designer instead of an intern with a huge resume of making lolcat pics
[12:15:01] <amee2k> how do they think i still want to buy anything at all from them after that :P
[12:16:26] <Tom_itx> who was asking about debugwire the other day?
[12:16:40] <Steffanx> He
[12:16:41] <Steffanx> amee2k
[12:16:58] <Tom_itx> did you find your answer?
[12:17:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.ruemohr.org/docs/debugwire.html
[12:18:40] <keenerd> amee2k: Those lighting connectors aren't perpendicular, they swivel to any angle.
[12:25:19] <keenerd> Hrm, rotating and swivel are not good keywords for that type of terminal block. I'm out.
[12:29:35] <eroomde> hi chaps - what are my options for programming and debugging UC3 family devices?
[12:29:52] <eroomde> do i have to shell out for the atmel jtagice or are there other (cheaper) options?
[12:35:07] <OndraSter> MrFrakenstine, so does it work now? :)
[12:37:16] <OndraSter> hmm, atmega128a in tqfp64 package seems to not have enough pins
[12:37:26] <OndraSter> I'd like there connect few more SPI chips as a bonus
[12:37:31] <OndraSter> (one EEPROM, one big flash)
[12:38:06] <OndraSter> but I have one port empty, which I'd like to keep for external stuff (plus it has UART and I2C and one timer)
[12:38:08] <OndraSter> and.. that's it
[12:38:15] <OndraSter> tqfp100 it is for next projects!
[12:59:24] <vectory> would you recommend schmidt-triggers for debouncing switch-buttons or is just a lowpass enough?
[13:00:35] <rue_bed> pushed by human or machine
[13:00:43] <MrFrakenstine> OndraSter, went to eat something
[13:00:44] <vectory> human :D
[13:00:47] <MrFrakenstine> going to resume now
[13:00:56] <rue_bed> do a retrigger limit timer in software
[13:01:01] <rue_bed> on keyup
[13:01:33] <rue_bed> play with it till it feels right
[13:01:45] <vectory> really? thought thats too much, wanted to keep the code short.
[13:01:50] <rue_bed> I did a click/hold that way
[13:01:57] <rue_bed> works great
[13:02:48] <vectory> well, now that you say it, i can easily implement that, but it needs two variables and quite some registers, cant it be done in hardware without schmidt-trigger?
[13:03:30] <vectory> did everything in registers so far, no sram cause i didnt wanna bother with it ^^
[13:04:19] <rue_bed> if (!ISSET(2, PIND)) {
[13:04:38] <vectory> the assembler doesnt understand that :P
[13:04:46] <rue_bed> motorstop();
[13:04:46] <rue_bed> // a short pulse means stop, a long one means off
[13:04:47] <rue_bed> Delay(65535); // wait for a bit
[13:04:47] <rue_bed> Delay(65535);
[13:04:47] <rue_bed> Delay(65535);
[13:04:47] <rue_bed> Delay(65535);
[13:04:49] <rue_bed> if (ISSET(2, PIND)) { // still down = long pulse
[13:04:54] <rue_bed> assembler?
[13:04:56] <rue_bed> hmm
[13:05:00] <vectory> yes
[13:05:18] <rue_bed> you can do that in assebler
[13:05:30] <rue_bed> just need to know how to translate
[13:05:30] <vectory> ofc, but as i said, running out of registers xD
[13:05:37] <vectory> sec
[13:05:46] <vectory> i have a different aproach here
[13:05:58] <rue_bed> do yo not have a delay routine?
[13:06:13] <vectory> btw, is picopower just reduced power consumption or does it bring new moduls or instructions?
[13:06:41] <rue_bed> its just sleep feature
[13:06:48] <vectory> rue_bed: delay is just decrementing a register, at 1mHz thats enough for a 256 ms delay
[13:07:06] <rue_bed> you dont have a long delay made of a 256 in a 256?
[13:07:22] <rue_bed> a delay that repeats your delay?
[13:08:03] <vectory> 256 should be enough for debouncing afaict from reading on websites
[13:08:50] <MrFrakenstine> it is still not lighting up the LED
[13:08:51] <rue_bed> sure,
[13:08:53] <MrFrakenstine> using manual trigger
[13:09:11] <rue_bed> suppose I better get up
[13:09:20] <vectory> i just worry that low enabled ext interrupt will trigger too often, seeing it will unnessicarily wakeup from power-save mode
[13:09:54] <vectory> a cap would sure help with that, have some lying around but no idea what size
[13:10:06] <MrFrakenstine> Steffann,
http://pastebin.com/e2QQk0Ws
[13:10:26] <MrFrakenstine> rue_bed, ^^
[13:12:21] <MrFrakenstine> ah its working, I just needed to enable the interrupts *BEFORE* starting the ADC conversion
[13:12:27] <MrFrakenstine> otherwise the interrupt would be missed
[13:20:04] <MrFrakenstine> auto triggering is also working
[13:20:24] <MrFrakenstine> looks like the interrupts must be enabled globally before starting the ADC
[13:23:14] <Tom_itx> rue_bed you are being uber lazy
[13:24:36] <Tom_itx> did you take the week off?
[13:34:23] <jacekowski> MrFrakenstine: that's kinda obvious isn't it?
[13:34:45] <MrFrakenstine> not really
[13:34:55] <MrFrakenstine> if the interrupt source is the timer0
[13:35:09] <OndraSter> yeah, I wouldnt guess that either
[13:35:10] <Tom_itx> they still need to be enabled
[13:35:22] <MrFrakenstine> I was expecting the ADC to start ticking only when the timer is started
[13:36:01] <MrFrakenstine> in fact, I still dont have this working yet
[13:36:20] <MrFrakenstine> the sei() before enablingthe ADC only allows me to get the first interrupt
[13:36:30] <MrFrakenstine> and it stops there
[13:36:38] <MrFrakenstine> I'm trying to find why
[13:36:54] <Tom_itx> in free running mode or single conversion?
[13:37:06] <Tom_itx> later.. gotta run
[13:37:09] <MrFrakenstine> the datasheet says to disable the interrupt flag ADIF, but I think that is disabled automatically when entering the interrupt routine
[13:37:39] <MrFrakenstine> Tom_itx, neither, triggered by timer0
[13:38:07] <OndraSter> kinda reminds me HSI on 80c196 :)
[13:50:19] <amee2k> keenerd: hehe
[13:52:22] <amee2k> i think i'll be going for solid bar stock for the bus bars anyway. the wires are slightly easier to mount, but installing taps to take off power is not nearly as nice as drilling a hole and using a screw
[13:52:56] <mrfrenzy> what are you building?+
[13:54:31] <amee2k> a modular LED based lighting system
[13:55:02] <amee2k> based on modular driver boards powered off 24Vdc and controlled with a TWI bus
[13:55:54] <mrfrenzy> okay
[13:56:44] <amee2k> for my test fixture i want to run a pair of large bus bars along the top to make wiring easier
[13:57:25] <amee2k> point to point gets messy quickly, and running cables from one terminal to the next gets messy slowly
[13:58:27] <mrfrenzy> farnell has these nice din mount terminal blocks that can be connected to busbars
[13:58:58] <mrfrenzy> there are also separate connection clamps so you can connect cables without terminal blocks to an undrilled bar
[14:00:03] <amee2k> low profile is sort of a problem whereas accessibility is not. they'll run along the back of the fixture so taking the cover off yields 180x360 degree access
[14:01:09] <amee2k> 10x3mm brass barstock seems like a good idea... mount with stand-offs and these insulating sleeves for mounting transistors, drill holes for screw terminals, then connect boards with short pigtails
[14:01:37] <mrfrenzy> yeah those are the ones I'm thinking of
[14:01:52] <mrfrenzy> but I would use clamps rather than drill
[14:02:03] <amee2k> whats wrong with drilling?
[14:02:29] <mrfrenzy> it's boring, and not so easy to move stuff around
[14:02:36] <amee2k> brass is strong. all i need is a tapped M4 hole and a screw
[14:03:21] <mrfrenzy> if you need to move something after the fact you would get your enclosure full of brass shavings
[14:04:09] <amee2k> drilling is cheap if it is for a one-off. i can just make a hole every 10cm or so
[14:04:42] <amee2k> since it is the topmost thing except for the cover on that side of the fixture, removing the bus bars for rework would be easy enough
[14:04:50] <mrfrenzy> since I have my own business I tend to count every work
[14:05:04] <mrfrenzy> I never do boring manual work unless the alternative is very expensive
[14:05:15] <mrfrenzy> *count every minute
[14:05:34] <amee2k> i find desperately looking for an off the shelf solution that may or may not exist even more boring
[14:06:02] <mrfrenzy> I was not talking about building your device, that's fun
[14:06:13] <mrfrenzy> just the part saving a few cents on clamps by drilling and tapping
[14:06:14] <amee2k> so i tend to plan for making my own from the start when i think i can do it
[14:06:49] <amee2k> okay
[14:07:18] <amee2k> in a production device i'd just use multistranded wires and run them from board to board
[14:07:46] <amee2k> but that only works if you have a reasonable idea where you'll be needing the power exactly
[14:07:59] <mrfrenzy> I rebuilt a fuse panel for a porsche 928 last week
[14:08:04] <mrfrenzy> that was much more boring than I suspected
[14:08:09] <amee2k> hehe
[14:08:15] <mrfrenzy> I have blisters in my hands from crimping 120 connectors
[14:08:21] <amee2k> lol
[14:08:44] <amee2k> no gloves?
[14:08:49] <amee2k> or your tool has kinda crappy handles
[14:08:59] <Endres> crimped 120 connectors anytime?
[14:09:00] <Endres> xD
[14:09:10] <mrfrenzy> the project got delayed, so I didn't have time to get a nice tool
[14:09:17] <mrfrenzy> otherwise that was the plan
[14:09:47] <amee2k> i think the most i ever did in one run was like 50, but i borrowed a good tool from an electrician dude who was around
[14:09:47] <mrfrenzy> still, gloves could have helped, but it's really finicky to work with those small connectors and gloves
[14:09:57] <mrfrenzy> I have good crimping tools for *all* connectors except this very kind :(
[14:10:20] <amee2k> we were wiring up a small solar plant with lead acid batteries for 12V lighting
[14:11:18] <amee2k> they sell really thin mechanic's or assembly gloves here
[14:11:52] <amee2k> fabric base with a thin rubber coating for the grip and against water or oil
[14:12:26] <amee2k> gives reasonable dexterity but protects against scratches, splinters or nuisance cuts and stuff like that
[14:13:00] <amee2k> ever since i got some, my dad loves them too :)
[14:13:34] <mrfrenzy> I have a pair of thin kevlar gloves
[14:13:53] <mrfrenzy> great for wiring electrical panels etc, but they are a little to "stranded" to work with these small connectors
[14:13:56] <mrfrenzy> they wouyld just stick
[14:14:00] <amee2k> http://www.berufsbekleidung-schroeter.de/images/product_images/thumbnail_images/Montagehandschuhe-Ejendals-880-Tegera.jpg << like these
[14:14:38] <mrfrenzy> those are way too clumsy for this
[14:14:56] <amee2k> not the best example, i can't find mine right now
[14:15:38] <mrfrenzy> I will make an effort again, I'm yet to see any gloves that would work for such small work
[14:15:42] <amee2k> i've handled car blade connectors and it worked fine with mine
[14:15:56] <mrfrenzy> also, next time it will be even smaller, since I would use mini instead of midi fuse holders
[14:16:11] <mrfrenzy> had to move the cover for the electrical panel a bit since they were to big
[14:17:12] <amee2k> hmmm
[14:17:37] <amee2k> i think i could dispense with the insulating sleeves for the mounting screws if i used plastic blocks as stand-offs
[14:18:23] <amee2k> and the mounting screws only go into the plastic block, which is mounted separately
[14:42:57] <amee2k> why are TO92 packaged temperature sensors so expensive o.O
[14:43:34] <amee2k> almost 1 EUR for a stinking LM335
[14:43:34] <mrfrenzy> I don't think they are expensive
[14:43:47] <mrfrenzy> make that 1.5EUR for a DS1820
[14:43:52] <mrfrenzy> and you have a digital thermometer
[14:44:02] <mrfrenzy> saves on the A/D part, calibration etc
[14:44:39] <amee2k> never worked with 1-wire before
[14:44:52] <mrfrenzy> I love it
[14:45:25] <mrfrenzy> there are also similar for i2c and spi
[14:45:31] <mrfrenzy> if you already use one of those buses
[14:46:21] <amee2k> i like i2c but for this the parts are putting me off because pretty much all use pin-configurable addresses
[14:46:49] <mrfrenzy> yeah the 1-wire parts are configfree
[14:46:56] <mrfrenzy> (But some can be configured over serial)
[14:47:20] <amee2k> i want to make small sensors at the end of some 3-wire "servo cable" that i can seal with hot shrink and drop into a water tank
[14:47:47] <amee2k> i'll need 6-8 sensors on an atmega and i need to be able to identify which one is which
[14:48:08] <mrfrenzy> I would certainly use the trusty 1820 then
[14:48:13] <mrfrenzy> bbl
[14:49:25] <amee2k> yeah, i think you're right. they're just as expensive as normal sensor ICs but eliminate pretty much all analog considerations from my circuit
[15:03:04] <mrfrenzy> yeah and it saves you from temperature compensating, noise etc
[15:08:40] <MrFrakenstine> any ideas on how to get temperature from a 8 ohm thermistor?
[15:09:14] <MrFrakenstine> 8 ohm is really low, conventional resistor voltage dividers will consume a lot of current in my circuit
[15:09:29] <mrfrenzy> only connect the divider when you want to take a measurement
[15:09:38] <mrfrenzy> that also prevents heating of the thermistor
[15:09:44] <amee2k> yeah... high side switch with huge pulsed currents
[15:09:58] <MrFrakenstine> mm.. nice idea
[15:10:00] <amee2k> other than that, that thermistor would be somewhat awkward to use
[15:10:15] <mrfrenzy> or make an RC-thingy, measure the frequency
[15:10:24] <MrFrakenstine> never seen one liek this, I got it from a burned ATX power supply
[15:10:33] <amee2k> 1mA current source + precision instrumentation amp with lots of gain should work
[15:10:53] <amee2k> but just getting a different sensor would probably be easier :P
[15:10:55] <amee2k> wait
[15:11:00] <amee2k> is it the fat one right on the input?
[15:11:01] <MrFrakenstine> building a current limiter circuit is really out of question lol
[15:11:21] <mrfrenzy> photos please
[15:11:22] <MrFrakenstine> its a black NTC high AMP one
[15:11:41] <amee2k> ooh, that explains the low value. chances are it'll suck for temperature measurement anyway
[15:11:49] <amee2k> they are only intended as inrush limiter, really
[15:12:03] <MrFrakenstine> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/472567786/NTC_thermistor_MF72_5D_11.jpg
[15:12:07] <amee2k> if it has a fan, see if it is temperature controlled
[15:12:21] <amee2k> the tiny fan control boards usually have a 1k or 10k NTC on it
[15:12:32] <MrFrakenstine> yeah I wanted it to control the fan
[15:12:35] <amee2k> which would be infinitely superior for taking a temperature reding
[15:12:38] <amee2k> reading*
[15:12:56] <MrFrakenstine> yeah Im guessing Im going to order a bunch of those
[15:13:18] <amee2k> hmm if small package is a concern, how about the smallest attiny with built in temperature sensor on the ADC module?
[15:13:48] <amee2k> would only need a single small-signal MOSFET to control the fan then
[15:14:16] <MrFrakenstine> Im already using an avr for my application, there is plenty of room to control a bunch of fans :)
[15:14:26] <amee2k> hehe :)
[15:14:43] <amee2k> or the 1-wire temp sensors mrfrenzy showed me :)
[15:15:02] <MrFrakenstine> those are cool. NTCs are a bit pain in the ass to calibrate
[15:15:23] <MrFrakenstine> even with a infrared thermometer
[15:15:48] <mrfrenzy> do you have any power hungry devices on your board?
[15:16:07] <MrFrakenstine> I do, the big 96x16 LED matrix :D
[15:16:28] <MrFrakenstine> with all brightness up and all pixels on goes up to around 1 amp
[15:16:28] <mrfrenzy> do you have regulated supply voltage?
[15:16:49] <MrFrakenstine> yes but it is only 9V, I step it down to 5V with a lm78xx
[15:17:12] <MrFrakenstine> the heatsink I attached it into is fine for most of text
[15:17:29] <MrFrakenstine> but when I turn on all the pixels for some seconds, I can smell *heat* :D
[15:18:04] <amee2k> hehe
[15:18:04] <MrFrakenstine> so I thought int putting a temp. controlled fan, just for kicks
[15:18:13] <amee2k> do you have a supply higher than 9V?
[15:18:19] <MrFrakenstine> higher?
[15:18:24] <amee2k> yeah
[15:18:35] <MrFrakenstine> with a 7V one I could avoid most of this heat
[15:18:41] <MrFrakenstine> but why higher?
[15:19:02] <mrfrenzy> I think amee2k is on the same track as me :P
[15:19:05] <amee2k> i'd propose a small switching reg to step it down, but cheap ones with integrated switch suck at high duty cycle
[15:19:45] <mrfrenzy> a really ugly hack: connect the 8 ohm thermistor in series with the supply. measure the voltage and compare calculate the resistance from your know amount of pixels on the display :D
[15:19:52] <amee2k> if you could find at least a 12V rail to step down from, a 34063 would be worth a try
[15:21:16] <amee2k> hmm DS1820s are much cheaper if i buy the chinese fakes...
[15:21:31] <MrFrakenstine> I have a 2 amp 5V switching supply here
[15:21:38] <MrFrakenstine> but its broken
[15:21:53] <MrFrakenstine> have to order a 2000uF cap
[15:22:13] <mrfrenzy> check hobbyboards or digikey for proper ones cheaply
[15:22:27] <amee2k> i have a linear 0-30V supply... when i ran a pair of 700mA white LEDs off it the heatsink got damn hot too >_>
[15:23:08] <MrFrakenstine> I've been ordering from ebay
[15:23:19] <MrFrakenstine> there is plenty of stuff from China with free shippinh
[15:23:26] <MrFrakenstine> takes some weeks to arrive
[15:23:30] <OndraSter> yeah
[15:23:32] <MrFrakenstine> but it does, and it works
[15:23:34] <OndraSter> I usually grab them locally
[15:23:46] <OndraSter> or you don't mean caps?
[15:23:52] <MrFrakenstine> yeah
[15:24:31] <amee2k> i ordered a TEC module from a chinese ebay dude once
[15:24:46] <MrFrakenstine> the other day I bought a multi card reader for 0.3 Euros
[15:24:48] <amee2k> it took a month to arrive and paying with paypal was a huge pain in the ass
[15:24:51] <MrFrakenstine> usb that is
[15:25:12] <MrFrakenstine> and a 4 port USB hub for 1 euro
[15:25:13] <MrFrakenstine> lol
[15:25:26] <amee2k> lol
[15:25:39] <amee2k> do they still work?
[15:25:41] <MrFrakenstine> yeah
[15:25:50] <MrFrakenstine> I opened it
[15:25:53] <MrFrakenstine> it even has a regulator
[15:26:03] <amee2k> wow
[15:26:08] <MrFrakenstine> indeed
[15:26:22] <amee2k> it still works even after unpacking
[15:26:28] <amee2k> thats industry quality for ya
[15:26:32] <MrFrakenstine> lol
[15:26:33] <mrfrenzy> it's fun when you can buy devices that are cheaper than the parts in 1000 count
[15:26:50] <MrFrakenstine> totally, like thermopiles
[15:26:53] <amee2k> i ordered some chinese needle meters from a local reseller once. one of them didn't work at all
[15:26:56] <MrFrakenstine> I wanted to buy a thermopile
[15:27:03] <MrFrakenstine> 25 euros from farnell
[15:27:17] <mrfrenzy> I had to google that
[15:27:24] <amee2k> one of the wires on the coil was ripped off the solder joint
[15:27:25] <mrfrenzy> I just call them peltier element
[15:27:32] <MrFrakenstine> so I bought a infrared thermometer (with thermopile) from ebay frmo china for 6 euros
[15:27:33] <MrFrakenstine> aha
[15:27:52] <MrFrakenstine> and it works, I never toke it apart
[15:28:05] <amee2k> the other one is poorly dampened and when powering up it swings around 5-6 times before setting on the value
[15:28:59] <amee2k> when the needle is in the upper half and i turn off power, i can hear the needle click against the inside of the case because it undershoots so badly
[15:29:06] <MrFrakenstine> heh
[15:29:29] <amee2k> i've got a video at home, i can up it in a few days
[15:30:08] <MrFrakenstine> so I wanted to build a thermal camera using progressive scanning with a blackbody radiation thermopile
[15:30:40] <MrFrakenstine> I got the thermopile now, but I dont feel like destroying the infrared thermometer anymore
[15:30:49] <amee2k> lol
[15:31:01] <MrFrakenstine> (the thermopile is connected into a black epoxied circuitry)
[15:31:08] <amee2k> infrared thermometers are 20EUR in the store here and 10EUR from china
[15:31:19] <MrFrakenstine> the only output of the thing is the processed LCD segements values
[15:31:27] <mrfrenzy> one just has to be patient with the shipping
[15:31:36] <mrfrenzy> my christmas gifts arrived on friday last week
[15:31:39] <mrfrenzy> ordered on november 20
[15:31:43] <amee2k> lol
[15:31:47] <amee2k> no shit
[15:31:50] <MrFrakenstine> lol
[15:31:57] <mrfrenzy> from DX
[15:32:01] <mrfrenzy> with EMS
[15:32:05] <mrfrenzy> one package arrived on time
[15:32:17] <mrfrenzy> but the other got cought up in customs, which are overloaded on christmas
[15:32:30] <MrFrakenstine> customs are a pain
[15:32:43] <amee2k> no shit
[15:33:05] <amee2k> besides china itself, customs is the second reason why i don't like ordering from china
[15:33:43] <MrFrakenstine> lol, you always end up ordering from china. where do you think the electronics inside all consumer electronics come from?
[15:34:07] <amee2k> from china :P
[15:34:28] <amee2k> but if i buy from a local reseller, i can grab them by the balls if the crap doesn't work or never arrives
[15:34:36] <MrFrakenstine> indeed
[15:34:55] <MrFrakenstine> I had chinese sellers that disappeared from ebay after I bought stuff frmo them
[15:34:58] <mrfrenzy> otherwise you just grab em by paypal balls
[15:35:01] <amee2k> ordering from china is playing fire and forget with your money
[15:35:08] <mrfrenzy> paypal rocks for the buyer, and sucks for the seller
[15:35:15] <amee2k> mrfrenzy: not really
[15:35:35] <mrfrenzy> they have never ruled against me as a buyer
[15:35:51] <amee2k> did you ever claim back more than 10$?
[15:35:57] <mrfrenzy> you just have to make sure to open a case before the time runs out if the goods have not arrived
[15:36:17] <mrfrenzy> yeah, last I made a case about item not received, 140
[15:36:19] <amee2k> their website was a huge pain in the ass when i bought that TEC because for some fucked up reason they failed at importing the data from the ebay site
[15:36:29] <mrfrenzy> I had been calling and emailing the seller for four days without reply
[15:36:46] <mrfrenzy> after opening the case he sent the item immediately, apoplogized and refunded the shipping
[15:36:48] <amee2k> and around here they're desperately trying to sweep reports under the carpet that they wiggle their way out of the expensive ones
[15:37:01] <mrfrenzy> they are scared to shit from getting a bad reputation with paypal
[15:37:14] <amee2k> documents that evidently arrived in time suddenly disappeared and noone wants to know anything anymore
[15:38:01] <MrFrakenstine> bingo, I found another thermistor. this one was over the CPU of a coax ether card
[15:38:20] <amee2k> people's accounts get frozen because alledgedly people have filed complains and stay under investigation for ages
[15:38:48] <amee2k> they've ruined businesses this way who couldn't get to their money for months while orders pile up
[15:38:57] <mrfrenzy> amee2k: yes, sellers accounts
[15:39:00] <mrfrenzy> it sucks for sellers
[15:39:53] <amee2k> of course it does, because it sucks in general :P
[15:40:43] <MrFrakenstine> mm.. doesnt seem to work like a thermistor
[15:41:13] <MrFrakenstine> any idea about this? it is a dark yellow (brownish) ceramic thingie with two terminals
[15:41:21] <MrFrakenstine> it says 303
[15:41:23] <mrfrenzy> again, photo please
[15:41:31] <MrFrakenstine> (sounds like 3 code resistor )
[15:41:31] <mrfrenzy> sounds more like a capacitor or varistor
[15:41:54] <amee2k> sounds like a 30k thermistor, but that would be an odd value
[15:42:03] <MrFrakenstine> but it doesn't allow current to pass through
[15:42:16] <amee2k> is it a foil or ceramic cap by chance?
[15:42:27] <amee2k> but 30nF wouldn't be common either
[15:42:27] <MrFrakenstine> even for 2Mohm
[15:42:38] <MrFrakenstine> doesnt look like one
[15:42:42] <MrFrakenstine> has the shape of a resistor
[15:42:53] <MrFrakenstine> that is, terminals oposite to each other
[15:43:03] <amee2k> okay
[15:43:06] <MrFrakenstine> +--()----+
[15:43:07] <amee2k> never seen one like that i think
[15:43:13] <amee2k> pic plz?
[15:43:22] <MrFrakenstine> damn ok
[15:43:30] <amee2k> also, any other markings? logos, polarity markings
[15:43:43] <MrFrakenstine> yeah has a logo but I dont recognize the brand
[15:44:14] <MrFrakenstine> has to be a thermistor or something, what else would it be doing over a CPU?
[15:44:21] <MrFrakenstine> touching it?
[15:44:40] <amee2k> no idea
[15:44:42] <mrfrenzy> where is the photo? ;)
[15:44:47] <amee2k> do you have a capacitance meter?
[15:44:47] * mrfrenzy recommends imgur app for the phone
[15:44:51] <MrFrakenstine> amee2k, no
[15:45:23] <amee2k> it could be some odd kind of bypass cap and supply pins are on the opposite side of the IC package under it
[15:46:56] <vectory> have a cupple items here i dont even remember what they were, think caps. one side it has 103 \ C1K written on it, the other side says 020 RC0 or RCU, dunno lol
[15:47:14] <vectory> couple*
[15:47:22] <vectory> any idea?
[15:48:29] <MrFrakenstine> damn camera
[15:59:57] <MrFrakenstine> amee2k, mrfrenzy
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/screenshot0201201222484.png/
[16:00:49] <MrFrakenstine> the other side also reads 47J A5
[16:01:28] <mrfrenzy> I would think that's a capacitor
[16:01:46] <mrfrenzy> what happens if you charge it up to 5V, disconnect power source and then measure voltage?
[16:02:16] <OndraSter> I'd guess it is 10nF
[16:02:25] <OndraSter> considering the 103 value
[16:02:40] <OndraSter> c1k is dielectric type
[16:02:40] <OndraSter> or w/e
[16:03:28] <MrFrakenstine> yeah should be, damn
[16:07:32] <MrFrakenstine> aha found another one
[16:07:59] <MrFrakenstine> who could tell this one is a thermistor?
[16:08:12] <OndraSter> wow
[16:08:19] <OndraSter> would never guess that :P
[16:08:37] <MrFrakenstine> OndraSter, wait for the pic
[16:10:36] <MrFrakenstine> OndraSter,
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/screenshot0201201222593.png/
[16:12:31] <mrfrenzy> diode`?
[16:13:23] <MrFrakenstine> seems so
[16:13:30] <OndraSter> couldbe
[16:13:41] <MrFrakenstine> it is definitely sensitve to temperature
[16:13:42] <OndraSter> looks a bit like zener even, but not like the zeners I have here
[16:13:51] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:13:55] <OndraSter> thermodiode?
[16:14:07] <OndraSter> (does that even exist?)
[16:14:10] <mrfrenzy> all semiconductors are sensitive to temperature
[16:14:15] <OndraSter> yap it does
[16:14:18] <MrFrakenstine> measures around 50k in room temp
[16:14:25] <mrfrenzy> you could grab any old transistor
[16:15:41] <MrFrakenstine> and around 580k reverse biazed
[16:16:02] <vectory> are electrolyte caps suitable for lowpass filters?
[16:16:35] <Valen> depends how low i spose
[16:16:46] <Valen> i wouldn't use an electo in signal processing though
[16:16:52] <Valen> they change a fair bit over time
[16:16:58] <OndraSter> yeah
[16:17:00] <Valen> if its filtering sure
[16:17:07] <OndraSter> they have got like... really high variability
[16:17:11] <OndraSter> 10% at least
[16:17:22] <OndraSter> the good ones
[16:17:39] <Valen> thats the maufacturing spec not even counting aging and temperature ;->
[16:17:56] <OndraSter> yap, they dry out
[16:17:57] <Valen> most of them are +80 -10
[16:18:01] <OndraSter> probably the cause why the old amp won't play
[16:18:04] <vectory> only for debouncing
[16:18:13] <Valen> you shouldn't need one for debounce
[16:18:25] <mrfrenzy> the value I remember is -50 +100
[16:18:25] <OndraSter> I am using 10nF ceramic or whatever are they made of
[16:18:25] <Valen> also debounce is pretty easy to do in software
[16:18:48] <Valen> mrfrenzy: regardless ;->
[16:19:11] <Valen> for debounce a small ceramic will do fine
[16:19:49] <vectory> i know, but my software debounce is so crude, first low level int sets a but to 1, and a timer interrupt sets it to zero once a second, so i wanted to be sure
[16:20:17] <vectory> dont have a small ceramic, at least 22pF is too small
[16:20:36] <vectory> *but=bit
[16:21:02] <OndraSter> buy some, I am spending few krones on them too
[16:21:17] <OndraSter> I think i will first order the board for me, just as all the devices
[16:21:17] <Valen> improve your software debounce if you don't like it
[16:21:17] <OndraSter> and if it all works fine
[16:21:25] <OndraSter> I will make 2nd order with the same stuff for school
[16:21:42] <mrfrenzy> which country are you in OndraSter `?
[16:21:45] <OndraSter> CZE
[16:21:55] <vectory> well, you said electrolyt cap works :)
[16:22:00] <mrfrenzy> okay, we have kronor here in SE
[16:22:10] <OndraSter> SE is? Sweden?
[16:22:15] <vectory> yes
[16:22:16] <Valen> I use an interrupt to trigger the button press, as part of the press it turns the interrupt off then starts a countdown timer to reset it
[16:22:24] <OndraSter> (sorry, I am noob in geography lol)
[16:22:37] <Valen> it also lets you do press and hold for repeat button presses
[16:22:39] <vectory> Valen: dont wanna waste a timer for that
[16:22:45] <BrentBXR_> any of you guys familure with v-usb for the avr?
[16:23:03] <Valen> you dont use it *just* for that, I always have a timer running at ~250hz
[16:23:20] <Valen> i just wait 20 counts or so of that
[16:25:56] <OndraSter> btw, on my board, both Vcc+GND couples are tied together through two 100nF caps and one 100uF electrolytic cap; both AREF and AVCC are tied to VCC and again decoupled by one 100nF cap to GND (each one)
[16:25:59] <OndraSter> should be enough
[16:26:29] <OndraSter> oh and two huge 4700uF caps right after power jack :P
[16:26:35] <OndraSter> with few 100nF
[16:26:52] <OndraSter> there will be huge spikes in current consumation...
[16:27:28] <OndraSter> afk
[16:27:45] <Tom_itx> un afk
[16:28:45] <MrFrakenstine> OndraSter, this is in fact a temperature compensated zener
[16:29:10] <MrFrakenstine> something like the 1N4148
[16:29:19] <Valen> OndraSter: watch for inrush currents
[16:50:38] <OndraLappy> I like this summer
[16:50:38] <OndraLappy> err, winter :P
[16:50:54] <OndraLappy> is it hot in Sweden too?
[17:01:36] <rue_mohr> MrFrakenstine, "303" = 30k
[17:01:51] <rue_mohr> its a germanium diode
[17:02:06] <rue_mohr> prolly pulled out of a radio
[17:18:39] <CapnKernel> BrentBXR_: Hi there. I have used V-USB a few times.
[17:19:05] <BrentBXR_> CapnKernel, I got CDC-232 working on a USBASP hardware device; anyways I was wondering
[17:19:16] <BrentBXR_> if you knew how to send my own text to the terminal;
[17:19:27] <BrentBXR_> i htink i figured it out; but it only works upto 144 chars
[17:19:44] <BrentBXR_> then stops working; im thinking due to the TC_BUFF length variable
[17:19:53] <BrentBXR_> but I tried ++ing and so fourth
[17:19:55] <BrentBXR_> so i dont know
[17:20:47] <CapnKernel> I haven't used CDC
[17:20:59] <CapnKernel> But there will of course be a limit on how much you can send at a time.
[17:21:02] <BrentBXR_> have you used v-usb as a vert com port?
[17:21:06] <CapnKernel> No
[17:21:09] <BrentBXR_> oh
[17:21:17] <eroomde> hi chaps - what are my options for programming and debugging UC3 family devices?hi chaps - what are my options for programming and debugging UC3 family devices?
[17:21:23] <BrentBXR_> Have you made your own software for the v-usb?
[17:21:23] <eroomde> woah sorry
[17:21:24] <CapnKernel> I've used it as a bootloader, and as a keyboard/mouse
[17:21:28] <eroomde> not sure what happened there
[17:21:29] <BrentBXR_> oh
[17:21:39] <eroomde> do i have to shell out for the atmel jtagice or are there other (cheaper) options?
[17:22:10] <Tom_itx> dragon
[17:27:02] <eroomde> Tom_itx: that can program and debug the 32-bit parts?
[17:27:30] <Tom_itx> not that i'm aware of
[17:27:55] <Tom_itx> unless an update in as5 added support for it
[17:29:24] <MrFrakenstine> rue_bed, found out a new way to measure temperature
[17:30:03] <MrFrakenstine> I have a bunch of 1N4148 diodes. their max forward current varies linearly with the ambient temperature
[17:42:52] <pingec> Is an external oscillator crystal usually just connected to some pins of the atmega? I cant find the appropriate diagram on connecting an external crystal?
[17:45:03] <Tom_itx> eroomde what part?
[17:46:56] <Tom_itx> it shows support for some
[17:56:15] <vectory> pingec: there are oscillators and there are crystals, which do you want?
[17:57:10] <pingec> I don't know, which one should I be wanting?
[17:57:16] <pingec> for an atmega to use for usart
[17:58:49] <vectory> oscillator is a clock signal afaik
[17:58:58] <vectory> generally you want a crystal, if you can spare the io pins
[17:59:13] <pingec> datasheet says "Crystal Oscillator"
[18:01:48] <vectory> well, thats what i ment, you connect a crystal to xtal1 and xtal two and on each end a ceramic cap to ground, as close as possible
[18:01:59] <vectory> *and xtal2
[18:02:26] <vectory> theres an illustration in the avr app notes
[18:11:02] <BrentBXR_> Got the vertual serial port working;
[18:11:41] <BrentBXR_> you can buy one of these USBASP boards for 5 bucks; thats cheaper then a FT232 or MCP2200 by itself, not to mention a break out board
[19:09:56] <vectory> so, if m8 runs from battery i want brown out detection, right?
[19:10:40] <vectory> could go without, if it doesnt damage the chip, to save the power. reading the ds to find out how
[19:11:27] <vectory> read a few posts on avrfreaks.com and theusch is commenting in every thread xD
[19:12:24] <Tom_itx> mega8 is 5v right?
[19:12:33] <vectory> 2.7-5
[19:12:40] <Tom_itx> it's an old chip
[19:12:42] <Tom_itx> ancient
[19:12:53] <Tom_itx> not that efficient
[19:13:07] <Tom_itx> compared to a 48 88 etc
[19:13:17] <vectory> sadly, also have t2313 but didnt look in the specs for that yet
[19:13:47] <Tom_itx> likely similar
[19:14:08] <Tom_itx> i don't have much use for the m8 anymore
[19:14:37] <vectory> i know its ancient history to most but it was cheaper
[19:14:51] <Tom_itx> seriously?
[19:15:02] <Tom_itx> last i priced them the new ones were cheaper
[19:15:42] <vectory> prices here suck tbh
[19:15:52] <vectory> and t2313 doesnt have timer2 async op or power save. i still think going to power-save for most of the time is more efficient than running at 32kht constantly, although that might be an alternative
[19:16:30] <vectory> dont know if the code could even run at 32khz
[19:26:12] <inflex> hey peeps
[19:27:41] <vectory> hell-o inflex
[19:40:51] * inflex sneezes
[19:40:53] <inflex> bloody hayfever
[21:22:41] <Tom_itx> inflex, well at least itead replied to me
[21:38:56] <inflex> nice
[21:40:02] <Tom_itx> how do you set FF so when you click on a link it responds instead of ie?
[21:40:17] <Tom_itx> i set it to be the default
[21:41:22] <timemage> Tom_itx, since they keep moving the option, i would say go to about:config search for default, turn off or on whatever option is there for do/don't keep asking.
[21:42:00] <timemage> Tom_itx, looks like checkDefaultBrowser
[21:42:12] <Tom_itx> in ff or ie?
[21:42:17] <Tom_itx> i set it in FF
[21:44:18] <timemage> Tom_itx, ff normally asks if it's not the default. unless checkDefaultBrowser is turned off. if you turn that option on and restart ff in should prompt you. if none of that make sense then i guess i don't understand what you want.
[21:45:23] <Tom_itx> it is the default but when i click a link ie pops up
[21:45:54] <Tom_itx> maybe i need to restart it
[21:47:38] <timemage> well, the actual setting belongs to explorer. i don't know offhand where you would go to set it. easier for me to just coerce the browser into setting it.
[21:49:44] <Tom_itx> restarting fixed it
[21:50:46] <timemage> meaning that it reprompted to set default, yeah?
[21:51:00] <Tom_itx> no, ff just came up
[21:51:13] <timemage> hmm. ok.
[21:51:27] <Tom_itx> thanks
[21:52:48] <vectory> quick question: sram and registers share one afress space, so does in/out or lds work with indirekt adressing too? in other words: is out $0, $20 == mov r0, r16 ? dont suppose so, is there a way o adress registers indrectly?
[21:54:21] <vectory> oh the typos >_<
[21:56:16] <timemage> vectory, not sure exactly what you're asking, but it if's can I access general registers through memory, then yeah, you can.
[21:56:26] <vectory> sec, thats cool
[21:57:06] <vectory> i want: ldi r16, $21; ld r0, r16 to move r17 to r0 :D
[21:57:30] <vectory> should try in a simulator
[21:58:04] <vectory> wait, that cant work
[21:59:05] <vectory> but with Z register it would work, ye? kool
[22:47:55] <doublebeta> http://i.imgur.com/Px7PE.jpg PMSL!!!
[22:52:58] <inflex> does remind me, some guy died here in AU due to a fire-cracker blowing up in his face
[22:54:45] <rue_mohr> thats part of whats great about australlia, the darwin evolutionary process still holds up
[22:58:16] <inflex> mmm... going to try using acid-flux on my itead PCBs that are having issues with solderability
[22:58:36] <Valen> wash when yer done
[22:59:24] <Valen> the boards that is
[22:59:34] <inflex> yeah, that's an obvious bit :p
[23:00:12] <inflex> I might actually just try a wipe-down with HCl
