Back
[00:19:31] <raden> Casper, AVR STUDIO 4
[00:19:46] <raden> upgraded to AVR STUDIO 5 and updated AVR ISP MKII firmware all worked
[00:19:46] * Casper slaps raden
[00:20:02] <raden> i had everything the latest for AVR 4
[00:20:43] <raden> there was a issue with the toolchain as ewell
[00:20:51] <raden> but now it works as expected
[00:20:57] <raden> kinda ridiculous if u ask me
[00:21:09] <raden> I'm thinking of getting a STK-500 and running it on linux
[00:22:25] <raden> Casper, is there a AVR chip that supports ethernet ?
[00:24:34] <Casper> don't know, but there is some modules
[00:27:16] <jacekowski> raden: there are hardware tcp/ip stacks that do
[00:27:25] <jacekowski> raden: and can interface with avr
[00:29:36] <inflex> I think there is an ethernet AVR... you just have to supply the magnetics
[00:29:45] <raden> hmmmmm
[00:53:10] <jacekowski> talking about magnetics
[00:53:13] <jacekowski> and lack of thereof
[00:53:22] <jacekowski> i have cheap network card without magnetics
[00:54:16] <jacekowski> i couldn't believe when i've seen it thinking that they must be using those integrated sockets
[00:54:19] <jacekowski> but no
[00:54:23] <jacekowski> it's really that cheap
[01:04:10] <keenerd> raden: There are 18 AVRs with ethernet support built in, but they are all 32 bit chips. Smallest one is 64 pins. (
http://codoba.net/avr/)
[01:05:23] <raden> Nice
[01:05:39] <raden> 32 bit a issue at all ?
[01:07:42] <keenerd> Dunno, never played with any of them.
[01:09:48] <raden> Casper, is it possible with just a AVR and a ethernet controller
[01:10:01] <raden> keenerd, would i be better off just interfacing a AVR with a ethernet controller
[01:13:02] <bram_> raden: you could try interfacing to a ENC28J60
[01:13:55] <bram_> raden: or interface to an arduino shield
[01:19:36] <raden> bram_, nice ...
[01:19:42] <raden> il look into that
[01:19:52] <raden> bram_, what you do for a living you seem very knowledgable
[01:27:16] <bram_> i'm "embedded hardware/software engineer" whehe
[01:32:24] <jacekowski> decent hobbyist will know that stuff as well
[01:43:19] <raden> bram_, the world makes sense again ...
[01:43:26] <raden> you ever do contract work ?
[01:43:36] <raden> or freelance stuff ?
[04:10:07] <GeorgeJ> Hello folks
[04:31:24] <inflex> hi GeorgeJ
[04:32:23] <GeorgeJ> Has anyone had any success in integrating simavr with Eclipse AVR?
[06:04:55] <Sgt_Lemming> https://picasaweb.google.com/115277388924201849210/LaserCut#5688915975367377986
[06:29:33] <norbi> Tom_itx: thank you for the links!
[07:37:16] <OndraSter> so, any 8051 "expert" here? :P
[07:37:28] <OndraSter> I want to dump some 8051's firmware (and possibly extend it and flash back)
[07:37:37] <OndraSter> but it is not Atmel's 8051 clone
[07:37:40] <OndraSter> it is some Nuvoton
[07:37:45] <Steffanx> Fancyt
[07:37:47] <Steffanx> -t
[07:37:51] <OndraSter> it speaks about flashing in the manual
[07:37:55] <OndraSter> but nothing about it
[07:37:59] <OndraSter> how to actually achieve it
[07:58:31] <vectory> OndraSter: possibly using industry grade pal programming equipment, no isp
[07:58:46] <vectory> wheres the datasheet?
[07:59:44] <OndraSter> http://www.google.cz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=w78e052ddg&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nuvoton.com%2FNuvotonMOSS%2FCommunity%2FProductInfo.aspx%3Ftp_GUID%3D4f6be05d-de60-452b-a20d-f2759bbfb74d&ei=rDXzTvShCabk4QSr3NGNCA&usg=AFQjCNFCdwo1vxMrrNVSgCt_7RJMliAchQ
[07:59:47] <OndraSter> omg google tracking URL
[08:00:11] <vectory> btw, why has a galep zif sockets for 100+ pins, are the 100+ pin chips?
[08:08:31] <norbi> somebody worked with latest opencv?
[08:08:57] <vectory> whats cv?
[08:09:07] <norbi> :P
[08:09:12] <norbi> opencv
[08:09:12] <norbi> :D
[08:10:49] <Steffanx> Download the lib and play with it norbi :)
[08:15:15] <karlp> also, the correct response to, "what is opencv?" is never, "opencv"
[08:20:47] <norbi> Steffanx: i did, the problem is the include files are not organised... i did cmake, but the builds are fine, the include is the problem
[08:21:21] <norbi> guys, from #opencv are not responding to explain why the directories are dropped in modules and how to handle that
[08:27:14] <Steffanx> This isn't the right channel either
[08:27:46] <norbi> yea..
[08:27:47] <norbi> sry
[09:17:23] <vectory> OndraSter: the ds says the chip can be protected. assume its locked and you cant easily read it out
[09:17:42] <OndraSter> why should I assume that?
[09:17:43] <OndraSter> it is china
[09:17:47] <OndraSter> they do not protect it usually :P
[09:18:26] <vectory> maybe they have american contractors, also its a security product iirc
[09:18:54] <OndraSter> sure it is security product, but it is china :D
[09:18:59] <OndraSter> I doubt they have american contractors
[09:22:19] <vectory> how so?
[09:22:42] <OndraSter> china, $8 product
[09:22:47] <OndraSter> americans = minimum $20 :D
[09:30:28] <karlp> I'm still not sure how you make the jump to assuming that there'll be no readout protection in place
[09:37:02] <GeorgeJ> Hmm, considering I've got a function, apply_masks(volatile uint8_t* port, uint8_t *masks, uint8_t mask_cnt) {uint8_t i; for(i = 0; i < mask_cnt; i++){port |= masks[i]}}
[09:37:36] <GeorgeJ> Would it be faster to store the initial port value in a variable, modify bits on that variable and then apply the masks?
[09:41:49] <GeorgeJ> s/modify the bits/apply the masks/
[09:42:17] <GeorgeJ> Grr. Would it be faster to store the initial port value in a variables, apply the masks and then write the value to the port?
[09:47:14] <OndraSter> karlp, I've had here few chinese stuff already
[09:47:31] <OndraSter> they could be taken apart and reverse-engineered usually just fine
[09:52:31] <j4cbo> GeorgeJ: yes.
[10:41:06] <edboogie2011> hey guys. if I know the beta value of my 10k NTC thermistor. and I have the thermistor setup in a voltage divider going into an ADC, I calculate resistance of the thermistor, how do I use that resistance and beta value to calculate the termperature?
[10:43:34] <OndraSter> isn't it something like (resistance-some constant)*beta?
[10:43:48] <OndraSter> and you get the dynamic resistance
[10:43:53] <OndraSter> wait
[10:43:54] <OndraSter> let me think
[10:44:34] <OndraSter> okay, do you have datasheet for it?
[10:44:39] <OndraSter> with the beta
[10:44:45] <edboogie2011> well i'm trying to find a good guide with some equation, the equation is lke beta ^ (T - T0)
[10:44:50] <edboogie2011> yeah but its in chinese
[10:44:55] <edboogie2011> i can't read it
[10:44:59] <edboogie2011> it has a lookup table
[10:44:59] <OndraSter> heh
[10:45:04] <OndraSter> send it anyway
[10:45:09] <edboogie2011> to go from resistance to beta
[10:45:10] <edboogie2011> ok
[10:45:31] <edboogie2011> is there a site to post pdf files like imageshack or pastebin style?
[10:45:37] <OndraSter> dropbox?
[10:52:03] <edboogie2011> OndraSter:
http://www.robomatic.com/download/10K-NTC-data.pdf
[10:52:06] <edboogie2011> here you go
[10:52:53] <edboogie2011> anybody know the thermistor beta equation?
[10:54:03] <OndraSter> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor#B_parameter_equation
[10:54:11] <Sgt_Lemming> anyone here familiar with altium?
[10:54:56] <edboogie2011> OndraSter: are you sure the B equation is the same as the beta equation?
[10:55:07] <edboogie2011> look different
[10:55:07] <OndraSter> well it looks like it could be it
[10:55:56] <OndraSter> http://tinkerish.com/blog/?p=88
[10:55:59] <OndraSter> check this guy's source code
[10:58:19] * OndraSter likes digital thermometers
[10:59:25] <edboogie2011> OndraSter: danm i looked at his code, he uses steinhardt hardt model.. which is better, but I can't get manufacturers info on the steinhardt hardt constants
[10:59:33] <OndraSter> hmm
[10:59:39] <edboogie2011> steinhardt hardt would be ideal
[10:59:49] <edboogie2011> since my system already has that equation programmed
[11:00:06] <edboogie2011> if there is an easy way to convert beta value to steinhardt hardt
[11:00:10] <edboogie2011> that would be great
[11:02:45] <karlp> or lookup tables?
[11:02:57] <karlp> depending on how much ram you have...
[11:03:29] <karlp> I shipped the curve decoding off the measurement device and onto the host myself, but you might not have a separate host like I do.
[11:29:49] <edboogie2011> i don't like the concept of lookup tables especially since most of them are derived from equations not experimentally
[11:35:30] <Kevin`> edboogie2011: lookup tables for an equation are normally used when the equation is very computationally expensive
[11:37:37] <edboogie2011> oh right. i forgot
[11:41:40] <vectory> is 3.8 mA enough to make a LED shine soewhere between dimm and bright?
[11:42:37] <Kevin`> yeah, usually
[11:56:00] <GeorgeJ> Are there any gamma correction methods that don't involve floating point arithmetic?
[12:12:15] <vectory> "9V 'transistor radio' batteries are NOT appropriate for high power LEDs unless you want to measure runtime in seconds." well, what else?
[12:16:33] <Kevin`> vectory: AA cells are pretty cheap and relatively high power. if you are using a lot of power though, perhaps mains, or a sealed-lead-acid?
[12:17:40] <vectory> 3 AA cells would also save me the 7805 volt regulator
[12:17:48] <vectory> volt-regulator*
[12:18:29] <Kevin`> yeah, you don't really want to use a voltage regulator on batteries
[12:18:56] <Kevin`> it's strange that so many examples use a 9v battery with 7805
[12:19:09] <Kevin`> low capacity battery, then eat half of the capacity as heat
[12:19:10] <Kevin`> :/
[12:21:56] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:22:11] <OndraSter> I like Ultrafire 3.7V
[12:22:25] <vectory> not enough for atmega8 );
[12:22:34] <vectory> need 4,5 at least
[12:22:55] <OndraSter> hmm
[12:23:00] <OndraSter> 16MHz required you say?
[12:24:39] <OndraSter> why are xmegas so expensive :(
[12:25:23] <vectory> oh right, megas start from 3.3V -_-
[12:25:31] <OndraSter> yap
[12:26:10] <vectory> omg, if this online calculator is right, having an LED in series with 1k ohm connected to 3 AA 1.5V with 2000mAh
[12:26:27] <vectory> think the led has 1V voltage drop and gets 4 mA
[12:26:48] <vectory> ... then it will last only 20 days?
[12:27:22] <OndraSter> well 4mA
[12:27:27] <OndraSter> 3xAA = 4.5V
[12:27:38] <OndraSter> P = U×I = 4.5×4m
[12:27:44] <OndraSter> 18mW
[12:27:55] <OndraSter> or 4mAh discharge
[12:28:07] <OndraSter> now how big are those batteries?
[12:28:09] <OndraSter> capacity in mAh
[12:28:16] <vectory> 2000
[12:28:20] <vectory> as i ssaid
[12:28:21] <OndraSter> 2000/4
[12:28:29] <OndraSter> that's 500 hours
[12:28:38] <OndraSter> that's about 21 days... yeah
[12:28:53] <OndraSter> it will be actually a bit more, since the voltage will drop, and less current will flow
[12:28:58] <vectory> whats with the mW?
[12:29:07] <OndraSter> that's power output
[12:31:45] <vectory> most energy is burned in the resistor i guess
[12:32:19] <OndraSter> the resistor burns 2.5 more times than the LED
[12:33:35] <vectory> but how can clocks or firealarms sustain years of operation? i feel like im missing sth
[12:36:48] <Kevin`> vectory: if you want to drive a large led light efficiently, use an buck or similar smps regulated for constant current
[12:37:15] <Kevin`> vectory: clocks and fire alarms don't waste any energy
[12:37:45] <Kevin`> vectory: LCD displays on a clock take a lot less power than an led, also
[12:38:54] <vectory> but, the lamp on my tv, when its on standby, burns like one pack of batteries a month? thats what, hundred $/y
[12:38:56] <Kevin`> vectory: atmega8 is an old chip design, newer ones (even in the atmega series) have wider operating ranges
[12:39:14] <vectory> the pico power
[12:39:53] <Kevin`> vectory: the power supply driving the light and all the other standby circuitry will draw a lot more power than the light itself
[12:40:13] <Kevin`> especially if the tv isn't certified to be low power
[12:40:24] <vectory> zomg
[12:40:42] <Kevin`> if you are in such a situation, just turn it off at the mains
[12:40:55] <vectory> my parents never turned it of completely, what a waste. i just copied their behaviour
[12:42:41] <Steffann> So we can blame your parents for everything vectory ? :)
[12:45:38] <vectory> nah, but my mother studied physics for the better part of her diploma, woulda expected more consideration
[12:46:46] <Kevin`> maybe it was more annoying vs pressing the button on the remote to turn it on
[12:49:01] <vectory> so all the batterie powered avr devices cant run longer than a month or two, thats sad
[12:49:35] <OndraSter> yap
[12:49:43] <OndraSter> PIC has some ultra-nano-ato-feto power devices
[12:49:45] <OndraSter> not sure how about atmel
[12:50:17] <OndraSter> or at least one dude is shoving it up my face :(
[12:51:39] <Kevin`> vectory: if you have a battery powered avr device, don't run an LED from it all the time, duh. the led uses much more power than the microcontroller
[12:52:21] <OndraSter> the AVR can go in terms of uA
[12:52:39] <OndraSter> about 300uA on 1.8V and 1MHz
[12:52:41] <OndraSter> active
[12:52:44] <OndraSter> idle is way less
[12:52:45] <Kevin`> vectory: the idle power usage of most of these microcontrollers is less than the self discharge of some batteries
[12:53:18] <vectory> can it connect straight to the battery?
[12:55:02] <Kevin`> vectory: what else would you do? a regulator wastes a lot of power
[12:55:28] <vectory> i have no idea, thats why i ask you, not google :)
[12:55:33] <Kevin`> if you need a constant voltage somewhere, use a seperate voltage reference that you can turn on and off as needed
[12:55:34] <OndraSter> there are even some ATTinys with builtin small SMPS and can be powered straight off 1.5V cell
[12:55:54] <Kevin`> ..lots of avr chips have an internal voltage reference though
[12:56:08] <vectory> atmel.com says 0.7V for tiny :o
[12:57:02] <Kevin`> vectory: it's more efficient to run a chip off of 2 or 3 cells without the smps than to use that chip, it's kind of a special purpose thing
[12:57:15] <Kevin`> vectory: you can get chips that run normally from 2.8v to 5v
[12:57:16] <Kevin`> erm
[12:57:19] <Kevin`> vectory: you can get chips that run normally from 1.8v to 5v
[14:09:03] <mssssm> Ohai, I have a little question. I'm porting some asm code to C code. I have never used TWI/i2c before, and the asm code requires the i2c bus frequency to be set at 50khz
[14:09:14] <mssssm> Is this easily possible with the i2cmaster library?
[14:19:14] <jacekowski> it should be
[14:19:22] <jacekowski> it's only divider settings
[14:20:48] <grummund> mssssm: do you mean fleury lib? hardware or software i2c? which AVR? what system clock frequency?
[14:34:41] <mssssm> grummund: Yes, but you can suggest me another library to use. Atmega48. 50khz i2c SCL
[14:34:45] <mssssm> http://www.lll.lu/~edward/edward/adsb/adsb.asm
[14:35:14] <grummund> mssssm: i used fleury lib for i2c without problem
[14:39:12] <OndraSter> http://www.liquidware.com/shop/show/QCT/QuadCore+Tower+Kit
[14:39:13] <OndraSter> heh
[14:39:19] <OndraSter> token-ring-ed arduinos
[14:39:29] <OndraSter> I never thought I'd see that
[14:39:36] <mssssm> Token ring? o_O
[14:41:02] <OndraSter> well something like token-ring
[14:41:07] <OndraSter> I doubt it is real tokenring :)
[14:44:19] <mssssm> grummund: nevermind, I'll just set the i2c frequency to 100khz. Thanks
[16:17:59] <chupas> http://pastebin.com/pLXv4ju9
[16:18:07] <chupas> anyone have any idea why thats crashing
[16:18:34] <chupas> its just simpley supposed to spit out ascii 808's untill it recieves a 0x15, which it should then transmitt the array
[16:18:50] <chupas> but after it sets the state to 1 in the ISR, it crashes, and goes to reset vector
[16:19:09] <Steffann> Which microcontroller?
[16:19:17] <chupas> mega1284p
[16:21:15] <chupas> looking in the 1284p header file it says : #define USART0_RX_vect _VECTOR(20) /* USART0, Rx Complete */
[16:21:22] <chupas> but the data sheet says:
[16:21:33] <chupas> 21 $0028 USART0_RX USART0 Rx Complete
[16:21:46] <chupas> vector #21
[16:22:03] <OndraSter> numbered from 0 vs from 1
[16:22:09] <chupas> thought so
[16:22:13] <OndraSter> most likely
[16:22:22] <chupas> thats what i ASSUMED
[16:22:53] <chupas> why the hell would it be crashing
[16:22:55] <OndraSter> are you trying it on real device or in emulator?
[16:23:32] <chupas> jtag debug right now on the device
[16:23:53] <OndraSter> oh, can't you step to see at which line it crashes?
[16:24:03] <OndraSter> or it crashes RIGHT after it sets the number?
[16:24:18] <chupas> sets number -> step out of the ISR -> crash
[16:24:24] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:24:28] <chupas> goes to main
[16:25:11] <OndraSter> something similar was happening here to other person today
[16:25:17] <OndraSter> except it froze instead resetting
[16:25:37] <chupas> Well it dosent happen instantly
[16:25:41] <OndraSter> are you using avr studio 4 or 5 :)
[16:25:47] <chupas> 4 still
[16:25:52] <OndraSter> try 5, it helped the other guy
[16:25:55] <chupas> ugh
[16:26:00] <chupas> have they fixed breakpoints yet?
[16:26:05] <chupas> and all that jazz
[16:26:10] <Steffann> No new version of winavr?
[16:27:05] <chupas> I am running the last revision
[16:27:10] <chupas> 01/20/10
[16:27:13] <chupas> i belive
[16:28:13] <OndraSter> avr studio 4 and 5 can work next to each other
[16:28:16] <OndraSter> I have both installed :)
[16:28:17] <OndraSter> and running
[16:28:29] <chupas> I guess I have no choice
[16:28:30] <OndraSter> not sure if it wouldn't flash your JTAG tool to newer version though
[16:28:47] <chupas> Oh yea, ide like to avoid that headache
[16:29:18] <chupas> what is the latest 5.0?
[16:29:39] <chupas> 5.0.1163
[16:29:42] <OndraSter> 5.0.1163 I have, downloaded abouth a monthago
[16:29:49] <chupas> Ok
[16:34:55] <chupas> JTAG ICE firmware upgrader does not want to wrok
[16:35:09] <chupas> ughhh
[16:35:21] <OndraLappy> JTAG ICE?
[16:35:24] <OndraLappy> the original?
[16:35:26] <OndraLappy> mkI
[16:35:30] <chupas> mkII
[16:35:55] <chupas> OK there we go
[16:35:58] <chupas> nm
[16:38:10] <chupas> Eh seems to be the same Issue in AVR 5
[16:38:47] <chupas> im gona post on the forums
[16:39:10] <OndraLappy> can you pls resend the code? I switched PCs :)
[16:40:05] <chupas> http://pastebin.com/pLXv4ju9
[16:42:28] <OndraLappy> and it crashes no matter where from it interrupted?
[16:42:57] <chupas> I believe so
[16:43:08] <OndraLappy> that's weird
[16:43:18] <chupas> I thought so too.
[16:44:10] <OndraLappy> and what if you take the "volatile" from the state?
[16:44:12] <OndraLappy> and from the data
[16:46:39] <OndraLappy> probably a bad question: do you have set up proper MCU in the project settings? :P
[16:47:03] <chupas> yea i do. I thought that might be it too
[16:47:10] <chupas> leme try the volatile thing
[16:47:43] <OndraLappy> I am no C/C++ genius
[16:47:50] <OndraLappy> actually I am C noob
[16:51:21] <chupas> HUMMMMMMMMMMMMmmm
[16:51:24] <chupas> didnt crash
[16:51:38] <chupas> it dont like volatile i guess
[16:51:57] <OndraLappy> volatile is dangerous appearantly
[16:52:05] <OndraLappy> the other guy today had it there too :P
[16:52:17] <chupas> I have never experenced that before
[16:52:43] <Steffann> Which volatile is hte problem chupas ?
[16:52:47] <Steffann> On 'state' or ..
[16:53:00] <chupas> not sure yet. I disabled them both, trying to get my serial term working
[16:53:07] <chupas> ill test in a moment
[16:54:11] <Steffann> I'm still pretty sure the state should be volatile
[16:54:29] <chupas> yea. its outside main
[16:55:31] <chupas> AHh i think i spoke too soon
[16:55:41] <chupas> Not sure what I saw before but its crashing still
[16:56:03] <Steffann> The FAQ of AVR-Libc says something about the 'volatile'-keyword
[16:56:11] <Steffann> Hehe chupas
[16:56:18] <Steffann> You tried it in the simulator?
[16:56:23] <Steffann> I wonder what it does in the simulator
[16:56:30] <OndraLappy> simulator sucks
[16:56:34] <chupas> ^^^^
[16:56:34] <OndraLappy> UART doesn't work there
[16:56:37] <chupas> can you even do uart in sim
[16:56:39] <chupas> lol
[16:56:46] <OndraLappy> setting any bit won't work
[16:56:50] <OndraLappy> in the UART registers
[16:56:53] <OndraLappy> from the simulator
[16:56:55] <OndraLappy> aka data ready etc
[16:56:56] <Steffann> I don't use AS anyway :)
[16:58:19] <OndraLappy> oh and also
[16:58:22] <OndraLappy> optimalization can make difference
[16:58:25] <OndraLappy> in the volatile thingy
[16:58:51] <chupas> Where is the optimazion setting in AVR5
[16:58:58] <OndraLappy> in project settings
[16:59:19] <OndraLappy> I don't have AVR studio on my laptop
[16:59:21] <OndraLappy> can't check
[16:59:38] <Steffann> Go back to your other pc :P
[16:59:44] <OndraLappy> no need to
[16:59:52] <OndraLappy> Wake On LAN + remoet desktop :)
[16:59:55] <OndraLappy> remote*
[16:59:56] <Steffann> :)
[17:00:54] <chupas> Well i posted on the forums because I need to go eat
[17:00:59] <chupas> Thanks for the help OndraLappy
[17:01:02] <OndraLappy> np
[17:21:48] <grummund> chupas: i didn't read all the scroll back, is the code working for you now?
[17:22:17] <Steffann> no grummund
[17:22:23] <OndraLappy> I'd understand that there might be happening stack overflow
[17:22:27] <OndraLappy> but... how and where
[17:23:11] <grummund> what's the behaviour? do we know that the rx ISR does actually run?
[17:24:05] <Steffann> [23:15:37] <chupas> sets number -> step out of the ISR -> crash
[17:24:22] <grummund> oh, running in a debugger?
[17:24:27] <Steffann> jtag
[17:24:43] <Tom_itx> isr's don't behave in debug
[17:24:50] <Steffann> ofcourse they do
[17:29:40] <grummund> whatever. try it without a debugger if that hasn't been done already
[17:45:23] <grummund> fwiw i can't see anything obviously wrong with that code
[17:46:05] <grummund> that would cause a reset i mean
[17:50:47] <grummund> definetly try it outside the debugger. and inspect MCUSR for cause upon reset.
[17:52:04] <grummund> and write a handler for ISR(BADISR_vect)
[18:34:22] <vectory> could it hurt to have a crystal connected, before and while setting the fuses?
[18:36:02] <vectory> the fuses for external clock
[18:38:56] <vectory> oh, and is the size of 36pF of the internal caps appropriate for 32kHz clocksource application?
[18:40:09] <vectory> or should i follow the crystal datasheet and use 12,5 pF
[18:40:14] <vectory> most likely, eh
[18:41:12] <Casper> vectory: remember
[18:41:19] <Casper> external clock is NOT external crystal
[18:44:07] <vectory> hm, i remember sth like this
[18:44:25] <vectory> i mean, crystal on xtal1 and 2
[18:45:46] <vectory> to use it cksel has to be set
[18:46:27] <vectory> when programming the rc clock of the chip is used, does it hurt to have the crystal already connected or is it a must, even?
[18:47:43] <vectory> well, will want to use asynchronous timer anyway, i guess. might have to sleep over it and read the whole datasheet
[19:00:32] <vectory> how stable is m8 with 3V Vcc?
[19:02:22] <vectory> lol, thought it was specified 3.3V to 5V
[19:02:34] <vectory> k
[19:02:40] <vectory> thats it for tonight
[19:07:30] <jadew> can anyone help me read some ceramic capacitors? they're not using the 123 = 12 * 10^3 code, nor the color code
[19:08:56] <jadew> I've got pictures
[20:30:56] <rue_house> pls post
[20:31:32] <rue_house> whats the code in question?
[20:31:37] <rue_house> jadew,
[20:37:21] <jadew> sorry for the late reply
[20:37:43] <jadew> rue_house, the one that matters the most:
http://imagebin.org/189956
[20:37:55] <jadew> I need a confirmation that it's 0.1 uF
[20:38:32] <jadew> then, there's this one I can't read:
http://imagebin.org/189957 it's too big to be in pico and still have a . in front of the number, so I don't know what to make of it
[20:38:39] <jadew> also this one:
http://imagebin.org/189958
[20:41:17] <rue_house> first is 10pf
[20:41:26] <rue_house> second is .005uF
[20:41:34] <rue_house> third is .082uF
[20:41:46] <jadew> thanks a lot
[20:41:56] <rue_house> :)
[20:42:10] <jadew> I fail to find a 0.1uF one in my stack
[20:42:20] <jadew> when I read the colors I read them top to bottom, right?
[20:42:26] <rue_house> no "103" ?
[20:42:33] <jadew> shouldn't that be 104?
[20:42:40] <rue_house> oops yea
[20:42:46] <jadew> yeah, no 104
[20:42:50] <jadew> however I found this one:
http://imagebin.org/189960
[20:42:55] <rue_house> cause 105 is 1uF
[20:42:59] <jadew> yeah
[20:43:17] <rue_house> eeek, tooo old :) ->meuseum
[20:43:17] <jadew> brown, black, yellow = 104, isn't it?
[20:43:46] * rue_house sticks his head in the sand
[20:43:56] <jadew> heh
[20:44:27] <jadew> I guess, I'll have to look trough the unsalvaged pcb's or just buy a few of them
[20:44:27] <rue_house> do you not have an ttl based circuit baords?
[20:44:43] <rue_house> 0.1uF is re3ally common
[20:44:49] <rue_house> what kinda pcb's do you have?
[20:44:55] <jadew> really old ones
[20:45:06] <rue_house> do tell
[20:45:12] <rue_house> tv vcr, radio, computer
[20:45:12] <jadew> was into electronics when I was young and I stopped breaking stuff at some age
[20:45:37] <jadew> really old radios and more recent, motherboards, mouse pcb's
[20:46:09] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/183_parts.jpg <-- thats what happens when you do that for long enough
[20:46:24] <rue_house> decoupling for a mouse shoudl be 0.1uF
[20:46:25] <jadew> hah, nice
[20:46:47] <jadew> I only did it when I was younger, I only have a box of those
[20:47:02] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/p1020055.jpg
[20:47:04] <rue_house> better pic
[20:47:21] <jadew> nice robot
[20:48:28] <jadew> let me go trough my PCB boxes
[20:48:30] <rue_house> left to right goes soemthing like ttl, cmos, linear; misc linear, microcontroller and computer, variable resistors, scerws resistors, misc passive transistors, capacitors and fuses
[20:49:05] <jadew> I'll probably have a wall just like that at some point, I just can't afford that right now cuz I'm living in rent
[20:49:15] <jadew> so I wouldn't like to move all that stuff every one or two years
[20:49:27] <rue_house> the shop only cost about $14000 to build
[20:49:39] <jadew> heh
[20:50:06] <rue_house> yea, the property its on cost $200k
[20:50:10] <rue_house> I think
[20:50:35] <jadew> well, that's the keyword, "property"
[20:50:46] <rue_house> where do you live?
[20:50:52] <rue_house> (counrty)
[20:50:52] <jadew> romania
[20:50:55] <rue_house> hmm
[20:51:05] <jadew> it's cheapper in here, but not much cheapper
[20:51:08] <rue_house> we dont see many from those parts
[20:51:37] <rue_house> how did you find out about us here?:
[20:52:18] <jadew> I got my passion for electronics revived about 2 years ago, figured now I have the resources to start playing with microcontrollers
[20:52:28] <jadew> got stuck on atmel
[20:52:35] <jadew> ended up on #avr
[20:52:39] <jadew> don't remember exactly how
[20:52:39] <rue_house> hmm
[20:53:06] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robot_family2.jpg
[20:53:23] <jadew> haha, really nice
[20:53:34] <jadew> my first and only robot would look totally retarded
[20:53:36] <rue_house> my $20 projects
[20:53:43] <jadew> let me see if I can find a picture
[20:53:46] <rue_house> everyone has to start somewhere
[20:53:56] <rue_house> just try to avoid wood and cardboard
[20:54:28] <jadew> actually, I think it's on a backup hdd, it was just a light powered thingie, that would pretty much move in a circle
[20:54:33] <jadew> cuz it only had one wheel
[20:54:41] <rue_house> damn
[20:54:47] <jadew> told you, retarded
[20:55:08] <rue_house> everyone has to start somewhere, a lot of people are too intimmidated to build anything mechanical
[20:55:18] <jadew> was about 14 back then, didn't had money to spend on microcontrollers
[20:55:21] <rue_house> the fact you built anything is a good start
[20:55:25] <rue_house> na
[20:55:51] <rue_house> you dont need microcontrollers, they just make it easier to do complex stuff
[20:56:41] <jadew> yeah, not really into robotics anymore anyway, I mean it does sounds fun, but I'd probably get to it once I finish my other projects
[20:56:59] <rue_house> what are ya working on?
[20:57:53] <jadew> well, right now I want to make a usb measuring device, but I have to build a burner first, since the last one I made worked on the paralel port and I changed my pc since
[20:58:12] <rue_house> :)
[20:58:24] <rue_house> does the new pc have an pata connecotr?
[20:58:29] <jadew> so now, burner, then I need to complete the mesuruing device (which is actually almost ready) I just didn't find the freaking microcontroller I needed
[20:58:29] <rue_house> does it run linux?
[20:58:54] <jadew> it runs linux on a dual boot and only because I need to code under linux from time to time
[20:59:08] <rue_house> k, does it have an ide connector?
[20:59:10] <jadew> I personally hate it as a desktop os
[20:59:13] <jadew> yeah
[20:59:53] <jadew> what kind of trickery can you do trough the ide connection?
[21:00:03] <rue_house> http://hackaday.com/2011/02/03/stk200-pocket-change-programmer/
[21:00:28] <jadew> that's neat
[21:00:56] <jadew> but I wouldn't risk it, would hate to have to change the mb
[21:00:59] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ata2isp/main.html
[21:01:07] <jadew> too much stuff to unscrew and screw back on
[21:02:10] <jadew> funny that guy uses an IBM-M keyboard :D
[21:02:12] <jadew> old school
[21:02:45] <rue_house> yea, its missing some caps, the robotics kids that come in on the weekend hate it
[21:02:57] <jadew> oh, it's yours?
[21:02:58] <rue_house> works way better than the modern junk
[21:03:01] <rue_house> yep
[21:03:04] <jadew> neat
[21:03:06] <jadew> I know it does
[21:03:15] <jadew> I've got one as well, missing a cap too
[21:03:32] <jadew> but I'm not using it anymore since I got so used to the windows key
[21:03:34] <rue_house> heh, I'm missing a few
[21:03:46] <rue_house> heh
[21:03:47] <jadew> got a good replacement tho
[21:04:12] <rue_house> for my main desktop I got a wireless
[21:04:17] <jadew> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rtab
[21:04:26] <rue_house> makes getting the keyboard out of the way of my supper plate easier
[21:04:30] <jadew> yeah, I had wireless as well till the keys got screwed
[21:04:39] <jadew> as it happens eventually on all rubber key switches
[21:04:46] <rue_house> ooo
[21:04:59] <jadew> this one is great tho, mechanical switches AND silent
[21:05:08] <rue_house> yea, I rebuilt my old rubber-cup about 4 times
[21:05:15] <rue_house> clean and lube
[21:05:21] <jadew> well, you can still hear the keys hitting the bottom (the plastic) but it's better than the ibm-m
[21:05:36] <rue_house> with the M you know you didn't miss the key
[21:05:45] <jadew> true
[21:05:55] <rue_house> maybe its the schmidtt effect that makes it better, bot sure
[21:06:12] <rue_house> not sure even
[21:06:20] <rue_house> I find I make less mistakes on the M
[21:06:44] <jadew> well, there's a clear tactile feedback on that one
[21:06:50] <jadew> and the nice click
[21:07:15] <rue_house> but I couldn' ever pay more than $40 for a keyboard
[21:07:18] <jadew> if I didn't live with my g/f I would have got an endurapro
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html
[21:07:36] <jadew> but she hates me typing on the M, so it would have been the same with that one
[21:07:44] <rue_house> haha
[21:08:50] <jadew> I program for a living and if there's something that matters more than the chair, it's the keyboard
[21:09:01] <jadew> $100 is decent for peace of mind
[21:10:51] <jadew> I remember I felt so good once I got a replacement for one of the rubber ones, because I was waiting for so long to smash it
[21:11:17] <jadew> was very therapeuthical
[21:15:32] <jadew> heh, you were right, first capacitor I looked at on a walkman pcb: 104
[21:15:56] <jadew> the mouse pcbs I have at hand use smd components
[21:16:34] <jadew> interresting that there are actually lots of 104's in here, why are they used?
[21:20:03] <rue_house> back
[21:20:06] <rue_house> decoupling
[21:20:49] <rue_house> walkman? various audio
[21:21:22] <jadew> why don't they use 0.2 or something like that?
[21:23:13] <jadew> I never got my head around how exactly they get used tbh, aside from a LC circuit I don't understand much on how capacitors get used
[21:26:19] <jadew> wiki cleared the decoupling part out
[21:28:41] <rue_house> they can be used for frequincy filtering or to shift the dc bias of an ac signal
[21:29:00] <rue_house> in the old days, chained ampliders used to be coupled with transformers, today we use capactiors
[21:33:02] <jadew> interresting, thanks, I know it's not #electronics so I won't go on with the questions, but I'll do the reading
[21:33:37] <rue_house> you can go on about it at length with me in #robtoics
[21:33:42] <jadew> none of the circuits (which were really simple) I designed so far used a capacitor, because I didn't know hot to use them
[21:33:54] <rue_house> cause electronics is a sub disciplin of robotics
[21:34:19] <jadew> cool, I'm in there :D
