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[00:12:56] <vectory> when switching a led matrix, is it best to turn on the leds as often as possible or can sleeping a bit safe power?
[00:18:59] <Casper> vectory: depend... leds are more efficient at low power, so a slower but steady scan could be more efficient
[01:10:14] <nn7> I really dislike AVR Studio 5. It's hard to see when you have compile warnings and it takes 3 times as many clicks to burn a new flash program
[01:15:48] <nn7> anyone else?
[01:21:28] <nn7> ok
[01:21:40] <nn7> why does changing the ADPS? values not change my ADC times?
[01:44:12] <raden> take avr and shove it
[01:44:15] <raden> omg
[01:44:32] <nn7> :D
[01:44:37] <nn7> problems?
[01:44:45] <raden> PA = 1; while( PA == 1 ) { nothing in here will execute }
[01:45:01] <raden> while( 1 ) { nothing in here will execute } everything executes fine
[01:45:18] <raden> int PA; was done
[01:45:22] <raden> I dont get it
[01:45:23] <nn7> show me the code
[01:45:49] <nn7> paste it to pastebin and give me a link
[01:46:13] <raden> http://pastebin.com/PUehf4SL
[01:46:25] <raden> yea its on my windows box took me a min
[01:46:38] <raden> im trying to do much more that that but dont understand wtf is wrong with PA
[01:46:40] <raden> it worked before
[01:47:17] <nn7> so if you change line 24 to "while (1)" it works fine?
[01:47:23] <raden> yup
[01:47:28] <raden> figure that out !!!!!
[01:48:12] <raden> just changed it to 1 works nicely
[01:48:12] <nn7> what if you change the variable name to papapa ?
[01:48:18] <raden> ill try
[01:48:20] <nn7> all three places
[01:48:32] <nn7> I fear "PA" may be reserved
[01:48:58] <raden> nope dont work
[01:49:27] <raden> != 1 it works
[01:49:37] <raden> its like its not getting set at all
[01:50:19] <nn7> hmmm
[01:52:28] <raden> yea please tell me cause im banging my head against the desk
[01:52:38] <raden> frusterating to say the least
[01:53:03] <nn7> what about "while (papapa)"
[01:53:32] <raden> that runs
[01:54:51] <nn7> while (papapa>1)
[01:55:27] <raden> i can set papapa to anything 1000 or 0 etc it just keeps running
[01:55:45] <raden> and I set the delay to a different time each time i upload so i know its getting the changed code
[01:55:57] <raden> makes no sense does it ?
[01:56:18] <raden> restarted the microcontroller it stopped
[01:57:30] <nn7> I didn't mean for you to change what it's set to, just to change the test in ()
[01:58:32] <raden> now my avr wont connect
[01:58:33] <raden> wtf
[01:58:37] <Sgt_Lemming> so, just trying to double check something
[01:58:51] <Sgt_Lemming> atmega1281 will happily run off 3.3v correct?
[01:59:16] <raden> Sgt_Lemming, check datasheet im pretty sure though
[01:59:23] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah
[01:59:30] <Sgt_Lemming> http://oi44.tinypic.com/22i5fp.jpg <--- what I am working on atm
[02:03:53] <vectory> nice
[02:04:42] <Sgt_Lemming> it's the size of a business card with a 160 LED array on it :-D
[02:05:00] <vectory> what for?
[02:05:08] <Sgt_Lemming> shigges :-D
[02:05:18] <raden> lol what u going to use that for ?
[02:05:34] <Sgt_Lemming> see previous comment :-P
[02:06:06] <vectory> how much do you pay for 113 leds
[02:08:11] <Sgt_Lemming> 160, a few cents each
[02:13:03] <Sgt_Lemming> vectory, $0.19 each on digikey
[02:13:11] <Sgt_Lemming> for 5mA green LED's
[02:13:20] <vectory> smd
[02:13:29] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah
[02:13:49] <vectory> cant seem to find cheaper than 0.05€ for thousand
[02:14:05] <Sgt_Lemming> don't really need a thousand of them...
[02:14:09] <vectory> .05 a piece, that is
[02:14:50] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah
[02:15:12] <Sgt_Lemming> what mA/mCd?
[02:15:34] <Sgt_Lemming> heh
[02:36:52] <raden> on a AVR when doing a interrupt shouldnt it completely exit the while loop ?
[02:37:23] <raden> i have a led on for delay 15 seconds my interupt turns it off then when i let off the pin about 3 seconds later returns to the while till the end of the code
[02:40:36] <vectory_> an interrupt returns to the code, that was executing vefore the interrupt.
[02:41:20] <raden> crap
[02:41:24] <raden> can i make it not ?
[02:41:26] <vectory_> raden: when an interrupt is requested, the current command is finished, the programm counter is pushed onto the stack, and the interrupt is serviced
[02:41:48] <raden> vectory_, hmmmm
[02:41:59] <vectory_> on return, the adress from stack gets popped in the pc
[02:44:08] <raden> there has to be a way not to return to the code
[02:44:50] <vectory_> ha, yes, but not in c i guess
[02:46:29] <vectory_> what you can do is, you let the interrupt routine do nothing more than checking a variable to true. then n your loop you can break, when its true, and service the interrupt in the main loop, again checking the car. but i think this could lead to having checks for that variable all over the place
[02:46:46] <vectory_> s/car/var/
[02:46:47] <vectory_> xD
[02:48:14] <vectory_> also, execution of the relevant code is a bit delayed, so you could actually miss an interrupt or not service it soon enough
[02:49:23] <OndraSter> doesn't even FLAG register get pushedonto stack?
[02:49:24] <OndraSter> I mean, MCUCSR
[02:54:06] <vectory_> dont know how c does it
[03:05:06] <raden> when setting a variable in a interrupt how can i pass it to main () ?
[03:48:37] <amee2k> hrm
[03:49:18] <amee2k> well, the code looks fine to me... only thing i can think of without trying to is change variable names to lower case... all the register names and stuff are upper case, maybe it is causing a name collision somewhere
[03:49:42] <vectory_> i was in doubt over that too
[03:49:51] <vectory_> but it really is the reason -_-
[03:49:55] <vectory_> rarely*
[03:50:00] <raden> already did that
[03:50:03] <raden> I dont get it !!
[03:50:09] <amee2k> agreed, but just to be sure
[03:50:43] <vectory_> does it still fgo awry, if you remove the interrupt?
[03:51:01] <Tom_itx> where's ur code?
[03:51:06] <amee2k> mmh, two things... firstly is PB1 flashing too? your code always alternates between the two
[03:51:18] <vectory_> Tom_itx:
http://pastebin.com/r6586AJZ
[03:51:52] <amee2k> secondly your delays are kinda long, if you say it is flashing, how fast is it flashing?
[03:52:07] <raden> no got rid of the flashing issue by putting a delay in main before any code dont know what the deal with that was like it was getting hung on code when it started up
[03:52:24] <vectory_> :S
[03:52:30] <raden> it was flashing like 30 ms on 30 ms off
[03:52:32] <amee2k> o.O
[03:52:35] <vectory_> we were still after that issue
[03:52:43] <raden> just got it
[03:52:51] <raden> i dont get this global variable issue
[03:53:05] <amee2k> did you try another micro? and double check you're compiling for the correct micro
[03:53:23] <raden> i was just thinking that ill grab another micro one min
[03:53:40] <raden> i have a atmega 324AP i have compiler set for 324A
[03:53:55] <Tom_itx> init pa to 0 at the top of main
[03:54:01] <Tom_itx> then compare it
[03:54:30] <Tom_itx> that shouldn't matter
[03:54:40] <amee2k> they can sometimes do funny things when they die
[03:54:49] <raden> amee2k, i agree
[03:54:55] <Tom_itx> it hasn't lived yet
[03:55:37] <Tom_itx> i never use caps for vars in C either
[03:55:50] <Tom_itx> caps are for constants
[03:55:54] <vectory_> its against convention
[03:56:18] <amee2k> getting a name colision between a variable and a macro can do funny things too
[03:56:52] <vectory_> using uppercase without leading underscore for library macros is against convention too, tho
[03:56:58] <vectory_> should be, at least
[03:57:53] <amee2k> some lib junk has underscores too like this useless _BV macro
[03:58:14] <vectory_> its not useless, if you use code completion ;)
[03:58:29] <amee2k> ?
[03:58:50] <vectory_> makes for faster typing
[03:59:00] <amee2k> not really
[03:59:02] <vectory_> or not
[03:59:06] <vectory_> ok -.-
[03:59:28] <amee2k> it makes code less readable, especially if you don't know it or forgot about it... then you think something fancy and important is happening
[03:59:46] <amee2k> and it isn't shorter than a normal shift either
[04:00:24] <amee2k> defining that macro for a bit shift is about as useless as "#define ONE 1" or something like that
[04:01:21] <amee2k> null is a particular exception because it has a cast to void* too, but also so it stands out in the code
[04:01:32] <amee2k> lots of editors highlight the latter, for example
[04:01:47] <amee2k> bah, why do i always have to rant about stuff like that >_<
[04:02:15] <amee2k> makes me sounds like some wanabe elitist prick from #ubuntu
[04:02:27] <vectory_> lolwut
[04:02:41] <vectory_> now that you say it, didnt i see you there?
[04:02:55] <vectory_> could be you helped me with a noob problem :P
[04:03:29] <amee2k> guess why i don't hang out there (never really did but anyway) :P
[04:03:45] <amee2k> also, i publicly declared that i don't like Unity
[04:03:55] <vectory_> who didnt
[04:04:04] <vectory_> some people "got used to it" xD
[04:04:10] <amee2k> everyone who didn't get kicked?
[04:04:16] <amee2k> :P
[04:04:26] <raden> changed chips still nothing
[04:04:34] <raden> Lemee throw up some code
[04:04:49] <vectory_> why did you try another delay and how did that solve it?
[04:05:07] <vectory_> amee2k: did you say, you dont like the newbs in #ubuntu?
[04:05:21] <raden> i threw a delay before i flashed the leds when the chip came on and it solved it
[04:09:09] <raden> http://pastebin.com/AAzgSeRV
[04:09:13] <raden> Tom_itx, ^^
[04:09:17] <raden> amee2k, ^^
[04:09:53] <raden> where volatile int cnt is nothing will work with cnt variable
[04:10:12] <raden> after int PA in main where int cnt is commmented if i use that one everything works fine
[04:11:19] <raden> vectory_, ^^
[04:11:27] <vectory_> raden: the first sentence could use punctuation, cant read it :S
[04:11:39] <raden> sorry i really tired ; (
[04:11:44] <raden> 4 am here
[04:11:49] <vectory_> );
[04:12:10] <vectory_> then sleep a night over it, if you will motivate yourself to continue tomorrow
[04:12:20] <raden> im gonna have to
[04:12:35] <raden> do globals need to be enabled on the chip or defined where there stored or something /
[04:12:41] <raden> This just does not makes sense
[04:12:59] <raden> i can define and set a global and try to set a pin with it in main and wont take
[04:13:38] <amee2k> vectory_: i'm all fine with noobs, i was one long enough and for some things still am
[04:14:00] <amee2k> what i can't stand is the whole religious attitude thing. makes ubuntu feel like poor man's apple junk
[04:14:56] <amee2k> say some random window manager sucks in a debian or whatever channel and noone gives a fuck. say unity was a dick move and you're a heretic
[04:15:56] <amee2k> no shit they can't stand hearing that anymore... the truth hurts or something :P
[04:16:07] <vectory_> amee2k: its called flaming
[04:16:25] <vectory_> and nearly noone likes that in a support channel
[04:16:37] <vectory_> go to -offtopic, noone cares
[04:18:40] <raden> lmao
[04:21:40] <amee2k> vectory_: it is called wishful thinking, or amercan presidential elections. if you deny validity to all opinions that don't patriotically harmonize with your own, you can always tell yourself you're doing the right thing no matter what
[04:22:17] <amee2k> no shit unity is all popular any anything if you don't accept opinions against it
[04:24:35] <vectory_> i think its people who work hard to help and be a service to society feeling offended. thats human
[04:26:32] <vectory_> there is a relation to politics tho, as they take their "altruism" as excuse for everything
[04:27:06] <vectory_> but #ubuntu is really just a support channel, sadly too much newbs in there with problems with itunes and their webcam -_-
[04:28:22] <vectory_> as is said, its too busy to get decent support
[04:28:52] <amee2k> i went off to mint lately anyway
[04:29:51] <amee2k> maybe it isn't entirely unity's fault too... more the disappointment that it had to happen to ubuntu
[04:30:38] <amee2k> because when it all started ubuntu was like "debian with binary drivers and less license wanking" and actually "just worked". for the most part anyway
[04:30:46] <vectory_> true
[04:31:15] <vectory_> im still on 10.04 LTS till april or oktober, will see how the upgrade works then
[04:31:23] <vectory_> you know you can still install whatever wm you like
[04:31:29] <vectory_> ill just keep gnome2
[04:31:44] <amee2k> and it kind of went all downhill for the last year or two... screwed up upgrades, kernel panics on boot, and now the lego desktop environment
[04:32:11] <vectory_> thats what you get when you dont run LTS :P
[04:32:44] <vectory_> only thing i felt was needed is the mouilla ppa for firefox > 3.6
[04:33:02] <vectory_> 9.0 as of yesterday, no problems at all
[04:33:14] <amee2k> lts after a while isn't much better than debian. packages are two years old or missing
[04:34:41] <amee2k> lolbrowser... huge LOL when i tried lubuntu a few weeks ago on my laptop. it ships with chromium and lxde as default browser, but chromium doesn't support http proxies unless, hang on, you run gnome or kde or run around editing command lines
[04:34:55] <amee2k> i laughed so hard i almost wet myself
[04:35:10] <amee2k> then i installed firefox
[04:36:42] <vectory_> editing commandlines should be common, its linux after all xD
[04:37:03] <vectory_> all i know about proxies is the PROXY enviroonment var
[04:37:06] <vectory_> -o
[04:37:29] <amee2k> i don't mind command lines, but wtf... disable proxy support if you're not running someone's favourite DE ?? >_<
[04:38:22] <amee2k> editing the shortcuts is mildly awkward for gui programs though, at least it would be for just a proxy. no way to change the config on the fly
[04:39:01] <amee2k> and never being sure you really caught all lingering references to a common program like a browser
[04:39:40] <amee2k> i'd rather replace the binary with a wrapper script i suppose, but chromium didn't really convince me that much in general so i left it
[05:02:07] <vectory_> amee2k: i think the reason for unity was gnome3 sucking just as much
[05:02:15] <vectory_> without having tested
[05:02:39] <vectory_> i would have prefered a good overhaul of gnome2
[05:05:32] <vectory_> i dont like change >_<
[05:08:43] <karlp_> amee2k: it's not that they disabled proxy support, it'
[05:08:54] <karlp_> s that chrmium defers all of it to the system
[05:08:57] <karlp_> instead of building it in.
[05:12:52] <amee2k> karlp_: if you can't configure one it is pretty much the same as disabling it, no?
[05:13:58] <amee2k> i'm all for adopting the system setting as default, but if they went far enough to make a fancy error message they might as well add an entry field to configure my own if it can't find the system setting
[05:14:07] <amee2k> or if i want to override the system default for some reason
[05:14:34] <amee2k> "sorry, you can't have proxies unless you use gnome" is like showing me the finger
[05:15:12] <amee2k> also, lol points at the lubuntu maintainers for shipping with a crippled default browser
[05:15:14] <karlp_> it's more, "we use the system, we know how to open up the gui system settings box for this environment: gnome. if you have another environment, we don't know how to automatically start the appropriate proxy configuration tool, do it yourself"
[05:15:46] <amee2k> karlp_: well, that was essentially the message, except for the "do it yourself" part
[05:16:04] <karlp_> but that message is a far far cry from, "disable proxy support" which is what you said
[05:16:17] <amee2k> which is what it does
[05:16:26] <karlp_> (I'm not disputing that the user experience sucks for you, it sucks for all of us)
[05:16:33] <karlp_> as vectory said, 10.04 LTS,
[05:17:04] <amee2k> if they want to peen on user-friendliness, then letting me go around write wrapper scripts or change shortcuts isn't exactly the way to go
[05:17:21] <karlp_> remember, lubuntu is not ubuntu....
[05:17:34] <amee2k> last time i checked it was an official variant
[05:18:03] <karlp_> where did you check that?
[05:18:21] <karlp_> it's a "formal member of the ubuntu family"
[05:18:35] <amee2k> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/lubuntu-made-official-ubuntu-derivative/
[05:18:45] <amee2k> if they stick their name tag on it, they're gonna have to swallow it whole :P
[05:18:53] <karlp_> but that's far cry from being an iso on ubuntu.com
[05:19:01] <karlp_> I disagree
[05:20:06] <ziph> ./leave #linuxcirclejerk
[05:20:25] <karlp_> linux sucks. just that the alternatives are worse...
[05:20:35] <amee2k> also, chromium devs cutting corners on the config dialog isn't an ubuntu issue either
[05:21:04] <karlp_> cutting corners, or not confusin the issue and having network settings in multiple places?
[05:21:27] <karlp_> sometimes it's nice to have different settings for one browser, sometimes it's not.
[05:21:32] <karlp_> but I don't think it was "cutting corners"
[05:21:53] <karlp_> I think it was a pretty serious decision to defer to the system
[05:23:24] <inflex> bloody hell... religious bs here I see
[05:23:29] <inflex> shouldn't this be in #electronics ?
[05:23:44] <ziph> Linux could blow me and all my mates and I still wouldn't want to listen to people talk about it. ;)
[05:24:13] <ziph> And the whole democracy line is a bit old isn't it? :)
[05:26:24] <karlp_> who the hell brought up democracy?
[05:26:32] <inflex> democracy?
[05:26:38] <inflex> wtf is that?
[05:26:45] <ziph> "linux sucks. just that the alternatives are worse..."
[05:27:32] <ziph> It's the Winston Churchill quote on democracy trotted out.
[05:27:54] <karlp_> it could also just be a sentence.
[05:28:20] <ziph> It could be, if Linux people could do anything original. ;)
[05:28:22] <karlp_> I sure was't invoking democracy.
[05:28:50] <karlp_> if I wanted democracy, would I be debating on the ninterwebnet?
[05:58:09] <inflex> gnarr... got a strange bug in my firmware... but not sure if I've got debouncing issues or something software... normally I track a pulse from the coulomb counter chip and increment my internal counter for how many pulses I've received... but every now and then it picks up 20~40 pulses in a quick instant
[06:05:00] <amee2k> karlp_: i said i don't mind them using system settings by default. what i mind is not allowing manual configuration even if the former strategy clearly failed and they evidently even check for that
[06:07:28] <karlp_> so, does exporting http_proxy env vars work?
[06:07:44] <karlp_> which is apparently how lxde works?
[06:08:29] <karlp_> or gconf-editor?
[06:08:34] * inflex doesn't see why ppl use/care-about GNOME/KDE so much
[06:09:17] <amee2k> the cli solution worked when i tried it. i ditched chromium in favour of firefox later anyway because it didn't convince me
[06:09:45] <karlp_> if the cli solution worked when you tried it, then, again, they _do_ allow manual config, so why do you keep saying they don't?
[06:10:01] <karlp_> your OS, (lubuntu) only allows configuring the http proxy ont eh command line.
[06:10:08] <karlp_> what's chromium meant to do?
[06:10:15] <amee2k> ...
[06:10:25] <amee2k> i'm not going to explain it a third time
[06:10:42] <karlp_> oh, you really do want them to provide their own gui for it.
[06:35:03] <Sh4rK> hi
[06:35:03] <tobbor> hi Sh4rK.
[06:35:13] <Sh4rK> hi robot
[06:35:20] <Sh4rK> so
[06:35:28] <Sh4rK> my question is
[06:35:37] <Sh4rK> if I set a timer to CTC mode
[06:36:02] <Sh4rK> and, for example set OCR1A to 20
[06:36:11] <Sh4rK> will it count like
[06:36:40] <Sh4rK> 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ,7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 0, 1...
[06:36:48] <Sh4rK> or 20 included?
[08:05:26] <vanquish> he's gone, but in answer to his question - 20 is included, right?
[09:04:44] <brendan0powers> Is there any difference between the EEPROM and flash on the attiny/atmega devices?
[09:05:54] <OndraSter> yes
[09:06:17] <brendan0powers> Is there an App note on it?
[09:06:45] <brendan0powers> I'm using the attiny85, and the datasheet has very little information on the EEPROM
[09:10:56] <ziph> The only thing that should be missing from the datasheet is general knowledge on the differences between EEPROM's and flash.
[09:11:13] <ziph> Are you sure you've got the full datasheet? (200+ pages?)
[09:15:23] <brendan0powers> Yes
[09:15:33] <brendan0powers> I found the part I needed, had to search for EEPROM
[09:15:41] <brendan0powers> Sorry to bug you
[09:20:44] <OndraSter> :)
[15:02:39] <raden> and it keeps trying to connect to AVR ONE i have a avr isp mkII which is not in the initial menu
[15:02:54] <bram___> raden: this works:
http://pastebin.com/i7rgq5wg
[15:04:08] <bram___> raden: the mega8 doesn't have porta, so i moved it to portd
[15:04:25] <raden> how does it differ from what i have really ?
[15:04:43] <bram___> i set cnt=2, and declare cnt as volatile
[15:05:16] <bram___> raden: it also works when cnt is not initialized
[15:05:58] <Tom_itx> still having issues?
[15:06:19] <raden> Tom_itx, u know it
[15:06:26] <raden> bram___, i dont get this
[15:06:38] <raden> bram___, what do i have to change in my code ?
[15:06:59] <bram___> raden: cnt=2 instead of cnt=0 in the ISR
[15:15:00] <raden> bram___, not working for me blinking is interrupted but continues
[15:15:06] <raden> tried another microchip as well
[15:15:10] <raden> IM baffled
[15:15:17] <OndraSter> see, that's why I like JTAG.
[15:15:25] <raden> JTAG ?
[15:15:27] <OndraSter> yes
[15:15:51] <OndraSter> you can debug it like if it was running on your PC :)
[15:15:55] <OndraSter> breakpoints 'n stuff
[15:16:11] <bram___> raden: if it is interrupted, then is has stopped
[15:16:21] <bram___> what do you have connected to PORTB 0?
[15:16:56] <bram___> some info about initialization of variables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninitialized_variable
[15:17:06] <raden> A led
[15:17:29] <bram___> raden: sorry, i mean porta0
[15:17:59] <raden> bram___, switch that pulls to ground
[15:18:15] <raden> think it could be my programmer or avr studio ?
[15:18:28] <raden> why is there such major differences when I change optimization
[15:18:43] <raden> why do i have to use a char ? why does a int lock the controller ?
[15:19:19] <bram___> raden: int works just as good for me
[15:19:26] <raden> locks my controller
[15:19:51] <raden> i cant even reporgram it till i repower it if i use int
[15:20:07] <raden> I just cant win today
[15:21:21] <bram___> raden: what is connected to portd2?
[15:21:30] <raden> nada
[15:21:47] <raden> PB0 & PB1 = leds
[15:21:48] <bram___> you have you interrupt set up for portd2
[15:21:53] <raden> PA0 switch pull low
[15:21:59] <raden> sorry
[15:22:06] <raden> and PortD2 switch to ground
[15:22:10] <raden> pulling low
[15:22:23] <raden> bram___, was thining PD0 its PD2
[15:22:33] <raden> PD2 = INT0
[15:23:16] <bram___> pressing switch portd0 (porta0 at yours) starts the blinking (at mine), pressing switch portd2 stops the blinking
[15:24:32] <raden> Porta0 wil lstart it and portd2 will interupt for a second or so and code will continue
[15:25:01] <raden> bram___, can you redo it on yours and send me hex and make file i wonder if its a compiler issue
[15:25:26] <raden> actually just the hex
[15:25:31] <raden> wow im tired
[15:25:36] <bram___> raden: can you send me a paste?
[15:25:47] <raden> sure can
[15:26:37] <raden> http://pastebin.com/B9Cu7rYQ
[15:26:45] <raden> wanna just scan it over i think everything good
[15:26:55] <bram___> raden: what is the exact mcu type?
[15:27:01] * dofidum can never work out whether I need capacitors
[15:27:54] <raden> mcu type ?
[15:28:07] <bram___> m324...
[15:28:14] <bram___> a, p or pa
[15:28:21] <raden> ATMEGA324P20PU
[15:28:30] <raden> i been using 324P
[15:29:51] <bram___> raden: do you have mail, so i can send you the hex?
[15:30:28] <raden> pm'ed
[15:30:58] <bram___> ehm, i'm new to irssi
[15:31:16] <raden> you get it ?
[15:31:25] <bram___> i see Act: 3
[15:31:37] <bram___> but i don't know how to read it
[15:31:42] <raden> what are u using ?
[15:31:48] <bram___> irssi
[15:33:13] <raden> i think u have to toggle
[15:34:05] <bram___> hmm doesn't work
[15:34:19] <raden> do /q raden
[15:36:54] <bram_> raden: you got my mail?
[15:38:12] <raden> yup
[15:38:15] <raden> loaded hex file
[15:38:30] <raden> and when i interrupt it interrupts but keeps going
[15:38:52] <raden> my leds will go off for about a second then finish off he code
[15:38:52] <bram_> raden: can you verify the state of porta0?
[15:39:11] <raden> i can throw scope on it
[15:39:28] <bram_> raden: can you set cnt=30 instead of cnt=3?
[15:39:45] <bram_> then you can see the difference between a reset and actual behaviour
[15:39:48] <raden> sure
[15:41:12] * amee2k looks at raden
[15:41:38] * raden looks back at amee2k
[15:41:54] <amee2k> last time i checked /q was an alias for quit, not query :P
[15:41:59] <raden> bram_, set cnt to 10 now the leds complete one cycle and the controller locks
[15:42:13] <raden> amee2k, its kinda retarded
[15:42:21] <amee2k> no shit :P
[15:43:04] <raden> bram_, this makes noooooo sense
[15:43:45] <bram_> raden: all i can say, it works on my mega8
[15:43:58] <bram_> raden: the next step is to disassemble your code
[15:44:07] <raden> cnt = 3 works
[15:44:30] <bram_> cnt=10 doesn't?
[15:44:43] <raden> cnt =9 locks up
[15:44:49] <raden> cnt = 10 lockss uip
[15:45:01] <amee2k> cnt=11 works again? :P
[15:45:42] <raden> lemee try
[15:45:54] <bram_> raden: you can check the assembled output in the .lss file
[15:46:17] <amee2k> just an idea, but are there avr emulators that can do step by step execution?
[15:46:20] <OndraSter> why use the while(...) cnt--;
[15:46:25] <OndraSter> isn't this what we have FOR for?
[15:46:32] <OndraSter> amee2k, there is one built in :D
[15:46:40] <raden> that locks tooo
[15:46:57] <amee2k> but if it can step through the code you could see where it is hanging, no?
[15:47:33] <bram_> raden: i have set fcpu in the config options to 2mhz....
[15:47:59] <bram_> raden: do you have the brownout fuse set?
[15:48:07] <raden> no i dont
[15:48:14] <raden> going to look at asm
[15:48:34] <bram_> raden, what happens when you set the brownout fuse?
[15:48:49] <OndraSter> bram_, you think he has got so bad power supply that the voltage drops?
[15:49:23] <bram_> OndraSter: the behavious is very "weird", so it just might be that his memory is corrupted
[15:49:29] <raden> bram_, how do i set it ?
[15:49:48] <raden> im about ready to try a different model chip
[15:49:50] <raden> this is nuts
[15:49:55] <raden> omg the asm file long
[15:50:12] <OndraSter> well if he changes the number of the cnt it gets set to, it shouldn't lock up, as it is the same still offset, just diff value....
[15:50:40] <bram_> raden: Tools->program avr->connect->fuses
[15:51:03] <OndraSter> he has AVRISP mk2?
[15:51:08] <OndraSter> or was it somebody else
[15:51:54] <bram_> can't it be done with an avrisp mk2?
[15:52:25] <raden> OndraSter, that I do
[15:52:31] <raden> im checking
[15:53:04] <raden> brown out set to 4.3 volts
[15:53:05] <bram_> set BODLEVEL to 2.7V when you are running at 3.3V
[15:53:24] <raden> running at 4.995 volts at moment
[15:53:28] <bram_> raden: and you have BODEN set?
[15:53:50] <raden> in fuses it is now
[15:53:54] <raden> so i need to set elsewhere ?
[15:54:19] <bram_> no, the fuses should be enough for brownout
[15:54:30] <bram_> now power cycle the device
[15:54:30] <raden> i dont get how thats going to help
[15:55:14] <bram_> raden: if you vcc drops (too fast) after doing something and brownout is not set, then you can get memory corruption
[15:55:24] <amee2k> mmh speaking of power, what is the power source and what kind of bypassing is present?
[15:55:26] <bram_> or unexpected behaviour
[15:56:03] <amee2k> from my exp AVRs seem to be relatively tolerant of bad supply but inappropriate bypassing can do weird things
[15:56:21] <raden> amee2k, extech 382200 lab power supply
[15:56:30] <raden> just changed to my other one as well
[15:56:36] <amee2k> as can switching supplies when they crap themselves
[15:56:45] <raden> switched power supplied
[15:56:47] <raden> s
[15:56:51] <raden> still doing same thing
[15:56:52] <amee2k> oh, lab supply should be good
[15:57:17] <amee2k> what i mean was using 10$ ATX supplies from the trash without fixing the caps
[15:57:21] <raden> i have my 50,000 count meter on the supply well it has yet to deviate from 4.995 volts
[15:57:43] <amee2k> or old wall warts that were left over from devices long gone and are repurposed
[15:58:17] <bram_> raden: what type of board are you using?
[15:58:31] <amee2k> still, what about bypassing?
[15:58:55] <raden> the pcb board or what ?
[15:58:59] <bram_> yes
[15:59:13] <raden> custom made
[15:59:30] <bram_> do you have some 100nF's at the supply pins for decoupling? like OndraSter mentioned/
[15:59:31] <amee2k> can you make a pic of the physical construction?
[15:59:47] <OndraSter> (I did not mention it lol)
[16:00:02] <OndraSter> but I put there at least two 100nFs in parallel for bigger projects
[16:00:03] <bram_> whoops, it was amee2k
[16:00:07] <OndraSter> and one electrolytic
[16:00:13] <raden> have no caps
[16:00:15] <OndraSter> 100uF
[16:00:35] <raden> would that really cause a issue like this though ?
[16:00:41] <OndraSter> it could
[16:00:42] <bram_> OndraSter: putting two 100nF's in parallel doesn't work better then one
[16:00:51] <OndraSter> bram_, I know, 200nF
[16:00:56] <amee2k> 10-100nF as close to the pins as possible, and small electrolytic somewhere else on the same board. then run wires to the supply
[16:01:05] <bram_> OndraSter, it doesn't work that way
[16:01:10] <OndraSter> how come?
[16:01:22] <amee2k> bram_: parallel caps means twice the capacitance and half the series parasitics
[16:01:23] <OndraSter> it changes the time constant
[16:01:24] <bram_> OndraSter, a 10nF can sometimes work better than a 100nF or more
[16:01:32] <OndraSter> oh you mean this
[16:01:37] <bram_> OndraSter, it depends on the speed you are running at
[16:01:38] <amee2k> not that it matters much for modern caps
[16:01:57] <OndraSter> 16MHz on final products
[16:01:59] <OndraSter> always -.-
[16:02:09] <OndraSter> or 20MHz for those devices that officialy support it
[16:02:13] <OndraSter> officially
[16:02:33] <bram_> amee2k: that's true, but the dynamic behavious of two 100nF's is very different from one 200nF
[16:03:44] <amee2k> bram_: sure, but two smaller parallel caps may yield a useful advantage depending on the application
[16:03:53] <raden> will a single cap work ?
[16:03:59] <amee2k> sure
[16:04:02] <bram_> amee2k: it will depend on the application
[16:04:09] <amee2k> just stick it as close to the pins as possible
[16:04:35] <raden> cap between - and + ?
[16:04:37] <bram_> raden: the distance should be less then 1/10th of the wavelenght
[16:04:51] <bram_> raden: between vcc and gnd
[16:10:44] <amee2k> bram_: yeah, if there is no other way i'll just add a second external oscillator with intentionally bad tolerances. i'm just hoping there is a way to get away without external circuitry because space is probably at a premium
[16:10:46] <bram_> raden: all with stk500 and sometimes a dragon, if the stk500 is occupied
[16:11:03] <raden> bram_, so i get a stk500 i can do everything on ubuntu no issues ?
[16:11:20] <bram_> raden: just the learning curve of using make
[16:11:27] <bram_> raden: and avrdude
[16:11:33] <OndraSter> bram_, some attiny clocked at higher freq than the other chip? :P
[16:12:05] <bram_> amee2k: bad tolerances doesn't mean the frequency is floating, it usually means it is different from specified and it varies with temperature
[16:13:09] <bram_> amee2k: if you want "real" spread spectrum than you can use a cdce913 for example
[16:13:10] <amee2k> bram_: and it'll be slightly different for each device
[16:13:41] <amee2k> even if two devices' switching frequencies start beating with each other, they'll drift apart quickly
[16:13:56] <bram_> amee2k: it might be, but there's no guarantee, a batch can be perfectly matched
[16:14:48] <bram_> amee2k: you can add a crystal to all of them, and vary the caps
[16:14:50] <amee2k> interresting chip but not exactly cheap
[16:15:00] <bram_> then you will have different frequency's
[16:15:26] <bram_> amee2k: another option is to synchronize
[16:15:48] <amee2k> "synchronize"?
[16:15:58] <amee2k> as in, central clock for all modules?
[16:16:03] <bram_> amee2k: yes
[16:17:06] <amee2k> hrm
[16:17:08] <bram_> amee2k: or have a "tick" line to all chips
[16:17:40] <bram_> the power rail should be unaffected if you have proper decoupling/filtering in place
[16:18:25] <bram_> you can have a L/C circuit before each chip with an RC time that is lower than the di/dt you'd like
[16:18:25] <OndraSter> so, my project will be giving 2Amp spikes (50mA -> 2A -> 50mA -> 2A etc)
[16:18:26] <raden> i have over 1000's caps here i cant find a one
[16:18:33] <amee2k> mmh, its not like it is a K.O. issue, i expect to get away with the issue for the most part.
[16:19:02] <amee2k> (read: if someone paid me to do this i'd leave it as is and bill them the engineering cost for investigating the solution anyway)
[16:19:33] <bram_> amee2k: you should read: EMC for product designers
[16:20:14] <amee2k> bram_: the problem is that the switching frequency is really low, like sub-1kHz. that makes filtering it mildly challenging if i want to keep it small and cheap
[16:20:18] <bram_> it has some good info about decoupling and filtering
[16:21:08] <bram_> amee2k: the sub-1kHz should not be a problem, but the di/dt might be
[16:21:09] <amee2k> i already have a plan for a hugely oversized LC filter but it rolls off at ~5kHz
[16:21:38] <raden> bram_, how many uF ?>
[16:21:45] <bram_> the LC filter is only needed for di/dt
[16:22:14] <amee2k> the filter i already have should limit the harmonic content, but still worried about artifacts caused if the fundamentals are closely grouped, like it would happen with crystals
[16:24:26] <bram_> amee2k: with proper LC before every chip for the di/dt (ramp up/down time for your load) and a psu that can handle the di/dt to your filter, everything should be fine
[16:24:30] <amee2k> then put small low-impedance bypass caps close to the actual devices you're powering
[16:26:07] <amee2k> bram_: PSU should be specced to handle all connected modules at 100% duty, so the power supply shouldn't be the bottleneck
[16:26:13] <raden> i have .1 ceramic
[16:26:21] <raden> i presume that ,1 uf ?
[16:26:27] <amee2k> yep
[16:26:29] <amee2k> go for it
[16:26:51] <bram_> amee2k: 100% duty is not enough, it should also be specced to handle a change in current
[16:27:40] <amee2k> i don't think i've ever seen a PSU with specs for that o.O
[16:28:01] <amee2k> caps are usually either rated in uF or in pF... you'll have to infer from the context what applies
[16:28:58] <amee2k> if a small foil cap says "250/0.01" then it likely is uF... if it says "120.000" or "124" then it is probably pF
[16:29:14] <bram_> amee2k: you should place enough (and fast enough) capacitance that will handle your change in current
[16:29:28] <amee2k> (note the three-digit exponential notation)
[16:29:39] <bram_> some regulators then to overshoot when the current drops suddenly
[16:29:57] <amee2k> hmm i see
[16:30:55] <bram_> or undershoot when the current rises
[16:31:42] <amee2k> are there any safe assumption that i can make? currently i'm planning to use an off the shelf power supply ... generic wanabe-industrial 24V 10A supply with very little specs
[16:32:08] <OndraSter> yes, do NOT put full 24V to atmega
[16:32:10] <OndraSter> :P
[16:32:26] <amee2k> o.O
[16:32:44] <OndraSter> they tend to not like that
[16:32:52] <amee2k> "ISS to housten, we just spotted a microcontroller entering earth orbit 0.0"
[16:32:59] <OndraSter> haha yeah
[16:33:07] * amee2k pets his 34063
[16:33:16] * OndraSter has here one too
[16:33:23] <raden> still same issue (
[16:33:28] <OndraSter> prepared to build someday the nixie tube PSU
[16:33:37] <amee2k> nice
[16:33:46] <OndraSter> I don't like messing with direct power plug with 230V
[16:34:05] <raden> OndraSter, why not ?
[16:34:08] <OndraSter> so I preferably get some 12V PSU and use home built SMPS to get back to the 180V
[16:34:10] <amee2k> they're still the cheapest SMP ICs that i can find. only issue i have with them is the built in darlington which is not so hot for low voltages
[16:34:15] <OndraSter> well I touched the live and earth few times
[16:34:27] <OndraSter> but it isn't something I'd liberately do
[16:34:28] <raden> LOL do that with 600 delta sometime :)(
[16:34:31] <OndraSter> plus, I HATE AC.
[16:34:33] <raden> arc flash is nice too :)
[16:34:36] <raden> lol
[16:35:16] <OndraSter> for messing with HV I have here some flyback from TV
[16:35:17] <amee2k> is this for a retro project?
[16:35:23] <bram_> amee2k: when using a switching regulator at say 500kHz, then you know it will take at least 2 cycles for the regulator to adjust its output
[16:35:25] <OndraSter> (I know, it is not flyback, they just call it flyback by mistake)
[16:35:35] <OndraSter> amee2k, well nixie tubes are retro, aren't they
[16:35:39] <OndraSter> I have a lot of them
[16:35:45] <raden> bram_, installing AVR studio 5 quick
[16:35:52] <amee2k> do it old-school and rewind a transformer core to your specs
[16:35:59] <OndraSter> heh
[16:36:04] <OndraSter> 5 or 6 smaller ones and 8 giant ones
[16:36:15] <bram_> amee2k: but usually it is much worse, see the ltc1700 datasheet for example, it has a graph for load step transient response
[16:36:15] <raden> bram_, you going to be here in about 20 min ?
[16:36:17] <OndraSter> by giant I mean like 7cm
[16:36:27] <bram_> raden: i'm off to bed soon
[16:36:33] <raden> k...
[16:36:36] <bram_> raden: Dont install studio 5!
[16:36:39] <OndraSter> lol
[16:36:43] <bram_> it sucks donkeyballs
[16:36:44] <amee2k> i see
[16:36:48] <raden> i just dont get how the code will work for you but not meeeee
[16:36:55] <OndraSter> brb
[16:36:57] <raden> bram_, there is a lot of issues with my avr 4 install
[16:37:07] <raden> things break all the time
[16:37:14] <bram_> raden: try it on a stk500 with an atmega8
[16:37:26] <raden> Id have to order a stk500 which im about to do
[16:37:30] <bram_> raden: avrstudio 5 will make you life hell
[16:37:39] <raden> Nice :D
[16:38:44] <bram_> goodnight all
[16:39:19] <amee2k> bram_: on paper, my input line filter has -20dB (power) rejection at 10kHz, does that sound like i'm headed in the right direction with this?
[16:40:54] <amee2k> just trying to find the ballpark here... when it comes to filters i'm all theory and no exp points :/
[16:44:23] <raden> ummmmmmmm
[16:44:48] <raden> i just opened my timer.c file in notepad and it has extra crap everywhere in it .... when i open it in AVRstudio looks normal
[16:45:00] <OndraLappy> different encoding?
[16:45:18] <amee2k> welcome to the world of integrated development environments
[16:45:23] <amee2k> thats industry quality for ya
[16:45:39] <OndraLappy> I am glad I am rewriting my project to ass-embler!
[16:45:47] <OndraLappy> no problems with C :P
[16:45:56] <raden> and now avr studio just said there is a critical update for avr ISP MKII
[16:46:09] <raden> C always this problematic ?
[16:46:10] <Tom_itx> ask em if it can wait
[16:46:22] <Tom_itx> never
[16:46:25] <OndraLappy> I won't actually need using heap or saving any variables in memory
[16:46:30] <jacekowski> raden: on AVR if you want something to work fast
[16:46:34] <OndraLappy> 31 registers will be enough :)
[16:46:37] <amee2k> raden: not really
[16:46:42] <OndraLappy> 32*
[16:46:57] <raden> amee2k, odd installed studio 5 and yea ...
[16:47:08] <raden> my programmer not glitching anymore
[16:47:21] <amee2k> proprietary compilers and toolchains is another story though
[16:47:29] <OndraLappy> IAR?
[16:47:51] <Tom_itx> raden did you update the firmware on your programmer with studio 5?
[16:48:00] <raden> Tom_itx, just did it
[16:48:08] <Tom_itx> if you did you need to downgrade it to studio 4 to use it anywhere else
[16:52:44] <OndraLappy> so, did anyone try porting JTAG ICE2 firmware onto JTAG ICE clone :)
[16:53:36] <Tom_itx> somebody is working on jtag ice1
[16:53:41] <OndraLappy> I am
[16:53:43] <OndraLappy> it was $14
[16:53:44] <OndraLappy> lol
[16:54:17] <Tom_itx> somebody else is too
[16:54:39] <OndraLappy> Corwen mentioned it
[16:54:43] <Tom_itx> unless you changed your nick recently
[16:56:36] <OndraLappy> nope
[16:56:37] <raden> switched AVR enviroments everything works
[16:56:39] <OndraLappy> I am OndraSter for many years
[16:56:51] <raden> amee2k, can u please explain that to me ?
[16:57:08] <amee2k> mmh, explain what?
[16:57:15] <Tom_itx> that
[16:57:21] <Tom_itx> just explain it
[16:57:22] <raden> I went from AVR4 to AVR5 and now all my code works
[16:57:32] <amee2k> nope
[16:57:33] <raden> makes no sense
[16:57:43] <OndraLappy> 'tis evolution :D
[16:57:43] <amee2k> i'm not using avr studio
[16:57:46] <OndraLappy> I like AVR Studio 5
[16:57:52] <Tom_itx> i don't
[16:57:54] <raden> i tried loading just a hex file that bram_ did up and nothing worked
[16:57:59] <OndraLappy> except... it doesn't like JTAG ICE :(
[16:57:59] <raden> i like linux
[16:58:11] <Tom_itx> all i use it for is testing my programmers for compatibility
[17:03:51] <OndraLappy> I like AVR Studio 5 mostly because I love VS2010 :)
[17:04:11] <Tom_itx> way too bloated
[17:08:15] <OndraLappy> my PC doesn't care about bloated :)
[17:08:26] <amee2k> neither does mine
[17:08:37] <amee2k> thats why it pulls 250W from the wall idling :P
[17:08:48] <OndraLappy> :D
[17:08:52] <OndraLappy> 250w is a lot for idle
[17:09:03] <OndraLappy> SandyBridge and nVidia 560Ti don't eat really much
[17:09:09] <Tom_itx> this pulls 2.5A @12v
[17:09:15] <Tom_itx> err 1.5 idle
[17:09:17] <amee2k> 6 years old gaming box
[17:09:59] <amee2k> late A64 X2, err, brisbane or something. runs fucking hot
[17:10:16] <OndraLappy> AMD :P
[17:10:48] <amee2k> the box has borderline heat issues too which is why i'm seriously considering a new one sometime next spring or so
[17:11:07] <amee2k> by now i could get the same processing power for under 100W easily
[17:11:27] <OndraLappy> :)
[17:11:48] <OndraLappy> I enjoy my 4.5GHz quadcore, I can run few VMs just fine
[17:11:52] <OndraLappy> plus 16GB RAM
[17:12:47] <amee2k> i haven't been gaming much at all lately so my performance requirements have dropped like a rock compared to 3-4 years ago or so
[17:12:56] <OndraLappy> :)
[17:13:04] <OndraLappy> some SandyBridge powered Pentium would suit you
[17:13:08] <amee2k> only thing that is getting a kinda cramped up is "only" 2 gigs of ram
[17:13:25] <OndraLappy> integrated GPU, only plugin RAM and HDD :P
[17:13:34] <amee2k> lol
[17:14:06] <amee2k> i want a decent desktop video card for watching hd videos. otherwise i'm eyeing some medium power i5s
[17:14:23] <raden> i5 is sweet
[17:14:30] <raden> that what my win box is :D
[17:14:36] <raden> honestly as good as my I7
[17:14:41] <OndraLappy> Sandy Bridge ftw
[17:14:51] <raden> and my i3 laptop chugs along very nicely
[17:15:00] <OndraLappy> AMD is seriously ... effed up
[17:15:05] <raden> for the price id probably get a i3 sandy instead of a i5 again
[17:15:07] <amee2k> i don't really see much advantage of i7 over i5 for my purposes. from what i read it only is hyperthreading and more cache
[17:15:29] <OndraLappy> yap
[17:15:32] <OndraLappy> that's it
[17:15:35] <raden> a i5 will keep up with a i7 no prob there like < 10% real world difference
[17:15:39] <amee2k> mobile i7 looks hot, but expensive
[17:15:49] <raden> amee2k, get a I3 and run a on a SSD thatll blow most i7's away
[17:16:18] <raden> my favorite machine is a I3 w/ crucial SSD
[17:16:19] <amee2k> raden: if it continues this way SSDs will be cheaper than real drives in a fucking year or so
[17:16:25] <raden> boots opensuse in under 10 seconds
[17:16:47] <amee2k> i have my box for using it, not for watching it boot
[17:16:54] <raden> amee2k, i just paid $800 for 4 hitachi 2 tb drives same driver were 450 a few months ago
[17:17:01] <raden> 64 GB SSD = $89
[17:17:09] <amee2k> if i wanted to watch it reboot all the time i'd be using windows
[17:17:22] <OndraLappy> it is not worth it buying drives right now
[17:17:23] <OndraLappy> HDD
[17:17:30] <raden> amee2k, LOL i know im just saying suse is very load intensive even on raid 10 it takes almost 30 seoconds
[17:17:32] <amee2k> so boot time is like zero consideration
[17:17:37] <raden> compile times are about 1/2
[17:17:42] <amee2k> if any, it has negative priority
[17:18:03] <raden> for some reason web browsing is fastester which makes no sense to me
[17:18:12] <OndraLappy> cache
[17:18:15] <raden> like even off a internal webserver
[17:18:18] <OndraLappy> being read/written
[17:18:36] <amee2k> i'd much rather have practically useful standby and hibernation back again
[17:18:39] <amee2k> than fap to boot times
[17:18:58] <OndraLappy> hibernation with 16GB RAM = not worth it lol
[17:19:00] <raden> loaded a site up with multiple 2 , 3 mb pages and wow difference i thought it was just me but its the drives
[17:19:02] <OndraLappy> I use only standby
[17:19:34] <amee2k> imo it is because i can just leave everything open and get it back the way i left it the next morning
[17:19:44] <OndraLappy> so you can with stby
[17:20:02] <OndraLappy> and it doesn't take any time to reload the content of the RAM from HDD
[17:20:04] <amee2k> raden: the other day i caught firefox with a solid 6 gigs of ram for maybe two dozen tabs or so. does it make more sense now?
[17:20:13] <OndraLappy> haha
[17:20:22] <OndraLappy> I have SSD in my tablet-PC
[17:20:27] <OndraLappy> 64GB RunCore
[17:20:45] <amee2k> OndraLappy: i like the hybrid standby/hibernate approach... save to disk but then stay in standby. only needs to reload from disk if power goes out
[17:20:53] <OndraLappy> oh
[17:21:00] <OndraLappy> my system partition is 80GB
[17:21:06] <OndraLappy> nothing I would want to dump 16GB RAM to :)
[17:21:40] <amee2k> system partition on my laptop is 20 and that is plenty for most systems
[17:21:48] <amee2k> of course, assuming /home is on a different fs
[17:21:55] <OndraLappy> oh linux
[17:21:56] <OndraLappy> -.-
[17:22:39] <amee2k> last time i used windows (8 years ago?) it could move My Documents to a different drive too
[17:22:59] <amee2k> not sure about the entire Documents and Settings directory though
[17:23:14] <OndraLappy> well I use desktop as a temporary folder :P
[17:23:18] <OndraLappy> I dump everything there
[17:23:33] <norbi1> hmm trying to figure out vhdl, not so simple
[17:23:34] <OndraLappy> I usually keep running out of space
[17:23:54] <norbi1> i find large books, but no small explanation, just an image about the things
[17:23:56] <amee2k> thh desktop isn't a subfolder of my documents on windows?
[17:24:12] <OndraLappy> desktop is subfolder of your user profile
[17:24:19] <OndraLappy> and they are on C:\Users\
[17:24:21] <OndraLappy> in*
[17:24:28] <amee2k> iirc they have a bunch of default folders... music pictures videos whatever, i thought desktop was there too
[17:24:35] <OndraLappy> yes
[17:24:42] <OndraLappy> music is actually re-made into libraries in W7
[17:24:47] <OndraLappy> just as video
[17:24:55] <OndraLappy> the thing is
[17:25:09] <OndraLappy> it is easier for me to once a year move all the stuff from desktop to D:\DESKTOP_OLD
[17:25:14] <OndraLappy> than mess with registry :P
[17:25:21] <amee2k> hehe
[17:25:41] <amee2k> i have a bad habit of forgetting about old backups
[17:25:53] <OndraLappy> I remember about them when I need them
[17:26:02] <amee2k> two weeks ago i went cleaning up and freed like 400GB only from removing stale backups 0.0
[17:26:09] <OndraLappy> heh
[17:26:14] <OndraLappy> the important stuff is on the cloud
[17:26:26] <OndraLappy> partially skydrive, partially dropbox
[17:26:28] <amee2k> o.O
[17:26:42] <amee2k> my important stuff is on my computer
[17:27:38] <OndraLappy> I am cloud boy
[17:27:44] <OndraLappy> plus my phone is syncing with skydrive
[17:27:49] <amee2k> 3 drive mirror raid
[17:27:51] <OndraLappy> so I have all the stuff from school from onenote there
[17:28:07] <amee2k> whats still really starting to suck is drive prices though... had a drive on one of my servers drop two weeks ago and now i'm out of cold spares
[17:28:09] <OndraLappy> I just pick up my phone, let it finish syncing and woot, I can read all my notes
[17:28:22] <amee2k> my phone.... makes calls. thats about it
[17:28:25] <OndraLappy> :D
[17:28:30] <OndraLappy> I am WP7 user.
[17:28:32] <OndraLappy> lover even
[17:28:36] <OndraLappy> anyway, 'tis late, gn
[17:28:39] <amee2k> wordpress 7?
[17:28:41] <OndraLappy> no
[17:28:43] <OndraLappy> Windows Phone 7
[17:28:46] <amee2k> oh
[17:28:56] <OndraLappy> the phone with the bestest UI and UX :P
[17:29:09] <OndraLappy> gn lads
[17:29:24] <amee2k> i've set up sparkleshare to sync laptop and desktop with my VPS... unlimited dropbox \o/
[17:29:37] <amee2k> meh, too late
[17:32:00] <amee2k> mmh, waitasec
[17:32:10] <amee2k> raden: didn't you just go to bed? o.O
[17:33:00] <raden> lol
[17:33:06] <raden> that was bram_
[17:33:15] <raden> i went to bed at 4am and up at 9
[17:33:22] <amee2k> ooh, right
[17:33:36] <amee2k> doing too many things at once lol
[17:38:01] <norbi1> do you have any sugestions for learning vhdl? i have 2 books, but none of them are presenting the basiscs well
[17:38:11] <norbi1> both jumps into the middle
[18:14:40] <Sgt_Lemming> morning all
[19:04:59] <Tom_itx> norbi
http://tutor.awce.com/pldx-1.htm
[19:05:15] <Tom_itx> http://tutor.awce.com/wpv-1.htm
[19:40:42] <Sgt_Lemming> anyone know the advanatages/disadvantages of using the internal oscillator vs an external crystal?
[19:41:21] <Sgt_Lemming> on an ATmega1281 I mean
[19:45:20] <Casper> Sgt_Lemming: cheaper, smaller board space for internal
[19:45:26] <Casper> external crystal: precision
[19:45:50] <timemage> Sgt_Lemming, the internal oscillator on the avrs that i've used (i suspect all) are RC oscillators. they're nice to have, but the operate at lower frequencies, less accurate, drift more with temperature changes.
[19:46:16] <Sgt_Lemming> timemage, not too fussed about that as I don't need amazingly precise long term timing
[19:46:35] <Sgt_Lemming> in fact most of the stuff this board would be used for is very short term stuff
[19:46:38] <timemage> Sgt_Lemming, then it's nice just not to have to deal with the crystal.
[19:46:39] <Sgt_Lemming> like 5 minutes at most
[19:46:43] * Sgt_Lemming nods
[19:46:46] <Casper> internal RC can be +/-10% off, isn't stable, vary from part to part, vary with supply voltage (and indirectly with load, due to the noise on the supply), vary with temperature.
[19:46:47] <Sgt_Lemming> tis what I was thinking
[19:47:22] <Sgt_Lemming> yeah, kinda tossing it up though as I would like to have an RTC on the board as well, and it will need a crystal
[19:47:35] <Tom_itx> you could go with an external osc too
[19:47:59] <Casper> hmmm I hope I'll be able to hack that smart battery chip...
[19:48:03] <Casper> .... the cells are good
[19:48:17] <Tom_itx> Sgt_Lemming, the one i use on my programmer is pretty small
[19:48:23] <Sgt_Lemming> lo Tom_itx btw, long time no see
[19:48:24] <Casper> but they went bellow the 3V safety voltage, so the IC went into protection and deny charge
[19:49:02] <Sgt_Lemming> http://oi42.tinypic.com/mr7a7l.jpg <--- the board I am working on atm
[19:49:10] <Casper> the cells are rated 4400mA, I'm at about 2A charge current, and it's been 1 hour and still in bulk charge
[19:49:16] <Sgt_Lemming> IC3 will be an FTDI serial to usb chip
[19:49:41] <Sgt_Lemming> if the cells went below 3v casper they are going to be damaged
[19:50:03] <Sgt_Lemming> most LiPo batteries reccomend not going below 3.2v
[19:50:55] <Casper> Sgt_Lemming: I'm at 4.04V now, still taking charge
[19:52:16] <Casper> now... if it work, and if the charger still hasn'T kicked back... I'll try an alternative way... I'll bypass the switch and still pass throught the shunt
[19:52:27] <Casper> I wanted to see the batt capacity...
[19:52:33] <Casper> 2A in for now...
[19:52:54] <Tom_itx> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/CSTCE16M0V53-R0/490-1198-1-ND/584635
[19:52:59] <Tom_itx> 16Mhz resonator
[19:54:34] <Tom_itx> very little realestate too
[19:57:41] <Tom_itx> Sgt_Lemming what are the drive transistors?
[20:02:32] <Sgt_Lemming> haven't specced them out yet, but just basci BJT's
[20:04:40] <Casper> man that protection IC is a PITA...
[20:04:57] <Casper> current capacity: 2026mAh
[20:05:12] <Casper> capacity remaining: 0mAh
[23:18:56] <raden> Casper, figured out my issue
[23:31:40] <Casper> oh?
