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[00:19:53] <Valen> !@#$#!@$@#$@# !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[00:20:01] <Valen> storm took out my modem
[00:20:07] <Valen> $350 fritzbox
[00:20:28] <ziph> Serves you right for living in the tropics. :)
[00:20:51] <Valen> 3rd friggin modem too
[00:20:56] <Valen> through the surge protector
[00:21:03] <Valen> $80 surge protector
[00:21:21] <Casper> Valen: try to claim it under surge protector waranty?
[00:21:29] <Valen> hopefully
[00:21:37] <Valen> going to try modem warranty first
[00:23:35] <Valen> oh and it was my dect base station too
[00:27:03] <Casper> dect?
[00:27:32] <Valen> wireless phone?
[00:28:06] <Casper> ok
[00:28:20] <Casper> dect6 or alike
[00:28:33] <Casper> but I'm seriously wondering if surge protector is any good at all
[00:28:44] <Casper> like those 120V surge bar...
[00:28:47] <Casper> clamp at 330V
[00:29:00] <Casper> AND have a fuse on the surge!
[00:29:13] <Casper> so a good surge just blow the fuse and let the surge pass fully
[00:29:37] <ziph> The fuse is on the bar, not in series with the input?
[00:29:50] <Casper> there is a breaker in series with the input
[00:29:59] <Casper> but a fuse in series with the surge protection circuit
[00:30:11] <ziph> I like that.
[00:30:29] <ziph> It means the protected device will catch fire, but not the surge protector. ;)
[00:30:39] <Casper> exactly
[00:31:22] <ziph> It's probably some requirement.
[00:31:33] <Casper> thing is... the surge circuit will be a short when it fail due to... a short
[00:32:03] <Casper> but the short could be partial, causing an increased current until it self destruct
[00:32:50] <Valen> this is lightning damage
[00:33:03] <Valen> through a phone line
[00:33:41] <Casper> hmmm
[00:33:51] <Casper> so the first level surge protection didn't worked
[00:34:00] <Casper> which is at the dmark point
[00:34:16] <Casper> might want to have the phone compagny service it
[00:34:19] <Valen> we dont have those
[00:34:30] <Valen> 1 wire to the exchange
[00:34:44] <Valen> well 1 pair
[00:34:53] <ziph> The surge protectors don't work properly when you have to have anti-koala systems on the phone lines.
[00:35:10] <Casper> yes, but at the house it should have a box with a ground wire
[00:35:23] <Valen> Casper: ever think other countries might be different?
[00:35:24] <Casper> that box should have a build in lightning and surge arrestor
[00:36:00] <Casper> Valen: yes could be different, but should have them for safety reason...
[00:36:13] <Casper> so you mean your phone compagny don't install those?
[00:36:16] <Valen> no
[00:36:49] <Casper> yikes... don't take a wired phone during a storm :D
[00:37:32] <Valen> if lightning hits close enough to do anything to you a surge protector wont do anything anyway
[00:38:26] <Casper> yeah
[00:38:51] <Casper> apc surge protector claim to protect even in the case of a direct hit on the electrical mast
[00:38:59] <Casper> but I kinda doubt their claim
[00:39:22] <Landon> well, at least they have a warranty even in that case, right? ;)
[00:40:34] <Casper> yes, but I hear they require that you have your house wiring inspected before being able to fill a claim
[00:40:35] <Valen> my missus had a lightning bolt hit near their farm, it came out the phone and arced to the sink 3 meters away
[00:40:49] <Landon> heh
[00:40:54] <Landon> a friend posted pictures of his son's truck
[00:41:03] <Valen> a mov isn't going to stop that
[00:41:03] <Landon> direct hit by lightning
[00:41:27] <Landon> a hole in the top of the cab and a big black spot on the rims
[00:42:21] <Valen> surge protectors are sposed to stop delicate electrical bits getting broken by stuff like this, not protect your life
[01:22:51] * inflex sends off another bundle of $$$$ to China
[01:50:45] <doublebeta-sleep> Valen: wtf?! 3 meter arm from the phone? WOAH.
[01:50:54] <doublebeta-sleep> Would sure have been a sight tho
[02:23:41] <ziph> "A particularly deadly lightning incident occurred in Brescia, Italy in 1769. Lightning struck the Church of St. Nazaire, igniting the 100 tons of gunpowder in its vaults; the resulting explosion killed 3000 people and destroyed a sixth of the city.[117]"
[02:33:21] <Casper> LOL
[02:47:22] <inflex> impressive
[02:47:45] <inflex> God's wrath no doubt.
[02:51:28] <scuzzy> he doesn't like gunpowder?
[02:52:43] <Valen> confirmation bias
[02:52:52] <Valen> god either didn't do it
[02:53:00] <Valen> or they were all wicked people
[02:53:04] <Valen> etc etc
[03:27:00] <inflex> y'all bee wicked sinners - to the powder rooms for ye all.
[03:27:54] <doublebeta-sleep> WTF
[03:28:07] <doublebeta-sleep> Well, that's what you get for keeping gunpowder in a church I spose
[03:28:29] <inflex> maybe God was trying to strike down something evil, but "missed" slightly.
[03:28:41] <doublebeta-sleep> 'woops shit'
[03:28:44] <inflex> Sort of a "Whooops... *whistle*"
[03:28:45] <doublebeta-sleep> or like Space Invaders
[03:28:52] <doublebeta-sleep> 'hurr durr, shoot thru my own shield'
[03:28:58] <inflex> hahha yeah
[03:29:06] <inflex> "He's a maaaad man!"
[03:29:13] <ziph> inflex: I would think with the ensuing explosion his target might've not been entirely missed after all.
[03:30:14] <Tom_itx> the preacher was on fire that night
[03:30:25] <inflex> oooh badum-tish!
[03:30:40] <inflex> I think the clergy was blown away by it.
[03:30:46] <inflex> ... and the parish.
[03:31:17] <ziph> The sermon must've electrified the crowd.
[03:31:28] <inflex> Or maybe there were devil-worshippers half a block away, and God could only reach them through his own people... so, he decided to sacrafice a few for the "greater good"
[03:31:37] <inflex> ziph: oh that's just shocking.
[03:31:54] <doublebeta-sleep> inflex: yeah that sounds pretty Godlike
[03:32:02] <ziph> Kind of like God giving America the bomb because he didn't like Sushi? :)
[03:32:26] <inflex> yeah, that's pretty bad
[03:32:51] <inflex> personally, I'm more of a deist ... so, as far as I can tell, God is busy making something else.
[03:33:16] <inflex> Zion version-8.1
[03:33:28] <inflex> "With even less white people"
[03:33:43] <ziph> inflex: I believe that God exists, and that he really hates people.
[03:34:26] <inflex> ziph: hahah, maybe like us with ants in the kitchen... now and then you save one or two from drowning, miraculous acts... but overall you just wipe them out en masse
[03:34:31] <ziph> It's why we have companies like Microchip and reality TV.
[03:35:26] <inflex> ... esp things like Jersey Shore
[03:35:46] <ziph> And why would you send bad people to hell for punishment? Wouldn't the devil get along with them?
[03:36:17] <inflex> nah well, I think that the "devil" is really just a nice person - he's just got a job to do.
[03:36:38] <ziph> Doing nasty things to people isn't nice. :)
[03:36:38] <inflex> Not that I think he cares much for the human race either.
[03:36:51] <inflex> Ooh, I think people in "hell" are there by their own torment.
[03:37:17] <ziph> Most bad people don't think they're bad. :)
[03:37:35] <inflex> I was going to follow up with a "after receiving a bit of a brain-rework to make them see the reality of what they did"
[03:37:58] <inflex> that way, there's no need for the whole fire/brimstone/whipping etc... instead you just let them slice away at their own minds.
[03:42:35] <ziph> Hmm, lightning.
[03:42:53] <ziph> Did someone say something about that being bad for computers before?
[03:43:48] <ziph> inflex: It's still winter here by the way.
[03:44:55] <inflex> ziph: long since gone here
[03:45:06] <inflex> ziph: soon as September arrived, *poof* it was Summer
[03:50:35] <Valen> aparently its normal for my modem to be too hot to touch
[03:53:46] <Valen> i think the proof that the Christians have it wrong is here
http://failblog.org/2011/11/07/epic-fail-photos-classic-fireworks-will-kill-you-too
[03:54:38] <Valen> how can lesbians be evil?
[03:54:44] <Valen> especially katy perry
[03:56:33] <scuzzy> especially, since I kissed a girl, and liked it, and now I'm married to her... which I hear, even by christian standards, is pretty much ok...
[03:56:48] <Valen> your just dull
[03:57:03] <Valen> but i think the christians say your sposed to marry her before kissing her
[03:57:25] <Valen> actually they say quite a lot of stuff is ok except male male sex
[03:57:56] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw is hilarious btw
[03:58:25] <scuzzy> no, I believe they say no sex... before you marry her
[04:00:52] <ziph> There are some churches that don't allow kissing before marriage.
[04:01:03] <ziph> The Potters House (here in Australia at least) don't.
[04:01:42] <scuzzy> really?
[04:01:50] <scuzzy> wowser, that's a bit anal
[04:02:00] <Valen> anal? thats right out!
[04:02:02] <ziph> And that image has to be about the asinine use of the silly "Fail" meme I've seen yet.
[04:02:15] <Valen> sometimes its funny
[04:02:16] <scuzzy> *most?
[04:02:22] <scuzzy> Valen: anal?
[04:02:33] <Valen> google it when your alone scuzzy ;-P
[04:03:20] <ziph> Valen: scuzzy is 12.
[04:03:35] <scuzzy> no, I was asking if it was funny
[04:04:25] <scuzzy> and I'm 13!
[04:05:03] <ziph> Really?
[04:05:10] <Valen> probably best not to google it then
[04:05:58] <scuzzy> ziph: Uhhh, sure...
[04:06:19] <ziph> Nah, it's probably best that a young boy knows about it in order to avoid it, particularly if they're involved in a church. ;)
[04:08:59] <scuzzy> boy?
[04:09:00] <Valen> ziph: it took me 3 readings to get that
[04:09:03] <Valen> lolz
[04:09:21] <ziph> scuzzy: You're a turtle?
[04:11:11] <scuzzy> no, I am a boy... I just didn't expect you to ask if I was a turtle...
[04:15:24] <Valen> well we all know there are no girls on the internet
[04:15:59] <scuzzy> when I google for girls, I find LOADS of girls on the internet
[04:16:25] <Valen> ahh, see thats photos of girls, thats different
[04:18:16] <karlp> valen: while you're right, you _can_ put serial numbers in the software, becaus eyou have to flash each device, it can be much easier to have a serialnumber on board, so you can just use the same firmware for every device.
[04:22:08] <ziph> You can have the serial number programmed in an area that the firmware doesn't include.
[04:30:51] <Valen> if your getting to that number of parts you either make your progamming tool able to handle it (ie you don't run make each time, your programming script just takes care of it all) or you get atmel to do it for you when you order your parts ;->
[04:32:45] <karlp> or, instead of paying atmel to do it, you use parts that already include this.
[04:33:07] <Valen> mac addresses?
[04:33:26] <Valen> are they baked in to avrs that have the ethernet stuff?
[04:34:13] <karlp> I'm not saying it's the only way to do it, just saying that sometimes putting a eui48 part on the board, or using a micro that has one built in, is one viable option for handling serial numbering.
[04:35:17] <Valen> both would likely be more expensive than a shell script to mod the hex file of an eeprom
[04:35:29] <karlp> possibly indeed.
[04:35:43] <karlp> depends which complexity you want to manage
[04:35:57] <karlp> a software inventory of serial numbers, and making sure everyone always runs the right commands,
[04:36:16] <karlp> again, depends where you want to spend the money :)
[05:07:23] <inflex> yugh
[05:47:39] <spow> Hi. How do I calculate the overall delay yhen there are nested DEC/BRNE statements ?
[05:49:38] <spow> I understand how a single DEC/BRNE statement can delay up to 255 clock ticks, but I don't understand how the consecutive statements fare ( It has to be a power of something based on observation)
[06:36:52] <ziph> spow: Huh?
[06:37:07] <ziph> Oh, nested.
[06:37:23] <spow> ziph: nvm, I found an approximate solution
[06:37:28] <ziph> Aren't you missing the clocks required to do the jump? :)
[06:38:13] <spow> nah I had to do more or less a second, so I didn't even count more than one clock cycle per instruction :)
[07:26:15] <sh00p> Hey guys, I'm using an ATmega32 to generate a square wave from TIMER0, the square wave is uniform so that the high part is just as long as the low part etc... I'm doing this using CTC mode
[07:26:28] <sh00p> mcu is running at 4 MHz
[07:26:34] <sh00p> and prescaler at 1024
[07:27:05] <sh00p> using the formula in datasheet this becomes: f_ocn = 4e6/(2*1024*(1+OCR)), where i put OCR at 0xFF (255)
[07:27:31] <sh00p> so f_ocn = 7.6 Hz
[07:27:44] <sh00p> but this is simply not true when looking at it from oscilloskope
[07:27:49] <sh00p> its quite exactly 1 kHz
[07:27:59] <sh00p> anybody has an idea?
[07:33:26] <karlp> you're not actually running at 4mhz?
[07:36:12] <sh00p> hmm
[07:36:22] <sh00p> how can i check?
[08:15:00] <theBear> if yer using a clockgen, OR a crystal and have a super-unobtrusive-scope-probe you can measure at the xtal pins
[08:15:16] <jacekowski> set it to x10
[08:15:33] <jacekowski> and you can maybe get some stuff out
[08:15:49] <jacekowski> but it will most likely slow it down
[08:16:02] <jacekowski> but you can get 100k resistor in series with probe
[08:17:08] <jacekowski> but anyways if he gets 1k instead of 7.6MHz
[08:17:34] <jacekowski> then problem is in his code
[10:39:45] <grummund> sh00p: a good start would be to confirm the system clock is what you think
[10:40:44] <grummund> sh00p: a while(1) loop toggling a pin and using _delay_ms(1000); would do that
[10:40:46] <_Shurik_> Hola fellow AVReres
[10:40:59] <grummund> with interrupts disabled of course
[10:42:41] <sh00p> I got it to work
[10:42:49] <sh00p> seems there was a slight bug only
[10:45:50] <grummund> great :)
[12:40:17] <Guest26640> Hey, I just got a atmega644, I set the fuse to 8mhz by using avrdude -p $atmgea644 -c usbasp -U lfuse:w:0xe4:m and this worked, but after this I can't program or set fuse anymore
[12:40:28] <Guest26640> whois Guest26640
[12:42:59] <Steffanx> It's probably time to find you an low freq. crystal Guest26640
[12:43:21] <Guest26640> Steffanx, did I mess it up?
[12:43:27] <Steffanx> Yep
[12:43:47] <Guest26640> What was wrong?
[12:44:40] <Steffanx> You didn't set it to 8MHz, but to a external low freq. crystal
[12:44:43] <Steffanx> *an
[12:45:41] <Guest26640> damn ;/ what would be the correct command?
[12:47:06] <Steffanx> E2 probably, you only have to disable the div8
[12:47:46] <Steffanx> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2593.pdf Chapter 7.5 that's what you need :)
[12:48:53] <Guest26640> ty
[12:48:58] <Steffanx> Don't forget to slow down your programmer
[12:55:02] <Guest26640> is there no other way via jtag?
[12:56:36] <Steffanx> That's possible too IIRC, but i'm not sure
[12:56:42] <Steffanx> I don't fuck up my fuses that much :P
[12:56:45] <Guest26640> :D
[12:57:51] <Steffanx> Time for /nick MyNick Guest26640 ?
[12:58:23] <Guest26640> a oscilloscope would do it too i guess, but i dont get it how i set the frquenz of the isp with -B ?
[13:34:19] <Guest15368> Steffanx, I know what I did, i looked up the fuses for a atmega32 but decided then to buy a atmega644 and they are still in the make file -.-
[13:34:39] <Steffanx> oops
[13:35:32] <Guest15368> but i can reset it with a jtag kabel i think, we have some at the university, thank you for your help!
[13:35:40] <Steffanx> np
[15:03:47] <Stipl> hello all
[15:04:08] <Stipl> I'm trying to dump data off an eeprom that ive extracted from a damaged board
[15:04:16] <Stipl> anyone have an idea as to how id go about this?
[15:05:41] <RikusW> SPI eeprom ? or parallel ?
[15:05:47] <Travler1> twi?
[15:05:57] <RikusW> or i2c ?
[15:06:03] <Stipl> i2c eeprom
[15:06:25] <RikusW> you'll need to get its datasheet for the commands
[15:07:06] <Stipl> http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/21203m.pdf&rct=j&sa=U&ei=gUa4Tt64N8mK2QW6mIX3Cw&ved=0CBgQFjAA&q=microchip+4l256&usg=AFQjCNH6Ec8_IVBu1zwzlU-cLozKGY-d-g
[15:07:09] <Stipl> oops
[15:07:15] <Stipl> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/21203m.pdf
[15:08:23] <RikusW> do you have an avr with hw i2c/twi ?
[15:08:30] <Stipl> no
[15:08:33] <RikusW> if not you'll have to bitbang it
[15:08:41] <Stipl> how so
[15:09:15] <RikusW> do you have something like ATmega168 ?
[15:11:09] <Stipl> no
[15:11:14] <Stipl> i have a pic programmer
[15:11:31] <RikusW> what kind ?
[15:11:41] <RikusW> bitbang on serial parallel port ?
[15:12:46] <Stipl> =/
[15:12:49] <Stipl> 1 sec
[15:12:51] <RikusW> if so you could write some software to bitbang i2c
[15:13:26] <Stipl> im not to sure what that means
[15:13:29] <Stipl> sounds like geek porn
[15:14:30] <RikusW> implementing the logic waveforms in software..
[15:15:18] <Stipl> yea...
[15:16:21] <Stipl> can you just recommend the simplest/cheapest way to do this
[15:16:23] <Stipl> for a novice
[15:16:28] <Stipl> I can solder things together
[15:16:32] <Stipl> no problem there
[15:16:52] <Stipl> just i cant program the microwave clock
[15:17:25] <Stipl> save me
[15:17:44] <Stipl> I'll cheer everytime you type in here
[15:17:49] <RikusW> hmm
[15:17:51] <Stipl> I'll be your sidekick
[15:17:59] <Stipl> everytime you say something Ill agree
[15:18:00] <RikusW> you'll have to read some docs on i2c
[15:18:04] <Stipl> Ill say: He's right you know
[15:18:20] <Stipl> or: RikusW is the man!
[15:18:41] <Stipl> why
[15:18:48] <Stipl> why is there no simple eeprom programmer
[15:18:54] <Stipl> and simple code that just dumps the damn data
[15:19:07] <Stipl> some simple precompiled program
[15:19:08] <RikusW> there might be
[15:19:14] <RikusW> you're using linux ?
[15:19:20] <Stipl> yea right
[15:19:27] <Stipl> WINDOWS XP
[15:19:44] <Stipl> eXtra Professional
[15:20:14] <Stipl> RikusW DOES IT AGAIN!
[15:20:21] <RikusW> try googling for i2c eeprom bitbang software
[15:20:27] <Stipl> just giving you a taste ;)
[15:20:40] <RikusW> you still have a parallel port on your pc /
[15:20:41] <RikusW> ?
[15:20:46] <Stipl> i gotta do everything?
[15:20:51] <Stipl> no
[15:20:59] <Stipl> laptop =/
[15:21:18] <Stipl> i got a serial port
[15:21:20] <mrfrenzy> Stipl: have a look if a willem programmer supports your chip
[15:21:22] <RikusW> how do you connect the pic programmer ?
[15:21:31] <Stipl> SERIALZ
[15:21:39] <mrfrenzy> if so, you just need to buy the programmer for a few dozen dollars
[15:21:56] <Stipl> how do i dump the data
[15:22:01] <Stipl> this is a i2c eeprom
[15:22:11] <mrfrenzy> put the chip in the programmer, run the windows software, and click on "read data"
[15:22:20] <Stipl> thats what im talking about
[15:22:26] <Stipl> THAT RIGHT THERE
[15:22:36] <Stipl> say hello to ur new sidekick
[15:22:44] <mrfrenzy> just google willem programmer, and look if your chip is in the supported list
[15:23:24] <mrfrenzy> Stipl: only payment we ask is that you hang around and help someone else someday
[15:23:45] <Stipl> sounds good
[15:23:51] <Stipl> its on my autojoin list
[15:24:06] <mrfrenzy> now I'm back to work, good luck
[15:24:11] <Stipl> although i do have a small project coming up
[15:24:20] <Stipl> and ill be paying cash for compensation
[15:25:16] <Stipl> ah too bad for me
[15:25:20] <Stipl> doesnt support it
[15:26:31] <mrfrenzy> there are others, slightly more expensive, now you know what to look for: eeprom programmers
[15:27:28] <mrfrenzy> I have a plan for a big hobby project: a universal eeprom programmer. I will make the hardware that can be programmed to support any electrical configuration, then the community will make chip definitions for it
[15:27:42] <mrfrenzy> the software will be free and I will get slightly rich on selling the hardware
[15:27:52] <mrfrenzy> whenever I get the time that is ;)
[15:29:25] <Stipl> sweet
[15:29:35] <Stipl> programs are programmer specific?
[15:29:49] <Stipl> or is there some good suggestions that work with multiple configurations
[15:31:04] <RikusW> Stipl: www.keil.com/forum/7117/
[15:31:48] <RikusW> Stipl: google -> i2c eeprom bitbang software <-
[15:31:52] <Stipl> i have an inchworm
[15:31:59] <Stipl> programmer that is...
[15:32:11] <Stipl> brb
[15:32:59] <Casper> so, I checked up for some bus... and it seems like canbus won't work for me... I have 2 wires only, possible ground loop... no shield :/
[15:33:08] <Casper> and star topology
[15:33:14] <Casper> fun isn't it?
[15:33:45] <mrfrenzy> there is one protocol which works in such cases, but some people hate it
[15:33:47] <mrfrenzy> 1-wire
[15:35:54] <jacekowski> Casper: can will work
[15:36:09] <jacekowski> Casper: you need single pair + common/shield
[15:36:24] <jacekowski> Casper: sort of
[15:36:26] <Casper> that's the prob
[15:36:36] <Casper> I have 1 pair and that's it
[15:36:38] <jacekowski> you don't really need shield
[15:36:49] <jacekowski> it will do
[15:36:57] <jacekowski> you just need CAN_H can_L
[15:37:07] <jacekowski> common and shield are not critical
[15:37:13] <Casper> don't I also need a ground?
[15:37:15] <jacekowski> unless you have a lot of noise
[15:37:16] <jacekowski> no
[15:37:21] <jacekowski> it's differential transmission
[15:37:34] <Casper> what about the star topology?
[15:37:56] <jacekowski> not going to happen
[15:38:09] <Casper> what do you mean?
[15:38:24] <jacekowski> there is nothing that can do star
[15:38:50] <jacekowski> because that requires terminating/biasing resistors at each end/drop
[15:38:51] <Casper> so what can I do since I have star wiring?
[15:39:17] <Casper> I want to use unused phone wires
[15:39:24] <RikusW> Casper: what kind of speed do you need ?
[15:39:24] <jacekowski> and then you overload transmitters because resistance is too low
[15:39:45] <Casper> RikusW: hmmm I guess a few kbit would be ok
[15:40:15] <jacekowski> that requres few kHz
[15:40:23] <jacekowski> over some shitty wire with star topology
[15:40:24] <Casper> the biggest bandwidth will be used by the GPS clock
[15:40:32] <jacekowski> what sort of distance
[15:40:50] <Casper> each wire have about 50ft
[15:40:58] <jacekowski> 15m
[15:41:21] <RikusW> 9600bps should work fine ?
[15:41:37] <Casper> probably
[15:41:37] <jacekowski> 485 requires 3 wires
[15:41:50] <Stipl> guys
[15:41:51] <Casper> if I could have more I'ld like, but I guess it could work
[15:41:52] <Stipl> i have a MPLAB ICD 2
[15:41:55] <Stipl> programmer
[15:41:57] <RikusW> try serial with some kind of bus arbitration ?
[15:42:00] <Stipl> will this work to dump an eeprom?
[15:42:17] <RikusW> Stipl: don't think so, not sure
[15:42:20] <jacekowski> RikusW: 232 you mean?
[15:42:27] <RikusW> yes
[15:42:41] <Casper> RikusW: actually, that is what I sadly tought of doing, serial open collector with high pullup
[15:42:48] <Casper> or a sort of 1 wire
[15:43:03] <RikusW> and ?
[15:43:10] <jacekowski> RikusW: single 15m cable is just at the limit of 232
[15:43:39] <jacekowski> RikusW: and you are talking about having few cables like that in parallel
[15:43:57] <RikusW> maybe lower the bitrate ?
[15:44:01] <RikusW> 1200bps ?
[15:44:28] <jacekowski> zigbee may be better way of doing it
[15:44:33] <Casper> that is why I'm puzzzled :/
[15:44:58] <jacekowski> Casper: but phone cables have ussualy 2 pairs
[15:45:07] <RikusW> 33k modems worked fine....
[15:45:16] <jacekowski> RikusW: wideband
[15:45:17] <Casper> I'll recheck, the wiring and see if I have 4 or 6 wires...
[15:45:22] <Casper> jacekowski: one pair is used for phone
[15:45:40] <jacekowski> Casper: then other pair is used for power ( for old phones )
[15:45:59] <jacekowski> Casper: and you don't really want phone stuff coming anywhere close to your data wires
[15:46:08] <jacekowski> Casper: phone ringing voltage is around 100V
[15:46:10] <RikusW> Casper: what about lightning ?
[15:46:39] <RikusW> if you're unlucky it will hit the phone line...
[15:47:08] <jacekowski> i'll be more worried about ringing voltages
[15:47:14] <jacekowski> which are going to happen
[15:47:14] <RikusW> I've seen some sparks fly, and it wasn't even a direct hit...
[15:47:28] <jacekowski> lightning may happen
[15:48:11] <RikusW> our phone company didn't replace the surge arrestors... finally the cut the lines because they didn't want to service the lines anymore....
[15:48:15] <RikusW> *they
[15:49:37] <Stipl> I found an eeprom programmer
[15:49:42] <Stipl> for 24XXX
[15:50:07] <Casper> jacekowski: other pairs are not connected
[15:50:26] <Stipl> but my eeprom is a 4L256I
[15:50:32] <Casper> and the lightning arrestor has been replaced a few years ago
[15:50:33] <Stipl> will this be compatible?
[15:51:58] <RikusW> Stipl: I think most 24xxx eeproms use about the same commands
[15:52:43] <Stipl> only 1 problem
[15:52:48] <Stipl> it says it supports 8 bit only
[15:53:06] <RikusW> eeprom is 8bit
[15:53:13] <Stipl> so no problem eh
[15:53:23] <Stipl> only thing is the darn thing works with parallel port...
[15:53:29] <Stipl> and i dont have one
[15:53:47] <RikusW> no serial port support ?
[15:53:59] <Stipl> dont know
[15:54:06] <Stipl> maybe a parallel 2 usb adaptor will work
[15:54:46] <RikusW> you'll need something like max232 to convert serial to 5V logic levels, then you could build a serial adapter
[15:55:09] <RikusW> there is software for serial port
[15:55:17] <Stipl> the programmer itself
[15:55:20] <Stipl> and program for it
[15:55:23] <Stipl> works with lpt
[16:00:07] <Casper> what about ponyprog serial?
[16:00:59] <RikusW> does it support i2c eeprom ?
[16:01:11] <Casper> I think so, check it up
[16:01:19] <Stipl> PC Parallel port programmer for the 24xxx, I2C bus and 93xxx EEPROMS. 8 bit programming mode only.
[16:13:32] <karlp> Casper: with only two wires, you can still use rs485. the star topology is recommended against, but if you keep to lower speeds / shorter runs, you can pretty much do whatever you want
[16:14:11] <Casper> there will be some long run, but that one I could put on repeater
[16:15:21] <mrfrenzy> with 1-wire you can always put an active hub, which I guess is pretty much the same as a repeater for rs485
[16:15:26] <jacekowski> NO
[16:15:35] <jacekowski> NEVER USE 485 WITH 2 WIRES
[16:15:40] <karlp> why not?
[16:15:48] <jacekowski> because it needs 3 wires
[16:16:08] <jacekowski> it's differential signalling with respect to common signal
[16:16:26] <karlp> yeah, ok, I guess it does. I tjust doesn't need to be ground per se
[16:16:29] <karlp> so shield normally.
[16:16:32] <jacekowski> no
[16:16:39] <karlp> Casper: use moah wires!
[16:16:42] <jacekowski> shield has to be connected only at single point
[16:16:51] <jacekowski> never connect shield to more than one point
[16:16:55] <Casper> karlp: hard when the walls are closed
[16:17:01] <karlp> (we're using 4 wires for rs485, v+, gnd, a, b)
[16:17:02] <jacekowski> that's another big mistake people do with 485
[16:17:14] <jacekowski> linking shield to common
[16:17:19] <jacekowski> at every single drop
[16:17:25] <jacekowski> karlp: v+?
[16:17:31] <karlp> jacekowski: you need to write a better article
[16:17:36] <jacekowski> karlp: you have supply in your data wires?
[16:17:51] <karlp> I've read the nat semi "designing bullet proof 485 networks" and it sounds like it could do with some updates from you
[16:17:53] <karlp> jacekowski: yep!
[16:18:00] <mrfrenzy> Casper: so this is some kind of in house system? why not use 1-wire
[16:18:05] <jacekowski> http://www.chipkin.com/articles/rs485-cables-why-you-need-3-wires-for-2-two-wire-rs485
[16:18:28] <jacekowski> karlp: it's really bad
[16:18:43] <Casper> mrfrenzy: 1 wire is what seems to be the only way... but... 1 wire also mean low device count
[16:18:45] <jacekowski> karlp: to have power wires and signal wires mixed like that
[16:19:18] <mrfrenzy> Casper: 100 devices is no problem
[16:19:20] <karlp> probably. providing power separately to each of them would be even worse.
[16:19:30] <Casper> mrfrenzy: they say 32 max
[16:19:37] <jacekowski> karlp: just run two parallel cables
[16:19:44] <jacekowski> karlp: power wires bring interferences
[16:19:54] <mrfrenzy> it has been tested with 100 devices on a single line, and you can have a 6 port hub on top of that if you like
[16:20:05] <jacekowski> karlp: if you have them inside same shield you are asking for problems
[16:20:18] <karlp> I actually think it's even unshield cable right now.
[16:20:29] <karlp> some of the links are 8cm of flat cable
[16:20:59] <karlp> this is inside the electrical cabinent, there's a metric boat load of power interference anyway, whether it's mine or someone elses
[16:21:12] <karlp> but this is very nice to hear real experiences
[16:21:27] <karlp> it seems 485 isn't talked about much online
[16:22:45] <jacekowski> karlp: i have working 485 installation that's over 1000m long and it's running at 115200 bps
[16:22:59] <Casper> I think I have 6 conductor cables... hmm
[16:23:06] <Casper> I'll check when I get home
[16:23:19] <jacekowski> very close to theoretical limits
[16:23:39] <jacekowski> and i have 30 devices connected to it
[16:23:42] <karlp> jacekowski: yeah, what little hard advice I could found mostly was about running closer to those edges, like hard drive controllers even.
[16:23:54] <mrfrenzy> any twisted pairs will run good with 1-wire
[16:24:05] <karlp> we're running modbus at 19200, over up to _maybe_ 5m or so
[16:24:38] <karlp> once we put on proper biasing resisters at the head end, it's all been pretty solid
[16:24:38] <jacekowski> same thing, people don't understand idea of biasing/terminating resistors on 485
[16:24:47] <jacekowski> and take 120ohms as gospel
[16:24:57] <jacekowski> where 120 is just a ballpark value that works most of the time
[16:24:58] <karlp> but only at the far end right?
[16:25:23] <karlp> we've got biasing up/down at the master node,
[16:25:33] <jacekowski> that resistor is to keep A and B at same voltage when nothing is transmitting
[16:25:51] <jacekowski> because then noise could do strange things when everything is in high-z mode
[16:26:07] <jacekowski> and to provide termination to keep voltage spikes down
[16:26:16] <jacekowski> and at the same time, not to overload transmitters
[16:26:27] <jacekowski> that's why star configuration is bad
[16:27:44] <jacekowski> but worst thing you can do is linking shields
[16:27:53] <jacekowski> to multiple points
[16:28:11] <jacekowski> everything else will just make it unreliable or just make it not work at all
[16:28:21] <jacekowski> connecting shield in multiple points can cause fire
[16:29:06] <karlp> but you _can_ use the "shield" as the third wire for signal ground right? as long as you don't ever connect it at any end to actual ground?
[16:30:25] <jacekowski> not really
[16:30:31] <jacekowski> shield will then pick up all noise
[16:30:41] <jacekowski> but it will not cause fire then
[16:30:47] <jacekowski> as long as it's not linked to real ground
[16:31:38] <karlp> how much do you really expect me to get with running DC power on a strand in the same cable? if the attached devices have "appropriate" decoupling, and their own power regulators on each one?
[16:31:51] <jacekowski> but ideally for long distance 485 you need 120ohm twisted pair with 2 pairs + shield
[16:31:52] <karlp> I've been under the impression that it would be basically stable
[16:32:07] <jacekowski> on short distances it's not a problem
[16:32:19] <jacekowski> but get a scope out and check it
[16:32:38] <jacekowski> i've had problems to get reliable 485 over 20m of cable at 9600
[16:32:47] <jacekowski> because it was missing proper termination/biasing
[16:32:49] <karlp> interesting.
[16:33:12] <karlp> yeah, on the first driver board we made, it was reallllly flaky, then I found out that biasing resistors weren't actually soldered on properly
[16:33:24] <karlp> all worked instantly when they were resoldered
[16:33:49] <jacekowski> and 485 standard requires for 485 drivers to be separated from device ground
[16:33:49] <karlp> heh, there's someone in ##stm32 also working on 485 right now
[16:34:07] <jacekowski> maxim makes nice single chip solution for it
[16:34:09] <jacekowski> expensive
[16:34:30] <jacekowski> but it has internall power supply for other side of driver
[16:34:39] <jacekowski> and optical separation
[16:35:12] <karlp> we're using some reallllly cheap 761678 (whatever the TI standard footprint part is) clones
[16:35:21] <jacekowski> http://www.chipkin.com/articles/rs485-cables-why-you-need-3-wires-for-2-two-wire-rs485
[16:35:46] <jacekowski> karlp: how do you do separation?
[16:36:30] <karlp> which separation?
[16:36:39] <jacekowski> galvanic separation
[16:36:52] <jacekowski> of 485 bus to everything else
[16:36:52] * karlp points at the hardware guy at the other desk :)
[16:37:18] <karlp> as they're all powered off our cable anyway, we treat them as not separated
[16:37:49] <jacekowski> i've worked it out that it's not much cheaper to do it on 75176 + transformers+something to drive it or dc/dc converter and all optocoulers
[16:38:12] <jacekowski> and it works out that you save 20-30% on parts to do 485
[16:38:18] <jacekowski> but then board is bigger
[16:38:23] <jacekowski> and you have more componends
[16:38:33] <jacekowski> and more things to go wrong
[16:38:55] <karlp> for the device that _is_ connected to something else, we're using one of the rf couplers, like the ADuM1401, but someone else's clone
[16:39:28] <karlp> the avr side runs on the 485 bus's v+/gnd, and talks through the isolator to the other board.
[16:39:41] <jacekowski> yeah, i was thinking about them for my other project
[16:39:49] <jacekowski> where i had mains voltage present
[16:39:54] <jacekowski> and how to separate SPI
[16:40:34] <karlp> that's pretty much exactly what we're using it for :)
[16:41:29] <Casper> AUTOTUNE SUCK!
[16:42:02] <jacekowski> i've ended going for VTs rather than resistor dividers for voltage sensing because of that
[16:42:25] <jacekowski> but resistors dividers would have been better for picking up all noise and everything
[16:42:55] <jacekowski> anyways
[16:42:57] <jacekowski> sleep time
[16:42:58] <karlp> VTs? transformers?
[16:44:39] <jacekowski> yeah
[16:44:52] <jacekowski> but those are wound in quite specific way
[16:45:15] <jacekowski> so voltage drops are minimal
[16:45:37] <jacekowski> as those are not typical power transformers but instrumentation transformers
[18:34:49] <Casper> jacekowski: let's say that I go with 1 wire, and I happend to have a ground loop.... that would be very bad isn't it?
[20:27:33] <rue_house> vt: voltage transformer
[20:27:42] <rue_house> ct: current transformer
[20:27:53] <rue_house> rt: robot transformer
[20:28:07] <rue_house> WHICH IS THE BEST KIND DONT CHA KNOW!
[21:02:02] <LikWidChz> anyone have an arduino nano?
[21:04:45] <Casper> rue_house: is it legal to have an outlet in the attic?
[21:05:46] <LikWidChz> ha
[21:05:51] <LikWidChz> who will catch you?
[21:06:50] <LikWidChz> Oh hey casper, they have a command called pulsin for the arduino wonder if that will do what I want.. its REALLY tempting to buy one of those arduino nanos... hopefully its fast enough to do waht i want
[21:09:18] <rue_house> Casper, depends on how big the attic is
[21:10:55] <Casper> rue_house: a real normal attic
[21:10:59] <Casper> with no floor
[21:11:05] <Casper> and 16x16" access trap
[21:11:15] <rue_house> is there more than a meter of room infront of the plug?
[21:11:33] <Casper> yes, but insulation as the floor
[21:11:49] <rue_house> is the plug for a specific purpose?
[21:13:17] <Casper> yeah, xmas light
[21:14:13] <Casper> I have 2 choices: make a small hole bring an extension cord inside the attic or make an extension cord go on the roof...
[21:14:53] <LikWidChz> well have it go on the roof a fire is better on the outside of your house, rather then inside your house
[21:16:19] <Casper> but an extension cord is ugly on the roof
[21:16:39] <LikWidChz> hahahah
[21:16:50] <LikWidChz> so are christmas lights :)
[21:16:50] <Tom_itx> Casper i put one up there
[21:17:12] <Tom_itx> mounted 2 lights with pull chains too
[21:17:26] <Tom_itx> did i ask?
[21:17:48] <mrfrenzy> Casper: a mostly unused outlet on the attic will not cause a fire. your biggest concern is water leakage from the hole where your cable exits
[21:17:58] <mrfrenzy> just make sure it gets properly sealed afterwards
[21:18:15] <Tom_itx> if you're worried about that use an outdoor receptacle
[21:18:34] <Casper> mrfrenzy: it's not the load that worry me, it's if the outlet actually go faulty and go sparkly
[21:18:46] <Casper> and yes, they can go sparkly, I saw one when I was a kid
[21:18:48] <mrfrenzy> unless the attic is insulated, you MUST use an outdoor outlet
[21:19:01] <Casper> almost burned down the couch...
[21:19:05] <mrfrenzy> they cannot go sparkly when unused, unless very poorly installed
[21:19:19] <Casper> they can go sparkly when unused
[21:19:39] <mrfrenzy> then it was improperly installed
[21:19:44] <mrfrenzy> or you recently had a lightning strike
[21:20:01] <Casper> nope... don't ask how, I don't know
[21:20:12] <Casper> all I know is that we found it cracked
[21:20:18] <mrfrenzy> just open one up and look at the construction
[21:20:27] <Casper> I don't care what you're saying
[21:20:32] <Valen> unless it rains inside your roof theres no paticular reason to use an outside outlet inside
[21:20:48] <mrfrenzy> for sparks to happen, it must be filled with water, or it must be taken apart and the two cables touch eachother
[21:20:51] <Casper> because our house almost burned down due to one that went BZZZZZZZZZZ and spilled sparks
[21:21:11] <Valen> that or rats got into it or some such
[21:21:24] <mrfrenzy> overload, bad conctacts or moisture, or heavy physical abuse
[21:21:50] <Casper> whatever is the cause. it's not supposed to happend, but can
[21:21:54] <mrfrenzy> if you are concerned about fire safety, get a GFCI and centrally connected smoke detectors
[21:22:15] <Valen> you can stick a fork in one too
[21:22:23] <Casper> and if it happend, and that the outlet cause the house to burn down and wasn't proprelly installed then they don't pay
[21:22:28] <mrfrenzy> regarding your question "is it legal?" that depends on what country and state you are in
[21:22:33] <Casper> and GFCI may not work
[21:22:36] <Valen> and an outdoors plug won't stop that from happening
[21:22:57] <mrfrenzy> gfci is an extra security for those few occasions when properly installed equipment fails
[21:23:08] <Valen> or you do something dumb
[21:23:08] <Casper> GFCI only and only work if there is a ground fault. if somehow the internal break and touch it will not trigger
[21:23:08] <mrfrenzy> do you ever drive to work?
[21:23:28] <Valen> Casper: if it arcs inside itself it should trip the fuse
[21:23:38] <Casper> and anyway, I asked about the LEGALITY of it
[21:23:46] <mrfrenzy> the risk of getting killed in a car accident is 5000 times greater than a single outlet causing fire
[21:23:57] <mrfrenzy> Casper: you did not say in what jurisdiction
[21:24:11] <Casper> mrfrenzy: notice that I asked rue
[21:24:33] <mrfrenzy> why did you not /query rue_house ?
[21:24:51] <rue_house> hu?
[21:24:55] <mrfrenzy> and why ask him personally, is he an electrician or lawyer in your jurisdiction?
[21:25:02] <Casper> why would I?
[21:25:12] <Tom_itx> mrfrenzy yes
[21:25:15] <rue_house> do the extnesion cord off the roof
[21:25:45] <Casper> rue_house: that's what I was thinking to do, atleast for this year... I'm planning to add some light-o-rama next year
[21:26:18] <mrfrenzy> now goodnight
[21:26:23] <Casper> nite
[21:26:32] <rue_house> get a set of plugs installed under an eve
[21:26:34] <rue_house> eave?
[21:26:44] <Tom_itx> soffet
[21:26:48] <rue_house> yea
[21:26:53] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:27:18] <Casper> thinking about it... I'll use extension cord
[21:27:30] <Casper> just remembered the fun I got to pass the antenna wire...
[21:27:46] <Casper> even if there is plently of space for the wire...
[21:28:13] <Tom_itx> and you didn't tie a string and pull it thru for next time?
[21:28:16] <Tom_itx> shame on you
[21:29:12] <Casper> had too much on my mind
[21:29:15] <Casper> and too little time
[22:14:29] <aarobc> Hello, I have a noob question. I'm trying to get some demo code to compile and run on an atmega328, but the err I'm getting is UBRR3H is undeclaired. What is UBRR3H ?
[22:14:47] <aarobc> Googling it has turned up nothing
[22:16:54] <Tom_itx> ubrr register
[22:16:59] <Tom_itx> is 16 bit i believe
[22:17:04] <Tom_itx> that's the High part
[22:17:14] <Tom_itx> serial?
[22:17:58] <aarobc> Tom_itx: yeah, so then how would I make it work for an 8 bit chip?
[22:18:08] <Tom_itx> it is
[22:18:10] <Tom_itx> probably
[22:18:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[22:18:42] <Tom_itx> go thru some of those instead
[22:18:53] <Tom_itx> chang the chip in the makefile and check the freq
[22:19:03] <Tom_itx> those are for the 168 which is the same pinout
[22:19:46] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_rs232_index.php
[22:19:59] <aarobc> Tom_itx: ooh, these look handy, much thanks!
[22:20:01] <Tom_itx> UBRR is the baud rate selector
[22:20:12] <Tom_itx> and you'll need this:
[22:20:22] <Stipl> hey guys
[22:20:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.wormfood.net/avrbaudcalc.php
[22:20:31] <Stipl> im trying to extract data from an eeprom
[22:20:44] <Stipl> and after searching for eeprom programmers
[22:20:48] <Stipl> a thought dawned on me
[22:20:52] <Casper> aarobc: are you sure that your makefile is fine?
[22:21:07] <Stipl> how about a simple PIC programmed to simply send the data from the eeprom to RS232
[22:21:09] <Casper> and does your atmega have 4 serial ports?
[22:21:26] <Stipl> its an i2c eeprom / 24CXXX
[22:21:33] <aarobc> Casper: I'm just using avr studio, I assume it is
[22:21:42] <Casper> Stipl: that could work, but have you looked at ponyprog serial?
[22:21:47] <CapnKernel> Stipl: Hint: This is not #pic
[22:21:58] <Casper> aarobc: check to be sure that you set it for the right microcontroller
[22:22:20] <Tom_itx> just told him that
[22:22:43] <Tom_itx> aarobc set it for an external makefile and use mine
[22:22:46] <Stipl> there is no pic channel
[22:22:53] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:22:55] <Stipl> Casper: or is there...?
[22:23:00] <Tom_itx> happy trails
[22:23:23] <Valen> you could perhaps even use the pic programmer to read it out
[22:23:26] <CapnKernel> No. 1 reason to use AVR: #avr :-)
[22:23:43] <Stipl> hehe
[22:23:51] <Stipl> valen
[22:23:56] <Stipl> i have a mplab pic programmer
[22:24:02] <Valen> i know the pickit2 was compatible with a bunch of eeproms
[22:24:03] <Stipl> but i dont thn it can be used to read eeproms
[22:24:15] <Stipl> i have icd2 mplab programmer
[22:24:58] <Valen> looks like your out of luck then
[22:25:16] <Stipl> >_<
[22:25:21] <Stipl> dont think so
[22:25:26] <Tom_itx> what's the eeprom look like?
[22:25:37] <Valen> a little black thing with shiny legs
[22:25:47] <Stipl> if i just program a pic with simple i2c program to extract the data
[22:25:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/mtkflash/flash_howto_index.php
[22:25:52] <Stipl> that should work fine
[22:25:55] <Tom_itx> take a look at that
[22:26:06] <Tom_itx> and start hunting for an old dvd
[22:27:04] <Stipl> =/
[22:27:14] <Stipl> that socket doesnt look like it was made for an 8 pin eeprom
[22:27:14] <Tom_itx> it works
[22:27:18] <Stipl> is there a pic channel?
[22:27:22] <Tom_itx> NO
[22:27:28] <Stipl> jeez
[22:27:35] <Tom_itx> serial eeprom?
[22:27:37] <Tom_itx> sry
[22:27:39] <Tom_itx> missed that
[22:27:40] <Stipl> i2c eeprom
[22:27:47] <Tom_itx> same diff
[22:28:20] <Stipl> guys
[22:28:23] <Stipl> dont be prejudiced
[22:28:47] <Tom_itx> i've been down the pic road
[22:29:26] <CapnKernel> So the DVD drive is used solely as an EEPROM programmer?
[22:29:48] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:30:01] <CapnKernel> Stipl: I'll use PIC when I can get a free-as-in-freedom toolchain for it.
[22:30:12] <CapnKernel> That's gross. <respect!>
[22:30:29] <Stipl> somebody should just make a friggin eeprom programmer out of a pic
[22:30:33] <Stipl> SO Fin simple
[22:30:59] <Stipl> would work with rs232, usb,m etc
[22:31:06] <CapnKernel> Stipl: Go on then.
[22:31:08] <Stipl> some sample i2c code
[22:31:22] <CapnKernel> And you can go discuss it in #pic
[22:31:25] <Stipl> im just surprised it hasnt been done
[22:31:28] <Stipl> pic is empty
[22:31:29] <Stipl> asswipe
[22:31:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/Dallas%20RTC%20Code/
[22:31:41] <Tom_itx> i2c
[22:31:44] <Tom_itx> clock code
[22:32:58] <Tom_itx> rue could probably help you
[22:33:05] <Tom_itx> not sure he's so inclined
[22:33:38] <Tom_itx> he can speak for himself though
[22:33:46] <Stipl> rue would help
[22:33:56] <Stipl> thats the difference between rue and some people
[22:34:01] <Tom_itx> i tried
[22:34:07] <Stipl> i appreciate it tom
[22:34:11] <Tom_itx> but this _is_ avr
[22:34:14] <Stipl> dont know what the heck to do with that
[22:34:17] <CapnKernel> Stipl: You're taking advantage of several very friendly people.
[22:34:17] <Stipl> but appreciate it
[22:34:30] <Tom_itx> naa he's ok
[22:34:39] <Tom_itx> but i'm not sure you'll find what you need here
[22:35:04] <Tom_itx> game file?
[22:35:23] <CapnKernel> Stipl: I have no problem with you, and I wish you all the best, but going on about PICs would be like going on about Python in the Ruby channel.
[22:35:26] <Tom_itx> what's on the eeprom?
[22:36:53] <Stipl> CapnKernel I get ur grievences
[22:37:00] <Stipl> but if u know one
[22:37:08] <Stipl> ud know a bit about the other, inherently
[22:37:29] <Stipl> and im not taking advantage, not intentionally anyhow
[22:37:38] <Stipl> my time constraints may be making me seem a little rude
[22:37:40] <Stipl> my apologies
[22:37:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.circuit-projects.com/microcontroller/pic-and-eeprom-programmer.html
[22:37:55] <Stipl> and tom, its logged data for a project
[22:38:00] <Stipl> the board has gone to sth
[22:38:08] <Stipl> but i know the eeprom data is still good
[22:39:47] <Stipl> ok guys
[22:39:50] <Stipl> im declaring it
[22:39:53] <Stipl> rue is the man
[22:41:01] <rue_house> who is dude
[22:41:26] <Stipl> DUDE
[22:42:06] <ziph> abcminiuser: Does the LUFA NXP port have a special license from you?
[22:42:19] <abcminiuser> ziph, yup
[22:42:33] <ziph> abcminiuser: Get any money for it? :)
[22:42:40] <abcminiuser> License to freely modify and distribute under their own terms, as long as it is restricted to their silicon only
[22:42:48] <abcminiuser> Yes, a very, very small canoe full
[22:42:59] <ziph> Heh, good to hear. :)
[22:43:01] <Tom_itx> kayak?
[22:43:05] <abcminiuser> Enough for a new cheap 2 door car :P
[22:43:12] <Stipl> abcminiuser dont let the money change u man
[22:43:18] <Stipl> seen it all the time
[22:43:23] <Stipl> programmers get their code licensed
[22:43:25] <abcminiuser> Stipl, I hope not, I was paid several months ago
[22:43:27] <ziph> So how close is the internal code to AVR LUFA?
[22:43:28] <Stipl> start living the high life
[22:43:36] <Stipl> hittin the arcades all night long
[22:43:43] <abcminiuser> ziph, identical core, with their own LPC/ specific folders
[22:43:52] <Stipl> drinking frilly sugar drinks until their teeth fall out
[22:43:56] <abcminiuser> Stipl, that's me, I'm an entitled jerk now
[22:43:58] <abcminiuser> Oh wait...
[22:44:02] <Stipl> trust me bro.. its a long way down
[22:44:08] <ziph> abcminiuser: So a lowlevel demo runs completely unchanged?
[22:44:29] <abcminiuser> IIRC they're going for class driver compat, not low level
[22:44:36] <Stipl> thanks for the suggestion Tom_itx
[22:44:38] <abcminiuser> But frankly I haven't looked over the code
[22:47:51] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser you packin your bags yet?
[22:48:11] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, still need to finish my thesis
[22:48:14] <abcminiuser> Leave early Jan
[22:48:19] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[22:48:39] <ziph> Isn't that due about now? :)
[22:48:47] <Tom_itx> how's the bot code working out?
[22:56:12] <Casper> is it possible to network plain avr in tcp?
[22:56:18] <Casper> and is it hard?
[22:57:01] <abcminiuser> ziph, two weeks
[22:57:12] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, finished it - it's not complete, but it's functional
[22:57:23] <ziph> Casper: uIP and lwIP can do it.
[22:57:30] <abcminiuser> Didn't complete reliable packet buffer layer and some of the services
[22:57:38] <abcminiuser> But it does everything I wanted it to do as a robot
[22:57:59] <abcminiuser> Casper, note that the official uIP 1.0 release on the web is VERY outdated
[22:58:01] <ziph> Casper: abcminiuser has had TCP/IP running over PPP for USB wireless keys I think.
[22:58:03] <Casper> ziph: is it hard to receive and send data with it?
[22:58:05] <Stipl> 8051
[22:58:13] <abcminiuser> You need to extract the latest uIP code from the larger "Contiki" project
[22:58:15] <Stipl> tcp/ip
[22:58:21] <abcminiuser> ziph, yup
[22:58:28] <abcminiuser> Casper, I'll find some code, one sec
[22:58:43] <Casper> I don't want code, just want to know how complex it get
[22:59:04] <ziph> How long is a piece of beef jerky?
[22:59:16] <abcminiuser> Casper,
https://code.google.com/p/lufa-lib/source/browse/trunk#trunk%2FProjects%2FWebserver
[22:59:29] <abcminiuser> The Lib/ dir contains all the uIP glue
[23:01:00] <Casper> still no answer: is it simple to use?
[23:01:19] <Stipl> casper
[23:02:44] <Casper> Stipl: ?
[23:06:38] <Casper> abcminiuser_: how hard is it to use?
[23:08:27] <Stipl> 8051 casper
[23:08:50] <Stipl> there are stacks and such already available
[23:08:56] <Stipl> i was reading something about it today
[23:09:09] <Stipl> trying to find a file of a guy who provided a completed stack with flash demo
[23:09:31] <Casper> ok
[23:09:51] <Casper> I guess I should just try to do some tests for 1 wire bus or something
[23:10:55] <Tom_itx> want i2c that clock code has some functions in it for avr
[23:11:35] <Stipl> Casper
http://www.edaboard.com/thread17811.html
[23:11:46] <Stipl> probably worthless........
[23:11:55] <Stipl> but it may be fate
[23:12:02] <Stipl> bottom post
[23:13:12] <Casper> do you think you can successfully make rj11 connectors with rj45 crimpers?
[23:13:34] <Stipl> me yes.. u...
[23:13:37] <Stipl> heh ;)
[23:14:36] <Stipl> my jokes r funny because they make me laugh.. and thats whats important
[23:14:51] <abcminiuser_> Casper, depends on how you want to use it
[23:15:07] <abcminiuser_> It's as good as you'll get in an embedded environment
[23:17:35] <h4x0r`> hey in eaglecad, how can i add just a pad, like a ball or soemthng?
[23:17:44] <h4x0r`> as opposed to say a pin header.
[23:18:19] <Casper> abcminiuser_: really, I doubt I need more than like 9600bps so I see ethernet as being way overkill. however I only have access to network and phone lines... so...
[23:18:34] <Casper> h4x0r`: like for a wirepad?
[23:18:44] <h4x0r`> yea
[23:19:00] <abcminiuser_> uIP just gives you hooks for timeout management, connection management, and a bunch of functions to initiate and accept connections/data
[23:19:01] <h4x0r`> exactly.. a wire that goes to "just a pad"
[23:19:12] <Casper> wirepad library
[23:19:13] <abcminiuser_> You need to jam your services on top of that, like my HTTP webserver etc
[23:19:55] <h4x0r`> Casper, ty
[23:41:31] <Stipl> whats the diff between ihex and regular hex
[23:45:31] <ziph> iHex only ccmes in white and costs twice as much.
[23:46:02] <Stipl> heh.. no difference?
[23:46:19] <ziph> ihex is intel hex, where each line has a type byte and address.
[23:46:35] <ziph> Not sure about hex, maybe it's just a raw file with hex instead of binary bytes.
[23:49:37] <theBear> at a file level raw hex and raw bin look the same, all depends how you "look at them"
[23:49:51] <theBear> heck, a text file looks the same
[23:50:15] <theBear> but pretty sure that .hex USUALLY means just raw hex data, byte by byte