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[00:00:35] <inflex> bbl
[00:36:31] <inflex> oh bloody hell... my PCBs haven't even left Sydney yet... and they've been there 2 days!!!!
[00:36:54] <inflex> As usual, shipments go quite quickly -until- they land in Australia, then it's freaking molasses
[00:57:29] <inflex> So, who's good with math around here?
[00:59:08] <inflex> if I've got a 24-bit ADC, and I'm combining two values read from it in the form of ... r = a * K / b (where a and b are two ADC samples), how does the precision / accuracy of 'r' vary as a&b move across their allowable range, given that we're dealing with integer math here
[01:00:38] <ziph> inflex: What kind of error are you assuming a and b have?
[01:01:04] <inflex> ziph: I'm assuming none, rather what I'm wondering about is how much precision loss / error does the math itself induce
[01:01:24] <inflex> eg, a = 1, b = 0xFFFFFFFF -1 etc
[01:02:54] <inflex> right now I'm trying to come up with a legitimate precision and accuracy value set for my LOM, based on more than just emperical evidence
[01:03:29] <ziph> The error is just the rounding after the divide.
[01:03:45] <ziph> (Well, the truncation)
[01:04:09] <inflex> the actual ADC gives me 22.5 real bits, 32 total bits, 2.5ppm full scale error, 0.1ppm offset, 0.16ppm noise
[01:04:35] <ziph> The 22.5 is the ENOB?
[01:05:00] <ziph> Or your range doesn't use the high bits?
[01:05:39] <inflex> I use all the bits
[01:05:58] <inflex> since I'm multisampling with a sliding-window algorithm
[01:06:47] <inflex> realistically, I'm hitting the noise floor at 19bits though, because I've got a max of 0.6V input, and the ADC has an 880nV noise floor
[01:07:25] <inflex> so it's more like a 5.5 digit LOM
[01:08:24] <inflex> ( the ADC is a Linear LTC2412 unit - good data sheet, has more data than I can process in my head ;) )
[01:10:05] <ziph> Well...
[01:11:58] <inflex> the actual formula I use is resistance = adc_unknown *stored_reference_value / adc_reference - now my rusty math brain says that as I reduce the internal reference resistor, I also lose out on the interger division
[01:12:24] <ziph> The adc_reference?
[01:12:44] <inflex> adc_reference is the ADC value for the reference resistor being measured
[01:13:11] <inflex> Vcc------[ unknown ]------[ reference ]-------GND
[01:13:38] <inflex> so I'm measuring Vunknown and Vreference with the ADC
[01:13:50] <inflex> and I know beforehand the actual R value of "reference"
[01:14:19] <inflex> thus deducing Runknown is just the simple ratiometric formula
[01:14:33] <inflex> which of course eliminates the need to know Vcc or I
[01:14:34] <ziph> You can scale the numerator up for more accuracy.
[01:14:47] <ziph> Your result is then a fixed point number.
[01:15:05] <inflex> right, precisely - which is why I'm thinking as I reduce the "reference" resistor, I'm trading off accuracy
[01:15:16] <inflex> but as you say, I could always just multiply it temporariliy to push it up
[01:20:23] <inflex> I should get my temperature controlled box going properly so I can really test these things more
[01:20:58] <inflex> found this site - very nice for helpingme work out the figures too -
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3295
[10:26:32] <TwisteR> I have a couple of questions about Pelco-D protocol
[10:27:01] <TwisteR> http://cvs.ru/files/pelco-d.pdf
[10:27:38] <TwisteR> according to that document, "Devices that receive the “D” protocol may generate a response."
[10:28:53] <TwisteR> but this article has another opinion:
http://www.commfront.com/RS232_Examples/CCTV/Pelco_D_Pelco_P_Examples_Tutorial.HTM#3
[10:29:05] <TwisteR> "Note: there will be no response from cameras in Pelco-D protocol"
[10:31:17] <TwisteR> If pelco-d devices can generate responses (alarms, for example), how then the packet collision are handled on RS-485 bus?
[11:46:42] <RikusW> Steffanx: tried compiling yet ?
[11:46:51] <Steffanx> Oh, sorry totally forget about it
[11:46:55] <Steffanx> *forgot
[11:47:08] <Steffanx> Should I try it on os x or (k)ubuntu ?
[11:47:14] * RikusW is not in a hurry ;)
[11:47:25] <RikusW> kubuntu should be easier
[11:47:34] <RikusW> since when do you have access to that ?
[11:47:39] <Steffanx> VM ..
[11:47:49] <RikusW> with qt4 now ?
[11:48:02] <RikusW> the dev files ? and libusb dev files too ?
[11:48:13] <Steffanx> Not yet, but i can apt-get that :)
[11:48:56] <RikusW> I downloaded libusb-0.1.12
[11:49:05] <RikusW> compiled from source
[11:50:21] <RikusW> I forgot about jtagice serial baudrate setting.... not using serial....
[11:50:32] <RikusW> only usb now :)
[11:51:06] <Steffanx> Who uses that anyway?
[11:51:07] <RikusW> ooh... a read stk500 wouldn't work either =-O
[11:51:13] <RikusW> *real
[11:51:35] <RikusW> my clone use usb cdc, so baud is ignored...
[11:52:53] <RikusW> baud is a hassle...
[11:53:49] <Steffanx> Argh, i hate this
[11:53:57] <Steffanx> When something doesn't work out of the box
[11:54:13] <soul-d> what box did you open
[11:54:23] <Steffanx> qmake and RikusW's project
[11:54:42] <RikusW> qmake-qt4 ?
[11:54:52] <Steffanx> qmake-qt4.6 :)
[11:54:59] <RikusW> works fine over here....
[11:55:01] <Steffanx> WARNING: Ignored (not found) '/Users/xxxxxx/Downloads/RavrProg/qextserialport/qextserialport.pbproj'
[11:55:05] <Steffanx> And that for all projects
[11:55:14] <RikusW> huh ?!
[11:55:27] <Steffanx> Yeah
[11:55:34] <RikusW> Qt must have changed something...
[11:56:00] <RikusW> maybe renamed .pro to .pbproj ?! argh
[11:56:31] <Steffanx> Ah
[11:56:55] <RikusW> you need to call qmake from the dir containing 20111027....
[11:57:15] <RikusW> ..seems you did
[11:57:30] <Steffanx> Yeah
[11:57:38] <RikusW> using a date instead of version number...
[11:57:40] <Steffanx> When i changed it too pbproj it seems to work
[11:58:02] <RikusW> ugh on more little hassle...
[11:58:07] <RikusW> *one
[11:58:33] <Steffanx> Not luck
[11:58:54] <RikusW> seems they changed too much then :(
[11:59:36] <RikusW> rikus@Rikus24:~$ qmake-qt4 --version
[11:59:37] <RikusW> QMake version 2.01a
[11:59:37] <RikusW> Using Qt version 4.2.1 in /usr/lib
[12:00:07] <RikusW> would it be possible to install an older version ?
[12:00:15] <RikusW> or maybe just use os x...
[12:00:51] <Steffanx> I use os x :)
[12:01:08] <RikusW> but it compiled last time ?
[12:01:23] <RikusW> or was that before your upgrade ?
[12:06:20] <ferdna> RikusW, you are better off asking at the Qt channel... i my self am a Qt developer...
[12:07:08] <ferdna> sorry, it was meant to Steffanx
[12:07:25] <ferdna> ...
[12:07:47] <ferdna> i need a inexpensive positive photoresist where can i purchase?
[12:07:56] <Steffanx> It's his project ferdna :P
[12:08:25] <RikusW> ferdna: RS
[12:08:36] <ferdna> Steffanx, oh ok... didnt read the whole thing... =)
[12:08:49] <ferdna> RikusW, RS = radio shack?
[12:09:03] <RikusW> ferdna: part nr: 1989651
[12:09:08] <RikusW> no
[12:09:39] <RikusW> rs-online.com
[12:10:01] <RikusW> use NaOH as developer
[12:10:11] <ferdna> RikusW, i ordered naoh
[12:10:32] <RikusW> thats quite cheap compared to the resist...
[12:10:39] <Steffanx> You should make your code more 64bit compatible to get rid of some warnings RikusW :)
[12:10:49] <RikusW> you only need a few grams per liter water
[12:10:51] <Steffanx> Especially the sizeof + printf warnings
[12:11:30] <RikusW> How do I enable gcc to cross compile for x64 ?
[12:11:47] <RikusW> some printf warnings are just plain stupid....
[12:12:14] <ferdna> what project is this that you guys are talking about?
[12:12:20] <Steffanx> ravrprog
[12:12:33] <ferdna> RikusW, i couldn't find the part number you gave me
[12:12:38] <ferdna> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6610238
[12:13:00] <RikusW> Qt4 gui for avr programmers
[12:13:05] <ferdna> Steffanx, url?
[12:13:09] <Steffanx> No website
[12:13:14] <RikusW> 198-9651 on rs-online.com ?
[12:13:35] <RikusW> Steffanx: can mail it to you if you'd like ?
[12:14:11] <RikusW> ferdna: it alpha software....
[12:14:12] <Steffanx> Hmm, i have to write down the things i change to make it compile
[12:14:21] <ferdna> me would like to see a screenshot...
[12:14:22] <Steffanx> Now i have the same error as last time, but i don't remember how i fixed it
[12:14:51] <RikusW> Steffanx: I changed the file functions to 32bit by default...
[12:14:53] <RikusW> ferdna:
http://www.image-share.com/ipng-875-235.html
[12:14:56] <ferdna> RikusW, are you from india?
[12:15:03] <RikusW> no South Africa
[12:15:16] <RikusW> what makes you think India ?
[12:16:08] <ferdna> RikusW, the rs prices prefix when i search for 198-9651
[12:16:09] <ferdna> http://in.rsdelivers.com/product/rs/aerosol-photoresist-solution-200ml/1989651.aspx
[12:16:40] <RikusW> seems right
[12:16:53] <RikusW> you have to choose your country for pricing...
[12:17:27] <RikusW> this is what I use
http://za.rs-online.com/
[12:18:35] <ferdna> RikusW, didnt work
[12:18:37] <ferdna> hehehe
[12:18:42] <RikusW> ferdna: If you'd like a peek ask Steffanx to mail it to you
[12:19:05] <ferdna> he did
[12:19:17] <Steffanx> I did?
[12:19:30] <RikusW> my link is kinda slow... :S
[12:24:35] <ferdna> Steffanx, yeah the screenshot, no?
[12:24:42] <Steffanx> That wasn't me
[12:24:55] <RikusW> I pasted
http://www.image-share.com/ipng-875-235.html
[12:24:58] <ferdna> oh yeah thats true it was rikus
[12:25:01] <ferdna> yeah
[12:25:02] <ferdna> hehehe
[12:25:06] <ferdna> anyways i found it
[12:25:08] <ferdna> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/418-500ML/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvcAs5GUBtMdYw2mgUdPlYr
[12:25:35] <Steffanx> The fun of compiling "not found for architecture x86_64"
[12:26:02] <RikusW> what was not found ?
[12:26:13] <ferdna> the developer
[12:26:37] <ferdna> Steffanx, make sure in your .pro you have the right paths to the 64 bit libraries
[12:27:27] <Steffanx> I've had the problem before, i h ave no idea how i fixed it
[12:27:55] <RikusW> you should have written it down somewhere :-P
[12:28:03] <RikusW> in Readme.txt...
[12:28:33] <Steffanx> I had to had a Qt related lib to the .pro file, but which one was it ? :)
[12:31:51] <ferdna> Steffanx, the .pro file tells you
[12:32:00] <ferdna> give me a copy and i'll try to compile it
[12:32:18] <Steffanx> The .pro file tells me nothng..
[12:32:40] <ferdna> Steffanx, look in your LIBS += and INCLUDES +=
[12:33:12] <ferdna> RikusW, can you tell me the steps that you use to develop your boards?
[12:34:03] <RikusW> ferdna: I still have to... must get a laser printer...
[12:34:31] <ferdna> i do have a nice solid state ink printer! =)
[12:34:32] <RikusW> anyways there came a little piece of paper with instructions with the resist
[12:34:43] <ferdna> can you scan that?
[12:37:21] <RikusW> the scanner is packed away... could later
[12:37:35] <RikusW> there should come instructions with the resist
[12:59:07] <RikusW> ferdna:
http://www.image-share.com/ijpg-1022-55.html photoresist
[12:59:53] <ferdna> thanks =)
[13:00:02] <RikusW> gimped it a bit
[13:00:11] <RikusW> original was 8MB...
[13:00:50] <ferdna> nice
[13:00:51] <RikusW> its made by electrolube
[13:01:08] <ferdna> RikusW, this one is liquid
[13:01:09] <ferdna> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/418-500ML/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvcAs5GUBtMdYw2mgUdPlYr
[13:01:15] <ferdna> how do i use that one?
[13:01:21] <RikusW> not a spray can ?
[13:01:25] <ferdna> nope
[13:01:33] <RikusW> paint it on ?
[13:01:37] <RikusW> thinly..
[13:01:47] <RikusW> what does it cost ?
[13:02:39] <ferdna> 10 dllrs
[13:02:58] <RikusW> cheaper than mine...
[13:03:11] <ferdna> how much is it in dollars for yours?
[13:03:13] <RikusW> it was like $20 for 200ml....
[13:03:19] <RikusW> ZAR150...
[13:03:28] <ferdna> =)
[13:03:32] <RikusW> RS is expensive...
[13:03:41] <RikusW> but cheap on some other items...
[13:04:00] <ferdna> if you ever want me to ship this stuff to you just let me know
[13:04:10] <RikusW> does mouser ship to SA ?
[13:04:16] <ferdna> have no idea
[13:04:29] <ferdna> RikusW, Available in USA only. Must ship UPS or FedEx Ground.
[13:04:35] <ferdna> thats what the site says
[13:07:44] <ferdna> RikusW, do you have a blog?
[13:07:52] <RikusW> seems that if I ever want an xmega I'd have to get someone to ship it over... :S
[13:07:57] <RikusW> ferdna: no
[13:08:15] <RikusW> stupid encryption licensing stuff...
[13:08:25] <ferdna> =/
[13:08:33] <RikusW> but that would break a few laws...
[13:09:07] <RikusW> ferdna:
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[13:09:12] <RikusW> my project
[13:10:01] <RikusW> had a site at rootshell.be, but their server crashed a while ago, and I didn't bother to apply for a new account
[13:10:16] <RikusW> the give free shell access for open source developers
[13:10:32] <ferdna> looks nice!
[13:10:47] <RikusW> thanks
[13:11:34] <RikusW> Started out writing a GUI for that board, it ended up supporting all atmel programmers....
[13:11:48] <RikusW> except avrone and jtag3....
[13:11:55] <karlp> RikusW: I feel your pain
[13:12:05] <karlp> who were you shipping from?
[13:12:11] <RikusW> RS
[13:12:17] <karlp> digikey won't ship 802.15.4 to me here in iceland, but mouser does
[13:12:21] <karlp> I haven't tried xmegas
[13:12:27] <RikusW> they cant get a xmega export license...
[13:12:48] <karlp> I thought the DOJ had rescinded most of the encryuption export restrictions anyway
[13:12:55] <RikusW> why not ?
[13:13:13] <karlp> what, why not try xmegas?
[13:13:45] <RikusW> why wont digikey ship 802.15.4 ?
[13:13:54] <RikusW> ironically that same encryption can be done in firmware....
[13:14:34] <karlp> because the US _used_ to have export restrictions on 128bit aes
[13:14:56] <karlp> digikey's answer is, "don't care, not updating any of our internal paperwork"
[13:15:02] <Steffanx> I give up RikusW
[13:15:22] <RikusW> Steffanx: tried on kubuntu too ?
[13:15:31] <Steffanx> Nope
[13:16:07] <Steffanx> It's upgrading so i can't install qt
[13:16:09] <Steffanx> -dev
[13:24:14] <RikusW> Steffanx: maybe I should add a Rtk GUI too.... only problem is there is bugs in the layouts and I havent even implemented comboboxes yet ....
[13:25:09] <RikusW> Rtk use either GDI or X
[13:28:43] <vectory> error: usb.h: file not found
[13:28:54] <vectory> i thought i had usblib installed
[13:29:00] <TwisteR> any thoughts on my question about pelco-d?
[13:29:12] <RikusW> you need the dev files too...
[13:29:27] <RikusW> usblib-dev package or something similar
[13:29:53] <RikusW> vectory: using debian ?
[13:30:16] <vectory> kinda, ubuntu
[13:30:41] <vectory> do i want libusb-dev or libusb-1.0-0-dev?
[13:30:59] <Steffanx> I thnk the first one
[13:31:04] <RikusW> not 1
[13:31:07] <Steffanx> I had the same problem.. which one to install
[13:31:12] <RikusW> I used 0.1.12
[13:31:13] <Steffanx> So i now install the first one
[13:34:12] <vectory> seems to compule fine
[13:36:40] <RikusW> vectory: and does it run ?
[13:36:56] <RikusW> ./RavrProgQt ?
[13:38:34] <vectory> you mean RavrProgQt/RavrProgQt?
[13:39:07] <vectory> ./RavrProgQt: error while loading shared libraries: libRavrProg.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[13:39:31] <RikusW> ah
[13:39:36] <RikusW> you need to link it
[13:39:40] <RikusW> see the email
[13:39:49] <RikusW> make a symlink in /usr/lib
[13:40:06] <vectory> i was lazy and thought i could go without rtfm
[13:40:14] <RikusW> that is the easiest solution so far
[13:40:54] <ferdna> RikusW, i just ordered that developer
[13:41:11] <vectory> need to edit a makefile for static linking?
[13:41:36] <ferdna> for a total of 9.94 dllrs
[13:41:45] <ferdna> and they don't know how much shipping will be.
[13:41:49] <RikusW> vectory: just make the link
[13:41:55] <RikusW> cd /usr/lib
[13:42:08] <RikusW> and the command in the email more or less
[13:45:01] <RikusW> vectory: and you'll need to sudo ofcourse... when doing ln -s
[13:45:07] <vectory> it works
[13:45:13] <RikusW> nice :)
[13:45:18] <vectory> :D
[13:45:32] <RikusW> try connecting to U2S ?
[13:45:39] <vectory> but, synaptic doesnt show usblib-dev installed, although i did install it, using apt-ge
[13:45:42] <vectory> +t
[13:45:48] <vectory> that bothers me
[13:46:06] <RikusW> you'll have to click refresh when connecting U2S after starting the app
[13:46:57] <RikusW> vectory: I'm not sure if flash writing works... reading flash does work...
[13:52:24] <RikusW> vectory: got it working with U2S ?
[13:52:39] <vectory> still working out whats wrong with synaptic
[13:52:55] <vectory> and watching psych ._.
[13:53:25] <RikusW> if it compiled libRavrProg its is installed...
[13:57:08] <vectory> RikusW: thats whats bugging me
[13:57:23] <vectory> it should show, but doesnt
[15:50:24] <devilsadvocate> 'lo
[15:52:20] <RikusW> hi
[15:52:21] <tobbor> RikusW! like, totally tell us about the project!
[16:21:34] <wrongle> I've been using PWM, but I'm not following how to just set a constant level for my output
[16:22:20] <Casper> constant level?
[16:23:21] <Jan-> hihi avrinos :)
[16:23:24] <Casper> o/ Jan-
[16:23:30] <Jan-> hehe
[16:23:35] <Jan-> hello again friendly ghost :)
[16:29:51] <wrongle> so i have pin PB5 on an atmega328p, I'm trying to use PWM to keep a constant lower lighting on my LED
[16:30:06] <wrongle> all PWM examples i see user a timer to keep the time going up … down
[16:30:10] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: what do you mean by 'using PWM'
[16:30:27] <wrongle> PWM is what i need to use for moderating my output level right?
[16:30:45] <wrongle> so i can flip the bits and light my pin up / or off .. PORTB ^= (1 << 5);
[16:30:53] <devilsadvocate> 'constant' would not be the word i'd choose, but more or less yes
[16:30:58] <wrongle> but looking to set a specific level based on the battery power
[16:31:09] <wrongle> any clues? i've read the data sheet, but new to avr?
[16:32:04] <devilsadvocate> wrongle:
http://www.eetimes.com/discussion/beginner-s-corner/4023833/Introduction-to-Pulse-Width-Modulation
[16:32:33] <wrongle> reading now, thx.
[16:40:33] <wrongle> devilsadvocate: ok, so ill have to rephrase now then ...
[16:40:49] <wrongle> how would i be able to keep PB5 on my atmega328 at a 10% load? :P
[16:40:56] <wrongle> or say 20%
[16:41:39] <devilsadvocate> wrongle:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=68302&start=all&postdays=0&postorder=asc
[16:41:45] <devilsadvocate> embrace the power of google
[16:42:21] <Tom_itx> oh the horror...
[16:42:45] <wrongle> let me paste some example code ...
[16:42:47] <devilsadvocate> the short version would be to use one of the timers in fast PWM mode and use the OCR to set the dutycycle
[16:43:01] * Jan- is quite scared of you people
[16:43:17] <wrongle> so i have a fade up/down with pd5 and 6.
http://pastebin.com/UJ7zAbQ2
[16:43:44] <devilsadvocate> Jan-: you need to be thick skinned
[16:43:56] <devilsadvocate> sticks and stones and what not
[16:44:28] <wrongle> however … I'm now trying to do pb5, so i edited DDRB |= (1 << 5);
[16:44:53] <Jan-> It's not so much thick skinned
[16:45:03] <Casper> wrongle: PWM mandatory use a timer
[16:45:07] <Jan-> more "scared of jargon"
[16:45:25] <wrongle> i am using a timer? Casper
[16:45:32] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: for whatever reason pastebin isnt opening for me, but you shouldnt have to be touching DDRB more than once (when you set it to output)
[16:45:46] <wrongle> I'm just setting it once
[16:45:59] <wrongle> pastebin should be fine ..
http://pastebin.com/UJ7zAbQ2
[16:46:01] <devilsadvocate> Jan-: jargon is basically stuff which you can put into google
[16:46:05] <wrongle> just hitting it once.
[16:46:24] <Casper> for PWM, you set up a timer, then tell the avr to turn high/low at a certain timer value, and low/high at the timer overflow or at MAX value
[16:47:25] <Tom_itx> what about bidirectional pwm?
[16:47:44] <devilsadvocate> Tom_itx: what about bidirectional pwm?
[16:48:06] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[16:48:11] <Tom_itx> just figured i'd ask
[16:49:21] <Tom_itx> what direction does unidirectional pwm flow?
[16:49:37] <devilsadvocate> if you mean both 'reading' and 'writing' a pwm pin, then the level of skill you'd need would be considerably higher than the original question suggests
[16:49:58] <jd_ce> dean around?
[16:50:09] <Tom_itx> don't see him do you?
[16:50:28] <jd_ce> no but I dont know if he changed nick
[16:50:34] <Tom_itx> not dean
[16:51:12] <orated_> Hi! While trying to send hex file to avr chip I used cra.hex instead of Cra.hex in the command using avrdude. The original file is Cra.hex. I got some errors like - error: programm enable: target doesn't answer. 1 initialization failed, rc=-1 Double check connections. Can it be due cra.hex instead of Cra.hex in command?
[16:51:17] <Steffanx> You can always try the mailing list jd_ce ..
[16:51:38] <jd_ce> thanks for the suggestions Steffanx
[16:51:39] <Tom_itx> 1 initialization failed, rc=-1
[16:51:44] <Tom_itx> means it can't see the chip
[16:52:09] <Tom_itx> jd_ce, or twitter him
[16:52:17] <Steffanx> Or that
[16:52:40] <wrongle> so here is where I'm at -
http://pastebin.com/5dtpi6HU
[16:52:49] <wrongle> not sure what to put to check my timer?
[16:54:02] <Jan-> if I ask what a PD5 is, will someone laugh at ,e :/
[16:54:14] <Tom_itx> PORT D pin 5
[16:54:20] <Tom_itx> and yes
[16:54:42] * Jan- sobs
[16:54:46] <Tom_itx> it's also defined in the header file as such
[16:54:48] * Jan- makes Big Sad Eyes
[16:54:49] <aarobc> Is it possible to compile the arduino bootloader with avr studio 5 ?
[16:55:10] <Tom_itx> i would hope so
[16:56:45] <orated_> Tom_itx: Ok, I checked the connection and rthe hex got transferred. I got a warning in between - avrdude: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update. ...
[16:56:46] * Jan- teaches her computer how to say "tom_itx"
[16:58:45] <orated> Tom_itx: Is that warning serious?
[16:59:31] <Tom_itx> pretty serious if it can't communicate with the chip
[17:00:07] <orated> No it could send the file, probably the post I typed missed when my connection dropped
[17:00:19] <orated> I checked the connection and rthe hex got transferred. I got a warning in between - avrdude: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update. ...
[17:01:28] <Tom_itx> how do you know the file got transferred?
[17:01:32] <wrongle> Tom_itx: any idea on what I'm doing wrong with my PWM? no errors just nothing …
http://pastebin.com/5dtpi6HU
[17:01:53] <Tom_itx> my pc ignores pastebin for some reason
[17:01:54] * karlp grins
[17:02:15] <Tom_itx> one guess was did you init the timer?
[17:02:39] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: do you have an oscilloscope?
[17:03:14] <wrongle> no. I'm just trying to send output to an led i dont have an oscilliscope
[17:03:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_pwm_index.php
[17:03:38] <Tom_itx> compare what you did with that
[17:03:41] <wrongle> Tom_itx: this is my code in ym main TCCR0A = (0 << WGM01) | (1 << WGM00) | (1 << CS00); OCR0A = 0xC0; DDRB |= (1 << 5);
[17:04:34] <orated> Tom_itx: avrdude. Well, could read fuses with the help of terminal. Does that confirm that its communicating?
[17:04:55] <Tom_itx> it's a good indicator
[17:05:36] <orated> So what should I do about this warnng : cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update - which I got while sending hex?
[17:06:24] <wrongle> Tom_itx: i see that code … but not sure i follow? i have much smaller code to do the same thing on those p[orts ...
[17:06:27] <karlp> don't try and set the sck period?
[17:06:30] <wrongle> I'm just trying to maintain my pu lse
[17:07:50] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: that sounds ok. you should confirm that with the datasheet, of course
[17:08:32] <wrongle> well .. there should be something in my while correct?
[17:09:15] <devilsadvocate> no, the PWM once set doesnt need anything
[17:09:32] <devilsadvocate> how do you know it isnt working?
[17:09:38] <devilsadvocate> and which AVR is this?
[17:09:47] <Tom_itx> is the led on?
[17:09:49] <wrongle> atmega328p
[17:10:01] <wrongle> well my led is not lighted?
[17:10:12] <wrongle> it works when i upload a blink program etc everything is fine
[17:12:45] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: check your COM...
[17:12:52] <wrongle> ?>
[17:12:56] <devilsadvocate> behaviour on compare match
[17:13:24] <devilsadvocate> compare output mode, i think it is
[17:13:41] <wrongle> sorry not following ...
[17:14:10] <devilsadvocate> page 106 in the datasheet
[17:15:53] * Tom_itx goes for some r & r for a bit
[17:17:53] <wrongle> read it .. now following i guess?
[17:18:41] <devilsadvocate> now or not?
[17:19:52] <wrongle> not sorry*
[17:20:44] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: you need to connect the PWM output to the PIN
[17:20:53] <Tom_itx> why is WGM01 0
[17:21:04] <devilsadvocate> look through the register description in the datasheet, and check your register settings
[17:21:07] <Tom_itx> 1 = fast pwm iirc
[17:21:32] <devilsadvocate> wrongle: and (0 << WGM01) has no real effect
[17:21:52] <devilsadvocate> so if you intended it to be 1, then it needs to be 1<<...
[17:22:39] <aarobc> How do I compile a .c file that has a makefile with avrdude?
[17:22:46] <karlp> "make"
[17:22:50] <devilsadvocate> which platform?
[17:23:04] <Tom_itx> aarobc i use pn and it's on the menu
[17:23:07] <wrongle> i fixed that, still no dice?
[17:23:17] <wrongle> how do i connect the pwm output to the pin??
[17:23:22] <Tom_itx> wrongle, go thru the registers and know what you are setting
[17:23:36] <Tom_itx> follow my example
[17:23:57] <aarobc> Tom_itx: what is pn, do you use avr sdudio? is it possible to use avr studio?
[17:24:08] <Tom_itx> programmers notepad
[17:24:18] <Tom_itx> you can use studio
[17:24:25] <Tom_itx> you specify an external makefile
[17:24:26] <aarobc> Tom_itx: avr studio 5?
[17:24:34] <Tom_itx> fack as5
[17:24:39] <Tom_itx> in the arse
[17:24:43] <Tom_itx> use 4
[17:24:46] <Tom_itx> or i won't help you
[17:24:49] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:24:54] <aarobc> Tom_itx: I can't get avr studio 4 to install
[17:25:12] <Tom_itx> why not?
[17:25:21] <aarobc> it just hangs there....
[17:25:34] <Tom_itx> i'd think you would have more problems getting 5 installed
[17:25:52] <aarobc> I've left it for hours before, and still no luck. this is on a decently powerfull machine.
[17:26:08] <Tom_itx> you got a bad copy of it?
[17:26:27] <aarobc> Tom_itx: possibly, but I tried a couple different downloads
[17:26:30] <Tom_itx> i may have it on my site
[17:27:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/studio/
[17:27:05] <aarobc> I can just download and install programmers notepad and see if I can get it tow rok
[17:27:14] <aarobc> that works too
[17:27:41] <aarobc> Tom_itx: much thanks
[17:27:44] <Tom_itx> if it's slow i'll reset the router
[17:27:57] <Tom_itx> i need a new router
[17:28:07] <aarobc> Tom_itx: What kind are you using?
[17:28:31] <Tom_itx> dlink i think, hell i dunno really
[17:29:03] <aarobc> Oh, sometimes you can flash custom firmware like tomato, and it'll improve preformance significantly
[17:29:28] <Tom_itx> i could but haven't
[17:29:35] <Tom_itx> i was looking at a buffalo maybe
[17:29:48] <Tom_itx> low on the priority list really
[17:30:11] <aarobc> what's your upstream bandwidth? do you have it limited?
[17:30:46] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it's slower than down but it should move right along
[17:31:20] <Tom_itx> cancel it and i'll go reset it
[17:31:21] <Tom_itx> brb
[17:31:30] <aarobc> k. 49 mins eta and rising. going about 34 kBps
[17:37:17] <Tom_itx> zlog
[17:37:34] <Steffanx> Another tom-log?
[17:37:58] <Tom_itx> another name
[17:38:59] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/jy-mcu-3208-lattice-clock-ht1632c-driver-with-mcu-support-secondary-development-104306
[17:39:02] <Valen> looks interesting
[17:39:19] <Valen> you did
[17:39:24] <Tom_itx> CapnKernel, i was messin, i got it goin
[17:39:28] <Valen> i even helped you with a delay
[17:39:29] <Valen> ;-P
[17:40:09] <Tom_itx> i forgot what it was for
[17:40:20] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:40:25] <Tom_itx> no i didn't use that
[17:40:28] <Tom_itx> you know why?
[17:40:41] <Tom_itx> if you look close you'll figure it out
[17:41:59] <Steffanx> Looks nice Valen
[17:44:34] <Tom_itx> Valen, the code never used the password
[17:44:54] <Valen> heh
[17:45:03] <Tom_itx> so the delay was rather moot
[17:45:12] <Valen> somewhat
[17:45:13] <Tom_itx> but thanks very much
[17:54:34] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: Can I get a copy please? (It's GPL or LGPL right?)
[17:54:46] <CapnKernel> Is it on a website somewhere?
[17:54:51] <CapnKernel> Does it have an official home?
[17:55:10] <Tom_itx> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/logbot/commit/?id=972c09aefe6645653abb97e9ff6608e0e98a63e5
[17:55:25] <CapnKernel> Great, thanks
[17:56:46] <CapnKernel> Looks like it was used in a channel called "botwar" prior to "emc" :-)
[18:03:58] <Jan-> We need someone else called LieutenantDaemon :)
[18:05:05] <Casper> :D
[18:06:18] <LieutenantDaemon> will that work?
[18:06:20] <Jan-> It'd work better on windows
[18:06:49] <Jan-> there we can have MasterSergeantDriver
[18:08:23] <LieutenantDaemon> you've lost me
[18:08:50] <GeneralGhost> hmmm that dosen'T sound good :/
[18:09:04] <karlp> Casper is the _friendly_ ghost!
[18:09:19] <Casper> currently the kinda sad ghost
[18:09:35] <Casper> I got a small update on grand father's condition
[18:10:02] <Casper> he's on intravenous morphine and sleep all the time
[18:10:17] <Casper> they talk in double digit hours
[18:10:23] <Jan-> awman
[18:10:25] <Valen> :-<
[18:10:26] * Jan- gives Casper a big hug
[18:10:43] <Valen> i was going to do that but figured it'd be too fruity ;->
[18:11:02] <Jan-> It's short for Janine.
[18:11:06] <Jan-> :)
[18:11:31] <karlp> it's the interwebnet, you can do anything!
[18:11:35] <Valen> thats ok then
[18:11:48] <Jan-> Valen is that a babylon 5 reference
[18:11:49] <Steffanx> Sure karlp ?
[18:11:58] <karlp> Steffanx: yeah, pretty sure
[18:12:01] <Steffanx> ok ok
[18:12:01] <Valen> also wth is a female doing a) in #avr b) on the irc c) on the interweb ;-P
[18:12:05] <karlp> I can fly!
[18:12:07] <Valen> Jan-: yeah ;->
[18:12:13] <Graxe> heh
[18:12:17] <Jan-> Valen: polish that head bone
[18:12:29] <Valen> gotsta make it shiny
[18:12:38] <Casper> Valen: C... easy: facebook...
[18:12:48] <Graxe> \o/ misogyny
[18:13:08] <Casper> B)... hmmm cybersex?
[18:13:25] <Casper> A)... that... can't explain :D
[18:16:08] <Steffanx> hmpf
[18:28:03] <Jan-> Feh. do you guys know what I mean by "man flu"
[18:29:00] <Graxe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_flu
[18:29:06] <Graxe> Wikipedia likes to answer things.
[18:29:53] <Jan-> My partner Phil has it
[18:29:59] <Jan-> this makes me a... nurse?
[18:30:02] <Jan-> waitress?
[18:30:53] <Casper> yup a nurse
[18:30:59] * Jan- mutters
[18:31:16] <Graxe> Jan-: congrats?
[18:31:20] * Casper thinks about making a robotic whip for phil :D
[18:31:48] <Steffanx> Dr. Phil?
[18:32:20] <Graxe> Steffanx: I think that would make Jan-, Oprah.
[18:32:29] <Steffanx> Hehe
[18:32:43] <Jan-> Oprah?!?!
[18:32:49] * Jan- runs around in circles, waving her arms
[18:33:00] <Graxe> Can I have a new car?
[18:33:07] <Valen> i reckon Jan- is a doctor if she is treating a serious case of manflu
[18:39:08] <Jan-> I am not!
[18:42:24] <Jan-> anyway manflu is by definition not serious :(
[18:42:33] <Valen> LIAR!
[18:45:09] <Jan-> quiet you
[18:45:12] <Jan-> minbari don't get colds
[18:45:45] <Valen> no but this one gets drunk ;->
[18:45:58] <Valen> and I just spent 4 hours solving a computer problem
[18:46:09] <Valen> to realise its stupid
[18:46:16] <Valen> damn file system was full
[18:47:09] <Steffanx> Haha
[18:52:55] <Landon> Valen: I'll trade you problems :P my last problem was some library needed on boot required a different version of glibc than installed >.>
[18:54:32] <Valen> at least that'd probably tell you something about it
[18:54:45] <Valen> i spose i'm kinda lucky i found it when i did
[18:54:55] <Valen> if it happend during business hours it would have sucked
[20:23:11] <inflex> mmm
[20:23:18] <inflex> wish I could make a tiny tiny logger
[20:25:18] <inflex> with a large external storage capacity
[20:25:22] <inflex> but not be insanely expensive
[20:25:49] <inflex> (the expense comes from having to buy the bridging chipfor things like microSD and FAT filesystem :(
[20:26:06] <Tom_itx> or hack your own
[20:29:07] <inflex> or do it the ugly way, make your chip behave like a HID and dump the data out like a keyboard
[20:30:32] <Jan-> I guess there's some way to connect a compactflash card or something like that to an AVR and be able to read it?
[20:31:21] <Jan-> Apropos of nothing, you understand...
[20:31:24] <inflex> the easy hack way for datastore for me is to just get something like a 512Kbyte EEPROM....
[20:31:33] <inflex> but then I'd have to do the serial-data-dump
[20:31:41] <inflex> and people are scared of that sort of thing
[20:32:33] <Jan-> is it a one-chip job to interface to an ide device
[20:32:34] <Jan-> or is that hard
[20:33:25] <Tom_itx> there are fees to pay if you diy
[20:33:34] <Tom_itx> so maybe the chip is not as costly
[20:33:40] <Jan-> fees for what
[20:33:51] <Tom_itx> SD
[20:34:01] <Jan-> surely not for compactflash
[20:34:04] <Jan-> that's just IDE
[20:34:16] <jd_ce> ata
[20:34:43] <Tom_itx> SD is mainstream
[20:36:10] <Jan-> what d'you mean
[20:36:12] <jd_ce> i can hook you up with a company that does fifo-to-sata or sas
[20:36:16] <jd_ce> but its not cheap
[20:36:23] <Tom_itx> https://www.sdcard.org/join/benefits/
[20:37:35] * inflex works out some data timing limits...
[20:37:42] <Jan-> Isn't the transfer rate on that sort of thing faster than AVRs are even clocked?
[20:38:45] <jd_ce> sure
[20:39:28] <inflex> well with a 512K eeprom, I can get 266 minutes of logging time with 20 sample/sec of 4-bytes
[20:40:25] <inflex> the real question though is if I can even store 80bytes/sec to EEPROM over the bus
[20:40:32] <inflex> (I'm sure it can ;-)
[20:40:59] <jd_ce> hah
[21:12:06] <thenightfly> I've searched the net on this topic, but can't find anything - I bought an AVR Dragon and, when plugged into AVR studio 5, the software tried to update the firmware, but crashes, leaving a bricked Dragon. What should be done?
[21:21:23] <Tom_itx> thenightfly, cry?
[21:22:11] <thenightfly> I'm past that, I had councelling
[21:22:37] <Tom_itx> you can't see it at all?
[21:22:43] <Tom_itx> what about in studio 4?
[21:23:31] <Tom_itx> it's not good if it fails during the update
[21:23:34] <Tom_itx> i'm afraid
[21:23:48] <Tom_itx> possibly email atmel tech support?
[21:23:54] <Tom_itx> i know as5 is buggy
[21:24:10] <thenightfly> I can see it, it even 'upgraded' the firmware to a lower version when I tried it in studio 4
[21:24:25] <thenightfly> It seemed ok, but I hooked it up to a device
[21:24:26] <Tom_itx> did that work?
[21:24:28] <rue_mohr> you bricked a dragon?
[21:24:42] <Tom_itx> as5 wants to update it when you hook it up rue
[21:24:43] <thenightfly> and I couldn't read/write the ISP bus frequency
[21:25:00] <thenightfly> So I figured something was wrong
[21:25:05] <Tom_itx> try and read the firmware ver from it
[21:25:21] <thenightfly> It does that fine in studio 4
[21:25:41] <thenightfly> In 5 it won't work, no my knowledge
[21:25:46] <thenightfly> *to
[21:26:02] <Tom_itx> but does it work ok in as4?
[21:26:31] <thenightfly> It can read the firmware ver fine
[21:26:54] <Tom_itx> can it see a target device?
[21:26:54] <thenightfly> Does it power the target device from ISP?
[21:27:05] <Tom_itx> no
[21:27:10] <thenightfly> If not, that *may* explain my problem
[21:27:14] <Tom_itx> you need to add that from the 5v on board
[21:27:22] <Tom_itx> it is not
[21:27:54] <thenightfly> Ok, my precious dragon may live on. It sounds like AS5 is just a bad idea for the moment
[21:28:10] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon3a.jpg
[21:28:12] <Tom_itx> see
[21:28:15] <Tom_itx> PWR
[21:29:04] <thenightfly> got it. so theoretically, had I been dumb enough not to power it, would that throw up an error when I tried to set the iso frequency?
[21:29:16] <uhsf> I want to start a project with the Atmega32u4. I'm thinking of ordering the breakout board from adafruit. It comes with a "Arduino Leonardo" bootloader. Do you think it's a good breakout board?
[21:29:50] <Tom_itx> uhsf, i like this one better:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[21:29:57] <Tom_itx> but i don't have any made up
[21:30:18] <Tom_itx> get a teensy? maybe
[21:30:43] <thenightfly> *isp
[21:31:05] <uhsf> could you tell me the advantages of your pcb or the teensy over the one from adafruit?
[21:31:27] <Tom_itx> it's mostly just for me
[21:31:33] <Tom_itx> i think they are quite similar
[21:32:17] <Tom_itx> not sure what their bootloader does different over the stock atmel one
[21:32:36] <uhsf> I would like to do it all from scratch with a 32u4 just for my simple needs but I not sure I would succeed.
[21:32:51] <Tom_itx> if you hang here you would
[21:33:27] <Tom_itx> hear of dean's usb project?
[21:33:31] <Tom_itx> lufa
[21:33:49] <uhsf> I would like to know just what it takes to get from a 32u4 to a usb port the simplest way possible.
[21:33:50] <Tom_itx> what do you want to do with it?
[21:33:58] <uhsf> yes i read about lufa
[21:33:59] <Tom_itx> LUFA
[21:34:21] <Tom_itx> won't get any simpler
[21:34:27] <jd_ce> word. thats what im working on
[21:34:37] <jd_ce> 32u4, lufa->fatfs
[21:34:50] <Tom_itx> and dean hangs out here if you get stuck
[21:37:28] <uhsf> I will try to make it from scratch with a 32u4 now that they're finally available.
[21:38:18] <Tom_itx> have board making experience?
[21:38:32] <uhsf> then my project would not depend on a specific manufactured breakout board and would be more flexible
[21:38:54] <Tom_itx> i think the breakout boards are basically the same
[21:39:30] <Tom_itx> and if you don't like their modded bootloader you can always get the original from atmel
[21:39:37] <Tom_itx> and reload it
[21:40:17] <Jan-> So...
[21:40:42] <Jan-> arduino is really just a wrapper for AVR with some sort of agreed-upon translation layer so the pin numbers are easy.
[21:40:46] <Jan-> Plus some libraries for basic stuff.
[21:41:09] <Jan-> OK quite a lot of libraries.
[21:41:35] <uhsf> I didn't want to use arduino.
[21:41:46] <Jan-> ok sure, I'm just thinking aloud
[21:41:58] <Tom_itx> cudos for you
[21:42:10] <Jan-> why cudos
[21:42:36] <Tom_itx> anyone willing to have a go at it without arduino gets one
[21:42:51] <Jan-> It would seem like arduino would eat a lot of performance
[21:43:07] <uhsf> it says lufa is written for the free avr-gcc compiler
[21:43:28] <ziph> Did a pack of newbies just wander in to the channel? :)
[21:43:39] <Jan-> I can go :/
[21:43:42] <uhsf> that's not what is used on the adafruit breakout board
[21:43:59] <Tom_itx> ziph it's like scool
[21:44:00] <ziph> No, stay, it'll keep you from that Arduino ghetto down the road. ;)
[21:44:01] <Tom_itx> schoo
[21:44:02] <Tom_itx> l
[21:44:12] <Tom_itx> some graduate and move on
[21:44:16] <Tom_itx> more come to fill the void
[21:44:41] <ziph> Doesn't that make us the creepy old guys hanging around school, Tom_itx? :)
[21:44:59] <Tom_itx> i'm a noob
[21:45:02] <Tom_itx> hush
[21:45:12] <ziph> Oh, me too.
[21:45:28] <ziph> Ok, time for a noob question.
[21:46:12] <ziph> How do I determine a ladder network for a transfer function with both poles and non-origin zeros?
[21:47:08] <Jan-> that's a scary question
[21:47:18] <ziph> The answer is even more scary.
[21:47:32] <ziph> And involves numerical polynomial factorisation.
[21:47:43] <Tom_itx> is that expensive math?
[21:47:44] * Jan- puts her fingers in her ears
[21:47:49] <Jan-> La la laaaa
[21:47:53] * Jan- can't hear you
[21:47:55] <ziph> Expensive? :)
[21:50:18] <uhsf> also, eventually I want to interface with bluetooth for my project. I want to order the RN-42 module even though I think it's not open source, it seems to be the best choice. Do you know a better bluetooth module to interface with a Atmega32u4?
[21:50:36] <Tom_itx> uhsf, dean is working on bluetooth right now
[21:50:52] <Tom_itx> maybe you should visit with him
[21:51:13] <Tom_itx> i think it's his school project
[21:51:14] <ziph> The LUFA author has written some stuff to work with Bluetooth USB adapters, but due to the rather complex nature of being a Bluetooth host it sounds like it might be a bit hacky.
[21:52:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/ExplorerBot.php
[21:53:11] <Jan-> you mean, drive a bluetooth USB device from an AVR?
[21:53:57] <ziph> Yeap.
[21:54:05] <Jan-> won't the AVR spend a lot of time doing USB stuff
[21:55:01] <Jan-> USB is complicated, no?
[21:55:12] <Tom_itx> bluetooth moreso
[21:55:25] <uhsf> I would not even need usb if it wasn't for programming. I want to make a bluetooth device only.
[21:55:43] <Jan-> buuut if it's a USB bluetooth device won't it have the bluetooth protocol built in>?
[21:55:45] <Jan-> or am I misunderstanding what's being proposed here?
[21:56:00] <Tom_itx> dean is writing both
[21:57:16] <uhsf> it's not mentionned on dean project page what bluetooth adapter he is using but it says ps3 controller somewhere
[21:57:17] <ziph> Jan-: Most of the Bluetooth protocol handling for those USB devices is handled by the PC.
[21:57:37] <uhsf> I think the RN-42 module is what is used in ps3 controllers
[21:57:55] <ziph> Jan-: The RN-42 however handles all of it on the device and just exposes an RS232 port.
[22:00:10] <Jan-> oh hm.
[22:00:25] <Jan-> see that's how I thought most bluetooth worked
[22:00:39] <Jan-> as far as the host device knows it's just a serial port
[22:01:22] <Jan-> so once you had USB, it'd just be a case of sending bytes... but isn't there an easier way to give an AVR bluetooth?
[22:04:08] <uhsf> also, do you know what would be the most simple way to transmit a wireless signal from an AVR?
[22:04:20] <aarobc> xbee
[22:04:34] <Jan-> I'm sure I've read about bluetooth and xbee modules
[22:04:42] <Jan-> are they I2C or something
[22:04:47] <aarobc> unless you mean wifi, and in that case, the wifly modules are pretty nice.
[22:04:48] <ziph> uhsf: You can get fairly simple sub-GHz data transceivers too.
[22:05:00] <uhsf> I mean only a single signal that could be received by a second similar AVR device.
[22:05:18] <uhsf> no protocol or standard or anything
[22:05:42] <Jan-> are there also 418MHz devices for simple stuff? like garage door controllers?
[22:05:49] <Jan-> tell me if I'm talking BS
[22:06:06] <ziph> uhsf: Yeah, the sub-GHz transceivers. :)
[22:06:06] <uhsf> just one simple low power wireless signal
[22:06:59] <Jan-> just a sort of "go" signal or whatever?
[22:07:07] <uhsf> yes
[22:07:22] <ziph> You can get them too, they use them in key fobs.
[22:07:24] <Jan-> that'd be a 418mhz job wouldn't it?
[22:07:55] <uhsf> i'll check all this, thanks
[22:08:45] <ziph> Depends where you are in the world.
[22:09:31] <Jan-> that too
[22:09:40] <Jan-> 2.4 is pretty universal isn't it?
[22:09:48] <ziph> Except in France. :)
[22:09:50] <Jan-> I thougt 418 was but I'm not sure
[22:09:55] <ziph> The band edges differ slightly.
[22:10:33] <ziph> I've never heard of 418 MHz being used for low power unlicenced, it certainly isn't available in this ITU region.
[22:10:43] <ziph> You aren't thinking of 433MHz are you?
[22:11:02] <Jan-> er possibly
[22:11:26] <uhsf> I prefer a frequency that would not interfere with other standards. I'm in Canada.
[22:11:30] <Jan-> nope it does seem like it's a UK thing
[22:11:43] <Jan-> it's garage door openers, things like lens controls in the film industry
[22:11:48] <Jan-> that kind of stuff, low rate telemetry
[22:12:09] <ziph> You might have trouble finding 418MHz transceivers though, unless you find one that covers 433 and is wide enough to hit 418 too.
[22:12:29] <Jan-> you can get 418 key fobs here
[22:12:42] <ziph> 433MHz is a European thing too.
[22:12:48] <Jan-> I know various places have various bits of their ISM band in various locations.
[22:13:04] <ziph> There's usually lots of little odd-ball unlicenced bands though, check the local regulations.
[22:13:33] <ziph> ISM is different from low power unlicenced, it is a subset.
[22:13:38] <Jan-> here:
http://www.futurlec.com/Radio-418MHZ.shtml
[22:16:11] <Jan-> there seems to be heaps of ways to do this sort of thing
[22:16:21] <ziph> Yeap.
[22:16:25] <ziph> The CC430's are nice.
[22:16:38] <Jan-> what's a cc430
[22:17:10] <ziph> An MSP430 with a sub-GHz transceiver built in.
[22:18:19] <Jan-> did anyone ever write code to receive SPDIF audio into an AVR?
[22:18:27] <Jan-> one of those RF devices talks about headphones
[22:18:29] <Jan-> which'd be cool
[22:19:16] <ziph> You'd probably want a CPLD or FPGA to deal with SPDIF nicely, and possibly a micro with I2S.
[22:19:31] <Jan-> sounds scary
[22:20:19] <Jan-> even just to transmit it?
[22:22:10] <Jan-> I assume an avr's D to A converter isn't really good enough for audio even if it was fast enough
[22:22:50] <ziph> You need to be able to clock it with minimal jitter.
[22:24:09] <Jan-> I'd expect it to be noisy
[22:24:17] <Jan-> and only 10 bit too
[22:25:20] <uhsf> I was thinking of using the msp430 also, but it's all different thing than avr, I still thing avr is better for my project
[22:26:49] <Jan-> OK I'm going to sleep
[22:27:46] <inflex> they're all good, just different
[22:28:00] <inflex> that said, the MSP430s are pretty cheap and delightfully lowpower
[22:28:18] <inflex> but I keep running into their 3.3V limit though, the AVRs are nice for handling up to 5.5~6V
[22:28:48] <ziph> Being 16 bit makes them much nicer. The instruction set is far more elegant too.
[22:29:10] <ziph> But the software is a pain.
[22:38:21] <inflex> yes, that's where I think Atmel went really well - they got their toolchain sorted out nicely
[22:38:54] <inflex> Iknow a lot of ppl bagged Atmel for not offering free samples like Microchip, but I consider their option to go with free toolchain was superior in the long run
[22:44:24] <ziph> Didn't they mostly have it sorted out for them? :)
[23:17:25] <inflex> thing is, they still assisted
[23:17:38] <inflex> and afaik they (Atmel) do contribute still to the development of avr-gcc right?
[23:18:03] <ziph> Yeah.
[23:18:20] <ziph> I still think a lot of it is due to religion though.
[23:18:38] <ziph> Analog Devices have done far more than Atmel with the Blackfin for instance.
[23:20:01] <inflex> accessibility helps a lot too
[23:20:10] <Tom_itx> religion?
[23:20:26] <ziph> Well, in that case TI DSP's are probably more popular
[23:20:35] <ziph> Tom_itx: Like with the Arduino. ;)
[23:20:43] <Tom_itx> that is a cult
[23:20:49] <Tom_itx> XXX
[23:23:43] <inflex> heh
[23:25:28] <ziph> With a third of the population of the UK, why doesn't Australia have any decent online stores? (except for NQRC ;)
[23:26:09] <Tom_itx> i hear that guy is a real arse
[23:26:10] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:27:11] <ziph> Oh, for fucks sake.
[23:27:22] <ziph> What's the best way to make money with an online store?
[23:27:35] <Tom_itx> you figure it out clue us in
[23:27:37] <ziph> Like this, apparently:
http://shop.abc.net.au/
[23:28:27] * ziph gives up and goes off to order a bunch of stuff from UK web stores.
[23:28:47] <inflex> ziph: the first is, don't open an online store
[23:29:03] <inflex> ziph: it's like in R/C shops... best way to get $1 million, is to start with $2 million and open an R/C store
[23:29:13] <ziph> :)
