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[00:08:15] <Valen> urgh insurance is expensive :-<
[00:09:10] <ziph> What kind?
[00:09:19] <Valen> car
[00:09:25] <Valen> ctp and 3rd party property
[00:09:39] <ziph> Move to a state with non-commercial CTP.
[00:10:19] <ziph> Registration and CTP in WA is $400/12 months.
[00:10:20] <Valen> was meant to be cheaper :-< i knew it wouldnt be
[00:10:43] <ziph> Yeah, the idea is a bit retarded.
[00:10:44] <Valen> $634.21 for CTP
[00:10:58] <Valen> rego is $313
[00:11:04] <ziph> Haw haw.
[00:11:10] <Valen> 3rd party is $330
[00:11:18] <ziph> Living in NSW makes you a cow to be milked.
[00:12:37] <ziph> $1000 fee per parking spot being one example.
[00:12:59] <CapnKernel> Our rego is well over $600 in Vic.
[00:13:02] <ziph> I'm guessing that it is more now.
[00:13:28] <ziph> They look at you as milking cows in Victoria as well.
[00:13:38] <ziph> Although not anywhere near as bad as Sydney.
[00:13:54] <CapnKernel> "milchkine"
[00:14:54] <ziph> $400 registration and CTP, and not a single toll road in the place.
[00:15:11] <CapnKernel> Can we hate you now?
[00:15:20] <ziph> And parking is free everywhere except the innermost parts of the CBD.
[00:15:42] <ziph> Oh, and we get a public holiday tomorrow. ;)
[00:15:48] <ziph> Not that it matters for me.
[00:16:04] <Valen> <racist> its probably all the damn asians on the roads gees
[00:16:38] * Valen lives in penrith, parking is free
[00:16:45] <inflex> rego here in QLD is $780 for a 6cyl
[00:16:47] <Valen> western sydney ftw?
[00:16:59] <Valen> thats about the same as mine all up inflex
[00:17:05] <Valen> ex 3rd party property
[00:17:13] <ziph> I'm not sure not paying for parking is anywhere near enough to make up for living in Penrith. ;)
[00:17:25] <Valen> the parking and bogans are both free
[00:17:29] <ziph> inflex: It CTP included?
[00:17:34] <inflex> ziph: yes
[00:17:48] <Valen> no pink slip though
[00:17:58] <Valen> or is that act
[00:18:03] <ziph> inflex: NSW makes you buy commercial CTP on top of rego and then prove it with what they call a "pink slip" before you can register.
[00:18:22] <Valen> pink slip is nothing to do with that
[00:18:31] <ziph> What do they call the CTP then?
[00:18:32] <Valen> its a "road worthy" like in vic
[00:18:34] <inflex> ziph: the CTP is part of the transport-dept invoice, though you can choose which agency to use
[00:18:49] <Valen> ctp is 3rd party medical cover i believe
[00:18:56] <Valen> pink slip is your car isnt a shit heap
[00:19:03] <Valen> rego is road taxes etc
[00:19:07] <ziph> I thought they called it pink slip? I remember hearing ads for it when driving in Sydney.
[00:19:16] <Valen> ctp is green slip
[00:19:23] <ziph> Ohh, green slip.
[00:19:25] <ziph> That's right.
[00:19:39] <ziph> We don't have pink slips either. :)
[00:20:23] <inflex> CTP just means if you're in an accident, the damage you cause is covered... but damage to your own car isn't.
[00:20:26] <ziph> Valen: Is the M4 free now?
[00:20:37] <inflex> You can boost up to TPP (Third Party Property)
[00:20:38] <Valen> inflex: CTP doesn't cover damage to other property
[00:20:40] <inflex> oh, sorry, yes
[00:20:44] <inflex> TPP does
[00:20:49] <Valen> m4 is free
[00:21:02] <ziph> TPP is mandatory in some places (not anywhere in Australia as far as I'm aware)
[00:21:04] <inflex> TPP is about another $120/yr
[00:21:04] <Valen> but they haven't fixed the road up through the tolls, its all wobbly still
[00:21:16] <Valen> my 3rd party was $330
[00:21:49] <ziph> Valen: It's a bit odd that you can go from Penrith to the CBD with zero tolls but if you come from the North or South you're looking up 3-5. :)
[00:22:05] <Valen> M7 is only 1
[00:22:14] <ziph> Valen: But not so odd when you look at electoral maps.
[00:22:18] <ziph> Which is the M7 again? Airport?
[00:22:25] <Valen> north south
[00:22:33] <ziph> That's per-Km though.
[00:22:37] <Valen> m5 is airpory
[00:22:42] <ziph> Ahh, that's right.
[00:23:01] <Valen> M4 was sposed to go to the city
[00:23:18] <ziph> Yeah, once they M4 hits Parramatta Road it really starts to suck.
[00:23:19] <Valen> but some state parlament guy got elected by promising to sell all the land that had been baught
[00:23:42] <inflex> oh kak, almost about to run out of wiring looms and Idon't have the $$$$ to get more
[00:23:43] <Valen> that would have connected it to the orbital
[00:24:06] * Valen pictures inflex steeling wire from peoples walls
[00:24:15] <ziph> You can pay $7.12 on the M7.
[00:24:30] <Valen> thats to bypass all of sydney pretty much
[00:24:37] <ziph> I think I figured out to do a loop of Sydney was about $30.
[00:24:45] <Valen> something like that
[00:24:52] <ziph> Then park in the city for $25/h. :)
[00:24:53] <Valen> would be 200km or so
[00:25:19] <Valen> cheaper than the petrol ;-P
[00:25:39] * ziph probably hasn't driven 200Km in the last two months.
[00:26:32] <inflex> Valen: is about $300 for another batch of looms.... about 1000 in total
[00:34:26] <skorket> could anyone point me to a good tutorial on using assembly for avr? I have an attiny13 under linux (ubuntu). I have avr-as installed but I'm not sure how to get started. Any help would be appreciated
[00:35:35] <inflex> skorket: T13 accepts C just fine btw
[00:35:36] <ziph> I'm guessing you're after something a bit gentler than reading the gas manual and AVR instruction set reference? :)
[00:35:42] <inflex> skorket: though the T10 otoh works more with asm
[00:37:30] <Landon> skorket: how much of a tutorial? how to write assembly or how to organize your assembly programs?
[00:37:47] <skorket> inflex, I know, and I'm perfectly happy to program in C, I'm just finding that my code is way bloated
[00:38:00] <skorket> ziph, I can program in assembly just fine and I'm happy to read a data sheet
[00:38:13] <Landon> http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/avr_en/index.html I've learned lots and lots from this site, lots of good examples too
[00:38:18] <skorket> ziph, but getting the tool chain set up so that I can actually compile I'm having a little trouble with
[00:38:59] <ziph> skorket: In that case, go through the GNU GAS manual and the AVR Assembler reference, and if you want to find how to do something quickly get GCC to dump a GAS assembler file instead of generating .o files.
[00:39:58] <ziph> inflex: Do any of the SOT23 AVR's work with C?
[00:40:39] <Valen> inflex: you cant DIY the looms cheaper?
[00:40:48] <inflex> ziph: well, I've heard that there's C support for the T10 now, but I'm not sure how good it is
[00:40:52] <inflex> Valen: no
[00:41:00] <inflex> Valen: hard to beat 30c/loom
[00:41:13] <Valen> probably cant buy the wire for that price?
[00:41:31] <inflex> the bigger problem really is the lack of cashflow
[00:41:33] <inflex> it's killing me
[00:41:40] <Valen> no fun that
[00:41:44] <Valen> credit?
[00:41:51] <inflex> skorket: there's plenty of asm tutes out there for AVRs
[00:42:13] <inflex> Valen: HAH... I just had to capitulate on 2 of my cards ($32k credit and $23k credit)
[00:42:26] <Valen> nasty :-<
[00:42:33] <inflex> yes,. very nasty
[00:44:05] <ziph> I just got offered $17,000 on a card.
[00:44:10] <inflex> sales were going very nicely... and then *bink* all stopped
[00:44:12] <inflex> ziph: deny it
[00:44:14] <edboogie2011> hey guys. does anybody know the correct name for the plastic or felt cushion usually found on the foot of an electronic enclosure? usually they are backed with a self adhesive attachment
[00:44:22] <inflex> ziph: okay, maybe you're better at managing your finances than I am
[00:44:23] <edboogie2011> anybody know what those things are called?
[00:44:26] <ziph> inflex: My philosophy is never to have a credit card that you can buy a car on. ;)
[00:44:35] <edboogie2011> and if anybody has recommendations on how to buy large QTYs of them
[00:44:35] <Valen> inflex: hobbyking
[00:44:44] <inflex> ziph: not that I spent mine on fancy stuff, but it was an incremental failure over time
[00:44:55] <inflex> Valen: yeah, they stripped a lot of my sales from me
[00:45:14] <ziph> inflex: The difference between you and me is that I also have nice regular consulting income that saves me from financial mismanagement.
[00:45:22] <inflex> ziph: *lol*
[00:45:25] <inflex> ziph: touche`
[00:46:06] * inflex _knows_ what he should/shouldn't do ... but actually living by those things is another story I've found.
[00:46:21] * Valen has a small IT support income
[00:46:32] <Valen> i need to get ~3 more customers on it and i'll be happy
[00:46:41] <ziph> Head hunting is the way to go.
[00:47:07] <ziph> Take 10% cut form each of your finds, find 10 people for companies, and you're set. ;)
[00:47:14] <inflex> ziph: does dickhead hunting count? because there's no shortage of them around here
[00:47:27] <ziph> Although since we have actual IT knowledge we aren't qualified to be head hunters.
[00:47:59] <ziph> inflex: I'm sure you could make a bit setting up e-commerce sites for people.
[00:48:10] <Valen> sales is the hard part
[00:48:13] <inflex> hate to be self-inflatory ... but being brilliantly creative is a major hinderance to being rich in a lot of situations
[00:48:32] <inflex> because your stupid passion for art/creativity overrides your sensibilities
[00:49:41] <inflex> ./.. also, I'm getting really aggro at all the loud cars driving past here
[00:49:42] <ziph> inflex: Electronics inventory software is another underserved market. :)
[00:49:43] <Valen> my problem is i want to make everything the "best"
[00:49:55] <inflex> Valen: thankfully I let go of that one a while ago
[00:50:09] <ziph> inflex: Put up a "We steal nice loud stereo systems. Don't advertise." sign out front. ;)
[00:50:16] <Valen> anyway i think its time for pie
[00:50:22] <inflex> ziph: I've got some major software projects here ... but inventory/tax/accounting software is just pure evil
[00:50:35] <inflex> ziph: oh, it's the exhausts on the cars/bikes
[00:50:58] <inflex> ziph: you see, we're on a rural bit of road and the speed goes from 60km/hr -> 80km/hr about 20m from our property...
[00:51:05] * Valen used to have a moderate exhaust on his car
[00:51:07] <inflex> and it's a long straight stretch up a slight rise
[00:51:18] <inflex> so all you hear all day are all the bogans dropping it a gear and lighting up the revs
[00:51:25] <Valen> was nice, quiet until you used the loud pedal
[00:51:45] <inflex> I've timed them to doing ~160km/hr here
[00:52:01] <Valen> had some rust and i got a new one sounds crap :-<
[00:52:02] <inflex> ( I know the distance, I know the markers)
[00:52:22] <inflex> I think, if hte police really want a good Christmas ball, they need to just park out here a day
[00:52:36] <Valen> redback sounds crap on a falcon btw
[00:52:42] <inflex> heh
[00:52:47] <Valen> get a lukey
[00:52:48] <ziph> inflex: Do they have speed cameras in your neck of the woods?
[00:52:49] <inflex> I've got to get rid of my falcon
[00:52:53] <inflex> ziph: not here
[00:53:06] <Valen> inflex: why?
[00:53:10] <inflex> ziph: in Townsville they do of course... occasionally they'll bring the 4x4 van out here
[00:53:18] <Valen> theres 3 of them within 3km of here
[00:53:20] <inflex> Valen: rego costs, fuel, falling apart
[00:53:26] <Valen> what is it?
[00:53:38] <inflex> Just a boring old '96
[00:53:47] <Valen> 99 XR6
[00:54:06] <inflex> turbo one?
[00:54:12] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/general/hotness_touched.jpg
[00:54:14] <Valen> nah
[00:54:24] <inflex> ah yes, I remember that design phase
[00:54:27] <ziph> inflex: Tried moving a CC to an interest free (for a year) one? :)
[00:54:29] <Valen> I like it
[00:54:33] <inflex> they were pushing htem in South Africa too as an "exotic car"
[00:54:35] <Valen> the regular Au sucks
[00:54:43] <Valen> but the XR looks good
[00:54:46] <inflex> ziph: I already did once, moved $10k to ANZ
[00:55:21] <inflex> ziph: really though, I just need to earn more, right now my income is more sparotic than ..... hangover poop
[00:55:41] <Valen> lol your groady
[00:55:49] <Valen> on that note its really time for pie
[00:55:54] <ziph> I changed one card down to $2000 because it was my Internet whore card and the bank went nuts sending me offers to put it up.
[00:56:04] <inflex> heheh
[00:56:10] * Valen has no credit
[00:56:13] * inflex moved his CBA one to 11%, so I washappy
[00:56:15] <Valen> debit card only
[00:56:18] <inflex> Valen: be thankful
[00:56:24] <Valen> i am lol
[00:56:35] <Valen> and i am so thankfull missus has a steady job
[00:56:38] <ziph> When they see you have a decent running balance they can't understand why you'd only have $2000 available credit with them.
[00:56:40] * inflex used his credit to pull him out of some bad situations in the past, but didn't clear them fast enough before the new bad came along
[00:56:44] <Valen> she is awesome that she puts up with me
[00:57:24] <inflex> btw, don't live in luxury here... hand-me-down car, living in inlaws house, busted old TV, couch falling apart etc etc, don't drink/smoke/dine-out
[00:57:48] <inflex> I just can't seem to hit the success button any more, where's 10 years ago I was making a killing!
[00:58:12] <skorket> hmm, I'm having trouble getting a tutorial that is applicable. Does anyone have just a 'hello world' example that they could point me to, with instructions on how to go from assembly to the .hex file that avrdude needs?
[00:58:17] <inflex> I do know one thing.... when you get married, you do lose a certain drive/spark/push.
[00:58:23] <ziph> inflex: It seems a bit odd the sales fell off a cliff.
[00:58:35] <inflex> ziph: vicious competition from China
[00:58:51] <ziph> inflex: One or two particular vendors?
[00:59:06] <inflex> ziph: there's also a lot of seasonal changes in the US (my biggest market) which tend to make the entire population shift their buying at about the same time
[00:59:22] <inflex> the strong AUD also decimated me
[00:59:26] <ziph> Oh, the US being your biggest market makes a bit more sense.
[00:59:37] <Valen> good radio used to be $1000 or so
[00:59:43] <inflex> Valen: you got that pie yet?
[00:59:53] <Valen> now a $26 spectrum knockoff does the same job
[00:59:57] <Valen> in the microwave
[01:00:02] <inflex> yep,
[01:00:09] <inflex> clones galore at insanely cheap prices
[01:00:31] <Valen> thats part of my reason behind doing "the best" china can't compete
[01:02:41] <ziph> Electronics Design is just an entry level job that we can afford to offshore, I guess. We can just all become brain surgeons and quants instead.
[01:03:11] <inflex> not sure that -design- is, manufacturing for sure, but design still requires a lot
[01:04:09] <ziph> Design will go along with the manufacturing.
[01:04:31] <ziph> After a few decades without anything resembling a factory you can hardly expect a country to have designers.
[01:07:58] <ziph> inflex: Ever considered doing assembly for other people?
[01:08:14] <inflex> ziph: hell no
[01:08:20] <ziph> inflex: Why not? :)
[01:08:20] <inflex> ziph: assembly is perhaps the biggest hurdle for me
[01:08:31] <inflex> ziph: it's the one thing that slows me up more than anything else
[01:09:44] <ziph> A friend of mine does small runs (hand pasted/placed) and does fairly well.
[01:10:12] <inflex> I just did ~2000 part placements.... ugh
[01:10:35] <ziph> He does the reflow/technical side but he's taught his wife to do the hand pasting/placing.
[01:11:08] <ziph> They were making six figures when they were working full time at it.
[01:12:48] <inflex> you see now, I would just invest in a 2nd hand PnP machine
[01:13:13] <ziph> Once you do that you're competing with the larger places.
[01:13:25] <ziph> They mainly did prototypes and small initial runs.
[01:13:41] <ziph> Where reels often weren't available.
[01:13:41] <inflex> well, as I said, it's the big thing I hate more than anything else.... maybe slightly less than wiring though
[01:13:53] <ziph> Yeah. :)
[01:14:17] <inflex> wiring I hate mostly because it's fiddly stuff that doesn't always bend/sit where you want
[01:14:20] <ziph> If the design side is what you like you might be better off picking up some hourly work at a small place. :)
[01:14:33] <inflex> anyhow, speaking of which - I need to go finish my batch of 50 boards
[01:20:08] <ziph> I love that Digi-Key is based in a small MN town with a population of 8,573.
[01:20:33] <ziph> In Australia as soon as you get two employees you have to move into the Melbourne CBD.
[01:27:19] <jacekowski> all they have is a big warehouse
[01:29:06] <ziph> You're lucky to find a petrol station in most population 8000 Australian towns. :)
[01:38:36] <Valen> mmm pie
[01:40:53] <edboogie2011> i hate ditikey
[01:40:56] <edboogie2011> digikey
[01:41:05] <edboogie2011> they charges the most
[01:41:06] <edboogie2011> out of all the electronics distributors
[01:41:11] <edboogie2011> and for what??
[01:41:24] <edboogie2011> i like future electronics..
[01:42:32] <Valen> for having pretty much everything in stock
[01:47:55] <ziph> I've found Digikey to be cheaper on a whole bunch of things.
[01:48:18] <Valen> shipping to .au usually sucks
[01:48:34] <ziph> $30 flat rate FedEx express sucks? :)
[01:50:39] <Valen> vs farnell $0 ;-P
[01:50:48] <Valen> they used to be $60US shipping
[01:50:50] <Valen> was sucky
[01:51:01] <ziph> They used to do cheap USPS though.
[01:51:12] <Valen> never saw that
[01:51:42] <ziph> Anyone who didn't just quit the channel use Future Electronics?
[01:52:03] <Valen> i may have
[01:52:10] <ziph> They ship to Australia?
[01:52:12] <Valen> no actually that was alltronics
[01:52:16] <Valen> nvm
[01:52:26] <ziph> You got confused with Altronics? :)
[01:52:51] <Valen> electronics companies should be banned from having "tronics" in their name
[01:53:20] <Valen> Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Net
[01:53:49] <ziph> Altronics is one of the rare exceptions; they actually have their head office in Perth. They must've got special dispensation from ASIC to both hire more than two people and also not be based in Melbourne or Sydney.
[02:19:51] <inflex> FINALLY
[02:19:53] <inflex> A sale
[02:20:02] <ziph> Of 10 LOM's? :)
[02:20:11] <inflex> Sadly not, I'd be estatic if that happened
[02:20:19] <inflex> 4 BAC-ESJ6 units, so a $150 order at least
[02:20:23] <inflex> I could live on that a day
[02:21:11] <ziph> Ever considered doing installation/use videos for YouTube?
[02:21:46] <inflex> I have in the past, actually did it off my own server - but then I sort of lost the enthusiasm/time
[02:22:03] <inflex> http://nqrc.com/?vp=PLD-BAC-ESJ6 <= this is what was just purchsed
[02:22:16] <inflex> I also just finished looming up 50 BAC-55 units... thank god
[02:22:24] <inflex> horrific how long it takes to do that
[02:22:38] <ziph> Did I mention
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/automotive-ics/smart-high-and-low-side-switches/profet%E2%84%A2-smart-high-side-switches/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab69e2d40357 to you?
[02:23:30] <ziph> They're nice highside switches with current sensing.
[02:23:40] <ziph> Cheap, too.
[02:23:57] <ziph> And they don't mind motors/reverse current.
[02:26:10] <inflex> I suppose cheap is relative
[02:26:16] <ziph> :)
[02:26:25] <ziph> What do the relays you use cost?
[02:26:54] <soul-d> what are you selling inflex :P
[02:27:16] <inflex> ziph: ermm... $1.38 or so
[02:27:49] <inflex> soul-d: lots of stuff
[02:27:51] <ziph> inflex: Ah, fair enough. These are $4 in 1's.
[02:28:07] <inflex> ziph: what about in 100's ?
[02:29:10] <ziph> $2.70ish.
[02:29:28] <ziph> They save you from having high-CMRR opamps on the current sense, too.
[02:30:19] <ziph> It's just ground referenced and you can put it straight into an ADC (possibly with a resister divider)
[02:31:56] <ziph> And to enable them you just pull a pin to ground.
[02:32:54] <soul-d> yeah i mean do you have a webshop?
[02:33:46] <ziph> This channel is sponsored by
http://nqrc.com/
[02:46:17] <ziph> Oh you've got to be kidding me.
[02:46:27] <ziph> Mentor Graphics have now bought CodeSourcery.
[02:46:31] <soul-d> mmm it is leaning towards a particular market i guess
[02:48:53] <inflex> O_o
[02:50:27] <Valen> well i think i worked out why my mums computer was "freezing"
[02:50:31] <Valen> called hybernate mum
[02:55:05] <doublebeta> LOLS.
[02:59:57] <theBear> lol
[03:01:11] <Valen> shipped it 500km to find that out
[03:10:34] <Valen> oh well its getting a format/reinstall whilst its here
[03:11:53] <ziph> Get it ready for another batch of Malware, eh? :)
[03:12:17] <Valen> I am tempted to install debian on it and call it a pre-release copy of windows 8
[03:17:58] <Valen> incredimail isn't in the repos i hope
[03:21:47] <theBear> hehe do it !
[03:25:48] <Valen> inflex: you think you got it tough
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/10/moroccan-bow-lathe.html
[03:26:27] <Valen> though i think the people saying he is doing it "with his feet" might not really get it
[03:30:38] <theBear> oooh i like it
[03:30:52] <theBear> i could do that
[03:30:57] * theBear is a wood lathe master
[03:31:24] <Valen> he is using one foot as a clamp on a tool rest
[03:31:34] <Valen> thats about all the foot work involved
[03:31:52] <theBear> i thought the other foot clamped the workpiece
[03:32:23] <Valen> yeah that too
[03:56:40] <Valen> anybody used a mlp16 package?
[04:00:06] <Valen> mlpq-16 rather
[04:05:01] <Tom_itx> nope
[04:10:21] <inflex> Valen: that's neat
[04:10:30] <inflex> Valen: reminds me of the old Singer sewing machines
[04:11:14] <inflex> Valen: that cut piece must be insanely sharp
[04:12:14] <inflex> love his collection of fireworks too
[04:22:14] <Valen> yeah, that is some chisel
[05:29:19] <ecraven> hello :) how do i best fix a pin to GND (so i can differentiate between two pcbs that run with the same atmega32u4). i need to know whether i'm running on the one or the other. i thought i'd just connect a pin to GND on one board, and to nothing on the other
[05:30:53] <karlp> "nothing" isn't a very good choice.
[05:31:49] <ecraven> i'd use the internal pull-up to get a high signal
[05:34:25] <ecraven> how do input pins work (in an analog circuit sense)? do they draw current? or just on signal changes?
[05:34:47] <CapnKernel> ecraven: hi
[05:35:00] <ecraven> hey :)
[05:35:18] <ecraven> the concrete chip is an atmega32u4 (on a teensy board)
[05:35:33] <CapnKernel> Unless you go to the trouble of turning on the internal pull-up, then if the pin is set up as an input, it's high-impedance. That means that for all intents and purposes, it can neither sink nor source current.
[05:37:14] <ecraven> great :) so i'll just wire it to GND on one board and to VCC on the other, and that should work without "wasting" any energy?
[05:37:23] <CapnKernel> Yes.
[05:37:37] <CapnKernel> Just don't set the pin mode to be an output. That would be v. bad.
[05:37:50] <CapnKernel> (poweron default for all IO pins is for them to be inputs.
[05:37:53] <ecraven> what is the default mode during powerup?
[05:37:57] <ecraven> ah, great
[05:40:29] <CapnKernel> ecraven: This is a good place for AVR-related questions.
[05:40:40] <CapnKernel> Are you planning on running LUFA on the Teensy?
[05:41:48] <ecraven> what's lufa :)
[05:42:26] <ecraven> ah, usb. yes, some sort of HID implementation
[05:42:32] <ecraven> the device is supposed to be a keyboard/mouse
[05:42:35] <CapnKernel> http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php
[05:42:55] <CapnKernel> Mr. LUFA hangs out here to answer all your LUFA questions :-)
[05:48:39] <abcminiuser> Mr LUFA is on the phone
[05:50:57] <Steffanx> Thanks for the info Mr. LUFA
[05:54:43] <CapnKernel> ecraven: abcminiuser is Mr. LUFA
[05:54:50] <CapnKernel> And how!
[06:01:47] <RikusW> anyone ever tried using a m169 for driving a led 7segment display instead of lcd ?
[06:02:11] <RikusW> or maybe thats a bad idea...
[06:03:35] <ecraven> i tried an atmega32u4 with a 4 element 7-segment display. worked ok from usb
[06:04:26] <ecraven> for a "normal" led (like those in keyboards for caps-lock etc.), a 220 ohm resistor is ok? just connect the output pin to the led, then the resistor, then gnd?
[06:04:41] <RikusW> I used 270 Ohm
[06:04:46] <RikusW> 5Vcc
[06:05:32] <RikusW> I was wondering if the m169's LCD controller could be used for driving leds...
[06:10:54] <RikusW> 5Euro for this display
http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R588572-92.jpg RS nr: 184-7715
[06:18:13] <abcminiuser> And I'm back
[06:18:52] <abcminiuser> Gah, Thesis writing is boring
[06:19:43] <karlp> only have to do it once :)
[06:20:00] <inflex> wb
[06:20:06] <inflex> abcminiuser: what's your thesis on?
[06:20:17] <abcminiuser> My embedded bluetooth stack
[06:23:13] <abcminiuser> inflex,
http://fourwalledcubicle.com/files/temp/Thesis.pdf
[06:23:21] <abcminiuser> Although I've only written a tiny amount so far
[06:23:35] <inflex> LaTeX ?
[06:23:45] <inflex> LyX even
[06:24:47] <abcminiuser> Yes, LaTeX
[06:24:50] <abcminiuser> I like it :)
[06:25:22] <inflex> yeah, use LyX here all the time
[06:28:09] <amee2k> mmh, how do you plot a variable (defined with .param) in ltspice?
[06:28:13] <karlp> huh, so, the datasheet says it can do a page write of 8 bytes, but I can only get 1..6 to work.
[06:28:18] <karlp> let's try 7...
[06:28:29] <RikusW> page write of eeprom ?
[06:28:39] <inflex> O_o
[06:28:53] <inflex> I use byte, word or -block-, but never a "page"
[06:28:53] <karlp> oh no, my bad.
[06:29:00] <karlp> yeah, page write eeprom
[06:29:11] <RikusW> from firmware ?
[06:29:15] <karlp> while (donebytes < 6)
[06:29:25] <karlp> missed extracting that to the "num_bytes" parameter :(
[06:29:26] <RikusW> and what avr ?
[06:29:34] <karlp> external i2c eeprom.
[06:29:38] <inflex> karlp: using the eeprom_write_ .... ?
[06:29:39] <karlp> nevermind, classic irc solution.
[06:29:41] <inflex> oooh, external
[06:29:49] <karlp> as soon as I asked the question, I found my problem
[06:29:52] <inflex> heh
[06:30:07] * karlp feels appropriately stupid
[06:30:16] <inflex> and we feel appropriately smug
[06:30:34] <amee2k> i'm doing an AC analysis and have a .step. now i want to examine some values calculated based on the stepped variable for each of my steps
[06:30:46] * karlp grins
[06:32:52] <inflex> mm... 201337 data points
[06:36:28] <inflex> ziph: results are looking good
[06:36:51] <inflex> ziph: very pleased with the tightness of the data
[06:47:36] <abcminiuser> "A small PCB Piezo speaker was added to the robot, in order to provide both audio
[06:47:37] <abcminiuser> feedback for important events (such as Bluetooth connections and disconnections) as
[06:47:37] <abcminiuser> well as to act as a miniature horn to attract the attention of any organic obstacles to
[06:47:37] <abcminiuser> encourage then to move away from the robot’s line of motion."
[06:48:01] <abcminiuser> Is that a fancy enough way of saying it's a horn to scare the crap out of my cat?
[06:50:59] <RikusW> heh
[06:51:48] <abcminiuser> Urgh, I don't write well when I'm tired
[06:51:53] <karlp> I'd go as far as too fancy :)
[06:52:54] <elektrinis> is there a chennel for pic?
[06:53:06] <karlp> who cares? ;)
[06:53:11] <abcminiuser> elektrinis, yes, #crapmicros
[06:53:18] <elektrinis> :)
[06:53:27] <Steffanx> elektrinis said the forbidden word :)
[06:53:32] <elektrinis> put your religion aside
[06:53:33] <abcminiuser> (But seriously, try #pic or #microchip)
[06:53:49] <elektrinis> :|
[06:54:19] <abcminiuser> elektrinis, ##pic according to my client
[06:54:45] <karlp> what's with the ## on some channels?
[06:54:56] <Steffanx> Non-official blablah
[06:55:24] <elektrinis> thanks
[06:55:42] <abcminiuser> Steffanx, really? I thought it meant "meta"?
[06:55:54] <abcminiuser> #avr certainly isn't Atmel endorsed...
[06:56:36] <Steffanx> I'm not sure how it exactly works, maybe they accept it sometimes?
[06:56:46] <karlp> "about groups" (ie. double hash/## namespace)
[06:56:52] <karlp> who the hell knows what that means
[06:57:00] <karlp> I'm not finding much on freenode.org
[06:57:04] <karlp> .net sorry
[06:57:07] <Steffanx> A primary channel is considered appropriate for a channel operated by a project (The Ubuntu project operates #ubuntu) or a group (The philadelphia linux users group operates #plug). In these examples, these groups have a valid claim to the channel name.
[06:57:19] <karlp> ah,
[06:57:20] <Steffanx> # = primary
[06:57:27] <karlp> where did you find that?
[06:57:32] <Steffanx> http://blog.freenode.net/2008/04/registering-a-channel-on-freenode/
[06:57:47] <Steffanx> http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#primarychannels and there
[06:57:51] <karlp> helpful, it's not on
http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
[06:57:59] <karlp> fine :)
[06:58:32] <ecraven> would you have a look at
http://www.nexoid.at/tmp/chordhand.zip (it includes gerber files and two pdfs). does this look ok? any obviously wrong decisions?
[06:59:11] <ziph> inflex: Now that you've solved that, time to do an RF LOM? :)
[07:00:40] <RikusW> elektrinis: /msg alis list *pic*
[07:00:44] <karlp> what is the LOM ?
[07:01:05] <Steffanx> Low ohm meter :)
[07:01:26] <karlp> ok, I'd seen it mentioned here the last few days, but hadn't caught on to what it was yet :)
[07:01:42] <Steffanx> me neither, until inflex told me want it meant :)
[07:02:12] <ziph> They're really useful, especially if you have 10 of them.
[07:03:30] <Steffanx> Yeah, sure
[07:17:53] <inflex> well, I've installed a dual 1206 10R 0.1% reference now
[07:18:11] <inflex> and it's immediately going to 10.00000 ~ 9999.99
[07:18:30] <inflex> I must say, the hot-air rework station really was useful this time
[07:19:02] <inflex> put a dab or two of paste on the 4-wire pads on the PCB, put the 1206 on top and within about 10 seconds it was reflowed, then I put another two dabs of solder on top of the first 1206 and put the second one on... worked great
[07:20:10] * inflex uploads pics
[07:21:25] <RikusW> whats the price of your special 0.1% resistors ?
[07:21:52] <inflex> RikusW: only about $1.50
[07:21:54] <RikusW> probably many times more than normal ?
[07:22:02] <inflex> http://dxp.me/i/lom99.jpg
[07:23:15] <inflex> RikusW: considering that I get 1%'s for 0.1c/pc, I suppose it's a lot more :)
[07:23:34] <inflex> still a lot cheaper than the 0.01% 4-wire reference I am using externally though
[07:23:44] <RikusW> 1500 times more expensive ;)
[07:23:56] <inflex> http://dxp.me/i/lom992.jpg <=- but this is what I love to see
[07:25:16] <karlp> what are you using this for?
[07:25:24] <karlp> or are you building them to sell to other people?
[07:25:27] <inflex> karlp: it's a product I'm selling them
[07:25:29] <karlp> (and what do they use them for?)
[07:26:32] <RikusW> inflex: selling for how much ?
[07:26:44] <inflex> finding dud connectors, wires, imbalanced phases
[07:26:47] <inflex> RikusW: $479
[07:26:53] <RikusW> usd ?
[07:27:00] <inflex> AUD
[07:27:05] <inflex> also has RS232 logging
[07:27:12] <inflex> ~4sps
[07:28:19] <inflex> While it's a "24 bit + 5 bit" ADC, realistically it's more like 22 bits, but the rest is still kept and used for antialiasing
[07:29:09] <ziph> inflex: What range of Z are they good for?
[07:29:17] <amee2k> is there a way to fake a non-polarized capacitor with electrolytics that does not need a negative bias voltage?
[07:29:53] <ziph> A reversed one in series.
[07:30:07] <ziph> Although I fail to see how that actually helps.
[07:30:10] <amee2k> or any bias voltage at all for that matter. my device is supposed to work without a power source
[07:30:25] <inflex> ziph: this is a DC level meter rather than an ESR type. Anyhow it's from 0 - 10R @ 10uohm resolution and then 10 - 100R at 100uohm
[07:30:57] <amee2k> ziph: two electrolytics back to back does help, if you can bias the midpoint with a resistor so they're always guaranteed to be used with correct polarization
[07:31:04] <ziph> inflex: Yeah, an RF one would go well beyond an ESR meter anyhow.
[07:31:36] <inflex> RikusW: only just started production, there's been 14 prototypes since the idea originally came to head
[07:31:44] <ziph> amee2k: Actually I mean in parallel.
[07:31:46] <inflex> RikusW: the last 4 have been the bench size one (which you just saw)
[07:31:59] <amee2k> for the capacitance i want, ceramic or foil caps are quite expensive and i don't really need any of their other advantages besides being nonpolar
[07:32:26] <amee2k> ziph: yeah, i don't see how that helps either :P
[07:32:38] <amee2k> because either way, one of them is always reverse biased
[07:32:44] <karlp> well, it seems to be a fairly important advantage right now :)
[07:34:00] <amee2k> well, it is, but thats about it. so if i can make other types work in a non polar way that'll be fine too
[07:34:16] <inflex> ziph: running a long logging sequence again for the newly installed reference resistors
[07:34:26] <inflex> ziph: thinking the dual 1206s should work nicer again
[07:35:34] <ziph> Actually it is in series.
[07:35:35] <inflex> ziph: if it goes come out nicely, then I'll hold off spinning a new set of boards
[07:35:50] <ziph> But that makes the DC value indeterminate. :)
[07:36:31] <ziph> inflex: You were going to switch to TO-220 ones?
[07:36:36] <amee2k> "dc value"?
[07:36:46] <inflex> ziph: yes, was considering it - but I might not need to
[07:37:00] <ziph> DC voltage
[07:37:30] <inflex> ziph: I've gone to keeping the current flowing through the system constantly, rather than only switching it on during the test - has helped settle the system a lot I think in terms of capacitance / inductance and thermal
[07:37:38] <amee2k> o.O
[07:37:47] <amee2k> or was that remark unrelated to my question?
[07:38:17] <ziph> inflex: Are there any competing models on the market?
[07:41:03] <RikusW> inflex: how much did you 16x2 lcd cost ?
[07:41:42] <Steffanx> how's ravrprog going RikusW ?
[07:42:38] <magnusol> how can I determine how much RAM is used for string constants in my program?
[07:42:42] <RikusW> Steffanx: still working on the flashing code
[07:42:47] <magnusol> (avr atmega328)
[07:43:05] <RikusW> Steffanx: still need to implement 0xFF skipping
[07:43:10] <ziph> magnusol: None if you do it right.
[07:43:11] <karlp> if you want for _just_ strings, you're going to have to count it youself fromt he map file
[07:43:20] <Steffanx> Can I help you with debugging it on os x RikusW ?
[07:43:22] <ziph> magnusol: Constant strings can be stored in flash.
[07:43:30] <RikusW> but I refactored so that 5 functions became 1... :)
[07:43:51] <magnusol> ziph, well, i'm using the _P() stuff right now because of portability (i run most of my hardware independent code on x86 aswell for testing purposes)
[07:44:03] <magnusol> ziph, im NOT using the _P() stuff even* :)
[07:44:15] <RikusW> 5 x 4 = 20 (flash + eeprom R+W) for stk + jtag.... so 20 to 4 functions
[07:44:16] <ziph> magnusol: You could #define your own wrappers for them.
[07:44:33] <ziph> magnusol: Then on the PC they #defines would do nothing.
[07:44:44] <RikusW> Steffanx: of course, will try to finish flash writing soon
[07:44:45] <ziph> magnusol: Or you could just write stubs on the PC that emulate libavr.
[07:44:57] <elektrinis> sorry for OT. anyone knows good C compiler for pic16f?
[07:44:57] <magnusol> i thought about that too, but still, if the current amount of RAM used for constant is small, i don't care
[07:45:07] <magnusol> i just want to measure it, to determine if i need to take action
[07:45:35] <ziph> magnusol: You can either count the symbols manually using obj-dump or the map file, or you could allocate all strings to a single section and then just look at the section size.
[07:46:07] <magnusol> ok, thanks
[07:46:30] <ziph> The problem is you'll still need to know the names of them all.
[07:47:01] <RikusW> elektrinis: sdcc
[07:47:11] <elektrinis> thanks
[07:54:15] <inflex> ziph: sure, there's a few other meters like it
[07:54:35] <inflex> ziph: some are already integrated like the Fluke and Agilent 5.5 and 6.5 digit bench meters
[07:55:05] <magnusol> ziph, i was looking at avr-nm --size-sort <myprog> .. are things like 00000005 d __compound_literal.0 anonymous strings?
[07:56:09] <inflex> http://au.element14.com/rhopoint/m210/low-resistance-meter/dp/109279
[07:56:55] <ziph> magnusol: Compound literals aren't strings.
[07:57:22] <ziph> magnusol: Well, not in the standard. Maybe GCC deals with them the same way.
[07:58:22] <magnusol> so, lets say i do something like printf("Hello world"), what symbol is assigned to Hello world string?
[07:59:01] <magnusol> this must be stored in flash under the .data section, which i guess then is read into RAM pre main() ?
[08:02:12] <ziph> Yeap, no idea what the symbol is though. If you do an assembly dump of the function using it you'll see the reference to it.
[08:04:39] <inflex> ziph: anyhow, that meter is about 2 orders of precision less than mine
[08:06:51] <ziph> inflex: Yours even look better.
[08:06:59] <ziph> Looks better.
[08:10:03] <inflex> and has RS232
[08:10:26] <inflex> can't really go too much higher because then I start running into the Agilent/Fluke bench meters
[08:10:36] <ziph> Higher price, or specs? :)
[08:11:08] <inflex> http://au.element14.com/fluke/rs43/lead-rs-232-2m-fluke-rs43/dp/1274098 <=- aaah, Fluke, high priced stuff hits hard sometimes
[08:11:30] <ziph> :)
[08:11:57] <ziph> Cisco console cables used to be more.
[08:12:44] <inflex> true
[08:12:58] <inflex> the Flukes start with similar specced LOM 4-wire in their meters at about $1200
[08:13:23] <ziph> How come you didn't do 4-wire?
[08:13:43] <ziph> Oh, you did.
[08:14:59] <inflex> the Fluke 8846A has the same spec, the 8845 has 100uohm
[08:15:47] <inflex> they're specced at 0.01% of measurement + 0.001% of range
[08:17:07] <inflex> which I think is pretty close to what I am too.
[08:17:21] <inflex> I might though go for more 0.025% of measurement + 0.0025% of range
[08:53:24] <ecraven> vjoin #kicad
[08:54:01] <Steffanx> vjoin failed
[08:55:15] <ecraven> :)
[09:18:18] <moe3> Hi
[09:18:38] <moe3> I have a little problem with changing ADMUX.
[09:19:41] <moe3> I have to ADC Inputs and some calculations to do. When setting ADMUX to one channel , it works
[09:20:13] <moe3> but when changing the ADMUX Channel it wont work anymore
[09:20:27] <Steffanx> You have some code?
[09:20:41] <moe3> Do I have to wait after changing it or where is the problem?
[09:27:19] <moe3> here it is
[09:27:39] <moe3> http://pastebin.com/S5XRTPFh
[09:27:56] <moe3> capure_1 and capture_2 are started in a ISR
[09:39:26] <moe3> Steffanx can you help me?
[09:42:48] <Steffanx> I don't see anything special, except for line 5 and 6 .. you make admux zero and after that you 'clear' something :P
[09:44:40] <moe3> yes line6 is too much
[09:44:59] <Steffanx> And perhaps its a good idea to always do a dummy read after you changed the channe
[09:45:00] <Steffanx> l
[09:45:34] <moe3> both adc conversion are done in the same isr at the same time (when both has to be done). May this be a problem?
[09:46:12] <moe3> for example. first i read channel0 in the isr , then channel2
[09:49:39] <Steffanx> afaik it's a 'good' thing to do a dummy read after you changed the channel.
[09:49:50] <Steffanx> Why you do it inside an interrupt?
[09:51:32] <Steffanx> Calling 'sei' inside your interrupt is probably not a good idea, now your interrupt can be interrupted
[09:56:37] <moe3> I will change that
[10:41:02] <ziph> Anyone use Arduino much?
[10:41:27] <specing> #arduino does
[10:42:56] <ziph> Yeah but my question is if the Arduino IDE pulls in avrlib or if they've replaced it with someone more minimalistic. ;)
[10:46:09] <specing> They have replaced it with something more gigantic
[10:46:24] <Travler2> jep
[10:46:42] <ziph> So you don't have printf, for example?
[10:47:19] <Travler2> printf won't do something
[10:47:26] <Travler2> (what u expect)
[10:47:30] <ziph> memcpy then.
[10:47:41] <ziph> (* Not a newbie)
[10:47:51] <Travler2> hmm better question
[10:48:42] <Travler2> if i would dev arduiono i would take the avrlib as a basic
[10:49:31] <Travler2> but if u aren't a newbie why do u want to use arduiono ?
[10:49:53] <ziph> I don't.
[10:50:04] <Travler2> okay
[10:50:29] <Steffanx> I'm pretty sure Arduino does have some avr-libc stuff
[10:50:31] <ziph> I'm abusing GCC in a similar way though and was curious.
[10:50:47] <Steffanx> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/Printf
[11:09:53] <ziph> Wooow.
[11:10:16] <ziph> The people in #arduino are experts at talking about things they aren't expert in with great conviction.
[11:12:42] <theBear> hehe
[11:12:53] <theBear> sounds like your average arduino fanatic <grin>
[11:21:22] <CapnKernel> inflex: Your LOM sure is a sexy beast!
[11:22:46] <ziph> CapnKernel: How many can he sell you?
[11:32:01] <Kevin`> ziph: oh man, it's painful (looking at the scrollback)
[11:34:31] <ziph> What arse hats. :)
[16:14:55] <moe3> hi
[16:15:40] <moe3> i have a float and want to save it as int, will int = float; save me the float rounded in int?
[16:15:57] <RikusW> with a compiler warning
[16:16:06] <RikusW> int = (int)float;
[16:16:11] <RikusW> cast it like that
[16:16:38] <moe3> oh thx.
[16:20:06] <ecraven> float bar = 3.1415; int foo = (int)bar;
[16:22:30] <Casper> be carefull
[16:22:34] <Casper> it do not round
[16:22:39] <Casper> it chop
[16:22:42] <Casper> 3.99 = 3
[16:28:40] <RikusW> seems m324a (719-3957) is cheaper at RS than m328... and it has more pins too
[16:29:25] <Jan-> hihi avrinos
[16:35:12] <moe3> how can i round?
[16:37:38] <RikusW> i = (int)roundf(f);
[16:37:52] <Jan-> Doesn't that take ages and ages on a device with no FPU?
[16:39:46] <RikusW> Steffanx: mailed you the new RavrProg
[16:40:09] <Steffanx> Yeah, i just read your email
[16:40:13] <Steffanx> I'll try it tomorrow
[16:41:32] * RikusW is also feeling kind of lazy right now...
[16:42:14] <RikusW> will test flash writing later....
[16:42:59] <RikusW> I'll be ordering 2 t10's and try to get abc's tpi mode working too
[16:43:16] <RikusW> maybe usbasp's tpi too
[16:44:56] <Jan-> I've been madly revising the code I want to use on an AVR to make it more efficient
[16:45:08] <Jan-> so I don't have to do multiplies and divides
[16:45:23] <Jan-> but if I wrote C code in which I wanted int a = 1 / 3; how would it actually do that?
[16:45:26] <Steffanx> Still working on the same project Jan- ?
[16:45:31] <RikusW> and use bit shifting instead ?
[16:46:00] <Jan-> Steffanx: Well, I haven't done anything on it for a, eh, year
[16:46:06] <Jan-> But now I have a real RS232 board :D
[16:46:10] <Jan-> So all should be well.
[16:47:15] <Jan-> I did work out how I could do most of it with bit shifts.
[16:48:01] <Jan-> I guess I need to talk to Tom_itx because I have his programmer and I need to get a development setup done on a plugboard
[16:55:42] <district> Jan-: in that particular case it'll be calculated at compile time
[16:56:10] <RikusW> constant folding..
[16:57:49] <Jan-> well OK, say it's not fixed
[16:58:02] <Jan-> int a = 1 / [output of A to D converter]
[16:58:34] <RikusW> might as well be int a = 0; :-P
[16:59:09] <district> Jan-: it'll link in code to calculate floating points
[17:02:16] <Jan-> Which will be slow.
[17:02:19] <Jan-> Very slow.
[17:02:33] * Jan- begins to regret the idea of doing DSP in an AVR
[17:03:15] <Jan-> Aaaanyway, I should probably get past the "actually being able to send code to the device" stage
[17:03:42] <RikusW> bootloader ?
[17:03:50] <Jan-> er, "breadboard and wires"
[17:03:53] <Jan-> fundamental are my problems :/
[17:04:04] <district> Jan-: you could do simple dsp
[17:04:04] <RikusW> which avr is that ?
[17:04:09] <Jan-> I'd have to check
[17:04:18] <Jan-> some DIL thing that goes at 20MHz
[17:04:32] <district> haha, that narrows it down!
[17:04:38] <Jan-> Ooh, does it?
[17:06:05] <Jan-> ATMEL 8-BIT MCROCNTRLR DIL-28RC ATMEGA168-20PU
[17:06:13] <Jan-> That
[17:06:17] <Jan-> Copied from invoice email.
[17:06:23] <district> ahhh. what they used in the old arduinos.
[17:06:41] <Jan-> I have two
[17:06:49] <Jan-> I assume accidentally destroying one is a near-inevitability
[17:06:59] <RikusW> with a bootloader you don't need a programmer anymore, only a serial port
[17:07:25] <Jan-> I have a programmer anyway
[17:07:45] <RikusW> bootloader is faster too
[17:07:47] <Jan-> I just bought these chips I assume they are blank-brained at the moment
[17:08:13] <district> yep
[17:11:15] <Jan-> *sigh*
[17:11:19] <Jan-> I'm a bit worried about this
[17:11:27] * Jan- shuffles uncertainly from foot to foot
[17:16:46] <Jan-> OK, so I have Tom_itx's USB programmer, two ATMEGA168s, an RS232 level shifter thing so I can have it talk back to the PC
[17:16:54] <Jan-> I have a breadboard, a bench power supply, and some wire links for the board
[17:17:04] <Jan-> and an RS232 card for my PC.
[17:17:10] <Jan-> do I need anything else
[17:17:16] <Jan-> oh software. I do need software.
[17:18:07] <district> usually helps!
[17:18:16] <Jan-> quitit you
[17:18:23] <Jan-> I could send raw hex bytes down the usb port :)
[17:18:53] <Jan-> I also need to get Phil to plug all this stuff in for me
[17:23:35] <Steffanx> Dr. Phil? :P
[17:24:01] <Tom_itx> Dr Phil and Dr Ruth should do a show together
[17:24:44] <Jan-> Phil's my partner
[17:25:02] <Jan-> which I say not to sound gay, but because I'm 32 and "boyfriend" is a bit juvenile.
[17:26:37] <Jan-> Unfortunately, Phil has found another girl recently and they've been spending all their time together.
[17:26:43] <Jan-> Her name is "Deus Ex: Human Revolution"
[17:26:45] <Jan-> Bitch
[17:26:49] <mrfrenzy> if 32 is too old to have a boy/girlfriend I'll have to shoot myself
[17:27:09] <mrfrenzy> that would mean I'm only five years away from very old
[17:27:24] <Jan-> mrfrenzy: well, we've been together for nearly ten years, we need another term for long-term, live-in, life-partner people who aren't actually married.
[17:28:00] <mrfrenzy> in sweden we call it sambo
[17:28:21] <Jan-> oh
[17:28:32] <district> better half
[17:28:51] <Jan-> in the UK we call it long-term, live-in, carnal-sin boy toy.
[17:28:55] <district> although that's probably a britishism
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> In Denmark, Norway and Sweden, cohabitation is very common; roughly 50% of all children are born into families of unmarried couples, whereas the same figure for several other Western European countries is roughly 10%[citation needed]. Many couples decide to marry later.
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> so maybe "Cohabitant" is the English translation ;)
[17:30:45] <Jan-> I always thought Denmark, Norway and Sweden were awesome.
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> In the UK, 25%[citation needed]of children are now born to cohabiting parents.
[17:30:45] <Jan-> I'd move, but the language is...
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> maybe when you pass 40% you can invent a new word for it
[17:30:45] <Jan-> Maybe
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> biggest reason is we have a very secular society
[17:30:45] <Jan-> awesome
[17:30:45] <Jan-> how do I get immigration papers :/
[17:30:45] <mrfrenzy> so people see no need to go to church before moving in together
[17:31:00] <mrfrenzy> if you can get a job you will not have any problems with immigration ;)
[17:31:16] <Jan-> On the other hand: this is the country that invented surstromming.
[17:31:24] <mrfrenzy> and smorgasbord
[17:31:31] <Jan-> Is there any form of surstromming consumption requirement on citizenship?
[17:31:50] <mrfrenzy> only if you want to live in the very northern parts where average temperature is <0
[17:32:15] <Jan-> Well the weather is another problem.
[17:32:24] <Jan-> In the UK, if it gets below 10C, we think it's cold.
[17:32:36] <mrfrenzy> we have much less rain ;)
[17:32:46] <Jan-> in Sweden you don't start worrying until the nitrogen starts to condense out of the air :/
[17:32:48] <mrfrenzy> snow is actually much preferrable over rain
[17:32:49] <district> Jan-: the last two winters HAVE been cold though
[17:32:56] <district> and since we grind to a halt every time it snows a bit...
[17:33:04] <mrfrenzy> yes, the last years have had cold winters and warm summers
[17:33:06] <mrfrenzy> very nice
[17:33:19] <mrfrenzy> enjoy the summer, and then just stay indoors making electronics in the winter
[17:33:21] * Jan- pokes Tom_itx
[17:33:27] <Jan-> mrfrenzy: that's the plan!
[17:33:30] <district> mrfrenzy: sweden?
[17:33:34] <mrfrenzy> yes
[17:33:46] <district> i work with a swede. he always complains about the weather here!
[17:33:56] <mrfrenzy> he's in the wrong part then ;)
[17:34:24] <mrfrenzy> the last years the government has been all like "WHAT? there is SNOW in winter? maybe we should have prepared the rails and roads a little better"
[17:34:33] <Jan-> Hey, I could save bench space and run my AVR experiment from my CP!
[17:34:36] <mrfrenzy> it has not been like this for like 20 years
[17:34:51] <Jan-> can I use AVR Studio with Tom_itx's programmer, d'you think?
[17:35:14] <mrfrenzy> avr studio supports a lot of programmers, what has Tom_itx cloned?
[17:35:20] * Jan- doesn't know
[17:35:39] <RikusW> yes AVRISP mkII
[17:35:44] <Jan-> I think it's one of these:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[17:35:47] <district> i don't like avr studio
[17:35:53] <mrfrenzy> I do
[17:35:59] <district> i'd go as far as saying i HATE it :)
[17:36:09] <mrfrenzy> show me a better AVR IDE
[17:36:13] <district> eclipse
[17:36:22] <RikusW> AS4 is ok more or less, AS5 is bad news
[17:36:43] <district> is AS5 like the avr32 one?
[17:36:53] <mrfrenzy> eclipse has full support and syntax checking for all the avr libs? you can hit a single button to build and program your project?
[17:37:04] <district> mrfrenzy: there's a plugin
[17:37:11] <Jan-> so er
[17:37:14] <Jan-> is this a "yes"
[17:37:20] <district> mrfrenzy: but certainly all the syntax checking etc. since it's just c
[17:37:26] <district> Jan-: i'd say so
[17:37:33] <Jan-> I think I'd rather use assembly language.
[17:37:33] <district> he didn't invent his own prototocol afaik ;)
[17:37:41] <district> protocol
[17:38:43] <Jan-> OK there's a whole page on tomitx's site about it
[17:38:45] <Jan-> I think we're cool
[17:39:25] <district> panic over!
[17:39:32] <Jan-> who's panicking
[17:39:43] <Jan-> I just have to get SOMEONE to build it now :/
[17:43:12] <Tom_itx> it works with studio or avrdude
[17:44:21] <Jan-> sure I found your website
[17:44:27] * Jan- thinks Tom_itx is awesome
[17:45:08] <RikusW> district: AS5 is VS2010 based
[17:45:20] <Jan-> I guess if I have a 5V bench power supply I don't need the whole 7805 regulator setup
[17:45:25] <district> RikusW: huh. neat.
[17:45:35] <district> RikusW: in theory, anyway. VS on its own is lovely.
[17:45:49] <Tom_itx> a ton of overhead
[17:45:54] <Tom_itx> just for an ide
[17:45:58] <RikusW> but its still buggy and slow
[17:47:21] <Jan-> is there some way in C of specifying binary
[17:47:29] <Jan-> in javascript you can use 0b01010101 etc
[17:47:37] <district> you can do that if you're using gcc
[17:48:37] <Jan-> I assume that thnigs like DDRB and TCCR1B are what you get from io.h
[17:48:51] <district> yep
[17:48:59] <Jan-> mmkays
[17:49:08] * Jan- taps chin with exaggerated thoughtfulness
[17:52:12] * mrfrenzy thinks the stk500 is quite useful
[17:52:24] <Jan-> F_CPU?
[17:52:52] <mrfrenzy> frequency of your cpu
[17:53:09] <Jan-> 1000000UL?
[17:53:14] <Jan-> 10MHz?
[17:53:18] <district> 1mhz
[17:53:19] <Steffanx> It's used by the _delay_XX functions
[17:53:22] <Jan-> oh.
[17:54:31] <Casper> F_CPU is also used by some other stuff, like peter fleury's serial libs
[17:54:43] <Jan-> why on earth is everything named in this ludicrously abstruse fashion?
[17:54:48] <Jan-> UBRR0H is not a good variable name
[17:54:54] <Steffanx> Not?
[17:55:13] <Jan-> No. Not.
[17:55:17] <Steffanx> Why not?
[17:55:18] <RikusW> Baud Rate Register 0 High
[17:55:32] <RikusW> you'll get used to it ;)
[17:55:38] <district> yeah, probably want to glance over the avr datasheet ;)
[17:55:40] <Steffanx> +U(S)ART :P
[17:55:42] <mrfrenzy> it's all logical once you've read the datasheets
[17:55:44] <Casper> you have also UBRR0 directly
[17:55:52] <Jan-> But the datasheet is like 1000 pages
[17:55:53] <Jan-> :/
[17:55:57] <Steffanx> No, not 1000
[17:56:01] <mrfrenzy> what I usually do is look at some example for a similar micro
[17:56:03] <district> pfft
[17:56:07] <district> i've got a 3500 page data sheet
[17:56:08] <mrfrenzy> then ctrl+f in the datasheet for my micro
[17:56:13] <Casper> Jan-: the datasheet repeat itself in many places
[17:56:16] <mrfrenzy> on each var like UBBR0H etc
[17:56:25] <mrfrenzy> just read the required parts to setup that register
[17:56:26] <Steffanx> The one of the atmega168 is only 363
[17:56:29] <mrfrenzy> then you learn on the way
[17:56:36] <Steffanx> When you skip the less important info
[17:56:53] <Casper> don't get discouraged, the datasheet is big because they explain everything in detail
[17:57:11] <Casper> like they did a copy paste for the full basic port functions
[17:57:22] <Jan-> Casper, are you the *friendly* ghost?
[17:57:22] <Casper> so if you have 4 ports, you have 4 times the info
[17:57:29] <Casper> am I?
[17:57:46] <Casper> people keep telling me that, am I?
[17:57:46] <Steffanx> Just read 1 chapter of the datasheet instead of the news paper next week Jan- :P
[17:57:57] <Steffanx> Yes
[19:41:06] <vectory_> grummund: you posted the bicycle blink led, right?
[19:42:56] <vectory_> do you think that a circuit like that could be designed for more than 2 stages?
[19:43:23] <vectory_> does it work for 2 stages anyway?
[19:43:30] * inflex wakesup
[19:43:59] * vectory_ poures coffee into inflex
[19:46:59] <inflex> thanks
[19:52:53] <karlp> hmm, if the east coast is waking up, must be time for me to be in bed.
[19:52:58] <Casper> what do you mean by 2 stages?
[19:57:54] <vectory_> err, nvm
[19:58:49] <vectory_> thought it would be two banks of leds alternating, so i wondered if its possible to have more banks, and have one blink each stage
[19:59:03] <vectory_> but i guess his circuit was just flashing some leds on and off, all together
[20:01:09] <vectory_> http://i52.tinypic.com/263j677.png
[21:25:25] <Tom_itx> inflex
[21:38:37] <Casper> vectory_: who made that schematics? I see a newbie mistake there on such "complex" circuit
[21:49:35] <rue_mohr> Casper, ... what error do you see?
[21:51:02] <Casper> rue_mohr: insufisant battery voltage
[21:51:19] <rue_mohr> 4.5V
[21:51:26] <Casper> ǹo
[21:51:33] <rue_mohr> .5V/10R
[21:51:40] <Casper> 3x 1.25V with a 3V guaranted
[21:51:43] <rue_mohr> 50mA
[21:52:02] <rue_mohr> it'll just stop prematurely
[21:52:12] <Casper> with 2x 2V led = 4V, 0.7V drop in the npn that give 4.7V minimum
[21:52:24] <rue_mohr> .2V drop
[21:52:48] <rue_mohr> .7 is VBE
[21:53:02] <Casper> ok, let's say 0.2V, that's 4.2V minimum on a 3.75V maximum supply
[21:53:17] <rue_mohr> hahaha I used 1.5V ahahahahahahaha
[21:53:24] <rue_mohr> :)
[21:54:04] <Casper> the schem say NiMH
[21:54:11] <rue_mohr> yea
[21:54:14] <rue_mohr> I know
[21:54:52] <rue_mohr> well, look at it this way, its NOT overdriving the leds ;)
[21:57:42] <Casper> it's not even driving them!
[22:24:09] <inflex> Tom_itx: yes?
[22:24:28] <inflex> Tom_itx: was in the workshop... testing, heat-shrinking and packing 80 BAC units
[22:30:48] <Tom_itx> what's up?
[23:57:54] <inflex> oh, just been working my tush off
[23:58:03] <inflex> just about to go down town and deliver this huge package of electronics
