#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 14 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:23 AM roycroft: my riser blocks just finished printing, and they do not fit
12:39 AM roycroft: so i have to make a minor adjustment and print them again
12:39 AM roycroft: the bane of 3d printing is that it takes so bloody long
12:39 AM roycroft: and if you screw up it takes twice too bloody long
12:45 AM roycroft: i hate the ice recruitment ads more than anything
12:46 AM roycroft: another reason to build that media center with the youtube ad blocker :)
02:05 AM Deejay: moin
02:38 AM lcnc-relay: <Jacob@> fluffyalpaca@: Beginner question, but what is the advantage of using external drives vs steppers with built in drives?
02:46 AM jpa-: historically, more choice among motors and less weight at the motors
02:46 AM jpa-: but integrated steppers have evolved a lot, and especially the closed loop ones are superior to a separate open loop stepper driver
02:51 AM lcnc-relay: <Jacob@> Good to know, I can see smaller motor being valuable. Gecko’s website is very convincing with respect to step smoothness and torque.
02:51 AM lcnc-relay: Is there a significant difference between high end drivers & cheaper ones?
02:58 AM jpa-: cheap ones are usually somewhat lower voltage, which limits the maximum speed and acceleration
02:59 AM jpa-: but my personal opinion is that gecko drives are an overkill for most applications where open-loop steppers make sense anymore.. it's silly to push out tens of watts as waste heat when you can get better performance with a closed-loop stepper or bldc
02:59 AM jpa-: and small machines like 3D printers and desktop CNC, the cheaper single-chip stepper drivers work fine
03:27 AM lcnc-relay: <Lucid Nonsense@> Jacob@: Have you look at ac servos from stepperonline ?
03:28 AM lcnc-relay: <Lucid Nonsense@> Looked
03:53 AM lcnc-relay: <Jacob@> I’ve got cheap closed loop steppers from Amazon, mostly because it seemed convenient to have the built in driver & encoder
03:53 AM lcnc-relay: <Jacob@> https://jauriarts.org/_heisenbridge/media/jauriarts.org/XVfweygLyNWRjxgratVsuxvL/ycrk0rNL_Hg/IMG_2172.png
04:18 AM Tom_L: morning
04:28 AM jpa-: Jacob@: it seems like those don't have alert/error line for feedback to linuxcnc; that's somewhat annoying in that if one axis stalls, usually you'd want to stop the other axes too
05:14 AM mrec_: stepperonline is just buying their motors from various vendors and adding quite some margin
06:47 AM rdtsc-w: toor
07:05 AM rdtsc-w: So checking out the Arduino Nano / R4 / ESP32 and must say, pretty capable devices at 16, 48, and 240MHz; about the size of a pinky finger.
07:30 AM JT-Cave: one of the experts thinks a previous bearing change they got the outer race cocked a bit in the bore so the bearing housing might still be good to use
10:25 AM roycroft: it's not supposed to start raining until later this morning, so i arranged to take the whole day off, and i'm going to go see if the morning bus to eugene shows up on schedule or not
10:25 AM * roycroft would rather stand outside in the not rain than stand outside in the rain
11:50 AM lcnc-relay: <Lesliet@> rain
11:50 AM lcnc-relay: <Lesliet@> active low seems like it fits with rain
12:36 PM JT-Mobile: Yo
12:56 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> The uirobot nema34 6nm integrated steppers are 3x the price of the stepper online with separate drives
12:56 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> https://www.amazon.com/UIROBOT-Integrated-Multi-Turn-Controller-UIM8696CAB/dp/B0DK4W9FTY?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
12:57 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> With brakes
12:58 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@>...
12:59 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> JFC sorry about the size of that link
12:59 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> CaptainHindsight@: you can delete everything in the link after the .html
01:00 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> for future reference
01:01 PM lcnc-relay: <Lucid Nonsense@> The rest is identifying the names of your unborn grandchildren and the exact moment the person who made your breakfast cereal sneezed
01:03 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> Yeah
01:03 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> The problem is using a phone
01:04 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptainHindsight@> You can't see the whole f-ing link
01:29 PM rdtsc-w: think I see my blood type in there
01:48 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
02:07 PM robert1: for the record that link did not contain .html
02:07 PM robert1 is now known as rmu
02:07 PM JT-Mobile: Delete anything after the?
02:08 PM rmu: firefox even has a "copy clean link" feature that gets rid of all the ?& stuff
02:09 PM JT-Mobile: That never worked for me
02:10 PM rmu: hmm. not every link can be shortened to the "base"
02:49 PM Unterhausen: when I shorten links, I try them out before sending them to someone else
04:25 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, i like the rpi5 case
04:25 PM Tom_L: you have access to the ssd from the bottom thru an exta opening
04:41 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:44 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by copper.libera.chat
04:51 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/Rpi5/pics/nvme_case/
05:14 PM justache- is now known as justache
05:15 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> Ok! Neat
05:25 PM Tom_L: nice metal case. i think that's the one to get if you're using nvme and want to use it on a cnc
05:27 PM roycroft: i am back with my pickup, which is running great
05:27 PM xxcoder: nice
05:27 PM roycroft: the shop said the real main seal was leaking a bit, and it was good that i asked them to replace it
05:28 PM xxcoder: that'd cost all th labor again if not
05:28 PM roycroft: they also said that the transmission in my rig is well matched to the vehicle, but the stock torque convertor is crap
05:28 PM roycroft: so they installed a heavy duty one instead
05:29 PM roycroft: that was $950 for parts, and the stock one is $650
05:29 PM roycroft: it was kind of a no-brainer to me to get the heavy duty one
05:32 PM roycroft: they also said that the transmission hub was damaged and some teeth were ground off the flex plate
05:33 PM roycroft: and they were not sure how/why that would happen
05:33 PM roycroft: but the really good news is that when i bought the vehicle, about 10,000 miles ago, i was told (and carfax confirmed) that it had a transmission rebuild 25,000 miles prior
05:34 PM roycroft: the shop told me the clutches looked almost brand new, and consistent with being replaced during that previous rebuild
05:37 PM JT-Shop: odd that the transmission leaked after only 25k miles
05:37 PM roycroft: 35k
05:37 PM roycroft: add the 10k i drove it
05:38 PM roycroft: but yeah
05:38 PM xxcoder: the previous seems to be undersized from what I understand, and I guess it leaked after a while
05:38 PM roycroft: the only speculation that they would make is that when it was rebuilt it wasn't reinstalled properly, hence the hub damage
05:38 PM roycroft: but the torque converter was toast, and they had to rebuild the pump
05:39 PM JT-Shop: I've seen that while rebuilding the C3 lots of Bubba work
05:39 PM roycroft: possibly the previous rebuild only did the gear train part, and not the front part
05:39 PM roycroft: this probably wasn't bubba work
05:39 PM roycroft: since the rebuild had been reported to carfax
05:39 PM roycroft: that's usually a pretty mainstream shop that reports all their repairs to carrax
05:40 PM roycroft: carfax
05:40 PM xxcoder: so far your truck only "bubba work" was that weird wiring stuff
05:40 PM JT-Shop: you would think if they rebuilt any part of the transmission they would change both front and rear seals
05:40 PM xxcoder: am I right?
05:40 PM roycroft: yes, xxcoder, from what i can tell
05:40 PM roycroft: one would think
05:40 PM roycroft: but who knows
05:41 PM roycroft: a previous owner could have gotten a quote and balked at the cost
05:41 PM roycroft: and told the shop to cut corners as much as possible
05:41 PM roycroft: i don't know why, but people will spend $4000 on a repair but refuse to spring for the $200 worth of seals to do it right
05:42 PM roycroft: so i drove it home, and i had no load
05:42 PM JT-Shop: the left rear axle nut was not tight on the C3 and the speck is 100 ft lbs after disassemble the spacer shim was not in there so they treated like a trailer axle
05:42 PM roycroft: it felt weird driving it without a load
05:42 PM roycroft: so i ended up stopping at jerry's and buying a new, heavy-duty extension ladder
05:43 PM roycroft: my only extension ladder is a little too short and it's only class ii
05:43 PM roycroft: and i don't like using it because it flexes so much when i climb up it
05:43 PM * JT-Shop doesn't use extension ladders anymore
05:43 PM roycroft: i don't do so often
05:43 PM roycroft: but sometimes i still need to
05:43 PM roycroft: this one is class ia
05:44 PM roycroft: and i'm going to get a stabilizer bar for it
05:44 PM roycroft: the problem is that jerry's have three different types of stabilizers, and i did not have time while standing in the store to figure out the differences between them
05:44 PM JT-Shop: I had a heavy duty 24' but got rid of it and now I only use my scaffolding
05:44 PM roycroft: so i passed for now
05:44 PM roycroft: i can put a stabilizer in my car
05:45 PM roycroft: but i cannot put a 20' extension ladder in my car
05:45 PM roycroft: at least not without some significant mcguyvering
05:45 PM roycroft: my gutters really need to be cleaned
05:45 PM roycroft: and the oak leaves are falling rapidly
05:46 PM JT-Shop: I put a 10' ladder in my uplander with the help of a person in the parking lot
05:46 PM roycroft: that's what got me thinking about getting a better extension ladder
05:47 PM roycroft: plus, i have that roof rebuild to do, and while i'm going to build a scaffold in place for the job, i still need an extension ladder for it
05:47 PM roycroft: i'm kind of resigned, btw, to not getting the roof done until spring now
05:47 PM roycroft: but if that is how it turns out to be, that's fine
05:48 PM roycroft: i can do the joinery work over the winter, without stressing about time
05:48 PM JT-Shop: I know how that goes
05:48 PM JT-Shop: mrs said do you think we can drive the C3 in the spring?
05:48 PM roycroft: and i can go over the design some more, to make sure everythign is right
05:48 PM roycroft: load calcs can be kind of weird
05:49 PM roycroft: and most of the engineering resources for load calculations are geared towards conventional framing methods
05:49 PM JT-Shop: I was hoping to drive the C3 this fall but it just didn't work out
05:49 PM roycroft: patience is virtue :)
05:49 PM roycroft: i'd rather do this job right than do it fast
05:50 PM roycroft: and i'd rather do it safely than do it fast
05:50 PM JT-Shop: I'm not rushing the rebuild, I prefer to do a proper job on anything I do
05:51 PM roycroft: right
05:51 PM roycroft: do it once vs do it fast
05:51 PM JT-Shop: I have more firewood to cut and split to fill my storage
05:51 PM JT-Shop: yup do it right the first time is much faster than doing it wrong
05:51 PM roycroft: i really want to get the shop organized and to have the additional storage
05:52 PM roycroft: but i do not want to stress over doing a tear-off and exposing the entire shop to the weather during the rainy season
05:52 PM roycroft: as well, the shingles won't seal properly this time of year, because it's not hot enough
05:52 PM roycroft: if i shingled in december, there's a very good chance a wind storm would rip some of the shingles off before they can seal to each other
05:53 PM JT-Shop: that would suck
05:53 PM roycroft: and i don't want to be up on the roof with a blow torch trying to get the adhesive hot enough to stick but not scorching the shingles
05:54 PM roycroft: even if i do end up doing that job this winter, i'll probably end up sheathing it and then covering it with a tarp until spring before shingling
05:55 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
05:56 PM roycroft: btw, the other cool thing about the transmission shop is that they did not try to tack on a 3% or so cc processing fee, which a lot of shops do (and, in violation of federal law, don't tell you until they run the card, or don't tell you at all)
05:56 PM roycroft: so i used a card with 2% cash back rewards
05:57 PM roycroft: which may not seem like a big deal, but it's over $50 for this job
05:58 PM roycroft: so many of my friends say they don't believe in credit cards because they cost you so much money
05:58 PM roycroft: i always tell them that if it costs them anything at all they're not using them right
06:12 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> lol - I took the ford tractor to see how bad the bailer was to get out of the woods. i thought - Huh - I wonder the last time I put fuel in it... Got off the tractor to look at the bailer (the tires are atleast 1/3 in the ground...) and it starts missing and I run over to shut it off and it dies.
06:13 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> so - I should have checked it before I left. put 5 gallons of fuel in it and a little ether - and it started.
06:14 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> It took a few tried. I thought I was going to have to bleed the injectors - but it fired off.
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> I guess it is common to just replace the torque converter when doing transmission work..
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> I did not know that.
06:21 PM Tom_L: made an image of the first nvme while i was putting the case together
06:22 PM Tom_L: booted right up
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> nice - the case is tin?
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> I have one on order
06:22 PM Tom_L: yes
06:22 PM Tom_L: steel or such
06:22 PM Tom_L: i'm happy with it
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> (the first case I bought for the rpi4 was tin/steel
06:23 PM Tom_L: i got the extra freenove nvme board just for the ssd really
06:23 PM Tom_L: but i'll have an extra for 'just in case'
06:24 PM Tom_L: they also give you 2 ribbon cables
06:24 PM Tom_L: which i thought was nice of them
06:24 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> neat.
06:24 PM Tom_L: the connector lock on this board is a flip style, not slide in/out
06:24 PM Tom_L: fwiw
06:25 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> that should be easier.
06:25 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> usually
06:25 PM Tom_L: yeah i was trying to pull it open though
06:27 PM roycroft: they could not tell if my torque converter had been replaced when the previous rebuild was done
06:28 PM roycroft: but at 350k miles, if you're doing a transmission rebuild i think you replace the torque converter as part of the job
06:29 PM roycroft: especially on a transmission where the torque converter is the weak link
06:30 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, plus you get another fan
06:38 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> can never have too many... 😉
06:52 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I have just offically mounted the 4 ve7it brushed servo drivers into the new box
06:52 PM _unreal_: My panel PC's should be showing up in the next few days.
06:53 PM Tom_L: i7?
06:53 PM _unreal_: When they do ve7it my goal is to just start solving WTF is going on with the drivers.
06:53 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, yarp
06:53 PM Tom_L: i hope the latency is good on those
06:54 PM _unreal_: the exact same one's I got from the source are like $4k each from USA distributers
06:54 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, we will see and I'm not worrie
06:54 PM _unreal_: worried
06:56 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, whats new
06:57 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I had a good laugh today. I had to pay the import terrif. came to $446
06:57 PM _unreal_: still WAY cheaper then buying the same computers locally
06:58 PM _unreal_: and if we get the $2000 terrif checks, looks like I barely make it for the income cut off to qualify I get my money back :)
06:59 PM roycroft: you're never going to see those checks
06:59 PM _unreal_: one can hope
06:59 PM roycroft: or the doge checks
06:59 PM roycroft: or the insurance checks
06:59 PM _unreal_: doge checks I doubt
06:59 PM roycroft: it's all a bunch of bloviating
06:59 PM _unreal_: terrif, there is a chance
07:00 PM _unreal_: the doge checks roycroft I could not agree with you more
07:00 PM roycroft: what's going to happen is the supreme court will rule the tariffs are unconstitutional, and order them refunded
07:00 PM roycroft: and all the manufacturers and importers and logistics companies that paid them will get some money back
07:01 PM roycroft: and consumers will get nothing
07:01 PM roycroft: because consumers did not directly pay the tariffs
07:01 PM Tom_L: let's not start down this rabbit hole. been doing rather well..
07:01 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, cracking the whip :)
07:01 PM roycroft: i'm just pointing out what is going to happen, but i'll stop now :)
07:02 PM roycroft: i agree it can become a big, deep rabbit hole quickly
07:02 PM roycroft: and my intent is not to dig that hole
07:02 PM Tom_L: i'd rather hear about your truck or something remotely more relevant
07:03 PM _unreal_: LOL roycroft then put down the shovel
07:03 PM roycroft: i just started reprinting the honeycomb supports for the laser cutter/engraver
07:04 PM roycroft: i'm not the one who made the delusional statement that began this :)
07:04 PM Tom_L: i bet those wear out quick
07:04 PM Tom_L: i know
07:04 PM roycroft: they shouldn't
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> hmm - you can print them?
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> we use metal ones at work
07:04 PM _unreal_: what kind of honey come support?
07:04 PM roycroft: the laser will never get near them
07:04 PM roycroft: i don't see why i can't print them
07:05 PM roycroft: i used wooden blocks earlier
07:05 PM roycroft: for the my laser cutter/engraver, _unreal_
07:05 PM roycroft: the honeycomb bed that sits below the part
07:05 PM roycroft: it helps keep the back of the part from charring
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> lol - we had honey comb - (both paper and metal) direclty under the plastic part we were lasering
07:05 PM roycroft: the honeycomb itself is metal
07:05 PM roycroft: it's held in a metal frame
07:06 PM roycroft: i just need to lift the frame off the bed
07:06 PM _unreal_: oh also got to look at some of the parts I purchased.... 11 months ago finally for my laser. turns out the 40 Watt laser I purchased is only a 30 watt.. F....ing beeps... oh well at least it has manual focus which is what I really wanted in a higher end laser
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> so you are making a honey comb for under the honey comb..
07:06 PM roycroft: i put some extension legs on the machine frame, and the laser head does not go down far enough to focus now
07:06 PM roycroft: wich i knew
07:06 PM _unreal_: so its the under under honey come
07:06 PM _unreal_: comb
07:06 PM roycroft: but the problem with honeycombs is that they generally sit on top of a metal plate
07:06 PM roycroft: and don't have good enough air flow
07:07 PM roycroft: so i'm lifting the honeycomb 20mm above the metal plate
07:07 PM roycroft: to enhance air circulation and to get it high enough so my laser can focus on thin parts
07:07 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I did a front to back air flow design with mine
07:07 PM _unreal_: though I cant run the fans at full power because they vibrate to much
07:07 PM roycroft: when i build the proper enclosure for mine it's going to have a chamber below the main enclosure to hold the rotary axis
07:07 PM _unreal_: like 12v 4amps each 120mm pc style fans
07:08 PM roycroft: i'm going to pull air from the top through that chamber to exhaust it
07:08 PM _unreal_: roycroft, maybe take some inspiration from my design? https://photos.app.goo.gl/1ejmwQjHGskbBvob9
07:08 PM roycroft: but for now i'm using the velcro enclosure that xtool sell
07:09 PM _unreal_: better then nothing
07:09 PM _unreal_: and the xtool simple shell is along the lines of what mine is
07:10 PM roycroft: i got mine for $40 from the amazon warehouse
07:10 PM roycroft: which is the whole reason i got it
07:10 PM roycroft: cheap fix that will get me by until i build a proper enclosure
07:11 PM _unreal_: roycroft, mine by design the entire bottom is open
07:11 PM _unreal_: I can remove mine from the main frame but never have a reason to
07:12 PM _unreal_: the primary reason for the design is to give a very portable setup while keeping it semi simple
07:12 PM roycroft: when i build the enclosure cabinet, the frame will be mounted to the sides of the cabinet, and there will be slots on the front and both sides that will be almost full width
07:12 PM _unreal_: but has the features of an advanced enclure
07:12 PM roycroft: so i can do pass through stuff if/when necessary
07:12 PM _unreal_: enclosure
07:13 PM roycroft: and as i said, there will be a lower chamber for the rotary table
07:13 PM roycroft: it will sit on a lab jack, which will be able to be operated from the front of the cabinet
07:13 PM _unreal_: I REALLLLLLLLLY need to update the controller
07:13 PM _unreal_: what controller are you driving the laser with. grbl or lcnc
07:14 PM _unreal_: assuming grbl
07:14 PM roycroft: when i need the rotary table i'll pull the honeycomb out, jack up the rotary axis, and do what i need to do
07:14 PM roycroft: yes, i'm using the controller that came with it, but i hate xtool studio, so i'm using lightburn
07:14 PM roycroft: when i build a co2 laser i'll probably control it with linuxcnc
07:14 PM roycroft: but that's well down the road
07:14 PM _unreal_: roycroft, check out lasergrbl
07:15 PM _unreal_: its free but very light weight, I own lightburn
07:15 PM roycroft: lightburn is fine for me, for now
07:15 PM _unreal_: I own it I use it all the time
07:16 PM _unreal_: I'm just saying I find that I prefer lasergrbl when burning
07:16 PM roycroft: i like that it runs on macos and linux
07:16 PM roycroft: i can import stuff and set it up on my imac
07:16 PM roycroft: i have a linux laptop in the studio
07:16 PM roycroft: i can use that to run the job
07:17 PM roycroft: no windows dependency anywhere
07:17 PM roycroft: i'll make a note to check out lasergrbl when i get bored
07:18 PM roycroft: i'm at the point (having hardly used the laser to date) that i'm making some templates so i can easily index parts repeatably
07:18 PM roycroft: but i decided i needed to get the enclosure/honeycomb stuff done first
07:18 PM roycroft: i'm using a templating system from a guy who calls his channel "clack shack"
07:19 PM roycroft: i don't like his stuff very much in general, but his template system for the xtool d1 is pretty nice
07:19 PM roycroft: the indexing part fits around the two rear legs of the xtool d1, and very tightly, so it can be removed and reinstalled very repeatably
07:20 PM roycroft: it has keys that the other templates fit into, so they can be swapped in and out repeatably
07:20 PM roycroft: once i have the honeycomb mounted they way i need i'll work on kerf compensation so the keys fit really tight
07:20 PM roycroft: and then i'll have a nice templating system
07:21 PM roycroft: that is the one thing about laser cutters/engravers that always bugged me - they're hard to index repeatably
07:21 PM roycroft: but this guy's system should make it pretty easy
07:22 PM roycroft: time will tell - i paid all of $5 for his stl files, so if it doesn't work out it's no big loss
07:23 PM roycroft: wow
07:23 PM _unreal_: roycroft, one of the best things I did which I just relaized I have not taken a picture of. is I have a base table that I put my laser on. and it has a FULL grid with measurements in metric.
07:23 PM roycroft: sunshine and 18 degrees tomorrow
07:23 PM roycroft: one would think it's nearer summer than winter
07:23 PM _unreal_: makes it VERY easy in lightburn to just locate a thing to etch. and only put it on the grid work table under the laser
07:23 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that would help me, with the indexing system i'm making
07:24 PM roycroft: although it might be good to make a template that is just a grid
07:24 PM roycroft: for one-off stuff
07:24 PM _unreal_: Its for etching
07:24 PM _unreal_: not cutting
07:24 PM roycroft: sure
07:24 PM _unreal_: anything cutting its useless
07:24 PM _unreal_: just get damaged
07:24 PM roycroft: yup
07:24 PM _unreal_: but for etching its fucking amazing
07:24 PM _unreal_: I'll show you a photo later
07:25 PM _unreal_: when I take one
07:25 PM roycroft: it's going to take about 3-1/2 hours to print these risers
07:25 PM _unreal_: as I said thanks to you roycroft I just realized I never took and posted a picture of the newest feature I have on my laser
07:25 PM roycroft: i anticipate that in 3-1/2 hours i'll be well settled into the recliner and not motivated to go set up the honeycomb and start doing the kerf compensation tests
07:26 PM * roycroft is going to start making pizza soon
07:26 PM _unreal_: dont get tooo coumfyy
07:26 PM _unreal_: did that the other day
07:26 PM _unreal_: homemade
07:26 PM roycroft: post pizza i get fairly unmotivated :)
07:26 PM roycroft: i buy the dough from a local bakery
07:26 PM roycroft: it's really good - whole grain, sourdough, with rosemary
07:26 PM _unreal_: speaking of I'm prob going to do a dough making session with my daughter
07:27 PM roycroft: right now i'm not up to maintaining a sourdough culture
07:27 PM _unreal_: dont need to colture
07:27 PM xxcoder: ugh late to cooking
07:27 PM xxcoder: still nundecided
07:27 PM roycroft: and i don't think it's cheating too much to buy the dough from a bakery
07:27 PM xxcoder: meh. you do lot more than I do
07:27 PM _unreal_: well that explains the stomach noises I thought I was hearing
07:27 PM roycroft: if you want sourdough you need either to mantain a culture or let your dough sit out for a day before baking it
07:28 PM xxcoder: I have soylent for breakfast everyday. much healthier than what I used to eat
07:28 PM roycroft: once i finally finish moving in and once i get some of the remodeling done on the house and once i get my shop in order and once my day job finally ends i'll have more time to invest in cooking
07:28 PM _unreal_: roycroft, what I was saying is I like to have a dough making day with my daughter. and get everything setup then use the Pro-kitchen aid mixer with the dough hook and make a bunch of batches
07:29 PM _unreal_: let them sit a bit with yeast. then freeze everything
07:29 PM roycroft: yeah, i used to do that
07:29 PM _unreal_: have but to let them thaw and rise
07:29 PM roycroft: i would make enough dough for four pizzas
07:29 PM roycroft: then freeze three of the dough balls
07:29 PM _unreal_: ya we typically make like 20
07:29 PM roycroft: and my kitchen aid mixer is at the new house
07:29 PM _unreal_: toss em in the reach in
07:30 PM roycroft: but the kitchen is not set up well for doing anything extensive yet
07:30 PM roycroft: it's going to take a couple years to get back into the normal routine of things
07:30 PM roycroft: i don't even have a veggie garden yet - just an herb garden
07:30 PM _unreal_: I always knew you where spicy
07:31 PM roycroft: i am!
07:31 PM _unreal_: heh
07:31 PM roycroft: not speecy spicy, though
07:31 PM roycroft: just spicy
07:31 PM xxcoder: flip it, fast meal it is. simple food
07:31 PM _unreal_: microwave is NOT a meal
07:31 PM * roycroft thinks it's time to pull the dough out of the fridge and start preheating the oven
07:32 PM roycroft: if you've frozen a meal, then microwave is a meal
07:32 PM _unreal_: roy when I get my van back
07:32 PM roycroft: but i don't usually just pull something frozen out
07:32 PM _unreal_: I'm going to be looking at figuring out how I want to change my kitchen setup
07:32 PM roycroft: i'll freeze a lasagne, in meal-size portions
07:32 PM _unreal_: I have an electric range top.
07:32 PM roycroft: pull one out, microwave it, and have it with a salad and some garlic bread
07:32 PM roycroft: stuff like that
07:33 PM _unreal_: and I just got a meil oven
07:33 PM roycroft: microwaving store-bought prepared meals is shite
07:33 PM _unreal_: miele oven
07:33 PM roycroft: microwaving homemade food that you froze is delicious
07:34 PM * roycroft is pondering getting a convection oven when he does the kitchen remodel
07:35 PM roycroft: a proper, commercial kitchen one
07:35 PM _unreal_: I got a meile h6280bp
07:35 PM roycroft: but right now i don't even have a silverware drawer, so priorities :)
07:35 PM xxcoder: burritos
07:36 PM _unreal_: plastic ware
07:36 PM _unreal_: though not the greatest for cutting stake
07:36 PM roycroft: that looks like a decent oven
07:36 PM _unreal_: its not bad.
07:36 PM xxcoder: I want to buy bigger airdryer sometime
07:37 PM roycroft: i haven't entertained as much as i used to since the pandemic
07:37 PM roycroft: and now that i live an hour away from my friends i'll probably entertain even less
07:37 PM roycroft: so i don't need a super big kitchen buildup
07:37 PM _unreal_: I have an expresso machine I want to setup as well
07:37 PM roycroft: i've had a single group espresso machine for about 15 years
07:37 PM roycroft: i make a cappuccino every morning
07:38 PM roycroft: it's a stand-alone machine - with a water tank, instead of plumbed in
07:38 PM roycroft: but it works great, and i can make as good an espresso drink as any restaurant model
07:38 PM roycroft: i spent more money on the coffee grinder than on the espresso machine
07:39 PM roycroft: because the grinder is the key to it all
07:39 PM roycroft: i have a rancilio rocky, which is a small commercial grade grinder, without the doser
07:40 PM roycroft: since i almost never make more than one espresso drink at a go, i have no need for a doser
07:40 PM roycroft: a doser would actually be counterproductive for me, because my coffee would always be stale
07:41 PM _unreal_: so I have a miele cva 620 expresso machine
07:41 PM _unreal_: I can take a pic if ya need
07:42 PM roycroft: mine has a traditional group head, which i like
07:42 PM roycroft: that miele has a proprietary one
07:43 PM _unreal_: yep
07:43 PM roycroft: but it appears to be a decent machine
07:43 PM _unreal_: not currently setup sadly :(
07:43 PM roycroft: it's bigger than mine, and probably can be more production-oriented
07:44 PM roycroft: but i make one cappuccino in the morning when i wake up
07:44 PM roycroft: and that's usually it
07:44 PM _unreal_: I'm thinking about removing the non working dish washer. and building an articulating arm that swings it from under the counter in the old dishwasher location to on top with elctro pnumacits
07:44 PM roycroft: i've had company and made 2 or 3 at a go, and that still works out well
07:44 PM roycroft: it h
07:45 PM roycroft: as a single boiler, so i have to pull the shot first, then let it heat up to make steam, and then froth the milk
07:45 PM roycroft: so if i'm making more than one, there's kind of a cycle time, as after the first one i have to let it cool down before i can pull the second shot
07:45 PM roycroft: but it is compact, works very well, and suits my needs perfectly
07:45 PM _unreal_: ya there is no cycle type with mine. being a 220v
07:45 PM roycroft: voltage is not the issue
07:46 PM roycroft: it's single boiler vs. two boilers
07:46 PM roycroft: most commercial espresso machines have separate boilers for the shot and the steam
07:47 PM roycroft: it only takes about 45 seconds to heat it up to steam temperature after i pull the shot
07:47 PM roycroft: but it takes about 3 minutes to cool back down if i want to do a second round
07:48 PM _unreal_: ya... no waiting on mine
08:46 PM roycroft: matt estlea triggered a sawstop, on purpose
08:46 PM roycroft: i'm not even going to watch that video
08:47 PM xxcoder: yeech
08:47 PM roycroft: and i've lost most of what respect i had for him as a woodworker
08:47 PM roycroft: i've been losing respect for him over the past few years anyway
08:47 PM xxcoder: is it to test it? did he do stupid thing the safest way possible?
08:48 PM roycroft: i think he's actually from or, because he's acting younger and more childish all the time
08:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks@> never came across him
08:48 PM roycroft: i saw him starting to stick his finger into the sawblade, and stopped watching then
08:48 PM roycroft: he's a very good woodworker
08:49 PM roycroft: but he's also 8 going on 6
08:49 PM roycroft: i bought his workbench plans, and used them as a basis when i designed mine
08:50 PM xxcoder: yeech. I would have used hotdog as test
08:50 PM roycroft: i also bought a marking knife from him that has a bog oak handle and bronze ferrule
08:50 PM roycroft: and replaceable blades
08:50 PM roycroft: that's what everyone does
08:50 PM roycroft: which is probably why matt decided to stick his finger in it
08:50 PM roycroft: sawstop sponsors him
08:50 PM roycroft: or at least, they did
08:50 PM roycroft: that may no longer be the case after that stunt
08:51 PM roycroft: i believe the saw is very safe
08:51 PM xxcoder: I would trust it to work when I need to, and work hard to ensure it dont do its job anytime soon
08:52 PM roycroft: but it's just like holding a loaded gun to your head, saying "i believe the safety works fine", and pulling the trigger
08:52 PM Tom_L: wonder how sawstop tests it
08:52 PM xxcoder: hotdogs likely
08:53 PM Tom_L: it has to be tested
08:55 PM roycroft: they test it with hot dogs
08:55 PM roycroft: if the capacitance of a hot dog is similar to the capacitance of a human finger there's no need to test with a human finger
08:57 PM Tom_L: i suppose it ruins the blade if triggered
08:58 PM xxcoder: I saw one of those hotdog tests. blade plows into alum strip
08:58 PM xxcoder: it gets embedded hard, but dont know if damaged
08:59 PM Tom_L: skunkworks :) i got one coming for the 2nd rpi5
08:59 PM roycroft: most of the time
08:59 PM roycroft: sometimes the blade can be repaired
08:59 PM roycroft: but the brake cartridge is expensive, and single use
08:59 PM xxcoder: pretty sure the alum brake is also single use
09:00 PM roycroft: that's not my concern, though - people spend money on their videos all the time
09:00 PM roycroft: it's the utter stupidity of what he did
09:00 PM xxcoder: I rather use that than try to how do asl fingerspell with 3 fingers on one hand
09:00 PM roycroft: it's a horrible example to make
09:00 PM roycroft: if you're putting how-to videos out there you have a responsibility to do things safely
09:00 PM roycroft: you never know what idiot is going to watch your video and not understand it
09:02 PM sinned6915863 is now known as sinned691586
09:04 PM fluffywolf: unfortunately, sawstop is fairly evil as a company, in that they sue everyone who tries to introduce a similar product, thus preventing their widespread use and causing far more injuries...
09:05 PM roycroft: they are owned by festool now
09:06 PM roycroft: but they actually only go after patent violaters
09:06 PM roycroft: makita introduced a saw using different technology that has a braking system but it did not sell well
09:08 PM roycroft: the real problem is that other saw manufacturers did not want increase their manufacturing cost a little bit to add that safety feature
09:08 PM * fluffywolf would design it with automotive brake pads, big springs, a motor to compress the springs, and a solenoid that needs continuous power to hold a latch on
09:12 PM fluffywolf: xxcoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL55QeyB4ec mildly interesting
09:12 PM xxcoder: saw that. was ineresting
09:12 PM roycroft: you need to stop it from moving at 120+mph to 0 in a couple milliseconds
09:13 PM roycroft: and you have a 5hp motor trying to keep it going
09:13 PM roycroft: single phase, so you're not going to be able to stop the motor instantly
09:14 PM fluffywolf: a friction clutch on the belt is trivial. my old radial arm saw has one, even. lol
09:14 PM xxcoder: I wonder if could make tablesaw mini 3 phase so it can stop instantly
09:15 PM roycroft: and it does a dead stop in a couple ms?
09:15 PM xxcoder: not fast enough still wolf
09:15 PM fluffywolf: the blade does, if you do something stupid. the motor keeps turning.
09:15 PM * roycroft would not want to test that
09:15 PM roycroft: maybe with a hot dog :)
09:16 PM fluffywolf: it has an adjustable clutch you crank down to where it doesn't slip during use, but if you jam the blade, the motor and gears can smoothly decelerate.
09:16 PM roycroft: your finger will not jam the blade
09:16 PM fluffywolf: I had to adjust it once when it started slipping on me.
09:16 PM xxcoder: eh human flesh is little bit too soft
09:16 PM roycroft: it's easier to cut your finger than a piece of balsa wood
09:16 PM xxcoder: softer than wood
09:16 PM fluffywolf: no, the big brake pads and springs will jam the blade.
09:17 PM fluffywolf: my point is "and you have a 5hp motor trying to keep it going" is irrelevant. a clutch is a trivial, already-existing-in-similar-tools solution.
09:17 PM * roycroft is dubious
09:17 PM xxcoder: yeah I'd test it with bunch of hotdogs first
09:17 PM xxcoder: if it dont work on them I will assume it doesnt for my hand
09:17 PM roycroft: ok, i'll concede that near instant stoppage of energy transmission from the motor to the arbor is not terribly difficult
09:18 PM roycroft: but that still leaves stopping the blade itself
09:18 PM fluffywolf: also, there is a tradeoff between amount of injury and cost of a false trip that many people might opt to be at a different point than sawstop made.
09:18 PM roycroft: i think sawstop got that part right
09:19 PM roycroft: the saw should never draw a drop of blood
09:19 PM roycroft: that is the correct place to be :)
09:19 PM fluffywolf: people don't want it because every trip costs a $100 cartridge and a $100 (plus or minus, depending on what you're doing) blade. $0 per false trip, but you might need a bandaid, might be a vastly more popular option.
09:19 PM roycroft: most people's frustration is when they forget to turn the safety stop feature off when they're cutting metal
09:19 PM roycroft: or when they think they're cutting wood but hit a nail
09:20 PM fluffywolf: or when their wood is damp, from what I've heard.
09:20 PM xxcoder: I wouldnt treat tablesaw with protection any differently as tablesaw without it
09:20 PM roycroft: yes
09:20 PM roycroft: although there is a feature on the saw to test it before turning it on
09:20 PM fluffywolf: bring a piece in that was outside in the rain, go to cut it... wham, there's $200 out the window.
09:20 PM xxcoder: because frankly like I said I dont wanna use 3 finger fingerspelling
09:20 PM roycroft: but people don't use it
09:20 PM xxcoder: many signs would be affected too
09:21 PM roycroft: you can offer your piece of wood to the blade before turning the saw on, press the test button, and the saw will tell you if it would trigger on the wood or not
09:21 PM roycroft: so any time that happens it's operator error, not any fault of the machine
09:21 PM fluffywolf: I think sawstop's brake is overly fast, and a non-destructive friction-based brake, using cheaply available automotive brake pads clamping the sides of the blade, would cause only very slightly more injury while eliminating cartridges and blade damage.
09:22 PM fluffywolf: (why cheaply available pads? because some blade designs will chew them up depending on where they clamp)
09:22 PM roycroft: i can see the advertising
09:22 PM roycroft: "save money and only bleed a little bit!"
09:23 PM fluffywolf: I saw a slow-mo sawstop demo where multiple carbide teeth flew off the blade in all directions when the brake fired... that's stopping the blade too fast. lol
09:23 PM roycroft: things like blade guards and riving knives mitigate injuries
09:23 PM roycroft: the big selling point of a sawstop is that eliminates cut injuries
09:23 PM fluffywolf: clamping the sides of the blade with friction material should bring the blade to a stop in less than a revolution...
09:24 PM roycroft: less than a revolution will amputate a finger
09:24 PM roycroft: unless it's way way less
09:25 PM roycroft: i don't have a sawstop and i don't plan on getting one
09:25 PM roycroft: if my current table saw dies in a way that i cannot repair it i'd probably get a sawstop
09:25 PM roycroft: but my table saw works just fine, and an equivalent sawstop would cost about $5k that i would rather invest in other things
09:26 PM roycroft: the power feeder that i just got i consider to be a bigger safety feature for me
09:26 PM fluffywolf: also, a lot of the safety is the blade-dropping-down-from-momentum mechanism, which pulls the blade away from the finger before the blade stops.
09:27 PM roycroft: and it was 1/20 the cost of a sawstop
09:27 PM roycroft: yes
09:27 PM xxcoder: I wonder if can do no brake method, just disconnect power and drop and pull saw out rapidly. it would spin down completly out of wat
09:27 PM xxcoder: way
09:28 PM xxcoder: it still needs mini bomb but everything else just can be reset
09:28 PM roycroft: i don't know that sawstop considered this when designing their machines
09:28 PM fluffywolf: that would be another option... a big honkin' spring pulling the blade down, held on by a solenoid latch, that instantly drops the blade if the solenoid releases.
09:28 PM xxcoder: still needs a bomb to move it faster
09:29 PM xxcoder: having spring that high tension is larger danger
09:29 PM roycroft: but i wonder if the cost of a new cartridge and possibly a new blade causes some folks who might otherwise behave somewhat recklessly to be more careful when using the saw
09:29 PM roycroft: that could be a hidden safety feature
09:29 PM fluffywolf: yes, it causes them to be more reckless by not buying a sawstop. :P
09:29 PM roycroft: i'm not talking about folks who don't care
09:29 PM roycroft: i'm talking about folks who care but don't always think things through clearly
09:30 PM fluffywolf: I think a lot more people would buy a saw that might cause a, say, 1/16" deep cut, but costs $0 when it fires.
09:31 PM xxcoder: $0 would mean resettable
09:31 PM roycroft: and i have read stories from woodworkers that essentially go "i bought a sawstop because it's a good thing, then i accidently triggered it. now i'm a lot more careful."
09:31 PM fluffywolf: it'll hurt like a sonnabitch and might need a stitch or two, but it wouldn't need surgery, and people wouldn't be scared to use the saw because of the high cost of a false trip.
09:31 PM fluffywolf: xxcoder: yes.
09:32 PM xxcoder: yeah. supposing springs, it would require proceure to carefully compress springs
09:32 PM roycroft: i have had one tablesaw incident in my life
09:32 PM xxcoder: because dang thats a lot of power
09:32 PM roycroft: it was about 45 years ago
09:32 PM roycroft: i was working in a boat factory as a shipwright at the time
09:32 PM roycroft: management were conducting a tour of senior citizens right on the factory floor
09:33 PM roycroft: i was leaning over a tablesaw making a cut when an old guy came up right behind me and leaned over
09:33 PM fluffywolf: the design in my head looks like an automotive brake caliper bracket, with springs on the back of the pads on each side. a latch holds a worm drive mechanism to the pads. the worm drive can slowly back off the pads against the thousand or so pounds of spring force, but when the latch releases, the springs slam the pads into the blade super fast.
09:33 PM roycroft: i looked at him to make sure he was out of the way and nicked the tip of a finger
09:33 PM roycroft: i do not consider that my fault
09:33 PM roycroft: and the union went ballistic when they found out the details
09:34 PM roycroft: that was the last tour that was conducted there, at least while i worked there
09:34 PM roycroft: i got a big settlement for it and did not sue them
09:36 PM roycroft: that was the only time i ever suffered even a minor injury at the table saw
09:36 PM fluffywolf: I was at an estate sale once, of a woodworker. the next door neighbor was there helping sell stuff. at one point he held up his hand, which was permanently doing the Dio horns, and said "and I did this on that table saw right there!"...
09:36 PM xxcoder: amazing ad for that tablesaw.
09:37 PM roycroft: in my situation, i probably should have had the wherewithall to step back from the saw and turn it off until the tour group left
09:37 PM roycroft: but i was young, and it was a really high pressure job
09:37 PM roycroft: that said, i still do not believe i was the one at fault
09:38 PM roycroft: and the union certainly did not, and apparently even management realized that they should never have conducted that tour
09:38 PM xxcoder: I remember the tour at machine shop I trained at. I was running cnc router, which does not have enclosure. while grouo of people was watching as I explained stuff (had interpeter), one guy removed safety glasses while looking closer
09:38 PM xxcoder: I told him to get it on ight away, always wear goggles when near cutting machine
09:38 PM roycroft: hopefully he was escorted off the premises
09:39 PM xxcoder: I guessed they was bigwigs
09:39 PM roycroft: that doesn't matter
09:39 PM roycroft: well, it does
09:39 PM fluffywolf: I let someone use my cordless angle grinder the other day. I handed them safely glasses with it. They did not use them. sigh...
09:39 PM xxcoder: yeah though was not up to me, there was tour leaders
09:39 PM roycroft: if it were just a random visitor they should have been removed from the premises
09:40 PM roycroft: if it were a bigwig i'd have hit the e-stop button and muttered something about how much it cost to ruin the job
09:40 PM roycroft: if management took issue with mashing the e-stop in that situation it's not somehere i would want to work
09:40 PM xxcoder: it was otherwise pretty fun day. was overtime saturaday which was very rare. it was easy day of work too, as I barely operated the machine
09:41 PM xxcoder: I only started machine as group passed by, so there was always machine running. there was someone at all stations, only one machine running as example.
09:43 PM xxcoder: ie one at press area, one at lathe, one at mills area, one at cnc router etc
09:43 PM xxcoder: cnc rputer one happened to be me lol
09:45 PM xxcoder: yes it including packing deburring, assembly etc